Honorable conservatives:
I am 55 and lived through LBJ, Nixon's resignation, Carter, two Clinton terms and two Obama terms. I can survive four years of Hillary. /1
— Tom Nichols (@RadioFreeTom) May 28, 2016
And if Trump gets his way, he'll prove that being rich enough, crazy enough, and offensive enough can snuff out a democratic contest. /5
— Tom Nichols (@RadioFreeTom) May 28, 2016
(Full tweet-essay here.)
Considerably less honorable “conservatives” —
Romney: I wanted my grandkids to see that I simply couldn’t ignore Trump was … unfit for leader of the free world. https://t.co/kHf1GacXRZ
— Jacob Weisberg (@jacobwe) May 28, 2016
He didn't mind when Trump painted the president as some kind of African Communist mercenary, though. https://t.co/cpuPKmpkop
— Richard M. Nixon (@dick_nixon) May 28, 2016
Just a heads up over this holiday weekend: There will be an independent candidate–an impressive one, with a strong team and a real chance.
— Bill Kristol (@BillKristol) May 29, 2016
Fresh-faced Nebraska Sen. Ben Sasse is still peddling his staunch principles, but while Ben’d be a lock for the swimsuit competition, I suspect Bill “Always Wrong” Kristol has someone else in mind. And I don’t think Willard Romney owes Butcher’s Bill any favors, so… Tom Cotton?
jeffreyw
I’m just not seeing Bill as a Cotton picker.
BGinCHI
This could finally be the year Adlai Stevenson finally breaks through.
raven
@jeffreyw: Hey man, how ya doin?
Howard Beale IV
The GOP had their chance and they are stuck with Trump. Sorry guys, you dealt it, you smelt it.
jeffreyw
@raven: Yo, Dude…
Grillin’ chicken and corn today. Hey – check the size of this bluegill!
Elie
This is a humanity test for the Republican Party: Can they actually look the other way to vote for a man clearly — undeniably unfit to be President? Are they not only so lost in their ideology, but lost in their humanity, that they cannot see what Trump actually presents? Will they be able to look back at this and hold their heads up from a moral standpoint? This is way way way past politics. This is about deep and fundamental decency and history will judge them even as they may be unable to stand for and honor not only this country and what it stands for, but their own basic humanity. The world IS watching and will know their hearts by what they do. Some of them know this to be the case….
Baud
@Elie: On the other hand, emails.
Major Major Major Major
Oh thank god Kristol said that. Or maybe a conservative third-party run would be better for us. I don’t know right now!
I put up a little bit from my second draft and a little friend/fan art for my fish story. here
Downpuppy
@Elie: They’ll fall in line
No matter how awful,no matter how many times he does something unforgivable
And ChuckTodd will make it all sound OK
Baud
@jeffreyw: Maybe the naked guy from the Libertarian convention will run.
lollipopguild
Taft? Dewey? Ike? Hoover?
Ultraviolet Thunder
Thanks Bill “Wrong” Kristol. I take that to mean that the two major party candidates will divide 100% of the vote between them. Good to know.
lollipopguild
@Downpuppy: Most of them will fall in line and many in the lamestream media will make Trump boringly normal while Clinton will be talked about like a fringe candidate.
Felanius Kootea
Okay this is totally not related to politics. I’ve mentioned a couple of times that I’m Nigerian American and moved to the US from Nigeria when I was young. There’s a kickstarter by a Nigerian-American who’s a writer on Blackish for a new sitcom that speaks to the experiences of immigrants like me (i.e., people with crazy, overachieving African parents that put a lot of unnecessary pressure on their kids). I’m a little put off by the current name (African Booty Scratcher) but the creator, Damilare Sonoiki says that it will probably change. There’s only 6 days left on the kickstarter, so if anything about the video speaks to you, kick in something to make the show a reality.
Oh, and Trump has always and will always suck. Here’s hoping that the libertarian candidates siphon moderate Republican votes away from him.
Major Major Major Major
@Ultraviolet Thunder: where’s Brinks Trucks when you need him?
jeffreyw
@Baud: He may run, but he won’t find it so easy to hide.
Schlemazel Khan
@jeffreyw:
NICE FISH! As a kid we used to catch sunnys that size all the time on a lake less than a hour outside of St. Paul. Now it is surrounded by suburban homes & a hot mess. But even in Northern MN it is rare to see a pan fish that big. Good catch!
Elie
@Baud:
Yes, but that is noise that is a distractor but doesn’t change the nature of their decision
@Downpuppy:
Well yes, our experience does argue that they will not change but I think that this is immensely unsettling for more professional Republicans than we fully know. I think for example, the former State Department and foreign service folks are aghast at Trump. Most of them have been restrained in their statements, but not all and I expect that as time goes on and the true reality of what this monster stands for becomes more undeniable, you will see more obvious movement. These are people with big egos and pride about their accomplishments – they KNOW what history will say about them if they just look the other way. Oh don’t get me wrong — I’m no Pollyanna about the Republican way of thinking or their “sense of honor”… We will see….
Villago Delenda Est
Kristol needs to share whatever the fuck it is he’s smokin’.
Villago Delenda Est
@Downpuppy: One of the many reasons why Chuckles the Toddler has a very low tumbrel manifest number.
Elie
@efgoldman:
But they will not bear the weight of history’s judgement with the selection of those more regional local legislators, etc. They vote for Trump and its a very different thing that will have long ramifications. Sure, many of them don’t want this to be a special situation — just another candidate in a national election… but not so deep down, others KNOW this is quite different and they will be held accountable.
Schlemazel Khan
It seems to me if “sane” Republicans really were serious about not voting for the Drumpfenstein monster they have been gifted a pair of GOP ex-governors running on a ticket that pretends to be in favor of smaller government. If the libtardtarians would take 10-12% away from the GOP I’d be OK with that.
JPL
@Villago Delenda Est: He might mean July 4th weekend.
Honus
“Shit for brains” always comes to mind when I read anything Kristol writes. And history has proven this reaction correct.
schrodinger's cat
Downpuppy and lollipopguild, sockpuppets?
Aimai
@Felanius Kootea: saw a marvellous play by a zimbabwean american playwright on this topic. called “familiar.” Just wonderful.
Schlemazel Khan
@Elie:
“Relax boys! Sure he says crazy things and attracts the worst elements of the worst people, but once he is in office he’ll tone it down and we can easily control him. Believe me, there is NOTHING to worry about” – Albert “funbags” Junker speaking to his drinking buddies at the Berlin businessmen’s club in 1933
Baud
@srv:
Yes.
Freaking awesomely.
Democrats are better judges of character and qualifications.
Elie
Look, I understand that these people have been used to getting away with throwing up any shit and not actually having to pay for it — certainly nothing that in their minds would have anything to do with the judgement or burden of history. For many of the local yokals who support Trump, shit, most of these fools don’t even HAVE a passport much less know of the larger world or its impact in their lives. That aint true on a national level and certainly not with those with high fallutin careers with “reputations” — an relationships with other leaders abroad particularly. But who thinks that they are going to be called on to really stand up against true tyranny? Even Christ was reported to ask God if he could pass the bitter chalice of his suffering ahead from his lips — “Can you give me a break from this fate?”. It may take a while to understand and a lot longer to accept what is being asked of you. Some may not give the right answer right away, or never as we speculate. But some may avoid or deny for a while then just realize that their is no way to avoid it …. either way — the judgement of history will be what it is and shaped by what they do here.
The Thin Black Duke
@Elie: To summarize what I said in an earlier thread, there are only two moral choices left for a “moderate” Republican to do: either vote for Hillary Clinton or stay the fuck home.
lollipopguild
@schrodinger’s cat: Why exactly am I a sockpuppet?
Elie
@Schlemazel Khan:
Believe me, I am not arguing that there aren’t folks just like that in droves now. Or that there would be universal change of heart and realization that Trump is a mistake. I am just saying that for a certain number of particularly the GOP leadership or careerists, they will have a burden that will be pretty hard to ignore. Not saying that they won’t, but that it will be harder …and maybe impossible for some of them to ignore.
ThresherK
@Downpuppy: “Gotcha”.
Sorry, I was trying to find a link to Chuckles not parrying some Trump lie about high (sic) unemployment, overregulation, immigration, or some other non-disaster of the Obama term, with the simple “Gotcha (I understand)”, letting it slide. This was maybe two weeks ago; bt I can’t find the quote. All I can Yahoogle with those words are a bunch of RW whineposts on Chuck Todd actually asking some fallen candidate a real question.
Anyone else remember this great moment in MTP?
nutella
A quote from Nichol’s tweets:
Umm, what? Who is this who is calling Trump “Daddy”? Sullivan?!
Renie
During the 80s I lived and worked in NYC and knew of Trump and his b.s. back then. To think that now he could be president of the US is horrific. What has happened to this country?
hovercraft
According to the Washington Examiner Trump does not have the funds to run any ads to counter anything run against him till after the convention when RNC funds will be available to him. Despite his claims that he is going to self fund and is only fundraising to help the party and down ballot candidates, he’s full of it. He will not be providing his campaign with anymore funds from his own pocket.
How cheap can you be ? You’re this close to the prize but unwilling to pony up.
Villago Delenda Est
@srv: Horowitz used to be a New Left asshole. Now he’s a Right Wing asshole.
Please note the constant quality of David Horowitz over the years, regardless of his nominal ideological bent.
Villago Delenda Est
@hovercraft: Yet the other day Drumpf was boasting on twitter that he had more cash available to his campaign than anyone in history up to this point.
So where does the truth lie? Given that the Washington Examiner is, after all, the Washington Examiner, it’s not easy to suss out reality.
Mike in NC
Caught a segment of Chuck Todd where he was deploring the high Trump and Clinton negative polling, but he seemed impressed by shouty old man Bernie Sanders.
The Dangerman
Raven, think there’s any reason to watch OKC/GS tonight? I expect a massive blowout so I might skip it.
If I were the Clippers, I’d hope for a firesale and trade Griffin for Durant in a sign and trade; both need new homes. Then, if the Clippers could find a serviceable 3 in the draft…
Miss Bianca
“Clinton falls on the most awful side of normal”?
Well, at least he’s more generous than some of the BernieBros I’ve read.
Punchy
@Elie: It goes like this:
Trump = SCOTUS judge who will uphold the most onerous voter ID rules and gerrymandering = GOP control of all 3 branches for the foreseeable future. Also, abortion and gay marriage reversed and outlawed.
Thats all they care about. The country? Decency? They couldnt care less.
BillinGlendaleCA
@hovercraft:
And he’ll be paid back the funds he “loaned” his campaign to date.
hovercraft
@Elie:
Remember back in 2008 when McCain first picked Palin there were a couple of huhs, but as she opened her mouth more and more, the serious foreign policy people spoke up and went for Obama.
smith
@ThresherK: Here ya go: https://balloon-juice.com/2016/05/10/late-night-horrorshow-open-thread-our-failed-mainstream-media/
Tokyokie
@Elie: As I’m fond of saying in regard to difficult moral choices, Hitler didn’t kill a single Jew, but people who wanted to be looked upon favorably by him organized the extermination of about 6 million of them. I think this dilemma is especially stark for those who love to tell the world that they’re filled with the spirit of Christ. Voting for Trump pretty much means you’re filled with something else. But as much as I loathe Willard Romney, I have a much higher opinion of him, than I do of Trump (Seriously, can anybody anywhere enumerate a single positive human virtue that he embodies?) and the lickspittles who’ll vote for him because he’s not named Clinton.
And maybe Butcher Bill thinks Harold Stassen has one more campaign left in him, even though he’s been dead 15 years.
hovercraft
@Villago Delenda Est:
True but their distortions are usually to make republicans look good.
Anne Laurie
@nutella:
Milo Yiannopoulos, aka ‘the new Ann Coulter’…
Calling Trump ‘Daddy’ offends older/staider Republicans, just as speaking in favor of Trump offends any non-Repub with an IQ higher than room temperature, so it’s a twofer!
Kropadope
@Miss Bianca: My libertarian friend is very complimentary of Hillary, says she’s his third favorite gangster. 1 and 2 are Putin and George HW Bush.
hovercraft
@BillinGlendaleCA:
That’s his mo, he always gets paid while everyone else gets screwed.
Elie
@hovercraft:
As I said, I have no illusions about the GOP today, filled with some of the stupid and vile ideologues ever, but I do think that there are members of the party who went along in the past but now are not going to be able to pull any kind of lever for Trump and who will actively choose Hillary. Maybe I am wrong but these folks had/have lives that mean something quite different than the rank and file Teahadist politician and definitely different than the shlubs down in the hinterlands…
Schlemazel Khan
@efgoldman:
Yeah, does not count unless you can row a 12′ Alumacraft out to catch them :)
Some friends have video of them off the coast of CA in a power boat cruising along a very good clip. Out of nowhere a pod of Orcas charges after them & begins leaping out of the water and darting at the boat. Apparently it was a game to them but scary to those on the boat. I would kill to be on the boat and see something like that. I have seen youtubes of folks in sea kayaks being approached by Orcas. That I would not like to experience.
ThresherK
@smith: Thank you. I knew it was perfectly Trumpian: Bumper sticker-sized (if not shorter) and 200% wrong.
Also the word “we” does a lot of work in that sentence.
Splitting Image
@nutella:
I think he’s referring to Breitbrat Milo Yiannopoulos.
ETA: Anne beat me to it.
hovercraft
@Elie:
From your lips to Dogs ear.
gene108
@Elie:
Republicans only care because Trump may hurt their “brand”. He may be the straw that brakes the MSM thinking of the as VSP and will hurt their cushy gigs.
Otherwise they do not care about how people on their side screw stuff up or how many people get hurt.
The Dangerman
@hovercraft:
Another indicator he doesn’t want to be President; he wants to get his pole polished for another 5+ months and he wants to have some sort of grievance when he loses (“it was stolen!”) but the last thing he wants is to win.
Anne Laurie
@hovercraft:
Or ‘unable to pony up’.
It is my devout hope that, if nothing else good comes of the GOP’s latest descent into idiocracy, at least Deadbeat Donald will be exposed as a “mere” millionaire, because that will hurt his feelings far more than any other true slur.
Not to mention his party. The GOP has sold itself to a no-class shouty tv clown and he’s not even actually rich!
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
Had an awesome camping weekend. Went to a WAY out of the way place (Paintsville Lake), took a primitive camping spot at the end of the tent area. It was about 100 yards of uphill walk up a decent path, but worth it (the portable hand truck and bungee cords helped).
A few observations:
1. If you go to an off-the-beaten-path park, you’re a little weird to everybody else there, who are local and come from surrounding counties.
2. Is everybody in Appalachia a smoker or dipper?
3. There seems to be A LOT of bitter clinging. I saw a lot of Jesus nonsense and heard a lot of Jesus nonsense.
4. People there would benefit from a wellness program that focuses on diet and exercise. The sedentary behavior was off the charts, with the attendant aesthetic result (exacerbated, of course, by the smoking).
5. We took a side trip to Butcher Holler, the childhood home of Loretta Lynn and Crystal Gayle, and were treated to a tour by the brother and his daughter. It was in Deliverance banjo territory. When we left, we stopped into the general store for the holler, and some old guy walking out demanded to know where we were from. These people are weird as hell.
StringOnASick
@Schlemazel Khan: Orcas are curious; they’re also something I’ve enjoyed seeing from a boat too big for them to swamp, and I’d prefer to keep it that way. I snorkeled and froliced with juvenile sea lions in the Galapagos 1.5 years ago; that was pretty trippy. On our last day at sea a huge pod of spinner dolphins went nuts playing in the bow wave and the boat wake. Trip of a lifetime for sure.
Those ocean sunfish are big Bambi’s, called Mola mola.
M. Bouffant
@srv: Morons, crertins & racist thugs?
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Mike in NC:
The Shouty Bernie Sanders/Chuck Todd connection. Chuckles is Howie Kurtz, except of the Democrats. Did you think he raised the issue of Hillary’s speeches over and over because he was practicing journalism?
Jeffro
@srv: “Trump’s considerable achievements”?!?!? How did he type that with a straight face?
M. Bouffant
@ThresherK: I think Trump claimed the U.S. has the highest tax rates in the world, to which goateed Chuckface said, “Mm-hmm” & moved right on.
Anne Laurie
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class:
And tired of being treated as a freak show for “rich” outsiders to gawk at, I’m guessing.
You get the fun of mocking them to your sophisticated little friends on the internet, he gets the fun of demanding your personal info in front of his friends. Fair’s fair!
Jeffro
@The Thin Black Duke: Would that it were so…they can also turn out, and vote a straight R ticket starting with the Senate (if applicable) on down. For President, they could write in any number of things…#NeverTrump comes to mind.
(I’m not encouraging it, mind you – I do hope they stay home.)
divF
@efgoldman:
A Game 7 of 7 is much more exciting than a Game 1 of 7, regardless of the two sports involved.
Sloegin
William “the bloody” “always wrong” Kristol is pushing… Hmm. My 2 cents is on some Silicon Valley TechBro. Travis Kalanick possibly, since Garrett Camp is a Canuk.
Jeffro
@Miss Bianca: I think PJ O’Rourke’s comment was one of the few I’ve seen that describes it best (at least when taking to RW family and friends): [paraphrasing] “HRC is wrong on everything, but she’s wrong within normal parameters. Trump is wrong OUTSIDE those parameters”. Let me be clear, I don’t agree with PJ at all on the first part, HRC is perfectly fine on 99% of the issues. But it is a way to help them understand the difference…”Uncle Bob, you obviously feel that HRC is wrong, but at least she’s ‘wrong’ within the usual bounds of our democracy and responsibilities to it.” Etc etc.
This is the trouble describing the order of magnitude of his wrongness (especially when it’s abetted by a both-sides-do-it mentality in the media and frankly most Americans in general). Trump is a whole other animal here – there’s nothing to push back against or debate with, because he has no policies (for more than 30 seconds maybe) and actually knows next to nothing. Just 110% demagoguery, backed up by 120% name recognition.
M. Bouffant
@Anne Laurie: Where I come from, asking “Where are you from?” is often a prelude to gun violence.
Cat48
@Mike in NC:
Of course he’s impressed by Sanders & is kind to him; his wife did over $1M of business with the Bernie campaign.
Elie
@efgoldman:
I am not worried about what ANY Republicans end up doing. The whole post is about how some GOP may be refusing to go along with Trump and I was just speculating about how/why that might happen. I DO care that one party of our two party system of government is now completely dysfunctional and actually a hazard to our country. Don’t you? I mean, its not like it doesn’t effect us, right?
raven
@jeffreyw: Suweeettt!
raven
@The Dangerman: It doesn’t start until 9 here so it’s DVR for me. Also, it sure seems like Curry is hurt.
hovercraft
@Anne Laurie:
That would be the ultimate humiliation for him, he prides himself on being rich, smart, and a ladies man. Between his short fingers being the subject of discussion and being exposed as not a billionaire, he might just slink off away from the limelight. Nah. But a girl can dream.
MJS
@srv: “Trump’s considerable achievements”? The bankruptcies? The lousy tv shows? The failed “university”? Steaks? Vodka?
Patricia Kayden
@Elie: Great questions. Unfortunately, the majority of Republicans will rally around a man who has zero qualifications to be President but who “tells it like it is” — even when doing so equals making things up.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/counting-donald-trumps-lies/2016/05/25/bc0d93a8-229f-11e6-aa84-42391ba52c91_story.html
debbie
@Patricia Kayden:
I think it’s more like they’re voting a big F.U. to Obama’s politically correct country. They’re not thinking about any sort of consequences.
smith
@Jeffro: I keep hoping that Trump is the political equivalent of a viral meme — the novelty will wear off long before the election, and the people soft-minded enough to have jumped on his wagon will have wandered off by then.
gogol's wife
@smith:
That’s where I was a few months ago. Unfortunately it didn’t happen.
hovercraft
@MJS:
Airline? Travel Agency? Nutritional Supplements? Real Estate? I’m sure there are more, but that’s all that comes readily to mind.
Adam L Silverman
@nutella: Its Breitbart’s Milo Yannoupolis.
As for Nichols, I don’t think we’ve ever met at a conference, and while he and I don’t agree on domestic politics, he’s the real deal as a National Security Professional:
Here’s his bio from the US Navel War College:
https://www.usnwc.edu/Academics/Faculty/Thomas-M–Nichols,-Ph-D-.aspx
Origuy
A friend of a friend is calling Republicans who support Trump “Vichy Republicans”. Help it catch on.
Why do we still have this ad that autoplays? I keep headphones plugged in at work just in case.
Roger Moore
@BillinGlendaleCA:
I wonder what interest rate his campaign agreed to pay on those loans.
Patricia Kayden
@efgoldman: But all of those slimy people you named were elected locally — not as a potential President. I agree with Elie that just having Donald Trump as your Presidential candidate is something you can never live down. Decades later, people will be clucking and shaking their heads about how low the Republican Party has fallen. I thought they couldn’t get lower than VP candidate Palin.
Adam L Silverman
@Miss Bianca: See my comment 87 for his bio. He’s very conservative, but mainstream conservative, in regards to his domestic politics. But he’s also one of the top Soviet/Russia hands still in the game.
sm*t cl*de
@srv:
Horowitz:
“My cronies and I proved to be completely wrong in our dire predictions for Obama, which makes our rosy predictions for Trump all the more reliable.”
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Downpuppy:
I so dislike Todd… What a self-satisfied tool. Is he not one of the biggest Both Sides Do It peddlers out there?
Jeffro
@smith:
Me too, but unfortunately I think for the folks for whom Trump resonates…Trump resonates, and they’re not going to be talked off of his wagon. The virus is not going anywhere with them, they’re terminal.
Fortunately, as you’re noting, folks who have rallied behind him just because he’s the GOP nominee (not his hard core supporters) will have plenty of opportunities to rationalize their lack of support. What I like about it is, they won’t be donating much if anything, they won’t be inspired to help with GOTV, they’ll just be voting and possibly will only start with the Senate race on their ballot. On our side? Shoooooot. Especially once Obama and Biden are out there campaigning for Clinton and helping with GOTV? Shooooooooooot.
Adam L Silverman
@BillinGlendaleCA: @hovercraft: They’re loans from himself to his campaign. Which he’ll be able to defer taxes on. And as David Cay Johnston always says: “a tax deferred is a tax not paid”.
Roger Moore
@hovercraft:
You left out the New Jersey Generals of the USFL.
Roger Moore
@srv:
I guess being a State Senator for 8 years and a US Senator for 4 now qualifies as being a left-wing agitator. Good to know.
raven
Great story about Evan Cole a badly wounded vet who rebuilt his life and just received his Masters in Architecture.
Patricia Kayden
@Villago Delenda Est: No, he doesn’t. How many people do we need like him in this world? One of him is more than enough.
@Origuy:
Wonder if a lot of people would figure out what Vichy signifies in that context. And if they’d consider that a bad thing if they figured it out. Many Trump supporters are straight up White Supremacists.
Elie
@Patricia Kayden:
Not one former GOP President or candidate (except McCain (?)) has endorsed Trump. To my knowledge, none of the major Republican presidential advisors — Jim Baker, etc., have said shit in his support. My guess is that they see the world on another level that they cannot ignore….
Adam L Silverman
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: @Anne Laurie: @M. Bouffant: This happened last year in the WV portion of Appalachia (no offense to JR in WV or Cole):
http://petapixel.com/2015/03/28/photographers-shooting-in-west-virginia-reportedly-harassed-and-detained-by-mob/
http://www.wvva.com/story/28617658/2015/03/25/controversy-over-out-of-state-photographers-in-mcdowell-co
Folks can be a bit insular in places that are off the beaten path.
Fellatio Alger
@srv: You’re stupid.
Villago Delenda Est
@Roger Moore: Actually, not just the NJ Generals. Drumpf managed to destroy the entire USFL with that gig, and make it amazingly easy for the NFL to utterly ignore it, which they couldn’t do with the AFL.
raven
@Fellatio Alger: This stupid motherfucker lives for people to reply to him.
Patricia Kayden
@Fellatio Alger: srv appears to be a Republican troll. It will be fun to read his babblings after November when Trump gets spanked by Secretary Clinton. I will savor his tears and bitterness. Election nights are the one time when I turn to Fox News to see how they’re reacting to losing Presidential elections. So much fun.
Elie
@Patricia Kayden:
This is a key differentiator whose stink will be impossible to get out of their and the world’s noses. And the support of the racists is an anvil that will not be ignorable or forgiveable… it moves this from just a bad GOP candidate to another level of atrocity. This is to me, a pretty unstable/volatile addition that blocks Trump becoming next level of acceptable (IMHO)
Villago Delenda Est
@Patricia Kayden: I love to watch Brit Hume suffer live on the teevee, myself.
Elie
@Patricia Kayden:
I never read srv’s comments. I’ve learned to skip him, BiP and a few others….
Gin & Tonic
@Adam L Silverman: Hey, just idle curiosity at work, but have you ever read Manuel DeLanda’s War in the Age of Intelligent Machines? DeLanda is a historian/philosopher in the mold of Foucault/Deleuze/Guattari, as opposed to a military historian, but I have always found his work intriguing. And he prompted me to read more about the Mongol conquest of Europe due to his analysis of their command and control systems.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@Anne Laurie:
Wouldn’t have mock d had it not been for the demand of “where are you people from”. It was surly as hell.
Adam L Silverman
@Gin & Tonic: I have not, I will look it up. I’m quite far behind on my reading. I’m currently stuck in chapter two on a history of the 2nd Amendment; chapter four or five of Devil in the White City about the first serial killer in the US and how he exploited the World’s Fair in Chicago, and have about eight or nine other things cued up behind it.
Never enough time to get to them all.
Miss Bianca
@Adam L Silverman: I gathered,from going to the link to his whole Twitter post, that this gentleman is the real deal when it comes to his/your craft. I could also tell he’s painfully conservative by my standards but not crazy. So, I can deal. I do, however, find myself wondering whether he would talk about a male Democratic candidate in that way.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@Adam L Silverman:
That was with about 80 miles of Butcher Holler, as the crow flies. Same mindset.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Adam L Silverman:
I’m reading this now – started it yesterday and I’m in about 100 pages. My very well read teacher daughter made it a point to give it to me, recommending it as maybe the best book she’s ever read. I understand why – I’ve learned an enormous amount of heretofore unknown (to me) information that I didn’t know I didn’t know. What a story!!!
ETA: I just finished All the Light There Is To See. Another great imagined story about a time we’d all be well off revisiting, with Trumpenfuerher looming on the horizon.
Adam L Silverman
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: I reckoned. I’ve seen that when I lived in GA and even when I lived in North Central FL. Get out of Gainesville, FL and into some of the small towns in/around the Ocala National Forest and same type of thing. Didn’t see too much of it South Central Pennsylvania, but I’m sure it did exist there too.
Schlemazel Khan
@StringOnASick:
Gosh that sound like fun, I would love to be able to do something like that.
Adam L Silverman
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Yep, its interesting. Also, the brownie recipe I posted a while back is a tweaked version of the one they invented for that year’s World’s Fair. I’ve also got The Devil in the Grove in the cue, which deals with a murder case that Associate Justice Marshall was involved with as an attorney before he was on the Supreme Court.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@Anne Laurie:
One other thing – I come from a long line of Central Kentucky trailer trash on my mother’s side. I was even at a family reunion that got its buffet tables shot up by an aggrieved “two name” cousin, aggrieved that his 4th wife had left him and that he was drunkenly living in a trailer without utilities in a flat bottom at his dad’s half ass dairy farm (his dad was hosting the reunion).
When it comes to mocking authentic heartland ‘Murkans, I got as good a claim of right as any….
Original Lee
I know this is a little old, but I think we need to remind ourselves of a key quote from this interview with Bill Moyers:
I think the 27% are committed to Drumpf and will not change their votes, no matter what. I’m hoping that the fraud suit will be a Terri Schiavo-level crowbar for the rest.
Adam L Silverman
@Miss Bianca: My guess is most likely. I’m not sure what you think is specifically gendered. Like I said, I only know of him by reputation and his work, but he’s been pretty upfront about his disagreements with President Obama’s policies, and I think he’d probably place him in the same spot on the distribution that he does Secretary Clinton: she’s mainstream, I don’t agree with her on anything, but she’s competent and isn’t outside the pale.
Patricia Kayden
@Villago Delenda Est: Karl Rove for the best election night breakdowns ever! Still laughing over him forcing Megyn Kelly to go backstage to talk to analysts about President Obama winning Ohio in 2012. That was a classic!
pseudonymous in nc
The GOP establishment (sans Bullshit Bill) and the craven DC media are already normalizing Donny the Duce.
#everydayTrumpism is its hashtag for the next six months.
debbie
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
I read All the Light There Is To See about 6 months ago. I struggled the first couple hundred pages, but by the end, I couldn’t believe how much I loved it.
@Origuy:
I like “Vichy Republicans.” I’ll try and implant it in my brothers’ minds.
Amir Khalid
@Elie:
Of the GOP former presidents, the only two still alive as of the start of this cycle are both named George Bush. Of its losing presidential nominees, the only two still alive are McCain and Bob Dole. So that’s actually only four guys. Doesn’t refute your point, but still …
Baud
@Amir Khalid: Romney is dead?
Anne Laurie
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class:
Fersure. And he has the right to mock back atcha!
debbie
@Amir Khalid:
Mitt would like a word with you…
ETA: Baud! Faster than Ever!
AliceBlue
@Adam L Silverman:
I highly recommend “In the Garden of Beasts” also by Erik Larson. It’s about the experiences of William Dodd, who became the American ambassador to Germany in 1933. Dodd’s daughter Martha is a pivotal character and the book reads like an extremely well written political thriller. I could hardly put it down.
Gin & Tonic
@Baud: Apparently dead to Amir.
smith
@Amir Khalid: And Bob Dole has endorsed Trump.
Shell
If you get the Starz channel, at 9 its the remake of ‘The Dresser’, starring Ian McKellen and Anthony Hopkins. Yowza!
Amir Khalid
@Baud:
@debbie:
Mitt who? Okay, okay, I miscounted. So that’s five guys. Still not quite a big sample.
hovercraft
@Adam L Silverman:
Better yet he can use money he raises for the campaign to pay himself back. All he has to do is wait until after election day if he doesn’t want his dupes to know until it’s too late. It gives him the added benefit of claiming to have spent all those millions and still get paid back.
Patricia Kayden
@Elie: Read them after Clinton wins in November though. They should be quite juicy as they’ll be mixed in with his tears.
@debbie: The biggest irony is that many of those “poorly educated” supporters who will be eagerly voting for Trump in November will be damaged more than some of us minority members who are financially better off than they are and who may be able to stay afloat as Trump’s policies wreak havoc on blue color workers. Black people like the Obamas, who are well educated, may not be hit as hard by a President Trump as Whites of lesser education/class. Wish someone would tell them that.
Gin & Tonic
@Adam L Silverman:
Ain’t that the truth.
Incidentally, DeLanda also presents a very good treatment of Von Neumann’s development of game theory at RAND, and how it influenced “war gaming” and nuclear strategy. Seems like it’d be up your alley.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Adam L Silverman:
Living in Boston, I appreciate the scholarly approach to describing the milieu of the turn of the 20th century through the interconnectedness of the elites of the day as they were tapped to make the fair happen – Olmstead, in particular. I’ve spent countless hours in Olmstead’s Emerald Necklace, and his description, in his own words, of what he set out to do with his work makes me appreciate his contribution to this city more than ever. The contemporaries of that time are the reading lists of my college political and sociology courses – Jane Addams, Upton Sinclair, Lincoln Steffens and other reformers. The smell of the stockyards in summer must have been something else again.
Amir Khalid
@smith:
He did? I am disappoint.
hovercraft
@Elie:
Bob Dole has and he’s encouraging everyone to rally around Trump.
Patricia Kayden
@smith: McCain has also endorsed Trump.
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2016/05/08/john-mccain-says-gop-must-abide-voters-wishes-on-trump/
Miss Bianca
@AliceBlue: That one’s right in my wheelhouse in terms of my own research and interests, and yet I could not finish it. Could barely begin it. Very puzzled and disappointed to find that I didn’t like the author’s style at all, when he’s been so cried up. So his other books have basically tumbled off my radar.
Glidwrith
@efgoldman: You are right, they don’t give a damn, other than to preserve their privilege, but they are leaders in their party. Their followers are quite authoritarian and may follow the ones that say #NeverTrump. The more followers that can be stripped away from the Drumpster Fire, the better shot we have at keeping a monster from coming to power.
debbie
@Patricia Kayden:
And still, they won’t have learned…
Amir Khalid
@efgoldman:
For now, yes.
Anne Laurie
@Amir Khalid: I prefer to think BobDole is being sarcastic — he also said Newt Gingrich should be Trump’s VP. (And he fought Gingrich bitterly when the Giant Albino Newt was Speaker back in the 1990s.)
Maybe “despairing” is a better word than “sarcastic” — BobDole probably can’t understand how “his” party has sunk to this level of depravity…
Timurid
@Villago Delenda Est:
Bath salts are bad, mkay…
chopper
@Anne Laurie:
I find it odd that you of all people would note this.
Mike in NC
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Devil in the White City was an awesome book and there were a couple of related documentaries made. Leonardo DiCaprio bought the film rights to the book – he wanted to star – but apparently that was the end of it.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Anne Laurie:
I believe that to be the case, and I cannot find fault with them in the least. It’s hard for us – middle to very upper middle – class US residents and citizens to imagine being in their place. But consider for a moment, rich, say, Scandavian tourists visiting here.
Might they not say “these people are weird as hell” upon observing people living with not safety net, apparently quite content to do so, with extreme wealth inequality? Along with a metric ton of animosity for people who are mostly very much like them in regards to socioeconomic status, but just slightly lower on the scale, and for many, a galactic terraton of animosity for people in generational dire circumstances (who should be self-made like the sneering “superiors”).
I can totally imagine that response to our culture, for reasons like that.
frosty
@Adam L Silverman:
Yep, in some of the hollers and cricks down along the Susquehanna, or maybe further inland. Hex Hollow near Glen Rock was the site of a couple of witchcraft murders in the 20s.
Miss Bianca
@Adam L Silverman: It’s not impossible that I’m over-sensitive, and scenting misogyny where others do not. It’s been known to happen.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Felanius Kootea: Looks neat. Thanks for the pointer. I kicked in a little. Fingers crossed.
Cheers,
Scott.
Miss Bianca
@Patricia Kayden: To be fair, he did also pick Sarah Palin as his VP. That gives some clue as to how much faith to put in his judgement.
PurpleGirl
@MJS: Selling the right to use his name on a building that he hasn’t built and won’t even manage? There was building in West Palm Beach that was intended to be a condominium. He sold his name to the real builders, who ran out of money and the building was there for several years before some other developers bought it. The original idea was that if the building had the Trump on it, units would sell even before construction was done…. uh, uh. Didn’t fly at all. When my friends picked me up at West Palm airport we’d pass the building site and shake our heads. He knew little of the real estate market in West Palm. It bit him.
When he bought the Mar-a-Lago estate, he planned to break up the estate and build a few dozen single family mansions. The Palm Beach City Council or planning people said NO. You must keep the estate whole. They would only allow him to turn the main house into a country club and build a golf course or two.
PurpleGirl
@Adam L Silverman:
Dr. Nichols is also a five-time undefeated Jeopardy! champion, and appeared in both the 1994 Tournament of Champions and the 2005 Ultimate Tournament of Champions, which featured the top 100 Jeopardy! players from previous years.
He’s a real person, really someone you’d like to have dinner and/or a beer with. Yeah, sounds like a real person.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@ThresherK: There was an Anne Laurie thread with a Chuck Todd Gotcha in a Dan Friedman tweet – here.
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Mike in NC:
It would make a great movie, along the lines of Ragtime but a much bigger canvas. I hope someone makes the movie before I’m dead.
Adam L Silverman
@PurpleGirl: I don’t know him personally, so I can’t say. Professionally he is very good at what he does.
redshirt
@Amir Khalid: bobdole’s endorsed Trump. Which disgusted me, given his horrible, terrible treatment at the hands of the GOP over the ratification of a UN treaty for the disabled. Pretty much the same rules as we have with the ADA. And the GOP promised bobdole – who was speaking on behalf of this treaty – that they’d vote for it, so bobdole showed up on the Senate floor in his wheelchair the day of the vote so he could watch Republicans vote against it, denying US participation in this global treaty on disability rights. Shaming bobdole on the floor.
And yet here he is today seemingly wholeheartedly endorsing Trump. Republicans are a hell of a gang.
PaulWartenberg2016
I think Kristol is referring to the Libertarians now that Gov. Johnson has confirmed his spot on the ballot.
What a twist of events that the third-party Libertarian candidate is now the experienced, almost sensible one over the Republican candidate.
(I did say ALMOST)
PaulWartenberg2016
@redshirt:
There comes a moment where the PARTY becomes more important than common sense or common decency. That moment for the Republicans was in 1992, and we’ve been suffering for it ever since.
Rude Pundit wrote a thing back in 2014, when the Republicans won the midterms in spite of opening campaigning against the needs of their own poor white voting bloc. http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2014/11/random-observations-on-reaming-thatll.html
RedDirtGirl
I’ve got a slogan for the Clinton Campaign
Hillary
Because I like an experienced woman.
or possibly,
Hillary – because I like my women (and my presidents) experienced.
PurpleGirl
@Shell: Thanks for the reminder. I saw the original movie with Tom Courtney.
Betsy
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Olmsted.
Sorry, this drives me crazy.
Gin & Tonic
@RedDirtGirl: Have you ever been experienced?
tybee
@jeffreyw:
titty bream
RedDirtGirl
It’s been said.
patrick II
@Anne Laurie:
I heard that interview with Dole and he sounded serious to me. He also sounded old as he asked for several questions to be repeated.
Strangely, he also said Trump should apologize to the people he as insulted, such as war hero John McCain. Once again local empathy is the hallmark of republicans since Bob Dole was himself a war hero.
But in the end he said he supported Trump, which disappointed but did not surprise me. The only guy he said he couldn’t support before this was Ted Cruz since Cruz hellped kill the U.N. handicapped bill in congress. Local empathy and denial once again.
RedDirtGirl
@Gin & Tonic: It just sounded better than
“I like experienced women” but that works too.
Jeffro
@debbie: We are talking about “All The Light We Cannot See” here, right?
That book is just amazing – I’d seen all the recommendations coming in and intended to pick it up someday, but then my mom had a copy, handed it over, and the rest is history. Even Mrs. Jeffro and some folks at work have borrowed it and love it.
StringOnASick
@efgoldman: sounds lovely, being that close to humpbacks. My husband gets these trips as part of his compensation, otherwise I doubt we’d have the $ for these trips. We received one to Maui and I found a local nonprofit on the web that would take us out in a 6 person outrigger as part of the paddling crew – I absolutely loved it There were flying fish “flying” by the canoe 3′ from me. The volunteers liked us because we eanted to paddle hard. They told us to come back in whale season and they’d get us close enough to get covered in whale snot.
liberal
@Adam L Silverman: Yeah, Devil in the White City is awesome. Right now I’m reading In the Garden of Beasts, which sadly seemed apropos for our times.
Felanius Kootea
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: Aww! Thank you Scott. I hope it makes it.
No One You Know
@Anne Laurie: This. A hundred times, this.
yellowdog
@Patricia Kayden: I have the feeling that they won’t mind being stomped on as long as the ‘Mexicans’ and Moslems get stomped on harder.
Uncle Cosmo
@Villago Delenda Est: Horrorhalfwitz is the urtypical political extremophile*: Only environments toxic to anyone within hailing distance of humanity are hospitable for his sort of lowlife.
(* Or a direct descendant of same…someone with the generic name of Peg DeMeter [@BothEnds]…)
J R in WV
@Adam L Silverman:
No offense taken here. There are places where the force is strong and I don’t mean the good force. Towns and tiny neighborhoods where people have been taken advantage of by their neighbors and relatives, and have learned not to trust anyone by means of painful lessons administered regularly.
Think about the coal business, with phony pay consisting of script good only at the company store, where prices are controlled by the guy who forces men to work in a dangerous mine, knowing that common safety techniques are being ignored to make another nickel on a ton of coal.
Think about farmers in the late 1800s being approached about their mineral rights and persuaded to sign away something they don’t understand for something nice, but inexpensive, like a new sewing machine. Then being put off their land many years later by cops with guns and legal papers giving coal men the right to bulldoze their land for that mineral their Grandpa signed away, one evening the previous century, for the precious treadle Singer sewing machine that Grandma used to make all their clothes.
All part of the historic record of Appalachia, unfortunately. Many of the “first families” of Charleston, Lexington, Philadelphia and Boston, etc, made their fortunes by exploiting country people in various horrible ways.
And every decade sees a new way to exploit people who are naive. Payday loans, Automotive title loans, Rent to Own furniture: all carrying a 200% interest rate, if it were legally a loan. So sometimes there is a somewhat justified paranoia about outsiders in places where the lesson has been learned but is a little skewed.
gogiggs
@Elie: They voted for Palin, why stop now?