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You are here: Home / Politics / Politicans / Bernie Sanders 2016 / Thursday Morning Open Thread: Jeff Weaver vs. Political Reality

Thursday Morning Open Thread: Jeff Weaver vs. Political Reality

by Anne Laurie|  June 2, 20164:39 am| 171 Comments

This post is in: Bernie Sanders 2016, C.R.E.A.M., Election 2016, Open Threads, Proud to Be A Democrat

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It is one of the small proud moments of my life that I actually got to vote for Barney Frank, once. “Why the chip, Jeff?”

But Chris Matthews, bless his heart, also acquitted himself nicely, this once. My transcript, of the final few minutes:

Matthews: You just said that Trump is hiding something, by not releasing his tax returns. What is your candidate hiding?

Weaver: I — my — my candidate is not hiding anything.

Matthews: But then why doesn’t he release his tax returns?

Weaver: He has released some —

Matthews: He’s released one year, of fourteen, that’s it.

Weaver: — and he has House and Senate ethics reports —

Matthews: Yeah, but why doesn’t he release his tax returns? You just said, a minute ago, that a politician is running for President, that doesn’t release his tax returns, has something to hide —

Weaver:
But that’s Donald Trump! You asked about Donald Trump, Chris!

Matthews: I asked you, why wouldn’t a politician release his tax returns…

Weaver: That’s not a hypothetical, you said why isn’t Donald Trump revealing his tax returns?!?

Matthews: Okay, fine. You said that Donald Trump would not release his tax returns because he was obviously trying to hide something. What is Senator Sanders hiding?

Weaver: He’s hiding nothing. And I think — if you talk to anybody in the media — who saw those tax returns in 2014 — everybody who thought there was gonna be some big thing in there, and you know what? Zero!

Matthews: I’m just asking the question, live question, right now: You just went after Trump, for not releasing his returns. Why doesn’t your guy do it?

Weaver: Yes, and that — because Trump is a flim-flam artist, and a fraud! We’ve seen that, in his university, and —

Matthews: Why don’t you address yourself to the question I just asked? Why doesn’t your guy release the returns? Give me an answer!

Weaver: Well, he will.

Matthews: Oh, he will?

Weaver: Sure! He said he will!

Matthews:
Senator Sanders will release his returns during the course of this campaign?

Weaver:
He said he will…

Matthews: Before the convention.

Weaver: He said he would, yeah.

Matthews: Well, can you give me a date?

Weaver: I’ll be happy to get you a date, Chris…

Gotta tell ya, IMO, Comic Book Guy does not cover himself with glory in this exchange. Even though I could swear I’ve seen very very similar crossed-sword exchanges in many, many superhero comic books, back in the day. And Weaver’s not playing the ‘superhero’ side here, either.
***********
Apart from the usual comix-al overdramatics, what’s on the agenda for the day?

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Reader Interactions

171Comments

  1. 1.

    SiubhanDuinne

    June 2, 2016 at 4:48 am

    That transcript is hilarious.

    Going back to bed now.

  2. 2.

    Major Major Major Major

    June 2, 2016 at 4:51 am

    Hahahahaha. What SD said. Including sleepytime.

    Random shameless plug for a blog post I wrote about document formatting.

  3. 3.

    C.S.Strowbridge

    June 2, 2016 at 4:53 am

    How does Jeff Weaver still have a job? Does Sanders really not understand the damage he’s done to his campaign?

  4. 4.

    Cacti

    June 2, 2016 at 4:56 am

    There’s a perfectly honest, innocent explanation why Bernie is acting so slippery about his personal finances.

    He just can’t tell us what that is because of reasons.

  5. 5.

    Keith G

    June 2, 2016 at 5:03 am

    @C.S.Strowbridge: In actuality, Sanders is not a big-time political thinker or a big-time political leader. He never thought his campaign was going to get this far so he never reached out and acquired the type of first-rate minds needed to run a successful campaign. Weaver is prime evidence.

    I will note that I saw on the news this morning that President Obama has finally joined Bernie Sanders in calling for expansion of Social Security. This is a bit of a change in his public stance on that topic. I guess he has finally given up on the chance for a grand bargain. It’s about fucking time. Yay Bernie. Yay Obama.

  6. 6.

    Central Planning

    June 2, 2016 at 5:37 am

    @Major Major Major Major: Interesting read

    Anywho, formatting is cool, and it lets you do things with a text that you couldn’t do before, and that’s good

    Generally that’s good. There are too many people who think they are graphic artists/designers and that allows them to make horrible choices for web pages.

    I recently was trying to help a non profit move their website to a free hosting provider and didn’t want to just move the website and take a bunch of crap along with it. I showed what I did to the board (same content, different layout) and they liked it. Original webmaster glared at me the whole time and wrote me a bitchy email…. I clearly called his baby ugly

    I took a design/layout class in college. I don’t remember many specifics about it any more, but I do remember the adage “you need to know the rules to break the rules” So many people have no idea what the rules are, and why they might exist (and not just in publishing!)

  7. 7.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 2, 2016 at 5:41 am

    Put down the shovel Jeff. The hole only gets deeper, so just put it down.

  8. 8.

    Betty Cracker

    June 2, 2016 at 5:42 am

    @Keith G: That’s my working theory on why it’s amateur hour at Sanders HQ too — a classic case of the dog who caught the car. Let’s just hope they can figure out how to release the quarry without fatal damage.

  9. 9.

    Aimai

    June 2, 2016 at 5:46 am

    @Keith G: uh… Nothing to do with Bernie. Duncan Black and Liz Warren have way more to do with this than Bernie. Plus his die hard supporters will not accept this as anything other than a trick. So, so tired of people being askedto praise Bernie like a toddler wearing big boy pants for the first time. His “proof of concept” campaign outlived its utility slong with his humility shtick and is dying sn ugly death because of his inability to recognize he is not the only moral political actor on the world stage.

  10. 10.

    Baud

    June 2, 2016 at 5:49 am

    @Keith G:

    I guess he has finally given up on the chance for a grand bargain. It’s about fucking time.

    Welcome to 2016. A lot has happened in the last 5 years.

    I thought the tax return thing with Romney was something. That was nothing compared to what going on with Sanders and Trump. Amazing.

  11. 11.

    rikyrah

    June 2, 2016 at 5:59 am

    Good Morning ?, Everyone ?

  12. 12.

    Betty Cracker

    June 2, 2016 at 6:01 am

    @Aimai: You might want to avoid Cole’s “Wizard” thread below, in that case. A couple of puling toddlers are pounding their sippy cups on their high chairs and threatening to hold their breath until we acknowledge their distress. Never thought any so-called Democratic voter bloc could be more annoying than the goddamn PUMAs, but here they are…

  13. 13.

    Keith G

    June 2, 2016 at 6:03 am

    @Aimai: I am firmly in the “neither” camp. It is neither necessary completely praise Sanders or to completely criticize him. And it’s the same with President Obama. Each of them have both credits and debits to their accounts, though not in equal number.

    @Baud: There were many fully rational beings who got this point before 2016. Nonetheless, now is better than never.

  14. 14.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 2, 2016 at 6:11 am

    @Betty Cracker: Now Betty, we can’t say that or they’ll take the bat and baseball and head home. At least that’s what they tell me.

  15. 15.

    Baud

    June 2, 2016 at 6:11 am

    @Keith G: Obama being one of them.

  16. 16.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    June 2, 2016 at 6:19 am

    (NYT) — Hillary Clinton to Portray Donald Trump’s Foreign Policy Positions as Dangerous

    Hillary Clinton in Newark on Wednesday. Her speech Thursday will come on a final swing before California’s primary on Tuesday.

    Hillary Clinton plans to deliver a scorching assessment of Donald J. Trump’s foreign policy prescriptions on Thursday, casting her likely Republican rival as a threat to decades of bipartisan tenets of American diplomacy and declaring him unfit for the presidency.

    Mrs. Clinton’s campaign aides said the speech, which she will deliver in San Diego, would be the start of a persistent assault to portray a potential Trump presidency as a dangerous proposition that would weaken American alliances and embolden enemies.

    The argument will include specific criticism of comments Mr. Trump has made about rethinking the United States’s support of NATO; his proposal to allow Japan, South Korea and Saudi Arabia to acquire nuclear weapons; his vow to temporarily bar Muslims from entering the United States; and his pledge to advance the use of torture and kill the families of suspected terrorists.

  17. 17.

    magurakurin

    June 2, 2016 at 6:20 am

    Harry Reid puts the hammer down on Bernie. Time to quit.

    In the same Matthews/Weaver exchange Matthews sliced and diced Weaver on the whole “contested convention” idea. He asked how it makes logical sense that his candidate is asking for a prime time speaking slot on Monday or Tuesday when he doesn’t plan to concede until Wednesday. If Bernie really does want to take this to Philly, he will find himself leading an rag tag army of skeletons. He will arrive all alone and battered. For his sake, I really hope he reconsiders and concedes before the convention.

  18. 18.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    June 2, 2016 at 6:20 am

    (NYT) — Wave of Republicans Say They Plan to Skip Convention

    A wave of prominent Republicans have announced their intention to skip the party’s national convention in Cleveland this summer, the latest sign that Donald J. Trump, who last week secured the delegates needed to clinch the Republican presidential nomination, continues to struggle in his effort to unite the party behind his candidacy.

    The list of those who have sent regrets includes governors and United States senators — almost all facing tough re-election fights this year — and lifelong party devotees who have attended every convention for decades. Some are renouncing their seats like conscientious objectors.

    “I could not in good conscience attend a coronation and celebration of Donald Trump,” wrote one Indiana delegate, Josh Claybourn, in a blog post resigning his position.

    The coolness toward Mr. Trump amounts to a remarkable rebuke. A broad range of party leaders are openly rejecting the man who will be their nominee

    .

  19. 19.

    Jack the Second

    June 2, 2016 at 6:21 am

    @Baud: I do blame Romney a little for being so reticent with his tax returns and normalizing it a little. If he had released a decade’s of tax returns promptly, I don’t think Trump would have felt as confident that he could get away without doing it — I mean, that was the popular theory why he didn’t try to run before now, despite talking a big game every year a big prestigious office was open.

  20. 20.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    June 2, 2016 at 6:28 am

    whole “contested convention” idea.

    Every time I read this from his dimwits I want to throw-up. The whole notion is so annoying from a logical point of view. A contested convention only happens when the vote is split among 3 or more candidates and no one has enough votes. In a 2 person race, clearly 1 will have a majority – it’s binary (ie no contest). The stoopid, it burns.

  21. 21.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 2, 2016 at 6:31 am

    @Jack the Second: Trump doesn’t see the rules as applying to him. He never has, he never will. That is not “normalized” behavior. It is narcissistic. Something all rich people share to at least some extent.

  22. 22.

    Aimai

    June 2, 2016 at 6:31 am

    @Keith G: I don’t even know how you can speak of Bernie and Obama in the same breath–let alone compare their accomplishments as though they were on the same plane. President Obama has literally saved the lives of millions of people. Totally altered the health care system, normalized relations with Cuba, brokered a world historic nuclear agreement with Iran, run the country for two drama free terms. Bernie has been a back bencher for thirty years. Doing no more and in many cases quite a bit less than others including Senator Clinton. Talk about the soft bigotry of low expectations! He is a god damned also ran like any other second placer in a two person race. Historically and really he is not fit to shine Obama’s shoes.

  23. 23.

    amk

    June 2, 2016 at 6:32 am

    How I wish chris fucking mathews could show the same guts when he deals with rethugs.

  24. 24.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    June 2, 2016 at 6:39 am

    Mark Cuban on Trump’s con-job

    I don’t think he’s very good at brands for non-real-estate products. And, to me, it’s more a reflection of desperation. So when you’re putting your name on steaks, and you’re putting your name on water, you’re putting your name on playing cards, you’re putting your name on all this nonsense, right? You’re not going to make big bucks, no matter what. It’s not like Trump Steaks were going to make him $100 million. It’s not like it was going to make him $5 million.

    I asked, ‘What the hell are you doing? Are you that desperate for money?’ Seriously.

    I’ve been saying this forever. Someone who is actually rich wouldn’t engage in low-yield fraud like Trump University or humiliating products like Trump drain cleaner.

  25. 25.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 2, 2016 at 6:41 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: I disagree a bit, I’ve met some very wealthy folk that are not at all like that; they’re smart and good at what they do. I’ve also met some that are insecure, that’s where you see the narcissistic tendencies.

  26. 26.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 2, 2016 at 6:44 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: John had it right with his post yesterday, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain…

  27. 27.

    Chyron HR

    June 2, 2016 at 6:46 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:

    Hillary Clinton Donald Trump to Portray Donald Trump’s Foreign Policy Positions as Dangerous

  28. 28.

    different-church-lady

    June 2, 2016 at 6:47 am

    When you’re getting owned by Tweety, you’re doing something very very wrong.

  29. 29.

    Betty Cracker

    June 2, 2016 at 6:49 am

    Is it wishful thinking on my part, or did Trump’s declaration of war on the press finally wake up the Beltway media types? Seems like the tone has shifted. Current headline at CNN: “Donald Trump’s Obsession with Himself.”

  30. 30.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 2, 2016 at 6:49 am

    @Aimai:

    run the country for two drama free terms.

    Heh, that gave me a giggle. There has been plenty of drama the past 7+ yrs. Of course, all of it was manufactured by the right wing in Congress (“Will they really destroy the govt’s credit rating????”) but a lack there was not. ;-)

  31. 31.

    raven

    June 2, 2016 at 6:51 am

    @Betty Cracker: It wouldn’t be wishful thinking if this was even close to the first time.

  32. 32.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    June 2, 2016 at 6:52 am

    Alleged Billionaire

    I’ve been working on a piece on the many substantial, albeit circumstantial, reasons to believe that Donald Trump is not only not worth $10 billion but quite likely not a billionaire at all. In other words, Trump’s vaunted alleged wealth seems to be a fraud. Now it seems Trump frenemy Mark Cuban has similar doubts.

    – Josh Marshall

    They got to bang that drum everyday – fraud, fraud, fraud.

  33. 33.

    Randy P

    June 2, 2016 at 6:55 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Hmm. Now I’m starting to wonder if that check he wrote to some Veteran’s group after being shamed into it, actually cleared.

    Or did he call his bank and stop it?

  34. 34.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 2, 2016 at 6:56 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: You think it’s bad now for Trump, wait until the Biden gets loose.

  35. 35.

    Princess

    June 2, 2016 at 6:56 am

    @Betty Cracker: Never argue with someone who buys ink by the barrel. (Or pixels, I guess). The press loves nothing more than its own self-regard. Trump pictured that, and will pay. At least a little.

  36. 36.

    Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class

    June 2, 2016 at 6:57 am

    Having a clown like Weaver in such a high profile position is a direct reflection of Bernie’s executive ability.

  37. 37.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 2, 2016 at 6:57 am

    @Randy P: Nah, it’s a good tax deduction.

  38. 38.

    AnderJ

    June 2, 2016 at 6:59 am

    It seems that there should a picture/snapshot or embedded video above the “why the chip” comment in the main post. I am only seeing a large grey area. Can anyone see (and tell me) what Betty posted?

  39. 39.

    debbie

    June 2, 2016 at 7:00 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:

    David Cay Johnston has been doing exactly that for a while.

  40. 40.

    amk

    June 2, 2016 at 7:04 am

    PGA tour – donnie dreck is ruining our brand. So we are moving to mehico. Ironic.

  41. 41.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 2, 2016 at 7:05 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    they’re smart and good at what they do.

    That does not mean they can’t be narcissistic to some extent. I know a # of people who are well off, some might even say they are rich, and they are for the most part nice folks, but they aren’t Romney rich, they aren’t whatever Trump rich is, they aren’t Theil rich, and something else they aren’t is Romney/Trump/Theil narcissistic.

    ALL the people I have met who are Romney/Trump/Theil rich? Yeah, everyone of them has been a raging asshole who think the world exists to serve them.

  42. 42.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    June 2, 2016 at 7:08 am

    Washington Post front page

    Trump’s vendetta against federal judge alarms legal experts

    Some worry that the presumptive GOP nominee’s personal, racially tinged attacks and his suggestion of taking action against the judge overseeing lawsuits against him indicate a remarkable disregard for judicial independence.

    Trump gave money to a veterans group with ties to a backer — Hannity

    The Fox News Channel host defended how Donald Trump handled the donations to veterans groups. What he didn’t say on air was that he had a years-long relationship with one that got a $75,000 gift.

    PGA moves tournament at Donald Trump’s Miami golf course … to Mexico

    The prestigious Doral course has hosted an elite professional golf event every year since 1962, but a lost sponsorship and politics might have played a role in the move, the PGA Tour commissioner said. Trump’s take: “I hope they have kidnapping insurance.”

    Shakeup in RNC’s Hispanic media shop as party prepares for Trump nomination

    The head of Hispanic media relations for the Republican National Committee is leaving party headquarters to join a conservative group supporting GOP congressional candidates. She’ll be replaced by a former top aide to Jeb Bush who spent much of the last year raising doubts about Donald Trump.

  43. 43.

    aimai

    June 2, 2016 at 7:09 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Faulty toiletraining and horrible parenting, more than the mere fact of the money. You can be a narcissitic asshole and have no money at all–in fact, you probbly get as much pleasure out of bullying and controlling people around you as any moneyed asshole. And you can be born to the purple and have tons of money and still have empathy for other people, or be a self made millionaire and have empathy for others. Its a personality trait, not an economic position.

  44. 44.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    June 2, 2016 at 7:13 am

    People Mag Says Paul Ryan Insisted He Not Be Asked About Trump

    A Father’s Day profile of House Speaker Paul Ryan in the celebrity lifestyle magazine People portrays the lawmaker as a devoted father who takes his kids’ sugar intake seriously.

    But the story also contains a curious disclaimer noting Ryan requested the magazine not ask him about his party’s presumptive nominee, Donald Trump, as a condition of the interview.

    (Photo) of Paul Ryan fleeing the interview

  45. 45.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    June 2, 2016 at 7:16 am

    1 week til Clinton wins nomination

    5 weeks til 4th of July vacation

    6 weeks til Cleveland burns down

    7 weeks till Hillary unveils running mate

  46. 46.

    Baud

    June 2, 2016 at 7:17 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:

    7 weeks till Hillary unveils running mate

    Huh?

  47. 47.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 2, 2016 at 7:21 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Might it have to do with inheriting money as opposed to making it from your own smarts?

  48. 48.

    NotMax

    June 2, 2016 at 7:23 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    204 shopping days until Christmas.

    (5 weeks from today, BTW, is July 7.)

  49. 49.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 2, 2016 at 7:23 am

    @Baud: Don’t worry, she’ll have her people call your people.

  50. 50.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 2, 2016 at 7:24 am

    @NotMax: July 7th?

  51. 51.

    Baud

    June 2, 2016 at 7:25 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: I’ll need to get some people.

    I didn’t know if there was some kind of announcement as to timing.

  52. 52.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 2, 2016 at 7:26 am

    @aimai:

    You can be a narcissitic asshole and have no money at all–in fact, you probbly get as much pleasure out of bullying and controlling people around you as any moneyed asshole

    And then the day comes when somebody beats you to a bloody pulp and there isn’t a damn thing you can do about it. Or they just shoot you down in the street with the whole town watching and not a single person sees a damn thing.

    Just once, I would like to see somebody walk up to one of these a-holes and bitch-slap them. But it won’t happen, and you and I and everyone else know why.

  53. 53.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    June 2, 2016 at 7:26 am

    @Baud: What? Aren’t U going to accept and unite the party?

  54. 54.

    NotMax

    June 2, 2016 at 7:28 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA

    Yup, which is somewhat after July 4 “vacation.”

  55. 55.

    Baud

    June 2, 2016 at 7:29 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Do you think Sanders will approve?

  56. 56.

    Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class

    June 2, 2016 at 7:31 am

    @aimai:

    There’s a local thug who has been at the heart of multiple gang murders, and is directing his criminal al enterprises from prison. Everybody knows it, but as he has been up front about killing witnesses (and had even co-opted a paralegal at the public defender’s office several years ago for “snitch deal” info from files). I’ve spoken with a lawyer who had prosecuted him in the past – apparently, the dude is wrapped up in his games, and is so focused on them that prison doesn’t bother him at all. He’s content to make life or death decisions from a cell because THAT is his greatest focus in life – his power and reputation spring from it.

    Of course, he came up from nothing.

  57. 57.

    Baud

    June 2, 2016 at 7:33 am

    @Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: Obviously wasn’t toilet trained properly. ;-)

  58. 58.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    June 2, 2016 at 7:36 am

    @Baud: Obama announced Biden 2 days before the convention.

    Just keeping the selection secret captured the news cycle for the 2 weeks leading to the convention and created tremendous build-up and excitement.(photo)

    Hopefully Hillz does the same.

  59. 59.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 2, 2016 at 7:40 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    Might it have to do with inheriting money as opposed to making it from your own smarts?

    No. I’ve seen it happen both ways. Some folks who earn it all “by themselves” are nice folks who understand that in addition to hard work and sticktoitiveness and smarts there was a little luck, and others think they are a master of the universe and all should bow down to their obvious superiority. Some who inherit it know they just hit the birth lottery and realize how fortunate they are and share it, while others think they were born better than everyone else. Aimai mentioned parenting, and that certainly can play a part, as do genes, but affluenza is a real thing and when one is so rich that you literally can buy anything you want including an acquittal for murder….

    That twists the mind in a way few can understand.

  60. 60.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 2, 2016 at 7:40 am

    @Baud: Joe of the Morning was saying if HRC doesn’t win by double digits in CA she’ll need to put Bernie on the ticket. Joe must be doing of good blow off an expensive escort right before the show.

  61. 61.

    Baud

    June 2, 2016 at 7:42 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Joe is heading into always wrong Bill Kristol territory.

  62. 62.

    PurpleGirl

    June 2, 2016 at 7:44 am

    @Central Planning: When I worked at the non-profit, my first position was as secretary for the field staff. I design and created handout/training materials. I also did fliers for the field staff to then photocopy at their schools.

    My one fight with the field staff was trying to teach them the type of fonts to use different types of text. One person in particular insisted on using display type meant to be an inch tall or larger in small sizes for regular information text. It drove me crazy.

    ETA: Although I don’t have formal graphics training, I had to learn the rules for typing mathematics and I typed the complicated text as if it were graphics. The professors all liked how their work looked.

  63. 63.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 2, 2016 at 7:44 am

    @Baud: They often have “Always Wrong Bill Kristol” on the show.

  64. 64.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    June 2, 2016 at 7:47 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: what else would you expect from a Trump University graduate.

  65. 65.

    Baud

    June 2, 2016 at 7:47 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Proof that derp undergoes osmosis?

  66. 66.

    Percysowner

    June 2, 2016 at 7:49 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Well, let’s how she doesn’t shout when she does it, because a woman shouting is far, far worse than putting the world in danger!

  67. 67.

    Culture of Truth

    June 2, 2016 at 7:49 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Joe Scar is just a Republican trying to weaken the Democratic party.

    Common sense applies here. Photocopiers are cheap enough that there is some problem with in Sanders’ taxes or accessing them.

    Likewise, if Trump was a true billionaire he wouldn’t be so desperate for money, slapping his name on cheap products and quasi criminal get-rich-quit schemes.

  68. 68.

    Gimlet

    June 2, 2016 at 7:50 am

    Sen. Cory Booker (D-N.J.) on Wednesday fueled speculation that he could be Hillary Clinton’s vice presidential pick with an all-out assault on Donald Trump at a campaign event in New Jersey.

    “The issues we hear Donald Trump talking about are just so contrary to who we are as a people,” the first-term senator said at a Clinton rally in Newark.

    Booker is seen as a rising star in the Democratic Party, having risen from the mayor of Newark to a senator with an active following on social media.

    While Clinton has given few clues about who she might pick as her running mate should she become the nominee, Booker is often mentioned by political pundits as a contender because he would bring youth and diversity to the ticket.

    ——-
    http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/the-democratic-party-future-dark-money-fracking

    This NewDEAL has little in common with President Franklin Roosevelt’s New Deal platform, which pledged to save capitalism from itself by cracking down on predatory banking institutions and restoring workplace rights for Americans.

    The group, touted as a platform to “highlight rising pro-business progressives,” is led by Democrats who have made a name for themselves by bucking the populist trend. They include NewDeal co-chair Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey, whose zeal for the charterization of public schools and love of Wall Street makes him indistinguishable from many across the aisle. The other co-chair, Governor John Hickenlooper, has staked a position in Colorado’s energy wars as a staunch defender of drillers.

  69. 69.

    Percysowner

    June 2, 2016 at 7:52 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: You could also get a contested convention where one candidate had more delegates and the other had more votes, due to the nature of caucuses vs. primaries, but that is really unlikely to happen with sane candidates who belong to the party. Bernie doesn’t have either and is unlikely to get a majority of votes, but he’s not a party member so who knows what he will do.

  70. 70.

    Kay

    June 2, 2016 at 7:52 am

    So, 2018 in Ohio could be Sherrod Brown (re-elect) and Richard Cordray for governor:

    But more important will be the election for governor. And while former Cincinnati-area state Rep. Connie Pillich has been telling people for months that she will be a candidate, the truth is far more elusive.
    That’s because Pillich can’t really make her decision until Richard Cordray makes his.

    Assembling a statewide ticket with a chance of succeeding will be the first major test of the party’s relative new state chairman, David Pepper.
    In his travels around the state, Pepper talks of 2018 being “the best set of circumstances for a Democrat that we’ve seen” in a long time.
    “We believe it’s a huge opportunity,” said Pepper. “The most important issue of 2018 may be the need to fix our school systems. What the Republicans are doing to them right now is a catastrophe.”

    Democrats rank public education (as an issue) much higher than Republicans do. I’m obviously biased but I would love if state Democrats focused there – they must have polling that Republicans are vulnerable on it because they’re all talking about it.

    I actually like Connie Pillich but Cordray could be great- he could eventually be President.

  71. 71.

    Matt McIrvin

    June 2, 2016 at 7:57 am

    @Percysowner:

    You could also get a contested convention where one candidate had more delegates and the other had more votes, due to the nature of caucuses vs. primaries, but that is really unlikely to happen with sane candidates who belong to the party.

    You know who could have made a case on those grounds? Hillary Clinton in 2008. She even tried that line earlier in the campaign, but she’d given up on it by convention time.

    A nightmare scenario I was worrying about earlier in the year was the one in which Bernie Sanders overtakes Hillary Clinton in national primary-preference polls, even though Clinton has sewn up the convention delegates. I could see Sanders making a case for the superdelegates to flip to him on the grounds that polling indicates that the people who already voted for Hillary are now having second thoughts, and would actually want their votes nullified. That could create an ugly, ugly situation in which both candidates actually have a claim to being the people’s choice. But that’s not happening; the national primary polls have stabilized.

  72. 72.

    Baud

    June 2, 2016 at 8:01 am

    @Matt McIrvin: That would have been messier, but no more persuasive to superdelegates IMHO. They simply aren’t going to overturn the primary results absent truly extraordinary circumstances.

    And people put too much stock in polls.

  73. 73.

    different-church-lady

    June 2, 2016 at 8:02 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    …doing of good blow off an expensive escort…

    rotating tag line please

  74. 74.

    different-church-lady

    June 2, 2016 at 8:05 am

    @Gimlet:

    Booker is often mentioned by political pundits as a contender…

    Which pretty much guarantees it won’t be Booker.

  75. 75.

    Kay

    June 2, 2016 at 8:06 am

    @Matt McIrvin:

    The county Democrats here, the central committee, genuinely believe Sanders can’t win a general. They think a third term for any Democrat is difficult enough and Sanders will lose. I suppose they are “the establishment” but they’re hardly DC powerbrokers and this is what they believe to a man (or woman). Sanders refuses to engage with that, and Obama DID engage with rank and file doubts- Obama did this whole “validation” effort where he persuaded them he could win a general.

  76. 76.

    Germy

    June 2, 2016 at 8:07 am

    @PurpleGirl: A local activist made the mistake of letting someone Creative design a flyer for a small non-profit. The Creative Person gave it a black background with white and yellow text. Snazzy!
    When the activist tried to print them out, the black toner cartridge emptied out quickly.
    She had to redesign them herself.

  77. 77.

    Baud

    June 2, 2016 at 8:09 am

    @Kay:

    I suppose they are “the establishment” but they’re hardly DC powerbrokers

    But are they billionaires?

  78. 78.

    different-church-lady

    June 2, 2016 at 8:09 am

    @Matt McIrvin:

    That could create an ugly, ugly situation in which both candidates actually have a claim to being the people’s choice one candidate has a claim to actually being the people’s choice and the other has a theoretical claim based on a hypothetical alternate past.

  79. 79.

    Kay

    June 2, 2016 at 8:13 am

    @Gimlet:

    I don’t know but I think Clinton will never pick Booker. She’s considered to be better on public education than Obama was and that’s Booker’s flash point in the base. It would alienate a larg-ish group who have been with her a long time- a lot of the public ed people supported her in ’08 over Obama and they feel they have been validated- that she would have been better than Obama on that issue. It’s one of her strengths, where she is considered superior to Obama.

  80. 80.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    June 2, 2016 at 8:16 am

    I can’t stand Booker.

    But it won’t be him because Christie would appoint his replacement and they would lose the seat for atleast the 1st year.

  81. 81.

    Patricia Kayden

    June 2, 2016 at 8:16 am

    @Gimlet: No. Please not Cory. He’s alright but not someone who would add anything to HRC’s ticket.

  82. 82.

    Joel

    June 2, 2016 at 8:17 am

    @Kay: Could be that Booker is cozying up to Schumer, as opposed to Clinton.

  83. 83.

    bemused

    June 2, 2016 at 8:19 am

    Reading Rude Pundit on Trump’s vet donation press conference cracked me up. I just wish I could send link to some older relatives but they would blanch at Rude’s language. I laughed hard at Trump’s opening remarks on the GOP convention in Cleveland.

    I think it will be very exciting.
    It will add excitement in Cleveland.
    That’s what we want because it’s going to be an exciting period of time.
    That’s something to me that’s very exciting.
    Overall, it’s just been a very exciting period.

    Miss Teen USA South Carolina word salad “such as” American’s not having maps popped into my head and now I will be thinking of that every time I hear Trump talk.

  84. 84.

    Baud

    June 2, 2016 at 8:20 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
    @Patricia Kayden:

    I would be shocked if it’s Booker.

  85. 85.

    Kay

    June 2, 2016 at 8:21 am

    @Baud:

    Sanders campaign is weird. For such a grass roots, people-powered effort so much of it is conducted on cable television. It’s weirdly 1990s-ish, the operatives spinning like mad in political media. Obama had this whole ground thing going on, where he had local “validators” and it was beneath the radar. Sanders effort feels false to me, like they’re exaggerating the “movement” and I think that’s part of what the county committee are picking up. They would look for passionate local supporters, that would be the pressure point they would respond to.

  86. 86.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 2, 2016 at 8:21 am

    @Kay: The Republican would have a field day with Bernie: Bernie wants to raise your taxes and make you go to the DMV for you medical care, or Bernie wants to raid your 401k to send some rich family’s kid to college for free…

    They’re really easy to write.

  87. 87.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 2, 2016 at 8:22 am

    @Baud: Don’t you mean bill-yun-airs?

  88. 88.

    Baud

    June 2, 2016 at 8:27 am

    @Kay: Everything seems false to me this time around. The media is completely post-truth and for the first time the blogs are right there with them.

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    Sorry, I don’t know how to type in Brooklynese.

  89. 89.

    Kay

    June 2, 2016 at 8:38 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    I don’t find Clinton’s “free college” argument at all persuasive and I think it was a mistake by her campaign. It defies reality. “Free college” is spreading and it’s wildly popular. It’s elitist and clueless to think “college” means 4 years away at university. That isn’t what it means to tens of millions of lower income people. They go to community colleges or they commute.

    My 13 year old will be getting “free college” in Ohio courtesy of John Kasich. He’ll take college classes in high school. They’re free. I’m thrilled he’ll walk out of high school with college credit, not to mention that our high school doesn’t even offer the language he wants to learn. “4 years away at college” = “college” is an upper income construct. Lower income people have been cobbling together college credits for years. Clinton herself has free college- she has Obama’s plan. She shot herself in that foot with that poorly-considered tactic.

  90. 90.

    Patricia Kayden

    June 2, 2016 at 8:41 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: We would also hear about how Bernie is a big, bad, scary Socialist. Most of the populace wouldn’t understand the difference between a Socialist and a Democratic Socialist, which is what Sanders calls himself.

    http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2016/01/26/Bernie-Sanders-Says-He-s-Democratic-Socialist-Here-s-What-Means

  91. 91.

    Kay

    June 2, 2016 at 8:45 am

    @Baud:

    I struggle with it because exaggerating support is a tactic and I feel like it’s fair. It goes back to Cesar Chavez. He would get one local to support a boycott and he would happily go along with idiot media when they would say “The Teamsters” wouldn’t haul grapes- like that. It’s like “fake it ’till you make it” and they all do it. It’s just that you can’t start believing it and you also have to make it after faking it. You can’t just keep on faking it.

  92. 92.

    Another Holocene Human

    June 2, 2016 at 8:46 am

    @Keith G:

    I will note that I saw on the news this morning that President Obama has finally joined Bernie Sanders in calling for expansion of Social Security. This is a bit of a change in his public stance on that topic. I guess he has finally given up on the chance for a grand bargain. It’s about fucking time. Yay Bernie. Yay Obama.

    I think it’s fair to say Obama gave up on the notion of achieving a grand bargain ages ago, but found it useful to continue trolling the Republicans. It is no longer useful, so he abandons it. I know that doesn’t follow the narrative of “Obama must be dumber than me, because I’m white” but it does have the virtue of fitting the observable facts better. Obama may not play 11-D chess (how do you know?) but he plays the 3-D kind very, very well.

  93. 93.

    amk

    June 2, 2016 at 8:49 am

    @Kay: You are projecting what kasich did on to Hillary now?

    Come nov, you got two choices – her or the con clown? Rest is all overthinking it.

  94. 94.

    Baud

    June 2, 2016 at 8:50 am

    @Kay: Right. It was one thing to focus on Bernie’s big crowds at the beginning of the primary process, but that really has lost a lot of its punch now that we’re near the end.

  95. 95.

    Another Holocene Human

    June 2, 2016 at 8:50 am

    @rikyrah: perfect emojis! lol :)

  96. 96.

    rikyrah

    June 2, 2016 at 9:05 am

    Our President yesterday:

    .So, look, here’s my main point: The primary story that Republicans have been telling about the economy is not supported by the facts. It’s just not. They repeat it a lot – but it’s not supported by the facts. But they say it anyway. Now, why is that? It’s because it has worked to get them votes, at least at the congressional level.

    Because – and here, look, I’m just being blunt with you – by telling hardworking, middle-class families that the reason they’re getting squeezed is because of some moochers at the bottom of the income ladder, because of minorities, or because of immigrants, or because of public employees, or because of feminists – because of poor folks who aren’t willing to work, they’ve been able to promote policies that protect powerful special interests and those who are at the very top of the economic pyramid. That’s just the truth.

    I hope you don’t mind me being blunt about this, but I’ve been listening to this stuff for a while now. And I’m concerned when I watch the direction of our politics. I mean, we have been hearing this story for decades. Tales about welfare queens, talking about takers, talking about the “47 percent.” It’s the story that is broadcast every day on some cable news stations, on right-wing radio, it’s pumped into cars, and bars, and VFW halls all across America, and right here in Elkhart.

    And if you’re hearing that story all the time, you start believing it. It’s no wonder people think big government is the problem. No wonder public support for unions is so low. No wonder that people think that the deficit has gone up under my presidency when it’s actually gone down. No wonder that – they did a survey, a lot of white Americans think reverse discrimination is as big a problem as discrimination against minorities, even though black unemployment is twice as high as white unemployment. And the typical Hispanic woman makes 55 cents for every dollar a white man earns, and there are only a handful of women running Fortune 500 companies.
    But that’s the story that’s been told. And I’m here to say, Elkhart, seven and a half years since I first came here, we’ve got to challenge the assumptions behind this economic story. And the reason is it has ended up dividing Americans who actually have common economic interests and should be working together for a better deal from the people who serve them. And it’s made people cynical about government, and it’s kept working families from pushing our political system to actually address our economic challenges in a realistic way. Families of all races, and all backgrounds, deserve higher wages. Families of all races, and all backgrounds, deserve quality health care and decent retirement savings. Every child in this country deserves an education that lets them dream bigger than the circumstances in which they’re born.

    You know, look, in today’s economy, we can’t put up walls around America. We’re not going to round up 11 million people. We’re not going to put technology back in the box. We’re not going to rip away hard-earned rights of women and minorities and Americans with disabilities so that they’re able to more fairly and fully participate in the workplace. These are permanent fixtures in our economy. And rolling them back will not help folks in Elkhart or anyplace else.

    And if we’re going to transform our politics so that they’re actually responsive to working families and are actually growing the middle class, then we’ve got to stop pitting working Americans against one another. We’re going to have to come together and choose a vision of America where everybody gets a fair shot, and everybody does their fair share, and everybody plays by the same set of rules. And that’s the vision that made progress possible over these last seven years. And that’s what’s going to lead us forward now.

  97. 97.

    Another Holocene Human

    June 2, 2016 at 9:05 am

    @aimai: There’s also a difference between narcissistic traits, being a jerk in general, and narcissistic personality disorder. While the current DSM disagrees (probably because of courts in some countries, not really US, trying to force psychologists to disambiguate between NPD and sociopathy and psychopathy–yet some individuals can have psychopathy, which is neurological, AND have NPD at the same time, mind blown), NPD is a distinct cluster of thought patterns and personality traits. It is driven as stated earlier in this thread by a deep insecurity which likely comes from how they were reared as a child. However some specialists believe there is also an inherited component to it.

    I am the mini expert on this subject because I believe my mother has NPD. She also has comorbid depression. Unlike Trump, she has not been in her own mind successful and gave up on projecting consistently the false persona. However, her need/rage cycle is classic NPD. When you grow up with a parent who is incapable of loving you, that’s pretty profound. She fundamentally doesn’t love herself (although she indulges herself plenty), so how can she love anyone else?

  98. 98.

    Another Holocene Human

    June 2, 2016 at 9:08 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:

    1 week til Clinton wins nomination

    5 weeks til 4th of July vacation

    6 weeks til Cleveland burns down

    7 weeks till Hillary unveils running mate

    Yesterday you’d forgiven me but it’ll still be two days ’til I say I’m sorry.

  99. 99.

    rikyrah

    June 2, 2016 at 9:09 am

    @Kay:

    I don’t find Clinton’s “free college” argument at all persuasive and I think it was a mistake by her campaign. It defies reality. “Free college” is spreading and it’s wildly popular. It’s elitist and clueless to think “college” means 4 years away at university. That isn’t what it means to tens of millions of lower income people. They go to community colleges or they commute.

    I thought free and quality pre-school is far more bang for the buck.

  100. 100.

    Another Holocene Human

    June 2, 2016 at 9:12 am

    @Gimlet: SuperCory seems like a longshot to me, given his Wall St fellating remarks on live TV and the general tenor of the populace these days. I like he-whose-last-name-FYWP-loathes, but he also has a Newark problem, like O’Malley had a Baltimore problem. Maybe not as bad, but bad enough.

  101. 101.

    Jack the Second

    June 2, 2016 at 9:16 am

    @Patricia Kayden: Shit, most of the public doesn’t understand the difference between a Socialist and a National Socialist.

  102. 102.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    June 2, 2016 at 9:21 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: @Baud: Joe of the Morning was saying if HRC doesn’t win by double digits in CA she’ll need to put Bernie on the ticket.

    I’m sure Morning Broseph only has the Democrats best interests at heart in pushing the notion that HRC should put the shouty old socialist and his personal baggage on her ticket.

  103. 103.

    rikyrah

    June 2, 2016 at 9:22 am

    @C.S.Strowbridge:

    How does Jeff Weaver still have a job? Does Sanders really not understand the damage he’s done to his campaign?

    All about the grift.
    The grift.

  104. 104.

    Percysowner

    June 2, 2016 at 9:23 am

    @different-church-lady: Booker has the same negative that Sherrod Brown and Elizabeth Warren do, a Republican governor. In this case it’s, I lick Donald Trump’s boots, Chris Christie, so that could be a problem.

  105. 105.

    rikyrah

    June 2, 2016 at 9:25 am

    @Baud:

    That was nothing compared to what going on with Sanders and Trump. Amazing.

    I never thought a Democrat would ever pull it. It wasn’t in things that Dems do.

    Once the MSM covered for Willard in 2012 and the tax thing, I knew Trump would never release his.

  106. 106.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    June 2, 2016 at 9:26 am

    @Kay: I don’t find Clinton’s “free college” argument at all persuasive and I think it was a mistake by her campaign.

    What did they say about it?

    @rikyrah: I thought free and quality pre-school is far more bang for the buck.

    Childless here and no expert on education from either side (how much it costs or how much it benefits kids– so I’m like most voters, I suspect), but I’m inclined to a agree, and look what a hard sell that it.

  107. 107.

    hovercraft

    June 2, 2016 at 9:27 am

    .@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
    Trump got away with all his lies and insanity during the primary because it was a big field. Now that it’s down to two candidates he is in for a rude awakening. He used to say and do stupid stuff in order to dominate the news cycle. Now every step he takes and every move he makes will be dissected. Now that his media interactions are no longer on his terms, he’s not enjoying it as much. The negativity is now being focused on just two people. Remember back in 2008 when Hillary kept saying Obama got nothing but kisses from the media, but once the general started they turned on him. Expect to see a lot more unhinged Trump, the gloves are off now. There is no way to punish the pack sufficiently to force them to back off. They loved the spectacle of him, and many still do, but now the in depth reporters (the few left) not just the political hacks are in on the chase. It’s a whole new ball game.

  108. 108.

    hovercraft

    June 2, 2016 at 9:32 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA:
    He’s just trying to mess with the dems. make it so that when she doesn’t pick him the BS supporters are unhappy. After schilling for Trump all these months he has an investment to protect. Stir up as much turmoil with the dems and who knows he could become the next secretary of I’m not sure what, but something.

  109. 109.

    Bostondreams

    June 2, 2016 at 9:32 am

    @Kay:

    There are issues in Ohio with the dual enrollment courses. It’s not free for the public schools that have to pay for the books and the courses. http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2016/06/01/school-districts-want-to-lessen-load-of-programs-cost.html

  110. 110.

    PurpleGirl

    June 2, 2016 at 9:35 am

    @Germy: That’s when you need to know a good small print shop that can do the fliers probably — offset printing of black paper with colored inks. (ETA: Or realize that a black background can be unreadable.)

    I also had to fight off the people who wanted colored printers. I kept telling them it’s not the price of the printer (in fact by the 1990s colored printers had become very reasonable) but it’s the COST of the INK/TONER.

  111. 111.

    rikyrah

    June 2, 2016 at 9:36 am

    @debbie:

    David Cay Johnston has been doing exactly that for a while.

    He is the truth, when discussing folks taxes and what they are hiding.

  112. 112.

    hovercraft

    June 2, 2016 at 9:38 am

    @Patricia Kayden:
    Agreed, my junior senator needs to stay right where he is. Besides the Christie issue, there is also that he tends to follow the Menendez foreign policy, he played coy with the Iran deal and waited till the very end to jump on board. Not a show of leadership, even if we do have a large Jewish population, he could have shown more courage and still would have been safe.

  113. 113.

    AnderJ

    June 2, 2016 at 9:46 am

    No one else is seeing this grey area where an image is supposed to be at the top of the post (not the transcript of the interview between Matthews and Weaver)? Can I give any of you guys whatever I apparently have been smoking? Maybe someone see the images can tell me what I should see…

  114. 114.

    Kay

    June 2, 2016 at 9:46 am

    @rikyrah:

    Democrats should own public education as an issue, and they don’t. This is a Right wing county and we have free public preschool thru the school system. It is wildly popular. They could be much more progressive on education and still be well within the mainstream. I don’t know how they managed to let Kasich get to the Left of them on “free college”.

  115. 115.

    rikyrah

    June 2, 2016 at 9:46 am

    @Kay:

    Democrats rank public education (as an issue) much higher than Republicans do. I’m obviously biased but I would love if state Democrats focused there – they must have polling that Republicans are vulnerable on it because they’re all talking about it.

    I actually like Connie Pillich but Cordray could be great- he could eventually be President.

    Cordray seems like a very good guy. I hope he runs.

  116. 116.

    rikyrah

    June 2, 2016 at 9:48 am

    @different-church-lady:

    Booker is often mentioned by political pundits as a contender…
    Which pretty much guarantees it won’t be Booker.

    Lord, I hope not.

  117. 117.

    Kay

    June 2, 2016 at 9:55 am

    @Bostondreams:

    Sure, I know it’s not “free”. It’s popular, though, and it’s popular with people who are panicking about their kids affording college. I could sell additional public school funding here to subsidize it. They would vote for it. One of the women who works here has a whole plan for her eldest son. They cannot afford college and they don’t want to load him up with debt. She can conceivably cut costs in half if he does one year in high school and another at a community college. First generation college are not shooting for Harvard. They’re realistic.

  118. 118.

    Matt McIrvin

    June 2, 2016 at 9:55 am

    @Kay:

    The county Democrats here, the central committee, genuinely believe Sanders can’t win a general. They think a third term for any Democrat is difficult enough and Sanders will lose. I suppose they are “the establishment” but they’re hardly DC powerbrokers and this is what they believe to a man (or woman). Sanders refuses to engage with that, and Obama DID engage with rank and file doubts- Obama did this whole “validation” effort where he persuaded them he could win a general.

    The Sanders campaign has one, fairly strong argument there, which is that they do better against Trump in head-to-head polls–much better, in fact, these days.

    Now, there are obvious objections to that argument: you can make a case for various reasons that Sanders’ approval and head-to-head numbers would drop rapidly if he were the frontrunner. But the Sanders team seems to just hammer on the polling point as if that ought to be enough for you.

    It’s kind of like the way they insist African-Americans should vote for them because Hillary said “superpredators” and economic justice, instead of finding out what African-Americans are actually looking for in a presidential candidate.

  119. 119.

    Gin & Tonic

    June 2, 2016 at 10:01 am

    @AnderJ: It’s supposed to be a link to an MSNBC video that shows both Weaver and Frank on Hardball. Find it here http://player.theplatform.com/p/7wvmTC/MSNBCEmbeddedOffSite?guid=n_hardball_dems_160601

    I’m not going to wade too deep into the code to figure out why it’s not showing, but it is just gray space for me under both Chrome and Firefox in Windows.

  120. 120.

    Kay

    June 2, 2016 at 10:01 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    She said “middle class” would be paying for “Donald Trumps” kids to go to college. I paid for preschool for my kids. If I had a preschooler now it would be free. “Middle class” would be paying for it. It’s a ludicrous argument for a Democrat. It comes back immediately to bite her. The whole reason public education works as far as funding is we get richer parents to vote to support poorer parents. That is literally what we do here and we have 50% free and reduced lunch. Richer parents vote in higher numbers. We say “we have to get the west side on board”. My neighborhood. They are on board because their kids go to that school too.

    Who gets hurt if I make Clinton’s argument for public education? Not Donald Trump.

  121. 121.

    El Caganer

    June 2, 2016 at 10:02 am

    @Another Holocene Human: Why, that’s the solution! She should ask Chris Christie to be her running mate! Reach across the aisle, big tent, all that good shit.

  122. 122.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    June 2, 2016 at 10:06 am

    Huh, a rare sighting of journalism in the wild. Thought it was extinct.

  123. 123.

    rikyrah

    June 2, 2016 at 10:09 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    The Republican would have a field day with Bernie:

    I already said that all one of the GOP SuperPacs would have to do is to buy up all the billboard space in swing states.

    Can YOU AFFORD to elect Bernie Sanders?

    Check out the Vox Bernie Tax Calculator.

    Give the website addy.

    That’s it.

    I took the Bernie Vox challenge, and found out that I’d be paying $6,000 more in taxes.

    middle class ME.

    That’s $500 /month.

    And, I actually AGREE with what he wants to spend the money on.

    another SuperPac could piggyback and do Ads of people taking the Vox Bernie Tax Calculator challenge.

    Just watching the faces of these ‘regular folks’ as they see how much Bernie would cost them.

    The.election.would.be.DONE.

  124. 124.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    June 2, 2016 at 10:14 am

    @rikyrah: and that’s just domestic policy. Trump’s strong-and-wrong message has more appeal than the VSPs want to admit, and people who want more war here and abroad know it.

    speaking of which, I’ll say what Andrew Kaczynski and others on twitter are only hinting, to wit, that Amy Chozik is a bad reporter

    In an interview Wednesday night, Mr. Trump criticized Mrs. Clinton’s early support for the Iraq war, which he said he opposed, and questioned her judgment in Libya. “Bernie Sanders said it and I’m going to use it all over the place because it’s true,” Mr. Trump said. “She is a woman who is ill-suited to be president because she has bad judgment.”

    Trump is lying when he says he opposed the Iraq War, and IIRC he was also calling for Obama to “do something” about Kaddafi

  125. 125.

    Paul in KY

    June 2, 2016 at 10:23 am

    @rikyrah: Best wishes to you!

  126. 126.

    Paul in KY

    June 2, 2016 at 10:24 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Those scumwads will still vote for him, though.

  127. 127.

    Paul in KY

    June 2, 2016 at 10:26 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: How about ‘self inflicted drama’?

  128. 128.

    NonyNony

    June 2, 2016 at 10:33 am

    @Matt McIrvin:

    But the Sanders team seems to just hammer on the polling point as if that ought to be enough for you.

    It’s because his campaign higher ups are a bunch of his buddies who have run his House campaigns in the past and don’t know how to handle a national campaign. They don’t think about what other people think of their candidate – they know he’s a great guy and so everyone should just see it.

    Now I kind of dread what would have happened to him had he actually won the nomination. The Clinton campaign stayed off of anything remotely personal about him and just restricted their campaign against him to critiques of how half-baked his plans were. Had he won the nomination he would have been personally destroyed by the GOP by November – they would not have gone easy on the personal hits and it’s starting to look like his wife’s finances and his own tax records might turn out to be the feet of clay that could have gotten him crushed.

    (Honestly they were right about the half-baked plans too – one of the biggest missed opportunities in this campaign is that Sanders threw out a whole slew of “Big Ideas” but had no plans really laid out on how to implement them. His whole campaign ends up being a wasted opportunity because serious plans would get taken seriously at this point given the size of his support base. Now it will likely fall by the wayside – the best we could hope for is that a few of his “Big Ideas” will catch on as slogan-type things and get picked up for wider support, but nobody is going to be pushing a specific plan and that’s a shame. I voted for him for the Big Ideas, but you need more than Big Ideas to build a movement.)

  129. 129.

    Matt McIrvin

    June 2, 2016 at 10:40 am

    @NonyNony: I’ve heard similar things from advocates for people with disabilities and, separately, from advocates for people with HIV: the Sanders campaign won’t listen to them, they just decide on certain policy positions and then insist that this ought to be enough for the movement to get on board. I suppose if you’re suspicious of candidates playing to “the special interests”, this might be heartening, but the pattern seems to apply to everyone.

  130. 130.

    John D

    June 2, 2016 at 10:42 am

    @Percysowner:

    You could also get a contested convention where one candidate had more delegates and the other had more votes, due to the nature of caucuses vs. primaries

    You really can’t, because the rules say only one of those things actually count.

    You can have a lot of bitching about them, but that is not a contested convention.

  131. 131.

    Matt McIrvin

    June 2, 2016 at 10:43 am

    btw, Edward Snowden is now snarking on Twitter about how he violated classification rules for the common good but Hillary did it for “personal gain”. Bernie supporters passing it around with approval.

  132. 132.

    Paul in KY

    June 2, 2016 at 10:43 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: If you’re actually a ‘billionaire’.

  133. 133.

    lollipopguild

    June 2, 2016 at 10:45 am

    @El Caganer: You have the guy who carries the football(Launch codes) and Christie can be the guy who carries the oreos.

  134. 134.

    Paul in KY

    June 2, 2016 at 10:46 am

    @Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: Can’t they control his communications better? Or xfer him to supermax?

  135. 135.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    June 2, 2016 at 10:46 am

    @Matt McIrvin: If you remember his hand-waving dismissal of Trump’s comments on abortion, the way I read it was, this is a settled issues in Bernie’s mind, therefore a settled issue unworthy of discussion, a mere distraction from the question of millionaires and billionaires. Which I imagine would come as news to abortion rights’ advocates around the country. Also, I will bang this drum again, one of many issues that is not explained by Bernie The Hedgehog’s one simple Truth.

  136. 136.

    Paul in KY

    June 2, 2016 at 10:49 am

    @bemused: Matt Tiabbi had a RS article recently where he said about the Repub convention (paraphrasing):

    If it is not Liberace meets Stalin meets Elmer Gantry, I’ll be disappointed.

  137. 137.

    Paul in KY

    June 2, 2016 at 10:53 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: That’s even leaving alone all the old commie stuff. I said a few weeks ago, creating oppo ads for a hypothetical Bernie general election campaign is probably the most fun job at GOP Evil Lair HQ.

  138. 138.

    Cacti

    June 2, 2016 at 10:54 am

    @Kay:

    I don’t find Clinton’s “free college” argument at all persuasive and I think it was a mistake by her campaign. It defies reality. “Free college” is spreading and it’s wildly popular. It’s elitist and clueless to think “college” means 4 years away at university. That isn’t what it means to tens of millions of lower income people. They go to community colleges or they commute.

    Meanwhile, data show that free university education in Scotland has amounted to what critics have suggested it would be in the United States…

    A trickle-up benefit accruing primarily to the children of the affluent.

  139. 139.

    El Caganer

    June 2, 2016 at 10:55 am

    @lollipopguild: Forget Bridgegate – Tailgate!

  140. 140.

    Cacti

    June 2, 2016 at 10:58 am

    @Patricia Kayden:

    We would also hear about how Bernie is a big, bad, scary Socialist. Most of the populace wouldn’t understand the difference between a Socialist and a Democratic Socialist, which is what Sanders calls himself.

    Bernie’s prior praise for undemocratic Marxist regimes in the western hemisphere wouldn’t exactly help his case that he’s the good kind of socialist.

  141. 141.

    Miss Bianca

    June 2, 2016 at 11:00 am

    @Matt McIrvin: that little piss-ant. He can stay in Russia as a “martyr to truth” till he rots. If Putin doesn’t decide to off him, first, once his “useful idiot” sell-by date is reached.

  142. 142.

    Callisto

    June 2, 2016 at 11:15 am

    @Another Holocene Human:

    I am the mini expert on this subject because I believe my mother has NPD. She also has comorbid depression. Unlike Trump, she has not been in her own mind successful and gave up on projecting consistently the false persona. However, her need/rage cycle is classic NPD. When you grow up with a parent who is incapable of loving you, that’s pretty profound. She fundamentally doesn’t love herself (although she indulges herself plenty), so how can she love anyone else?

    She sounds a little borderline, from what you’re saying. BPD has a high comorbidity with depression, and unfortunately is a pretty difficult disorder to live alongside and to treat.

  143. 143.

    Aimai

    June 2, 2016 at 11:18 am

    @Kay: because it doesnt matter. No one except people in Ohio gives a fuck what kasich is doing and he is otherwise crashing the economy. Free college courses for highschoolers means zip in the clusterfuck that is every other republican policy on the economy. Its not left/right. There are clusters of issues. Its complicated.

  144. 144.

    different-church-lady

    June 2, 2016 at 11:19 am

    @Jack the Second: At least one of them is an ethos.

  145. 145.

    Aimai

    June 2, 2016 at 11:33 am

    @Kay: no it didnt “bite her” because she is winning handily. Nothing that gets said at this point of the primary matters in the least except bernies attacks on the entire party and all its voters. A totally minor tactical discussion of how to make quality education more affordable simply isnt a big enough deal to cassandra about. At this time in 2008 obama and hillary had life and death/sky is falling arguments about the mandate. But when obama got in he flipped and adopted her position. If you find that you are having this argument with voters then what I always say is “we democrats are spoiled for choice. All of our candidates have great plans to improve peoples’ lives. Its a GREAT problem to have!”

  146. 146.

    SiubhanDuinne

    June 2, 2016 at 11:37 am

    @AnderJ:

    I’m not seeing anything there either. Don’t know if it’s supposed to be a text box, still image, video, or what.

    IOW, there’s the thread title (date, time stamp, author, comments counter), then a big blank area, then It is one of the small proud moments of my life that I actually got to vote for Barney Frank, once. “Why the chip, Jeff?” I assume something is missing but no idea what. Safari, iPad.

  147. 147.

    SiubhanDuinne

    June 2, 2016 at 11:39 am

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Thanks. Didn’t see this until I had already replied to AnderJ at #147.

  148. 148.

    LAC

    June 2, 2016 at 11:41 am

    @Kay: I’m sorry – who considers her better on public education?

  149. 149.

    Kay

    June 2, 2016 at 12:09 pm

    @Aimai:

    It’s a mistake for a Democrat to take something like free public education and turn it into “middle class people paying for Donald Trump’s kids”. Come on, Aimai. That argument applies to high school and pre-k too. It was USED in the United States to oppose free public high schools. It was a dumb tactic. It’s the flip side of conservatives telling people public programs only benefit poor people. This isn’t how Democrats set up the argument.

    I listened to Obama’s town hall last night. HE makes the “two years of free college” pitch, so it isn’t just Ohio.

    I’m actually excited about Clinton and education. Obama was terrible. She’ll be better but “free college” is coming and I would prefer Democrats not be on the wrong side because Bernie Sanders said it and Clinton needed a spiffy line at a rally. She knows better. In a decade it’ll be the first two years free. Not at Harvard or the selective publics. At the schools MOST first generation college students attend.

  150. 150.

    Kay

    June 2, 2016 at 12:20 pm

    @Aimai:

    Last night the President said that he took the savings from getting banks out of student loans and put it toward Pell Grants. I can tell you what every parent who makes 40k a year in that room was thinking “he did nothing for my kid and I can’t afford college either”.

    It’s Democrats 101. You include middle class people in public programs because 1. they need them and 2. they are the political protection for poor people. Maybe Donald Trump’s children will use free college. What about the 70% of Americans who don’t have a college degree? It’s so vitally important I ensure he not get I’m going to argue against the interests of tens of millions? That’s nuts.

  151. 151.

    Brachiator

    June 2, 2016 at 12:40 pm

    @Keith G:

    In actuality, Sanders is not a big-time political thinker or a big-time political leader. He never thought his campaign was going to get this far so he never reached out and acquired the type of first-rate minds needed to run a successful campaign. Weaver is prime evidence.

    Odd that people keep saying this about Trump and Sanders, that they are just accidental candidates who had no idea that their little joke campaigns would ever take off.

    What, does this make Clinton the only “real” candidate?

    @Cacti:

    Meanwhile, data show that free university education in Scotland has amounted to what critics have suggested it would be in the United States…

    A trickle-up benefit accruing primarily to the children of the affluent

    Thanks for the link to this. It’s sad that the predictable result so emphatically came to pass.

  152. 152.

    AnderJ

    June 2, 2016 at 12:41 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: Thanks!

  153. 153.

    different-church-lady

    June 2, 2016 at 12:53 pm

    @Cacti: At some point we, as a society, need to have a serious examination regarding the expectations of higher learning, the costs involved, and how institutions and employers have gamed the system by manipulating and exploiting the insecurities of young people and their parents.

    The seriousness of this need pretty much guarantees the examination will not take place.

  154. 154.

    tastytone

    June 2, 2016 at 12:54 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: You just transported me back to my 7:30am Type As Image class, complete with little plastic pica ruler. Can’t say I’m grateful. (Cool post–1st I’d heard about the multi-colored Faulkner.)

  155. 155.

    different-church-lady

    June 2, 2016 at 12:55 pm

    @NonyNony:

    The Clinton campaign stayed off of anything remotely personal about him and just restricted their campaign against him to critiques of how half-baked his plans were.

    That woman knows how to keep her powder dry.

  156. 156.

    Kay

    June 2, 2016 at 1:20 pm

    I worry about Bernie Sanders judgment believing that Weaver is at all an appealing or persuasive advocate. He’s just horrible. I feel like he’s objectively horrible and anyone would know that.

  157. 157.

    J R in WV

    June 2, 2016 at 1:33 pm

    @rikyrah:

    Hillary Clinton’s position of “free college” is that the first two years of community college should be free or very low cost. My personal take is that educational loans for real colleges (NOT for-profit colleges!) should be interest free, with just enough tacked on to pay for management of the college loan program, by the government.

    Right now the federal government’s borrowing is cost free. College loans should not be a profit center for banks, they should make their profit from other profitable businesses and well-to-do people using credit to travel and such.

  158. 158.

    The Moar You Know

    June 2, 2016 at 1:40 pm

    At some point we, as a society, need to have a serious examination regarding the expectations of higher learning, the costs involved, and how institutions and employers have gamed the system by manipulating and exploiting the insecurities of young people and their parents.

    The seriousness of this need pretty much guarantees the examination will not take place.

    @different-church-lady: Yes, we surely do. My workplace requires every employee be degreed. We’re a tech services company. At best, maybe 20% of our people actually need to have done any college at all, and that number would go down to zero if there were reasonably competent tech schools teaching the relevant material. NOBODY needed any of the humanities courses that comprise the vast bulk of anyone’s college education, myself included.

    I’m glad to have had some of them, because I consider the subject matter of interest, but I easily could have bought a few books and just learned it all myself. I didn’t need to spend tens of thousands of dollars to do so, and they didn’t even do a very good job of teaching the stuff I found of interest. And again, NONE of it was needed or ever has been for my job.

    Glad my parents paid for it, back in the day. I wouldn’t have. And I’d be fucked and in poverty, because the piece of paper is the ticket in.

  159. 159.

    Matt McIrvin

    June 2, 2016 at 1:51 pm

    @The Moar You Know:

    My workplace requires every employee be degreed. We’re a tech services company.

    That is crazy. Some of the best software engineers I know lack bachelor’s degrees.

  160. 160.

    Monala

    June 2, 2016 at 1:54 pm

    @Cacti: Scanning it over, I’m gathering it’s because the free education covers tuition, but not room and board and books. Those are the costs that often make higher ed prohibitive the lower-income students, even when tuition is free. So they can’t go to college, and upper income kids now go for free.

    For programs that let high school kids take classes and earn credits at community colleges, the room and board question is moot. (Although books might not be – per Bostondreams’ comment above).

  161. 161.

    Monala

    June 2, 2016 at 1:58 pm

    @Kay: Don’t you think the message should be “free community college’ and not, “free college”? Because 4-year college is what a lot of people hear when they hear the latter. IIRC, Obama has always said, “free community college” and Sanders just, “Free college.” (When he gets specific, he says at public colleges and universities, but to my knowledge, he has never specified community or technical college. He gives the impression that he means 4-year schools).

  162. 162.

    Cacti

    June 2, 2016 at 2:03 pm

    @The Moar You Know:

    Yes, we surely do. My workplace requires every employee be degreed. We’re a tech services company. At best, maybe 20% of our people actually need to have done any college at all, and that number would go down to zero if there were reasonably competent tech schools teaching the relevant material. NOBODY needed any of the humanities courses that comprise the vast bulk of anyone’s college education, myself included.

    Even in professions like law and medicine, the U.S. System adds an extra tier of education expenses that other first world nations have shown to be unnecessary. In the U.S. you have to complete a bachelor’s degree prior to admission in a graduate program for law or medicine, virtually guaranteeing 6-figure education debt by the time you finish a JD or MD program. In the UK and commonwealth countries, lawyers get a bachelor of laws, physicians get a bachelor of medicine or a bachelor of surgery. Graduate degrees in each discipline are strictly research or academic degrees.

  163. 163.

    The Moar You Know

    June 2, 2016 at 2:05 pm

    That is crazy. Some of the best software engineers I know lack bachelor’s degrees.

    @Matt McIrvin: I agree. The best one I know did not finish high school. The second-best one I know has a degree – in theology.

  164. 164.

    J R in WV

    June 2, 2016 at 2:50 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Just blank space for me with up-to-date Firefox running on Ubuntu 14.04, also up-to-date lacking a new security update that appeared a few minutes ago.

  165. 165.

    Elie

    June 2, 2016 at 3:11 pm

    @hovercraft:

    He used to say and do stupid stuff in order to dominate the news cycle. Now every step he takes and every move he makes will be dissected. Now that his media interactions are no longer on his terms, he’s not enjoying it as much

    Totally. Add to that he has a shit campaign organization with level b or c operatives and then he wants to do it all himself because he fundamentally doesn’t trust anyone. He will be ever more exhausted and say dumber and dumber things from which he will not be able to wiggle free from. This whole vet thing is just a small example. Every issue is going to have hundreds of media examining in detail. To me, one of the most damaging “stories” evolving on Trump is that he really isn’t as rich as he says and the media is starting to triangulate the dimensions of that… As I said, making him look weak is what will hurt him — AND the fact that he is his own worst enemy by far…

  166. 166.

    SFAW

    June 2, 2016 at 3:14 pm

    @The Moar You Know:

    The second-best one I know has a degree – in theology.

    Because he needs divine intervention to ensure his code runs?

  167. 167.

    Original Lee

    June 2, 2016 at 3:50 pm

    @Kay: However, it’s still up to the 4-year college or university he attends whether or not to accept the credits. One of my nieces specifically looked for a school that would accept her credits so that she could skip a year of paying for college, and she found one with a reasonable nursing program, so she will be able to start as a sophomore in the fall. So, yay! BUT one of my nephews, who was in a similar program at a different high school, is only getting credit for one of his courses because he is going into a very specialized subject area and the college he can afford is being snooty about the college credits he earned in high school.

    Not to mention, I know of several young people who are trying to get into occupational therapy programs, and all of the schools they are looking at are being snooty about what they are accepting in terms of credits and other qualifications. One young lady has to re-take differential calculus this summer as part of her conditional acceptance because she got a B in the class, and she needs at least a B+ . Just the schools’ way of making sure they’re extracting as much juice from the orange as they can, and that will continue, I think, even if the first two years of tertiary education are free or low cost.

  168. 168.

    DCF

    June 2, 2016 at 4:56 pm

    Wow, Anne…smh…just WOW….
    First you praise MSNBC Tweety for pursuing the tax returns of a man whose net worth is less than half a million dollars. Subsequently, you denigrate the proposed ‘activist’ approach of a Democratic presidential candidate – a path abandoned by OFA in the wake of President Obama’s inauguration, to his (later) expressed regret….
    I’m increasingly thankful for blog sites like Booman Tribune, Democratic Underground, Common Dreams and the like…if it were left to select BJ front pagers, aspiration for widespread systemic change (rather than inadequate incrementalism regarding, say, climate change) would cease to exist, for all intents and purposes….

  169. 169.

    Jonothan

    June 2, 2016 at 6:37 pm

    @AnderJ:

    Try this link

    http://www.democraticunderground.com/1107152178

  170. 170.

    satby

    June 2, 2016 at 7:11 pm

    @The Moar You Know: @Matt McIrvin: I was constantly promoted in IT for almost 20 years, then after I was laid off I couldn’t get another job in it and I know in several cases it was because a degree was mandatory. Didn’t even have to be a computer science degrees, any old BA with my experience would have landed me a job. It’s really a racket.

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