It’s almost over:
Hillary Clinton will win the Puerto Rico Democratic primary, according to a CNN projection, putting her on the cusp of clinching the party’s presidential nomination.
Clinton is not expected to win all 60 delegates that were at stake Sunday, which would have put her over the top in the nomination battle against rival Bernie Sanders. She remains shy of the 2,383 she needs to win the Democratic nomination.Clinton is closing in on a historic nomination as the first female presidential nominee with one more round of states — California, New Jersey, New Mexico, South Dakota and Montana — set to vote Tuesday. Her nomination would become official during the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia.
She’ll become the first-ever female nominee of a major political party.
I’m hoping she clubs him like a baby seal in California and New Jersey. I don’t want him defeated anymore. I want him humiliated.
PaulWartenberg2016
I’m hearing California is close but that Jersey is in the bag for Hills.
redshirt
Once you’ve Berned there’s no going back.
Major Major Major Major
Who’s Bernie Sanders?
ruemara
The Sanders campaign requesting to reduce the amount of polling stations is a biiter thing for me to learn. That’s simply wrong.
redshirt
Bernie’s Senate seat is up in 2018. I’d love to support someone to run against him.
hovercraft
Cruel blog master, I thought this was a safe place for animal lovers.
PaulWartenberg2016
Hillary is leading Bernie 58 to 37 in New Jersey.
elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-new-jersey-democratic-presidential-primary
That is reportedly going to net her the delegate count she needs.
California is 48 for Hillary 44 for Bernie, so it’ll be close there.
Baud
WSJ has an article that the Samders team is split on what to do after Tuesday. Weaver, of course, is leading the charge to continue to the convention.
Major Major Major Major
@redshirt: Wasn’t Al Giordano threatening to?
hovercraft
@PaulWartenberg2016:
She’s up more than 20 points here, CA is a toss-up in current polls but she’s up 17 points in the early vote.
PaulWartenberg2016
@ruemara:
They’re trying the Bernie Math of “Anything to make it look like there’s a REVOLUTION taking place to SAVE PROGRESSIVE AMERICA!”
Even if it means lying to themselves as much as to everyone else.
trollhattan
Hillary speaking now, laying the wood to Donald, covering policy. Bernie not a topic
Emerald
Most of us in California have already voted. I’ll be astonished if Bernie has any chance here at all. We have a large Latino population, and no, Bernie is not going to win them. He lost them bigtime everywhere else, and he isn’t going to win them here.
However, we do allow “decline-to-state” voters into our Democratic primary, and there is supposed to be a push to get Trump fans to vote for Bernie.
So that might happen. We’ll see if it does anything.
redshirt
@Major Major Major Major: He might actually be doing it, but he’s not a serious candidate. I’m sure there’s a ton of awesome Dems in Vermont. Maybe one of them can run against Sanders in a primary.
satby
Right there with you John. I have never developed the kind of contempt for a so-called “progressive” politician ostensibly on our side that I have for #crybabyBernie
Amir Khalid
@ruemara:
Why was the request granted? I would have told the Bernie campaign, “If you can’t get hold of enough poll watchers, too bad. We’re not going to inconvenience the voting public for you.”
Anya
I am glad I am not the only one who wants Bernie humiliated. I am sick of him. I went from “I really like Bernie. I am glad he’s running” to “get the fuck out and stop saying nonsense.” I reached my limit when he tried to step on Hillary’s evisceration of the Vulgarian. The fucker couldn’t even say “yes. Hillary is right on Trump!” before he started his tired anti-Hillary talking points.
Emerald
@redshirt: Al Giordano is going to run against him. Watch Al’s Twitter feed.
It isn’t official yet, but if Bernie keeps behaving the way Bernie has been behaving, Al will run.
Fun fact: Al has lots of experience organizing in Vermont and knows how to do that. Bernie disdains organizing.
Also, historically, high approval for home candidates who lose a national race sometimes collapse. See: Dukakis, Michael and Nixon, Richard.
Gin & Tonic
This Klay Thompson is on fire.
OT, sure, but Cole won’t ever put up a hoop thread.
gf120581
@Baud: Devine wants to keep working in the party, so naturally, he’s being the voice of sanity. Comic Book Guy, on the other hand, is being the overgrown child throwing a tantrum, much like his boss.
MomSense
@redshirt:
He has long standing ties in VT from anti nuke organizing. I think he is kidding but it would be so great if he actually challenged Sanders. I would definitely take some vacation time to knock on doors for him.
Ken
@Baud:
Odd, if I look at the words one at a time, I see them, but when I read the whole sentence at once it becomes “Weaver, of course, is trying to keep his paychecks coming for another month.”
trollhattan
Covering her Senate record, bipartisan legislation.
Anya
@Baud: Since Weaver is a comic guy, I think he’s looking for his Flashpoint Paradox moment.
jayboat
@Gin & Tonic:
Golden State is killing it. Up by 20 at the end of the third.
sparrow
Seriously? You want to primary one of the best progressive voices in the senate (right up there with your gal Liz Warren) for daring to compete in an election? Against the corporate-approved candidate? Have you lost your damned minds? I’m finished with Balloon Juice. It was a cesspool of neoliberalism even at the best of times, but I’ve got better places to go for dissenting opinion. You guys have lost your minds. Enjoy the last election your shitty generation has left in it.
gf120581
@Anya: That seems to be a common thing with folks concerning Bernie. Count me in as another, though I’m more amused at the sight of a seventy-something man acting like a five year old acting out because he didn’t get the toy he wanted.
It’s kinda of sad, really. He could have used his successes to build a genuine movement, get other folks elected, push his views, that kind of thing. Instead, he’s pissing it all away and is dangerously close to being reduced to a powerless pariah. How he reacts after Hillary clinches on Tuesday may well be what either preserves or destroys what legacy he has left.
Karen
@ruemara:
I’m not sure what you mean. They’re trying to make it HARDER to vote? Why?
magurakurin
@Major Major Major Major: yes. It seems from his twitter feed that he is actually serious about it, too. I’ll send Al money, for sure. No matter what Sanders does now, he will never be redeemed in my mind. I will be relieved he goes out and stumps for Hillary, but it won’t change my opinion of him.
Karen
@gf120581:
Come on, you know he’s not gonna be gracious about any of this.
magurakurin
@Amir Khalid: I have no idea for real, but if Armando is to be believed, a lot has to do with internal PR political squabbles.
amk
he has made the word progressive a poison even to those on the left. good job, bs.
Corner Stone
@Gin & Tonic:
This is brutal. Like an HRC speech against the con man Donald.
Howard Beale IV
Well, Cole did say Baby Seal….
John Cole
@sparrow: I don’t want to primary him. I honestly don’t expect him to run again in 2018.
dmsilev
@Karen: It may be forced on him. I saw a mention somewhere (dKos, I think) that Obama would be in New York on Wednesday, likely to endorse Hillary. A symbolic, and rather forceful, passing of the torch.
qwerty42
I’m not going after Bernie; a lot of us have been on the losing side of these fights. 8 yrs ago, I was very much “C’mon, Hillz, it’s over”. And she was the one speaking from the NY delegation who proposed a suspension of the rules and the nomination of Barack Obama by acclamation. She was a hard fighter and a good soldier, and I think Bernie can do it too.
Ajabu
@Gin & Tonic:
We’ll make our own. Klay (& Steph) have stayed on fire for a long time now.
And when they’re not (like Game 1) the team is strong enough to take up the slack.
Strength in Numbers…
I love LeBron but my heart is definitely with GSW.
magurakurin
@Karen: The Sanders campaign had contended, apparently some weeks ago, that they were concerned about voter fraud because the PR count is down entirely by hand. There needs to be a monitor from each of the campaigns. Originally there were to be some 1500 polling stations on the Island, but because the Sanders campaign couldn’t find 1500 volunteers to be present during the election the number was negotiated down to 400 something. But it does seem that there is local Island politics playing a part in it all as well. Still, it’s just another sad chapter in a sad little man’s losing campaign.
Corner Stone
@sparrow: GBCW and GFY
PatrickG
@ruemara: Source on that?
@Anya: +1
ETA: Thanks magurkin for some related info on the PR polling stations issue. It’s hard to sort through the Google results right now…
pseudonymous in nc
Honestly, now’s the time to just give Bernie the golf clap and tell him to go home; the institutional doors are going to slam shut as soon as the polls close in NJ on Tuesday, and I suspect that the handful of Sanders backers in Congress will lead the way, because they have their own campaigns to run.
Clinton slapped Trump silly, he’s stuck in the bind that Josh Marshall described where agressive counterattacks make him look thin-skinned and volatile, the press has finally decided to ask him hard kwestins. We know that the GOP nominee will get 44% no matter what, but Don the Con could be an open liability down ticket before they even get to the convention.
Gin & Tonic
@Corner Stone: Time to call the mercy rule.
dmsilev
@John Cole: Why wouldn’t he? Despite people’s natterings here, he’s very very popular in Vermont and could win an election with minimal effort. If nothing else, he’s made himself the John McCain of the left, the go-to guy for Sunday show bookers who want a Democrat who is apt to say nasty things about, well, anything.
magurakurin
@qwerty42:
As Bernie himself replied when asked if he would fund raise for down ballot Dem races, “We’ll see.”
geg6
I didn’t know that I’d be as excited to see Hilz get the nomination as I was to see Obama, but I am. As a woman, and one who has been through the gender wars since the ki-70s, I can’t tell you how moving the thought of a woman as the presidential nominee for the Democratic Party is starting to feel. I’ll be crying Tuesday and I’m not even close to a crier.
Yutsano
@John Cole: He’s already filed the paperwork to run as an independent in 2018. That makes him fair game.
trollhattan
Good speech, way more modulation than her sound bites. Point by point differentiation from Donald, now on gun violence.
Jeffro
@gf120581:
Yup. Someone should spell it out for him: it likely won’t be him running 8 years from now, but 8 years from now, whomever’s running on the D side could well be carrying a banner that’s about 99% Bernie into the 2024 election. Or he could sabotage the progress that’s been made to date and ensure that the 2024 D candidate looks more like Bill Clinton…or Walter Mondale…or…
Gvg
@ruemara: I don’t think I believe that. It’s not like he has much influence in PR. I think their money problems are the real cause. We are mostly pretty mad at Bernie and it’s too likely to be confirmation bias. I find it too unlikely though. Sure he isn’t acting well but I just can’t see why they would agree.
Gin & Tonic
@Ajabu: I don’t actually have a dog in this fight, but I’m enjoying watching a good spanking anyway.
dmsilev
@pseudonymous in nc: There was a poll released in California yesterday and one question it asked Sanders supporters whether they’d support him fighting on to the convention in the (likely) event of him finishing second in the pledged delegate race. 71% said “no, it’s over” and only 29% said “fight on”. If he does try to fight on, he’s going to lose a big big swath of his actual voters, and probably most or all of his announced superdelegate endorsements. As soon as the latter group start publicly bolting for the exits, that’s when I think reality will intrude itself.
Miss Bianca
@sparrow: sure. why not? Bernie is endorsing primary-ing candidates who don’t meet his purity tests, why can’t he be primaried in his turn? If he’s sufficiently pure, he’ll pass the test, right?
Tissue Thin Pseudonym
@jayboat:
Now 29. Once they got past OKC, I figured this was going to happen, because I’ve watched it up close. In 2013, the Gophers went into the NCAA tournament 38-0-0, and then looked nervous for the first time all year. They proceeded to go three OTs against North Dakota in the quarterfinals, and then looked sluggish against BC in the semi and had to go to overtime again.
Of course, they came out two nights later and just crushed BU to win the title. Sometimes, the pressure is actually less once you make the Finals, and I figured that would be true of the Warriors.
Adam L Silverman
@Anya: youtube.com/watch?v=giy6-Mw8Ilw
Also: “Gone, Gone the form of Man; Rise the Demon Etrigan!”
Lynn Sutherland
I saw your tweet gloating about Bernie being out of money, gloating that Hillary still had all that corporate cash coming in and that seniors, like myself, and young people had run out of money to give to his campaign. Now you want him and his ideas bashed like a baby seal even though those ideas would provide a far better country for the poor and the middle class. Do you know who Berta Caceres is, that she was murdered by the Honduras government that was installed by Hillary’s state department. Do you know that Hillary installed her own man in Haiti who proceeded to steal from an impoverished country? Do you care about what is happening to the Palestinians and you like supporting a brutal regime like Israel. You approve of Hillary selling Saudi Arabia US weapons to kill women and children in Yemen? Do you know what Hillary’s plans are for Syria? Do you care that fracking is contributing to global warming far more than oil is and this is Hillary’s energy method of choice? Go ahead and gloat now, John, and be prepared for what will happen when she is elected. I don’t visit your site any more, much as I miss all of your pets, especially the lovely Lily. It is too painful to see what you have become.
magurakurin
@sparrow: can we take this has a hard and fast promise or are you just teasing us?
And from your age comment, I’m guessing you are “young.” whatever that means. Kennedy was 42 when sworn in, Clinton 46 and Obama 47. Obama is a year older than me, he represents my generation. Where is the Kennedy, the Clinton, the Obama of your generation? Why is your generation following a man 40 to 50 years older than you?
Elie
@amk:
But I bet he has retired his campaign debts…
amk
@sparrow: Guess you conveniently forgot bs wanting to primary a popular sitting president? What goes around, comes around.
geg6
@geg6:
That should be “mid-70s”. I have no idea what autocorrect was doing there.
Mnemosyne
@hovercraft:
The polls in CA are so all over the place, I don’t know what to think. When the same time period(s) are showing +2 Clinton, +10 Clinton, and +18 Clinton, there’s something really weird going on.
schrodinger's cat
@sparrow: Still on the Berning Train?
amk
@magurakurin: Boom.
satby
It’s always so lovely when the so-called progressives come here to spout nonsense. At least Ms. Sutherland didn’t mention Vince Foster.
Corner Stone
@Lynn Sutherland: I honestly can’t remember the last time I saw the word gloat so much in an entire thread, much less one pathetic comment.
Yutsano
@Lynn Sutherland: Why are you speaking like a political neophyte? Does it not occur to you that the vast majority of those things happen in/can be stopped by Congress? Why are you so emotionally invested in a 30 year back bencher that has zero record of accomplishing, well, anything? Why are you not doing work to improve the Congressional balances? What the ever loving fuck do you expect Bernie to do without a Congress to go along with his plans, especially when he has such a poor record up until this point in actually working with his Congressional colleagues? Do you seriously not understand the limitations of Presidential power?
Shorter me: QUIT BEING STUPID!!! Bernie is not your Lord and Saviour.
Elie
@Mnemosyne:
Its an open primary so there IS a LOT of noise…
Emma
Jesus God, Cole. Way to start the fire.
geg6
@Lynn Sutherland:
You are ignorant but whatever. Just for one example of your stupid ignorance is stating that fracking is her energy policy of choice. This level of ignorance will not be missed so your GBCW packs no punch.
burnspbesq
@sparrow:
You won’t be missed. Sanders worked hard to earn all the hate he’s getting from actual Democrats. What goes around etc.
SiubhanDuinne
This is O/T, but I’d like to wish Ramadan Mubarak to Amir Khalid and all other Muslims who frequent this place. You all have my best wishes for a good fast and a joyful iftar with friends and family.
hovercraft
@dmsilev:
In ’08 most of the PUMA’s were kicking and screaming NoObama even than after the final primaries they quietly fell in line. As bitter as the Cruz and Rubio supporters were about Trump, most of them have quietly joined him, So even if Bernie wants to fight on I suspect that a lot of his support will quietly fall off after Tuesday. At some point in the near future he will turn around to find that he has a much smaller group following behind him. In the heat of battle everyone is gung ho but the reality of defeat will soon set in.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@Lynn Sutherland: Have some pancakes.
Miss Bianca
All right, what is it with this fucking crap about Hillary Clinton and Honduras? Is she and “her state department” supposed to have engineered the events of 2009? Or cheerled it? Or not done something -anything – to prevent it? What? All the rhetoric about it has had a strong whiff of bullshit, to me.
Major Major Major Major
This thread is fun.
ruemara
@sparrow: disenfranchising a bunch of people is progressive? Fuck you and your bullshit whine of neoliberalism. You need to look in a damned mirror. The Sanders campaign has dishonored what socialism, democracy and progressive meant for nearly it’s entire existence. I’m shamed to have ever thought he was a good legislator. Proof that you have to be careful of what you accept even when it’s coming from people you agree with.
You don’t have to believe me,.it’s a story from the hill, MSNBC, etc. Unlike some, I don’t bring up rumors. Unfortunately, I’m
dslak
@Lynn Sutherland: Bless your heart.
Ramping Up
Not so fast.
Bernie says its going to be a “contested convention”. Why oh why can’t the fearsome (lol) Hillary Clinton put away an aged Marxist from Vermont?
T-R-U-M-P is once again in the Catbird’s Seat as the Dem convention will degenerate into Black Bloc riots.
Ken
@Yutsano:
He did vote to confirm Hillary Clinton, the Butcher of Central America, as Secretary of State. That’s a kind of accomplishment.
weaselone
@Lynn Sutherland:
I expect it’s best for you that Bernie loses. That way, you won’t have to be disabused of his purity and goodness when he continues selling weapons to Saudi Arabia, supporting Israel and assassinating people with drones. You could also then continue to ignore his promises to bring back coal mining jobs and wouldn’t have to watch as the fracking continued.
Yutsano
@SiubhanDuinne: !رمضان مبارك
Elie
@SiubhanDuinne:
Me also!
Ramping Up
@sparrow:
Face it Sparrow, patriotic progressives like yourself will never be welcomed back into the fold. The Clinton Clique has hijacked your party and taking it for a twenty-four year long ride, and it looks like it’s not stopping any time soon.
What would FDR, Truman, Jack Kennedy or even LBJ think of Obama and Hillary?
pseudonymous in nc
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym:
But it’s also that the teams in the West have evolved in ways that the Eastern teams haven’t. The Cavs are playing a style that would have probably won the championship a few years ago, but the game has changed in front of their eyes.
GSW are like the version 2.0 of the Phoenix Suns from when Nash was in his prime. It’s Total Football on a basketball court.
Mnemosyne
@Elie:
I’m expecting a lot of prospective Bernie voters from the right will be shocked to discover that they did not register correctly and will not be able to get a Democratic ballot. This will, of course, all be part of Hillary’s evil voter suppression plan of making them follow the rules.
The Thin Black Duke
@Yutsano: Unfortunately, too many people believe that politics in the real world is an episode of “The West Wing”.
redshirt
@Lynn Sutherland: Hi Lynn,
Do you think other countries will want to work with our Trumpen Fuherer?
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@Ramping Up: And you too !
hovercraft
@Lynn Sutherland:
You do know that Obama is the president, right? No president is perfect and I don’t agree with every decision, but on balance I’m happy with him. In never never land I would be the most bestest president ever, but I live here in the real world where there are tradeoffs and imperfect humans.
schrodinger's cat
If you want to be a true disciple of St. Bernard of Vermont, one of the requirements is to call anyone with a dissenting opinion neo-liberal.
redshirt
@Ramping Up: 6.2/10 for good trolling. Using your enemies signs is key.
Yutsano
@Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap: I just had dinner. Now I want pancakes…
Emma
@Miss Bianca: If he doesn’t drown, he’s a witch! If he drowns… oops?
SiubhanDuinne
@Yutsano:
تباهى
:-P
dslak
@schrodinger’s cat: Don’t forget “shill!”
ruemara
I’m on mobile right now and covered in BBQ sauce from this roasted cauliflower. Apologies for no link, but I get beastly when I’m return from the gym. Kickboxing works up an appetite.
I join Siubhan in wishing all those whole celebrate a Happy Ramadan. May your fast of the body result in a feast of spirit.
hovercraft
@Mnemosyne:
Some also have BS winning the Latino vote. Who knows.
dmsilev
@Mnemosyne: They’ve already been whining about that (and a group of Sanders supporters actually tried a federal lawsuit a week or so ago). It never seems to dawn on the whiners that if you have declared no party preference and you want to vote in a party primary, you need to tell the registrar or poll worker that so that they can give you the proper ballot. It shouldn’t be very complicated, and I have very little sympathy for people whining about the fact that the local county registrar is not clairvoyant.
eemom
Don’t give a shit about Bernout anymore. All of my want is focused on that happening to Trump, BIG fucking time. I want him smashed, squashed, ground into dust, vaporized. Utterly and permanently DESTROYED.
Anya
@Adam L Silverman: Ha! Perfect.
Percysowner
@geg6: IKR. I was for Hillary in 2008, even though at the end I knew she was pushing too hard to beat Obama, but she came around and worked with him to get elected, then for him. I liked Bernie at first. Then I liked him putting progressive issues front and center. Then Hillary lost Michigan and it hit me. I’m 63 and I might never see a female nominee for President. Then Bernie got insulting and then he started acting worse than Hillary in 2008.
I’m not going to push to have him primaried. We need all the votes we can get in the Senate, so if he’ll caucus with the Democrats and give us votes on our side, let him stay as long as he wants. He can remain pure and independent, as long a he gives us the votes on the Supreme Court and the important issues. I’m practical that way.
schrodinger's cat
Neoliberals, I expect the comment count to be 500 when I get up tomorrow. 7am EST. Yes we can.
geg6
@Ramping Up:
LOLOLOLOLOL! You are a funny troll. As if you have a clue as to what FDR or JFK would have thought about anything. And FTR, any “true” Bernista would, if they had any knowledge of what JFK and FDR actually did, immediately call them warmongering, elitist sell outs and repudiate them on the spot just as they do Hillary. That’s why almost 100% of them are ignorant people who aren’t worth listening to.
hovercraft
@Major Major Major Major:
Imagine how much fun we’ll have Tuesday! Can’t wait.
Marc McKenzie
@redshirt: Then support this man: twitter.com/AlGiordano
dmsilev
@schrodinger’s cat: Also a ‘corrupt tool of the establishment’.
How this intersects with the Sanders strategy of convincing (establishment) super-delegates of his awesomeness is one of the great unsolved problems in the field of BernieMath.
Unabogie
@Lynn Sutherland: why do you Busters always throw out the same tired litany of bullshit? Do you think your lies are more convincing the hundredth time you tell them?
Yutsano
@dmsilev: Because MAGIC! Or something.
Marc McKenzie
@Emerald: Yep. Al is pretty serious about running against Sanders; he’s also sick of the crap Sanders supporters have thrown at both Obama and Hillary.
Emma
@Miss Bianca: here. It was the usual clusterfvck. Note the number of Latin American nations that split pro-con. But since the only opinion that matters anywhere in the world is the United States’, it’s Hillary’s fault.
Feh.
Mike J
@Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap: media.giphy.com/media/SxXKRsI6QG3nO/giphy.gif
Miss Bianca
@Emma: How did you know that the part I took out was “just like if you float, you’re a witch, but if you don’t, then you’re not!”?
Lynn Sutherland
I am 73 years old and have been a Democrat all of my life, mistakenly voted for Bill Clinton twice and Obama twice and will no longer be a part of the party of Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Chuck Schumer, Hillary Clinton and Wall Street and the war machine. A return to FDR’s policies would be enough for me but that is not going to happen. Can’t lend my support to these heinous policies anymore.
Elie
@Yutsano:
She aint “for real”. Its opera and she is playing a role..
@Lynn Sutherland:
Best wishes to you… No one asks you to comment here just because. If you feel this site no longer represents your views, by all means go. In the US we believe in different points of view. Did you expect we would all think just like you? Did you pay attention to what your fellow Bernie folks posted? Anyway, best wishes to you. We will not roll over to please some “nym” with some history or point of view that hurts our values and candidates. Not interested in making you feel better — interested in making Democratic progressive principles active in the US. We are not a personality cult for a 74 year old narcissist. Good luck with your next moves — Libertarian? Trump supporter?
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
This is funny.
Emma
@Miss Bianca: Perverse minds think alike?
Marc McKenzie
@sparrow: Cry me a bloody river. It’s this kind of hard-man posturing/petulance that’s turned off people who were originally looking favorably at Sanders (myself included). Why not read Giordano’s stuff and see why he came to the conclusion that he would consider running against Sanders? I trust Giordano a hell of a lot more than I trust Sanders; at least Giordano isn’t spouting the “Bernie or bust!”/burn it all down nonsense.
redshirt
@Lynn Sutherland: That was the last straw?
burnspbesq
@Miss Bianca:
It’s a steaming pile of nonsense, is what it is. Zelaya pissed all over the Honduran Constitution trying to amend it by extra-legal means in order to obtain the right to run for a second term. The army probably over-reacted, but there is not a scintilla of evidence of any U.S. involvement prior to teaming up with Arias (the President of Costa Rica) to try to achieve a negotiated resolution. Anyone who tells you otherwise (yes, dollared, I am looking directly at you) is either profoundly ignorant or has an agenda.
Elie
@Lynn Sutherland:
Goodbye, Lynn. Good luck in your non voter status or in supporting Donald.
(I am totally unimpressed by whiny people who think melodrama is what its about. We have a lot at stake that is not about YOU or Bernie. )
magurakurin
@Lynn Sutherland:
So, you would approve of circumventing Congress and arming Britain with the Lend Lease program, the interment of Japanese-Americans and the development of the atomic bomb?
got it.
Your version of history is a fairy tale you made up in your head.
hovercraft
@geg6:
Haven’t you heard JFK would be a republican if he were alive today. He’s popular so they’ve appropriated him. After Obama beat Hillary last time Clinton became a good president because he was popular.
dslak
@Lynn Sutherland: Which ethnicity should we put into camps when we’re re-implementing all of FDR’s policies?
Omnes Omnibus
@Lynn Sutherland:
Including the internment of Japanese citizens? All of our idols have clay feet.
hovercraft
@Lynn Sutherland:
Jill Stein awaits you.
magurakurin
@Elie:
or stay. Omnes and Cacti seem to enjoy playing with trolls quite a bit. And it keeps them from fighting with each other when there is a little mouse to play with.
geg6
@Elie:
Exactly. All these new Berniebro trolls and this dramatic GBCW from someone I’m pretty sureI’ve never seen here before just make me think, more and more, that they are some sort of lame attempt at ratfucking. If they aren’t, they are even more stupid than I imagined.
pluky
@sparrow: if one would strike at the king, strike to kill. welcome to politics child. did you think elected office came with lifetime tenure? it is one thing to be a sometimes useful gadfly in a side gallery of the court; quite another to attempt a play in the greater game at the expense of ones erstwhile allies. bernie made his move, and failed. the game goes on.
Anya
@hovercraft: 10-years from now, they will appropriate Obama and claim he governed as a republican.
Reggie Mantle
Atta boy. That attitude will really bring the former Bernie supporters running to Hillary.
Ya know, when I first started posting under this nym, it was because of this:
Because it reminded me so much of this, from a right winger, Adam Yoshida, in 2004:
So tell me Mr. Cole, do you want to “curb-stomp” the people who voted their conscience, and voted for a change in business as usual?
You’ve returned home.
PatrickG
@Lynn Sutherland:
Ah, so you’re on board with interning millions of American citizens based on race.
Marc McKenzie
@Ken: So was she the Butcher before she became Secretary of State or after she became Secretary of State?
Just asking…and also, did she personally go down the CA and actually kill people?
I mean, that’s what it seems like you’re implying….
Ruckus
@burnspbesq:
I’d go with profoundly ignorant. And wanting to stay that way.
Omnes Omnibus
@magurakurin: I am a Leo after all.
ruemara
@Lynn Sutherland: But allowing the neonazi fascist to gain control of America’s economic and military might is totes cool. Plus fuck younger women’s rights, LGBTQ rights, and fuck people of color. AS LONG AS YOU’RE PURE. Because that is exactly what you’re saying under all that noble talk about your principles. Thanks. Ally. You’re exactly why Sanders lost most POC.
dmsilev
@Anya: I fully expect to hear Republicans lamenting in a year or so that President Clinton is completely failing at bipartisanship, unlike Barack Obama.
? Martin
@PaulWartenberg2016:
Hard to say. Lots of polls show it a 2 point race and an equal number a 10+ point race. The difference is almost certainly the ability to poll and model latinos. Not sure which group has that right.
hovercraft
@Anya:
The white share of the vote will be down to the low 60 ‘s so of course they will say they were with him.
Amanda in the South Bay
@Lynn Sutherland: Jesus calm the fuck down. You think Trump would be better? And I fully expect a half hearted defense of Trump any day now.
Miss Bianca
@Lynn Sutherland: What is it with fucking purity ponies who keep whinnying about “the legacy of FDR”? *How* old did you say you were? Old enough to know what actually happened, right? That all the “progressive policies” of FDR were passed with specific provisions to exclude African Americans and other minorities? Those awesome internment camps for Japanese-American citizens were A-OK with you? FDR shat pure streams of progressive silk out of his ass? No. No. NO. He was a guy who did some great things, and some really shitty things, and whose great things needed to be tweaked over the course of a number of years to be great for *everyone*. That takes incremental progress. And *that* takes commitment. And *that* takes a recognition that NO ONE IS AS FUCKING PURE AS CONVENIENTLY DEAD DEMOCRATS, so cut the living ones some fucking slack, already.
Marc McKenzie
@Lynn Sutherland: “Mistakenly voted for” both Clinton and Obama?
….I’m trying to wrap my head around this, but….
Corner Stone
@Unabogie:
I just wanted to quote this again. I’m pretty sure it’s a Bernie or Bust eponymous tag but I also love it when someone is called a buster.
geg6
@ruemara:
Tell it.
Anya
This one is new.
trollhattan
Didn’t make it into the building where Hillary spoke, after three hours on line in the heat, and there were thousands queued behind when they stopped admitting folks. A few hundred stayed to listen and it was nice to share the experience because I had my daughter with. She can not only imagine a woman president, now she expects it. I thought it was a good speech both for the substance and for showing she’s got Donald’s number. She is going to put the hurt on the pig, and you and I are going to enjoy it.
magurakurin
@Marc McKenzie:
butterfly ballots?
burnspbesq
Clinton is holding at 62-38 in PR with close to half of the votes counted.
Ken
@schrodinger’s cat:
Well who voted you king of the Neoliberals?
ETA: My apologies, sire, I just opened my e-mail and read the minutes from last night’s secret meeting. 500 comments on the way.
burnspbesq
@Anya:
Why are people calling Clinton the Butcher of Central America? She doesn’t look anything like Michael Umana.
? Martin
@magurakurin: Not to mention his opposition to anti-lynching legislation. I guess our new progressive purity pony is cool with hanging black people from trees, so long as whites get their job programs.
My dad turns 70 this year. He remembers life before Civil Rights, though it is hard to see things when you keep closing your eyes to them.
dmsilev
@Marc McKenzie:
I parsed it as “regrets voting for those neoliberal sell-outs”.
NotMax
@Yutsano
Untrue. Unless he has access to a time machine and can pop ahead to when Vermont begins accepting such paperwork. Confusing FEC campaign funding data for a Sanders group with filing.
Ken
@Marc McKenzie, @Anya: My apologies for omitting the sarcasm tags. I was responding to Lynn, who seems to think Sec. Clinton was directing events in Honduras.
The bright side is that it pushes us closer to 500 comments.
Reggie Mantle
You want to see a Clintonite’s brain freeze up and smoke start coming out of their ears, ask them to explain why you should vote for the Queen (thanks to @burnspbesq for the preferred nomenclature) without once mentioning Donald Trump.
Renie
@Lynn Sutherland: So you are voting for el Trumpo? That’s being a really good Democrat.
Mnemosyne
@Lynn Sutherland:
So enabling lynching of African-Americans and imprisoning Japanese-Americans like FDR did is A-OK as long as white Americans benefit economically?
FDR was a great president, but let’s not forget for even a moment that he prioritized helping white Americans over everyone else.
Lynn Sutherland
Obviously I am not in favor of interning millions of American citizens–but you certainly put me in my place. Damn that FDR. Because of your penetrating arguments I will now have to revise my opinions about Hillary selling weapons to Saudi Arabia, her overthrow of the democratically elected Honduran government and installing the present government which has murdered over 100 environmentalists (mostly indigenous people–including Berta Caceres), her no fly zone over Syria and her enthusiastic support of Israel’s genocidal policies against the Palestinians, her eventual support of the TPP (she will flip on that one) and her love of fracking. And I have been here for years–long enough to get eviscerated by emom for my favorable opinion of Edward Snowden and Glenn Greenwald.
Reggie Mantle
@Marc McKenzie:
I don’t regard those as mistakes. We had nothing better at the time. This year we did. And the so-called “liberal” party decided to go with Republican Lite, while ruthlessly marginalizing and belittling those people who stood up for what used to be Democratic values.
That third party’s looking better and better all the time.
Yutsano
@Reggie Mantle: Supreme Court. Coattails to get a better Senate and House. Continuation and improvement (maybe even getting that public option!) of the ACA. First woman President of the United States which makes her Presidency historic in its own right.
Not a wisp of smoke.
@Mnemosyne: @Emma: And wot you both said!
wmd
So you want 47% (current count) of pledged delegates to be pledged to a humiliated candidate. How do you think that will work out in the long run? That’s an awful lot of people that identify as Democrats, or at least did this primary season that you’re wanting to humiliate.
Good luck with that.
Mnemosyne
@Reggie Mantle:
You mean other than healthcare, women’s rights (including abortion rights), minority rights, the Supreme Court, Dodd-Frank, foreign policy, and disability rights?
Emma
@Reggie Mantle: Let me, let me! Because she’s far better both in temperament and accomplishment than her Democratic rival. Because she’s a known quantity to our allies and one they trust as much as anyone playing the Great Game is trusted. Because she has specific, quantifiable plans in her platform that don’t depend on imaginary million man marches and that will expand on Obama’s achievements. Because she doesn’t sound like my old cranky uncle who knows better than anyone else.
I’ll stop there.
Mike in DC
I just want Bernie to read the writing on the wall and drop all talk about persuading superdelegates at the convention, when he lacks a majority of pledged delegates. He needs to concede, negotiate for the party changes and policies he wants, and then talk the 30% of his die hards, the Bernie or Busters, away from the edge.
If he doesn’t do the right thing, it would be an express ticket to political irrelevance.
redshirt
@Reggie Mantle: I’m voting Clinton because she has the best chance to destroy the Republican Party.
Which is my main goal.
Keith G
In about 50 hours, maybe a bit more, I will set to the task of evaluating just how good, bad, or utterly despicable Sen. Sanders is. He has competed hard and has done no damage to Hillary. He has brought new folks into the process and now Hillary can work to keep a lot of them involved.
After the polls close on Tuesday, I suspect that Sanders will do what’s right. If he refuses, that is when he begins actually hurting Democrats.
gf120581
@Reggie Mantle: Actually, I can give it to you now: because she is smart, capable, and eminently qualified for the position. I value competence above all else in a president (especially after Bush) and she has it in spades.
There, see? That wasn’t so hard. No, go off and cry with the rest of the Bernie diehards. The vast majority of Bernie supporters will be doing the correct thing and working to defeat the GOP, while you whiners becomes this year’s version of the PUMAs.
Aqualad08
@Lynn Sutherland:
FDR’s policies? Like, um, the war machine he helped create? Or the approximately 25 percent of FDR’s donations in 1932 that came from Wall Street?
Go home, Lynn, you’re drunk…
magurakurin
@Reggie Mantle:
I know I shouldn’t but, off the top of my head
increased funding for childcare
increased funding for addiction programs
increased funding for autism awareness and training
increased funding for aids prevention and cure
12 dollar federal minimum wage finally tied to some sort of index to produce automatic increases going forward.
increased regulations of the shadow banking and derivatives
increased support and strengthening of PPACA
adding a medicare buy in to the PPACA and a public option
expansion of SSI benefits
greater enforcement of strong and sensible gun control laws
but, honestly, just keeping Donald “some men just want to watch the world burn” Trump out of office is more than sufficient for me.
burnspbesq
@Reggie Mantle:
You still don’t get the reference, do you? Ignouamus, continuing to act in bad faith.
El Caganer
HAW HAW HAW STOOPID BERNIE SANDERS IS STOOPID HAW HAW HAW
amk
@Lynn Sutherland: you know who knows the most about that honduras debacle? al giordano. oops.
Anya
@Ken: Okay! Good to know.
Ken
@Renie: The one positive aspect of President Trump is that he will be so busy micro-managing the redecoration of Air Force One (you know it will have to have gold bathroom fixtures) that he won’t have time to sign the bills coming out of the Republican Congress.
The one negative aspect of that is, by Article I Section 7, it only delays the horror by ten days.
Reggie Mantle
So in the past few days on this supposedly liberal blog, we’ve seen posters defending big banks, big insurance and big pharma; trying to shout down people who were against the Iraq War and who bring up the Queen’s support for it; and now, telling us how horrible FDR was.
SMH.
Omnes Omnibus
@Reggie Mantle: You prove yourself an idiot and a poltroon.
pseudonymous in nc
@Reggie Mantle:
Are you imagining a general election where the GOP candidate is, instead, a character from Game of Thrones or a character in your political fanfic? Elections are choices between individuals, not abstract concepts.
Here you are, anyway: Hillary Clinton is the one person currently running for president who is clearly ready to do the job properly. This doesn’t mean I agree with all of her positions past, present or future, but she can do the fucking job, all day, every day, and whether you like it or not, the 2016 election is about “doing the job” vs “fucked if I know what” in a way that 2012 or 2008 were not.
Renie
@Lynn Sutherland: Wow are you impressed by yourself. Get over it – Hillary won. Bernie will go back to the sidelines and do absolutely nothing like he has done for 25 years. You would think if he is so pure and principled he could have done much more in building up a base for democratic socialism. But as we have seen, it’s now all about his ego. Just like you and yours.
magurakurin
@Reggie Mantle:
the third party? Is that, like, after the official wedding party, people get together for drinks somewhere and then after that second party all the bitter single guys go to a dive bar and have a third party where they drink lite beer and talk about how much girls suck? That third party? I bet that looks real good to you.
burnspbesq
@Reggie Mantle:
You had a sanctimonious old coot with no respect for the rules and processes of the Democratic Party and no ability to organize a properly functioning campaign on a national level. Get sober, frat-boy, and face reality.
Splitting Image
@Lynn Sutherland:
Oh, you precious little snowflake. So you’re saying that creating institutional barriers to black people getting Medicare and Social Security would be enough for you to stay in the Democratic party? Off with you then. The party is better off without you. Now go find a nice Republican to vote for who will shred what remains of the New Deal and really learn them Democrats a lesson.
pseudonymous in nc
And anyway, ‘Reggie Mantle’ is just Right To Shite playing a purity / concern troll, so fuck him.
Cat48
@Lynn Sutherland:
Anything that happened in a foreign country, in the examples you give, the president would have made the decision, also Libya was a NATO operation. SOS don’t control the military. People are spreading blatant lies about Hillary 24/7.
Miss Bianca
@Lynn Sutherland: Nobody is saying “damn FDR.” What they *are* saying is that maybe nobody is as pure – or as impure – as you seem to think they are. That maybe you have some faulty ideas. About FDR *and* about Hillary Clinton. That maybe an inability to see the forest for the trees is nothing to be proud of.
The Thin Black Duke
Oh. You fucked up. Your mask fell off, man. I suspected it before, but now I know for sure. Thanks. Will the checks stop coming after Clinton’s inauguration?
FlyingToaster
@Ramping Up:
Well, I shook Truman’s hand when I was 7, and grew up with his legacy, so I’m pretty sure he’d have called you a piece of shit.
LBJ would have called you — and Trump — a pigfucker. This after you denying that you live in your mom’s basement. *
And given Jack Kennedy’s time at LSE, I suspect he’d have been just fine with Hillary Clinton, and ignored your moronic ass.
*Left home at 18; haven’t lived withing 1500 miles of my parents since 1987. House has a mortgage so we can take the deduction. Why doesn’t yours?
Bill Arnold
@Ramping Up:
OK, this made me laugh. (Not entirely sure funny was your intent, but … funny.)
Reggie Mantle
@Keith G:
She’ll have her work cut out for her with all the alleged “liberals” doing their level best to drive them away. I suspect most of them aren’t going to respond to
? Martin
@Reggie Mantle: Easy. Infinitely better record on civil and women’s rights than Bernie. Vastly more experience with foreign policy. Better record as a Senator. Her economic goals are less radical but she actually has plans to achieve them, they are economically sound, they can be passed provided we get any sort of Democratic majorities in Congress. Bernie has no viable plans that I’ve seen – just a bunch of bumper-sticker ideas that sound good. She doesn’t dismiss a 50-state strategy as Bernie does. She’s more hawkish than I like, but considering that she’s about a million times more likely to understand the implications of her foreign policy actions than either Sanders or Trump, she’s massively more trustworthy in the process.
Maybe I’m a terrible liberal, but competence beats ideological purity in my book every day of the week. That’s why I picked Obama over Clinton, and Clinton over Sanders. Obama’s ideas were achievable, and most got achieved because of his competence. Most of the people that Democrats seek to help can’t afford to swing for the fence on every swing. Getting on base beats striking out and Sanders doesn’t know how to get on base. He’s hoping to hit a 10,000 foot homer and be rewarded for 12 runs for doing so. Life doesn’t work that way, as you can tell from the number of bills he’s introduced that have been signed into law. He’s introduced 362 bills and had 3 signed, one of which being a post office naming.
Steve Jobs had a saying: “Real artists ship”. Bernie is a vaporware candidate – some fantastic vision of the future that he can’t follow through on. If you want to deliver a progressive future, you have to fucking pass a bill, and he can’t do that. And naming post offices doesn’t solve income inequality.
So, my retort to Sanders voters: What has he actually done. Clinton got more legislation through the Senate in her 8 years than Sanders got though the House or Senate in 25 years. She knows how to move us forward. He doesn’t.
Xantar
@Reggie Mantle:
Ok, I’ve got two.
1. She’s wants to continue implementing and expanding Obamacare. That all by itself is reason enough to vote for her.
2. Her tax plans are genuinely good ideas, particularly the bits about dealing with high frequency transactions and taxing capital gains.
Splitting Image
@Reggie Mantle:
I want Ruth Bader Ginsburg running the Supreme Court more than I want Hillary Clinton running the White House. The only way to get the former is to get the latter.
Reggie Mantle
@redshirt:
She has the best chance to turn the Democratic Party INTO the Republican Party.
Mnemosyne
@Lynn Sutherland:
Let’s go point by point:
Hillary did not have the sole power to do this — it was approved by Obama. Not to mention by Congress. If you don’t like the US selling weapons to Saudi Arabia, change Congress.
Multiple other people have already addressed this but, to repeat, to claim that Hillary was in any way responsible for this requires you to buy into some pretty nutty conspiracy theories about the US secretly controlling both sides of a conflict.
The more hospitals and refugee camps that Syria and Russia bomb, the better a no-fly zone sounds to me, but we won’t get it without Russia’s cooperation.
Bernie supports these, too. What, you thought he denounced Israel? At best, he’s promoting a slightly more balanced version of the status quo.
Oh, I didn’t realize we were supposed to be pissed off at Hillary for things she hasn’t done yet. Is this like how I was supposed to be pissed at Obama because he was totally going to cut Social Security, like, any day now?
Yes, saying, “By the time we get through all of my conditions, I do not think there will be many places in America where fracking will continue to take place” is clearly demonstrating her unequivocal love of fracking. But I can see where a Bernista would get confused by Hillary’s point-by-point discussion of how she’ll stop fracking rather than just giving a simple Imma gonna stop it with no plan at all.
NotMax
@Cat48
Slight nitpick. It was a joint operation which included active participation by Qatar and some other non-NATO regional forces.
Renie
Besides all of the above reasons stated about why Hillary is a better candidate, if Bernie won my taxes would go up $15K for all his programs. Doesn’t sound reasonable to me.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Reggie Mantle: Well, when you finally discover the actual differences between the Republican and Democratic parties, do let us know.
Omnes Omnibus
@NotMax: Under NATO’s aegis nonetheless.
dmsilev
@Mnemosyne:
Yes, but other than that, what have the Romans done for us?
Rarely Posts
Clinton is going to win the nomination. It’s been in the bag for awhile, and it’s now pretty much ordained. My recommendation to Clinton supporters is to stop piling on Bernie and start being gracious. “I’m hoping she clubs him like a baby seal . . . . I want him humiliated” is not gracious. If you can’t say anything nice about Sanders, just talk about other things.
And, back in 2008 when Obama was winning, yes I and lots of other Obama supporters managed to start being gracious by now (and even earlier). And Clinton had run a harsher campaign than Sanders has; Clinton actually said that McCain had passed “the commander-in-chief test” and Obama hadn’t. Sanders has never praised Trump like that. I know lots of Clinton supporters have convinced themselves this campaign has been uniquely dirty, but it really hasn’t. If there has been more scandal talk, it’s because Clinton violated the Federal Records Act and plans to violate normal ethical norms by not recusing when dealing with institutions that gave her personally hundreds of thousands of dollars. I’m still voting for her, but if that stuff is hurting her, it’s not because Sanders drew people’s attention to it (indeed, he didn’t emphasize the Federal Records Act violations nearly as much as a typical opponent would have). It’s because it doesn’t look good. That stinks, but it was bound to come out.
Honestly, if you want to win in November, it’s time to stop flogging the dead horse. And, yes, it’s easier for winners to be gracious, because you won. And even if you see Sanders supporters being mean, well, it’s still not productive to flog the dead horse. Better to focus on winning them over or beating on Trump. At least if winning in November is what you really care about. If it’s about being right on the internet, then OK.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Lynn Sutherland: Guys, I think we found the Bizarro world version of Forwards From Grandma.
Xantar
@dmsilev:
The booze? But in all seriousness, apparently the White House home brew recipe is apparently quite good.
dedc79
Disclaimers
1) I’m a Hillary supporter
2) I don’t think those like Lynn Sutherland are persuadable and wouldn’t bother trying. A candidate who passed her purity test couldn’t get elected in Burlington let alone nationally. Hell, Bernie doesn’t agree with many of the things she’s said (e.g. he’s been critical of Israel, but he would not say they’re conducting a genocide)
That being said, with Clinton about to wrap things up on Tuesday, this isn’t the time to antagonize Bernie supporters, many of whom remain reachable.
burnspbesq
@Reggie Mantle:
False. Knowingly false. More lies. Do you even know what truth looks like?
pseudonymous in nc
@marilynD Southern Oregon: really, don’t do that. Not cool.
Aqualad08
@Reggie Mantle:
Another perfect example of reading a rebuttal of a historical figure’s alleged Bernie-brand purity and interpreting it as a aspersion on his presidency. It wasn’t. FDR was smart enough be flexible in doing what was needed to advance the country’s interests.
Bernie Sanders has proven throughout this primary he possesses no such statecraft. So please stop implying any correlation between him and a loyal Democrat like FDR.
The Thin Black Duke
@Rarely Posts: Do you want fries with that word salad?
John Cole
@Lynn Sutherland:
I like a lot of his ideas, although they might better be described as “thoughts” since there is no realistic plan to actualize and implement them. All I want is his campaign to be defeated soundly on Tuesday so he can stop lying about having a chance to win and threatening the entire nation with a disastrous convention, because WE NEED TO FUCKING STOP TRUMP.
And yes, I am gloating he is out of money, because it means he doesn’t have any more to spend bashing Hitlery.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@dedc79:
A candidate who passed her purity test would suddenly fail the instant they became the actual nominee.
Mnemosyne
@Keith G:
I’m still pretty convinced that what we’re hearing from now are the die-hard Hillary Haterz who mostly supported Bernie as an alternative to Hillary, not because they truly supported Bernie. The vast majority of the people who preferred Bernie (even strongly preferred him) have come around and are preparing themselves to support Hillary.
This is PUMA 2016, and I expect it to have about the same effect on the result as PUMA 2008 did.
muddy
@marilynD Southern Oregon: Doxxing is generally considered to be in bad taste.
sinnedbackwards
@sparrow: Please don’t let the door etc.
John Cole
@Renie:
No they wouldn’t. None of his tax increases would pass Congress. NONE.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Omnes Omnibus:
American citizens of Japanese heritage.
Bill Arnold
@eemom:
Seeing more and more of this sentiment – unusual among Democrats. (Staying strictly neutral on it while not using a nym.)
Cacti
@Aqualad08:
Bernie is a professional protest person.
He’s good at pointing out what he thinks is wrong with the world, and making broad strokes arguments about what he thinks should change.
When comes to explaining how he’d get from point A to point B? Crickets.
marilynD Southern Oregon
@pseudonymous in nc: @pseudonymous in nc: Seriously, did I do something wrong??….she gave us her name, and I haven’t been using Google as long as others, what’s a curious bored lady to do on a Sunday afternoon…..let me know if I need to adjust my snark meter, OK?
FlyingToaster
@John Cole:
True dat. And I don’t see Bernie having any coattails, especially since he’s declined to raise money with the D State Orgs and worse, dissed the superdelegates, many or most of whom are state party folk (state reps, congressfolk, yadda yadda yadda).
What’s cheesing me off is the stupid shit he and his campaign are saying. It’s like Walker is channelling Mark Fucking Penn.
dslak
@Rarely Posts: Adherence to the Federal Records Act, the shoal on which so many campaign ships have run aground. No American will stand for a candidate who disappoints the bureaucrats!
Omnes Omnibus
@Rarely Posts: OTOH, I was perfectly happy to discuss the differences the candidates had on the issues until I started being called a neoliberal, warmongering, Republican-lite sellout for weighing factors differently than someone else did. I don’t have a a problem with most Sanders supporters; they weighed the factors I did and came up with a different result. I fully expect that they will vote for the nominee in November – as I would had the results been different. The Bros, however, are assholes. I don’t really feel like being nice to them first. It may be a flaw on my part, but there it is.
Mnemosyne
@Rarely Posts:
Honestly, people are freaking out a bit because there have been so many rumblings from Bernie’s campaign managers about taking it to the convention and not conceding. I remember Hillary hard-liners in 2008, but I don’t remember anyone but the fringe talking about contesting the result. This year, we’re hearing Bernie’s campaign say they’re going to contest the result at the actual convention.
In 2008, Hillary was a good soldier and enthusiastically endorsed Obama before and at the convention, leaving no room for any disgruntled supporters to try and do otherwise. She swallowed her pride and did what was best for the party as a whole. Because Bernie has been a Democrat for less than a year, a lot of people are nervous that he’s not going to be willing to do the same thing, which would actually tear the party apart and potentially give Trump a path to victory.
pseudonymous in nc
@marilynD Southern Oregon: As muddy said, doxxing is bad form. In the comments here, people share what they choose to share about their lives — some more, some less — and you should respect those boundaries even if the call of the Googles is tempting.
Cat48
@Lynn Sutherland:
Wrong on the weapons to Saudis, the president decides, not SOS.
Omnes Omnibus
@BillinGlendaleCA: Thank you for the correction.
Reggie Mantle
@Rarely Posts:
The so-called “liberals” here have become just like the Republicans at least some of them used to be: gracious in neither victory nor defeat. Remember their battle cry: “they get nothing.”
And Clinton doesn’t get our votes.
Kay (not the front-pager)
@Amir Khalid: Sanders campaign is now denying they requested fewer polling places. They are so disorganized I wouldn’t be surprised if local campaign staff (likely volunteers, since the campaign is out of $$) made the request without making it clear to the national campaign.
marilynD Southern Oregon
@pseudonymous in nc: gotcha….won’t make that mistake again. I don’t comment very often…just getting brave enough to post occasionally.
Thanks for the lesson.
muddy
@pseudonymous in nc: Indeed, if someone wants you to have contact information, they make their nym into a link from their site.
Reggie Mantle
@pseudonymous in nc:
Everything is allowed, even doxxing, in the service of the Queen.
Aqualad08
@Reggie Mantle:
Hardest part about being a martyr is getting that last nail in…
Omnes Omnibus
@Reggie Mantle: So, here’s the thing. I don’t believe you are a long-time lurker/recent participant. I also don’t believe that you were or are a potential Clinton voter. I will stay quiet about my thoughts about who you really support.
PurpleGirl
@Amir Khalid: Possibly because Puerto Rico is in a critical financial crisis and some idiot thought that they could save some money by reducing the number of polling stations and the money to pay poll watchers. I know it sounds stupid, it is stupid. Also if the primary got messed up, Sanders could whine loudly about it being rigged. (I’ve lost all respect for Sanders.)
patroclus
I haven’t changed my view. We Hillary supporters need to start being much more magnanimous about the upcoming win and we need to start wooing rather then trashing Bernie supporters. I still think his candidacy has been beneficial because it brought good ideas and it stirred up a lot of interest in real liberal policies. Hillary running uncontested would never have done that. In my view, Bernie has about 9 more days, but after D.C., he needs to swallow the loss and behave graciously and he needs to solidly endorse Clinton. I’ll only come around to the majority view here if he doesn’t do that. In 1984, I was very involved in the Hart campaign and at a similar point, I just gave up and went hiking in New Mexico – I did NOT approve of him taking it to the convention at all. If Bernie does that, I’ll turn on him and support primarying him. But if he endorses Hillary with grace in about 10 days, I would oppose that strongly.
P.S. I’m glad the racist troll was basically ignored in this thread.
Omnes Omnibus
@Reggie Mantle: Here, for your cultural education.
After this, if you pull the Queen bullshit, you are a liar.
Reggie Mantle
@Omnes Omnibus:
Disingenuous much?
Cacti
@Lynn Sutherland:
I have no patience for geriatric hippies like you and Bernie, who didn’t get the message that it stopped being 1969 almost 48 years ago.
Your guy lost. And contrary to his plaintive whining, he lost fair and square. If that gives you and him a bad case of the sore ass, I just don’t care. There’s a fascist running on the other side that needs to be defeated. There’s no time to waste on hand holding bitter cranks who are old enough to know better.
So, goodbye, good luck, and don’t let the doorknob hit you in the ass on your way out.
Miss Bianca
OK, let me see if I’ve got this straight…
“Clinton is going to win the nomination, so it’s time for Clinton supporters to be gracious to Bernie supporters” because…seriously, why? Why is it up to Clinton’s supporters to “be gracious”? After months of hearing Clinton bashed by Bernie supporters as being a warmonger, a crook, a Wall Street shill, a symbol of all that’s “corrupt” about the “corrupt Democratic party”, and that we are no True Progressives because we support her…it’s up to *us* to be gracious? Seriously, why? Because Bernie supporters are going to take their votes and go home if we’re not “nice”? They’re going to vote for Trump? What is this – blackmail or sheer stupidity?
SiubhanDuinne
@Marc McKenzie:
Twice apiece, yet!
gf120581
@Kay (not the front-pager): It’s possible.
That’s another reason I’ve soured on Sanders; his campaign has been a hot mess from the get-go. I suppose some of it can be blamed on them not really expecting to do as well as they did and having to do it on the fly, but really, a lot of their decisions have just been idiotic, as well as their personnel choices. Tad Devine (who has been such a bad luck charm for Democratic campaigns in his career that I bet he gets reincarnated as a black cat) would be the worst if it wasn’t for Jeff Weaver. Comic Book Guy is the most appallingly awful campaign strategist/surrogate since Mark Penn.
And I know now they’ve run out of money and apparently riven with disputes, but still, I look at Bernie’s mess and then I look at Clinton’s well-oiled machine, patterned after Obama’s the last two elections and I go, “Yeah, I’m supporting the later.”
Elizabelle
@Reggie Mantle: You are the most tiresome creature to comment here in ages.
I wish you would go away. You add nothing to the conversation, and detract much. Go troll somewhere else. Please.
daves09
The bernie buddies never explain why Warren has greater influence both in congress and the country after four years than Sanders does after twenty-five. I’ve personally decided it’s the but factor- he can’t talk about anyone else without adding “but not as pure as me.”
Omnes Omnibus
@Reggie Mantle: Disingenuous how? IMO, you are a ratfucker.
sinnedbackwards
@Mnemosyne: When the polls are all “plus” the same way, it’s usually considered significant.
And unlike Michigan, the pollsters have fairly recent California results to benchmark.
TopClimber
@Reggie Mantle: Let me do what the two guys in your moniker would do with this slow ball you just pitched, namely smack in out of the park.
I am excited about voting for a lifelong progressive on workplace and gender issues who has the coolness and toughness to handle a hostile right wing opposition, who has a strong track record on issues of racial and economic equality, who knows global issues intimately, and whose election will boost the status of women all over the world.
Would I prefer she was less cozy with Wall Street and less avowedly hawkish? Yes–kind of like we all would have preferred if FDR had not been so blase about promoting racial equality and giving into anti-Japanese hysteria. Steam doesn’t come out of my ears because my candidate isn’t perfect.
Reggie Mantle
@Omnes Omnibus:
Oh, trust me, I’ve seen The Wire. LOL. In fact, I’ve done more than just see it.
? Martin
@marilynD Southern Oregon:
Yeah, you did. Even if people use their name, it’s not cool to call out where they live or what they do. It is a common tactic of social media bullying to post a picture of someone’s house, or give their address or some such in order to silence them, a not-too-subtle way of saying ‘I know where you live’. Even if your intentions are not harmful, we can’t speak for everyone who might read this site, or read your Facebook or Twitter feed. The best thing to do is pretend people are anonymous except for the information they offer up. Almost nobody has a unique name. There are lots of people that are 73. Putting those things together in order to narrow down to a person isn’t necessary and doesn’t achieve anything.
Cacti
@Miss Bianca:
Yes, the “life-long Democrat” mistakenly voted for the only two Democrats to win the White House in the last 36 years.
ruemara
For all of you posting with your concerns about winning over Bernie supporters, these numbskulls wandering into threads are not indicative of Bernie supporters. They are random people claiming to support Bernie while demonstrating the mental acumen of a fungus infused fig newton. Most Bernie supporters, even those who are still holding out hope that the evil Hilz will be defeated, have no intention of sitting out the election of the president. They can see what’s at stake. Those who do spout the claptrap mentioned on here and other websites are neither Dems, nor progressives. They’re people who vote their vanity and as such an elite class, are not enough of an electoral majority to be concerned about. So, if you could stop telling people who are responding to some of this irritating blaming, name-calling and general ignorance that has passed for Bernie supporter outreach, that would be awesome. Because comparatively, we have been most polite and patient. These tools are not speaking for millions of Sanders voters. They’re speaking for a few thousand die hard leftists and libertarians and conservative ratfuckers with a statistically insignificant vote for the Democratic party.
Reggie Mantle
@Miss Bianca:
So it’s “time to curb-stomp the bastards”?
? Martin
@daves09:
I credit Warren for spending years on the solutions side. Most academics don’t rise because they whine a lot. They rise because they offer viable ideas to problems. Warren has a long record of dissecting financial problems and offering specific solutions to them. She had more legislative success with the CFPB in Congress before she got to Congress than Sanders did after 20 years in Congress.
We reward people who get things done.
patroclus
@Miss Bianca: No, Hillary supporters like me need to be magnanimous in victory. Because it’s good politics and good manners. Sanders supporters need to be gracious in defeat. Because it’s good politics and good sportsmanship. if both sides do it, we have a better chance of beating the proto-Fascist soundly.
magurakurin
@Cacti:
And the most ignorant part of going back to FDR, Truman, LBJ, et al to prove that Bernie is right is that it ignores history. Looking at the SSI that FDR got through Congress and comparing it to what the program is now is living, breathing proof that incremental change is how basically everything has ever been done in the United States. Obama’s PPACA very well may one day become a single payer system. Hillary Clinton suggesting pushing down the Medicare buy in age and creating at least state level public options on the exchanges will go light years further towards achieving a single payer system than Sanders simply proposing a vague and far flung bill to install it in one fell swoop. It is the ignorance of historical understanding that is so depressing in this types of people.
Omnes Omnibus
@Reggie Mantle: Then why the fuck did you refuse to recognize the play on that scene? Burnsie subbed “queen” for “king,” and you just basically admitted that you knew that. It says a lot.
Mnemosyne
@TopClimber:
I always assumed he was referencing this comic book character, which then makes me wonder if he’s been a spoof troll all along. After all, the character is a smarmy, arrogant rich guy who always ends up failing spectacularly.
Cacti
@Omnes Omnibus:
Indeed.
We seem to have gotten a glut of “Bernie supporters” lately, who never seem to have a single positive thing to say about any Democrat anywhere.
LanceThruster
Bernie or Bust.
Librarian
Also we’ve been selling weapons to the Saudis for a long, long time. Why all of a sudden is it Hillary’s fault?
RSP
@Reggie Mantle:
Yeah I’m sure what people say on an obscure liberal blog will really matter to the General Election. Everybody calling you a fucking dipshit is right. You contribute nothing of any worth to the threads you’re in except constant pissing and moaning about mean things anonymous people say online
You’re a loser and I hope this comment makes you clutch your pearls like you do all the fucking time anyone says anything negative about Bernie Sanders. Go fuck youself, moron.
Johnny Coelacanth
@Librarian: Because weak sauce like that is all they have.
jl
@Miss Bianca: Um…. it’s called democratic electoral politics. If Sanders had won, Sanders would have to reach out to the more moderate and conservative Clinton supporters and convince them to support him.
Curbstomp the losers, or pout and stay home your your person doesn’t win is bad politics. You want to win the general, whoever wins the nom will have to negotiate and reach out to the other camp that ran against and pissed off him or her during the primary.
I’d point this out to Cole, as well as you, but he is in one of his overly excited and vindictive moods and probably no reasoning with him. Cole is agitated.
burnspbesq
Is it sufficiently “gracious” to remind Berniacs that Presidential elections are zero-sum games, and list the real-world things that they reveal themselves to be in favor of if they refuse to support Clinton?
FlyingToaster
@Reggie Mantle:
Why are you pretending, troll? Clinton was never going to get your vote. There isn’t a single (or a million) thing(s) she could do to convince you.
I’m assuming that we’ve got new trolls because they’re getting kicked off of the GOS and LBC and TalkingPointsMemo.
Bill Arnold
@Rarely Posts:
Fair enough, thanks for the reminder that the Democrats need to re-coalesce/make intraparty peace, both now and (assuming a Dem win in 2016) through to 2020.
Mnemosyne
@Reggie Mantle:
You’ve masturbated to it? TMI, dude. T. M. I.
Rarely Posts
@dslak:
The Federal Records Act is a law passed by Congress. Violating the law bothers some people, and it should. Also, the Federal Records Act exists so that the government maintains accurate records of how decisions are made. That’s important when the government needs to prove what happened in the past, which it often needs to do. And it’s really important for accountability — accurate records let people know who decided what and who should be accountable for decisions. It’s necessary so Congress can perform its oversight function and for Freedom Of Information Act (FOIA) compliance. I realize our current Congress does not care about genuine, non-hackish oversight, but I do.
One of the things that I don’t like about both Clintons is that they violate rules or laws or do other dumb things, and then liberals all rush to their defense. And then the liberals end up staking out bad positions. The Federal Records Act requirements (or similar record keeping requirements) are necessary for good government. We shouldn’t abandon good government and accountability just because Clinton messed up.
I’m not going to change my vote in the general based on it, but I honestly suspect it would have sunk any normal politician’s campaign (whereas the Clintons have immense power within the Democratic party establishment). In 1988, Biden apparently backed out of the primary because he had plagiarized a speech, plagiarized in school, and exaggerated his academic record. In 2008, people thought Obama might need to drop out for going to the “wrong” Church. Repeatedly violating a federal law seems at least as bad as those things.
It’s not going to change my vote because Clinton will still pick better Judges than any Republican; she’s still better on civil rights, women’s rights, and LGBT rights; she’s better on taxes, social security, and health care. She’s better on foreign policy than Trump. She’ll be better at managing the economy than Trump. Indeed, with Trump as her opponent, she’s basically the only rational choice.
On balance, those issues outweigh her violating the Federal Records Act. But I wish liberals wouldn’t all rush to act like it’s just fine that she violated the law. It’s possible to hold two ideas in our head at once — she will still be a better President than Trump, but she still did something bad.
Miss Bianca
@Reggie Mantle: No, fool. It’s not “time for Clinton supporters” to do ANYTHING but what they’ve been doing. Supporting their candidate.
Maybe it’s time for Bernie supporters to sack up and commit to voting (D) no matter what to keep a President Trump out of the White House, and Republican tools out of the Supreme Court, without expecting to be given cookies and milk for doing the self-evidently right thing.
patroclus
@ruemara: Some are, some aren’t. We’re treating them all the same. If they really are trolls, they will show that over time (like NR and Boob and mclaren). The others should be allowed a little bit more of a grace period.
Matt McIrvin
@Miss Bianca: Basically, the US government declined to take any action against the coup, and this gradually morphed through a game of political Telephone into Hillary Clinton personally masterminding the coup to install her chosen dictator, like the CIA overthrowing Mossadegh.
Nobody who normally opposes the US meddling in the affairs of other countries has been able to explain to me why this is the one case where we should have done so. As far as I can tell, few people in Honduras think the United States should have stuck its nose in the whole thing.
burnspbesq
@LanceThruster:
You busted.
Reggie Mantle
@Omnes Omnibus:
I’ve been laughing ever since he said it because it said it so much, yet with so little self awareness.
And the constant attempts to “educate” me about The Wire have me in fucking stitches. Really.
marilynD Southern Oregon
@? Martin: learned my lesson already up thread….won’t do it again, promise!!
gf120581
@ruemara: Precisely. Or more specifically, they’re the PUMAs of this election cycle. Loud and obnoxious, but negligible in number and irrelevant in the end. They’re not to be confused with the large majority of Sanders voters who will switch to supporting Hillary with little problem, just as her supporters switched to Obama in 2008.
@daves09: Warren is a team player who knows how to accomplish things. Sanders is the guy who stands off to one side and gripes that everyone else is not doing the job correctly. It doesn’t take much to see who would naturally be more effective.
RK
That and the Iraq War, Cole.
magurakurin
@RSP: exactly. This ain’t the Clinton Campaign Headquarters. Clinton is being very gracious to Sanders. But this is like a bar in South Boston. You come in wearing a Yankee’s jersey…
Emma
@Reggie Mantle: *giggle*
Omnes Omnibus
@Rarely Posts: FFS
@Reggie Mantle: Okay, you are more street than the rest of us. BGD. You just admitted to intentionally taking something out of context. Or lying.
Reggie Mantle
@Mnemosyne:
More of you people’s weird fantasies. Seriously, dudes, get help.
Although now that you bring it up, Deirdre Lovejoy is pretty smokin’.
Mnemosyne
@Rarely Posts:
I don’t think any of the investigations have said that she violated the law that was in place at the time, and the US Constitution specifically says that you can’t pass new laws and then punish people for what they did before the law was passed. So far, all of the investigations have said that she may have violated internal policy, but did not violate federal law, and that is a very important distinction.
PurpleGirl
@sparrow: After looking up some stats on him he doesn’t look like an all-time Senate leader. He can face a primary just as much as any body else. If the voters of Vermont want to keep him, it’s their choice. So: (1) He has a bad record of working with other senators; (2) He calls himself a democratic socialist, he had to worm his way into the Democratic Party to run as a Democrat; (3) He whines if things don’t go the way he wishes they had; (4) He has not released tax returns, possibly to hide that he is worth more than he says he is and there’s that little thing about his wife’s fraud in the bankruptcy of the college she headed; (5) He has missed roll-call votes 6.5% of the time when the average percentage is 1.6 for other congresscritters. So don’t try to tell me NEEDS protection; he’s in his 70s and is a big boy.
patroclus
GOT starting!
jl
@Rarely Posts: I agree that the Clinton have violated the rules and it is bad. What I don’t see is how they have violated the rules worse than most politicians. I particularly don’t see how the HRC email stuff is substantively worse than previous secretaries of state. I think to single her out in it is playing by the media’s ‘Clinton rules’ and since both Rice and Powell had similar practices and problems, singling out HRC is basically using the issue for a partisan political attack. If there is an indictment, there better be a hell of a lot more than has been revealed now or I will suspect a corrupted and partisan prosecutor someplace in the process.
Aqualad08
@Reggie Mantle:
Did you masturbate on to a DVD box set of it?
Matt McIrvin
@gf120581:
I hope that this is the case, but the wild card is Bernie Sanders himself. Hillary Clinton threw in the towel after California and urged her supporters to elect Obama in 2008. Sanders probably won’t do this at least until the convention, and because he’s not particularly loyal to the Democratic Party, there’s a distinct nonzero possibility that he will go nomination-truther afterward and actually try to blow up the general election. I was sure he wouldn’t do this for most of the primary campaign, but now I’m not so sure.
Most of his supporters still wouldn’t follow, but it would probably be a much larger remnant than the PUMAs, since Bernie would be actively egging them on.
Mnemosyne
@Reggie Mantle:
Hey, I’m not the one jerkin’ it to “The Wire.” And if you’re going to claim that you’re secretly David Simon, you should warn us all now since our collective hoots of derisive laughter will probably shut down the website.
? Martin
@Librarian:
Indeed. Actually it’s under Hillary’s stint as SOS that she and Obama started to marginalize Saudi Arabia, make them work a bit harder for this relationship. I don’t see many Democrats acknowledging how the foreign policy playbook has changed in the last 5 years. SAs future is entirely their own, but their best path to survival is to open up and become more democratic while they have the money to implement the social policies that would make it sustainable. Their hand is now being forced. It’s risky, but it was inevitable.
Miss Bianca
@patroclus: Seriously – when have Clinton supporters here been ungracious to a Sanders supporter who said, “gee, maybe I need to consider voting for Clinton”? In my experience, they’ve been far more likely to say, “welcome to the club”.
And now I’m listening to Bernie Sanders threatening “a contested convention” on the news. Not seeing a whole lot of “being gracious in defeat” there. But sure – the problem is that Clinton supporters aren’t being “magnanimous” enough.
RSP
@magurakurin:
I just can’t understand what anybody would get out of this. Arguing for hours on end on a forum where you know everyone hates you and finds you obnoxious. Sounds like an exercise in sadomasochism to me. I think s/he is a troll, because I can’t imagine anybody acting like this for so long on a goddamm blog.
burnspbesq
@Rarely Posts:
Uh, excuse me, but did you actually READ the IG report? Specifically, page 23:
Omnes Omnibus
@patroclus: In 2008, no one was nice until Clinton conceded. Any Bernie people who admit that Clinton is going to be the candidate and that s/he will ever so reluctantly support her gets a laurel and hearty handshake from me.
? Martin
@marilynD Southern Oregon: I took it as an honest mistake, which is why I gave an explanation. It’s important for people to understand why doxxing is dangerous – it’s very different than revealing someone’s information in a physical interaction.
Doxxing is a particularly nasty tactic to silencing women on the internet. Informing in the hope we can gain another advocate against doxxing.
Rarely Posts
@Mnemosyne:
The OIG report says that she “failed to comply” with the Federal Records Act. That is a polite way for a lawyer to say that she violated the Federal Records Act. To be clear, I’m not sure that it was a criminal violation. It may have just been a civil violation. Something can be illegal and not criminal (think exceeding the speed limit). She’s also now taken steps to try to come into compliance with the law, which is a good thing.
From Appendix A of the OIG report: The 1995 regulations explicitly noted that “messages created or received on electronic mail systems may meet the definition of record.” 36 C.F.R. § 1222.34(e) (1995). “Even prior to the issuance of this provision, emails would have been considered a Federal record based on the broad definition of “record” in the Federal Records Act. 44 U.S.C. § 3301.
static.politico.com/f3/9b/19d29ab14abeb4a30ca2975f1e6c/oig-report.pdf
Bill Arnold
@marilynD Southern Oregon:
Just to add another comment agreeing with other responses, yes, any sort of public reveal of somebody else’s identity is called doxxing, and is considered discourteous in current internet culture. OK to do the searches, just don’t let the results affect what you write.
.
dslak
@Rarely Posts: I didn’t say it was “just fine” she violated the law, so don’t put words in my mouth. But I don’t see the point in pretending that anyone cares about how well a cabinet officeholder preserves their documents enough to change their vote. They have functionaries responsible for taking care of that stuff.
FlyingToaster
@Matt McIrvin:
.
I expect it’ll be a lot sooner than that. He’s got two problems, and he’s been told so openly by Reid and Schultz.
If he wants to pay off his campaign debt, he’ll have to cooperate with the DNC; that means that after DC, he plays fair. Not play nice; he’s not required to release his delegates or anything nasty like that. He stops attacking the nominee, and stops urging his supporters to. Or else he won’t get any help on his debt, and he won’t be getting a prime time slot to speak at the convention, and he’ll probably get his ass kicked out of the Democratic party.
If he EVER wants a committee ranking seat or committee chair, he WILL stop talking conspiracy shit. Reid told him so in the hallway in front of witnesses, and Sanders is still spouting bullshit, so he may decide not to run any more. Schumer won’t give a fuck about purity ponies.
TopClimber
@Mnemosyne: Thanks for the info. Well, if I was played at least I have lots of company.
Omnes Omnibus
@Rarely Posts: The paragraphs that you are posting on this suggest that you find it rather important. Why?
burnspbesq
@Omnes Omnibus:
Reggie will miss that cultural reference, too.
Rarely Posts
@burnspbesq:
Yes, I have read the OIG report. And yes, her production of the records after the fact “mitigated” her prior violations. That was the right thing to do. But she was in violation when she was Secretary of State. And also from page 23, “the Department and OIG both determined that the production included no email covering the first few months of Secretary Clinton’s tenure—from January 21, 2009, to March 17, 2009, for received messages; and from January 21, 2009, to April 12, 2009, for sent messages. OIG discovered multiple instances in which Secretary Clinton’s personal email account sent and received official business email during this period.” So, unfortunately, it looks like she didn’t save all her records from her time there, and so couldn’t fully come into compliance.
elftx
Seeing a @Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap link to pancakes for the delusional just cracks me up. Thank You.
Bernie and Jane have earned that coming lesson in humiliation.
? Martin
@Omnes Omnibus: Indeed. I hold no grudges against Sanders supporters or their vote. I can’t speak for why anyone else votes the way they do, that’s their business. If they support my preferred candidate, they will get nothing but thanks from me.
marilynD Southern Oregon
@? Martin: Yes, it was a honest mistake. It entered my mind when I was talking about the larger picture of who/what Bernie Bros are thinking at this age. But kind of thought she had doxxed herself, so I went with it. Won’t happen again, as I hate that kind of shit.
FlyingToaster
@RSP: The amount of time spent makes me wonder, as well.
Back in my trolling days (early oughts, hanging out at FC, a group would agree on ‘nyms and go troll Stormfront or Scientology); it was fun getting the ‘fronter’s all riled up, and trying to get a Scientologist to admit inherent contradictions was incredibly funny, but I’d usually get hit with a banhammer within the hour and head back to sunnier climes.
Coming back with different nyms, thread after thread? Either they’re getting paid, or they’re obsessives. Which means the jokes about their meds maybe oughtn’t be jokes. Alas.
Rarely Posts
@Omnes Omnibus:
Mostly because I’m a lawyer and a nerd and because I am familiar with these rules from personal experience. So I would expect this to bother me a lot more than the average person. Also, it grates because it’s an example of how rules don’t apply to high-level people (where it’s most important) but they do apply to all the low-level people (whose work is honestly less important).
I don’t think this is huge, but it was going to be a problem for her campaign no matter what. It’s also exactly the kind of process thing that the media gets obsessed about (especially because it overlaps with FOIA, which implicates the media directly). Partially I’m just annoyed because it’s a totally unnecessary self-inflicted injury.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@FlyingToaster: I don’t think he’ll run again.
He’s never shown any interest in legislation.
Plus as a sitting senator his income is limited. After he leaves office he can go around paid college speaking circuit, become a paid commentator on msnbc (like Howard Dean), and even do endorsement (like bob dole for erectile disfuntion and pepsi).
Rarely Posts
@Miss Bianca:
It’s just advice that I hope Clinton supporters will take because I suspect it will make it easier to convince Sanders supporters to come around to supporting Clinton. And if the goal is for Clinton to win in November, I would recommend it. I could be totally off, but speaking just for myself, every time I read something bashing Sanders, it makes me less enthusiastic about backing Clinton. Every time I read something genuinely positive about Clinton or negative about Trump, I get more enthusiastic about backing Clinton. But it’s just one person’s perspective. Take it for what you will.
burnspbesq
@Rarely Posts:
That’s hilarious. I’m willing to bet that in my years of jousting with the IRS, I’ve submitted more FOIA requests than the average journo. It ought to be an essential and heavily used part of their toolkit, but the inescapable impression is that it’s too much like work and they’re too damn lazy.
Omnes Omnibus
@Rarely Posts: Your feelings about what is said about previous SoS’s? Powell and Rice?
RSP
Here’s some advice. Don’t let stupid shit get in the way of seeing the bigger picture, which is defeating Adolf Trumpler. That’s it. Do what most people and ignore people you regard as idiots.
FlyingToaster
@Rarely Posts: Note: Clinton and her campaign staff do NOT bash Sanders.
OTOH, over here in the peanut gallery, it looks like the kitchens at Pottsdorf Castle.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@Rarely Posts: really? If a government official says you violated a rule or regulation, then you’re guilty? That’s it. That’s all it takes?
You must be a piss poor lawyer.
Sad.
jl
@Rarely Posts: @burnspbesq:
I am not a lawyer, and I have not read the report, but news reports and summaries I have read said that Rice and Powell had some similar practices and similar problems. How is Clinton worse in some clearly describable or quantifiable way? And even so, if HRC had 30 or whatever retrospectively classified pieces, and Powell had 5 or 10, or whatever, if Clinton is guilty of breaking the law, then so is Powell.
Until that context is cleared up for me, I consider attacks on HRC on this issue to be a partisan witch hunt, frankly.
Edit: and if you are a really a nerd about it, then I hope you will let us now how HRC is in some substantial or legally significant way, worse than other high ranking officials, particularly previous Secretaries of State.
.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I just love how much Bernie! has worn out Cole’s patience.
@Rarely Posts: I think your nym is no longer operative. How about “Constantly Concerned”?
BillinGlendaleCA
@Omnes Omnibus:
and some unused Baud!2016! swag*.
*Baud!2016! swag may required steam cleaning, I mean it’s been around Baud!.
Omnes Omnibus
@Rarely Posts: You are a lawyer, yes? Then you are capable of dispassionately analyzing facts. Trump or Clinton? For once, it really is a binary choice.
Emma
@Rarely Posts: Hillary has been keeping her skirts damn clean when it comes to Bernie, so it certainly not the views of the opposite candidate that are affecting you. So if I understand you correctly, you allow your best judgment about a candidate to be swayed by someone writing nasty crap in a blog?
Mnemosyne
@Rarely Posts:
IANAL, but you seem to be telling me that the AG’s report says that the violation was essentially the equivalent of a speeding ticket. And she was supposed to withdraw from the race because of it because, why, again? Explain to me in short, non-lawyer words why the general public is supposed to care about this any more than we cared about Travelgate, Whitewater, or the blow job.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Yutsano: Late to the party, but the Bernie FEC filings are for his PAC which has had the same name since 2007 or so. It has nothing to do with how he runs in Vermont in 2018. He can’t get listed under Vermont law to be listed on the ballot until 2018. The FEC has nothing to do with how he’s listed on the ballot.
He (or his campaign) said he’s a Democrat and will stay a Democrat. It would be nice if people wouldn’t keep harping on this FEC filing thing.
Cheers,
Scott.
Rarely Posts
@jl:
I would be shocked if there was an Indictment. Not every legal violation gets prosecuted, and as I noted above, these may just be civil violations (not criminal). And almost no one has perfect compliance with the Federal Records Act (though keeping all work emails on a private server is pretty different from accidentally deleting a few emails).
As for different standards: I do think that Powell and Rice deserve grief, but they also never ran for President. Honestly, the double-standard that bothered me was the greater attention paid to Clinton’s violations than to Jeb’s or Walker’s e-mail violations. I’m less knowledgeable about them, but they sounded bad.
And yes, the media holds Democrats to a much higher standard than Republicans. But that’s just a fact of life, and Democrats need to campaign with the media we have, not the ideal one we’d want. Purely from the perspective of winning, Democrats should keep their noses super clean. It’s part of why I love Obama; he has run an amazingly clean ship.
burnspbesq
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
You’re wrong on this one. There is no real reason to doubt that the facts uncovered by OIG in its investigation are accurately stated in its report, and its legal conclusions appear to be sound. It is more likely than not true that EVERY SecState since Albright committed technical violations of the Federal Records Act. There’s plenty of room for reasonable people to disagree in good faith about the importance of those violations, but they happened. Nothing is gained by pretending they didn’t.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@SiubhanDuinne: She’s fed up with the expansion of health care access, progress toward a cleaner environment, increased recognition of the dignity and rights of LBGQT people, increased international cooperation against nuclear arms, the first Justice of Hispanic ancestry on the USSC, she’s disgusted by decreased unemployment, the rescue of the economy, twice, and god knows how many jobs….. She’s just not gonna have it anymore.
RSP
@FlyingToaster:
You ever heard of True Capitalist Radio? This guy who allegedly lives in Austin TX does this Internet radio show on Blog talk Radio. Totally insane. He’s believes the government controls the weather, the moon landings were fake and is a racist (though he denies it) to boot. He came back after a four year hiatus for this election and is supporting Trump.
Anyway, he has segments on the show where listeners can interact him, called Radio Graffiti and Twitter Shoutouts. Being the internet, it goes pretty bad. Hilariously bad. Trolls edit clips of him saying the funniest things and twitter while offensive make him rage hard, to the point where he throws his mic across his office and utterly flis out. It’s all in good fun since he’s probably just an actor. I personally have never trolled him but I listen to clips uploaded to youtube.
jl
@BillinGlendaleCA:
” Baud!2016! swag may required steam cleaning, I mean it’s been around Baud!.”
I were you, I’d beware of fake swag, no real Baud! 2016! swag has just been around just Baud!
BillinGlendaleCA
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: The AMEX thing worked for William Miller.
smith
@Rarely Posts: It looks like the emails she couldn’t produce come from very early in her tenure, when the new administration was staffing up. That can’t be an easy task, and it’s probably common for things to slip or get lost until all staff are in place and all procedures clarified. It probably happens with every administration, and if other federal departments had been subject to this kind of scrutiny you’d probably find similar in that time period. It pales in comparison to the deliberate destruction of emails during the Bush administration when they were warned in advance by Gonzales they were about to be subpoenaed. It pales in comparison to just about anything else you could label a “scandal,” for that matter.
Barbara
@Mnemosyne: Likely voter screens.
Omnes Omnibus
@smith: But, golly, it is such a scandal… Oh golly, gee.
jl
@Rarely Posts:
” As for different standards: I do think that Powell and Rice deserve grief, but they also never ran for President. ”
But you were talking about legal standards of criminal and civil violations.What does running for President have to do with that? Albright, Powel and Rice have a lot of job and $ goodies if not becoming president too. Why weren’t they run through the wringer for anything in their subsequent careers?
Edit: or do you have your own special double standard for HRC? And I say this as an ex Sanders mega-donor but who is very tired of hearing about her damn emails, even if Sanders still as a chance < 50 percent I'd say of getting my vote next Tuesday (I'm still mulling it over)
Rarely Posts
@Omnes Omnibus:
I’m calling it a night. But you asked “Trump or Clinton?” Obviously Clinton. Indeed, earlier in this thread, I said this:
Clinton is “the only rational choice” — that means obviously I’m voting for her in the general.
burnspbesq
@jl:
In technical legal mumbo-jumbo, Clinton fucked up, but she made what appears to be a good faith effort to fix it, and there is no evidence of any significant security breach. I’m sure you saw through my use of the term “technical violation” in post 321.
Aleta
@jl: What would be the difference between fake swag and real swag?
Omnes Omnibus
@jl: Clinton Rules.
PurpleGirl
@magurakurin: Let’s not forget that originally Social Security was basically restricted to white people and excluded the types of jobs that Blacks held at the time.
amk
@Rarely Posts: time to change your nym. or live up to it?
Mnemosyne
@Rarely Posts:
And the reason I sound exasperated about this is that Bernie celebrity spokesbot Susan Sarandon has been running around insisting that Hillary is going to jail thanks to the emails, and I. Just. Can’t. Even. anymore about the fucking emails.
Omnes Omnibus
@Rarely Posts: Thanks for showing up and tossing suspicion like fairy dust.
amk
whatev happened to bs’s I don’t give a daymn about your e-mails?
BillinGlendaleCA
@jl: True, there could be some residual blow from the hookers’ asses.
Rarely Posts
@smith:
@jl:
Yes, I think it’s problematic that high level officials rarely face any grief for their mistakes or legal violations. But I’m not shocked that a Democratic Presidential candidate is held to a higher standard by the press than just about anyone else. Fair or unfair, it’s entirely predictable.
Major Major Major Major
Hai kids, time for me to fill out my San Francisco ballot. What should I put down for everything? Thx
FlyingToaster
@RSP: Yeesh. It sounds like the distillation of the Alex Jones’ callers plus the whackos that call in to CSPAN.
Thanks, I now have one more crazy-ass thing to avoid.
I’m beginning to think of staying north of the Mason-Dixon line for the duration. Though these days we’re getting black helicopters searching for our moose.
jl
@burnspbesq: IANAL, but my first job out of college was in the classified word. So, I am suspicious about these kinds of confusing rules about record keeping and the difficulty of using their insanely incompetent and clumsy systems (Edit: and my default assumption is that most charges are) BS (Edit: unless some positive intent to violate for a specific purpose is clearly shown). That was back in the 80s, and it looks nothing has changed much. So, I have to admit bias against scandals like this, even if the targets are people I don’t particularly agree with on much, like Rice.
And I do have clear memory, that you don’t have to be a huge bigshot to get the double standard treatment. High level contractors and prominent pundit and adviser types velvet glove treatment, while underling get fired for same stuff. The double standard starts far far below the Clintons, Rices Powells, and their ilk. I know this for a fact from personal experience. So, so I don’t understand what has Rarely Posts so riled up, if that commenter has really worked in that area.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@amk: whatev happened to the candidate who said he would never go negative and would only run on issues and now is desperately clinging to and pushing wingnut fantasies.
FlyingToaster
@Major Major Major Major: You have to ask?
Baud!
Baud!
Baud!
burnspbesq
@Aleta:
Real swag is made by union labor on American soil.
I’m goimg to be really impressed if anyone can name the song I swiped that line from.
RSP
@FlyingToaster:
He actually says Alex Jones is cribbing off his style, coincidentally.
Cat48
If Abc is correct, Hillary needs around 22 pledged delegates to clench.
eemom
@Lynn Sutherland:
Wow, I did that? Kewl. Cuz based on your comments on this thread, you are either a pathetically clueless tool or a ratfucker. There is no other explanation.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@Major Major Major Major:
I would recommend writing-in Baud
Mnemosyne
I’m still waiting for Reggie to come back and tell us all what Very Important Job he had on “The Wire.” I’m guessing either set security or craft services.
Though he does sound like 90 percent of the self-important white guy douchebag screenwriters I run into out here who think I give a fuck about their opinions and get very snippy when they realize I honestly don’t.
Omnes Omnibus
@burnspbesq: Hi there.
Major Major Major Major
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: I might actually do that for state senate. I don’t like either of the dems and they’re going to be top 2.
magurakurin
@Rarely Posts:
Then don’t come in wearing a Yankee’s jersey. Posters blow in here, post a few lines about Clinton is really Republican or a warmonger or a corporate shill and then we have to be nice because….fee fees. Fuck that noise. People who discussed Sanders’ policy have always been treated well. Hell, half the frickin’ regular posters here were either Sanders’ supporters, contributors or just Sanders-curious. But pretty much everyone has changed their mind. I mean, damn, even Applejinx eventual switched sides. It’s not a question of being gracious to the opposition. You come in here with a chip on your shoulder, and it damn sure will be knocked off. There are plenty of other bars in the neighborhood.
BillinGlendaleCA
@jl: Also IANAL, but I used to work as a paralegal and IT support for Satan’s legal department, Sec. Clinton seemed to be relying on forwarding email to folk in the State Department’s system to preserve her emails. That was judged at neither complete or sufficient. She was then required to produce a dump of all relevant emails from her account on the server run in her home to satisfy a FOIA request from Larry Klayman(Wikipedia confirms my recollection).
Jeff Spender
@Mnemosyne: I love coffee house writers who think I give a shit about their art. Gotta write in public on a MacBook!
Real writers like me write with a pre-WW2 model remington typewriter under a naked bulb, smoking filterless ciggies and downing scotch on the rocks like a man dying of thirst.
Anya
Does Bernie realize the absurdity of his argument? His argument is that superDs—the corrupt party establishment—would change their support from Clinton to him? What the actual fuck?
Super annoying Cenk Uygur was on CNN’s “Reliable Sources” arguing that Hillary might get indicted. That’s when the SuperDs will step in and crown Sanders.
FlyingToaster
@RSP: Bwahahahahahahahaha.
Egads, he came out of retirement for this election.
Where are our FEMA camps and 100,000 mental health professionals? Thanks, Obama!
Mnemosyne
@Jeff Spender:
Not only do I work at a studio, we live near one of the New York Film Academy scams. Many, many dudebros with MacBooks taking up valuable Starbucks space.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Anya:
Jeff Spender
@Mnemosyne: I actually do write my stories on a pre-WW2 model Remington typewriter. Not to be all hipster but because I really like the tactile quality of that sexy old gal.
jl
@BillinGlendaleCA: Well, I saw some famous policy people you’ve seen on the TV totter around and do far worse than anything HRC is accused of and they got in less trouble than a grunt worker would get for an ill timed and placed fart.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne: You may find this difficult to believe, I’ve only been inside a Starbucks once and I’ve never purchased any of their beverages; then again, you’ve met me, so maybe not.
Brachiator
@Anya:
Do you watch Game of Thrones? Bernie is the High Sparrow offering atonement to the corrupt Democratic Party establishment. The super delegates should repent and align themselves with him for the greater glory of his version of the true progressive faith.
We will see if he still insists on backing himself into a corner on Tuesday.
? Martin
@Anya:
Well, Obama did get many superdelegates to change their vote, but that happened steadily over the course of the campaign. What Sanders is really arguing for, is that given they’ve had the opportunity to change their vote for 6-9 months now and refused to, then choosing to call them corrupt and undemocratic, that at the point that Clinton is expanding her lead, that now they should abandon her and switch to him.
RSP
@FlyingToaster:
Oh Hillary Rotten Clinton is going down and Trump is going to usher in the Capitalist Revolution and save America and the world.
I highly recommend looking up clips of Radio Graffiti on youtube, but don’t if you don’t want to. The whackos on CSPAN aren’t a good comparison since no one actually believes or means the things they say to piss off Ghost, that’s his radio host name.
burnspbesq
@Anya:
Who says irony is dead?
jl
@jl: One particularly hilarious case was finessed by fine and exquisite judgments about what kind of food and beverage stains on top secret docs that could not go home, could have reasonably be judged to only have occurred at home (where they could never be). Some real and excruciating determinations got the big shots off that time. One of the lower orders later asked what ever happened to wine and steaks we used to have at lunch in the office, and that was not considered funny.
C.S.
@Reggie Mantle: What??? All because of li’l ol’ me? How flattering! And yet you’re still here, soiling your purity by slogging through the muck with us folk. Don’t you have a Stein rally you need to be at or something?
Mnemosyne
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Yeah, not surprised. I go to Starbucks fairly often but never get coffee. I like their iced green tea.
@Jeff Spender:
I successfully transitioned to a laptop, but if someone offered me an IBM Selectric tomorrow (plus a lifetime supply of ribbon), I would snap it up in a heartbeat. Still the greatest typewriter ever made.
Raven Onthill
“I want him humiliated.”
I think you will get your wish, but more likely after the election, just as Obama did.
Once Berned, twice shy.
jl
@burnspbesq:
” Nothing is gained by pretending they didn’t. ”
And, IMHO, nothing is honest about singling out HRC for criticism if there was a long-standing, repeated, institutional problem.
Omnes Omnibus
@burnspbesq: @Omnes Omnibus: Step up. Just saying.
burnspbesq
@Mnemosyne:
I think I still have the Smith-Corona portable on which I typed two succesful bar exams.
burnspbesq
@Omnes Omnibus:
Is your Subaru over?
Brachiator
@Raven Onthill:
Very good!
Omnes Omnibus
@burnspbesq: Saab.
ETA: I called the song. All I want is the acknowledgment. Thank you in advance.
magurakurin
@? Martin:
Actually, that’s not what happened. Through the course of the campaign Obama slowly started getting more superdelegate endorsements, but not from people flipping. About 50 or so supers changed their vote but almost all of them did so in that first week in June when Obama clinched the nomination and the majority of pledged delegates. John Lewis is a notable exception as he switched his vote in February from Clinton to Obama.
Aleta
I was always looking left and right, but I’m always crashing in the same car -D Bowie
amk
berning the bridges.
berning the bridges – redux.
fuck him.
Aleta
@Omnes Omnibus:
It was amazing.
“All I Wanted Was A Car”
Omnes Omnibus
@Aleta: Not relevant.
GregB
@Brachiator:
Please, don’t make Bernie do the walk of shame.
burnspbesq
You did
Omnes Omnibus
@burnspbesq: Who did what?
Aleta
All the Roadrunning, Mark Knopfler & Emmylou Harris
Cathie from Canada
You know what I’m looking forward to? Not hearing anymore assurances about how Bernie is going to concede gracefully and campaign for Hillary, just because that’s what Hillary did in 2008.
Guess what? Bernie isn’t Hillary. He isn’t even a Democrat. He isn’t going to ever run again so he doesn’t care what the party thinks of him. He is addicted to the rallies and the cheering and he won’t quit until he is dragged from the convention hall kicking and screaming.
The party has tried to mollify him and whenever they did, he immediately asked for something even more ridiculous. Now they’re talking about a “Peoples Convention” in Philly just before the DNC, and apparently they think they can tell the Democratic Party what their platform should be. And Bernie seems to think the DNC has to let him give a Victory Address on the night before the nomination vote so that he can turn all the Hillary votes to him because he’s just such a great speaker don’t ya know..
I hope the party will hold its nomination vote on the first night. Bye-bye Bernie.
Omnes Omnibus
@Cathie from Canada: Damn, I am looking for a polite way to say, “Piss off.” I don’t disagree with you at all on the merits. OTOH I don’t get a voice in your elections. The same from you?
PatrickG
@Brachiator:
Democrats pass notes. (#NotASpoiler #TooVague)
magurakurin
@Omnes Omnibus: Don’t come in here wearing Maple Leafs jerseys either.
Aleta
@magurakurin: And leave all your butter tarts at home.
gwangung
@Reggie Mantle:
Why do people keep lying about a candidate who Sanders voted with 93% of the time and was the 11th most liberal Senator?
Cathie from Canada
@Omnes Omnibus: I appreciate that you didn’t find a polite way to tell me to piss off.
Anytime you want to comment on Justin Trudeau, feel free. I think he’s great, by the way.
magurakurin
@Aleta: especially those shitty maple flavored cookies people bring back as souvenirs. Damn Canadians, with your pleasant dispositions, friendly smiles, and constant willingness to help others.
I blame Canada
hovercraft
Cathie from Canada
@Aleta: Ooh, do you like butter tarts? You know, I just assumed that everyone did, but I guess that just applies in Canada> Other countries are sadly deprived!
hovercraft
@Cathie from Canada:
I think he’s cute. I also think that like Obama he came in after such a complete douchebag that he can’t help but disappoint.
Cathie from Canada
@magurakurin: Sorry, I was feeling a little grumpy when I wrote my first comment — too much reading at the Great Orange Satan I guess. Now that I’m thinking of butter tarts, I feel much better!
tastytone
I’ve learned many things about identity politics, demagoguery, and basic sociology during the course of these Democratic primaries. But most interesting to me is the knowledge that one can—however round-about, tedious and time-consuming the method may be—totally crowd-fund a posh trip to Italy for themselves and their family off poor people and students.
Vete a la chingada, Bernie.
divF
@Cathie from Canada: But no Timbits!
amk
@Cathie from Canada:
Fuck omnes. If he doesn’t get the meaning of innernnetz, it’s his problem
As a ferriner, +1 what you said.
Cathie from Canada
@divF: Yes, if America had butter tarts and Timbits, it would be great again!
magurakurin
@Cathie from Canada: just teasing you. I like Canada, well except for that stretch of road near Deep River, Ontario where I got hit by tractor trailer while riding a bicycle. But I always loved Squamish and climbing on the Squamish Chief out Vancouver way. And don’t mind Omnes, he bites but he doesn’t have rabies…
Aleta
@Cathie from Canada: Butter tarts and Cadbury Jersey Milk, every summer in Ontario to spend it with my father, aunts and and grandparents, who taught me how to sneak up on people by paddling a canoe without making a sound
TriassicSands
Jeebus, grow up, John. Humiliating Sanders is not the route to party unity. Or maybe losing to Trump would be worth it if only Sanders could be humiliated.
The reason Clinton supporters have to be mature is because a lot of Sanders supporters are not. I’m no fan of Clinton’s, but a Trump win would be disastrous, so anything (reasonable), between now and the election that maximizes Democratic turnout is a good idea. Which makes humiliating Sanders a very bad idea.
Betty Cracker
@Cathie from Canada: I’ve never had a butter tart, but I feel certain I’d enjoy them. Butter, sugar, etc. — what’s not to like?
Scotian
@Cathie from Canada
Wow, that first entry in this thread was a doozy, even by your standards! I thought *I* was annoyed with the Sanders campaign antics, but damn, girl, you clearly got past me on that one!
(note to people, she and I have a long history in the Canadian blogosphere, hence the familiarity, not meant as anything else)
Butter tarts? Really? Not my thing, now maple butter treats and Yorkshire puds, that is quite another…LOL. Seriously, nice seeing you, hope all it well, as you can see, I’ve been spending the past several months following the American primaries, now that the Evil One has been defeated by the King of Sunshine, I can take the time to do so.
As to the topic of the thread, and my contribution to the I suspect at this point highly unlikely 500, I’m inclined to agree with Cole re humiliation being warranted, it isn’t so much because Sanders has stretched it out so long beyond the realistic winning, it is the way he has been first attacking Clinton on character issues and then the entire process (except where he wins) as corrupt and thereby delegitimizing it and any other winner than himself, in this case Clinton. I watched the Obama/Clinton series of 2008 closely, and while yes it got ugly and harsh, that truly was the case from both sides, AND neither side went out of the way to undercut the others legitimacy overall in their wins nor attacked the core primary system as inherently corrupt. That makes what team Sanders from the head on down fundamentally different in how they have acted versus either Clinton or Obama in 2008. Not only has Sanders been undercutting legitimacy, he has continued to do so and arguably only been getting shriller about it as his inevitable end comes closer and closer.
So I find it very understandable why anyone would feel the way Cole does, and for all those Sanders people saying they need to be treated better, well, I seem to remember this cliche about you get what you give, and from the first part of this primary onward the Sanders side has been quite vocal in the trashing of not just Clinton but anyone that dared even consider her as a candidate in some of the vilest manners and language. To suddenly demand treatment you never extended now that it is inevitable that your side loses, well that seems to me to be just a wee bit hypocritical, to say the least.
satby
@Scotian:
This. Well put.
SFAW
@Reggie Mantle:
Least surprising thing I’ve read on this blog for a long time.
As I have said: you only came here to pick a fight, not to be “persuaded,” despite your claims.
Baud
I can’t believe we don’t have a T-Bogg unit yet. The primary really is coming to an end.
satby
@Baud: Thank FSM
Bobby Thomson
@Scotian: Quite so.
Bobby Thomson
@TriassicSands:
Unfortunately, now it is, precisely because of his dishonest challenges to the legitimacy of the process. It has to be made clear that Democrats across the country have rejected Sanders conclusively and not that he lost a close one because of shenanigans.
Christ, what an asshole.
Bobby Thomson
@Cathie from Canada:
This.
Matt McIrvin
@Miss Bianca:
I’ve been thinking about the dynamic over at Lawyers, Guns and Money. Most of the front-pagers there endorsed Bernie Sanders, and, for various reasons, still probably consider him a superior candidate to Clinton. But they’ve also all been openly contemptuous of Bernie-or-Busters who are going to take their ball and go home if he doesn’t get nominated. And it’s gotten them a lot of grief, usually from people who assume they were Clinton supporters all along. The Clinton people certainly don’t pick on them, not now at least. But the people who do get upset seem to fall into two camps: actual Bernie-or-Busters, and #notallsandersvoters people who are upset that they’re nutpicking the Bernie-or-Busters. Even though the people doing it are Sanders voters.
Carolyn Kay
It is SO frustrating for so many “reporters” to continue to say that Hillary only “clinches” the nomination with the help of the superdelegates.
Note to the math impaired: If there were no superdelegates, the number needed to “clinch” the nomination would be lower, and Hillary would win the nomination anyway.
Please help me pester the media to death over this mistake that only helps to inflame the Bernouts.
Reggie Mantle
@Mnemosyne:
Heh. No, not claiming that I’m David Simon, although given the propensity of certain BJ’ers to lie shamelessly about what they claim I’ve said, I expect that “you said you were David Simon!” will become a common insult around here.
Little Sonny's Bubbie
@Miss Bianca: Great comment to Lynn, who shouldn’t let the door hit her on the way out. Progress tends to be incremental. “The arc of the moral universe is long but it bends towards justice.” And I could almost certainly, off the top of my head, think of 10 terrific things that Obama did that a President McCain or Romney would not have done.
Reggie Mantle
@Miss Bianca:
Well, I have said, in so many words, I still might vote for Clinton, and the response was I had people here lying and claiming that I said I’d never vote for Clinton. So it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
Betty Cracker
@Reggie Mantle: You got pretty much the same treatment you dished out.
Matt
Proof that you can take the asshole out of the GOP but you still can’t keep him from punching hippies.
Eat a jumbo-sized bag of dicks, Cole.
Reggie Mantle
@Matt:
Remember when that was a bad thing?
Kay
Republicans here are mighty quiet about the Trumpster! :)
He didn’t win this county in the primary, partly because they had Kasich but I’m convinced he’s like from another planet to our sort of stodgy GOP base. If he was a Democrat they’d be scolding me on his “unfitness’ to grace the Oval Office.
They were more than happy to tell me Obama was “toast” in 2012. It’s just crickets on Trump. Amusing.
Shantanu Saha
What’s all this talk about primarying Bernie in New Hampshire? He’s an Independent, not a Democrat. I’m sure he’s already put in his registration for his reelection campaign as an Independent. What’s needed is for an actual Democrat to run against him, and WIN (not split the liberal vote and elect a Republican).
C.S.
@Reggie Mantle:
And as I’ve said again and again, even in the comment you claimed pulled you out of the shadows … good. Take your ball and go home. Personally, I don’t want any Sanders supporters (not that you are one, mind you, but you do play one on this blog) to do anything less than wholeheartedly support Clinton, or else take their unsullied vote into the waiting arms of Stein or some other candidate. It won’t be their ‘fault’ if Trump wins, oh no, but it also won’t be their fault when Clinton wins, and the Democratic Party won’t have to pretend that Sanders or his partisans have anything to contribute to the party going forward. The left wing of the party will be home to actual progressives, not tiresome cranks spouting warmed-over 1940s-era college dorm I-just-tried-pot-for-the-first-time-andI-think-I-like-it slogans and whose ADHD can’t let them focus on the actual hard work of progress.
Reggie Mantle
@C.S.:
So it’s not enough just to pull the lever for Clinton if you don’t ‘wholeheartedly’ support her. Anything less is thoughtcrime.
Wow. And they mock Sanders supporters about “purity ponies.”
C.S.
Yes. For Sanders dead-enders, yes. If you want to be taken seriously, yes.
Anything less is simply a reason why you should practice your preciousness elsewhere. Dr. Stein needs your vote! And she’s pure! And Trump is real and vouched for by Bernie’s own Cornel West! You should vote for someone you absolutely truly believe in.
Original Lee
While the GOP Wurlitzer is recycling Clinton oldies, I have noticed a curious gap in the hit parade: Bosnia. Wonder why?
schrodinger's cat
Not yet 500, I has a disappointed.
El Caganer
@Shantanu Saha: Primarying him in New Hampshire really wouldn’t accomplish much, since he’s a senator from Vermont.
Spacecakes
@sparrow:
hee-hee. When was the first time you ever hear the word “neoliberal”? Two months ago on a pro-Bernie facebook post, I would bet. Without using the google or the words “Hillary Clinton”, can you even define neoliberal?
J R in WV
@marilynD Southern Oregon:
And don’t let this incident slow you down… plenty of folks will make dumber comments than anything you could dream up in a feverish night sweat.
cokane
the two minute hates on here about Sanders are getting pretty darned insufferable. His campaign hasn’t been ideal, but he hasn’t lobbed any accusation or dirty trick on the level of what Clinton campaign did in 08 (Rezko attacks, Rev Wright speech leaks, Muslim garb photo leak)
chopper
@Reggie Mantle:
…about people’s statements on the war in Iraq?
hi, full of shit liar and hypocrite.
J R in WV
@Aleta:
“What would be the difference between fake swag and real swag?”
If I sell you Baud Swag, it’s fake. But if someone posting as Baud sells you swag, we can’t know if it’s fake or real.
J R in WV
@burnspbesq:
We have my Grandfather’s Oliver, which had the type bars above the platen, to avoid someone’s patent on type bars being mounted between the keyboard and the platen. It makes the machine lots bigger and heavier.
He used it to write news stories and editorials from way back (1920s or early ’30s) until his first stroke in about 1970. It’s wrapped in plastic wrap to keep some dust out, but otherwise was in perfect working order when saved away.
There are 3 or 4 others just for keepsakes, one is a Hermes which was popular with war reporters in WW II. The big Remington was my Mom’s for newspaper work at home.
grandpa john
@Carolyn Kay: The media will never give up a chance to take a swipe at HRC, best thing to do is not read or listen to the asshole media
Uncle Cosmo
@Lynn Sutherland: 73 years old–& by all appearances haven’t learned a fucking thing about politics since Sputnik went up. You weren’t missed before & you won’t be missed now. Go vote Green. Or Purple. Or Polkadot, for all anyone here cares.
Uncle Cosmo
@gf120581:
They can reinvent themselves as BADASSes: Boycott All Democrats As Sellout Shills.