After thumping Senator Bernie Sanders in Puerto Rico yesterday, Hillary Clinton is just 25 delegates shy of the prize, with delegate-rich New Jersey and California voting tomorrow. That means that after polls close in New Jersey at 8 p.m. Eastern time tomorrow, the networks will likely tell us that Hillary Clinton has amassed enough delegates to become the Democratic Party’s candidate for president.
It won’t be official until the convention, of course. But the primaries will be effectively over tomorrow — even for the folks who’ve been basking for weeks on the sunny banks of De Nial. The only remaining drama will be what Sanders chooses to do when confronted with the latest inescapable math. The signs have not been encouraging. But there’s still time for Sanders to do the right thing.
And that matters to me, not because I give a crap about Sanders’ future in the Democratic Party or believe that we’ll need the Bernie-or-Busters onboard to defeat Trump. The political fate of a single senator doesn’t much interest me, and I am convinced that the vast majority of Sanders voters will be with us this fall, consigning the Busted to the irrelevancy that was the well-deserved fate of their PUMA predecessors.
But I do care about mainstreaming some of the ideas Sanders brought to the table. I’d like to see “democratic socialism” become as acceptable a political concept to Americans as the much less reputable “evangelical conservatism” already is. I’d rather us take a more evenhanded approach to the Israeli-Palestinian question. I’m for getting PACs and corporations out of politics.
Even though he will not be the nominee, Sanders has succeeded in his original aim: He got his issues front and center and demonstrated that a candidate can credibly compete without big money donors. It will be a damned shame — and a setback for the party — if he undercuts those accomplishments with a pointless nomination fight.
Reggie Mantle
We’ll see. A lot depends on whether Hillary is smarter than some of her supporters or whether she’ll follow the GOP-like YOU GET NOTHING! GO THE FUCK AWAY! line her adherents seem to prefer.
Bobby Thomson
At least Vermont will benefit.
schrodinger's cat
Pointless is his middle name. So that’s how St. Bernard the pure hearted will proceed.
Dan
@Reggie Mantle:
Everything she’s said about Sanders and his supporters indicates that she’s aware that she needs to extend an olive branch or two. Why do you think Sanders got to name supporters to the platform committee? that’s literally unprecedented for the loser to have that kind of sway over the platform.
Mike in NC
Screw that doddering old man. On a related note, Drumpf has inspired a whole lot of would-be grifters. Local TV on Sunday ran three back-to-back ads from clowns running for local office. All of them were basically “I’m not a politician. I’m a conservative Christian small businessman out to block the liberal agenda of so-and-so” (he being the incumbent Republican).
MattF
We’ll see, soon. Particularly after the heavy-hitters (e.g., Obama, Warren, Biden, + others) weigh in.
Unabogie
@Reggie Mantle: Didn’t you get enough abuse last night? Also, I hope your employer pays you overtime for all this nonsense.
magurakurin
@Reggie Mantle:
YOU GET NOTHING! GO THE FUCK AWAY!
for all you do, this Bud’s for you Mickey Jackson.
satby
@Reggie Mantle: it’s already been pointed out to you how lame it is to predicate your vote on what people on blogs say rather than what the actual candidates say. But continue to flog that sad, dead horse if you want.
magurakurin
@Bobby Thomson: I’ll be sending Al money, that is for sure.
OzarkHillbilly
This.
Reggie Mantle
@Dan:
As I’ve said before, she’s taken steps in the right direction. We’ll see if her natural predilection for “triangulation” and the desires of her supporters to “humiliate” Sanders and his supporters lead her back to hippie punching.
Unabogie
@satby: It’s more like “continue to fuck that rat”. This guy is an actual Bernie supporter like Trump is an actual sane person.
Betty Cracker
@Reggie Mantle: Fortunately, most Sanders supporters won’t require a tuggie before they’ll vote for the only candidate standing between them and President Trump.
satby
@Bobby Thomson: And if he really runs, Giordano is getting a contribution from me. Bernie needs a taste of his own medicine.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@Reggie Mantle: Dude, WTF is your deal? Why does mommy need to put a band-aid on your boo boo? Either vote for her or not, WTFever, it’s on you. Here’s a pancake recipe for you.
Reggie Mantle
@Betty Cracker:
The new Clinton campaign: a noun, a verb, and “Donald Trump.”
Woodrowfan
@Mike in NC: Trumps campaign chair in Virginia, who is running for governor (in 2017) is playing the anti-THEM! card for all it’s worth. “We will kick their asses out of the country” To be fair, that’s how he’s advanced in politics in the state anyway, being rabidly anti-Hispanic.
James E Powell
This is one of the most persistent fantasies of the political spectator class.
Elizabelle
@Reggie Mantle: Speaking of GO THE FUCK AWAY, I wish you would do that.
You are nothing but a stick in the eye.
I think Betty’s blogpost was very gracious, and I would love to see Sanders’ ideas join mainstream political thought. They’re much more realistic than any of the conservatard ideas that Very Important People discuss. We will be a better polity if we discuss inequality (and compensation) and opportunity via education and meaningful work. Past time to have that discussion.
Now. Go the fuck away. Find another blog. You add nothing here.
I would also ask those appearing later to not engage you. Maybe inaction will send you yonder.
MattF
@Reggie Mantle: Is that supposed to be an argument of some sort?
Woodrowfan
@Reggie Mantle: so what. Bernie’s is “a noun, a verb, Hillary.” At least she’s attacking republicans.
James E Powell
@Reggie Mantle:
This is a question in your mind?
Unabogie
@Reggie Mantle: You should know since his name appears on your paltry paycheck, you little pissant troll. Now go away.
Reggie Mantle
@Elizabelle:
Yeah, like that’s gonna happen. You can’t help yourselves. Thoughtcrime must be punished.
MattF
@Elizabelle: I’ve been ignoring him, but I think that posting meaningless comments should be noted. It’s a signal.
Reggie Mantle
@MattF:
More of an observation. And I’m not the first person who’s noticed.
burnspbesq
@Reggie Mantle:
If you’re the sort of sociopath who can support Trump with a clear conscience just because your fee-fees got hurt on a two-bit blog, there’s really no space for a coversation with you.
magurakurin
@Reggie Mantle: If it includes punching you, I’m all for it.
Reggie Mantle
@burnspbesq:
And yet, you keep on conversing, if by “conversing” you mean “spittle flecked raging and shrieking GO THE FUCK AWAY.”
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
Howard Dean for Senate.
Make it happen. Like Cole, I want Sanders clubbed like a baby seal, and purity progressives to take stock of their aims.
magurakurin
@Reggie Mantle: works for me.
amk
Great. The useless trump troll already hijacked the thread.
OzarkHillbilly
@Reggie Mantle: Still not listening when a woman talks? Or just when it’s convenient for you?
Kay
Portman in Ohio is running calm ads about how he cares about people and works in a bipartisan fashion. It’s interesting though how he’s focusing on touchy-feely rather than economic issues because the truth is he HAS worked with Sherrod Brown on currency/trade.
I feel like he can’t highlight that aspect because he’s really the definition of a “Money Party” Republican, so he’s limited to “social issues” like opiate abuse.
magurakurin
@Betty Cracker:
Just like his boss, Donald Trump. Thin skinned and small hands. Tiny pecker and fake hair. Birds of a feather.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
OT – there are so many media sat trucks outside the Ali Center that food trucks have now set up station. It’s kind of a pain in the ass.
Reggie Mantle
@magurakurin:
Y’all take a really strange interest in my genitalia and what you think I’m doing with them.
Elizabelle
@MattF: indeed. and hola there.
Mai.naem.mobile
Is it possible that Reggie Mantle is a RNC paid troll? I’m not happy with Bernie but I trust Harry Reid and he says Bernie and his people will back into the fold. And unless toi can giarantee a Maine like situation not haappening in Vt stop talking about primarying Sanders.
cmorenc
What I especially resent about some of the Sanders dead-enders (lookin’ at YOU Susan Sarandon) is how they seem to be openly “rooting for injuries” to Clinton, such as a possible indictment from the email molehill. This goes beyond the “Clinton / the DC cheated” or their wilful incompetence at delegate math – such as the fact that even if the Super-Delegates in each state were forced to vote proportionately according to the results of their respective state caucuses and primaries – Clinton would still easily cross the required number to clinch the nomination.
Reggie Mantle
@magurakurin:
Of course you are. Just like Donald Trump is for punching people who don’t agree with him.
MomSense
POTUS has an unspecified fundraising trip to NY scheduled for Wednesday. I’m thinking it’s going to be yooge and not a private fundraising event.
satby
@Elizabelle: To be scrupulously fair, he did post an interesting and useful link in the Ramadan thread. First and only time I can recall where he added value to a thread rather than disrupting it. Too good to last, evidently.
magurakurin
@Mai.naem.mobile: possible? It is an absolute certainty. He is a paid troll. No question. I shouldn’t respond to him but I just saw Civil War so I think I’m an Avenger now. It’ll pass.
Ramping Up
Perfect timing! Roger Clinton arrested for DUI in California.
magurakurin
@Reggie Mantle: what’s that response from, page 26 or 28 of the manual?
Reggie Mantle
@cmorenc:
Reminds me of the Republicans who, when the Iraq War* was going badly, claimed Democrats were “cheering for our defeat.” Recognizing that something bad might happen is not “rooting for it.”
*Remember the Iraq War? Clinton voted for it.
Betty Cracker
@Kay: What’s your sense on where that race is headed?
Reggie Mantle
@magurakurin:
“It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so.”
Ramping Up
@Reggie Mantle:
As I’ve said before, the Democrat Party is now a wholly owned subsidiary of Clinton, Inc. It exists to get the Clintons rich. I thought Obama maybe broke the cartel but that illusion was soon shattered when he picked her as SoS. The Clintons were always the power behind the throne and have been since 1993.
dmsilev
My guess (and only a guess) as to how the next week or so plays out:
Tomorrow evening, Secretary Clinton passes 2383 delegates at roughly 8:01 Eastern, right when the polls close in NJ. Later in the evening, after a reasonable fraction of the California votes have been counted, she passes 2026 pledged delegates. The networks, the newspapers, etc., start calling her the presumptive nominee, and she gives a nice speech thanking her supporters, calling out for unity, and slamming Trump. Senator Sanders holds to his current position that it isn’t over until the convention.
On Wednesday, Barack Obama endorses Hillary. He says some nice things about Sanders and his supporters, but makes it abundantly clear that in his view, the primary is over.
Thursday through Monday, pretty much all of the remaining undeclared supers declare for Hillary. This includes Elizabeth Warren. Also, at least some of the supers who had announced support for Sanders switch to Clinton, saying that they will honor the decision of the voters. Privately, Senators start calling Bernie and telling him that the longer he continues, the less anyone will listen to him.
Tuesday next, Clinton wins DC in a romp. Soon after, Sanders concedes. It will be a grumpy concession, but it will be a concession. The world continues to spin on its axis.
magurakurin
@Reggie Mantle: whatever chief. You’re a paid ratfucker. You know it, I know it, plenty of others know it. In a month or two, you’ll be gone. Like the legions who have come and gone before you.
magurakurin
@dmsilev: a quite plausible scenario.
Grumpy Code Monkey
@Mai.naem.mobile: I seriously doubt the RNC is paying people to troll any political blogs, much less BJ. Cole doesn’t have that much juice (no offense). And I always assume it’s DougJ fucking with the commentariat anyway.
No,
JugheadArchieReggie’s doing this for “fun”.Reggie Mantle
I have to laugh. First it’s a “two bit blog” and no one should ever base their vote on anything that anyone posts in it. Then it’s so important that you claim the RNC is paying me to post here, to sow dissension and…what? Influence votes?
Logic. How the fuck does it work?
MattF
@Elizabelle: Hola. Do you have, or have you seen Robert Hughes’ book about Barcelona?
Betty Cracker
@dmsilev: That sounds like a reasonable timetable and plausible prediction of the outcome.
magurakurin
@Grumpy Code Monkey:
same difference then, I suppose. Either way, he’ll be gone before very long.
Ramping Up
@Reggie Mantle:
Seen the latest on Orgy Island?
Disgusting! Is that the kind of person you want to vote for?
Patricia Kayden
@MattF: I’ve been ignoring him too. Ditto “Ramping Up” and “srv”.
@MomSense: I assume that President Obama has been quietly preparing to support Secretary Clinton for awhile now. Thankfully, we’re getting close to the time when he can openly campaign and support her. Looking forward to him campaining for her and getting out the vote.
MattF
@dmsilev: I agree. And, fwiw, I don’t think it matters very much what Sanders does or says after Obama and Warren have endorsed HRC.
Shell
Ooh, wasn’t Monday supposed to be the day Trump strikes with his blistering come-back speech to Hillary’s? Ill be waiting!
Patricia Kayden
@dmsilev: Yep. I think you’ve summed it up nicely. There is zero reason to continue the charade that Senator Sanders has any chance of being our Presidential nominee and I see no reasons for President Obama not to come out publicly with his support for Secretary Clinton. We need to start pummelling The Donald NOW. Secretary Clinton started the ball rolling with her fantastic foreign policy speech last week.
Keith G
I just want to show the repeated text from Betty because it is prescient, rational and well communicated.
Sanders had room to flourish (in as much as he did) because there was, and continues to be, unfulfilled needs. I think it is essential to separate the candidate from the needs and to separate both of those from the hyper-emotional combat that seems to be a legacy of politics in this part of the digital age.
Sanders has an important choice to make, if he has not already made it. As Betty points out, he has won quite a bit and in the process he has highlighted ideas important to improving this society. If he and is inner circle can rationally focus on the big picture, he will declare a “victory” and move on. Doing so not only avoids a fight that he cannot win, but it will be the solid way to further build and protect the focus on the ideas that he cares about. I think that that eventually will be his choice.
Chyron HR
@Reggie Mantle:
Remember when Sanders’ cunning plan to win the Democratic primary by running against the massively popular sitting Democratic president backfired on him, and he started whining that Clinton was “pandering” by refusing to join him in his folly?
Good times.
Germy Shoemangler
@Patricia Kayden:
I’m curious what Elizabeth Warren will say about Sanders and Clinton.
I know what she’s said about Trump.
I could be wrong, but it seems she’s been quiet during the primary (unless I missed something) and I wonder if next week she gives her full support to Clinton.
Woodrowfan
When the primary season started I heavily leaned towards Bernie. The Bernie-bro diehards and the man himself eventually turned me into a Clinton supporter. I haven’t been this un-enthused about the Democratic nominee since Dukakis. But damn, if you can’t see how she’s much more liberal than Trump you have some seriously think blinders on.
Ramping Up
@Shell:
Could be today, maybe tomorrow.
But it’s coming….don’t you worry!
schrodinger's cat
Reggie Mantle and Ramping Up are heh indeeding each other. Coincidence? I think not.
Gin & Tonic
@Ramping Up: I forget. What office is Bill Clinton running for?
Patricia Kayden
@Shell: How many times can he call her “Crooked Hillary” or other names before the media and electorate start rolling their eyeballs? Unfortunately for Trump, he has no substantive way to address her attacks on his “policies”. I love how he has double downed on his claim that there are certain classes of people who should not be judges (Latinos, Muslims). He keeps making Secretary Clinton’s job easier since pissing off whole swaths of voters is a sure way to lose a general election.
dmsilev
@Shell: Sorry, that was yesterday’s prediction. According to the representative from the Ministry of Truth posting above, today’s prediction is that Bill Clinton’s dick will doom Hillary.
Edit: Apparently MiniTrue has let it be known that the genius of Trump will deliver a speech on the same day as the California and New Jersey etc. primaries.
starscream
My take on the trolls: Ramping Up is pretty clearly in it to stir shit up, and is possibly getting paid. Reggie Mantle, on the other hand, appears to be a true believer in a way that makes me sad for our school system.
The rest of you need to stop responding to everything they say. Do you actually think you’re going to convince them of anything? All you’re doing is hurting the signal to noise ratio in the comments section.
magurakurin
@schrodinger’s cat: they are the same person, aren’t they?
Betty Cracker
@Grumpy Code Monkey: Yeah, I’m always skeptical of claims that so-and-so is a paid troll. I don’t doubt such creatures exist — they’re just more likely to infest more influential online hubs, is my guess, and they’d likely use more effective tactics, or else their paymasters are pouring money down a rat hole. Trolling is a weird way to get your kicks, but lord knows people do much weirder things with their free time.
@Patricia Kayden: I’m looking forward to President Obama sharing more of his thoughts about Trump. I hope he brings up Trump’s overtly racist and pathetic birther activities since the Beltway press is letting Trump get away with saying he “doesn’t talk about it any more.”
Patricia Kayden
@Germy Shoemangler: I’m pretty confident that Senator Warren will support Secretary Clinton 100% once this primary season is over (which thankfully is very soon). She’s already giving the business to Trump and I can see her continuing to do so throughout the general election period in support of Secretary Clinton’s candidacy. While I keep hearing that she may be under consideration as Clinton’s VP, I think she’s fine where she is.
schrodinger's cat
@magurakurin: That is my working hypothesis. Ramping up likes to make up handles that begin with an R.
magurakurin
@starscream:
guilty as charged. sorry. I’m done. I won’t do it anymore. You are, of course, absolutely correct…no snark intended.
MattF
@Germy Shoemangler: I think Warren’s own ambitions come into play here. She doesn’t want to piss off the generic Sanders supporter. OTOH, she’s well aware of the stakes here. To repeat, politics ain’t beanbag.
SFAW
@Reggie Mantle:
You keep trying to pick fights, so you’ll say any stupid thing, if you think it will provoke. A less disingenuous way might be to insult someone’s mother. But, if you think attempting to disguise your real purpose here will work, then by all means, knock yourself out, little fella.
Ramping Up
I am not Reggie Mantle. Yes, there are people who dislike Hillary. I know it’s hard to believe, but it’s true and doesn’t require elaborate theories of sockpuppetry.
Germy Shoemangler
I see that Rubio won Puerto Rico.
Did he really drop out or did he merely suspend?
Cermet
@dmsilev: Sounds logical.
MomSense
@schrodinger’s cat:
Have we ever seen SRV and Ramping Up in the same blog at the same time?
magurakurin
@Germy Shoemangler: I think was back in March though when he won PR. And yes, I believe they all just suspended their campaigns.
Patricia Kayden
@Betty Cracker: “No F’s to give” Obama will say whatever he needs to say to hit Trump upside his huuuuge Orange head. And yes, he should go after Trump’s claim that he wasn’t born in this country and thus was ineligible to be President. Are we all supposed to forget that Trump allegedly sent investigators to Hawaii to investigate President Obama’s birthplace?
The whole birther claim is nothing but racism and Trump has shown over and over again that he is a racist, with supporters who are racists, and who retweets from racists all of the dang time. Everyone on our side should be bringing this up over and over again even if the MSM isn’t pursuing this subject as it should.
Reggie Mantle
@magurakurin:
Nope. I know that it’s common for people to try and comfort themselves by pretending that all of the people who don’t toe their line are the same person. But here at least, there’s only one me.
Of course, another way people try and dodge reality is by accusing people of lying when they hear inconvenient facts, but hey, I’ve already seen the lie perpetrated here that “well, he doesn’t deny it, so it must be true.” Not like truth has any place here.
MattF
@MomSense: Hmm. Did you check in threads that have telephone booths? He may be a quick-change artist.
Patricia Kayden
@Germy Shoemangler: Politico claims “suspends”.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/03/rubio-suspends-presidential-campaign-220827
Chyron HR
@Ramping Up:
Well, his story checks out.
Cermet
@Woodrowfan: Ditto
A Ghost To Most
@Ramping Up:
Yeh, you don’t require elaborate theories to sockpuppet – it is just business for you and the rest of the Hitler Youth.
inventor
I believe that Sanders hasn’t released his tax returns as he has repeatedly promised because it will show how he and his wife destroyed the University of Burlington for their personal gain.
It speaks to the fact that Sanders is simply a con man.
How else can you explain the gross dishonesty of the Sanders champaign campaign? Just look at the extreme luxury he had his supporters pay for when he pulled that stunt with the Pope. He really is just a dishonest grifter only out for himself.
Ramping Up
@Patricia Kayden:
Trump is all up in Obama’s head already. Attacking? He can barely get the words off he’s so intimidated by a real Alpha Male like Trump:
The Sheriff's A Ni-
Who cares about trolls. She’s going to win, they’ll continue to shitpost for attention, the caravan moves on.
I’m with Betty on thinking on how to better mainstream Sanders’s better points. Fortunately, we do have Senator Warren and Reps Ellison and Turner to help.
OzarkHillbilly
@magurakurin: But where’s the fun in that?
Chyron HR
@Reggie Mantle:
Remember when Sanders went around the country ranting that Clinton called him “quote unqualified unquote”, even though that alleged quote was entirely fabricated by his own overactive imagination?
Good times.
Ramping Up
@Reggie Mantle:
Right on! They just can’t believe there are millions and millions of people out there utterly disgusted by the Clinton Cartel–on the left AND right.
oldgold
BS’s current process arguments make no sense.
If BS had won more delegates through voting and caucusing than HC, I could understand an attack on the super delegates or concede he had a legitimate argument for persuading them to vote for him. But given HC has won significantly more delegates through voting and caucusing over this 6 month contest, how BS can lay claim to the nomination is at best baffling and at worst deranged.
He now has a decision to make. Take credit for what he has accomplished and use his power to inform the future of the Democratic Party or be abandoned on the worst political island imaginable – Sore Loser Isle.
I hope he listens to is better angels.
nonynony
@Mai.naem.mobile:
No. The RNC is not paying people to troll this blog. The RNC barely has enough cash on hand to pay its own people for this election, let alone pay pennies to trolls.
The trolls we get around here do it from the Lulz. It’s pretty clear that Reggie likes to get under people’s skin and irritate them – he’s pointing it out right here in this comment section that what he’s doing is irritating people because “they can’t help” but respond to him.
It’s all for the lulz – paid trolls don’t hang out at small political blogs. Anyone paying trolls is paying them to troll newspaper comment sections or YouTube or other places where their comments might be viewed by more than a hundred people and might actually make an impact. And even then they’re idiots – they’d get more bang for their buck placing astroturf “letters to the editor” in newspapers than trolling comment sections.
Our most famous resident troll – “Right to Rise” aka “UNLIMITED CORPORATE CASH” – clearly gets his ego stroked by people who actually believe that he’s paid to troll here and tick people off. He isn’t – he’s doing it for the lulz just like all of the other trolls who do drive bys here. heck I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that one or two of the Sanders trolls (not supporters – the actual TROLLS who post only to stir shit up) are actually “Right To Rise” playing a different role. That’s what trolls do – they flit from persona to persona doing whatever they can to irritate everyone. The ones who really get into the hobby will use proxies to make it look like different personas are coming from different addresses. It’s all fun and games for them – which is why the best advice anyone can give with a troll is to just not engage with it – because you can’t win, they have the advantage of being able to say whatever the fuck they want and move goalposts all day because they don’t actually believe anything they’re saying.
(See also Trump, Donald – the first troll to run for president on a platform of pure trolling.)
magurakurin
@OzarkHillbilly: I’ll leave it up to Omnes. And good ole Raven will always please with a hardy “fuck off, punk.” I’ll leave it to the masters.
Patricia Kayden
@starscream: Agreed. If everyone would just ignore them, they’d stop commenting. Otherwise, the comment section turns into a them against everyone else mess. It’s a waste of time to argue the same points over and over with people who have no intention of listening.
@Woodrowfan: I wasn’t initially excited about Secretary Clinton but she’s growing on me. I’m excited about the fact that she will make history as the first woman President. I’m very proud to be a member of a political party which has given us the first Black President and the first potential woman President back to back. That says a lot about our party’s comfort with diversity and equality.
MomSense
@MattF:
Once it shows up, the threads become infested because we can’t seem to resist feeding the trolls. I’ve been avoiding them for that reason.
Reggie Mantle
@Gin & Tonic:
First Gentleman, I think it’s called. All that said, that Virginia Roberts story has the smell of tabloid bullshit all over it, and I’m not buying it. Plenty to criticize Hillary over without Daily Mail BS.
Shell
@Ramping Up: Your Snark-O-Meter is obviously broken.
Im looking forward to Trumps next speech as well, just to enjoy his continued melt-down.
SFAW
@magurakurin:
I guess it’s possible. What IS known is that Racist Hump and Rotting Along are the same person.
Which brings me to another question: I saw the explanations (last night) as to why various commenters do or do not get banned. As I understanding it, racism, sexism/misogyny, and stalking are the three main reasons. Fair enough.
But what I want to know is: if someone has been banned for racism — such as Racist Hump/Rotting Along/RtR — does changing their nym/nom wipe the slate clean? Do the mods (well, Cole, really) decide that “they’ve learned their lesson, they’re no longer racist”? Because if that were the case, anyone here could pen (so to speak) the most vile, hate-filled, racist and sexist screed, get banned, and then come back as someone else and “it’s all good.” Maybe that was also explained, and I missed it, but I’d be interested in hearing whether/why it’s OK.
raven
The real goal of these fucking assholes is to make this blog unreadable.
nonynony2
Hey – for some reason I’m not able to post under my regular name/e-mail address combo anymore. Have I been blacklisted or something?
Joel
@Reggie Mantle: What is it you want, exactly?
OzarkHillbilly
@Ramping Up:
It’s not hard to believe at all. Especially considering the fact that many of us who voted for her don’t like her either. So why did we vote for her if we don’t like her? Easy: We are not voting for Bestest Friended Everer, we are voting for the next president of the US and as such we feel the need to vote for the person we feel is best for that job and most likely to accomplish something worthwhile in the next 4 years.
Sorry, Bernie just didn’t make the cut.
Woodrowfan
@Patricia Kayden:
fair enough. If it was Warren I’d be excited! But I don’t need to be excited about a candidate to support them. it just makes it more fun. 8-)
Patricia Kayden
@inventor: Or maybe it shows that he is wealthier than his supporters would expect — especially for an avowed Democratic Socialist. Who really knows? I suppose it doesn’t matter since he will not be the nominee. For the future, the Democratic Party may want to change its rules to require that all Presidential candidates MUST release their tax returns at the beginning of the primary season.
Reggie Mantle
@Joel:
It just really gripes your asses that someone dares push back against all the Bernie-bashing, doesn’t it?
magurakurin
@inventor: It has always seemed odd to me why Sanders didn’t release his taxes. I would think it would be a badge of honor him paying taxes. Personally, I would have no problem showing anyone anytime my returns. I have a box of them that go back to 1992. Poor people’s tax returns don’t take up much space. I’ve never owned a home, never made more than 40 grand in a year and that much only very recently. In ’93 my gross income was just a wee bit north of 9 thousand dollars. Why doesn’t Bernie release his taxes? It is odd. But at this point utterly meaningless and I could care less if he does or not.
Woodrowfan
@OzarkHillbilly:
Amen!
Brachiator
No, no, no. Uncle Bernie has finger wagged at the networks and demanded that they say nothing until Susan Sarandon and a crack team of ballot counters have applied Bernie-math to the super delegate count and assured that we can have a contested convention. Dopes.
People care about jobs and security against threats (even if this fear is overblown). The ideas that Sanders has brought to the table are good, but they are of secondary importance to the majority of Americans, who care more about getting a decent wage than the clash of “democratic socialism” vs “evangelical conservatism.” And Sanders biggest weakness was in clearly demonstrating how his pet ideas could be implemented to bring any improvement to the economy. Maybe this will be the job of the next generation of Bernie-ites.
I’d like to see “democratic socialism” become as acceptable a political concept to Americans as the much less reputable “evangelical conservatism” already is. I’d rather us take a more evenhanded approach to the Israeli-Palestinian question. I’m for getting PACs and corporations out of politics.
Yes, this was a good result. However, I keep reading that Bernie did not bring financial help to other Democrats and that he was running out of cash in the last days of the primary. All this stuff is too expensive, but Bernie did demonstrate that it is the candidate, not just the piles of money propping up any anonymous stiff, that matters.
Unsympathetic
@Ramping Up:
As opposed, of course, to your Rethuglican powers-that-be?
You haven’t vomited forth a single concept [or insult, or policy, etc] that ALEC didn’t tell you to have.
Patricia Kayden
@raven: Exactly. You have to skip their assinine comments and then skip any comments responding to their assinine comments. It does make it harder to navigate the comments section which I assume is their intention through November.
gene108
@amk:
I do not understand why folks just cannot scroll on by.
*******************************
The BIG DIFFERENCE between evangelic conservatism and democratic socialism has to come down to results. Evangelic conservatism, i.e. the modern Republican Party, has become so entrenched in dogma that sticking to the dogma is more important than actual results of governing. There are a large number of folks, who want to go along with this way of thinking for whatever reason.
I do not think a Democratic Socialist agenda can veer off into wing-nut territory, where actual results do not matter.
The thing that would be better than just talking about single-payer, paid sick leave, etc. is working out the details of how that stuff would work.
Sanders has a platform to raise money for left-wing policy wonks (Sarandon, and other rich Bernie supporters, for one could put some money down For the Revolution) to actual get some funding to study these matters and figure out how to make it work.
But he seems to be squandering it in carping about super delegates and a rigged system.
I think he’s going to be remembered more for calling out Democratic “corruption” than his Democratic Socialist values, because the “corruption” theme seems to be what’s sticking with his supporters, rather than a belief they can effect change.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
My mouse’s scroll function was invented for Reggie, Rumping Up and BiP, thankfully. srv once in a while gets a look-see. No point in engaging with sea lions.
Last September when the first debates were happening I had a political discussion with a group of women friends, and since they know how politically aware and aligned I am, they asked for my opinions on the candidates, as they presented then. There was one friend who preferred Clinton to Obama in 2008, and two friends who are conservative Republicans. Two were not very up to speed on politics. At that time I said I liked Bernie, and didn’t like Hillary, and that no one would be able to stop Trump. Since then, my contempt for Bernie and his supporters has even surprised me, to the point where if you’re a deadend Bernfeeler, I feel the same as when I find out someone’s a Trump supporter. When he failed miserably to get the support of the Democratic base as evidenced by the Super Tuesday results, then dismissed those results with every goal post moving, whining bullshit excuse, amplified by his dudebro entitled asshole supporters, he was dead to me. If he does the right thing this week, it will be his first time ever. The guy’s a total fraud who will never accept that he’s just another mediocre back bencher who alienates everyone who tries to accomplish things. The tax return thing just infuriates me, and Jane Sanders and Jeff Weaver can both go DIAF.
John D
@raven: Install the Troll-Be-Gone filter. It’s eaten half this thread for me, but man, is it ever so much nicer.
burnspbesq
OT but interesting, and perhaps a bit depressing:
The Swiss had their national referendum on a proposed UBI over the weekend. Only 23 percent of those who voted said “yes,” and apparently the exit polling found a lot of xenophobia on the “no” side.
MattF
@OzarkHillbilly: Well, yes. Also, you’re going to be voting for a politician of some stripe– and while he/she may not be the person of your dreams, the alternative is someone like Trump or Perot.
Reggie Mantle
@OzarkHillbilly:
Guess you didn’t get the memo. You have to “whole-heartedly” support Hillary.
Raven Onthill
Hillary Clinton’s funding and elite support comes from the bankers, who hate socialism in all its forms, and the militarist faction, which is aligned with Israel. Her sympathies are very much aligned with those supporters. I don’t see how the Clinton campaign can compromise on these things. I think at most we will see symbolic gestures, quickly abandoned after Clinton becomes President.
If you — if anyone reading — had wanted that outcome, you would have done better to support Sanders.
I am also left wondering if the Clintons regard Trump as the greatest threat, or the left of their own party.
Fair Economist
Guys and gals, DNFTT! It doesn’t really care about Hillary, it’s just trying to waste your time.
I’m with Betty. I’ve been supporting Hillary the whole time, but I was really excited to see Bernie get so much supporte, especially among the youngs. Then I was horrified to to Bernie telling all these people that it’s corrupt for Democratic politician to campaign for each other and in many ways push them into third-party activity that will bury socialism for another generation. This whole Bernie campaign has been quite an experience in emotional and intellectual whiplash for me.
Unsympathetic
@Patricia Kayden:
His asinine comments. No two people talk/write/comment that similarly.
Instead of the blognames he uses, just refer to him as John Miller.
OzarkHillbilly
@SFAW: I think it is linked to the IP address.
SFAW
@Joel:
You’ll notice that he didn’t respond to the question you asked.
As I’ve said plenty of times: all he wants to do is pick a fight. Probably to drag any/all threads where he appears down. He originally tried to pretend that he wanted to be persuaded why he should vote for Hillary. That has been shown to be complete bullshit, he never considered voting for her.
The only question remaining is: is he a Bernie-or-Bust-er, or a TrumpChump?
burnspbesq
@gene108:
Bernie has never come within a thousand miles of being able to implement any of his ideas, and I think somewhere along the way he lost interest in implementation issues. ‘Sides, liberal think tanks are part of the corrupt system, dontcha know.
Fair Economist
@Raven Onthill:
Where does this nonsense come from? Hillary’s gotten more money from teachers than from bankers. *AND* 2/3 of her “banker” money comes from Soros and one other ideologue whose name I forget.
Chyron HR
@Reggie Mantle:
1) Are you here to compel people to stop criticizing Sanders, or just to punish them for doing so?
2) Why here?
Betty Cracker
@SFAW: Can’t speak for anyone else with keys to the joint, but if I banned someone for racism / sexism / doxxing / stalking, I’d ban-hammer that commenter again if he or she showed up under another nym. I’ve heard folks refer to this clown who is obviously the troll who used to post under “Right to Rise” and similar nyms being banned for racism, but I must’ve missed that incident. Anyone got a link?
Reggie Mantle
@Raven Onthill:
Absolutely. All this sneering about “purity ponies” and hating on the new voters Sanders brought into the process definitely makes you wonder. Of course, they try to excuse their hatred of the Left by claiming they’re all just Trump supporters anyway.
Brachiator
@magurakurin:
This was one of the things that disqualified Bernie for me. The tax returns of a candidate may not be of critical importance, but it annoyed me that Bernie would keep carping about corruption, while refusing to release this information. And any claims about difficulty in pulling the information together was ridiculous. If you decide to run for president, you obviously learn what the obligations and expectations will be.
Citizen_X
@Joel:
Attention.
Mike in DC
I do think Berne will concede by the 17th, 3 days after the last primary. The rationale for a contested convention is just too weak, and I do think the super delegates are likely to validate the results of the primaries. While Sanders, on paper, performs better against Trump at this point, Clinton also beats Trump and certainly is not a sure loser in the fall. So even that argument can’t carry the day. I am hoping that this is a ploy to get a little bit more influence on the party and the platform. Otherwise it starts to look like a ratfuck.
hovercraft
@Elizabelle:
These whinny ass trolls keep lecturing everyone about tone. And here is Mrs. Cracker being gracious and generous and they still bitch.
Listen up Lucy when you win you get to set the terms of surrender. When you lose but are still offered concessions, you accept them and say thank you.
The Thin Black Duke
@raven: Thank you.
SFAW
@OzarkHillbilly:
Perhaps, but I doubt it. Rotting Along posted here for a few days/weeks before getting banned. As best as I can tell, it was known that he was just the latest version of RightToRise (who was banned for racist comment(s), I believe). Racist Hump (a/k/a “Ramping Up”) is the same person. This is also known.
Trolls changing their IP addresses is not uncommon, as far as I can tell. But once a mod learns that a previously-banned troll has returned, they should be able to re-ban.
burnspbesq
@Brachiator:
It’s historically highly unusual for the Supremes to reverse themselves that starkly, so you’re in effect saying you want to tweak the First Amendment–and that’s where you lose me. Even if you could come up with a narrowly tailored tweak and get it ratified by 38 state legislatures, the minute you establish that the First Amendment is open for tweaking, you can kiss the Exercise Clause goodbye.
Reggie Mantle
@Chyron HR:
As I’ve said before…keep this echo chamber from being quite as echo-ey.
Also, too: your Empress has serious negatives, and you’re going to need every vote, but so far, you seem content to dismiss and despise 10 million plus voters (while kidding yourselves that they’ll just fall in line no matter how much you shit on them).
Just wanted to show that some of Sanders’ supporters aren’t going to just sit still for the abuse.
John D
@Mike in DC:
Using the traditional definition of “contested convention” to mean “no winner on the first ballot”, it doesn’t MATTER what the rationale is. It’s not happening.
Bernie can stamp his feet and pout and whine, but the first ballot will be won by Clinton and she will move from “presumed nominee” to “nominee”. All the rest is just heat, light, and fury signifying nothing.
FlipYrWhig
Did Bernie Sanders succeed in “getting his issues front and center”? I question that. I think he succeeded in getting a bunch of arguments about the nomination process and fundraising front and center. But everything else fell by the wayside long ago. We haven’t been talking about income inequality or climate change or free college or tax rates or national health-care or war and peace or anything like that for months. And you know why? Because Bernie Sanders is such a dipshit that he decided to waste his access to the short-attention-span media by blathering on endlessly about speech transcripts and primary logistics, and the Berniacs are so high on their own supply that they decided to undertake a campaign devoted to old sound bites (20 YEARS AGO SHE SAID THE WORD SUPERPREDATORS!) and the arcana of email archiving policy. It’s been a spectacular squandering of an unanticipated opportunity, and anyone who cares at all about the future of American progressivism should point the finger at Bernie Sanders for how badly he’s fucked it up.
Xantar
@Patricia Kayden:
I honestly don’t know about srv sometimes. Every once in a while it posts something that dings my sarcasm meter and makes me think it’s all just performance art (or a DougJ puppet).
SFAW
@Betty Cracker:
It was about 3 to 6 months ago. Don’t recall the exact thread or date. He spent a lot of time trying to pretend that his racist comments were not racist, and someone — John? AL? I don’t know — finally decided to ban him.
Mike in NC
@schrodinger’s cat: We really don’t want to dwell on what Ramping Up and Reggie Mantle do down in mom’s basement, do we?
Reggie Mantle
@Mike in NC:
No, we really don’t need more of your weird fantasies.
OzarkHillbilly
@Reggie Mantle:
Nope, sure didn’t, and yet somehow or other nobody seems to care.
gwangung
@Raven Onthill:
Really? Please provide evidence.
hovercraft
@cmorenc:
They are part of the whole Obama is worse than Bush brigade, Ralph Nader is a hero for telling truth to power, and Gore would have been just as bad as Bush.
Much like the Freedom caucus they are a bunch of loons. I imagine they must be a joy to live with, strutting around in their perfection. Be glad you can simply ignore them.
If you hate the democratic party form your own, yes it’s hard but so is anything worthwhile.
FlyingToaster
@OP:
Sanders has a couple of problems to solve.
He’s out of money, and he’s overdrawn on some contributors (must return money because they exceeded the $2700, especially those who gave him the full $5400 before primary season was over). So he needs help to retire his campaign debt.
He’s pissed off Harry Reid and Chuck Schumer, as well as the DNC in general. Chuck will control next year’s D (and caucusing with D) committee assignments in the Senate, so Bernie has to mend his fences.
Sanders’ was given nearly half of the seats on the Platform Committee; if he stops attacking Hillary after DC, and starts attacking Trump, he’ll get all the above plus a prime-time speaking slot at the convention.
The problem now is when ComicBookGuy goes on the Sunday shows and claims it will be a contested convention. No, Weaver, you fuckwit, it will not; shut up and count your fucking cards. You do not have the votes; you do not have the delegates; you do not have the moral high ground; you do not have the organization.
Clinton’s people are concentrating on Trump, as they bloody well ought. It’s time for Sanders’ folks to take their people, tell them, we didn’t get this one; in order to influence Clinton’s policies we’ve got platform people, now we need you to get out and get us some Senators and Congressmen to get our stuff done. I hope to hell they can see that.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@FlipYrWhig:
Sanders and his supporters all lost the plot early on. That his “revolution” deliberately excluded the most marginalized groups in our country and was championed overwhelmingly by a bunch of young white privileged males was the tell that Bernie was full of shit and really had nothing to offer that would make any difference at the end of the day. He’s had 30 years in Congress, ffs, and has accomplished nothing. Bernfeeling has turned into a cult, and is now just a cargo cult of whiny, privileged, reality-challenged shit talkers.
gwangung
@hovercraft: And if you want to take advantage of the Democratic Party’s structure and money, you will have to accept their rules and accommodate the desire of its long time supporters.
OzarkHillbilly
@SFAW: I thought about ETAing that at least that is the way it works at other blogs. I am wholly tech incompetent to state anything more about it tho.
Betty Cracker
@burnspbesq: Wouldn’t other actions, such as the SCOTUS reinterpreting the 1A, FEC reform, more public funding of elections, etc., also address the issue in the absence of tweaking the 1A?
hovercraft
@dmsilev:
Apparently there’s a large block of supers who are ready to endorse, whom she asked to hold off till after Tuesday. Sanders is about to find himself standing alone out in the cold. Pied piper with only a trickle of followers. We’ll see how much of the leverage he thinks he has is actually real.
But I hope you are right.
Joel
@Reggie Mantle: You didn’t answer my question.
dmsilev
@FlyingToaster: It’s telling that we’re nearly a week into June and the Sanders campaign still hasn’t released their May fundraising totals. Normally, a campaign does so right at the beginning of the month, and staying silent generally means that the number is pretty bad.
As I posted above, I think this will be over by the middle of next week. I fully expect Sanders to keep running through DC, if nothing else so that he can say that he competed for every vote or similar. But the money is running out, and once the primaries are over, there’s no obvious path forward for him that ends with the nomination.
chopper
@Betty Cracker:
if we could bus Reggie and the Busters to California I’m sure their copious tears could bust the drought in no time flat.
FlyingToaster
@dmsilev:
There’s not even a folded-space quantum tunnel path that leads Sanders to the nomination.
Betty Cracker
@shomi: Sanders didn’t adequately explain how to achieve his ideas, which is the main reason I voted for Clinton. But mainstreaming the idea of expanding the social contract rather than contracting it is a worthy objective, IMO. YMMV.
Patricia Kayden
@gene108: The irony is that it’s only Democratic “corruption” when Senator Sanders loses a primary. When he wins, everything is peaches and cream.
@oldgold: Why any Super Delegate would switch to Senator Sanders now that he has lost is beyond my comprehension. That he believes that a significant number of Super Delegates will do so is absolutely delusional. He needs to end his campaign on a dignified note.
Keith G
@gene108:
Right.
I can’t remember the last time I read something posted by any of the usual suspects who blather on promoting their inane agenda…or the responses to the inanity. Scanning over such waste seems to be an easy enough skill, after all.
Brachiator
@Patricia Kayden:
This and “She’s a liar. Lying Hillary!” in that bellowing Trump growl still whips up supporters at his rallies, there to hear his “greatest hits,” but is wearing thin everywhere else. It’s funny. Apparently at one rally, the dopes in the crowd started yelling “Lying Ted!” and Trump had to admonish them, “No, we don’t use that one anymore. Ted’s a good guy, now.” The people who come to hear him just want to get whipped up into a frenzy. They could not care less about ideas or ideology.
Here, he is even more unhinged than Richard Nixon. Trump is not just being racist here. It’s the Art of the Personal Grudge. Anyone who attacks him or opposes him or gets in the way is a “bad guy.” This has been the essence of his personal and business dealings, and he cannot help but bring his insecure little boy issues into the political arena.
Worse, he cannot rein this stuff in. His most ardent supporters see this as being tough. But increasingly, Trump is coming across like a low-rent Captain Queeg in a high school production of The Caine Mutiny.
This stuff would be entertaining if the real stakes were not so important.
SFAW
@Joel:
And he won’t. I asked the same thing a week or so ago, no response. I’ve said, numerous times, that he’s only looking to start a fight, not be “convinced” or “persuaded” — although he used to pretend that he’s oh-so-sad that the Hillbots won’t try, and are only interested in BernBashing, even though there have been plenty who tried.
He may respond to this comment, just to flip me/us the figurative bird, but so what? He’s either a Bernie-or-Bust-er or a Trump Chump, so who cares?
Reggie Mantle
@Joel:
Scroll down.
Now, are you people going to keep lying and claiming that I never answered the “why are you here” question?
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Betty Cracker:
You know what he could have done to really make me take him seriously? Push on the importance of expanding the Medicaid provision of the ACA to every citizen in this country that is eligible for it, and get his dudebro army to understand that the people being denied free/affordable health care are overwhelmingly minority and poor. He never mentioned it. The fact that he completely ignored the law, and the current president’s role in getting it passed, made me see that he’s a giant fraud with an even bigger ego, and it was just all about him and his mediocre career, tinged with Obama resentment syndrome **cough**Cornel West**cough**.
wmd
When the primaries are over the final delegate count will have Clinton with at most a 4% lead in pledged delegates. That’s winning. But it’s not some mandate, and it leaves 48% of people motivated enough to vote in a Democratic primary – that believe that they are voting to make a difference with decisions to make.
Bernie may very well continue to work to get superdelegates to change their mind. That’s a heavy lift, and likely to fail. Arguments about independents, the future of the party (young voters), high negative favorability ratings will be made. Very unlikely to change people’s minds when they declared for Hillary before there were any other candidates.
So what will the Democratic party do to try and keep the 48% of the party that did not support their candidate? Point out that it’s Hillary or Trump will shoot your dog? Or try to be convincing that many policies that Bernie promoted are going to be pushed by the party?
Reggie Mantle
@SFAW:
Apparently the answer to my last question is: ‘yes, you’re going to keep lying.”
Patricia Kayden
@SFAW: But somehow he’s back. I guess when he calls Secretary Clinton the “b” or “c” word, he’ll be banned again until he comes up with another fascinating moniker.
nominus
@Patricia Kayden: Not only that, but the Dems need to staple Trump’s racist dementia to every spineless Republican that didn’t have the stones to come out against him just on the off chance that they can keep their jobs another term. The Democrats have the golden opportunity to hang that millstone around a lot of necks and kick them all off the pier.
Reggie Mantle
@wmd:
Or they could follow the examples of the commenters here and demand unquestioning “whole-hearted” support from the people they clearly and openly despise.
SFAW
@FlyingToaster:
Balloon Juice: come for the snark, stay for the (incomprehensible) theoretical physics.
Beatrice
OK, I made up this long post in my head this morning, and this seems like a good place for it. Apologies in advance, and my feelings won’t be hurt if you just skip on by.
This morning I came across a small stash of those colored rubber wrist bands – the kind that were popular for a while to commemorate everything from charity walks to sports teams to holiday destinations. On impulse I decided to slide the black one onto my wrist. I bought it when I visited the National Civil Rights Museum in Memphis a few years ago, and it seemed fitting as a kind of memorial to Muhammad Ali.
Putting on the wrist band made me remember my visit to the museum, which I guess is part of the purpose of them. I remembered how moving it was to approach the museum on foot and to see the façade of the Lorraine Hotel, faithfully preserved exactly as it looked on the day Martin Luther King, Jr., was shot on its balcony. I was moved again as I walked along the museum exhibits which extensively detailed the history of the civil rights movement in this country, and the events leading up to Dr. King’s assassination. I was especially touched to see the children and young adults who were carefully examining the photos and reading the text, learning things they probably had never heard about before. Forgotten details such as the fact that Dr. King was in Memphis to show his support for a strike by sanitation workers. The knowledge that despite the gains in the civil rights movement, Dr. King was not only continuing but expanding his fight for human rights, including coming out against the Vietnam War even though this would lose him some powerful allies, has always made his death feel even more tragic and poignant to me. Thinking of what we lost made the wound seem fresh that day even after more than 30 years.
Across the street from the museum there was a structure. It looked like one of those long folding banquet tables, covered in plastic. On a nearby bench there was a sleeping bag, and under the table there were large plastic bags. The front of the table was covered with a sign saying “Gentrification is an abuse of civil liberties.” (Full disclosure, I did not recall what the sign said and had to look it up online.) No one was manning the table at the time, but by Googling on a phone, we learned the story of Jacqueline Smith. It’s a long story, and you can look it up yourself, but briefly, Smith was the last resident of the Lorraine Hotel, forcibly evicted in 1988 in order to create the museum. Ever since that time, she has lived in her little encampment across the street, protesting the gentrification of the neighborhood that has accompanied the museum’s creation.
Here’s the point of my long story. Smith is not wrong. Her principles are both correct and noble. On the other hand, the museum is demonstrably a public good. The people who made it a reality did so in all good faith, and for a good cause. It’s done, it’s happened, and maybe it’s time for Smith to move on.
Your cause can be just without the other side having to be evil. There don’t always have to be good guys and bad guys. Sometimes there are two good guys, but only one good guy can prevail. Sometimes it becomes necessary to recognize that, and move on – not in defeat, but in pursuit of the possible.
Eyes on the prize, folks.
schrodinger's cat
@SFAW: More like science fiction.
FlyingToaster
@shomi:
The good ideas:
• That undergraduate college or votech tuition should be free, or nearly so.
• That minimum wage should be something you can actually live on.
• That economic inequality is driving a huge number of social ills (and political ills).
• That health care should be a right.
• That “retraining” for those in failing or obsolete industries isn’t working.
Bad fucking ideas, all tied in with the above, was that “we”, the 99%, wouldn’t have to pay for any of these wonderful policies. And that anyone who questions St. Bernard is a fascist.
If there’s one thing I learned from Mike Dukakis, is that you can have any liberal policy you want once you figure out how to pay for it. Which is why we here in the People’s Republic (30 years on) have decent schools and low crime and free parks and our bridges have stopped falling down. Our city streets are still crap, and the T is falling to bits, so we got work to do, but at least we accept that we’re going to have to pony up if we want something.
Patricia Kayden
@Brachiator:
Isn’t it strange then that Trump has been known to hire mostly foreign workers (including Mexicans) for his business ventures and to engage in business transactions in Muslim countries? It’s almost like he’s putting on an act (although he may really be a racist).
http://fusion.net/story/273106/donald-trump-employs-mostly-foreign-workers-mar-a-lagos-florida/
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-about-donald-trumps-muslim-nation-properties/
burnspbesq
@Betty Cracker:
As long as Citizens United is good law, legislative and regulatory initiatives will be dead on arrival at the nearest District Court. You need Citizens United (and all its predecessors, going back to Buckley v. Valero) to no longer be good law. And I lack confidence that you’ll get a “we’re sorry, we fucked up” decision from the Supremes any time soon.
SFAW
@Reggie Mantle:
Nice try, child. Almost answers Joel’s question, but it’s yet another example of lying and misdirection on your part. So was neues?
hovercraft
@Brachiator:
It’s part of his pattern of hypocrisy his votes for NRA are necessary compromise, voting to deregulate Wall St. again compromise,his tax returns gee shucks lil Jane does our taxes and is too busy to get em done. His foibles are just a reflection of his earnestness, every decision she makes is a reflection of corruption and proof of her selling out to corporate America.
SFAW
@schrodinger’s cat:
To-may-to, to-mah-to
Brachiator
@burnspbesq: RE: I’m for getting PACs and corporations out of politics.
This I think was one of Betty’s points, not mine. I thought I had made clear in my comment that even if this were a worthy goal, it would be of secondary importance (at best) to me.
That said, Supreme Court rulings aside, this is an issue that needs to be dealt with in some way. The furor over the IRS scrutinizing exempt organizations, for example, at some level involves the Koch Brothers and others deliberately pushing the envelope to use these organizations for political purposes, expanding the venues into which political money can be poured. But I don’t see any easy answers, certainly not Bernie-esque solutions.
PatrickG
@chopper:
With these trolls, their copious tears would likely just exacerbate the salting of the delta and the acidification of the South San Francisco Bay. Not to mention subsidence in the Central Valley, as the earth groans under the weight of their idiocy. Why do you hate California? ;)
Raven Onthill
@Fair Economist: What are you talking about? Open Secrets lists her top five funding sources, comprising 47% of her funding, as Soros, Euclidean Capital (hedge fund billionaire James Simons, who is also an NSA connection), Pritzker Group (old money family), Saban Capital (investment banking, Hollywood), and Paloma Partners (investment banking, oil and gas.) Then we have 6% from Laborers Union, a general labor group, another 6% from construction trade unions (plumbers and carpenters), and 5% from the Center for Middle East Peace, which advocates a two-state solution in the Middle East.
I don’t see how there is any hope for acceptance of socialist ideas from that 47%, and the CMEP seems to me out of touch with reality.
(gwangung@150, this is also for you.)
Patricia Kayden
@nominus: I hope Dems are employing a 50-state strategy a la Dr. Dean and putting up candidates in all competitive House and Senate seats. Who knows if we can’t flip the House along with the Senate? Make Republicans pay through the nose for supporting a bigot.
FlyingToaster
@SFAW: Whenever someone starts talking BernieMath, I want to go look for my old DiffeQ, LinearAlgebra, and advanced Calculus texts. And start quoting actual fucking math at them: Eigenvalue this, motherfucker!
Bergman
Bernie’s also about to lose his one buddy in the Senate. That will sting.
Keith G
@Beatrice: What a neat piece of writing and very top-of-the-thread worthy.
Chris
@gene108:
That’s what I do the vast majority of the time, but it’s also not that mysterious that when that many puddles of word-vomit are lying around, someone will inevitably engage, and it’ll snowball from there. It’s an outgrowth of “someone on the Internet is wrong.”
At this point, I pretty much consider “don’t feed the trolls” to be the blogging equivalent of abstinence-only sex education or “just say no to drugs” campaigns from the eighties. Nice thought, but as a guiding principle for large numbers of humans, just not happening.
The Thin Black Duke
I wish people would ignore the trolls. I saw what happened to Digby’s place. The trolls got so bad there that I left because it degenerated into an insane asylum full of hateful nonsense and everybody else who wasn’t a bigoted asshole stopped commenting, because trolls don’t want to engage in a meaningful dialogue. Trolls just want to watch the world burn.
Chris
@Brachiator:
Two Minutes Hate!
dmsilev
@schrodinger’s cat: Science fiction is supposed to be at least vaguely plausible…
FlipYrWhig
@Betty Cracker:
Ask people what they think Bernie Sanders stands for and see how quickly they say anything that would fit under “expanding the social contract.” That may have been the original rationale. But he forgot to run on it. Instead he decided to run on how rich people and Wall Street have too much say in picking candidates. Monumentally, mindblowingly idiotic.
MomSense
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
This. So. Much. Fucking. This.
The mechanism is in place right now to get really good health care to the people who need it most and the revolution couldn’t be bothered to say one word about it.
dmsilev
@FlyingToaster:
I just wanted to admire this phrase.
FlipYrWhig
@Raven Onthill: Hey, maybe “socialist ideas” have trouble getting a toehold in American politics because, stay with me now, there are very few American socialists!
Raven Onthill
“You gotta dance with them what brung you.” — Molly Ivins
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Raven Onthill:
Hillary could boil live kittens and eat them three meals a day broadcast live and I’ll vote for her over Trump. Is this really so hard to understand?
Reggie Mantle
@SFAW:
No matter how many times I answer a question, you’re going to continue to lie and say I didn’t. So why should I bother?
MattF
OT, but I think this thread needs some anamorphic sidewalk art. Via Boing Boing.
The Blog Dahlia
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Christ, even acknowledging all the work Obama did to expand the social safety net more than any president since Johnson would have been a good start. You’d think a guy like Bernie would have been proud of that sort of thing.
chopper
@SFAW:
it’s the same with his jibber jabber about the BJ commentariat and the iraq war.
kinda like BiP and his accusations of homophobia. ask for proof and hey, look over there!
OzarkHillbilly
@Patricia Kayden:
Won’t work in my district. Even the democrats are bigoted.
trollhattan
@SFAW:
It’s how we simultaneously roll/do not roll.
Raven Onthill
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: “Push on the importance of expanding the Medicaid provision of the ACA to every citizen in this country that is eligible for it,”
As a Senator, he did. It was his issue before he ever became a Presidential candidate.
We have all this support for Sanders ideas, now that he’s almost defeated.
If you want these things, perhaps you could have supported the person who stood for them.
FlyingToaster
@shomi: Who’s a BernieBro? I’ve been a Clinton supporter since she announced. You should lay off the ad-hominem attacks, especially when they’re misplaced.
Now, for a proper answer:
They’re not new policies. But usually the Third Way crowd declines to mention any social good, in case it cheeses off their big funders. Fortunately, Clinton learned from her 2008 mistakes (NO MARK PENN!!!) and is talking about implementable solutions that start us on the road to nearly all of these good policies. Plus expanding Social Security instead of cutting it.
Sanders has been preaching these with an “Eat the Rich” theme, which while amusing, is not going to work. And his response to “how do you make this happen” is to rant at the questioner. Bleah.
Keith G
@shomi:
I am not a BernieBro. I have been looking forward for a Hillary presidency since 2000 and always assumed that she would eventually get there, even if I took a detour in 2007 and thought Obama should be the next president.
That out of the way…
As a Hillary supporter and contributor, please stop with the infantile name calling. It is trite and stupid and not helpful to any but the few who seem to get their jollies off using it in place of better discourse. Move on.
chopper
@PatrickG:
dammit, my secret plot laid bare. curse you, patrick!
Brachiator
@Patricia Kayden:
Trump is neither consistent or coherent. He wildly claims that Hispanics and Muslims love him even as he spouts racially insensitive nonsense.
And note that it always has to be about whose affection he has won. I try not to make a big deal about doing remote psychiatry, but Trump’s insecurities are apparent and obvious. This might not be a huge deal if he demonstrated any vestige of self-control. Instead, the larger arena of presidential politics is making his already massive ego go into overdrive.
And more comically, the Republican leadership willingly yield to Trump’s outbursts with minimal disagreement. Or, as Trump would say, they drop to their knees.
Jeffro
OT but OMG (and apologies if this has already been posted): Elizabeth Warren’s the NICE one when it comes to Trump…you should see what Rep Filemon Vela (D) had to say:
https://www.rawstory.com/2016/06/texas-congressman-tells-trump-take-your-border-wall-and-shove-it-up-your-a/
I’ll take “shrill as hell” for $1,000, Alex…
Kay
It’s only June and the only due diligence anyone has done on Trump (so far) is Trump University. Trump and his pampered family are living large off money they lifted from pathetic low and middle income people. That’s the real “brand”- they’re a pack of thieves.
It’s just starting. I don’t think they will be able to “distance themselves” as this drags on.
FlyingToaster
@dmsilev: At least we all got something out of that hellish year in LinearAlgebra.
schrodinger's cat
@dmsilev: Is BS science fiction.
trollhattan
@Reggie Mantle:
In a similar vein, how many times do you plan on telling us Hillary has not earned your vote when we all know you will not vote for her regardless of what she says or does? Kabuki at least has spiffy costumes.
PatrickG
@chopper:
You’re not the first snake-oil salesman coming to California with a “foolproof” drought solution!
John D
@wmd:
You expect Bernie to win CA 2-1? Really?
Clinton is up big right now. Should they split every remaining pledged delegate 50-50, she would beat him by a touch over 7% in the pledged delegates (2168-1883). She’s going to crush him in NJ, but lets say they split that 50-50. If they split CA 63-37 for Sanders, she beats him by 4% overall, assuming everything else splits evenly.
That is pants-on-head levels of stupid.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@The Blog Dahlia:
Bernie’s a sideline sniping fraud who didn’t have the balls to run against Obama the person, so he waited until Hillary ran and decided to become a carpetbagging sideshow using her as a proxy, because he’s just that kind of special snowflake deluded cranky asshole that every single one of his colleagues has come to know and despise.
hovercraft
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Simply explaining to his supporters what his policy proposals would cost, I saw a poll where among the young they were willing to pay $1000 more in taxes, but balked when asked to pay $ 5000 to cover more of his programs. That wouldn’t cover everything but it would be a start. Sanders dismissal of serious economists saying his plans don’t add up also showed his lack of seriousness.
Petorado
If you have’t watched the latest John Oliver show featuring the topic of the poorly regulated debt collection industry, it’s worth your time to witness him skewer them. At the end of the show, Oliver, who set up a company to buy debt, forgives almost $15million in medical debt that he purchased for about $60K.
ruemara
@Reggie Mantle: Fuck off, 10 Million.
Betty, I heartily disagreed that Sanders has raised any issues to prominence that wasn’t already out in the open. However, I fully agree that I’d like all those results you’ve stated. A little disheartening to read Mike Grunewald’s TL of two Trump supporting Latinos who voted Obama in ’12, but want to burn shit down because of the financial crisis in 2000 &, swear to god, Zika. Pretty sure those are outliers but I’m getting sick of 4 lulz as a reason from largely millennial males.
Mike J
@Brachiator:
That happens here every six months or so when some new internet scribe comes along and writes, “fuck the banksters!” He will be hailed as the lone truth teller, and even when people complain that he gets actual facts wrong they’ll be accused of tone policing.
People like it when angry people yell angry things, even when they don’t make any sense at all.
trollhattan
@Kay:
True. Trump has been in front of the media nearly two decades longer than Hillary. There’s an infinite amount of material to mine, we just need sufficient journalists to hop off the tire swing and don hardhats and headlamps.
chopper
@Raven Onthill:
you make it sound like pushing the importance of expanding medicaid was bernie’s idea. ‘his issue’? like what, clinton and obama didn’t think red states should have taken the expansion until bernie said it?
smith
@Beatrice: Thanks for this. It’s a reminder of the complexity of most of the moral choices we make, which generally can’t be boiled down to good versus evil.
Reggie Mantle
@ruemara:
And there you have it. The prescription for a Trump presidency. Once again, you make the point without realizing it.
Betty Cracker, you actually did provide a voice of reason in your original post and I give you respect for it. But, as I feared, it seems that makes you a minority here. Hating Bernie and his supporters is the order of the day.
FlyingToaster
@wmd:
According to the most recent national polling of democrats, 79% of Sanders’ primary supporters plan to vote for Clinton in the fall. .79 * .48 = 37%, plus Clinton’s 52% = 89%. So you’re telling me we need to bend over backwards to placate ~10% of the primary electorate who don’t like Clinton. Some of whom are R ratfuckers (see the Raging Hump and Rogering Mabel above) and some of whom are purity poinies.
You know, Jill Stein is right over THERE.
Chris
@The Blog Dahlia:
This. One of the more irritating things about the Sanders campaign has been the notion that Bernie Sanders is the first ray of progressive hope in decades and that the entire party’s just been a DLC cesspool all along. As if the last eight years never happened.
Tom Q
@wmd: Questioning your math, here. Using the current numbers from the Wikipedia page on the delegates, I see Hillary with about a 9% lead, not 4%. This margin will be enhanced by NJ/DC/NM, very little diminished by Dakotas/MT, with CA unlikely to push the gap much in either direction.
So, Sanders’ support will be closer to 45% of the party, that enhanced by the inherently unfair caucus totals, and also beefed up by the assortment of Greens/Paulites/GOP ratfuckers who voted in open primaries. Trying to demean Clinton’s delegate haul as barely squeaking by Sanders’ is real misrepresentation — she won a far more robust majority than Obama did in ’08, and is the clear choice of the party.
Gelfling545
@satby: At this point it amounts to flogging the spot where the dead horse was once lying.
schrodinger's cat
@Petorado: Republicans want to bring back the Victorian era, complete with no workers rights, debtors prisons, criminalizing sexuality and women’s agency, child labor, casual racism that was the basis for colonial expansion etc.
Patricia Kayden
@Kay:
So you’re comfortable enough with him to endorse his candidacy for President but do not condone his “sharp tongue” aka racist, sexist, Islamophobic, bigoted commentary? On which planet does this make sense? Just admit that you lack a backbone and have to support your Presidential candidate to get your base’s votes.
Citizen_X
@Kay:
Heh. Good luck with that, Governor, when one side in that race has already gone all-in against lead-poisoning motherfucker governors.
The Blog Dahlia
@Reggie Mantle:
Telling a whiny crybaby who had no intentions of voting in the general anyway to shut the hell up is going to send Trump to the White House? That’s some cask-strength derp right there, son.
Patricia Kayden
@trollhattan: Now that Trump has made it clear that he hates journalists and thinks many of them are sleazy, they should have no problems finally going after him and all of the junk he’s left in his wake. His declaring war against the media may not have been a smart move for him.
Mike J
@Tom Q:
Last time I ran the numbers, Sanders had about 45% of the delegates and 42% of the votes, thanks to the system he claims is rigged.
The Blog Dahlia
@FlyingToaster:
And that’s right now. Look at how the PUMA types thinned out in 2008 between early June and the election, down to a handful of ignorable nutters who claimed massive support among voters.
Betty Cracker
@Beatrice: Well said!
@FlyingToaster: Thank you!
@Kay: I think Hillary is going to trounce that walking collection of personality disorders, and we’re going to enjoy every second of it!
rk
@Ramping Up:
You are not Reggie Mantle and Donald Trump has a thick skin.
Reggie Mantle
@shomi:
Yeah, go ahead and get a head start on that bitterness, so you’ll be ready when your contempt costs you the election and you’ll already have a head start on blaming Sanders while everyone else is wandering around stunned and wondering what happened.
RSP
@Reggie Mantle:
Gosh it’s not as if people change their minds and regret past actions, such as Clinton has done. You’re a fucking idiot who’s more than likely either a troll or someone with serious problems as most normal people would have moved on to somewhere else by now.
Chris
@Patricia Kayden:
I don’t know: thirty or forty years of relentlessly slamming “the liberal media” doesn’t seem to have made the mainstream media any less obsequious and deferential to the entire right wing. One can hope they’ll make an exception for Trump.
Beatrice
@Keith G: I thanked you, but it got eaten. FYWP!
RSP
@Reggie Mantle:
Oh for fucks sake, they’re only saying that because they’re pissed and annoyed at you. Don’t pretend otherwise you intellectually dishonest hack.
D58826
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: That’s where his being an ideologue comes in. He is convinced that single payer is the only answer, so anything less is just not worth talking about. The idea of using Obamacare as as a step toward universal healthcare via single payer is just not within his worldview.
Patricia Kayden
@shomi: Well said. That’s exactly how I feel. Bernie or Bust idiots are no diferent from Trump’s bigoted supporters as far as I’m concerned. Anyone who is comfortable with a possible Trump presidency is trash to me. These are privileged White dudes and dudettes who have nothing to lose under a Trump Presidency. To hell with all of them.
The Blog Dahlia
@Reggie Mantle:
Uh, if that guy has such insane powers that his merely being mean to someone on a medium sized internet blog is going to turn the election, we all need to start being really, really nice to him. Otherwise he might scan us and blow our heads up.
Seriously, what’s with this cookoo idea that somebody being mean to you on a blog is going to change the election? I think you need to go check out the real world for a few days.
SFAW
@Reggie Mantle:
I’ll continue calling you on your bullshit until you stop spewing your bullshit. If you consider that a “lie,” too bad. Now, why don’t you toddle off to recess, little fella.
MattF
@Betty Cracker: Indeed. A one-man museum of psychopathology.
Major Major Major Major
@Reggie Mantle: Ffffffuuuuuuuuuck you!
Guten Morgen, alle Anderen! ?
rikyrah
Reggie Mantle and Ramping Up are totally paid trolls.
it’s obvious.
Reggie Mantle
@The Blog Dahlia:
As I’ve pointed out MULTIPLE TIMES, this is just a symptom of a larger problem. It’s more than “one guy”. You see it from Clintonites across the Web–a big “fuck you” to anyone who ever supported Sanders and an unshakable conviction that either (a) progressives will fall in line no matter how much you disrespect them and their candidate because without that we get Trump; or (b) It doesn’t matter because their votes don’t matter. Sometimes both, since logical consistency doesn’t seem to be many people’s strong suit.
Raven Onthill
Betty, Conster, Fair Economist: I wish you a President worthy of your loyalty.
Major Major Major Major
I miss Johannes Hollandaise Bechamel. At least he’s real and has interests outside of whining about Sanders and likes his nickname.
Reggie Mantle
@rikyrah:
On a “medium sized Internet blog” that supposedly influences no one. Good analysis.
Betty Cracker
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Sanders had a ringside seat to the ACA circus in congress — and the resulting Tea Party hissy fit. How anyone could walk away from that shit show convinced that it would be a good idea to revisit healthcare reform in a fundamental way during the next 10 years is beyond me. Still, I think there’s value in demonstrating that millions of voting Americans don’t see single payer as the Mark of the Commie Beast. But there’s a real danger, as y’all have pointed out, that the only thing that sticks from the Sanders “revolution” is petty shit like “superdelegates ate my pony.” And that would suck.
Shantanu Saha
@rikyrah: No, they’re unpaid trolls. No less irritating, but infinitely sadder.
Betty Cracker
@Raven Onthill:We’ve got one now. I believe she’ll continue his work.
burnspbesq
@Raven Onthill:
Standing for something is meaningless if you have nary a clue about how to get it done.
smith
Interesting — Buzzfeed has decided not to accept any Trump advertising: “we don’t run cigarette ads because they are hazardous to our health, and we won’t accept Trump ads for the exact same reason” This is a movement I could get behind.
trollhattan
@Reggie Mantle:
So you do intuit your shortcomings. First step to the cure, so please do proceed.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Betty Cracker:
I think Sanders has been a net negative. He sucks.
Raven Onthill
@FlipYrWhig: and yet when socialist ideas are polled without regard to party or candidates., they invariably do well, sometimes majority well.
trollhattan
@smith:
Right on, plus they also know he probably won’t pay the bill–#TrumpDiscount.
The Blog Dahlia
@Reggie Mantle:
The PUMAs were “more than one guy”. They still amounted to fuck-all, and all their talk about their precious fee-fees dictating the election ended up meaning all of jack and shit*.
You have to realize that your personal experiences on the internet do not really translate to the real world. If it did I’d be dealing with real-live trolly assholes in my office for three hours a day and my students would be turning in image macros for homework. They would still ace their exams by using This One Weird Trick. Etc. etc.
In short, your personal feelings are not representative of millions of people. You are not legion. You’re just a schmuck.
*And Jack left town.
Captain C
@dmsilev:
I suspect some of these conversations will include pointed comments about people who trash colleagues for months and then expect seniority from the same people they’ve been trashing.
nominus
@chopper: Agreed – I see tweets from Bernie daily talking about paid family leave and Medicare-for-all, acting as if HRC didn’t write a fucking book about it in the 90’s. Yeah, maybe her “Where was Bernie during the healthcare fight of the 90’s” attack seriously backfired, but the point still remains: she can lay claim to some progressive history too. Being progressive can be other things besides getting arrested in the 60’s.
Major Major Major Major
@Raven Onthill: That’s not true. Liberal ideas poll well, leftist ideas don’t. Socialism is leftist. “Medicare for all” polls well! “Nationalize the oil companies,” less so.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Raven Onthill:
As a Bernfeeler who believes that racism isn’t the most important factor in income inequality, you’re always going to be disappointed in the failure of your progressive heroes to implement the glorious socialist democratic agenda. Who’s up next as the great progressive disappointment – Jill Stein?
RSP
@Reggie Mantle:
The point people keep trying to make to you, myself included, is that things people say on the Internet don’t really matter when it comes down to the General Election. If you let random people online claiming to be supporters saying mean things about you or your candidate turn you off supporting the one standing between overt fascism and America than you’re pathatic. That’s what got people so mad at you. That you would let such silly things affect your vote. That’s something a weak and very privileged person would do.
But then I don’t really believe you’re for real anyway.
chopper
@Reggie Mantle:
you forgot the rest of the sentence, “…and i’ll be rubbing my hands with glee. then i’ll drive away in my electric car that’s powered by my own sense of self-satisfaction”
The Thin Black Duke
@Patricia Kayden: Unfortunately I don’t see these alleged journalists on TV biting the hand that sign their paychecks in spite how many insults Trumps aims at them. Ironicaally, even though he’s stupidly unaware of it, Donnie Boy was right when he called them “sleazy”.
Mike J
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
I think it’s entirely possible he;s set back what he claims are his priorities just by being so bad at putting forward a plan to implement them. Easy to write off anything he said he was for as being unworkable.
piratedan
as much as I enjoy the troll bashing, can we kick those two off the island?
Reggie Mantle
@shomi:
O RLY?
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-5565.html
Sanders up by an average of 10.4, Clinton up by an average of 1.5.
This isn’t one of the RCP’s right wing editorials. This IS math.
Reggie Mantle
@piratedan:
Sure. Become even more like the wingnut blogs that chortle about “we just burned another troooooolllll.”
hovercraft
Trump’s interview on Fox and Friends this morning did not look presidential. Countdown for a complete meltdown, shall we make bets as to how soon ?
aimai
@Reggie Mantle: So dumb it makes dumb look smart. Despite the masturbatory congratulations of a few Bernie or Busters there is no difference between the average Bernie supporter and the average Hillary supporter. No difference of kind. For the most part they are just people on different places in their time line as supporters of the democratic nominee. Plenty of Hillary supporters considered voting for Bernie, and almost all the Bernie supporters will, eventually, choose to support Hillary. No one is insulting anyone. No one is being insulted. This is all a fantasy. An egotistical, childish, fantasy of a person who prefers the status of victim to that of voter.
RSP
@Reggie Mantle:
Polls at this time of the year don’t really matter as others have said before. Also, the right wing smear machine hasn’t had a chance to work on Bernie. His polling numbers would probably be a lot lower once that happened.
chopper
@RSP:
it’s so odd to see people with this ‘assuage my hurt feelings, dammit!’ attitude.
the GOP wants to destroy everything. seriously. if there’s anything that the previous years should have made clear it’s that this is total war. at least that’s how those guys are treating it.
this is a major situation here and it’s going to determine the future of the country. whiny-ass titty babies are not an asset for our side. we need to mercilessly crush the GOP, not sit and pout about it.
this is why i’m behind clinton. she’s a fighter. bernie is all talk. in a political war talk is cheap.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@D58826:
i think the fact that it’s called “Obamacare” is why Sanders won’t mention it – I don’t believe he’s ideological, I think he’s a narcissist. He has a belief system from the 60s that he’s never really had to rethink from his privileged perch in lily white independent Vermont. He hasn’t thought through anything, as he’ll tell you – but he’s had time to watch Obama’s success and as an old white guy with a giant ego, he wanted to drive a stake through it.
Unsympathetic
Bernie or Buster fans such as John Miller here are really nothing but glibertarians and Ayn Rand Paul acolytes.
They don’t actually represent any leftwing ideas, and accordingly deserve zero consideration.
schrodinger's cat
RM = 81 responses out of 281
RU = 25 responses out of 281
ROH=16 responses out of 281
=122/281
43% responses by or to 3 Bernie Sanders apologists
We is on your blog monopolizing your comment section
Paul in KY
@MomSense: I don’t think I have.
schrodinger's cat
RM = 81 responses out of 281
RU = 25 responses out of 281
ROH=16 responses out of 281
=122/281
43% responses by or to 3 Bernie Sanders apologists at 281 comments
We is on your blog monopolizing your comment section
Gravenstone
@Reggie Mantle: Don’t they have a nice beach there in Riverdale? Why don’t you go take a long walk on it, grab a handful of sand, and pound it up your ass, you fucking Republican troll.
schrodinger's cat
@MomSense: srv has a distinctive style, doesn’t always troll, is funny on occasion and has been around BJ comment section for a long time, probably since its inception.
Paul in KY
@Patricia Kayden: He’s been in the Senate for 20 years & his wife was a high mucky muck in education. He should be stinking rich & he shouldn’t be embarrassed by that.
Major Major Major Major
@schrodinger’s cat: I’m actually about to switch from the pie filter to Troll-B-Gone just to nuke the responses, too. (Obviously I can’t help myself.)
RSP
@chopper:
I’ve only paid attention since 2010 or so, but has this ever happened before with people like you describe. I can’t say I’ve seen anything like it. Personally I think Reggie’s screwing with us.
The Thin Black Duke
@schrodinger’s cat: Mission Accomplished.
Major Major Major Major
@RSP: Reggie’s a troll, but I don’t think the same person as BRINKS TRUCKS. Raven Onthill links to a real blog.
dmsilev
@shomi: Of course, that’s a sanitized version of the original acronym. PUMA started out as Party Unity My Ass, until someone figured out that that might not be optimal if they had any hope of getting media coverage.
Origuy
@smith: Wonkette will be happy to take his money, though. As long as it’s cash on the barrelhead.
TopClimber
@Patricia Kayden: Would Love to see Warren replace the toxic DWS as convention chair. Would be a nice gesture toward the reachable Bernistas and give DWS a face-saving reason for going the f–k away. Replacing Debbie D as spokesman for the Democratic Party is a move that both camps would back, with gusto!
Raven Onthill
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: So his ideas are wonderful, and you oppose him. Right, that makes sense.
@burnspbesq: Sanders was an effective Representative and then an effective Senator.
@D58826: In the Senate, Sanders fought to improve the ACA.
@Betty Cracker: “How anyone could walk away from that shit show convinced that it would be a good idea to revisit healthcare reform in a fundamental way during the next 10 years is beyond me.” We are now seeing massive consolidation in the health insurance industry. I suspect that before all is said and done we are going to very much wish we had revisited the issue.
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: “Hillary could boil live kittens and eat them three meals a day broadcast live and I’ll vote for her over Trump. Is this really so hard to understand?” She regards that war criminal Henry Kissinger, with his body count of at least half a million and his suborning of Nixon’s treason, as a friend and mentor. And yet, truly, Trump would probably be worse; he might start a war just by shooting off his mouth.
@FlyingToaster: “79% of Sanders’ primary supporters plan to vote for Clinton in the fall.” That’s if the Democratic leadership doesn’t alienate them, not a certain thing.
rk
@schrodinger’s cat:
I saw this, had a laugh and deleted my response to RM. The two of them are pretty ridiculous. It’s the same arguments over and over again.
MattF
Steve Benen has posted a summary of an MSNBC article on dysfunction in the Trump camp. Article is worth reading too.
The whole thing reminds me of various studies of cult psychology– particularly the Fearless Leader who sets cult members against each other and changes direction every day.
A Ghost To Most
@Shantanu Saha:
No evidence that Mickey Jackhole is any thing other than this years’ model of the PUMA Purity Pony. Ralphing Up and Boris in Putinland have NEVER denied being paid trolls, and in fact, their behavior strongly suggest they are being paid.
Ramping Up
Rush’s substitute host already flogging the new book CRISIS OF CHARACTER, was also on Page Six of the New York Post! Reading excerpts already! Says that Hillary was “prone to temper tantrums” and threw a lamp and Bill Clinton, then slapped him!
Do you want her finger on the button? If we raise the issue of the instability of Trump, what about Hillary? Is she going to pop off every time Clinton has another affair and invade Iran?
aimai
@TopClimber: Its really not appropriate for the party to treat people like they are disposable and can be publicly humiliated at the behest of the fucking loser candidate. Bernie and his crew had no right to turn DWS into a punching bag–I don’t care how awful she is she is just an elected party official trying to do a thankless task. Its graceless, classless, and assholic. And neither Obama nor Clinton are like that. So I doubt that she will be publicly removed from her position.
Joel
@Beatrice: John Stuart Mill in a nutshell.
Ramping Up
From Drudge to Rush to Fox News…next stop? Morning Joe and POLITICO!
Cat48
@FlyingToaster:
His FEC Reports had hundreds of pages of people he had to return money to bc they were over $2700. Hopefully he has paid some of It back. If Hillary’s FEC Reports had looked like that, the press would have talked about it daily.
Major Major Major Major
@aimai: She’s retiring anyway. She’s kind of odious as a congresscritter too. But pretty much everybody hates the DNC chair by the time they’re done anyway.
@Cat48: I posted about how Saint Bernard had that issue on the book of faces. The bernfeelers swarmed it with “ha! that’s nothing compared to hillary’s donor issues!” and I was like “which ones?” and they listed a bunch of debunked right-wing talking points and links to usuncut. Sad!
smith
@MattF: That’s a good summary, and you can find a good analysis by Martin Longman (Booman) at Wash Monthly. Shorter version: Trump is toast.
Ramping Up
CRISIS OF CHARACTER front page news on Drudge again! It’s blowing up!
Just wait until the end of the week, it will sweep all the stuff about the judge right off the front page!
Tripod
@Ramping Up:
What’s Drudge?
Archon
@Ramping Up:
Wait, it’s one Drudge’s front page? This must be a big deal since they have a reputation for fair and accurate portrayals of Democrats…
Paul in KY
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: She could show video of her murdering Vince Foster. and narrate it while munching on a live kitten & I would still vote for her over Trump.
Gravenstone
@schrodinger’s cat: Yeah, the stench of sock puppetry is on the wind.
Ramping Up
@Archon:
As Halperin said “It’s Drudge’s world, and we’re just living in it”. Nobody drives news like Drudge with the possible exception of Trump’s Twitter account.
Mnemosyne
@Reggie Mantle:
We don’t want all of Bernie’s supporters to go away. Just you.
Also, I am now dying to have Hillary walk out onstage at the convention to this song. Hail to the Queen, indeed.
chopper
@Ramping Up:
jesus chicken fucking christ, enough with the baghdad bob impression.
Major Major Major Major
@Paul in KY: What if she skull-fucked the kitten?
Tripod
Yikes. Alan Grayson drunk posted a GBCW over at the GOS.
Probably not the best way to make a primary case, but entertaining as hell.
Paul in KY
@Petorado: I sure do like John Oliver. He’s a class guy.
PatrickG
@schrodinger’s cat:
Cue several people saying they think a scroll bar is sufficient to solve all problems… :)
chopper
@Major Major Major Major:
that reminds me, i need to make lunch.
Mnemosyne
@Ramping Up:
Drudge still has a web page? And people actually read it?
Geez, I thought that guy was dead. His career sure is.
hovercraft
@MattF:
It’s supposed to be a Trump version of ‘Team of Rivals’. But the leader is supposed to keep the rivals from spinning out of control. Failure of leadership.
Raven Onthill
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: “As a Bernfeeler who believes that racism isn’t the most important factor in income inequality,”
I think you’ve got me confused with someone else.
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
Raven Onthehill is an annoying crank, but a real poster. He is to Obamacare what BiP is to Ukraine.
ETA: Well, that was an unexpectedly awkward juxtaposition.
Jack the Second
I think this election is going to be cathartic for the Democratic Party. Hillary as nominee — and more so as President — is going to drive the misogynists out of the party the way passing civil rights legislation forced most of the remaining “Southern Democrats” to the Republican Party.
It will be loud, it will be noisy, and maybe it will hurt a bit (it always hurts to lose votes, and votes from terrible people count the same as saints’), but we’ll be better for it.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Raven Onthill:
Could be misremembering which corvid-named Bernfeeler was engaged in this topic, but it’s the fundamental and fatal flaw in the Bernfeelers’ argument for Bernie.
Chyron HR
@Ramping Up:
The next time you need to change your name and pretend to be a different person, you should go with “Jam Tomorrow”.
El Caganer
@smith: It’s amusing that the Libertarian Party has a better-qualified candidate than the Republicans do. I can’t see myself ever voting for the Libertarians, but their Pres/VP candidates have actual governing experience (and how did Weld join that crew? I’m not from MA, but I seem to recall he was one of the last moderate Republicans).
Major Major Major Major
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Also Bernie rather clearly thinks so. It came up during one of the debates, didn’t it? “The oligarchs use a ‘divide and conquer’ strategy by inflaming stuff like racism in order to enforce economic inequality” and/or “racism stems from economic inequality” is classic Marxism.
Miss Bianca
@TopClimber: There’s a reason that DWS has the job. No one wants it. It’s kind of a booby prize, a thankless task. If Elizabeth Warren actually wanted to take it on, I’d say, bully for her! But until someone with obvious star power, mad fundraising skillz, and killer organization actually steps up and volunteers for it, I guess it behooves us to make the best of what we got and quitourbitchin’, as Ann Landers might have put it.
Betty Cracker
@Tripod: Ooooo! Link?
Poopyman
@Ramping Up:
Was that before or after he lost all that weight?
Major Major Major Major
Scott Adams is a fucking idiot, still.
Mike in NC
But unemployed losers hanging out in mom’s basement have made such a compelling case for the faux billionaire with the short, sticky fingers.
Major Major Major Major
@Betty Cracker: here.
Ramping Up
@Mike in NC:
Again with the weird fantasies about other posters personal lives.
Miss Bianca
@Mnemosyne: “I Am the Queen!”
The only way it could be better is if Queen Latifah walked onstage *with* HRC.
Barbara
@FlipYrWhig: Like a lot of people who have a prize put in front of their eyes, he lost his way and became consumed with the process rather than the ends.
Shantanu Saha
@schrodinger’s cat: Did you count the comments directly responding to the trolls, the comments in the meta-troll discussion, etc? I believe after subtracting those comments, the entire thread would be about a dozen responses.
See, trolls make the thread!
Cat48
@Beatrice:
Good story, I’ll try to keep it in mind.
b1narys3rf
It’s absolutely totes adorbs how every 4 years a peanut gallery comes on here and tries to tell us Obambots, Shillarians and establishment types that we need to be wetting the bed and pleading for help because we’re going to get an October surprise in July. And August. And September. And that the Republicans are secretly evil geniuses who can never possibly lose anything or do anything dumb. And that several million militant progressive/white/Christian voters are going to totally materialize overnight and disrupt our stupid plans in the states where people actually live, or something.
Major Major Major Major
Ahh. Switched from Pie Filter to Troll-B-Gone and the thread is a much better read now that responses are gone too.
Betty Cracker
@Major Major Major Major: Gyad, what a self-righteous windbag. I wasn’t enthusiastic about supporting his blue dog opponent in the upcoming primary, but that whiny-ass essay helps. Thanks!
Mnemosyne
@Poopyman:
If my husband very publicly cheated on me and knowingly let me go out and defend him at a press conference without telling me that the charges were true, he’d be lucky if all I did was throw a lamp at him.
Psych1
Many of those who will vote for Trump know very well that he is crazy and dangerous. But they don’t care because they hate Hillary more. Trump still could win. Hillary will need all the help she can get. The Bernie hate here by some of her very stupid supporters does not help her. If many others feel the same way she can and likely will lose.
schrodinger's cat
@Shantanu Saha: Comments directly responding to the trolls or where the trolls were named.
TopClimber
@Miss Bianca: Talking about convention chair, not party chair, though I can see how the confusion might arise. I first thought keynote speaker, but usually you want a rising star (EW won’t ever run for prez, in my view), like Tom Perez, who will benefit from national exposure.
C.S.
@Reggie Mantle:
Oh! Oh! He means me! He’s talking about me again! Oh frabjous day! Although he’s not quite right, of course, because trolls gotta troll. Misses a conditional clause. See, my point is and always will be that most Sanders supporters will end up happily supporting Clinton because, you know, she’s a really good progressive candidate who’s been pushed even further to the left during the course of the primaries, is tough as nails, will nominate good SCOTUS justices, and will be at minimum a very good President. But there are some dead-enders, of course, because there always are. And while not an ‘adherent’ (and WTF would that even mean?) I do heartily espouse the “you get nothing” part of the equation for these folks. Because they should not get anything. They (or “you” in Reggie’s case) are trying to hold the Democratic Party hostage based on their fleeting infatuation with a septuagenarian 40s-era progressive who hasn’t seen fit to lift one wagging finger to help the party advance progressive goals, promote progressive politicians, or any damn thing whatsoever. If they (you) want their policy preferences to become part of the fabric of the party, they can do what African-Americans, feminists, gay folks, etc., etc., did when their concerns were not adequately addressed — they can do the hard work of building the party, building coalitions, registering voters, raising funds, and supporting candidates throughout the political system, from school boards to state representatives and on and up. Until then, why should the party structure consider them any more than a passing irritation?
Since I personally consider Sanders a throwback, I’m not especially troubled by losing folks whose view of progressive politics boils down to “it’s all Wall Street! Everything else is just an outgrowth of Wall Street!” But hey — I’m a magnanimous sort, so if you’re able to build that within the party structure, I could come around. But you don’t get a corner office the day you walk through the door. And you certainly shouldn’t get points for simply voting for Clinton. You should vote for Clinton, but that’s a baseline, a threshold. If you can’t bring yourself to not just vote for her but support her vociferously and work for her, then why should you get a pat on the head? I don’t want the situation where “I held my nose and voted for you” starts to take on “. . . and you won and therefore you owe it all to us and must enact our policy preferences or by-gum we won’t vote for you next time!” I don’t support the idea of allowing the Democratic Party to become hostage to people who don’t give a glorious goddam about the Democratic Party.
So yes . . . “you get nothing!” Not right now anyway. Work hard and you will. Prove yourself and you will. It takes time, and it would be great if you put in that time, but you haven’t yet, and there’s certainly no reason to promote your causes ahead of those equally progressive folks who have put in the time and effort. That’s the conditional part. If you pull the lever without reservation, without holding your nose, and stop being a lazy ass who wants all his cake now, work within the party, and vote and vote and vote again just like all the other progressives have for decades , then I have no doubt you will see olive branches aplenty offered to you. But if you do not, if you value the purity of your Bernie-bro cred higher than actual progressive accomplishments, then yes, you can go the fuck away, because that’s what you were going to do anyway.
Miss Bianca
@TopClimber: oops! My bad! Obviously I have *not* had enough coffee!
A Ghost To Most
@Psych1:
shorter: Nice candidate you got there – be a shame if something were to happen to her
Ella in New Mexico
@MattF:
Super interesting read. But I see it less through the lens of a cult dynamics and more a case in which a bunch of people who set aside their ethics and character to work as campaign staffers have come to work for a man who has a pathological, egomaniacal sense of his importance. He won’t let anyone help him because he’s smarter than everyone else, obviously.
And the bootlicking servants in his mansion are too scared to risk their paychecks by standing up for something they believe in.
Chris
@C.S.:
I haven’t even read past the first line yet, but +1,000 for Jabberwock reference.
Shell
Hmm, was t his written by the same asshole who claimed the Clintons decorated the WH christmas tree with crack pipes and condoms?
Oh yeah, accurate and trustworthy reporting. Ha-ha-ha-ha
TopClimber
@aimai: I doubt she will be publicly removed from the DNC, but understand I was talking about convention chair, not party chair. For some reason I thought DWS had that job, but maybe I got that wrong. Wasn’t it Pelosi last time? Anyway, it is always a good idea for the convention chair to be neutral or at least credibly fair to all sides.
Major Major Major Major
@TopClimber: I think it’s Ed Rendell.
Patricia Kayden
@Major Major Major Major: I read Dilbert every day. It’s a shame that its author is such a douche.
Brachiator
@hovercraft:
Thanks for the head’s up on this.
I love how Trump gets wound up in his personal business and issues when his thin skin is punctured. He provides his own distraction. Hillary slams him on his foreign policy incompetence, he wants to talk about the thousands who loved his shitty phony “university
The Democrats need to keep this up. Maybe talk about his crappy, uneatable steaks again.
And this is Whiny Ass Titty Baby Trump’s theme song: Why Am I Treated So Bad?
Patricia Kayden
@TopClimber: That’s a great suggestion since it wouldn’t remove Senator Warren from the Senate. DWS has been lackluster at best and needs to step down and so something else with her time. She appears to be a nice person but wasn’t up for the position.
schrodinger's cat
@Major Major Major Major: That is demented and passive aggressive at the same time. I never found Dilbert all that funny or amusing. Now I know why.
dogwood
@Miss Bianca:
DWS is the current boogeyman that the left has created. They want to see her gone because it makes them feel powerful. It doesn’t change anything, but that’s not the goal anyway. Hell they’re supporting her primary opponent who is running to the right of DWS. None of this shit is about policy.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@Major Major Major Major: Stunning job nailing himself to the cross and all that, but seriously…how does he get the fourth nail in? I’ve always wondered.
Shell
Does ‘superior persuasion skills’ mean repeating “Im building a wall” robotically ten times i one interview?
Miss Bianca
@Betty Cracker: Seriously? This guy? Can someone take away the cough syrup before he hurts himself?
Love the top comment, tho’:
CONGRATULATIONS!
@John D: Dude, OMG thank you, thank you, thank you. That plug-in is the best.
grandpa john
@Betty Cracker: When I start feeling down and need a little cheering I go and read things like this
TopClimber
@Major Major Major Major: I know he is chair of the host committee but even though I boast B+ googling skills for some reason I don’t find the actual convention chair.
terry chay
@Brachiator:
Ironically, Donald Trump demonstrated this better.
John D
@CONGRATULATIONS!: Yeah, it’s like Cleek’s pie filter with the nuclear option added on. It makes the worst of the noise (and all the noisy responses) just vanish. AND it keeps me from “Someone Is Wrong On The Internet” responding as an added benefit.
Paul in KY
@Major Major Major Major: She could be skull fucking Bernie & the kitten, while munching on another one, & saying in between bites ‘buwahahahahahaha, all the stories are true!!!’ and I would still vote for her over Trump.
Paul in KY
@Major Major Major Major: When he starts talking about ‘the dialectic’, you’ll know he’s really lost it, comrade.
Major Major Major Major
@Paul in KY: What if she did it while drinking the blood of Palestinian, Libyan, and Honduran children?
Captain C
@John D:
If we assume that she’s up by 12, as reported, with early votes, and we assume that early votes are about half the total votes that will be cast in CA, Bernie will have to win the election day votes by something like 82-18 to come in at 63-37 overall. And he still would have a 4% overall deficit nationally, as you pointed out.
Seconded.
Paul in KY
@Brachiator: That’s the way to get him.. Keep placing him on the defensive (God knows it’s not hard to do). He’ll just keep digging himself deeper and deeper and deeper.
Paul in KY
@Major Major Major Major: Wow, Honduran?! Poor little Honduran kids?! Man, I’d have to re-evaluate then (if she’s also doing all the other stuff while drinking the blood, etc. etc.)
You’ve really given me something to think about…Hondurans…damn!
grandpa john
@b1narys3rf: That’s when you switch to reading things like this:
terry chay
@Betty Cracker: Betty, the lesson here is that with the Democratic Party, you can’t have a wonderful idea (income equality) without a policy that will implement it. They’re simply not like and will never be the left’s version of the evangelical conservatives because the election strategy of the Democrats is not based on 50%+1 (getting a bunch of disparate cohorts to vote on single issues important to them).
The strength of 50%+1 is you don’t have to “move to the center,” but its weakness is that you have to cater to each issue (pro-gun, anti-abortion, nativism, racism, sexism, etc.) that composes your party’s rabid voters, evangelical conservatives are one such group which is why you see even Donald Trump catering to them: abortion, “Two Corinthians,” the bible is the “best book,” etc.
Even something like income equality is a big issue in the Democratic Party tent, but to get the rest of the big tent, there needs to be a practical mechanism behind that issue that works to be accepted by the rest: For example, “Fight for 15” modified by a path toward 15 that accounts for different COLA for different states and regions).
Are we going to believe that Obama and Hillary were really against “gay marriage” (and Sanders in a state that legalized gay civil unions still wouldn’t speak in pro) until they had a sudden change of heart? Or is more likely that once it was made clear how gay marriage could be implemented (tying it to civil rights and comparing half-measures as segregationists) AND accepted by a majority of the country (massive and consistent change in polling) it was safe to change ones official views?
C.S.
@terry chay:
Actually, if you want to draw a lesson along these lines, wouldn’t you reach the opposite conclusion about Bernie? He raised gobs of money, burned through it all (and a bunch of bridges to boot) and still couldn’t bring it home. Unless, of course, Bernie = the anonymous stiff with all the money. In any event, it seems we pretend to learn this lesson every four years for the first time. I certainly remember learning it in 2008, with the exception being that dude won. I remember it in ’92 as well, and, yeah, that dude also won. So I’m not sure that Bernie really demonstrated anything new in this regard.
And yes, Donald Trump demonstrated this much better.
SFAW
@Paul in KY:
He’d just be having a non-acid-induced flashback to his days as an electrical engineer, designing capacitors and working on high-voltage design. It ain’t commie stuff, you hater. Next you’ll be trying to tell us that he’s such a commie, he reads Marx in the original Russki.
dogwood
@terry chay:
Great points. I would add that the Democrats will always be in a bit of a bind because they advocate policies that benefit people who either don’t vote or will never vote for a Democrat. A couple hundred thousand In La. will now get health insurance, but it’s still unlikely that the democratic governor will be reelected or that any Democrat could win that state’s electoral votes. Republicans don’t do the same. They say all the right things and appoint judges who please the religious, the gun nuts, and the racist nativists. They legislate to please their paymasters. It doesn’t work that way for Democrats.
Paul in KY
@SFAW: I misspelled that: ‘dialectic’. Marxists such as Lenin & Trotsky were always going on about that. ‘Dialectical Materialism’ was one of their big theories.
laura
I was happy to vote for Bernie, but accept the Hillary will be the announced Victor while polls are still open even though that’s a crap move.
terry chay
@Major Major Major Major: Wouldn’t it be totally cool if the two trolls WERE actually John Hollandais Bechamel trolling us so that we would miss him, because I miss the guy also. :-)
Betty Cracker
@C.S.: The (Bill) Clinton and Obama campaigns both had mega-donors, and PBO and HRC both used PACs, IIRC. Sanders has legit raised a shit-ton of cash in small donation from individuals, demonstrating that it’s possible to make a credible primary run that way. Now, had Sanders prevailed in the primary, it’s possible he wouldn’t have been able to compete in the general without PACs. But it’s still pretty remarkable that he was able to raise so much from individuals.
terry chay
@Raven Onthill: When socialist policies are polled with their costs they don’t do nearly so well, some can’t even get majorities among the majority of supporters.
This is the previous commenter’s point which you ignored.
(P.S. I’m addressing you because unlike two others here, you don’t seem to be a troll, but an earnest supporter. It would help your sanity if you stop seeing other BJ commenters here as not against you or against the spirit of what Sanders represents (see the original post), but actually for them (most of the front pagers donated to the Sanders campaign up until they stopped) with a disagreement with you on how they can be accomplished. It’s fun to disagree and have a lively discussion on that; it’s not fun to dig trenches.)
burnspbesq
@Reggie Mantle:
Actually, it’s statistics. With all its flaws. Which you have apparently never studied.
National polls are meaningless. We don’t have a national election for President. We have a collection of state elections. Which you seem incapable of understanding.
It’s also five months out from the election. At this time in 1988, Dukakis was the prohibitive favorite. That alone would keep you from putting any stock in polls now, but you cling to them like your precious binky.
El Caganer
@Paul in KY: Perhaps, at his age, he meant to say ‘diuretic.’
burnspbesq
@Raven Onthill:
Not if you define effectiveness in terms of actual, measurable accomplishments.
Tom
@Mike in NC: We’re seeing those in Colorado as well.
“Government doesn’t work – vote for me and I’ll prove it!”
SFAW
@Paul in KY:
Check your original comment, and check my (purported) cut-and-paste.
You were fine, I was trying to make a nerd joke.
Sorry.
SFAW
@burnspbesq:
Picky, picky …
terry chay
@C.S.: True to all of the above. :-)
C.S.
@Betty Cracker:
Yes, but they also ran against well-funded establishment candidates and won. Pretty sure PBO at least doubled Clinton’s 2008 fundraising in the absolute number of small-donor contributions.
terry chay
@dogwood: …or you can look at it glass-half-full: what’s the point in winning an election if you can’t have the policies you elected them for?
The ACA passed on a straight party-line vote and has helped millions of people, and for that the Democratic Party was rewarded with a wipe-out in congress. But through it all, given what its done to my friends and others who were literally saved by it, warts and all, being the law of the land, I still say, “WORTH!”
PatrickG
@Paul in KY: I get a real kick out of dielectrical materialism, myself. Indeed, it’s shocking!
Raven Onthill
@burnspbesq:
Miss Bianca
@Tom:
Ain’t it the truth…sigh.
Raven Onthill
Briefly, my position on the ACA, since this seems to be in question, formed while it was still being assembled, is that it is rather like a tent and a place to pitch it to a homeless family. Not anything like all the family wants or needs, but much better than being on the streets. It has in fact come out better than my pessimistic assessment of 2009; you can read my opinion here: 1 2. But I draw your attention to this remark in passing from the second article: “Young people and older women are the coalition that elected Obama. I think there would be little such a coalition could not do.”
That’s what I would like to see the Democratic Party build.
Raven Onthill
@terry chay: “When socialist policies are polled with their costs they don’t do nearly so well, some can’t even get majorities among the majority of supporters.”
It’s a good point, and it’s not one I have an answer for. Persuading the public to pay for any program is very difficult; usually it is only possible when people see direct consequences in their families’s lives (Social Security, Medicare) or when people are just scared (the military, anti-terrorist policies.)
The costs of socialist policies are often less than estimated, and the costs of neo-liberal policies often more. Both the ACA and welfare reform are examples. I watched as everything that might reliably reduce the exorbitant cost of US health care was taken out of the ACA because it also reduced the profits of insurance companies. Welfare reform…welfare reform kills.
Beyond that are programs that are not conventionally socialist, like promoting income equity and stabilizing the business cycle through Keynesian policies. There is no doubt that both of these improve the lives of the vast majority of the public. They probably would have a positive effect on overall wealth, but they would also somewhat reduce the wealth of the very rich. It is only because, as Steinbeck put it, we imagine ourselves as “temporarily embarrassed capitalists” that such programs are unpopular, but that makes them hard sells indeed.
J R in WV
@Major Major Major Major:
OK, I know a little about this and that, computers-wise. But I don’t see anywhere to learn if Troll-be-gone will work on my environment ( Firefox 46.0.1 running on Ubuntu 14.04 ) , nor do I see instructions for implementing Troll-be-gone.
Same for Pie-filter… no info, just vague mentions of, oh, you should all just use this majik thingy.
Anyone want to get explicit about these interesting and useful sounding software gadgets?
Thanks!
Sam Dobermann
@satby: We are planning to donate in Bernie units: $27 at a time. Best would be to do it automatically monthly. Then Al would have an assured stream of money that he could more or less rely on. Of course if he blows up or becomes obnoxious then the $$ could be cancelled.
I’ve “known” Al a long time on line so I doubt he will fuck up. And the battle between Al and Bernie will be a prodigious spectacle — is if Bernie doesn’t tuck his tail between his legs and quit before election time. Trump has said if he lost we would not see him any more; he would just play golf on one of his courses. Not that anyone can rely on our Trumpet to play taps.
Paul in KY
@El Caganer: Probably!
Paul in KY
@PatrickG: They absolutely were wedded to their pet theories, real life/observations be damned. It’s a big part of what killed the Communist experiment (IMO).
Sam Dobermann
@Raven Onthill: This is such bullshit by Reich. You can tell because he doesn’t, can’t name a single one of the accomplishments of which he sings.