To every little girl who dreams big: Yes, you can be anything you want—even president. Tonight is for you. -H pic.twitter.com/jq7fKlfwGV
— Hillary Clinton (@HillaryClinton) June 8, 2016
Now *that* is how you give a victory speech, Mr. Trump.
The daughter of the first black president is gonna cast her first vote for a woman. Holy shit.
— A.C. in D.C. (@ArykanotErika) June 8, 2016
Confession: Thought woman thing wouldn't mean much to me, but yes, feel something I can't quite articulate seeing 1st woman nominee #History
— Ana Navarro (@ananavarro) June 8, 2016
Apart from rejoicing — and buckling down to the general — what’s on the agenda for the day?
I have been waiting to tweet this for months. pic.twitter.com/O51cDdLXji
— Laurie Voss (@seldo) June 8, 2016
Eight years ago vs. tonight: pic.twitter.com/gIEXH9BhQh
— Scott Bixby (@scottbix) June 8, 2016
Tonight will go down in history. A woman is a nominee and it's the last time we will have to listen Donald Trump deliver a victory speech
— Dan Pfeiffer (@danpfeiffer) June 8, 2016
Baud
That first photo is great.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
As Bernie attempts his feeble fucking “negotiation” (as if it is 1968), here’s my take on how things go from the Hillary-Obama camp side of things
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cMTAUr3Nm6I
Fuck him. Fuck his goals. Fuck his bros.
Patricia Kayden
Congrats to Secretary Clinton for making history. Yes we can and yes we will. We must.
Betty Cracker
2nd tweet above:
I hadn’t thought of that! The elder Obama daughter is just a few weeks older than my kid, who will also be voting for Hillz.
Randy P
That’s what a deep bench actually looks like.
Every time I hear a Republican use the “deep bench” term to describe the mind-numbingly stupid set of incompetent clowns we saw, I wonder briefly what’s inside their brains and how much effort it takes to maintain belief in that alternate universe.
I like being the party of reality.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
In case the link didn’t take:
What Obama and Hillary need to explain to the bitter old crank as he makes his feeble demands.
Betty Cracker
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: I envision it more like this.
Randy P
@Betty Cracker: Kinda nice to be alive and see this history being made, isn’t it? To say nothing of being on the right side of history.
Tagging onto my comment at #5, sometimes I wonder how you live with yourself if you’re on the wrong side of history on EVERY SINGLE SOCIAL ISSUE AND EVERY SINGLE CANDIDATE. But of course they don’t realize that.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
► Katy Perry is right (photo)
► Sweet photo of a mom and her 2 daughters and her dog watching Hillz’ speech (photo)
► 6 year old girl reacts to victory (photo)
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
(photo)
bystander
NBC just called California for Hillary. Sanders needs to go back to Vermont and commune with some cows.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
Even Tricky Dick is tired of freddie
Carolinus
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/07/politics/primary-results-highlights/index.html
Schlemazel Khan
@Randy P:
Someone here, and I apologize sincerely for not remembering who, corrected that “deep bench” thing to the much more accurate “deep trench”. I hope the person steps up and takes credit because I can’t think of a better description for what the GOP has build . . . I was going to say “up to” but really “down to” is more accurate. They dug this hole and are mining the sludge so very far beneath the bottom of the barrel.
Loviatar
I’ve always wondered in situations like this how a man can look at his wife, daughters, mother, sisters, aunts, female cousins and friends and say, nahh you’re not good enough.
or
How a woman can look at herself, her daughters, mother, sisters, aunts, female cousins and friends and say, nahh we’re not good enough.
smh, never understood it.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
With 92% of the vote counted in California, Hillary is only leading by 13% and 420,000 votes, which means it’s a “virtual tie” in California.
Cat48
BBC reports Hillary has won California! Good job, Hillary!
satby
@Betty Cracker: How great is that? That’s something that all of us can be proud of.
Baud
@Loviatar: Think of it in the opposite way. “I really am special and important in the scheme of things.” Then it becomes easier.
Terry chay
@Cat48: was it ever in doubt? All those reports of “polls tightening?” It was so obvious that pollsters were changing voter models to fit CW when everything was pointing to the opposite (I had an especially good chortle when Nate Silver said that Hispanics might flip for Sanders because one majority-Hispanic district in Chicago went for Bernie.)
rikyrah
Good Morning ?, Everyone ?
Baud
NYT says Bernie requested the meeting with Obama.
satby
@rikyrah: And good morning to you! And everyone else today.
Just got back from the airport, one little bird (Qunoot) has flown the nest for home via Washington DC. I hope the YES students get to see a bit of American history IRT before they fly home Friday. They’ve supposed to visit the WH and I hope they just happen to get a surprise visit on their tour from FLOTUS or POTUS.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
Chuck Todd said last night if Trump continues to fuck up the next 2 weeks, McConnell and Ryan will move to deny him the nomination.
Trump may be able to contain himself for 2 weeks, but he will fuck up again, and again, and again. He’s done so all year. Every time he fucks up, sympathizers say, “well, at least he’s learned his lesson, he won’t touch a hot stove again”. But then he does it over and over, again. He can’t help himself. It’s only going to be harder now with President Obama entering the ring and hammering him.
Applejinx
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: YO! The curb stomp thread is two threads down, buddy. I came here to be reminded of the joy of Clinton supporters over a historic moment.
Seriously. Show me who you really are. If that is all you are, you deserve to lose.
And it’s not, it’s so not. So GTFO of the joy thread. Curb stomping is so two threads ago.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
But Bernie pulled nearly even numbers on same day votes – it means he has the momentum so the supers should flip!
Baud
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: I don’t know what they can possibly do. Who has authority to void the primary results?
kd bart
Bernie has become that old guy who holds up an airline flight because he demands an aisle seat and ain’t sitting down until he gets one.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@Applejinx:
Yeah, we are done with your boy. He’s gonna face a real democrat next time around.
Feel THAT, Bern.
OzarkHillbilly
So Pfieffer thinks Trump allows reality to stand in his way? The man just hasn’t been paying attention.
amk
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class:
One of the biggest moment for women and all have to assuage to the bernt feelings of an crotchety old white man, who lost fair & square? Fuck him and his ilk.
Loviatar
@Baud:
For men yes, I can see them saying that. But a woman has to say “I’m not really special and I’m not important in the scheme of things.” While I can kind of, maybe, possibly stumble upon a reason why a woman may say something like that about herself I truly can’t understand why she would say it about her daughters.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@Baud: That’s a good point. I bet they wish they had super delegates.
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
Wow, what an excellent night for the Clinton campaign. She stopped some nagging story lines in their tracks and is heading into the general election in very good shape.
Baud
@Loviatar: Better for her daughters not to have a mom who is not a social pariah or to be social pariahs themselves. I think it’s quite easy to get there.
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: They can’t. He has the pledged delegates who all have to vote as pledged on the first ballot. Besides, Trump is who they are.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Who’s in charge of the rules committee?
Baud
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
@OzarkHillbilly:
The only thing I can think of is that they get the rules committee of the convention to allow delegates to vote for someone else on the first ballot or make some other change like make the delegates vote advisory only. Seems unrealistic to me.
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA: Great minds.
Applejinx
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: Curb stomps and threats are more important than the celebration of women at a historic moment, and more important than the political wishes of Hillary Clinton, eh?
Are you male? Wild guess there. ;P
Bernie is NOT the only candidate who can’t control his people toward a constructive end. I guess there is no such candidate. Oddly heartwarming, really ;P
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: The rules committee can change the rules for nomination, of course it would cause a riot in the convention hall.
OzarkHillbilly
Who they are, my Senator:
Because you never, never, say how you really feel about those people….
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
Here’s the meeting:
Somebody needs to tell the useless old fuck that this isn’t a college sit-in with feckless administrators making decisions.
Baud
@Applejinx:
No, but he can control himself. I don’t mind if he wants to complete the circuit in DC, but now that California is over, I really hope there is an immediate change in his rhetoric and that he stops suggesting he’s going to try to flip superdelegates.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA: I hope so. I’m still not confident our convention will be disruption free.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
(Darling Photo)
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: Only if they want to destroy their party. Right now they are likely to get app 45% of the vote. Not enuf for the Presidency, but with gerrymandering and voter suppression it can still ensure a majority of the House and compete in the undemocratic Senate. If they try to rig the rules to avoid their well deserved fate by denying the racist misogynistic xenophobic hate filled base their doppelganger, they might not even reach 27%.
They are stuck with him.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
Spoiler Alert (photo)
RK
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class:
So Clinton didn’t negotiate State with Obama?
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: True, not with Bernie saying he’ll take his case to the convention.
On a related note; as a reward for voting, I got me some In-n-Out.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA: You deserve it, man.
Applejinx
@Baud: Leave it. That’s silly. Are you kidding? Why are you even arguing this? Don’t be a Botsplainer.
There’s already been an anti-Trump angle to the rhetoric. He’s never going to drop the ‘wealth inequality’ angle, nor should he as it’s goddamn killing this country and Hillary has to deal with that problem from day one. He has to pretend he can flip superdelegates to justify taking it to the convention, and he has to take it to the convention because he promised his people he would do that and he doesn’t break his word to people who’ve kept faith with him.
Ask either Clinton about THAT. They understand. Of course he has to take it to the convention.
This is now about winding the personality side of things down, and keeping the documented issues on board that are driving a huge-ass chunk of the Democratic electorate. I trust Hillary Clinton to do that.
It’s why I’m so mad at Botsplainer this morning. Way to muddy the issue and make it look like Hillary people are everything the bros say they are, dude. Maybe you should say poor people need to work harder and go to college so they can be like you, a real person. Jesus fucking christ, on the morning we should be uniting around Hillary’s ability to read the political winds and sail into the White House on them and KEEP FAITH with those who need her, and you’re still carrying on about Bernie as if he could possibly win. Breathe. Nobody’s hitting you, for fuck’s sake.
I suppose it’s possible it’s Bernie’s platform that must be destroyed with all prejudice. Maybe Trump can help you with that, but good luck finding Democrats ready to go to war against the poors.
OzarkHillbilly
Statement from President Obama just released by the White House Press Secretary.
rikyrah
Thanks for the Hamilton focused tweet. LOVE IT ?
Kay
@Baud:
If polls change and Trump is down 7 or 8 or10 points v Clinton the GOP base will accept a rule change and a replacement.
Trump lies about polls. He did it again last night. He says he’s up against Clinton in “all the polls”. His supporters and much of the GOP base believe he is going to win. If they stop believing that they’ll dump him in a heartbeat.
Chyron HR
@Applejinx:
BOOOO! BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
That’s what Bernie wants us to do when Hillary is mentioned, right?
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@RK:
Clinton got a helluvalot more support and votes then than Sanders did now, had been an utterly loyal and helpful democrat for decades, was known for competence, didn’t target the head of the DNC, didn’t whine about the process or the party itself.
Bernie is acting like the titular leader of a college sit-in, facing off against moron academics. Fuck him – he gets nothing.
Baud
@Applejinx:
If he has to do that, then you have to accept that people will continue to trash him. It comes with the territory.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@Applejinx:
The Politico article told me everything I need to know about your boy. I thought he was just a feckless leader, incapable of corralling his most abrasive partisans. Instead, he’s driving them.
Personally, I’m liking the sound of the words “Senator Dean”.
Jeff Spender
Clinton’s win in California was a blowout. So far it’s almost 13%.
Beyond what I had thought it would be. That’s a convincing and decisive win.
Baud
@Kay: Still worried Kasich will come back in that scenario?
germy
Baud
I wonder when the Clinton team will unveil the Elizabeth Warren endorsement.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@Applejinx:
By the way, at its core, Sanders’ agenda sucks. Permanent agitation isn’t a governing strategy.
Oh, and the tepid Obama statement above? It is about unity. I’m not so bound.
amk
@Applejinx:
/
You can step off your perch and stop lecturing now.
germy
@Baud:
Is it possible Elizabeth is waiting for Bernie to concede, out of respect for his efforts? It there a protocol?
BillinGlendaleCA
@Jeff Spender: It’s about what the polls predicted, excluding the few outliers that showed a 2% Clinton lead that the press kept reporting as though they were the only polls.
Kay
@Jeff Spender:
That’s great because to me it means the Dem base is coalescing. I was confident they would. Voters are often ahead of pundits. I think they should be, because if pundits are ahead of voters then pundits are too far out front and they don’t belong there :)
One of the reasons I thought Clinton would be strong is that she, personally, has a really loyal and resilient base. I just remember how they were in the ’08 primary in OH w/Obama. They were serenely SURE and unshakeable. We were wasting our time trying to get them to switch :)
I think we’ve seen that group come out over and over in the primary. There are a lot of them.
debbie
@Baud:
Hell, yes.
Applejinx
@Chyron HR: Who cares? We already know his feelings are ‘all pissed off’. You need to ask yourself, why did Hillary’s crowd NOT boo at the name of Sanders?
Because she didn’t want them to.
Because they respect her god DAMN wishes and her discipline and her ability to deal with a situation and get the best outcome from it.
Because they recognize and understand that she fully intends to win over those people, and very likely because somebody passed the word, ‘I don’t care how you feel about it, give Sanders a little cheer to show goodwill and it will get us votes’. And her people, at her campaign event, cared about HER INTERESTS and weren’t stupid fucking internet trolls running their little feelings wherever they liked.
Of course Clinton’s won California by a good margin. She is better. Doesn’t mean she shouldn’t put DWS out to pasture (DWS sucks, and is no Hillary Clinton, though the Clinton loyalty will doubtless have her set up nicely for the rest of her days). Doesn’t mean she shouldn’t move to bring the defeated Sanders forces under the wing of the overall Democratic party.
And that’s easy, because all you have to do is go through all those Bernie stump speeches (oh, sorry, ‘speech’ since it never changes) and pay attention to what’s being said, and do something constructive about it.
Or, you know, you could boo him, vow to exact political vengeance and primary him (ha! fuck you, my senator, NOT yours), and demand that everything he stood for be banished from the party. If you really REALLY want to lose to an angry yam wearing a marshmallow peep on its head.
Actually, that sounds kind of yummy, if you cook it enough o_O
OzarkHillbilly
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class:
It’s also about graciousness.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Applejinx: DWS’s term is up at the end of the year, there will be a new DNC chair.
Betty Cracker
@Applejinx: I don’t think Sanders will really take it to the convention in July, or at least I hope to Christ not. My guess is he drops out after getting drubbed in the DC primary next week or maybe even later this week. There’s no fucking way President Obama is staying on the sidelines for another month and a half, and Sanders will look like an idiot if his campaign is still going on when the president wades into this election on behalf of Clinton and the rest of the Democrats.
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA: And hopefully not an officeholder.
Applejinx
@OzarkHillbilly: It’s about WINNING.
The Dem base IS coalescing. It will regardless of what internet people want.
All that has to happen is Democrats acting like Democrats. Democrats WANT to act like Democrats. Being able to talk about justice and equality, breaking glass ceilings, taking care of Main Street and American values, is a breath of fresh air!
We can do this, honestly we can. It’s time for the grown-ups to step in.
Kay
@Betty Cracker:
Rachel Maddow is doing her “there will be a catastrophe at the convention!” thing again. She did the same thing in ’08.
I sometimes think she’s in the wrong line of work. She seems to need certainty and rigid order. A lot of times people aren’t rational. That’s just how they are. It’s either embrace that or be fretting constantly.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Absolutely.
debbie
@OzarkHillbilly:
There will be very little of that in this general election.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
there’s just no enthusiasm for Clinton (photo)
Applejinx
@Betty Cracker: Depends what you mean by ‘it’.
My reading of the threads suggests that Bernie’s now talking about taking, not himself, but planks for the Dem platform to the convention. And this is why he’s unhappy: after California he’s forced to cooperate rather than compete. It can’t be him so it’s got to be his platform, going on without him.
I think that would go over better than expected among his supporters, and I think that’s the best option we’ve got.
Means Bernie can go all the way to the convention, still giving speeches and rallies and such, but rather than so much ‘send ME to the White House!’ it becomes ‘send a message, steer the Democratic Party’, which was his original campaign intention way back in 2015. He can take THAT to the convention because there is no chance he will be the actual nominee, and in so doing he’ll be representing a lot of people whose concerns must be represented if we’re gonna win really big and get stuff done.
RK
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class:
To think that Obama gave Clinton State due to competence or Dem loyalty is laughable and Bernie has a legitimate gripe with DWS and the DNC. Leverage is the only thing that matters here and Sanders has enough support to wield that leverage. How much is another question. If you’re so pissed at the Bern Man’s behavior (which is understandable) stop behaving like him. And now I must be off.
OzarkHillbilly
@debbie: Well, when Republicans get involved, what do you expect?
satby
@Baud: Yeah. Bernie brings it all on himself, and keeps digging that hole deeper. Fuck him.
amk
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Great pic.
sherparick
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: He still got 12 million votes, who I would like to vote in November for Secretary Clinton and as she said, his goals and her goals on domestic policy line up pretty well, just the process of getting there is different. At the same time, watching the speech last night and some comments from Bernistas after the electoral thumping they got in New Jersey and California, is that they are reminding me of the Black Knight (its just a flesh wound). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKhEw7nD9C4
OzarkHillbilly
Paul Ryan Is Pretty Sure Welfare Recipients Are Not Working Hard Enough
The man who in his entire adult life has never held a real job thinks he is qualified to judge other people’s work ethic. Too too rich.
rikyrah
I realized that I am actually going to buy a couple of newspapers this morning. Want to see that headline.
debbie
@debbie:
I shouldn’t have left it at just those two words. I base my belief in Kasich’s continuing delusions on the speech he gave at a state GOP dinner last weekend.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Applejinx: Isn’t that what having representatives on the platform committee are for?
ETA: Now if Bernie thinks that they will adopt his platform in toto, they won’t, he didn’t win the nomination.
Baud
@sherparick: They’ve already negotiated seats on the platform committee. It’ll get done. Clinton’s team will be more clear headed about this than blog commenters.
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA: Will you stop doing that?
Applejinx
@sherparick: Gotta wind people down and persuade them that their interests can be served by supporting Hillary Clinton (and making the House and Senate Democratic). Times have changed and any good politician can see that this is a great time to be a Democrat, and to push for old school Democratic values.
We don’t have to fuck around playing ‘permanent Republican majority’ anymore, they’ve imploded. Time to mend broken things.
Baud
@debbie: I don’t think it’ll happen. If they replace Trump somehow, Ryan is the only reluctant warrior who can step in.
BillinGlendaleCA
@RK: DWS IS GONE AT THE END OF THE YEAR! She won’t be going anywhere until then. It would be incredibly disruptive for the general election and probably help elect Donald Trump President.
germy
http://www.nystateofpolitics.com/2016/05/ny-19-heaney-endorsing-trump-urges-unity/
BillinGlendaleCA
@OzarkHillbilly: Didn’t he drive the wienermobile?
HelloRochester
Congratulations Hilbots. Hope you’ve cleared your calendars for the next 5 months, because your sure thing is about to get carpetbombed with 25 years of expensively manufactured and stunningly effective ratfking and if you don’t GOTV, you’re doomed- there’s an Army of blue haired racist olds who have been vaccinated by Roger Ailes to reject Hillary and embrace Trump. And they vote in numbers that no other demographic votes. Unfortunately you can’t win the General by taking a steaming dump on Sanders supporters.
Kay
@Baud:
I think Kasich could come back in that scenario, but this is the GOP base we’re talking about. I think they pick Cruz. That would solve two problems. The base couldn’t say the candidate wasn’t far Right enough (Romney, McCain). They’d be out of excuses for losing Presidential races.
Applejinx
@Baud: Yep. I trust Clinton’s people more than I’d have believed possible.
You know, what impressed me most was reading that Clinton’s people gave Bernie’s name a cheer. I’m really, seriously impressed by that. I would not have been horrified at subdued booing, or laughter or something. Unsurprisingly, Bernie’s people weren’t as disciplined as that—but Hillary’s, were.
Now if THIS blog had got the memo, I could’ve been all giddy with fellow-feeling among all the nice Democrats and pumped up with glee to go defeat our common enemy. But this is of course Balloon Juice. So, fuck you all, and the skulls of your kittens. Booo. :D
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: What? Stop Making Sense?
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
Another fine quote for Obama on the demands of Sanders:
Applejinx
@HelloRochester: Yeah, worked so well for ¿Jeb?
germy
@BillinGlendaleCA: Drove the hotdog truck for a few weeks and lounged around (on salary) in his uncle’s law firm for a few months. Then on to Public Service™.
Betty Cracker
@Applejinx: One thing I’m finding incredibly frustrating about Sanders and some of his supporters is that they talk as if the Democratic Party is still in 1992 DLC mode and they need to ride in and restore it to its liberal roots. That’s bollocks. Obama happened. The party has evolved. Clinton and Sanders share the same goals, mostly — the disagreement is on how to reach them, and she won that argument. Most of the “demands” I’ve seen from the Sanders camp have been related to petty score settling, such as ousting DWS or ejecting Malloy and Frank from the rules committee, etc. That has fuck-all to do with income inequality.
Applejinx
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: Hush. Grown-ups are talking.
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA: Expressing my thoughts before I have a chance to.
Although, it does fill me with joy that so many of my supporters are on the same wavelength as I am. A true mark of leadership, if I do say so myself.
Carolyn Kay
@Betty Cracker: And won’t it be cool when the first black president hands the reins to the first woman president?
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: As my dad used to say, “Don’t break your arm patting yourself on the back.”
Emma
@Applejinx: I’m all for it. I am sure Hillary’s people are working on it. Now will you get the unity memo out to Bernie and his supporters? Because threatening to withhold their votes and to “continue the fight even after the election” doesn’t seem to me to be very unifying.
Baud
@Kay: Haha Cruz. I’ll just put this here.
Chyron HR
@HelloRochester:
It’s funny that while Sanders delusionally refers to himself as “the next President of the United States” even his most fanatical supporters openly admit that he’s not even getting the nomination.
germy
@Betty Cracker:
True.
But what I hear from my Bernie friends is Obama was a neoliberal “republican lite”, who was allowed to distract us with his hope & change rhetoric while preserving the status quo on Wall Street and the military. They point to the fact he bailed out the banks and didn’t order every member of the Bush administration to be frog marched in front of a tribunal.
And they get mad if I say anything impolite about Nader.
So that’s their logic.
Applejinx
@Betty Cracker: I agree. That’s why I have hope for the foreseeable future (though it’s gonna be a rough ride, I fear).
You’re absolutely right. I noticed. My hope is that with some of the dead-enders, since they are so damn determined that Hillary is literally identical to her most 90s positions, that ‘look, there is change!’ can work (and ‘look, there is change, thanks to Bernie representing a lot of voters, you matter!’ can be a vote-winning strategy).
“You’re completely wrong” never won anyone’s vote. “Yes, and” is a lot more effective. We need effective.
I agree that petty grudge-settling has fuck-all to do with the real platform, and I am disappoint (very disappoint) in that stuff. But it’s the ugly end of a losing campaign that’s been close enough to get desperate, and I kind of understand where that personal crap is coming from, even if I don’t support it.
You’re right, most of the party is already thoroughly liberal and has common goals. Part of the remaining trouble is how to handle the kabuki of bringing on board, people who DO think there must be change in order to represent liberal ideals. If they can’t see it, you gotta do a few passes and make showy ‘concessions’ over things that were already there. This is politics.
Applejinx
@Emma: Do you not think I’m trying? As for ‘continue the fight even after the election’, I’m pretty sure that was Borowitz. He’s a comedian, and that wasn’t real o_O
germy
@Chyron HR: Has Jane Sanders given any more interviews? I don’t notice her much any more. For a while she showed up on all the talking tv panels.
bmoak
@Betty Cracker:
I could be mistaken, but when Sanders got to name his people for the platform committee, I don’t remember any of them as having a background in economic/financial reform. Except for West, they were good picks, but given how one-note Bernie has been on issues, I would have thought he would have selected people who had the expertise to craft platform planks on these issues.
Applejinx
@germy: He did bail the banks. He got his (our) money back, but it wasn’t good for the banks, because it only emboldened them to keep going.
Unless I miss my guess, Hillary talked to them (at least Goldman Sachs) and said what she says she said: basically ‘you’re awesome, now be good and self-regulate for the good of everyone, I know you can’. I’m pretty sure they didn’t give a shit about any of it past ‘you’re awesome’.
My hopes there are: I don’t trust the banks to be good just because Hillary asked. I think they’re going to betray her, take advantage and think they can get anything they want out of her.
My reading of the Clintons is: they are mistaken if they think that. Hillary will give them rope and will support them quite earnestly, but it’s conditional, it’s a quid-pro-quo. To earn Clinton loyalty you have to be loyal to them in return, and she needs more than just bribery, she’s already got money. She needs the banks to stay shipshape and not fuck up the whole economy. If they blow up, Mama spank.
It’s not so much ‘you must not oppose a Clinton’. I think it’s more like ‘if you pretend to be friends and THEN betray a Clinton, there will be trouble and they’ll never forget it and you’re on the shitlist forever’.
Since the banks are most certainly on MY shitlist, I would delightedly approve of Hillary making a new shitlist entry. I note that she’s recently had reason to add Associated Press to the shitlist: corporate media, not acting in the best interest of the Republic, check.
Betty Cracker
@Applejinx: Thoughtful response, thank you. I agree there will be kabuki — there’s always kabuki. I believe if Sanders plays ball, i.e., suspends his campaign and endorses Clinton no later than next Tuesday, we’ll see a fine song and dance at the convention in July.
BillinGlendaleCA
@bmoak: Robert Reich instead of West would have been an excellent choice, but he did serve as Sec. Labor in the first Clinton administration.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@Applejinx:
*guffaw*
Your boy got delusions of competence from serving as a village mayor of a place barely bigger than an HOA (with the diversity to match), and went on to be a mediocrity as a backbencher from a low population, homogenous demographic of earnest white people state.
Fuck you. Fuck him. Quit shifting the goalposts on his multitude of weaknesses, grifts, flaws and failures of character.
And while you’re at it, your time would be better spent hunting monster.com for a real job, something I believe that you’ve stated you lack. I generally take seriously the observations of people whose lives generally reflect a sense of effort and achievement.
gogol's wife
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
Okay, you’re making me cry.
It really is visceral for women. I didn’t think I cared that much. But pictures of little girls are slaying me.
OzarkHillbilly
@BillinGlendaleCA: As I recall, in college, what I refer to as ‘pre-adult employment’.
Kay
@Baud:
I was thinking about him last night and hoping they were being mean to him in the Senate. You forget they have to go back to work after making asses of themselves.
My other impression was Trump’s use of his family is weird. They don’t seem like his family. They’re more like “an entourage”. It’s as if Obama trotted out Michelle and the girls to stand there silently every time he was in trouble – like bouncers or security. It’s odd, like he doesn’t really understand how that visual is used in politics.
Villago Delenda Est
@Terry chay: The Horse Race is the only meme the Village has, and they’re sticking to it.
Wipe them out. All of them.
gogol's wife
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
I want that shirt!
BillinGlendaleCA
@OzarkHillbilly: I had one of those jobs, I worked in one of the campus restaurants. It taught me that I never want to work around food.
gogol's wife
@rikyrah:
Chris Jackson FTW.
amk
celebrating the historic moments.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Kay: Also, his wife’s dress looked really awful on camera; it was much too vibrant. It was almost painful to look at and it distracted from him(while that might be a good thing, it’s not the intent).
Villago Delenda Est
@Kay: Don’t fool yourself. Conservatism cannot fail, it can only be failed. Should they substitute Cruz for Drumpf, and Cruz loses, it will be because he wasn’t conservative enough.
FlipYrWhig
@Applejinx:
Unless I miss my guess, you have feces where most people have a cerebrum.
But it’s mean to talk about his ugly, desperate crap, because Bernie Sanders and his fans are fragile flowers.
You know what ELSE is politics? Taking your lumps and shutting the fuck up instead of pretending you have a lot of conditions and demands after losing a giant piece of your ass in the biggest state in the union, which you thought you had a chance to win.
Baud
@Kay:
This troubles me, Kay.
FlipYrWhig
@bmoak:
It’s almost as though Bernie Sanders hasn’t said anything about “income inequality” for several months, rolled out no plan for how to do anything about it beyond point and say “bad,” and instead decided to run a political campaign solely about how it’s NO FAIR to have a run a political campaign a certain way.
Patricia Kayden
@germy: Hilarious parody of what has become a ridiculous bid for the Democratic nomination. Senator Sanders needs to concede with the dignity he still has in him. Otherwise he is simply embarrassing himself. For the sake of the country, we need to support Secretary Clinton.
Kay
@gogol’s wife:
It’s hard to explain. I was happier than I thought I’d be too.
We have a new magistrate, a woman. I’m cranky about changes and I really liked the old magistrate – we genuinely got along. I use “sir” interchangeably with “your honor” just because I would be repeating “your honor” over and over. I’m in there all the time- 5,6,7 times a week- and I get worked up and anyway, i called her “sir”. She really laughed- not polite laughter- and she said “I know it’s hard to get used to”.
Applejinx
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: I am an independent developer programming audio DSP plugins for Macintoshes, and have been working in that field since 2007, producing a total of 179 software plugins in that time, some of which are revolutionary in their own right. I hang out with the producers of platinum records and have their respect, and by that I mean of acts like Cyndi Lauper, ZZ Top, Led Zeppelin: the guys engineering that stuff, those are my peers. I’ve technically impressed the guy who invented the class D amplifier. I work with thousands of dollars worth of audio gear regularly because that’s what ‘investment’ means to me: tools to do this work.
My income tracks very closely to certain Fed statistics having to do with velocity of money: there are FRED charts I’ve seen that exactly represent how much I’ve made over the years. The economy sucks in real terms, and my producer friends are just as subject to it: the people in that community and particularly musicians (with whom we work) are dying off, desperate, starving. I’m in no better position just because I’m in software, but it does matter to me that I’m part of the community that has meant so much to me, even when we are all truly fucked by the digital economy and the amazing extraction of capital from literally everything that used to keep us in business.
I have no idea who the fuck YOU are, Botsplainer, but from what I remember around Balloon Juice you are a rich male lawyer… if that’s even true.
By all means carry on being the parody of a bad 90s movie. If you’re appalling enough, maybe we can claim you are DougJ :)
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
Holy crap.
Sherrod Brown is now an enemy of the people.
He’s turned into Captain Queeq.
OzarkHillbilly
@FlipYrWhig:
Getting over your hurt feefees because some Berniebro somewhere said some stupid mean things about you, or your candidate, or your candidates supporters or…
Really, it’s time.
MomSense
@OzarkHillbilly:
Our President is remarkably gracious after Sanders’ crowd booed both Obama and Clinton last night. Sanders should have told them to be quiet and learn some damned R-E-S-P-E-C-T.
Ok I’m going to go sing some Aretha and not let the ugliness of the Sanders “revolution” spoil my joy at our historic achievement.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
I suppose it’s a good sign that what should be a watershed moment, the first woman nominated for president by a major political party, doesn’t feel like one. I mean it’s hilarious they way the media has made out Hilary as a good old boy Washington insider.
Aimai
@Applejinx: oh please! I have never been publicly disrespectful to bernie or his fans. But during an energetic primary we were all entitled to speak our minds on blogs. I am sick of Bernie supporters demanding simultaneously thst we respect his authority, ignore his insults, and give him a worshipful standing ovation for showing up. He is just a politician and his voters are just voters. Both, apparently, thin skinned and narcissistically passionate. Yes–I got tired of having my candidate called a whore and also being chided that if she and I didnt find some magic words Bernie and his voters would blow up the country.
Kay
@Baud:
I loved Ted Cruz. That would have been 1. a very funny race and 2. a sure thing.
Imagine how pompous and self-assured his concession speech would be. You never have to feel bad for him.
Betty Cracker
@Kay: Trump understands visuals on an arm-candy, mafia-don level, but he seems unable to move beyond that framing. He doesn’t grasp that he has to appeal to audiences beyond those impressed with his alpha dog shtick.
Applejinx
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: Oh, and if you are a lawyer and not a proper small business owner, as far as I am concerned you are no better than a fry cook at McDonalds, only with lies instead of burgers.
:D
Now settle down, this thread is about celebrating Hillary’s awesome and well deserved victory. Together we can sweep the elections and give Hillary a Senate and House that will let her get seriously to work :)
Betty Cracker
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: It feels like a watershed to me.
weaselone
Good fight on both sides. Now it’s time to move forward. It’s going to be a tough slog even against Trump when probably over 50% of the voting public believes BS like illegal aliens collect 900 billion in welfare every year. I don’t need the BJ trolls to inform me of the impact of decades worth of Republican propaganda. I see it whenever I crack open Facebook and see the crap my non politically active family posts.
Iowa Old Lady
@Betty Cracker: This will probably get my feminist card revoked, but when I see Trump lined up with his family behind him, I think of a Robert Palmer video.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Betty Cracker: That was my point as well, eye candy should be the thing that stands out in the picture; the candidate should.
Aimai
@OzarkHillbilly: flipyrwhig is talking about bernie. Are you arguing that bernie is influenced by the criticism of random blog posters?
FlipYrWhig
@Aimai: THIS THIS THIS
Emma
@Iowa Old Lady: Mine’s in the mail with yours. The one with all the identical blondes playing the identical instruments (or is that every Palmer video I’ve ever seen?).
BillinGlendaleCA
@Applejinx: IANAL(I’ve worked for them), but being a lawyer is much less messy than being a fry cook(I did that in college(see above)).
Baud
@Kay: I assume he’s thinking about 2020. So you may get that chance.
satby
@Aimai:
All while automagically reading the minds of Hillary Clinton and the President, ascribing bullshit motives to them, and damning them with faint praise for picking up Bernie’s torch. As if no one was a progressive before Sanders the crank came along to show us all how. And lecturing all of us, most of us actually involved in political campaigns longer than they’ve been alive, about “politics”.
FlipYrWhig
@Aimai: Eh, I was talking about both the candidate and his diehards (who he loves, you can tell). I was in a good mood before reading a bunch of Applejinx’s po-faced passive-aggressive lecturing about bad mean Clinton people who need to act better and non-bad non-mean Sanders people who just can’t help booing and holding grudges, bless their hearts, who can blame them? That sort of stuff gets under my skin.
gogol's wife
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
I say this every time, but
THE MESS BOYS ATE THE STRAWBERRIES!
Betty Cracker
@Iowa Old Lady & @Emma: Y’all mean like this?
MomSense
@Applejinx:
Simultaneously putting down fry cooks and judging what constitutes a “proper small business”.
Amir Khalid
@Applejinx:
If this is not straight-up prejudice, I don’t know what is.
msdc
@Betty Cracker: With Obama and Hillary at the table? I see it more like this.
Loviatar
@amk:
made me splurt my tea
amk
Hillary Clinton’s mother was born the very same day women were granted the right to vote.
satby
@FlipYrWhig: yep.
amk
@MomSense:
I am a reasonable guy shtick wore off pretty fast, didn’t it? I always pegged him as a lying pos.
Betty Cracker
@MomSense & @Amir Khalid: I’m gonna stick up for Apple here — Botsplainer was kind of a dick to him at #122, no? No need to get that personal and scoldy about someone’s employment situation, IMO.
msdc
@Iowa Old Lady: As do we all.
OzarkHillbilly
@Aimai: I’m saying take a deep breath. Politics is hard. Feelings get hurt. When you are the winner, be gracious.and allow the loser/s a little time to process. Doesn’t cost anything. And it will gain you plenty. Sure the hard core a-holes won’t come around, but then they never would, and it’s not about them anyway. It’s about all the others, like Applejinx, who have and will come around.
And if that’s not clear enough, it’s about following the example of the man in the Oval office who tomorrow will be talking to a man who spent more than a little time denigrating his accomplishments. You know, being an adult.
Oh wait a minute, this is a blog, how silly of me. Never mind.
rikyrah
@Kay:
But, the polls will be rigged to keep it close because the MSM wants that Citizens United money.
rikyrah
I was told that all I had to do was wait…
that Bernie, once seeing the inevitable, would fall in line, congratulate Hillary, and we could proceed.
that.has.not.happened.
uh huh
uh huh
Emma
@Betty Cracker: OOOOOH. Perfect!
satby
@Betty Cracker: probably due to all the hysterical “I just send Sanders more money I can’t afford” posts of several weeks ago.
FlipYrWhig
@OzarkHillbilly:
If the loser/s start warming up the same old bullshit, rumors, and conspiratorial rationalizations, I don’t feel like being gracious anymore.
Loviatar
Human Rights are Woman’s Rights and Women’s Rights are Human Rights
h/t VOX
satby
@OzarkHillbilly: love Ya Ozark, but the misogyny of many of the losers continues even after the apparent “coming around”.
Kay
@Baud:
He (supposedly) had a good operation but that might be Christian conservatives- they’re like an army. When I saw they were going to march out in formation for Bush in ’04 I knew it would be bad because Democrats were a grifter-ridden mess.
People thought I was nuts- babbling about minivans with Christian radio station stickers- but after the same sex marriage bullshit they were energized and determined.
OzarkHillbilly
@MomSense: @Amir Khalid: And all others upset by that: IT WAS A FKN JOKE!!! (who doesn’t tell lawyer jokes? Every lawyer I know does) And for the record, fry cook is one nasty, greasy, smelly job. I know because I was one and getting off work and removing those greasy clothes did nothing to remove the greasy smell and feeling from my skin. I’ve never met a fry cook who didn’t wish to be doing something else.
rikyrah
@Betty Cracker:
He doesn’t think that they are important. He doesn’t think that they count. At some level, all politicians have to ask people to vote for them. Trump believes that he can command people to vote for him.
Betty Cracker
@satby: I must’ve missed that. Anyway, new kumbayah post upstairs!
Patricia Kayden
@weaselone: I’m looking forward to the day when we no longer talk about Senator Sanders at all except as someone fighting for liberal/progressive causes in the Senate. Time to move on. Primaries are over and we need to defeat Trump and the rest of his Party.
Kay
@rikyrah:
I don’t care if it’s “close”. I expect Republicans to fall in line and I’m okay with 3 or 5 points because that’s more than enough. Clinton will go up now because Democrats will coalesce which puts her far enough ahead unless Trump moves up.
It would be wonderful to have a blowout wave but I’m okay with 3 to 5.
Aimai
@satby: a bernie person was just demanding hrc put a bunch of stuff into her platform (over at dkos) . People pointed out that all those things, specifically, had been in her platform frim day one. To which bernie guy answered that if it were “baked in” then she was at fault for, essentially, being prematurely anti fascist. In order to draw sufficient distinction to get traction bernie has been lying about hrc and training his followers to see her as an opportunistic liar. Most bernie supporters are just dems who can be reached with normal outreach. But the enraged minority simply cant be win over. Not because they are too progressive but because they experience themselves as too sngry and victimized by history and the establishment. Just like we cant waste time trying to convert trumps angry white male voters we cant waste too much time massaging the feelings of these wounded assholes online. Hrc, obama, and everyone else have to do what they have to do. But we dont.
Reggie Mantle
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class:
Yep. Little difference between a Clintonite and a Rethuglican. Thanks for taking the mask off.
Kay
@rikyrah:
African Americans are going to have rescue Strickland if he’s to win. That or a Dem wave. He’s just weak.
I don’t think they will. His “brand” was sort of Appalachian-lite. That just doesn’t fit the Dem Party anymore. I don’t know who his base voters are. Even labor people are sort of ambivalent on him.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I had always assumed St Bernard’s indifference to downticket races was born of arrogance and cluelessness, the Politico article suggests it’s all about pettiness and spite. I guess I’ve actually been overestimating the narcissistic old coot.
Thor Heyerdahl
@Reggie Mantle: does anyone know if cleek’s pie filter works on a mobile browser?
OzarkHillbilly
@FlipYrWhig:
Not speaking of you in particular, mainly because I know I have not read everything you posted since the beginning of this primary, but I have not read a gracious post about Bernie or his supporters in a long long time from certain corners of this commentariat, so for them “anymore” is not an option because they never were.
Applejinx has come around to Hillary’s side, and I hear a lot of people attacking AJ because he/she hasn’t come around to Hillary’s side in a way that is acceptable to them. And from some, it sounds like the only acceptable way is to come grovelling back on all fours begging forgiveness for her heresy.
And with that I have to go. Everybody will have to wait until tomorrow to beat up on me for my own heresy.
Glidwrith
@Applejinx:
Actually, a lot of the BernieBros have been verbally abusive. We have every right to validate that we were right, that we would WIN and that we deserve our victory dance without immediately cowtowing that we need, need, need people like that. Couldn’t you have waited just one day before demanding that we be concilitory towards our abusers?
FlipYrWhig
@Aimai:
I have a strong sense that many Bernie Sanders supporters think that Hillary Clinton _actively advocates_ the things they like least about her. Like that she barnstorms the country praising investment banks and foreign wars.
Applejinx
@Betty Cracker: Fry cooks make more than me :D
Never said I was better than a fry cook. I worked in a kitchen when I was younger, a pizza restaurant, and it was a tough and exhausting job when you got a serious rush. Programming is definitely easier even if there’s no money to be made anywhere anymore (even as a fry cook, once they automate that).
I am, however, certainly saying Botsplainer is not better than a fry cook ;)
Kay
@rikyrah:
Everyone thinks that thing Sherrod Brown does where he unites African Americans and labor and liberals and moderate Dems is easy, but it’s not. It’s so rare you can count them on one hand. Just “environmentalists + labor” is a fucking mine field.
He’s REALLY talented. Ted Strickland is not in that same league.
FlipYrWhig
@OzarkHillbilly: Applejinx has “come around” by deciding Hillary Clinton is a remorseless calculating machine devouring everything in its path, and so nakedly ambitious that she has to co-opt the better candidate’s positions and fake like she believes them. That’s obnoxious. I don’t have to listen to that shit on the morning after the better candidate, running as the first vocally feminist candidate in the history of the republic, scored a knockout over the hectoring, sanctimonious, unprepared, finger-wagging annoyance who’s said nothing about the principles he supposedly believes in for several months running, instead deciding that the most important issue to stir up his supporters about is… how to run for president. Who the fuck cares? What happened to income inequality and climate change and all that stuff? What a garbage fire that campaign became. And, judging by the Politico report, it’s all because Bernie Sanders, human being, is an ass.
FlipYrWhig
@Kay: According to the Politico post-mortem on Bernie Sanders:
I don’t see how someone who builds enemies lists like this could possibly be capable of leading any sort of movement.
Applejinx
@OzarkHillbilly: Hey, I’ve been noticing every time you (fellow ex-cook, I see) posted about moving on past the primary, and I damn well noticed you stickin’ up for me. Thank you.
In case anybody thought I was just running my mouth, and in spite of the risk that some of the posters are genuinely monsters:
http://www.airwindows.com/buying/
Hi, Balloon Juice! This is my day job. At this point, if I earned more politics-donation-money at it, it would have to go to Hillary. Fancy that ;)
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@Applejinx:
I’ve actually been a fry cook. Also a dishwasher, pot scrubber, bartender and expediter. I LOVE restaurant work, and think that people who tend to denigrate the jobs in kitchens to be raging assholes. The shit is hard, and requires A LOT of organization and time management skill which is really undercompensated ( or perhaps the costs of rent and utilities are too high).
Anyway, I have always been quite good at it, and do well even now at putting together coherent meals for decent numbers of people.
MomSense
@OzarkHillbilly:
Yeah, working as a fry cook/short order cook was one of my three jobs summers between college. I did it for four years. My kids have also worked as fry cooks while going through school. One is now a chef and the other is working on a line as one of his two jobs until school starts again in September. It’s not the lawyer joke that gets me, it’s the attitude where he puts down people who earn an honest living while simultaneously acting like he can judge which businesses are proper.
@Betty Cracker:
I’m not defending Botsplainer. I am saying that Apple is acting like an arrogant ass putting people down and judging what businesses he finds suitable. Saying I don’t appreciate what Apple is saying doesn’t mean I’m defending Botsplainer. I don’t understand why Apple has to turn around and put others down if Botsplainer is bothering him.
Also, too a criminal defense lawyer in Maine died suddenly recently and the concert venue in Portland was full to the brim. It wasn’t just rich people there. It was the employees he paid well and lots of people he helped who paid nothing or reduced fees for his legal services. We love to talk about how unfair the criminal justice system is and how people get screwed for minor drug offenses but some of the people who are actually doing the work of trying to repair an unfair system are lawyers.
Honestly, one of my critiques of the Sanders campaign generally is that there seems to be more discussion of “income inequality” and less actual advocacy for poor people who need help now. All those people who turned out for rallies in Medicaid-non expansion states could have mobilized to help people who can’t access health care. Sanders could have talked about it, used his bully pulpit to shame the governors and/or legislators who would rather their citizens suffer.
Whatever. I’m just really tired of being shamed by people who are supposed progressives but seem to feel comfortable judging the world in such absolute and intolerant terms.
Applejinx
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: Yeah it is! I found it very difficult. That was an amazing time I’ll never forget.
To this day I make breakfast by timing an omelet, bacon, a sausage and some oatmeal and some coffee or tea to all come up together, and that’s a maximum of only three things on burners at once with some of them not even capable of burning. Plus they’re all in sight at all times. Restaurant work is way beyond that, all night long, and you’ve got to ride the waves of customers.
Nice to exchange a friendly word among all the patented Ballon Juice Hate Snark. Cheers :)
FlipYrWhig
@MomSense: I still don’t really know what “income inequality” is. I know what a social safety net is, and I know what redistribution is, and I know what better tax policy is, and I believe in all of those. But the phrase “income inequality” is just leaden to me. It seems to cry out for the response, “Well, some people have always made more money than other people, so what’s your point?” It’s like “single payer,” where there always has to be that second step where you say _who the single payer is_, which for some reason isn’t in the name. SMH.
Carolyn Kay
@HelloRochester: Why are you helping right-wing hatemonger and dirty trickster Roger Stone (http://bit.ly/224NZrM)?
MomSense
@Amir Khalid:
Exactly.
Applejinx
@FlipYrWhig:
Do you have cash money you can bet on that, Whig? Dead serious. Interpret your statement literally, with ‘principles’ being the income inequality issue, and how much are you willing to bet? Let’s also specify ‘in public speeches with recorded evidence’ while we’re at it.
How much will you bet that you’ve just told the truth, as defined?
For ‘income inequality’, think Piketty, Mark Blyth, another good one is Douglas Rushkoff. The Gini coefficient speaks of structural income inequality. None of us (far as I know) mean that everybody is to be equal, it’s more about ‘one human being has no business owning as much resources as one-tenth of the entire country’ and so on. There’s a limit past which it gets stupid and harmful, and we’re waaaaay past that limit and accelerating.
Geeno
I have to agree with AJ here. This thread started as “Yay us!”, and morphed into “Fuck them!”. That’s awfully petty. Follow Blackazoid the Time Traveling Superhero’s example. Make nice with Bernie and those Bernista’s like AJ who want to make nice.
ETA: h/t to Jesse Taylor @ the late great Pandagon for the Obama nickname.
Barbara
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: They can’t deny him anything. He can drop out, but any external momentum to deny him will blow up their own electoral chances. And that, basically, is what they live for. Those two in particular.
Barbara
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: Anyone who is trying to achieve a negotiated settlement learns that timing is important. If you try to start negotiating only after it is clear that your side has lost, your power over the outcome diminishes to close to zero. Basically, you have to be in a position to give something in order to get something. Threatening to soldier on when the other side knows that you are out of options is a weak bargaining position. The only thing Sanders has to give right now is his support and encouragement to his supporters. If he threatens to withhold it then there is no reason to play ball.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@Thor Heyerdahl: I’ve successfully run both cleek’s filter and Troll-B-Gone on Firefox for Android with the add-on usi (User|Unified Script Injector).
I’m not an iThing user, but a quick google doesn’t reveal any way to run a userscript on them without jailbreaking.
Applejinx
@MomSense: I gotta say, however, I’ve never seen anything fizzle so epically in all my life.
To go after a lawyer saying ‘I only care about people who have achieved and made something of themselves in life!’…
And to say ‘well as far as I’m concerned you’re no better than a fry cook’…
And then to learn that apparently we are LITERALLY ALL fry cooks (or at least line cooks) and that everyone (me, Bot, MomSense, seemingly half the posters on Balloon Juice) know perfectly well that nobody is better than a fry cook just because they have a highly paying job…
Hilarious :D
So let’s all work to get those who are still fry cooks, $15 an hour or better.
And damn it, if Botsplainer had been a lawyer in the mold of Ted Cruz rather than a decent guy who trolls people hard on blogs, he really would have been apoplectic, and the prejudice would’ve been on him. But it turns out we’re fry cooks all the way down :)
Gotta love this blog
FlipYrWhig
@Applejinx: No one has paid any attention to Bernie Sanders’s statements on anything but superdelegates, how primaries are conducted, and committee chair positions since New York, especially after the terrible Daily News interview where he had a chance to talk about How To Do Things and fell on his ass. Whatever else he’s been saying — I’m sure the stump speech is still the same, like how millionaires and billionaires and Wall Street are bad and should be less bad — it hasn’t broken through. He had a megaphone, and instead of talking through it, he pissed in it, then used the megaphone to talk about relative megaphone size.
There’s a disjunction between observing a problem — some people have a lot more money than others — and mapping out an approach to solving that problem. As usual with Sanders, he lost interest in that last part. That’s kind of the important part. Refusing to do it was a disastrous missed opportunity for American liberalism. That’s on him. Total FAIL.
FlipYrWhig
@Applejinx: I was a busboy and a bagel-roller.
Applejinx
@FlipYrWhig: OK, so he HAS been saying exactly what he’s always been saying, but the media aren’t listening because they only want him to bitch about superdelegates. You know, I am sure you’re right, and I don’t endorse him carrying on about that stuff (it’s a distraction), and I’m sure you’re right that the media ignored his more appropriate message, just as they ignored Hillary’s wishes that they not announce her win in advance of the primaries.
And I’ve said before that I suspect Hillary can map out an approach to solving the problem (IF she chooses to) better than Bernie. I don’t think he lost interest, he’s interested, he’s just not as good as Hillary at this. I refuse to blame him for that. I wouldn’t be supporting Hillary if she wasn’t good at this.
Your beef is not about that, your beef is that I don’t trust her to WANT to do the right thing. But she wasn’t representing me, before. In fact she was representing New York, including Wall Street, and I think she did that quite well but it’s not the same.
And if you think Bernie not coming up with the answer is disastrous, then amazingly I guess I trust Hillary’s smarts more than you. It was never going to be Bernie figuring out the plan. I always expected there would be wonks coming up with something that would work.
President Wonk ought to do nicely.
Kay
@FlipYrWhig:
Brown will be a good surrogate for Clinton. He uses the word “trust” over and over when he appears on her behalf.
I’m not taking part in the circular firing squad where we have to make Sanders the enemy. I have never once seen it help anything in the Democratic Party. They’re going to talk him off the ledge not because they’re kissing his ass or bowing to “demands” but because they’re members of an organization and the whole is bigger than the sum of parts. Sherrod Brown is an ascendant leader. He’ll act like one.
MomSense
@Applejinx:
I’m not defending Botsplainer. You put people down.
muddy
@FlipYrWhig: I had a job in Oklahoma making rocks. Beat that.
aimai
@FlipYrWhig: This.
Also: I just don’t get the continued insistence that we can no longer argue with, or even discuss, Bernie and his politics and voters now because it might upset their feelings. They are either going to come around because reality, or they are going to refuse to come around because of SHIT TALKING BY BERNIE AND HIS VOTERS that is going on right now. The battle to get Bernie and his worst and most intransigent voters to come around isn’t over. Its happening right now. And we haven’t relinquished our right to chat about politics have we? I don’t see this kind of lecturing about “calm down” when people talk about sports here.
I guess speaking specificaly as a woman I am sick and tired of being made responsible for everyone’s feelings–for making it ok for Bernie to have lost. He’s a grown man. HIs voters, even the youngest of them, are grown adults. When you engage in politics and run in a race you have to know you could lose, and in this case, in a primary, your first duty after losing is to reunite with the party and throw your support to the winner. THAT IS ABSOLUTELY STANDARD. I am disgusted with Bernie that he is forcing better politicians and better people than himself, like Hillary Clinton and President Obama, to kow tow to him and to beg him to behave like a mensch. I am personally, politically, and Jewishly disgusted.
FlipYrWhig
@Applejinx: Bernie Sanders could be a good liberal gadfly and a very bad president, because those are different skill sets, absolutely. But even in his gadflying he screwed up badly, because he decided to burn high-profile media appearances talking about the primary process instead of putting people back to work, or combating climate change, or anything of that sort. All his energy went into grousing about how he’s been done wrong. It’s a waste. It’s a waste of a rare opportunity to be a gadfly when people who don’t typically listen to you are primed to listen to you. Political malpractice.
FlipYrWhig
@muddy: That’s a pretty lousy job. Not the rocks part, the Oklahoma part. :P
r€nato
Ana Navarro is a closet Democrat. I don’t know what’s in her background that motivates her to stick with the GOP (daddy issues?), but she just seems like a decent person who has fooled herself into thinking the GOP is something other than what it’s become, and that it’s possible to get it back.
The GOP is much like the kingdom of Westeros in GoT. At one time it was a proud institution; it has steadily degraded itself to the point of no return and there’s no getting it back, not without it burning down and starting over.
I suspect the only reason she hasn’t gone Democrat by now is that she would be giving up her career as a Republican. You don’t get to switch sides and slide into the same niche on the other team.
Applejinx
@MomSense: …
That was a trick that didn’t work. It didn’t work because Bots can be REALLY annoying but has had more breadth of experience than I thought.
The trick was to respond to ‘life of achievement’ talk by saying ‘you are not better than a fry cook’. I WAS a line cook. Turns out so was he. So was OzarkHillbilly, and a bunch of other liberals here. So it became sort of ‘yeah, so?’
If it’d been Ted Cruz (perfect example, and another lawyer) then he would have been totally, utterly insulted and would have made sure I knew that he WAS much better than a fry cook. But since we here know that’s bullshit, it would have been a trick to make ‘Ted Cruz’ go from talking about ‘I’ll only listen to you if you’ve strived and achieved and bettered yourself’ to ‘lesser people are not as good as me’.
(as an aside: this is why I’m instantly suspicious of that sort of talk, Bots. I didn’t know you weren’t Ted Cruz… but you didn’t know that I too have done exactly what you talk about. It ain’t my fault that the only way to make money now is by manipulating capital, or otherwise fucking people over. I will admit to not doing those things, because I truly hate them and the people who do them)
Let’s just say that I tried to get Botsplainer to put himself down, and it didn’t work because he’s a better man than Ted Cruz (probably a lot better, I can’t speak to how much better), and it’s fry cooks all the way down around here.
Kay
@Applejinx:
:)
Applejinx
@FlipYrWhig: That’s the real reason he lost.
Almost said ‘we lost’, but that implies voting for Hillary is losing.
And THAT is a darn good reason not to go telling the deadender Berniecrats that they suck, their candidate sucks, and they lost.
Turn it around. If you folks can be believed, and I’d sure like to think you can…
…then how could voting for Hillary, be LOSING? Think of it as winning in a different, other way.
Spin it as people GETTING to vote for Hillary in the general, because she’ll do what Bernie couldn’t have done, and the intentions were always pretty much the same.
aimai
@Applejinx: You continually mistake discussion here for discussion in the real world. Its not. I don’t need your lectures on how to talk to disapointed Bernie supporters in the real world. You are not a particularly skillful analyst of human nature or of politics and you just aren’t qualified to lecture people here either on Hillary as a candidate or on Bernie supporters as people. You just aren’t. I think that is what people are responding to in your posts. Stop lecturing us about how to talk to people. And stop lecturing us on how to express our enthusiasm for our candidate. Our enthusiasm matters just as much as the ex bern-feelers. Its going to be our money, time, and enthusiasm that puts our candidate over the top. I have zero fucks to give about the feelings of dead enders. And if they aren’t dead enders, they aren’t in this conversation since in the perfectly ordinary context of the general election they will be reached out to and talked to (very nicely) just like every other voter.
FlipYrWhig
@aimai: Co-sign, if I may.
SciNY
I get that it’s difficult to wind things down when a close-fought contest ends. Still, every kid on a sports team knows you have to line up, shake hands, and say “good game” when the last inning or period or half is over. The winners don’t gloat and the losers don’t sulk or whine about the calls that didn’t go their way. I’m glad to see Hillary and Obama do their part, and I’m hoping Bernie comes around to do his. I have to say his dismissive treatment of Hillary’s historic accomplishment last night was disappointing but sadly what I expected, as he is a newcomer to team sports (party building). Hopefully he learns as fast as the kids I coach in Little League. Our party and our country are depending on it.
nastybrutishntall
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: dude. Just, no.
MomSense
@Applejinx:
Just BTW I work 7 days a week -three different jobs simultaneously still. I think people assume a lot about others and it is usually wrong or at least not the full picture. I actually prefer Clinton’s economic policies. I’m not comfortable and I’m not a boomer. There have been far too many labels and insults thrown around to go with the assumptions about why we vote the way we do.
Let’s hope Sanders stops encouraging his supporters to think the nominating process was rigged. Let’s hope he starts communicating expectations for respectful behavior. Let’s hope he endorses Clinton and works on her behalf. Those of us who are vulnerable cannot afford political games. We have to unify to defeat Trump.
Applejinx
@MomSense: It really was not rigged, and if Hillary wasn’t good at working the mechanics of the election system she wouldn’t beat the Republican (whether that be Trump, or Cruz, or even Paul Ryan). There’s a big difference between ‘rigged’ and going all out to get a victory, and it was a genuine hard-fought race very likely tougher than the general will be.
General’s for running up points so she can WORK as President, not just ‘barely win and get the job’. This is why I can’t let ‘dead-enders’ lie, and have to keep thinking of how to get ’em on board like me. We need an utter landslide and I think that is possible.
We do have to unify.
Facebones
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class:
I’d have gone with this one:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KjNe9fuqQ8o
MomSense
@Applejinx:
On this we agree 100%
aimai
@SciNY: I agree with this.
I want to add one thing that really still surprises me. Its how everyone on the Bernie side is acting as though these races aren’t run every four years (four or eight) and as though everyone doesn’t know in advance what it means to run in a party primary, for the privilige of representing the entire country as President. People keep saying “Hillary waited four days…” But the point about Hillary’s concession is that she already showed us how to do it. No one can ever pretend that they don’t know how to handle defeat not only graciously but vibrantly, exuberantly, and with the good of the party and the country in mind.
The party as a whole is just much more professional since Obama got in as leader. There was a huge transition between the kind of campaigns that were run pre Obama, and the way data was handled, and post Obama. There is a huge difference in the way the Conventions are run (since Bill Clinton) and there is, rightfully, a tremendous premium put on avoiding “Democrats in Disarray” or scenes of party disunity. Thats because its more important to get another Democrat into the White House than to satisfy the petty ego of any single candidate. We have finally learned, as a party,that there isn’t goign to be any kind of bipartisan governance. That its rule or ruin with the Republicans. We just can’t afford any cracks in our transition to power.
And I just don’t forgive Bernie for not being grown up enough to grasp this. Sure, people will forget his behavior if he calms down ina couple of days.But he’s god damned 74 years old and he is behaving worse than a toddler at someone else’s birthday party when he finds outhe doesn’t get to cut the cake and the presents aren’t for him.
aimai
@Applejinx: So take it up with the dead enders–if you are the guy at dkos who said he was giving 2700 to Hillary and got roundly attacked for it by the other former Bernie supporters you can already see how well that is going to go. If they won’t accept conversion narratives from you (which is what you are peddling) they are not going to accept olive branches from the rest of us.
What you are failing to grasp is that lots of us have spent months arguing with and trying to persuade Bernie’s dead enders about why we like Clinton–not why we didn’t like Bernie–but every attempt at connection was swatted away with insults and attacks. It was ugly, which doesn’t matter much, but more to the point it was entirely useless. You can’t appeal to people if they don’t recognize your legitimacy as a speaker. And I can assure you that the Bernfeelers online, which is what we are discussing, are not interested in any nice words or thoughtful analysis from Hillary supporters. We, like our candidate, are a lost cause to them.
Its up to Bernie and ex-Bernie supporters like yourself to bring the others along. There is pretty much nothing we can do.
dogwood
@aimai:
Long primaries like this should be a humbling experience for smug democrats who seem to believe that all the racist, mysoginist, resentful people in the country are republicans. Bernie’s got another week or so where he can provide a venue for people to boo Clinton, Obama, the DNC or whoever else is on their hit list at the moment. Then the money will dry up and he’s done. Populism isn’t about policy or governing; it’s a campaign strategy, and more often than not it’s pretty ugly. Democrats aren’t immune to it.
Uncle Cosmo
@amk: Untrue, & we should debunk this well-meant but inaccurate statement right now.
Dorothy Emma Howell Rodham was born on June 4, 1919, the day that the U. S. Congress passed what would eventually become the 19th Amendment & sent it to the states for ratification. Until ratified by the legislatures of 3/4 of the states, it had the same status as the proposed but never ratified (& thus never enshrined in law) Equal Rights Amendment.
The 19th Amendment did not become part of the Constitution (& thus the law of the land) until Tennessee became the 36th of 48 states to ratify it, on August 18, 1920. (You could look it up.)
The Other Chuck
@dogwood:
Of course not, it’s just that those are core values in the Republican party.
aimai
@dogwood: Never thought populism, especially that practiced by white males, was other than potentially damned racist and misogynistic. Populist movements, peasant movements, millanarian movements, cult movements, can be lots of things–some can transcend contemporary race/gender/class issues (Jim Jones, for instance, was an interracial social justice cult, the Albigensians were said to have some non traditional gender role stuff going on) but modern American populism is generally a largely white, working class or failed middle class phenomenon with a shitload of aggrieved white male privilige at the root.
chopper
@Applejinx:
your guy ran a consistently negative campaign, trashing the nominee and the entire party. now that clinton has it sewed up you want people to just forget it all and let bygones be bygones. that isn’t going to happen overnight. people are going to be pissed at bernie, and rightfully so, for a while. you should get used to it.
also too, this isn’t your blog, so your commandments mean nothing.
satby
@FlipYrWhig: Me too, also.
SciNY
The one saving grace in the current struggle to unify is that, with rare exceptions, most Americans (including members of our party) are small-d democrats. We have a long tradition of heeding the will of the people, as expressed by their actual votes. Hillary was in my opinion wrong in 2008 to count votes in unsanctioned contests as a source of popular legitimacy, and Bernie’s aim to flip superdelegates in contravention of the popular vote in 2016 is equally wrong. Though couched as a “better candidate” argument, this is just as much an “illegitimacy” argument — that the process by which we decide on who wins an election is so flawed (and not just imperfect or messy) that the votes themselves (or at least in certain types of elections or certain parts of the country) should not count. I rejected that cynical argument when made by Scalia et al in 2000, and it’s no more compelling now.
Applejinx
@aimai: Aimai… you guys persuaded ME.
Now you may call that useless but that’s a vote which I’ve got close personal friends AND FAMILY demanding should go to Jill Stein, or write in Bernie, or some such thing. Those are the voices in my ear, those are the people who I’m going to continue to see year after year, the circles I move in have a LOT of ‘Bernie or Bust’ and yet when you guys took a moment to do exactly what you said was so useless, I couldn’t help but notice.
What you are failing to grasp (at least for the moment) is that it’s the attempts to represent why you’re supporting Hillary, that made the difference. Not the battling words (which we’re all real good at, and sometimes it’s even fun) but the times when you dared open up a little and THOUGHT it did no good at all. I know exactly what posts, what events in the world, what Hillary tweets etc. tell me that my ‘dead ender crew’ are full of shit about her.
I know what persuaded me and what didn’t. I was there.
I’ve done as much as I can to try to bridge what makes sense to them, with what makes sense to you, and have a little hope that I might not be doing a foolish thing with the ‘conversion narrative’, but if not for you folks (and choices like Hils tweeting ‘happy Ramadan’) I wouldn’t be standing in no-man’s land getting shot by both sides for not being entirely in either camp. But it means I can see more of either camp, than they can see of the other. And I think this ‘uniting’ thing might just work.
And I think if we do that, we’ll get the Hillary that my dead-ender friends refuse to believe in, and nobody will mind some ‘I told you so’s after the fact. But we gotta get there.
Also, me give $2700? That is most certainly not my tax bracket. Knock off a zero and those are the figures I deal with. I find it hard to understand anyone who can spontaneously do $2700 things, though I have a brother like that and my parents ended up in that league.
grandpa john
@MomSense: yeah but talking about someone else would take the spotlight off him
grandpa john
@FlipYrWhig: I will add to it also. Hell I am 78 years old, first presidential election that I have memories of was Truman , Dewey in 1948,so I have some idea about elections and how candidates run their elections.
So I don’t really spend time being lectured to by people still wet behind the ears, and please forget about the spewing of the same old ideological bullshit from people that don’t even know what reality is
J R in WV
@Baud:
Way too late, but I’ma gonna esplain it. If the rules committee, meeting before the start of the convention to set the rules of the convention as they do, before it starts, they can change the rules, wither for this one convention, or for all conventions going forward. Which of course future rules committees can change again whenever they like, however they like.
And the rule change they have to make, is that delegates are no longer bound to the vote/caucus held in their state, but may vote for any Republican candidate who had more than “N” votes in their caucus.
Or vote for any Republican office holder who offers their name up upon the opening moments of the convention meeting as a whole.
Or vote for anyone from a list drawn up by the rules committee, Or whatever their tiny demented minds do ordain it is so.