Ralph Nader thinks the kids today are too soft & maybe should do some push-ups in the army. pic.twitter.com/q0924ryWrO
— Jeet Heer (@HeerJeet) June 7, 2016
And yet, for some reason, a certain newly-Democratic insurgent totally did not pay attention to Saint Ralph’s most excellent advice…
… Let’s start out with Bernie Sanders. Despite your similarity on issues, he’s running as a Democrat, rather than a third-party candidate, like you did. How do you think that’s influenced the race?
I don’t think it influenced him at all in terms of content. I think the difference is that he’s inside the Democratic Party, playing by the rules — but he’s getting frozen out by the establishment Democrats, which is remarkably similar. The Congressional Black Caucus turned against him; they turned against me. The members of Congress of the Democratic Party overwhelmingly are against him, which is pretty amazing, since he obviously represents a large segment of Democratic voters and independent voters. And it’s not just that. It’s the Democratic National Committee, the way they rig the debates. It was so obvious that they were favoring Hillary Clinton…
So after it’s over I’ll make that point to them — say: “See, you didn’t want to return my calls. You didn’t want me to appear with you. You didn’t want to take any of my advice.”
So you tried to make these points to him?
Oh, yeah. I haven’t had a return call in 15 years, and I’m not the only one. He’s been a lone ranger. And he’s gotten a long way without our advice. People even now can’t get through to his staff. These are people who are on his side, who write articles for Salon and so on. They just can’t get through. There comes a time when you do need to return calls. You may have gone as far as you can on your own…
Now that Sen. Sanders is about to have more time on his hands for promoting his favorite causes in other venues, I think he and Nader could make a killing doing a national tour of Neil Simon’s The Sunshine Boys. It’s a perennial, always popular, a guaranteed seat-filler. And they could get Freddie deBoer to play the hapless nephew!
Baud
Bernie not taking Ralphie’s calls is a sign of hope in my book.
Baud
BTW, that interview is cringeworthy. Even without the 2000 election, I’m glad Nader is no longer associated with us.
rikyrah
Good Morning ?, Everyone ?
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud:
Was he ever associated with the Democrats?
Jeff Spender
It’s getting easier to ignore the Bernie or Busters and talk to the Bernie supporters that are transitioning to Clinton. I’ve been able to openly support her and only be slightly lambasted.
I think this is a good sign. Only three people called me a fake progressive yesterday while demanding of me deference and politeness to soothe their broken egoes.
I eagerly await news of Obama’s meeting with Sanders.
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA: I meant liberals.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
hahahahahhahahahhaaha
He says it so nonchalantly.
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: I’ve never taken his calls. The man is one holier than thou pain in the ass.
Michael Bersin
After December 12, 2000 there was no longer any need for dubya to return saint ralph’s phone calls.
BillinGlendaleCA
I saw this on my facebook feed, Congratulations kid!.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
I don’t. He’s just gonna whine like a spoiled brat about every grievance and resentment. Angry white old man to the bitter end. (photo)
SFAW
For efgoldman and other Boston-area persons of a certain vintage: Mark Parenteau died Friday at MGH, due to “complications from surgery.”
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@BillinGlendaleCA: Woooo Hooooo!
BillinGlendaleCA
I found this in Pasadena last night.
Jeff Spender
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Maybe. But I’ve seen more erstwhile Sanders supporters than I thought moving from him to Clinton.
Even people I know who hate Clinton, aren’t Democrats, and voted for Bernie are admitting he lost fair and square and that it’s over. Maybe they won’t all be voting for Clinton (I don’t think a lot of them voted for a Democrat in their lives for President), but they’re not supporting taking it to the convention.
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA: Woohoo!!!
I have to admit, reading about the nurses union yesterday depressed me because I like nurses. More so than doctors, for sure.
hellslittlestangel
Since 2001, eh? Gee, what could have happened back then?
SFAW
@BillinGlendaleCA:
I remember him complaining about not being included in the 2000 debates, but I don’t recall if it was because the Dems wouldn’t include him, or if it was part of the general election campaign.
Baud
@Jeff Spender: I think most polls I’ve seen bear this out. As often happens, the loudest aren’t necessarily the most representive.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: It’s been a long strange trip for her, one that none of us anticipated when she graduated from high school. I know that one of the nurses union was really pro-Bernie, not sure how many nurse they represent.
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA: Glad to hear it’s only one. I don’t know how they are organized.
Jeff Spender
@Baud: Actually, you know what’s gratifying is that a lot of hidden Clinton supporters are starting to pop up in my feed. Guess they got sick of being silenced.
OzarkHillbilly
@BillinGlendaleCA: Well done!
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
PredictWise (Cavid Rothschild’s academic, peer-reviewed, research into prediction markets)
Clinton 74%
Trump 26%
Chart shows Hillary far ahead of Obama’s 2008 and 2012 pace for June (link)
Jeff Spender
@BillinGlendaleCA: I don’t know the specifics of the picture, but a graduation is hard-fought. So I offer my congratulations and best wishes for her future.
Mustang Bobby
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: That’s better than LBJ/Goldwater in ’64, I think.
Baud
@Jeff Spender: Plus the primary is done. Maybe a lot of them took to heart the advice that there was no reason to engage in a vicious primary battle against people who aren’t the true enemy.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: The nurses effectively ended the Governator’s ability to get anything done. Don’t fuck with nurses.
raven
@BillinGlendaleCA: Great! It’s always a but strange to see the graduation pictures from my California family since we’ve been done almost a month here!
Donut
My wife and I have a running joke with the 10-year-old and seven-year-old in our house (which truthfully they don’t really get) that they don’t know how good they have it with touchscreen devices and a Playstation, since the best tech we had at the same age were the Atari 2600 knock-off that Sears used to sell, and IBM’s original 5150/PC. We crack these jokes more to keep ourselves from feeling like Grandpa Simpson than anything else. I recently tried to facetiously “berate” my youngest that he was lazy because when I was his age we still had to get up and walk over to the TV to change the channel, but he hardly watches TV – it’s all about YouTube now – so that one fell flat.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Jeff Spender: Thanks, I’ll just say it’s about 10 years later than what we had originally thought.
SFAW
@Jeff Spender:
Four! I demand you defer to my superior purity, whilst trying to convince me that Hitlary the Harridan* is worthy of my oh-so-purely-intentioned vote. Or something.
[Note: The preceding political announcement was brought to you on behalf of steamed commenter Reggie Mantle, as he is busy working on finding a different way to say “You all fucking SUCK!”]
*I was going to refer to her as the “Whore of Babylon” (trying to keep up the alliteration thing), but she lives in Upstate NY, not Long Island.
BillinGlendaleCA
@raven: My commencement at UCLA wasn’t until June 18th, it’s probably due to being on the quarter system.
ETA: CSULA is also on the quarter system.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
Less than a week ago right wing talk show clown Hugh Hewitt was on MSNBC promoting Trump. Now he calls him a cancer.
tick…. tock! tick…. tock! tick…. tock!
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
OzarkHillbilly
msdc
@hellslittlestangel: I know, right? The ingrates!
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
Woah! Hillary Clinton chokes-up and fights back tears backstage (video)
Chyron HR
Why don’t those dumb blacks just let Ralph and Bernie tell them what’s best for them?
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
Passing the political baton:
(Photo #1)
(Photo #2)
BillinGlendaleCA
@OzarkHillbilly: They were talking about that on Joe of the Morning, Republican are so puzzled as to why Trump is resonating with Republican voters. Hey Joe, it’s because that’s who they always were; this hasn’t been a mystery to liberals.
Cermet
Unless and until Sanders run as a third party candidate, this comparison is both silly and wrong. Sanders kept Hillary honest and from drifting too far right. Even if he drags this out to the convention, he is no nader. Hillary won and should have the support of all thinking demorats and liberals – period.
HelloRochester
I like tuning in every morning for my dose of Anne Laurie Is A Sore Winner. Talk about shouting at the clouds.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: That was my take as well — it’s to Bernie Sanders’ great credit that he ignores Nader’s advice. Let’s just hope he heeds President Obama’s after their meeting today.
Face
Isnt Bernie up for reelection in 2 years? Im guessing Obama will have a frank discussion on how much support Obama will offer at that time if Sando continues to act like a petulant jackass.
Matt McIrvin
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: According to the polls, Trump actually didn’t have a bad week at all: the “Trump bump” is still trickling into the state-poll aggregates. Though it will be a few days before the general-election polls cover the period after Clinton clinched the nomination.
Baud
@Betty Cracker: Klobacher was on Chris Matthews yesterday and she was extremely positive about Bernie. The “establishment” is doing and saying all the right things so far. I’m a little concerned that DWS will be the hill Bernie wants to die on, however. We’ll see.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: They were really talking up Senators Warren and Kaine as VP’s on Joe of the Morning today.
BillinGlendaleCA
I was actually a bit surprised that we talked very little politics at the meetup last night. Odd for a group of people brought together by a political blog.
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA: Kaine wouldn’t excite anyone, but I’ve liked him every time I’ve seen him on TV.
Bailey
Are the front pagers here all going to take their whining all the way to the convention about Bernie Sanders’ temerity to run an actual campaign this year? How dare someone run to the left of Clinton, garnering near 50% of the vote? Bernie will pivot all his attention to Clinton long before the whiners here all ween themselves from bashing anyone not Clinton. Let’s make sure to throw in some totally non-sensical and inapplicable comparisons to Nader while we’re at it.
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA: People are still disappointed about the Baud! campaign. It’ll take time.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Actually the subject of the Baud! campaign did come up.
Exurban Mom
David Gerrold (wrote “The Trouble with Tribbles” for Star Trek, among other pieces) put Cole’s righteous rant on his Facebook page yesterday…..we may be inundated with Gamergate types today……
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA: In the non-virtual world?! Whoa.
ETA:. I hope it was positive.
debbie
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Where’s the post on this meet-up?
Chyron HR
@Bailey:
So Bernie is the greatest man in history but also nobody must ever talk about him. Got it.
BillinGlendaleCA
I got there early and had some time to take some pics of Pasadena, Pasadena City Hall.
BillinGlendaleCA
@debbie: I posted a 360 degree pic in a comment in the previous thread.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: No worries, we texted each other rather than talk about the Baud!2016! campaign.
raven
@Bailey: Tell us about whining.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
Clinton team trolls Trump, labeling his teleprompter speech, “low energy”.
hahahahhahahahahhaahahahhahahahhahah
They’re gonna push all his buttons until he melts on camera. (clip)
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA: Good. That way the NSA cam preserve it. For history’s sake, of course.
Iowa Old Lady
@BillinGlendaleCA: Congrats to her! A great moment in a parent’s life too.
debbie
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Found it, thanks. That’s some giant bottle of something!
raven
@BillinGlendaleCA: Who belongs to the boonie hat?
Bailey
@Chyron HR:
Reading comprehension here is so distressingly low. Is it too early in the morning for you or something?
Baud
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Heh.
satby
@BillinGlendaleCA: She’s beautiful! Congratulations to the kid, and to her proud mom and dad!
Bailey
@raven:
Yes, yes, again, the temerity to run a campaign in which nearly half the primary voters found appeal. Whining about this is entirely counter-productive.
Loviatar
Two thoughts on the Stanford rape condoning Judge Aaron Persky and his support of rapist Brock Turner.
1) IANAL so I would greatly appreciate if a lawyer would inform me if this scenario is correct. Judge Aaron Persky going forward should have a difficult time presiding over any sexual assault cases. If I am a victim or prosecutor I sure the hell wouldn’t want Judge Aaron Persky as my judge. And if I was in the defense I’d also be leery because I think Judge Aaron Persky on his next few sexual assault cases may over react in the opposite (overly harsh) direction.
Is it plausible going forward that Judge Aaron Persky could be asked to recuse himself from all sexual assault cases?
—-
2) Too me the driving point behind Judge Aaron Persky lenient sentencing was his empathy for the rapist Brock Turner. Judge Aaron Persky like the rapist Brock Turner is a white man who was a Stanford athlete, we maybe can also assume like the rapist Brock Turner he may have over indulged in alcohol once or twice during his college years. This I believe forms the core of the reasoning behind Judge Aaron Persky overly lenient sentencing, he saw the rapist Brock Turner as himself 30 years ago.
Is it possible that there may be more similarities with the rapist Brock Turner in Judge Aaron Persky’s past?
raven
@Bailey:
and
it
is
over
get that?
over
BillinGlendaleCA
@raven: A lurker.
@debbie: Ketchup.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Iowa Old Lady:
@satby: Thanks, we are quite proud of her.
Bailey
@raven:
Yes, you’d think the front pagers would quit whining about it already.
And did you think your bizarre spacing would make your point more profoundly?
Patricia Kayden
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: David Brooks should have said, “Republicans have had a very bad week. Trump’s racism. Trump University. Secretary Clinton’s speech and presumptive nomination”.
Trump is their man. When he goes down, he’s taking them with him.
BillinGlendaleCA
@raven: What? You mean there’s not a 5th down?
Joel
@Mustang Bobby: Those are (wager-extrapolated) probabilities, not margins.
satby
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: And you can glimpse the bullet proof vest under her “expensive” blazer. We demand a lot from these people.
Patricia Kayden
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Trump’s meltdown will probably happen during a debate when his “insults” don’t have their desired impact on Secretary Clinton. Looking forward to him huffing and puffing off the stage when she hits back.
OzarkHillbilly
@BillinGlendaleCA: Only if it’s Mizzou v Colorado.
BillinGlendaleCA
@OzarkHillbilly: I knew someone would remember that.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Patricia Kayden: Maybe he’ll sigh, that did in Al Gore.
Betty Cracker
@BillinGlendaleCA: Excellent! She’s a lovely young woman.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Betty Cracker: Thanks, she’ll be an excellent nurse.
ETA: I was wondering if she’d stick with the blonde hair color for her graduation, or revert back to her natural color.
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA: Maybe Obama can send him a tank to ride in.
Patricia Kayden
I would advise BJ commenters to read the entire article at the link in this post. You’ll see that Nader argues that political correctness and not having “ethnic joke books” explains why White men are supporting Trump. He actually uses the terms “Pollack” and “Negro”. Amazing how tone deaf and privileged he comes off.
Gavin
@Bailey:
Your question at hand isn’t whether to be petulant or not.
It’s whether you want Trump or Hillary picking at least 1 and probably more supreme court justices.
Vote accordingly.
gogol's wife
@Patricia Kayden:
I think I’ll give it a pass! My opinion of Nader can’t go much lower.
OzarkHillbilly
@BillinGlendaleCA: We here living in Misery will never forget.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: After seeing bits from his appearance that will be on Fallon tonight, he just might.
debbie
Listening to Sen. Rob Portman dance his way around objecting to Trump’s racism even as he continues to support his candidacy is more than a little amusing.
Patricia Kayden
@BillinGlendaleCA: Or scream like Dr. Dean. That scream is still used to mock him to this day.
C.S.Strowbridge
This shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone who has been paying attention to Sanders’ career for the past 20 years.
Bailey
@Gavin:
WTF are you even talking about? My voting for a democrat in November has never, ever been in question. I’ve been a democrat far longer than the blog owner and I don’t need any life lessons from anyone.
The question is, will front pagers ever lose their love of whining about another candidate that dared enter a race? And will they cease making baseless and wholly inapplicable comparisons to Ralph Nader, of all people?
PST
@Face:
“Two years gets Sasha through high school. Then Michelle and I are moving to Vermont and one of us is running for the Senate.”
satby
@debbie: my die hard Republican neighbors are depressed about the election. I have to struggle not to gloat.
satby
@PST: Like button please!
C.S.Strowbridge
@Patricia Kayden:
I read that quote elsewhere. Wow. Just … wow. If he had any positive legacy left, he burned it with that interview.
Reggie Mantle
@SFAW:
Even when I’m not here, you’re hearing me in your heads. Excellent.
OzarkHillbilly
@satby: Heh.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
Hillary won 9 of the 10 most populated states, losing only michigan by 1 point.
yay, revolution!
satby
@C.S.Strowbridge: he’s been aligned with the party of racism for the last several years, he burned any positive legacy a decade ago.
satby
@Reggie Mantle: Mocking you in our heads.
debbie
@satby:
My nephew’s graduation party is tonight. It will be filled with well-to-do Goopers, I intend to enjoy the misery to the fullest!
Jack the Second
I’m glad to see that an angry old man who likes to tell other people everything they’re doing wrong has an angrier older man who can tell him everything he’s doing wrong.
satby
@debbie: enjoy a glass of schadenfruede for me too!
Reggie Mantle
@Bailey:
Short answer: no.
It’s become all about the hate for these people.
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
They assume everyone’s as childish and nasty as they are. It’s called projection.
Patricia Kayden
@Jack the Second: To Senator Sanders’ credit, he’s not taking Nader’s calls. I gather that Nader would be encouraging a third party run by Sanders to bring down the “evil” Democrats. **rolls eyes**
Chyron HR
Oh, good, Reggie got over the shock of seeing his God lose and is back to bitch us out for blaspheming against Him.
#Bernie or Bust, amirite Reg?
Bobby Thomson
@Bailey:
Best Freudian slip ever. Legitimate LOL.
The Golux
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Charlize would be stunning in a burlap sack.
J R in WV
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Wow – that’s great! I understand that those differently colored ropes and sashes mean some kind of educational success? I never got that, was lucky to make the Dean’s List occasionally, what with my math-lackability. And beautiful, too, on top of smart and hard0working. Great!
Just think, she could be President, someday…
hueyplong
We have five months to go. Plenty of time both both Trump to flame out and for Sanders supporters to focus on the new choice in front of them.
We could seta pool for each date and get into squabbles about whether each has arrived yet.
amk
Done & dusted. Time to move on, AL?
OzarkHillbilly
From SEK over at LGM:
Dear folks who supported Sanders as much as I did — it’s called a mirror, look in it
Michael Bersin
@Bailey:
“…How dare someone run to the left of Clinton, garnering near 50% of the vote?…”
Ah, math.
If by garnering “near 50%” you mean 43.29% (approximately), yeah. As opposed to maybe 56.71%. Incidentally, that’s a margin near 14%. Apparently that’s the definition of a razor thin margin in American political life these days.
eclare
@PST: Hahaha…
Bobby Thomson
@OzarkHillbilly:
Because Clinton isn’t really a woman unless she’s practically perfect in any way. Which just goes to prove that she is a woman.
Raven
@Bailey: space this , dork
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
I voted for Nader in 2000 in Virginia, not because I was enthusiastic about his statements, but for solidarity with J and because I knew that it wouldn’t really matter that much in our state (W was going to win it).
But anyone thinking that Nader was somehow really a liberal Democrat under the all the shouty rhetoric should have had the scales removed from their eyes after things like this:
It’s all about Heightening the Contradictions™ with him (and those who think like him). It doesn’t matter how many people are hurt or killed in the process.
Purity kills.
Nader’s even more of a cranky, self-marginalizing, old man now. I hope youngsters are paying attention…
Cheers,
Scott.
Patricia Kayden
@OzarkHillbilly: There are tons of stories like that one. Trump has created an atmosphere which has even negatively impacted children.
https://thisiseverydayracism.tumblr.com/post/145494104536/white-michigan-teens-say-blacks-are-going-to-be
Of course, you also have adults echoing Trump.
https://mic.com/articles/145672/this-video-proves-on-the-street-racism-isn-t-as-rare-as-you-think?utm_source=policymicTBLR&utm_medium=main&utm_campaign=social#.jAuv92clS
Reggie Mantle
@Chyron HR:
No, you’re not “rite.” You’re back to lying again, Chyron. Or did you ever leave?
Chyron’s one of those people who can’t address a real argument so he has to make one up and argue with the voice in his head.
Michael Bersin
@C.S.Strowbridge:
The fact that Bernie Sanders did not return saint ralph’s phone call(s) has significantly raised my opinion of Bernie Sanders. If only this fact were more widely known before the California primary….
AxelFoley
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
Remember when Joe and Mika got caught on a hot mic saying to go easy on Trump when they had him on their show? Oh, Joe can’t run away from Trump fast enough now, though!
gvg
@Bailey: 2 points, 1 Bernie hasn’t actually stopped campaigning and he has been attacking the party and Clinton. Until he stops that and stays stopped for awhile, we won’t relax. We have been assured before by people who should know that he was going to stop after he couldn’t win, but he would lash out again after so now we are “show me”. 2. Trump scares us. Actually all the GOP candidates were disasters. The fact that every one of them was a mean nutball shows a lot about that party right now. Nader and the Bush election are why we are so afraid of Sanders not stopping. People who are afraid lash out with anger, so we are mad at Bernie and the loudmouth brat contingent who are saying things that might make him keep trying. They aren’t the majority of his voters but they are loud and that makes them seem more important. Bernie might think they are the majority.
He ran a campaign. People were fine with that part. It’s when he started attacking the reputation of the democratic party and Hillary with lies and paranoia instead of seeing that well not everyone agreed he was the best choice and that doesn’t make us bad guys that we started getting upset with him. You see he was insulting us. Not just Hillary. While expecting us to vote for him. And his attacks will make GOP soundbite attack adds for the general and we know that most people don’t pay enough attention so they can be fooled. Did I mention we fear Trump? this blog is full of nervous people talking about what they are worried about. That is why Sanders is going to get brought up and attacked every day until he has shown he has accepted the loss and turned toward defeating Trump with the biggest margin possible. Because there have been at least 2 times before that he indicated he got it, but then he showed he didn’t, its going to take awhile even after he says he concedes.
father pussbucket
If Nader ever gets a lawn, you’d better stay off it.
Gin & Tonic
@Raven: I seldom laugh out loud (literally) at blog comments, but you got me here. The blank space before the comma was the absolute perfect touch.
SFAW
@Bailey:
… wrote the person who exemplifies that “skill.”
“Are the front pagers here all going to take their whining all the way to the convention about Bernie Sanders’ temerity to run an actual campaign this year?”
You see what you want to see, quelle surprise.
Michael Bersin
@PST:
“Two years gets Sasha through high school. Then Michelle and I are moving to Vermont and one of us is running for the Senate.”
You win the internets this morning.
Bobby Thomson
@Michael Bersin: In fairness, that was known when Sanders got into the race. Nader wanted him to go third party. Sanders didn’t. At the time, I thought that was because he had the nation’s best interests at heart. Now I realize he was just thinking like Willie Sutton.
EZSmirkzz
Yawn
Emma
@Jack the Second: It’s angry old men all the way down!
Michael Bersin
@Bobby Thomson:
“…Now I realize he was just thinking like Willie Sutton.”
A lot of people were. Those media buy commissions funded by all those $27 contributors really add up.
Betty Cracker
The primary is over. Time to move on. The thing I’m looking forward to the most: President Obama trolling the fuck out of Donald Trump from now to November. It’ll be a thing of beauty.
Central Planning
Dateline – Rochester, June 9 – Temperature was 45 degrees this morning. My wife turned the heat on. Thanks, Obama.
satby
@Reggie Mantle: Here’s a thought: go read something somewhere else. No one’s holding you prisoner here. Take Bailey with you since you’re both unhappy with the subject offered here. The rest of us will talk about the topic if we want, or something else.
J R in WV
@:
@Reggie Mantle:
So…
You came here this morning just to blast the people who run this blog for their attitudes about the candidates ! Really !
What a waste of your precious time and energy, to spend time at a blog like this one, with dedicated people studying the news and blogosphere in order to post interesting, cogent and current issues for people to discuss!!!
May I be the first person to suggest you leave this place, never to darken its pristine off-white pages with your painfully typed screeds?
Thanks!
JPL
@PST: That would be awesome!
SFAW
@Reggie Mantle:
No, the voices in my head don’t mention you at all.
But if it’s what you need to hear in order to give some semblance of meaning to your ridiculousness, then, fine. OK, here it comes, you ready? “You’re in my head!” I hope this has prevented you from killing yourself.
But thanks for the comic relief, child.
Patricia Kayden
@Betty Cracker: Biden will be fun to watch too — especially since he has no reasons to hold back and is known not to bite his tongue. We all remember the smackdown he delivered on Paul Ryan during their VP debate in 2012. It was a beautiful thing.
Bill Maher’s tweet was hilarious.
https://twitter.com/billmaher/status/256568696212967424
Gin & Tonic
@J R in WV:
Unfortunately, you weren’t.
Technocrat
@Patricia Kayden:
He’s an asshole, but he’s not wrong. A couple of months ago, one of the ultraconservative engineers I work with made a joke about “How chinese people name their kids” (drop change on the floor, ping ping…get it??). The silence in the room was extraordinary. Awkward doesn’t begin to describe it. The guys face got redder and redder. He was silent for the rest of the meeting, and sulky for the rest of the day.
I’m a jokester, so I know what it’s like to deliver a lead balloon. But i suspect it wasn’t about a failed joke, rather the implied rebuke that pissed him off. The most salient characteristic of the hard right – from anecdotal evidence – is their belief that their opinions are objective truth, and that they are above correction. Indeed, the act of correcting them is an attack, from their POV.
Liberals roll our eyes at extremes of political correctness, but we don’t see it as an existential assault.
SFAW
@satby:
Why are you being so mean to those two committed, dyed-in-the-wool “Democrats”? They only have the best interests of the Democrat Party and the nation in mind.
ETA: And that goes double — no, make it a triple — for YOU, J R in WV. How can you be so mean?
J R in WV
@Bailey:
So…
You came here this morning just to blast the people who run this blog for their attitudes about the candidates ! Really !
What a waste of your precious time and energy, to spend time at a blog like this one, with dedicated people studying the news and blogosphere in order to post interesting, cogent and current issues for people to discuss!!!
May I be the first person to suggest you leave this place, never to darken its pristine off-white pages with your painfully typed screeds?
Thanks!
MomSense
I really can’t stand Nader and it predates 2000 by decades. He created organizations that do great work on behalf of the public but the organizers who do this work are exploited. They do not earn enough money to live on and are expected to work ridiculous hours. They are taken advantage of because of their idealism and commitment to work for the public interest. US PIRG recently came out against Obama’s overtime rules for people earning less than $47,476.
Several years ago I heard a talk on NPR that Nader was giving where he advised communities to come up with $30,000 and hire a couple of organizers to work with them and I wanted to punch him in the face.
Some progressive ally he is.
srv
Jeffrey Sachs asks how many cabinet positions will Clinton give Bernie?
The Queen must come to the High Sparrow.
JPL
@Patricia Kayden: That was funny. Yesterday he posted this Putting #DonaldTrump in charge of the national security state is like giving a toddler a Glock. Oh wait, we do that.
Jack the Second
@Technocrat: That’s the old joke about the party of personal responsibility — “How dare those liberals make me feel like a racist/misogynist/homophobe!”.
BillinGlendaleCA
@J R in WV: She’s graduating Magna Cume Laude, the other stuff is for being a veteran(I’m guessing the red/white/blue cord) and veteran’s honor.
Michael Bersin
@Betty Cracker:
“The primary is over…”
Well, sort of. The Missouri Democratic Party state convention will be in Sedalia on Saturday, June 18th. While the allocation of delegates won’t change (that was determined by the March primary – 36 for Hillary, 35 for Bernie) the county level Hillary and Bernie delegates will vote as a whole for Electors, Missouri’s members of the DNC, and any resolutions brought before the convention. The Hillary and Bernie delegates will vote separately for individuals to fill the already allocated at large national delegate and alternate slots.
I have encountered Bernie county level delegates who have stated that they will not ever vote for Hillary. Consider what could happen if one of them becomes an Elector (possible, but remote) and Hillary carries the state. The convention nominating committee for Electors is split evenly among Hillary and Bernie delegates. You better believe people are gonna be asking those nominated if they’re dead enders.
I’m a county level delegate (as is my spouse). I’ll also be covering the convention as media for Show Me Progress (which I did in 2008 and 2012).
Patricia Kayden
@Technocrat: I’ll admit that as someone of Jamaican descent, I have zero problems telling or listening to other Jamaican people telling jokes about our culture. I don’t see the appeal, however, in telling jokes about other people’s ethnicities/race.
It’s sad that anyone would pine for “ethnic jokes” which demean and dehumanize others — especially those in already oppressed minority groups. And I’m shocked that a “Progressive” like Nader would pine for those days.
Xboxershorts
Someone threw up a petition on a prominent musicians FB page that I am friends with who was also a major Bernie supporter. It’s a draft Bernie for an Indy run petition. I was pretty adamant that I would definitely NOT be signing it. Next thing you know, about 20 other people “liked” my comment. Including the musician friend and fellow Bernie supporter.
People are coming around.
I chased down the registrant of that Draft Bernie for Indy Run website, just to see if maybe it was a poison well type thing, you know, a conservative plot. . It was not, my research into the registration of the various web sites associated with the petition drew me to a committed socialist out of Seattle.
Reggie Mantle
@Betty Cracker:
And yet, the Bernie Bashing threads keep coming. And so do I.
different-church-lady
@Jeff Spender:
Or maybe they felt like they could now be heard without the necessity to scream louder than other screaming people.
OzarkHillbilly
@BillinGlendaleCA: Impressive.
J R in WV
@Gin & Tonic:
Just being polite to the other posters this am. You know me. Always polite. Mostly.
different-church-lady
@Reggie Mantle:
And that’s the one place I can’t criticize you: Anne Laurie baits people and you take the bait. Nobody can reasonably ding you for playing your role in the dynamic she creates.
ETA: Although, when you think about it, this thread’s a lot more about Nader than Sanders…
Baud
@Michael Bersin: If Clinton carries Missouri, then it’ll be such a blowout that a couple of dead-ender electors won’t matter. But Jesus that’s scary.
SFAW
@srv:
I expect it’s due either to my subpar education, or because I’m an old fart and am not “hep” to all the expressions you young hipsters use, but: “High Sparrow”? What’s that?
different-church-lady
@Donut: I took revenge on my children by not having any.
srv
Nate Cohn at the liberal NYT can’t find all those racists:
Do not let data get in the way of your bigotries.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: I’m also wondering if Missouri has a faithless elector law, some states do(though I doubt they’d pass Constitutional muster).
MomSense
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Congratulations to kid and to your whole family!
srv
@SFAW: http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/High_Sparrow
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA: Probably doesn’t.
SFAW
@BillinGlendaleCA:
That is outstanding! Congratulations to you and her!
OzarkHillbilly
@SFAW: Game of Thrones, the leader of the official church.
different-church-lady
@srv: Sooooo…. white voters who went for Obama are now going to go for Trump?
I believe this would be a place where we’d have that meme of a grinning Gene Wilder as Willie Wonka, saying, “Explain to me again how…”
Baud
@different-church-lady: You monster!
OzarkHillbilly
Heh. gop.com has no mention of Trump. Hillary? Yes. Bernie? Yes. GHWB? Yes. Reagan? Yes. Trump?
No.
different-church-lady
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Wow, the body language in that shot… Adrian Lyne would kill to get a performance like that.
SFAW
@srv:
Thanks. I have watched GoT a total of zero minutes, so I can chalk this one up to being an old fart. (However, I did read the first half or two-thirds of the first book; decided that watching the weeds grow was a better use of my time.)
Of course, that still leaves my sub-par edumacation, but I’m sure that will help me not get a bunch of other references.
different-church-lady
@Baud: You know what’s funny? About 10 years ago some people would have said that without tongue in cheek. But as far as I can tell there’s been a marked reduction in the hostilities towards the child-free by choice.
Miss Bianca
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: He looks like he’s doing the Senor Wenslas thing in that photo…
Reggie Mantle
@different-church-lady:
Not just Anne Laurie, but I get your meaning.
But hey, when people engage in day after day of hippie punching, don’t be surprised and get all indignant when some of them punch back.
Michael Bersin
@Baud:
Consider the Elector selection process across all of the states and the importance of due diligence. If memory serves me correctly in 1968 a Nixon Elector (North Carolina) voted for George Wallace.
In Missouri Electors who are nominated and approved at the state convention tend to be individuals with a long history of service to the party and its candidates. They tend to not be individuals intent on blowing up the party or country.
I’m looking forward to the state convention. It’ll be interesting to observe what transpires.
SFAW
@different-church-lady:
I hope they learned their lesson!
different-church-lady
@HelloRochester:
I confess guilt about the naughty thrill I get from it.
SFAW
@Reggie Mantle:
Whatever you need to tell yourself to keep you from examining your own behavior, I guess. (Just kidding — we both know how pure your motives are, and introspection is for chumps, right?)
Bailey
@Michael Bersin:
Ah, math. A consistent vote of 43.29% of primary voters who preferred another candidate seems statistically relevant, no? Or perhaps you think it wise to continue trashing the candidate whom those voters are preferred because their votes in November won’t be necessary?
Betty Cracker
@Reggie Mantle: And we appreciate your participation in Cole’s neo-liberal click-bait scheme! Your frequent visits will fund the distribution of many tons of Hillary swag and help stamp out people-driven revolutions worldwide!
different-church-lady
@Reggie Mantle: You know, when you walk into a room six times a day, get in someone’s face and say, “You’re going to punch me. I can tell you want to punch me by the look on your face. Why do you want to punch me?” eventually someone’s going to want to punch you even if they didn’t start off that way.
Miss Bianca
@Baud:
OK, that…is a weird image. Not quite brain-bleach-worthy, but…weird.
OzarkHillbilly
@Michael Bersin:
It being the great state of Misery, will it matter? :-( (i have hopes that someday, someway….)
Bailey
@J R in WV:
Actually I came here, as I always have done for the past decade or so, to hopefully find something insightful written. It certainly didn’t happen today.
Thank you for your concern about my energy levels. So appreciated!
I’m sorry, what is your role here? Just guy-who-types-in-comments-section? I think I’ll not give your authority much consideration.
Thanks!
rikyrah
What Binds Ryan’s Post-Truth Agenda to Trump’s Post-Policy Politics: Racism
by Nancy LeTourneau June 9, 2016 12:18 PM
Personally, I’ve never found the dichotomy of establishment vs insurgency to be a very helpful way of understanding what is going on in the Republican Party right now. Another way of looking at the tension is to frame it as a difference between being post-truth and post-policy. Prior to 2008, David Roberts described the post-truth nature of the GOP.
While they worked to reduce taxes on the wealthy, get rid of government regulations and “drown government in the bathtub (all of which benefit the top 1%), they had to convince everyday Americans that their policies would actually help them.
After the Bush/Cheney era and the Great Recession, being post-truth didn’t work very well anymore. Most Americans saw very clearly what happened when the Republican agenda was enacted. Rather than re-think that agenda, they simply went post-policy and obstructed anything President Obama and the Democrats tried to do. In order to rally their ground troops in support, Republican fanned the flames of racism, fear and anger. As I’ve written before, Donald Trump is the epitome of post-policy nihilism.
………………………………………
So, if Donald Trump is post-policy and Paul Ryan is post-truth, where do their agendas come together. Jonathan Chait gave us the answer.
In other words, just as racism has been the fuel that ignites the post-policy positioning of Republicans over the last few years, it has been exploited for decades as a way to divide and conquer support for the progressive agenda.
Bailey
@satby:
Yes, groupthink at its best. None of us will ever disagree, ever, ever, ever. We will all have the same opinions, always, always, always. Don’t disrupt our slavish devotion to whatever appears on the front page, no matter how insipid and off-target it is.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@Bailey: This is for you.
different-church-lady
@Bailey:
Your resolute dedication to being disappointed is a light that shines upon us all.
Mike R
@Reggie Mantle: You call what you do punching, very interesting.
Tripod
What struck me about Bernie’s Cali speech was the cheering for the President. The ute vote isn’t his to give, and Obama is going to drink his milkshake. I hope he has realistic expectations going in, and doesn’t dig in his heels and end up with nothing.
Miss Bianca
@Michael Bersin: @PST: Hell, if that happened, *I’d* move to Vermont.
Bailey
@Raven:
You took a break from recess to spit that out? Try again.
sherparick
@Michael Bersin: Yep, I agree. Further, Clinton got 56% of the vote, which is suppose to mean you win elections in a Democracy and the losers accept the outcome.
We don’t have a parliamentary system (and believe me, in practice, the parliamentary coalition Governments of the left often produce PMs like Tony Blair and Gerhard Schroeder worse. So count your blessings with a left of Center New Democrat like Hillary).
Ralph’s estrangement from the Democrats and liberals goes back to 1977. After Carter’s election, former Naderites filled administrative positions in EPA and Department of Transportation. But instead of remaining “advocates” they became administrators and had to work out actual compromises to implement goals such as safety standards and fuel economy in say Jill Claybrook’s DOT. Ralph became very unhappy that these people did not do a he ordered them to do as fast he thought they should do it and promptly started calling them sell outs. Reagan won in 1980 so the Democrats were properly punished in Ralph’s eyes, even though policies were reversed or stalled over the next 12 years and we got James Watt at Interior and Ann Gorsuch at EPA. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reagan_administration_scandals#EPA_scandals
So, as esteemed web host J.C. states, Bernie Bros, Fred DeBoer, and Ralph should all GFT or alternatively, take long walks off very short piers.
Bailey
@different-church-lady:
Is your life so absolutely without it’s joys that this is the comfort it takes? Well, okay. Seems sad to announce it like that, but I’m here for you if you need to talk.
singfoom
Cmon stop feeding the troll, its been proven over multiple days hes just stirring shit. No interest in dialogue just bitching. A wall would be a better partner in conversation.
Bobby Thomson
@Reggie Mantle: TMI, dude. Keep your kinks to yourself.
And fuck the fucking Yankees.
Miss Bianca
@srv: Jeffrey Sachs can STFU forever, as far as i’m concerned.
different-church-lady
@Bailey:
No. I also have a quart of ice cream.
different-church-lady
@singfoom:
Which one?
Miss Bianca
@Reggie Mantle:
We really *didn’t* need to be informed that you jerk off to BJ.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Bailey:
Ah yes, internet contrarianism at its best.
SFAW
@Bailey:
Ah yes, the old “if my being an annoying asshole annoys you, then it must be because you’re a drone, or part of the hive mind, or groupthink” gambit.
Consider us all severely chastised, and we have all now seen the error of our groupthink-y ways.
Wait a second — if we all repent, does that mean it’s a groupthink thing (i.e., that we repent)? Norman, coordinate!
srv
The older a bleg gets, the more hall monitors it has.
The surge has failed:
gogol's wife
The troll-feeding this morning is out of con-troll.
But I guess I should know better than to read any thread that mentions Sanders. It’s just hard to find one that doesn’t.
scav
There’s a certain dreary bed-ock casting-call familiarity to the breed. They are (or claim to be) incensed that the world isn’t delivered to them, with applause at the excellence of their choice, in the manner they find most acceptable at that particular instant. Thread topics are either too cold or too hot: “well I can see the front-pagers are again deliberately ignoring the most critical issues of the day by foppishly indulging in a first-world food post.” to “always the front pagers be going on about politics” and then pulling out the mad typing skilz by replying to all the contents possible with a limited number of boilerplate cleverness “again with the personal attacks”, claims of superior length and quality of being a lurker democrat often lubricated by a wide-fluttering eyelash ingenue stunned but hurt tone — the he-man steel-eatng vulgarity can however be suddenly engaged with no apparently stripping of the mental gears. O! Goldilocks Goldilocks! Seeker of spotlights Where ist thy stage? Why all the world is a stage!
SFAW
@different-church-lady:
What flavor? (Just trying to see if I need to make a trip over to your place.)
Miss Bianca
@srv: Is it a coincidence that that character looks so much like Bernie Sanders? Maybe that’s why the little birdie landed on his podium? The things one misses by being so far behind the pop culture curve!
scav
@SFAW: Flavors matter? Well, I guess they might influence the speed of the trip . . . .
different-church-lady
@SFAW:
I only have a quart, not enough to share.
SFAW
@different-church-lady:
Like a stream of bat’s piss?
Bailey
@SFAW: @SFAW:
Considering the multiple members who all decided to pounce at once to posts not directed at them, I’d say there’s a fair amount of group-think at work here, yes. Or even the idea that a different opinion constitutes being “an annoying asshole.”
And perhaps if you had bothered to even read the post I was responding to which very much indicated a hive-mind “rest of us” quotient to us, you’d better understand my response. Or not.
SFAW
@scav:
Troll. Of COURSE they matter.
@different-church-lady:
Oh, don’t worry, I’ll let you have some. I’m self-sacrificing like that.
Bailey
@gogol’s wife:
Particularly when the front-pagers can’t find anything else to talk about…which was pretty much my point.
hovercraft
I got this from GOS the link to the facebook post is not working for me so here’s the GOS link.
SFAW
@Bailey:
I’ve read your posts. They’re not quite as highbrow as you seem to believe they are.
Nice deflection, however.
Bailey
@different-church-lady:
You braggart. Clearly your life is set. So what are you complaining about again?
Reggie Mantle
@different-church-lady:
Oh, bullshit. Hippie punching was in full swing when I got here.
different-church-lady
@Bailey:
Consider a hypothetical film in which there are dozens of Groucho Marx, and you are the sole Margaret Dumont…
Bailey
@SFAW:
Where did I claim highbrow?
Strawman argue much?
Bailey
@different-church-lady:
Jesus. I think I’ll not consider any situation in which you construe a parallel of BJ posters to the genius of the Marx Brothers. I’ve heard of over-estimating yourself before, but that’s ridiculous.
Reggie Mantle
Oh, bullshit. Hippie punching was in full swing when I got here.
Gin & Tonic
@different-church-lady: Is there a generally accepted convention for pluralizing “Marx”? Would it be “Marx’s” or “Marxes”?
different-church-lady
@Bailey: Oh, where do you usually go?
hovercraft
The healing is beginning, see here we have a nice antidote to Susan Sarandon
That’s called being a grown up.
Miss Bianca
@Bailey: Awesome! You just bleated your own version of “Ohhhh, Mr. Driftwoood!”
Michael Bersin
@Bailey:
If you define “trashing a candidate” as pointing out the reality of 50% plus 1, yes, I’ll continue.
Miss Bianca
@hovercraft: WOW. yeah. thanks for sharing that.
Michael Bersin
@OzarkHillbilly:
Jason Kander (D).
jonas
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: @srv:
So…a lot of white voters pulled the lever for Obama over Romney in 2012, but those folks are now likely Trump voters? If you voted for Obama, the chances that you’re now enthusiastic about Trump is slim to nil. Trump’s floor is 27% — he’s got the crazification voters locked up. Another 20% would vote for Hitler over Hillary, so he’s got them, too. I think his ceiling is 47% and he’s not likely to flip any of the swing states that Obama carried.
Bailey
@Michael Bersin:
No, I consider “trashing a candidate” what the front pager did. I simply pointed out that a very, very large number of democratic votes HRC is relying on cast their ballot for him and the trashing is old news and probably should be moved on from.
muddy
@Bailey: No, no they’re almost out of time! Got to get some last licks in quick before the whistle is blown!
chopper
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
you buttered your bread, hugh, now sleep on it.
agrippa
@Bailey:
I, for one, am glad that he ran.
He had a good run ad made his point.. he got a little cranky; but no one is perfect.
catclub
@jonas:
And yet, on NPR this morning they were doing interviews in a Union hall in Ohio where people were saying exactly this.
I wish they would ask those people who they think Sanders will vote for in the fall – since Sanders has stated repeatedly that defeating Trump is still job 1.
germy
Robert Reich: “A public note to my friend, Bernie Sanders”
http://robertreich.org/post/145616017895
Bailey
@Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap:
Please get to the point of understanding that people who think front pagers should move on from Sanders / voters punching does not mean they don’t understand how the freaking Supreme Court works.
Bailey
@agrippa:
Thank you. And agreed.
catclub
@sherparick:
I am surprised that very few people are pointing out that Clinton won California over Obama in 2008 IIRC .
satby
So, since it’s an open thread let’s move on.
I have a disabled sister with a special needs trust and my other sister acting as the executor of my late mother’s estate got some seriously odd information from an attorney she consulted about how to handle the IRA we all are beneficiaries of as regards that trust. Any of our commentators have recommendations for a lawyer in Illinois who is conversant in this subject?
The lawyer my sister talked to stated that even if disabled sister disclaimed the inheritance, the IRA trustee would probably still send it to her as a “gift” and she could lose her Medicaid and SSDI. I never heard anything so goofy.
hovercraft
This is interesting.
El Caganer
@srv: I don’t know what the rates are, but PICC here in Philadelphia is looking for volunteers to go up to the US Citizenship and Immigration Center to help new citizens register to vote as soon as they’re sworn in. Will be spending a couple of mornings up there this month – better than spending my time looking at pictures of cute baby animals on the internet.
catclub
@Jack the Second: I was impressed by how much Ralph made that interview about himself.
He was asked how Sanders changed the race and answered on how he was important.
Betty Cracker
For the record, there were 16 posts published on this blog in the last 24 hours. Of that, two (including this one) could be fairly described as “Bernie bashing” posts — maybe three if you stretch the definition quite a bit. Three other posts were explicitly conciliatory pleas for kumbayah between Sanders and Clinton supporters. The rest were about soccer, basketball, neo-Nazi assholes, senate machinations, healthcare, meetups, etc. Not bad for the day after a fairly acrimonious primary concluded, IMO.
Gin & Tonic
@Betty Cracker: Jeez, Betty, what’s with all the “facts” and shit?
srv
@catclub: Discouraged workers who wouldn’t vote for a Mormon can be the new Reagan Democrat.
chopper
@Reggie Mantle:
you mention chyron by name every single day. he really got in your head. excellent.
satby
@Betty Cracker: I thought this one was about Nader really.
Gelfling545
I met Nader some 30 years ago. Had lunch with him & a few committee members when he was here to speak. He struck me as pretty impressed with his own importance then. Apparently he has continued to cultivate that aspect of his personality.
SFAW
@Bailey:
Where did I say you “claimed” that? But your comments betray your apparent belief in your superiority — intellectual and otherwise — to the rest of us drones.
Reading comprehension — learn it, love it, live it
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
Amazing diary at the GOS:
Trump’s reliance on free media and call-ins to Fox is going to have serious downticket ripples.
Campaigns are complicated beasts regardless of parties, and there are necessary linkages between the top of the ticket and the bottom – Trump’s narcissism, laziness and cash flow issues related to him just being a con man are going to wreak havoc on the GOP side of the divide. The organizational guys are undoubtedly yanking out clumps of hair, and I’m reasonably sure that their colleagues on Team D are calling and chuckling at the ones they know.
hovercraft
@Betty Cracker:
The posts have not been bashers. Some die hard “it was stolen from us , you are sellouts” trolls have come into threads and tossed out grenades, and have then rightly been pummeled. Don’t come in to lay a turd and think you’ll get away with it.
Shell
Who called/asked for the meeting? Was it Obama or Sanders?
Kay
We got a local 2016 organizer yesterday. I didn’t meet w/her so I don’t know if she’s “Clinton campaign” or national Democrats- I think there are rules about spending funds raised for the primary vs funds raised for the general so maybe it’s a “bridge” situation. Anyway, doesn’t matter, I’m glad they have organizers headed out this far.
SFAW
Site issue/question: am I the only one whose page resets to the top almost every time a new top-of-page ad starts its cycle? It gets annoying when I can’t finish reading the latest gem from some of the commenters here, and have to scroll (or jump) down to find it again.
muddy
@Betty Cracker: Balance and asking for good thoughts going forward on the front page, yes. Comments another matter entirely.
I want Hillary for president but the level of viciousness from her supporters on this blog has been pretty gobsmacking to me. I’ve been really disappointed by a lot of people that I previously thought were better than that. Well-intentioned people can disagree, we are not Republicans here to walk in lockstep.
hovercraft
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class:
Steve Benen also has a great take on this. The ripple effects are going to be interesting to watch.
Bailey
@Betty Cracker:
Why are there any? You know, from the “winners?”
catclub
@satby:
I am no expert, but I would guess the lawyer is basically correct. If she gets a lot of money, it will disqualify her from Medicaid and SSDI.
Those programs demand the elderly spend themselves down to virtually zero before they are eligible. Because, surprise, surprise, those are programs for people with no money.
bemused
@rikyrah:
Good piece. LeTourneau is one of my favorite political writers. I don’t see a difference between conservatives who are actively racist or those who deliberately exploit racism to get what they want. They are equally culpable, imo. That goes for Republican voters who refuse to see or hear it.
Shell
@Central Planning: Last week I had the AC on. Last night I was pulling out my flannel bathrobe again. This Spring has been very bouncy-bouncy.
catclub
@Shell: I heard it was Sanders, in their recently reported long phone call.
Betty Cracker
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: Remember the WV primary, where Trump had already won and told rally attendees not to bother with the primary and to “save their vote” for the general election, apparently forgetting that there were down-ticket races happening? If Rinses Repeatus were good at his job, he’d have commissioned a hit squad that very fucking day.
Bailey
@SFAW:
Seriously? Perhaps it was from this line of yours:
If you’re going to try to insult me, try to at least keep up with yourself. I’ve not “believed” anything highbrow about any of my posts. Your projection is your own.
SFAW
@Bailey:
Fair enough.
negative 1
@Betty Cracker: Maybe but one of those two was a post from the blog ‘owner’ or ‘manager’ (whatever you prefer) bashing not the candidate but his supporters.
@Kay: I haven’t gotten a thing in my state, and the operations of the state-level elections are all but non-existent. It’s concerning to me, actually, I’m hoping that means there will be no real challenge this year, which would be great, because our democratic (in name only) governor’s popularity is plummeting by almost any metric.
raven
@Bailey: Get your own fucking blog if you don’t like it.
Iowa Old Lady
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: His ignorance of how a political campaign works hurts too, and I suspect that’s invincible ignorance because he’s to ignorant to know he doesn’t know.
@SFAW: That’s not happening to me.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@satby:
Oh damn – that may be correct. It all depends on how your mom’s will was set up and how the beneficiary designation on the IRA was handled.
What you may need to do is have the special needs trustee AND guardian file a “friendly” pleading asking that they be given clearance from the probate court to disclaim the gift, explaining why. Most probate judges will play ball on that sort of thing. I’d even ask that your sister under the disability be appointed a guardian ad litem to act on her behalf.
It is no guarantee, but could work.
Kay
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class:
I hope so. I was smiling when they kept saying Tuesday night “there is no ‘Trump campaign’ – OTOH I was looking forward to meeting the Trumpster organizer- I imagine him or her as looking like Donald and saying “winning” all the time and being just generally insufferable.
chopper
“seriously, the primary’s over. quit talking shit about sanders and join me in continuing to talk shit about clinton for the next 8 years”
hovercraft
@muddy:
While I can’t speak for everyone obviously, many of the more nasty comments are in response to dumd stuff like this:
Now if point and laugh at these people I think we are justified.
scav
@Betty Cracker: It’s not even really about the topics of the blogposts, it’s often not even really about the topic of superficial dispute. it’s mostly about controlling the conversation and the spotlight. There’s no pleasing some Goldilocks.
bemused
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Morning Joe crew can’t possibly be this clueless, can they? Denial?
satby
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: not to go too deep into it, but my mom set up a trust for all assets but the IRA and then a codicil in her will that all inheritance for my sister go to her special needs trust.
Know lawyers in Chicago who handle this kind of stuff?
hovercraft
@Shell:
Sanders requested it.
Betty Cracker
@Bailey: That’s where the “acrimonious primary” part comes in: emotions run high, and people want to vent. Where better than a blog? I don’t worry about it too much. I think Sanders and Clinton will start working together within a week and all the sturm und drang will then be forgotten except by the champion grudge holders. I encountered one of that species here yesterday who is still in keening butthurt mode over Clinton’s 2008 campaign. People are weird.
scav
@SFAW: mmmmm, I’m imaging the utter silence from the “winners” that would have ensued had CA had gone the other way.
The Thin Black Duke
Gee, I wonder why women are scared to express an opinion, huh?
Maybe those guys who called Barbara Boxer a “bitch” can explain it to us.
SFAW
@Bailey:
Yah, funny thing about reading comprehension, you should try it sometime. I wrote
which, amazingly enough, does not say you claimed they were highbrow. People — you included — interpret comments, and try to assess the intent or the sentiment of the writer. Were you intellectually honest about this particular pas de deux, you would have said “you’re misreading me” (or something similar) the first time, instead of making up some BS about me claiming something which I hadn’t. Had you done so, I might even have engaged in a quasi-rational discussion about it with you. (Probably not — why would I suddenly stop being an asshole?)
Kay
@negative 1:
The person I spoke to this morning said the organizer is from Kentucky and came by way of working in Iowa on what I imagine was Clinton’s campaign there.
It depends on the state I would think, the estimate of where they should put money. what we do here is use locally-raised funds and rent a h’quarters. A storefront. It’s cheap here- just a room and an internet connection. We had a well-off Democrat who loves Obama so he paid for the whole thing in 08 and 12.
If you build it they will come :)
Eric U.
@satby: if she has a special needs trust, you need to talk to those people, ASAP. I think SSDI is not constantly reevaluated like medicaid is. I don’t see why this IRA can’t be converted to cash and then put in the special needs trust. My brother’s medicaid is evaluated every year in October, if he had extra money for part of a month any other time then they wouldn’t need to know about it. Yes, your tax bill might be adversely affected by this. For my part, I figure it’s the price I have to pay.
It really pisses me off there are so many attorneys that don’t know about special needs trusts, even those that supposedly know about estates. There are just a few in each state that handle disability law. They must be really annoyed about it most of the time. Special needs trusts have been in place since the Reagan years.
Bailey
@raven:
You seem really charming and delightful at parties. Did I miss the part where this was your fucking blog to order people around on?
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@satby:
No, I have no Chicago connects. My usual advice is to find a middling sized group (say 10 lawyers) that claims to do the following categories: estate, business, family. If they claim to do everything, they’re a law funnel taking everything for revenue and won’t have the direct expertise you need.
El Caganer
@chopper: I AM TROLL – HEAR ME WHINE!
Captain C
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
I suspect that most people into Heightening the Contradictions™ figure that the Contradictions will be Heightened on someone else, not them. Furthermore, they think those people who suffer will now be happy to support True Revolutionaries™ who stood aside, let them suffer, and even chortled about it.
Betty Cracker
@The Thin Black Duke: Can you tell me where that quote came from? I’ve been mulling over a similar topic for a post. TIA!
SFAW
@scav:
And if they had, they would get trashed. But pre-emptive strikes are not always required.
Chris
Off topic: Cracked.com has an article today called “6 objective reasons Ronald Reagan was our worst president.” (I’m not sure I’d agree with that, but only because Andrew Jackson is there too). http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-objective-reasons-ronald-reagan-was-our-worst-president/
I can only applaud and encourage more of the same from as many websites as possible. The aura of sainthood around that guy needs to die.
negative 1
@Kay: It’s like a sign of spring, or in this case every 4th fall :-). Have you seen any state-level operations start, though — so and so for state senate or things like that? We’ve fielded plenty of the fundraising event requests and the PAC has written checks, but no signs yet or stickers or requests for phone banking volunteers etc.
muddy
@Bailey: Now this is just something to chuckle about, not get annoyed for. Raven enjoys saying this, and I always smile due to the number of times that he has complained that people are not commenting about what *he* likes.
In fact he will even pre-emptively complain that people who don’t like sports should shut up, even though he is the first one to say anything and no one has dissed sports or the sports post at all. I love me some Raven and appreciate this game in the proper spirit I hope.
ETA: talk about your “pre-emptive”, SFAW! ;-)
hovercraft
@The Thin Black Duke:
Yelling bitch may make them feel better, but actually voting is more potent.
Jerzy Russian
@SFAW:
That happened to me last night. There was this ad with a video that would not stop playing. I cleared the history in the browser (Safari), and it seems fine this morning.
srv
ruh-roh, even the Charles Pierces of the Left at Esquire find reality:
They’re taking their jerbs.
weaselone
*sighs* Seriously. I was fed up with the whining of the Bernie Bros 2 months ago. The whining about Bernie Bros whining is another level of tediousness altogether.
And now I’m whining about people whining about Bernie Bros whining.
The Thin Black Duke
@Captain C: Remember that scene from Ralph Bakshi’s Fritz the Cat where Fritz starts a riot in Harlem, and when things spiral out of control he hauls ass out of there? And as Fritz exits stage right, he cries, “We shall overcome!” That was way back in 1972, but as we’re painfully aware of, some things never change.
raven
@muddy: Ah shucks, fuck you both!
Luthe
Valued commenters, I have a dilemma. The Hillary campaign has offered me a Summer Fellowship slot (yay!). However, AFAIK, they don’t pay (boo). I am EXTREMELY broke, so paid employment is a huge deal right now. Also, taking the fellowship would involve moving in with my aunt in DC for eight weeks on very short notice.
If I stay where I am (living with parents), there is the *possibility* of paid work in the near future (though no guarantee). Plus, no additional outlay needed for commuting from my aunt’s place to the fellowship site in VA.
What do I do?
raven
@Luthe: Do you think working for the campaign will advance you in what you really want to do?
muddy
@raven: ;-)
raven
@muddy: peace out dawg
Gelfling545
@Reggie Mantle: you are mistaking exasperation for hate.
Shell
Me, Im sick and tired of that damned bird.
Barbara
Loviatar: Since no “lawyer” has responded yet: Yes, I would have my doubts about getting Judge Persky assigned to my case were I defending a sex offender, but it’s all game theory — you might fear that he would be harsher than he was with Turner, but if he did that, it would tend to validate — not counter — the criticism that he did Turner a big fat favor because he empathized with him on the basis of their shared background as Stanford athletes. A lot of bias is unconscious. I think that what is most likely to happen is that he will simply revert to form for other defendants who don’t “appeal” to his paternal or socio-economic instincts, so your best bet as a lawyer would be to look at Judge Persky’s prior record on sentencing for sex offenders. Which is what Persky himself should have done in order to combat the evident empathy that he felt for Turner. This isn’t to be especially vicious towards Turner, it is simply to ensure that justice is as neutral as it can be. If jail sentences are too long for rapists (and other criminals) generally (which I tend to think they are), that’s a systemic issue and it is grossly unfair to address it on a case by case basis by shortening sentences for those defendants you empathize with most strongly.
trollhattan
@srv:
That probably explains why Donny polls so well with Latinos. Hillary had better keep her eye on that teensy cohort. Oh, wait, somebody just pointed a camera at Donny, let’s see what he has to say about voter outreach.
srv
@Luthe: Perhaps the hall monitors and others of BJ can sponsor a fellowship.
negative 1
@Luthe: I’d make sure that the free labor leads to paid employment. It varies greatly on what your career path afterwards would be. Other than that, I wouldn’t work for free, but that’s just me.
In my office we have a former campaign fellow for Clinton I, however his father is a very popular labor lawyer and he himself is a lawyer. Working on the campaign greatly helped his subsequent career, however he was a lawyer and his father had enough pull to get him some very great assignments which he excelled at. This is what I mean about your subsequent career path. I don’t really know how much coordinating door knockers would help if you are going into a non-political or law field.
Gin & Tonic
@Luthe: Raven hit the nail on the head. After the fellowship is up, what’s next, and how would listing that fellowship on your CV be an asset?
Miss Bianca
@weaselone: It’s whining ALL THE WAY DOWN.
Iowa Old Lady
@Luthe: My own blue collar background says you need money to live on. Volunteering, like a summer abroad, is a luxury.
ETA: Having read other comments, can you run a Go Fund Me or some similar thing?
hovercraft
Trump has some brilliant innovations he is bringing to the 2016 campaign.
I,m just quacking in my boots.
trollhattan
Holy crap, outsourcing detention centers? I should have taken a clue from the fact the CBP has become our largest law enforcement agency there’s money to be made, but it’s not exactly tailored for private sector pixie dust.
Barbara
@Patricia Kayden: You also have schools like the one where my child attends, where the trumpet section of the band renamed their instruments “rumpets” so as not to have to utter the syllable “trump” during the course of the day. My child – blond and blue eyed – is horrified that some of his friends would be forced to “go back” to wherever it is they came from. Some parents are so scared they started keeping their kids home from school, and the superintendent sent out a letter in multiple languages assuring people that the schools would not initiate immigration enforcement.
Mike J
Ella in New Mexico
@Miss Bianca:
Lol, seriously, I am SOOO looking forward to the day here at BJ when every post doesn’t devolve into 300-500 nasty back and forth whining comment-wars that literally appear to be cut and pasted from the LAST 300-500 nasty back and forth whining comment-war one hour below. I seriously don’t see how people can spend so much time on insulting someone they don’t know in person. Over and over and over again…
When can we start working together again, tearing the shit out of Dohole Crumpf and the Republicans again and stop tearing the shit out of each other?
Can’t we all just get along? ;-)
hovercraft
Stacey Dash is going to win the black vote for Trump
CONGRATULATIONS!
@hovercraft: Not just Clinton workers. My wife told me our wedding pics were the last ones of her that she ever wanted posted online by anyone, and we’ve made that stick. Some people have been real shits about it, thinking she’s being weirdly antisocial, but too bad. She shouldn’t have to justify not wanting to be photographed. Here’s the issue, which we do not share with others – she’s a teacher and – you wouldn’t think this – we get threats every year. Angry parents, mostly, but also some “taxpayer advocate” types and that sort of thing. Online and occasionally over the phone. Nobody’s come by the house yet, don’t know why not, our address and her salary is publicly listed thanks to some bullshit “open government” law that the right has abused relentlessly. But I’m prepared for that if it happens.
These women aren’t stupid and their fears are legitimate.
Barbara
@Technocrat: Honestly, I think the better approach here — not always feasible in a group, more feasible one on one — is to take the guy aside and tell him that it’s just not funny and it offends a lot of people to tell jokes like that. Maybe it wouldn’t be better than what must have been an obvious, if silent, rebuke, but it’s weird that he even thought it would be okay. Ethnic jokes in my workplace result in people having to write apologies to the entire office.
Amir Khalid
@hovercraft:
I really hope this is a typo.
trollhattan
@Ella in New Mexico:
Five minutes ago. Bernie is past his sell-by date and pivot time is now.
I’m fully convinced most of the “I’m voting for Trump because Billary be crimes.” I’m seeing infesting comment threads and letters to editors are from Republican plants. This is one arena they own–spreading discontent and distrust and disunity. I’m not fooled, nobody chooses Trump over Hillary unless they love what Trump is saying.
trollhattan
@Amir Khalid:
No ducking the question!
Barbara
@srv: Sachs and maybe Sanders need to learn something about power and negotiated settlements: your peak influence occurs before, not after, irreversible defeats. It’s too late for Sanders to ask for the moon, or to be co-president. And yes, that does start to raise the needle on my misogyny meter — because there was a period of time (maybe still is) in which one “solution” for not giving a woman sole management control even when you know she is the right person to promote is to make her “co” something with a man. Sachs is the guy who engineered Bernie’s great Vatican journey. I wouldn’t rely on him for tactical advice.
Miss Bianca
@Amir Khalid: If it walks like a duck, in duck boots…
Iowa Old Lady
@Barbara: A friend of mine has children adopted from Asia, and her son was in tears because he was afraid he’d be sent away.
hovercraft
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
The problem with sharing or in my opinion oversharing is that it opens you up to blowback. Public records should show only as much info as necessary for accountability, but not enough for doxxing.
@Amir Khalid:
I usually quack bare foot. Should have been quaking.
different-church-lady
@Miss Bianca: These boots were made for quacking…
Iowa Old Lady
@Barbara: It only occurred to me today that if Sanders decides DWS’s scalp is his unshakeable demand, that will add to the perception of sexism. I don’t necessarily think that’s true. She’s problematic for a lot of people, but I can see how it looks that way. He can’t defeat one woman, so he goes after another.
different-church-lady
@trollhattan:
That was brilliant the way you announced the end of hippie-punching hour by punching a hippie.
trollhattan
@hovercraft:
I live in California, say quack.
Kay
@negative 1:
I have gotten phone calls on a state supreme court race and a state court of appeals race, but those aren’t bumperstiker-y.
I’m going to a parade on June 11 and a county Dem org asked me if I could get Clinton signage and things but I haven’t had any luck yet. They can always make their own signs.
trollhattan
@different-church-lady:
Bernie is a hippie? My first time reading this.
hovercraft
@Iowa Old Lady:
Part of the problem with getting her scalp is that all the party chairs would vote her out. And apparently they love her because she is a great fundraiser. Clinton can ask for her scalp but in the end it’s their choice and they will be looking at their own bottom line.
satby
@Eric U.:thanks!I agree, because my sister was getting so whiplash by conflicting advice she just asked me to try to handle it last night.
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: And thanks to you too. Especially about how to find someone qualified.
I did IT for a wealth management firm in the early lights, and if they just sent out funds as gifts to heirs that had refused the inheritance the other heirs would have owned the firm by the time the lawsuit was over. I get where my sister can’t get a straight windfall without it affecting her benefits, if she won the Powerball she should be kicked off Medicaid. But we’re talking about around $20k, which with her medications and home health aide expenses to even dress and bathe would be used up fast. And then she’d be destitute again.
Barbara
@Iowa Old Lady: She is problematic for me, and has been for a while, but not for the same reasons that she is problematic for Sanders. It frosts me that she will not zealously support Democrats in Florida districts represented by Republican reps who are friends of hers. That is breach of a political fiduciary duty, to put your personal feelings ahead of the well-being of the party you are serving. That alone makes her unsuitable IMO. But that’s nothing new.
Just One More Canuck
@Amir Khalid: I hope it isn’t a typo
satby
@weaselone:
Very meta
hovercraft
@trollhattan:
In Cali you seem to have an excess of both.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@hovercraft:
Interesting thing about her “black people like to make money” bullshit.
So do white people, and preferably at doing nothing.
As I’ve long said about white folks who enjoy tut-tutting about their perceptions about character defects inherent to black culture:
We really need a Truth and Reconciliation process. The relationship of white America and black America is frayed. There are no “takebacks”, but the consequences of white America’s actions can sure as shit be mitigated through engagement – and self-reflection is an inherent and intrinsic first step.
chopper
@Gelfling545:
oh, totally. when your 3-year-old is going through a toddler phase and whining and throwing tantrums all the time it’s exasperating as fuck. doesn’t mean you hate the kid. you’re just fed up with all the whiny melodrama.
scav
@hovercraft: Is rather endearing that rich white boy’s apparently got so many jobs in his back pocket that he’s now going to give black people. Hasn’t been doing it all along because it’s right, but isn going to do it now when there’s something for him to get out of it. Wonder what the rich white boy’s payoff for his manly smashing of the glass ceiling for the ineffective little wimminz-folk was.
Emma
@Jerzy Russian: It’s been happening to me too.
Miss Bianca
@hovercraft: And Sec. Clinton won’t ask for her scalp. In fact, I think if Sen. Sanders has the nerve to make that demand, she’s going to treat him to her rich, fruity laugh and then just say, “no”.
(now Michael Corleone is coming to mind for some reason).
gex
@Patricia Kayden: I wonder if white men like him know what that sounds like to the rest of us. “We have to keep voting for the party that is destroying this country with it’s fiscal and economic policies because POC, women, and queers now object to us denigrating them all the time. Sure, no one is ACTUALLY stopping us from saying whatever we want. It’s just that now these undermensch dare express their opinions about what we say and it makes us SO SAD!”
CONGRATULATIONS!
@hovercraft: A public school teacher in California has the following information made available to the public:
Full name
Address
Phone
Salary history
Benefits history
Credential status/date acquired
More than you’d get in a standard dox drop minus the SSN.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@Miss Bianca:
“Senator, you get nothing. In fact, for her next 12 paychecks, I’d appreciate it if you paid her directly from your own pocket, each check to be accompanied by a note thanking her for her good work”.
gene108
@Ella in New Mexico:
We can start on-line class on “How to ignore internet Trolls”, which will teach people the extremely difficult skill of (a) seeing a comment they find annoying, (b) realizing it is from a Troll, who is going to hit the same annoying note over and over again and add nothing to a conversation, and (c) scrolling on by, as if the comment was not there.
Given the difficulty of the subject at hand, I figure we can start charging huge amounts of money to train people. Maybe even brand it and start selling franchises like Kumon does. Or some sort of Amway pyramid system, where you train ‘x’ number of people and they can then get certified to teach to others and they set up their classes of ‘y’ number of people and you get a cut, because you started the classes.
The possibilities are endless
CONGRATULATIONS!
@gene108: Guys: Troll-B-Gone. IT WORKS. I can’t see troll comments or anyone’s replies to said comments. Makes this comment section MUCH easier to deal with. Just click to install.
glory b
@Reggie Mantle: I’ve seen hippies. You guys aren’t hippies. You’re only pretend hippies.
Ella in New Mexico
@gene108:
MAKE IT SO. ;-)
glory b
@Bailey: No, as each day goes by, more and more of them are with us.
Ella in New Mexico
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
Tempting, but I prefer not to use a crutch to deal with the situation. I’ll just keep on developing my “use self-control and ignore” muscles instead. I’m already able to not even click on “It has 487 comments” with absolutely no curiosity whatsoever about what I’m missing.
I feel so clean and sober now. :-P
Fellatio Alger
@Miss Bianca: A hill called Mons.
D58826
@gene108: MAybe an elective at Trump U.
SFAW
@Jerzy Russian:
Thanks. I’ll try that. (I run Firefox on XP, but all software works with everything the same way all the time, right? Is this where I say “Thanks, Obama”?)
ruemara
@Luthe: what Raven asked. Not being able to take unpaid internships was a mistake I’ll never recover from, so if this is what you want to do, figure it out and do it. Set up a gofundme and post back. Maybe we can assist with some living expenses cash.
Fuck Ralph Nader. Right on some progressive issues, but a horrible, tone deaf bigot. He was fricking nostalgic for ethnic & racial joke books. The savior complex condescension from these “leaders” on the progressive side has me pretty much weary of these soul crushing allies and the enablers who cannot accept you can be progressive and have repellent racial prejudice and biases. Your revolution failed because it was largely middle and upper class and white.
glory b
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: I’m not an expert either, but know a few Pennsylvania lawyers who do this.
Is there a reason to disclaim the gift? Is another family member who is also on the receiving end with a particular financial hardship? If not, it might be rough going if it wasn’t set up right in advance.
The programs are supposed to be for the indigent. You can’t voluntarily give up a windfall to stay eligible.
Uncle Cosmo
@Failey: STFU, GTFO, & take Drudgie Mottle with you. No one is interested in the opinions of shitheads like yinz.
I’d ask you both to take your best shot at making the world a better place–by throwing yourselves in front of speeding semis–but since neither of you can find your arses with both hands, locating a highway with the appropriate traffic is doubtless beyond you.
glory b
@negative 1: As I recall, chuck Todd got to where he is through a campaign internship, and he didn’t even graduate from college.
So, yeah, It would be the internship if it was me.
satby
@glory b:
Blockquote fail
Bailey
@Uncle Cosmo:
Stay classy.
The Other Chuck
@Jerzy Russian: The poor quality of the ads here not only makes them disruptive, I have no doubt the ad network is just as shoddy and therfore prone to serving up the occasional malware too. I recommend using an adblocker and throwing a few bucks Cole’s way instead.
Captain C
@The Thin Black Duke: Strangely enough, I haven’t seen it. I think I’m now going to have to track it down.
Applejinx
@SFAW: Aw man: I lived in Lexington in the seventies and eighties. I sure recognize that name, I used to listen to BCN.
Applejinx
@Cermet:
Hey, framing things tactfully is not just for Clintonistas y’know.
Sanders kept the CONVERSATION honest. He kept the MSM from drifting too far right. He, more or less singlehandedly, made it so that the Villagers running the debates weren’t asking questions like ‘Some say, Secretary Clinton, that you won’t keep our country safe from the terrorists and that Governor Bush would stand more strong for our freedoms. Does that make you weak?’
Bernie spared us from the whole universe being shaped like a wingnut (through mostly footage of massive rally turnout on the media) and changed the environment around Clinton and everybody else. There’s ‘honest’ and there’s ‘running for office and faced with the electorate you have, not the electorate you want’, and if Hillary has ever drifted right it’s because of pressure from the outside world mandating it, much like Clinton was operating in a post-reagan, extreme-right environment.
Bernie normalized liberalism. We’re now arguing over the validity of corporate-centrist liberalism versus Scandinavian socialism and people fucking think there is a secret overwhelming majority, in AMERICA after decades of Fox News, for the socialism!
And the media have gone right along with it, slaves to the tight-race narrative. To them, it’s: “America, completely filled with revolutionary socialists? Opinions vary. Look, here’s a yelling man who says so! Does that mean Clinton’s votes are all fake?”
Now Clinton can be as liberal as she wants. There’s cover for it. That’s the hidden gift of the Bernie run. We don’t have to actually deal with him governing the whole country, but the Overton window is completely shattered, all over the map. This would not be true if not for Bernie, how close he came, and that he didn’t actually win. (if he did, I’m pretty sure things would’ve disintegrated, but this I think we can keep and run with).