There’s an affirmative case to be made for Hillary- she’s qualified, she’s smart, she’s motivated, she has detailed plans and will have the most progressive platform and agenda of my lifetime (thanks in part to the fact that our shift to the left during the Obama years made this possible), she’s tough, she understands how Washington works, and so on. There are a ton of reasons why she will make a good President. Are there things about her that give me cause for concern- of course. But so too has the Obama administration had things I didn’t like- but you take the good with the bad, and no one can say that the election of Barack Obama was not worth the blood, sweat, and tears it took to get him elected.
Well, no one sane.
So one of the things that has been bothering me a lot lately is the rhetoric from our true progressive betters, in that there is no difference in a vote for Clinton than a vote for Trump, or that the choices they have are so bad they might as well not vote or vote for Jill Stein. It’s foolish on a number of levels, especially when you consider many of them believe that having Clinton lose would rush in a new progressive era. If Clinton loses because progressive choose to abandon the Democratic party in a fit of poutrage, nothing could be farther from the truth (further? Fuck it, I’m spent.):
Though it might offend his uber-progressive supporters to hear this, the Sanders insurgency is largely a white revolution. All the talk about Sanders representing the future of the Democratic Party because of his overwhelming popularity among young people leaves out an important caveat: He couldn’t persuade minority voters to sign on. In many ways a Sanders victory, propelled by the least diverse states in the nation, would have been a step backward in American race relations. Now that Hillary Clinton has laid claim convincingly to the nomination with decisive wins in California and New Jersey, the party—and Bernie’s supporters—are at a crossroads. If they insist on maintaining their purist divide from Clinton, they will create a rift in the party that’s not just ideological, but racial.
***The evidence of the racial divide lies even within the general election matchup polls Sanders and his supporters love to cite. He leads in a potential matchup with Trump by a larger margin than does Clinton. But that’s largely because Clinton’s minority voters would eagerly back Sanders as the Democratic nominee. Latinos hold a similar rate of favorability for Clinton and Sanders and would vote for either Democrat against Trump in nearly the same percentage, according to a poll by Latino Decisions.
Minority voters have been watching in horror as millions of Republican voters choose Trump either because of, or despite, his open bigotry. The Sanders supporters who toy with the idea of shunning Clinton in November and allowing Trump to become president to force a revolution that Sanders couldn’t deliver are playing with fire. To minority voters, Trump’s candidacy feels like an existential threat. It’s one thing for Republicans to either ignore or embrace his racism; the party already seems unwilling or incapable of making the kinds of adjustments it must to attract more non-white voters. It’s quite another for white Democrats to not appreciate how liberal minorities feel about the possibility of a Trump presidency and what that would say about the state of racial progress in America. It would be a slap in the face, the latest sign that a kind of white privilege—throwing a temper tantrum because they don’t get their way despite how much it hurts people of color—is deeply rooted within liberal, Democratic ranks as well.
Many Sanders supporters believed his push to regulate Wall Street and solve economic inequality would resonate with minority voters. It didn’t because minority voters know that liberal policies alone won’t reverse decades of racial inequalities. They have been loyal members of liberal unions where white Democrats received plush jobs, even if they were no more qualified than their black colleagues. They’ve seen the same thing in liberal Hollywood and the supposedly liberal world of the media, whose top ranks remain mostly white.
Repudiating Clinton because she is not Sanders would be a disaster for the purist progressives who think theirs is the one true way by fracturing the party beyond Reince Priebus’s wildest dreams. It’s about party unity, and it’s not about party unity. It’s about the makeup of the party, period. The only people who would win are the Green party, who might get ballot access on two more states and then poll at about 5% everywhere. That would surely be worth it.
But let’s get back to where we started- choices. It drives me up the wall to hear people who are in their first or second election cycle saying things like “I’m tired of choosing the lesser of two evils. Why can’t I vote for my dream candidate?”
First off, you can. You can write in Bernie Sanders, Ralph Nader, the Flying Spaghetti monster, fer fuck’s sake you could vote in Tunch’s celestial body if you want. But you’re pissing away your vote and you are betraying how truly naive you are and effectively not participating.
Second, who are these people? How fucking awesome must their lives be that the only time they have to make tough choices is during a presidential election? There seems to be some group of people where the only time in their life they have to grapple with choices that range from “Shitty” to “Shittier” is during elections. That’s not my life. I’m only 45, but my life is filled, every fucking single day, with choices of the lesser evil. The same is true for every single other human being on the planet who is not working from a position of extreme privilege.
Christ, it starts for me before I even wake up in the morning. The kids blew up the new lawn mower. Steve is starting to act like he has ear mites. Rosie is getting gimpy and crabby and looks unhappy and needs another cortisone shot. I need to go to the dentist. The refrigerator is dying. I have a set amount of money. Which do I deal with first? And even these are choices from privilege, because every day people out there are deciding whether they feed their kids or pay their utilities. My freezer and pantry are stocked and I have lots of cat food and a big 50 lb bag of dog food, so we’ll be fine.
And that doesn’t even get into the choices one has to deal with as President. Most of the President’s decisions are between shit, shittier, even shittier, jesus christ that’s bad, oh fer fuck’s sake, fuck me I quit.
So just stop it. Think about things. The choice between Clinton and Trump isn’t one of choosing between lesser evils. It’s the choice between a career politician who has made a few bad choices over a long career but overall is a pretty decent candidate who at the very least will be able to hold on to the progressive gains we’ve made and serve as a calm steward of the party for a few years, and an extinction level event masquerading as a walking, talking, orange abomination with a comb-over.
So pull yourself together, fer fuck’s sake.
TL;DR: I hate all of you.
Trentrunner
Clinton just gave a speech at Planned Parenthood and now Trump is speaking at some Ralph Reedy faithy-thing.
If a sentient being watched 5 minutes of both speeches, the choice could not be more stark.
(Btw, he just said Hillary was under “criminal investigation.”)
rikyrah
No Muhammad Ali funeral thread, Cole?
John Cole
Why do I even bother writing shit?
Major Major Major Major
Good rant, Cole.
@Trentrunner: “Criminal investigation” is the new thing from the fever swamps. I didn’t click on any of the headlines so I don’t know why, but it’s the new thing.
Tom Levenson
That’s my blogmaster! I wish Cole could run for a third term…
maurinsky
I am glad you wrote this, it encapsulates my own feelings about this year’s election.
Aqualad08
Trump’s speech has been dropped in favor of an airport shooting in Dallas. Oh, America :(
gogol's wife
@John Cole:
Quoted for truth and powerful insight, thank you for this post:
“Second, who are these people? How fucking awesome must their lives be that the only time they have to make tough choices is during a presidential election? There seems to be some group of people where the only time in their life they have to grapple with choices that range from “Shitty” to “Shittier” is during elections. That’s not my life. I’m only 45, but my life is filled, every fucking single day, with choices of the lesser evil. The same is true for every single other human being on the planet who is not working from a position of extreme privilege.”
schrodinger's cat
Bernie’s proposals to take on Wall Street are not substantive. His interview with NYDN shows that. Besides hot air he does not have much to offer. Hillary on the other hand is a survivor, a champion and she learns from her mistakes. My take here
JPL
@John Cole: Beautiful rant.
Mike J
This is not a hard choice for voters. This choice is dead easy.
dollared
John, this is just another pile of shit in your neverending desire to demonize Sanders voters. More Sanders voters have already agreed to vote for Clinton at this stage than Clinton voters agreed to vote for Obama at the same stage.
So shut the fuck up and get on with unifying, rather than dividing. If you need to get and stay angry, find something else to get pissed about. Elephant poaching. Actual, you know, racist practices (as opposed to the imaginary racism of voting for Sanders). The behavior of your worst Clintonite trolls narrowing the base of your blog.
But the Sanders voters voting Republican? Please. It’s a massive insult to your fellow Democrats, and it shows you’d rather find enemies under your bed than actually contribute to making the US a better place.
cite
democraticunderground.com/1107139224
schrodinger's cat
@John Cole: You should post some Tunch photos when you have time. I miss the big guy.
The Golux
@Trentrunner:
I think I see the problem.
eric
For most of the women i have ever dated, I tend to think I was the lesser of two or more evils, so that process does not offend my delicate sensibilities.
It always amazes me that people are shocked that great athletes are often hyper-competitive in a way that is not always attractive, or that politicians are creatures of compromise and ambition. In many ways, you cannot be one without the other. Some do it more gracefully than others, e.g., Obama, but the core traits are essential to success.
JPL
@schrodinger’s cat: He was special.
Taylor
So out of curiosity, when Nader was going full Nader in 2000, talking about a Bush victory being the best thing for progressive politics in this country, were there older voters thinking, The left could not be stupid enough to do this again?
My PIL voted for Anderson in 1980, but I don’t get the impression he enabled the Reagan victory.
Loviatar
Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump are two sides of the same coin. White rage. While Sanders is on the correct side, its still rage and someone enraged doesn’t care who or what they hurt. That scares me.
Cleos
I’m more sick of this bilge than anybody wants to hear about and have started to resort to a paraphrase of a very worthy exhortation used by my LGBT friends:
Some of us are Clinton supporters. Get used to it.
Trentrunner
@Major Major Major Major: Trump was talking about the emails and the FBI investigation.
John Cole
@dollared: Then this isn’t directed at you. So fuck off.
dollared
@Loviatar: So you can’t tell the difference between Sanders and Trump? And you want to dismiss Sanders’ voters with a racist epithet? I think I see your problem.
Big Ole Hound
Nothing is more important than the SCOTUS appointees in the next few years. Vote accordingly.
amygdala
Perhaps, in answer to your maybe rhetorical question at #3, because there’s wisdom between those parentheses?
Here’s something we need to remember: Bubba got us a good ways out of the jam that years (decades, really) of Reagan’s awful policies got the country into. That’s why the 2000 election was such a catastrophe. So maybe Al Gore isn’t as inspirational as the President under which he served, or the current one. And maybe 9/11 would have still happened on his watch. It’s doubtful he would have invaded Iraq without raising taxes to pay for it. We’d be less behind in trying to address climate change.
Point is that it will take longer to get us out of the trouble we’re in than it took us to get into it in the first place. President Obama was able to stabilize a ginormous, global economic crisis. Now, maybe, just maybe, if we can avoid another Republican Administration, we can start to build on that stability. We’re overdue for a recession. It is critical that the response to that is not slashing spending, which is what a Republican President will do, especially if his party controls one or both houses of Congress.
Digging out of the hole Reagan et al got us into will not happen by waving a magic wand, even if we had a majority of sane legislators (which we clearly don’t). It will be a long, slow grind. It’s unrealistic to the point of irrational to think Hillary, Bernie, or anyone else can snap their fingers and make it happen. We have to buckle up for the long haul. It’s tedious, exhausting, and distinctly unfun, but there it is. What could happen quickly is a free-fall disaster if the Donald gets to the White House. Preventing that and flipping the Senate are the first priorities for sane Americans. There’s no other way.
Josie
This is why I keep coming back to BJ – always hoping for a rousing John Cole rant, and once again you have delivered. Thanks. I love you. In a non-creepy way, of course.
Ben
Clinton now under a criminal investigation, not just a security inquiry.
Not good.
dollared
@John Cole: So who is it directed at? A demographic that doesn’t exist, except in your mind. Your first clue: you’re linking to Politico.
JustRuss
Thanks. I just interviewed for a demotion with the organization that’s letting me go, I needed that.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Major Major Major Major: Josh Earnest answered a question about the FBI investigation of Hillary twice yesterday. He made a general point that the President does not get involved in any FBI investigations as a general principle. The second time he said almost exactly the same thing but added the word “criminal” to “investigation”, so the insane Teabaggers are taking it as “proof” that Hillary is under a Criminal Investigation.
That is all.
Cheers,
Scott.
philpm
Thanks for this John. My best friend is thinking of throwing her vote away on Jill Stein. I think I need to have her read this.
dedc79
Corollary: How fucking awesome must their lives be that they’ve apparently never lost at anything and therefore never learned how to lose gracefully? They’re a bunch of Eric Cartmans.
redshirt
Another 8 years of Democratic leadership is just what this country needs. And another 8 after that. And so on.
I don’t care who the candidate is. As long as he/she is not a Republican.
Bonford
It’s “further.”
PGE
I was going to vote for Nader in 2000 (I wasn’t aware of what a useless jerk he is). Then I saw the polling in my state was close enough that I couldn’t risk wasting a vote that might make a difference, and voted Gore. Now I’d never consider voting for a 3rd party candidate: we don’t have a parliamentary system where coalitions are built in across parties; the only place to build progressive coalitions is within the Dem party. Whether one likes it or not.
redshirt
@Ben: Give me a non conservative media link.
slag
@shomi: I’m sensitive to concern trolling, and this is not concern trolling:
This is real.
If you don’t already know that then you simply don’t get out enough.
Brachiator
@Taylor:
Yes.
But purity progressives never, never, ever learn.
Loviatar
@dollared:
Yes I can actually.
Sanders
Supporters who are primarily white are angry because the things they feel are owed to them they’re not getting. And the feeling of superiority they would have over there fellow Americans have been diminished (college educated vs. non).
Trump
Supporters who are primarily white are angry because the things they feel are owed to them they’re not getting. And the feeling of superiority they would have over there fellow Americans have been diminished (white vs. non).
see the huge difference in the two groups.
Chyron HR
@Ben:
Ben
@redshirt: salon.com/2016/06/10/fbi_criminal_investigation_emails_clinton_approved_cia_drone_assassinations_wit…
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
QFT:
I would add that anyone who hasn’t seen or read a transcript of Sen. Warren’s speech yesterday, please do so now. This election is about much more than Hillary or Donnie. It’s about the future of the US Court System, too. As bad as things are now, imagine what happens when people like Roy Moore are calling the shots. Imagine what happens when the SCOTUS decides there is a Constitutional Right to concealed-carry firearms. Imagine what happens when the SCOTUS decides that having zero abortion clinics is just fine with Roe v. Wade. When “religious tests” are not Unconstitutional. It’s not that hard to imagine a future like that…
We can prevent it, if we pull together and think.
Cheers,
Scott.
dollared
@JustRuss: I’m very sorry to hear that. Been there. If you have to take the demotion, take it. And then get right to work on your vacation plans and your bucket list. They just asked less of you, so give them exactly that and enjoy life.
Aqualad08
@Ben:
LOL… is someone still changing your diapers or are you wearing Easy-Ups yet?
Chyron HR
@Ben:
Ben
@Chyron HR:
What are you babbling on about?
dollared
@Loviatar: Yup. No data behind your assertions and your mindreading. And again, racist. Never a need to go there, except to denigrate and dismiss without dealing with facts and substance.
Aqualad08
@Chyron HR: Quick! We must inform Shaun King and HA Goodman!
Trinity
I feel ya John Cole. Hearing people say” Bernie or Bust” makes me ill will terror. Trump is nightmare that we (esp.minorities and women) simply cannot afford.
Ben
@shomi:
It just happened to be the first result on Google News is all.
You can cut the smug complacency here with a knife. Out candidate is under a serious investigation into criminal conduct, that Salon story is extremely damning. Ordering drone strikes with her cell phone? That’s an uneblievably cavalier attitude towards the brown bodies on the recieving end of the drone.
Aqualad08
@dollared:
Did you nose twitch at all when you were writing that?
SenyorDave
I once saw a documentary on the Civil Right Movement. They interviewed an elderly African-American gentleman from Alabama who was finally allowed to vote in the 1960’s. One of the first votes he cast was for mayor of his town, and it was for a confirmed racist. He happened to be running against a man who was reputed to be a local klan leader. He said in many elections he voted for the lesser of two evils. It often came down, he said, to voting against someone instead of for someone.
The thought of Trump winning horrifies me. I would be very alarmed that enough Americans supported this racist pig to make him the most powerful man on earth. But I suspect my day-to-day life will not change much if Trump wins. If I were a person of color or a woman or just about anything other than a white male, I would be far more concerned that my day-to-day life would change for the worse.
dr. bloor
@Aqualad08:
I fully expect Trump to start biting the heads off of live kittens to get the live feed back on his speech.
redshirt
@Ben: Thanks. My thoughts in bullet point form:
1. I don’t like that there’s an investigation into the Dem’s Presidential nominee
2. But it seems inconsequential
3. Would Bams really endorse her if he though this would drag her down?
Chyron HR
@Ben:
Life’s rough, kid.
BillinGlendaleCA
@John Cole: Because you hate all of us.
starscream
@Ben: I’m with you on people here dismissing it too easily, but what else was she supposed to do? If she thought the strike was necessary and wasn’t near a more secure computer, should she have just waited?
Aqualad08
@Ben:
Nope.. Muhammad Ali’s funeral, followed by Trump speech protesters, Dallas airport shooting, Gawker bankruptcy, flights to Cuba, and Gordie Howe…
Christ, you SUCK at this…
Run, Lillian!
There is will be no revolution in this country that isn’t led my women and people of color. I read that somewhere during this primary season and it resonated deeply. When I was Bernie-curious last summer, I was turned off pretty quickly when I saw so much of his online support coming from old leftist people who want to push women and people of color’s issues aside for their own color and gender blind agenda. Claiming of course, that their agenda will lift all boats. Some one called it: “trickle down social justice”, which was perfect.
I don’t want to contribute to any acrimony with in the democratic party, I want unity as much as anyone. But if democratic socialism is going to get a real foothold in the electorate here, the activists have to learn lessons from where the Bernie campaign succeeded as well as where it failed.
Bubblegum Tate
This is the kind of shit the BernOrBusters I know are trying to talk themselves into:
I mean, what the fucking fuck?
Betty Cracker
Amen, Cole. It’s not a hard fucking choice to anyone who cares about these valedictorians. Someone (Maddow maybe?) said it’s like going to the store to buy beer, discovering they’re out of your favorite brand and saying, “Oh, I’ll just drink bleach instead!”
dollared
@Aqualad08: Um, no. Somebody wants to assert that 40% of Democrats voted out of “white rage,” and that they are just like Trump voters.
Do YOU think they are dealing in facts and substance? OK, then tell me the facts and substance behind those assertions.
starscream
@redshirt: The Salon article is just a rehash of the WSJ report that indicates personal devices were used when State dept officials weren’t at their computers (traveling is apparently a big part of a diplomat’s job), and that people in the know do not expect charges to be filed.
That said, people here are assuming it will go away as a political issue really easily. Bullshit leaks dripped out over the summer could keep her favorables down.
burnspbesq
@dollared:
You can see everyone’s problems except your own.
Mnemosyne
@dollared:
Managing your feelings is not my job.
Women have to manage men’s feelings EVERY MOTHERFUCKING DAY OF OUR LIVES, and it’s really fucking galling to be told that, once again, it’s the woman’s responsibility to make the man feel good and appreciated and calm him down.
Fuck you. It’s not my job to manage your feelings of butthurt that your candidate GOT FEWER VOTES. Get the fuck over it, or get the fuck out of my way.
burnspbesq
Don’t know whether I agree, but even the liberal New Republic etc.
newrepublic.com/article/134146/many-young-bernie-supporters-hillary-clinton-really-need?utm_source=N…
Ben
@Aqualad08:
I meant after searching for Clinton and criminal investigation.
Major Major Major Major
@Run, Lillian!:
Oh my god that’s brilliant.
That was when I knew I was done done done with Bernie. I was Bernie-curious in the beginning (“let’s pressure Hillary to move leftwards”), but the more I saw the less I liked. Then during one of the debates he gave the answer to some question that was, basically, I don’t really care about race/minority-specific issues because these are all part and parcel of economic injustice and will go away on their own once we address that. I knew then that he was nothing but part of the old leftist/Marxist guard whose ship had sailed long ago, and that he clearly hadn’t updated any of his ideas since college, and that was it for me.
Cacti
@shomi:
Disagree with all of the above.
When asked for specifics about his plans, Sanders showed himself to be an intellectual featherweight.
And the Sanders revolution is dripping with paternalistic racism and white savior-itis.
Baud
@Bubblegum Tate: I never understood the excessive reliance on spot polling. Is that supposed to be how Democrats should pick their nominees from now on?
Emma
I just wanted to quote this for truth and righteousness. Every president, even the ones I’d consider crappy, seem to leave the job twenty years older.
GregB
But Louis CK said America needs to switch parties after 8 years!
Trollhattan
@dedc79:
Thanks for the link. Between Cartman and Cole I’m now ready to wrap this week.
burnspbesq
@Ben:
If you understood federal criminal procedure, you would rise from the fainting couch, release your death-grip on your pearls, and resume living.
Soprano2
Posts like this are why I come to this blog. Thanks, John, for that righteous rant. I keep asking Sanders’ supporters who they think is more likely to appoint Supreme Court justices who might vote to overturn Citizen’s United, Clinton or Trump, and they keep avoiding the answer. It’s time for them to decide which is more important – the causes Sanders is advocating for, or Sanders’ ego.
Major Major Major Major
@Ben: Why the hell did you search for that?
@Cacti: I think they meant ‘intellectual’ as in ‘of or pertaining to the brain’, not, you know, intellectual intellectual.
retr2327
“TL;DR: I hate all of you.” And bless you for that.
There’s nothing quite as good as a righteous Cole rant. One of the other front-pagers put in a pretty good effort recently, but the original is still the best.
” How fucking awesome must their lives be that the only time they have to make tough choices is during a presidential election? There seems to be some group of people where the only time in their life they have to grapple with choices that range from “Shitty” to “Shittier” is during elections. That’s not my life. I’m only 45, but my life is filled, every fucking single day, with choices of the lesser evil. The same is true for every single other human being on the planet who is not working from a position of extreme privilege.”
It’s not quite as succinct as TBogg’s “You don’t live in that world. So grow the F*** up,” but it’s memorable nonetheless. (For those few of you who don’t know where the TBogg quote is from, it’s worth a Google).
jl
” So pull yourself together, fer fuck’s sake. ”
Is that for the loyal devoted readers of BJ blog or Cole’s note to himself?
Sanders and HRC will have a little chit chat soon. They will cook up a plan to keep as many of the lefty purists on board as possible.
At least they will if Sanders is not a complete fool and does not want to spend the rest of his Senate career in a political isolation cell, in the minority in the Senate.
Trollhattan
@Chyron HR:
Criminal BRINKS TRUCKS? Not good.
[Did I capture the flavor just then?]
tobie
This is a little off topic. I was going to chime in in an earlier thread but held back…in part because the primary season is over and I think most people accept that. But I have been a bit irritated that Hillary doesn’t get the progressive kudos she deserves. Her policies didn’t shift that much in the course of the primary. Sanders in that sense didn’t push her left. The party started going in this direction with Obama and quite visibly during the Occupy Wall Street movement. It’s Occupy that made the push for a minimum wage hike possible; it’s Occupy that made Sanders possible and that also made Hillary in 2016 much more left leaning (debt-free college; universal healthcare coverage; increased minimum wage; anti-TPP; regulation of banking & esp shadow banking; paid family leave; universal early childcare, ending Citizens United, etc.) than she had been in 2008. If her proposals didn’t seem as radical as Sanders’, it’s only because she was actually interested in the nuts and bolts of how you get legislation passed.
That said, I think folks who know more than me need to look at what motivated Sanders’ voters. Many indeed wanted to see an immediate and dramatic shift left. Many others, though, were attracted to his populism but not his policies. I just spoke this morning to my contractor who really liked Sanders b/c he wasn’t part of the establishment like HRC is. He’s now leaning Trump. The idea of a professional politician riles him. When I mentioned that Sanders is a professional politician and that it was likely that his wife got the position she did at Burlington College because of his clout as a Senator, he was shocked. How many of Sanders’ supporters fall into this category? I have no clue but the articles I’ve read on exit polls suggest that a big contingent of his voters were anti-HRC for the usual right wing smear reasons. HRC will have to figure out how to combat this. (Am sure she’s doing this already.)
Run, Lillian!
@Mnemosyne:
A-fucking-men!
Major Major Major Major
@Bonford: It’s ‘furthur’.
Ben
@shomi:
I prefer not to live in a liberal media bubble, but read news from all sources. It’s the adult things to do rather than cordoning yourself off and reading things that only confirm your preexisting opinions. Perhaps that’s comforting to some, but you should really grow out of that after adolescents and read things that challenge your views as well. I do read National Review, for example, for just that reason.
Cacti
@Major Major Major Major:
New poster “Ben” is UNLIMITED CORPORATE CASH now posing as a concern troll.
chopper
@Ben:
this is just pants-on-head level stupid.
Omnes Omnibus
@dollared: I don’t think anyone is upset at the majority of people who voted for Sanders. They simply evaluated the candidates and came up with a different result than I did. The people who called me neoliberal, Republican-lite corporate whore and are now demanding that Clinton voters assuage their ego? Those, I can do without.
dollared
@Cacti: Yup, this is exactly the massive, divisive bullshit that will get Trump elected. Democrats calling other Democrats racist because they disagree on financial regulation tactics, health care systems and campaign finance reform. Brilliant. Have you considered a career in marriage counseling?
kd bart
“Indictments are just around the corner.”-William Safire throughout most of the 90s
Trollhattan
@Ben:
Okay that’s a tell, cupcake.
jl
@Ben:
” Clinton now under a criminal investigation, not just a security inquiry. ”
This is not news. the FBI does investigations, as their GOPer boss Comey has said repeatedly. The ‘security inquiry’ language was campaign smoke to hide that fact that the FBI was doing an investigation. That’s the way it’s always been. It’s an investigation, and luckily, as far as we know, an investigation of BS with little evidence that any crime has been committed. That doesn’t change the fact that it’s an investigation.
So, the Fox News story is misleading propaganda, not news.
Edit: which also means that the HRC ‘inquiry’ language, at least when they implied that was what the FBI was doing, was misleading propaganda too. But HRC is political campaign not a news organization. Fox News claims to be a news organization.
Ben
There’s a conservative media bubble, too, but we on the left have to be sure we don’t fall in to the same trap. Freddie DeBoer has talked about this before.
dollared
@Omnes Omnibus: I hear that. But you see, no one on this blog (except you) bothers to make that distinction. See Loviatar’s and Cacti’s comments today – or for that matter, Cole’s rant.
There is serious shit going on in the world. But this blog has been devoted to an imaginary crisis for 3 months now. It’s embarrassing.
Baud
@Ben:
Oh Doug. You done went too far and gave away the game.
Mnemosyne
@JustRuss:
This is easy for me to say, but I would GTFO of that organization if I could.
True story: my husband was laid off from a manager job last February. A month or so later, they called him back to ask him if he’d like to interview for a lower-paying supervisor job (aka not management) that was 100 miles away round-trip.
My reaction was, “Did you say, ‘no,’ ‘hell, no’ or ‘go fuck yourselves’?”
(Fortunately he got a good severance and we had some savings, so he instead went back to school for a library science degree and is much, much happier.)
Bubblegum Tate
@Baud:
I guess so, to these people. It’s ludicrous.
Hell, this guy invented a scenario where 1) the Green Party suddenly becomes a national political force thanks to the Sheer Power of Bernie, and 2) splitting the left-wing vote between two candidates magically defeats Trump instead of handing him the presidency. And it sounded perfectly reasonable to him–at least as reasonable a scenario as one where Clinton wins the nod (he’s among the people screaming, “Nothing’s decided! Convention’s in July! SHE HASN’T WON!”).
I’m hoping this is just a severe case of asshurt that their guy didn’t win the nomination and that with the salve of time, those burns will be soothed in time for the general election, but who knows?
Baud
@jl: My favorite is when Clinton gives an interview with a Villager and they spend their time asking her about emails and then the news will report how she can’t get away from the email thing, even though there is no new information out there.
Origuy
@dollared:
It exists on my Facebook feed.
Earl
“[Clinton] will have the most progressive platform and agenda of my lifetime”
is a “fact” pulled fully unsupported straight out of your ass.
After all, it’s not as if a Clinton has a long history of selling out progressive ideals, is it? Oh wait, why would we compare actual historical data [eg incarceration for him, welfare reform, the vote on the iraq war, support for Keystone XL, DOMA] when instead you could bitch about us not taking her promises seriously?
I’m going to have to vote for her, but let’s not pretend there’s not a decent chance she abandons any progressive agenda 12:01 am 9 November 2016.
Davis X. Machina
Forget emailgate, and Benghazi!!1.
True progressives have moved on. As of yet I don’t see much posting about how Hillary stole the election. Nationwide. It’s bigger than you could possibly imagine.
Major Major Major Major
@tobie: Bernie is a populist leftist. Trump is playing to the populist right. Populism is one of those ‘ideologies’ (such as it is) that wraps around seamlessly once you go far enough to the right/left. That’s one of the reasons you see anti-Semitism at both extremes. (Sanders is not at the extreme, but look at the European left for examples.) So Bernie got a share of the (mostly white) populists–think Reagan Democrats–and now they’re going to go Trump. But they were never real Democratic voters to begin with, so it’s irrelevant from a coalition standpoint since they don’t actually support modern Democrats.
Unions in particular are a part of the ‘old left’ and as such are a dying part of the Democratic coalition. I’ve got no problem with labor personally but you’d be hard-pressed to say it’s a Democratic policy priority at this point. We’re more focused on minimum wage than unionization.
Hillary is a liberal technocrat. I consider myself one as well. That’s why I supported her through the primaries, but since modern leftism (at least in America) yields a similar set of policies I would have supported Bernie just fine if he’d gotten the nomination.
Sloegin
A couple of weeks from now after the butthurt wears off, anyone that still identifies as a Berniebro is functionally an R ratf*cker troll intent on creating D discord in social media. (I supported Hart in 84, Biden in 88, Bradley in 00, Dean in 04, and Bernie this year. And I vote the D candidate in the general every time, because this isn’t a fucking game.)
jl
@Baud: Thanks. for spotting the spoof. Baud! 2016! should get a VP slot for that.
Baud
@Bubblegum Tate: Most people will move on. A few vocal people won’t. Most of them never would have voted for any Dem except Bernie.
Bubblegum Tate
@Omnes Omnibus:
A-fucking-men
gwangung
@dollared: This is bullshit and a complete lie. And it’s one you told before.
I will call ANYONE a racist for telling minorities that their only problems are economic. Or for ignoring their very real fears of getting the short end of the stick of supposedly neutral policies (because it’s ALREADY HAPPENED TO THEM).
BillinGlendaleCA
@Ben:
The Sec. State ordering drone strikes? The Sec. State has no authority to do that, no one would listen to her if she did that.
Baud
@Davis X. Machina: I can’t stand Steven D. I don’t know what Booman sees in him.
Major Major Major Major
@Cacti: Yes, I figured that out. I appreciate the heads-up though, devil knows I give newcomers the benefit of the doubt longer than many here, sometimes to the point where I shouldn’t have.
nutella
@tobie:
During the campaign when HRC came out against the Hyde Amendment shortly afterwards so did Sanders. That was Clinton pushing Sanders to the left but no one noticed since it didn’t fit the narrative.
Aqualad08
@Ben:
HA! Nobody reads the National Review! Not even its editors! BUSTED!
Trollhattan
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Never mind that, I want that goddamn app! (And they better have it for Android, or there will be words.)
Omnes Omnibus
@BillinGlendaleCA: You saw that too?
Cacti
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Well, if the SoS is ordering drone strikes, that is quite the problem, what with that office not being in the chain of command for the Department of Defense. ;-)
It will be equally problematic if the FBI decides to indict candidate Clinton, as the Bureau has no prosecutorial authority.
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA: @Omnes Omnibus:
Agreed. Good catch.
Davis X. Machina
@Baud: It’s a painless — unless you read those pieces — way to gain True Progressive™ cred. As it is, his community is drifting Bob Avakian-wards at a depressing pace.
burnspbesq
Ben probably reads this, too.
yournewswire.com/lawsuit-filed-as-bernie-sanders-wins-california-by-landslide/
Bubblegum Tate
@Baud:
Oh, I’m quite sure >50% of the people I know howling about BernOrBust on Facebook didn’t bother voting in their primaries. But some of them are people I otherwise respect, and it’s disconcerting to see them go so fully batshit crazy.
dollared
@gwangung: And…….therefore all Sanders supporters are white racists and just like Trump supporters?
You’re as good at mindreading as you are at math……
gwangung
@BillinGlendaleCA: It’s typical sloppiness on the part of a lot of commenters (am I guilty of it? whistles). I can conceive of her approving of a strike over a cellphone (because that’s the deal with civilian oversight of another department’s work)…but confusing the two sorta muddies the issue.
gwangung
@dollared: You are still a liar. Or not very good at reading comprehension. Take your pick.
Chris
@Run, Lillian!:
Likewise. I exploded at him on this same blog about a year ago for precisely that reason, after reading an interview where he talked about the disillusionment of the working class with Democrats, but basically admitted that by “working class” he meant “white working class” and seemingly criticizing black and Latino electorates for basing their politics on race. Was hopeful that he’d get better on the campaign trail (and aware of the fact that he was new to the big, national scene), but I haven’t seen it.
I still think concerns about a walkout by Sanders voters are way overblown, and that comparisons to Trump are insultingly ridiculous, but his seeming lack of interest in anything beyond his pet issues are what dissuaded me from voting for him in the primary.
laura
This is a great rant. I voted for Sanders for the sole reason that he intended to remind the democratic party of its strengths in calling for a new New Deal, and we sure as hell can use one. And he has the right to deliver that message at the convention.
And I am glad that Hillary as the presumptive nominee will get my vote, and the vote of as many family members and friends as I can influence. And defeating a narcissistic fascist bigot is the responsibility of each and every American citizen by registering and voting in overwhelming numbers. Even though we have messy, busy lives.
Because we have a collective responsibility to uphold and defend the Constitution especially when a large percentage of the Republican party has undermined our founding document at every oportunity.
David Hunt
Hey, I love you too, man. I believe the proper way to express that love on this blog is “Fuck you, Cole!” but I’m reluctant to because of that no tone inherit in text writing thing…
It’s sad that there is any need to write such a rant as the basic message seems painfully self-evident from where I’m sitting. It’s even sadder that my vote for president in the general will mean nothing as I live in Texas and it would Vote in Satan Incarnate before it goes for Hillary. But I’ll be at the polls in November anyway because I could be wrong and down-ballot races could be close enough for a few votes to make the difference. It’s too bad I won’t have the pleasure of voting against John Cornyn or Ted Cruz this year, but I can still look forward to voting against Bill Flores.
Citizen_X
@Ben:
Oh, the State Department is part of the chain of command now? The things you learn here!
Cacti
@gwangung:
Or when “He marched with Martin Luther King” became Bernfeeler-speak for “Shut up black person”.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
Didn’t these asswipes learn anything from 2000? So many sanctified souls voted for Ralph Nader that we got George Bush for 8 years. I can’t say that was the best run we’ve ever had. And one of the reasons that President Obama, and the Democratic Congress, when we had one, didn’t usher in a whole new Golden Age of Liberal Wonderfulness is that they spent most of their fucking time in office cleaning up the shit that the Republicans had wrought. It’s funny that our betters can’t see that.
divF
@dollared:
That’s our problem.
Trollhattan
@kd bart:
That fucker was pushing the Mohamed Atta Prague meeting bullshit ’til the day he died. Hope he’s enjoying his time in hell, reading the school paper as written by sixth grade dropouts. And for our suffering we get Douthat.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Good news for
John McCainBaud!Ruckus
Cole, wait a few more years. Those good decisions you occasionally get to make? Lots fewer of them. Those lesser of 2 evils? It usually becomes 2 or 3 of the 5 or 6 lesser evils get together and fuck you royally, but maybe not quite as bad as it could be and your choice is to accept the fucking gladly, or not, but of course it never ends well in any event.
Do I sound bitter? Maybe, just a little this morning, it’s been a very bad and still a decent week. So better than normal. I’ll get over it, that’s one of those lesser of 2 evils.
NotMax
Small quibble, but not every state allows write-ins.
cleek
you know what… fuck these people.
fuck the attention-seeking nihilists.
Fair Economist
@tobie: Agree absolutely. Hillary 2016 is pushing policies distinctly more leftward than ones she’s pushed since Hillarycare got beat in 1994, and the reason is Occupy and BLM. They shifted the Overton window and she’s taking advantage of it.
CONGRATULATIONS!
Had this lunatic theory been true, the president after Reagan would have been FDR redux Part II. Didn’t exactly work out that way. What happens when you elect a conservative government is that the population comes to accept those values as normal – and slides ever rightward, exactly as we have seen in the 36 years since Reagan took office.
Trollhattan
I can’t keep up. Anybody know what “Ben’s” next nym will be so I can be prepared?
different-church-lady
Fixed.
Baud
@gwangung:
It would be news if the SoS had any authority other than advisory, at most. And I don’t understand the civilian oversight point. Defense is subject to civilian oversight through the Defense Secretary, who is always a civilian.
The Thin Black Duke
@gwangung: Exactly. This smug and patronizing attitude reminds me of that famous Jules Feiffer cartoon where two white guys are looking with disapproval at a group of African-American protestors and one says to the other, “Civil rights was much more tolerable before Negroes got involved.”
Eric U.
I know some people, one is a bartender, another a mechanic. Neither obviously in the category of masters of the universe. They both voted for Obama, but because the republicans turned everything to shit they haven’t voted again. It’s really impossible to reach people like this. The improvement in their lives if everyone like them voted for Dems would be fairly significant. But they just don’t have the energy to educate themselves on the governmental processes in this country. I can’t blame them, but it makes me profoundly sad.
Haha, “Salon story is extremely damning” — never in the history of Salon has an article about the Clintons been extremely damning.
J R in WV
@John Cole:
To provide amusement for other folks who frequent your blog?
To express your deeply felt opinions?
To help elect Hillary?
For fun?
(((???)))
Next time you need to come down to Charleston let me know, I’ll take you out for lunch, or dinner, whatever. There’s good pizza and BBQ and regular food.
D58826
@Ben: Ben Norton is almost as anti-clinton as Faux news.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Ben:
Are you aware of the history of Fredie and this blog?
different-church-lady
@Ben:
Knock it off, Doug J.
redshirt
@Trollhattan: He’s not the BRINKS TRUCK troll.
Of if he is, he’s playing a different role.
Le’s give him some time before we all start screaming “troll”!
different-church-lady
@redshirt:
Okay.
[counts to three]
TROOOOOOOOLL!!!!!
cleek
@Ben:
whatever you do, don’t Google “Sanders drone program”.
sherparick
@Ben: The key quote, buried in the Salon article that I will not link to, is the following, about the sources of this story: “These are the revelations of a report by The Wall Street Journal, based on information provided by anonymous congressional and law-enforcement officials who were briefed on the FBI’s probe.” E.g. the same old right wing hacks on the Congressional committees and right wing moles in the FBI who have been feeding stuff to credulous reporters about the Clintons for 25 years.
Another note of irony is the “source” themselves are intentionally communicating TS information about the Drone strikes to unauthorized persons when they leak to the media, something Jeremy Scahill approvingly notes because Scahill has strong moral objections to the drone program and to Obama/Clinton use of Drone in the war. But he also reveals his lack of understanding of the law and the distinction of “intentional” revelation of classified information to a 3rd party (whether it was Chelsy Manning sending it to Wikileaks or General Petraeus sharing it with is mistress and biographer) and unintentional risk of disclosure due to spillage from a classified to unclassified system. Both the Journal and Salon story, at the very end state “no criminal indictments are expected” to result from the investigation.
On the choice presented, we have Trump v. Clinton. Don’t like John Cole’s take. Here is Digby’s
salon.com/2016/06/07/normalizing_trump_demonizing_hillary_the_medias_shameful_strategy_for_the_2016_…
And Scott Eric Kauffman at Lawyers, Guns, and Money
lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2016/06/dear-folks-who-supported-sanders-as-much-as-i-did-its-called-a-mirr…
Ruckus
@Mnemosyne:
Hope he said “Go fuck yourselves!”
One of my best days of working was telling the CEO of my last employment situation, I was giving 2 weeks notice and exactly why. During that 2 weeks he told me I needed to catch him up on what I was doing and I said “No, I don’t have to. I will but I don’t have to.” He told me he could still fire me and I begged him to. He didn’t know that I would get a weeks pay for every year I’d been there. That would have been a nice severance bonus, that I wasn’t getting for quitting.
Baud
@redshirt: I didn’t realize there was a waiting period.
Cermet
@Ben: No! This is just spin from a poorly worded statement by the WH spokesperson. There s no criminal investigation except in the minds of the fake news newscasters. I even saw them take the mistaken talk by the spokesperson and slowly twist it and then headline “Criminal Investigation”. Stupid.
Major Major Major Major
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
Considering half the ones I see on Facebook weren’t even old enough to vote, I’ll go with ‘no’.
Elizabelle
@Trollhattan: Ben [working at the RNC] or parody troll. Or DougJ. Take your pick.
GOP convention is July 18-21 in Cleveland.
Dems’ convention is July 25-28 in Philly.
Should not be that hard to stay out of the States until then. Only thing I’ve missed so far is today’s Muhammed Ali funeral — would appreciate.
The political infighting and general load of crap in the US these days: nada.
Trollhattan
@different-church-lady:
Damn you, I wanted to be Frist! [shakes mouse]
Reggie Mantle
@Mnemosyne:
Wow, that linked article is a veritable field full of strawmen. Can I borrow a few for Hallowe’en?
BillinGlendaleCA
@gwangung:
Nope, I can see her being given a “heads up” so that State could deal with the shit that will follow.
gratuitous
One other consideration for the 2016 election, and I saw it alluded to upthread (redshirt at post 34): If Clinton wins, she will be the first Democratic President to succeed a full-term Democratic President since Harry Truman in 1945.* She will have an opportunity – particularly if we install a Democratic-controlled Congress (get out the vote) – to spend her first years actually governing and not cleaning up a colossal mess bequeathed by her Republican predecessor.
Once the log-jam of judicial and agency appointments is cleared, and some legislative patches installed on the Affordable Care Act, imagine a functioning government that did things for all its citizens instead of just the most rapacious, repressive forces (individual and corporate) to stalk the planet since T. Rex went extinct.
*Yes, Roosevelt died in office, but had three full terms before that; Johnson succeeded Kennedy, but Kennedy didn’t get a full term.
Trollhattan
@gratuitous:
From your lips to Tunch’s floofy ear. If she can possibly sweep enough Dems into the senate (telling myself there’s at least a small chance) then it will almost surely usher in a new era.
Reggie Mantle
@Major Major Major Major:
But hey, don’t worry. I’ve been assured that the number of Sanders supporters who won’t vote for Clinton even though Hillary supporters shit on then from now till November is miniscule. Infinitesimal, even.
redshirt
@Baud: 14 days and a background check.
Chris
@Ben:
It’s all conservative media bubble. The “liberal media bubble,” if it exists, is blogs like us. But as far as any major media? You’ve got a choice between the hardcore balls-to-the-wall ideologically right-wing media, and the more vaguely centrist mainstream media that people hilariously misname “the liberal media” – the one that’s breathlessly repeated every Clinton scandal since 1992, that sold Bush as a “compassionate conservative,” that sold the Iraq War, that wouldn’t fact-check such elementarily simple things as the “death panel” claims, and that runs on the general creed of “Shape Of Earth – Views Differ” on every issue that’s even vaguely politically controversial, lest it run the risk of being accused of “liberal bias” (which it then is anyway).
Fair Economist
@Earl:
There’s no abandonment. On every last one of those issues the Clintons kept the promises they’d made. Bill made a big deal about his plans for criminal and welfare reform in 92 and 96.
I’m very glad DOMA passed, BTW, because otherwise we’d have gotten a constitutional amendment barring same-sex marriage. It would have flown through every single legislature, and I’d never have been able to marry.
The Clintons are honest with their promises and they do what they promise as much as they can.
Soylent Green
@Citizen_X:
Ben must have seen that in a movie. I think Susan Sarandon was in it.
The subtext here is that the United States must never take any form of military action anywhere at any time. That would be wrong.
Major Major Major Major
@gratuitous: I think we can include Eisenhower on that list.
J R in WV
@Ben:
According to Faux News? Really? I avoid that like the plague when I go to town, and you drag it into my favorite political blog? Really!
That’s so sad. For you, I mean.
Major Major Major Major
@Fair Economist:
And a Lannister always pays his debts.
I would say, if I didn’t like the Clintons.
les
@amygdala:
Thanks. Did the revolutionaries never notice that Sanders couldn’t say how to fix the problems he “found?” Shit’s hard. Do the work.
J.
@John Cole: So I can send your election posts to my just-turned-18-years-old daughter, who reads them and loves them — and just told me she left a comment on one of them. Feel better now? :-)
les
@Ben:
Did you notice that not even Fox could make it sound like he said Clinton’s under investigation? You are a idiot.
tobie
@Fair Economist: Thank you for adding BLM to the list of factors pushing all Democrats leftward in 2016. That was a horrible omission on my part.
@nutella: The Hyde Amendment is one of my pet peeves. If we use federal money for the war machine and for executions, why not for abortion, especially (but not exclusively) when advised by a doctor? So glad HRC spoke out about this.
Miss Bianca
@tobie:
Jesus chicken-fried Christ (thank you, Betty Cracker. I have so totally stolen this from you). This is the thing that makes me crazy. People falling for this ,”oh, he’s not part of the establishment” crap. Ask your contractor whether he’d subcontract with someone who “wasn’t a real plumber” or “wasn’t a real electrician” because he didn’t trust licensed electricians or plumbers – you know, “the establishment” – to do their jobs properly, and he thought some mavericky outsider would be able to do it better. He’d probably think you were crazy. And he should.
People seem fixated on this notion that a). Sanders is some kind of “outsider” and b) an “outsider” would automatically be a better choice to run things because s/he isn’t “corrupted” by the political process. First of all, with regard to a) – if the guy is an “outsider” after 30 years in politics it’s because he’s chosen to marginalize himself. Which isn’t the way to get shit done. with regard to b), see a) – the only way you GET things done is by turning from an “outsider” to an “insider” – which involves some degree of “corruption”. Which isn’t to let corrupt politicians off the hook – but it is to say, some people have this weirdly romantic notion that anyone can go into politics – and the more bone-ignorant they are about how the political process works, the better.
BruceFromOhio
@jl:
I claim to be a news organization, too! Oh yes I am! Am too! Nyah nyah nyah!
Every third Saturday, I also claim to be a flying squirrel with acrobatic levitation skills, enormous gen!tal!a and millions of dollars worth of nuts.
shortstop
Very nice work, Cole. That brought back tender memories of JC rants I’ve enjoyed just as much.
@gwangung: the important thing isn’t addressing racist thinking within Democratic ranks.. The issue is how we make dollared FEEEEEEEEEL when we point out thaf racist thinking.
Lynn Dee
Hear hear. What JC said.
BruceFromOhio
@Cacti: *snort* Facts, there’s your bias right there. you are so busted.
Seanly
Considering all my wife & I have been through in the last few years, it is hard to get too worked up over this easy choice for President. I long for the days when everything was easy. However, nothing has been easy. I’d just like things to go back to being a little easier.
One of the easier things I’ll be able to do in the coming months is go to my polling place and make a mark for Hillary Clinton for President and one for every other Democratic candidate on the ballot. No problem voting for her specifically.
Disclosure – good friends of my mom include the writer Gene Lyons and his wife who used to be a good friend of Hillary’s from their time in Little Rock. Not sure how my mom didn’t meet Hillary back in the day.
les
@Ben:
My fucking god. Stick to Fox, ffs. Freddy “nobody’s lefter than me, the liberals/feminists/Democrats/everybody is doing it wrong, I’m the only one who knows” DeBoer? We should take you seriously because you found shit on Fox (the most misinformed people in the country are the pure Fox audience; you’ll fit right in) and Freddie the Bore? Bye Bye Pie Man.
BruceFromOhio
@laura: Thank you, Laura. Its helpful to step back and take in the bigger picture, and right on with the undermining comment.
Technocrat
@John Cole:
Yeah, this has bothered me through the primaries. It’s like “Do I get the car fixed and be chilly, or get the furnace fixed and take the bus? Fuck it, I’m not doing either!”. I don’t get that attitude.
Trollhattan
@BruceFromOhio:
So that was YOU….
chopper
@Ben:
shut up, doug.
Chris
@Miss Bianca:
I find it instructive to remember that the two presidents who probably did the most to advance liberalism in the last century were both products of the same establishment that they ended up tearing into from the inside – Franklin Roosevelt the economic populist came from a blueblood Yankee-WASP dynasty of what we’d now call “the one percent,” and Lyndon Johnson the civil rights president rose through the ranks in the heavily segregationist machine politics of the Southern Democratic establishment.
That’s not to say “vote for the least likely candidate out there, because he’ll turn out to be a stealth democratic socialist!” But there is in fact lots of value in having people on your side who know “the establishment” inside and out.
BruceFromOhio
@Trollhattan: It *WAS* me. Couldn’t you TELL?
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
That was one righteous rant! Me likey.
les
@Aqualad08:
HA back! Edroso reads it so we don’t have to. And mocks the shit out of it. Given the shit Ben reads and trusts, I’m amazed he can breath on his own.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@JustRuss:
Let me guess… They really value your efforts and it’s not an easy decision.
Best of luck moving forward.
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
@Miss Bianca: Yeah I heard a woman from one of their “on the street” interviews on NPR who was agonizing because she though both choices were shitty this year. She flat out said she couldn’t vote for Trump but then said she couldn’t trust Hillary either. The interviewer asked if there was anything Hillary could do to earn her trust and she said, basically, she could confess and apologize and express regret for all the scandals – though the only scandal she mentioned was the email scandal. I’m like, google it dumbass, she already did that! Months, maybe a year, ago! You could look it up! But I guess it’s better to wallow in agony.
Chyron HR
@Reggie Mantle:
Ha ha, you sure showed us.
Shell
See that Trump si still trying to get the ‘Crooked Hillary’ moniker to stick. Not much luck yet.
Miss Bianca
@Chris: QED.
Morat20
I want to go on record with this: Those who consider voting to “heighten the contradictions” are, universally, people who will not actually feel the contradictions. Other people will.
People claiming that don’t vote for “I’m gonna screw myself good and hard as a lesson to myself not to screw myself”. They vote for “I’m going to screw YOU so good and hard you learn not to screw yourself”.
PGFan
Love this.
J R in WV
@Ben:
Secretaries of State do not order drone strikes, in any fashion, with or without cel phones. Anyone who thinks they do isn’t competent to have opinions about realpolitik – at all.
Mnemosyne
@Reggie Mantle:
I know, all these hysterical women, amirite? Why can’t they just shut up and make you a sandwich?
Major Major Major Major
@Morat20: This.
J R in WV
@Ben:
OM FSM That’s just brilliant! You search for Clinton and criminal and are surprised to discover that Google will return 50 million results? After 30 years of Republican investigations that have never resulted in indictments? Fukin brilliant, gomer, brilliant…
ETA: In case you are confused by the above comment, I am saying that you are stupid beyond my capability to express without sarcasm.
JKC
@Cleos: @Ben: Ooh… Fox. That’s a reliable source!
John Cole
@J.: Excellent. Welcome aboard.
Major Major Major Major
@J.: Well now we have to figure out who it was. Hmm.
gvg
I should mention that my elderly very liberal parents are Bernie supporters and they are decidely not racists.
I think they do not hang out online and aren’t getting an 8 year eye opening on how bad racism still is so they have been lulled by Obama’s election which they worked hard for. White privilege does apply.
I also think dad is influenced by years of keeping quiet as a liberal in a conservative environment called defense contracting. He was an engineer and used to come home and rant about how the other guys wouldn’t see the cost effectiveness of social security for instance. Increasing income disparities and a lack of opportunities for others really bother him. His fellows were fiscal conservatives trending libertarian but he was a stubborn quiet liberal for all those decades. so Sanders pitch would appeal to him. I haven’t asked what he thinks of the skimpy plans.
My sister is very liberal in a slightly paranoid way and worked hard for Obama but has turned angry against the whole national party since the NSA spying stuff has come out. She believes it’s more serious than I do. So the non establishment candidate is more suitable for her.
I haven’t heard of anything like those views from the loud portion of the BS supporters but probably their are other reasons to prefer him that aren’t racist. I have heard an awful lot of repeated loud support of Sanders that I do think is racist, or misogynist so I tend to start suspicious of loud Sanders supporters I don’t know. Not fair all the time but based on trends I am seeing. But it is worth keeping in mind that most people don’t pay that much attention and can really be that unaware. People are complicated and there are a lot of them in this country. for hopes sake it is helpful to remember that Obama was elected twice so the racists aren’t the majority. some people even voted against him for reasons that weren’t racist. Of course the reasons probably involved money.
Bernie lost me by blowing off racial concerns. I guess he would be better than Clinton, but I think he would be an ineffective protector because it’s not supposed to happen in his program. I remember thinking Bill the philanderer was a protector of women’s rights anyway because he vetoed several bills that were horrible for women. the personal didn’t equal the political. Don’t think Bernie would be as safe a last line of defense as a Clinton or an Obama would be. Maybe he would learn eventually but he is older than I am and hasn’t yet. I am white but not selfish so that’s one of my moral lines in the sand. Protect minorities.
trnc
To the extent that it might matter to Sanders voters who aren’t sure about Clinton, consider this – she did move to the left some, and I assume Sanders had a lot to do with that (although her own initial supporters probably nudged her over a bit). So clearly, it’s possible to move her in that way. If the diehards walk away now, what’s her incentive to stay there?
It’s going to be Hillary or Deadbeat Donald. There are no other choices. Now there is only the matter of how much better we can get the already better candidate to be.
Please do not make your decision based on insults written by commenters on a blog.
J R in WV
@Major Major Major Major:
Eisenhower was a Republican, Major^4, sorry to dispel your gleam, there…
He followed Truman, a Dem, and was followed by JFK and LBJ, then Nixon/Ford.
Patricia Kayden
Thank you for posting this excerpt, John! This is exactly the message that I hear whenever I come across Progressives shouting loudly that they will not vote for Secretary Clinton. They are clearly saying to me, “I’m privileged. I’m not going to be hurt by a Trump Presidency. To hell with the minorities and women who will be damaged beyond repair by a Trump Presidency. Sucks to be them.”
Just goes to show how many White Progressives haven’t gotten the message that White privilege is not limited to Rightwingers.
Reggie Mantle
@Chyron HR:
If you’re going to constantly lie about what people have said, could you at least do so coherently?
Fermion T. Clown
“… lesser evil …”
Why vote for lesser evil?
Cthulhu for America!
Make America Hate Again!
(er, sorry it seemed apropos, but perhaps I’m missing the point.)
Reggie Mantle
@Mnemosyne:
Yet another strawman. You’re arguing with a voice in your head.
Major Major Major Major
@J R in WV: He was a RINO. IIRC he didn’t even care about party affiliation before running as a Republican because it’d be easier. And he enacted Democratic policies. Non-partisan + liberal policies = we can basically consider him part of the streak.
Major Major Major Major
@Fermion T. Clown: NO LIVES MATTER
gvg
@Reggie Mantle: You know those tomcats that yowl outside peoples windows and then are surprised they get a bucket of water dumped on them? You are like that. Do you realize you are a major reason everyone at this blog is so irritated by “Sander’s supporters”? some people think you are a republican voter disguised as a “disgruntled Sander’s supporter” trying to get different factions of Democrats to fight each other and I can see why. I am addressing you, not generic Sanders supporter, you. You are practically demanding people yell at you. Are you a masochist? We aren’t into that stuff.
D58826
@burnspbesq: For us non-lawyers can you give a quick tutorial
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@shomi:
The Sanders campaign set out to take the white state caucus path, deliberately. Tad Devine is on record stating that. Bernie’s on record as saying the biggest voting bloc is working class whites, and that’s what he focused on. Bernie may not be a racist, but what would you call that approach to running a campaign?
@Patricia Kayden:
The revolution happened with the Obama coalition, and we’re now 8 years into smashing the white supremacist patriarchy as represented by the presidency. The only group melting down about it are whites/males, who refuse to accept it – on the left and right. It’s been a real eye opener.
Mnemosyne
@trnc:
If I may quote a very wise man (though he was referring to the Republicans at the time:
Hillary or Trump. Those are your choices.
Reggie Mantle
@Trollhattan:
Why bother asking? Just call everyone you don’t agree with a sockpuppet of the only person on the face of the earth who doesn’t agree with you. That’ll make you feel better than reality ever will.
redshirt
@Reggie Mantle: What is your point, exactly?
Mnemosyne
@Reggie Mantle:
Me: I’m really sick of Reggie demanding that we hold his hand and talk about his feelings.
You: But what about MMMMEEEEEEE! What about MY FEELINGS?!?!?!
Here’s an idea — stop posting 24/7 about how butthurt you are that your candidate got fewer votes and how we all have to gather around to talk about your hurt feelings and how we need to find you a binky and a juice box and a cookie or else you’re going to hold your breath until you turn blue and kick your heels until we agree to let Bernie be the nominee just to get you to shut up?
Sorry, but I’m immune to tantrums. Too bad your parents weren’t, because they seem to have taught you that the whole fucking world has to grind to a halt because Reggie didn’t get his way.
Reggie Mantle
@redshirt:
The point is, that these constant accusations of sockpuppetry are a particularly absurd attempt to act as if there’s only one “troll”–which a lot of BJers think means “anyone who doesn’t march in lockstep with us”. It’s just stupid.
Reggie Mantle
@Mnemosyne:
Do you ever actually address what someone has actually said without going off on a rant about whatever horrible thing you imagine they’ve said?
Mnemosyne
@Reggie Mantle:
Fix’d. Is this a clinical problem? Do you have a split personality and not realize you’re posting the same comment word-for-word under different names?
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Patricia Kayden:
Very well said, Patricia….
I suspect most Sanders supporters will tack towards Hillary (perhaps after voicing their grievances — much as many PUMAs did in ’08). As for those who vote Trump (or write in Mr. Spock or Rainbow Dash), they’re privileged knuckleheads.
redshirt
@Reggie Mantle: Yeah, I get that. I meant what is your point here? I’ve read a bunch of your comments and have no idea what you believe in or stand for. You’re just constantly berating other posters for this or that.
So, what is your point?
raven
@Reggie Mantle: Fuck you punk.
Mnemosyne
@Reggie Mantle:
I’m sorry, are you now trying to pretend you haven’t spent the last two weeks on the website whining about how mmmmeeeaaaannn Clinton supporters are and warning us all that we need to be nicer to you or you’re going to stay home and watch “Pokemon” reruns instead of voting for Hillary?
D58826
OT but a moment all parents can identify with:
huffingtonpost.com/entry/obama-malia-graduation_us_575b09a4e4b0ced23ca7ff81
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@redshirt:
Whining is the point. I don’t know why anyone pays any attention to him. I just scroll past. I’m just glad my computer doesn’t generate the sound of his whiny voice because I’d end up smashing it with a hammer.
Patricia Kayden
@D58826: Awwww. How sweet. Malia and Sasha have grown up to be lovely young ladies. Hope that we can keep up with them long after they’ve left the White House.
Carolyn Kay
@Major Major Major Major: They’re being fed from the cesspool of right-wing ratf*ckers (bit.ly/224NZrM). Trust me.
les
@redshirt:
@raven: Fuck you punk.
les
@les: How’s that goddam edit thing work again? Or yet?
Patricia Kayden
@trnc:
I cannot imagine anyone with any kind of common sense doing that. Sigh.
Carolyn Kay
@shomi: Um, what’s intellectual about “I’ll break up the banks” (single handedly?), “I’ll give you free healthcare”, or “I’ll pay for your college”?
Hillary is the intellectual (nym.ag/1THUonn).
Major Major Major Major
Oh look, a troll has taken over the thread. I think. Maybe you guys are sharing cat pictures, I can’t tell because of the filter. If you are send ’em my way! Here’s what mine is doing right now.
geg6
@Ben:
LOL! Salon is the equivalent of Drudge these days. Who reads that shit? I suppose HA! Goodman is all over this story.
Miss Bianca
@Major Major Major Major: Kitty-boo! Is that a Russian Blue? They are da bomb.
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
Our oldest cat has recently discovered the sun. Our old apartment got very little direct sunlight. He’s really enjoying it, and his black fur is starting to get red highlights.
Carl W
@Fermion T. Clown: That’s a really impressive campaign site. Makes Baud!2016 seem almost amateur. (I’d still vote for Baud over Cthulhu, though… I think he’d be a lot more fun to go to a bar and have a drink with, and isn’t that the most important quality in a President?)
Mnemosyne
@Miss Bianca:
My late great kitty Boris was half Russian Blue and half Persian. He was the sweetest-tempered cat in the entire world, and I still miss him.
geg6
Amen, sister. I need a cigarette after that.
Reggie Mantle
@raven:
Right back atcha, sweetheart.
PUMA 2016! PUMA FOREVER!
Major Major Major Major
@Miss Bianca: Korat.
@Mnemosyne: Still a Korat. :P
He’s nice, very attached, but he startles easily.
D58826
@Major Major Major Major: They look like they have a better life than some of the trolls on this thread.
geg6
@Ben:
Oh, well..if Freddie the Bore says so, we must all follow.
Jesus, are you for real?
geg6
@Earl:
You have no idea what a sexist pig you sound here, do you?
Omnes Omnibus
@geg6: No, you’ve got it all wrong, Earl is so pro-woman that he is arguing that she secretly ran the show from ’92-’01. Bill was just the frontman.
Reggie Mantle
@Mnemosyne:
Again, you’re just making shit up. Because you know you’re wrong on the real issue here, you have to constantly create new strawmen to rail at.
I’ve been pointing out how counterproductive and divisive this constant RAGH RAGH RAGH BERNIE SUX SO BAD, WHY WON’T HIS FOLLOWERS JUST STFU THEY’RE SO AWFUL THEY GET NOTHING THEY DESERVE NOTHING is. It seems that some front pagers actually agree with that, because they’ve actually posted some fairly level headed assessments of how best to go forward. I believe I’ve posted that I appreciate those.
The fact that you constantly define that as “whining” and “demanding we soothe your fee-fees” is just attempting to deflect attention from your own childish behavior.
BillinGlendaleCA
@John Cole: Welcome aboard? I never got that when I first showed up, I was told to go fuck myself.
Major Major Major Major
@BillinGlendaleCA: Go fuck yourself.
To be fair, maybe Cole’s toning it down for the teenager.
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
I looked up both breeds and though Boris had quite a few Korat characteristics (for one thing, his coat seems to be a few shades darker than the purebred Russian Blue), the personality description of the RB seems to fit better than the Korat.
D58826
On no more bad news for Hillary. Reuters has her up by only 11 against ‘old little hands’.
geg6
@Reggie Mantle:
Personally, I only shit on a select few. Like you. Feel the Bern!
Carolyn Kay
@trnc: I have no doubt that Bernie’s success influenced Hillary to move to the left. I’m very glad he showed Democrats that you can promote populism and be successful. The whole thing has even made Obama bolder. It will be a good thing in the long run. Let’s just concentrate on giving Hillary a Congress she can work with.
Mnemosyne
@Reggie Mantle:
Uh-huh. And this is not about your hurt fee-fees how, again?
I have to admit, it will never stop cracking me up when dudes insist that their obvious hurt feelings are just, like, logical and it’s everyone else who’s being overly emotional.
Reggie Mantle
@gvg:
Bullshit. You were raging at Sanders supporters when I showed up. It’s definitely not all about me. What’s irritating you is that I’ve pointed it out and pushed back against it, which upsets that wingnutesque echo chamber mentality.
Pretty disingenuous when you look back on, for example, Cole’s recent posting history, which is all about stirring up the hate for Sanders and his supporters. Not to mention the constant “fuck them all” responses.
SFAW
@Ben:
As the saying goes, “You keep using that phrase …” and so forth. Was “smug complacency” the phrase-of-the-day on Dictionary,Com or something? Actually, probably not, because the site would have explained what the phrase means.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Major Major Major Major:
I knew I could count on you Major Major Major Major.
Trollhattan
@D58826:
I”ll take double digits. Speaking of which, Clinton’s California margin over Sanders has grown since yesterday, to 12.7%. Must be that “closer than it appears” the senator was speaking of.
Reggie Mantle
@Mnemosyne:
You just go ahead and characterize my pointing out how your rage and hatred hurts your cause in whatever way makes your childishness acceptable to you. None so blind, etc.
I will call you out for lying, though.
Trollhattan
@SFAW:
Misspelling Smaug.
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: Oh, I meant mine :)
Miss Bianca
@gvg: @Mnemosyne: Whiner whines that he’s not whining. It’s all about ethics in Bernie blogging, dammit!
*yawn* Bored now.
SFAW
@Reggie Mantle:
Settle down there, child. I realize it’s late in the day, but maybe you should get your blankie and binky and get tucked in for a nap.
And that suggestion I had a few days ago, re: doing a macro to automate your “You all FUCKING SUCK!” standard comment — if a macro (so to speak) is too hard, maybe you could just have that in a Word file, leave the file open, and just cut-and-paste as many times as you want.
Just trying to save you from carpal tunnel, because I’m compassionate like that.
Aimai
@Mnemosyne: SWOON!
Mnemosyne
@Reggie Mantle:
Awww. Somebody’s cranky and needs a nap.
Though I’ll admit, it’s a little sad that you’re so out of touch with your own emotions that you really seem to have no clue that you’re having an emotional reaction when you post “logical” stuff like what you just wrote.
SFAW
@Trollhattan:
Thansk. Speling is’nt my storng point.
Reggie Mantle
@Miss Bianca:
PUMA 2016! FIGHT THE FUTURE!
Reggie Mantle
@Mnemosyne:
*Rolls eyes*
Whatever.
Mnemosyne
@Reggie Mantle:
Hey, at least now you’ve advanced to being a sullen 12-year-old instead of a screaming 3-year-old. Progress!
Reggie Mantle
@SFAW:
@Mnemosyne:
YOU POSTED THE SAME EXACT THING! SOCK PUPPETS! BUSTED! BUSTED, I SAY!
Miss Bianca
@Reggie Mantle: *yawn* Even more bored now.
Mnemosyne
@Reggie Mantle:
Psst. SFAW is quoting something I posted about an hour ago in this thread. Not like your slip-up the other day when you posted the identical comment under different names within 5 minutes.
Davebo
@Ben: I think you may need to re-read the actually statement because no where does he state that there is a criminal investigation underway.
Of course Fox extrapolates his comments to that. And apparently you swallowed hard.
rikyrah
@Big Ole Hound:
Fat Tony’s death changed everything.
EVERYTHING
Earl
@Omnes Omnibus:
Yeah, Hillary was simultaneously a super hands on first-lady, the first to have an office in the west wing, and the second in Bill’s promise of “two for the price of one” yet bears no responsibility for any decisions! Decisions that she helped sell (viz super-predators). She’s a true-blue progressive, it’s just well hidden. Really well hidden. That’s why, for example, she hid her position on Keystone as long as possible. It’s certainly not that she’s a DLC weathervane.
rikyrah
@amygdala:
If we can get another Democratic President, we can continue down a positive path.
rikyrah
@slag:
I don’t have the luxury of NOT taking Trump at his word.
Reggie Mantle
@Mnemosyne:
Except it wasn’t an identical comment. It was about as similar as your two comments, and about as indicative of sockpuppetry, which is to say not at all.
different-church-lady
@tobie:
I used to think people were as dumb as rocks. I’m now thinking the rocks might actually have the advantage.
Aleta
@different-church-lady: A rock has never dropped a person on its foot.
El Caganer
@Ben: You would rather she ordered them with a letter of marque?
SFAW
@Mnemosyne:
Actually, no — at least, not on purpose.
But Reggie has apparently unearthed our terrible secret — that we’re sockpuppets for each other. And it’s amazing how I can talk to myself like this. It’s all part of the scam.
What confuses me is how I’m able to get from the East Coast to California and back in a matter of seconds. Also how I keep changing sex. Outside of that, it’s completely plausible.
So, the question is: which of us is real, and which is the sockpuppet. Or is it a case of BOTH OF US are sockpuppets of our esteemed blog host?
Tune in tomorrow for the answers to these, and other pressing questions.
And … what about Naomi?
Renie
The explanation on why my Sanders supporting son doesn’t like Hillary is always Kissinger. Drives me insane.
redshirt
I’m convinced now that Reggie’s blog comments will single handedly win Sanders the nomination.
SFAW
@Trollhattan:
Well, that’s because he was looking at the numbers through his (left) side view mirror, and he was just reading that off the glass.
El Caganer
@Aqualad08: That’s not quite true. Roy Edroso reads it so the rest of us don’t have to.
SFAW
@redshirt:
What’s he doing with the other hand?
(You’re welcome.)
dogwood
@Carolyn Kay:
Do you realize how condescending you sound? How nice of Bernie to so graciously help that little lady and the black fellow become better liberals. I hope he keeps it up. He could help Hillarty with her outreach to black and Latino voters. It’s probably too late to really help Barack become a better President, but maybe he could help Barack with his manners, and teach him how to carry himself in a more dignified manner. That would really help him out when he leaves the White House. And thank god Bernie didn’t need to get better from this experience, because what could a woman and a black dude teach to such an awesome white guy like Bernie?
Miss Bianca
Just had to link this post to FB. Made the mistake of reading the comments on a friend’s plea for her “Bernie or Bust-er” pals to get with the program. Blood pressure went up. Then I realized…well…”John Cole has got this”. Thanks, JC!
ETA: Then I got off FB again when I remembered: “Oh, yeah, that’s why I’m not going by there anymore.”
Jack the Second
@Reggie Mantle: Shit, man, I hate to break it to you, the majority of Sanders supporters are going to be happy to vote — and canvas, and campaign — for Clinton, and a good number are going to be more happy the more grief we give you.
Being, you know, an actual active Democrat, hanging out with other Democrats at Democratic events talking about Democratic things in the ol’ real world, I’ve met a lot of ex-Sanders supporters who voted for Sanders and are now excited about Clinton. They’ve been excited about Clinton for a month now, since the primary was called in Clinton’s favor.
They tell stories, and while they were happy to have supported Bernie, and while they liked most of their co-suppporters, … there was always the one guy. Well, more than one guy, especially at large events, but always at least one of those guys creeping around. BELIEVERS. Guys who had fixated on THE REVOLUTION, on BERNIE, on BEATING HILLARY, beyond policy, beyond rationality, beyond beating Republicans in the Fall. Everything was about bringing THE REVOLUTION to FRUITION. About THE CORRUPT DEMOCRAT PARTY.
And you know what? The vast majority of supporters didn’t like That Guy. Turned them off, spoiled the experience.
So no, I don’t think the vast majority of Sanders supporters will mind if we tell That Guy to fuck off while the rest of us do the peewee line of high fives and congratulate each other for a good game and go out for pizza.
Omnes Omnibus
@SFAW: We are all DougJ.
Trollhattan
@Jack the Second:
I like the cut of your jib, sir.
LMS
I have lurked on and off for several years now. But today, I thank you John Cole for almost perfectly expressing what I have been thinking and feeling during the Democratic primaries.
COB
Let’s call Trump what he is – “the D-child”. Never has a major political party presented the nation with such a petulant spoiled brat for President.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@dogwood: Excellent comment.
Bailey
@geg6:
Just out of curiosity, what on earth is sexist about Earl’s comment?
Carolyn Kay
@dogwood: Olive branch snapped, stomped on, burned to a crisp.
Hate all you want, but it’s not going to advance the progressive cause.
Carolyn Kay
@Jack the Second: And I’m betting that some of them were (are) plants from the dark side (bit.ly/224NZrM).
PNW_WarriorWoman
Clinton is “the clear conservative choice,” so sayeth James Kirchick in an op-ed in The Daily Beast titled “Hillary Clinton Is 2016’s Real Conservative—Not Donald Trump.” Kirchick is a hawkish pundit and fellow at Foreign Policy Initiative, a neoconservative think tank where leading neocons Bill Kristol and Robert Kagan sit on the board of directors. What a fascinating election.
Raven Onthill
Well, turns out that Trump supporters are starting to organize into paramilitaries.
Hmmm, guess there’s a difference after all.
Raven Onthill
@Renie: Kissinger is, unfortunately, a very good reason to dislike both Clintons, husband and wife. Why do you not take that objection seriously? Me, I have that and Latin America policy. I have family and friends in Latin America, and I fear for them under a Clinton Latin America policy.
I’ve no doubt that Trump will do as bad or worse, and he has met with Kissinger. But for me it really is a case of a lesser evil.