The true winner of 2016? The grifters. https://t.co/Kp7D6rfDB8
— Wyeth Ruthven (@wyethwire) June 10, 2016
Republicans launch dating site for Trump supporters https://t.co/k4wXDRRecN pic.twitter.com/sWxTEFR0LD
— The Hill (@thehill) June 10, 2016
Speaking of which, this staunch little lad looks like he could use the help…
Uh-huh. pic.twitter.com/hqu0fmR6a5
— Bob Schooley (@Rschooley) June 10, 2016
Next week I'm launching @TrumpDems. Like many Dems, I cannot and will not support @HillaryClinton in November #MAGAhttps://t.co/h1AWSQWLzA
— Harlan Hill (@Harlan) June 3, 2016
Is it just me, or does it seem like Harold Harlan Hill imagines himself as a next-gen Karl Rove to duet with Milo Yiannopoulos‘ next-gen Ann Coulter?
***********
Apart from rolling our eyes at the ratfvckers, what’s on the agenda as we wrap up this hella busy week?
Aqualad08
Harlan Hill has GOT to be Roger Ailes’ version of what a Bernie liberal turned Trump supporter would look and act like. There’s no way he’s real… it’s worse than professional wrestling. What Democratic campaigns does he allege to have strategized for?
Keith G
Jesus, Bow-Tie guy looks like a twenty-year-old Mark Shields. Just took the time to watch Elizabeth Warren’s speech while I was eating breakfast this morning.
Eggs and tears of joy.
sm*t cl*de
It is as if the Stay-Puff marshmallow man from Ghostbusters took to wearing bow-ties.
Baud
@Aqualad08:
::Bows head in shame::
Schlemazel Khan
Mr. Hill has a web page which lets you know he works “by appointment only” but no information about any Dem he is alleged to have consulted for. I have never heard of him before this morning but apparently is yet another gift to liberals from the UK. It seems he started life as a 15 year old peg boy for the British Parliament and has worked his way down to FOX news peg boy pretend liberal.
Amir Khalid
Young Harlan is a 25-year-old political consultant. He started his career in the field at 15. How you can have enough experience and political knowledge at 15 to be worth consulting is a mystery to me.
Chyron HR
I thought Hank’s little fat kid was named Bobby.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Schlemazel Khan: I know people that work “by appointment only” but they provide a much more useful(and pleasurable) service. The price though is probably about the same.
Mary G
He was deleted from Wikipedia? But I found this copy of it?
Harlan Hill (born November 12, 1990) is an American Internet entrepreneur and political consultant from Charleston, South Carolina. He is the CEO of TallyVoting,[1] an American election technology company based in Washington, DC and political consultant.
Contents [hide]
1 Early life and education
2 Political career
2.1 Beginning
2.2 Vic Rawl for US Senate
2.3 NoVoucherTax.org
3 TallyVoting
4 Footnotes
5 External links
Early life and education
Hill is the son of two South Carolina lawyers and was born in Charleston, SC. He spent is summers working in their law firm in Ravenel, SC starting at 5 years old. In 1999, he started his first business, a web design firm. He graduated from Charleston Day School and went on to Porter-Gaud School in Charleston, SC before attending the George Washington University in Washington, DC, focusing on economics and political science.
Political career
Hill has been a consultant to the campaigns of former Washington, DC Mayor, Vince Gray, Congresswoman Gwen Graham, former CEO of the 2012 Democratic Convention, Steve Kerrigan, Congressman Mike Honda, Congressman Seth Moulton, Congresswoman Chellie Pingree, Congresswoman Lois Frankel, Judge Vic Rawl and President of the European Parliament Martin Schulz.
Beginning
Hill started his political career in 2007 working for Bill Wiggin of Leominster and, at the time, the conservative Shadow Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries. Hill was focused on ghost writing and editing Wiggin’s book. The next year, Hill began work on the data and field operation of the Liberal Democrat party in Liverpool, on City Council Member Colin Eldridge’s unsuccessful bid against Luciana Berger for the Liverpool Wavertree seat. In 2009, Hill formed a Washington, DC based political consulting firm, Code & Politics. Hill would go on to consult 26 US Congressional campaigns, Statewide candidates, International races and political parties, Fortune 500 companies and labor unions, including the American Federation of Teachers, Service Employees International Union, the Florida Education Association and the Pennsylvania State Education Association.
Vic Rawl for US Senate
That year, Hill joined Judge Vic Rawl’s bid for US Senate in South Carolina as the campaign’s Digital Director. The campaign made international news when it lost the Democratic primary to Alvin Greene[2] in a surprise upset and unsuccessfully protested the outcome of the race.[3][4][5]
NoVoucherTax.org
Hill received media attention for his work on NoVoucherTax.org. No Voucher Tax was a successful, but controversial campaign to rally conservatives in Pennsylvania against the formerly popular school voucher bill, SB 1.[6] The campaign drove a wedge in the Republican caucus in Harrisburg and public outcry led to SB 1’s defeat in 2011.[7]
TallyVoting
File:TallyVoting DRE.png
TallyVoting DRE Electronic Voting Machine
In May 2014, Hill announced he would begin focusing full-time on the election technology startup, TallyVoting. Tally is transitioning the $34billion election technology industry to a SaaS delivery model.[8] It utilizes a combination proprietary and off the shelf hardware. The business builds a sub $100, ruggedized and fully auditable electronic voting machines for deployment in the elections of developing democracies in Latin America
Frank McCormick
Not Mark Shield. Todd Starnes!
Baud
@Mary G:
She’s a bona fide good Dem.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Even good Dems make bad hires sometimes, HRC once hired Mark Penn. She also learned from her mistakes.
Central Planning
With the power of the internet and the NYS DMV, I was helping my kid register to vote. Apparently the “document number” that is on all driver licenses and permits (since 2014) is not on his permit so he couldn’t register. I guess we’ll have to go old school and fill out a piece of paper.
On the other hand, I did change my party affiliation to Democratic (from none). Whee!
Mustang Bobby
I don’t trust a political consultant that is younger than my car.
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA: Yep. I hope this guy gets blacklisted.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Mustang Bobby: LOL, younger than mine too.
sm*t cl*de
Dude looks almost human. If he was a manservant he could be the Uncanny Valet.
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA: And to be fair, Mark Penn, to my knowledge, never urged people not to support a Democratic candidate.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Maybe he’ll go work at MS like Penn did. Remember the “Screwgoled” ad campaign, pure Penn.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: True, his heart is in the right place, he’s just bad at what he does.
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA: And a slimeball. But a loyal slimeball.
raven
Harlon Hill played for Da Berz.
satby
@Baud: Well played!
BillinGlendaleCA
LOD had Penn on a week or so ago, I’m hoping he’s keeping real busy and far, far, far away from HRC’s campaign.
Schlemazel Khan
@Baud:
That was another of Penn’s mistakes. Had he urged people not to vote for BHO he would have a regular gig on FOX now as one of their go to “Democrats” that trash liberals for money
OzarkHillbilly
So he never graduated. I wonder how many credit hours he accrued? A consultant to 8 different political campaigns. I wonder what he was consulted on? What brand of toilet paper?
Those 2 words are full of pretentious meaning but are actually fairly vacuous.
rikyrah
Good Morning☺, Everyone ?
amk
jeeves, junior ?
also. too. trumpesque punchable mouth.
BillinGlendaleCA
Hmmm, isn’t Mika supposed to get her new truck today?
Baud
@OzarkHillbilly: probably did data entry.
raven
@BillinGlendaleCA: Her new what. . . ?
BillinGlendaleCA
@raven: She had a bet with Barnicle about Trump being the nominee.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Gawd, I’ve done data entry; mind killing.
Schlemazel Khan
@Baud:
Jeeze, you do’t suppose he is the guy that showed up here after the election claiming credit for OFA’s success? That guy had proof because he had a picture of PBO shaking his hand! Those things are as rare as hens teeth
Baud
@Schlemazel Khan: Ha. I wasn’t here then. Sounds like BJ has always attracted a certain cast of characters.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@rikyrah: Good morning! ☕️
raven
@BillinGlendaleCA: snark
germy
@Frank McCormick:
That’s the name I was trying to think of. He’s a young clone of that gentleman.
The bowtie is a nice touch. He really looks like a member of the young college republicans. The bowtie, the combed hair. Young repubs look like little old men.
OzarkHillbilly
@BillinGlendaleCA: That explains the switch to Trump.
NonyNony
I am sure that we will be finding out about low rent Tucker Carlson here in the coming days.
What’s interesting to me is that he’s pre-tanked his own future. Nobody is going to want Trump’s loser stink on them after the fall, and he Fox News Democrats are a dime a dozen – they’ll be able to find someone who supported Clinton but is now disappointed in her by the day after inauguration. And low rent Tucker Carlson’s novelty act will have passed it’s sell by date.
Baud
@NonyNony: Maybe he needs the money now.
EconWatcher
Love the bow tie. Seriously, I’ve only known one bow-tie wearing guy who was not a complete a-hole, and looking back I wonder if I just didn’t know him well enough.
raven
@EconWatcher: Paul Simon
Patricia Kayden
I have a hard time believing that anyone who voted for President Obama (even once) could now turn around and vote for someone as odious and bigoted as Trump. There is nothing attractive about a Trump presidency to someone who appreciates the intelligence, wit and calm of our current Commander-in-Chief. I doubt Harlan was ever an Obama supporter and assume that he’s a Manchin Democrat — someone always at odds with the mainstream of the Democratic Party.
Given how many Republicans have spoken out against Trump based on his lack of qualifications and demeanor, this year we may have more Clinton Republicans than Trump Democrats, or so I hope.
satby
He looks like Karl Rove and Tucker Carlson’s offspring from an unholy union consummated in hell. I hope we don’t have to see him often, but then again I never watch TV news so I should be safe.
Mustang Bobby
@EconWatcher:
Two exceptions: Bill Nye the Science Guy and Mr. Peabody.
satby
@Patricia Kayden: Well, the 30-something male friends of my kids are claiming there’s no difference between Drumpf and Clinton. I wish I could meet Sanders personally to thank him for that. Because that’s where they got it from.
MomSense
That kid looks a bit familiar but maybe it’s just because he looks like a younger version of Shields. We should probably brace ourselves for a lot of voting for Trump instead of Clinton stories.
BillinGlendaleCA
@raven: Did he wear the bow tie when he sang Kodachrome?
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
Yesterday showed why the last 2 months of Sanders’ run (since New York) were so counterproductive.
It prevented Clinton from pivoting and firing her cannons on Trump and it kept powerful weapons Elizabeth Warren, President Obama, and Uncle Joe on the shelve.
If we had spent the last 60 days shelling the republicans it would have put down an important down payment in retaking the House and Senate.
Sanders says he cares about overturning Citizens United and not stroking his own ego, but then he stood in the way, shielding the gop from incoming fire.
It’s like the plot of “Bridge on the River Kwai” come to life (clip)
BillinGlendaleCA
@Mustang Bobby: I’ve been know to sometimes wear a bow tie, then again, I’m sometimes an asshole.
OldLeftyLady
I saw a comment somewhere else; “And the liquor didn’t have my favorite beer so I decided to drink bleach, instead.”
Splitting Image
@EconWatcher:
Opus.
Oh wait. You mean real people.
OzarkHillbilly
@BillinGlendaleCA: Sometimes?
SFAW
@Baud:
True.
Perhaps some enterprising Mainiac can contact her office to find out what young Master Hill did for Ms. Pingree’s campaign?
Wiki also listed Seth Moulton, who seems to be doing a decent job. I think his district is in Anne Laurie’s neck of the woods.
Schlemazel Khan
@germy:
That was an acatul Onion headline! It was something like “Republicans leading among young men that look like old men”
SFAW
@BillinGlendaleCA:
C’mon, man, no need to be modest with us — “sometimes”? (Just bustin’ yer stones. Also, because I don’t think I got to it the other day: Congratulations on your daughter’s graduation!)
ETA: Shakes fist at OzarkHillbilly.
germy
@Schlemazel Khan: I’d forgotten about the onion article. I think it had a photo of a young guy with slicked-down hair and a oldman blazer.
BillinGlendaleCA
@OzarkHillbilly: When I’m not here.
SFAW
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
One hopes he will have his own “Col. Nicholson moment” as I often call it.
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA: Sometimes I feel like my problem is that that I’m not enough of an asshole.
BillinGlendaleCA
@SFAW: Thanks.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: I’m an introvert, so I’m not an asshole to the people I should be an asshole to.
OzarkHillbilly
@BillinGlendaleCA: I’m always an asshole. At least I am consistent.
Schlemazel Khan
@Baud:
I think the guy was pretty young but he had a job with the campaign & was justifiably proud of that. Things were OK until one of the FPs posted a story about how data analytics really were th key to GOtV and winning. He went off on the story as wildly inaccurate because it was he and the team of guys (mostly him) that really won it all. When people, including me suggested he might be wrong he went nuts & as proof of his importance to the campaign he had a picture of himself with Obama!!! Naturally several of us pointed & laughed so he just kept digging deeper & deeper. Every few days he would come back & try to get the last word on that thread & just out of spite I wouldn’t let him have it.
BillinGlendaleCA
@OzarkHillbilly: My niece called me “the meanest man in the whole wide world”.
Schlemazel Khan
@BillinGlendaleCA:
I used to go out of my way to not be an asshole but the last few years with all the shit that has come down on me I have unleashed my inner asshole. The last few months I have been thinking I need to reign it in at work a bit.
Schlemazel Khan
@Schlemazel Khan:
Now that I think of it that thread may have been the start of me unleashing asshole chang to paraphrase JEB?.
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA: I blame my mom. She suppressed my true nature to try to make me into a nice guy.
Just One More Canuck
@satby: If by thanking Sanders, you mean “kick him in the nuts” , then I agree
Splitting Image
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
It won’t make much difference, to be honest. The electoral college will probably screw Trump out of the presidency even if he runs a good campaign, and he probably isn’t going to.
On the other hand, the same states that Clinton needs to win are the same states where the Democrats need to turn out the vote to retake the Senate: Pennsylvania, Florida, New Hampshire, Ohio, Wisconsin, North Carolina, Nevada. Several of them are also key to retaking the House. Ohio and Pennsylvania are gerrymandered to hell and the Democrats can pick up 10 or 15 seats by winning big there, but they have to win big across the states, not just ride the big cities to a win in the statewide vote. It’s a tall order, but if they do it, then Trump just won’t be a factor this fall.
In other words, what the Democrats need to do has been obvious since the beginning of the year and the extended primary hasn’t changed the calculus much. On the other hand, you can argue that it hasn’t done any good either, since the main benefit of a prolonged primary is that the GOTV efforts in late states may help in November. (Indiana and North Carolina in 2008, for example) Unfortunately, the last swing state to vote was Pennsylvania in April and none of the more recent primaries will probably affect the November vote much. On the gripping hand, Rand Paul is up for re-election and organizing the Kentucky vote in May might have helped efforts to take him out. If that shitstain goes down, I’ll be happy to give Sanders a medal.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: That’s what Freud said.
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: No worries there, trust me.
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA: I don’t think he ever met my mother.
Baud
@OzarkHillbilly: You’re too kind.
dedc79
Anyone encountered any jill stein supporters yet? From what ive seen so far, they’re like Sanders diehards but on acid.
Kay
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
Nah. No one pays attention until June. It’s perfect. They hit him on something no Republican will defend which is the judge attack.
There are no Republican electeds defending Trump. Kasich flipped the whole “establishment” theme on its head yesterday. Kasich asked why he should support someone he fundamentally disagrees with, on just about everything. TRUMP is now insisting people have to be loyal Republicans and get in line. Kasich is the maverick.
He had no plan past the primary. He can’t even decide if he’s running as an outsider or a loyal Republican. His operatives vacillate between saying they don’t need the establishment and whining that the establishment isn’t supporting them.
Republicans now have to defend this and there are hundreds like this. Thousands if you count the hourly people he stiffed on overtime and minimum wage:
These aren’t big contractors. They’re small businesses. It’s almost like they hire smaller contractors because they know small outfits don’t have the resources to go after them and get paid.
Baud
@dedc79: There was an article before the California primary about how Sanders was tapping into the Jill Stein supporters and hurting the Green Party. So a lot of the people who are the most aggravating may never have been Dems and were always ungettable.
Baud
The Atlantic
debbie
@Baud:
I heard yesterday that they did this for the down-ticket races. I suppose it could work, providing you keep your voters in a giant bubble until November.
dedc79
@Baud: interesting. To the extent I’ve interacted with them, her supporters (and some of the sanders diehards) appear to be the kind of people who still think voting for Nader in 2000 was the right move. If they were never Dems to begin with, I’m a lot less worried about Hillary not getting their support
Baud
@debbie: The GOP has always been able to rely on their voters remaining in the bubble. But that was with respect to Democrats. I’m not sure how well it will work against their own nominee.
OzarkHillbilly
@BillinGlendaleCA: You should be proud.
Matt McIrvin
@Splitting Image: Any benefit Clinton gets from the Electoral College is probably extremely slight. If Trump’s map looks bad, it’s just because he’s behind nationally. Sam Wang’s Meta-Margin, measuring how far the vote would have to swing for the EV to flip, is not far off from Clinton’s margin in current national polls–right now, it’s actually smaller, though that’s probably because Clinton’s numbers are rising and the state poll aggregates inherently have a time lag.
Baud
@dedc79: I don’t know what the percentages are, but given polls that say that most Sanders supporters will back Hillary, I’m not too concerned right now about the people who will continue to hold out.
ETA: I’m more concerned about a small minority being disruptive at the convention and drowning out our message.
Kay
@Baud:
They’re in a terrible fix. They have this loose cannon rolling around and all they can do is release these boring “THIS is the GOP” dispatches that no one will read.
The House and Senate Republicans voted to fast track TPP. The biggest (I would argue ONLY) winner on TPP is agriculture. Agriculture is firmly behind it, because we opened US markets to ag imports and other countries kept barriers up to US exports. They can’t compete without TPP. Agriculture is (primarily) a GOP lobby, especially in the Senate. Now they have to stand with Trump while he rants about a trade deal they all backed and a trade deal that ag states all support.
Not that Donald Trump cares. He has no clue about any of this.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
Roll tide, roll
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: Fuck you.
Baud
@Kay:
Ain’t it grand?
Matt McIrvin
@dedc79: As I’ve said before, the Bernie-or-Busters I actually know who are refusing to support Clinton were either Jill Stein or Ron Paul supporters in 2012. They were not going to vote for anyone the Democratic Party was likely to nominate. One is a real burn-the-country-down-for-the-revolution type.
Baud
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
Hahahaha. I can just see Obama’s Outlook calendar blocked out for the month of October for “ass-kicking.”
Baud
@Kay:
BTW, I know you oppose the TPP, but this
makes the whole endeavor worth it to me. I wonder how they’ll actually vote.
Matt McIrvin
I do think it’s possible that some fraction of white men who voted for Obama in either ’08 or ’12 will switch out of pure sexism/Hillary-hate, and they’re more likely to switch to Trump than to some third-party candidate. Those guys could be enough to flip one or more of the big swing states like Pennsylvania, which is a worry.
Over on John Scalzi’s thread on Tuesday’s primary, there are so many Sanders supporters saying “I won’t vote for Clinton, but I live in deep-blue California, so it’s OK” that I started worrying about Trump carrying California.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@Baud: ?!?
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud:
I was convinced of that a long time ago because all the Bernie supporters I know understand what is at stake here.
Cermet
@Baud: LOL; very good point! Go President Obama! Get Hillary into Office – this isn’t gonna be another Gore mistake.
NotMax
Proud graduate of the Tucker Carlson Institute of Fashion
Magna cum dowdy..
Kay
@Baud:
The problem is Donald Trump doesn’t know what he’s talking about. He doesn’t understand all these different interests. Montana really ISN’T like Las Vegas or New York City- the Cattlemen’s Association will be pro-TPP. Hell, New York STATE is huge in agriculture. I think NY is 2 or 3 in apples. Look at the apples in your grocery store, where they come from. Half of them are imports. They want to export NY apples and TPP will allow them to do that. They have to. Agriculture is the ultimate in “place based”. The whole asset is the ground. They can’t export production to China.
Cermet
@Matt McIrvin: Not a chance California switches – no way in hell. As for Pennsylvania, President Obama will help there a great deal so unlikely that will be a lose – close, maybe but will go for Hillary. Florida and Ohio are the two critical states. If she wins these and its looks favorable – game over for the Rump.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
The
JohnsonObama TreatmentBillinGlendaleCA
@OzarkHillbilly: It’s a really funny story. I took the kid and the niece to Costco, keep in mind the kids didn’t have cell phones. We were in the checkout line and the kid(then 15) wanted to look at candy, I said OK. A couple of minutes later the niece(then 9) wants to go looking for her cousin, I tell her no. So she called me “the Meanest Man in the Whole Wide World”. The lady ahead of us in line had heard the conversation, and said “No he’s not”.
Iowa Old Lady
After W left office, someone said it was like we’d conducted an experiment to see if it mattered whether the president was smart, and it turned out it did. You can’t just rely on advisers to govern. With Trump, we’re apparently trying to decided if it matters whether the president knows anything about how the government works.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Kay: The entertainment and IT sector is getting killed in Asia by their loose enforcement of IP.
amk
@Matt McIrvin: If you doubt CA, you might as well crown the deadbeat the prez right now. Jeez.
debbie
@Iowa Old Lady:
Turned out to be a bad idea for Reagan, too.
D58826
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: And Bernie repayed all of the flattery by talking about what he would do as President in his DC speech last light. The winding down is going to take a long time
amk
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: So, the dem establishment, right from top to bottom, has shown the courtesy to the loser. Let’s see if he gracious enough to return it.
Reggie Mantle
Hillary’s having trouble getting young women fired up:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/10/politics/hillary-clinton-women-generational-divide/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn
Maybe if you yell at them and tell them how much you hate them and the candidate they backed, they’ll come around.
BillinGlendaleCA
@amk: Yup, CA will not be in play; no matter what Trump thinks.
raven
@BillinGlendaleCA: Paul
amk
@BillinGlendaleCA:
The dems had what, 3 x rethugs turnout just last week?
There is worrying and then there is outright pessimism.
Chyron HR
@Reggie Mantle:
Morning, Reg. LOVE the bow-tie.
Kay
@amk:
Well, they more than showed courtesy. They said over and over that he brought in voters and focused on issues that needed to be at the forefront. Clinton, Obama, Warren. That’s what they said. My assumption would be they meant it.
This idea that they’re reluctantly extending a grudging olive branch to millions of voters doesn’t really fit the reality. It isn’t “Bernie Sanders”. It’s his voters.
Reggie Mantle
@Kay:
Yes. I believe they did.
Baud
@Kay:
Reality left town a long time ago.
amk
@Chyron HR: lulz.
OzarkHillbilly
@BillinGlendaleCA: The states that are NOT in play get Hillary to 240 in the electoral college. Trump has to run the table to win. Hillary has about a half dozen different ways to win.
BillinGlendaleCA
@raven: (I knew which Paul Simon you were talking about, just being silly.)
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@OzarkHillbilly: Do you think she can do it despite this:
/snark
OzarkHillbilly
@Kay:
I wonder if Bernie knows that.
SFAW
@Reggie Mantle:
Good to see that you’re taking up the slack, now that Racist Hump got banned (yet again). I was worried that we’d lose the all-important “No way I’d ever vote for Hitlary, even if I’ve said otherwise — Preznit Trump!! Woo-hooo!” demographic.
Kay
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Okay. I don’t believe in “enforcement” of trade deals. US regulators have enough trouble regulating within the US.
“Trade enforcement” is endless meetings and adjudications and warnings over years because a trade sanction with any teeth (something other than a fine) is a hostile action and has repercussions for US multinationals and foreign policy. It’s like attacking another country. What we did to Iran was an economic sanction- trade. It’s the economic equivalent of war. It’s a trigger that never gets pulled, and everyone involved knows it.
The US will never impose what amount to economic sanctions on these countries. Part of the reason they won’t do that is “US companies” aren’t “US companies”- they’re multi-nationals.
I would be okay with trade deals if free traders would admit that, but they won’t. They have to do this song and dance about the trigger they have that they will never, ever pull.
JPL
@OzarkHillbilly: I think that Jane and Bernie want to campaign. They enjoyed the crowds, and as long as Hillary lets him preach on the campaign trail, he’ll be fine.
PurpleGirl
Harlan Hill looks like a Young Fogee, and a young upper class twit. Vedy, vedy proper twit.
NotMax
Zero response when mentioned, but still find it exciting that the week included the addition of 4 – count ’em, 4 – new elements to the periodic table.
Kay
@OzarkHillbilly:
Why would I care, if I’m President Obama? I have my own agenda if I’m President Obama and it’s “voters”
Clinton is doing outreach to moderate Republicans. She’s not after Jeb Bush or John Kasich. Votes are the coin of the realm and Sanders got those. It’s all that matters.
D58826
@JPL: As long as they are preaching from the same hymnal that Hillary is preaching from, then fine. But if Bernie wants to continue preaching that his hymnal is better than anyone else’s it could create a problem.
JPL
@BillinGlendaleCA: I read that Trump will campaign in California, because the anti-Trump demonstrations hurt the democrats.
Chyron HR
@NotMax:
Oh, so they artificially created new elements but the elements rapidly broke down before anyone could see them? How CONVENIENT.
D58826
@Kay:
And now he has to work to deliver them. For a lot of his voters it seems that they need him to validate the idea that it’s ok to vote for Hillary. That they are not betraying the revolution by doing so. That Hillary will move the revolution forward, even if not as fast as Bernie would have. If he doesn’t do that, I’m not sure any amount of Hillary/Obama outreach will help.
raven
@BillinGlendaleCA: me too
BillinGlendaleCA
@JPL: Trump thinks he can win in CA, Trump is wrong.
Baud
@D58826: I don’t know. Most of his voters aren’t the dead-enders that people complain about.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
Interesting photo of a young Bernie Sanders – his looks haven’t changed that much (photo)
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@D58826: I believe you have diagnosed the problem correctly, and agree.
Reggie Mantle
@Kay:
THERE ya go. THAT’s what I’m talking about.
Reggie Mantle
@D58826:
Shun the heretics! SHUN! SHUNNNNNN!
Patricia Kayden
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Wow. Things have changed dramatically since 2014 when Democratic politicians were running away from President Obama and openly disparaging him in sometimes vain attempts to win seats. I’m glad that Secretary Clinton is not making the same mistake which cost Al Gore the presidency in 2000 when he ran away from President Clinton.
OzarkHillbilly
@Kay:
As long as the votes were forthcoming, and they will be, you wouldn’t. I was merely referring to what appeared to be Bernie’s succumbing to a Messiah complex and his apparent anger that most Dems didn’t see how he was going to rescue all of us and then lashing out at the Dem party’s “rigged system” in wholly contradictory ways because of that.
@JPL: If I were of the nature to do public speaking, I’m fairly certain I too would fall in love with standing in front of thousands of adoring people hanging on my every utterance. I think most politicians do.
D58826
@Baud: I hope your right. I know the Baud voters are on board but a bit of overkill from Bernie won’t hurt. The deadenders are just that deadenders.
Kay
@Reggie Mantle:
The List is the thing- the names- and Sanders has a big list. His list has not just voters but small donors and they’re the gold standard of lists. I once did a canvass for Sherrod Brown + Obama that was just small donors. They’re more engaged than 99% of people. The 1% :)
C. Isaac
So, that sad sound, like a football slowly deflating, is the hopes and dreams of a Hillary indictment from the right. This was published in the WSJ today (sorry about the paywall):
http://www.wsj.com/articles/clinton-emails-in-probe-dealt-with-planned-drone-strikes-1465509863
To Quote:
“State Department officials told FBI investigators they communicated via the less-secure system on a few instances, according to congressional and law-enforcement officials. It happened when decisions about imminent strikes had to be relayed fast and the U.S. diplomats in Pakistan or Washington didn’t have ready access to a more-secure system, either because it was night or they were traveling.
Several law-enforcement officials said they don’t expect any criminal charges to be filed as a result of the investigation, although a final review of the evidence will be made only after an expected FBI interview with Mrs. Clinton this summer.
One reason is that government workers at several agencies, including the departments of Defense, Justice and State, have occasionally resorted to the low-side system to give each other notice about sensitive but fast-moving events, according to one law-enforcement official.”
TL;DR version — Turf war between State and CIA. State demanded to be informed of drone strikes BEFORE they happened. Official secure system took SEVEN HOURS to send emails, making the info old news. Often by the time the emails could have been obtained if they leaked, the drone strike would already be all over the Pakistani nightly news (so not exactly classified anymore).
A big ol’ whopping helping of nothingburger.
Baud
@Kay:
The Atlantic today
Baud
@C. Isaac:
Lordy.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@Reggie Mantle: Until we see how this plays out, some folks are skeptical of what Bernie will do to help bring his most ardent followers to support Hillary and other Dems. Many of the hardcore supporters believe that Hillary and the Democratic party ( you know the national infrastructure we have to beat Republicans) are evil incarnate and must be overthrown to move forward. As has been pointed out by Kay, Obama and Clinton and Warren have all said they will work to get those votes. But, some folks are not reachable from that direction, and will need Bernie to help convince them. That’s not shunning that’s Bernie working along side the others to get it done, isn’t that what you say you want ?
D58826
@C. Isaac: Just from a political point of view, I find it impossible to believe that if there was even a remote possibility of an indictment that would have been communicated to the WH long before this. Not because Obama would try to stop the investigation but because an indictment this late in the game would be political devastating. Not just to Hillary and the democrats but the entire political process. Distrust and cynicism of and about the system are hig enough.
Matt McIrvin
@amk: Sorry, it was a joke.
Reggie Mantle
@Baud:
Key word there is “some”. That could mean, like, two. The vast majority of people aren’t going to bother, because that’s how people are.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
Oh bullshit.
Susan Sarandon guarantees an indictment is inevitable.
D58826
@Baud:
I hope the system used to launch the nuclear missiles moves a bit faster. And certainty begs the question of why in 2016 it still takes 7 hours. At that rate might as well go back to using the Pony Express.
hedgehog mobile
@sm*t cl*de: *bows in admiration*
C. Isaac
@D58826:
I’m pretty sure it’s one of those instances where, if there was any real chance of an indictment, that many months ago prosecutors would have had a private conversation with Secretary Clinton saying ‘for the good of the nation, you should probably withdraw’ and then offering a sweetheart plea deal if she did.
I’m cynical enough to believe something like that could happen with someone in the political class.
Reggie Mantle
@C. Isaac:
I’ve been hearing “Hillary’s gonna go to jail! Real soon now!” since 1992. Berniac that I am, even *I* know that’s not gonna happen.
There’s a lot of blather about the Espionage Act, which should go away if anyone claiming she should be indicted for that would actually read the damn thing and notice that it requires “an intent to harm the United States or aid its enemies.” Whatever my problems with Hillary Clinton, I don’t think she ever had that intent. Subsection (f), I think it si (I’m quoting from memory here) punished for “gross negligence” but that’s a WAY higher standard than most people think.
Kay
@Baud:
I feel like you guys are over-stating this, in the sense that people always “want off” lists. It just isn’t that earth-shattering. The List is the national equivalent of someone who knows someone else. It’s no more complicated than that.
I was asked yesterday to contact the daughter of a ct of appeals judge on behalf of a ct of appeals hopeful because I know her. I helped with her father’s campaign (he’s deceased) and he was loved by liberals. My guy is a liberal. She will completely understand this and I will completely understand if she’s supporting one of the other two “Democrats” (judges run nonpartisan but we know what they are). If she says “no” (in a nice way, she will) she’s off the list.
Reggie Mantle
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
LOL. Not only is she not a prosecutor, I can’t remember if she’s ever even played one.
Baud
@Reggie Mantle:
@Kay:
Agree. I think the bigger question is what Bernie decides to do with his list.
D58826
@C. Isaac: Yep. I agree. The domestic political stakes far outweigh any security risk the e-mails/server might have posed. She could have dropped out for reasons of health, spend more time with her family, etc. I suspect that seeing her presidential ambitions shutdown would be far more of a punishment than anything the prosecutors could do.
amk
@D58826:
You mean the one that still uses floppy disks?
Loviatar
I’ve had the following confirmed as a result of the 2016 Republican primary.
– 1/3 of the Republican base are racist.
– 1/3 of the Republican base while they may not be personally racist will willing support a racist (does that make them semi-racist).
– 1/3 of the Republican base is shitting their pants because it is now public knowledge that 2/3 of their party are racist or are willing to support a racist.
Yet I’ve not seen this basic analysis anywhere in the press. Donald Trump won the Republican primary using racist messaging. He consistently garnered approximately 1/3 of the Republican primary voters in state after state. Once he became the presumptive nominee, another 1/3 of the Republican base immediately coalesced behind him despite his racist messaging. The final 1/3 is complaining not about his racist messaging, but about that fact that he is saying it in plain english and so tarnishing their beloved party.
Guys the secrets out, any sentient knows you’re the party of the racist, now we just need to get the non-sentient (the press) to clue in
rikyrah
@satby:
BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA H AH
C. Isaac
@Reggie Mantle:
There’s simply no “there” there. At worst they get some minor procedural violations, none of which are criminal, and opening the can of worms too far means arguing against having any governmental oversight of CIA drone strike requests (which was the whole point of having them emailed to State, to have even the vaguest amount of oversight) — a position I find abhorrent as I’m sure many other progressives do.
In the end, the CIA will say what it usually does; nothing. The FBI will shrug, interview Clinton one last time, and then declare it over. The GOP will be left looking like idiots and any further hearings/investigations will be treated as the giant waste of time they are.
If they want to beat Mrs. Clinton, it’ll be at the ballot box.
Kay
@C. Isaac:
I love my daughter on “the server” because I bet there are a lot of people like her. They lost her at “server” :)
She’s like “oh, a SERVER thing – I;m not interested in THOSE” They consistently over-state the average person’s level of engagement. She’s really busy and “politics” isn’t her main thing. She has to narrow this flood of info and BS or she’d drown.
Baud
@D58826: I assume the emails are encrypted by hand by child laborers in Cambodia.
rikyrah
@Kay:
These stories are very important. They are building the narrative about him, as much as those early stories about Willard built the narrative about him.
They need to come on, one by one, daily, drip drip drip.
Paper cut by paper cut.
This is defining the narrative.
Let’s keep it going.
Baud
@rikyrah: @satby:
I agree with rikyrah.
D58826
@amk: Funny. many years ago I was given a tour of the engineering model of the PHILCO 212 computer system. (google it). It was designed in 1964, had 32k of memory and no disks. All external storage was on 32 tapes. They were very proud that NORAD was using the same type of machine in Cheyenne Mountain Complex as part of the early warning system against Soviet missiles. I decided not to ask if the NORAD computers included the que tips in the enable button on the engineering model tape drives. Figured I’s sleep better not knowing.
OzarkHillbilly
@Loviatar: And yet they will still garner 45-47% of the vote. Tells you all you need to know about America.
SFAW
@Reggie Mantle:
Thanks.
raven
@OzarkHillbilly:Lawrence of Arabia No Prisoners (1962) HD
Kay
@rikyrah:
I think Trump knows it. I believe he went after that judge to distract from Trump U. It just massively back-fired. This is worse than Trump U. This is what Obama calls “the guys in the hard hats”.
I hope Paul Begala runs this part. He understood how to attack Romney.
On another note, how fucking disgusting is it that Trump and his family are running around living large while they’re stiffing The Paint Spot for 30,000 dollars? Thirty thousand dollars to a small business is one whole employee for a year. Ivanka spends that on clothes.
The Trumps deserve to be exposed. It’s the height of arrogance to believe they could pull this con thru a Presidential race.
gogol's wife
I just took the time to watch Warren’s speech. Wow! My cats are startled by my bursting into applause every few moments.
Give ’em hell, Liz!!!!!
Reggie Mantle
@C. Isaac:
When the IG’s report came out detailing that Clinton had “violated State Department policy” I just turned to my wife and remarked “Well, guess the State Department’ll have to let her go, then.”
I do disagree that the Republicans will ever let this go, though. Even after the last investigation is dead, buried, and food for worms, it’ll be a talking point that “she lied about the e-mails”. And the people using it won’t have any idea of the whole story. It’ll just be a catch phrase they drop into conversation.
rikyrah
@Baud:
I could see why this would be a good ‘get’.
Kay
@gogol’s wife:
I like her but I actually thought Biden’s was better because it was regretful and serious. He raised the issue of Trump trying to influence a court case, civil litigation that has no national import or relevance WHILE running for President.
This is a big problem. His seriousness was alarming because he’s so easy-going. My husband’s a lawyer and he was smiling at Warren’s attack but he stopped and listened to Biden- actually moved closer. Donald Trump can’t do this. He can’t use the Presidency to threaten judges who are reviewing his business interests.
Betty Cracker
@gogol’s wife: I had much the same reaction when I watched it a little while ago. I particularly love how she linked Trump’s bigoted attacks on the judge in his Scam U case to the overall Republican plot to weaken and degrade the judicial branch. Make those mofos own their Frankenstein monster!
rikyrah
@Loviatar:
Nope.
instead, you’ve seen a steady stream of articles doing all they could to dance around this point.
I find it amusing myself.
Trying to explain to the non-Whites of this country why what we heard, wasn’t what we heard.
Uh huh.
Uh huh.
Jeffro
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Boy has she – check THIS out: http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/trackers/2016-06-10/clinton-hires-sanders-s-director-of-student-organizing-politico
Awesome move, Hillz!!!
dogwood
@D58826:
Polling suggests that Clinton already has over 70% of his voters, so I don’t think these Sanders voters are that big of a problem. Some of the hold outs will hold out until people stop paying attention to them. A share are professional Clinton haters and non dems who will go elsewhere. I’m sure the Clinton team will do their best to reach out, but we shouldn’t forget that the majority of democratic voters haven’t voted yet. Those voters are just as important. Despite what the Sanders people say, 12 million votes isn’t half of the Democratic Party; it wasn’t even half of the primary electorate.
D58826
@Kay: In a sane world the final election results on Nov. 9th would be:
Hillary = 52%
Road Runner = 20%
Anybody but Trump 27.9%
Trump and his hangers on = .1%
C. Isaac
@Reggie Mantle:
I can certainly see that being the case. Living in Texas, there’s a fair amount of the conservative mindset I get surrounded by. A fair number of them are very, very tenacious when it comes to what they believe about something. Once something is ‘conventional wisdom’, that’s the God’s honest truth until judgment day.
Cermet
@Reggie Mantle: On Fake News … I mean Fox news an ex-federal prosecutor, no less, even stated forcibly that he could NEVER get an indictment since there is zero proof that Hillary intended to break the rules to act criminally. This was fox news! No, this is a dead issue even as the thugs led by a Rump claim otherwise. Even Sanders supporters try this stupid line and it just goes to prove – Hillary is the most vetted person in existence – period.
Jeffro
@rikyrah:
This too! http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/trackers/2016-06-10/clinton-hires-sanders-s-director-of-student-organizing-politico
Hiring Sanders’ director of student organizing? Sounds like about eight different kinds of awesome. I wonder if she is taking 11-dimensional chess tips from PBO?
Gin & Tonic
@rikyrah: Don’t have a link, but the cover of the NY Daily News two days ago showed Ryan and Trump and a headline “I’m With Racist”.
amk
@Kay: It was a well orchestrated twofer from Warren and Biden.
rikyrah
@Kay:
Trump U, if I read correctly, could be considered a RICO case…am I wrong about that?
I disagreed with the dude from TPM who said that attacking the judge was brilliant distraction for Trump.
Uh uh uh
It was momentary distraction, and, all the while, there is some reporter, somewhere, digging through the sealed documents that the judge released. There are a whole lot of ads in those released documents.
And, he will probably attack the judge a few more times.
And, then, people will say, ‘ that’s all you got?’
But, the ads are there. They are there in his ‘business’ practices. Attack that. Destroy the ‘ he’s a great businessman’ persona, and that’s his destruction.
Just ad after ad from all the ‘little guys’ that were stiffed.
One…two……you could say it’s an aberration.
But, hundreds….it’s a pattern. Accept what the pattern tells you.
D58826
@amk: It was a totally well organized day from Bernie walking into the WH to Warren on Maddow. Choreographed like a Fred and Ginger dance routine.
amk
@Jeffro: Very smart move.
Gin & Tonic
CNN headline showing up in my Google News feed: “Democrats united behind Clinton, GOP divided on Trump”
That’s really nice to see.
rikyrah
@Kay:
I liked Warren’s because, she explained, as she usually does, in the way that she uses language, that the Judge, who is bound by the ethical standards that he follows, can’t comment on the unwarranted attacks on him by Trump. I thought that was very important to get out.
But, I enjoyed both.
We don’t have to do either/or…we can do both/and…in terms of attacks and styles of attacks. We are that blessed in this instance.
Jeffro
@D58826: More like
Trump 27% (but of course)
Every other third party, combined 2%
Clinton 71%
rikyrah
Kay, for you:
Quick Takes: Trump’s Actual Business Record
by Nancy LeTourneau June 9, 2016 5:11 PM
POLITICAL ANIMAL BLOG
* For anyone still under the illusion that Donald Trump’s business record is his greatest selling point as a presidential candidate, Steve Reilly pretty much tears through that myth.
At least 60 lawsuits, along with hundreds of liens, judgments, and other government filings reviewed by the USA TODAY NETWORK, document people who have accused Trump and his businesses of failing to pay them for their work. Among them: a dishwasher in Florida. A glass company in New Jersey. A carpet company. A plumber. Painters. Forty-eight waiters. Dozens of bartenders and other hourly workers at his resorts and clubs, coast to coast. Real estate brokers who sold his properties. And, ironically, several law firms that once represented him in these suits and others.
Trump’s companies have also been cited for 24 violations of the Fair Labor Standards Act since 2005 for failing to pay overtime or minimum wage, according to U.S. Department of Labor data…
In addition to the lawsuits, the review found more than 200 mechanic’s liens — filed by contractors and employees against Trump, his companies or his properties claiming they were owed money for their work — since the 1980s…
The actions in total paint a portrait of Trump’s sprawling organization frequently failing to pay small businesses and individuals, then sometimes tying them up in court and other negotiations for years. In some cases, the Trump teams financially overpower and outlast much smaller opponents, draining their resources. Some just give up the fight, or settle for less; some have ended up in bankruptcy or out of business altogether.
……………………………………….
I know it’s sort of cruel to put these folks on film, but I want ads from the ones who had to go out of business because of Trump. …
Jeffro
@D58826:
It was amazing, it was outstanding, it was a political artillery barrage that didn’t let up all day long.
I honestly wish I had tuned in to Fox News, just to see how hard they were trying to spin Sanders essentially admitting it’s over and noting he’ll be working hard to beat Trump, Obama being gracious to Sanders while wholeheartedly endorsing Hillary, Biden endorsing Hillary and hitting Trump, and Warren giving Trump the mother of all beat downs (while also thwacking McConnell and Ryan for good measure)
And that’s without even bringing in “Hellfire” Harry Reid and Nancy Smash off the bench…
Betty Cracker
@rikyrah: I haven’t watched Biden’s speech yet but will just as soon as I get the chance. Warren’s was a straight-up barn-burner. Even my disgruntled Bern-feeler hubby was totally impressed.
D58826
@Jeffro: As Charles Pierce has said repeatedly when Bill Clinton is number 4 on your surrogate depth chart, you are in pretty good shape,
Gelfling545
@Mustang Bobby: And The Doctor, of course.
D58826
@Betty Cracker: If we could only Vulcan mind meld the fiery Elizabeth with the tenacious Hillary – awsome
Loviatar
@Gin & Tonic:
The New York tabloids are known for outrageous covers (Headless Body in Topless Bar) so the Daily News’ cover is not taken as serious analysis. Where are the MSNBC, CNN, NYT, WSJ, Bloomberg, etc analysis on this point. 2/3 of the Republican base either voted for or will willing support a blatant racist.
Paul Ryan: Trump’s comments about judge are ‘textbook’ racism
amk
@C. Isaac: @Reggie Mantle: Very informative discussion. Thanks.
amk
@D58826: Yup. Compare this with the rethugs falling all over the place over the deadbeat donald.
Kay
@rikyrah:
“Let’s run for President! No one will ever look at our phony ’empire’!”
I don’t know- is this the definition of “privilege” or what?
I keep thinking about the Washington Post’s exhaustive review of Obama’s home mortgage. 1000 words to “uncover” he has a big mortgage on a big, expensive house, and really good credit. I read the whole thing because I thought “there has to be something here, right?” Nope.
The Trumps thought there would be no due diligence. They could just move into the White House like checking into a hotel. That’s what privilege is to me- the assumption that no one will ever question your rightful place among the elite.
SFAW
@Reggie Mantle:
Unfortunately, you’re probably right. I expect that can be countered effectively by hammering on the “Alleged billionaire Deadbeat Donald Trump has, for most of his career, stiffed the small businesses he hired to work on his developments” meme. Doesn’t put the lie to the e-mail claims, but it puts Deadbeat Donnie on the defensive enough that eventually, the MSM will turn in their knee pads, and start writing about it.
Oh, who am I kidding? The MSM will just pull a “both sides do it” somehow.
Chris
@Loviatar:
This.
But it’s slightly more complex; half of it is “it is now public knowledge,” but the other half is “how am I supposed to deny this now?” – including and maybe especially to themselves. Loads and loads of Republicans have a stupendous amount of self-image invested in the notion that they’re Not Racist and that their party and movement is Not Racist. They have a nice, quaint, fifty-year-old, flanderized picture in their head of what The Real Racists look like, and are secure in the knowledge that because they don’t fit the caricature, they’re the good guys. And any suggestion to the contrary is just left-wing slander.
Now, Trump has whipped up so many Republican voters so fast into sounding and acting too much like their caricature of The Real Racists that the illusion broke. It’s temporary; they’ll readjust their self-image and rationalizations in order to fit the square peg of “I’m still voting for The Tribe” into the round hole of “but I’m still not a racist” (in fact, most of them are doing that right now). But in the meantime, the shock was real.
Gin & Tonic
@Loviatar: Of course the NYDN isn’t serious analysis. I’ve lived there, I know all about it. But it’s a useful barometer, and sometimes really captures the zeitgeist (i.e. “Ford to City: Drop Dead”)
amk
poc a trumpus. LOL.
Kay
@rikyrah:
We had a “labor” candidate for the state legislature here. I was his volunteer treasurer. He was a little rough but I was so grateful to him for running because he didn’t have a chance in hell. He came to us to confess to a ten year old (minor) criminal charge- one step above a traffic ticket- it doesn’t even get a number, it’s not a first or second degree, it’s a “minor”. He was really scared that we would feel he had screwed us with this thing when really no one would go after him because he’s not a threat. That’s the opposite of “privilege”. He assumes he will be 1. found out, and 2. treated harshly.
Jeffro
@Chris:
I have a funny feeling that we’re going to start seeing some ads that help that last third walk back their reflexive support of the GOP and start to think about what principled conservatives should do this election. We on the left may not be crazy about pitches to the middle and/or conservatives, but it would be very, very smart to start giving those folks an ‘out’ (i.e., reasons they shouldn’t be behind such craven leaders as Trump, Ryan, and McConnell; reasons why they should consider voting for Clinton and down-ticket Dems).
After all, if the last 16 years have shown us anything, it’s that we are the party of fiscal responsibility, responsive (and relatively lean) government, and a sound defense. It doesn’t take away anything from our progressive priorities to talk about those things too, and it might just peel away a significant portion of that last 1/3.
SFAW
@amk:
It’s always so charming when Deadbeat Donnie calls her “Pocahontas” and “Goofy” and “least productive.”
I guess butthurt only increases the amount of spewing from his lie-hole. Good to remember for the general.
dogwood
@Kay:
You are so right. The base of both parties have no idea that their sensibilities aren’t shared by the broader electorate. Warren is fine but she isn’t in Biden’s league. I was taken aback that she she was giving a stump speech in that venue. If the Democrats argument is that Trump and his insults aren’t fit for the White House, then a democratic campaign where Warren trades insults with Trump on Twitter isn’t much of a strategy. I saw the speech and saw essentially the same thing on the Senate floor. I wouldn’t watch it again. Sometimes less is more and I don’t think Warren or the base really get that. Given my sensibilities, if I were a swing voter instead of a liberal democrat, I think she might wear pretty thin with me.
rikyrah
I hope that Balloon Juice will have a thread for the Muhammad Ali Funeral Service today.
Miss Bianca
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: yay! If POB is coming to Colorado I wanna be there! Never forget the Pueblo rally I went to in ’08. That was a wonderful day.
burnspbesq
@EconWatcher:
http://www.law.columbia.edu/fac/Michael_Graetz
Miss Bianca
@Kay: and this and this alone might make the argument for TPP for me. My home county is #1 in the state for niche agriculture – particularly fruit. Between TPP and the local microdistilleries and cider mills opening, we might actually start planting more orchards rather than tearing them out. This would be awesome to see.
amk
@SFAW: Gotta love how both the ladies taunt him on twitter, which he considers his personal fiefdom. The eleventeen other clowns of derp bench didn’t have a clue on how to take on this racist pos.
Kay
@dogwood:
I think the Constitution Society would love both. I think Biden’s was powerful because it goes against “type”. My husband expects Warren to deliver a barn-burner. My husband is like Warren- he’s a brawler- a happy warrior. He doesn’t expect Joe Biden to point out in low, serious tones that it’s pretty freaking scary to have a major Party Presidential candidate going after a judge. “Authoritarian” is right. That would get his attention.
Loviatar
@Jeffro:
Why do you still consider anyone calling themselves a Republican sensible/reasonable/moderate, or even conservative? Based upon the current Republican party platform and actions, if you still call yourself a Republican by definition, you’re not sensible or reasonable or moderate or even conservative. These people aren’t “gettable”, why waste time on them and possibly muddy up the general election messaging thereby pissing off your own base. Nahh, leave ’em with the filth they cultivated for the past 50 years.
Kay
@Miss Bianca:
The problem with agriculture though as far as “jobs!” is the vast majority of ag jobs are low status and low wage.
To me it just goes back to free traders absolute inability to speak plainly and tell the truth. I object to it because I think it comes from a bad place, a place that assumes the huddled masses could NEVER be persuaded on the merits because they are parochial and kind of dumb and trade is very, very complex and “long arc”.
One of the problems with that is they’re just wrong. Labor unions are at the table on trade deals. They pay more attention to it than anyone else outside the masters of the universe :)
Telling steelworkers in Cleveland they don’t “understand” dumping is just not true. Sure they do. They lobby on it
El Caganer
@SFAW: They not only repeat it, they amplify it. I have some wingnut buddies, and one of them recently informed me that that ex-Secret Service guy who just published the Hillary hatchet job was “the former head of the Secret Service.” All I can do is smile and nod – when people have reached that level of delusion, there isn’t much to say.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Kay:
I agree with this. Joe was deadly serious, and deeply troubled by the threat to the judiciary. I listened much closer to his speech than Liz’s, but there was no twitter takeaway, so of course Liz got the (well deserved) attention.
eclare
@rikyrah: A couple were on NBC nightly news last night. Never watch, but I broke down last night to see the MSM coverage. Brought up in first ten or so minutes. The carpenter whose company went bankrupt was interviewed (or his son).
SFAW
RIP Gordie Howe
Loviatar
@El Caganer:
Ex-Secret Service agent: Hillary Clinton ‘occasionally violent’
If only this was true, my respect for her would triple. LOL
Miss Bianca
@rikyrah: I think so. I hope so.
@SFAW: Oh, noes! We were just talking about him the other night!
Kay
@Miss Bianca:
There’s this bizarre “self interest” analysis that goes on with trade. Are labor unions self-interested? Yes. So is everyone else at the table. There’s an assumption that large multi-national companies objectives align with the national interest, always, and that simply isn’t true. They’re in a lot of “nations”.
The complaint is it’s not balanced. That the advocates who don’t represent monied interests don’t have enough clout. but to get to their compliant you have to admit that all the parties are self-interested, and free traders won’t admit that. Labor unions will freely admit it. It’s the reason they exist. They’re advocates for a specific group.
Miss Bianca
@Kay: Well, until this country takes labor concerns seriously enough to put a “labor” report on the tv/radio/internet news right up there with the “business” (read “stock market”) report, serious coverage for trade deals from a labor perspective is probably not going to happen.
Kay
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
It IS troubling. That Dumbo blundered into a separation of powers issue because he was attempting to distract from his rip-off Trump University is just the icing on the cake. He’s a fucking train wreck. He can’t make these clownish, desperate mistakes as President.
SFAW
In other news, purported historian Timothy Stanley (Daily Telegraph) intimates that Hillary and Deadbeat Donnie are the same person:
1) Age
2) There are some things they agree on
3) They’ve been on television “since television was invented, or thereabouts”
4) They’re members of the 1 percent
5) They color their hair
6) They’re New Yorkers
7) They have marital issues
8) They face investigations for potential misconduct.
9) They share a lot family history. (as in, genealogy.) One thing I DID learn from this mook: Gonzalo Curiel’s father arrived in the US in 1920, 10 years before Trump’s mother.
10) Everybody hates them
Nice to know that there are Brits — an historian, no less — who are every bit as moronic as the Rethuglicans. Or, as Molly Ivins once wrote about Camille Paglia: “Sheesh! What an asshole.”
ETA: I re-read it to try to detect snark/parody/satire. Maybe I’ve lost the ability to discern, but I saw it as being a straight commentary.
GregB
@Loviatar:
Ever the panty sniffing creep, Drudge is running with the latest anti Hillary book by Dolly Kyle with lots if Enquirer style pillow talk.
Kay
@Miss Bianca:
It’s not all bad. The FOOD industry is one of the few that is still unionized. The biggest union employer here makes candy. They want free trade for sugar.
Labor people had a dilemma during Fight for Fifteen because while WENDYs is a low wage employer the giant baker who makes Wendy’s hamburger buns is not :)
It’s complicated and they really do get into the weeds.
Shell
Well, she played a defense attorney in ‘The Client’. Maybe she figures that gives her some legal standing.
aimai
@Baud: I’m wondering who really owns that list. If I were on it I’d want off,too. I have never stopped recieving emails from people running in obscure democratic races and my mother gets badgered for money all the time and she is really too old to handle those phone calls.
On the flip side, I think its absurd that Bernie, who mined the Demcoratic Databases for names and contacts isn’t contractually obligated to turn his voter information over to the actual nominee. What does it mean to allow someone to run in the democratic party race if they aren’t committed to building the party? If Bernie refuses to turn the list over he should absolutely not be offered anything at the convention, and the party should make clear those are the rules.
aimai
@El Caganer: Don’t you ask them–“Tell me which dates he served as head of the SS? I’d like to look him up.”
hovercraft
Matt Taibbi has some very stern words for all of you smug Hillary supporters who are crowing about her victory.
link
I agree with some of what he says, but this insistence by some Sanders supporters that we have to agree to be taken over by his agenda is ridiculous. Yes he ran a good campaign, and he has some good ideas, but this is still America and until you can show me a way to get at least get 60 progressive senators, better yet 65 in case of some defections. Because unless you are going to miraculously get a constitutional amendment none of his ideas will come to be. The revolution that has failed to muster up sufficient support to defeat Hillary is not going to be big enough or strong enough to pressure congress. Right now 90 % want background checks, majorities want increased social security benefits, but congress doesn’t care. A revolution requires enough revolutionaries to overturn the system, right now they don’t have the numbers.
aimai
@dogwood: I think that is wrong though. Swing voters are not paying enough attention to see a speech multiple times. They don’t care about nuance. Voting, for the, is something that happens in a hysterical last minute, not as the result of careful thought. That’s not who swing voters are.
But in any event there are more than one kind of swing voter in this election. And we need all kinds of approaches to them. Some will resonate with Biden’s quiet approach–but few people have 48 minutes to give to a quiet talk among friends, filled with quotes. And many more will resonate with a punch, twitter based, bitch slap of a political approach. That is what Warren is doing. “What kind of man…the kind of man who will never be President of the United States” is a stand up and cheer moment. Lots of people need that emotion to get going and get out and vote.
catclub
@Kay: I thought that running for President might end up for Trump like legislators who are immune from prosecution. My reasoning in that if, in 2017, with Hillary as President, some Prosecutor wanted to file charges against Trump, Trump could claim that he was being attacked be cause he ran against Hillary.
Although this is true, it is unlikely that Trump could imagine losing, or planning this far ahead.
El Caganer
@aimai: I used to try and engage them. The response was always, always the same – a blank look followed by a changed subject. Now I just say, “Fuck it – let’s watch the Phillies. Next round’s on me.” That’s what passes for political discourse outside of my own family.
aimai
@hovercraft: Sanders lacked big money donors but he had shitloads of money. He paid a ton for his votes and lost California. She did not and won California. These people need to grasp that “institutional support” is not a crime, its an important component of running the country. We weren’t electing god king, we are electing a leader of teh party and a leader of the country. God Kings don’t need institutional support, or friends of any kind. But Presidents do.
Shell
‘More Sugar!’
(Obligatory Firesign Theatre reference for those of a certain age.)
AnderJ
Apparently Trump tweeted yesterday about Warren:
So now the press can do a new round of asking everyone if they feel Trump is a racist. It is so easy to get under this guys skin… It like taking candy from a baby…
D58826
@Kay: And Dick Polman does a bit of slicing and dicing on ‘old little hands’
http://www.newsworks.org/index.php/national-interest/item/94468-journalists-unearth-the-dirty-details-of-donnie-deadbeat
catclub
@Kay:
Except he can use his presidential campaign, and will, and that is his main interest in life.
Also, see my other post.
MomSense
@dedc79:
Yes, unfortunately. Sadly for me I’ve encountered them IRL.
LAO
Well, I’m pleased to report that, after the Warren double header last night and the President’s appearance on Fallon, the people in my office are all fired up for Hillary and for stopping Trump. It’s like a switch has been flipped and everyone is super excited. Hopefully, we all can maintain our enthusiasm for the next 5+ months.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@OzarkHillbilly: His resume says “consultant”, his actual work experience says “office coffee slave”.
D58826
@hovercraft: shorter version (well maybe not shorter)- Sen. Warren may win big in Mass. but would be hard pressed to get her family to vote for her in Mississippi. Like it or not there are not enough progressives in the country to win national elections let alone state and local. 6 of the 7 smallest states (all red), with a combined population of a bit over 3 million people have 12 senate seats. The city of LA has 3.8 million people and Calif. has 50 million. Calif. has 2 senate seats. The red states can block action in the senate with 41 votes and not come anywhere near 41% of the population.
So if progressive/Bernie supporters want to have any influence at the various levels of government they are going to have to learn to live with moderately center right/blue dog democrats. Without those blue dogs Obamacare would have died in Congress just like every other attempt at universal healthcare. Getting your loaf of bread one slice at a time is better than getting no loaf at all.
gogol's wife
@rikyrah:
Her clear, simple language is so effective. She must have been dynamite in the classroom. Sophisticated but crystal-clear.
gogol's wife
@Jeffro:
“It was amazing, it was outstanding, it was a political artillery barrage that didn’t let up all day long.”
Bernie Sanders is replaced by Sgt. Saunders!
hovercraft
@aimai:
Exactly, I want to shake them, establishment is not a dirty word. It means people who actually know what they are doing. You can join and bring change or you can sit in the cheap seats and hurl insults.
D58826
@LAO: I saw somewhere in the last day or two that the difference between Bernie and Liz is that she is liked by her colleagues and he isn’t. And building relationships, esp. friendly ones, is at the heart of building a political movement.
hovercraft
@D58826:
You sellout. Even supposedly mature seasoned people who I used to think were rational and reasonable have bought into the notion that they are part of a huge groundswell out there. If they couldn’t improve on the 2008 turnout numbers nothing is going to change the basic landscape.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@Matt McIrvin: You cannot possibly be a CA resident. Don’t worry. Pete Wilson well and truly buried the CA GOP for the next 20-30 years at least all by himself, and Donald may dig the hole even deeper and shove the corpse so far down they may not even be able to find it for another fifty. Sanders, the Dem loser, got more than three times the primary votes that Trump did. The GOP won’t win CA. Period.
gene108
With friends like these, who needs enemies:
http://www.wvtm13.com/politics/mcconnell-obvious-trump-doesnt-know-issues/39995206
D58826
@gene108:’old little hands’ doesn’t need a script. He needs a straight jacket!
Cat48
@D58826
A large number of Bernie’s supporters told.the.NYT that they don’t necessarily agree with his.policies. They just like him. That seems,odd?
Chris
@Jeffro:
I mean, the Democrats are welcome to try and I think they will – politicians know to try out as many voters as possible.
I just don’t think there’s much left in the way of persuadable conservatives. The Southern Strategy is fifty years old. At this point, most of what can be reaped has been reaped. As far as being repulsed by Trump goes… I think pretty much anyone who actually cares about racism as an issue realized years if not decades ago that the GOP was on the wrong side of that. The people who stayed in it are the people who don’t actually care, they just have image and self-image concerns because “racist” is a dirty word. That’s not the foundation of a strong crossover movement.
If my Facebook Wingnut Barometer is any indication, the way to deal with their issues is by shifting the conversation to how liberals and nonwhites are the real racists (bonus point for the guy I saw last week enraged by the violence against Trump supporters and claiming that “I don’t like Trump, but the only violence I’ve seen in this election season is against his supporters, not by them! Why won’t the liberal media talk about it!”) In other words, same thing they’ve always done. By November, they’ll all have fallen in line, happily convinced that all right, Trump may be a little rough around the edges, but the savage hordes of black racists and union thugs and liberal elitists is much worse, and we need to support him so that they won’t win.
O. Felix Culpa
@Miss Bianca: If Prez Bamz comes to Pueblo again, I’ll drive up for it!…and then maybe a BJ meet-up afterwards to celebrate. :)
Captain C
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
Weren’t Janet Weiss and Annie Savoy AUSAs?
Miss Bianca
@O. Felix Culpa: That would be way fun! let’s hope!
Matt McIrvin
@CONGRATULATIONS!: Seriously, I know Trump won’t carry California.
Really, all this talk about Sanders folk strategizing about safely voting Green or Libertarian as long as they’re in safe blue or red states just freaks me out a little because it’s such an echo of 2000. There were clever websites Naderites set up where people could “exchange” their votes: a person in a swing state would promise to vote for Al Gore in exchange for someone else in a safe state voting for Nader on their behalf, so that Nader could get as much of the popular vote as possible without being a spoiler. They were so sure it’d be OK.
ruemara
@Kay: I’m going to say no. Having witnessed how political players work, even with sworn enemies, no. The Sanders reputation and his actions say he’s an utter asshole who couldn’t play on a team at all, but the team he tried to co-opt knows a thing or two about optics. They look decent and seem to be recognizing your perception of Sanders’ benefits to this cycle while Sanders goes off and turns people off even more by being himself.
dogwood
@hovercraft:
The idea that the Sanders campaign is the future of the party makes me sad. I’ve always been an active liberal democrat, but now I’d call myself an Obama democrat. That’s the coalition of voters that speaks to my vision of the future of the party and a party I’d work for. The Sanders movement is just too white and too angry for this 62 year old white woman. I hope Taibii is wrong, but what will be will be.
Chris
@dogwood:
Too white, I get.
Too angry, I don’t get. There’s plenty in the system to be legitimately angry about. I’d say they’re angry at the wrong targets (at times), but I’d also say that if anything they’re not angry enough, or at least angry only about too narrow a range of things – it’d be nice to see as much anger about injustice along racial and gender lines as you do along class lines.
tybee
@Splitting Image:
ha!
dogwood
@Chris:
That’s your opinion and I respect it. I’ve watched for eight years what angry voters can do to a political party and the country and it’s not for me. I get plenty angry about inequality and injustice, but I’m not resentful. And populism is all about resentment. I live modestly on a modest income and I don’t feel like a victim or that the system is rigged against me; I feel lucky. But Bernie has hit a nerve because some of my similarly situated Bernie- voting friends are now feeling pretty aggrieved. More power to them, but it’s just not for me.
misterpuff
@Mustang Bobby: Mr.Peabody has an excuse, he would trip over a necktie.
nutella
Yesterday @Adam L Silverman said that the Cherokee Nation had checked Warren’s background and determined that she is 1/28 Cherokee which is enough to be eligible to join the tribe. I can’t find any links among the twenty tons of Pocohontas snark. Can Adam or anyone else provide a link for this?
misterpuff
Hill dude reminds me of the woodchuck with the bow tie who’s function is to be the clueless Dem pundit from Tom Tomorrow’s This Modern World.
sm*t cl*de
@Kay:
The emerging narrative is that Trump is running for President because of all his civil litigation, and all the people he owes… he desperately needs access to stealable assets.
Jeffro
@Loviatar:
I think some of them…like say my mom, lifelong religious person and conservative…are completely appalled by Trump and at least as appalled by Ryan’s/McConnell’s/Christie’s/McCain’s/etc sheer craven willingness to go along with a clearly unfit person.
Mom can’t be the ONLY one out there…
sm*t cl*de
@misterpuff:
And yet, he is the best they could find to cast in the role of “Frustrated Democrat turned Trump supporter, voice of an angry, idealistic, robbed generation of voters”.
The best they could find.
SFAW
@sm*t cl*de:
Cool story, bro.
Wait … sorry about that, I was channeling one of our trolls.
Where is this narrative “emerging”? This is the first I’ve heard of it, would be interested to see where it originated.
Or did it originate with you, and you’re hoping someone takes it seriously and runs with it? [If so, I doff my cap to you.]