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You are here: Home / Economics / Grifters Gonna Grift / Friday Morning Open Thread: In It to Spin It

Friday Morning Open Thread: In It to Spin It

by Anne Laurie|  June 10, 20165:16 am| 270 Comments

This post is in: Grifters Gonna Grift, Hail to the Hairpiece, Open Threads, Republican Venality

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The true winner of 2016? The grifters. https://t.co/Kp7D6rfDB8

— Wyeth Ruthven (@wyethwire) June 10, 2016

Republicans launch dating site for Trump supporters https://t.co/k4wXDRRecN pic.twitter.com/sWxTEFR0LD

— The Hill (@thehill) June 10, 2016

Speaking of which, this staunch little lad looks like he could use the help…

Uh-huh. pic.twitter.com/hqu0fmR6a5

— Bob Schooley (@Rschooley) June 10, 2016

Next week I'm launching @TrumpDems. Like many Dems, I cannot and will not support @HillaryClinton in November #MAGAhttps://t.co/h1AWSQWLzA

— Harlan Hill (@Harlan) June 3, 2016

Is it just me, or does it seem like Harold Harlan Hill imagines himself as a next-gen Karl Rove to duet with Milo Yiannopoulos‘ next-gen Ann Coulter?

***********
Apart from rolling our eyes at the ratfvckers, what’s on the agenda as we wrap up this hella busy week?

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Next Post: Hospital market power and anti-competitive actions »

Reader Interactions

270Comments

  1. 1.

    Aqualad08

    June 10, 2016 at 5:22 am

    Harlan Hill has GOT to be Roger Ailes’ version of what a Bernie liberal turned Trump supporter would look and act like. There’s no way he’s real… it’s worse than professional wrestling. What Democratic campaigns does he allege to have strategized for?

  2. 2.

    Keith G

    June 10, 2016 at 5:24 am

    Jesus, Bow-Tie guy looks like a twenty-year-old Mark Shields. Just took the time to watch Elizabeth Warren’s speech while I was eating breakfast this morning.

    Eggs and tears of joy.

  3. 3.

    sm*t cl*de

    June 10, 2016 at 5:28 am

    It is as if the Stay-Puff marshmallow man from Ghostbusters took to wearing bow-ties.

  4. 4.

    Baud

    June 10, 2016 at 5:33 am

    @Aqualad08:

    What Democratic campaigns does he allege to have strategized for?

    ::Bows head in shame::

  5. 5.

    Schlemazel Khan

    June 10, 2016 at 5:33 am

    Mr. Hill has a web page which lets you know he works “by appointment only” but no information about any Dem he is alleged to have consulted for. I have never heard of him before this morning but apparently is yet another gift to liberals from the UK. It seems he started life as a 15 year old peg boy for the British Parliament and has worked his way down to FOX news peg boy pretend liberal.

  6. 6.

    Amir Khalid

    June 10, 2016 at 5:38 am

    Young Harlan is a 25-year-old political consultant. He started his career in the field at 15. How you can have enough experience and political knowledge at 15 to be worth consulting is a mystery to me.

  7. 7.

    Chyron HR

    June 10, 2016 at 5:39 am

    I thought Hank’s little fat kid was named Bobby.

  8. 8.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 10, 2016 at 5:41 am

    @Schlemazel Khan: I know people that work “by appointment only” but they provide a much more useful(and pleasurable) service. The price though is probably about the same.

  9. 9.

    Mary G

    June 10, 2016 at 5:42 am

    He was deleted from Wikipedia? But I found this copy of it?

    Harlan Hill (born November 12, 1990) is an American Internet entrepreneur and political consultant from Charleston, South Carolina. He is the CEO of TallyVoting,[1] an American election technology company based in Washington, DC and political consultant.
    Contents [hide]
    1 Early life and education
    2 Political career
    2.1 Beginning
    2.2 Vic Rawl for US Senate
    2.3 NoVoucherTax.org
    3 TallyVoting
    4 Footnotes
    5 External links
    Early life and education
    Hill is the son of two South Carolina lawyers and was born in Charleston, SC. He spent is summers working in their law firm in Ravenel, SC starting at 5 years old. In 1999, he started his first business, a web design firm. He graduated from Charleston Day School and went on to Porter-Gaud School in Charleston, SC before attending the George Washington University in Washington, DC, focusing on economics and political science.
    Political career
    Hill has been a consultant to the campaigns of former Washington, DC Mayor, Vince Gray, Congresswoman Gwen Graham, former CEO of the 2012 Democratic Convention, Steve Kerrigan, Congressman Mike Honda, Congressman Seth Moulton, Congresswoman Chellie Pingree, Congresswoman Lois Frankel, Judge Vic Rawl and President of the European Parliament Martin Schulz.
    Beginning
    Hill started his political career in 2007 working for Bill Wiggin of Leominster and, at the time, the conservative Shadow Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries. Hill was focused on ghost writing and editing Wiggin’s book. The next year, Hill began work on the data and field operation of the Liberal Democrat party in Liverpool, on City Council Member Colin Eldridge’s unsuccessful bid against Luciana Berger for the Liverpool Wavertree seat. In 2009, Hill formed a Washington, DC based political consulting firm, Code & Politics. Hill would go on to consult 26 US Congressional campaigns, Statewide candidates, International races and political parties, Fortune 500 companies and labor unions, including the American Federation of Teachers, Service Employees International Union, the Florida Education Association and the Pennsylvania State Education Association.
    Vic Rawl for US Senate
    That year, Hill joined Judge Vic Rawl’s bid for US Senate in South Carolina as the campaign’s Digital Director. The campaign made international news when it lost the Democratic primary to Alvin Greene[2] in a surprise upset and unsuccessfully protested the outcome of the race.[3][4][5]
    NoVoucherTax.org
    Hill received media attention for his work on NoVoucherTax.org. No Voucher Tax was a successful, but controversial campaign to rally conservatives in Pennsylvania against the formerly popular school voucher bill, SB 1.[6] The campaign drove a wedge in the Republican caucus in Harrisburg and public outcry led to SB 1’s defeat in 2011.[7]
    TallyVoting
    File:TallyVoting DRE.png
    TallyVoting DRE Electronic Voting Machine
    In May 2014, Hill announced he would begin focusing full-time on the election technology startup, TallyVoting. Tally is transitioning the $34billion election technology industry to a SaaS delivery model.[8] It utilizes a combination proprietary and off the shelf hardware. The business builds a sub $100, ruggedized and fully auditable electronic voting machines for deployment in the elections of developing democracies in Latin America

  10. 10.

    Frank McCormick

    June 10, 2016 at 5:44 am

    Not Mark Shield. Todd Starnes!

  11. 11.

    Baud

    June 10, 2016 at 5:45 am

    @Mary G:

    Congresswoman Chellie Pingree,

    She’s a bona fide good Dem.

  12. 12.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 10, 2016 at 5:48 am

    @Baud: Even good Dems make bad hires sometimes, HRC once hired Mark Penn. She also learned from her mistakes.

  13. 13.

    Central Planning

    June 10, 2016 at 5:48 am

    With the power of the internet and the NYS DMV, I was helping my kid register to vote. Apparently the “document number” that is on all driver licenses and permits (since 2014) is not on his permit so he couldn’t register. I guess we’ll have to go old school and fill out a piece of paper.

    On the other hand, I did change my party affiliation to Democratic (from none). Whee!

  14. 14.

    Mustang Bobby

    June 10, 2016 at 5:49 am

    Harlan Hill (born November 12, 1990)

    I don’t trust a political consultant that is younger than my car.

  15. 15.

    Baud

    June 10, 2016 at 5:50 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Yep. I hope this guy gets blacklisted.

  16. 16.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 10, 2016 at 5:52 am

    @Mustang Bobby: LOL, younger than mine too.

  17. 17.

    sm*t cl*de

    June 10, 2016 at 5:52 am

    Dude looks almost human. If he was a manservant he could be the Uncanny Valet.

  18. 18.

    Baud

    June 10, 2016 at 5:52 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: And to be fair, Mark Penn, to my knowledge, never urged people not to support a Democratic candidate.

  19. 19.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 10, 2016 at 5:56 am

    @Baud: Maybe he’ll go work at MS like Penn did. Remember the “Screwgoled” ad campaign, pure Penn.

  20. 20.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 10, 2016 at 5:57 am

    @Baud: True, his heart is in the right place, he’s just bad at what he does.

  21. 21.

    Baud

    June 10, 2016 at 5:58 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: And a slimeball. But a loyal slimeball.

  22. 22.

    raven

    June 10, 2016 at 5:58 am

    Harlon Hill played for Da Berz.

  23. 23.

    satby

    June 10, 2016 at 5:59 am

    @Baud: Well played!

  24. 24.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 10, 2016 at 6:00 am

    LOD had Penn on a week or so ago, I’m hoping he’s keeping real busy and far, far, far away from HRC’s campaign.

  25. 25.

    Schlemazel Khan

    June 10, 2016 at 6:03 am

    @Baud:
    That was another of Penn’s mistakes. Had he urged people not to vote for BHO he would have a regular gig on FOX now as one of their go to “Democrats” that trash liberals for money

  26. 26.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 10, 2016 at 6:04 am

    He graduated from Charleston Day School and went on to Porter-Gaud School in Charleston, SC before attending the George Washington University in Washington, DC, focusing on economics and political science.
    Political career
    Hill has been a consultant to the campaigns of

    So he never graduated. I wonder how many credit hours he accrued? A consultant to 8 different political campaigns. I wonder what he was consulted on? What brand of toilet paper?

    Those 2 words are full of pretentious meaning but are actually fairly vacuous.

  27. 27.

    rikyrah

    June 10, 2016 at 6:05 am

    Good Morning☺, Everyone ?

  28. 28.

    amk

    June 10, 2016 at 6:06 am

    jeeves, junior ?

    also. too. trumpesque punchable mouth.

  29. 29.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 10, 2016 at 6:09 am

    Hmmm, isn’t Mika supposed to get her new truck today?

  30. 30.

    Baud

    June 10, 2016 at 6:09 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: probably did data entry.

  31. 31.

    raven

    June 10, 2016 at 6:10 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Her new what. . . ?

  32. 32.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 10, 2016 at 6:12 am

    @raven: She had a bet with Barnicle about Trump being the nominee.

  33. 33.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 10, 2016 at 6:12 am

    @Baud: Gawd, I’ve done data entry; mind killing.

  34. 34.

    Schlemazel Khan

    June 10, 2016 at 6:13 am

    @Baud:
    Jeeze, you do’t suppose he is the guy that showed up here after the election claiming credit for OFA’s success? That guy had proof because he had a picture of PBO shaking his hand! Those things are as rare as hens teeth

  35. 35.

    Baud

    June 10, 2016 at 6:16 am

    @Schlemazel Khan: Ha. I wasn’t here then. Sounds like BJ has always attracted a certain cast of characters.

  36. 36.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    June 10, 2016 at 6:17 am

    @rikyrah: Good morning! ☕️

  37. 37.

    raven

    June 10, 2016 at 6:17 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: snark

  38. 38.

    germy

    June 10, 2016 at 6:18 am

    @Frank McCormick:

    Todd Starnes!

    That’s the name I was trying to think of. He’s a young clone of that gentleman.

    The bowtie is a nice touch. He really looks like a member of the young college republicans. The bowtie, the combed hair. Young repubs look like little old men.

  39. 39.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 10, 2016 at 6:18 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: That explains the switch to Trump.

  40. 40.

    NonyNony

    June 10, 2016 at 6:19 am

    I am sure that we will be finding out about low rent Tucker Carlson here in the coming days.

    What’s interesting to me is that he’s pre-tanked his own future. Nobody is going to want Trump’s loser stink on them after the fall, and he Fox News Democrats are a dime a dozen – they’ll be able to find someone who supported Clinton but is now disappointed in her by the day after inauguration. And low rent Tucker Carlson’s novelty act will have passed it’s sell by date.

  41. 41.

    Baud

    June 10, 2016 at 6:21 am

    @NonyNony: Maybe he needs the money now.

  42. 42.

    EconWatcher

    June 10, 2016 at 6:25 am

    Love the bow tie. Seriously, I’ve only known one bow-tie wearing guy who was not a complete a-hole, and looking back I wonder if I just didn’t know him well enough.

  43. 43.

    raven

    June 10, 2016 at 6:26 am

    @EconWatcher: Paul Simon

  44. 44.

    Patricia Kayden

    June 10, 2016 at 6:27 am

    I have a hard time believing that anyone who voted for President Obama (even once) could now turn around and vote for someone as odious and bigoted as Trump. There is nothing attractive about a Trump presidency to someone who appreciates the intelligence, wit and calm of our current Commander-in-Chief. I doubt Harlan was ever an Obama supporter and assume that he’s a Manchin Democrat — someone always at odds with the mainstream of the Democratic Party.

    Given how many Republicans have spoken out against Trump based on his lack of qualifications and demeanor, this year we may have more Clinton Republicans than Trump Democrats, or so I hope.

  45. 45.

    satby

    June 10, 2016 at 6:27 am

    He looks like Karl Rove and Tucker Carlson’s offspring from an unholy union consummated in hell. I hope we don’t have to see him often, but then again I never watch TV news so I should be safe.

  46. 46.

    Mustang Bobby

    June 10, 2016 at 6:27 am

    @EconWatcher:

    I’ve only known one bow-tie wearing guy who was not a complete a-hole, and looking back I wonder if I just didn’t know him well enough.

    Two exceptions: Bill Nye the Science Guy and Mr. Peabody.

  47. 47.

    satby

    June 10, 2016 at 6:30 am

    @Patricia Kayden: Well, the 30-something male friends of my kids are claiming there’s no difference between Drumpf and Clinton. I wish I could meet Sanders personally to thank him for that. Because that’s where they got it from.

  48. 48.

    MomSense

    June 10, 2016 at 6:30 am

    That kid looks a bit familiar but maybe it’s just because he looks like a younger version of Shields. We should probably brace ourselves for a lot of voting for Trump instead of Clinton stories.

  49. 49.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 10, 2016 at 6:32 am

    @raven: Did he wear the bow tie when he sang Kodachrome?

  50. 50.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    June 10, 2016 at 6:33 am

    Yesterday showed why the last 2 months of Sanders’ run (since New York) were so counterproductive.

    It prevented Clinton from pivoting and firing her cannons on Trump and it kept powerful weapons Elizabeth Warren, President Obama, and Uncle Joe on the shelve.

    If we had spent the last 60 days shelling the republicans it would have put down an important down payment in retaking the House and Senate.

    Sanders says he cares about overturning Citizens United and not stroking his own ego, but then he stood in the way, shielding the gop from incoming fire.

    It’s like the plot of “Bridge on the River Kwai” come to life (clip)

  51. 51.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 10, 2016 at 6:33 am

    @Mustang Bobby: I’ve been know to sometimes wear a bow tie, then again, I’m sometimes an asshole.

  52. 52.

    OldLeftyLady

    June 10, 2016 at 6:37 am

    I saw a comment somewhere else; “And the liquor didn’t have my favorite beer so I decided to drink bleach, instead.”

  53. 53.

    Splitting Image

    June 10, 2016 at 6:38 am

    @EconWatcher:

    Love the bow tie. Seriously, I’ve only known one bow-tie wearing guy who was not a complete a-hole, and looking back I wonder if I just didn’t know him well enough.

    Opus.

    Oh wait. You mean real people.

  54. 54.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 10, 2016 at 6:38 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Sometimes?

  55. 55.

    SFAW

    June 10, 2016 at 6:39 am

    @Baud:

    She’s a bona fide good Dem.

    True.

    Perhaps some enterprising Mainiac can contact her office to find out what young Master Hill did for Ms. Pingree’s campaign?

    Wiki also listed Seth Moulton, who seems to be doing a decent job. I think his district is in Anne Laurie’s neck of the woods.

  56. 56.

    Schlemazel Khan

    June 10, 2016 at 6:41 am

    @germy:
    That was an acatul Onion headline! It was something like “Republicans leading among young men that look like old men”

  57. 57.

    SFAW

    June 10, 2016 at 6:42 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    I’m sometimes an asshole.

    C’mon, man, no need to be modest with us — “sometimes”? (Just bustin’ yer stones. Also, because I don’t think I got to it the other day: Congratulations on your daughter’s graduation!)

    ETA: Shakes fist at OzarkHillbilly.

  58. 58.

    germy

    June 10, 2016 at 6:45 am

    @Schlemazel Khan: I’d forgotten about the onion article. I think it had a photo of a young guy with slicked-down hair and a oldman blazer.

  59. 59.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 10, 2016 at 6:47 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: When I’m not here.

  60. 60.

    SFAW

    June 10, 2016 at 6:47 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:

    One hopes he will have his own “Col. Nicholson moment” as I often call it.

  61. 61.

    Baud

    June 10, 2016 at 6:48 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Sometimes I feel like my problem is that that I’m not enough of an asshole.

  62. 62.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 10, 2016 at 6:48 am

    @SFAW: Thanks.

  63. 63.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 10, 2016 at 6:49 am

    @Baud: I’m an introvert, so I’m not an asshole to the people I should be an asshole to.

  64. 64.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 10, 2016 at 6:49 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: I’m always an asshole. At least I am consistent.

  65. 65.

    Schlemazel Khan

    June 10, 2016 at 6:51 am

    @Baud:
    I think the guy was pretty young but he had a job with the campaign & was justifiably proud of that. Things were OK until one of the FPs posted a story about how data analytics really were th key to GOtV and winning. He went off on the story as wildly inaccurate because it was he and the team of guys (mostly him) that really won it all. When people, including me suggested he might be wrong he went nuts & as proof of his importance to the campaign he had a picture of himself with Obama!!! Naturally several of us pointed & laughed so he just kept digging deeper & deeper. Every few days he would come back & try to get the last word on that thread & just out of spite I wouldn’t let him have it.

  66. 66.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 10, 2016 at 6:53 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: My niece called me “the meanest man in the whole wide world”.

  67. 67.

    Schlemazel Khan

    June 10, 2016 at 6:54 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA:
    I used to go out of my way to not be an asshole but the last few years with all the shit that has come down on me I have unleashed my inner asshole. The last few months I have been thinking I need to reign it in at work a bit.

  68. 68.

    Schlemazel Khan

    June 10, 2016 at 6:57 am

    @Schlemazel Khan:
    Now that I think of it that thread may have been the start of me unleashing asshole chang to paraphrase JEB?.

  69. 69.

    Baud

    June 10, 2016 at 6:58 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: I blame my mom. She suppressed my true nature to try to make me into a nice guy.

  70. 70.

    Just One More Canuck

    June 10, 2016 at 6:58 am

    @satby: If by thanking Sanders, you mean “kick him in the nuts” , then I agree

  71. 71.

    Splitting Image

    June 10, 2016 at 6:59 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:

    Yesterday showed why the last 2 months of Sanders’ run (since New York) were so counterproductive.

    It prevented Clinton from pivoting and firing her cannons on Trump and it kept powerful weapons Elizabeth Warren, President Obama, and Uncle Joe on the shelve.

    If we had spent the last 60 days shelling the republicans it would have put down an important down payment in retaking the House and Senate.

    It won’t make much difference, to be honest. The electoral college will probably screw Trump out of the presidency even if he runs a good campaign, and he probably isn’t going to.

    On the other hand, the same states that Clinton needs to win are the same states where the Democrats need to turn out the vote to retake the Senate: Pennsylvania, Florida, New Hampshire, Ohio, Wisconsin, North Carolina, Nevada. Several of them are also key to retaking the House. Ohio and Pennsylvania are gerrymandered to hell and the Democrats can pick up 10 or 15 seats by winning big there, but they have to win big across the states, not just ride the big cities to a win in the statewide vote. It’s a tall order, but if they do it, then Trump just won’t be a factor this fall.

    In other words, what the Democrats need to do has been obvious since the beginning of the year and the extended primary hasn’t changed the calculus much. On the other hand, you can argue that it hasn’t done any good either, since the main benefit of a prolonged primary is that the GOTV efforts in late states may help in November. (Indiana and North Carolina in 2008, for example) Unfortunately, the last swing state to vote was Pennsylvania in April and none of the more recent primaries will probably affect the November vote much. On the gripping hand, Rand Paul is up for re-election and organizing the Kentucky vote in May might have helped efforts to take him out. If that shitstain goes down, I’ll be happy to give Sanders a medal.

  72. 72.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 10, 2016 at 6:59 am

    @Baud: That’s what Freud said.

  73. 73.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 10, 2016 at 7:00 am

    @Baud: No worries there, trust me.

  74. 74.

    Baud

    June 10, 2016 at 7:00 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: I don’t think he ever met my mother.

  75. 75.

    Baud

    June 10, 2016 at 7:01 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: You’re too kind.

  76. 76.

    dedc79

    June 10, 2016 at 7:03 am

    Anyone encountered any jill stein supporters yet? From what ive seen so far, they’re like Sanders diehards but on acid.

  77. 77.

    Kay

    June 10, 2016 at 7:04 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:

    Nah. No one pays attention until June. It’s perfect. They hit him on something no Republican will defend which is the judge attack.

    There are no Republican electeds defending Trump. Kasich flipped the whole “establishment” theme on its head yesterday. Kasich asked why he should support someone he fundamentally disagrees with, on just about everything. TRUMP is now insisting people have to be loyal Republicans and get in line. Kasich is the maverick.

    He had no plan past the primary. He can’t even decide if he’s running as an outsider or a loyal Republican. His operatives vacillate between saying they don’t need the establishment and whining that the establishment isn’t supporting them.

    Republicans now have to defend this and there are hundreds like this. Thousands if you count the hourly people he stiffed on overtime and minimum wage:

    Trump’s Doral golf resort also has been embroiled in recent non-payment claims by two different paint firms, with one case settled and the other pending. Last month, his company’s refusal to pay one Florida painter more than $30,000 for work at Doral led the judge in the case to order foreclosure of the resort if the contractor isn’t paid.
    Juan Carlos Enriquez, owner of The Paint Spot, in South Florida, has been waiting more than two years to get paid for his work at the Doral. The Paint Spot first filed a lien against Trump’s course, then filed a lawsuit asking a Florida judge to intervene.

    These aren’t big contractors. They’re small businesses. It’s almost like they hire smaller contractors because they know small outfits don’t have the resources to go after them and get paid.

  78. 78.

    Baud

    June 10, 2016 at 7:07 am

    @dedc79: There was an article before the California primary about how Sanders was tapping into the Jill Stein supporters and hurting the Green Party. So a lot of the people who are the most aggravating may never have been Dems and were always ungettable.

  79. 79.

    Baud

    June 10, 2016 at 7:12 am

    The Atlantic

    On Thursday morning, House Republicans laid out their agenda on national security and foreign policy, and their 23-page packet of proposals looks very little like the vision Trump has outlined. His slogan of “America first” appears nowhere in the document. Nor does any mention of a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border, or a ban on Muslims entering the country. Where Trump has blasted trade deals and mused about imposing tariffs, House Republicans recommit themselves to promoting open markets and expanding free trade.

  80. 80.

    debbie

    June 10, 2016 at 7:14 am

    @Baud:

    I heard yesterday that they did this for the down-ticket races. I suppose it could work, providing you keep your voters in a giant bubble until November.

  81. 81.

    dedc79

    June 10, 2016 at 7:15 am

    @Baud: interesting. To the extent I’ve interacted with them, her supporters (and some of the sanders diehards) appear to be the kind of people who still think voting for Nader in 2000 was the right move. If they were never Dems to begin with, I’m a lot less worried about Hillary not getting their support

  82. 82.

    Baud

    June 10, 2016 at 7:17 am

    @debbie: The GOP has always been able to rely on their voters remaining in the bubble. But that was with respect to Democrats. I’m not sure how well it will work against their own nominee.

  83. 83.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 10, 2016 at 7:17 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: You should be proud.

  84. 84.

    Matt McIrvin

    June 10, 2016 at 7:18 am

    @Splitting Image: Any benefit Clinton gets from the Electoral College is probably extremely slight. If Trump’s map looks bad, it’s just because he’s behind nationally. Sam Wang’s Meta-Margin, measuring how far the vote would have to swing for the EV to flip, is not far off from Clinton’s margin in current national polls–right now, it’s actually smaller, though that’s probably because Clinton’s numbers are rising and the state poll aggregates inherently have a time lag.

  85. 85.

    Baud

    June 10, 2016 at 7:18 am

    @dedc79: I don’t know what the percentages are, but given polls that say that most Sanders supporters will back Hillary, I’m not too concerned right now about the people who will continue to hold out.

    ETA: I’m more concerned about a small minority being disruptive at the convention and drowning out our message.

  86. 86.

    Kay

    June 10, 2016 at 7:21 am

    @Baud:

    They’re in a terrible fix. They have this loose cannon rolling around and all they can do is release these boring “THIS is the GOP” dispatches that no one will read.

    The House and Senate Republicans voted to fast track TPP. The biggest (I would argue ONLY) winner on TPP is agriculture. Agriculture is firmly behind it, because we opened US markets to ag imports and other countries kept barriers up to US exports. They can’t compete without TPP. Agriculture is (primarily) a GOP lobby, especially in the Senate. Now they have to stand with Trump while he rants about a trade deal they all backed and a trade deal that ag states all support.

    Not that Donald Trump cares. He has no clue about any of this.

  87. 87.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    June 10, 2016 at 7:22 am

    WASHINGTON — (NYT) After President George W. Bush twice carried the New Hampshire county that includes vote-rich Manchester and Nashua, President Obama turned the tables and won it in both his elections by similar margins.

    Mr. Bush handily captured the Ohio county that includes Cincinnati and its mostly white suburbs in 2004, while Mr. Obama won there running away in 2012. Colorado and Virginia went for Mr. Bush, then flipped to Mr. Obama.

    Now that Mr. Obama has endorsed Hillary Clinton, her advisers are eager to use his political touch in those and other battleground states and extend the Democratic streak there this fall. They see Mr. Obama as a one-of-a-kind resource — a popular sitting president — in the looming campaign to defeat Donald J. Trump.

    ***
    Mr. Obama will be on his own, cutting a path across white suburbs in the Midwest and Rust Belt and spending time in African-American communities in Mid-Atlantic States like North Carolina and Virginia. The president will reach out to independents and others in New Hampshire and Iowa, and rally young people, Hispanics and Asian-Americans in competitive states like Colorado, Florida and Nevada.

    ***
    Clinton advisers described Mr. Obama as the rare sitting president who could help his party’s nominee in all of the swing states in the general election.

    ***
    The focus on independents and suburban women, and the message from the president on behalf of Mrs. Clinton, are likely to shift as Election Day draws closer. In October, Mr. Obama could be expected to fly Air Force One into places where he can energize turnout among core Democratic supporters.

    Aides said the president’s October calendar has been largely cleared of other activities, leaving him time to campaign wherever Mrs. Clinton needs him. Mrs. Clinton’s strategists said they were likely to send the president to the Orlando area in Florida; Montgomery County, Pa., north of Philadelphia; Denver; and Charlotte.

    Roll tide, roll

  88. 88.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 10, 2016 at 7:23 am

    @Baud: Fuck you.

  89. 89.

    Baud

    June 10, 2016 at 7:23 am

    @Kay:

    They’re in a terrible fix.

    Ain’t it grand?

  90. 90.

    Matt McIrvin

    June 10, 2016 at 7:24 am

    @dedc79: As I’ve said before, the Bernie-or-Busters I actually know who are refusing to support Clinton were either Jill Stein or Ron Paul supporters in 2012. They were not going to vote for anyone the Democratic Party was likely to nominate. One is a real burn-the-country-down-for-the-revolution type.

  91. 91.

    Baud

    June 10, 2016 at 7:25 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:

    Aides said the president’s October calendar has been largely cleared of other activities, leaving him time to campaign wherever Mrs. Clinton needs him.

    Hahahaha. I can just see Obama’s Outlook calendar blocked out for the month of October for “ass-kicking.”

  92. 92.

    Baud

    June 10, 2016 at 7:28 am

    @Kay:

    BTW, I know you oppose the TPP, but this

    Agriculture is (primarily) a GOP lobby, especially in the Senate. Now they have to stand with Trump while he rants about a trade deal they all backed and a trade deal that ag states all support.

    makes the whole endeavor worth it to me. I wonder how they’ll actually vote.

  93. 93.

    Matt McIrvin

    June 10, 2016 at 7:29 am

    I do think it’s possible that some fraction of white men who voted for Obama in either ’08 or ’12 will switch out of pure sexism/Hillary-hate, and they’re more likely to switch to Trump than to some third-party candidate. Those guys could be enough to flip one or more of the big swing states like Pennsylvania, which is a worry.

    Over on John Scalzi’s thread on Tuesday’s primary, there are so many Sanders supporters saying “I won’t vote for Clinton, but I live in deep-blue California, so it’s OK” that I started worrying about Trump carrying California.

  94. 94.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    June 10, 2016 at 7:30 am

    @Baud: ?!?

  95. 95.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 10, 2016 at 7:32 am

    @Baud:

    So a lot of the people who are the most aggravating may never have been Dems and were always ungettable.

    I was convinced of that a long time ago because all the Bernie supporters I know understand what is at stake here.

  96. 96.

    Cermet

    June 10, 2016 at 7:34 am

    @Baud: LOL; very good point! Go President Obama! Get Hillary into Office – this isn’t gonna be another Gore mistake.

  97. 97.

    NotMax

    June 10, 2016 at 7:34 am

    Proud graduate of the Tucker Carlson Institute of Fashion

    Magna cum dowdy..

  98. 98.

    Kay

    June 10, 2016 at 7:35 am

    @Baud:

    The problem is Donald Trump doesn’t know what he’s talking about. He doesn’t understand all these different interests. Montana really ISN’T like Las Vegas or New York City- the Cattlemen’s Association will be pro-TPP. Hell, New York STATE is huge in agriculture. I think NY is 2 or 3 in apples. Look at the apples in your grocery store, where they come from. Half of them are imports. They want to export NY apples and TPP will allow them to do that. They have to. Agriculture is the ultimate in “place based”. The whole asset is the ground. They can’t export production to China.

  99. 99.

    Cermet

    June 10, 2016 at 7:37 am

    @Matt McIrvin: Not a chance California switches – no way in hell. As for Pennsylvania, President Obama will help there a great deal so unlikely that will be a lose – close, maybe but will go for Hillary. Florida and Ohio are the two critical states. If she wins these and its looks favorable – game over for the Rump.

  100. 100.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    June 10, 2016 at 7:38 am

    WASHINGTON — (NYT) President Obama told Senator Bernie Sanders in an Oval Office meeting on Thursday to channel the energy of his presidential campaign’s millions of supporters behind Hillary Clinton, and said that Mr. Sanders would play a central role in shaping the Democratic agenda if he did.

    Moving swiftly to unite his party after a primary campaign that has left many of Mr. Sanders’s supporters bitter and disillusioned, Mr. Obama, according to his aides, tried to mollify the maverick senator while prodding him to reorient his efforts against Mrs. Clinton into a broader bid to help Democrats in November.

    The meeting was the set piece of a day of choreographed political theater in which Democrats treated Mr. Sanders to a visit only slightly less elaborate than that of a head of state. The White House made sure that cameras were positioned to capture the president and the vanquished Vermonter strolling animatedly along the White House colonnade to the Oval Office for their meeting. Later, Mr. Sanders met with the Senate Democratic leadership before zooming up Massachusetts Avenue for an audience with Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. at his residence at the Naval Observatory.

    The Johnson Obama Treatment

  101. 101.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 10, 2016 at 7:39 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: It’s a really funny story. I took the kid and the niece to Costco, keep in mind the kids didn’t have cell phones. We were in the checkout line and the kid(then 15) wanted to look at candy, I said OK. A couple of minutes later the niece(then 9) wants to go looking for her cousin, I tell her no. So she called me “the Meanest Man in the Whole Wide World”. The lady ahead of us in line had heard the conversation, and said “No he’s not”.

  102. 102.

    Iowa Old Lady

    June 10, 2016 at 7:40 am

    After W left office, someone said it was like we’d conducted an experiment to see if it mattered whether the president was smart, and it turned out it did. You can’t just rely on advisers to govern. With Trump, we’re apparently trying to decided if it matters whether the president knows anything about how the government works.

  103. 103.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 10, 2016 at 7:42 am

    @Kay: The entertainment and IT sector is getting killed in Asia by their loose enforcement of IP.

  104. 104.

    amk

    June 10, 2016 at 7:43 am

    @Matt McIrvin: If you doubt CA, you might as well crown the deadbeat the prez right now. Jeez.

  105. 105.

    debbie

    June 10, 2016 at 7:43 am

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    You can’t just rely on advisers to govern.

    Turned out to be a bad idea for Reagan, too.

  106. 106.

    D58826

    June 10, 2016 at 7:46 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: And Bernie repayed all of the flattery by talking about what he would do as President in his DC speech last light. The winding down is going to take a long time

  107. 107.

    amk

    June 10, 2016 at 7:46 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: So, the dem establishment, right from top to bottom, has shown the courtesy to the loser. Let’s see if he gracious enough to return it.

  108. 108.

    Reggie Mantle

    June 10, 2016 at 7:46 am

    Hillary’s having trouble getting young women fired up:

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/10/politics/hillary-clinton-women-generational-divide/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn

    CNN’s Polling Director Jennifer Agiesta analyzed the age and gender breakdown in 27 states where CNN conducted exit and entrance polls during the primaries — and found that overall, Clinton led Sanders 61% to 37% among women.
    But when she analyzed the age and gender breakdown across those 27 states, Sanders led Clinton by an average of 37 percentage points among women 18 to 29 — a stunning result given Clinton’s emphasis on the historic nature of her candidacy.,…

    in interviews during the final days of the California campaign, many young women at Sanders rallies said they would never vote on the basis of gender. They cited trust and integrity issues as the reason they weren’t voting for Clinton, and said their support for Sanders’ platform and policies trumped any notion that they should back a candidate angling for a historic first.
    Among the “Bernie or Bust” contingent, some said they planned to stay home; others said they would vote for Green Party nominee Jill Stein.

    Maybe if you yell at them and tell them how much you hate them and the candidate they backed, they’ll come around.

  109. 109.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 10, 2016 at 7:48 am

    @amk: Yup, CA will not be in play; no matter what Trump thinks.

  110. 110.

    raven

    June 10, 2016 at 7:51 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Paul

  111. 111.

    amk

    June 10, 2016 at 7:51 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    The dems had what, 3 x rethugs turnout just last week?

    There is worrying and then there is outright pessimism.

  112. 112.

    Chyron HR

    June 10, 2016 at 7:52 am

    @Reggie Mantle:

    Morning, Reg. LOVE the bow-tie.

  113. 113.

    Kay

    June 10, 2016 at 7:53 am

    @amk:

    Well, they more than showed courtesy. They said over and over that he brought in voters and focused on issues that needed to be at the forefront. Clinton, Obama, Warren. That’s what they said. My assumption would be they meant it.

    This idea that they’re reluctantly extending a grudging olive branch to millions of voters doesn’t really fit the reality. It isn’t “Bernie Sanders”. It’s his voters.

  114. 114.

    Reggie Mantle

    June 10, 2016 at 7:55 am

    @Kay:

    Well, they more than showed courtesy. They said over and over that he brought in voters and focused on issues that needed to be at the forefront. Clinton, Obama, Warren. That’s what they said. My assumption would be they meant it.

    Yes. I believe they did.

  115. 115.

    Baud

    June 10, 2016 at 7:55 am

    @Kay:

    This idea that they’re reluctantly extending a grudging olive branch to millions of voters doesn’t really fit the reality.

    Reality left town a long time ago.

  116. 116.

    amk

    June 10, 2016 at 7:56 am

    @Chyron HR: lulz.

  117. 117.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 10, 2016 at 7:57 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: The states that are NOT in play get Hillary to 240 in the electoral college. Trump has to run the table to win. Hillary has about a half dozen different ways to win.

  118. 118.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 10, 2016 at 7:57 am

    @raven: (I knew which Paul Simon you were talking about, just being silly.)

  119. 119.

    Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap

    June 10, 2016 at 7:59 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Do you think she can do it despite this:

    But when she analyzed the age and gender breakdown across those 27 states, Sanders led Clinton by an average of 37 percentage points among women 18 to 29 — a stunning result given Clinton’s emphasis on the historic nature of her candidacy.,…

    /snark

  120. 120.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 10, 2016 at 7:59 am

    @Kay:

    It isn’t “Bernie Sanders”. It’s his voters.

    I wonder if Bernie knows that.

  121. 121.

    SFAW

    June 10, 2016 at 8:02 am

    @Reggie Mantle:

    Good to see that you’re taking up the slack, now that Racist Hump got banned (yet again). I was worried that we’d lose the all-important “No way I’d ever vote for Hitlary, even if I’ve said otherwise — Preznit Trump!! Woo-hooo!” demographic.

  122. 122.

    Kay

    June 10, 2016 at 8:02 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    Okay. I don’t believe in “enforcement” of trade deals. US regulators have enough trouble regulating within the US.

    “Trade enforcement” is endless meetings and adjudications and warnings over years because a trade sanction with any teeth (something other than a fine) is a hostile action and has repercussions for US multinationals and foreign policy. It’s like attacking another country. What we did to Iran was an economic sanction- trade. It’s the economic equivalent of war. It’s a trigger that never gets pulled, and everyone involved knows it.

    The US will never impose what amount to economic sanctions on these countries. Part of the reason they won’t do that is “US companies” aren’t “US companies”- they’re multi-nationals.

    I would be okay with trade deals if free traders would admit that, but they won’t. They have to do this song and dance about the trigger they have that they will never, ever pull.

  123. 123.

    JPL

    June 10, 2016 at 8:03 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: I think that Jane and Bernie want to campaign. They enjoyed the crowds, and as long as Hillary lets him preach on the campaign trail, he’ll be fine.

  124. 124.

    PurpleGirl

    June 10, 2016 at 8:06 am

    Harlan Hill looks like a Young Fogee, and a young upper class twit. Vedy, vedy proper twit.

  125. 125.

    NotMax

    June 10, 2016 at 8:06 am

    as we wrap up this hella busy week

    Zero response when mentioned, but still find it exciting that the week included the addition of 4 – count ’em, 4 – new elements to the periodic table.

  126. 126.

    Kay

    June 10, 2016 at 8:08 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Why would I care, if I’m President Obama? I have my own agenda if I’m President Obama and it’s “voters”

    Clinton is doing outreach to moderate Republicans. She’s not after Jeb Bush or John Kasich. Votes are the coin of the realm and Sanders got those. It’s all that matters.

  127. 127.

    D58826

    June 10, 2016 at 8:10 am

    @JPL: As long as they are preaching from the same hymnal that Hillary is preaching from, then fine. But if Bernie wants to continue preaching that his hymnal is better than anyone else’s it could create a problem.

  128. 128.

    JPL

    June 10, 2016 at 8:12 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: I read that Trump will campaign in California, because the anti-Trump demonstrations hurt the democrats.

  129. 129.

    Chyron HR

    June 10, 2016 at 8:14 am

    @NotMax:

    All of the new elements are artificially made “superheavy elements,” which rapidly break down into lighter substances

    Oh, so they artificially created new elements but the elements rapidly broke down before anyone could see them? How CONVENIENT.

  130. 130.

    D58826

    June 10, 2016 at 8:14 am

    @Kay:

    otes are the coin of the realm and Sanders got those

    And now he has to work to deliver them. For a lot of his voters it seems that they need him to validate the idea that it’s ok to vote for Hillary. That they are not betraying the revolution by doing so. That Hillary will move the revolution forward, even if not as fast as Bernie would have. If he doesn’t do that, I’m not sure any amount of Hillary/Obama outreach will help.

  131. 131.

    raven

    June 10, 2016 at 8:14 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: me too

  132. 132.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 10, 2016 at 8:15 am

    @JPL: Trump thinks he can win in CA, Trump is wrong.

  133. 133.

    Baud

    June 10, 2016 at 8:15 am

    @D58826: I don’t know. Most of his voters aren’t the dead-enders that people complain about.

  134. 134.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    June 10, 2016 at 8:16 am

    Interesting photo of a young Bernie Sanders – his looks haven’t changed that much (photo)

  135. 135.

    Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap

    June 10, 2016 at 8:17 am

    @D58826: I believe you have diagnosed the problem correctly, and agree.

  136. 136.

    Reggie Mantle

    June 10, 2016 at 8:18 am

    @Kay:

    Votes are the coin of the realm and Sanders got those. It’s all that matters.

    THERE ya go. THAT’s what I’m talking about.

  137. 137.

    Reggie Mantle

    June 10, 2016 at 8:19 am

    @D58826:

    But if Bernie wants to continue preaching that his hymnal is better than anyone else’s it could create a problem.

    Shun the heretics! SHUN! SHUNNNNNN!

  138. 138.

    Patricia Kayden

    June 10, 2016 at 8:20 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Wow. Things have changed dramatically since 2014 when Democratic politicians were running away from President Obama and openly disparaging him in sometimes vain attempts to win seats. I’m glad that Secretary Clinton is not making the same mistake which cost Al Gore the presidency in 2000 when he ran away from President Clinton.

  139. 139.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 10, 2016 at 8:20 am

    @Kay:

    Why would I care, if I’m President Obama?

    As long as the votes were forthcoming, and they will be, you wouldn’t. I was merely referring to what appeared to be Bernie’s succumbing to a Messiah complex and his apparent anger that most Dems didn’t see how he was going to rescue all of us and then lashing out at the Dem party’s “rigged system” in wholly contradictory ways because of that.

    @JPL: If I were of the nature to do public speaking, I’m fairly certain I too would fall in love with standing in front of thousands of adoring people hanging on my every utterance. I think most politicians do.

  140. 140.

    D58826

    June 10, 2016 at 8:22 am

    @Baud: I hope your right. I know the Baud voters are on board but a bit of overkill from Bernie won’t hurt. The deadenders are just that deadenders.

  141. 141.

    Kay

    June 10, 2016 at 8:22 am

    @Reggie Mantle:

    The List is the thing- the names- and Sanders has a big list. His list has not just voters but small donors and they’re the gold standard of lists. I once did a canvass for Sherrod Brown + Obama that was just small donors. They’re more engaged than 99% of people. The 1% :)

  142. 142.

    C. Isaac

    June 10, 2016 at 8:23 am

    So, that sad sound, like a football slowly deflating, is the hopes and dreams of a Hillary indictment from the right. This was published in the WSJ today (sorry about the paywall):

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/clinton-emails-in-probe-dealt-with-planned-drone-strikes-1465509863

    To Quote:

    “State Department officials told FBI investigators they communicated via the less-secure system on a few instances, according to congressional and law-enforcement officials. It happened when decisions about imminent strikes had to be relayed fast and the U.S. diplomats in Pakistan or Washington didn’t have ready access to a more-secure system, either because it was night or they were traveling.

    Several law-enforcement officials said they don’t expect any criminal charges to be filed as a result of the investigation, although a final review of the evidence will be made only after an expected FBI interview with Mrs. Clinton this summer.

    One reason is that government workers at several agencies, including the departments of Defense, Justice and State, have occasionally resorted to the low-side system to give each other notice about sensitive but fast-moving events, according to one law-enforcement official.”

    TL;DR version — Turf war between State and CIA. State demanded to be informed of drone strikes BEFORE they happened. Official secure system took SEVEN HOURS to send emails, making the info old news. Often by the time the emails could have been obtained if they leaked, the drone strike would already be all over the Pakistani nightly news (so not exactly classified anymore).

    A big ol’ whopping helping of nothingburger.

  143. 143.

    Baud

    June 10, 2016 at 8:25 am

    @Kay:

    The Atlantic today

    Bernie Sanders has built more than just a following. He’s amassed the mother of all email lists. Some estimate it contains more than 5 million contacts, which is big, even by presidential standards. That database has allowed Sanders to raise thousands of dollars at the click of a button. But as his candidacy coasts to a close (?), some of his supporters say they want off before the Vermont senator shares their names with the Clinton campaign—or worse yet, the Democratic National Committee.

  144. 144.

    Baud

    June 10, 2016 at 8:27 am

    @C. Isaac:

    Official secure system took SEVEN HOURS to send emails, making the info old news.

    Lordy.

  145. 145.

    Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap

    June 10, 2016 at 8:27 am

    @Reggie Mantle: Until we see how this plays out, some folks are skeptical of what Bernie will do to help bring his most ardent followers to support Hillary and other Dems. Many of the hardcore supporters believe that Hillary and the Democratic party ( you know the national infrastructure we have to beat Republicans) are evil incarnate and must be overthrown to move forward. As has been pointed out by Kay, Obama and Clinton and Warren have all said they will work to get those votes. But, some folks are not reachable from that direction, and will need Bernie to help convince them. That’s not shunning that’s Bernie working along side the others to get it done, isn’t that what you say you want ?

  146. 146.

    D58826

    June 10, 2016 at 8:29 am

    @C. Isaac: Just from a political point of view, I find it impossible to believe that if there was even a remote possibility of an indictment that would have been communicated to the WH long before this. Not because Obama would try to stop the investigation but because an indictment this late in the game would be political devastating. Not just to Hillary and the democrats but the entire political process. Distrust and cynicism of and about the system are hig enough.

  147. 147.

    Matt McIrvin

    June 10, 2016 at 8:29 am

    @amk: Sorry, it was a joke.

  148. 148.

    Reggie Mantle

    June 10, 2016 at 8:30 am

    @Baud:

    Key word there is “some”. That could mean, like, two. The vast majority of people aren’t going to bother, because that’s how people are.

  149. 149.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    June 10, 2016 at 8:32 am

    Several law-enforcement officials said they don’t expect any criminal charges to be filed as a result of the investigation.

    Oh bullshit.

    Susan Sarandon guarantees an indictment is inevitable.

  150. 150.

    D58826

    June 10, 2016 at 8:32 am

    @Baud:

    Official secure system took SEVEN HOURS to send emails, making the info old news.

    I hope the system used to launch the nuclear missiles moves a bit faster. And certainty begs the question of why in 2016 it still takes 7 hours. At that rate might as well go back to using the Pony Express.

  151. 151.

    hedgehog mobile

    June 10, 2016 at 8:34 am

    @sm*t cl*de: *bows in admiration*

  152. 152.

    C. Isaac

    June 10, 2016 at 8:34 am

    @D58826:

    I’m pretty sure it’s one of those instances where, if there was any real chance of an indictment, that many months ago prosecutors would have had a private conversation with Secretary Clinton saying ‘for the good of the nation, you should probably withdraw’ and then offering a sweetheart plea deal if she did.

    I’m cynical enough to believe something like that could happen with someone in the political class.

  153. 153.

    Reggie Mantle

    June 10, 2016 at 8:35 am

    @C. Isaac:

    I’ve been hearing “Hillary’s gonna go to jail! Real soon now!” since 1992. Berniac that I am, even *I* know that’s not gonna happen.

    There’s a lot of blather about the Espionage Act, which should go away if anyone claiming she should be indicted for that would actually read the damn thing and notice that it requires “an intent to harm the United States or aid its enemies.” Whatever my problems with Hillary Clinton, I don’t think she ever had that intent. Subsection (f), I think it si (I’m quoting from memory here) punished for “gross negligence” but that’s a WAY higher standard than most people think.

  154. 154.

    Kay

    June 10, 2016 at 8:35 am

    @Baud:

    I feel like you guys are over-stating this, in the sense that people always “want off” lists. It just isn’t that earth-shattering. The List is the national equivalent of someone who knows someone else. It’s no more complicated than that.

    I was asked yesterday to contact the daughter of a ct of appeals judge on behalf of a ct of appeals hopeful because I know her. I helped with her father’s campaign (he’s deceased) and he was loved by liberals. My guy is a liberal. She will completely understand this and I will completely understand if she’s supporting one of the other two “Democrats” (judges run nonpartisan but we know what they are). If she says “no” (in a nice way, she will) she’s off the list.

  155. 155.

    Reggie Mantle

    June 10, 2016 at 8:37 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:

    Susan Sarandon guarantees an indictment is inevitable.

    LOL. Not only is she not a prosecutor, I can’t remember if she’s ever even played one.

  156. 156.

    Baud

    June 10, 2016 at 8:37 am

    @Reggie Mantle:
    @Kay:

    Agree. I think the bigger question is what Bernie decides to do with his list.

  157. 157.

    D58826

    June 10, 2016 at 8:38 am

    @C. Isaac: Yep. I agree. The domestic political stakes far outweigh any security risk the e-mails/server might have posed. She could have dropped out for reasons of health, spend more time with her family, etc. I suspect that seeing her presidential ambitions shutdown would be far more of a punishment than anything the prosecutors could do.

  158. 158.

    amk

    June 10, 2016 at 8:39 am

    @D58826:

    I hope the system used to launch the nuclear missiles moves a bit faster.

    You mean the one that still uses floppy disks?

  159. 159.

    Loviatar

    June 10, 2016 at 8:39 am

    I’ve had the following confirmed as a result of the 2016 Republican primary.

    – 1/3 of the Republican base are racist.
    – 1/3 of the Republican base while they may not be personally racist will willing support a racist (does that make them semi-racist).
    – 1/3 of the Republican base is shitting their pants because it is now public knowledge that 2/3 of their party are racist or are willing to support a racist.

    Yet I’ve not seen this basic analysis anywhere in the press. Donald Trump won the Republican primary using racist messaging. He consistently garnered approximately 1/3 of the Republican primary voters in state after state. Once he became the presumptive nominee, another 1/3 of the Republican base immediately coalesced behind him despite his racist messaging. The final 1/3 is complaining not about his racist messaging, but about that fact that he is saying it in plain english and so tarnishing their beloved party.

    Guys the secrets out, any sentient knows you’re the party of the racist, now we just need to get the non-sentient (the press) to clue in

  160. 160.

    rikyrah

    June 10, 2016 at 8:40 am

    @satby:

    He looks like Karl Rove and Tucker Carlson’s offspring from an unholy union consummated in hell.

    BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA H AH

  161. 161.

    C. Isaac

    June 10, 2016 at 8:42 am

    @Reggie Mantle:

    There’s simply no “there” there. At worst they get some minor procedural violations, none of which are criminal, and opening the can of worms too far means arguing against having any governmental oversight of CIA drone strike requests (which was the whole point of having them emailed to State, to have even the vaguest amount of oversight) — a position I find abhorrent as I’m sure many other progressives do.

    In the end, the CIA will say what it usually does; nothing. The FBI will shrug, interview Clinton one last time, and then declare it over. The GOP will be left looking like idiots and any further hearings/investigations will be treated as the giant waste of time they are.

    If they want to beat Mrs. Clinton, it’ll be at the ballot box.

  162. 162.

    Kay

    June 10, 2016 at 8:43 am

    @C. Isaac:

    I love my daughter on “the server” because I bet there are a lot of people like her. They lost her at “server” :)

    She’s like “oh, a SERVER thing – I;m not interested in THOSE” They consistently over-state the average person’s level of engagement. She’s really busy and “politics” isn’t her main thing. She has to narrow this flood of info and BS or she’d drown.

  163. 163.

    Baud

    June 10, 2016 at 8:43 am

    @D58826: I assume the emails are encrypted by hand by child laborers in Cambodia.

  164. 164.

    rikyrah

    June 10, 2016 at 8:45 am

    @Kay:

    Republicans now have to defend this and there are hundreds like this. Thousands if you count the hourly people he stiffed on overtime and minimum wage:

    ……………………………

    These aren’t big contractors. They’re small businesses. It’s almost like they hire smaller contractors because they know small outfits don’t have the resources to go after them and get paid.

    These stories are very important. They are building the narrative about him, as much as those early stories about Willard built the narrative about him.

    They need to come on, one by one, daily, drip drip drip.

    Paper cut by paper cut.

    This is defining the narrative.

    Let’s keep it going.

  165. 165.

    Baud

    June 10, 2016 at 8:45 am

    @rikyrah: @satby:

    I agree with rikyrah.

  166. 166.

    D58826

    June 10, 2016 at 8:47 am

    @amk: Funny. many years ago I was given a tour of the engineering model of the PHILCO 212 computer system. (google it). It was designed in 1964, had 32k of memory and no disks. All external storage was on 32 tapes. They were very proud that NORAD was using the same type of machine in Cheyenne Mountain Complex as part of the early warning system against Soviet missiles. I decided not to ask if the NORAD computers included the que tips in the enable button on the engineering model tape drives. Figured I’s sleep better not knowing.

  167. 167.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 10, 2016 at 8:48 am

    @Loviatar: And yet they will still garner 45-47% of the vote. Tells you all you need to know about America.

  168. 168.

    SFAW

    June 10, 2016 at 8:48 am

    @Reggie Mantle:

    Thanks.

  169. 169.

    raven

    June 10, 2016 at 8:50 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:Lawrence of Arabia No Prisoners (1962) HD

  170. 170.

    Kay

    June 10, 2016 at 8:52 am

    @rikyrah:

    I think Trump knows it. I believe he went after that judge to distract from Trump U. It just massively back-fired. This is worse than Trump U. This is what Obama calls “the guys in the hard hats”.

    I hope Paul Begala runs this part. He understood how to attack Romney.

    On another note, how fucking disgusting is it that Trump and his family are running around living large while they’re stiffing The Paint Spot for 30,000 dollars? Thirty thousand dollars to a small business is one whole employee for a year. Ivanka spends that on clothes.

    The Trumps deserve to be exposed. It’s the height of arrogance to believe they could pull this con thru a Presidential race.

  171. 171.

    gogol's wife

    June 10, 2016 at 8:55 am

    I just took the time to watch Warren’s speech. Wow! My cats are startled by my bursting into applause every few moments.

    Give ’em hell, Liz!!!!!

  172. 172.

    Reggie Mantle

    June 10, 2016 at 9:00 am

    @C. Isaac:

    When the IG’s report came out detailing that Clinton had “violated State Department policy” I just turned to my wife and remarked “Well, guess the State Department’ll have to let her go, then.”

    I do disagree that the Republicans will ever let this go, though. Even after the last investigation is dead, buried, and food for worms, it’ll be a talking point that “she lied about the e-mails”. And the people using it won’t have any idea of the whole story. It’ll just be a catch phrase they drop into conversation.

  173. 173.

    rikyrah

    June 10, 2016 at 9:01 am

    @Baud:

    Bernie Sanders has built more than just a following. He’s amassed the mother of all email lists. Some estimate it contains more than 5 million contacts, which is big, even by presidential standards. That database has allowed Sanders to raise thousands of dollars at the click of a button. But as his candidacy coasts to a close (?), some of his supporters say they want off before the Vermont senator shares their names with the Clinton campaign—or worse yet, the Democratic National Committee.

    I could see why this would be a good ‘get’.

  174. 174.

    Kay

    June 10, 2016 at 9:01 am

    @gogol’s wife:

    I like her but I actually thought Biden’s was better because it was regretful and serious. He raised the issue of Trump trying to influence a court case, civil litigation that has no national import or relevance WHILE running for President.

    This is a big problem. His seriousness was alarming because he’s so easy-going. My husband’s a lawyer and he was smiling at Warren’s attack but he stopped and listened to Biden- actually moved closer. Donald Trump can’t do this. He can’t use the Presidency to threaten judges who are reviewing his business interests.

  175. 175.

    Betty Cracker

    June 10, 2016 at 9:03 am

    @gogol’s wife: I had much the same reaction when I watched it a little while ago. I particularly love how she linked Trump’s bigoted attacks on the judge in his Scam U case to the overall Republican plot to weaken and degrade the judicial branch. Make those mofos own their Frankenstein monster!

  176. 176.

    rikyrah

    June 10, 2016 at 9:03 am

    @Loviatar:

    Yet I’ve not seen this basic analysis anywhere in the press. Donald Trump won the Republican primary using racist messaging.

    Nope.

    instead, you’ve seen a steady stream of articles doing all they could to dance around this point.

    I find it amusing myself.

    Trying to explain to the non-Whites of this country why what we heard, wasn’t what we heard.

    Uh huh.
    Uh huh.

  177. 177.

    Jeffro

    June 10, 2016 at 9:04 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    She learned from her mistakes.

    Boy has she – check THIS out: http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/trackers/2016-06-10/clinton-hires-sanders-s-director-of-student-organizing-politico

    Awesome move, Hillz!!!

  178. 178.

    dogwood

    June 10, 2016 at 9:04 am

    @D58826:
    Polling suggests that Clinton already has over 70% of his voters, so I don’t think these Sanders voters are that big of a problem. Some of the hold outs will hold out until people stop paying attention to them. A share are professional Clinton haters and non dems who will go elsewhere. I’m sure the Clinton team will do their best to reach out, but we shouldn’t forget that the majority of democratic voters haven’t voted yet. Those voters are just as important. Despite what the Sanders people say, 12 million votes isn’t half of the Democratic Party; it wasn’t even half of the primary electorate.

  179. 179.

    D58826

    June 10, 2016 at 9:04 am

    @Kay: In a sane world the final election results on Nov. 9th would be:
    Hillary = 52%
    Road Runner = 20%
    Anybody but Trump 27.9%
    Trump and his hangers on = .1%

  180. 180.

    C. Isaac

    June 10, 2016 at 9:05 am

    @Reggie Mantle:

    I can certainly see that being the case. Living in Texas, there’s a fair amount of the conservative mindset I get surrounded by. A fair number of them are very, very tenacious when it comes to what they believe about something. Once something is ‘conventional wisdom’, that’s the God’s honest truth until judgment day.

  181. 181.

    Cermet

    June 10, 2016 at 9:05 am

    @Reggie Mantle: On Fake News … I mean Fox news an ex-federal prosecutor, no less, even stated forcibly that he could NEVER get an indictment since there is zero proof that Hillary intended to break the rules to act criminally. This was fox news! No, this is a dead issue even as the thugs led by a Rump claim otherwise. Even Sanders supporters try this stupid line and it just goes to prove – Hillary is the most vetted person in existence – period.

  182. 182.

    Jeffro

    June 10, 2016 at 9:05 am

    @rikyrah:

    I can see why this would be a good ‘get’

    This too! http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/trackers/2016-06-10/clinton-hires-sanders-s-director-of-student-organizing-politico

    Hiring Sanders’ director of student organizing? Sounds like about eight different kinds of awesome. I wonder if she is taking 11-dimensional chess tips from PBO?

  183. 183.

    Gin & Tonic

    June 10, 2016 at 9:07 am

    @rikyrah: Don’t have a link, but the cover of the NY Daily News two days ago showed Ryan and Trump and a headline “I’m With Racist”.

  184. 184.

    amk

    June 10, 2016 at 9:07 am

    @Kay: It was a well orchestrated twofer from Warren and Biden.

  185. 185.

    rikyrah

    June 10, 2016 at 9:08 am

    @Kay:

    I think Trump knows it. I believe he went after that judge to distract from Trump U. It just massively back-fired. This is worse than Trump U. This is what Obama calls “the guys in the hard hats”.

    Trump U, if I read correctly, could be considered a RICO case…am I wrong about that?

    I disagreed with the dude from TPM who said that attacking the judge was brilliant distraction for Trump.

    Uh uh uh

    It was momentary distraction, and, all the while, there is some reporter, somewhere, digging through the sealed documents that the judge released. There are a whole lot of ads in those released documents.

    And, he will probably attack the judge a few more times.

    And, then, people will say, ‘ that’s all you got?’

    But, the ads are there. They are there in his ‘business’ practices. Attack that. Destroy the ‘ he’s a great businessman’ persona, and that’s his destruction.

    Just ad after ad from all the ‘little guys’ that were stiffed.

    One…two……you could say it’s an aberration.

    But, hundreds….it’s a pattern. Accept what the pattern tells you.

  186. 186.

    D58826

    June 10, 2016 at 9:10 am

    @amk: It was a totally well organized day from Bernie walking into the WH to Warren on Maddow. Choreographed like a Fred and Ginger dance routine.

  187. 187.

    amk

    June 10, 2016 at 9:10 am

    @Jeffro: Very smart move.

  188. 188.

    Gin & Tonic

    June 10, 2016 at 9:10 am

    CNN headline showing up in my Google News feed: “Democrats united behind Clinton, GOP divided on Trump”

    That’s really nice to see.

  189. 189.

    rikyrah

    June 10, 2016 at 9:11 am

    @Kay:

    I like her but I actually thought Biden’s was better because it was regretful and serious. He raised the issue of Trump trying to influence a court case, civil litigation that has no national import or relevance WHILE running for President.

    I liked Warren’s because, she explained, as she usually does, in the way that she uses language, that the Judge, who is bound by the ethical standards that he follows, can’t comment on the unwarranted attacks on him by Trump. I thought that was very important to get out.

    But, I enjoyed both.

    We don’t have to do either/or…we can do both/and…in terms of attacks and styles of attacks. We are that blessed in this instance.

  190. 190.

    Jeffro

    June 10, 2016 at 9:12 am

    @D58826: More like

    Trump 27% (but of course)
    Every other third party, combined 2%
    Clinton 71%

  191. 191.

    rikyrah

    June 10, 2016 at 9:14 am

    Kay, for you:

    Quick Takes: Trump’s Actual Business Record
    by Nancy LeTourneau June 9, 2016 5:11 PM
    POLITICAL ANIMAL BLOG

    * For anyone still under the illusion that Donald Trump’s business record is his greatest selling point as a presidential candidate, Steve Reilly pretty much tears through that myth.

    At least 60 lawsuits, along with hundreds of liens, judgments, and other government filings reviewed by the USA TODAY NETWORK, document people who have accused Trump and his businesses of failing to pay them for their work. Among them: a dishwasher in Florida. A glass company in New Jersey. A carpet company. A plumber. Painters. Forty-eight waiters. Dozens of bartenders and other hourly workers at his resorts and clubs, coast to coast. Real estate brokers who sold his properties. And, ironically, several law firms that once represented him in these suits and others.

    Trump’s companies have also been cited for 24 violations of the Fair Labor Standards Act since 2005 for failing to pay overtime or minimum wage, according to U.S. Department of Labor data…

    In addition to the lawsuits, the review found more than 200 mechanic’s liens — filed by contractors and employees against Trump, his companies or his properties claiming they were owed money for their work — since the 1980s…

    The actions in total paint a portrait of Trump’s sprawling organization frequently failing to pay small businesses and individuals, then sometimes tying them up in court and other negotiations for years. In some cases, the Trump teams financially overpower and outlast much smaller opponents, draining their resources. Some just give up the fight, or settle for less; some have ended up in bankruptcy or out of business altogether.

    ……………………………………….

    I know it’s sort of cruel to put these folks on film, but I want ads from the ones who had to go out of business because of Trump. …

  192. 192.

    Jeffro

    June 10, 2016 at 9:16 am

    @D58826:

    It was a totally well organized day from Bernie walking into the WH to Warren on Maddow. Choreographed like a Fred and Ginger dance routine.

    It was amazing, it was outstanding, it was a political artillery barrage that didn’t let up all day long.

    I honestly wish I had tuned in to Fox News, just to see how hard they were trying to spin Sanders essentially admitting it’s over and noting he’ll be working hard to beat Trump, Obama being gracious to Sanders while wholeheartedly endorsing Hillary, Biden endorsing Hillary and hitting Trump, and Warren giving Trump the mother of all beat downs (while also thwacking McConnell and Ryan for good measure)

    And that’s without even bringing in “Hellfire” Harry Reid and Nancy Smash off the bench…

  193. 193.

    Betty Cracker

    June 10, 2016 at 9:18 am

    @rikyrah: I haven’t watched Biden’s speech yet but will just as soon as I get the chance. Warren’s was a straight-up barn-burner. Even my disgruntled Bern-feeler hubby was totally impressed.

  194. 194.

    D58826

    June 10, 2016 at 9:18 am

    @Jeffro: As Charles Pierce has said repeatedly when Bill Clinton is number 4 on your surrogate depth chart, you are in pretty good shape,

  195. 195.

    Gelfling545

    June 10, 2016 at 9:20 am

    @Mustang Bobby: And The Doctor, of course.

  196. 196.

    D58826

    June 10, 2016 at 9:20 am

    @Betty Cracker: If we could only Vulcan mind meld the fiery Elizabeth with the tenacious Hillary – awsome

  197. 197.

    Loviatar

    June 10, 2016 at 9:22 am

    @Gin & Tonic:

    The New York tabloids are known for outrageous covers (Headless Body in Topless Bar) so the Daily News’ cover is not taken as serious analysis. Where are the MSNBC, CNN, NYT, WSJ, Bloomberg, etc analysis on this point. 2/3 of the Republican base either voted for or will willing support a blatant racist.

    Paul Ryan: Trump’s comments about judge are ‘textbook’ racism

  198. 198.

    amk

    June 10, 2016 at 9:25 am

    @C. Isaac: @Reggie Mantle: Very informative discussion. Thanks.

  199. 199.

    amk

    June 10, 2016 at 9:29 am

    @D58826: Yup. Compare this with the rethugs falling all over the place over the deadbeat donald.

  200. 200.

    Kay

    June 10, 2016 at 9:30 am

    @rikyrah:

    “Let’s run for President! No one will ever look at our phony ’empire’!”

    I don’t know- is this the definition of “privilege” or what?

    I keep thinking about the Washington Post’s exhaustive review of Obama’s home mortgage. 1000 words to “uncover” he has a big mortgage on a big, expensive house, and really good credit. I read the whole thing because I thought “there has to be something here, right?” Nope.

    The Trumps thought there would be no due diligence. They could just move into the White House like checking into a hotel. That’s what privilege is to me- the assumption that no one will ever question your rightful place among the elite.

  201. 201.

    SFAW

    June 10, 2016 at 9:30 am

    @Reggie Mantle:

    I do disagree that the Republicans will ever let this go, though. Even after the last investigation is dead, buried, and food for worms, it’ll be a talking point that “she lied about the e-mails”. And the people using it won’t have any idea of the whole story. It’ll just be a catch phrase they drop into conversation.

    Unfortunately, you’re probably right. I expect that can be countered effectively by hammering on the “Alleged billionaire Deadbeat Donald Trump has, for most of his career, stiffed the small businesses he hired to work on his developments” meme. Doesn’t put the lie to the e-mail claims, but it puts Deadbeat Donnie on the defensive enough that eventually, the MSM will turn in their knee pads, and start writing about it.

    Oh, who am I kidding? The MSM will just pull a “both sides do it” somehow.

  202. 202.

    Chris

    June 10, 2016 at 9:35 am

    @Loviatar:

    – 1/3 of the Republican base are racist.
    – 1/3 of the Republican base while they may not be personally racist will willing support a racist (does that make them semi-racist).
    – 1/3 of the Republican base is shitting their pants because it is now public knowledge that 2/3 of their party are racist or are willing to support a racist

    This.

    But it’s slightly more complex; half of it is “it is now public knowledge,” but the other half is “how am I supposed to deny this now?” – including and maybe especially to themselves. Loads and loads of Republicans have a stupendous amount of self-image invested in the notion that they’re Not Racist and that their party and movement is Not Racist. They have a nice, quaint, fifty-year-old, flanderized picture in their head of what The Real Racists look like, and are secure in the knowledge that because they don’t fit the caricature, they’re the good guys. And any suggestion to the contrary is just left-wing slander.

    Now, Trump has whipped up so many Republican voters so fast into sounding and acting too much like their caricature of The Real Racists that the illusion broke. It’s temporary; they’ll readjust their self-image and rationalizations in order to fit the square peg of “I’m still voting for The Tribe” into the round hole of “but I’m still not a racist” (in fact, most of them are doing that right now). But in the meantime, the shock was real.

  203. 203.

    Gin & Tonic

    June 10, 2016 at 9:36 am

    @Loviatar: Of course the NYDN isn’t serious analysis. I’ve lived there, I know all about it. But it’s a useful barometer, and sometimes really captures the zeitgeist (i.e. “Ford to City: Drop Dead”)

  204. 204.

    amk

    June 10, 2016 at 9:39 am

    poc a trumpus. LOL.

  205. 205.

    Kay

    June 10, 2016 at 9:41 am

    @rikyrah:

    We had a “labor” candidate for the state legislature here. I was his volunteer treasurer. He was a little rough but I was so grateful to him for running because he didn’t have a chance in hell. He came to us to confess to a ten year old (minor) criminal charge- one step above a traffic ticket- it doesn’t even get a number, it’s not a first or second degree, it’s a “minor”. He was really scared that we would feel he had screwed us with this thing when really no one would go after him because he’s not a threat. That’s the opposite of “privilege”. He assumes he will be 1. found out, and 2. treated harshly.

  206. 206.

    Jeffro

    June 10, 2016 at 9:44 am

    @Chris:

    the other half is “how am I supposed to deny this now?” – including and maybe especially to themselves. Loads and loads of Republicans have a stupendous amount of self-image invested in the notion that they’re Not Racist and that their party and movement is Not Racist. They have a nice, quaint, fifty-year-old, flanderized picture in their head of what The Real Racists look like, and are secure in the knowledge that because they don’t fit the caricature, they’re the good guys. And any suggestion to the contrary is just left-wing slander.

    I have a funny feeling that we’re going to start seeing some ads that help that last third walk back their reflexive support of the GOP and start to think about what principled conservatives should do this election. We on the left may not be crazy about pitches to the middle and/or conservatives, but it would be very, very smart to start giving those folks an ‘out’ (i.e., reasons they shouldn’t be behind such craven leaders as Trump, Ryan, and McConnell; reasons why they should consider voting for Clinton and down-ticket Dems).

    After all, if the last 16 years have shown us anything, it’s that we are the party of fiscal responsibility, responsive (and relatively lean) government, and a sound defense. It doesn’t take away anything from our progressive priorities to talk about those things too, and it might just peel away a significant portion of that last 1/3.

  207. 207.

    SFAW

    June 10, 2016 at 9:45 am

    @amk:

    It’s always so charming when Deadbeat Donnie calls her “Pocahontas” and “Goofy” and “least productive.”

    I guess butthurt only increases the amount of spewing from his lie-hole. Good to remember for the general.

  208. 208.

    dogwood

    June 10, 2016 at 9:45 am

    @Kay:
    You are so right. The base of both parties have no idea that their sensibilities aren’t shared by the broader electorate. Warren is fine but she isn’t in Biden’s league. I was taken aback that she she was giving a stump speech in that venue. If the Democrats argument is that Trump and his insults aren’t fit for the White House, then a democratic campaign where Warren trades insults with Trump on Twitter isn’t much of a strategy. I saw the speech and saw essentially the same thing on the Senate floor. I wouldn’t watch it again. Sometimes less is more and I don’t think Warren or the base really get that. Given my sensibilities, if I were a swing voter instead of a liberal democrat, I think she might wear pretty thin with me.

  209. 209.

    rikyrah

    June 10, 2016 at 9:45 am

    I hope that Balloon Juice will have a thread for the Muhammad Ali Funeral Service today.

  210. 210.

    Miss Bianca

    June 10, 2016 at 9:47 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: yay! If POB is coming to Colorado I wanna be there! Never forget the Pueblo rally I went to in ’08. That was a wonderful day.

  211. 211.

    burnspbesq

    June 10, 2016 at 9:47 am

    @EconWatcher:

    http://www.law.columbia.edu/fac/Michael_Graetz

  212. 212.

    Miss Bianca

    June 10, 2016 at 9:50 am

    @Kay: and this and this alone might make the argument for TPP for me. My home county is #1 in the state for niche agriculture – particularly fruit. Between TPP and the local microdistilleries and cider mills opening, we might actually start planting more orchards rather than tearing them out. This would be awesome to see.

  213. 213.

    amk

    June 10, 2016 at 9:51 am

    @SFAW: Gotta love how both the ladies taunt him on twitter, which he considers his personal fiefdom. The eleventeen other clowns of derp bench didn’t have a clue on how to take on this racist pos.

  214. 214.

    Kay

    June 10, 2016 at 9:51 am

    @dogwood:

    I think the Constitution Society would love both. I think Biden’s was powerful because it goes against “type”. My husband expects Warren to deliver a barn-burner. My husband is like Warren- he’s a brawler- a happy warrior. He doesn’t expect Joe Biden to point out in low, serious tones that it’s pretty freaking scary to have a major Party Presidential candidate going after a judge. “Authoritarian” is right. That would get his attention.

  215. 215.

    Loviatar

    June 10, 2016 at 9:55 am

    @Jeffro:

    We on the left may not be crazy about pitches to the middle and/or conservatives, but it would be very, very smart to start giving those folks an ‘out’ (i.e., reasons they shouldn’t be behind such craven leaders as Trump, Ryan, and McConnell; reasons why they should consider voting for Clinton and down-ticket Dems).

    Why do you still consider anyone calling themselves a Republican sensible/reasonable/moderate, or even conservative? Based upon the current Republican party platform and actions, if you still call yourself a Republican by definition, you’re not sensible or reasonable or moderate or even conservative. These people aren’t “gettable”, why waste time on them and possibly muddy up the general election messaging thereby pissing off your own base. Nahh, leave ’em with the filth they cultivated for the past 50 years.

  216. 216.

    Kay

    June 10, 2016 at 10:02 am

    @Miss Bianca:

    The problem with agriculture though as far as “jobs!” is the vast majority of ag jobs are low status and low wage.

    To me it just goes back to free traders absolute inability to speak plainly and tell the truth. I object to it because I think it comes from a bad place, a place that assumes the huddled masses could NEVER be persuaded on the merits because they are parochial and kind of dumb and trade is very, very complex and “long arc”.

    One of the problems with that is they’re just wrong. Labor unions are at the table on trade deals. They pay more attention to it than anyone else outside the masters of the universe :)

    Telling steelworkers in Cleveland they don’t “understand” dumping is just not true. Sure they do. They lobby on it

  217. 217.

    El Caganer

    June 10, 2016 at 10:02 am

    @SFAW: They not only repeat it, they amplify it. I have some wingnut buddies, and one of them recently informed me that that ex-Secret Service guy who just published the Hillary hatchet job was “the former head of the Secret Service.” All I can do is smile and nod – when people have reached that level of delusion, there isn’t much to say.

  218. 218.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    June 10, 2016 at 10:03 am

    @Kay:

    I agree with this. Joe was deadly serious, and deeply troubled by the threat to the judiciary. I listened much closer to his speech than Liz’s, but there was no twitter takeaway, so of course Liz got the (well deserved) attention.

  219. 219.

    eclare

    June 10, 2016 at 10:05 am

    @rikyrah: A couple were on NBC nightly news last night. Never watch, but I broke down last night to see the MSM coverage. Brought up in first ten or so minutes. The carpenter whose company went bankrupt was interviewed (or his son).

  220. 220.

    SFAW

    June 10, 2016 at 10:07 am

    RIP Gordie Howe

  221. 221.

    Loviatar

    June 10, 2016 at 10:07 am

    @El Caganer:

    Ex-Secret Service agent: Hillary Clinton ‘occasionally violent’

    Byrne recounted seeing a vase “smashed to bits” and Bill Clinton sporting a “real, live, put-a-steak-on-it black eye” one morning in 1995 after a loud fight between the Clintons the night before.

    If only this was true, my respect for her would triple. LOL

  222. 222.

    Miss Bianca

    June 10, 2016 at 10:08 am

    @rikyrah: I think so. I hope so.

    @SFAW: Oh, noes! We were just talking about him the other night!

  223. 223.

    Kay

    June 10, 2016 at 10:11 am

    @Miss Bianca:

    There’s this bizarre “self interest” analysis that goes on with trade. Are labor unions self-interested? Yes. So is everyone else at the table. There’s an assumption that large multi-national companies objectives align with the national interest, always, and that simply isn’t true. They’re in a lot of “nations”.

    The complaint is it’s not balanced. That the advocates who don’t represent monied interests don’t have enough clout. but to get to their compliant you have to admit that all the parties are self-interested, and free traders won’t admit that. Labor unions will freely admit it. It’s the reason they exist. They’re advocates for a specific group.

  224. 224.

    Miss Bianca

    June 10, 2016 at 10:13 am

    @Kay: Well, until this country takes labor concerns seriously enough to put a “labor” report on the tv/radio/internet news right up there with the “business” (read “stock market”) report, serious coverage for trade deals from a labor perspective is probably not going to happen.

  225. 225.

    Kay

    June 10, 2016 at 10:16 am

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne:

    It IS troubling. That Dumbo blundered into a separation of powers issue because he was attempting to distract from his rip-off Trump University is just the icing on the cake. He’s a fucking train wreck. He can’t make these clownish, desperate mistakes as President.

  226. 226.

    SFAW

    June 10, 2016 at 10:21 am

    In other news, purported historian Timothy Stanley (Daily Telegraph) intimates that Hillary and Deadbeat Donnie are the same person:
    1) Age
    2) There are some things they agree on
    3) They’ve been on television “since television was invented, or thereabouts”
    4) They’re members of the 1 percent
    5) They color their hair
    6) They’re New Yorkers
    7) They have marital issues
    8) They face investigations for potential misconduct.
    9) They share a lot family history. (as in, genealogy.) One thing I DID learn from this mook: Gonzalo Curiel’s father arrived in the US in 1920, 10 years before Trump’s mother.
    10) Everybody hates them

    Nice to know that there are Brits — an historian, no less — who are every bit as moronic as the Rethuglicans. Or, as Molly Ivins once wrote about Camille Paglia: “Sheesh! What an asshole.”

    ETA: I re-read it to try to detect snark/parody/satire. Maybe I’ve lost the ability to discern, but I saw it as being a straight commentary.

  227. 227.

    GregB

    June 10, 2016 at 10:24 am

    @Loviatar:
    Ever the panty sniffing creep, Drudge is running with the latest anti Hillary book by Dolly Kyle with lots if Enquirer style pillow talk.

  228. 228.

    Kay

    June 10, 2016 at 10:26 am

    @Miss Bianca:

    It’s not all bad. The FOOD industry is one of the few that is still unionized. The biggest union employer here makes candy. They want free trade for sugar.

    Labor people had a dilemma during Fight for Fifteen because while WENDYs is a low wage employer the giant baker who makes Wendy’s hamburger buns is not :)

    It’s complicated and they really do get into the weeds.

  229. 229.

    Shell

    June 10, 2016 at 10:26 am

    LOL. Not only is she not a prosecutor, I can’t remember if she’s ever even played one.

    Well, she played a defense attorney in ‘The Client’. Maybe she figures that gives her some legal standing.

  230. 230.

    aimai

    June 10, 2016 at 10:29 am

    @Baud: I’m wondering who really owns that list. If I were on it I’d want off,too. I have never stopped recieving emails from people running in obscure democratic races and my mother gets badgered for money all the time and she is really too old to handle those phone calls.

    On the flip side, I think its absurd that Bernie, who mined the Demcoratic Databases for names and contacts isn’t contractually obligated to turn his voter information over to the actual nominee. What does it mean to allow someone to run in the democratic party race if they aren’t committed to building the party? If Bernie refuses to turn the list over he should absolutely not be offered anything at the convention, and the party should make clear those are the rules.

  231. 231.

    aimai

    June 10, 2016 at 10:34 am

    @El Caganer: Don’t you ask them–“Tell me which dates he served as head of the SS? I’d like to look him up.”

  232. 232.

    hovercraft

    June 10, 2016 at 10:37 am

    Matt Taibbi has some very stern words for all of you smug Hillary supporters who are crowing about her victory.

    The arrival of the first female presidential nominee was undoubtedly a huge moment in American history and something even the supporters of Bernie Sanders should recognize as significant and to be celebrated. But the Washington media’s assessment of how we got there was convoluted and self-deceiving.

    This was no ordinary primary race, not a contest between warring factions within the party establishment, á la Obama-Clinton in ’08 or even Gore-Bradley in ’00. This was a barely quelled revolt that ought to have sent shock waves up and down the party, especially since the Vote of No Confidence overwhelmingly came from the next generation of voters. Yet editorialists mostly drew the opposite conclusion.

    The classic example was James Hohmann’s piece in the Washington Post, titled, “Primary wins show Hillary Clinton needs the left less than pro-Sanders liberals think.”

    Hohmann’s thesis was that the “scope and scale” of Clinton’s wins Tuesday night meant mainstream Democrats could now safely return to their traditional We won, screw you posture of “minor concessions” toward the “liberal base.”

    Hohmann focused on the fact that with Bernie out of the way, Hillary now had a path to victory that would involve focusing on Trump’s negatives. Such a strategy won’t require much if any acquiescence toward the huge masses of Democratic voters who just tried to derail her candidacy. And not only is the primary scare over, but Clinton and the centrist Democrats in general are in better shape than ever.

    “Big picture,” Hohmann wrote, “Clinton is running a much better and more organized campaign than she did in 2008.”

    Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/democrats-will-learn-all-the-wrong-lessons-from-brush-with-bernie-20160609#ixzz4BCE3uOwJ
    Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook

    If they had any brains, Beltway Dems and their clucky sycophants like Capeheart would not be celebrating this week. They ought to be horrified to their marrow that the all-powerful Democratic Party ended up having to dig in for a furious rally to stave off a quirky Vermont socialist almost completely lacking big-dollar donors or institutional support.

    They should be freaked out, cowed and relieved, like the Golden State Warriors would be if they needed a big fourth quarter to pull out a win against Valdosta State.

    Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/democrats-will-learn-all-the-wrong-lessons-from-brush-with-bernie-20160609#ixzz4BCEQQNMC
    Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook

    link
    I agree with some of what he says, but this insistence by some Sanders supporters that we have to agree to be taken over by his agenda is ridiculous. Yes he ran a good campaign, and he has some good ideas, but this is still America and until you can show me a way to get at least get 60 progressive senators, better yet 65 in case of some defections. Because unless you are going to miraculously get a constitutional amendment none of his ideas will come to be. The revolution that has failed to muster up sufficient support to defeat Hillary is not going to be big enough or strong enough to pressure congress. Right now 90 % want background checks, majorities want increased social security benefits, but congress doesn’t care. A revolution requires enough revolutionaries to overturn the system, right now they don’t have the numbers.

  233. 233.

    aimai

    June 10, 2016 at 10:37 am

    @dogwood: I think that is wrong though. Swing voters are not paying enough attention to see a speech multiple times. They don’t care about nuance. Voting, for the, is something that happens in a hysterical last minute, not as the result of careful thought. That’s not who swing voters are.

    But in any event there are more than one kind of swing voter in this election. And we need all kinds of approaches to them. Some will resonate with Biden’s quiet approach–but few people have 48 minutes to give to a quiet talk among friends, filled with quotes. And many more will resonate with a punch, twitter based, bitch slap of a political approach. That is what Warren is doing. “What kind of man…the kind of man who will never be President of the United States” is a stand up and cheer moment. Lots of people need that emotion to get going and get out and vote.

  234. 234.

    catclub

    June 10, 2016 at 10:39 am

    @Kay: I thought that running for President might end up for Trump like legislators who are immune from prosecution. My reasoning in that if, in 2017, with Hillary as President, some Prosecutor wanted to file charges against Trump, Trump could claim that he was being attacked be cause he ran against Hillary.

    Although this is true, it is unlikely that Trump could imagine losing, or planning this far ahead.

  235. 235.

    El Caganer

    June 10, 2016 at 10:39 am

    @aimai: I used to try and engage them. The response was always, always the same – a blank look followed by a changed subject. Now I just say, “Fuck it – let’s watch the Phillies. Next round’s on me.” That’s what passes for political discourse outside of my own family.

  236. 236.

    aimai

    June 10, 2016 at 10:40 am

    @hovercraft: Sanders lacked big money donors but he had shitloads of money. He paid a ton for his votes and lost California. She did not and won California. These people need to grasp that “institutional support” is not a crime, its an important component of running the country. We weren’t electing god king, we are electing a leader of teh party and a leader of the country. God Kings don’t need institutional support, or friends of any kind. But Presidents do.

  237. 237.

    Shell

    June 10, 2016 at 10:41 am

    They want free trade for sugar.

    ‘More Sugar!’
    (Obligatory Firesign Theatre reference for those of a certain age.)

  238. 238.

    AnderJ

    June 10, 2016 at 10:43 am

    Apparently Trump tweeted yesterday about Warren:

    Pocahontas is at it again! Goofy Elizabeth Warren, one of the least productive U.S. Senators, has a nasty mouth. Hope she is V.P. choice,”

    So now the press can do a new round of asking everyone if they feel Trump is a racist. It is so easy to get under this guys skin… It like taking candy from a baby…

  239. 239.

    D58826

    June 10, 2016 at 10:43 am

    @Kay: And Dick Polman does a bit of slicing and dicing on ‘old little hands’
    http://www.newsworks.org/index.php/national-interest/item/94468-journalists-unearth-the-dirty-details-of-donnie-deadbeat

  240. 240.

    catclub

    June 10, 2016 at 10:45 am

    @Kay:

    He can’t use the Presidency to threaten judges who are reviewing his business interests.

    Except he can use his presidential campaign, and will, and that is his main interest in life.

    Also, see my other post.

  241. 241.

    MomSense

    June 10, 2016 at 10:51 am

    @dedc79:

    Anyone encountered any jill stein supporters yet? From what ive seen so far, they’re like Sanders diehards but on acid.

    Yes, unfortunately. Sadly for me I’ve encountered them IRL.

  242. 242.

    LAO

    June 10, 2016 at 10:52 am

    Well, I’m pleased to report that, after the Warren double header last night and the President’s appearance on Fallon, the people in my office are all fired up for Hillary and for stopping Trump. It’s like a switch has been flipped and everyone is super excited. Hopefully, we all can maintain our enthusiasm for the next 5+ months.

  243. 243.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    June 10, 2016 at 10:53 am

    So he never graduated. I wonder how many credit hours he accrued? A consultant to 8 different political campaigns. I wonder what he was consulted on? What brand of toilet paper?

    @OzarkHillbilly: His resume says “consultant”, his actual work experience says “office coffee slave”.

  244. 244.

    D58826

    June 10, 2016 at 10:54 am

    @hovercraft: shorter version (well maybe not shorter)- Sen. Warren may win big in Mass. but would be hard pressed to get her family to vote for her in Mississippi. Like it or not there are not enough progressives in the country to win national elections let alone state and local. 6 of the 7 smallest states (all red), with a combined population of a bit over 3 million people have 12 senate seats. The city of LA has 3.8 million people and Calif. has 50 million. Calif. has 2 senate seats. The red states can block action in the senate with 41 votes and not come anywhere near 41% of the population.

    So if progressive/Bernie supporters want to have any influence at the various levels of government they are going to have to learn to live with moderately center right/blue dog democrats. Without those blue dogs Obamacare would have died in Congress just like every other attempt at universal healthcare. Getting your loaf of bread one slice at a time is better than getting no loaf at all.

  245. 245.

    gogol's wife

    June 10, 2016 at 10:54 am

    @rikyrah:

    Her clear, simple language is so effective. She must have been dynamite in the classroom. Sophisticated but crystal-clear.

  246. 246.

    gogol's wife

    June 10, 2016 at 10:55 am

    @Jeffro:

    “It was amazing, it was outstanding, it was a political artillery barrage that didn’t let up all day long.”

    Bernie Sanders is replaced by Sgt. Saunders!

  247. 247.

    hovercraft

    June 10, 2016 at 10:56 am

    @aimai:
    Exactly, I want to shake them, establishment is not a dirty word. It means people who actually know what they are doing. You can join and bring change or you can sit in the cheap seats and hurl insults.

  248. 248.

    D58826

    June 10, 2016 at 11:00 am

    @LAO: I saw somewhere in the last day or two that the difference between Bernie and Liz is that she is liked by her colleagues and he isn’t. And building relationships, esp. friendly ones, is at the heart of building a political movement.

  249. 249.

    hovercraft

    June 10, 2016 at 11:00 am

    @D58826:
    You sellout. Even supposedly mature seasoned people who I used to think were rational and reasonable have bought into the notion that they are part of a huge groundswell out there. If they couldn’t improve on the 2008 turnout numbers nothing is going to change the basic landscape.

  250. 250.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    June 10, 2016 at 11:01 am

    Over on John Scalzi’s thread on Tuesday’s primary, there are so many Sanders supporters saying “I won’t vote for Clinton, but I live in deep-blue California, so it’s OK” that I started worrying about Trump carrying California.

    @Matt McIrvin: You cannot possibly be a CA resident. Don’t worry. Pete Wilson well and truly buried the CA GOP for the next 20-30 years at least all by himself, and Donald may dig the hole even deeper and shove the corpse so far down they may not even be able to find it for another fifty. Sanders, the Dem loser, got more than three times the primary votes that Trump did. The GOP won’t win CA. Period.

  251. 251.

    gene108

    June 10, 2016 at 11:08 am

    With friends like these, who needs enemies:

    “He needs someone highly experienced and very knowledgeable because it’s pretty obvious he doesn’t know a lot about the issues,” McConnell said of a running mate for the mogul.

    McConnell said the obvious lack of knowledge is another reason that the Kentucky Republican has pressed the presumptive GOP nominee to use scripts.

    “You see that in the debates in which he’s participated,” McConnell said. “It’s why I have argued to him publicly and privately that he ought to use a script more often — there is nothing wrong with having prepared texts.”

    http://www.wvtm13.com/politics/mcconnell-obvious-trump-doesnt-know-issues/39995206

  252. 252.

    D58826

    June 10, 2016 at 11:20 am

    @gene108:’old little hands’ doesn’t need a script. He needs a straight jacket!

  253. 253.

    Cat48

    June 10, 2016 at 11:20 am

    @D58826

    A large number of Bernie’s supporters told.the.NYT that they don’t necessarily agree with his.policies. They just like him. That seems,odd?

  254. 254.

    Chris

    June 10, 2016 at 11:24 am

    @Jeffro:

    I mean, the Democrats are welcome to try and I think they will – politicians know to try out as many voters as possible.

    I just don’t think there’s much left in the way of persuadable conservatives. The Southern Strategy is fifty years old. At this point, most of what can be reaped has been reaped. As far as being repulsed by Trump goes… I think pretty much anyone who actually cares about racism as an issue realized years if not decades ago that the GOP was on the wrong side of that. The people who stayed in it are the people who don’t actually care, they just have image and self-image concerns because “racist” is a dirty word. That’s not the foundation of a strong crossover movement.

    If my Facebook Wingnut Barometer is any indication, the way to deal with their issues is by shifting the conversation to how liberals and nonwhites are the real racists (bonus point for the guy I saw last week enraged by the violence against Trump supporters and claiming that “I don’t like Trump, but the only violence I’ve seen in this election season is against his supporters, not by them! Why won’t the liberal media talk about it!”) In other words, same thing they’ve always done. By November, they’ll all have fallen in line, happily convinced that all right, Trump may be a little rough around the edges, but the savage hordes of black racists and union thugs and liberal elitists is much worse, and we need to support him so that they won’t win.

  255. 255.

    O. Felix Culpa

    June 10, 2016 at 11:24 am

    @Miss Bianca: If Prez Bamz comes to Pueblo again, I’ll drive up for it!…and then maybe a BJ meet-up afterwards to celebrate. :)

  256. 256.

    Captain C

    June 10, 2016 at 11:24 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:

    Susan Sarandon guarantees an indictment is inevitable.

    Weren’t Janet Weiss and Annie Savoy AUSAs?

  257. 257.

    Miss Bianca

    June 10, 2016 at 11:30 am

    @O. Felix Culpa: That would be way fun! let’s hope!

  258. 258.

    Matt McIrvin

    June 10, 2016 at 11:44 am

    @CONGRATULATIONS!: Seriously, I know Trump won’t carry California.

    Really, all this talk about Sanders folk strategizing about safely voting Green or Libertarian as long as they’re in safe blue or red states just freaks me out a little because it’s such an echo of 2000. There were clever websites Naderites set up where people could “exchange” their votes: a person in a swing state would promise to vote for Al Gore in exchange for someone else in a safe state voting for Nader on their behalf, so that Nader could get as much of the popular vote as possible without being a spoiler. They were so sure it’d be OK.

  259. 259.

    ruemara

    June 10, 2016 at 11:47 am

    @Kay: I’m going to say no. Having witnessed how political players work, even with sworn enemies, no. The Sanders reputation and his actions say he’s an utter asshole who couldn’t play on a team at all, but the team he tried to co-opt knows a thing or two about optics. They look decent and seem to be recognizing your perception of Sanders’ benefits to this cycle while Sanders goes off and turns people off even more by being himself.

  260. 260.

    dogwood

    June 10, 2016 at 11:51 am

    @hovercraft:
    The idea that the Sanders campaign is the future of the party makes me sad. I’ve always been an active liberal democrat, but now I’d call myself an Obama democrat. That’s the coalition of voters that speaks to my vision of the future of the party and a party I’d work for. The Sanders movement is just too white and too angry for this 62 year old white woman. I hope Taibii is wrong, but what will be will be.

  261. 261.

    Chris

    June 10, 2016 at 12:04 pm

    @dogwood:

    Too white, I get.

    Too angry, I don’t get. There’s plenty in the system to be legitimately angry about. I’d say they’re angry at the wrong targets (at times), but I’d also say that if anything they’re not angry enough, or at least angry only about too narrow a range of things – it’d be nice to see as much anger about injustice along racial and gender lines as you do along class lines.

  262. 262.

    tybee

    June 10, 2016 at 12:19 pm

    @Splitting Image:

    On the gripping hand

    ha!

  263. 263.

    dogwood

    June 10, 2016 at 1:11 pm

    @Chris:
    That’s your opinion and I respect it. I’ve watched for eight years what angry voters can do to a political party and the country and it’s not for me. I get plenty angry about inequality and injustice, but I’m not resentful. And populism is all about resentment. I live modestly on a modest income and I don’t feel like a victim or that the system is rigged against me; I feel lucky. But Bernie has hit a nerve because some of my similarly situated Bernie- voting friends are now feeling pretty aggrieved. More power to them, but it’s just not for me.

  264. 264.

    misterpuff

    June 10, 2016 at 1:16 pm

    @Mustang Bobby: Mr.Peabody has an excuse, he would trip over a necktie.

  265. 265.

    nutella

    June 10, 2016 at 1:18 pm

    Yesterday @Adam L Silverman said that the Cherokee Nation had checked Warren’s background and determined that she is 1/28 Cherokee which is enough to be eligible to join the tribe. I can’t find any links among the twenty tons of Pocohontas snark. Can Adam or anyone else provide a link for this?

  266. 266.

    misterpuff

    June 10, 2016 at 2:31 pm

    Hill dude reminds me of the woodchuck with the bow tie who’s function is to be the clueless Dem pundit from Tom Tomorrow’s This Modern World.

  267. 267.

    sm*t cl*de

    June 10, 2016 at 3:07 pm

    @Kay:

    Trump trying to influence a court case, civil litigation that has no national import or relevance WHILE running for President.

    The emerging narrative is that Trump is running for President because of all his civil litigation, and all the people he owes… he desperately needs access to stealable assets.

  268. 268.

    Jeffro

    June 10, 2016 at 3:24 pm

    @Loviatar:

    Why do you still consider anyone calling themselves a Republican sensible/reasonable/moderate, or even conservative? Based upon the current Republican party platform and actions, if you still call yourself a Republican by definition, you’re not sensible or reasonable or moderate or even conservative. These people aren’t “gettable”, why waste time on them and possibly muddy up the general election messaging thereby pissing off your own base. Nahh, leave ’em with the filth they cultivated for the past 50 years.

    I think some of them…like say my mom, lifelong religious person and conservative…are completely appalled by Trump and at least as appalled by Ryan’s/McConnell’s/Christie’s/McCain’s/etc sheer craven willingness to go along with a clearly unfit person.

    Mom can’t be the ONLY one out there…

  269. 269.

    sm*t cl*de

    June 10, 2016 at 3:25 pm

    @misterpuff:
    And yet, he is the best they could find to cast in the role of “Frustrated Democrat turned Trump supporter, voice of an angry, idealistic, robbed generation of voters”.
    The best they could find.

  270. 270.

    SFAW

    June 10, 2016 at 4:49 pm

    @sm*t cl*de:

    The emerging narrative is that Trump is running for President because of all his civil litigation, and all the people he owes… he desperately needs access to stealable assets.

    Cool story, bro.

    Wait … sorry about that, I was channeling one of our trolls.

    Where is this narrative “emerging”? This is the first I’ve heard of it, would be interested to see where it originated.

    Or did it originate with you, and you’re hoping someone takes it seriously and runs with it? [If so, I doff my cap to you.]

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