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the 10% who apparently lack object permanence

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You are here: Home / Politics / Politicans / Hillary Clinton 2016 / Open Thread: Us Ladyfolk and Our Bean-Counting Grievances

Open Thread: Us Ladyfolk and Our Bean-Counting Grievances

by Anne Laurie|  June 11, 20165:04 am| 252 Comments

This post is in: Hillary Clinton 2016, Open Threads, Women's Rights Are Human Rights

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Pretty sure Elizabeth Warren endorsing Hillary Clinton on the Rachel Maddow Show passes the Bechdel test, but someone check my math.

— Jenna Lowenstein (@just_jenna) June 10, 2016

This tweet needs to be bookmarked by every Sunday show producer https://t.co/bLhVkJMG4D

— Wyeth Ruthven (@wyethwire) June 10, 2016

There’s an old saying, “It’s only when the tide goes out that you can tell who’s been swimming naked.” And it’s only when a few brave, strong women fight their way into the conversation that you can tell which men have been using “Of course we’d hire more women, but… “ as a figleaf.

Just as President Obama’s campaign and presidency have been a (frequently embarrassing) revelation about how much racism was baked into “our” political system, the upcoming months and years are going to be enlightening for a lot of well-meaning ‘feminist’ men… not to mention the women in their lives.
.

aaamazing. https://t.co/1Ch0EH0bB8 pic.twitter.com/1peiHcXyem

— southpaw (@nycsouthpaw) June 9, 2016

Speaking of why feminism matters…

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Reader Interactions

252Comments

  1. 1.

    rikyrah

    June 11, 2016 at 5:28 am

    Good Morning ?, Everyone ?

  2. 2.

    rikyrah

    June 11, 2016 at 5:31 am

    Because, if they could just “Find them”, of course they would hire them.
    Yeah, ok, I call bullshyt.
    Non-Whites hear it all the time.
    All the time.
    AS IF there isn’t a pool of educated non-Whites from which to choose.
    Lips pursed.

  3. 3.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 11, 2016 at 5:33 am

    the upcoming months and years are going to be enlightening for a lot of well-meaning ‘feminist’ men…

    Hey, I resemble that remark.

    @rikyrah: Gonna make sure you beat everybody else to it this morn, eh?

  4. 4.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 11, 2016 at 5:42 am

    Rancher on horseback lassoes would-be bike bandit in Walmart parking lot

    Not a lot is known about Borba because he is new in town, Adams said, but “it appears he will be a good fit. Eagle Point is a small city, and people watch out for each other. That’s exactly what he did.”

    David Stepp said that he had been sitting in his car nearby when he saw the cowboy trotting across the parking lot on his horse after the thief, who was trying to escape on the stolen bicycle. When the thief dismounted and tried to flee on foot, Stepp watched as the cowboy lassoed him by the ankle. The thief then grabbed a tree and held on to it until the police arrived. “Best day of my life,” Stepp said.

    “I was laughing too hard to intervene,” he said. “I’ve seen it all, but I’ve never seen anything like that in my entire life.”
    ……
    “The guy was just hanging back like ‘you ain’t gonna steal no bike in front of me’,” Stepp said about Borba. The owner of the bike was “just happy to have her bike back”, he added.

  5. 5.

    Jeff Spender

    June 11, 2016 at 5:42 am

    The Democratic State Central Committee is meeting today in Michigan. I can’t make it, unfortunately, but I fear shenanigans.

    Hope I’m wrong.

  6. 6.

    Amir Khalid

    June 11, 2016 at 5:51 am

    Is that Fleetwood Mac’s Dreams I hear playing?

  7. 7.

    Baud

    June 11, 2016 at 5:58 am

    @rikyrah: Good morning.

  8. 8.

    Baud

    June 11, 2016 at 5:58 am

    @Jeff Spender: I hope so too.

  9. 9.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 11, 2016 at 6:03 am

    @Jeff Spender: Shenanigans?

  10. 10.

    Baud

    June 11, 2016 at 6:08 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Kudos to that guy for not shooting the time thief.

  11. 11.

    Zinsky

    June 11, 2016 at 6:12 am

    I sure hope Elizabeth Warren is Hillary’s VP choice. That will give mock feminist guys a chance to demonstrate their true feminist chops!

  12. 12.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 11, 2016 at 6:17 am

    @Baud: I was thinking that, “Well duh, he’s a cowboy, of course he didn’t have a gun.” It is funny that Hollywood has given us the image of the All American Cowboy ™ with his shootin’ iron on his hip, when the reality is, I never met a cowboy who actually carried a gun while he was working.

    They get in the way.

  13. 13.

    Jeff Spender

    June 11, 2016 at 6:18 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: My Bernie friends that are “BernieOrBust” and “NeverHillary” are going to the meeting with the intent to change the platform and/or rules (noting that they’re telling “the establishment” that they can’t get rid of them). A few are saying that the MDP hasn’t been transparent about the meeting, which isn’t true–what is true is that the State Party website is still lacking certain features due to the merger of five servers into two and eventually one. Not a conspiracy, just an update to an inefficient system that is slow and expensive.

    They are planning protests outside of the high school in which the meeting will be held, accusing the party leadership (which remained neutral in an official capacity) of being a corrupt establishment. Sigh. I know the MDP State Chair personally. He’s a nerd, a former State Representative, but he’s not corrupt.

    It’s just frustrating. I guess because they’re on the outside looking in they think it is corrupt, but a lot of these people are new to politics on this level and haven’t done the work to be “on the inside.”

  14. 14.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 11, 2016 at 6:25 am

    OT: I decided to try and take a pic shot on a cloudy day and photoshop it to a sunny day. Here’s an example:

    Original pic of Half Dome,

    Half Dome on a sunny day.

    What do y’all think?

  15. 15.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 11, 2016 at 6:26 am

    @Jeff Spender: Sigh.

    @Zinsky: I am hoping not. Warren is the only politician who does not directly represent me that I have ever given money to. I love her that much right where she is.

  16. 16.

    Baud

    June 11, 2016 at 6:27 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: I’ve never met an actual cowboy.

    @Jeff Spender: One thing is like to see Dems invest in is tech. It’s criminal how little information in 2016 is available on the web.

  17. 17.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    June 11, 2016 at 6:27 am

    Sen. Elizabeth Warren huddled with Hillary Clinton at the presumptive Democratic nominee’s Washington, D.C., home this morning, the day after the Massachusetts Democrat endorsed Clinton’s bid for the White House.

    Warren’s visit to Clinton’s home lasted 66 minutes. As she departed, Warren ignored questions from the media about what the two discussed in their meeting. A source familiar with the meeting tells ABC News that the two conferred about how they can work together in the upcoming general election campaign to advance the progressive agenda and defeat Donald Trump.

  18. 18.

    Baud

    June 11, 2016 at 6:29 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: That’s neat. You even got rid of the clouds.

  19. 19.

    Jeff Spender

    June 11, 2016 at 6:29 am

    @Baud: I’ve convinced my county party it is a good investment. So they made me the webmaster. I run the website, the social media accounts, the mail lists. It’s a lot of work to do on a volunteer basis. But we need this infrastructure.

  20. 20.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 11, 2016 at 6:30 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I love her that much right where she is.

    I agree.

  21. 21.

    Baud

    June 11, 2016 at 6:30 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: They were probably baking cookies.

  22. 22.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 11, 2016 at 6:31 am

    @Baud: I’ve taken some pics of just the sky for just this purpose.

    ETA: Clouds are easy to get rid of, just mask them out. The problem is making the replacement look natural. It’s done using a gradient mask the varies the intensity of the sky layer so it’s lighter towards the horizon.

  23. 23.

    Baud

    June 11, 2016 at 6:31 am

    @Jeff Spender: Wow. I’d vote for you for that effort alone.

  24. 24.

    Baud

    June 11, 2016 at 6:32 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    Can’t know for sure, but I doubt she wants it.

  25. 25.

    Baud

    June 11, 2016 at 6:33 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: I have Photoshop but I never made the time investment needed to learn how to use it properly.

  26. 26.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 11, 2016 at 6:36 am

    @Baud: It takes a significant time investment to learn Photoshop, the advantage is that there’s lots of stuff out there on the intertubes to help.

  27. 27.

    Baud

    June 11, 2016 at 6:38 am

    CNN. I’ve never heard of this term.

    Oregon resident Jamie Shupe, who identifies as neither male nor female, can legally be considered nonbinary, a judge ruled.

    In what legal experts believe is the state’s first such ruling, Judge Amy Holmes Hehn ruled Friday that Shupe’s sex has been changed from female to nonbinary.

  28. 28.

    Baud

    June 11, 2016 at 6:40 am

    Any Voice fans? CNN

    Singer Christina Grimmie, who starred in NBC’s “The Voice,” died early Saturday after a gunman shot her following a performance in Florida, authorities said.

    A man armed with two guns walked up to the 22-year-old singer as she was signing autographs late Friday night and opened fire, Orlando Police spokeswoman Wanda Ford said.

    The gunman fatally shot himself after Grimmie’s brother tackled him, according to authorities.

  29. 29.

    Punchy

    June 11, 2016 at 6:41 am

    @Baud: And cleaning and getting lost and comparing manis and pedis….

  30. 30.

    Baud

    June 11, 2016 at 6:44 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: I think we’ve talked about this before. I used to be into film photography back in the day. Tried to pick it back up with digital, but never found the time.

  31. 31.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 11, 2016 at 6:47 am

    @Baud: I saw that on the late news here, I didn’t hear that she had died.

  32. 32.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 11, 2016 at 6:52 am

    @Baud: I think we have, I was also was into film back in my teen years. I even had my own darkroom. It does take time and it can be expensive. The first step is to get a pretty good camera, and it MUST shoot RAW(any of the DSLR’s or high end mirror-less cameras will meet that criteria). My Samsung cameras, the NX500 and the NX300(Infrared) are mirror-less.

  33. 33.

    Baud

    June 11, 2016 at 6:52 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Just another statistic now.

  34. 34.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 11, 2016 at 6:52 am

    @Baud: A long time ago in another life I spent a season working on a small (5,000 acres) hobby ranch in WY. We had one ‘journeyman’ cowboy and a second cowboy ‘apprentice’. I also worked with several from surrounding ranches and the Mint Bar in Sheridan was a favorite hangout for cowboys too.

  35. 35.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 11, 2016 at 6:52 am

    @Baud: It’s the price of freedumb.

  36. 36.

    Baud

    June 11, 2016 at 6:53 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Do the mirrorless cameras use a prism or a separate viewfinder? Or is there now a digital way to not have a mirror?

  37. 37.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 11, 2016 at 6:54 am

    @Baud: My feeling as well

  38. 38.

    JPL

    June 11, 2016 at 6:56 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: You really have a talent.

  39. 39.

    Baud

    June 11, 2016 at 6:57 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Neato. Can’t say I’ve had any experience even remotely close to that.

  40. 40.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 11, 2016 at 7:01 am

    @Baud: And then we have this:

    The Georgia law governing name changes does not deal with transgender name changes and there is no appellate court decision on the issue, Roper wrote in his order denying the change. But he noted that the law does not allow a name change “with a view to deprive another fraudulently of any right under the law”.

    “Name changes which allow a person to assume the role of a person of the opposite sex are, in effect, a type of fraud on the general public,” Roper wrote. “Such name changes also offend the sensibilities and mores of a substantial portion of the citizens of this state.”

  41. 41.

    Kay

    June 11, 2016 at 7:01 am

    Hillary Clinton plans to hold a public event on Cleveland’s East Side on Monday, in her first major appearance as the presumptive Democratic nominee for president.
    Clinton is scheduled to appear at Team Wendy, a Collinwood manufacturer that makes products to protect against serious and potentially life-threatening injuries. The event, which is open to the public, is set to begin at 12:30 p.m. at the Cleveland Industrial Innovation Center, 17000 St. Clair Avenue, according to a release from Clinton’s campaign.

  42. 42.

    Baud

    June 11, 2016 at 7:03 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Just calling balls and strikes.

    @Kay: Yay, Ohio! Swing state forever! You going?

  43. 43.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 11, 2016 at 7:05 am

    @Baud: Life is worth living.

  44. 44.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 11, 2016 at 7:10 am

    @Baud: There is no prism or mirror, the display on the back is what the sensor picks up. The downside of my camera is there is not separate electronic viewer(the model above mine(NX1) does, it’s also about twice the price), so it can be difficult to see in bright sun. I’ve put a matte screen protector that does help with the glare.

  45. 45.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 11, 2016 at 7:10 am

    @JPL: Thanks, (blushes).

  46. 46.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 11, 2016 at 7:11 am

    @Baud: Somebody needs to tell the judge that was strike 3 and “YOUR OUT!!!”

  47. 47.

    Raven

    June 11, 2016 at 7:13 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: When I was a kid in LA in the late 50’s there were places where kids could rent horses and take them out without adults. We’d run them in the dry river beds and go as fast as they would run! Imagine the liability.

  48. 48.

    amk

    June 11, 2016 at 7:17 am

    @Kay: After two term kasich, ohioans must have caught a clue by now?

  49. 49.

    Viva BrisVegas

    June 11, 2016 at 7:17 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    “a traditionally and obviously male name”

    Presumably the judge refers to such obviously male names as Marion, Shirley, Beverley, Evelyn, Wendy, Lesley and Hillary.

  50. 50.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 11, 2016 at 7:18 am

    Hmmm, just noticed that they upgraded the firmware on my camera. I just finished the upgrade, and the autofocus in low light is much better, wish I had this when I went and to pics a the model show.

  51. 51.

    Raven

    June 11, 2016 at 7:19 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: wireless update ?

  52. 52.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 11, 2016 at 7:19 am

    @Viva BrisVegas: Don’t call me Shirley!

  53. 53.

    Baud

    June 11, 2016 at 7:19 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    the model show.

    Is that what you’re calling it now?

  54. 54.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 11, 2016 at 7:19 am

    @Raven: I think it can, I did it via my PC.

  55. 55.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 11, 2016 at 7:20 am

    @Baud: It’s official title was, AsianModelPalooza.

  56. 56.

    Baud

    June 11, 2016 at 7:22 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Sound like more fun than a cowboy ranch.

  57. 57.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 11, 2016 at 7:23 am

    @Baud: It floated my boat.

  58. 58.

    Kay

    June 11, 2016 at 7:24 am

    @Baud:

    No. I have to work and it’s the day before my youngest child’s birthday. I have to prepare! :)

    This is good, though:

    Clinton is also planning to attend a private fundraiser the same day in southwest Ohio at the home of Cincinnati Mayor John Cranley.

    Big-city mayors are important for Presidential races in Ohio. She has to crush Trump in urban areas. Huge margins. This is where Trump’s not knowing anyone in GOP politics will hurt him and her being a long-time Democrat will help her. Trump has to form some kind of working relationship with GOP politicos and electeds and he’s spent 2 years saying they’re all corrupt and stupid. They don’t know anything about him.

  59. 59.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 11, 2016 at 7:24 am

    @Raven: Yeeesh. It was a different world we grew up in.

  60. 60.

    Iowa Old Lady

    June 11, 2016 at 7:28 am

    @Jeff Spender: Is “corrupt” just an all-purpose insult now, or does it mean something specific?

  61. 61.

    bystander

    June 11, 2016 at 7:29 am

    TCM is showing The Wasp Woman. Proto-feminist examination of a woman’s dependence on a youth serum that turns her into a murderous wasp.

    Yesterday’s outrage about the “prayer” for the POTUS’s death led by a US Senator is now matched by the news of the idiot Ted Poe complaining his district isn’t getting enough funding for Zika concerns. This, after he joined in shorting the funding. How can these morons continue to send their own executioners to DC?

  62. 62.

    Baud

    June 11, 2016 at 7:31 am

    @Kay: Awesome. When you’re happy, I’m happy.

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    Corrupt = neoliberal

    Neoliberal = corrupt

    I can’t wait until we all start speaking in emoji.

  63. 63.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    June 11, 2016 at 7:35 am

    I don’t want to see a president of the United States saying things which change the character of the generations of Americans that are following.

    Presidents have an impact on the nature of our nation, and trickle-down racism, trickle-down bigotry, trickle-down misogyny, all these things are extraordinarily dangerous to the heart and character of America.

    — Mittens

    Maybe you should have thought of that 5 years ago when you helped normalize him to the base

  64. 64.

    Jeff Spender

    June 11, 2016 at 7:35 am

    @Iowa Old Lady: My guess is “corrupt” is whatever they disagree with. They use that language–“corrupt” describes the in group with the power and connections–i.e., the establishment that they revile.

    Everything that they do is powered by “the people,” which is odd, because last I checked we were all people.

  65. 65.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 11, 2016 at 7:39 am

    @Kay:

    This is where Trump’s not knowing anyone in GOP politics will hurt him and her being a long-time Democrat will help her.

    A number of Bernie people being surprised I voted for Hillary, ask “Why?” That fact is always near the top of the list.

  66. 66.

    Kay

    June 11, 2016 at 7:40 am

    @amk:

    The Kasich thing is really interesting. He and Trump were sniping at one another (well, Trump was on Twitter) last week.

    Ohio Gov. John Kasich said Thursday he still isn’t ready to endorse presumptive Republican nominee Donald Trump.
    Why would I feel compelled to support someone whose positions I kind of fundamentally disagree with?” he told Fox News.
    Kasich suspended his own run for the White House a little more than a month ago and has since declined from endorsing Trump, decrying the divisiveness and “name-calling” he says has been a part of the campaign.
    “Mr. Trump called me and said, ‘What are you going to do to support me?’ and I said, ‘We’re like two companies. We have a difference vision, a different value system, and a different objective,’ So its pretty hard to put that together,” Kasich told Fox News’ Bill Hemmer, referencing a conversation that occurred a couple weeks ago.

    I feel like it’s a dilemma for Trump, because his whole thing is “outsider” but the truth is he needs these people. Kasich is taking the “maverick” role- saying he won’t be a good soldier.

    I love “what are you going to do to support me?” from Trump. Literally everything he says just screams “spoiled brat” to me. Me, me, me. This is the big deal maker? He calls his former opponent and makes demands in the governor’s own state? I bet the alleged expertise at “deal making” is phony too.

  67. 67.

    JPL

    June 11, 2016 at 7:42 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: This.. As long as Trump was preaching birthism, he was welcome. It was important to destroy the President.

  68. 68.

    Schlemazel Khan

    June 11, 2016 at 7:43 am

    @Viva BrisVegas:
    I had an aunt, Florence, that used to get angry abusive calls from people who were looking for a guy of the same name who was a construction boss.

  69. 69.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 11, 2016 at 7:43 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Better late than never.

  70. 70.

    Kay

    June 11, 2016 at 7:43 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I think it hurt Obama and he was an actual Democrat. He hadn’t been around nationally long enough to know them or help any of them, where the Clintons basically campaign for Democrats every two years. I felt like it was one of the reasons he was out there alone so much in his first term.

  71. 71.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 11, 2016 at 7:48 am

    Relax everyone: Six times as many Sanders supporters would shift to Clinton over Trump – poll

    That number is only going to climb the closer we get to election day.

  72. 72.

    Schlemazel Khan

    June 11, 2016 at 7:52 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    And it is also near the top of the list of reasons that they voted against Hillary.

    The reason Drumpf won the GOP nod is very much related to his not being ‘of the Party’. After years of their failing to create nirvana while dog whistling the hell out of their message the GOP is now considered part of the problem. Drumpf promises to finally deliver the tax and rule free heaven and he can be trusted because he is not soiled by contact with the Party and the proof is he says the racist and sexist things out loud.

  73. 73.

    burnspbesq

    June 11, 2016 at 7:55 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    This is why we have appellate courts.

  74. 74.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    June 11, 2016 at 7:57 am

    Obama campaigning Richmond Virginia Coliseum – 2008 (photo)

    Trump campaigning Richmond Virginia Coliseum – yesterday (photo)

  75. 75.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 11, 2016 at 7:59 am

    @Kay: I observed that too. I got kind of a “you haven’t earned this shot yet” vibe.

  76. 76.

    kd bart

    June 11, 2016 at 8:01 am

    @Jeff Spender: Usually used along with the word “Corporatist”.

  77. 77.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    June 11, 2016 at 8:02 am

    Washington Post — Most Read Articles:

    1. Trump’s ‘Pocahontas’ attack leaves fellow Republicans squirming (again)

    2. Ryan grilled at Romney summit, where a CEO compares Trump to Hitler

    3. At Romney summit, anti-Trump Republicans in exile ponder their party’s future

    4. Donald Trump: ‘I am the least racist person’

    5. Donald Trump’s polling surge has faltered — and Democrats haven’t even united

  78. 78.

    Matt McIrvin

    June 11, 2016 at 8:02 am

    @Kay:

    I love “what are you going to do to support me?” from Trump. Literally everything he says just screams “spoiled brat” to me. Me, me, me. This is the big deal maker? He calls his former opponent and makes demands in the governor’s own state? I bet the alleged expertise at “deal making” is phony too.

    You know that report that came out about Trump’s talent at stiffing people and fighting them in court when they demand to get paid? I think that is the Art of the Deal. That’s his dealmaking talent–the ability to use his brand to get people to sign contracts, and then bluster and stonewall his way to breaking them in a manner favorable to himself, over and over and over.

  79. 79.

    burnspbesq

    June 11, 2016 at 8:03 am

    I’m having a Cole-esque (or is it Colian?) morning. Woke up at 3:30 to use the facilities and stepped in a bunch of dog-puke in a dark hallway. Delightful.

  80. 80.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 11, 2016 at 8:06 am

    @burnspbesq: It’s worse when they puke in the bed.

  81. 81.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    June 11, 2016 at 8:06 am

    (WASHINGTON POST) — Trump’s ‘Pocahontas’ attack leaves GOP squirming again

    The real estate developer has repeatedly invoked the 17th-century Native American figure to refer to Sen. Elizabeth Warren, alarming some Republican lawmakers just as the furor over his barbs about a Latino judge was starting to subside.

    ***

    Stuart Stevens — the chief strategist on Romney’s 2012 presidential bid, who, like Romney, has vowed not to vote for Trump — said the candidate’s use of “Pocahontas” to attack Warren was both racist and inappropriate.

    “If you said this in a sixth-grade class, the teacher would tell you, ‘Don’t say this,’ ” Stevens said.

    “This is a sick guy, and Americans are not longing for a president who’s going to go out and use ethnic slurs against people,” he said. “It’s amusing in the same way telling dirty jokes around a frat house can get laughs, but most people grow out of that. It’s childish.”

  82. 82.

    amk

    June 11, 2016 at 8:06 am

    @Kay: One self absorbed egotist vs another self absorbed egotist, who ‘won’ his state, fight should be interesting. Hopefully both kasich and jeb! will stay pissed off at the kkklown till Nov and work against him stealthily.

  83. 83.

    burnspbesq

    June 11, 2016 at 8:07 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:

    Trump will say that somebody photoshopped 20,000 cheering supporters out of that photo, and 20 million people will believe him.

  84. 84.

    The Ancient Randonneur

    June 11, 2016 at 8:07 am

    Not to put to fine a point on your post AL (which, of course means I am going to do exactly that) whenthe men of tech talk about diversity what they mean is they want more White Women in tech. They aren’t being overtly racist, but that is the picture of diversity they have in mind. Caucasian and Asian male startup cofounders receive most of the funding from angel investors and VCs. Every other demographic share the remaining very small piece of the pie. African American women get the tiniest bit of that cash from investors. It’s actually disgraceful, and quite telling, how difficult it is for anyone not in the club to get funding.

    So yeah, let’s work toward diversity in the tech industry. I just want to make sure that gender diversity doesn’t just cover my daughters, but the daughters of all parents.

  85. 85.

    burnspbesq

    June 11, 2016 at 8:09 am

    @kd bart:

    I thought “corporatist whore” was the preferred usage.

  86. 86.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 11, 2016 at 8:10 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: The “party leaders” don’t know the Republican rank and file. The rank(and they’re really rank) and file love this “politically incorrect” stuff.

  87. 87.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    June 11, 2016 at 8:10 am

    One of the toughest questions for Ryan came from Meg Whitman, the chief executive of Hewlett-Packard and a longtime friend of Romney’s who helped bankroll a Republican anti-Trump super PAC this spring. Whitman asked Ryan how he could endorse someone with, in her judgment, such poor character and whose campaign has been based on personal attacks and division. According to two people present, Whitman said Trump is the latest in a long line of historic demagogues, explicitly comparing him to Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini.

  88. 88.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 11, 2016 at 8:11 am

    @burnspbesq: I’ve had that dream, except it’s always cat puke.

  89. 89.

    Kay

    June 11, 2016 at 8:12 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    There was that, envy or thinking he jumped the line, but it’s also relationships and those are real. I feel like there’s this sort of attractive myth that “outsiders” can crash in and “shake things up” and the only people who will resist them will be people with”vested interests in the status quo”. I think it’s much more human than that. It’s “you don’t know us at all and thus you can’t tell us what to do”. People feel like they deserve recognition and credit for their experience and they do. They’re right.

  90. 90.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 11, 2016 at 8:12 am

    @burnspbesq: I thought it was “corporatist warmongering whore”.

  91. 91.

    Baud

    June 11, 2016 at 8:12 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: The sight of Republicans questioning Cleek’s Law is something to behold.

  92. 92.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 11, 2016 at 8:13 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: I guess Meg won’t be Trump’s VP.

  93. 93.

    burnspbesq

    June 11, 2016 at 8:15 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    Yes and no. The initial gross-out factor is higher, but buying a new mattress pad costs less than getting the carpet cleaned.

  94. 94.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    June 11, 2016 at 8:17 am

    @burnspbesq: No, she throws up on the comforter. It’s a charming smell.

  95. 95.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    June 11, 2016 at 8:18 am

    Barack Obama — 1979 (photo)

    Barack Obama — 2016 (photo)

  96. 96.

    Kay

    June 11, 2016 at 8:19 am

    @amk:

    Kasich is actually weirdly detached as a governor. He’s like a “hand’s off” CEO. He treats the other state officials like under-performing division chiefs. He ACTUALLY BELIEVES government is a business. There will be a mad scramble for GOP state officials to figure out where they should stand re; Trump and Kasich because they are ALL running for governor. Their primary field for the governor’s race will have every executive branch officer – auditor, AG, Sec of State, Treasurer, Lt Governor. They’re all campaigning for themselves.

  97. 97.

    Aleta

    June 11, 2016 at 8:23 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: I find that cat puke in the dark is colder, because of the slime that rises between the toes.

  98. 98.

    Matt McIrvin

    June 11, 2016 at 8:27 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: We confuse cowboys with Old West gunfighters, who I don’t suppose were usually cowboys at all.

  99. 99.

    Amir Khalid

    June 11, 2016 at 8:28 am

    For those who are not planning to buy Harry Potter And The Cursed Child in book form, or can’t get tickets, The Daily Beast has published the plot of the two-part play. (I chose not to look.) They just like being dicks, I guess.

  100. 100.

    Ultraviolet Thunder

    June 11, 2016 at 8:28 am

    I’ve never met an actual cowboy.

    Every one I saw in NM and AZ was Hispanic. Central casting wouldn’t have given them a second look, even if they could sing.

  101. 101.

    D58826

    June 11, 2016 at 8:28 am

    @Jeff Spender: It would be terrible if Bernie’s legacy was a left wing tea party like purity patrol. With ‘corrupt’ taking the place of ‘patriot’

  102. 102.

    Betty Cracker

    June 11, 2016 at 8:28 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Very nice work!

    @Baud: One of my cousins was a cowboy for a while; he worked on a big cattle ranch doing cowboy shit all day. I asked him if he put “cowboy” on forms that asked for his occupation, and he did!

  103. 103.

    debbie

    June 11, 2016 at 8:29 am

    @Kay:

    Do you think they’ve given up that fine Ohio GOP tradition of job swapping?

  104. 104.

    Denali

    June 11, 2016 at 8:30 am

    @Bill in Glendale,

    Why do you hate clouds?

  105. 105.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 11, 2016 at 8:30 am

    @Kay:

    I think it’s much more human than that. It’s “you don’t know us at all and thus you can’t tell us what to do”. People feel like they deserve recognition and credit for their experience and they do. They’re right.

    Absolutely, part of the reason I so hated all the anti super delegates crap. As far as I am concerned, they’ve earned that status. And Bernie’s continuous railing against the “corrupt process/party/whatever” was only damaging his relations to people he needs.

  106. 106.

    Reggie Mantle

    June 11, 2016 at 8:31 am

    @Jeff Spender:

    I guess because they’re on the outside looking in they think it is corrupt, but a lot of these people are new to politics on this level and haven’t done the work to be “on the inside.”

    Ah. Hillarysplaining.

  107. 107.

    debbie

    June 11, 2016 at 8:33 am

    @Baud:

    But kept that little plane/bird!

    I used to do a lot of Photoshopping, but I used cloning and sampling. Bill’s way seems much smarter.

  108. 108.

    Betty Cracker

    June 11, 2016 at 8:35 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Someone should tweet that to Trump.

  109. 109.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 11, 2016 at 8:37 am

    A cross-species love affair between a kangaroo and a pet pig kept in captivity in Australia has caught the attention of local residents.

    Greg Dick, owner of rest and fuel stop the Aileron Roadhouse in the Northern Territory, told the BBC the two animals have “been in love for a while”. He said the kangaroo, which according to Northern Territory News is named “Fuck It” for his libido, has been sleeping with, cuddling and “carrying on too busy” with Apples the pig.

    Their behaviour has been noted by travellers in the remote region.

  110. 110.

    Jeff Spender

    June 11, 2016 at 8:39 am

    @Reggie Mantle: No, a guess. Based on their scant knowledge of the way the party works, well…my assumption is that they’re novices.

    It’s okay. We all were once.

  111. 111.

    Amir Khalid

    June 11, 2016 at 8:40 am

    @Reggie Mantle:
    Perhaps you will be so kind as to favour us with the Bernsplanation.

  112. 112.

    Keith G

    June 11, 2016 at 8:41 am

    @Zinsky:

    I sure hope Elizabeth Warren is Hillary’s VP choice. That will give mock feminist guys a chance to demonstrate their true feminist chops!

    I sure hope that does not happen. And I doubt that it will. First of all it would be a misallocation of strategic resources. Elizabeth Warren will be a much better advocate for the things that Warren cares about if she is not tethered to the Hillary Clinton playbook and being censored by minders from Hillary Clinton’s inner circle.

    Second, it seems to me that Clinton and Warren have different values on many important issues – for example what to do about Wall Street.

    Third, unlike Joe Biden Elizabeth Warren has a sound and very separate power base. Asking a politician in their prime to give up such a thing is quite a significant task indeed.

    And finally for now, the power structure of the Democratic Party is aging out. We don’t need anymore 60 year olds at the top of our pyramid.

  113. 113.

    burnspbesq

    June 11, 2016 at 8:41 am

    Speaking of things the cat barfed up … Reggie has arrived to foul yet another thread.

  114. 114.

    Ken

    June 11, 2016 at 8:42 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:

    Whitman said Trump is the latest in a long line of historic demagogues, explicitly comparing him to Adolf Hitler

    Hopefully not like 1930s German businessmen… “Sure, he says some crazy stuff, but he’s popular and once he’s elected we’ll be able to keep him in check.”

  115. 115.

    Gin & Tonic

    June 11, 2016 at 8:43 am

    @burnspbesq: At least he doesn’t ooze up between your toes.

  116. 116.

    Jeff Spender

    June 11, 2016 at 8:44 am

    And, I’d like to point out, that if I didn’t want them to participate as members of the Democratic Party I wouldn’t have given them a schedule of every congressional district convention and the state-level convention with an explanation of how the MDP chooses its delegates.

  117. 117.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    June 11, 2016 at 8:45 am

    @D58826:

    That’s why Bernie has been a net negative by encouraging lazy delusional thinking. He was too lazy or uninterested to make sure that his supporters understood the rules he agreed to abide by, by using the Democratic party’s infrastructure, and elided the whole process by emphasizing how “corrupt” the “Establishment” was in order to excuse his own lack of attention to details – as evidenced by his own inability to discuss the “how” of implementing his own central ideas. I can’t count the number of arguments I’ve had with Bernie supporters who literally have zero understanding of how government works, and how politics works. That’s on Bernie, because I don’t think he does either.

  118. 118.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 11, 2016 at 8:45 am

    @burnspbesq: Just don’t step in it and it will be OK.

  119. 119.

    Ken

    June 11, 2016 at 8:46 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Their behaviour has been noted by travellers in the remote region.

    The giant billboards along the highways with “SEE THE ROO F*CK THE PIG – Aileron Roadhouse, 50 km ahead” probably help draw notice.

    (If the owner is any sort of businessman, those billboards exist.)

  120. 120.

    Ultraviolet Thunder

    June 11, 2016 at 8:46 am

    I’m in a generous mood this lovely morning so I’m looking forward to some of the Berniebro political neophytes learning a hard lesson from 2016 and committing to work to change our politics for the better. We could certainly use their productive energy more than we could use the back of their hand.

  121. 121.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 11, 2016 at 8:48 am

    @Jeff Spender: Details details….

  122. 122.

    Ken

    June 11, 2016 at 8:49 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Wait, anti-super delegates? I thought supers were the greatest thing since sliced bread, and were going to be the bulwark that kept Hillary from stealing the election by getting more votes?

  123. 123.

    Randy P

    June 11, 2016 at 8:49 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    …is named “Fuck It” for his libido…

    You gotta love Australians.

  124. 124.

    Reggie Mantle

    June 11, 2016 at 8:50 am

    @burnspbesq:

    Speaking of things the cat barfed up … Reggie has arrived to foul yet another thread.

    Ta-daaa!

  125. 125.

    Reggie Mantle

    June 11, 2016 at 8:52 am

    Interesting article with progressives talking about what Bernie should do next.

    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/06/what-should-bernie-sanders-do-next

    Sorry, haters. “Fuck Off And Die In a Fire” isn’t on the list.

  126. 126.

    Jeff Spender

    June 11, 2016 at 8:54 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: You know, once upon a time I was 16. The year was 2004. Bush won reelection. I wanted to get involved more in the political systme to try to effect positive change.

    I felt lost. In over my head. I didn’t understand the byzantine stricture of the party.

    But instead of assuming the whole thing was corrupt and someone was trying to lock me out I assumed it was an insufficiency on my part of knowledge.

    How could I expect to work within a government that was exponentially more complex than the parliamentary procedures of a party if I didn’t understand those procedures?

    And so I learned.

  127. 127.

    Betty Cracker

    June 11, 2016 at 8:58 am

    @Keith G: I’ve dismissed all the Warren for VP talk because I assumed she wasn’t interested. But she sounded kinda interested on the Maddow show the other night, so now I wonder. FWIW, I agree with your points and hope Senator Warren will stay where she is.

  128. 128.

    amk

    June 11, 2016 at 8:59 am

    I doubt the lil fingered orange faced vulgarian has the same crowd pulling power as he did during the ‘fuck the establishment bums’ primaries. Especially, now that he has to depend on the same establishment bums for gotv, the ‘charm’ might be wearing off. What say you?

  129. 129.

    bemused

    June 11, 2016 at 9:02 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:

    I love that Paul Ryan and other Republicans are going to be to be stuck on the Trump hot seat for the foreseeable future. Squirm, baby, squirm.

  130. 130.

    Lolis

    June 11, 2016 at 9:02 am

    But a white guy in a band posted on Facebook that Hillary was not a feminist because (insert reason of the day). I responded pointing out every single feminist organization in the country disagreed with him. But no, he is the real expert. Ugh, sad thing is ATX is full of these guys. This one didn’t understand that trying to tell women who is a feminist is condescending bullshit.

  131. 131.

    Reggie Mantle

    June 11, 2016 at 9:02 am

    Even Jonathan Chait’s coming around:

    http://www.thenation.com/article/to-win-in-november-hillary-clinton-will-need-bernie-sanderss-voters/

    While [Clinton] and her supporters, may well resent still having to pay attention to Bernie Sanders, they’d better learn to swallow their disappointment just as, eventually, the Sanders supporters will have to swallow theirs. And while they’re at it, they would do well to stop blaming Sanders for their own shortcomings. There is absolutely nothing preventing Clinton from siccing one of her Super PACs on Donald Trump right now. Obama, you’ll recall, didn’t wait till the convention to attack Mitt Romney…

    …As Sanders said last week, “We share a commitment to electing progressive Democrats up-and-down the ballot in Nevada and across the country and are committed to soundly defeating Donald Trump and the right-wing Republican agenda.” Being less dismissive—and less heavy-handed—now can only help Clinton to enlist Sanders and his supporters after the convention. Not doing so risks bringing the kind of resentment—and chaos—we saw in Las Vegas onto the streets of Philadelphia.

  132. 132.

    SiubhanDuinne

    June 11, 2016 at 9:04 am

    Realistically, with the Democratic convention beginning six weeks from Monday, how soon might we expect Hillary to announce her VP choice? Or Trumpt o announce his, for that matter? Is there some protocol about timing of such announcements, or merely trying to seize the most advantageous political moment?

  133. 133.

    hovercraft

    June 11, 2016 at 9:05 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
    Trump was right. The media is being very unfair to him, they’re reporting the things he says and peoples reactions. Welcome to the big leagues.
    Richmond pics. oh the humanity, for the kenyan muslim to out draw the orange savior of real America.

  134. 134.

    bemused

    June 11, 2016 at 9:06 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:

    Who can forget Trump throwing birthday party for Ann Romney and that hideous horse cake? No doubt, the Romneys hope everyone as forgotten.

  135. 135.

    Kay

    June 11, 2016 at 9:07 am

    @amk:

    He doesn’t even have a campaign. He is totally relying on the Party he just joined. I’m curious if and when it will become evident that Republican electeds aren’t campaigning with and for him. They may, but they aren’t yet. There’s real risk for them. The mayor of Cincinnati knows he can stand next to Clinton and not get hurt because of something she says or does. The mayor of Lima does not know that about Trump.

  136. 136.

    Baud

    June 11, 2016 at 9:08 am

    @SiubhanDuinne: Obama chose Biden a few days before the convention.

  137. 137.

    Amir Khalid

    June 11, 2016 at 9:09 am

    @Betty Cracker:
    I suspect Warren’s playing her cards close to her chest, as she has done throughout the primary season, perhaps in case a big-name, more or less neutral progressive is needed to persuade Bernie to do something. I myself think she’s needed more in the Senate than at the White House, and my guess is that she’ll stay a Senator. But you never know.

  138. 138.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 11, 2016 at 9:09 am

    @Jeff Spender:

    And so I learned.

    And earned, and continue to earn.

    I have very little interest in the nuts and bolts of politics. I look at the parties and I know which one accomplishes more for me. I vote that way. I contribute that way. And, from time to time, I volunteer that way. One thing I do not do is denigrate the people who put heart and soul into building that party.

  139. 139.

    SiubhanDuinne

    June 11, 2016 at 9:10 am

    @bemused:

    I remember the party and that cake, but had completely forgotten it was Trump’s doing.

  140. 140.

    Ultraviolet Thunder

    June 11, 2016 at 9:10 am

    @Jeff Spender:

    You know, once upon a time I was 16. The year was 2004. Bush won reelection. I wanted to get involved more in the political systme to try to effect positive change.

    I felt lost. In over my head. I didn’t understand the byzantine stricture of the party.

    When I was 16 and living in Lansing MI I already knew everything. By the time I was able to vote I knew I was a Conservative, and voted for Reagan. Luckily I kept paying attention and recognized some of the errors I had made:
    The Federal budget must balance every year.
    Regulations stifle economic growth.
    Government should be run like a business.

    It took me most of 4 years to come around but Reagan was the last Republican I ever cast a vote for.

  141. 141.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    June 11, 2016 at 9:13 am

    @Reggie Mantle:

    That’s not Jonathan Chait, that article was written a month ago, and the author is a Bernfeeler whose latest article is all about what Hillary needs to do to make the butthurt Bernfeelers not vote for Trump.

    Other than that, good point.

  142. 142.

    Keith G

    June 11, 2016 at 9:14 am

    @Betty Cracker: Well, the beloved musical, Hamilton, has a song about wanting to be “In the Room Where It Happens” where the important decisions are made. I am sure that this would be a strong pull for any politician. And yet, Warren occupies the seat once held by Ted Kennedy, a prime example of how a US Senator can do so much good for his country just by being a U.S. Senator.

  143. 143.

    aimai

    June 11, 2016 at 9:14 am

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: Yup! Its too bad his process arguments didn’t involve any knowledge of, or sympathy for, the fact that process is necessarily part of the process. Had this argument several times with Kossacks who were blathering about the convention and “Robert’s Rules of Order,” a term you can bet none of them knew about (and still don’t understand) until the Nevada Caucus when the BoB’s made it their rallying cry because the hated Nevada Chair, the one who got death threats, was named Roberta and it turned into a convenient hate meme.

  144. 144.

    Jeff Spender

    June 11, 2016 at 9:16 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: It so happens that one of the first things I learned was that there is always someone who wants to tear down what you build.

    The truth is this: the chances I’ll win my election are slim. 60/40 Republican/Democrat split in a gerrymandered district. But I can help lay the groundwork for future candidates. I put together a binder full of information on vendors for signage and other campaign material, contacts for local party people, House Dem Caucus, pages of links to the labrynthine SoS website for information on campaign finance law, parades and festivals throughout the district, elected officials and offices, contact information for unions, maps of the distric, historical information of voter turnout and results township-by-township, information on how to access the VAN, and so much more.

    I had to build all of that on my own from the ground up two years ago. And I don’t want the next candidate to have to reinvent the wheel.

  145. 145.

    aimai

    June 11, 2016 at 9:18 am

    @Kay: I think the thing to point out here is that “campaigning” doesn’t just happen. The Clinton’s (and Obama) go somewhere, fundraise, meet everyone, shake hands, have pictures taken and come back later for the actual campaign event, which they will then organize and pay for in a co-ordinated fashion with other local politicians. They aren’t just going to fly in and step into a limo and roll into a campaign rally on the day, during the general election. That is what all those advance people are responsible for organizing.

    But you can’t do that without an organization and without careful planning. Its not like the planning for a World Wrestling event where you can be sure you are selling a product that people will pay to come to and you are just responsible for taking the venue and putting out some advertising.

    Trump may be able to stage some big rallies, but the real question is will local political actors do the hard GOTV work for him after the rally?

  146. 146.

    Cat48

    June 11, 2016 at 9:18 am

    @Reggie Mantle:
    Hillz Pacs are already running ads against Trump. I could care less what Bernie does. Just no riots from his people at our Convention.

  147. 147.

    SiubhanDuinne

    June 11, 2016 at 9:19 am

    @Baud:

    Right, and similarly McCain chose Palin only about three days before the 2008 GOP convention. But Romney announced Ryan a good two weeks before the start of GOPCON2012. I haven’t tried to plot out timelines between announcement/formal nomination and acceptance for the two parties over, say, since 1960, but I’m sure someone has. Whether there’s any kind of pattern there is another question.

  148. 148.

    Kay

    June 11, 2016 at 9:21 am

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne:

    It’s reality. If Clinton unites the Party she bumps up v Trump. The PPP poll that had them even in PA said exactly that, which is why every D leader from the Prez on down is saying the same thing. I think they will unite. It’s a coalition and while the talk of which parts are more loyal and who are the”real” Democrats is interesting as far as the direction of the Party and power within the Party, loyal and disloyal people each have just one vote.

  149. 149.

    MomSense

    June 11, 2016 at 9:21 am

    @Jeff Spender:

    I do think there is room to make participation easier for people who may need child care, transportation, some financial assistance, etc. I think this is true of a lot of organizations and faith communities.

  150. 150.

    ThresherK

    June 11, 2016 at 9:21 am

    @Baud: A friend linked to this cat comic and I started reading all of Robot-Hugs. There’s a lot a white cis male like me can learn about gender there, without sticking out like a sore thumb. For example.

  151. 151.

    amk

    June 11, 2016 at 9:22 am

    @Reggie Mantle: It’s for both sides to fucking kiss and make up. Primary wars are so last week.

  152. 152.

    bemused

    June 11, 2016 at 9:22 am

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    I remembered because of that awful cake was unforgettable once I saw the photo. I would have liked to have seen Ann’s expression when she saw it.

  153. 153.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    June 11, 2016 at 9:24 am

    @aimai:

    It’s just laziness and lack of critical thinking on the part of the attention deficit disordered supporters, and that’s on Bernie, who is their king. I wonder how much Bernie even knows about the bills he’s supported – my sense of what it’s like to work with him is that he’s more interested in the attention he gets and how much he can scold people, than the details. His complaint about the treaty re the Panama Papers release turned out to be exactly opposite of what the treaty allows the US to do. He doesn’t understand how Dodd-Frank works. He’d rather grandstand, and he’s gotten away with it for his whole career, because he holds himself out as “independent”. That devastating NYDN interview really pantsed him.

  154. 154.

    gogol's wife

    June 11, 2016 at 9:25 am

    @ThresherK:

    Nice. Love the cat comic.

  155. 155.

    gogol's wife

    June 11, 2016 at 9:26 am

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    God, I don’t think I even knew that he did it. It was the apex of kitsch!

  156. 156.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 11, 2016 at 9:27 am

    @Jeff Spender: And your reward for all this work in what in the short term appears to be a losing battle is…..

    Well, my hat is off to you. I don’t have that kind of will and determination to affect change that broad.

  157. 157.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    June 11, 2016 at 9:29 am

    @Kay:

    That’s like saying Obama needs to unite the country, when Republicans want him impeached or dead. There’s only so much one can say and do if Bernfeelers think Hillary’s the same or worse than Trump, because Sanders has convinced them of that. It’s really up to St. Bernie to do the right thing now, isn’t it?

  158. 158.

    Betty Cracker

    June 11, 2016 at 9:30 am

    @Reggie Mantle: The haters exist on both sides, and “fuck off and die” goes both ways. Ironically, as the MoJo article you linked points out, it’s the Bernie or Busters who may make Sanders irrelevant:

    Bernie or bust actually reduces the leverage for Bernie to claim victory. It’s not only important for [Sanders supporters] to show up [to vote for Clinton], it’s important for them to show up as a movement, so it is clear where these victories are coming from in November. That they are coming not from persuaded Republican swing voters but rather from a fired-up progressive movement that is carrying forward regardless of what happens in the primary.

    It’s definitely in Sanders’ interest to talk the Busters off the ledge. But it seems clear the well is poisoned for many of them since they’ve absorbed the “system is corrupt” and “we wuz robbed” bullshit.

    As someone who cares about pushing a liberal agenda forward, I hope Sanders can bring them around. I’m not too worried about it from an electoral standpoint since I suspect many of the really hardcore Busters were Stein or Paul voters anyway. But if they give a shit about Sanders having power in the future, they’ll have to hold their delicate noses and vote for the warmongering neo-liberal Wall Street shill. It is they, not the Clinton backers, who are seriously threatening to cut Sanders off at the knees.

  159. 159.

    Ultraviolet Thunder

    June 11, 2016 at 9:30 am

    @gogol’s wife:
    Really bad. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/04/trump-throws-ann-romney-birthday-bash-with-equestrian-cake/

  160. 160.

    AxelFoley

    June 11, 2016 at 9:31 am

    @Baud:

    I heard that term a few months ago when President Obama was in the UK hold a town hall. One of the questioners, who spoke out of turn, referred to themselves as binary and wanted to be addressed as ‘them’ rather than ‘she’ or ‘he’.

    I got pissed with ‘them’ when they said they wish PM Cameron and President Obama would take the binary community seriously. Now, I don’t know of Cameron’s acknowledgement of binary folks in the UK, but if ‘them’ paid any attention to what’s gone on in the US, they would know that Obama has done way more than just take binary folks seriously. I dare say he’s done more for the LGBT community than any political leader in the world today.

  161. 161.

    gogol's wife

    June 11, 2016 at 9:32 am

    @Ultraviolet Thunder:

    I love those giant cowflops, and the grass that looks like shag rug in a Las Vegas cathouse.

  162. 162.

    Kay

    June 11, 2016 at 9:35 am

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne:

    Pennsylvania Close; Sanders Supporter Unity Would Make It Not Close

    Not close is better than close. I don’t want it to be close because I can’t stand listening to loudmouth braggart Trump crowing. He’s a fraud. His whole thing relies on perception. I want weeks of poll-slipping and Republicans fleeing. It’s starting to look like he’s stalled in national head to heads. That’s an opening.

  163. 163.

    SiubhanDuinne

    June 11, 2016 at 9:35 am

    @gogol’s wife:

    It was the apex of kitsch!

    Which is why it’s so easy to believe the concept originated within the Rmoney household. Remember some of Ann’s sweaters? Lots of $$ =|= Good Taste.

  164. 164.

    Joel

    June 11, 2016 at 9:35 am

    If Mike Judge ever wanted to do a show on academic science, which has just as much ridiculousness as Silicon Valley, albeit over a lot less money, I’d sign up to consult in a heartbeat.

  165. 165.

    MomSense

    June 11, 2016 at 9:36 am

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne:

    The really bizarre thing about that NYDN interview was that they did not ask him gotcha questions or loaded questions or even tough questions. They asked basic questions and plain follow up questions. It brought back memories of discussing issues with some of the more local progressive groups. They would hold meetings and discuss issues like health care where single payer was used as shorthand. When I would try to get into the nitty gritty it turned out that they didn’t all mean the same things.
    When it comes to legislation, a candidate is never going to get everything they want. For me the reason to be concerned about the details of policy proposals from presidential candidates isn’t so that I can scream sell out if any particular provision isn’t in the final product, it’s so I can see how the candidates grasp the complexities of governing. We are choosing someone who will have to manage all manner of things, many of which will be completely unexpected. I want an agile thinker making those decisions.

  166. 166.

    OzarkHillbilly

    June 11, 2016 at 9:36 am

    @MomSense: There is always room for improvement.

  167. 167.

    Jeff Spender

    June 11, 2016 at 9:38 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: No reward. Just pushing for positive change. Letting liberals and LGBT people know that they have allies willing to fight for them in red areas.

    I got letters and emails from people all over the world–literally–thanking me. It was touching. And I felt humbled because all I did was write a letter to some asshole.

    I didn’t win, but I stood my ground. I’d like to think I helped someone.

    http://www.advocate.com/politics/2014/09/30/read-mich-democrats-epic-response-antigay-groups-pile-excrement

  168. 168.

    Ken

    June 11, 2016 at 9:39 am

    @SiubhanDuinne: Don’t forget the vetting. I’m sure the Clinton campaign has been checking everyone on her short list for a couple of months, and will continue to do that until the announcement.

    The Trump campaign, probably not so much.

  169. 169.

    Jack the Second

    June 11, 2016 at 9:40 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: It’s amazing how much easier it is for someone to admit playing off racists for electoral success is bad, when they’re not running.

  170. 170.

    SiubhanDuinne

    June 11, 2016 at 9:42 am

    @Jeff Spender:

    Although your binder is specific to your district (and bless you for doing that!), from your description it sounds as though much of the information is either generic enough or transferable enough that it would be a great template for other Dem candidates/organizers throughout the state. It’s a huge and daunting undertaking and I really commend you for taking on such a project. Good luck to you.

  171. 171.

    WaterGirl

    June 11, 2016 at 9:45 am

    @SiubhanDuinne: I think it was Al Giordano who had posted something recently about there being 3 different times that people typically announce their VP candidate, and IIRC you choose the timing based on what you think the VP brings to the table. It was really interesting to me – he mentioned Biden as one example – but sadly I don’t recall the particulars. But google might be able to help if you want Al’s take on this.

  172. 172.

    Betty Cracker

    June 11, 2016 at 9:45 am

    @AxelFoley: Maybe Iceland’s Jóhanna Sigurdardóttir, who not only presided over implementation of marriage equality laws in her first year as prime minister but then promptly married her same sex partner under the new laws. But she’s an unusual case, and she didn’t have to deal with millions of frothing nutbar opponents in and out of government…

  173. 173.

    ThresherK

    June 11, 2016 at 9:48 am

    @gogol’s wife: They’ve got a good number of cat comics, and one of their cats resembles my wife’s in behavior. It sounds weird but I don’t know if I’d had ever found that webcomic without the cat stuff (ETA: And here I am getting a decent education in allied-ness from it.)

  174. 174.

    MomSense

    June 11, 2016 at 9:50 am

    @Ken:

    I’m sure there are many polls being conducted about VP choices as well. Warren speaks to many of us on this blog but we can’t afford to assume that she is the right choice in all the key places. We also tend to forget that she did not have an easy time of it getting elected in Mass. Normally CD1 Mainers focus on CD2 as it is a bit of a swing state and we divide our Electiral college votes here. In 2012 Maine Dems had to campaign in Maine and New Hampshire because Mass needed their volunteers for Warren and couldn’t spare as many as they usually do for NH. There was also a not insignificant difference between the number of votes Obama received compared with Warren’s vote totals.
    All this is to say I hope they are doing all the modeling and vetting so we get the best ticket possible. I think our goal has to be to totally crush this election from the bottom to the top of the ticket. The Repubkicans have given us a big chance and we shouldn’t waste it.

  175. 175.

    SiubhanDuinne

    June 11, 2016 at 9:55 am

    @WaterGirl:

    Thanks, I’ll look for it.

  176. 176.

    hovercraft

    June 11, 2016 at 9:59 am

    @aimai:
    This has been a failing of both Trump and Sanders. The establishment exits for a reason, to win elections. You cannot build an infrastructure from scratch and win a national election, you need help. It’s like they both misunderstand the Obama mega-rallies, yes they showed the enthusiasm, but their most important function was to gather data. Bernie tried to do that too, but didn’t follow through with next step. Obama spent a ton of money on his data operation and micro-targeting by the campaign. He invested in the back of house so that his GOTV was like nothing seen before, and that involved integrating his operation with the state and national party infrastructure. The GOP state of the art GOTV operation ORCA crashed and burned election day in 2012, Obama’s worked as designed and enabled his campaign to track who had voted and get those who hadn’t out. A candidate who can’t run his own campaign and lacks the resources to fund it does not inspire a whole lot of confidence that he will be able to build the type of organization to do the hard work necessary to run a competent campaign. He is a control freak who knows nothing and isn’t willing to listen to the people who do.
    Rallies feed the ego, but they are also supposed to feed the campaign with vital data.

  177. 177.

    Miss Bianca

    June 11, 2016 at 10:01 am

    @Jeff Spender: this sounds like what happened at our state assembly/convention. Noisy disruption, and a lot of time wasted on bullshit nonbinding resolutions that resolved nothing – aided and abetted, I am sorry to have to report, by some elected officials who should have known better. The chairman of the Colorado Democratic Party stopped by our table to chat with us after the who thing was over and we were relaxing in the bar, and he looked like he needed a couple stiff belts of whisky. From what I can tell he refrained, which is more than I would have been able to do.

  178. 178.

    Miss Bianca

    June 11, 2016 at 10:02 am

    And again a comment got eated. what gives?

  179. 179.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    June 11, 2016 at 10:03 am

    Thanks for this, AL.

    Everyone, if you don’t have time to watch the speech (it’s about 25 minutes and very good (it builds up toward the end)), have a read of the transcript:

    Now my friends, I come to this issue, of course as a woman, a mother, and a grandmother now. But I also come to it as a former First Lady, Senator, and Secretary of State. And in those roles, in those roles, I traveled to parts of the world where girls are married off as soon as they are old enough to bear children. Places where the denial of family planning consigns women to lives of hardship.

    I visited countries where governments have strictly regulated women’s reproduction – either forcing women to have abortions or forcing women to get pregnant and give birth.

    Everything I have seen has convinced me that life is freer, fairer, healthier, safer, and far more humane when women are empowered to make their own reproductive health decisions.

    And everything I’ve heard from Donald Trump, often seems to echo other leaders who have a very different view of women.

    The late, great Maya Angelou said: ‘When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.’

    Donald Trump has shown us who he is. And we sure should believe him.

    It’s not just on reproductive rights. Donald Trump would take us in the wrong direction on so many issues we care about – economic justice, workers’ rights, civil rights, human rights, the environment—all of that is on the line in this election.

    When Donald Trump says a distinguished judge born in Indiana can’t do his job because of his Mexican heritage, or mocks a reporter with disabilities, or denigrates Muslims and immigrants, it goes against everything we stand for. He does not see all Americans as Americans.

    So this election isn’t about the same old fights between Democrats and Republicans. They’ll be there, don’t worry. But this election is profoundly different. It’s about who we are as a nation. It’s about millions of Americans coming together to say: We are better than this.

    So here’s my promise to you today: I will be your partner in this election and over the long haul.

    Together, we are taking on the attacks and together we’ll come out stronger – just like Planned Parenthood has, time and again.

    And together we’re going to unify our country, stop Donald Trump, and fight for an America where we lift each other up, instead of tearing each other down.

    Well said.

    I wish everyone who talks about how horrible “both sides” are would open their minds and listen to what she, and others, are saying. We’ve got to keep up the persuasion to try to wake up as many voters as possible. We need to run the table in the fall…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  180. 180.

    hovercraft

    June 11, 2016 at 10:05 am

    @Cat48:
    This is the Grace ad running in 7 swing states. They also had the ad with women lip-syncing to Donald’s words.

  181. 181.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    June 11, 2016 at 10:05 am

    @Miss Bianca: You probably used a “bad” FYWP word. Lots of common words will do it.

    Unfortunately, the list of banned words is apparently secret, so you’ll only figure it out by trial-and-error.

    :-/

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  182. 182.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    June 11, 2016 at 10:07 am

    @Kay:

    I wholeheartedly agree with this; Bernie Sanders had better get to work sooner than later to convince his supporters of this too. It’s all on him now.

  183. 183.

    Miss Bianca

    June 11, 2016 at 10:08 am

    @Jeff Spender: Good luck with all that. I find I have so little patience with Bernie-or-busters – my experience at the state assembly/convention really soured me. Endless posturing, endless accusations of bad faith, endless bs “resolutions” that resolved nothing, being that they were a), non-binding, b), addressed to the wrong gathering (uh, guys…if you want to change the rules, you take it up with the Rules Committee, not the general assembly, mmmkkay?) and c), weren’t going to address the situation they thought was so “unfair” in time to help their candidate anyway. And it’s not like their guy didn’t win Colorado, FFS – he did! That’s what berned me up, so to speak – all this fuss and pother, all this disrespect masking as “rebellious energy!”, all this bad feeling generated – and it was all UNNECESSARY. Because they couldn’t be bothered with learning the rules of engagement, and insisting that even tho’ they didn’t understand them the rules had to be changed to support Bernie Sanders. And that’s when it occurred to me that for all their talk, they didn’t actually give a shit about democracy.

  184. 184.

    O. Felix Culpa

    June 11, 2016 at 10:09 am

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: Thank you for posting the link to and transcript of Hillary’s speech. I love how she manages to be on point, pointed, and dignified all at the same time.

  185. 185.

    hovercraft

    June 11, 2016 at 10:11 am

    @Ken:
    Katie Tur was reporting this week that the campaign was upset that the focus on his racism was distracting them from focusing on their VP search. A real campaign would have enough personnel to do both damage control and a vetting team.

  186. 186.

    Betty Cracker

    June 11, 2016 at 10:12 am

    @hovercraft: I can report that the “Grace” ad is wall-to-wall in FL.

  187. 187.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    June 11, 2016 at 10:15 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Impressive.

    I probably wouldn’t have noticed that it had been manipulated, but I like the original better. The shadows of the sitting climber don’t seem to match up with the lighting on Half Dome, similarly with the dark hill on the right, if I try to figure out why it doesn’t seem quite right in the massaged version.

    From the clouds, the original looks like it was taken in a cool season while the massaged one looks like it was a warm season picture. Dunno if that’s the case, but that might be part of what seems weird about it, also too.

    One can do amazing things with PS – it’s kinda scary.

    Just my $0.02! :-)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  188. 188.

    Glidwrith

    June 11, 2016 at 10:16 am

    @Jeff Spender: Dayum! That is unbelievably impressive! Any way we can clone you ?

  189. 189.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    June 11, 2016 at 10:16 am

    @MomSense:

    I got in a back and forth on twitter with a Bernfeeler who was very upset about Bernie being caught off guard in Harry Reid’s office about Obama’s endorsement of Hillary on Thursday. There weren’t supposed to be any questions, but the camera caught Bernie’s VERY awkward discomfort and silence when a reporter asked. He knew not only the public endorsement was a fait accompli, but that he would be asked about it. I had no sympathy for the guy. NONE. He thinks he can be president for gawd sake! Do you think Obama would ever not have an answer to an unexpected question? Sanders supporters are just like Sanders – thin skinned whiners who think everything is soooooooo unfair. Here’s a protip for them: things in politics are complicated, nuanced, contradictory, ever changing and compromised up and down and in and out – often reliant on people who refuse to act in good faith, and requires a lot of work to make sense of so that one can be effective at it. This isn’t a video game.

  190. 190.

    Bex

    June 11, 2016 at 10:16 am

    @bemused: I wonder if Trump paid the baker.

  191. 191.

    hovercraft

    June 11, 2016 at 10:23 am

    Oh the humanity , the bestest, most brilliant billionaire is begging for money.

    Park City, Utah (CNN)Republican fund-raisers are beginning to fret that Donald Trump does not comprehend the enormity of the challenge before him, warning that if he fails to execute the basic tasks of fund-raising during a critical six-week stretch, he will find himself badly outgunned this fall.

    Over barbeque dinners and en-suite receptions on the grounds of this five-star retreat nestled in the Wasatch Mountains, associates of Mitt Romney’s $1 billion presidential campaign swapped concerns with one another that Trump is failing to play catch-up quickly enough. There is hope that Trump can reverse fortunes with a fund-raising swing that began this week, but Republicans worry that he is poised to squander the weeks leading up to the GOP convention.
    Obvious bundlers haven’t even been contacted. A small-dollar operation is nonexistent. And the fund-raising agreement with the Republican National Committee continues to wobble.
    “The fund-raising intensity is missing — totally,” said John Rakolta Jr., a former national finance chair for Romney who said he is flabbergasted to not have received a single phone call from Trump’s team. “Who is driving the bus?”
    Romney says Trump will change America with ‘trickle-down racism’
    Republicans here stress that the alarm bells have not yet rung: Trump still has five months to assemble a finance team, and several here said they could see themselves coming to his aid if he displayed more maturity as a candidate and tamped down his controversial rhetoric. And given Trump’s command of media, more bullish fund-raisers predict that he could survive even a $500 million fund-raising gap against Hillary Clinton’s experienced operation.
    Spencer Zwick, the much-praised Republican finance operative who led Romney’s efforts, said raising $500 million was doable. But Zwick, like several other Republican fund-raisers here, asserted that Trump needed to significantly quicken his fund-raising clip before the convention, after which he will have little time for fund-raising.
    And in advance of an event in his hometown of Boston on Monday, Zwick, like Rakolta, said he had received zero contact about it.
    “You’ve got to have an army of people who are out there working for you, and I don’t know that they do yet,” said Zwick, recalling how Romney raised $100 million in this month four years ago. “I don’t know how much Donald Trump wants to spend time raising money.”
    RNC frustrated
    Yet the contrast with the Romney fund-raising juggernaut was on jarring display at the Education and Enthusiasts ideas conference here this week, as Romney’s vast orbit of business partners, friends from the 2002 Winter Olympics and political allies roamed the lodge. The refrain, echoed again and again in hushed conversations on the sidelines: Romney built this over decades. Trump has half a year.
    Federal appeals court suspends ruling that limited D.C. gun law
    And his campaign does not seem urgent, although he would need to raise more than $80 million a month to meet the $500 million mark. After missing out on the windfall of low-dollar cash that could’ve come Trump’s way after each of his primary victories, his campaign is not set to launch a low-dollar digital fund-raising operation until around the Republican convention in mid-July, according to a person with knowledge of the plan.
    Trump’s campaign didn’t respond to a request for comment for this story Friday afternoon. But Trump’s national finance chairman, Steven Mnuchin, told CNN’s Erin Burnett on “OutFront” in an interview that aired Friday that the majority of the funds will come in during “the latter half of the summer.”
    “You have to understand we literally just started this in the last four weeks,” said Mnuchin, who didn’t disclose the amount of money that the campaign has raised so far.
    Meanwhile, the Trump high-dollar fund-raising operation is showing signs of duress, people here say. A joint fund-raising agreement was hatched last month to split proceeds between the RNC and the Trump campaign. And while the first joint fund-raisers have gone well, RNC chair Reince Priebus has phoned some associates expressing frustration that Trump wants to direct dollars to his own ambitious plans, according to a person who has spoken directly with Priebus, which includes quixotic bids to win deep blue states like California and New York.
    Hillary Clinton huddles with top fundraisers
    The RNC did not respond to a request for comment.

    Come on Donald a billion dollars is just pocket change for you, pony up.

  192. 192.

    PaulWartenberg2016

    June 11, 2016 at 10:23 am

    Trump is in Tampa today.

    Anyone wanna bet on him saying something disparaging about the local Cuban population? Anyone?

  193. 193.

    bemused

    June 11, 2016 at 10:26 am

    @Bex:

    That’s a VERY good question, lol.

    I also wonder when Ann spit through her teeth, “You try running for president”, she had in mind having to associate with Trump.

  194. 194.

    HinTN

    June 11, 2016 at 10:26 am

    @Baud: Haven’t you heard about the emoji bible?

  195. 195.

    PaulWartenberg2016

    June 11, 2016 at 10:27 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:

    Please let this translate into how the voters turn out, and that the proportions have Trump getting 25 percent of the turnout that Obama got in 2008… :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

  196. 196.

    Miss Bianca

    June 11, 2016 at 10:28 am

    @Reggie Mantle: Yeah, I’ve always thought Chait was kind of an idiot, too.

  197. 197.

    Matt McIrvin

    June 11, 2016 at 10:31 am

    @Miss Bianca: Many blog comment boards started eating 100% of my posts because I listed my old LiveJournal blog in the “website” field; apparently just having a LiveJournal address is characteristic of being a spammer. So I stopped linking to it.

  198. 198.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    June 11, 2016 at 10:34 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Clearly, Donnie’s was Yuge and Classy™. The Best™. Obama’s was just a Celeb (0:31), amirite?

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  199. 199.

    hovercraft

    June 11, 2016 at 10:37 am

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne:
    According to reports Obama told Bernie he was going to endorse last weekend. Bernie asked him to hold off till after they met at the whitehouse. He knew it was coming.

    White House spokesman Josh Earnest said Obama has now spoken with Sanders three times in the last week, and “I think it’s fair to say Sen. Sanders was not surprised at all by today’s announcement” of the Clinton endorsement.

  200. 200.

    Iowa Old Lady

    June 11, 2016 at 10:38 am

    @hovercraft:

    several here said they could see themselves coming to his aid if he displayed more maturity as a candidate

    That’s hilarious. The man is 70 years old. If he’s not mature by now, he never will be.

  201. 201.

    Miss Bianca

    June 11, 2016 at 10:40 am

    @Jeff Spender: Awesome letter!

    You need not worry, whatever the outcome of this election – methinks you have a fabulous future in public service ahead of you, no matter what happens this fall.

  202. 202.

    Ken

    June 11, 2016 at 10:43 am

    @hovercraft: And given Trump’s command of media,

    I see they’ve confused “command of media” with “gets on TV.”

  203. 203.

    D58826

    June 11, 2016 at 10:43 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    It’s definitely in Sanders’ interest to talk the Busters off the ledge. But it seems clear the well is poisoned for many of them since they’ve absorbed the “system is corrupt” and “we wuz robbed” bullshit.

    They also have to learn, esp. the younger supporters, that you can’t always get everything at once. Bernie’s nagging on single payer and seeming badmouthing Obamacare. I have gotten a couple of his twitter blurbs about it being shameful that the US doesn’t have universal healthcare. Well it is but he doesn’t seem to acknowledge that Obamacare has gone a long way to solve that problem. But anything short of single payer now is an example of the corruption of the system.

  204. 204.

    Miss Bianca

    June 11, 2016 at 10:44 am

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: It suddenly popped up in moderation, and I’d already gone ahead and transmitted its substance – apparently without the sekrit bad word – in another comment. So, any front-pager reading this, can you just go ahead and delete the other comment? kthx

  205. 205.

    catclub

    June 11, 2016 at 10:44 am

    @D58826: There was a Slate Pitch advocating just that thing.

  206. 206.

    Ken

    June 11, 2016 at 10:46 am

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:

    Unfortunately, the list of banned words is apparently secret, so you’ll only figure it out by trial-and-error.

    The hardest ones for me are avoiding the plural demonstrative pronoun, the number between 6 and 8, and the middle names of all former British Prime Ministers.

  207. 207.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    June 11, 2016 at 10:46 am

    @bemused: The tree stumps were a nice touch.

    Mitt Romney’s biggest supporter Donald Trump has now turned his attentions to his wife – by creating a one-off birthday cake of her riding a horse.
    The billionaire real estate tycoon and his wife Melania did the busy Republican presidential candidate’s job for him this year by throwing Ann Romney a huge bash at the Trump Tower in New York yesterday.

    And the centrepiece of her 63rd birthday party was a large cake handmade by celebrity chef Buddy Valastro, topped with a sweet-tasting Romney atop a sugary horse in a field of green icing, according to ABC News.

    I wonder if the “celebrity chef” ever got paid…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  208. 208.

    catclub

    June 11, 2016 at 10:46 am

    @Iowa Old Lady: Henry Hyde said the marriage busting affair he had in his early forties was a youthful indiscretion.

  209. 209.

    Iowa Old Lady

    June 11, 2016 at 10:52 am

    @D58826:

    But anything short of single payer now is an example of the corruption of the system

    I’m thinking “corrupt” and “corruption” are losing any real meaning.

  210. 210.

    Betty Cracker

    June 11, 2016 at 10:56 am

    @Miss Bianca: If you tell me which comment (by #) you want deleted within the next 5 minutes or so, I’ll zap it.

  211. 211.

    AxelFoley

    June 11, 2016 at 10:57 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    You got me there. ?

  212. 212.

    ruemara

    June 11, 2016 at 11:02 am

    @Jeff Spender: Thank you for doing it. Thank you for trying to educate those Bernie supporters on the nature of government, parties and methodology. I gave up on my group, because they are the most smuggest, self-righteous and hero worshipping crowd with an absolute anathema towards paying attention to details. And as the contest moves on in their minds, they’re locked down very hard on their hate while failing to acknowledge that they hate. Most of the ones who are not indulging in Bernie worship are already on the Clinton wagon because they see that it’s. But I’m so grateful to them for reaching back towards fellow Bernistas to discuss the down ticket races and stopping Trump. At this point, I think the self preservation iinstincts of POC and the general coalition getting back to organizing will grant a much better Congress as well as our first Madame President.

  213. 213.

    Miss Bianca

    June 11, 2016 at 11:04 am

    @Betty Cracker: It’s not numbered, but it’s in between 175 and 176. Thanks!

  214. 214.

    D58826

    June 11, 2016 at 11:05 am

    The establishment exits for a reason,

    Being an old codger I remember the student radicals of the 1960’s railing against the evils of the ‘establishment ‘ and how they were going to usher in a new and more enlightened age once that ‘establishment’ was destroyed. Well the ‘establishment ‘today is made up of those student radicals. A fitting dose of karma will be in about 30 years when the Bernie folks have taken over the ‘establishment’ and established the golden age but having to listen to THEIR kids talk about the evil ‘establishment’

  215. 215.

    Applejinx

    June 11, 2016 at 11:12 am

    @Amir Khalid: Yeah but here’s the thing:

    Does it benefit Clinton personally more, to have Warren run as veep? Is that a thing that would help Clinton, regardless of what it might do to the party?

    I think it does. I think the idea is basically an exploit: defuse the Bernie problem by roping in Warren to run. I don’t think Hillary cares as much about the good of Massachusetts or the party as she cares about getting elected. And we ALL know she must get elected. Hopefully, elected and re-elected.

    If they went with Warren for veep, I’d find that a very good sign as it’s a flag saying Hillary 2016 is aligned with what Warren represents and will try to further that association. She thinks that’s the way of the future. She’s right. It is.

    Then, it makes our jobs harder because yes, that would hurt Massachusetts and it would hurt the party structurally, and we’d have to overcome that. Hopefully enthusiasm plays a part, but it would not really be about doing the best thing for the party. It’d be about doing the best thing for getting Hillary elected (and re-elected).

    The bright side for Warren is that it’s a path to President Warren, if all goes well. It’s a big gamble and she might be too smart to want that job, but there’s a lot of people who would want her to do it. If she has any sense she’ll want to stay where she is and remain a normal human fighting for her political ends, and not turn into a big symbolic figure with less practical power.

    But Hillary might want her for exactly that, and Hillary is good at getting what she wants. I think that’s how things stand.

  216. 216.

    Miss Bianca

    June 11, 2016 at 11:14 am

    @ruemara:

    At this point, I think the self preservation iinstincts of POC and the general coalition getting back to organizing will grant a much better Congress as well as our first Madame President.

    I think the thing about the Bernie-worship I notice in my circle that makes me saddest is that it so much of it seems to be a result of, or to cause, Hillary-hate. I guess my inherent prejudices made me think POC would, in general, be less susceptible to the notion that some Old White Guy was going to be their personal political savior, and would be the quickest to come around if they *have* inhaled that incense.

  217. 217.

    BruceFromOhio

    June 11, 2016 at 11:15 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: To be fair about it, 2008 was post-convention and just a few weeks before the general election, 2016 is way early for the hate-mobs to be climbing out of their holes and into the daylight.

    That said, I’m in the “hit the dumpster fire until he cries then hit him harder” camp.

  218. 218.

    Glidwrith

    June 11, 2016 at 11:19 am

    @hovercraft: There was a Schwartzenegger interview in the side bar asking him about the Deadbeat. Bastard kept going on about polls and people being concerned about jobs and education and claiming Republicans and Dems should work together. Thanks, Gov, but we saw exactly what that meant when you were in charge here.

    He WOULD not make any statement about or against Deadbeat. Coward.

  219. 219.

    hovercraft

    June 11, 2016 at 11:26 am

    There is a new form of unskewing the polls. It’s the reverse Bradley effect, people who support Trump but are afraid to say so to pollsters. This is his new talking point for why he is trailing in the polls. I actually think that there are people out there who are closet trumpsters, not enough to account for the gap but maybe 1 to 2 points.

  220. 220.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    June 11, 2016 at 11:26 am

    @hovercraft:

    This is what I mean. Bernie’s so bitter, he can’t even articulate any kind of gracious response when asked, a few days later? He’s a petulant child.

  221. 221.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 11, 2016 at 11:28 am

    @Applejinx:

    I don’t think Hillary cares as much about the good of Massachusetts or the party as she cares about getting elected.

    FFS.

  222. 222.

    Glidwrith

    June 11, 2016 at 11:40 am

    @Applejinx: @Omnes Omnibus: Agree with Omnes, FFS.

    You sit there and claim Clinton doesn’t care about the party, but then say she should take Warren as VP to make the Bernfeelers happy the Clinton really does want what they want even though you think it would hurt the party.

    If Warren is endorsing Clinton, fighting on her behalf and voicing all of our concerns, shouldn’t that be enough for you? Why would Clinton have to take Warren as VP just to be “sure”?

  223. 223.

    D58826

    June 11, 2016 at 11:50 am

    ot but another family values/law and order Christian bites the dust

    OPELIKA, Ala. (AP) — Alabama House Speaker Mike Hubbard’s conviction on ethics charges automatically removes him from office and could mean years in prison for the powerful Republican.

    Friday night, a jury found the one-time GOP star guilty of 12 counts of public corruption for using the influence and prestige of his political stature to benefit his companies and clients. He faces up to 20 years in prison for each count.
    The jury, which arrived at the verdict after nearly seven hours of deliberation, acquitted Hubbard on 11 other counts.

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/ethics-conviction-removes-alabama-house-speaker-from-office/ar-AAgSCTt?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=iehp

  224. 224.

    D58826

    June 11, 2016 at 11:56 am

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: why folks are nervous:

    As the Democratic race for president winds down, some party strategists have complained that Mr. Weaver is the Vermont senator’s enabler in chief, a true believer who could encourage his boss to keep fighting on after the June 14 primary in Washington, D.C., even though Mrs. Clinton has mathematically locked up the nomination. Others think Mr. Weaver may be the one person who can coax Mr. Sanders into a conciliatory stance.

    He hasn’t revealed much yet to reassure either camp. “Sure, there will be a roll call eventually,” he said in a phone interview on Friday, referring to the Democratic convention. “My plan until then is to help the senator do whatever he wants to do to further the political revolution.”

    For the moment, at least, Mr. Weaver holds the political world in suspense: Is he going to broker a peace agreement or will he be the last man standing on the Bernie barricades?

    It’s a delicate moment in the Sanders campaign. Like the time’s-up music that shoos Oscar winners off the stage at the Academy Awards show, the cascade of Clinton endorsements this last week — President Obama, Senator Elizabeth Warren, Vice President Joe Biden — are drowning out Mr. Sanders’s un-acceptance speech.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/12/fashion/bernie-sanders-campaign-jeff-weaver.html?&_r=0

  225. 225.

    Keith G

    June 11, 2016 at 11:58 am

    It seems to me that a number of the Sanders dead enders were not Democratic voters before this election cycle. Nor do I consider many of them to be liberals in the sense that liberal has been used in Democratic politics the for many years. There is a significant number of political non-participants existing on the fringe of our politics waiting for an invitation to join in the fray. Another group of highly invested Sanders supporters were the “cause” people. These are folks whose self-identity is defined by whatever social or political cause they are able to attach themselves to – usually the more different from the mainstream the better. I’m not sure why any time needs to be spent on these folks. This seems such a Princess and the Pea scenario.

    Also, I don’t get the argument that Sanders is at fault for not educating his supporters on 8th grade civics. There may be some validity to it, but I just don’t see it. Candidates for president tend to engage in far-reaching high-sounding rhetoric and they leave the nitty-gritty to later times.

    Barack Obama called for a huge change in the way America conducted its politics but he really didn’t set out a detailed road map of how he would lead that change. And as out he was describing a bridge too far. Candidates who do spend time talking about the nitty-gritty difficulties of what the future may hold as often as not do not win. Jimmy Carter had that problem as did Walter Mondale.

    The lesson that was learned was don’t spend too much time dealing with reality. The American people are not big fans of that.

  226. 226.

    MoxieM

    June 11, 2016 at 12:05 pm

    I’m feeling like it’s time for a Labrys emoji! (or does such a creature exist?)

  227. 227.

    WaterGirl

    June 11, 2016 at 12:07 pm

    @Jeff Spender: I am just as impressed with that letter today as I was in 2014, though I’m sorry to find out that you didn’t win. But you made a difference, and that’s what it’s all about.

  228. 228.

    D58826

    June 11, 2016 at 12:09 pm

    @Keith G: Also, I don’t get the argument that Sanders is at fault for not educating his supporters on 8th grade civics. There may be some validity to it, but I just don’t see it.

    It’s not so much the 8th grade civics part as the way Bernie used his supporters inexperience/lack of knowledge to build the ‘we was robbed’/’the system is rigged against us’ meme.

  229. 229.

    Ruckus

    June 11, 2016 at 12:25 pm

    @Zinsky:
    It’s quite possible that there are a lot of women that could do the job of VP and that would be great, but Warren is very, very good right where she is. I think we all have to remember that it takes 3 branches of the government to work, and that she is a very good being right where she is. Putting her in a position that really has little power would stifle her. I don’t want her stifled, I want her full voice to be heard, and powerful.

  230. 230.

    SiubhanDuinne

    June 11, 2016 at 12:27 pm

    @D58826:

    That’s the legislative branch of Alabama government, CHECK ✔️

    Now for executive (Governor Bentley) and judicial (CJ Roy Moore).

  231. 231.

    dogwood

    June 11, 2016 at 12:29 pm

    @Applejinx:
    It’s pretty obvious after reading you for several months that you don’t evaluate politicians based on who they are and what the do and say in the real world. Your take on people like Sanders, Warren and Clinton make them sound like fictional characters you’ve created in your mind. Since Bernie lost, you’ve rationalized how the corrupt Clinton character from your political novel might use her evil powers for good. There really is is an easier way to figure things out. Pay attention to real candidates in real time.

  232. 232.

    Keith G

    June 11, 2016 at 12:34 pm

    @D58826: Well, the system is rigged. We all know that. But a lot of us are secure enough in our position in life that even with a rigged system we don’t have a lot to lose.

    But I’m not here to defend Bernie Sanders. I am glad that he was able to continue a rhetorical focus on groups of people who are often not considered by our political elites. Too bad he was such a flawed candidate. But that’s the way life works more often than not. I am just amazed that many of us on the winning side cannot take the win with good grace and the understanding that we should begin focusing on more important matters that sit directly ahead of us.

  233. 233.

    Ruckus

    June 11, 2016 at 12:55 pm

    @Jeff Spender:
    Some people want what they want, when they want it and no amount of learning should be necessary to get it. And it’s not that work is good because it’s hard, it’s hard because it requires effort to accomplish anything worth doing. But hard is not something that people in the first sentence are used to or usually willing to do.
    I call these people spoiled little bastards.

  234. 234.

    Amir Khalid

    June 11, 2016 at 1:06 pm

    @Applejinx:
    You seem to have retained from your Bernista days a tendency to believe the worst about Hillary’s motives, which colours your thinking about her plans. And which, in this case, refuses to give Elizabeth Warren credit for being her own woman with her own political priorities, which may well require that she stay in the Senate and out of the Vice-Presidency.

    We don’t know who else Hillary is seeing for the VP slot, or who else her campaign is vetting. I would not be all that surprised to see Hillary make a choice unanticipated by the pundits.

  235. 235.

    Miss Bianca

    June 11, 2016 at 1:10 pm

    @Keith G:

    I am just amazed that many of us on the winning side cannot take the win with good grace and the understanding that we should begin focusing on more important matters that sit directly ahead of us.

    You know, I like a great deal of what you say. But considering that I personally have been called – how did Omnes Omnibus put it? – a “Republican-lite and a corporate whore”, had my judgement and my commitment to liberal causes questioned, and even mocked, not merely online but in person as well – I think I’m taking “being on the winning side” with remarkably good grace, thank you. Granted, it will be easier once Senator Sanders makes some sort of compelling case to his most diehard supporters that yeah, maybe his rhetoric about the System and the Democratic Party and the winning candidate were a bit exaggerated, since he’s going to ask them to support all of these things by actually going out and voting in November for HRC. Granted, if he doesn’t, it’s still going to be easier to pivot and focus on what’s ahead without worrying about being suddenly savaged from behind or from what might be laughingly referred to as the “left flank” – because the attacks are going to become increasingly irrelevant. We can hope. But to say, plaintively, “can’t we all just get along?” without acknowledging that there might, in fact, be cause – *real* cause, as opposed to largely imaginary and ginned-up ones – for Clinton supporters to feel some resentment and maybe even ill-will, is to pretend that that stuff didn’t happen. It did, and it needs to be addressed. part of addressing it is to dissect it immediately post-mortem, or close to it.

    I wouldn’t worry. I don’t think it will last long. Like our preferred candidate, some of us listen and learn to get past our grudges, absorb what’s good and right from the other side and other points of view, and learn from experience. With dazzling results. : )

  236. 236.

    gwangung

    June 11, 2016 at 1:12 pm

    @Keith G:

    Also, I don’t get the argument that Sanders is at fault for not educating his supporters on 8th grade civics. There may be some validity to it, but I just don’t see it. Candidates for president tend to engage in far-reaching high-sounding rhetoric and they leave the nitty-gritty to later times.

    Poppycock.

    Part of the civics lesson is how to participate. You fail that, you fail your own campaign.

    Part of the campaign is to show you know how to manage and can handle the job of President. You fail that, you make your own case against you.

  237. 237.

    Ruckus

    June 11, 2016 at 1:12 pm

    @Ken:
    The Trump campaign, probably not so much.
    I’d bet he hasn’t spent more than 15 minutes total looking at potential VP selections. His two points to cover in his mind:
    1. Will this person never, ever, in any way, shine as brightly as me or give me any backtalk at all.
    2. Will this person do all the work for no reward because I’m sure as fuck not going to.
    As he sees everyone as inferior to him, especially everyone he’s just beaten, I’d bet he’ll pick one of his lawyers to be VP. An unknown who does exactly what is required.

  238. 238.

    The Lodger

    June 11, 2016 at 1:17 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: And while they’re at it, free Don Siegelman.

  239. 239.

    Keith G

    June 11, 2016 at 1:46 pm

    @gwangung: Yep there were problems. Primarily among them is that Sanders did not create a scalable campaign. He started as a symbolic effort to press certain issues, not to win the presidency – because he didn’t think it was possible. By the time it occurred to him and to others that it was possible, not enough could be changed to make winning a practical reality.

    I do not view Sanders in a bad or, worse, evil light. I just see him as the metaphorical dog who just for a very short moment caught the car and didn’t know what the fuck to do with it.

  240. 240.

    Matt McIrvin

    June 11, 2016 at 2:56 pm

    @hovercraft:

    There is a new form of unskewing the polls. It’s the reverse Bradley effect, people who support Trump but are afraid to say so to pollsters. This is his new talking point for why he is trailing in the polls. I actually think that there are people out there who are closet trumpsters, not enough to account for the gap but maybe 1 to 2 points.

    If the shy-Trumpster effect were a big thing, you’d think he would have overperformed his polling in the Republican primaries. He didn’t, except possibly in some of the late races when he was sewing up the nomination, and his support was increasing so rapidly that the time lag in poll data could account for any differences. In fact, until then it was Ted Cruz who usually did better than he polled.

  241. 241.

    gwangung

    June 11, 2016 at 3:03 pm

    @Keith G: Any “anger” (irritation, really) I have at the Sanders campaign is that it has the chance to rub off on the issues; that these behaviors are endemic to anyone who has a progressive, more socialistic message. That frustrates me, because the issues are real, and Sanders was more than right to bring them up. But being right on the issues but being the wrong messenger has impact beyond his own candidacy.

  242. 242.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    June 11, 2016 at 3:57 pm

    @Keith G:

    I just see him as the metaphorical dog who just for a very short moment caught the car and didn’t know what the fuck to do with it.

    Not quite – he caught the car, then believed he should not only drive, he could race Formula 1 after being one of those PITA back seat drivers for 30 years, and convinced a bunch of know-nothings that he could be their champion. It was political malpractice for not understanding, and ultimately taking responsbility for, what he was actually creating. He’s a child.

    @gwangung:

    Exactly so. I fear he’s been a net negative with his inability to take responsibility for the failures of his campaign and instead blaming Clinton and the Democrats as being corrupt and rigged. He’s a fraud and dipped into his own stash to keep the grift of these new-to-politics first time **voters** going for far too long.

  243. 243.

    Cleos

    June 11, 2016 at 4:45 pm

    @D58826:

    Being an old codger I remember the student radicals of the 1960’s railing against the evils of the ‘establishment ‘ and how they were going to usher in a new and more enlightened age once that ‘establishment’ was destroyed.

    The ones I knew did all that — and were living on checks from Mums and Daddums.

  244. 244.

    Cleos

    June 11, 2016 at 4:50 pm

    [quoted]

    @D58826:

    Others think Mr. Weaver may be the one person who can coax Mr. Sanders into a conciliatory stance.

    I wouldn’t have any high hopes for a POTUS who has to be “coaxed” in that way. Sort of like getting, say, a 35-year-old to cooperate by promising him milk and cookies. It’s not setting the bar too high to expect a President to at least be an adult.

  245. 245.

    nutella

    June 11, 2016 at 5:02 pm

    @Ruckus:

    As he sees everyone as inferior to him, especially everyone he’s just beaten, I’d bet he’ll pick one of his lawyers to be VP. An unknown who does exactly what is required.

    More likely Ivanka. That’s someone he knows he can order around.

  246. 246.

    Ruckus

    June 11, 2016 at 5:30 pm

    @nutella:
    Possibly but I’d bet a male lawyer first. She actually may be bringing in money for him, can’t have that stop. And if he chose her, he’d have to replace her. Too much work. If one wins, don’t they normally put their assets into a trust for the duration? She’d probably be the person to be the trustee.

  247. 247.

    Carl W

    June 11, 2016 at 6:22 pm

    @Ruckus:

    If one wins, don’t they normally put their assets into a trust for the duration?

    That’s the convention, but I’ve read that there’s no legal requirement. I think Trump has talked about re-opening Trump U after winning the election, which makes me think he wants to keep control of his businesses while being President.

  248. 248.

    Ruckus

    June 11, 2016 at 7:52 pm

    @Carl W:
    I was pretty sure it wasn’t a requirement as well but we both may be wrong. The is such a thing as the Office of Government Ethics, which seems to do exactly what you’d think it does and is guided by a 1978 law, The Ethics in Government Act. Here is a summary. As I’m not a lawyer reading this puts me to sleep but it seems rather detailed in what happens.

  249. 249.

    Carl W

    June 11, 2016 at 8:13 pm

    @Ruckus: Also not a lawyer, and didn’t get through the whole thing. But in the first page and a half, it looks like the President and VP are specifically excluded from the law. And Office of Government Ethics regulations sound like the sort of thing that could be overturned by executive order, maybe?

  250. 250.

    J R in WV

    June 11, 2016 at 10:21 pm

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I’ve seen a lot of them (Cowboys with guns) in SE Arizona, snakes, drug runners, mountain lions, etc. Mostly 1911 .45s if I’m seeing them correctly. Some Glocks, which I don’t like at all. 1911s are way the safest semi-automatics to carry, multiple safeties…

    I personally carry because I was once stalked by a lion.

    In Colorado we ate in a roadside joint on US 50 beside the Arkansas river, and after dinner I walked around to see the wildlife photos locals had taken. The best one was a guy holding up a 150+ pound lion, with his hands under it’s front legs, its behind on the ground.

    He came out of his house to see the lion with his dog under it. He grabbed a 2×4 and clubbed the lion to death with it. Amazing.

    Then we drove up into the mountains, all liberals and all armed.

  251. 251.

    J R in WV

    June 11, 2016 at 10:23 pm

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    The shadows on the ground all look false without the clouds. Otherwise, the original is a good shot.

  252. 252.

    Ruckus

    June 11, 2016 at 10:59 pm

    @Carl W:
    I had to read it a couple of times to see that I think they are specifically covered by the law because there is no other law or mention in the constitution. Other federal employees are usually covered by rules of employment of their job.
    So I’m not sure exactly what they have to do, it sounds like they may have a few choices, but can have nothing that might be a conflict of interest with any of their duties or possible decisions and can be sanctioned if they violate that.

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