Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

I’d try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

Authoritarian republicans are opposed to freedom for the rest of us.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

I like you, you’re my kind of trouble.

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

Today’s GOP: why go just far enough when too far is right there?

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

Republicans in disarray!

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

Meanwhile over at truth Social, the former president is busy confessing to crimes.

Let there be snark.

Imperialist aggressors must be defeated, or the whole world loses.

Tick tock motherfuckers!

Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.

A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.

It’s always darkest before the other shoe drops.

Prediction: the GOP will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

This blog will pay for itself.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.

If you are still in the GOP, you are an extremist.

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Reader Interactions

191Comments

  1. 1.

    rikyrah

    Please stop writing ‘casualty’.
    These FIFTY PEOPLE ARE DEAD!!!!

    Dead for the crime of being gay.
    Sigh.?????
    I bet every last one of his weapons was purchased legally.

  4. 4.

    Derelict

    We’re out of words. But, this being America, there is no level of horror that can make us rethink our love of guns.

    Still, I wonder how many conservative public figures will be saying that their prayers go out to the victims and families–when those very same conservatives have been praying so long for God to smite the sodomites.

  5. 5.

    Dupe1970

    50 people killed. 50. And still the insanity will progress. The answer will always be more guns.

  6. 6.

    Dork

    And I bet if the killer had lived, he’d claim Stand Your Ground. Because icky gheys are icky.

  7. 7.

    JPL

    @rikyrah: According to the web, had was a security officer. I’m not sure if he was employed at the time. He had a gun license.
    His father admitted his son was a homophobe, but so is the lt. gov of Florida.

  8. 8.

    scottinnj

    While the specifics vary each day it remains true that Shit Is Fucked Up And Bullshit.

  9. 9.

    Humdog

    So, one party serves up lies about Planned Parenthood and a nutjob is inspired to shoot them up. Then one party starts serving up lies about the dangers of LGBT people in bathrooms and a nutjob is inspired to shoot them up.

    Can we claim that that party is outsourcing their hit jobs to nutjobs? With the governor of Texas claiming this is “reaping what they sowed”, can I expect him to reap the whirlwind of an extremist coming to shoot him up now? When do these evil rulers-up-of-nutjobs ever get their karmic payback?

    And don’t tell me we cannot ban AR 15s. Yes, it will be hard to get them out of circulation but someone goes to jail for just having the weapon and we don’t need to wait for them to use it. That is a clear improvement and can only eventually reduce the kill counts.

  10. 10.

    janelle

    Worst of all, because the perpetrator was Muslim that is what the wingnutteria will put all of the focus on and most of the media will happily comply. Gun control, shmun control. Besides, if 20 dead first graders couldn’t get the GOP fuckheads to budge on gun control, I’ve got serious doubts that 50 dead gay people will.

  11. 11.

    greennotGreen

    John, for your mental health DO NOT read the responses to the ABC report identifying the shooter on Twitter. Substitute “Moslems” (sic) for Jews, and hello, Fourth Reich.

  12. 12.

    amorphous

    Now having been an expat for half a year, I am surprised at how different the US looks from the outside in, even after this short amount of time. I don’t think living in Germany is this absolute paradise, but people seem to care about each other here and care about making the world better for everyone rather than just fyigm.

    I’m heartbroken again by this news, but the feeling is different. I don’t know how to describe it.

    I’m just sad, and I’m sad that I’m not sad that I wont ever move back. Like, I wish I could be sad that I will never move back, but I’m not.

  13. 13.

    GregB

    This is the kind of monstrous acts that helps to stampede people into the arms if authoritarians.

    I loathe religious fanatics and violent humans.

  14. 14.

    Loviatar

    Once again.

    Republicans are not your opponent, they are your enemy.

    An opponent can be compromised with, an enemy can only be defeated.

    FUCK 11 dimensional chess.

  15. 15.

    Lit3Bolt

    The United States: the only country that defends the rights of terrorists to own semi-automatic rifles.

  16. 16.

    delk

    It took presidential candidate Ted Cruz over three months to admit is was a ‘mistake’ to attend Kevin Swanson’s Cristian Conference where he called for the execution for gays.

  17. 17.

    Tokyokie

    @Humdog: I long for the day that said governor, who took a $25,000 bribe to shut down the state’s legal action against Deadbeat Donnie’s education scam, would reap what he has sown, and then fertilized with his endless slurry of heartless bullshit.

  18. 18.

    Mai.naem.mobile

    There is an Omar Marteen.Landscaping in Greensboro NC. Probably not related but you know this poor guy is going to go through a bunch of crap because he shares the killer’s name.

  21. 21.

    ArchTeryx

    NRA delenda est.

    As I’ve been saying this is an act of war with our own borders. 50 people dead goes beyond ‘mass shooting’. It isn’t an act of war by Islam, terrorists or any of what the howler monkeys of the right are screeching about. It’s an act of war by the gun humpers against the rest of us, and it’s high time we mobilized and took the fight right back at them.

    The enemy will identify themselves soon enough.

  23. 23.

    Elizabelle

    @ArchTeryx: I agree.

    It would be a lot easier if the gun humpers had not bought too much of Congress and the legislatures. But it’s not undoable.

  26. 26.

    celticdragonchick

    If you support discrimination against GLBT people…if you are somebody like Rod Dreher who complains about “PC police” who won’t let you call us names on the job…if you think we are sick, crazy, “disordered” or perverts looking for little girls in the bathroom…shut up. Shut your mouth. Say nothing. We don’t need to hear from you. We don’t need your patronizing, half hearted sympathy. We don’t need your moralizing or prayers. You own this event just as surely as the fanatic who carried out the attack. You enabled it. You armed him with the guns and the hatred.

    Rod Dreher…you own this.
    Maggie Gallagher…you own this.
    Bryan Fischer…you own this.

    Don’t go trying to just stuff it all onto Islam. That young man was born HERE and he absorbed the hatred HERE! He got it from you.

  30. 30.

    Mister Papercut

    There’s not enough Tums on this planet for me to watch conservatives pivot from espousing anti-LGBT everything to now waving the bloody rainbow shirt.

  31. 31.

    Iowa Old Lady

    @celticdragonchick: Exactly. When you look at the target and then hear the father’s testimony about the shooter’s outrage over two men kissing, and still decide it’s the shooter’s Middle-eastern name that’s most indicative of a motive, you are lost in your own squid cloud of hate and fear.

  32. 32.

    Linnaeus

    @Derelict:

    But, this being America, there is no level of horror that can make us rethink our love of guns.

    As Garry Wills put it.

    Sandy Hook didn’t do it. Nothing else will.

  34. 34.

    Oldgold

    Will this be story about bigotry, intolerance and promiscuous gun laws or Islamic terrorists, sharia law and promiscuous borders?

  36. 36.

    Adam L Silverman

    Just a reminder, because its come up several times in the previous thread: gay men are now allowed to donate blood.
    http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/BloodBloodProducts/QuestionsaboutBlood/ucm108186.htm

    So if you’re in Florida don’t let being gay stop you from donating. They’ll be pulling from blood banks all over the state and there will be shortages all over the state as a result.

    ETA: Provided you are in compliance with the rules at the link.

  38. 38.

    ArchTeryx

    @Elizabelle: My father was a gunsmith and was a member of the NRA until Reagan was elected.

    He saw the gun humpers taking it over in real time, and he left them over that. He collected guns, but was extremely careful with them. Taught me gun safety practically from toddlerhood, and when he passed away in 1997, his collection was carefully handled by a police office friend of his to make sure NONE of them hit the unregulated market. Ever.

    Wayne LaPierre, the open carry movement and this act of war would have made him physically ill. He would have come out fighting talon and fang. We all need to.

  39. 39.

    Gavin

    The other problem I have with this shooting is.. At no point is it going to “convince” anyone else of the bravery/righteousness of the act of killing, or of the righteousness of the anti-gay agenda.

    Human nature is to resist that – and to therefore promote the agenda that was attempted to be repressed.

    So.. Why commit this atrocity? If the goal is to change minds, the only way is to constructively engage.

    If the goal is to self-immolate in a fashion that serves only to highlight the absurdity of the position you support, then mission accomplished.

  40. 40.

    Elizabelle

    Meanwhile, this proud dad’s op ed fell right off the top of the NY Times website, where it was prominently featured, once news from Orlando broke.

    What a day to have your essay published, and what an honor to be published in the NY Times (which, OK, disgraced itself with today’s Maureen Dowd column. But still ….)

    Dream of My Muslim Son. Author: Muhammad H. Zaman

    blurb:

    My boy aspires to become president. But I wonder if anti-Muslim vitriol is ruining that ambition.

    I kinda hope the NYTimes has turned off the comments, because they weren’t looking too promising even before the scope of the Orlando murders became apparent.

    sigh

  41. 41.

    Elmo

    The killer was supposedly born in the US to Afghani parents. Which means that his parents came over during the time of Reagan’s mujahideen freedom fighters, in all likelihood.

    Not that mere historical fact will keep the Reagan fellators from screeching about “eeeeeevil Muslims…”

  42. 42.

    Immanentize

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    you are lost in your own squid cloud of hate and fear.

    That there is quality metaphor. So sad, so true, but it also made me smile. Humans is weird…..

  45. 45.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    I’m sure this has been noted, but fuck that asshole Grayson:

    Rep. Alan Grayson, D-Fla., whose district includes the area of the massacre, suggested to reporters that “more likely than not” the shooting spree at the nightclub was ideologically motivated.

    “Let me put it this way,” he said, “the nationality of family members is indicative.”

  46. 46.

    ThresherK

    @ArchTeryx: Yep.

    I’m just seconding what others must have said here with: What pisses me off is that “terrorism” is shorthand for something now, and that will never include shooting up a womens’ health center or a bunch of migrant workers or a gay nightclub.

    I’ve been out shopping; has anyone in the press mentioned the above?

  47. 47.

    ArchTeryx

    @celticdragonchick: It was targeted directly at the LBGTQ community, but it was an act of war against us all, and those on the right that screech otherwise are simply identifying themselves as enemies of humanity.

    I was in happy tears not long ago when my lesbian aunt finally got to marry her SO of decades. This has me in a towering gryphon rage.

    NRA delenda est.

  48. 48.

    Immanentize

    Question for Adam — a serious one — what is the likelihood that the shooter actually killed 50 people (reported as 1/2 the potential clientele at closing) hiding in a very large loud dark place versus the police having a significant responsibility for that figure? I worry that this is somewhat like the Russian/Chechen standoff in the movie theater…

  50. 50.

    D58826

    Christ on a stick we have a congresscritter begging for money for his Orlando district.

    John Luigi Mica is a businessman, consultant, and Republican politician representing Florida’s 7th congressional district in the U.S. House of Representatives since 1993. Mica was born in Binghamton, New York, but grew up in Florida and was educated at Miami Edison High School, Miami-Dade Community College and the University of Florida. Mic…

    Why am I not surprised that he is a gopthug.

  51. 51.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    Angus Johnston
    ‏@studentactivism

    Marco Rubio, who opposes marriage equality, adoption equality, and LGBT civil rights laws, is on CNN condemning Muslim bigotry against gays.

  54. 54.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Immanentize: I don’t know. This was Orlando PD SWAT. I have a very close friend who is a SWAT sniper and team leader in a different part of Florida. I know from speaking with him that they are very careful when doing a breach and enter. Given the size of Orlando I would think their SWAT team is very well trained. That said the After Action Report will indicate how many of the Orlando SWAT guys fired their weapons and how many rounds they fired. And the autopsy reports will indicate who was killed with what type of ammunition.

  55. 55.

    Peale

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: yep. I’m not biting. Muslims are 1% of the population. Those ballot initiatives that republicans run out whenever they can aren’t showing up there magically to please Muslim voters.

  57. 57.

    cbear

    @Adam L Silverman: I live about 40 miles from Orlando and local news is showing literally hundreds of people lined up around the local blood banks in Orlando, with other people bringing large donations of water, energy drinks and snacks. The donation sites are asking for people to make appts to donate in the coming days as they are overwhelmed at this time.
    Just a heads up for anybody in the immediate area.

  59. 59.

    Amaranthine RBG

    @Dupe1970: But look on the bright side, every shooting is an opportunity for gun control absolutists to cackle on and on about their pet cause.

  61. 61.

    D58826

    I’m so tired of hearing ‘no one could have predicted’. Really under what rock have these people been living for the past 20 or so years.

  62. 62.

    Amaranthine RBG

    @Adam L Silverman: The reports I’ve heard, and again this is just crap people are saying on TV, but there was supposedly a “sustained gun battle” between SWAT and he gunman. If so, I would be amazed if some of the SWAT rounds didn’t hit other people in what I assume is a crowded, dark space.

  64. 64.

    Elizabelle

    @ArchTeryx: Your dad was a wise man. And what a price we have all paid for the ammosexual fantasy boys and girls pressing their one-issue demand.

    Am sure you’ve seen this, but an excellent blogpost by T-Bogg: I was the NRA.

    We [hunted], not for the sport — although there was an element of that — but because it was a way to supplement what we ate.

    And we did this for years, raising and breeding hunting dogs, spending hours in the garage at night reloading our own shotgun shells and hand painting decoys.

    We felt safe in the field because the NRA had taught us how to be safe; to know where everyone else was when you pulled the trigger, to keep your weapon pointed at the ground, to open the breech and extract the shells if you weren’t hunting, to keep you finger off of the trigger unless you had reason to pull it.

    As I grew older I began to notice a different breed of hunter; men who showed up with multiple shotguns as if they were golf clubs needed for specific shots. While most of us wore jeans, t-shirts and hunting vests, these newcomers dressed like they were going on safari, wearing bush hats, shooting jackets (in the 100 degree heat), and cargo pants with more pockets than there existed implements to fill them. You would see them walking the fields; shotgun draped over one arm, can of beer in the other hand. We learned to stay away from them.

  65. 65.

    Villago Delenda Est

    Lt Gov Dan Patrick of Texas has covered himself with glory this time.

    What an asshole.

  66. 66.

    Adam L Silverman

    @cbear: Thanks. Good to know that there is still some evidence that humanity isn’t irrevocably doomed.

  67. 67.

    Joel

    Could this guy ever have taken a second and thought, “what the fuck am I doing?”

    I will never understand this bullshit.

  68. 68.

    Miss Bianca

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Oh, WTeverlovin’F. I thought that granted, Grayson is a shrill windbag, as embarrassing in his way as a Republican, but that at least his heart was approximately in the right place. I will never give him even the benefit of the doubt again.

    R U OK, btw? Haven’t ‘seen’ you around and was missing you…

  69. 69.

    Immanentize

    @Adam L Silverman: Thanks — but after reading the Boston Bombing Watertown shit show reports, I am uncertain that training is sufficiently sticky when the armored vehicle rolls through the wall and the ‘controlled explosions’ start going off creating, as Ozark HB would say, a “big badda boom.”

  70. 70.

    JanieM

    @Gavin: I don’t see most people — including myself — , most of the time, doing the things we do out of a need to “convince” people of stuff. That seems like a framing that comes from too much focus on politics. For an act like this one, just ridding the world of the things you hate and fear is motivation enough, no “statement” necessarily intended. Possibly no self-immolation intended either.

  71. 71.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Linnaeus: Moloch must have sacrifices.

    We are boned, as a nation. The Ammosexuals will not give up their fucking toys of death.

  72. 72.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Amaranthine RBG: I would expect the SWAT guys to be using night vision sights and headgear. That said, it wouldn’t surprise me, but speculating until the after action review and the evidence has been collected from the dead and the wounded is unlikely to help.

  73. 73.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Immanentize: I don’t disagree, but speculating isn’t going to help anyone or anything here. It is certainly both possible and plausible, beyond that we have to wait for the evidence.

  74. 74.

    Ferd ofthe Nort

    The only thing that will stop a bad man with a gun is a good man with a gun…
    Like the police officer at the door?

    I own two guns, in Canada. Polar bear defence gun and Caribou gun. Trigger lock. Ammo locked away separately. Guns locked in case. Case locked in un-disclosed location. I believe in:
    Maximum Capacity – at most 6 shots in magazine
    No Hand-guns (Restricted weapons available to specially trained with logical need, armoured car guard etc.)
    Make guns un-attractive. No military wanna-be guns. If you want to look like a soldier, join up.
    Training before ownership. Re-training during ownership. Waiting periods and delivery delays. Buying should take at least 30 days.
    Intoxicated and having a gun un-secured? Jail and no more gun.
    Gun ownership is a Privilege not a right.

    Oh, and spouting off about using your guns to defeat the tyranny of government? DISQUALIFIED as too stupid to own a gun.

  75. 75.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Obama is supposed to speak at 1:30 EDT. Hope one of the front-pagers will put up a link a little closer to the time.

    I’m not sure, in truth, what he can say that he hasn’t said many (too many!) times already. But he seems to be embracing his NMFTG freedom, so who knows?

  76. 76.

    Elizabelle

    So today is the day on which occurred the largest mass shooting in US history.

    As of June 12, 2016. Others have been memorable, but today we get the largest death toll.
    For a while.

    Thinking of the families, friends, loved ones of the Orlando peeps and all the other people affected by gun violence. This must be a fresh rip, each time it happens.

  77. 77.

    hovercraft

    Governor Batboy has deemed that it was an act of terrorism. He knows this because of the number of casualties.

  79. 79.

    Humdog

    @Ferd ofthe Nort: I really like your last point. If you think you can hold off an assoult by our government with your arsenal, you are too dangerously deluded to own a killing machine.

  80. 80.

    Adam L Silverman

    @SiubhanDuinne: If I can find a live stream link I will. I know they’d scheduled the next law enforcement update press conference for 1:30 PM EDT as well. So that’s likely been moved back.

  81. 81.

    D58826

    Take a step back and everyday of the week 52 weeks a year we kill 80+ people with guns by ones and twos. Barely if any news coverage.

  82. 82.

    coin operated

    @Ferd ofthe Nort:

    Oh, and spouting off about using your guns to defeat the tyranny of government? DISQUALIFIED as too stupid to own a gun.

    Quoted for truth…

  83. 83.

    rikyrah

    I don’t believe that his anti -gay hatred came out of the sky. It was nurtured. I think people should investigate. Was HE gay and in the closet? Killing what he hated in himself?

  87. 87.

    Ferd ofthe Nort

    @Elizabelle: I have developed these ideas over time. I also have dealt with the gunpowder addicts and their trigger masturbating before. The reason I state that I own guns is to short-circuit the usual”But you don’t understand…” crap in responses.

    Guns are death projectors. No-one has a right to death projectors.

  88. 88.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Ferd ofthe Nort:

    Make guns un-attractive. No military wanna-be guns. If you want to look like a soldier, join up.

    This is an interesting point, you know. I’ve heard a lot of contempt expressed for “assault-weapon” bans on the grounds that they’re picking on specific guns for entirely cosmetic reasons, that they look like scary military weapons when other guns that look like granddad’s hunting rifle, but are functionally identical, go un-banned. But those cosmetic differences probably matter: the ones that look military are more likely to attract the Tactical Ted types with fantasies of being the biggest badass in the world.

  89. 89.

    bystander

    @hovercraft: Governor Batboy is such a total a/hole. I wanted to punch his smirking face. He refused to answer any questions about why these weapons and these magazines are freely available.

    I don’t get it. These peabrains hate Muslims but they want to make sure that crazies have access to WMDs. Btw, was the guy who murdered the young singer the night before a Muslim? Was the guy who murdered those children in Sandy Hook a Muslim?

  91. 91.

    Ultraviolet Thunder

    Is the NRA on the Sunday shows calling for concealed carry in bars?
    Because you know they will so why wait for the blood to dry?

  92. 92.

    mike in dc

    Florida authorities still trying to determine if survivors hid in bathrooms appropriate to their birth gender.

  95. 95.

    hovercraft

    Well now the shit is really gonna hit the fan, nbc now reporting that the perp called 911 prior to the rampage and pledged his allegiance to Al Bagdadhi the head of ISIS.
    So now it’s a daily double, terrorist and homophobic hate crime.

  97. 97.

    D58826

    Pete Williams is reporting that the shooter’s ex-wife said he was abusive, unstable, and violent. He also is reporting that the shooter called 911 and swore his allegiance to ISIS.

  98. 98.

    Ferd ofthe Nort

    @Matt McIrvin: A gun is a tool. If you turn it into a play-soldier toy, people want to play soldier.
    Hunting guns should be bolt action. Even semi-automatic is too much. If you want to hunt, you should place yourself in a position for a kill, not blaze away in hopes of downing the animal. Practice with the gun, so that you can get an optimal kill. I have eaten the results of badly placed bullets. Bruised, blood-filled meat does not taste that good.

    Bear guns should be slide action or otherwise manually loaded. Recoil means that you have to re-adjust anyways. Semi-auto with slugs means you are killing a lot of sky.

    The core mechanism of a bolt action gun does not affect the covering significantly. The only reason to choose a “assault rifle” appearance is the use of a gun as a sex-toy.

    Gun-powder addicts really really like their sex-toys.

  100. 100.

    Betty Cracker

    Derr Trumpenführer is enjoying the wingnut circle jerk:

    Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 24 minutes ago

    Appreciate the congrats for being right on radical Islamic terrorism, I don’t want congrats, I want toughness & vigilance. We must be smart!

    Odious prick. How exactly is he right? This guy might have indeed been a radical Islamic terrorist, but he was born in the USA, and banning Muslims from visiting the US wouldn’t have stopped him. In fact, it would probably create 200 more just like him. That’s how hate multiplies.

  102. 102.

    Elizabelle

    @D58826:

    the shooter’s ex-wife said he was abusive, unstable, and violent.

    And yet he was armed with a military grade weapon, and apparently supported himself in a security guard position. Moar information, please.

    (PS: does this sound like a bad Muslim husband/employee/person whatever, or what? Just who you want around weaponry.)

  103. 103.

    Ultraviolet Thunder

    @Betty Cracker:
    I was holding my breath to see The Donald’s reaction, but I did not expect him to accept congratulations for predicting this horrible tragedy. The man is even more odious than I thought.

  105. 105.

    hovercraft

    @Betty Cracker:
    And he’s reveling about being ‘right’. People are dead, many of the families have not even been notified yet, and this is what he’s crowing about? If there was any doubt that he is a sociopath he has erased it.
    So I take it if he was president he would have been on TV hours ago spouting this nonsense, sowing hatred. This man is not fit to serve as a councilman let alone president.

  106. 106.

    Schlemazel Khan

    @Emma:
    Sorry but I disagree. The gundemetalist ammosexuals have already told us that if they cannot win with the ballot box they will win with the bullet box. Their words not mine. A c**t following a c**n in the White House will drive them mad and things are going to get worse. If the soulless bastards of the GOP continue to play the game of teasing the tiger nad forbid the tracking of rightwing and Xianist hate groups and outlawing any study of the causes and cures for gun violence I think we will look back at this day nad say, “only 50? Well thats not even in the top 10”

  109. 109.

    scav

    Dylann Roof explicitly wanted to start a race war, but all that was tidily swept away from other social connections under the sanitized “lone wolf’ sticker. But any desire for notority here won’t so benefit and will be accepted as gospel. Typical.

  110. 110.

    pamelabrown53

    @MomSense:
    “…competing bigotries”. I just turned on CNN to be ready for the President’s remarks. It’s all about ISIS; changed to MSNBC and it’s all about ISIS. The narrative is being set at this exact moment in time before information/facts are gathered to determine what the motivations were. It’s so disheartening. Since the cable news stay on the story constantly, they fill the airtime with speculation.

  111. 111.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Matt McIrvin: This is absolutely true. Military grade weapons DO look more badass. I have personal experience seeing this expressed by a man holding a rifle with live rounds when I was out on a training exercise in ROTC.

  113. 113.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Amaranthine RBG: Yeah, the vast majority of gun deaths come from handguns in ones and twos. I think regulating those is actually far more important than banning AR-15s.

    But it doesn’t mean these mass-killing incidents with semiautomatic rifles are unworthy of special attention. Just the amount of fear they can sow, the erosion they can do to the culture, is extraordinary.

  115. 115.

    James E Powell

    @Betty Cracker:

    There you go again – Throwing out facts & reason when this situation clearly calls for hysteria & political cheap shots.

    I’m going to follow this thing online, probably right here, because CNN and MSNBC are not good places to go.

  116. 116.

    D58826

    critter peter king is back beating the drum of using the term radical Islamic terrorism. Do these folks really think that if Obama simply placed the magic words on the white house all would be well?

  117. 117.

    Emma

    @Schlemazel Khan: So you think if Hillary wins in November there will be armed insurrection? Or if someone tries to kill her, the federal agencies won’t investigate? FFS.

    And if “good God-fearing Christians” go on a rampage then none of these pricks spouting off on tv will have a place to hide.

  118. 118.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Villago Delenda Est: Hell, I personally like playing videogames that revolve around the badassery of guns that look like that. Pretend guns, with physical characteristics laughably different from real ones, tuned to make a good game, that you actually can’t blow your own head off with, or kill anyone you’re not supposed to kill. In the multiplayer network games you play with strangers, the universe usually doesn’t even permit friendly fire. But you know there are people out there who have an incomplete grasp of these distinctions.

  119. 119.

    Mike in NC

    I walked into a liquor store just a day or two after the last mass shooting (San Bernadino). Both jackholes behind the counter were watching a report on TV and nodding about how we need to have more people carrying guns.

  121. 121.

    pamelabrown53

    Oh, Fuck! CNN just reporting that gunman made a 911 call claiming allegiance to ISIS. Trump lovers must be ecstatic: a twofer: an ISIS inspired attack on our soil murdering the “sodomites”.

  122. 122.

    Schlemazel Khan

    @Emma:
    Yes, I expect to see more of these sorts of incidents and also more attacks on Federal facilities and workers FFS.
    Congress has already outlawed studying gun violence and also inhibited the FBI and others from investigating and tracking rightwing hate groups FFS. So I expect to see the sort of escalation we saw since BHO was elected FFS. What evidence can you provide for anything other FFS?

  123. 123.

    Amaranthine RBG

    @Betty Cracker:

    I understand that your primary goal here is just to make snarky comments and not address solutions to gun violence, but other people reading this thread may not know the comparatively small number of deaths that “assault weapons” cause as compared to other types of firearms.

    If people want to reduce deaths caused by firearms, it makes sense to address the biggest drivers of gun violence.
    (Of course, the shooter here was, apparently, armed both with an “assault weapon” and a handgun.)

  125. 125.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Matt McIrvin: The entire “Good guy with a gun” taking out a “Bad guy with a gun” meme is based on a videogame understanding of firearms.

  128. 128.

    Ferd ofthe Nort

    … and I AM the Queen of England!
    Because I said it, it makes it so!

    Claims by a deranged killer on a suicide journey are perfectly valid when they meet with your prejudices. Any evidence other than crazy talk? Not an-ISIS.

  129. 129.

    Amaranthine RBG

    @SiubhanDuinne: Are you under the impression that the underlying facts of that article have changed significantly in the past 3 1/2 years?

    I wasn’t aware of any significant rise in use of “assault weapons” so I’d be be happy to know of any newer information you have. Unless, of course you are just working on your internet snark skills this morning.

  130. 130.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Amaranthine RBG:

    @Betty Cracker

    I understand that your primary goal here is just to make snarky comments and not address solutions to gun violence

    SMH at this.

  132. 132.

    Keith G

    Wow a guy was just** detained in L A with weapons and explosives heading for the Pride Parade

    **The detention was just announced it happened “Last night”

  133. 133.

    Amaranthine RBG

    @Adam L Silverman: NBC reporting that he had a “license” to carry weapons as a security guard.

    I wonder if that is any more difficult to acquire than a generic concealed carry permit in FL.

  134. 134.

    Shawn in ShowMe

    @Betty Cracker:

    I can guarantee you half of the people outside of St. Louis and Kansas City in my state think The Donald has a point. It’s probably even worse in the South, outside of the big cities. I can see the tidal wave of fascism mounting in the distance. I fear that the Left is too politically disorganized and too short-term in their thinking to stop it.

  136. 136.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Amaranthine RBG:

    I don’t, and I’m neither disputing nor confirming the facts cited in the article. Honestly, I don’t know enough to do either one. What I am saying is that you could have prefaced it by something like “The linked article is 3-1/2 years old, so the data may need to be updated” or “The article is from January 2013, but I’ve looked and there don’t seem to be newer statistics” or something.

  137. 137.

    lucslawyer

    I wish the nra would just man up and have one of their gop pawns propose legislation that would require all Americans to carry a concealed weapon. Let’s see where Americans really stand on the subject of gun ownership.

  138. 138.

    Ferd ofthe Nort

    @Ferd ofthe Nort: I also need to add – if the initial focus on gun control is the “military” sex-toy, we have a great tool for determining who should be restricted from owning hand-guns.

    The more you want a scary gun. the less you should have any gun.

  141. 141.

    Shawn in ShowMe

    @pamelabrown53:

    You’re talking about President “Before I speak, I like to know what I’m talking about.” When have you known Obama to speculate on matters of life and death? If he’s already treating this an ISIS related shooting, his track record tells us that is an ISIS related shooting. Unless the Pentagon is just using a respected black guy as a mouthpiece for well-crafted lies again. Wouldn’t be the first time.

  142. 142.

    Amaranthine RBG

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    Yes, and you could have spent 10 minutes doing a little research to see whether the numbers had changed in the past few years and actually added something to the conversation, but, instead you decided to make a snarky comment about how the article is 3 1/2 years old, which is something obvious to anyone who followed the link.

  143. 143.

    Major Major Major Major

    @SiubhanDuinne: I would assume they’re much more prevalent in headline-grabbing *mass* shootings like aurora or this or Santa Barbara (I think?) or sandy hook. The fact that handguns are predominantly used in homicides, while true (and we should do something about it) doesn’t change that.

  144. 144.

    hovercraft

    @Adam L Silverman:
    I know that FOIA requires the release of the tape, but I wish they would not grant his wish to have his pledge broadcast to the world. I support not goving them the notoriety they want.

  145. 145.

    trollhattan

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    One of the reasons you’re having difficulty finding complete and up to date data is congress has created barriers to gathering and studying it. The same congress that has protected gun makers from liability suits.

  147. 147.

    Betty Cracker

    @Amaranthine RBG: Like all ammosexuals, your first thought is to defend your precious, even before the blood is hosed out of the latest massacre scene. Sick fuck.

  148. 148.

    Mike in NC

    @lucslawyer: We laugh at these clowns but one year the Republicans ran the infamous Ollie North for US Senate in Virginia, and “more guns/open carry” was a central part of his platform.

  151. 151.

    pamelabrown53

    @Shawn in ShowMe:
    I have zero idea what you’re talking about. President Obama is amazing and I, for one, will not sleep as well at night without his steady, calm intellect at the helm.

  152. 152.

    PaulWartenberg2016

    @janelle:

    Worst of all, because the perpetrator was Muslim that is what the wingnutteria will put all of the focus on and most of the media will happily comply. Gun control, shmun control. Besides, if 20 dead first graders couldn’t get the GOP fuckheads to budge on gun control, I’ve got serious doubts that 50 dead gay people will.

    This. a thousand times this.

  154. 154.

    Matt McIrvin

    @SiubhanDuinne: I’m pretty sure the pattern he’s describing is still true. I still don’t see how it negates, say, the points that Ferd ofthe Nort is making (you’ll note that handguns and “assault rifles” are both included in what he wants banned).

  155. 155.

    PaulWartenberg2016

    @Amaranthine RBG:

    If people want to reduce deaths caused by firearms, it makes sense to address the biggest drivers of gun violence.

    That’s true.

    The biggest cause of gun violence is Angry Guy with Easy Access to Guns.

    So the solution is simple.

    Kill All Guys.

    I am not joking. If we can’t get rid of assault rifles that turn shootings into bloodbaths, then we’ll have to get rid of the assholes pulling the triggers.

    Even if that includes myself. Granted, I don’t own a gun, but I am a guy. So be it. It’s the only way to be safe. Just do me a favor and get rid of all the gun-owning assholes first. Thank you.

  156. 156.

    James E Powell

    Side question, but what is the explanation for the gun nuts’ passionate concern with the distinction between a magazine and a clip. I get it, they are not the same thing. I get it, some maybe many people including people in movies and TV shows fail to make the appropriate distinction. Why so important?

  157. 157.

    Adam L Silverman

    @hovercraft: I agree. I think one of the best things that could be done is actually minimize the how of the coverage of these types of events. They should be covered, but our media is wired for sensationalism as it drives profit. That certainly doesn’t help.

  158. 158.

    hovercraft

    I love the emphasis my president placed on the LGBT community. An attack against them is an attack on America. I will miss him.
    They are going to whine because he said act of terror and not Islamic Jihadi Terrorism.

  159. 159.

    Amaranthine RBG

    @Betty Cracker:

    You were posting about this and polishing your favorite talking points hours before I was.

    Look, gun violence is a serious problem in this country and serious people need to have a fact-based conversation about it.

    Your insults and name calling apparently fill some psychological hole in your soul, but they don’t move the needle toward a solution.

    Grow up.

  160. 160.

    Matt McIrvin

    @James E Powell: It’s a pure shibboleth, a way of dismissing people as ignorant unless they’re already embedded in the subculture, which also makes them more politically sympathetic–since you can hardly go to a shooting range or a gun shop without being inundated with NRA propaganda.

  161. 161.

    Adam L Silverman

    @James E Powell: The 2nd Amendment absolutists/maximalists, like every sub-culture, and especially like everyone that thinks it is under attack and threatened, has a number of sacralized concepts. One of those is how to tell if someone really knows what he or she is talking about in regard to firearms. One way to tell that is if you know the difference between a magazine and a clip. Another is which side of “its a silencer, no its a suppressor, no its called either or both” divide you are on. And automatic and semi-automatic are different. And a huge pet peeve of theirs is that the news media can’t ever seem to take the time to get this stuff straight and they think it is intended to purposefully misinform Americans in pursuit of a treasonous anti-2nd Amendment conspiracy.

    Also, do not get any of them started on 9mm versus 45 acp. Caliber wars are ugly.

  162. 162.

    Shawn in ShowMe

    @PaulWartenberg2016:

    President Obama, from all appearances, is a good man. But the military and intelligence community is responsible for delivering information to him. If they choose to give him bad information, he will give us bad information. Have you ever wondered our foreign policy is horrible no matter who’s in office? That’s why.

    I’m hoping that this is not an act of terror. ‘Cause once a “clear and present danger” emerges, you can bet that a horrible foreign policy design won’t be far behind.

  163. 163.

    James E Powell

    @Shawn in ShowMe:

    I can guarantee you half of the people outside of St. Louis and Kansas City in my state think The Donald has a point.

    We just watched Trump obliterate the most well-known and well-funded Republicans in the nations. One thing we can be sure of is that there are millions of people who think he has a point.

  164. 164.

    Amaranthine RBG

    @trollhattan: Sure, why not?

    More people are shot in Chicago in an ordinary week than were shot last night in Orlando. Week after week after week. It seems to me that the goal is reducing deaths, not just reducing deaths caused by a particular type of weapon that some people obsess about.

  165. 165.

    trollhattan

    @James E Powell:
    It’s a gotcha to pin on anybody who doesn’t like guns, “proving” they’re not entitled to an opinion. Kind of like having an opinion on cars while not being able to describe how an automatic transmission works. Funny enough, I know folks who’ve been in the military and use the terms interchangeably.

  167. 167.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Shawn in ShowMe: Here’s the US Code:

    18 U.S. Code § 2331 – Definitions
    (5) the term “domestic terrorism” means activities that—
    (A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
    (B) appear to be intended—
    (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
    (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
    (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
    (C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.

    It can be terrorism without it being Islamic or even religiously motivated.

  170. 170.

    lucslawyer

    @Amaranthine RBG:
    “Look, gun violence is a serious problem in this country and serious people need to have a fact-based conversation about it.”

    Well, that sounds a lot like an nra spokesman telling his people to cool it – this will blow over and people will have forgotten about it a few months down the road.

  171. 171.

    Betty Cracker

    @Amaranthine RBG: Deflect and spin, little gun-humper! You’ve managed to work in just about every post-massacre NRA talking point: “Chicago” — check. “Assault weapons” always rendered in scare quotes — check. Concern trolling about people discussing gun control in the wake of a massacre — check.

  172. 172.

    hovercraft

    @Mike in DC:
    I was just thinking that, now we have 9/11 and 6/11. I wonder if that was intentional. Pride week will always be tainted by this, but it can now also be an occasion to celebrate these stolen lives. They may hate, but we can celebrate as out, loud and proud.

  173. 173.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Shawn in ShowMe: I don’t disagree with you. But believe it or not we officially determine if something is an act of terrorism based on that code. So if the investigation bears out that what was done early this morning fits within that criminal statute, then that is what it is.

  174. 174.

    Shell

    Odious prick. How exactly is he right?

    You must remember, no matter what happens, its always all about Trump.

  176. 176.

    Amaranthine RBG

    @lucslawyer: Oh please.

    It “blows over” all the fucking time. The question is how to change the narrative.

    People like Betty don’t give a shit about actually solving problems. They are just looking for a platform to broadcast how absolutist they are and how much they *care”. The net result of that has been a big pile of nothing.

  177. 177.

    Betty Cracker

    @Amaranthine RBG: As a person who will be haunted by a mass shooting I witnessed until the day I die, I goddamned well do have a bigger stake in this argument than a pathetic little gun-humper such as yourself, and I’m confident I’ve done more IRL to address the issue in a constructive way than a muzzle-stroking concern troll like you. Fire, find, die within, etc.

  178. 178.

    lucslawyer

    @Amaranthine RBG:
    You are good, no doubt about it. I take it you have been down this road before. A couple of questions: can you give me a number of deaths by firearms (handguns, rifles of all kinds, etc.) that you feel must be reached before any kind of serious debate can take place about gun control in this country? Do you think the nra or any other gun owner association would commit to giving such a number?

  182. 182.

    Amaranthine RBG

    @Betty Cracker: Your overweening self regard is such that you apparently think you are the only person in America who has been directly affected by gun violence and, therefore, only your opinion counts.

    Your habit if immediately ratcheting the insults and death wishes and “go die in a fire” rhetoric are emblematic of the underlying problem in this country. That people hate people who are different and hold different opinions. You are part of the problem.

  183. 183.

    RaflW

    @tonymess
    The thought of 1 transgender person one day entering a bathroom spurs emergency legislation. Mass shootings day after day? Crickets.

    x1000

    The GOP is and remains utterly in thrall to the NRA and the easy millions in gun manufacturers campaign cash. Any blather about the constitution is total, 100% bullsit.

  184. 184.

    Betty Cracker

    @Amaranthine RBG: No, you blithering idiot — the point is my experience is all too fucking common. I count myself lucky because I was only traumatized, not maimed or killed like tens of thousands of Americans are every single year — people whose lives Wayne LaPierre fart-huffers such as yourself accept as the reasonable cost of FREEDUMB. I discount your opinion because you slither onto this blog when there’s a mass shooting and start with the passive-aggressive NRA talking points. Fuck that bullshit. No one wants to hear it today.

  185. 185.

    Amaranthine RBG

    @Betty Cracker:

    Here’s what you said above:

    As a person who will be haunted by a mass shooting I witnessed until the day I die, I goddamned well do have a bigger stake in this argument than a pathetic little gun-humper such as yourself,

    After I pointed out that YOU DO NOT HAVE A FUCKING CLUE about what my experiences have been with gun violence, you crawfish away. Here’s what you are saying now:

    No, you blithering idiot — the point is my experience is all too fucking common.

    You’ll notice in the first post that you state that your personal experience of being involved in a shooting explicitly gives your more of a stake in these matters than I have.

    That’s wrong for a number of reasons, of course. First your assumption that you have more personal, firsthand experience with gun violence than I do and second, that you need to have such experience to have a stake in this discussion. Someone thinking rationally would realize that.

    Now that I have called you on your bullshit you are backpedaling.

    Just like above you scolded me for posting about this “before the blood was even washed off the floor” or some other overwrought phrase but when I pointed out that you had been posting about it hours before me —oopsie, let’s change the subject.

    Now you’re trying to climb back up on your rhetorical high horse with “No one wants to hear it today.” What you mean to say is that “I don’t want to hear anything that doesn’t explicitly reference and reinforce my views.”

    You immediately dismiss anyone’s experience that differs from your own and launch into disturbing and violent rhetoric. Like I said – you are part of the problem.

  186. 186.

    scav

    Someone is very confused about themselves and the actual problem. But they will likely remain clueless. Moreover, their overarching goal will likely win because this is ‘merca and we’ve all watched this game played before.

  187. 187.

    Betty Cracker

    @Amaranthine RBG: Am I supposed to pretend I don’t know you used to post here under the nym “Steve of Antioch”? You’ve been peddling the NRA line on this blog in the wake of mass shootings for ages. Which is beyond despicable, BTW. And when people call you on your bullshit, you invariably revert to the aggrieved butt hurt you’re pulling in this thread. GFY, you loathsome tool of death merchants.

  188. 188.

    Amaranthine RBG

    Here’s what you said above:

    As a person who will be haunted by a mass shooting I witnessed until the day I die, I goddamned well do have a bigger stake in this argument than a pathetic little gun-humper such as yourself,

    After I pointed out that YOU DO NOT HAVE A FUCKING CLUE about what my experiences have been with gun violence, you crawfish away. Here’s what you are saying now:

    No, you blithering idiot — the point is my experience is all too fucking common.

    You’ll notice in the first post that you state that your personal experience of being involved in a shooting explicitly gives your more of a stake in these matters than I have.

    That’s wrong for a number of reasons, of course. First your assumption that you have more personal, firsthand experience with gun violence than I do and second, that you need to have such experience to have a stake in this discussion. Someone thinking rationally would realize that.

    Now that I have called you on your bullshit you are backpedaling.

    Just like above you scolded me for posting about this “before the blood was even washed off the floor” or some other overwrought phrase but when I pointed out that you had been posting about it hours before me —oopsie, let’s change the subject.

    Now you’re trying to climb back up on your rhetorical high horse with “No one wants to hear it today.” What you mean to say is that “I don’t want to hear anything that doesn’t explicitly reference and reinforce my views.”

    You immediately dismiss anyone’s experience that differs from your own and launch into disturbing and violent rhetoric. Like I said – you are part of the problem.

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