President Obama gave a lengthy statement to the media in which he excoriated the idiot Trump without mentioning his name once and hung that bloated orange albatross around the necks of Republican officials. The section on the idiotic “radical Islam” controversy begins at approximately 1:05:
The whole thing is worth hearing; PBO also provides updates on the fight against ISIS and calls for reinstating the ban on assault weapons, framing it as a way to get tough on terrorism. Choice excerpts on the “Radical Islam” thing via Buzzfeed [full transcript here — thanks, Tractarian]:
“What exactly will using this label [radical Islam] accomplish?” Obama said. “What will it change? Would it make ISIL less committed to trying to kill Americans? Would it bring us more allies? Is there a military strategy that is served by this? The answer is none of the above.”
He went on to say that there has never been a moment in his time as president that he has not been able to pursue a strategy because he did not use the label “radical Islam.”
“Not once has an adviser of mine said, ‘Man, if we really used that phrase, would we turn this around,’” Obama said. “Not once.”
President Obama blasted Trump’s proposal of barring all Muslims from coming to the United States.
“Are we going to start treating all Muslim Americans differently?” Obama said. “Do Republican officials actually agree with this?”
Obama concluded that history has shown “when we acted out of fear … we came to regret it.”
“We’ve seen our government mistreat our fellow citizens and it has been a shameful part of our history,” he said.
Boom. Grenade’s in your court, Combover Caligula.
Tractarian
Full transcript here.
Joyce H
I wonder how American evangelicals would enjoy it if we started calling clinic bombers and right wing militias ‘radical Christianity’?
schrodinger's cat
Reposting from the last thread since my edit and original comment are still languishing in moderation.
I saw the President’s speech, I am fired up and ready to go. Trump has been consistent about one thing since the beginning of his campaign. Attack on immigrants. The Mexican rapists and banning Muslims and other heated rhetoric are the window dressing to the ultimate game plan, getting rid of the 1965 Immigration and Nationality Act.. Read any right wing nativist site if you don’t believe me.
father pussbucket
PBO is PO’d. That was masterful. I wonder if he’s been waiting months or years for the ideal moment to respond to this BS.
Mnemosyne
For some reason, libertarians and fundie Christians have a weird belief in “magic words.” They really think that if you find the right combination of words, it suddenly unlocks a new level and changes the game they’re playing.
You see it all the time with the anti-government nuts and their crazy court filings. They really think that if they include a specifically-worded paragraph in their legal brief, the judge has to let them go.
After all, what was the initial Benghazi conspiracy? It was that Susan Rice didn’t use the correct phrase in her TV appearance. It all spun out from there.
Corner Stone
Trump has been taking incoming in a brutal fashion. HRC, then Obama, then HRC again. Just in the last 24 hours. I saw some MSNBC Joe and he was also brutalizing Trump and calling on GOP leaders to “stand up”.
This oughtta send the Trump right through the freaking ceiling, asap.
The Dangerman
Best President of my lifetime (and I ain’t that young)….
ETA: Kennedy gets an Incomplete, Eisenhower was only for a few weeks but he should get consideration …. and Carter was a much, much better ex-President….
schrodinger's cat
Trump is the manifestation of the hate whipped up by the GOP and their willing media minions. The cheerleaders like Fox and the neutral both-sidery ones like giggling Amy Walter and Gwen Ifill.
rikyrah
On President is on fire and taking names. I love that he won’t name Ferrethead, but everyone knows he’s talking about Ferrethead.
zzyzx
@The Dangerman: For me it’s only Johnson (I got a little under 2 weeks of him) as competition, but it’s hard to decide how much Vietnam cancels out civil rights bills.
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: Don’t forget getting the fringe right on the courtroom flag.
Napoleon
@Mnemosyne:
I think it is the right in general and my hypothesis is that they have been so successful over the past 35 years, but in particular since 94, at repackaging their same old turd sandwich using new terms and then having people vote for them that at this point they think they are one rephrasing away from right wing nirvana. And to tell you the truth, its not as if there is not some true to that working for them.
Immanentize
@Joyce H: I prefer “radical cleric” for xian pastors and preachers who peddle in hate.
Chris
@Mnemosyne:
Yep. They think reality is an Earthsea novel.
Miss Bianca
Stil can’t quite fathom how what struck me as a series of measured, if somewhat understandably fed-up, remarks got branded as a “tirade”. Really?
schrodinger's cat
@Joyce H: If we are talking about beliefs, how are the beliefs of Kim Davis and the abortion opposing fundies different than that of Taliban or IS.
raven
@zzyzx: Fuck LBJ
Irony Abounds
Damn you 22nd Amendment!
Corner Stone
Did anyone else notice during Trump’s speech yesterday how he seemed to be struggling to pull in a breath? It was seriously tiring and painful after a while. I think the dude’s got problems other than mental.
D58826
Paul Ryan seems to be going all in on ‘old little hands’
On the democratic side reports are that Bernie will not suspend his campaign or endorse Hillary tonight. But he wants to defeat ‘old little hands’. He just doesn’t say how unless he assumes that there will be a massive write in campaign in November. Thanks for next to nothing.
Woodrowfan
@Mnemosyne: don’t forget their insistence that the NAZI’s were leftwing because they had the word “Socialist” int heir name. Their policies were almost entirely rightwing, and they had the backing of German conservatives, but that word trumps everything else.
Corner Stone
@Joyce H:
“I am a warrior for the babbies!”
GregB
@Mnemosyne:
The very first argument about Benghazi was that the US didn’t stand up for the film maker of the propganda movie. That was the first beef.
Immanentize
@Mnemosyne:
Yet at the same time they reject “language police” and political correctness. But maybe it is just two sides of the same coin — they believe firmly in the battle over spin so when they see success on the other side (as in inclusive speech) they see that as a loss for Team One-Of-Us.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@Joyce H: Long overdue if you ask me. LONG OVERDUE. And I have no problem with Islamic terror being called exactly that, it’s committed by Muslims, and it’s terror, and the people funding and perpetrating it are religious fundamentalists.
I also have no issue with it NOT being referred to as such, there are some good diplomatic reasons to not slur an entire religion with the actions of a few bad apples and the President should not be in the business of name calling, but…I’m not the president, and I’m way past the point of giving Christianity that same benefit of the doubt so I think I’ll just go ahead and pile on the Muslims too.
They’re all assholes when you get right down to it.
ETA: this is a tirade? Oh, media, let me introduce you to my parents (who are still alive and healthy because they are mean as shit) and they’ll show you what a “tirade” is. When I was a child, that wouldn’t have even met the criteria for “raising your voice”.
Corner Stone
@D58826:
Do you mean he’s staying on the Trump bandwagon, or is Ryan now saying something negative about Trump?
catclub
@father pussbucket:
But CNN calls this an angry tirade. Irritating.
Immanentize
@raven: Really unhappy image, that, raven! Sheesh — as if his gallbladder scar wasn’t enough for all time….
Corner Stone
@Miss Bianca: I agree with you. It was a good speech, and certainly emphatically (and exasperatedly) delivered but I didn’t see the tirade or other hyperbolic headline nonsense out of that speech.
opiejeanne
@Corner Stone: He looks tired. Doesn’t he look tired?
SiubhanDuinne
Busy day for POTUS. Now he is addressing the United State of Women conference.
catclub
The WaPo editorial/article I read on the Abyss was surprising. I was surprised it made it into the paper.
Effects already of Trump banning their reporters?
D58826
@Corner Stone: he is volunteering to be one of the mules pulling the wagon
Corner Stone
Repeating from previous thread:
I do fervently hope that his dismissal of the stupid and damaging “radical Islam” BS talking point causes MSNBC to never, ever let Hugh Hewitt back on their air. HH was beating on this BS talking point and PC culture all day yesterday after Trump’s speech.
wenchacha
Continue to love the NFLTG Obama.
And, watching CNN, I am struck by how gay-friendly the broadcast has been today. I just watched Coop hammer FL AG Pam Bondi about her previous arguments to the Court about what harm might be caused by allowing gay marriage. Legal mumbo-jumbo, no doubt, but just the sort of argument leveled by intolerant churches.
raven
@Immanentize: And his phony ass silver star.
O. Felix Culpa
My mom grew up in Nazi Germany. From what I remember of her stories of childhood, Trump’s scapegoating and “othering” of minority groups sounds disturbingly similar. The repeated hate-speech ultimately pervades the atmosphere and over time becomes normalized. I’m glad that President Obama is challenging Trump’s hate-mongering head-on.
Shell
Think it was something about him being shocked, shocked! that Trump is talking about a ban on Muslims. Except he conviently forgets that he’s been saying the same thing at least since the first primary debate.
zzyzx
@Mnemosyne: The fundies are the worst about that. If you say the magic Sinner’s Prayer, you’re forgiven of everything you’ve ever done. If you don’t, you are tortured eternally. Seems like a weird way to run a cosmos.
aimai
@Mnemosyne: I think it all goes back to the foundational belief that you aren’t saved if you haven’t said the right words, and that the right words exist in the bible. There is a terror of things that are negotiable, or nuanced, or complex. And a desire to define things as definitely good, or definitely bad.
NorthLeft12
From my vantage point in the Great Green North, I don’t see that the Republicans have suffered much for their idiocy, racism, misogyny, prejudice, and [purposely redundant] stupidity over the last thirty years or so.
They keep getting elected and the voters and the media continue to give them the benefit of the doubt. Does anyone on here really think that McConnell or Ryan or any others of that ilk, are going to be punished at the polls for their support of Trump?
Ryan especially is a vile and repulsive creature who somehow maintains an image of being a good and reasonable man while proposing policies that will punish the poor and middle classes while enriching the already wealthy. The man should be fully exposed as a dangerous and selfish con man. In my mind, even more dangerous than Trump because he has the full faith of the pundit class.
zzyzx
@aimai: Ha! Beat you by seconds!
Chris
Also,
Once again, this needs to be noted here: before “radical Islam” was the magic phrase, “terrorism” was the magic phrase. Obama didn’t say “terrorism.” Obama didn’t say “terrorism!” What’s wrong with him? What is he afraid of? What is he hiding? … until it came out at that debate that actually, he had said it and said it all the time, and Mittens ended up with egg all over his face. They were briefly quiet after that. A little while later, they were back with new magic words: “radical Islam! You won’t say ‘radical Islam!'”
It’s all bullshit.
(Also, I have to laugh at the phrase “radical Islam.” What the fuck does that even mean? “Qutbism,” “Salafism,” “Wahhabism,” yeah. Or heck, call it “traditionalist Islam” or “reactionary Islam” or whatever. Even just “Islam” is a less vague term. “Radical Islam” is meaningless; the Al-Fatiha Foundation that advocates for LGBTQA recognition within Islam, and the Saudi religious police, are both “radical Muslims,” for different meanings of the word “radical”).
Corner Stone
@opiejeanne: He looks like he’s at a point of physical exhaustion and mental unhinged-ness.
I tend to think that if the media had forced him to physically show up for even half of those “call ins” during the primary he would not have physically been able to make it to the end.
aimai
@catclub: Fuck cnn. That’s the god damned calmest angry black man in the UNIVERSE.
aimai
@zzyzx: Great minds! Lousy subject! But great minds!
Betty Cracker
@Corner Stone: I noticed that too. He has literally become a mouth breather.
different-church-lady
This entire election is going to come down to whether we have more adults or children in this country.
I don’t know whether to be hopeful or despairing.
jonas
@Joyce H:
Molesty/rapey Catholic priests should be referred to incessantly as “Christian pedophiles”. Fundamentalist Mormon cultists would “Christian Child Bride Rapists” and Hitler should now be referenced as “baptized Christian Adolf Hitler”.
It would bring so much clarity to a variety of political and historical issues.
different-church-lady
@Immanentize: Projection: it’s not just a river in Egypt.
Stacy
@wenchacha: That was some righteous scorching by AC. Loved how she tried to deflect his hypocrite accusations by talking about the victims as if what he was saying did not directly relate to why they were the ones killed! How does she look at herself in the mirror?
different-church-lady
@Irony Abounds:
It seems that way now, but believe me, without the 22nd amendment the rotting corpse of Ronald Reagan would still be president today.
LAO
I don’t know about the rest of you, but it’s only Tuesday afternoon and I could really use a drink. Between the media’s totally and utter abdication of its responsibilities, the slaughter Saturday night and Trump’s speech yesterday, I’m super done. How I wish for a 3rd Obama term (and I like Hillary).
Chris
@different-church-lady:
I would’ve known better than to vote for Trump as a ten-year old child. Probably younger than that.
Miss Bianca
@Mnemosyne: I’d like to think that this speech might give some of the usual suspects pause before they start in with their “say the words, say the words, why won’t you JUST SAY THE RIGHT WERRRDS” incantations.
I’d *like* to think that. It would give me pleasure.
On the other hand, I now have images of Gandalf trying every magic word he can think of before the doors of Durin: “Speak friend and enter!”
Major Major Major Major
@different-church-lady: That reminds me of all my friends bemoaning that we didn’t have a parliament in 2009-2010 because it would have made things so much easier to pass. A year later I got to say, glad we don’t have a Prime Minister Boehner? I was mostly met with grumbles.
Poopyman
@Corner Stone: Expect the press to double down and continue to frame the speech for its tone rather than content, because obfuscation of that message is their goal.
scott (the other one)
@Corner Stone: I saw him going up on stage during a rally on Friday night on MSNBC and I thought he looked like he was having a tiny bit of trouble going up the stairs. Like, not a ton. Just a little. But it made me wonder about his health. I mean, he’s 70 years old—I’m in my mid-40s and I don’t run up steps the way I used to, so I’m not casting aspersions. It’s just that this whole running for president thing is a physically grueling task and I’m wondering if he’s already starting to get worn down.
Corner Stone
@NorthLeft12:
The best possible outcome of a Trump run for president is that after he threatens and bans enough of the media they may decide there are ratings to be had by asking Ryan about his actual policies. If Trump is this fucking nuts, and he’s their nominee, and Ryan endorses him – then what the hell is Ryan have for us to expose?
Now, I’m not silly enough to think they will risk pissing off 27% to 35% of their potential viewers/readers. But the door is open now because Trump is just a flat out fucking monster. IMO *someone* is going to look inside that room and decide to report on it, with a big megaphone. We all already know what a phony and hypocrite Ryan is, but…
WaterGirl
@Joyce H: I kept waiting for obama to say that exact thing. Alas, I was disappointed. What he did say was great, though.
Miss Bianca
@LAO: Michelle Obama is probably really thankful for the existence of the 22nd Amendment right now, however much the rest of us may deplore it.
schrodinger's cat
@O. Felix Culpa: Did you see that Trump blamed the incident on the Immigration and Nationality act of 1965?
Or something similar. Mateen’s parents came to this country in the 1980s.
glory b
@Miss Bianca: Well, angry black dude and all that.
Elie
The LA Times and WAPO are on offense. LA TIMES said that they would oppose him in their editorials etc, till the last dog dies …
Josh Marshall and others are speculating whether Trump is gonna somehow drop out at some point..
LAO
@Miss Bianca: So true.
And to add a small amount of levity to my day (and hopefully yours as well) — looks like the Christie has a couple of problems and Hillary not the only one with an email issue.
Corner Stone
@Poopyman:
They may try that to some degree but HRC looks locked in on NMFTG campaign mode and it seems ZFTG Obama now is also not going to let them just skirt past what was actually said.
If anyone saw HRC’s response to Trump’s speech, it was good. And on point. She blistered his ass and stated clearly that after all the lies and nonsense he had two things to say, one of them being about banning Muslims.
catclub
@scott (the other one):
Hillary has been doing it for YEARS and has the endurance. Trump is lazy and prefers to fly home every single night to his own bed.
bystander
@aimai: When they come up with this, say it, say it crap, I also hear, “Jump, boy, jump.”
schrodinger's cat
Trump’s hate speech now encompasses
1. The undocumented
2. Muslims
3. Naturalized citizens
4. Children of naturalized citizens
5. Children of the undocumented or those on temporary visas (anchor babies)
Am I leaving anyone out?
Betty Cracker
@wenchacha: Oooo, I missed that. Will have to find a clip later. It’s good to see Bondi and that alien from Planet Reptar she serves outed as complete hypocrites.
Betty Cracker
@schrodinger’s cat: Women.
zmulls
Is “Old Little Hands” the new pejorative name for Trump?
Why don’t we just call him ‘Littlefinger” and be done with it.
(Or “Littlefingers”…..)
Betty Cracker
@schrodinger’s cat: Gosh, I wonder who was president then…
daves09
@D58826: Sanders is doing a live feed on Thurs. night. People can go to his website and sign up for it. He’ll either do the right thing-concede and endorse- or pull a fundie scam. Hoping for the best.
Iowa Old Lady
How long until the R convention? How much danger are we in of them choosing someone else?
schrodinger's cat
@Betty Cracker: Thanks! But he can’t seriously even propose to deport all women. I was counting the groups he wants to ban and/or deport.
patrick II
When republicans want the President to say “radical Islamic terrorism” they are, in part, trying to get the president to use words that justify their own use of torture, rendition, murder and gitmo. Radical Islamic terrorists are not in a regular army, so we are not bound by international law and the Geneva Convention. United States citizens who are “radical Islamic terrorists” are, republicans contend, outside of domestic law so they are also subject to torture as the Bush administration did to Jose Padilla.
“Radical Islamic terrorists” have been asserted by republicans to be associated with the broader “War of civilizations” between the Christian and Muslim worlds, justifying fear and appeal to the nonlegal means by which Bush and Cheney could show they were tough guys instead of the f*ckups that ignored the threat and then were incompetent and criminal in belated response.
Miss Bianca
@glory b: Well, yeah, but…seriously? *That’s* their idea of “angry black dude”? They really must not get out very much!
Now *this* is “angry black dude”…
Corner Stone
@catclub:
That WaPo OpEd. HAHAHAHAHA
schrodinger's cat
@Betty Cracker: Weren’t the Mujhedeen, the soldiers of God or something like that? I was too young to follow loliticks then.
Bailey
I agree that GOP looking for the “magic words” of “Radical Islam” is a complete diversion from the actual problem. There’s no upside to doing it but there is the downside in not alienating the entire Muslim population and allies.
I’m disappointed that Clinton has now decided to break from the Prez on this and conclude that using phrase is just fine after all.
Poopyman
@Corner Stone: True, and the quicker they drive MSM to irrelevance the better.
Elmo
@opiejeanne: Six words! “Don’t you think [he] looks tired?”
SiubhanDuinne
Bernie is giving a speech now. It seems to be his standard campaign stump speech. WTF.
Go home, Bernie. Your shelf life has expired.
LAO
@Betty Cracker: Not only was the sainted Reagan president at the time — it was US policy to embraces Afghanis because they were fighting the Russians. So, yeah.
Gavin
Video starts at about 52:30 in the linked..
Poopyman
Poor Randinho! Foosball threads getting blown out of the water by fast-moving national events.
Corner Stone
@Bailey:
I think you may be misunderstanding her stance. Her response speech to Trump’s speech was pretty clear that use of the phrase was not helpful and she would not denigrate an entire faith.
catclub
@Bailey: Apparently there is a distinction between ‘radical Islam’ and ‘radical islamism’ or ‘radical islamist’. Clinton seems to think that the second term is ok for not smearing all Muslims, but the first she avoided using.
Roger Moore
@Mnemosyne:
In this particular case, I think the goal is to set this up as a clash of civilizations. They genuinely want something very different from what the President (any anyone else sane) wants: they want us to be at war with all of Islam rather than just a handful of crazies who like to call themselves Muslims. I think at least part of the hope is that by pushing us first to say “Radical Islam” they can then open things up to saying just “Islam” and convince enough Muslims that we really want war with them that they’ll all attack us and we can’t avoid fighting back. It’s all a part of their apocalyptic cult.
Bailey
@Corner Stone:
Well, she made it clear that she wouldn’t denigrate the entire faith, but she did absolutely say that she’d be “happy to say either” (meaning radical jihadism or radical Islamism). Call it what you want, but this is a break with the Prez and I think he absolutely has it right.
JustRuss
@Corner Stone:
And the WaPo is just now noticing this? Jesus. I guess now we know the answer to what it takes to make a news org do actual journalism: Publicly insult them and ban them from covering your campaign.
I hope someone of prominence will point out that they were happy to pretend Trump was a serious candidate until he made good on the implicit threat to revoke their precious access if they got out of line.
schrodinger's cat
@Roger Moore: You are making it sound like the they want to be the Christian IS with a nuclear arsenal. I have no insight into either fundamentalist Islam or Christianity to make any educated guesses.
muddy
@Corner Stone: @Betty Cracker: Maybe his corset is too tight.
gvg
@catclub:
You know, that would actually increase time spent traveling and make someone more tired. Again, he is an idiot. I wonder why. does any one have a link confirming this storey?
Quinerly
@Corner Stone:
I noticed it immediately. Very pronounced in that phoney moment of silence. Has there been any commentary on it? I kinda thought Dr. Maddow would mention it.
schrodinger's cat
@muddy: ManSpanx and Bro?
The Dangerman
@zzyzx:
Cancels it out completely, actually.
Also, while I lean towards Oswald being a lone actor, if there WAS a conspiracy (not saying there was, just saying IF there was), there’s a shitload of evidence that points towards Johnson.
Felonius Monk
Since der TrumpenFarter is ISIL’s best recruiter shouldn’t he be in jail or at least exiled?
muddy
@schrodinger’s cat: Not strong enough. Actual corset.
trollhattan
@Iowa Old Lady:
I give it 1:100, at best. He’s their nominee while they tell themselves Republicans have superior internal controls and thus, will keep him reined in.
We feel differently of course, but the bubble lives.
Gelfling545
@The Dangerman: I’m not young – even my Medicare card has a few years on it – and our President is the outright best in my lifetime. I do feel that Pres. Carter gets a bad rep that is undeserved. People said they wanted an outsider & turns out they really didn’t. Also, he had to tell the country some uncomfortable facts that they weren’t inclined to hear.
Elie
@Iowa Old Lady:
Naw — he has too big a crazy following. No way to map those folks over to support a new Republican nominee. I think — no – KNOW — they are stuck.
Corner Stone
@muddy:
That actually would help explain his “Joan Rivers like arm motions” as another commenter put it yesterday. The corset is so tight he can only move his arms from the elbow down, and his upper arms are immobile due to the restriction on his torso. It’s painful for him to lift his elbows above his ribs.
I will now buy the house a round of bleach shots.
schrodinger's cat
@muddy: He is fat, that’s why he wears those long coats even in summer.
JPL
@Bailey: If you listen to the entire statement, she really doesn’t support labeling a religion as terrorist.
schrodinger's cat
@Corner Stone: Shots? We need the whole jug to wipe that image.
Immanentize
@raven: DAMN!
I am a big Caro fan and have read all the books (to date) but I never heard that story. Had to use Mr. Internet. Wow, just WOW. “Raider Johnson” indeed.
Thank you for the point on that tidbit.
D58826
Ah that’s why there is an air pollution alert in NC. Old little hands is due in Greenville.
Iowa Old Lady
@trollhattan: @Elie: Thank goodness.
I wonder if he knows how badly he’s coming across.
Patricia Kayden
@schrodinger’s cat: Never thought about that aspect of Trump’s rhetoric but that makes perfect sense that they’re going after all immigrants and just using Muslims and Mexicans as test cases.
It’s scary how dangerous a potential Trump Presidency would be to so many Americans. I cannot imagine what he and his supporters are planning to do to minorities, especially in light of the fact that the alt right has venomously attacked Jewish journalists who even vaguely criticize Trump.
And he’s the best Republicans could cough up in 2016. Says a lot about them.
aimai
@Bailey: Lets try to take a little more of the Obama attitude about things. One speech. One phrase. Really doesn’t matter. Its the totality of the campaign she runs and the policies she pursues that matters. I’d also like to point out that your concern, if it isn’t concern trolling, ignores the fact that Obama himself several times alluded to all the muslim/terrorist killing he himself has accomplished in his 7 years. If you think there’s some enormous difference between Obama’s approach to the GWOT and Hillary’s you are just ignoring the reality. Both of them will/have/will again use weapons, soldiers, diplomacy, and legal and extra legal methods to push back on international terrorism. A word here or there means nothing.
Steve Crickmore
@Chris:
C. Isaac
@Corner Stone:
Well, so long as people aren’t imagining his pale, old man moobs dangling over top of the frayed (from overuse), sweat soaked, orange stained corset, then they should be ok when it comes to needing the brain bleach.
schrodinger's cat
@Patricia Kayden: Wasn’t the birther issue about that the same xenophobic anxieties too?
D58826
@catclub: My understanding (limited though it might be) is that the word ‘Islamist’ is used to refer to political Islam rather than the more general religious aspect of the faith. It is much more narrowly focused than just radical Islam. In addition there are Islamist’s who are not necessarily ‘radical’ or ‘jihadist’. It is important to use the correct wording to identify the enemy you are fighting. As to the charge that Obama doesn’t know who the enemy is, just ask Osama bin Laden or the 120 Daesh leaders that Obama referred to. Oh wait they can’t say anything as they are pushing up daises courtesy of Obama.
Corner Stone
@C. Isaac: I agree. Thank goodness no one is thinking about his dangling, pale man moobs.
We should be fine.
SiubhanDuinne
@muddy:
He is likely wearing a bulletproof vest.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@trollhattan: Been reading “Decline and Fall of the Third Reich”. Oddly enough, this is word-for-word what Germany’s ruling class and armed forces told themselves right up until the moment Hitler dissolved the Reichstag.
He killed most of them directly afterwards. Dude knew how to work the system.
Immanentize
@D58826: Just to lighten things up a bit — Johnathan Winter, yes the funny man guy, was actually a great stand-up in his early career. One of my favorite jokes of his was: “I’m not really a Jew, I’m Jewish.”
Archon
@Patricia Kayden:
Blacks and Jews know enough history to realize that any “out group” list will eventually have their name on it.
Actually, Bob IS My Uncle
@Joyce H:
I’ve done it online, so I know how they take it. They scream like murdered bunnies.
singfoom
A great speech. Watched the whole thing. Good to hear Obama take the talking point about magical phrases head on and address the real problem and call out scapegoating specific religions. Not that the knuckle dragging morons will hear a word of what he said.
He’s going to be missed when he steps down in January. I still have a dream that HRC will try to appoint him to SCOTUS. If the Senate is blue then, why not?
Poopyman
@Corner Stone:
Yes, and I just threw it in my mind’s eye.
sm*t cl*de
@C. Isaac:
Like muffins. Wrinkled albino muffins.
D58826
The Bishop of St. Pete’s Fla has called out all religions, including his own, as being complicit in homophobia. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bishop-homophobia-orlando-shooting_us_576024d7e4b0e4fe5143c44c
Steve Crickmore
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/14/admit-it-these-terrorists-are-muslims.html
FlipYrWhig
@catclub:
I think that was why there was that story the other day about how he was intent on contesting New York: it gives a ready excuse for why he’ll be staying closer to home than a typical candidate would, not because he’s a lazy slug who only wants to shuttle between New York and Florida but because he’s got YUGE PLANS TO CHANGE THE GAME, BELIEVE ME, THE BEST.
SFAW
@Actually, Bob IS My Uncle:
I don’t really want to know how you know that.
D58826
@Actually, Bob IS My Uncle: I know Sully isn’t a particular favorite here but he used to refer to them as ‘Christianists’ playing off the term Islamist.
Cat48
@D58826: He was giving a speech about an hour ago that included all his demands. Same shit, different day. I have a speech–You lost!
Bailey
@aimai:
And yet a word here or there apparently has meant something to both the Bush and the Obama administrations. Question is, do we agree with how Obama has labeled and pursued terrorists or do we think he’s just been playing some silly semantic game? I tend to think that he (and Bush, of all people) actually had this issue correct. While I don’t necessarily think that HRC will take terrorism any less seriously or pursue things differently per se, she’s basically just thrown the Prez under the bus and agreed that he was playing games with semantics. All to throw Trump off his game, even though Trump’s game was ridiculous and really not even worth commenting on. And even when Obama did comment on Trump’s silly “call it this” requests he didn’t give into saying that all of Islam should be considered “radical” which is what the phrase “radical Islam / radical Islamists” suggests. This can’t really be had both ways.
jl
Similar tragedy might have happened in LA except he got nabbed in time because of alert neighbors and good police work. The suspect is a native born white man who seems nice. I see on TPM blog that the Orlando shooter may have had serious sexual identity issues (some reports that he was a long time regular of the LGBT club he shot up, as a lonely maladjusted customer, not casing it), which if true, is evidence that personal problems played very important role, as well as politically motivated terrorism. Promising young singer gets gunned down because she was reckless enough to hold a public meet-up with her fans. Gunman hostage situation in a TX Walmart.
So, I guess a silver lining to this mess is the total BS of the bigots and reactionaries and demagogues is refuted almost as soon as they open their mouths. Also heard on news this morning that Trump is losing a lot of support from moderate middle aged white guys, who maybe are tuning into the details of what Trump is up to now that primaries are over, and deciding they want off the crazy boat.
SFAW
@Poopyman:
Won’t be enough — you also need a sharp-stick chaser, to shove into your mind’s eye.
Don’t ask how I know this.
hw3
Umm… Betty, please please buy this?
Congratulations, your domain is available!
ComboverCaligula.com
Betty Cracker
@Bailey:
Wrong. She just gave a speech on it. Take a look.
Hoodie
@CONGRATULATIONS!: What Trump knows is that their lizard brains are manipulable, that they care about power more than self-preservation and they’re not conscious of their own racism, sexism, etc., and what a weakness that represents. It is time to go full Godwin on Trump. I want the GOP to get rid of him before he metastasizes. Even if that means Romney or Kasich becomes the nominee and somehow beats HRC. You have to take the shot while it’s there, before he adapts and finds ways to cover. I suspect that Obama and Clinton get that, which is why they’re going after him. In the long run, it will also likely be good politics for 2016, because the GOP will have to go through a lengthy treatment to rid themselves of the Trump infection. It’s been festering for a long time, and dumping Trump is just lancing the boil. The pus will take a while to drain.
D58826
@jl: Also reporting that his wife knew what he planned and drove him around as he scouted out potential targets. She could well be in a world of hurt.
Gelfling545
@schrodinger’s cat: Well, we wouldn’t have this problem if Trump’s family hadn’t been allowed to immigrate either.
KS in MA
@LAO: I wouldn’t wish it on him, though.
trollhattan
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
Fascinating Huffpo [I know…] post mortem interview with Bush, Cruz and Rubio’s campaign managers, and while they’re pretty insightful on how Trump pulled it off, Cruz’s manager is exactly who you’d expect.
That never gets old. Also, too, manages to sneak in cracks about crooked Clintons.
Nevertheless, worth a read.
aimai
@Bailey: No she hasn’t. Stop totalizing like a shrieking child.
dogwood
@aimai:
Yesterday there were complaints that Hillary quoted the pledge and actually said “one nation, under God . . “. For 7 1/2 years I’ve read countless threads where people bitch and moan that Obama isn’t “saying it right”. It’s tedious, and serves no purpose in the long run.
D58826
Chuckles Todd is saying that every time Obama and ‘old little hands’ have gone at it Trump has lost. I think Obama’s attitude was a visual representation of revenge is best served cold. It was cold anger that Obama felt. Obama is also giving the GOP a choice – repudiate your own nominee or hang with him.
jl
@D58826: Looks bad for her, and I felt quite pissed about her lack of action. But then I remembered the Orlando shooter has a history of severe domestic abuse. So, need to wait for the results of a full investigation. I’m not sure that would completely excuse what she did and did not do, but we don’t know her full story yet.
Listening to end of Obama’s statement right now. It is very good. Obama is so solid. I disagree with him quite a bit on some areas of policy, but, man, is he solid. He’ll go down as top ten or fifteen prez. So, we will enjoy watching the racists’ heads explode on a regular basis after he leaves office, since he will have left such an important legacy.
Emma
@Bailey: Jesus. DId you actually listen/read the speech?
Ian
@Major Major Major Major:
If we had a true nationally elected parliament, not state based districts, it would still have been speaker Pelosi. We win a majority of the voters, just not the districts.
D58826
@jl: The woman talking about the abuse was the ex wife. Whither the current wife is also being abused hasn’t been reported. It might be exculpatory if charges are filed.
Uncle Cosmo
@Corner Stone: Cheney-stoked breathing?
@zmulls: “Stumpfingers”? Stumpy Trump? Or just “Stumpy”?
Slightly o/t but I wonder why Sanders’ endemic digit-wagging never earned him the nickname “Scoldfinger”? The parody song almost writes itself:
(FTR that took all of 45 seconds from the initial epithet.)
Gravenstone
@opiejeanne: Doctor Who reference?
Ian
@schrodinger’s cat:
Axotl wombs perhaps?
jl
@Bailey: I can’t figure out your point. Calling the violent group of radical political jihadists ‘Radical Islam’ is offensive to too many people and is counterproductive.Just like deciding to use the term ‘Radical Christianity; or Radical Hinduism’ or “Radical Judaism’ or ‘Radical Buddhism’ because there are individuals and groups claiming to belong to all of those religions who do and believe repellent evil things.
And there are a number of branches of Islam that could be called ‘radical’, some of which we want to encourage, like liberal reformist Islamic theologians, and we want to encourage that kind of ‘Radical Islam’. So the term is also inaccurate and confusing.
So, Obama and experts who understand the problem well choose not to use it on a regular basis. I don’t see any ‘can’t have it both ways’ about those two simple points.
Major Major Major Major
@Ian: Not in 2010 we didn’t.
jl
@D58826: Yes, thanks for clarification. I should have said the shooter has a history of severe domestic abuse. But the more news that comes out about how sadly messed up this guy was, I think good chance severe domestic abuse problems continued. But, we need to wait to see what a full investigation shows.
O. Felix Culpa
@schrodinger’s cat:“Wasn’t the birther issue about that the same xenophobic anxieties too?”
D58826
John Bolton has said he will be proud to serve ‘old little hands’ in any capacity. Imagine the dream ticket – ‘old little hands/walrus. The mind boggles.
Miss Bianca
@srv:
“We originally created HUAC to go after Nazis. Then we discovered that the Nazis were our friends and so we used it to go after Communists. Most of whom were not Communists. Just people we didn”t like. Wait, what – what am I saying? Oh, right – radical Islamists. That’s right. We need a new HUAC for them. ”
@Uncle Cosmo: Pray continue, nuncle!
D58826
@jl: yep. Pete Wilson just finished saying that the feds are still trying to sort her story out and charges, if any, are days away.
Iowa Old Lady
@D58826: The same thing will happen with Trump vs Clinton. The R primary opponents were hapless, but neither Clinton nor Obama is.
FlipYrWhig
@Bailey:
Not really, because the “ism” suffix is clarifying: Islam is a worldwide religious community; IslamISM is a political philosophy. (Think of the difference between “nation” and “nationalism,” or “sex” and “sexism.”) The terms to be careful with are “Islam,” “Islamic,” and “Muslim.”
rikyrah
@Archon:
You ain’t never lied on that one.
Black people ‘ seem’ to take up everyone else’s cause, because..
in this history of the country known as America..
we know what happens to OTHERS…..
ALWAYS winds up at our door.
part of our pragmatism.
O. Felix Culpa
@Miss Bianca:
Heh. My thoughts exactly. Because the first HUAC ended up so well.
Brachiator
@D58826:
I am the eggman
They are the eggmen
I am the walrus
Goo goo g’ joob
schrodinger's cat
@O. Felix Culpa: The xenophobia is especially pronounced when the immigrants are not from Europe. So racism may well be the driver of their xenophobia because I have never heard the nativists complain about people from Russia or Ireland overstaying their visas.
Miss Bianca
@O. Felix Culpa: it is clear that that was snark, right? (Just checking).
Mnemosyne
@Miss Bianca:
I think of Ash trying to fake his way through the magic words in “Army of Darkness” and being outraged that it doesn’t work.
O. Felix Culpa
@schrodinger’s cat: Both elements of racism and xenophobia are strong in this country, alas. My comments were directed more specifically to the case of whether Obama was met the Constitution’s requirements for presidency via the challenge to his natural born citizenship.
Back in the days of Irish immigration due to the potato famine, they were treated with as much hostility and racism as any other group. Hence signs like “No dogs or Irish need apply.” Happened to virtually every successive wave of immigrants that came here. I wish we could say we were past that.
Chris
@Miss Bianca:
There are two interesting little tidbits that no discussion of HUAC is complete without.
One, that one of its founding members was in fact later discovered to have been in the pay of the NKVD: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Dickstein_(congressman). That’s right: “The Manchurian Candidate” was, inadvertently, real.
Two, this little gem: “After all, the KKK is an old American institution” – Congressman John Rankin, 1946, explaining why HUAC declined to go after the Ku Klux Klan. Expect that to get a reboot in re the militia movement if Gingrich ever gets his new HUAC.
O. Felix Culpa
@Miss Bianca: Weird. My first response to you got eated.
Yes, it was snark. It’s mindboggling that anyone, even the evil Newt, could bring up HUAC in an even remotely positive light. Sorry that I wasn’t clear. :)
schrodinger's cat
@O. Felix Culpa: Your point is well taken, I have read a screed by none other than Benjamin Franklin about the odious German immigrants who drank too much. I was referring to the Irish and Russian visa overstays in the 2016. Actually all the obsession seems to be on the immigrants coming across the southern border not people who are no longer in status.
Mnemosyne
@jl:
What his first wife reported was so classic that I find it unlikely that he didn’t repeat the behavior with wife #2, especially given his other reported mental health issues.
Someone was asking a question yesterday that I think should be amplified: haven’t the majority of the men implicated in these mass shootings had a history of domestic abuse charges? The high school/college age guys might not, but it seems to be the case for the ones who are over 30.
Miss Bianca
@Mnemosyne: Oh, you’ve got me laughing so hard now. That’s my favorite part next to “All right you primitive screwheads, listen up…”!
Patricia Kayden
@Bailey: Using the phrase is meaningless so I would be interested in Secretary Clinton’s thinking. Guess it doesn’t matter since the issue at stake is whether Trump and Rightwingers are correct in pushing for a ban on all Muslims for the actions of a few when no such ban is ever suggested when Christians engage in mass violence.
Juju
@Mnemosyne: I thought maybe it was like saying Beetleguice three times.
moonbat
@Uncle Cosmo: Thanks for the belly laugh!
Citizen Alan
@Mnemosyne:
Fred Clark at Slacktivist has talked for years about the apparent belief on the part of fundie Christians that John 3:16 (the Believer’s Prayer) is essentially a magical incantation that can bind God to your service so that He HAS to let you into Heaven. Even though God is omnipotent, he can’t go back on his word and send Christians to Hell, no matter how evil they are, if they’ve said the Magic Words.
Bailey
@aimai:
I have to say that you are a poster that I’ve been aware with for years and have admired your ability to reason and argue. It’s quite disappointing to find you’ve been reduced to someone who just throws insults at those who have a different opinion or understanding than you.
Citizen Alan
@different-church-lady:
I like to hold out hope that he’d have been impeached if he’d had a third term.
Citizen Alan
@schrodinger’s cat:
I am old enough to remember when the Mujhedeen were the heroic allies who saved James Bond’s ass in “Living Daylights.” I vaguely recall that Reagan actually had leaders of the Mujhedeen visit the White House when they were still “freedom fighters.”
Bailey
@Emma:
Jesus. Yes. Jesus, I’ve even managed to track HRC’s changing use of terms involving “radical” “islamism” “jihadism” and so on over the course of the campaign. In December after San Bernadino, she refused the term “radical Islam” because it sounds too much like fighting an entire religion—which it does. Now after Orlando (and Trump as confirmed nominee) she’s happy to use the phrase “radical Islamist” which, you know, still sounds too much like fighting an entire religion.
HRC is saying that “radical jihadism” and “radical Islamist” are interchangeable. They haven’t been used that way in the past by the Prez, or even Clinton herself, but now she’s fine with using it. The Prez made a strong and brilliant argument whereas HRC has somewhat deviated from that. Question is why? She makes argument that the phrases are meaningless but if that is now her stance, is she saying that every action and strategy pursued by Bush/Obama in this realm was incorrect?
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/hillary-clinton-radical-islam-224255
schrodinger's cat
@Citizen Alan: I am not into James Bond movies. I was thinking of Charlie Wilson’s war.
Scamp Dog
@Uncle Cosmo: Such an old finger!
Haven’t come up with any full verses yet, though…
Troublesome Carp fka Geeno
@C. Isaac: Actually, as long as you’re not asking me to imagine a “Melania’s eye view” during sex with him, …. (the remainder of your statement).
PatrickG
@Bailey:
I’m amazed that you can infer a rejection of two decades of policy and public relations stances based on one speech (Obama and Bush!). Say what you will about Radical Semanticism, at least it’s an ethos!
This might be the worst use of “thrown under the bus” I’ve ever seen. Congratulations.
Edited to add my semantic thoughts:
Obama: I won’t use this term because people will construe it as an attack on Muslims as a group.
Clinton: I don’t give a fuck about using the term. I care about people attacking Muslims as a group.
Trump: Muslims are evil.
AxelFoley
@Archon:
Yup.
AxelFoley
@jl:
Name 10 or 14 better than him.
We really haven’t had that many great presidents, so you’re selling Obama damn short.