Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Imperialist aggressors must be defeated, or the whole world loses.

Putin dreamed of ending NATO, and now it’s Finnish-ed.

Wake up. Grow up. Get in the fight.

T R E 4 5 O N

The gop is a fucking disgrace.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

I’d try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

Israel is using food as a weapon of war. Unforgivable.

It looks like winning debates is a black job!

We know you aren’t a Democrat but since you seem confused let me help you.

He really is that stupid.

If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.

… gradually, and then suddenly.

Accountability, motherfuckers.

I conferred with the team and they all agree – still not tired of winning!

It’s all just conspiracy shit beamed down from the mothership.

But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.

Don’t expect peaches from an apple tree.

Someone should tell Republicans that violence is the last refuge of the incompetent, or possibly the first.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2016 / Open Thread: Donald Trump, “Tippy Top Nuclear”

Open Thread: Donald Trump, “Tippy Top Nuclear”

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Trump somehow failed to add: And his fingers, lovely, so long — there’s no complaints there, folks, let me tell you.

Not an exaggeration; ever since Trump hired Paul Manafort as his campaign manager, there’s been discussion of Manafort’s long history lobbying for Putin (and a squadron of other dictators & authoritarians).

What Trump and Putin really have in common is that they’re both appealing to their separate national revanchists: the scared, scarred, economically threatened, badly educated & ill informed citizens who don’t care how much they risk personally by supporting Dear Leader as long as “those people” get punished.

Jared Yates Sexton’s long series of tweets, A Trump Rally in Greensboro “Anger in here is palpable” (sequenced, storified, here) has been getting a lot of well-deserved attention. That’s the same rally where Trump talked about Putin’s “tippy-top nuclear”…

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179Comments

  2. 2.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Looks like Angus King joined the filibuster? DIdn’t he vote against the Manchin-Casey (I think it was?) bill a couple of years ago?

  4. 4.

    redshirt

    When is Obama obligated to start briefing Trump? After the convention? Is he really obligated? Could there be security reasons he doesn’t brief him?

    I’m fairly certain Trump will use any info he gets against Obama and the USA, on behalf of Russia et al.

  5. 5.

    Corner Stone

    Who the hell runs for president on the message that the country is about to not survive any longer?

  13. 13.

    japa21

    @redshirt: Same question I had. If Trump did do that, the long awaited indictments of a candidate will finally take place, but it wouldn’t be Clinton.

  14. 14.

    bago

    Conversely, if the proposed terrorist watch list legislation gets passed, it will only be because the terrorist watch list disproportionally affects “those people”.

    Such is the history of gun control legislation in America.

  16. 16.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    Trump was really down in the dumps today during his daily public psych session:

    Trump shared a story about a friend with a terminal illness who was expected to live one more month and then outlived that life expectancy.

    “He’s tough as hell,” Trump said, going on to say that he thought his friend was similar to the United States, which was having “the blood sucked out of us.”

    “It’s amazing that our country can continue to survive, but you know? Eventually it’s not going to survive. Just so you understand. Eventually it’s not. This guy’s an amazing guy. Our country is an amazing country. It’s amazing that our country could be abused so badly and not surv—,” Trump said, trailing off before shouting, “It’s just amazing!”

    “And continue to survive,” he continued. “But it’s not going to continue to survive like this. It can’t. It’s impossible.”

    Of course what he is symbolizing here is the state of his campaign. Yesterday’s poll numbers was like a catastrophic test result. Top that off with morbid vital signs (no money, can’t fund raise, no campaign apparatus, no help) and you get Trump rambling projections.

    He’s seen this before. This probably how he felt when his c*sinos went bankrupt and when his highly leverage real estate collapsed. He knows winter is coming.

  17. 17.

    JPL

    @Corner Stone: Who the hell runs wanting a ballroom at the White House. In fact he wanted to build a ballroom and the White House under Obama, and the administration never called him back. Plus Trump doesn’t like State Dinners and the tent the Obama’s used was a bad tent, he knows tents and would only use good tents.
    I’m serious, that was part of his speech at the Fox Theater today.

  18. 18.

    redshirt

    I have an already prepared compound in Canada should the worst of the worst happens in November. All BJ’ers welcomed (except Corner Stone).

    Sleeps 10, lots and lots of space for tents.

  19. 19.

    Iowa Old Lady

    @redshirt: After the conventions. I believe the security briefings are customary rather than obligatory. Obama would have discretion about how much to share. He’s balancing off what’s dangerous to reveal to Trump with what Clinton will need to know to be an effective president from day 1, but I’ve read that Clinton has a team of her own gathering security information from public sources.

  21. 21.

    dmsilev

    One good bit of news is that the GOP collective establishment is by and large either pretending that Trump doesn’t exist or is taking potshots at him whenever he says something particularly egregious (i.e. weekly, soon to be daily). Attacks from Democrats can be shrugged off as the normal partisanship, but when he says something and takes fire from both sides, that signals to the vast mushy middle (and, importantly, to the press) that this is bad. In other words, it makes attacks on him more effective and lasting.

    Let’s hope that’s enough.

  24. 24.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @redshirt:

    It’s just a guess, mind you, but I think Hillary’s briefings are likely to be considerably more comprehensive than Drumpf’s. I would give him only the bare minimum of sensitive information.

    In fact, no lie, if I were preparing the briefings, I would deliberately put in something shocking, outrageous, scary — and completely false — just to see how long it would take Trump to go public with it in a rally or speech or MTP interview. You know he would.

  25. 25.

    Gvg

    As I understand it there is no law on briefing at all, but at least in the nuclear era it has been convention to start briefing both ahead of time so if they win, they have time to learn and plan. It’s been talked about this time because of his campaign managers open ties to Russia that this time they may stall or give smaller amounts of info ahead of time. If he wins, of course, he’ll get the rest.
    I have myself been wondering if they should give some false info, or tempting info, to see if his campaign leaks ahead of time. Normally it might seem a dirty trick, but all he has to do is not leak…..I just don’t think he even gets the concept of must remain secret. And he is a fool for hiring someone who worked for Russia. That would bug even if he wasn’t setting off other alarms.

  27. 27.

    redshirt

    @Baud: Well, given that there will be a giant wall between Mexico and the US, it’s the only viable escape route that you could drive/hike to.

  29. 29.

    Anne Laurie

    @redshirt:

    When is Obama obligated to start briefing Trump?

    Adam is far better equipped to answer this, but: As I understand it, there’s no “obligation” for the sitting president to share information with his hopeful successors. It’s a tradition, one put into place after newly-elevated President Truman discovered how much FDR hadn’t bothered to share with him, solidified when Eisenhower wanted to keep both Kennedy and (his own vp) Nixon from making threats or promises that would undermine what the State Dept was already doing.

    In the past few months, foreign policy experts have written a great deal about the risks of Trump creating diplomatic mayhem — accidentally or on purpose — and I’m sure the professionals responsible for producing the ‘candidate updates’ have paid even more attention to every leak, gaffe, overstatement, and outright lie emerging from Lord Short Thumb’s campaign. (There’s even been some mischievous commentary that Trump and his handlers might be fed ‘targeted misinformation’ so that such leaks could be tracked, like putting dye in a toilet tank to gauge where the tubing needs replacement.)

  31. 31.

    redshirt

    @SiubhanDuinne: While I am no Trump fan, I wonder how giving Clinton a different, fuller briefing then Trump is an anyway fair. I’d think Clinton would also have to get the same level of briefing that Trump gets.

    Otherwise, the next time there’s a Republican President (FSM forbid!), the Dem will get nothing and the Repuke everything.

  35. 35.

    Citizen_X

    @Corner Stone:

    Who the hell runs for president on the message that the country is about to not survive any longer?

    The guy who intends to make a mint selling off parts of it?

  36. 36.

    dogwood

    @redshirt:
    I think both candidates get security briefings after they formally accept the nomination. They don’t get what the President gets, however. When a candidate becomes president-elect he/she starts getting more. I’m not sure if this is mandated by law, or an executive tradition. Dan Senor has tweeted that the Obama administration is going to have to do everything possible to limit what Trump sees.

  37. 37.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    I hurt myself today,
    To see if I still feel.
    I focus on the pain.
    The only thing that’s real.

    The needle tears a hole,
    The old familiar sting.
    Try to kill it all away,
    But I remember everything.

    What have I become,
    My sweetest friend?
    Everyone I know,
    Goes away in the end.

    You could have it all,
    My empire of dirt.
    I will let you down.
    I will make you hurt.

    I wear this crown of shit,
    Upon my liar’s chair,
    Full of broken thoughts.
    I cannot repair.

    Sounds like Trump as been listening to a lof of Trent Reznor

  38. 38.

    WaterGirl

    i can only take so much Trump, and this made me feel better:

    The English poet who inspired Lin-Manuel Miranda’s Tonys speech – and why it’s a literary masterstroke

    …But the poem is also, as you might expect from such a gifted writer as Miranda, a dazzlingly clever piece of writing.

    It isn’t just any sonnet. Most sonnets, written by poets from Shakespeare to Wordsworth and beyond, are identifiable by their structure of 14 lines and a regular rhythm and rhyme scheme. This allows the poet a controlled structure in which to explore otherwise unruly and complex ideas about love and personal emotion.

    But Miranda’s sonnet is 16 lines long, and has some moments of unconventional rhythm. What does that tell us? The best-known writer of the 16-line sonnet is probably the Victorian writer George Meredith, who wrote a sequence of them titled ‘Modern Love’, exploring his own disastrous marriage and expressing a sentiment that love in his time had become corrupted and corrosive.

    Miranda adopts Meredith’s form and uses it to talk about his own good marriage, and about love as a positive and unbeatable force. To take a form that had been associated with a poet claiming love is rotten, only to turn it around to use it as a poem about the healing power of love in the face of darkness, is elegant, beautiful and extremely powerful.

    Miranda’s poem reaches a climax with the penultimate couplet (which would have been the final couplet in a more conventional 14-line sonnet):

    And love is love is love is love is love is love is love is love;

    Cannot be killed or swept aside.

    These two lines show mastery of the form from Miranda. The other lines in the sonnet have five stressed syllables each and are written in iambic pentameter, the meter most famously used by Shakespeare. But in the line “And love is love…” there are three extra syllables.

    …

    It shows one eye towards Miranda’s extensive knowledge of literary tradition and history, and one eye on the future. It’s a call for love in defiance of hate and fear, and it’s a tribute to Miranda’s own overwhelming personal experience of love.

  39. 39.

    bluehill

    What is the saying? History doesn’t repeat but it rhymes? As we have noticed, Trump seems to continue to mimic the actions of past authoritarians. Nationalist rhetoric, scapegoating certain groups, willingness to limit freedom of the press, increasing calls to stifle dissent through violence and there are probably other things that I’ve missed.

    The thing that I find concerning is that the growing acceptance of these actions that are clearly unconstitutional (yes ironic coming for the party that markets itself as strict constitutionalists) and start to lead us down the proverbial slippery slope. This incrementalism is insidious and is reinforced by rationalizations from the repub leaders.

    Hate to go all Godwin, but found this excerpt from ‘They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45’ by Milton Mayer.

    But Then It Was Too Late

    “What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could not understand it, it could not be released because of national security. And their sense of identification with Hitler, their trust in him, made it easier to widen this gap and reassured those who would otherwise have worried about it.

    “This separation of government from people, this widening of the gap, took place so gradually and so insensibly, each step disguised (perhaps not even intentionally) as a temporary emergency measure or associated with true patriotic allegiance or with real social purposes. And all the crises and reforms (real reforms, too) so occupied the people that they did not see the slow motion underneath, of the whole process of government growing remoter and remoter…

    You can see how easy it was, then, not to think about fundamental things. One had no time.” “Those,” I said, “are the words of my friend the baker. ‘One had no time to think. There was so much going on.’”

    “Your friend the baker was right,” said my colleague. “The dictatorship, and the whole process of its coming into being, was above all diverting. It provided an excuse not to think for people who did not want to think anyway. I do not speak of your ‘little men,’ your baker and so on; I speak of my colleagues and myself, learned men, mind you. Most of us did not want to think about fundamental things and never had. There was no need to. Nazism gave us some dreadful, fundamental things to think about—we were decent people—and kept us so busy with continuous changes and ‘crises’ and so fascinated, yes, fascinated, by the machinations of the ‘national enemies,’ without and within, that we had no time to think about these dreadful things that were growing, little by little, all around us. Unconsciously, I suppose, we were grateful. Who wants to think?

    “To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it—please try to believe me—unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, ‘regretted,’ that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these ‘little measures’ that no ‘patriotic German’ could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head.

    “How is this to be avoided, among ordinary men, even highly educated ordinary men? Frankly, I do not know. I do not see, even now. Many, many times since it all happened I have pondered that pair of great maxims, Principiis obsta and Finem respice—‘Resist the beginnings’ and ‘Consider the end.’ But one must foresee the end in order to resist, or even see, the beginnings. One must foresee the end clearly and certainly and how is this to be done, by ordinary men or even by extraordinary men? Things might have. And everyone counts on that might.

    “Your ‘little men,’ your Nazi friends, were not against National Socialism in principle. Men like me, who were, are the greater offenders, not because we knew better (that would be too much to say) but because we sensed better. Pastor Niemöller spoke for the thousands and thousands of men like me when he spoke (too modestly of himself) and said that, when the Nazis attacked the Communists, he was a little uneasy, but, after all, he was not a Communist, and so he did nothing; and then they attacked the Socialists, and he was a little uneasier, but, still, he was not a Socialist, and he did nothing; and then the schools, the press, the Jews, and so on, and he was always uneasier, but still he did nothing. And then they attacked the Church, and he was a Churchman, and he did something—but then it was too late.”

  40. 40.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Jared Yates Sexton’s long series of tweets, A Trump Rally in Greensboro “Anger in here is palpable” (sequenced, storified, here) has been getting a lot of well-deserved attention.

    My god, that makes for some dispiriting reading.

  41. 41.

    The Dangerman

    @redshirt:

    Well, given that there will be a giant wall between Mexico and the US, it’s the only viable escape route…

    Won’t there be a giant wall at the Canadian border, too (built by Canada to keep US citizens out of their lovely country)?

  42. 42.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @redshirt:

    You’re probably right, but I’m fed up with this imbecile and don’t really care about “fair” right now.

  43. 43.

    Gin & Tonic

    Just to keep balance, Tad Devine (Bernie’s campaign manager) worked with Paul Manafort to elect the thug Viktor Yanukovych president of Ukraine.

  44. 44.

    Chyron HR

    Otherwise, the next time there’s a Republican President (FSM forbid!), the Dem will get nothing and the Repuke everything.

    The GOP has already decided that Democratic presidents don’t get to make Supreme Court appointments and got a pass on it, why would they give security briefings to a mere candidate?

  46. 46.

    Kropadope

    Trump: “The world is changing rapidly…and we’re going to stop it.”

    What was that called when the world stopped changing? Oh, yeah, the Dark Ages.

  47. 47.

    hellslittlestangel

    Under President Trump, we’ll have the best nukes. Beautiful nukes, frankly.

  49. 49.

    Felonius Monk

    @Corner Stone:

    Who the hell runs for president on the message that the country is about to not survive any longer?

    Achtung, der TrumpenFarter! Soon to be President For Life of South Trumpenstein (a small padded room at St. Elizabeth’s in DC).

  50. 50.

    Baud

    @srv: Freddie has always been a joke but he soon will earn the lifelong label of fascist sympathizer.

  51. 51.

    schrodinger's cat

    @Baud: Say what you will about Modi, as politician he has a much better instinct for survival. He has been active in politics for 25+ years and he is much less demented than Trump.

    We should be fine. I know people who know the right people. Plus Goa has been popular with western tourists since forever so no will gawk, people are chill. In India each state is like its own country. Maharashtra and Goa is my peeps. I am not suggesting we go to Gujarat (Modi’s home state : too vegetarian, too fusty and straight laced)

    This is what it looks like this.

  52. 52.

    Anne Laurie

    @redshirt:

    While I am no Trump fan, I wonder how giving Clinton a different, fuller briefing then Trump is an anyway fair. I’d think Clinton would also have to get the same level of briefing that Trump gets.

    The (semi) serious discussion about ‘customized’ briefings has been more along the line that former Secretary of State Clinton can make much more of a bare-bones wink&nod discussion about any given topic than former reality tv star Trump could manage — even assuming his handlers could get him to pay attention past the large-type headers on the summary sheet.

    For example, Clinton would understand that “Leader for Life Xtravanga of the newly separated nation of Follice has reiterated his determination to achieve domination of the International Space Station” meant “another shoeless dictator makes mouth noises to rally his half-starved subjects” (even assuming there was such a place as Follice) — while Trump would be all too likely to announce at his next rally that the Follicians were threatening America’s space supremacy, again, and while the Democrats might be too feckless to defend our Space Station, once he’s in the Oval Office he will bomb Follice until the rubble bounces, yes he will!

    (And if the media, those traitors, point out there is no such place as Follice, he will angrily demand to know why those losers are allowed to spread their lies, he’s gonna sue them so bigly!)

  53. 53.

    WaterGirl

    @gogol’s wife: I did see that! Well-deserved honor for LMM, amazing opportunity for the next LMM.

    I was blown away at the Tony’s by how passionate he is. It gives me hope.

  55. 55.

    cokane

    say what you want about McCain and Romney, even W, Trump has got to be the dumbest nominee I’ve ever seen, at least based on his utterances.

  57. 57.

    Smiling Mortician

    @Emma:

    Real life just skated past parody and blew a fart at it as it went.

    I am still larfing at this.

  58. 58.

    andy

    This is kind of hilarious. Trump is finally on the RNC website, but the newest entry was posted back on the 10th- Trumps “Diversity Committee” has been invited to visit RNC headquarters. The one before that was on the 9th, where visitors to the site were invited to sign Trump’s birthday card.

    Everybody clap! Good times, good times…

  59. 59.

    Anne Laurie

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Just to keep balance, Tad Devine (Bernie’s campaign manager) worked with Paul Manafort to elect the thug Viktor Yanukovych president of Ukraine.

    Fortunately, Tad Devine is very very unlikely to be given access to the briefings shared with Hillary Clinton… and I assume it’s too late in the cycle/his fees are too high for Trump to hire him now.

  60. 60.

    WaterGirl

    @Baud: Face/palm. Head/desk. Power can do ugly things to (formerly) good people. Bernie is a huge disappointment. To me, it seems like he got “this close” and just can’t let it go. So sad. Someone who cares for him should be having some quiet conversations with Bernie, but that’s obviously not happening.

  61. 61.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Hal: that’s why you have all those news stories about the citizen-sheriffs (do they have a name for themselves?) who are dropping ‘bad guys’ like… the characters in whatever video game allows them to act out this fantasy, and hopefully those are the only kills they’ll ever make.

  65. 65.

    JPL

    I’m streaming CSPAN and I have to admit that I miss not having cable. I don’t bring my computer to bed with me, but tonight I might..

    @Baud: I saw that earlier. At least he isn’t joining the Trump campaign yet.

  66. 66.

    ? Martin

    @redshirt:

    While I am no Trump fan, I wonder how giving Clinton a different, fuller briefing then Trump is an anyway fair. I’d think Clinton would also have to get the same level of briefing that Trump gets.

    I don’t think Obama would have any problem with the argument that ‘Trump cannot be trusted with national secrets, while Clinton has proven that she can be’.

    Fairness has no role in national security.

  71. 71.

    dogwood

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    It appears that the sharing of security briefings with candidates has never been a controversial issue for democrats or republicans. Questions of fairness have never come up. And why would any president withohold info from a candidate of the other party? They don’t talk about those briefings on the stump. But this is new territory. We’ve never had a candidate like Trump. He’ll be tweeting the content daily and making up shit. He has no respect for the office of the president, no respect for the American people, and absolutely no impulse control. Combine this with his intellectual inadequacy and his narcissism and you’ve got a recipe for disaster.

  72. 72.

    Smiling Mortician

    @WaterGirl: Agree that Miranda’s poem is awesome, but whoever wrote the article makes a few weird mistakes, not least of which is that the “Love is love” has three extra iambs (six extra syllables) — not three extra syllables.

    /Sorry, I teach Shakespeare [hangs head]

  92. 92.

    NotMax

    @dogwood

    Nothing in law requiring it, it’s been tradition since the Eisenhower years.

    Candidates/nominees releasing tax returns has been traditional since not quite that long ago – as Trump is purposefully not following that tradition, no reason Obama should follow the one about briefings. (Not to equate the two as being of equal import.)

  93. 93.

    Schlemazel Khan

    @efgoldman:
    I would have replied
    “OH NOES!!1 If we have lost Fred Da Bore we have lost . . . absolutely nothing of value or any opinion that matters

    But, like you didn’t want to feed the troll

  95. 95.

    SFAW

    @Baud:

    Freddie has always been a joke but he soon will earn the lifelong label of fascist sympathizer.

    Ah, but at least Fredi will not soil his hands by supporting a Centrist Democrat. [Note: The words “Centrist Democrat” should be accompanied by scary music, plus someone half-whispering “boogity-boogity-boogity-boogity-boogity-boogity-boogity-boogity-boogity-boogity” in the background.]

  99. 99.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @schrodinger’s cat: I had a moose stick its head into my tent while I was backpacking on Isle Royale. I was seven. My dad and I stayed very, very still. The moose left. The end.

  101. 101.

    schrodinger's cat

    BTW did anyone see Thomas Frank on the Snooze Hour. I caught the tail end of his interview. Smug and annoying and critical of the Democrats. What’s his problem? Hillary and Obama refuse to hire him or something.

  106. 106.

    Schlemazel Khan

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    No realli! She was Karving her initials on the møøse with the sharpened end of an interspace tøøthbrush given her by Svenge – her brother-in-law – an Oslo dentist and star of many Norwegian møvies: “The Høt Hands of an Oslo Dentist”, “Fillings of Passion”, “The Huge Mølars of Horst Nordfink”

  119. 119.

    NotMax

    @schrodinger’s cat

    Bermuda or the Bahamas much more convenient so far as travel goes. ;)

    Trivia: Hawaii has been a state of the U.S. for longer than Goa has been a state of India.

  123. 123.

    scav

    @schrodinger’s cat: Doesn’t seem kind, let alone benevolent or protective first to hunt something so loyal and orderly and then serve it up. Those elk-moose rivalries must be getting viscious.

  125. 125.

    Elie

    I aint going nowhere — certainly not vacating what me and my family fought for our freedom… not the easy stuff you white folks give up on apparently. Its surprising that you walk away so easily from what your parents and grandparent and their parents fought for, and made their way through. Why do liberals/progressives give up so easily? I aint going nowhere…. But I will read your comments from your “safe” haven elsewhere… Tell me, what WOULD you actually fight for?

  127. 127.

    Kropadope

    @redshirt: I understand that Maine severely restricts moose hunting, I bet it’s hard for a restaurant to offer moose, even seasonally.

  128. 128.

    redshirt

    @schrodinger’s cat: I’ve never had either so I’ll trust you on that.

    The moose lottery in Maine is a big deal but I doubt it’s about the quality of the meat, and rather about the relatively easy chance to shoot a small elephant like creature.

  129. 129.

    Schlemazel Khan

    @Elie:
    Yeah, if we don’t win at the ballot box we can win at the bullet box. Its only fair to say that.

  130. 130.

    redshirt

    @Elie: I am entirely joking about moving the Canada. But then, if I lived in a country as described in “The Handmaid’s Tale”, I’m not sure I wouldn’t flee either. Better than dying, right?

  133. 133.

    Ken

    @redshirt:

    Could there be security reasons he doesn’t brief him?

    You’ve heard Trump speak, right? Anything that goes in won’t come out in any recognizable form. It’s worse than Palin trying to describe Paul Revere’s ride.

  134. 134.

    p.a.

    Frak you people I don’t want to live in a country behind in its tippy-tops! The US of A should always be toppy-tops: David Barton says that’s in the Constitution. Or the Mayflower Compact.

  136. 136.

    Elie

    @Schlemazel Khan:

    Not bullets… I do not mean bullets at all — but fight for in organize — stand together as has been done in many many countries. Could we be killed or hurt or imprisoned? Yes. Please think of this differently…

  137. 137.

    Emma

    @Elie: I think you’re missing the whistling-past-the-graveyard-at-Halloween aspect. It’s a silly game. Most of us will stay where we are.

  138. 138.

    Anne Laurie

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    I have never seen a moose IRL.

    IMO, you haven’t missed much. The only thing that photos can’t tell you is how large & weirdly spindly they are. It has been said that horses are built ‘like a pickle on four toothpicks’, but moose are even heavier in body & longer of legs. The (bad) physics are why they’re so dangerous as highway impediments. (European elk are physically identical to North American moose, and Scandinavian cars are ‘built for safety’ because elk are just as liable as moose to wander onto twisty poor-light roadways.) Like gnus, they seem to have been assembled from leftover parts at the end of the day… by a team that no longer cared.

  139. 139.

    Elie

    @efgoldman:

    Ok got it. I take people at their word. They say they are going somewhere else and I accept what they say. I don’t have your fine ability to tell the “real” intended truth from what you REALLY mean, so apologies as necessary…

  140. 140.

    scav

    @Elie: Well, sometimes it’s just a question of choosing the terrain upon which we choose to fight. If I were to choose to up sticks for a better frontier or battlefield elsewhere I’d probably be slap-damn in the heritage of the bulk of my immigrant ancestors that similarly chose to battle things out elsewhere rather than in the exact muddy ruts of their forefathers. I’m not sure my main allegience is the dirt or coordinates of this nation, and there may be places where its better cultural characteristics are shared by people still willing to change and grow — the coordinates don’t have an exclusive on those.

  142. 142.

    Elie

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I have had a bad day but that doesn’t mean that my bullshit meter isn’t working entirely. When people say that they are taking off from a fight, I see no reason to not take them at their word. As I see it, this aint no time to be pussy footing around what we are and what we plan to do. Maybe not for you. Maybe saying “I quit” is pretty normal and usually it is pretty ok to dink around with. But these are different times and I “look” so to speak, around to see whats what. Of for sure, people on a blog aren’t going to be immediately next to me or in my community — but their attitudes reveal a lot. Get over yourself. Its not about me entirely.

  144. 144.

    catclub

    @redshirt:

    I thought both candidates for President officially got briefed by the current Admin.

    so you think there is a law somewhere stating that the two major party candidates get security briefings from the present administration? I sure doubt that.

    It is a reasonable thing to do – a norm, as it were, but I doubt there is a law requiring it. That law would have to specify what goes in the briefings, which is virtually impossible to do years in advance.

  145. 145.

    Anne Laurie

    @redshirt:

    I can’t imagine a restaurant offering moose meat.

    A German restaurant in Springfield, MA used to have a wild game month. The moose was tasty enough, but it had been marinated for a long time & then covered with a cream-based wild mushroom sauce, so it could just as well have been carved from a baseball glove or a newish boot…

  147. 147.

    redshirt

    @p.a.: As with most things Republican, it amazes me that the party and the candidate that routinely trashes America is the one who gets the default “Patriot” label.

    To suggest that the US nuclear arsenal is somehow (Obama!) in disrepair and the Russian arsenal – Russia, a country in a decades long state of decay and regression – is top notch, is ludicrous. And yet, here we are.

  149. 149.

    Elie

    @Emma:

    I hear you and no disrespect intended when I say ok then…. those of you who “know” when you say it and mean it or just say it cause reasons…. may not communicate all the special ways that could mean different…

    Look, I have a sense of humor and all and know folks might not “mean” it. But why say it then? I hate fooling around about some things. My bad… you guys know what you REALLY mean, wink wink for those of us who know we would have to stay and fight for a whole lot of reasons…I truly know you are all good people

  152. 152.

    Anne Laurie

    @Elie:

    Its surprising that you walk away so easily from what your parents and grandparent and their parents fought for, and made their way through.

    To be fair, two of my grandparents were (Irish) immigrants, and another was only born on American soil because her mother left Connemara just in time.

    On the other hand, the family story was that my maternal grandfather’s father came to NY to serve as a “stand in” draftee for a rich Yankee who didn’t want to go fight the Civil War, so we have some skin in that game…

    But I’m like you, those arseholes are not gonna drive me out of MY country. Although in my case, it helps that I’m old & fat & lazy & don’t have kids to worry about.

  153. 153.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Elie: Get a sense of humor. What this really was was sort of an exercise in where were would you go to live if you could live anywhere. If you can’t see that, you need to take a few deep breaths.

  159. 159.

    Origuy

    I had moose at a restaurant in Sweden. It’s been years, so I couldn’t describe the taste. I also had reindeer on that trip.

  160. 160.

    schrodinger's cat

    @Elie: I am not taking off anywhere. Just holding off on making a huge purchase so that our assets are liquid. Besides, we have just started looking and it will probably take that much time anyway. I am going to volunteer for Hillz just like I did for Obama.

  161. 161.

    Emma

    @Elie: Elie, you’re letting this bastard get you down. Don’t do that. It’s going to be a bitchfight and we’re all going to pitch in. Some of the commenters here have been fighting shitheads for decades and aren’t about to give up now.

  162. 162.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Elie: @schrodinger’s cat: I am not going anywhere either. My family has been on the continent for four centuries. If someone wants to take a little game and project it into serious political dialog, that person can but it is idiotic.

  167. 167.

    scav

    @Origuy: Ahh! A fellow terror to small still believing children! I too definitely had the reindeer, also in Sweden (with cloudberries). I bet they fed me moose too, but it’s less clear in my mind. The travel-hazard breed with all the signs posted along Swedish roads. I was never in a rudolph crossing zone on that trip, not that I noticed.

  171. 171.

    Elie

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    @Emma:

    OK then.

    Just looking around and counting heads. (not really but you get what I mean). He’s not getting to me but I have learned for myself anyway that if I have to “Bring it” at some point, I had better start to think about getting ready and what that would mean. I am very comfortable in my life and surely do not see myself as some sort of freedom fighter — until I have to.

    I am old (66) and would consider it important to be able to do what is necessary to save what can be saved if it meant sacrificing myself. Its important to have things mean something at this point. Life IS good — but that is why its worth fighting for the things and people that I believe in. And speaking of humor, I am fighting to be able to poke fun and laugh freely and not be afraid that a storm trooper is gonna show up at my or my friend’s house. I want to be able to post my comments to B-J and laugh at some of your funny asses for the rest of my life…

  173. 173.

    Miss Bianca

    @joel hanes: OK, I enjoyed that way, way, too much. I “The Europese”…

    And yet the scary thing is that even W. looks like a statesman and a genius. W. should be sending money to Trump’s campaign – he’s the only guy they could have got that could possibly make anyone feel any nostalgia for George W. Bush.

  179. 179.

    RaflW

    Very late to this party, but just gotta say – Holy shit that Jared Yates Sexton storify from Greensboro is terrifying. Trump really is unleashing the brownshirts. Sexton mentions that he dislikes the Hitler comparisons, but I agree with him that they seem sickeningly apt.

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