Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

When someone says they “love freedom”, rest assured they don’t mean yours.

Come on, man.

I desperately hope that, yet again, i am wrong.

Lick the third rail, it tastes like chocolate!

We need to vote them all out and restore sane Democratic government.

The most dangerous place for a black man in America is in a white man’s imagination.

In after Baud. Damn.

Republicans got rid of McCarthy. Democrats chose not to save him.

The Supreme Court cannot be allowed to become the ultimate, unaccountable arbiter of everything.

Republicans: slavery is when you own me. freedom is when I own you.

Can we lighten up on the doomsday scenarios?

I’ve spoken to my cat about this, but it doesn’t seem to do any good.

Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals

Live so that if you miss a day of work people aren’t hoping you’re dead.

They fucked up the fucking up of the fuckup!

One lie, alone, tears the fabric of reality.

It’s the corruption, stupid.

Dead end MAGA boomers crying about Talyor Swift being a Dem is my kind of music. Turn it up.

The fight for our country is always worth it. ~Kamala Harris

Donald Trump found guilty as fuck – May 30, 2024!

Yeah, with this crowd one never knows.

You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / Brexit Open Thread

Reader Interactions

213Comments

  3. 3.

    Anoniminous

    Now the Punditarchy and Chattering Classes have started to weigh in re: the political fallout. Take it way Jimmy!

    James Forsyth (@JGForsyth) June 24, 2016

    I suspect we might well see a general election before Article 50 is invoked; whoever the PM is seeking a mandate for the planned terms

  5. 5.

    BlueDWarrior

    Are we seeing the beginning of the end of the United Kingdom? I dunno, myself. I do think the UK will end up formally severing ties with the EU, and then all kinds of Eurozone chaos will break out as the big EU countries decide British disinvestment might not be that bad of an idea.

  8. 8.

    Marc

    Leave is exceeding expectations; like US elections, you have to pay attention to where the vote has come in and what the historical patterns are. Suspect that this is going to happen, which is a real shock. I have colleagues for whom this is going to be a gut punch.

    I also think that it’s a mistake to interpret an election in another country through a US lens. We do that entirely too often.

  11. 11.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    British currency tanks 7% — on course for biggest one day drop ever.

    British stock market plummets 7.4%.

    congratulations racists.

  12. 12.

    redshirt

    How many parts of the UK could join the USA? All of them, Katie? Or could we just admit the entire UK – Ireland island grouping into the USA as states 51-54? If Iceland wants to join in at the same time I wouldn’t blame them.

  13. 13.

    Ronnie Pudding

    Looks like Leave will win.
    Cameron has said he will respect the outcome, stating that it’s not a “neverendum.”

  15. 15.

    amygdala

    I’ve been binge listening to Union Jack, by Big Audio Dynamite:

    What happened to
    You men of might
    When things were wrong
    You made them right
    All for one and one for all
    All for one and one for all

    Now in the classroom
    I was told
    About the Empire
    How you were bold
    A pint of beer
    Like passes by
    Your spirits squased
    Just like a fly

    Across this green
    And pleasant land
    The powers slipping
    Through your hand
    All for one and one for all
    All for one and one for all

    Although the best line may be the movie sample: “You wouldn’t know Karl Marx from a toffee apple!”

  16. 16.

    bago

    Well, it’s the Twilight of the Elites. The upper class failed to trickle down, and the natives are restless.

  17. 17.

    Anoniminous

    @Adam L Silverman:

    A small victory for Leave is the Worst Case Scenario.

    There’s so many possible scenarios it is impossible to list them all in a simple blog post.

  18. 18.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    British currency has just dropped a full 10% = crash.

    but, but……….. brown people!

  19. 19.

    tobie

    Earlier today I was listening to a woman on BBC representing the leave campaign. She was convinced that China was supporting ‘leave’ since they couldn’t wait to trade with the UK without the interference of the EU and her constant mantra was that everyone was queuing up to be trade partners with an unfettered Britain. She then claimed that there was some discussion of the UK joining NAFTA. Man o man, I thought the US had a monopoly on stupid politicians but how mistaken I was.

    The leave campaign seems to be a combination of xenophobes, arch-conservatives, and anarcho-socialists riding the wave of anti-free-trade. It’s like Trump and BernieBros all wrapped up in one. Populist movements always have an ugly underbelly…

  20. 20.

    Peale

    @redshirt: Nope. We don’t want them. O.K. maybe iceland. I mean the entire population could relocate to a mid major city, like Charlotte, and no one would really notice, except for the sulfur smell and spike in moldering cod head prices (it’s a delicacy, trust me). But Brits serve their beer at room temperature. I will not accommodate that.

  21. 21.

    RaflW

    I just wandered off to look for Brexit results, and voila here’s a thread.

    It’s looking like the idiot nativists are pulling ahead.

  23. 23.

    CaseyL

    I’m not in favor of Brexit, and the fact that xenophobia is driving the Leave vote is repugnant.

    But.

    Wasn’t it just a year ago the EU was being roundly condemned for pushing austerity and driving nations into penury? Turning Greece into a debt slave, essentially?

  24. 24.

    The Sheriff's A Ni-

    All I know is that I’m pretty sure there’ll be far less laughing at America’s Short Fingered Vulgarian problem in the days to come.

  25. 25.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    Cameron to step down as early as tomorrow
    ———————————————–

    Can any one familiar with British customs explain why a PM has to resign when a major initiative is voted down?

  26. 26.

    RaflW

    @efgoldman: I’ve said it before, back when Oops was governor and threatening to leave: Y’all go right on ahead. The rest of the country really doesn’t need Texas, thank you. Taking Oklahoma with you would be a nice sweetener on the deal, though.

  27. 27.

    Anoniminous

    SNP preparing the ground for IndyRef 2:

    The SNP’s Westminster leader, Angus Robertson, has told ITV news that the scenario whereby Scotland votes to remain but the rest of UK opts for Brexit will trigger a “constitutional crisis”.

    And with all but two results now declared in Scotland – with remain so far winning in 30 of 32 council areas across the country – it is painfully obvious that the constituent parts of the UK have voted in very different directions.

    Granted, the remain vote in Scotland has not been decisive across the country: in Moray, for example, remain scraped through with 50.1%. But this is precisely the scenario that Nicola Sturgeon has been warning of since the EU referendum was first tabled: Scotland being “dragged out of the EU against its will”.

    The SNP’s manifesto was clear: this scenario represents a “material change” in circumstances that could trigger a second independence referendum.

    This time I’m betting they win.

  28. 28.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Omnes Omnibus: Fun fact. Referendum isn’t binding.

    I admit I haven’t followed this closely, but it’s amazing that fact doesn’t get mentioned more. (of course, the financial clusterfuck will last at least a couple of weeks)

  29. 29.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @CaseyL:

    Wasn’t it just a year ago the EU was being roundly condemned for pushing austerity and driving nations into penury? Turning Greece into a debt slave, essentially

    Yes. And?

  30. 30.

    burnspbesq

    The poor and under-educated white folks are voting in favor of their tribe and against their economic interests.

    Sounds a lot like a US Presidential election.

  32. 32.

    tobie

    @CaseyL: Yes, but the UK was not in the same position as Greece because it’s not a member of the currency union and didn’t have to submit to the stringent rules about debt to GDP ratio set by the European Central Bank.

    Varoufakis even came out in full support of remaining in spite of his serious criticisms of the EU and ECB:

  33. 33.

    Peale

    @CaseyL: Yep. The problem is that there is no real reason for a progressive to claim that staying is best. Yeah, I don’t want to be in league with the racists either, but what’s the point for progressives staying in an expansionist union that is economically as neo-liberal as the Tories. That decides that it is in its strategic interest to grab Ukraine into its orbit for “reasons.” Whose leaders jumped on board getting involved in Libya just as quickly as the next Neocon across the ocean? Yeah! give me more of that!

  34. 34.

    Marc

    @Omnes Omnibus: It’s noting that the left argument against the EU exists too. Whether it is particularly compelling is another matter, but Labor had divisions, just not as severe as the Tories.

  35. 35.

    Chris T.

    @CaseyL:

    Wasn’t it just a year ago the EU was being roundly condemned for pushing austerity and driving nations into penury? Turning Greece into a debt slave, essentially?

    Yes—but the UK has its own currency and is not bound in this particular way, as Greece is.

    (There are still a lot of considerations on all sides.)

  38. 38.

    CaseyL

    @Peale: I’m a liberal, not a progressive. I’m wondering if there’s a liberal case for Brexit. Globalism hasn’t worked out for a lot of people economically.

    Could just be me whistling past the graveyard.

  40. 40.

    Emma

    @CaseyL: Yes. I am one of those people who believe that the Germans have an outsize influence and it has not all been benign. But then again, there are good reasons for staying inside the tent and trying to force reforms.

  42. 42.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Marc: I would say that the primary left arguments in favor of the EU are 1914-18 and 1939-45. The neo-liberal austerity crap coming primarily from Germany is crap.

  43. 43.

    Suzanne

    This is really quite shocking to me. Wow. Well, I guess they want a depression more than they want to deal with immigrants.

    God, I hope this isn’t a sign of what’s to come in November.

  47. 47.

    The Sheriff's A Ni-

    @Suzanne:

    God, I hope this isn’t a sign of what’s to come in November.

    EVERYBODY PANIC OVER A FOREIGN ELECTION

  48. 48.

    Emma

    Why should it be? You’d have to search far and wide to find two more different situations.

  49. 49.

    PaulWartenberg2016

    Just picture how a Trump Presidency with its obsession with trade wars against Asia and disregard for government debt is going to affect the global markets.

    I’m wondering how many Leave voters are looking at their portfolios and pissing themselves over just what the hell is happening to their ROI?

  53. 53.

    Xantar

    Someone on Twitter pointed out that a Leave victory would mean that investors would scramble to take their money out of Europe and park it somewhere safe.

    Such as US Treasury bonds.

  55. 55.

    divF

    On another subject, as of an hour or so ago, Hillary still leads Bernie in the CA primary by 450K votes (same as 2+ weeks ago). This translates into a 54.2% – 44.9% lead.

  56. 56.

    mdblanche

    Nigel Farage has given his victory speech:

    If the predictions now are right this will be a victory for real people, a victory for ordinary people, a victory for decent people. We have fought against the multinationals, against the big merchant banks, against big politics, against lies, against lies, corruption and deceit and today honesty and decency and belief in nation I think now is going to win.

    We will have done it without having to fight, without a single bullet having been fired.

    This man is a fascist.

  57. 57.

    Peale

    @CaseyL: I don’t know. Really. OMG! Markets are Crashing! They’ll never recover!

    I really think that there isn’t a case one way or the other for liberals other than “we’re not racist.” I guess it is going to lead to turmoil for awhile ad that’s not good. And I guess liberals may have reasons to be skeptical of nationalism. But there’s worse things in life than not being in the EU. Honestly, I think Liberals might have well have flipped a coin in the voting booth. It really is the xenophobes vs. the corporations. Maybe choose the bankers because they are smarter?

  60. 60.

    bluehill

    I’ll indulge in some “unintended consequences” storytelling – I wonder how much the UK’s involvement in Iraq contributed to their fear of letting in more refugees, which led to the desire to leave the EU. I don’t think that OBL could have expected this outcome, but he and now ISIL wanted to turn moderate Muslims against the West and weaken Western alliances. If the Leave vote stays ahead as it is currently, I think it weakens the EU because other countries may consider leaving. It also gives Russia more opportunities to expand or strengthen their hold on former satellites as the EU is forced to deal with its internal issues.

    I know that’s a fair amount of speculation on my part, but it’s just another opportunity for me to say what a disaster GWB’s presidency was and continues to be. And now with Trump, there seems to be no end to knock on effects.

  64. 64.

    catclub

    @chopper: Somebody might make a pretty penny by buying cheap pounds and then have the non-binding nature of it all get slowly explained.

  66. 66.

    BlueDWarrior

    I’m starting to wonder if this might damage the Tories, especially if the European Markets really start melting down over the next couple of weeks. I know Cameron is probably screwed six ways to Sunday, but I’m interested in how this will affect the Conservative Party across the whole of England and Wales.

  68. 68.

    Anoniminous

    Roughly 66% in with ten million votes to go and Leave is ahead by ~900,000. Lots of votes outstanding. Remain can still pull it off but it’s not looking good.

  70. 70.

    Fair Economist

    @CaseyL:

    I’m a liberal, not a progressive. I’m wondering if there’s a liberal case for Brexit. Globalism hasn’t worked out for a lot of people economically.

    Oh, absolutely. For one, the EU pursues anti-growth policies. For another, the construction of the EU by treaty means the EU is relatively undemocratic – victorious parties don’t get to modify the treaties. For a last, companies can shop around for the lowest taxes.

  71. 71.

    Joel

    @Peale: One of the core arguments that I’ve heard in favor of “leave” is rooted in financial and industrial deregulation. If those aren’t neoliberal principles, I don’t know if that term actually has any meaning.

  72. 72.

    catclub

    @gwangung: Some pollster figured out that the combination of OLD, does not live in city, and voted conservative, and not college educated, means a leave vote.

    Many of those old and conservative might have retirement funds, but the no college might cut down the average value.

  75. 75.

    schrodinger's cat

    All the people panicking about Brexit. May I remind you that Sadiq Khan was just elected the mayor of London. Britain is not the Third Reich. I also don’t pretend to understand the local politics of the UK and I don’t think that everything that happens in the world is about the United States and this referendum says nothing about Trump or the Presidential elections.

  76. 76.

    CaseyL

    Well.

    Welcome to a new and exciting season of Unintended Consequences and Hoocouldanode.

    ETA: With guest starring arcs featuring Scotland Independence and Irish Re-Unification. Oy. Not bad, necessarily. Just…wow.

  79. 79.

    RaflW

    US S&P futures down 3.75% on the overnight news. Apparently our perfect markets didn’t digest all the pre-vote news perfectly. I’m sure the FTSE will be a bloodbath. Strange days, these. And the global economy is already precarious.

    Those fucking brilliant Brits!

    (Though if this causes Scotland and N.Ireland to eventually leave the UK, well, that would be quite the laugh wouldn’t it! Of all of it, Gibraltarians are probably the most screwed. But I suppose they are Imperialist occupiers (not being all that snarky on that last bit, fyi))

  81. 81.

    The Sheriff's A Ni-

    @mdblanche: The economy collapses, the jobs don’t come back, and Germany continues to sail along? I’d say ol’ Nigel might want to stay clear of any meat hooks.

  82. 82.

    Aleta

    I ran into this story about DJ T’s trip to Scotland:

    Reporters finance the bulk of presidential candidates’ campaign travel, by buying seats on the candidate’s charter plane. Mr. Trump has taken this a step further. He wants campaign reporters to pay for a charter to Scotland to open a Trump hotel property. Cost to reporters: $10,000 round trip, plus hotel and restaurant bills, which will probably be racked up at the two Trump-themed venues they’ll be visiting — if anyone signs up.

    It’s in the NYT 6/21. .

  86. 86.

    WarMunchkin

    Reasons why a representative democracy is better than a direct democracy #154214124125415….?

  89. 89.

    Randy P

    Hmm. I’m about to spend 3 hours of my vacation in England (passing through Gatwick). Maybe I should load up on tea or something.

  91. 91.

    Anoniminous

    @BlueDWarrior:

    As I said in the other thread, the UK is in for political chaos. The existing intra-party fighting will intensify. Cameron is dead meat and the CW is Boris Johnson – a slightly saner Trump – is expected to become the next Tory Leader and, thus, Prime Minister.

  92. 92.

    amygdala

    @RaflW: FTSE futures are down over 7%. Dow down about the same as S&P and NASDAQ down even more. Tomorrow’ll be interesting.

  94. 94.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Marc: How does one force parliament to craft and vote for legislation to begin Brexit? Civil Wars were fought over parliament’s authority.

  95. 95.

    Taylor

    Alex Salmond on BBC made an excellent point: normally a referendum is designed to get public acceptance of a major constitutional change (e.g. changing the voting system, entering the EEC, etc). But this was a referendum to do nothing, to stay in the EU. The only reason it happened at all was because Cameron was trying to silence the “bastards” (John Major’s term) in his own party.

    Cameron gambled the future of the country for the sake of political manouvering in his own party, and now may have lost. He got away with it on the Scottish independence referendum, starting talking about “English votes for English laws” the day after that referendum, and then won the general election by claiming Labor would be in the pocket of the SNP. Now if Remain succeeds, it will only be because of Scottish votes. Truly his chickens are coming home to roost. Quite a legacy.

  97. 97.

    Peale

    @Howard Beale IV: Yep. Ummm, and that was known for quite some time. I wonder if the Remainers thought to invest in an actual, you know, ground game GOTV. My guess is that even with 70% + participation, the youth needed to be driven to the polls.

  98. 98.

    Marc

    @Omnes Omnibus: I wish that you were right, but that is absolutely not the way that this is being treated there. Not a soul in the British media is talking about this not happening.

  99. 99.

    Emma

    @Randy P: Tea? Dixons. Aspinal. Moleskine. Harrods.

    Yes, I’ve spent a little too much time waiting for connecting flights. Why do you ask?

  101. 101.

    RaflW

    @CaseyL:

    Wasn’t it just a year ago the EU was being roundly condemned for pushing austerity and driving nations into penury? Turning Greece into a debt slave, essentially?

    Britain was largely in the grip of Austerians and confidence fairies for as long as the E.U. They’re all morons in terms of economics.

  104. 104.

    Adam L Silverman

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: He had staked his Prime Ministership on the Remain campaign. His party is divided, which is why he went ahead with the referendum, to shore up his position with the hope (which is not a strategy) that a Remain vote would shut them up and restore party unity. He’s failed on that, so his ability to run the Conservative Party is now in doubt.

  105. 105.

    amk

    well, butt-hurt ‘hard working white voters’, now that you have caught up with the car, what next?

  106. 106.

    The Ancient Randonneur

    Labor is in for a rough ride as well. Although the party actively campaigned for Remain many Labor strongholds voted heavily for Leave. The real divide is apparently between large urban areas, Northern Ireland and Scotland voting for Remain and the smaller cities and rural areas voting strongly for Leave. White working voters in general voting in Favor of Leave.

  110. 110.

    Splitting Image

    @CaseyL:

    I’m not in favor of Brexit, and the fact that xenophobia is driving the Leave vote is repugnant.

    But.

    Wasn’t it just a year ago the EU was being roundly condemned for pushing austerity and driving nations into penury? Turning Greece into a debt slave, essentially?

    If the Leave movement were being driven by a social democratic party that wanted to invest in infrastructure but was being prevented from doing so by the EU government, leaving the Union would make sense. You can make a good case that Greece was in exactly this situation last year.

    In the UK, the people voting for Leave are complaining about austerity, but empowering UKIP and the part of the Conservative party that thinks Margaret Thatcher was a commie. If Leave voters think that Europe-imposed austerity is bad, wait’ll they see what Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson have in store for them.

  111. 111.

    Taylor

    Schaubel, the architect of European austerianism, warned the Brits not to vote to leave the EU. Imagine how that played in the British media.

    What a disaster this man is. What a pygmy compared to the great men and women who built the EU to stop another Europe-wide war.

  112. 112.

    Adam L Silverman

    @bluehill: Putin is funding, overtly or covertly, all the European nationalist/neo-Fascist parties and movements. This includes the UKIP.

  113. 113.

    Miss Bianca

    @Omnes Omnibus: Didn’t mean that it’s not “real”. But doesn’t Cameron get to say, “oops, just kidding!” if the economy tanks as a result of this…referendum? Or is he pretty much out as a result? I can’t remember – I think he thought he was going to be able to surf the nativist wave, but could it really swamp him?

  114. 114.

    hovercraft

    @Fair Economist:
    Just like here the top has faired much better than the rest of us. Plus remember that because of all the conservative governments after the 2007/08 crash, they all opted for austerity to fix their economies. So their economies have recovered much slower with the Mediterranean countries have been a drag on the EU. Britain has faired better but in large part Cameron has used the crash as an excuse to push right wing policies, not quite Ryan austerity, but for the UK pretty harsh cuts to the social safety net. Hardship has led to the rise of nationalism and UKIP which blamed all these problems of the nation on immigrants. One half of Tories have used the EU as a scape goat for the unpopularity of many of their policies, while the other half of the party has towed the business and financial sectors interests, and labour was in the position of having to urge their supports to vote remain even though they have been hurt most by globalization. This is going to be ugly.

  115. 115.

    Adam L Silverman

    @CaseyL: Can you say the Celtic Confederacy of Scotland, Ireland, and Wales? Just typing it made Senator Webb feel all a tingly.

  116. 116.

    Rommie

    England is certainly in a pickle sandwich now. If they go through with Leave, Scotland and Northern Ireland may just Leave the UK in response. Wales voted heavily TO Leave, and if London does the “just kidding” pose, their independence movement has a big boost. Black Friday coming up…

  120. 120.

    hovercraft

    @burnspbesq:
    Nicola Sturgeon and SNP have been hinting rather strongly that if Brexit won they would move toward another independence referendum. She said Scotland’s future is with the EU.

  122. 122.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    Looks like the upper class twit party lost the vote of the white middle and working class by following policies that just made the rich richer, oops. Who could have predicted that.

    What’s ironic is that Cameron warning that it will kill them economically to leave was right, they weren’t listening anymore though because he was already killing most of them economically.

  123. 123.

    WarMunchkin

    How do you put up negative two lanterns in a lighthouse? Have the urge to do a Paul Revere type sketch.

  124. 124.

    Fair Economist

    @Miss Bianca:

    But doesn’t Cameron get to say, “oops, just kidding!” if the economy tanks as a result of this…referendum? Or is he pretty much out as a result?

    In a parliamentary system, it’s hard for a leader to stay on when he loses a referendum, especially one with such far-reaching consequences.

    A major issue coming up is that Britain has voted to Leave, but the actual Leaving would be a complex event with a lot of tough decisions. With a narrow win for Leave and both major parties split, it’s hard to see how anyone will actually execute Leave. Britain may well be in a messy limbo for years.

  125. 125.

    Peale

    @Joel: makes me laugh to think how much the British economy was regulated before the EU. Pretty much all of those onerous EU regulations are of the type the Brits will pass themselves.

    Their banks, if I recall, are so heavily regulated that each major bank has been involved in a costly scandal in the past 10 years. This isn’t exactly going to change anything.

  126. 126.

    amk

    Isn’t deadbeat donnie in UK (as it were) today? Can’t wait to hear what new bs talking points he will spout.

  127. 127.

    PaulWartenberg2016

    Markets are already tanking so bad that Wall Street might not even open tomorrow due to automatic cutoffs.

    This is what nativist populism gets you, people: economic downturns from panicking markets due to social-political instability.

    Enjoy.

  128. 128.

    BlueDWarrior

    @Anoniminous: I just find it amusing that the countryside nativists might get their wish for a truly independent, and possibly completely lonesome England.

    This whole imbroglio ends either with a shattered West Europe, a shattered United Kingdom, or a shattered British Political scene. (It will likely be some combination of all three.)

  129. 129.

    The Sheriff's A Ni-

    @Fair Economist: Throw in Scotland and Northern Ireland deciding to hold their own ‘we outta here’ referendums and you have right jolly good shitstorm on the horizon.

  131. 131.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Taylor: Salmon has always been a very shrewd politician. He is absolutely correct that Cameron has now destroyed the economy and most likely the UK in an attempt to maintain control of his party, which he’s now lost anyway. In a bid to cover his 6, he destroyed everything.

  132. 132.

    James E Powell

    Northern Ireland and Scotland pretty emphatic for “remain” – Doesn’t speak well for the U in UK

  134. 134.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    @Splitting Image:

    If Leave voters think that Europe-imposed austerity is bad, wait’ll they see what Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson have in store for them.

    Exactly.

  136. 136.

    Miss Bianca

    @Fair Economist: Why the *hell* did he agree to the referendum in the first place? I seem to recall, dimly, that he *did* agree to it – did he campaign on it? Jaysus, Mary, and Bride, what a maroon if he did! Congratulations, you yutz, you just did what hundreds of years of your predecessors didn’t – you’ve destroyed the UK!

  138. 138.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @efgoldman:

    Well, if Britain can leave the EU, why can’t say, Texas or Oklahoma or some of the traitor states go?

    I gather a man name Sherman present a firm reason against that.

  141. 141.

    Adam L Silverman

    @schrodinger’s cat: I have no idea. The connection appears to be Manafort and his people who are tied to Yanukovych and a number of Eastern European organized crime figures who are tied to Putin. Trump himself has connections, including former senior employees, specifically Sater, who are tied to the Bratva (Russian organized crime), which is tied to Putin.

  142. 142.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Miss Bianca: He agreed to shore up his right flank. OTOH, the deal he made with Nick Clegg mad that unnecessary. Clegg’s ass should be kicked the length of the Thames Embankment.

  145. 145.

    I Am Not Jon Snow

    I don’t understand. Melisandre looked into the flames yesterday and assured me Brexit would fail.

  146. 146.

    NickM

    What’s a stable Europe ever done for us, anyway?

    I’m agree that Putin is happy. England in the EU helped keep Germany down and Russia out, to borrow from the saying about NATO.

  149. 149.

    Emma

    @Miss Bianca: He agreed to it because he was more interested in the intra-conservative fight. Conservatives in general have tunnel-vision. That holds in the UK as well.

  151. 151.

    PaulWartenberg2016

    The Brexit move has serious consequences:

    1) The obvious one is happening right now with markets and commodities and futures all tanking on a global scale,

    2) If the UK does proceed with the Leave effort, this puts Scotland and Northern Ireland into strong Independence referenda of their own, splitting the UK altogether. The political ramifications of the Commonwealth itself turns into a nightmare.

    3) The EU will face further fracturing as various nations unable to maintain status – Greece in particular – could follow UK’s lead. The economic impact of all THAT – with a big fight over onerous austerity measures – could deepen the coming recession/depression.

    4) This will actually galvanize nativist movements across the globe, especially in the US where the anti-Establishment voters believe they CAN disrupt the status quo.

    5) Game of Thrones may not be able to continue filming across the European continent.

  153. 153.

    Anoniminous

    @BlueDWarrior:

    I share your amusement. But you’ve overlooked the best of the jest: those countryside nativists are about to lose all that loverly European Union CAP money. That’s roughly €15.7 billion over the next 4 years gone.

  154. 154.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    This is from ITV’s Allegra Stratton.

    Follow
    Allegra Stratton ✔ @ITVAllegra
    Am being told that Cameron and Osborne are finished. There will be a “dignified exit” say senior Tories. “Not immediate”.
    12:02 AM – 24 Jun 2016
    543 543 Retweets 143 143 likes

    link

  155. 155.

    sigaba

    It looks like the UK has figured out a way to repeat all the damage of the Suez Crisis except without the guns.

  156. 156.

    Splitting Image

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:

    Can any one familiar with British customs explain why a PM has to resign when a major initiative is voted down?

    Parliamentary systems depend heavily on “soft power”, and a party leader whose members would be ashamed to appear in public with him has virtually no power over them. David Cameron’s balloon just popped, and he can either resign now or wait until every ambitious bastard in his party starts jockeying to replace him. Exiting on your own terms is considered more dignified, so if he resigns, the press will commend him for Leading with Leaderly Leadership and elevate him to the rank of statesman.

    If he tries to hang on, he *might* save his career, but most likely the party will force him out and make him a(n even bigger) national laughingstock in the process.

  158. 158.

    PaulWartenberg2016

    @efgoldman:

    Because the EU is a loose affiliation of separate nations. States in the USA are Constitutionally bound to the federal system. Also, if Texas leaves, mwhahahahhahahhahahaha they’ll just get invaded by a vengeful Mexican army.

  161. 161.

    hovercraft

    ITV reporting that Sinn Fein is making noise about a border referendum which could lead to the re-unification of Ireland.
    Shit is hitting the fan.

  162. 162.

    Matt McIrvin

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    All the people panicking about Brexit. May I remind you that Sadiq Khan was just elected the mayor of London.

    London also voted heavily for Remain. London is not the UK. (Nor is either the US.)

  165. 165.

    ? Martin

    Well, we’ll see if they go through with this. I expect Scotland to demand to leave UK and join EU as a separate nation. That’s just a further unravelling of a bad idea.

  166. 166.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @hovercraft: Aleem Maqbool ‏@ AleemMaqbool 30m30 minutes ago City of London, London
    Deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland, Martin McGuinness, reportedly calling for a vote on a united Ireland…

  167. 167.

    sigaba

    @PaulWartenberg2016:

    5) Game of Thrones may not be able to continue filming across the European continent

    They’ll have to play by the rules US producers do- the company will have to find a local production service entity to act as a local agent (and take 10% of the budget for the privilege) and the production will be susceptible to various local hire rules.

    You can always shoot your movie wherever you want, but there’s a half dozen different corners of the deal and they all take a bit off the top…

  168. 168.

    bluehill

    @Adam L Silverman: Yeah. This is the kind of ratf-ing that Putin seems good at. Lot easier to gain power dealing with individual countries than one united Europe. This could be the start of a gradual realignment of alliances in Europe that takes place over years, but opens up some potentially terrible outcomes. Lots of if’s between here and there, but those outcomes are now more viable.

  171. 171.

    burnspbesq

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    if Texas leaves, mwhahahahhahahhahahaha they’ll just get invaded by a vengeful Mexican army.

    Funny you should say that. I read the new Stephen Coonts novel over last weekend (protip: even if you’re a fan, pass–it’s awful). When Texas seceded after President Barry Soetoro declared martial law, the Mexican Army invaded … San Diego.

  172. 172.

    Brachiator

    Speaking at a party in Westminster, the Ukip leader, Nigel Farage, declared Friday the UK’s “independence day”, and said the referendum result was a “victory for real people, a victory for ordinary people, a victory for decent people”.

    You know. Morons.

  173. 173.

    BlueDWarrior

    @? Martin: I have no idea if the Tories really have the collective balls to do it, and basically dare the North Irish and the Scots to bolt. Because they are starting to make noises (especially the Scots) that if Parliament actually goes through with BRExit then the UK as a politically unified entity is done.

  176. 176.

    Adam L Silverman

    @bluehill: anything that weakens and destabilizes the EU and NATO is what he wants. Its straight out of the old KGB apparatchik playbook from the 70s and 80s.

  179. 179.

    ? Martin

    As any Californian can tell you: Beware direct democracy. The masses rarely can fully understand the consequences of complex problems wrapped up as tidy little votes.

  180. 180.

    Fair Economist

    @Miss Bianca:

    Why the *hell* did he agree to the referendum in the first place?

    He was trying to keep conservative voters from decamping for the UKIP independence party. He did campaign on offering a referendum, by 2017, IIRC. He called it early because it looked like polls had moved against independence and he thought Remain was more likely to win this summer than next year.

    Whoops.

  181. 181.

    ? Martin

    @BlueDWarrior: Tories may not get a say. The Queen still has the ability to step in and tell everyone to sit the fuck down, the UK will remain in the EU and will remain a unified Commonwealth. This is one of those times that she might play that card.

  182. 182.

    TheMightyTrowel

    As a former Brit resident, married to a Brit I have 3 opinions: 1. England is full of little-England nativists – many more than an outsider would expect and many who distinctly believe the Age of Empire is still (covertly) in full force. 2. The major failure here was on the part of Cameron – not only in allowing the referendum but in the ass-tastic way he led the Remain campaign. 3. Looks like Mr. Trowel will be applying for Australian citizenship this year.

  183. 183.

    Viva BrisVegas

    All that you need to know about the Leave Vote is that Rupert Murdoch supported it.

    Murdoch was once asked why he was so opposed to the European Union. ‘That’s easy,’ he replied. ‘When I go into Downing Street they do what I say; when I go to Brussels they take no notice.’

  185. 185.

    Brachiator

    @amk:

    Isn’t deadbeat donnie in UK (as it were) today? Can’t wait to hear what new bs talking points he will spout.

    He will say that this proves him right about… something. And he will offer to help England build a wall.

    But even a wall cannot keep out the Night King. Winter is coming and the UK may need some dragons after this vote.

  186. 186.

    Viva BrisVegas

    @? Martin:

    The Queen still has the ability to step in

    No she doesn’t. Seriously, if she tried she would be removed. She wouldn’t try.

    Scotland will definitely go. I doubt that Northern Ireland will be given the choice, but you never know.

  188. 188.

    Viva BrisVegas

    @TheMightyTrowel:

    Looks like Mr. Trowel will be applying for Australian citizenship this year.

    Welcome comrade Trowel. But only if you don’t vote LNP.

  192. 192.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @? Martin:

    The Queen still has the ability to step in and tell everyone to sit the fuck down, the UK will remain in the EU and will remain a unified Commonwealth.

    Are you nuts? That move guarantees a republic.

  193. 193.

    Viva BrisVegas

    @Origuy: In the Westminster system the role of the Queen is technically equivalent to the US President. In practice her role is more like that of the First Lady.

    She has power, but the only reason it still exists is based on the assumption that it would never be used. The first attempt to exercise it would be her last.

  195. 195.

    Peale

    @Origuy: I’d guess they’d be in the leave camp anyway. They’ve lost their edge as tax havens to Luxembourg. What’s the point of staying in the EU if the pass through entities pass you by for something sexier and new?

  196. 196.

    Peale

    @Omnes Omnibus: Scotland leaves. Northern Ireland leaves. The queen gets feisty and in the turmoil ends up remaining the queen of Scotland and Northern Ireland.

  197. 197.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Viva BrisVegas: Yep. She’s Head of State, but not Head of Government. We combine the two in the American Presidency. Most other states with systems based ultimately on Britain’s separate them out into President (Head of State) and Prime Minister (Head of Government).

  198. 198.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Miss Bianca: Previous refs to a same sex relationship. For whatever reason, I concluded female. Turns out that I was wrong. I need to mentally adjust the Trowel’s voice. #IMANANDIDIOT

  200. 200.

    Viva BrisVegas

    @Peale: As a descendant of James VI, she would probably remain Queen of Scotland no matter what happened. She is already Queen of Australia, Canada, New Zealand and a bunch of other independent countries.

    If Ireland reunited, she certainly could not stay on in any role in the north.

  203. 203.

    Suzanne

    @Viva BrisVegas: I can’t believe that if Scotland gets to vote on whether or not to stay in the UK that Northern Ireland wouldn’t get the same thing.

    Damn. This is bananas.

    Any chance they would leave and then rejoin in 15 years or so, after the olds die?

  205. 205.

    ? Martin

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Are you nuts? That move guarantees a republic.

    They’re likely already facing the loss of Scotland and Ireland. Is there really a greater downside to intervening?

  206. 206.

    Raven Onthill

    @? Martin: That hasn’t been done since 1707. It might cause even more chaos than the referendum already has.

    I am hoping that people will, over the next week, wake up and say, “What have we done?” and Parliament will set the vote aside; it’s not a binding referendum, but I am not hoping very hard.

    We might also consider the implications for the coming US elections: I think we had better fight very hard indeed to stop Trump. On the other hand, the epic economic disaster that is likely to hit England in the next few months may make our wingers rethink. (of course, that assumes they thought in the first place.) On yet a third hand, what impact is this going to have on the global economy. We are in a shaky recovery; this just might knock things down again.

    You hominids sure know how to mess things up.

  207. 207.

    Applejinx

    @divF: Yup, and also: Scalia is still dead.

    Hillary would not be Hillary if she didn’t look at this and calculate very hard what it means for her own aspirations.

    Crying racism is very easy, but what this really represents is an indictment of neoliberalism and austerity. I’m pretty sure the idea is to kick the EU out, no longer be guided by Germany’s economic policy, and cut loose all those enormous overleveraged banks and ??? profit!

    People are dumb if they thought that was going to work, but they didn’t really have a choice. They were told ‘trust us, things are going to be okay’ and they gave a big NOPE and didn’t care if they were seen as racists.

    I’m thinking this is a really useful warning shot. Hillary’s up against exactly this dynamic and there’s a danger that if things get too ‘neo’ she will lose: you can’t simply act in the interests of the ‘economy’ when it doesn’t represent human beings anymore. I personally know people who are lukewarm to Trump when they ought to be appalled, just because they trust Hillary Clinton’s intentions that little.

    The only solution is to outBernie Bernie and promise to bail out Main Street. Oddly, this is possible because ‘shock treatment’ works both ways: money will be fleeing towards safe Treasury bonds and the President will be able to get away with a hell of a lot in the shock of what’s just happened. In this case it’s not the populace shocked and dazed, so much as it is the financial sector. Britain has knocked it on its ass, and confidence (the oh-so-precious confidence fairy) is crippled, perhaps for a long time. NOBODY can run with neoliberalism now, it’ll be a literal bloodbath.

  210. 210.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Randy P: I suggest that immediately upon deplaning you run, do not walk, to the World of Whiskies outlet in the transit lounge & look interested in buying some decent Scotch but undecided about which. After loading up (literally) on free samples, retreat to a seat where you can watch the WoW entrance & wait for a shift change. Should you observe the staff who served you leaving, repeat the procedure. Bids fair to make the next leg of the journey rather euphoric. ;^D

  211. 211.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Joel: Welcome to the Untied Kingdom.

    Wait til those rural yobs wave cheerio to the Spaniards & Poles only to have their low-level jobs taken up by dark-skinned hordes from the Subcontinent Commonwealth. Serve the barstids right too.

  212. 212.

    Uncle Cosmo

    NB the tweet up top reminds me of a joke from Ceausescu’s Romania, related many years ago by my late friend Mile Stoyadin:

    Ceausescu was informed that the Romanian people wanted to be allowed to travel abroad. “I don’t undestand,” the Conducatore said. “Romania is such a beautiful country, why would anyone want to leave? But OK, I declare that anyone who wants an exit visa can get one at any border crossing.”

    Immediately huge lines formed at every border crossing in Romania. “I don’t understand this,” Ceausescu said again. “Romania is such a beautiful country, why would anyone want to leave?” He decided to find out for himself. He took out his suitcase, disguised himself in a long coat & a big hat that hid his features, & went to a nearby border crossing.

    As he stood in line a strong gust of wind came up & before he could grab his hat it was blown far away. Someone in line glanced his way, turned white as a sheet, pointed and shouted “LOOK!”,–

    Whereupon everyone in line grabbed their luggage & ran back into Romanian territory.

    Ceausescu walked up to the only person left, the border guard, & said, “I truly don’t understand. If they were all afraid of me, why did they run back into Romania instead of running across the border?”

    The guard replied, “Well you know, Romania is such a beautiful country, why would they want to leave–once they saw you were leaving?“

    I will always remember the phone call from Mile (which should have been his given name as an ethnic Serb, not the forcibly-Romanian Mircea) after the execution of the Ceausescus on Christmas Day 1989. “The devil is dead!” he shouted joyously, “the devil is dead!“

  213. 213.

    J R in WV

    Well, I haven’t read the thread yet, but wanted to say that if John was posting last night at 11 pm, then he wasn’t flooded out and still had internet connectivity. So that’s good.

    We’re OK, but for a completely dead phone line, which means I placed a trouble call to Frontier via our internet connection, which is a sat link. Power never went off. Saw amazing video of a burning house drifting downstream in the flooding at White Sulfur Springs.

    Hoping the roads haven’t washed out, they were damaged somewhat in the last rain storms.

Comments are closed.