Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

Yeah, with this crowd one never knows.

Nancy smash is sick of your bullshit.

Their freedom requires your slavery.

Good lord, these people are nuts.

I did not have this on my fuck 2022 bingo card.

JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

It’s easy to sit in safety and prescribe what other people should be doing.

They love authoritarianism, but only when they get to be the authoritarians.

Not so fun when the rabbit gets the gun, is it?

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

The GOP is a fucking disgrace.

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

This has so much WTF written all over it that it is hard to comprehend.

Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

An almost top 10,000 blog!

Nothing worth doing is easy.

And now I have baud making fun of me. this day can’t get worse.

Happy indictment week to all who celebrate!

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

This fight is for everything.

A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.

You are here: Home / Politics / Domestic Politics / Open Thread: Waiting on the Morning After the Night Before

Open Thread: Waiting on the Morning After the Night Before

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… Republicans moved to adjourn immediately after the Zika vote to shut down a round-the-clock sit-in by Democrats demanding votes on gun-control bills. Democrats denounced the GOP plan as “cowardly” and stayed on the floor to demand votes on bills to strengthen background checks and prevent suspected terrorists from buying guns…

Thanks to Adam, y’all have a clean thread just below where all the things that are not #NoBillNoBreak can be discussed. The sensible people — even the ones on PDT — have mostly gone to bed, and I have very few functioning brain cells left after enduring (another) round of dental work. So I’m gonna dump a bunch of stuff here, put most of it below the fold for speed of reloading, and let Betty or Richard update as necessary come the morning.

Meanwhile, the shorter: All praise to Rep. John Lewis, my personal Rep. Katherine Clark (who asked Rep. Lewis about tactics & timing), and all the Democrats who remembered Joe Hill’s injunction — Don’t mourn, organize!

The Washington Post has an explanation here of why House members had to sit in instead of filibustering. The GOP are still stuck between the rock of NRA dollars and the hard place of primary challenger ads. If they allow a (purely ceremonial) vote to keep individuals on the no-fly list from buying guns (NoFlyNoBuy) the NRA will do its considerable best to unseat them, and if they don’t allow it, their next opponent will remind everybody that Rep. GOPer is in favor of letting ISIS terrorists buy semi-automatics. And of course a tiny minority of Democratic supporters, or at least leftists who might theoretically vote for a Democrat someday if only we weren’t all hopelessly compromised, are having a hissy fit because this particular bill is kinda stupid (agreed) and only bad people care about “optics”. If I missed anything, let me know in the comments.

Standard reminder: You do not have to sign up on Twitter to read tweets. If you’re curious about the context of any particular embedded tweet here, click on the box, and you will be re-directed to that person’s twitter stream.


The BBC was impressed:

… This is unprecedented. Years of frustration at being unable to pass stricter gun control measures have now culminated in political drama. But even if they were given a vote, it would most likely not pass. After all, 100 bills on gun reforms have gone before Congress in the last five years and none of them have been successful. So what will have changed?

This is an election year where Democrats are trying to wrestle back control of the House and the Senate. Perhaps emboldened by recent polls which show most Americans would prefer stricter laws on guns, Democratic representatives are making it clear to the electorate that if you want change, you know which way to vote in November.

By Wednesday evening, some 168 House Democrats – out of 188 – and 34 senators – out of 44 – were on the floor…

Reader Interactions

146Comments

  1. 1.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    The sensible people — even the ones on PDT — have mostly gone to bed

    I believe that I’ve just been insulted. I’m hurt AL.

  7. 7.

    Baud

    Brexit vote today. Expect to hear Do I Stay or Do I Go? on the news channels all day.

  8. 8.

    Baud

    Between the House sit in and Brexit, we might go two whole news cycles that are not dominated by Trump.

    Detox won’t be pretty.

  9. 9.

    bystander

    @Baud: On top of that commercial for some hotel chain? If so, I’m glad we’ll be spending a chunk of the day traveling.

    Boy, looks as if I became the object of some shrieky responses to my wish that Clinton shy away from contact with Brent Scowcroft and Richard Armitage. I even had Henry Kissinger tossed at me. Their endorsements of Clinton tell us something, but they’re meaningless to the average trumpanzee. I was hoping we could otherwise leave all three of them on the trash heap of history.

  11. 11.

    MattF

    Genuinely pleased to see Bill Kristol predict a Trump victory. Yesterday he was predicting a Hillary victory and my heart sank.

  12. 12.

    Amir Khalid

    @bystander:
    The general objection, which I tend to agree with, was that you made rather too much of their having right-wing cooties.

  13. 13.

    Thoughtful David

    @Baud:
    I wonder if the timing of the sit in was actually arranged to overshadow Trump’s big speech yesterday?

    Trump delenda est

  14. 14.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    I’m in Washington this week.

    And by chance I was in the House gallery yesterday during the sit-in.

    I took some really cool video with my phone.

    HEre’s a clip of when Bernie Sanders walked in the chamber (video)

  20. 20.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    @Baud: i don’t know, I thought it was out of place, too. but it was the smoothest clip of the bunch.

  23. 23.

    Thoughtful David

    @Amir Khalid:
    I agree that those guys should be left In the dustbin of history, but I don’t see this having much political impact. It will allow a few bros to rationalize staying on their purity ponies, but at the same time give a few Republicans cover to vote for Clinton.

    I like “trumpanzees”. Gonna steal it.

    Oh, and Trump delenda est

  24. 24.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    Joe of the Morning is giving Trump a big wet kiss for ‘being a normal politician’.

  25. 25.

    Zinsky

    Yeah, just a “publicity stunt”, Paul Ryan, you POS! And those 50+ votes the House GOP held to “repeal and replace” Obamacare, when they had absolutely no alternative designed, weren’t publicity stunts. Like most bullies, the House GOP can dish it out, but they sure can’t take it, can they?

  26. 26.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    “due process”

    Hearing those words come out of their mouths is hilarious.

    Dems should brand them “soft on crime” – “soft on terror” – “cuddling criminals” – “more interested in criminals than victims”

  31. 31.

    Baud

    I just came across this randomly.

    A key chapter of music history could be rewritten by a jury that began deliberating Wednesday over whether Led Zeppelin ripped off a riff for its epic Stairway to Heaven.

  33. 33.

    Cat48

    @bystander:

    Scowcroft is a good guy, believes in military service only when necessary, and he was against the Iraq War. He’s an honorable man. He is 91, so be nice :). Obama liked him too & wanted FP more like his. He worked for Bush 1.

  35. 35.

    Mustang Bobby

    The good thing about not having TV at work is that I can’t hear what kind of sanctimony the Morning Joe crew is laying on us about the publicity stunt.

  36. 36.

    Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)

    What, really, is the point of Bill Kristol? Why does anybody listen to this guy? It’s amazing. He says nothing worthwhile, gets everything wrong for, what, 20 years? 25? And people pay him to say dumb shit. I want a job like that. I can say dumb shit. I daresay, I could say dumber shit than Kristol spouts, and more wittily, too. What do I have to do to get people to pay me to say dumb shit all day? This is flatly unfair.

  37. 37.

    amk

    What part of the blame do the voters share for the current political climate? I mean sending the same pos election after election creates the bubble that gop operates from.

  38. 38.

    Mustang Bobby

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Yeah, he’s normal the same way Little Richard is straight.

    ETA: I heard David Green on NPR grilling Sen. Amy Klobuchar about Trump’s accusations of Hillary Clinton as if they were based in reality and spoken by a sane person. Pissed me off.

  39. 39.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @raven: It hit 100 yesterday. I was gonna roll up a little early anyway, but as I was finishing up the last door I was building, I started cramping up (as usual for me in extreme heat) everywhere: Hands, forearms, chest, back, thighs, calves… My whole body decided to lock up all at once. Stayed that way the whole time I was rolling everything up. Finally let up on the drive home in that I was only cramping in one or 2 places at a time as opposed to everywhere. Kept that up off and on until…. Well, it never really stopped. Long night and I have a cramp in my right foot as I type.

    Taking today off. Supposed to be cooler tomorrow with a high of 90. I’ll go back then.

  40. 40.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    RICHMOND, Va. — Donald J. Trump has some ideas for how to jazz up the Republican National Convention, and he previewed one at a rally here on Friday evening: a “winner’s evening” of sports celebrities and champions addressing the convention rather than politicians.

    “We’re going to do it a little different, if it’s O.K.,” he told the crowd. “I’m thinking about getting some of the great sports people who like me a lot.”

    ****

    According to the candidate, he also has the support of the star quarterbacks Tom Brady and Ben Roethlisberger; Brian France, the chief executive of Nascar; and Dana White, the president of Ultimate Fighting Championship.

    So one night is going to be jocks and sports executives. The next night will probably be “winners” of beauty pageants.

  41. 41.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @raven: FYWP, ate my reply. Shorter version: 100 degrees, cramping everywhere all at once especially the hands. Not much sleep last night, still cramping as I type.

    In other words, SSDD.

  45. 45.

    bystander

    @Cat48: OK, you win, but is it worth getting wild eyed over on an Internet bulletin board? I never suggested we go over to his house and throw rocks at his Windows. My concern is that as the repub sphere implodes, we end up infected by a new bunch of Lieberman DINOs, rational actors with goals that are very different from traditional Democratic values.

  50. 50.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @Baud: Only problem getting down there was the train kept stopping for no reason(I was in the middle of the train), on the way back I was in the first car and they stop at quite a few intersections(the train doesn’t have preferential treatment as far a traffic signals).

    ETA: That said, it really is an inexpensive way to the westside, just a tad bit slow(and slower than it need be).

  52. 52.

    sherparick

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Joe loved the Hillary bashing in Trump’s speech yesterday. He is nostalgic for the 1990s and the misogyny gives him a thrill up his leg. Another guy who was really thrilled with it was Rush Limbaugh. But outside the 40% (and sadly the 70% of white men who make up the heart of the 40%) and the 5% of Bernie Bros who repeat Repug anti-Hillary talking points with the addition of “corporate whore” (nothing misogynist about that is there?), I don’t think speeches like that move the needle. It actually provokes the MSM media, which has been documented to be anti-Hillary for the last 18 months, to prove their “both sides” and “objective position” by pointing out the false and misleading allegations in the speech. Also, the House Dems did Hillary a favor by creating an alternate spectacle besides Trump for cable news to follow.

  54. 54.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @Baud: When I was on the train(I was in Santa Monica around lunchtime), driving would have been faster. But the train is less stressful and you don’t have to pay for parking(that alone would have been more than $8 that I paid; at only one location).

    ETA: Once you get off the train in Santa Monica, the sidewalk leading to the pier is rather funky. I thought that someone might have slipped me acid on the train.

  57. 57.

    debbie

    @Baud:

    You’d almost think the Republicans were more interested in protecting the terrorists over African Americans.

  62. 62.

    Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporate Shill

    Ryan apparently used the phrase “Hastert Rule” last night. Time to break that one off in his ass, start calling it the pederastert rule, and remind everyone that its author just reported to prison.

  63. 63.

    bystander

    @Baud:

    They are useful in highlighting — especially for the Village — the total insanity the GOP has become.

    You would think, yet Moanin’ Joe has been devoted first to setting the bar for Trump’s success at not tripping over himself, and secondly declaring victory for his speech yesterday. Forget any mention of Scowcroft’s endorsement. Trump was successful in calling Clinton a liar who was thieving at the State Department to enrich the Clinton Foundation, their personal piggy bank. No proof necessary, and certainly do not mention that Clinton’s points about Trump are all based in verifiable fact.

  66. 66.

    satby

    TL:DR, Good morning! Still have a tree on my house. No insurance adjuster showed, and I’m just having tree removers come today before almost 1/2 of this tiny house collapses.
    And looking seriously for somewhere else to move.

    But the sit-in yesterday made my day. So it’s good.

  69. 69.

    satby

    @amk: How about it? I called useless GOP POS Upton’ s office last night to tell them I supported the Dem sit in and that if he was at all honorable he would join them. Pigs will fly first, and his seat is his for life, sadly.

  71. 71.

    lollipopguild

    @Baud: You are all over this thread this morning President Baud, do you not have a country to run?

  72. 72.

    rikyrah

    I think what tickles me most about yesterday was Eddie Munster ‘s clown azz thinking that turning off the C-SPAN camera was going to stop it. I don’t even understand Periscope, but to turn on C-SPAN to watch and see them say that this was Congressman so-and-so’s Periscope, was amazing. ?

  73. 73.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @satby:

    No insurance adjuster showed,

    szol;ihdreakH:ZFLSkhasrLKHzasDF

    Sorry, that was my head repeatedly hitting the keyboard. I’ll try to not let that happen again.

  74. 74.

    satby

    @efgoldman: And just want to brag on IL rep Tammy Duckworth, who hid her cell phone in her prosthesis so that it wouldn’t be taken away, and was sitting in on the floor without them. She’s running to replace Republican Mark Kirk in the Senate.

  75. 75.

    ThresherK (GPad)

    @satby: The big Halloween snowstorm in CT took down oodles of trees in our yard, and (because I moved my car) really hit nothing.

    Hope things get better for you.

  78. 78.

    Iowa Old Lady

    Events yesterday really highlighted the difference between the two parties, despite claims they’re all the same. You have Trump lying so egregiously that the MSM feels required to fact check him. And then you have this sit-in that’s emotionally charged with pictures of gun victims, and We Shall Overcome, and John Lewis, and at the same time, well-planned and well-timed. I doubt it’s an accident that it came on the day that financial advisors rule was supposed to be voted on.

  79. 79.

    Patricia Kayden

    The Dems are handling this brilliantly. No one expects Rethugs to do anything about gun control because they don’t give a damn about anyone but their 1% friends and are controlled by the NRA. The Dems, however, are drawing a line in the sand and making it clear which Party you should vote for if you care about tackling gun-related violence.

    This is just another reason why #I’mWithHer.

  80. 80.

    Randy P

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: That sounds great. I think they should pit them against each other, Roman style. Give the jocks nets and sticks and the executives, I dunno, plastic light sabers or something.

    ETA: And if there’s a floor fight between the Trump delegates and the Never-Trump delegates, they could make it a literal floor fight.

  81. 81.

    Baud

    With all the recurring talk from Texas about seceding, I’m a little surprised that Texit never became a meme.

  82. 82.

    satby

    @OzarkHillbilly: Yeah, screw it. If the house doesn’t sell at a short sale at this point I’ll just mail in the keys and wish Quicken well. It was way underwater, they wouldn’t modify the loan, and now it has serious structural damage.
    But I’m surrounded by country boys who will be happy to cut the tree up for $500, because it’s maple and they all have woodburners.

  84. 84.

    Aleta

    The jokes are on fire here this morning! Feels good to smile this early.

    @satby: Once the tree guys get there it will go fast I hope. I had this happen 2 years ago. The tree guys were quite something to watch. And the insur co can’t deny the impact so to speak. Good luck.

  85. 85.

    ThresherK (GPad)

    @Baud: Wait until Hilz wins.

    Like some hidden room, a Texan somewhere (maybe the lite gov) will pull on a light sconce and all this USA stuff they’re wallowing themselves in will turn around to say Texas Secedes.

  87. 87.

    Cat48

    @bystander:

    I think Lt Gen Scowcroft just wants to sleep at night, knowing that Hillary won’t nuke the world. I think he just doesn’t trust Trump. He is not joining her Administration.

  88. 88.

    Matt McIrvin

    And of course a tiny minority of Democratic supporters, or at least leftists who might theoretically vote for a Democrat someday if only we weren’t all hopelessly compromised, are having a hissy fit because this particular bill is kinda stupid (agreed) and only bad people care about “optics”

    It’s opposed by the ACLU on the reasonable grounds that the no-fly list is itself a civil-liberties disaster. And that does make it harder for me to support this sit-in–to the extent that I do, it’s because the bill has zero chance of passing and it’s mostly intended to illustrate that the Republican position on guns and terorrism is hopelessly contradictory, which it is.

    But it’s also true that one of the many potential ways the Democratic coalition could fracture is a split between civil-liberties advocates and everyone else; you already see that in the concern about domestic spying and the NSA under Obama.

  89. 89.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @satby: Take lots of pictures, and have the country boys take pics too. Just in case.

    @Baud: It’s been a meme with me for decades.

  90. 90.

    gogol's wife

    So proud to be a Democrat.

    The other party needs to just disappear now and let us try to govern the country. Then the Democrats can split into the left & “center.”

  91. 91.

    Baud

    @Matt McIrvin:

    to the extent that I do, it’s because the bill has zero chance of passing and it’s mostly intended to illustrate that the Republican position on guns and terorrism is hopelessly contradictory, which it is.

    I think that’s universally why it’s supported. No one thinks this bill is a panacea for our gun problems.

  93. 93.

    satby

    @satby: And now the first tree guy is backing out from his quote and saying the $500 has gone up to two thousand.
    Called the second guy. Waiting for a call back, but he’s only got a couple of hours before I move on to $750.00 guy.
    Sigh.

  95. 95.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    It’s more than that as a tactic, though. It’s more than a stunt. If there’s another attack and any of the proposed legislation could have prevented it, we’re out of the realm of “thoughts and prayers” and into “could have been prevented but wasn’t”. That’s what they’re afraid of- any specific connection between a shooting and their inaction.

  96. 96.

    Randy P

    @satby: A neighbor of mine once had a hardwood tree removed (walnut maybe?) and sold it to a lumber mill. At least so he claimed. I think he made a profit on it.

    I don’t know how you’d arrange that but maybe you have nearby mills that would be interested in your maple tree.

  97. 97.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @satby:

    And now the first tree guy is backing out from his quote and saying the $500 has gone up to two thousand.

    He’s banking on the desperation factor. A buddy of mine just has 3 trees cut down, cut up, and chipped with stumps ground out for $800. Total. I would expect your’s to have a “dangerous” fee but $2000 is ridiculous.

  98. 98.

    gvg

    @bystander:

    My concern is that as the repub sphere implodes, we end up infected by a new bunch of Lieberman DINOs, rational actors with goals that are very different from traditional Democratic values.

    This is going to happen. I know the end of the GOP has been prematurely predicted for years now, but watching it this year how can we doubt it’s going to fracture soon. When that happens yes, we will pick up some new members that aren’t as liberal as before. I don’t know if our party won’t also split off, I have concerns, but if it does happen I can’t prevent it and I certainly didn’t cause whatever the heck happened to the GOP so I can’t prevent that either. About the possible “new democrats”, well changing parties will also change the echo chamber they hang out in. They may start more conservative, but politely informing them over and over of more facts AND not having hysterics and leading them over hate cliffs every week should in time moderate the theoretical newbies. For real facts we will just have to wait and see.
    Gaining back majorities in one or both chambers even with annoying blue dog democrats is worth plenty even if it won’t be utopia.

  100. 100.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    @satby: My first thought on seeing your photo was that you may need a crane. :( I’ll be very curious how they handle getting the tree down.

  101. 101.

    Iowa Old Lady

    I’m looking at the fools calling the sit-in a publicity stunt. Sweet cartwheeling Jesus. What do they think civil disobedience is meant to do? Do they believe Lewis walked across the Pettus Bridge because he wanted to get to the other side?

  102. 102.

    Aleta

    Trump’s tough international relations skills will be on display today as he bullies Scottish golf course employees. Hope he can spare the time for a few photo ops.

  104. 104.

    Baud

    @Kay: I don’t know. They’ve opposed the assault weapons ban since forever, and so far no one has blamed them for attacks carried out with assault rifles.

    I do think the GOP shot themselves in the foot this time trying to push the Islamic terrorism angle so hard early on. So now ISIS is in our house but we shouldn’t try to stop them from buying weapons? It is a strange stance to take. Strange enough this time??? We’ll see.

  105. 105.

    Kay

    For an entire school year Hillsborough, New Jersey, educators undertook an experiment, asking: Is the iPad really the best device for interactive learning?
    It’s a question that has been on many minds since 2010, when Apple released the iPad and schools began experimenting with it. The devices came along at a time when many school reformers were advocating to replace textbooks with online curricula and add creative apps to lessons. Some teachers welcomed the shift, which allowed their students to replace old poster-board presentations with narrated screencasts and review teacher-produced video lessons at any time.

    I would just like to note that I predicted this, based on the 13 year olds who hang around in my living room :)

    “iPads are for babies and old people” and then the poking motion they use to indicate incompetence on a keyboard is the kiss of death. They have to work on these things! Give them a real tool! Duh.

  106. 106.

    gvg

    Years ago we had a silver dollar eucalyptus tree fall on our week old car. At the time (70’s) silver dollar branches were being made into dried flower arrangements and sometime expensive fake trees for inside a house. Parents called florists from the phone book and one of them jumped at the chance and paid for the removal. The car had been completely buried by the tree but when it was removed I am not sure there were even scratches. springy branches and lightweight wood i guess. a strange experience. I think mom kept one of the branches herself. Australia is mostly dry and Florida is wet but many species from there have done too well here. Invasive and around water they suck it up. Then they fall over easily in storms. They are also very flammable (oils) and we get lots of lightning. In dry climates they are a fire hazzard. A lot of them are very pretty though.

  107. 107.

    Aleta

    @satby: ‘My guy’ adjusted the price according to the value of the wood he’d be taking to the mill. In that respect, it was good the have a pro outfit. The tree covered the width of the house.

  108. 108.

    OzarkHillbilly

    They’ve opposed the assault weapons ban since forever, and so far no one has blamed them for attacks carried out with assault rifles.

    I’ve been blaming them for that since the first one. Oh wait a minute, you did say “no one”. ;-)

  110. 110.

    Elmo

    @Randy P: After Hurricane Irene hit us in NOVA a few years ago, we had dozens of hardwood trees down all over the property. I cleared $750 selling them to lumber guys.

  111. 111.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    @OzarkHillbilly: Silly man, I was looking at the moment arms that they could create doing that. I can’t tell from the photo whether they need extra support. Which is why I’d be interested in the details of how they eventually take it down. Civil engineering background, yanno.

  112. 112.

    rikyrah

    Cantaloupe King Loses Bid to Block Tubman Twenties
    Iowa Rep. Steve King might be the worst person in the House of Representatives.

    by Martin Longman
    June 22, 2016 11:57 AM

    Based on what I know about Rep. Steve King of Iowa, it would be inexplicable if he didn’t introduce an amendment to block the Treasury Department from putting Harriet Tubman on the $20 bill. That he did so was as predictable as April Showers.

    What was also very predictable was that he’d shirk taking ownership of his racist motivation. I don’t quite understand why Rep. King is so willing to be a voice for the most reactionary white supremacists in the country but always claims that he’s not a racist and that it’s his critics who are the racists.

    Rep. Steve King (R-IA) proposed an amendment to a spending bill that would [prohibit] the use of funds to redesign any Federal Reserve note or coin. He said that the amendment was not intended as a slight to Tubman, but a symbol of his “conservative” commitment to preserving history.

    “It’s not about Harriet Tubman, it’s about keeping the picture on the $20,” King told Politico. “Y’know? Why would you want to change that? I am a conservative, I like to keep what we have.”

    The Iowa Republican went on to say that it was “racist” and “sexist” to suggest that a woman or person of color be included on U.S. currency. For King, the proposal to replace former president Andrew Jackson, a slaveowner, with an abolitionist and feminist icon was “liberal activism.”

    “This is a divisive proposal on the part of the president, and mine’s unifying,” he told Politico. “It says just don’t change anything.”

  113. 113.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Amir Khalid:

    TPM link; do take note of the typo at the beginning of paragraph 3.

    That was no typo; that was the simple, literal truth.

  117. 117.

    satby

    @Aleta: Yeah, the biggest part of the trunk has a lot of wood rot.

    I just contacted Quicken to tell them if they don’t sort out the insurance (it’s theirs, not mine) that I might have to vacate for safety’s sake because if that 1/2 of the house collapses it’s uninhabitable.

    T;DR: Nice house you have there Quicken, shame if anything would happen to it.

  118. 118.

    satby

    @Baud: That’s their (hopefully) fatal error: hysterically working up their followers to fear terrorists in every corner of the country, but not doing the slightest thing to keep the same terrorists from obtaining weapons? Does not compute for even the densest right winger. Except the guns fir everyone absolutist, who all think they’d win in a shootout with the local terrorist.

  119. 119.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:

    It’s more than that as a tactic, though. It’s more than a stunt. If there’s another attack and any of the proposed legislation could have prevented it, we’re out of the realm of “thoughts and prayers” and into “could have been prevented but wasn’t”. That’s what they’re afraid of- any specific connection between a shooting and their inaction.

    You are correct.

    And, then you have the disconnect from the truly oblivious.

    Louis G screaming ‘ It’s Islamic Terrorism’

    someone should have just screamed back ‘ That’s why they shouldn’t have guns, muthaphucka.’

    people understand ‘rights’ and all….but, you can’t rationalize terrorists being able to LEGALLY get guns.

    that THIS is even up for debate is phucking lunacy.

  123. 123.

    Gin & Tonic

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Damn, that’s cool. I was there in late afternoon, and I think people knew history was being made, because I was told it would be a 3-hour wait to get into the gallery. We were not physically up for that.

  126. 126.

    Gin & Tonic

    @satby: I was chatting with a meatspace friend yesterday, I guy I had thought was reasonable, and he said something about how 10% of Florida’s population had a concealed carry permit, so if 10% of the people in Pulse had been packing, that’d be like 30 people with guns, and think how quickly the shooter would have been taken out. I tried to tell him that if 30 people had been packing in there you’d likely have 100 dead, not 50. Just imagine 30 drunk, tired people in a dark, loud club at 0200 shooting wildly in all directions.

    You can’t reason with them.

  127. 127.

    hovercraft

    @Cat48:
    Trump will match that and beat you with this Trumo card.
    Fro TPM

    Former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld told the Daily Mail in a Wednesday interview that Donald Trump will have his full support in November.

    Rumsfeld said his decision to vote for Trump over Clinton was “not a close call,” citing the threat from “radical Islamists” and the need to limit how many refugees the U.S. accepts.

    As the former secretary of dense put it, “Mrs. Clinton is a known known. Donald Trump is a known unknown who’s a recent entry into the equation. And I am a lot more comfortable with a known unknown, who I will support, than with a known known who is unacceptable.”

    Now that’s an important worthwhile endorsement.

  129. 129.

    hovercraft

    If Arizona is this shaky……

    A new survey from one of the country’s most conservative congressional districts could raise some red flags for Republicans this election cycle and Donald Trump’s presidential hopes.

    Phoenix-based pollster Mike Noble’s OH Predictive Insights surveyed 462 Republicans in the East Valley suburbs of Phoenix. It’s a heavily Republican district with a significant Mormon population.

    Trump has some high unfavorables among Republicans planning to vote in this year’s elections. That could hurt his presidential chances against Hillary Clinton and impact other races if anti-Trump Republicans stay home.

    Noble’s survey found 37 percent of members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints had an unfavorable view of Trump, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee.

    Sixty percent of Mormons in the survey had favorable views.

    One in five Evangelicals surveyed, 21 percent, also had negative views of Trump while 74 percent approve.

    Thirty percent of other Protestants and 20 percent of Catholic Republicans also had negative views of the celebrity real estate and business mogul.

    “It is evident that Donald Trump is not a popular candidate among the LDS community despite him being the GOP’s presumptive presidential nominee,” Noble said. “If the LDS community is not motivated to vote due to Trump’s presence on the ticket, it could negatively impact voter turnout for the state’s congressional election.”

    Trump won the Arizona primary but lost to Ted Cruz in Utah and Idaho. All three states has significant LDS populations.

    Trump also has high negatives with women, younger voters and Hispanics. Trump backers point to Hillary Clinton high negatives with men and others voters. They also hope for bigger turnout from older voters and voters who may not have previously turned out in past elections.

    OH Predictive Insight

    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contact: Mackenzie Keller
    June 22, 2016 [email protected]

    Arizona Electorate Indicates Clinton Beating Trump

    Trump Performs Well with Rural Populace, Poorly with Females

    PHOENIX (June 22, 2016) —Democratic front-runner Hillary Clinton is beating Republican front-runner Donald Trump in Arizona, according to a recent poll conducted by leading behavior research polling company, OH Predictive Insights.

    In a survey of 1,060 likely Democrat, Republican, Independent and Non-Declared voters across Arizona based on projected 2016 general election turnout, Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton is up 4.3 percent over Republican candidate Donald Trump.

    2016 Arizona General Election

    June 20, 2016 Results

    Hillary Clinton 46.5%
    Donald Trump 42.2%
    3rd Party Candidate 5.8%
    Undecided 5.6%

    In the last six presidential contests, Arizona was won by a Republican five times. The last Democratic candidate to carry Arizona was Bill Clinton two decades ago in 1996.

    “Different regions yielded different results for the candidates. Trump did better than Clinton by six points in rural Arizona while Clinton experienced a 17-point lead in Pima county. However, when it came to Maricopa county, both candidates were virtually tied,” Mike Noble, managing partner of OH Predictive Insights and chief pollster, said. “Clinton held a healthy 12-point advantage over Trump when it came to female respondents. However, it’s very surprising to think that Hillary Clinton may carry Arizona, a state that holds the narratives of SB1070, two nationally known anti-illegal immigration sheriffs, liberal gun laws and consistently conservative constituents.”

  130. 130.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    @OzarkHillbilly: That was the only alternative I could come up with, but I’ve never seen it done. And both cranes and cherry pickers* are likely hard to come by in her area right now. So I’m curious if they’ll be extra creative somehow.

    *Is this a regionalism? I’ve never heard any other term in conversation.

  131. 131.

    Randy P

    @Gin & Tonic: Trump already trotted that one out, along with what a beautiful sight it would be to drill the shooter between the eyes. And he was so roundly mocked and criticized, even on the right, that he’s already moved to “I never said that, I just meant they needed more armed security guards”.

    So your friend is behind the curve.

  132. 132.

    El Caganer

    After yesterday’s tryout in the House, The Donald’s VP candidate is ready to serve: Trump/Gohmert ’16!

  133. 133.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Paul in KY: The 2 cotton woods were about 60 feet or so with a girth of app 1 1/2′ (straight as an arrow with very little canopy) but the elm was a monster: 2 trunks split about 3 feet up each one 2 1/2 -3′ in diameter app 60′ tall with a crown every bit of that. The tricky part of that one was it had grown into the corner of his barn and actually replaced all the structural members holding that part of it up. They took that trunk down to about 3 feet over the roof to hold it up until I could get the cribbing built to hold everything up when they come back to finish the job. It is gonna be tricky for them because it has to be removed bit by bit to avoid it pulling the whole barn down with it. They are doing that next week.

    Both my buddy and I were surprised at the cost (astonished is more like it) as we were thinking $1500-2000. They showed up with all their own equipment (including a boom truck) and got everything down (except the remnant of the elm) and cleaned up in 3-4 hours, coming back another day with the stump grinder.

    For Satby’s I would expect something in the range of $1K but I have no idea of labor rates where she is. Either way, to go from $500 to $2000 is a bait and switch and obviously he is trying to game her.

  135. 135.

    The Other Chuck

    @Amir Khalid:

    As the former secretary of defense put it, “Mrs. Clinton is a known known. Donald Trump is a known unknown who’s a recent entry into the equation. And I am a lot more comfortable with a known unknown, who I will support, than with a known known who is unacceptable.”

    This guy still thinks he sounds smart for saying that. Oh well, not like his name isn’t already mud.

  136. 136.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism:

    *Is this a regionalism? I’ve never heard any other term in conversation.

    I come from construction in MO where cherry pickers** refer to a boom with a basket mounted on a truck but a man lift with an articulated arm is a snorkel. 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. It’s interchangeable.

    ** a cherry picker is also the hoist with which engines are lifted out of/into a vehicle

  138. 138.

    Aleta

    @OzarkHillbilly: So, you know, stay hydrated and salted during this barn work. And electrolyted (emergen-c, or a small amt of Calm magnesium powder works well for leg cramps for my carpenter roofer friend. Calm powder helps sleep too.

  140. 140.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Aleta: No offense, but I hear this advice every time I mention my difficulties with cramping, the difficulties I have been suffering from all my life. I do all of the above and it helps… kind of… sort of… well probably not, but I tell myself the cramps can be worse (and boy can they) and take all that stuff on the off chance it does work.** I’ve had my blood tested 7 ways till Sunday for some lack or another and it always comes back normal. Believe me when I say I’ve tried everything and then some. It doesn’t work.

    The fact is, I just have to deal with it. But that doesn’t mean I can’t whine about it too.

    **the one thing that does work, v1cod1n, Docs don’t like handing out, so I hoard them when I get them (like from my recent broken ankle back in Dec, still have the full script minus 2 pills

  141. 141.

    Eric U.

    @Mustang Bobby: NPR is worthless most of the time. I like the public radio stations that have BBC on for most of their news. Unfortunately, Penn State relies mostly on NPR. I still occasionally get fund raising calls from tight-ass totebagger professors asking to support the local station, I enjoy telling them that I don’t support NPR because it’s a republican propaganda outlet. Seems to me that the proper response to questions about Trump’s lies about HRC is to refer the reporter to one of the articles debunking his speech.

  145. 145.

    Olduvai George

    @Amir Khalid: I am way late to this, so probably no one will see my comment, but… If you’re referring to the lowercase “secretary of defense,” it is correct according to the AP Stylebook, which I think is the standard for journalism. Sorry, but I’m a copy editor and I can’t help myself. I am possessed by the “hobgoblin of little minds.” If the title directly preceded his name, it should have initial caps: “former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld.”

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