It’s the most ungracious and begrudging “endorsement” I’ve ever seen in national politics, but Sanders affirms he WILL vote for Clinton:
Bernie Sanders confirms he will vote for Hillary Clinton in November.https://t.co/OESlI7oiag
— My Daughter's Army (@MyDaughtersArmy) June 24, 2016
Well, that’s one vote from the dead-enders.
PS: I hope Cole and his fellow West Virginians are okay. Scary storms in that area.
I thought we needed a positive message and couldn’t simply say how bad Trump will be.
Dr. Ralph Stanley
Man of Constant Sorrow
What a depressing morning. Brexit, stocks in freefall, live coverage of Trump advertising his golf club in Scotland, WV drowning, all topped off this jerk Sanders still acting as if losers get to dictate what the policies are of the candidate the majority of people chose.
At least it looks like a beautiful sunny day in the Poconos.
Positive is good.
Is there anything less relevant in the world this morning that what Bernie Sanders thinks?
I am just disgusted with Bernie. What an ass. Even Mitt Romney managed to concede with more grace. And now all his dead Enders will want even more praise for their failed messiah.
Iowa Old Lady
@dr. bloor: That’s what I said.
@raven: I’ve played that twice today. It’s feeling like a theme song lately. He sings better than me though ?
Glad he is at least saying “Vote Hillary”. AS for what he has done, just given an outlet for a lot of young people to air their grievances – not a bad thing. He is right and a lot of what he says needs to be said. However, Hillary is the dem leader and calls the shots. He has to follow or get out of the way (i.e. shuts up at the least.)
The depths of pointless pettiness to which Balloon Juice has fallen this election season – even the talented writers like Betty. SMH You all have become silly about this.
@Aimai: The overwhelming response from the true believers seems to be “fucking traitor!”
I’ll Wear a White Robe – Dr. Ralph Stanley
@Cermet: Bernie will never shut up.Bernie’s like my great-uncle, who in spite of having led the most parochial adult life of all of us, still insisted that we consider him a sage counselor and the supreme arbiter of what the world should be like.
@Jeff Spender: Did Ron Paul ever endorse the Republican nominee?
@OzarkHillbilly: I’ve always been struck how I don’t believe any of that stuff but love his music!
@Cermet: This. Thanks. The Bernie hate around here makes me sad. I get that the busters are A IDIOT, no question, but come on. Get over yourselves, stop mocking those who didn’t immediately fall in line behind HRC, and end the snark so we can pull together against the common enema.
Wonder what happens if hillz wins/loses by one vote.
Gin & Tonic
I’m not sure my definition of “everything I can” and St. Bernard’s are congruent.
@Cermet: is he saying “vote Hillary?” He hash not endorsed her and specifically not asked his voters to support her.
@Aimai: Black or red lebanese?
To be fair, we would treat anyone else the same way. And had Bernie won the nom, his supporters would be treating PUMAs the same way.
“Solidarity is for the little people” is a universal theme.
Your sadness hurts my heart, person I’ve never seen around here before.
My niece was forced to hike about four miles from her flooded house to my sister’s house in SE West Virginia after the Greenbrier and local streams flooded. Thankfully my niece’s 5-year old daughter (who was shocked when she learned from her mom that a nearby horse trailer and camper were floating toward her house across their big beautiful front yard) was with my sister and the rest of her WV family on the Carolina shore. Lot of water out there from all reports.
FINALLY. Good. Well done, and now onto to the general.
@raven: I too am an atheist who has always been very fond of spirituals and gospel music. An old friend of mine once said that for a grounded old troll I am one of the most spiritual people he knew. There might be something to that observation.
@MoZeu: Hahahahahahahaha, I can tell you’re new because you obviously weren’t around in 2008. You’re too funny.
An old clip of them at a Mississippi music festival: The Stanley Brothers, Rank Stranger
RobertDSC-Quad Intel Mac
No speaking slot at the convention until he suspends and concedes.
It’s that fucking simple.
@manyakitty: At this point, the behavior of Bernie Sanders himself is actually very unusual for a major-party candidate–I don’t think it’s reasonable to say “relax, this is just like 2008” any more. Maybe not surprising, since the guy has a history of not wanting to identify as a Democrat and his brand is opposition to the party leadership.
IMO, it’s a good thing that the alte kacker has taken note of reality. There was, after all, some question about that.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
Pretty sure manyakitty has been a Balloon Juice commenter for at least a few years. I remember seeing his/her wonderful nym.
Well, at least it’s an indication that he’s probably not going to join the Jill Stein movement, which was my remaining Sanders-related nightmare scenario.
Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporate Shill
Fools – don’t you know that Facebook likes, photo memes and retweets are far superior to actual primary votes?
Me, I’m eager for 2018 – the words Senator Dean or Senator Giordano sound very sweet to my ears.
Bernie Sanders supporters were mean to me on other websites, so I am either voting Trump or sitting out the general or maybe do a write-in.
I don’t see why I should back Democrats because some of the are rude to me on the Internet.
@OzarkHillbilly: Guide for Hire. . .See Lucky at the bar!
@RobertDSC-Quad Intel Mac: Dems da rulz.
@Baud: And I had a problem with that, too. I liked Bernie’s ideas, voted for him in the primary, and knew, without question, that I would vote for HRC when it came to the big chair. Would that the Baud 2016 campaign got more traction…
@Cacti: You’re part of the problem, person who is apparently blind or illiterate. I mostly lurk, but comment enough that I don’t deserve your nonsense. Plus, I’m pretty sure you’re not the arbiter of acknowledgement around these parts.
@gene108: Johnson/Weld. That’s definitely your ticket.
@Cacti: nah, manyakitty has been here long time, not a troll.
@OzarkHillbilly: I like the Cambodian Monks too!
I want to get off 2016’s wild ride.
@Humboldtblue: Hope things work out ok for them. Sounds bad.
Would you like a tissue?
Has your innocence been abused?
I’m sure Sanders meant to include some stuff about A Brighter Future, but once he’d listed all the Democrats who must be punished for not supporting him, he just ran out of room. Oops!
@Humboldtblue: So sorry to hear; hope their house survives with little/no significant damage!
@Germy: Good that he has compromised – that is a very good sign that things will smooth out and unify.
@OzarkHillbilly: Ditto – but a bit militarized after seeing all the damage in the world/history. Still, the music can be uplifting regardless.
Am I the only one that’s noticing that Bernie’s demands for reform don’t seem to include changing actual policies? He seems to be hellbent in restructuring the Democratic party to his liking. I will admit that I’m not one who seeks out every speech he makes, so am I missing something?
(added later)Oops. Missed Germy’s post upthread. My bad.
@SiubhanDuinne: Thanks for that! I’m glad someone noticed me, hahaha! (Also, am a she, if that matters) My nym is a combination of the fact that I currently serve three feline overlords, and that the one who is most attached to me is named Manya (Mme. Curie, actually, but that was her real nickname).
Not at all.
Bernie wants the Democratic party to be the party of other than Democrats.
No sale, old man.
@Aimai: Hell, _Ted Cruz_ losing to _Donald Trump_ showed more grace and class than Bernie Sanders is showing. That’s a bar so low that the only way you can fail to clear it involves mining equipment.
@satby: Thank you! How’s everything going out by you, anyway? No more falling timber?
@OzarkHillbilly: and Raven:
Same here. This Johnny Cash/Carter Family song always makes me cry.
@raven: Being part of the 9% instead of the 99%, I suppose.
A documentary: The Life & Times of Ralph Stanley
@FlyingToaster: Tuesday WELD!
The response of “I don’t know you, therefore your comment is stupid” is, well, stupid. And I frankly don’t care if anyone recognizes my nym or not.
@gene108: Hahaha! Seriously, those people scare the crap out of me. Purity ponies are bad in any color.
@Emma: Nope, you’re not missing anything. And, it’s telling that his demands for a more open and democratic primary process somehow have failed to mention eliminating or at least reducing caucuses, by far the least democratic part of the whole thing. I’m sure that’s completely a coincidence and has nothing to do with the fact that Bernie won caucuses but lost the majority of the primaries.
@raven: Missed that; since Bill is the only Republican I ever voted for. Also, I’m old, but not that old.
@dmsilev: He lost a majority of the caucuses too.
Big L, BoBs.
Ewww. No thanks.
James E Powell
Ted Kennedy in 1980
@raven: saw him perform two or three years ago. Not convinced he knew where he was or recognized the family members playing/singing with him, but he could still sing.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Not quite off-topic, I think
I wonder how many people wanted to ‘feel good about their vote’/’vote with their heart, not their head’/’send a message’
@MomSense: You not like my anti-short-fingered vulgarian joke?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Emma: I gotta say, I am impressed that he’s putting such an emphasis on the unfairness of the outdated caucus system, and calling for it to be reformed
Steve Benen views Der Trump in Scotland and wonders WTF.
I’m not pulling anything anywhere near the short-fingered vulgarian.
Bernie’s latest is he will not endorse Hillary until she gives into his demands.
@MattF: Well, me too. He’s celebrating Brexit in the one place that was solidly against it. It’s like he has a scenario in his head and plays it whether it suits reality or not.
“…Bernie wants the Democratic party to be the party of other than Democrats…”
It is a required article of faith with believers of the one true way that those evil unpledged PLEO delegates thwarted the will of the people by corruptly adding around 2,700,000 votes to she who cannot be named or voted for’s aggregate popular vote total during the primaries. How? They don’t know. But they’re certain it happened.
@Emma: If the pound collapses, there will be more tourism in Scotland, and Trump Inc. will profit.
@manyakitty: you have a memorable name. I was always wondering about “Manx cat”.
@MattF: I understand the reasons. I can even see the scenario. But each time it’s like watching Wile E. Coyote try to outwit the Road Runner. No matter how many times reality bites his ass, he keeps on ignoring it.
Re: the stupid Brexit vote, on a purely selfish note…I’m headed to London in a few weeks for a short business trip and literally just finished booking all my (pre-paid) hotel accommodations yesterday. Kicking myself for not having waited a day as I imagine the pound is going to slide.
Yes, what Trump thinks about Brexit
@Shell: It should be irrelevant, but, weirdly and ominously, it isn’t.
@MomSense: Ha! Okay, then.
@Elizabelle: I have a great picture of Manya giving major stink-eye. It’s my avatar on sites that allow them.
@manyakitty: been better but won’t recap here. I already used up my whine quota for the day here
Haven’t checked the news today, have you?
You’ve got to love him saying “yay, they took their country back, I’m so proud of them!” in Scotland, which voted to remain.
@MattF: Well, it isn’t irrelevant to the ramora press, but to the average Joe?
And purely anecdotally, based on my conversations, but the MSM is being seen as less and less relevant too. So we have both those things going for us.
@Emma: You know, maybe I should take my reduced funds and travel a bit. Lemonade!
Oh fer fuck sakes, people…can the petty hurt fee-fees BS. Be like Hillary and move on.
@satby: Oy. So sorry to hear this. Strength and peace to you.
I can vote for Johnson, but not Weld. People’s whose last names are verbs will never have my vote.
Gin & Tonic
@gene108: I thought Johnson was going to be running for PM of England.
@Emma: Yeah, just ran the numbers on the $ exchange rate today for the pound prices that I paid yesterday. *sob* Big picture though, I feel for all my friends in the UK who are going to have to live with the fallout from this stupidity. My FB feed is full of woe, teeth-gnashing, and “look out US folks…you could be next with Trump winning.” I’m certainly feeling more motivated to get my butt down to the local Democratic campaign office and start my volunteering for this election cycle.
Part of me is creeped about the generational rift in the British vote. It almost seems as though the older generation wants to bring the roof down on everything now that it is their twilight.
@satby: You’re not whining just to whine, though.
I hope the transaction is delayed; wish there was some clause where you get a mulligan if the market changes abruptly. (Of course, those whom the market blesses would not like that.)
Hoping your sister sits on her paperwork. Keep us posted. That is a concern, the timing of a financial payout.
Gin & Tonic
@GregB: No “almost” about it.
@satby: One of my favorite cousins, who died way too damn young, used to say “no me pueden quitar to bailao”, which means literally “they can’t take away what I’ve danced.” You have, no doubt, worrisome times ahead, but you can’t let them defeat you. After you get yourself settled in a new place, whatever you got left, go dance!
Why not? That’s certainly how their American counterparts are.
Sure the Dow started down 379, but that’s just a flesh wound. Already starting to climb out of the hole – to where it was only a couple of weeks ago.
@MattF: Do the trumpanzees ever actually hear what Trump is saying?
“Sure, markets will fall and your 401ks will be crying uncle, but I will make more money off this. As the pound falls, millionaires will see a bargain and come here to blow through a lot of money playing golf. And more jobs! I’ll be hiring more maids and laundresses just as soon as we see an uptick large enough to strain the current staff to the breaking point.”
And Sanders this morning on Moanin’ Joe appeared to be trying to get used to the idea that he lost. The MJ crew would love to savage his economic policies and create a narrative for him as the socialist devil who comes in sheep’s clothing.
I don’t think Sanders’ slow walk should be aggravating as many people here as it does. Having dropped any policy demands that’d impact how Clinton would actually govern as President, she can afford to throw him process crumbs, or even a slice of process cake, because why should she care about that? Whether she wins or loses the election, those changes will never affect her, since she’d run for re-election as an incumbent in 2020 if she wins. Also, if Sanders is going to deliver a full-throated endorsement of Clinton, why not wait to do it until people are watching, like when he’s on the convention podium?
With all the buyer’s remorse I’m hearing on the Brexit vote, I don’t think parliament will go through with it. If their constituents are saying they’ve changed their minds, and the MPs didn’t want to anyway, they’ll feel safe defying the referendum.
What? no. Older cohorts in US voted for status quo, In UK they voted to shake shit up. Youth voted the opposite, in both countries. American olds are certainly not trying to “bring the roof down”.
Bernie has become an asterisk on a footnote.
@manyakitty: If all mocking and snark were eliminated from b-j posts and comments, this site would wither and die. Sad! But true.
@JMG: It’s aggravating to me because we need to unite against the racist, sexist, xenophobic Circus Peanut sooner rather than later, and we ain’t got time for Sanders to revisit the stages of grief for his failed vanity campaign. As for this:
I dunno — maybe she cares about the Democratic Party and thinks Sanders’ process demands would harm it?
You’re talking about the clinical political calculus, and I don’t disagree. But there are other factors. 2008: Hillary runs against a man, loses, and has to bury her pain and anger while endorsing him with a smile. 2016: Hillary runs against a man, wins, and has to nurse him through his pain and anger, forgoing an endorsement, with a smile. Really?
I’m a guy and I think that’s messed up. It’s not everything, but it’s not nothing.
That’s a good argument, but I would counter ‘because Clinton cares about keeping the Democratic Party functioning’ and ‘because nobody wants to risk Sanders getting up on the stage at the convention and whining about how he was cheated, which would become the Empty Chair of this election and all anyone remembers.’
WV is a mess. I can’t believe the pics I am seeing from friends and family on FB.
@Technocrat: Bless you.
@MoZeu: Pointless pettiness is Bernie’s middle name.
@Elizabelle: I contacted her, so fingers crossed. It is what it is, and less than I expected is still a gift. And now insurance is having a team come out “in the next 24 hours” to remove the tree and tarp the roof. Maybe it was the line about my heirs knowing who to sue if the place collapsed on me ;)
@Emma: thanks, this made me a bit misty.
@Technocrat: Thank you. It rankles perhaps more than many folks realize, and more every day.
@Technocrat: Yeah. He’s a big boy, and burping him is not Hillary’s job.
Seems he’s trying to leave himself some wiggle room, though:
@Betty Cracker: There’s a whole lot of process, and surely Clinton can find parts of it to discard or change that wouldn’t hurt the Democrats in her opinion. Harry Truman said that the job of the President was to persuade people to do what they damn well ought to do without being persuaded, and that’s the issue Clinton has on her hands now.
Actual quote from an actual “Bernie or buster” on my facebook feed. We were discussing, actually fairly rationally until this, Brexit and diverged a bit into globalization. I was making the argument that globalization is not inherently a bad concept, it’s just bad when it’s used as a way to facilitate the race to the bottom where only rich assholes benefit. My argument was that if it was structured with sufficient protections, it could be uplifting to poorer countries while providing new markets for U.S. based businesses.
He just doesn’t care that much if it’s for humanitarian reasons. What a nice guy! The liberal version of IGMFY?
Beautiful performance. Reminds me of how much I loved the movie”O Brother, Where Art Thou,” and the music from the film.
RIP, Ralph Stanley.
And oddly enough, Stubborn Bernie is sure insisting on being a Man of Constant Sorrow.
Iowa Old Lady
Holy shit. I thought someone up thread was kidding when they said Trump lauded the UK for “taking their country back,” while in Scotland, no less. But he actually tweeted that.
What a moran.
Who are these changes going to persuade, though? Nobody is going to become a Hillary supporter over changing rules that Sanders uses to claim he was cheated. Some Sanders supporters will come over when they have time to digest how good a candidate Hillary is. The rest won’t vote for Hillary ever, period, and these changes won’t fix that. Sanders himself is the same. He’ll swallow his pride, which at this point is ‘petty butt hurt vanity’ rather than anything virtuous, and do the right thing – or he won’t. It’s looking like the latter.
@EthylEster: Agreed, understood, etc. Even so, the divisiveness is exhausting. I don’t expect a kumbaya moment or anything, but yeesh.
Here’s a potentially unifying question: is HRC playing on any of the morning or weekend punditfests, or is she just sitting back and waiting for the dust to clear?
@Frankensteinbeck: Good point. She understands optics.
I’m pretty sure US olds are for Trump.
@Betty Cracker: Maybe avoid a big fight between Sanders and the Congressional Black Caucus?
They said they are adamantly opposed to the rule changes he’s demanding.
Wow, this is really white of him, isn’t it? And by white I mean entitled old man. Clinging to the spotlight by his fingernails, Sanders says he’ll vote for Clinton. As Betty noted, that’s one buster vote.
@Belafon: Jeezus. He’s not really an asshole, he’s a fucking asshole.
Clinton will be the soul of graciousness in public, and maybe in private, but she has no reason to change the primary process in Sanders’ favor. The remaining ‘Bernie or Bust’ voters will mostly cool down over time from understandable disappointment, and when the campaign process shows them how liberal Clinton actually is, will support her.
That’s where I am with this. Fuck him. He embarrasses me as a man. I’m ashamed for all men with his behavior. Fuck him. I don’t give a fuck what he says or does at this point. He doesn’t matter any more. Events have moved passed him. 40% of the Revolution is voting for Trump or Johnson. Sanders has nothing to give. He may well endorse her, but for many, it is simply now just too late.
I told you that Sanders was running a campaign about how to run a campaign, not about populism or economic justice or any of the things his supporters think he stands for.
Hillary is campaigning. She had rallies last week and more planned next week. She needs to beat Trump.
In 2008, Hillary lost to Obama, the better candidate, and then fought to keep her political ambitions alive by getting a cabinet position in exchange for the guarantee that she and Bill would campaign hard and enthusiastically for Obama.
In 2016, Hillary beat Sanders, but has to negotiate with an opponent who may still have some political capital at his disposal.
It’s politics, and the Clintons know how the game is played as well as anyone.
And I think that Bernie actually loses leverage as time moves on. People want to know what Trump and Hillary think about the UK because they will have to deal with it. Bernie sounds like old news prattling on about his platform.
@Brachiator: Strangely enough, my African American son, who was a little kid when it came out, loved that movie too, we watched it many times.
She won the nomination, not a party dictatorship. Put Bernie’s proposals up for a vote at the convention. They’ll probably get voted down, and then Clinton can ask “so, do you support democracy”?
and pouty victimhood is his game.
And I’m pretty sure “The Olds” are not.
I’ve seen plenty of folks in my neighborhood with Trump stickers and they’re young and old, but one thing they have in common is they’re lower working class or unemployed.
Paul in KY
@Belafon: IN ALL LIKELYHOOD?!?!?!? What a dick…
Republican youts chose Trump by a wide margin over all other Republican candidates. Rubio was second, but still not really close:
Anecdotally, you have young writers like Milo Yiannopoulos who are very much pro-Trump.
@Frankensteinbeck: Sure. I also agree he’s burned through much, if not all of the good will he generated early on. Nor do I think he needs to be gently coaxed to endorse HRC; instead, he also needs to take several large steps back and look at the big picture. Hopefully, that’s starting to happen now, and will gain momentum in the weeks and months ahead. Just call me a starry-eyed dreamer.
When they statistically analyzed Trump supporters, the binding thread was racism. Everything else was ‘how popular is this belief with racists?’
Which is the exact opposite of what Bernie is doing. Whatever “negotiations” went on in private — and you can bet your sweet bippy Obama would not have agreed to giving her such an important position if he hadn’t considered competent — publicly she was 100%, vociferously supportive.
I would be DELIGHTED if you are right.
Republican youts chose Trump by a wide margin over all other Republican candidates. Rubio was second, but still not really close:
Anecdotally, you have young writers like Milo Yiannopoulos who are very much pro-Trump.
@Cat48: Okay, I just haven’t heard much about her, from her, lately.
@Frankensteinbeck: Yep. Color me shocked.
@Frankensteinbeck: Yeah, that’s one reason the focus on process irritates me so much; it implies Sanders was cheated, which he was not. How is wresting a concession out of the victor who beat you fair and square gonna mollify the morons who still insist Sanders was cheated? They’ll just use that “admission of guilt” to justify their votes for Stein or Trump.
The other reason the focus on process pisses me off: it illustrates that the “revolution” was nothing but a vanity project anyway. I voted for Clinton in the primary, but now I’m embarrassed that I was ever dumb enough to think Sanders’ running would be a good thing for the party.
@Frankensteinbeck: Me too. If not, his whole experiment was a waste.
what Jeb Bush thinks???
@raven: that’s where I’m at. Thanks for posting all the Ralph links.
@satby: Sorry to hear about all the shit you’re going thru’. Maybe this is the song you need right now. ; )
@Technocrat: Yeah, but there just aren’t that many yoots on the right.
I’m sorry but why should we put Bernie’s proposals up for a vote at the convention? Isn’t that what the primary process is? Bernie’s proposals went up for a vote in all 50 states plus the territories and they lost.
There seems to be a whole lot of entitlement going on in the Sanders camp. We knew what we were voting for and we weren’t voting for Sanders’ policies, most of which didn’t even make sense beyond the too good to be true slogan.
I think everyone dumping on Sanders is jumping the gun – its early. Agreed he should have started his transition from Clinton competitor to supporter earlier, because it was foregone by NY that he would not win, but assuming the Dems are treating his reps in the rules and platform committee reasonably well (maybe more optimism than reality, whatever), I think Sanders will eventually have a ringing endorsement and strong stumping in the fall for Clinton. Rubbing it in the face of Sanders supporters is not going to help Clinton.
I am really sorry that you are going through all of this. Sending you big hugs and wishing I could do more to help.
@Brachiator: I agree with this. Every day that passes makes Sanders more of a back number. Leverage has a shelf life, and his is approaching the expiration date.
@manyakitty: A pun, your nym! Upun many a level!
I have two kitten overlords crawling over me supervising my work right now. Said supervison seems to consists mainly of sitting on my arms and then crawling on the keyboard to bat at the cursor. Good times!
Paul in KY
@sunny raines: We’re not rubbing it in their faces. We have seen other end-of-primary situations & we are commenting on the flaws in Sen. Sander’s process.
As someone up above mentioned, it’s a lot closer to Teddy’s crap-endorsement of 1980 than others we’ve seen. That is not good at all.
Digby notes: Asked about market freefall, Trump says: “When the pound goes down, more people are coming to Turnberry, to be honest.”
It is always, always, ALWAYS about him.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: *facepalm*
“Gee, I voted, but I didn’t think/didn’t want to think my vote would COUNT or anything!”
Why does this story remind me of an anti-vaxxer whose kid suddenly gets the measles? “But-but- I thought EVERYONE ELSE’S vote would protect me!”
Clinton is a horrible, dishonest person.
I, too, will be voting for her in November.
@Parrotlover77: If you don’t care if people suffer, you are not a liberal.
IKR? What is the deal with white people, anyway?
Iowa Old Lady
I bear Sanders no ill will. It’s just that he’s dropped way down on the list of people or things I spend time thinking about. Leaving aside stuff like Satby’s roof, there’s Trump, Brexit, Orlando, a sit in on the House floor, and Clinton’s speech on the economy.
@JMG: I think the point is that *until* he offers a full-throated endorsement, he should not get a speaker’s slot at the convention. He should, in fact, get nothing.
@Emma: I am pleased to have played my little part in bringing “sweet bippy” into the BJ lexicon. You bet your sweet bippy I am! : )
@sunny raines: Maybe he will and maybe he won’t but his kabuki dance just wastes time and energy and money better spent on the fall election. It also allows the grievances of the undecided Bernie folks to fester. The sooner he and his supporters are on board the better. It also allows the Hillary campaign to better judge how many of the Bernie supporters really are democrats and independents ready to beat Trump and how many are just Paulittes or R*tfu*kers.
@manyakitty: Um, its not much different then the Hillary hate was 8 years ago. I think its like a left over blister after running a marathon. You still fell the irritation for weeks after the race. As a Hillarybot, I do think we need to lighten up on Bernie. Bernie is just trying to maximize his leverage prior to the convention and I am grateful that he and his campaign have moved, and continued to move the Overton window to the left (prime example: Democrats are now talking about expanding social security and increasing the benefit, not cutting it.)
Meanwhile, we should focus are snark and venom on the real enemies: Trump, Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, and the whole Neo-Confederate Party. Because Brexit is a warning: from Mainly Macro
“…In 2015 I argued that mediamacro had won it for Cameron and Osborne, and pretty well no one took this seriously. Just a year later, the united voice of economists has been successfully dismissed as Project Fear. Not by the people, but by politicians working together with most of the tabloid press, and a broadcast media obsessed with ‘balance’. The tabloid press has groomed its readers for Brexit. If any good is to come out of this, it will involve defeating most of the tabloid press, and then forever reducing their influence. And given the power of that media, this can only be done by a united opposition that is prepared to cooperate in an effort to beat Johnson and Farage.
There is also a very big warning here for the US. Clinton may be ahead now, but do not underestimate the power of the media (which is still giving Trump much more coverage) to turn that around.
Brexit is perhaps the first major casualty of the political populism that has followed the financial crisis and austerity. That populism triumphed in the UK because the establishment underestimated its power and did nothing to tackle the resentment on which it feeds and the misinformation on which it thrives. It has been strong enough to turn a traditionally outward looking nation into one that turns its back on its neighbours. The leaders as well as the people of other countries should not make the same mistake as the UK just made.” https://mainlymacro.blogspot.com/2016/06/the-triumph-of-tabloids.html
P.S. Why did Murdock (and that is who runs the tabloids) want Brexit? Because he believes he will be able to control the British Government of whatever party, and can’t control Brussels.
“I once asked Rupert Murdoch why he was so opposed to the European Union. ‘That’s easy,’ he replied. ‘When I go into Downing Street they do what I say; when I go to Brussels they take no notice.” Remember who owns Fox News.
I get that. But I feel like you’re making the political calculus argument again. No one doubts that Clinton will soth whatever feelings need to be soothed, as you say she knows how the game is played.
That being said, this is the Democratic Party. Respect for our multifaceted identities is important to us. You’ll notice that people still hold Hillary’s racially-charged “white working people” bit against her, and rightfully so. Sanders, as a Democratic politician, needs to be conscious of the optics of this. It has nothing to do with Hillary’s behavior, and everything to do with his.
In the Libertarian or Republican Parties, it probably wouldn’t be an issue.
True enough. But the end game of previous presidential primaries have been hard fought and bitter. Bernie is not a special case here.
And the bottom line is that he is coming around, if slowly. And his clear statement that Trump must be defeated is a firm message to any of his supporters who claim that they might vote for Trump over Hillary.
@Amaranthine RBG: You know, even *that* sounds less grudging than Sanders’s “endorsement”!
Mike in DC
Sanders is running out of time to pivot to a full endorsement. He will need to privately guarantee it a couple weeks before the convention, and publicly declare it the week before the convention. Doing it the day after Trumps acceptance speech would be ideal. Give the Berniacs a chance to see what we’re up against, focus their minds a bit (as much as possible, anyway).
@manyakitty: It’s Bernie and his dead-end true believers that need to get over themselves. The past two weeks have shown there are many more important things in this world than their precious egos and hurt fee-fees.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
If you want to send a message call Western Union. And they’ll have as much interest in hearing it as I do.
Weren’t you going to post pictures of your office kittens? Did I miss that along the way?
Reminds you of someone?
Corbyn is facing a no confidence motion from two of his MPs. We’ll see how mnay others sign on.
Iowa Old Lady
I’m still reeling at the idea that Trump said the UK had taken its country back. I’m sure the EU politicians would be happy to deal with an American president who apparently thinks they somehow stole rule of the UK.
@khead: And maybe (I wound say likely) once again AGW strikes and hurts; especially the very people who most actively support politicians that deny AGW. Sorry for these folk but the world is suffering and hundreds of thousands f Syrians are fleeing a war heavily brought on by AGW. This is real and only going to get far, far worse as we continue to march down this path of denial.
@SiubhanDuinne: That’s it…I’m sending them to Anne Laurie today. Some of them, in grand BJ fashion, are a bit blurry (high-speed kitteh!), so I’ve been holding off till I got some better ones, but the squee IT BURNS!! So off they go, blur and all. : )
@Miss Bianca: It’s very useful!
@Iowa Old Lady:
Ugh, I missed that. A surprisingly concise way to insult the other 27 countries in the EU. Amazing how much diplomatic damage this maroon can do just as a nominee.
I also won’t be shocked if we start hearing about a “Texit”. Again.
Great Britain won’t be so great anymore, after they lose Scotland.
@sherparick: Exactly. I remember the Hillary hate, too. I thought the stakes were high before, but this is a whole other level of worry. I’d quote your whole post, but it’s easier to click your name in my response.
@Miss Bianca: I get that kind of help from Manya when I’m on any kind of electronic device at home. She’s a big one for the “but I’m a kitty (pets, loves, foods, etc) goes here!”
And you are a whiny, lying, gun-humping clod, but I’m glad you’ll add to the Clinton vote total!
@Tegdirb: Bothsiderism at its best. We all have bigger problems to confront in November, so let’s get on with it.
I see the whiny Boomer brigade still butthurt that her royal majesty’s ass isn’t being kissed enough by the socialist upstart.
I’m glad he finally said that he would at least vote for her. sigh. Hard hard hard on him to do, apparently, but he did it so good on him. That said, sure could use his help getting his folks to back Hillary and out on the stump in white, rural areas…..
And you are . . . um . . . well . . . actually kind of awesome, Betty.
@Goblue72: I guess they’re still not dying off fast enough for you?
And that’s just the beginning of it. They are making an assumption that they can have only the best of a relationship with Europe and that they get to dictate the terms — similar to Trump and to a lesser extent, Bernie, here, talking about trade. The problem is not getting out, it is that there is no getting back IN easily and what that means. Its possible to whole former UK may now be in play if Scotland and Ireland exit. That leaves England and Wales and a whole confused mess around borders and trading even with each other on the same island….
Trump was grinning from ear to ear and I am so sorry that his whole shtick was re-invigorated — The Brits used language similar to his: “take my country back” — which validates the Trump shtick —
@Goblue72: Oh, shut UP already, you whiny self-righteous little git. Don’t you have some mighty, mighty social-justicing to take care of? Or are your lefty social-justice credentials just the same sort of illusory self-puffery your hero exhibits so much of? Cut from the same bolt of shoddy material, you two.
Paul in KY
@Betty Cracker: See! We can all find common ground to help defeat the Combover Caligula!
Since we are Bernie bashing again, he annoys me with the clueless demands of things Hillary doesn’t have the power to give and he is ignoring all of us who DIDN’T vote for him because we didn’t agree with him or trust him. I was always bothered that he was clearly only using the party when he wanted teh presidency. I didn’t like his earlier attacks on Obama which I didn’t agree with. I feel like his attacks on the party insult me, not just the big wigs. I don’t WANT most of his ideas even if they were real plans. I have worked for one of the largest Universities in the country for over 20 years in financial aid and while the goal is a good idea, it would take serious planning of years to implement including lots of money to train more teachers……he just has no idea. The countries colleges are many and not at all uniform.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Goblue72: are you, Working Class Hero and Honorary Twenty-Something, at long last going to drop your shield of modesty and tell us some facts about all the super-successful grass roots organizing from your long and impressive career as an activist?
Don’t forget to put sun screen on your bald spot when you make the long trek from your cubicle to the Camry with the fading Nader/LaDuke bumper sticker.
A little difference. The guy in 2008 was, as always gracious. And moved on. And asked her to be Secretary of State. 2016 and she’s running again and that guy in 2008 has endorsed her but this time she has to put up with a petulant 74 yr old child.
@Amaranthine RBG: And so is Sanders and just about every other politician to some degree or another.
Late to the thread, but it seems that no one has mentioned Angel Band. A Stanley Brothers tune, played over the credits of O Brother Where Art Thou ?
Rest In Peace, Dr. Stanley.
Nothing is more delicate than the feelings of a mediocre white man, shown the truth about himself.
And now he’s saying he wants to take the HELP committee leadership away from my senator for himself.
This is where I am as well. It has been obvious to me for some months that it was totally unexpected by Sanders that he would get anywhere near as far as he did. To me he ran to try and show that a third party doesn’t work in our system and so he has nowhere else to go but the democrats. That seemingly a not insignificant part of his support was rat copulating doesn’t bother him, it shows him that in his mind he is right, everyone should pick who runs and then vote for who they want several months later. He doesn’t understand the process of party, of politics, so he wants it eliminated. Democratic Socialist? Not really, that democratic part doesn’t apply to him.
@Parrotlover77: In other words, bake in the privileged position of the haves.Some progressive.
@manyakitty: you are a starry eyed dreamer. That’s good, though. But Bernie is walking back even this tepid endorsement. That’s bad. He’s not who he says he is. That’s worse.
“Some Sanders supporters will come over when they have time to digest how good a candidate Hillary is. The rest won’t vote for Hillary ever, period, and these changes won’t fix that.”
Just speaking for myself, I don’t fall into either of those categories. I am absolutely voting for Hillary, but it sure isn’t because I’ve “digest(ed) how good” Hillary is. She’s the Dem, and I vote for the Dem, regardless of whether or not I like them.
Incidentally, I think that Bernie is being unreasonable and unhelpful, and I’m disappointed by his less-than-enthusiastic endorsement.
I linked to this blogger’s rant on that subject a few weeks ago.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
That was cold. Probably spot on but cold.
FWIW, there will probably be kumbaya once Sanders officially concedes, but I think a lot of people don’t see why they need to be gracious in victory before the loser admits the loss.
Jack the Second
Chiming in as one of the people who has heartily enjoyed poking Busters for the last month or two–
My problem isn’t with the candidate per se (although I don’t really think he’d make that great a President) or some great loyalty to Hillary Clinton (although I am starting to think she’s kind of awesome).
My problem is that I’m part of the establishment. I show up at meetings, caucuses, and conventions. I vote in almost everything I can. I campaign, I collect signatures. I show up.
So I don’t have any problems with supporters of Bernie Sanders or primaries. They’re healthy. I just get annoyed when Busters or Sanders himself goes around calling the Democratic establishment corrupt, broken, a thing that must be destroyed. Calling me corrupt. That is the opening shot.
So when you’re wondering, why are people on the internet so upset, that is why. The Democratic Party isn’t just a ballot line, it isn’t some unthinking machine controlled directly by DWS. It is a grassroots organization of millions of people who have chosen to work together to further common and, yes, progressive goals. A bunch of people yelling that they want to be in charge because we aren’t progressive enough is both hurtful and insulting.
His entire congressional career is as a novelty item.
At some point it will sink in that Senator Sanders represents a tremendous lost opportunity cost, in comparison to an actual socialist (or even a fucking blue dog) in that seat, who is willing to compromise, politic, and move the ball forward.
It’s the gluten.
Is The Master still sending out fundraising e-mails promising that he’ll get the nomination if each of his followers just sends him another $27 for caviar and Hamilton tickets?
Now, now … you’re being shrill. I mean, it can’t be easy for a 40-something (or however old he really is) to put up a facade of being a Liberal Ubermensch (cue the heroic music in the background), who has just had it — HAD IT, I TELLS YA! — with all you/us Boomers, because WHAT THE FUCK HAVE BOOMERS EVER DONE, amirite?
Or something like that.
So you best be chillin’, not shrillin’.
@Jack the Second:
This. All of it. The BernieOrBusters don’t seem to realize that they’ve moved from criticizing a process to insulting all of the people who participate in that process.
@SFAW: Shrill, eh? You mean, like Hillary (or would that be Shrillary) Clinton herself?
See, I’m trying to figure out how to reconcile (from a spelling perspective) “Shrillary” and “Hitlary.”
But as to your question, I was thinking more along the lines of the Patron Saint of Shrilldom, Paul Krugman. (Although how he would ever get to be a Saint is something only the Pope could answer, IYKWIMAITYD.)
ETA: By the way, I have to confess that I don’t know if it should be “Shrilldom,” “Shrillness,” or “Shrillitude.” If I made a misteak, my apologies.
@Jack the Second: From the very beginning, the loudest of the Bern-feelers were outsiders demanding they be allowed inside so that they could destroy inside, because they were against the very idea that an inside existed.
As far as getting shit done, that doesn’t make one single scrap of sense. These aren’t revolutionaries, they’re armchair anarchists.
Oh, and a note for Conster: given Bernie’s latest performance, please accept my apologies for giving you a hard time the other day, vis-a-vis dumping on Bernie.
@Cacti: Now to be fair, the man in this case is significantly better than mediocre.
@different-church-lady: Bernie? I ain’t seein’ it.
ETA: Assuming by “this case” you mean the current situation.
@Poopyman: I mean it’s all relative: he might be a mediocre senator, but he’s been a successful mayor, he’s been a US rep, a US senator, and he fights for the right kind of stuff. In the larger flow of life that ain’t mediocre.
What I meant by “in this case” is in the case of this particular white guy. I most certainly don’t mean how he’s behaving at the moment.
@Cacti: my lord, maybe give it a rest already.
We are ultimately talking about politics, not psychology or gender relations (although this is part of the dynamic). Bernie is applying pressure because it is his last chance at larger political significance; otherwise he just sinks back into the Senate as an independent who sometimes caucuses with the Democrats. And Clinton will make a deal with Bernie if it helps her win over his supporters, whether his feelings are soothed or not.
I notice that black people overwhelmingly supported Hillary this time out.
In 2008, I wanted Obama to kick both Clintons to the curb over the shit they pulled, especially the “white working people bit.” But I enthusiastically support Clinton today because I think that she is the better candidate, not just the default Democrat we need to vote for against the Republicans.
But Sanders doesn’t have to be conscious of the optics of anything. He is trying to remake the Democratic Party to be more open to his brand of outsiders. I don’t totally back him, but I appreciate his efforts. There is a core of Democrats and potential Democrats who are frustrated with the mainstream Democratic Party. Their concerns must be addressed. And Clinton has to do more to appeal to younger voters if she is going to maintain the Obama Coalition.
So, yeah, what happens next has as much to do with Hillary’s behavior as it does with Bernie’s. And some of the fractures in the Democratic Party are very similar to what is happening with Republicans, maybe even the Libertarian Party to some degree. Citizens are fed up with parties which are more concerned with narrow special interests than with serving the people.
Is there an app for that?
I know he is on the correct side of things overall. But we base what we see of someone on how they are now, not what they looked, talked, walked decades ago. He’s given up most of any good will he’s garnered over the years in my book. We all lose sight of some things as we get older and things that were important to us may change over time. I’m not that far behind his lordship, age wise, and I can easily see that my priorities have changed over time. But that doesn’t mean that I’m willing to burn everything down for some sky in the pie concepts that disrupt, well everything, and at a cost to those least able to afford it, all the while ignoring huge swaths of real issues. IOW he may be on the liberal side but there is a reason he is and has been for a long time, an outsider to the process. And I’m not saying that the process is all that and a bag of chips either but it does work, so if there are changes, shouldn’t we discuss them, rather than throwing them out because the loser is miffed at losing? What I’m saying is that while someone may have a lifetime of reasonable achievement they can pretty much erase that by being a dick.
@Tegdirb: Jesus F Christ.
As a determined Bernster who got up and worked on the campaign trail for the man and went over to becoming a determined Hilster when it was obvious that the Bernie run had an effect (and that Hil was too good a politician to lose this round), sometimes this place makes me crazy.
Brexit shows what you get when your argument is ‘gruel is fine, austerity is fine, capital is super wealthy and the world is great!‘ while everything goes to hell, and then you add ‘and if you don’t agree you’re a dumb racist and that just proves nobody should listen to you!‘
Yeah, part of it is racism but it’s also economically driven naive populist uprising and misdirection is not fixing the problem. LOOK at Brexit. They promised to take the EU expenditures and use it for the NHS! Wasn’t even a day before Nigel Farage said ‘woops, we lied, never said that’.
The people RUNNING the racist xenophobe campaigns are authoritarian grifters. In no way should they win.
But they GET votes because they lie and play up, as hard as possible, the feckless uselessness of establishment politics and the way it is completely beholden to the ultra-rich. The racists are taking advantage of damage done by the status quo and promising to disrupt it.
The fact that they’re racists and assholes does not make the status quo fine and dandy. So when ‘tedgirb’ says
Yeah, the fundamental collapse of society into vulture capitalism is right up there. Funny how you have not ever once heard Sanders talk when that is the one thing he’s been yelling about, this WHOLE time, and even now he’s very much up a creek because he’s got to go against Trump, but he obviously is not at all sure Hillary’s learning from all this.
Bottom line is, this is a leadership moment for Hillary Clinton. It is up to her, nobody else, at this point. And she can either figure out something else post-neoliberalism (with that vaunted wonkiness, and yes this is possible, I almost expect it) or she can continue to put forth happy talk and look first to preserving the status of the incredibly rich (with a certain amount of bones thrown to the poors) like any establishment candidate might unthinkingly do.
And if she does that we might not even make it to 2020 without blowing the hell up. This is no time to praise the capitalism and pass the Martin Shkreli.
It’s up to Hillary. Bernie’s feelings aren’t relevant now. Nobody could have documented the situation and the voter blocs better. That’s done, and the ball’s in Hillary’s court.
Me, I’m hoping he’s just something of a self-involved prat like basically all politicians, and doesn’t WANT Hillary to clue in and inherit the movement he consolidated. Because if she manages to become the new FDR, he’s a mockery, a footnote to history. Of course he doesn’t want her to succeed, but I gotta live in this country so I hope she succeeds even though it would be awful for him.
This is partly why I want him to come back to Vermont and have a secure place as our Senator: he will ONLY have us and I dislike the historical revisionism that claims he had no purpose, no agenda, and it was all about his silky frizzed-out white hair and his bird. That’s Fox News level dishonesty, that’s positively hostile action and people carrying on in that way I’ll always treat as Republican ratfuckers, because I was at numerous speeches and know the guy’s platform and it never changed. This world is way too friendly to Big Lies and I get angry at people who propagate them (such as, in turn, the berners who act like he can still win or act like Hillary didn’t simply use the existing process to her advantage)
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Applejinx: sometimes this place makes me crazy.
Yeah, I don’t think… or never mind.
Brexit shows what you get when your argument is ‘gruel is fine, austerity is fine, capital is super wealthy and the world is great!‘ while everything goes to hell, and then you add ‘and if you don’t agree you’re a dumb racist and that just proves nobody should listen to you!‘’
No, this kind of stupid, straw-man, self-aggrandizing histrionics (“everybody who isn’t Bernie! Is a neoliberal Wall St sell-out austerian!”) are why no one should listen to you, and what make you, and Bernie!, so fucking annoying. Why don’t you fucking fuck the fuck off back to wherever the fuck you were gumming up threads with your fucking half-wit gibberish before last February?
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Because it could happen here.
Because I see multiple people I know, in real life, responding to behavior just like yours with a quiet sullen determination to vote Trump just as a fuck-you to you and your ilk, and it can happen here.
I just pray to God that Hillary is smarter and more observant than you. Seems possible.
For her to be completely oblivious would mean she was a true believer, not just playing along with the powers that be in order to get power of her own and use it. I don’t think she’s a true believer. I think she does what is appropriate for the times. That’s the only hope I have in this situation. I hope she’s drawing similar conclusions to what happened in the UK.
Folks, did you even listen to what Sanders said?
If there’s one single thing that has gone wrong with the Democrats it is the failure to listen.
Meantime, please, enough with the Sanders-bashing. We need everyone on deck for this one. The British faction that won Brexit is similar to the faction the supports Trump, and it won.
@Brachiator: fuck him. I dont appreciate extortionate brinksmanship when the stakes are this high. the democrats need to win this election. We dont need bernies leadership in his one day/someday pretend revolution.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: yup
Jim, Foolish Literalist
You mean a lot of your fellow Bernie Bros are gonna vote for Trump because someone on a blog pointed out how fucking stupid and obnoxious they are in their preening self righteousness (like Bernie!)? then you and your friends are even stupider and more ridiculous than I thought you were. And that’s saying something
@Raven Onthill: Yeah, closed primaries are the root of all evil. I was also listening when the self-righteous old crank was deciding a whole lot of voters didn’t really count because they weren’t voting for him. And when he said the Superdelegates were evil and corrupt, and they should ignore the will of the voters and support him, because he’s Bernie!
I’m all for focussing on the real enemy. Could you get that message to the demented old garden gnome who spent four months telling college kids that the Witch of Wall St and her Speeches! were the only thing standing between them and free college, and still won’t do anything meaningful to build up a down ticket majority, and can’t bring his precious self to endorse the winner of the primary without obnoxious qualifiers like ‘in all likelihood’? When that demented, narcissistic old fanatic stops being bash-able, I’ll stop bashing
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Aimai: “How can all you sore winners expect Bernie! to stop shitting in the pool when you won’t stop pointing out that he’s shitting in the pool? It’s all your fault!”
@Applejinx: I don’t want him to go away. I just want him to get with the program. He has tapped into a block of voters, mostly young, who are impatient with the existing system. Fine, they have a lot of things to be pissed off about. The problem with youth is it tends to be impatient and doesn’t take the long view. Bernie as a 74 year old grandfather can provide that perspective. Maybe we can’t get it all in 2016 but there is 2018 and 2020, etc. He talks about various movements in American history – civil rights, women, LGBT’s – but they all have long histories of trying and failing and trying again. Winning small battles before winning bigger battles. The NAACP was founded in what 1904 and the major civil rights legislation didn’t happen till 1965. Women got the right to vote in 1920 and its only in 2016 that a woman will lead a major party ticket for POTUS. Bernie’s young rebels are the future of the country and the party. The last thing he should want to do is see them turned off by whining about the system being rigged. Or adopting a my way or the highway approach to policy differences. Maybe the folks who voted against Bernie have good policy reasons for doing so and not just being shills for the corrupt system.
One of the things that continues to amuse me about this election is being lumped in with the corrupt establishment that is trying to destroy America. The people who make up much of that ‘corrupt establishment’ were the student rebels of the 1960’s. I remember arguing with my 70 something grandfather in the late 60’s that the student rebels would come around and become part of the system. Well they mostly did and now We are that ‘corrupt establishment’ that we railed against in our younger days.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Because a lot of people are absolutely desperate over economic conditions that YOU don’t seem to even slightly acknowledge, just like in the UK.
Again, I’m voting Hillary because I think she’s our best shot (including Bernie) to actively fix these problems.
There are people who mean to vote Trump for the same reason people voted Brexit: a protest vote of no confidence in austerity, neoliberal politics.
The more people behave like absolute children when called out on this, the more I despair of being able to deliver the election for Hillary Clinton. For God’s sake and for the sake of your/our candidate, wake the fuck up. It’s all about the economics. As Bernie has said from day one… and yeah he did NOT have answers but somebody’s got to come up with some. I think Hillary just might if she wants to.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
You know fuck all about me and what i think about politics or policy. You are a logorrheic, obnoxious, dishonest, self-righteous pain in the ass. Your incoherent stream-of-conscious ramblings frequently make these threads hard to read. And I wish you would stop fucking posting here.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Nope.
Now stop content-free ranting. There’s a reason I don’t know what you think, and it’s because your posts don’t contain thinking, just abuse. That’s fine for Balloon Juice, but things are serious.
Points for knowing what ‘logorrheic’ means! Brazenly guilty just that once :D
The same storms that hit WV rolled through us here in the Columbus area. Pretty bad thunder and lightning and some rain, but nothing as bad as in WV. Woke up the four year old though. Last I heard, four people died in WV. Damn shame.
Please, people, make sure you turn around, don’t drown if you try to cross water covered roads.
But how goddamn stupid do you have to be to think TRUMP of all people will counter that in any meaningful way? And how obtuse do you have to be to believe Barack Obama is a neoliberal austerity fan? FTR, the Trump voters I know are racist, sexist, gun-fondling idiots who would gape in confusion at you if you said the words “neoliberal” and “austerity” in their presence.
I have one non-stupid uncle who was Trump-curious for a few weeks early on, but one of Trump’s many appalling racist statements was too much for him, and now he’s voting for Johnson. It’s just really hard to believe anyone who calls him or herself a “progressive” would vote for Trump, yet according to a recent Bloomberg poll, north of 20% of Sanders voters are. Godspeed in your efforts to get through to those fucking idiots. I’d rather attempt to teach my hens calculus.
@Lurker Extraordinaire: Glad you are safe, and good advice about not driving into water.
Overall I’d bet it would be easier teaching the hens. At least the probability of success would be higher.
@Chyron HR: Now, we have to be fair. The Master would have a better plan than that–maybe teaming with some Daleks, or at least the Axons.
Bernie’s not in his (or, nowadays, her) league.
@Betty Cracker: I know, I know. Thanks. Yes, I do try to get through, cautiously (they’ll have my head on a pike in two seconds for apostacy).
If you’ve been studying this sort of thing you learned that extreme poverty DRASTICALLY impedes intelligence. It’s for practical reasons: life becomes an endless series of horrible money crises with existential consequences and you’re operating in a state of constant panic. And sure enough these people are inclined to freak out about political actions like they’re all crises, and they panic.
If you are panicking and hate everybody and SOME people have nothing better to do than yell at you and call you a moron it’s easy to fall for the Trump thing. He says he’s going to make everything awesome: so do the other people that you hate. You don’t know how he’s going to do that but you have no reason to think those you hate will even try, so it becomes nothing but lashing out, and the more people hate on Trump the more you align with him because you’re operating entirely on panic and adrenaline.
If some of these people had even a day of respite, of reasonable security, they’d find it easier to vote Dem. They’re being told the Democrats are basically Spectre with Hillary as Ernst Stavro Blofeld, and since Hillary has held various positions over a long and responsive career it’s easy to zing her for inconsistency (pro tip, how young is she when she said thus and so?). And then if you assume her intentions are pure evil, you figure anything she says is a trick and boom, Trump becomes your personal tantrum.
Trump sure as hell isn’t going to do a thing to make people any less panicky and stressed. Not in his interest to do so.
I know very well Obama’s no neoliberal austerian. We’re only doing as well as we are, because he didn’t fall for that trap. I turn to Mark Blyth for that appraisal: he spoke to Congress urging us to continue to resist the austerity thing and swearing it would lead to catastrophe. When people drag Obama into it, they’re getting really panicky. Sometimes that’s when I’ll ask them if they began believing everything Fox News tells them, and then I let it drop because that shakes Berniebros up quite a lot. And I want to make them slow down and think, I don’t want to taunt them with it.
These are intelligent people rendered irrational by fear and worry. Some don’t even have homes or jobs. It’s very much like what caused Brexit: massive disruption and panic. Folks keep assuming this is happening because of rational decisions. It’s not. This is racists and monsters taking advantage of a demoralized and panicking populace for their own ends, and unless you deal with the populace and de-panic them, it will just keep happening because they CAN’T think rationally while under this much stress.
Back in the 30s, Germans after the Treaty of Versailles were in similar conditions, despised and broke and under huge, huge pressure as part of daily life. You can’t be a historical monster without the panicking and overstressed populace. This is a problem you can easily buy your way out of by supporting the poors…
Chickens are musicians, not mathematicians…check out Cluck Norris on percussion:
@Applejinx: I can actually agree with a lot of this. I have several family members who’ve turned into BernieOrBusters, and one of them has committed to voting for Trump “if Hillary succeeds in stealing the election from him”.
I’ve tried reason. I’ve tried asking what their complains about Hillary are and refuting them. I’ve asked them what they’d like done to solve the problems they see, and pointing out commonalities between their ideas and Hillary. I’ve tried explaining that a lot of the things they see are regurgitated conspiracy theories from Fox News and right-wing propaganda machines. I didn’t do anything of these things snootily or angrily, but I would correct them when they were wrong.
Nope. These otherwise very intelligent people were determined to see Hillary as the enemy who was only ever out for herself and needed to be in Prison right now. I couldn’t understand it until I figured out that each of those family members was someone who’d experienced some really hard times, specifically within the last couple years of their lives. They’d latched onto Bernie emotionally and couldn’t let him go. These were the same people who praised Elizabeth Warren one minute and attacked her the moment she endorsed Hillary.
For those people, I’m not sure what the solution is. Mine was to leave them alone to let them experience grief at Bernie’s loss and then hope they start considering rational choices again. Hillary will have to continue to reach out to them, but given that she already has plans to resolve most of their fears I’m just not sure what she can do.
In the context of this larger thread, this is why Bernie really needs to come out and forcefully endorse Hillary, and sooner rather than later. If anyone can get through to these people, it’s him. If he explains that Hillary is not perfect BUT she’s a good human being with policies that are good for America and that he trusts she’ll follow through as best she can, that goes a long way towards allowing some of his more hurting supporters an excuse to genuinely look at Hillary and the alternatives again.
TIlda Swinton's Bald Cap
Skeptical he will do this.
The only ‘dead enders’ in this scenario are the retrograde DINOs who support and promote the tenets of a failed ideology – Clintonism.
Sanders Has Leverage But Clinton Will Never Bargain
Posted on June 23, 2016 by Yves Smith