Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?

If you voted for Trump, you don’t get to speak about ethics, morals, or rule of law.

Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

The most dangerous place for a black man in America is in a white man’s imagination.

“I was told there would be no fact checking.”

The arc of the moral universe doesn’t bend itself. it’s up to us.

GOP baffled that ‘we don’t care if you die’ is not a winning slogan.

You know it’s bad when the Project 2025 people have to create training videos on “How To Be Normal”.

Never give a known liar the benefit of the doubt.

“I never thought they’d lock HIM up,” sobbed a distraught member of the Lock Her Up Party.

Compromise? There is no middle ground between a firefighter and an arsonist.

Sadly, media malpractice has become standard practice.

An almost top 10,000 blog!

When you’re a Republican, they let you do it.

The lights are all blinking red.

It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.

Oh FFS you might as well trust a 6-year-old with a flamethrower.

Balloon Juice has never been a refuge for the linguistically delicate.

It’s a good piece. click on over. but then come back!!

I’m more christian than these people and i’m an atheist.

“Loving your country does not mean lying about it’s history.”

It’s easy to sit in safety and prescribe what other people should be doing.

Giving up is unforgivable. ~Joe Biden

You are here: Home / Civil Rights / LGBTQ Rights / Gay Rights are Human Rights / Stonewall Inn Now 1st National Monument to LGBT Rights

Reader Interactions

167Comments

  3. 3.

    Trentrunner

    Just a reminder that it was the marginalized of the marginalized who fought back at Stonewall: the transgendered, the non-white.

  4. 4.

    Betty Cracker

    @MomSense: I visited it a couple of summers ago when I was in NYC for my sister’s Big Fat Gay Wedding — we took some family photos in the park opposite the Inn to mark the occasion. Nice to think that it is now a national monument!

  5. 5.

    Humboldtblue

    I don’t see anything that provides details on the impending alliance between the two Irelands,
    Scotland and the Welsh — led by dreamboat chicken man Joe Allen — and plans to invade England one last time to kick their pasty, tea-swilling half-breed Norman laybout asses once and for all!

    Of course, Iceland and the Norsemen get a chance this weekend to kick some English ass, so maybe that’ll have to do until the real invasion starts.

  12. 12.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    President Obama is the greatest president. Too bad so many white people have decided to lose their shit all at once.

  18. 18.

    ruemara

    It’s impressive. Can’t believe gay rights have come so far. Part of why I can’t wait to gotv this November for Hilz. I want to keep those rights and build on them.

  19. 19.

    Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporate Shill

    If Obama cared at all about gay rights, he’d have done this on January 22, 2009.

    /Glenn Greenwald

  21. 21.

    Greenergood

    Scotland-resident walking: After today’s totally depressing Brexit news, thank you so much for something positive and happy-making – Scotland is rated as the most welcoming LGBT country in Europe, even though we’re not really regarded as a country … yet …

  22. 22.

    Humboldtblue

    @burnspbesq: Huh, I thought Wales ended up on the remain side. Oh well, guess they fucked that chicken. Can we still love Joe Allen, he’s the Welsh Xavi for the Reds?

    Scottish independence and One Ireland are both definitely on the table

    Think about that for a second and marvel how if you had typed those words last week you would have been laughed off the island.

  23. 23.

    LAO

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: Today, a 60 year old male, white, court officer attempted to explain to me (1) how America is the greatest country in the history of countries, (2) that we, as country, apologize too much and (3) Trump will re-establish America’s rightful place in the world. Also. I can take his gun from his cold, dead hands.

    It was a bizarre conversation — because it began with me apologizing for interrupting a female, African-American Court Officer.

  24. 24.

    Brachiator

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne:

    President Obama is the greatest president. Too bad so many white people have decided to lose their shit all at once.

    It is amazing how President Obama has devoted a significant part of his term in office explicitly expanding the idea of “We the people” to be so manifestly inclusive.

    And it is so sad that there are citizens whose fear cause them to embrace someone like Trump, whose call to “make America great again” is so bigoted and narrow.

    I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by who they love, but by the content of their character.

  27. 27.

    Tara the Antisocial Social Worker

    I’m old enough to remember when showing a same-sex kiss on Roseanne was considered shocking, domestic partnerships with few or no legal rights were cutting-edge, and no politician would be seen anywhere near gay anything.

    Thanks you President Obama, and thank you to all those LGBT people and allies who worked tirelessly for our civil rights.

  30. 30.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @Brachiator: @LAO:

    That’s why the Obama coalition is so important – once again, everyone not an angry old white guy will save the country’s bacon – the bacon that old white guy is enjoying thanks to Obama and his coalition that saved his bacon 8 years ago. That’s why Bernie’s phony baloney fraudulent revolution isn’t a revolution – it’s a white people tantrum. It’s just the other side of the angry white people coin.

  32. 32.

    LAO

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: I agree.

    What bothered me most about the encounter, was that this asshole felt (1) comfortable saying this to a complete stranger and (2) based upon the look on the other Court Officer’s face, he isn’t shy about expressing his views (which I gleaned over in my original comment and are quite racist). This guy was so angry at what his country had become, it threw me off balance.

  33. 33.

    Mnemosyne

    Nice! As a life-long history buff, I’m always glad to see new history being acknowledged and commemorated.

  36. 36.

    Humboldtblue

    @Origuy:

    I ran across a quote … somewhere this morning that said “look on the bright side, the last time the UK economy went into the shitter we got The Clash, the Psychadelic Furs, The Pogues, The Smiths and Simply Red.”

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne:

    Yes she is.

  37. 37.

    Schlemazel Khan

    This bends the arc of justice just a tiny bit more, thank you Mr. President.

    Imagine what this guy could have done if the GOP were not a hive of villainy and scum.

  39. 39.

    The Dangerman

    @Poopyman:

    ….President Trump?

    Trump said this morning that the Pound taking a shit was good for his own wallet; guessing that won’t play will in Peoria (and presumably ends any possibility he’s elected to office in the UK).

  40. 40.

    Keith G

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: I don’t think he’s the greatest president, as two others did truly magnificent (though not error free) jobs while this country was facing horrendous existential threats.

    Obama’s second term has packed on so much value-added progress, that he certainly deserves to be considered in the top three let alone the top five.

  42. 42.

    Brachiator

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne:

    That’s why Bernie’s phony baloney fraudulent revolution isn’t a revolution – it’s a white people tantrum. It’s just the other side of the angry white people coin.

    I don’t think that Bernie’s revolution was entirely fraudulent. Out here in California I saw plenty of female and nonwhite Bernie supporters. And Bernie was warmly embraced by a significant number of Latinos. It was cool to see drawings of him making him a kind of Pancho Villa.

    I agree with you about the power of the Obama Coalition. And I would agree that Bernie could not seal the deal with many people, but this was more a result of his narrow economic reductionism. But I reject the overly simplistic idea that Bernie’s appeal was “just the other side of the angry white people coin.”

  43. 43.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @Keith G:

    If you’re talking FDR, I disagree. He had 4 terms to work with, a majority Congress to work with whom he compromised with to sell out women and minorities, and interned thousands of Americans based on their ethnicity.

  44. 44.

    LAO

    @Humboldtblue: Michelle Obama is a national treasure.

    Any idea what Bill’s going to be called? I know that you keep the title of President for life — but that’s awfully confusing. Is he, going to be the “First Gentlemen” (that sucks — FGOTUS)? What are we supposed to call him?

  45. 45.

    Linnaeus

    Well, at least we’ve got something nice to cheer us up on this gloomy Friday. Well done.

  46. 46.

    Schlemazel Khan

    @LAO:
    My guess is the rotten prick was chiding you for apologizing to one of_them_ and trying to instill some white pride in you so that you would know you don’t have to be polite to your inferiors if you would just join with the Trumpwaffen.

  48. 48.

    Miss Bianca

    @LAO: Damn. What a dickhead. Well, have a nice life, dickhead, in the hellhole that progressive America has become. Don’t let the door hit you on the ass as you shuffle off this mortal coil. On the other hand, do. Do let the door hit you on the ass and launch you into eternity with one final indignity.

  50. 50.

    Mnemosyne

    @LAO:

    Not that I have any say in it, but I’m fine with “First Gentleman.” FGOTUS is a little unwieldy, but FLOTUS always sounded a little … unpleasant to me. Like, toilet-related.

  52. 52.

    Cacti

    @Humboldtblue:

    I don’t see anything that provides details on the impending alliance between the two Irelands,
    Scotland and the Welsh — led by dreamboat chicken man Joe Allen — and plans to invade England one last time to kick their pasty, tea-swilling half-breed Norman laybout asses once and for all!

    Perfidious Albion never really cared for the Scots or Irish anyway.

    Long live the Celtic people (except for the Welsh whose membership is now revoked)!

  55. 55.

    Linnaeus

    @Brachiator:

    I’m with you on this. Sanders’s campaign is indicative of some ongoing shifts that the Democrats need to keep an eye on going forward, but his weaknesses as a campaigner and a politician became painfully obvious.

  56. 56.

    Mnemosyne

    @Brachiator:

    It’s tricky, because there are Bernie supporters — even enthusiastic ones — and BernieOrBusters. The general run of supporters during the primary was more diverse in both age and race than the rump that’s currently making themselves the 2016 edition of the PUMAs.

    Who, not incidentally, were also overwhelmingly white.

  57. 57.

    Uncle Ebeneezer

    I first read this as “Stone Mountain” which would have been Peak No-Fucks-Left-To-Give Obama making Southern heads explode. Still awesome though.

  62. 62.

    Linnaeus

    @Humboldtblue:

    plans to invade England one last time to kick their pasty, tea-swilling half-breed Norman laybout asses once and for all!

    As an aside, while watching the referendum results last night, I saw that Leave won the Hastings council. I figure they’re still pissed off about William the Conqueror.

  63. 63.

    JanieM

    @Tara the Antisocial Social Worker: I’m old enough to remember when a gay kid (me) could grow up without knowing there was such a thing as gay-ness. I can’t believe how far we’ve come, and I don’t take it for granted for one single second.

  65. 65.

    laura

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: no, it’s not a phony revolution. It’s a demand to revisit the New Deal-the hallmark of the Democratic party platform for decades. It worked and can/should work again to rebuild this nations infrastructure,return to progressive taxation and it’s about Dann time.
    And yes, I’m voting for Hillary.
    I’ll be spending some time in the WPA rock garden tomorrow contemplating this bs divisiveness and think about FDR’S first 100 days-because a gal can dream.

  66. 66.

    burnspbesq

    @Humboldtblue:

    Can we still love Joe Allen, he’s the Welsh Xavi for the Reds?

    Hell, you cam still love Ashley Williams, if you’re enough of a masochist.

  67. 67.

    Emma

    @Miss Bianca: Except that it might be right now a terrible problem for Scotland. This is from Bijan Persia, who is, as I understand it, a dual citizen:

    I mean, it probably will. But is it a good idea? Or, at least the lesser evil?

    That’s hard to say. It depends on whether the EU decides to fuck with the UK. If Scotland could get a fast track EU membership, it might make sense.

    EXCEPT that the Euro is still a huge problem. The Eurozone, under current fiscal policy, is broken and esp risky for small countries.

    Scotland still has, potentially, more power inside the UK than inside the EU, and is probably economically better off in spite of Boris’s best efforts to date.
    Now, the crop of idiots who got us into the situation have plenty of time and the clear ability to make things worse.

    Obviously, Scotland leaving would be terrible for the UK. But I think, on balance, it would still be terrible for Scotland. But things are terrible now.

    The biggest issue is currency, which IIRC, was a big issue over the defeated independence vote.

  70. 70.

    hovercraft

    This is a great day for the LGBT community and all those who have worked together with them to get the full citizenship and recognition we all deserve.

    “They told us we wouldn’t get here. And there were those who said that we would get here only over their dead bodies, (Well. Yes, sir. Talk) but all the world today knows that we are here and we are standing before the forces of power in the state of Alabama saying, “We ain’t goin’ let nobody turn us around.” (Yes, sir. Speak) [Applause]”
    “Once more the method of nonviolent resistance (Yes) was unsheathed from its scabbard, and once again an entire community was mobilized to confront the adversary. (Yes, sir) And again the brutality of a dying order shrieks across the land. Yet, Selma, Alabama, became a shining moment in the conscience of man. If the worst in American life lurked in its dark street, the best of American instincts arose passionately from across the nation to overcome it.”

    “I know you are asking today, “How long will it take?” (Speak, sir) Somebody’s asking, “How long will prejudice blind the visions of men, darken their understanding, and drive bright-eyed wisdom from her sacred throne?” Somebody’s asking, “When will wounded justice, lying prostrate on the streets of Selma and Birmingham and communities all over the South, be lifted from this dust of shame to reign supreme among the children of men?” Somebody’s asking, “When will the radiant star of hope be plunged against the nocturnal bosom of this lonely night, (Speak, speak, speak) plucked from weary souls with chains of fear and the manacles of death? How long will justice be crucified, (Speak) and truth bear it?” (Yes, sir) I come to say to you this afternoon, however difficult the moment, (Yes, sir) however frustrating the hour, it will not be long, (No sir) because “truth crushed to earth will rise again.” (Yes, sir) How long? Not long, (Yes, sir) because “no lie can live forever.” (Yes, sir) How long? Not long, (All right. How long) because “you shall reap what you sow.” (Yes, sir)”
    “How long? Not long, because the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice.”

    Martin Luther King, Jr

    There is still work to do but every one of these firsts get us further along that road.

  71. 71.

    Mnemosyne

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    It’s equally as polite to address him as “Mr. Clinton.” We don’t have titles of nobility here, so “Mr. President” isn’t necessary.

    Though now I’m kind of liking “Madam and Mr. President Clinton” when addressing them together. I wonder if Miss Manners will weigh in.

  73. 73.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @laura:

    Why hasn’t Bernie talked about that then? He’s been whining about the DNC for the last 4 months. Did I just imagine the last 8 years of Obama pushing this country to the left virtually single handedly (with Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid’s) help and GOP obstructionism? What was Bernie fucking Sanders doing all that time? Oh right, calling for someone to primary Obama. Miss me with Bernie Sanders and his bullshit calls for shit he wants but hasn’t been arsed to do.

  74. 74.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Brachiator:

    It is amazing how President Obama has devoted a significant part of his term in office explicitly expanding the idea of “We the people” to be so manifestly inclusive.

    Yes. That moment in his second inaugural address when he name-checked “Selma, Seneca Falls, and Stonewall” was not only great oratory* but also a blueprint for the last years of his presidency (and, I daresay, for a significant chunk of his post-presidency).

    * (Good oratory can become great oratory with Apt Alliteration’s Artful Aid.)

  75. 75.

    Keith G

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: Yes, he certainly had flaws in both his process and his policy outcomes. None the less, he radically changed for the better the relationship between citizens and the federal government as well as doing a masterful job of getting this country and our allies into a better position to fight fascism.

  76. 76.

    Humboldtblue

    @burnspbesq: Well, Williams doesn’t play for Liverpool so whatever. In fact, the Reds just turned down $8 mill for Allen from Swansea who wants their sexy midfielder back among the copper miners and Kloppo doesn’t want to let him go, at least not at that price.

  78. 78.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Baud: Yeah, that occurred to me as I hit ‘post’. My point was just that as far as I know, once a President, one is always “Mr President”. Pretty certain that is correct.

  79. 79.

    LAO

    @Miss Bianca: Well, you know, the conversation took place in Manhattan, New York — a well known bastion of red, conservative, beliefs. Oh, wait…

    @Mnemosyne: Honestly, I nominate you to have a say in naming the first male “first spouse” (FSOTUS?) — nah, that doesn’t work either.

    @OzarkHillbilly: I know, that’s why I think its up to up to us to come up with a catchy nickname. (And, I’m super bored today and too depressed to scan the interwebs).

  83. 83.

    hovercraft

    @Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporate Shill:
    And he’s only doing it because he is a closeted gay man and Michelle is transgender and those girls are not their kids because they look nothing like either on of them !!!!!!

    Yes this is an actual conspiracy that someone forwarded to me last year.

  84. 84.

    Shell

    Well fuck. Looks like the Brexit vote has prodded Texas into meeping about secession again. For Christ sake, just leave already. Enjoy your renewed Freedoms! At least until the next hurricane hits.

  85. 85.

    smith

    It’s a nice counterpoint to the Stonewall designation that the new Miss Missouri is an out lesbian. In a few years this will be commonplace enough it won’t even make the news.

  86. 86.

    Mnemosyne

    @hovercraft:

    IIRC, one of King’s daughters was a Fox News commentator years ago and said some stupid things about how she knew her father would have been against gay rights, only to be corrected by her mother, who knew how vital Bayard Rustin’s contributions were to the Civil Rights Movement and said so. I’m guessing there were some awkward Thanksgivings after that.

  88. 88.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @LAO:

    What are we supposed to call him?

    As long as we don’t go with that stupid “First Dude” Todd Palin thing, I’m not too fussy.

  93. 93.

    Cacti

    @srv:

    They blame Obama for their political triumph.

    The right wing mind is such a fascinating web of contradictions.

  98. 98.

    Baud

    @srv: Wait, so you’re saying that old joke that Obama should tell people not to drink Drano would actually work?!!!

  100. 100.

    Mnemosyne

    @Humboldtblue:

    I’m thinking of it because in the later “Anne of Green Gables” books, she marries a doctor, which then made her “Mrs. Dr. Blythe” in those days (late 1800s Canada). And if you’re addressing an envelope to a couple with the same last name and the woman is a doctor, you address it as “Dr. and Mr. Blythe.”

    So, actually, it would probably be “President and Mr. Clinton” if you were addressing both of them together.

  101. 101.

    Ridnik Chrome

    I spent about an hour reading comments on the London Times. Amazing how many people (who I assume voted Leave) seem to think this is all going to work out swimmingly. They believe the EU can be bullied into giving the UK favorable terms, that Scotland won’t leave the UK, and that even if they do, the UK will be better off without them. Even if a British withdrawal from the EU was managed in the best possible way it would still be painful, and with someone like Boris Johnson running things I expect it will be a complete and utter disaster. Bad policy implemented in the worst possible way.

  103. 103.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @Brachiator:

    People of color and women went more than 3:1 for Hillary. His rallies in Baltimore and DC were all white. So..

  104. 104.

    LAO

    @OzarkHillbilly: Alright, I’ll drop it. (I expect that he will be referred to either Mr. Clinton or President Clinton (you are correct, the title of President is for life).

  105. 105.

    Miss Bianca

    @srv: @Baud: Slightly to paraphrase from last night “Don’t REMAIN, Britons..and for God’s sake *don’t* drink a bottle of Woolite each!”

    Nice to see we American WASPs come by our racism honestly – straight import from the Old Country.

  106. 106.

    hovercraft

    @Mnemosyne:
    That’s actually his niece Alveda King and she still works there. Total right winger. Her cousins have been known to give her the side eye over her pronouncements.

  108. 108.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Mnemosyne:

    I guess you could go with a nice gender-neutral SPOTUS (Spouse of the President ….)

    That sounds vaguely medical, but none of the POTUS-FLOTUS-SCOTUS acronyms makes for a lovely-sounding word :-)

  111. 111.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @smith: Miss Missouri? No no no, we don’t have any gays in Missouri, except for St Louis and Kansas City which she must be from one or the other, and if she wants to be Miss St Louis that’s OK with me but a Miss Missouri should represent the whole God, Guns and Guts state, not those 2 degenerate cess pools of immorality.

  113. 113.

    Miss Bianca

    @Emma: Oh, I didn’t say it was a great idea, necessarily, Scottish independence…just that a lot of people would welcome a chance to revisit the issue.

  116. 116.

    hovercraft

    @srv:
    Yes I’m going to believe Nigel Farage, Obama’s approval rating was 73 in April. Now while they did not like his voicing an opinion, they also said that his opinion would not swat them one way or the other. Get your facts straight.

  117. 117.

    gwangung

    @Brachiator:

    You keep saying this. Reality contradicts you.

    No, it doesn’t.

    Don’t conflate Sanders supporters with Bernie bros. That’s something Sanders supporters consistently said, and I’m willing to take them at their word, since it’s quite well supported by behavior at the caucuses and state gatherings, where there were at least two distinct groups with drastically different behaviors.

  118. 118.

    Keith G

    @Shell: I am sure you are smarter on this topic then you sound.

    Well fuck. Looks like the Brexit vote has prodded Texas into meeping about secession again. For Christ sake, just leave already. Enjoy your renewed Freedoms! At least until the next hurricane hits.

    This is not reflective of Texas, it is reflective of a minority within a minority of Texans. That would be exactly the same as somebody in Europe saying, “Well fuck. The Americans want to go over and bomb Syria into the Stone Age.”

    Do you want to bomb Syria into the Stone Age?

    Do a majority of Americans want to bomb Syria into the Stone Age?

    I didn’t think so.

  119. 119.

    Mnemosyne

    @hovercraft:

    Ah, okay — I knew it was a relative, and I mostly remembered Mrs. King immediately jumping in like, Uh, yeah, no. Couldn’t be more wrong.

  121. 121.

    Cacti

    I do feel genuinely sorry for the British youngs who just saw so many of their opportunities voted away by crotchety olds, still mourning a lost empire that’s never returning.

    Johnson may promise them the world’s loveliest walled garden of a country, but it a walled garden it will be.

  123. 123.

    Brachiator

    @Mnemosyne:

    Though now I’m kind of liking “Madam and Mr. President Clinton” when addressing them together.

    I don’t think this quite works. It implies some equality between the two, which is absolutely incorrect and inappropriate.

    But I wonder whether protocol people are working on this. You have not only the issue of First Gentleman (or whatever) as well as the issue of a former president spouse. But I would think that the dignity of the office of the (sitting) president takes precedence.

  124. 124.

    hovercraft

    @Ridnik Chrome:
    I think as the EU erupts Obama must say to himself that he’s glad to getting out of there soon. These conservative governments all screwed themselves with their devotion to austerity, which stymied growth, so that when this refugee crisis began it was easy for the right wingers were able to scape goat them as the cause of all their problems. Now these chickens are all coming home to roost, Merkel is in trouble, Cameron’s out, Sarkozy will have to demagogue his was past LePen to get back in next year. The IMF and the EU have created this pain and are finally waking up but it may be too little to late. A good time to get the hell out of Dodge.

  126. 126.

    Shell

    What are we supposed to call him?

    Ive always liked ‘Guy in charge of explaining stuff.’

  127. 127.

    Miss Bianca

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: And that sit-in on the floor of the House? That filibuster in the Senate? All those congresspeople standing up for gun legislation? Where was Bernie Sanders? What incredibly important people’s business was he involved with that he couldn’t take more than a moment for a photo op or a tweet to check in?

    I’m not going to say that the man is an out-and-out fraud, a grifter like Donald Trump. To his credit, he’s not that. But, like Donald Trump, I thought he’s fallen into the trap of buying his own hype. He thinks that just by virtue of being Bernie!Sanders! he’ll be presiding over some kind of great progressive salvation. But like those Christians who think that faith alone will save them, he seems kind of to have forgotten that “good works” are what really counts when it comes to that progressive salvation. I don’t see him involved in a lot of “good works” right now.

  128. 128.

    NorthLeft12

    @jeffreyw: Sad to hear. I must have read that book about twenty times. Full Metal Jacket was very, very loosely based on that book. I believe Mr. Herr served as one of the writers for that movie.

  129. 129.

    Ruckus

    @LAO:
    Could we call him, Bill?
    Or ex president Clinton?
    Or First Gentleman? I go for this, it is consistent, it is his role for her time in office, and would be the “title” to the job he would currently hold.

  130. 130.

    Schlemazel Khan

    @Keith G:
    Well, my government did it so it was done in my name.

    I’ll speak against it but I will not tell them they are wrong because at one level they are not wrong.

    Perhaps texit is not the will of the people there or their government but that is to be seen. In the meantime the duty of sane Texans is to oppose the crazy as much as possible.

  131. 131.

    Mnemosyne

    Since this is a semi-etiquette thread, I have a small conundrum. When my brother was terminally ill last year, I got to know his almost-stepdaughters reasonably well, and one of them has now graduated from high school, so I’d like to send her a gift card. I gave my actual nephew $100 for the same occasion, and they’re still friends. Should I give her the exact same amount? I was leaning towards $75 but I don’t want to look cheap.

  133. 133.

    ? Martin

    @laura:

    It’s a demand to revisit the New Deal-the hallmark of the Democratic party platform for decades. It worked and can/should work again to rebuild this nations infrastructure,return to progressive taxation and it’s about Dann time.

    But there are other elements in there that go unacknowledged. The New Deal was in many ways also a differential power construct, one that took power and taxes that women, people of color, and other groups should have received benefits from and piled them on white males. The reason why the New Deal was so great for you and I was because it wasn’t great at all for black people, women to some degree, etc. Only about 10% of WPA hires were women, and they were mostly single. Social Security wasn’t open to many blacks until the mid-50s. And the kind of infrastructure that Sanders is calling for is mostly antiquated in the current global economy. It’s a fine top-line message, but the specifics are completely wrong. And that’s dangerous to get people hopeful about something that can never be delivered on.

    So much of what we look at longingly was only possible because we were exploiting some group or another to deliver on that result. Now, it was a MUCH softer form of that than what opponents of the time were calling for, but if you roll it forward to today, it looks a lot like how the GOP approach economic problems. Even Sanders is calling for a level of nativism with his anti-trade focus that will likely not deliver any real benefits to US citizens, but will deny opportunities for developing nations. Economics isn’t zero-sum – you can create policies where everyone loses economically (see Brexit).

    The problem with ‘progressive’ taxation is that few people have bothered to define what needs to be taxed. Its looking increasingly the case that there is a massive tax blind spot in this country which is laborless productivity, a concept that couldn’t exist in any meaningful way before the digital revolution, and which we have no mechanism to address because all of our tax conventions are centered around labor. It’s as if our tax structure was centered on horses and hay before the rise of the automobile and we kept arguing over whether to tax horse owners and hay buyers (the GOP position) or horse breeders and hay growers (the Dem position), with no discussion or acknowledgement that cars had come along and made both of those less relevant to the economy.

    Sanders isn’t wrong in demanding a revolution – that’s what UK just did. But he has no concept of what the revolution needs to accomplish (as the UK voters fail as well). So because those are disconnected, it just comes off as some kind of well-intentioned anarchy. Just blow shit up until things get better as though any day now Syria will emerge as paradise. Entropy is a real concept. It’s foundational to all physical laws. Shit will naturally fall apart if you don’t actively work to hold it together. That’s why infrastructure spending is always needed, but its also why understanding the consequences of an action and opportunity costs is so important and why falling back on ideological platitudes is so dangerous. It may have felt good to vote to leave, to feel that you reclaimed some sense of power, to take control, but setting yourself on fire is also an expression of control. It’s just has really fucking bad outcomes. What’s so discouraging about the Trump and Sanders movements, and not just the Brexit leave campaign but also the idiotic political stunt by the UKs GOP to advance the referendum to appease the UKs Tea Party, is that it’s all so goddamn ignorant of actual consequences to actual people and only concerned with reinforcing ideological ideas rather than examining whether any of this will go any fucking good for anyone. Everyone is entering these decisions with good intentions and all of them produce just catastrophically bad outcomes.

    Hell is paved with good intentions.

  138. 138.

    Miss Bianca

    @Shell: o/t, but I think the word “meeping” is the funniest word ever. Altho’ this, of course, is what I think of when I hear it…

  139. 139.

    Tripod

    @Ridnik Chrome:

    Victory = the home nations crawling back to the EU under worse terms than the UK got in the first place.

    The Irish press isn’t reporting this in terms of re-unification, that’s a NI issue. This is their largest trading partner going bonkers and dumping a bucket of liquid shit into their laps.

  141. 141.

    JanieM

    @Mnemosyne: From the “etiquette” standpoint I’d just give her $100. You can think of it as “$100 is the amount I give to young graduates I care about.” I have this question in my mind sometimes as between my actual relatives and the offspring of close friends. To worry that they might be comparing and expecting a sliding scale (is that what you’re worrying about?) seems like a step too far in the direction of rating unquantifiable connections by the numbers.

    My 2 cents. So to speak. :-)

  142. 142.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Mnemosyne: My youngest has been with the same young lady for almost 10 years, good times and bad, They are not married but at Xmas and her birthday we send her a little something tho not as much as we send my son. The reality is we are under no obligation to send her anything at all, we do because she really is a sweet gal.

    Send what you feel like and screw appearances. It is your gift to a person you care about. Nobody has the right to say anything one way or the other.

  143. 143.

    Miss Bianca

    @LAO: God, could you *imagine* if one of our so-called correspondents got after The Donald that way? Or Paul Ryan? “Wait a minute, you *said* this. You said it!”

  144. 144.

    Brachiator

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne:

    People of color and women went more than 3:1 for Hillary. His rallies in Baltimore and DC were all white. So..

    What, he sent a replicant to substitute for him in California?

    @gwangung:

    Don’t conflate Sanders supporters with Bernie bros.

    I explicitly said, “Bernie is not defined soley by Berniebros.” We don’t have any argument on this point.

  147. 147.

    Mnemosyne

    @Miss Bianca:

    Our oldest cat is sometimes called “Mr. Meeps” because he has the Maine Coon tendency to have a very tiny meow wrapped inside a very large cat.

    @JanieM:

    The slightly complicating factor is that I’ve only known her for about a year, so I don’t want to embarrass her and have her be like, Why is this virtual stranger giving me $100?

    On the other hand, it’s pretty hard to insult people with money these days, at least on the “too much” end of the scale.

  148. 148.

    LAO

    @Mnemosyne: I second Iowa Old Lady. $100 dollars to the almost step-niece, unless to the additional $25 impacts you.

    ETA: Just saw you additional comment. Not sure we can embarrass teenagers with cash. But seriously, if it *is too much*, it’s always better to err on the side of generosity.

  151. 151.

    Miss Bianca

    @? Martin: thanks for saying this so I didn’t have to (again). You make the point far more cogently and elequently than I could ever hope to.

  152. 152.

    JanieM

    @Mnemosyne: Yeah, these days, unless the family is well off, the money is likely to be welcome, especially to a high school grad. My kids’ old babysitter’s eldest used my graduation gift to help buy his laptop for college. He was just glad of the help, I think, and in any case not as attuned to the nuances that might cause us older folks to hesitate. Then again, everyone’s different, so who knows. I still think — might as well be generous if it’s an option.

  153. 153.

    Enhanced Voting Techinques

    @LAO: The only sutable reply to that type of person is to ask “so why is so hard for you white folks to clap in rythem to a music beat, and what’s with plaid pants?”

  154. 154.

    JanieM

    @JanieM: I don’t mean money *wouldn’t* be welcome to someone who is well off…..that came out a little garbled but I don’t have time to edit it, and anyhow I suppose what I meant was clear enough.

  155. 155.

    Brachiator

    @Mnemosyne:

    Should I give her the exact same amount? I was leaning towards $75 but I don’t want to look cheap.

    Do you get along well with the almost-stepdaughter?

    Send what feels right to you (and of course, what you can comfortably give).

  157. 157.

    Mnemosyne

    Thanks, all! I’m actually sending it in the form of a Target gift card, which is easier to mail cross-country and I’m assuming will be welcome for college prep.

  158. 158.

    Mnemosyne

    @Betty Cracker:

    I guess I’m a little worried that my nephew will be like “WTF? Why did she get the same as me?” but (a) I don’t think he’s that petty even if he is 18 on Monday and (b) he’s getting another $50 for his birthday, so he’ll still end up ahead.

  159. 159.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @laura:

    You should probably also educate yourself on how Obama has improved this country’s energy infrastructure and has redistributed wealth all without any noticeable input or help from mediocre Bernie fucking Sanders, instead of trying to erase his legacy using Bernie math and whitewashing.

    The Nation He Built.

  160. 160.

    burnspbesq

    @Cacti:

    the world’s loveliest walled garden

    Tell me this isn’t where the thread turns into an iPhone v. Android rant-fest.

  161. 161.

    burnspbesq

    @Brachiator:

    Bernie is not defined soley by Berniebros

    Wishful thinking on your part. A candidate is who his/her highest visibility supporters say he/she is.

  162. 162.

    J R in WV

    I have to say, given his behavior the past very few weeks, Bernie is very well defined by the worst of the BernieBros. He is embarrassing. He is un-Democratic, which is appropriate because he isn’t a Democrat.

    He had a chance to join the party, to boost his former rival, the winner of the primary contests, the next president of the united States, and he has so far pissed all over those opportunities.

    So very done with the mean-spirited S O B.

    ETA: Very happy with our Android devices! Inexpensive, well crafted software, the phones appear to be very sturdy. The tablet gave it up when it fell off the counter, but that’s kinda my fault. I’ll be buying another.

    ;-)

  163. 163.

    Quinerly

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    I have lived in one of those cess pools since 1982.? Soulard in St. Louis! Translation of “Soulard” is the fat under the pig….it’s also slang for “gutter drunk.” As I recall, a few years back,you posted a wonderful You Tube music video on an open thread. We both must know that fine gentleman, Charlie Pfeffer. Small BJ world! Been meaning to work that in the conversation but have been too busy lurking for 9 or so years.

  164. 164.

    Brachiator

    @burnspbesq: RE: Bernie is not defined soley by Berniebros

    A candidate is who his/her highest visibility supporters say he/she is.

    This is as nutty as suggesting that Hillary Clinton must be “crooked” just because Trump tries to stick that label on her, and the media vapidly repeats it.

  165. 165.

    Terry chay

    @Brachiator: Oakland ca was white also. It was pretty much only LA that was multicultural. I think he had good outreach or there was some sort of social networking founder effect going on there that wasn’t true anywhere else.

    FWIW, every single Bernie bro I knew personally was white, mostly male. I know that isn’t the case everywhere (the girl who was hit by a Clinon’s supporter in Albany looked south Asian) but it is overwhelmingly so, especially given the makeup of the Democratic Party.

  166. 166.

    Peter VE

    I went into the Stonewall a couple years ago to have a drink. Stench of stale beer, and not able to make anything more complicated than a G & T. Go to celebrate the past, go elsewhere for a drink.

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