Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

Red lights blinking on democracy’s dashboard

Washington Post’s Catch and Kill, not noticeably better than the Enquirer’s.

The choice is between normal and crazy.

The real work of an opposition party is to hold the people in power accountable.

The Giant Orange Man Baby is having a bad day.

Come on, media. you have one job. start doing it.

I am pretty sure Katy Tur wasn’t always such a bootlicking sycophant.

The rest of the comments were smacking Boebert like she was a piñata.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. keep building.

Peak wingnut was a lie.

The low info voters probably won’t even notice or remember by their next lap around the goldfish bowl.

Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.

Nothing says ‘pro-life’ like letting children go hungry.

Narcissists are always shocked to discover other people have agency.

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

Relentless negativity is not a sign that you are more realistic.

My years-long effort to drive family and friends away has really paid off this year.

Seems like a complicated subject, have you tried yelling at it?

Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

I was confident that someone would point it out and thought why not me.

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2016 / Elizabeth Warren & Hillary Clinton in Cincinnati

Elizabeth Warren & Hillary Clinton in Cincinnati

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Let’s see if this CNN clip will work (looks fine on my screen, but who knos the ways of FYWP?). Just in case, here’s the link.

Separate videos (where I saw this first) available at Mother Jones:

Hillary Clinton and Elizabeth Warren took a little trip to Ohio today to see the sights, do some antiquing, and eviscerate Donald Trump…

They have a pretty good buddy cop situation going on here. Maybe Clinton will make her VP after all?

Sigh. Why must y’all keep trying to steal my senior Senator? (Yes, I will most certainly reconcile myself if necessary, but I’d love to see Senator Warren leading the Senate under President Clinton.)

Local news outlet Cleveland.com:

… Standing under large art deco murals of workers at Cincinnati’s Union Terminal, Clinton and Warren called for regulations on Wall Street, punishing companies that send jobs overseas, making college debt-free and raising taxes on the rich…

“We’ve got to go big and we’ve got to go bold,” Clinton said to a crowd of hundreds, their loud cheers amplified in the cavernous terminal lobby. “We need to take the frustration, the fear, the anxiety and yes, the anger. And after we have vented it, we’ve got to work together.”

Clinton pledged: “I will not raise taxes on the middle class. But we are going to raise taxes on corporations and the wealthy.”

Clinton also said Trump “tried to turn a global economic challenge into an infomercial” when the billionaire businessman said the “Brexit” could help business at his Scottish golf course by lowering the value of the British pound against the dollar.

Warren, who is reportedly on the short list of possible Clinton VP picks, fulfilled a key role a Democratic running mate will have to play this year: repeatedly going on the attack against Trump.

“Donald Trump says he’ll make America great again. It’s right there, stamped on the front of his goofy hat. You want to see goofy? Look at him in that hat,” Warren said, referring to Trump’s repeated tweets calling her “goofy.”…

Mr. Pierce, at Esquire:

… This was the first time that Senator Professor Warren actively campaigned on the same stage as Hillary Rodham Clinton and, since SPW does nothing by half-measures, she threw herself into the event—and, therefore, into the campaign—with all the brio she brings to everything she does… As expected, she went to town on He, Trump. “Talk about goofy,” she said, turning his adjectival dagger around. “Have you seen him in that hat?”

“You know,” she said, “I could do this all day.” And likely will, sometime very soon…

The whole theme of the day was Stronger Together, and it might even work one day. It remains more difficult than it ought to be for HRC to cast herself in the role of populist champion; there’s still just too much history and too many fat honoraria checks in the way. (And, god help us, she should lose the part in her stump speech that seems to imply that she grew up hauling huge bolts of drapery material around the living room. Nobody’s buying it.) Those people who watch SPW and see only either a potential vice president, or an attack-dog fastened to the seat of He, Trump’s pants, are missing a considerable point. She’s also the connection to the party’s deepest current enthusiasms. Should HRC win, she is going to be considerably in debt to the other woman who was onstage Monday. SPW is out there to keep the nominee honest…

They looked like a ticket.

You had to give them that, although I still think it shouldn’t happen, and I’ve increasingly come to believe it won’t happen… These were two powerful, accomplished women, on stage at the same time, and with a common purpose, if distinctly different styles and methods of how to accomplish that purpose…

Reader Interactions

191Comments

  2. 2.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    It was a good day for women, hence the country and the world. We’ve been holding up half the sky, and today it feels like we’re finally being seen. Still too much reliance on men for our rights to be acknowledged, but, we’ll take it, and keep pushing forward. This is what a real revolution looks like.

  3. 3.

    dmsilev

    Nothing against Senator Warren, but I hope Secretary Clinton goes elsewhere for her VP pick. Firstly because I think Warren will be more effective and productive long-term as a Senator with a sharp focus on economic issues, whereas a veep has to be a second-fiddle player whose job it is to support the President. Secondly, MA has a Republican governor and I’m sure I’m not the only one who remembers the Coakley Campaign after Kennedy died. Losing a Senate seat and potentially control of the Senate is a pretty big downside risk.

  4. 4.

    magurakurin

    The more I hear men say things like Pierce did (shouldn’t happen, won’t happen) the more I think it will. Not that I have anything against Pierce or John Lewis, who recently said he wasn’t sure the country was ready for two women. But the more I hear that, the more I wonder if Hillary is just ready to say “fuck it, we’ll do it live.” It really seems like Warren wants to do this. And if Warren wants to do this, then all the talk about “she needs to stay in the Senate” is really just taking away her agency and isn’t a whole lot different from “she needs to stay in the kitchen.” I mean, if this happens, it will because both of these women want to do it. That much is clear. And if that is what they want to do, I say “fuck yeah, let’s do this.”

    And I stand by my statement that Clinton gets to make this pick. It is the nominee’s choice and I accept whoever she chooses, no question. The nominee deserves that, and she certainly deserves at least that.

  10. 10.

    Pogonip

    Hello, I am sorry to break in but usually readers here can answer questions. Can anyone here tell me how to find out how to report a life-threatening medical mistake in my state? I’d like to get on it ASAP before the medical moron in question kills somebody.

  11. 11.

    Felonius Monk

    I agree that Senator Professor Warren should remain in the Senate for the obvious reasons but I do love it when she gives the Trump a real wire brush job.

  12. 12.

    Cat48

    @AL Why? They made me tear up bc your,Senator just gave her a straight endorsement and did not hedge. I believed she really liked and respected Hillary. This means a lot to me bc liberals always hedge. They have to say she’s flawed, but she will do. I’m tired of that. I think she’s great and have always liked her and we all know she is fully qualified & ready on Day 1 for anything. I’m sorry. I think we should steal her! I’m tired of being rational & humoring Bernie, et al! They have chemistry!

  15. 15.

    gene108

    @magurakurin:

    Saying I think Warren is a much needed liberal voice in the Senate is not taking away her agency. It is stating an opinion, on a blog, based on not wanting to lose a very vocal, liberal, Senator to be Hillary’s running mate.

    As the Vice Presidency has been likened to a warm pitcher of spit, it is not actually a promotion.

  16. 16.

    Pogonip

    Regarding the actual topic, Clinton mentioned making college debt-free. I think college should also be made a Bona Fide Occupational Quality (BFOQ). One of the reasons it’s so expensive is most people feel, reasonably, that they HAVE to go. This would also help keep stupid people out of colleges.

  18. 18.

    Corner Stone

    Please no. We really need EW in the Senate. She has so much voice and so much power there.

  20. 20.

    Gvg

    Well people have upset me showing how racist the loud minority is the last 8 years so I am worried about the misogyny I am expecting to show the next 8 year so yeah I feel kind of cautious about a 2 women ticket.
    Hillary got a lot of flack about some things she said when losing to Obama 8 years ago and most of it was deserved but one of the comments about a black man couldn’t win the election I think, well I knew she was wrong but I didn’t take it as her being racist. I thought it was she thought the electorate still mostly was. Some pundit pointed out she had seen a lot of loses and was a little too defensive because of it? I am not as confident how it would go with 2 women as I was with Obama. I just don’t know.
    The problem of Massachusetts having a republic governor is pretty significant as we learned when Obama was elected. I’d prefer a non Senator.

  21. 21.

    magurakurin

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:

    Doesn’t say in that piece. But he calls Kaine the safe “do no harm” choice, which seems suspect from the guy who was pushing Bernie. Even with a solid liberal voice like Pierce there is a bit of “there needs to be some sausage” on the ticket in there. I mean, you are all for Bernie, but now it should be Kaine to be safe? I call bullshit. Fear of Female Planet more like. Fuck it, do it live. Two women. oh yeah. you heard that right, buster.

  22. 22.

    Pogonip

    @Felonius Monk: One of the 50. (No woman, even one who owns a shotgun, should ever hint at her location on the Internet.)

    If anyone knows a general procedure, that’d give me a hint as to where to start looking. I know that I complain to JCAH about the hospital employing Dr. Dimwit.

  24. 24.

    Prescott Cactus

    My thoughts have always been don’t lose a Dem Senator and allow a pick up by a Republican Governor. We might lose the Senate.

    If the dynamics of Clinton and Warren are magic, could we pick up that Senate seat somewhere else and perhaps a few more. That’s a pretty big gamble.

    If anything I hope Brexit will be a wake up to the folks in the USA. Votes have consequences.

  26. 26.

    Betty Cracker

    Looks like a “Bernie who?” thing to me. No matter where she lands, I hope Warren continues to play a prominent national role. She is wonderful.

  27. 27.

    Corner Stone

    @magurakurin:

    but now it should be Kaine to be safe? I call bullshit. Fear of Female Planet more like. Fuck it, do it live. Two women. oh yeah. you heard that right, buster.

    Beyond a couple women Senators, who would you suggest? Warren is right fucking out.

  29. 29.

    BruceFromOhio

    OK, it happens: Clinton picks Warren as VP. Mind you, I’m with the “let her stay in the Senate” crowd.

    Just game it out. What happens? Ijit Masshole governor appoints some dipshit. How long does said dipshit serve, the remainder of “SPW” (what the hell does that stand for, anyway?) term? Can the Mass of mass elect some other Warren wannabe to displace formerly appointed dipshit? Do other elections elsehwere offset the Dem line-up in the Senate? (Love to see Portman sent packing, fer shur) It’s a bet that the unbelievably awesome lineup of Clinton-Warren get enough people to the polls to tip the Senate.

    Meanwhile in the background, the skulking two-bit soulless ratfuck criminals work feverishly to griftspend Adelson and Koch dollars as quickly as possible before the jig is up, while Ann Coulter plots with Atlas Juggs to burn Freedoms Landing … oh wait.. crossed the streams there for a second, sorry .. now where was I … (gropes for reading glasses)

  30. 30.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    Taegan Goddard
    ‏@politicalwire

    Taegan Goddard Retweeted Taegan Goddard

    Possible GOP convention lineup:
    Monday: Sarah Palin
    Tuesday: Joe Arpaio
    Wednesday: Bobby Knight
    Thursday: Omarosa

    A black hole of DERP.

  31. 31.

    Corner Stone

    “Chris Christie’s ME-ME-ME” speech at Romney’s convention.
    HAHHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA

  32. 32.

    Felonius Monk

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.):

    the new senator will be in office within a few months.

    That’s right and given the often lackluster performance by the Democratic Party in MA and the fact they have a Rethug governor who will appoint an interim Senator from his party and then will likely run for the seat himself, it is pretty much a no-brainer that Sen. Warren stays in the Senate.

  33. 33.

    JPL

    Warren could fill several slots. My favorite would be the Supreme Court, but Treasury Secretary would be okay too. It’s more difficult to come up with positions, she couldn’t do.

  35. 35.

    Ruckus

    I think Senator Warren would make a great VP and I don’t want her to do so. She also makes a great senator and we need more of those. Many more of those. So losing one for the job of VP seems stupid. If there is another women out there who deserves to be VP, let’s have her. But there seem to be a few others that could fill the VP slot and who won’t be the senator from MA or anywhere else for that matter, and thinking long term who’s going to run when Clinton has finished her time? IOW I want competence in the WH and in congress, and in the SC.

  37. 37.

    magurakurin

    @gene108:

    As the Vice Presidency has been likened to a warm pitcher of spit, it is not actually a promotion.

    yet Warren seems to want the job. And I’m quite sure she understands the implication in the Senate. I totally get the argument about no Senators. I even agree with it. But it strikes me as funny that after hearing complaints from many quarters that the big problem with Clinton is she is too cautious, too calculating, and not willing to take risks…now, when it looks like she might make a bold, somewhat capricious choice based on heart not head….we hear complaints that she needs to be cautious and calculating.

    Like I said, I’m good with whoever she chooses. full stop.

  38. 38.

    Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)

    @BruceFromOhio: No, dipshit only serves until the special election, which in Massachusetts come along right quick. A few months. And we have an awfully good map this year. Nothing’s set, needless to say, but the likelihood is that we’ll get at least the four or five we’d need to take the Senate, and then some.

    @magurakurin:
    I’d go along with that. People have called for her forever to do something spontaneous and risky, and, now that it looks like she might, they all want her to back up and play it safe.

  39. 39.

    sinnedbackwards

    The media and commenters both downplay the generational angle. Think about it: the WW2 “greatest generation” provided presidents from 1960 to 1992. The “boomers” from 1992 to probably 2024 (stretching boomerdom only a smidge to include BHO). 32 years each.

    HRC now has the opportunity to elevate a younger person to stardom. Or to postpone the next generation’s sorting out to (probably) the 2024 primaries.

    I’m not at all sure which is better for the party.

  40. 40.

    gene108

    @magurakurin:

    I don’t have a problem with two women on the ticket. I have a concerns specifically with Warren and keeping control of the Senate.

    I think two women on the ticket would be cool.

  41. 41.

    NotMax

    @Pogonip

    Cannot point to a specific, but suggest dragging out the ol’ phone book, turning to the State Government pages (usually just before the white pages alphabetical listings) and looking for Department of Health or something similarly named.

    Also, the hospital itself may well have a patient ombudsman.

  42. 42.

    sdhays

    My head tells me that Warren should stay in the Senate and be the next Ted Kennedy, but I also really feel that “accentuating the differences” is the right play for this election, and Hillary couldn’t do better than Elizabeth Warren as her VP. Two wonky women against Trump and whatever piece of shit who’s so damaged he’s willing to share a ticket with him? It will stick that knife all the way through and out the other side of the Repuliklan Party.

    I think if Warren is VP, she will have a lot of influence inside the Executive Branch, perhaps especially on Treasury. She won’t be window dressing, and I don’t think Hillary would want her to be. So what we might lose in a legislative powerhouse, we would gain in a powerful influence inside the Executive Branch. Replacing her in the Senate is a bit nerve-wracking, but that’s what we get for betting on Coakley twice.

    A few months ago, I thought the idea of Elizabeth Warren as VP was silly. Now I think it’s almost silly to consider anyone else.

  44. 44.

    Felonius Monk

    @Pogonip: New York State has a procedure through the State Health Dept. that I believe allows you to file a complaint on-line. I would assume that many other states have similar procedures. So probably a State Health Dept. is the place to start.

  46. 46.

    gene108

    @magurakurin:

    I like the fact that Clinton is cautious and calculating. Heck, Obama’s was also cautious and calculating. Biden was a safe pick for VP.

  47. 47.

    dogwood

    I’ll get a lot of crap for this, but I watched that event and wasn’t that impressed. The media has made this election all about Trump, and Warren and Clinton pretty much did the same. Warren used to give Republicans hell, but now she only talks about Trump. Clinton made campaign promises that she can’t keep as long as Ryan is Speaker of the House, yet there was no real serious talk about how republicans have obstructed progress. And if democrats prioritize having some rabble rouser as VP over achieving a Senate majority, then we’ll get what we deserve.

  48. 48.

    magurakurin

    @Corner Stone: I’m sort of partial to Julian Castro, but Tim Kaine seems like a decent man and he is a long time friend and ally of the Clintons. Kaine is a Senator, too, but Virginia has Dem governor in Terry M. If it were actually me choosing, I’d probably go with Franken, because he would be a blast to have hanging around the house all the time. But I’ll say it again, whoever she picks, I’m on board. Every pick has upsides and downsides. There is no perfect pick or “right” pick.

  50. 50.

    FlyingToaster

    @BruceFromOhio: SPW = “Senator Professor Warren”.

    Charlie (like Anne Laurie, and me, for that matter) doesn’t want to give up a powerful Senator for a less powerful Veep.

    As someone who held her nose and voted for Coakley against Brown, but swore never again, I do NOT want to be visited with that kind of mess again. Because it will turn into one of the MA delegation vs. Governor Baker, and Baker will fucking win. Dammit.

    (Note, Senator Capuano or Senator McGovern would be REALLY nice to have; but I don’t think either could beat Baker this year.)

  55. 55.

    cokane

    ppl talk about the downside of being VP for Warren and there’s truth. But, it’s a great spot for the 2024 candidate to be. A Warren presidency, now that’d be pretty cool

  56. 56.

    BruceFromOhio

    @gene108: This is the challenge.

    The Senate: The factory of things that need to get done. The House is a lost cause, and may remain so for two or three cycles. Get the Senate back and moving, and the cycle starts anew.

    The General: WOW, what a ticket. Talk about running up the numbers. This would be a scorched earth campaign with the right folks holding the flamethrowers. Clinton and Warren are unstoppable, and Cincy looks like a test drive muhuhuhahahaha.

    So, what’s the bet? Steal a great senator to set fire to the Presidential ballot, and play the numbers for the Senate to go blue? Or play it safe, pick some other veep, and write a different narrative for bedtime stories between now and November?

    Either way, a long hot summer for the RNC. And that is cool.

  58. 58.

    dmsilev

    @Corner Stone: Speaking of Trump scams, the LA Times reported today on yet another one.

    Trump’s failed Baja condo resort left buyers feeling betrayed and angry

    Short version: Trump licensed his name to shady condo developer who took a bunch of deposits and never built anything. Trump-daughter helped market the properties to the victims. Trump-family walked away with a bunch of cash in licensing fees; victims lost tens of thousands of dollars each.

  60. 60.

    NotMax

    @sinnedbackwards

    1) LBJ pre-dated the generally understood membership in so-called “Greatest Generation” (born 1908), although the term does not reference any defined set of years of birth, but is rather a portmanteau invented by Tom Brokaw.

    2) Boomers refers to those born from 1946 – 1964, so Obama (born 1961) fits in there with no stretching required.

  63. 63.

    Ruckus

    @magurakurin:
    You say Senator Warren seems to want the job. Where did you get that feeling? She has stated she didn’t want to run for president so what makes her want the job of VP? I think she is a great democrat and wants Clinton to win, but I think she wants to stay in the senate. Lots of people aim pretty high in their career paths but still don’t shoot for the top position. She seems like one of those people, she likes where she is, she gets shit done, she has power because of who she is, what would she do as VP?

  64. 64.

    cokane

    Also, MA holds a quick election on Sen replacements, this is exactly what got doofus Scott Brown in there, but that was a kind of black swan event for Mass — an historically bad politician in Coakley

  65. 65.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @dmsilev: whereas a veep has to be a second-fiddle player whose job it is to support the President.

    Another big factor: I don’t think Warren would be particularly happy in the Loyal Number Two spot, not for long. And her outsized role in the Senate could last a very long time.

  66. 66.

    Mnemosyne

    Okay, off-topic, but I wanted to catch the Central and Eastern time zone Hamilmaniacs with this: a genealogist poked into Lin-Manuel’s mother’s side of the family and found a fascinating interracial love story.

    The least interesting part is that if you want to use the one-drop rule, African-Americans can claim LMM as one of their own, too. IOW, typical American mutt via Mexico and Puerto Rico.

  67. 67.

    magurakurin

    @Corner Stone: The truth is she has a lot of decent people to choose from. It’s fun to talk about all the angles, all the ins and outs, but I don’t see how we lose no matter who she picks. I get the Senate angst…Coakley put the fear in our hearts over that. And I don’t think people are being silly to be concerned about it, it is a real concern. But Coakley was a one off(okay, two off, she lost the governorship, too.) I mean, come on, it’s Mass…if Dems can’t hold a Senate seat there…?

  68. 68.

    Prescott Cactus

    @cokane:
    “SPW” (a new one for me) will be 75 years old in 2024.
    Bernie is now 74.
    John McCain will be 80 in August.

  71. 71.

    sdhays

    @dogwood: I think right now it’s appropriate to spend a lot of time talking about how terrible Trump is, especially since he and his party make it so easy. Scorch the earth, salt it, irradiate it, make it impossible for anything to grow. And then hammer the Democratic vision from Labor Day to Election Day while people are actually paying attention and establish a clear mandate in people’s minds.

  72. 72.

    Mnemosyne

    @Pogonip:

    What other people said, but it’s probably also worth contacting the hospital’s ombudsman and, if you don’t get the response you want, possibly your local consumer advocate (usually a local news person).

  73. 73.

    NotMax

    The only way I’d like to see Warren on the ticket as veep is if Trump chooses Scott Brown.

  74. 74.

    BruceFromOhio

    @dogwood: No crapping here. I did *not* watch the event, and am very tentative about this. Mind you, I’m in the “stay in the Senate” camp.

    Lady Luck favors the bold, and the ladies are definitely in the drivers seat. The snapshot of the moment of today’s Senate can change. Sometimes to get what you want you have to give something up. Blah blah blah, like I have anything to influence, these folks are going to do what they do. My job is to send Senator Portman packing for K Street so Senator Strickland can support President Clinton’s Supreme Court picks.

  75. 75.

    Anne Laurie

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.):

    Massachusetts has one of those instant election laws, I think, so if Warren resigns, the new senator will be in office within a few months.

    Yeah, but meanwhile it’ll be some Repub coatholder representing MA during the runup to the election. And then Sen. Coatholder will step aside for some ambitious Repub Masshole — quite possibly, I’m told, current Gov. Charlie ‘Chickenshit’ Baker, who’ll rise beyond his current low-risk position in no other way.

    I mean, Liz Warren is a really good senator. Very few people love the idea of an all-woman ticket more than this second-wave feminist, but I also hope Clinton doesn’t tap Sonia Sotomayor to be her VP, okay? There are more than two worthy young Democratic women who could do the job!

    Hell — how’s about Wendy Davis? If you want a bunch of nasty Repub revanchists to really show their arses on the national stage…

  77. 77.

    dogwood

    @Ruckus:
    I have to believe you are right. If Warren takes the VP slot then she isn’t as serious as I believe she is. Maybe this Twitter /Facebook adoration she gets has gone to her head, but I’d like to believe otherwise.

  79. 79.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @NotMax: Do please explain what I, born in the second half of 1964 to parents born in ’41 and ’43, have in common, generationally, with my aunt who was born in 1946.

  80. 80.

    Ruckus

    @cokane:
    In 8 yrs Senator Warren will be 75. She will have been in the senate for 11 yrs so she would have some level of seniority and with that a level of power she doesn’t have now. Knowing what I do about being her age (born less than a month apart) I couldn’t see myself giving up the senate for the job of president at this age. The job of retired sure, but not that of a senator.

  81. 81.

    magurakurin

    @Ruckus: Obviously we don’t know what she wants, but from things she has said, she has indicated an interest in the job if offered. But, the main point is, I do not believe she would take the offer is she didn’t want it. And at that point, who am I to tell what she should or shouldn’t do? Of course we will discuss it here on this blog, because that’s what we do. But, honestly, if she takes the job, she wants it…arguments about where she would be more effective are just academic…like on the fake slot machines…only for amusement purposes.

  82. 82.

    cokane

    @Prescott Cactus: a fair point, tho McCain did win his party’s nom at 72, Dole at 73, so it’s not ridiculous. I also think Warren is the best pick as VP for the primary job duty of that role — to be capable of being president immediately should the worst happen. I feel more confident in her than Castro or Kaine or Sherrod Brown or other candidates I’ve heard.

  83. 83.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    and while everything I’ve heard about Tim Kaine is pretty good— sounds like he’s a been a good, under the radar progressive who gets something of a bad rap– Please, no boring white guy.

    yours truly
    a Boring White Guy

  87. 87.

    hovercraft

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
    If she is ever runs for anything other than AG, her current job, I will raise money for her opponent, she is the absolute worst candidate ever. I could almost give her a pass for the governors race, MA has a habit of electing gop governors, but Scott Brown. No, the only reason we got rid of that moron is because Warren was a great candidate. If he had won the media and Wall St. would have kept him there forever. As it was they nearly drowned her in liberal MA.

  90. 90.

    Uncle Ebeneezer

    @magurakurin: Thanks for pointing out this perspective. It’s extremely easy to forget about the issues of agency (my male brain totally did), and it’s an important aspect to remember and consider.

  91. 91.

    The Ancient Randonneur

    Just imagine Dems taking control of the Senate and Senator Warren as Chair of the Senate Banking Committee. The VP slot, although a great honor, would pale in comparison to the good she could do for the country in as the Chair of that committee. Imagine her dressing down a few of those Wall Street CEO’s … but, I’ll just wait until Secretary Clinton makes her choice so I can work my heart out to get her elected.
    #IMWithHer

  92. 92.

    hovercraft

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne:
    It will be the most watched convention in history, and the most entertaining. The Dumpster will be able to truthfully make this claim, unfortunately for him that will not be a good thing. My hope is that he goes with the idea he floated, of speaking every night. Hopefully his ego won’t allow him to sit back and let someone else be the center of attention.

  93. 93.

    Mnemosyne

    @rikyrah:

    In his iTunes U course on the Civil War, David Blight spends a lot of time talking about the slow development of American slavery into the rigid “peculiar institution” it became by about the 1850s. It sounds like it wasn’t uncommon for interracial couples to move away from the more rigid slave states to the frontier where people didn’t really care as much.

    I’ve been reading a biography called “Dancing to the Precipice” about a French noblewoman who got driven out of France by the French Revolution. At one point, she and her family moved to New York state, where they were befriended by the Schulyers (in fact, Peggy was a particular friend of theirs). They had to buy slaves to help them work their farm because paid servants weren’t willing to live out on the frontier, so they went and talked to a young man they were interested in having work for them, he agreed to do it, and they went to his owner and bought him. The whole process was weirdly casual. This was in about 1799.

    (I haven’t quite gotten to the end of the American section, but flipping ahead, it looks like they ended up with about 4 slaves total and freed all of them before they went back to France.)

  95. 95.

    Anne Laurie

    @efgoldman:

    Cosmo boy is tanned and ready desperate.

    Fixed.

    Speaking of which, the normally gentlemanly Spousal Unit, hearing about Scotty’s attempts to curry favor with the GOP nominee, said “What, Warren took so much of Brown’s manhood he’s offering himself as Trump’s buttboy?”

  97. 97.

    Ruckus

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    You both live in interesting times?
    Really it’s all bullshit anyway, we are products of our parents and our times. One of my siblings was born 6 yrs before me and we had little in common other than parents until she was past SS age and I was knocking at that door.

  98. 98.

    Thymezone

    Clinton-Warren is an unbeatable ticket. Trump will take down more than a couple of senators when he goes down in flames. Just name her and go for it. Won’t be sorry.

  100. 100.

    gogol's wife

    @Ken:

    Trump in today’s NYTimes talking about how no one should be allowed to speak at the convention unless they show absolute fealty to him reminds me of one person, and one person only — V. V. Putin.

  101. 101.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Thymezone: yeah, all Senate votes are interchangeable. Who needs Elizabeth Warren when we’ll still have Chuck Schemer, Tom Carper, Claire McCaskill, Joe Mancin….

  102. 102.

    Ruckus

    @magurakurin:
    You are right of course, if she wants it and is offered it she should do what she wants, but from a political standpoint (OK my political standpoint!) it’s the wrong thing to do. She will lose power and I think influence, and I don’t think that would suit her.

  103. 103.

    burnspbesq

    @Pogonip:

    Hold up a sec. I think I have a pretty clear idea of what you meant, but BFOQ is a legal term of art with a very specific meaning.

  104. 104.

    dogwood

    @efgoldman:
    Well what she says on the Senate floor will be seen by CPAN junkies and Warren’s fans. What she says on the campaign trail is seen by a larger and much broader audience.

  105. 105.

    sinnedbackwards

    @cokane: Consider the possibility that in a new, more progressive Senate, she is the vote, or even the individual, to derail Charlie Schumer.

  106. 106.

    J R in WV

    @Pogonip:

    Who knew you were female? ;-)

    Go to Google, type “your state name” Medical board. If you dn’t get anything directly, look and see what the “medical board” calls itself in “your state”.

    Here I typed West Virginia Medical and Google brought that + board up to the top suggestion. When I clicked it, turns out it is correctly the W V Board of Medicine.

    Then I used Minnesota medical board, it found the “Minnesota Board of Medical Practice”.

    Maybe that’s enough for you to go on.

    A word of caution, between HIPPA privacy and medical closeness, be very careful about accusations unless it is your health you are talking about. Hell, be careful regardless, maybe get a lawyer first for whoever may have been harmed.

  108. 108.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    I think we can interpret this as “we got nothin'” from Trey Howdie

    Ben Brody
    ‏@ BenBrodyDC
    Scoop: Benghazi Committee Republicans to issue their report Tuesday,

  111. 111.

    dmsilev

    @hovercraft: The announcement of the vice-Trump will also be interesting (and I think there’s a non-zero chance that Trump will require the name change as a condition of nomination, sort of how some monarchs would choose a successor and adopt them so they were of the “right” family). I’m actually a bit surprised we haven’t seen any lists leak from the Trump campaign. Since they aren’t exactly running a finely-tuned well-oiled leak-proof machine, it could mean that there isn’t actually a short list yet…

  114. 114.

    NotMax

    @hovercraft

    It may attract the most eyeballs (population increase) but surpassing “most watched” in terms of percentage of the audience is an open question.

  115. 115.

    dogwood

    @dmsilev:
    Don’t you think Newt Gingrich wants the job. Or maybe Mike Huckabee? I doubt there is much thought going into the selection. Trump will just pick some sucker and that will be it.

  116. 116.

    dmsilev

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Truly nothing would be issuing a report this Friday (just before the long holiday weekend). They might think they have something that with care and feeding could turn out to be a marketable fake scandal. Given Gowdy’s track record, betting on “giant nothingburger” is probably reasonable.

  118. 118.

    nutella

    @dmsilev:

    I’m actually a bit surprised we haven’t seen any lists leak from the Trump campaign. Since they aren’t exactly running a finely-tuned well-oiled leak-proof machine, it could mean that there isn’t actually a short list yet…

    I wouldn’t be surprised if they had started looking at potential VPs but everybody they wanted to consider had an unfortunate schedule conflict. Except Chris Christie. He’s got plenty of time.

  119. 119.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Pogonip:
    @NotMax:

    Also, you might want to email Richard Mayhew privately. He’s an insurance guy but seems to know his way around the whole complex of medical specialties, and could probably give you some useful direction.

  121. 121.

    magurakurin

    @Ruckus: I think you can make a good case that your point of view is true. And to add to it, as we have seen just now in Ohio, Warren doesn’t actually have to be on the ticket to be a wonderful and powerful asset/campaigner for Clinton. I put my virtual 100 dollar “only in my mind” bet on Julian Castro. He was the 2 to 1 favorite last time I checked. Honestly, I don’t really have a good sense who it will be, everyday my prediction seems to want to change. But I already made my bet on Castro, no backsies on that.

  122. 122.

    dmsilev

    @dogwood: Chris Christie would be another possibility.

    What are the odds, by the way, that Trump turns the convention into an infomercial for let’s say a new timeshare development that he’s pimped his name out to? The temptation must be huge: a couple thousand pre-selected marks delegates who were brought into the arena explicitly for praising Trump, plus a broadcast audience of millions. Most of the latter, granted, will be watching for the sheer train-wreckedness of it all, but still.

  125. 125.

    Hkedi

    I’ve been hearing some rumbles about Al Franken for VP, other than losing a senator, that would be a good pick.

  126. 126.

    magurakurin

    @dogwood:

    What she says on the campaign trail is seen by a larger and much broader audience.

    and her whole thing goes global if she is the VP. Traveling the world. I think it comes down to what Warren really wants. Does she want to work in the Senate with the painfully slow sausage making process of writing legislation or does she want a soapbox for her ideas? If it is the latter, VP is a promotion, if the former, not so much.

  130. 130.

    KS in MA

    @Pogonip: You might consider going to your state health insurance board/division/department. I’ve heard (right here at BJ, no doubt) that some of them have actual power.

  131. 131.

    NotMax

    @efgoldman

    It is arguable that JFK/LBJ had an affect, geographically speaking.

    And that the now you see him, now you don’t choice of Tom Eagleton had a negative impact (not that McGovern would have won, but might have done better).

    Trivia: History buffs are aware that Teddy Roosevelt was chosen as veep candidate to remove him from the mainstream of politics and put the kibosh on future ambition.

  134. 134.

    Ruckus

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    What?
    I was talking about your aunt and yourself having something in common. How did your parents get in the conversation and in a negative manner?

  136. 136.

    dogwood

    @magurakurin:
    Vice Presidents don’t get that much exposure to the general public. Do you really think if something big is going down, the press will be running to the Naval Observatory for Warren’s take? A wide swathe of Americans can’t even name the VP, let alone give a damn about their soapbox issues.

  137. 137.

    Mai.naem.mobile

    I think Warren’s better off staying in the Senate. If you want to seal the deal with Hispanics for decades, go with Perez or Castro. I prefer Perez because I think he’s better on teevee than Castro who also happens to look like a Senate staffer.

  142. 142.

    Thymezone

    @Mai.naem.mobile: My opinion is that “sealing the deal” with Hispanics is unnecessary with Trump as the opponent. What is necessary is getting Hispanics to the polls, they have a long history of completely pathetic voter turnout. The way to address that is with grassroots organization.

  144. 144.

    Jack the Second

    Does anyone else find it funny that you can have the first female Presidential nominee on stage with the Madam Professor Senator and still fail the Bechdel test?

  145. 145.

    LAO

    O/T: just got home from the Peter Gabriel and Sting concert and I must say, for a couple of old dudes, they were awesome. And not big fans of Brexit.

  146. 146.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Brokley Carmichael ‏@ ebrew79 4h4 hours ago Lawton, OK
    @jbouie Yep, Ted Kennedy couldn’t get to the WH. Maybe the most influential politician in the history of the Senate.

    I think that overstates the case, but I think Kennedy was the most influential Senator of the last 25 years of his life?

    Maybe I’m romanticizing, but it seems to me individual Senators have less influence and stature since the Great Polarization started after 9/11

  147. 147.

    Thymezone

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yeah, on party line stuff, they are mostly interchangeable. On tough issues, you whip the votes. Anyway, keeping Warren in the Senate because her vote is somehow more congenial than some other Democrat? That’s a chickenshit move AFAIC. Actually, it’s a concern troll idea, but I am giving you the benefit of the doubt.

  148. 148.

    NotMax

    Anyone else think that Warren’s white and gold outfit was particularly fetching?

    /strained internet humor

  149. 149.

    dogwood

    @Thymezone:
    The fact that I taught AP political science for years, and taught a course entitled “Elections and Voting Behavior” at the local four year college once a year, gives me confidence that I’m not ignorant when it comes to the research on the effect of VP selection on voting behavior.

  150. 150.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Thymezone:

    On tough issues, you whip the votes.

    Is that what you do?

    “congenial”?

    You are one dumb motherfucker.

    Thanks for popping in.

  152. 152.

    scav

    @Jack the Second: Well, it’s not like woman have to pass it in every conversation or sentence. If so, it would be a handy muzzle and effectively prevent them from ever competing against men.

  154. 154.

    smith

    @dmsilev:

    Since they aren’t exactly running a finely-tuned well-oiled leak-proof machine, it could mean that there isn’t actually a short list yet…

    I always assumed that the reason for leaks of VP lists was to look at the performance of various trial balloons before finalizing a pick. Leaking it means someone is systematically evaluating feedback, and weighing pros and cons. Donald considers himself to be his best, indeed only, worthwhile adviser, so really there’s no need to bother with such niceties. It’s the same as deciding not to do internal polling or list building or GOTV. Who needs ’em, when you’ve got the Donald?

  156. 156.

    Thymezone

    @dogwood: Very impressive. Might have been more impressive if you just said, “I disagree, I’d pick so and so.” But that wouldn’t be the BJ way. Pulling out your collossal dick is really the winning move here. With credentials like yours, I am surprised they let anyone else post here. Really. I mean, what’s the point? The rest of us are just thorns in your tire.

  157. 157.

    dogwood

    @Thymezone:
    What’s wrong with you? You said I didn’t know what I was talking about, so I explained that I had some expertise in the subject. I don’t have any special credentials that anyone who has studied and researched voting behavior doesn’t have as well.

  158. 158.

    different-church-lady

    I’m so old I can remember when it was a gimme Warren would endorse Sanders.

  160. 160.

    dogwood

    @different-church-lady:
    You know Warren did sign that letter from several Congrssional democrats urging Clinton to run. I never understood why people assumed she wasn’t in Clinton’s camp all along.

  163. 163.

    Shalimar

    I understand and agree with everyone saying Warren will be more effective as a Senator than as VP. And I understand not wanting to risk losing the seat and possibly the balance of power in the Senate.

    That said, people seem to ignore the possible electoral implications. Elizabeth Warren drives Trump to unseen heights of narcissistic stupidity. Four months of her battering him as part of the ticket could have a huge effect on positive turnout for Democrats and negative turnout for Republicans. Does Tim Kaine make a single person in the whole country more likely to vote or stay home?

    If Warren’s enthusiastic defenestration of Trump increased the margin by 3-4%, that would be far more valuable than 1 Senate seat that Dems are likely to take back by March anyway.

  165. 165.

    dogwood

    @Shalimar:
    All good points, but people from Mass. dont seem to think it is likely to flip back to the dems. in March. Getting democrats to vote in midterms is hard enough, a special election 4 months after a presidential election is really a heavy lift.

  168. 168.

    GregB

    The Misogyny Meter is gonna break in the first week after the announcement if this happens.

  169. 169.

    Anne Laurie

    @dmsilev:

    I’m actually a bit surprised we haven’t seen any lists leak from the Trump campaign. Since they aren’t exactly running a finely-tuned well-oiled leak-proof machine, it could mean that there isn’t actually a short list yet…

    From what I’ve seen, the “real” GOP is actually fretting that Trump’s VP shortlist right now consists of “What have they got to offer *ME*?”

    Newt Gingrich is lobbying very hard, and very publicly. Chris Christie has been shyer recently — positive spin is that he wants to be Justice Dept head in a Trump administration, where he can really go after all his many, many old enemies. The neocons are pushing Jefferson Beauregard Sessions, courtly Southron racist who’s never heard of a country full of brown people that doesn’t need bombing. RNC “realists”, such as they are, are arguing publicly for Kasich (the runner-up who didn’t make everyone hate him) or Cruz (hahahahaha).

    If there’s no genuine billionaire desperate enough to actually buy the VP slot — who else is old enough to remember Nelson Rockefeller? — I’m half-expecting Trump to give it to one of his idiot sons. Ivanka’s actually useful running the Trump “empire”, or so I’m told, but Uday & Qusay aren’t doing anything where they couldn’t be spared to attend state funerals between rounds of elephant-murder & running golf courses into the red.

  170. 170.

    Anne Laurie

    @Hkedi:

    I’ve been hearing some rumbles about Al Franken for VP, other than losing a senator, that would be a good pick.

    Franken would be a pretty good ‘Joe Biden for a new generation’ pick. But on the other hand, the fact that he’s discussed it so publicly makes me suspect he’s deliberately drawing media fire away from the actual people on the short list — because he’s a good guy & an excellent Democrat.

  171. 171.

    PatrickG

    Late to this thread, and I haven’t read the responses, but it wasn’t so long ago that we were talking about Elizabeth Warren (The Senator Who is Absolutely Awesome!) stumping for Hillary Clinton (The Candidate Who Must Win and Is Actually Awesome Too!) in order to bring reluctant Bernie voters on board. Because seriously, Clinton is not actually evil, and Warren is a great surrogate.

    Now she’s stumping, and everyone’s fixated on the VP slot.

    Personally, I like to think Warren and Clinton are very aware of electoral math, Senate calculations, and the like. Do you really think either of them want to risk being able to confirm Supreme Court justices come January?

    As Scott (ImNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet) would say, that’s just my $0.02.

  172. 172.

    danielx

    Hillary Clinton and Elizabeth Warren took a little trip to Ohio today to see the sights, do some antiquing, and eviscerate Donald Trump…

    Pretty difficult to find a more pleasant way of spending a travel day, actually. There are more scenic places, but the evisceration bit outweighs any possible downside.

    @Anne Laurie:

    Newt (and his Neuticles™) lobbying hard and publicly for the VP spot, well! I am shocked, shocked….what does it take to get rid of the sonofabitch? Burying him at midnight at a crossroads with a stake through his heart?

  174. 174.

    Anne Laurie

    @danielx:

    Newt (and his Neuticles™) lobbying hard and publicly for the VP spot, well! I am shocked, shocked….what does it take to get rid of the sonofabitch? Burying him at midnight at a crossroads with a stake through his heart?

    Said it before, will no doubt say it again: Newton LeRoy Gingrich is the Boomer generation’s Dick Nixon. We’ll never be rid of him while he’s this side the Styx… and, as you suggest, I’m not sure mere cessation of breathe will be enough to do the trick!

  177. 177.

    J R in WV

    SEnator Professor Warren could spend the next 5 months on the campaign trail with LHillary Clinton, bouncing speeches off each other and the crowd, while the VP candidate, Whoever, is on a different list of stops – working with another liberal union person.

    Not being the VP candidate doesn’t mean Warren is out of the race.

    My paternal Grandmother was a Warren, maybe we’re 5th cousins, twice removed? The Warren family was from Giles county VA, and our branch slid west into southeastern WV, and north to where I was born. They founded 5 or 6 little country town newspapers in the 1800s.

  179. 179.

    Applejinx

    @different-church-lady: And now it’s literally the opposite, isn’t it?

    Hillary for President, Warren for Heir Apparent (and, future of the Democratic Party). She could not be aligning with Clinton so publically, after so long spent in neutrality, if Clinton was not also aligning with her. And that’s very, very good news for the future.

    Warren represents an attitude towards finance and social expectations that’s very important. If she’s lining up with Clinton it’s because Clinton is prepared to be Warren-like, otherwise she wouldn’t do it. I’ve been saying (to much annoyance) that Clinton’s politically expedient: this is one way that can be a good thing. Warren’s price would’ve been, ‘are you really going to stand behind the things I believe in?’ and she’d have endorsed way way earlier if that was such a given. She wasn’t sure Bernie wouldn’t be better (rather an indictment, considering how much of an outsider Bernie has always been: seriously? hold off on endorsing Clinton in case BERNIE ends up running the actual country?)

    Now she’s behind Clinton 100%. I wonder if part of her price was Brandon Davis becoming effectively DNC chief of staff (not simply election manager), something that would have to be downplayed as DWS has been loyal to Clinton, but which seems to have happened very thoroughly. Warren is in, and Debbie is out, that much is abundantly clear.

    It’s also a very effective way to marginalize Bernie. If enough of his movement goes with Warren, given incentive to do so (it’s not like she’s been taking direction from Bernie and nobody’s ever suggested she was: Warren is her own political force) then Clinton gets to take on the progressive mantle while pointedly NOT owing a thing to Bernie. I would suggest, judging from the closeness of the race and the trouble she was put to, that she’d like to tap that energy and take it over, but the last thing she wants to do is legitimize the old coot from Vermont in any way.

    Hence, Warren. The future belongs to Warren Democrats, and ain’t nothin’ wrong with that.

  181. 181.

    Matt McIrvin

    Aside from taking her out of the Senate, I love the idea of Clinton naming Warren as VP candidate. But the Senate races are not looking great at the moment–much worse than the presidential race:

    http://election.princeton.edu/todays-senate-seat-count-histogram/

    and it seems to me that aside from pushing hard here, we need to retain every seat we can get, especially with effective people like Warren. That’s my main concern.

  183. 183.

    Keith G

    No to Warren, No to Castro**, and fuck no to Wendy Davis (Christ, I hope AL was just using that for a rhetorical point).

    **I actually really like J. Castro, but I think that he is still a mite too green and part of HRC’s message will be that Trump is in no way ready for a turn as president. Plus, Tom Perez would be a might bit of a stronger pick than Castro.

    edit: @LanceThruster: 1) The two categories are not necessarily exclusive. 2) Obama is very much a corporate Democrat who, despite a few drawbacks, has made very important progressive gains. 3) Getting elected and then getting things done is not a bad thing.

    In an interview, I heard Paul Begala talk about how the VP slot adds little if anything to the contest and in light of that, HRC will be choosing based on “ability to take over” and “personal connection”.

    Sure hope it is Perez.

  184. 184.

    Stan

    @gene108: Agreed, I think having two women is exactly the right play this year.

    This election can be sliced a number of ways. It’s a white-supremacy GOP against everyone else election, for example.

    It can also be a male-supremacy GOP against everyone else. Clinton-Warren really hammers that home.

    The most important thing is to elect Hillary in a landslide that also give us the Senate and House. Although I agree that removing Warren from the Senate risks losing a senate seat, I think it also helps elect Hillary AND helps flip the house. I know, it’s a heavy lift….but I think it could be done.

  185. 185.

    Miss Bianca

    @magurakurin: Me too, and I get all the arguments for keeping Sen. Warren in the Senate – and agree with ’em! – but I must confess I feel a mellow glow of satisfaction at the sight of these two women campaigning on the same stage. (that’s not at *all* the same thing as a tingle up the leg, I do assure ye…)

  186. 186.

    Miss Bianca

    @Corner Stone: Do you see Tom Perez poised to take over Presidency if need be (which God forbid). That would be the only question for me. I don’t know enough about the gentleman to feel sure on that point, myself.

  187. 187.

    Miss Bianca

    @Applejinx: So, the fact that Warren actually signed her name to a letter urging Hillary Clinton to run for President means…what, in your little fantasy world of Eeeevil Machiavel Hillary Clinton? To me it sounds like Warren must have been convinced a long time before *you* were that HRC was the best candidate.

  188. 188.

    nutella

    @different-church-lady:

    I’m so old I can remember when it was a gimme Warren would endorse Sanders.

    That was based on a sophisticated political analysis: Hey, neither of them likes banks! They must agree on everything, then!

  189. 189.

    Berto

    “We’ve got to go big and we’ve got to go bold,” Clinton said…”

    She sounds like a BernieBro trashing the nonsense of incrementalism during a time when the citizens want to move the nation forward in a big way.

  190. 190.

    Peter VE

    Cui Bono?
    If Warren becomes the VP pick:
    1) Republican Governor Charlie Baker gets to choose the replacement Senator.
    2) The strongest voice in the Senate for increased banking regulation would be gone.
    3) Warren as VP would have to mute her own voice in deference to Clinton.
    Cui Bono? I would say Goldman Sachs would benefit most.

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