Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

I like you, you’re my kind of trouble.

Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.

The current Supreme Court is a rogue court. Very dangerous.

In my day, never was longer.

Republicans can’t even be trusted with their own money.

A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals

Celebrate the fucking wins.

Republicans want to make it harder to vote and easier for them to cheat.

I have other things to bitch about but those will have to wait.

The jury literally has a bell they can ring to force Trump to show up on command. Greatest thing ever!

Take hopelessness and turn it into resilience.

Motto for the House: Flip 5 and lose none.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

Beware of advice from anyone for whom Democrats are “they” and not “we.”

It is possible to do the right thing without the promise of a cookie.

If you are still in the gop, you are either an extremist yourself, or in bed with those who are.

You can’t love your country only when you win.

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

“That’s what the insurrection act is for!”

Every reporter and pundit should have to declare if they ever vacationed with a billionaire.

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

Innocent people don’t delay justice.

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Britain’s Right Wing versus Ours

Britain’s Right Wing versus Ours

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I’m a big fan of Democracy Now, especially for its in-depth journalism. Here’s a useful excerpt of an Amy Goodman interview with British journalist Paul Mason on Brexit:

AMY GOODMAN: So there you have it, Donald Trump saying what’s—with the pound going down, that would be good for his golf course. Can you respond to—

PAUL MASON: His visit has just been relentless comedy, I’m afraid. And any of your viewers who are thinking that this man might become the president of the United States need to really worry, because he arrived and said, “What a great result. The people have got their way, to leave,” but he’s in Scotland. Scotland voted to remain. And Scotland will probably now leave the United Kingdom.

And as for what he said there about the pound falling being a good thing, well, if we were an export-driven economy and we had an industry left—Margaret Thatcher, unfortunately, destroyed our industry—that might be true. But we are largely an importing economy and a service-driven economy, which can only really carry on with our own current economic model, the finance-driven, financial services-driven model, if we remain part of Europe. You know, what’s threatening the share price of major British banks right now is the fear that they will lose their ability to trade in Europe. So, Trump is just completely wrong, and also crass, I think, in the way that he’s kind of blundered in here. And, I mean, remember Sarah Palin in the 2008 referendum—election in the United States, didn’t—you know, didn’t know much about the rest of the world, couldn’t—you know, really couldn’t tell you much about, for example, Russia. This guy has come into our country and gone to the very place and said the very opposite thing compared to reality.

And, you know, I think, quite right, no major politician has met him, because he’s not only toxic, he’s seen here as a racist. And we have a Muslim mayor of the city I’m sitting in, and a Muslim mayor who, under Trump’s proposals, would not be able to visit the United States.

AMY GOODMAN: How does Trump supporters compare to those in the Britain First movement in Britain who were pushing for Brexit?

PAUL MASON: The Britain First movement is a tiny fascist group which wears uniforms, like these people that have been perpetrating crimes today in the United States. They are a ultra-rightist, almost Ku Klux Klan-like group. That is one thing. The leave campaign, 52 percent of people voted leave, look, this is way broader than Trump. United Kingdom Independence Party, which is this party that has one member of Parliament but is very influential, they are more like the tea party. But I have to say that what we have in Britain, you know, there are some extreme social conservatives who, for example, would want to ban abortion, and have very reactionary and racist views on ethnic minorities, but really they are a much smaller minority, and therefore even the people who wanted a hard exit from Europe and don’t want migration, they are very careful about using any kind of language that’s racist. It’s often what we call dog-whistle racism. But I would say, look, the 52 percent vote to leave is not the equivalent as if Trump got 52 percent in the election. It’s way, way more broader than that.

Let us know in the comments if you think these analyses hold. Also, some dessert: David Tennant reading some delectable Scottish Trump insults in a delectable Scottish accent on Samantha Bee’s show. The whole thing’s good, but if it’s insults you want, they commence at around 5:20:

Reader Interactions

236Comments

  1. 1.

    Mnemosyne

    If I may repeat myself: the only way Trump wins in November is if a minority voter group (meaning African-Americans, Latinos, or Asian-Americans) breaks for Trump. I do not see a planet where that happens.

    A majority of white voters will vote for Trump, but that’s no longer enough to win the presidency.

  2. 2.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    The wall of trash behind Trump as he gave his dumpster fire of a speech was an interesting choice, and by interesting I mean a huge unmitigated not ready for prime time failure of optics and staging. Trump is a Clown.Show. Brexit is doing a back flip, losing all the money out of your pockets then cracking your head open.

  3. 3.

    Hillary Rettig

    @Mnemosyne: I think Mason’s basically saying is that while Britain has its right wing, it’s a much less racist right wing than ours. (I caught the dog-whistle part, but subvert racism is better – prob in every sense – than overt.)

    I like the part about London’s mayor especially. There’s been a gorgeous photo circulating of London’s mayor (a Muslim) greeting the crowds at their PRIDE parade.

  5. 5.

    NotMax

    One of the hallmarks of high Victorian decor was the ubiquitous display of fringe.

    In British politics, the same holds true.

  6. 6.

    aimai

    @Hillary Rettig: There is no way that anyone can argue that Britain’s right wingis “much less racist” than ours. I think that results from incorrectly mapping very complex groupings onto a straight left/right divide and presuming that the form that modern concservative racism in England takes is somehow “less” than ours. The modern Tory/Conservative party hasn’t had to be as overtly racist as our Republican party because they never had to shift from being a party that was identified with minorities to a party that won specifically by proposing to destroy the social compact in order to get back at minorities. But they are certainly no less racist–its just that race and class issues are more intertwined. And a substantial portion of anti -Polish/anti EU racism thrown into the mix.

  7. 7.

    Schlemazel Khan

    @Hillary Rettig:
    I am not convinced that coded racism is better. If it is out in the open it can be dealt with and shamed. The problem with coded racism is that people can pretend it is YOU that misunderstands & they didn’t mean that at all. I’d much rather people said “nigger” right out loud as it would show everyone who they were instead of pretending that their use of “urban” does not mean what they know it means.

  9. 9.

    Mnemosyne

    @Hillary Rettig:

    It’s tricky, though, because the UK’s xenophobia is similar to our racism, but triggered by different things. We think their bigotry towards Poles is strange because we’ve divided our country into “white” and “not white,” but it’s not that different than Americans who bitch about how Latinos are taking over with their weird language and willingness to work for sub-minimum wage.

    British xenophobia is harder to quantify, but it’s just as toxic and dangerous as American racism. People are being physically attacked in the UK because of it.

  10. 10.

    Trollhattan

    @aimai:
    Agree. Amy Goodman is often a good journalist but she can get stardust in her eyes with the best of them and often fails to push back when whoppers are offered from the “correct” side.

  11. 11.

    scav

    I’d say they are seriously downplaying Middle England racist and xenophobic traditions.

    ETA: see also their football chants. etc.

  12. 12.

    Calouste

    And as for what he said there about the pound falling being a good thing, well, if we were an export-driven economy and we had an industry left—Margaret Thatcher, unfortunately, destroyed our industry—that might be true. But we are largely an importing economy and a service-driven economy, which can only really carry on with our own current economic model, the finance-driven, financial services-driven model, if we remain part of Europe. You know, what’s threatening the share price of major British banks right now is the fear that they will lose their ability to trade in Europe.

    Before the Eastern European countries joined the EU, London was the only region in the United Kingdom with a GDP per capita above the European average. If the investment banks move from the City to Frankfurt, the UK will fall into a depression.

  13. 13.

    Chris

    @Hillary Rettig:

    My impression was that it wasn’t racism but social conservatism that they have less of in the U.K. As in, nobody there really gives a fuck about women being allowed to have abortions.

  16. 16.

    Calouste

    @Mnemosyne: English divide the world into “English” and “non-English”, and non-English can never be as good as English, or as Cecil Rhodes said: “Remember that you are an Englishman, and have consequently won first prize in the lottery of life.”

  17. 17.

    Iowa Old Lady

    Trump’s lack of understanding of the effect on stock and exports, etc is particularly puzzling since he’s supposed to know about business.

  20. 20.

    rikyrah

    I prefer the non Dogwhistles of Trump, if only because I have been amused at watching our MSM try and explain Trump without using the obvious :RACISM.
    The dance that they have done around the subject -entertaining.

  22. 22.

    Chris

    @Calouste:

    “He wants to know if you are gods.”
    “Not gods. Englishmen! The next best thing.”
    – The Man Who Would Be King

  23. 23.

    Matt McIrvin

    I think that if you subtract enough minorities from the United States that it’s as Anglo-Saxon white as the United Kingdom, you do get a constituency who would go 52% for Trump in a general election. Probably more.

    Which suggests to me that it really is pretty analogous–we’re just demographically different.

  26. 26.

    scav

    And don’t be misled by the images in the BBC shows that make it over (see Tardis), think Midsommer Murders where the creator explicitly kept out ethnic characters as “‘it wouldn’t be an English village with them’. (ca 2011)

  28. 28.

    Matt McIrvin

    @scav: Those Doctor Who episodes have a strong tendency to be set in London (as played by Cardiff). London != the UK in general. It’s much more ethnically diverse.

  30. 30.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Hillary Rettig: The way I think of it is that the British electorate is about as white today as the US electorate was when Ronald Reagan was wiping the floor with Walter Mondale.

  32. 32.

    Aleta

    Would it be correct to say that most of the financial industry in the EU is in centered in Germany, with smaller proportions in Britain, France, Belgium, Scandinavia? Is Paul Mason saying that without the interdependence with German banks, British financial services would no longer be profitable enough to support their economy?

  33. 33.

    scav

    @Matt McIrvin: Certain BBC shows seem to pretty devoted to multi-ethnic / colorblind casting (like a chunk of their theater — even the Doctor nearly) and even non-London settings of NuWHO are mixed.

  34. 34.

    Patricia Kayden

    @rikyrah: I prefer the fact that Trump is open with his racism because otherwise the media would portray him as a reasonable businessman who is qualified to hold the office of the President. Thankfully, between his bigoted comments, including his anti-Mexican screed in his very first campaign speech, and his general buffoonish behavior, only partisan Republicans will be comfortable voting for him.

  35. 35.

    rikyrah

    I prefer the non Dogwhistles of Trump. I will say again : There are NO POLICY differences between Trump and the rest of the GOP. The only difference is that he doesn’t speak with Frank Luntz approved dogwhistles.
    It has been quite interesting watching the MSM attempt to explain the popularity of Trump without making note of the racism.
    Very interesting watching them trying to explain him and not say racism.
    As a Black person, dogwhistles don’t make me feel better. Don’t hide, admit what you are.

  36. 36.

    Calouste

    @Chris: For all his faults, Cameron is pretty strident in his support of gay rights, even though half his party are against it.

  37. 37.

    Mike in NC

    No way does the sleazy con man Drumpf get a majority white vote in
    November, even if he gives everybody one of his tough steaks or a few chips to spend at one of his tacky gaming establishments. His current negative rating of 70% may dip slightly after the clown coronation in Cleveland, and maybe he’ll do OK with the over 65 crowd, though I’ve yet to actually meet one with anything positive to say about the faux billionaire.

  38. 38.

    CarolDuhart2

    @Iowa Old Lady: Some businesses have a more exposed to the rest of the world mode. Most of real estate isn’t that kind of thing.

    To me, there are parallels with our right wing in certain respects. There’s a nostalgia for a lost past where white people were dominant. and everything was pure. Alabama longs for the short time of Southern Independence. Britain’s fall, which is still within living memory, is of the days when it was an empire that ruled a lot of the world.

  40. 40.

    NotMax

    @Mnemosyne

    Extended snippage striving to parse the land that lauded “The White Man’s Burden.”*.

    In England all the boasting and flag-wagging, the ‘Rule Britannia’ stuff, is done by small minorities. The patriotism of the common people is not vocal or even conscious. They do not retain among their historical memories the name of a single military victory. English literature, like other literatures, is full of battle-poems, but it is worth noticing that the ones that have won for themselves a kind of popularity are always a tale of disasters and retreats. There is no popular poem about Trafalgar or Waterloo, for instance. Sir John Moore’s army at Corunna, fighting a desperate rearguard action before escaping overseas (just like Dunkirk!) has more appeal than a brilliant victory. The most stirring battle-poem in English is about a brigade of cavalry which charged in the wrong direction. And of the last war, the four names which have really engraved themselves on the popular memory are Mons, Ypres, Gallipoli and Passchendaele, every time a disaster. The names of the great battles that finally broke the German armies are simply unknown to the general public.
    [snip]
    …It is quite true that the so-called races of Britain feel themselves to be very different from one another. A Scotsman, for instance, does not thank you if you call him an Englishman. You can see the hesitation we feel on this point by the fact that we call our islands by no less than six different names, England, Britain, Great Britain, the British Isles, the United Kingdom and, in very exalted moments, Albion. Even the differences between north and south England loom large in our own eyes. But somehow these differences fade away the moment that any two Britons are confronted by a European.…
    [snip]
    In England patriotism takes different forms in different classes, but it runs like a connecting thread through nearly all of them. Only the Europeanized intelligentsia are really immune to it. As a positive emotion it is stronger in the middle class than in the upper class – the cheap public schools, for instance, are more given to patriotic demonstrations than the expensive ones – but the number of definitely treacherous rich men, the Laval-Quisling type, is probably very small. In the working class patriotism is profound, but it is unconscious. The working man’s heart does not leap when he sees a Union Jack. But the famous ‘insularity’ and ‘xenophobia’ of the English is far stronger in the working class than in the bourgeoisie. In all countries the poor are more national than the rich, but the English working class are outstanding in their abhorrence of foreign habits. Even when they are obliged to live abroad for years they refuse either to accustom themselves to foreign food or to learn foreign languages. Nearly every Englishman of working-class origin considers it effeminate to pronounce a foreign word correctly. During the war of 1914-18 the English working class were in contact with foreigners to an extent that is rarely possible. The sole result was that they brought back a hatred of all Europeans, except the Germans, whose courage they admired. In four years on French soil they did not even acquire a liking for wine. The insularity of the English, their refusal to take foreigners seriously, is a folly that has to be paid for very heavily from time to time. But it plays its part in the English mystique, and the intellectuals who have tried to break it down have generally done more harm than good. At bottom it is the same quality in the English character that repels the tourist and keeps out the invader.
    [snip]
    Up to a point, the sense of national unity is a substitute for a ‘world-view’. Just because patriotism is all but universal and not even the rich are uninfluenced by it, there can be moments when the whole nation suddenly swings together and does the same thing, like a herd of cattle facing a wolf. There was such a moment, unmistakably, at the time of the disaster in France. After eight months of vaguely wondering what the war was about, the people suddenly knew what they had got to do: first, to get the army away from Dunkirk, and secondly to prevent invasion. It was like the awakening of a giant. Quick! Danger! The Philistines be upon thee, Samson! And then the swift unanimous action – and, then, alas, the prompt relapse into sleep. In a divided nation that would have been exactly the moment for a big peace movement to arise. But does this mean that the instinct of the English will always tell them to do the right thing? Not at all, merely that it will tell them to do the same thing. In the 1931 General Election, for instance, we all did the wrong thing in perfect unison. We were as single-minded as the Gadarene swine. But I honestly doubt whether we can say that we were shoved down the slope against our will.

    – George Orwell, England Your England

    *which Kipling wrote, it ought be noted, about the Philippine-American War, a proxy by propinquity for British imperialism.

  41. 41.

    Cermet

    @scav: I’ve read that many British actors who are black prefer coming here for roles – they feel their casting chances are better and yes, due to racism being worse in England.

  42. 42.

    Hillary Rettig

    I think while it’s sometimes useful for racists to make themselves known – like Trump, and also the idiots who have confederate flags on their flea market booths and similar, so we know not to do business with them – I’d rather see a society where racists and sexists did not feel socially safe expressing their heinous views.

  44. 44.

    dedc79

    That’s the condescension I’ve come to expect from the brits, although it’s a bit surprising to be seeing it right now.

  47. 47.

    slag

    Obama responds to British man with Brit-level snark:

    Does it annoy you, then, that the guy who wants to go back and is America’s most successful businessman, at least by his own reckoning, is Donald Trump?

    Well, I—there’s no successful businessman in America who actually thinks the most successful businessman in the country is Donald Trump.

  50. 50.

    Kay

    Although Trump is still ahead among this group of voters, he dropped from a 12-point advantage last week to an 8-point advantage this week; 41 percent of white voters now support Clinton and 49 percent support Trump.

    Trump is actually under-performing among white voters so far. Mittens got 59%.

  52. 52.

    Calouste

    @Aleta: No, that’s not correct. The market capitalization of the London Stock Exchange is about twice that of the Frankfurt Stock Exchange. Than there are things like the London Metal Exchange, which has about a $12 trillion yearly turnover; about half the US variable length mortgages are indexed against the London Interbank Offered Rate (Libor); London also has the largest precious metal markets;

  54. 54.

    Patricia Kayden

    @Mnemosyne:

    A majority of white voters will vote for Trump, but that’s no longer enough to win the presidency.

    It appears that Trump is going all out for the maximum share of the White vote. Since McCain and Romney lost even though they got 60+ percent of White voters, things look a little bleak for Trump right now. He certainly has the Nazi/Stormfront vote sewn up but probably has lost a few percentage of White voters because of his open racism, sexism, xenophobia.

  55. 55.

    scav

    @Cermet: Note that I didn’t say it applied to all shows or all theater — I explicitly said some and chunks. My original point was not to be mislead by the further sub-selection of the shows that showed up here which are no more representative of the UK culture than Friends encapsulated the totality of the US.

  56. 56.

    gogol's wife

    @scav:

    People on Imdb (who seem to be British people) complain that Endeavour Morse had a black girlfriend.

  58. 58.

    catclub

    @Kay: One might also note that Mitten got that 59% of whites when the unemployment rate was just falling below 7%. It is now what? At or below 5%? Oil prices are lower and the stock market is higher than in 2012. Obama’s popularity is higher.

  60. 60.

    slag

    @Kay: Yes, but given the circs, this still does not speak highly of the average white voter. Trump’s getting only, what, 8% of the black vote? Currently, the black vote is the most rational voting bloc in this election.

    Edited for clarity.

  62. 62.

    Aleta

    @rikyrah:

    watching our MSM try and explain Trump without using the obvious :RACISM.
    The dance that they have done around the subject -entertaining.

    I’ve noticed they use all kinds of other adjectives to avoid saying “the racist Mr. Trump.” Like “the controversial Mr Tr” “the outspoken mr Tr” “the candidate, whose use of colorful language is well-known,” and on and on and on and on.

  63. 63.

    Patricia Kayden

    @rikyrah: I was shocked to see that it was as high as 8%. Although I have family there, the U.K. strikes me as a very White country with most minorities living in a few major cities like London, Manchester and Birmingham. It appears that the influx of Eastern Europeans was the impetus which led to the BREXIT vote although I assume that the outpouring of vitriol will impact racial minorities as well.

  64. 64.

    Kay

    @catclub:

    10% of white Republicans are not extremely horrible :)

    They’re on the fence at least! Considering Gary Johnson, whoever that is.

  65. 65.

    Patricia Kayden

    @gogol’s wife: His Black girlfriend only lasted one season, if I recall correctly, so they can stop complaining. There were thousands of Black people from African and Caribbean countries in England during the 1960s so what exactly are they complaining about? There have been Black people in England since forever.

  66. 66.

    Aleta

    @Calouste: Are the British financial services expected to fail if disconnected from Germany’s? Or to become less profitable which would tank their economy?

  67. 67.

    Cat48

    @Kay:

    That’s the percentage of whites–41% that Obama earned in 2008. Enough to win by 7% if all minorities show up in,same percentages. Good place.

  68. 68.

    NotMax

    @Calouste

    Also too, after years of agreements, mergers and acquisitions, the major non-German continental bourses are owned and run by Intercontinental Exchanges, based in Atlanta.

  69. 69.

    ? Martin

    @catclub:

    @Kay: One might also note that Mitten got that 59% of whites when the unemployment rate was just falling below 7%. It is now what? At or below 5%? Oil prices are lower and the stock market is higher than in 2012. Obama’s popularity is higher.

    It was falling below 7% nationally, but it was already in the mid-5s for whites in 2012 (15% for blacks). It’s at 4% now for whites, 8% for blacks).

  72. 72.

    Cermet

    Again, Hillary has momentum and a huge lead. (Yeah! My first post not in moderation!)

  73. 73.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Hillary Rettig: The problem in contemporary US society is that there have been & continue to be significant cultural subgroupings–extended clans, if you will–in which “racists and sexists” do “feel socially safe expressing their heinous views.” Suppressing such expression on a global level only concentrates the attitudes in those subgoupings, which are still large enough to allow them to fester away from the light & propagate into generations to come. IMO it’s better to let them fly their stars&barstikas in public so long as the decent majority stands up to challenge their antediluvian attitudes.

  75. 75.

    Revrick

    @Mnemosyne: the main reason that winning the white vote won’t help Trump win is that so much is piled up in the red states of the South, Plains and Northern Rockies. Trump leads there handily, but trails badly in the Northeast, Midwest and West coast, where the electoral votes are.

  77. 77.

    Cermet

    @Kay: That isn’t under performing – that is a major crash! From 59% to 41% is a disaster for the rump … I mean Trump.

    Aside: Monster storm about to hit here…

  78. 78.

    ? Martin

    @Cat48: Actually better because the share of registered minority voters in the US has gone up, so the GOP needs to win an increasing share of white voters each year just to hold position. Granted all of this with the caveat that state votes are what really matter, and so what if CA has more minority voters, it won’t get Dems more EVs, etc. but the overarching trend still holds.

  79. 79.

    Miss Bianca

    @Hillary Rettig: I think the guy is nuts – or seriously wishfully thinking – if he thinks Britain’s right-wing is “less racist” than ours. Make no mistake – no matter how he tries to spin it – this vote’s appeal was built on “immigrants out”. And that’s what won.

  80. 80.

    NotMax

    @Uncle Cosmo

    Worth noting from earlier this month:

    The Southern Baptist Convention on Tuesday urged Christians to stop displaying the Confederate battle flag, recognizing that it is perceived by many as a “symbol of hatred, bigotry and racism” that offends millions of people.

    The resolution, originally presented by African-American Pastor Dwight McKissic, had stirred debate and led to at least one call to withdraw it. The version presented to thousands of delegates to the denomination’s annual meeting in St. Louis was less strongly worded.

    Despite some opposition on Tuesday from delegates who thought even the more conciliatory version was divisive and political, delegates voted by a wide margin to strengthen the language. They removed a sentence saying that the flag serves for some as a memorial to loved ones who died in the Civil War and not as a racist symbol.

    They also changed the call for Christians to “consider prayerfully whether to limit, or even more so, discontinue” the flag’s display. The final version approved by delegates simply asks Christians to discontinue its use.
    [snip]
    All Southern Baptist churches are independent and the resolutions are not binding on them, but resolutions are an expression of the opinions and concerns of the delegates who represent those churches. Source

  82. 82.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Cermet: That’s comparing a final general-election result to an early poll with a lot of other/undecided voters.

    Also, there’s been speculation that Gary Johnson and Jill Stein could get way more votes this year than they have in the past, just because of the high unfavorables for both major-party candidates, and I’d guess that if they do, it’ll be mostly white people voting for them. If Trump misses getting a majority of white people, he could still win a strong plurality.

  90. 90.

    Grumpy Code Monkey

    @aimai:

    I think that results from incorrectly mapping very complex groupings onto a straight left/right divide

    IMO, “left” and “right” should be reserved exclusively for economic systems (far left being completely centrally planned economy, far right being total free market). The Political Compass uses an additional “libtertarian < – > authoritarian” axis, which helps sort people a bit more sensibly. I’d propose a third axis along the lines of “inclusive < – > insular”, or something similar. Based on the little I know about Farage and Johnson and other Leavers, my knee jerk labeling would put them in the “right/libertarian/insular” octant – free marketeers who loathe regulations and furriners. True fascists probably fall into the “right/authoritarian/insular” octant.

    I think it’s worth noting that Alan Moore’s “V for Vendetta” was written in response to Thatcher’s policies and the rise of the National Front. This shit’s been building for a while.

  91. 91.

    Cat48

    @? Martin:

    She’s doing better than I thought. In the primary, she earned more white votes. Hopefully, all the Hispanic registration has been in other states too–Colorado which Obama was supposed to lose in 2012. Also, Nevada, AZ, etc.

  94. 94.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Miss Bianca: The British think of the United States as super-racist because they’re specifically thinking of the peculiar US version of racism, in which African-Americans descended from slaves get it so much worse than anyone else (with the possible exception of Native Americans). They don’t do racism like we do; they’re too busy hating on Pakistanis, Poles and Bulgarians. And black people descended from African immigrants.

  95. 95.

    gogol's wife

    @Patricia Kayden:

    I couldn’t bring myself to read the comments too carefully, but they seemed to think he would have assumed she was a prostitute so wouldn’t have had anything to do with her. It’s pretty ridiculous. I do think the producers/creators were trying pointedly to be NOT like the Midsomer producer quoted above, and good for them.

  96. 96.

    Cermet

    @Matt McIrvin: If trump loses any significant number of white votes he has no chance at all; Hillary can afford some lost even if greater than trumps. The demographics favor her tremendously. Trump is already on the ropes (most all black/brown are voting against him) and both the youth vote is against him and many educated whites. His numbers, especially electoral college just don’t add up without a massive win in the white vote.

    My take

  97. 97.

    gogol's wife

    @Patricia Kayden:

    She was on last night (season 3 episode 2), but they ignored each other — it was weird. I thought that was a nice plotline. But I guess we can’t have Morse being happy in love for very long, can we?

  99. 99.

    SRW1

    @Aleta:

    Depends. The City of London, which is the financial district of London, is expected to suffer if the UK loses the so-called ‘financial passport’ which allows British banks to do business in EU countries as if they were domiciled in those countries. The EU sees that ‘passport’ as part of the access to the single market, which Britain wants to maintain, but for which it will have to accept unlimited immigration rights for EU citizens to the UK. If no deal for a ‘financial passport’ after Britain’s EU exit is reached, many international banks are expected to re-locate to Paris, Frankfurt, and possibly Dublin. Goldman-Sachs has already announced the cutting of 2,000 jobs in London.

  100. 100.

    Kay

    Greg Sargent ‏@ThePlumLineGS 2h2 hours ago
    Again, the choice is NOT between:
    1) Trump’s protectionism; and
    2) Throw-workers-to-wolves free trade:

    I really couldn’t agree more, but don’t free traders have some responsibility for the impression that they want to “throw workers to the wolves”? I mean, seriously- do they have any role in that ? They are, after all, supposed to be advocates for free trade! Maybe scolding people on how they had to cheerfully hand over wage gains and telling them they were all buggy-whip makers was not the best approach?

  101. 101.

    slag

    @Iowa Old Lady: Me too. I hope he keeps it up all throughout the campaign as well. Poking the ludicrous tangerine ball bag tends to make it swing wildly.

  102. 102.

    Miss Bianca

    @Matt McIrvin: And where the hell did our race-based slavery system come from? That’s right, from Britain. From the plantation system in the Caribbean. No, our baked-in racism comes directly from the mother country – nice try, British lefties! But you sound about as convincing disclaiming racism as an ingredient in the Brexit stew as all the earnest would-be populists over here trying to tell us that the overlap between Bernie-curious and Trump-curious is all about the hard times of the (white) working class – nope, NOTHING to see with regard to racism or anti-immigrant status, move along…

  104. 104.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @? Martin: Makes me wonder if Obama’s trying to nudge Drumpf into convincing himself that he has seen them, & thereby goading him into an epic blowup accusing POTUS of malfeasance in office. Whereupon BHO coolly replies, Of course I haven’t seen Mr Trump’s Federal tax returns; that would be illegal. But his touchiness on the subject has to make you wonder what’s in them he doesn’t want the rest of the US to know about.

    Then again, who knows–this may be too cute by half, even for a 11-dimensional chessmaster.

  105. 105.

    Grumpy Code Monkey

    @Hillary Rettig:

    That’s called the “heckler’s veto”, and it’s a no-no as far as free speech is concerned. Even the most racist, misogynous, redneck Nazi motherfuckers should be able to state their views plainly and openly and not be in fear for their physical safety.

    The right answer is to mock or ignore, and to counter their bile with your own (hopefully more enlightened) speech.

    That’s the Platonic ideal, anyway. Granted, we don’t live in that kind of a world, and everyone takes risks when they express themselves openly. But we shouldn’t make that situation any worse.

  106. 106.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Grumpy Code Monkey: “Free marketeers” who loathe regulations have never read The Wealth of Nations. If they had, they’d understand that for a free market to function properly, the invisible hand needs help.

  107. 107.

    Emma

    @gogol’s wife: Actually, I think Midsomer worked out just fine. It wasn’t meant to be real, or at the very least it didn’t come across as real. The county was meant to be idyllic rural England, but a rural England where you took your life in your own hands if you visited the village fete, or joined the church choir. The plots were byzantine, the murders were Grand Gignol, and every little petty meanness and nastyness of small towns was mercilessly exposed.

    It’s my to-go tv show when I want to visualize someone good and dead.

  109. 109.

    gogol's wife

    @Emma:

    I love Midsomer with the fire of a thousand suns. I watch every episode I can get my hands on. But the producer made a really bad statement about how including minorities would ruin the show. It left a bad taste in my mouth that even Barnaby’s baby blues can’t quite make go away.

  110. 110.

    Calouste

    @NotMax: No one alive has “loved ones” who died in the Civil War. Ancestors, yes, but not “loved ones”.

  112. 112.

    Mnemosyne

    @Matt McIrvin:

    If Trump misses getting a majority of white people, he could still win a strong plurality.

    And Trump getting only a plurality rather than a majority of the white vote means President Hillary Clinton in a landslide.

  114. 114.

    Emma

    @gogol’s wife: Yes, unpleasant. I’d never heard that one before. *sigh* One of the damn worst things in life is facing the fact that lousy people can make good art.

  115. 115.

    Ian

    This is only anecdotal, but the few British friends I have had who have shown me something of their ugly undersides really disliked the “Pakis”. And when they say “Paki” they mean anyone from the Indian subcontinent or descendent.

  116. 116.

    gogol's wife

    @Emma:

    Tell me about it (Dostoevsky scholar).

    ETA: Well, he was not a lousy person, but had some lousy attributes. Like every other writer I know of, except maybe Charlotte Bronte and Jane Austen.

  117. 117.

    Emma

    @Ian: My blunt standard reply to that is “if you’d left them alone they would have left you alone.” I only use it when I’m fed up as I’m not really a combative person but sometimes it can’t be helped.

  118. 118.

    Miss Bianca

    Can’t remember whether it was someone here or at LGM who pointed me in the direction of this article but my God…if half this shit is true Jeremy Corbyn is dumber than a bag of hammers. Seriously…what an embarrassment. Refusal to lead, follow, OR get the hell out of the way.

  119. 119.

    Calouste

    @germy: And people right here on this very thread are arguing that the right-wing in the UK is just as racist as the right-wing in the US. The extremists, yes, but not the right-wing party that actually has a large number of seats.

  123. 123.

    Emma

    @Miss Bianca: I’m leery of that particular line of thought. It’s floated by the Blairite Labour group in Parliament and IMHO they’re fairly distasteful themselves. Still, he seems to be an idea man and in Brit politics you need a solid, nasty counterpuncher.

  124. 124.

    Calouste

    @Ian: “Paki” in the UK is pretty much “ni@@er” applied to people from the subcontinent. Simply the use of the term tells you that you’re dealing with an outright racist.

  127. 127.

    Kay

    These are good state polls for Clinton. I’m back to liking Wisconsin since they’re so thoroughly rejecting Donald Trump. Not fans of Mr. Trump in Wisconsin.

    A final note on these states is that they show the Presidential battleground is shaping up pretty well for
    Hillary Clinton in the fall. She leads in 5 of the 6 states and in the one exception, Arizona, her 4 point
    deficit still represents the closest a Democrat has made the race there in several decades:

  129. 129.

    germy

    @JordanRules: Sick people need help. These people need to be voted out.

    @Calouste: I don’t know enough about the UK to have an opinion. There is a British gentleman who works in a bookstore near me. He is usually calm and dignified; I always feel more civilized after dealing with him. “thank you sir! And have a good day!” and all that.

    I stopped in the day after the vote and he was red-faced. He was having a frantic phone conversation (sounded like he was trying to reassure a family member or friend back home). After he hung up, he rang up my purchase. He said that Obama had no business sticking his nose into Britain’s business and trying to force them to accept conditions that Americans would never accept. I didn’t know what to say.

  131. 131.

    slag

    @Emma: Had no idea. I happened to see it on Netflix and so wish there were way more like it.

    Though, for me, it’s less about the murders and more about the inventiveness. The periodic smackdown of stereotypical American bravado is also enjoyable. If all I saw of America were its Trumps and Palins, I’d smack it down on the reg myself.

  134. 134.

    Miss Bianca

    @Emma: If you mean “idea man” as a synonym for “ideologue”, perhaps. Right at the moment, frankly,”Blairite” is beginning to sound like a synonym for “does not have head firmly implanted in ass”. Jeremy Corbyn has always seemed like a weak, silly, ineffectual man to me – someone who, like Bernie Sanders, appears constitutionally incapable of actually doing the dirty work of compromise and arm-twisting it takes to get shit done politically. Now he just seems like an egotistical, stubborn fool – he’s able to rally thousands of people to support him as leader, but unwilling or unable to mount a persuasive campaign on his party’s official stand on an issue? Unwilling to acknowledge any personal responsibility for a disastrous result? Indeed, the comparisons to Bernie Sanders appear all too apt.

  135. 135.

    Mnemosyne

    @Ian:

    What seems to happen in Europe is that they (mostly) operate on nationality rather than color. If you’re a Pakistani-American who’s clearly identifiable as an American, you usually won’t have too much trouble. Immigrants from Pakistan to Britain or people of Pakistani descent who were born in Britain, different story.

    I’ve heard it quite often from African-Americans who are visiting or living in France. If they realize you’re an American, you’re fine, but if you speak French well enough to be mistaken for an African immigrant from a Francophone country, watch out.

  136. 136.

    rikyrah

    No!!!

    Really?

    Seriously?

    Never woulda thunk it. [/snark]

    Reuters Top NewsVerified account
    ‏@Reuters
    Exclusive: Trump supporters more likely to view blacks negatively – Reuters/Ipsos poll

  137. 137.

    rikyrah

    ooooooohhhhhhh

    The Associated Press ✔ @AP
    BREAKING: Germany’s Merkel says she sees no way to reverse British EU exit vote.
    4:52 PM – 28 Jun 2016

  138. 138.

    Emma

    @slag: I am totally bummed that I can’t get CBC in my cable package. I love Murdoch’s attempts to drag his boss into “modern” scientific investigations. And I agree about the gentle pokes at Americans. English, too.

  139. 139.

    Sloane Ranger

    George Orwell was right and continues to be right. The average English person, at best, doesn’t feel comfortable around foreigners and, at worst, doesn’t like them. Scots, on the other hand, are more welcoming.

    In terms of politics most BME people tend to vote Labour but, unlike the US, there is a significant minority who support the Tories..

    I think one difference between our two countries is that blatant in your face racism tends to be considered crass and is broadly disapproved of in favour of muttering about foreigners many failings to your mates in the pub or the club.

    Where the British and US right differ is on cultural issues. You can believe in climate change, gun control, abortion and gay rights and still be accepted by the right. You can even admit to not being a Christian or even religious and still be in.

  140. 140.

    Calouste

    @germy: Britain has the best conditions now they’ll ever get from the EU. If they leave and then want to join the Common Market they’ll get offered the same conditions as Norway, which has the same regulations for the Common Market as the countries that are actually in the EU. Britain currently has a number of exceptions, they’ll most likely lose those. The EU is fed up with decades of tantrums from the Brits. As one of my European Facebook friends posted last Friday: “Good riddance”.

  141. 141.

    Emma

    @Miss Bianca: To me, Blairite means “the assholes who pulled Labour to the right and fractured the coalition and on top of it pushed for W’s great Middle Eastern adventures.” Corbyn is, no doubt, not what the party needed, but his enemies are not exactly princes.

  145. 145.

    Betty Cracker

    Samantha Bee is a national treasure. I bet the Daily Show peeps are rueing the day they let her slip from their grasp. But she’s probably better off on her own.

  146. 146.

    slag

    @Emma: That is a bummer. You can get a free 30-day subscription to Hulu and watch several seasons, I believe. Or a free 4-day subscription to acorn: https://acorn.tv/franchise/murdoch. But yeah, if you’re cable-bound, CBC is probably where it’s at for a variety of good things. I know nothing beyond the interwebs, so I really have no idea what’s out there in the world.

  148. 148.

    WaterGirl

    @Betty Cracker: I was not a fan of Samantha Bee on The Daily Show, but man, she has been hitting it out of the park on almost every show on TBS!

  151. 151.

    WaterGirl

    After many days of 90+ degree temps, we had a gorgeous day today – high of 78, with a nice breeze. I worked outside for most of the day, but man is my back aching! For dinner I had pizza, 2 advil and a big glass of wine, and now my back is feeling much better. :-) Now the question is, was it the pizza, the advil or the wine that was medicinal?

    Edited to change “big glass of win” to “big glass of wine”, but I guess it works either way.

  154. 154.

    Iowa Old Lady

    @Betty Cracker: She’s amazing.

    I’ve been trying to figure out why Trevor Noah’s show is so much less interesting than Jon Stewart’s. Noah is not as sharp an interviewer, for one thing. He also has a bad habit leftover from standup–when he delivers a joke, he says “uh” and waits for the laugh. It’s annoying.

    Colbert is much less interesting now than in the Colbert Report too. His show is mostly people promoting stuff.

    But Sam Bee and John Oliver? Gold.

  157. 157.

    WaterGirl

    @Baud: I plan on watching that episode tonight. While I was watching her last episode I found myself thinking how great it would be to be able to say “fuck you, Donald Trump you racist scumbag” on national TV, and get paid for it!

    Note: I don’t know if those were her exact words, but close enough.

  161. 161.

    Kyle

    O/T: I’m trying to watch MSNBC about the Turkey airport attack, and I am reminded why I don’t keep a gun in the house. If I had one, Chris Matthews would make me shoot my television. Why is this idiot on TV, not to mention MSNBC?

  162. 162.

    slag

    @Emma: Yep. Brits too. Funny. But also I like its high-mindedly self-effacing humor—very Canadian.

    One of my favorite Murdoch lines was something like, “We don’t carry guns; we rely on our wits.” Paraphrased, but the sentiment expressed was highly enjoyable.

  163. 163.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Calouste: Boris and Nigel imagined they’d have some leverage. They have none. They sold this thing based on a series of lies, and the EU is going to make them pay for it.

  164. 164.

    Patricia Kayden

    @Baud: I stopped watching Matthews quite some time ago. My blood pressure and brain cells thank me for it. He has a way of getting on my very last nerve every time I watch his show.

  166. 166.

    hovercraft

    OT Sorry to introduce our long progressive nightmare into this British racism thread, but I just saw this from earlier today. When even Chris the Fix is taken aback, you are achieving a new height of arrogance. Mrs. Greenspan had Bernie on today and just wow.

    The Democratic presidential primaries ended two weeks ago today. Bernie Sanders is still kind of, sort of running for the nomination, despite the fact he has lost — by every possible metric — to Hillary Clinton.

    Clinton and her campaign have been generally fine with all of this, pivoting to the general election and assuming the Sanders thing would work itself out.

    That approach may change after the interview Sanders gave to MSNBC’s Andrea Mitchell on Tuesday. It was by turns baffling and surreal. But, most of all, it was remarkably condescending. This exchange is all you need to know to understand why the whole thing was so bad for Sanders:

    Go read the whole thing.

    Here is his summary.

    The Clinton team has been willing to allow Sanders his extended time in the limelight mostly because (a) they don’t think it hurts her in any measurable way for the fall campaign, and (b) they don’t want to anger his backers unnecessarily.

    But, Sanders’s condescension toward and dismissiveness of Clinton in the Mitchell interview was striking. It’s hard for me to imagine Clinton, her allies and the broader Democratic Party remain as accepting of Sanders’s continued candidacy if he keeps up anything like that sort of rhetoric.

  168. 168.

    Emma

    @Kyle: White. Irish catholic. Conservative (W voter, as he himself has said). From the pov of the powers-that-be what’s not to like?

  169. 169.

    Patricia Kayden

    @gogol’s wife: Endeavor’s Black girlfriend was a nurse and was clearly portrayed as a nurse on the show for that one season. A prostitute? Really? Wow. The things that racists say still shock me because there was no way anyone could confuse her for a prostitute. My Jamaican mother was a nurse when she first emigrated to England as were many of my Aunties so it wasn’t a stretch for him to have a Black nurse girlfriend in the 60s.

    Sigh.

  172. 172.

    rikyrah

    ranvir singh ‏@ranvir01 12h12 hours ago

    BREAKING: Richard Branson tells @GMB ‘We’ve lost a third of our value – and we’ve cancelled a deal worth 3,000 jobs’ #Brexit

  173. 173.

    WaterGirl

    @Patricia Kayden: Do I recall correctly that someone here said this is the last season of Endeavor? I surely hope not. I am really liking the Endeavor series, and now I have to go back and try to watch Inspector Morse when he is older.

  174. 174.

    Emma

    @WaterGirl: The older Morse will be… a surprise. (added) On the other hand the stories are fantastic. I’ll say this: watch him through Lewis’ eyes.

  175. 175.

    rikyrah

    ‘Little guy’ contractors still angry at Trump Taj bankruptcy
    Jun. 28, 2016 1:23 PM EDT

    ATLANTIC CITY, N.J. (AP) — Weak from heart surgery and a sepsis infection that would soon kill her, Patricia Paone was resting at home last summer when an apparition appeared on the TV — a famous businessman who had struck a deal with her husband years before.

    “He’s a crook!” she roared, according to a son who was with her that day. “I can’t listen to this.”

    A quarter of a century had passed since Donald Trump refused to pay $1.2 million for the paving stones her late husband installed at Atlantic City’s Taj Mahal casino. But for Paone and others like her — the dozens of contractors and their families who never got all they were owed — it could have happened yesterday.

    The contractor who provided the onion domes atop the Taj had to eat $2 million in losses. The contractor who supplied the Carrara marble from Italy ended up filing for personal bankruptcy. The contractor who put in the bathroom partitions had to lay off his brother.

  178. 178.

    Patricia Kayden

    @slag: My sister who lives in Canada introduced me to that show. It’s pretty good. I also enjoy Corner Gas which is set in the Canadian prairies.

  179. 179.

    Emma

    @scav: First link isn’t good. But to the meat of the argument… holy crap! Hasn’t anyone in that nest of vipers read election law? Don’t they have a lawyer?

  180. 180.

    smith

    @Emma: I love the older Morse! Most of my favorite British sleuths are cranky Olds — Morse, Vera, Jack Frost, Dalziel, etc. Age, cunning and NFLTG wins every time.

  181. 181.

    Patricia Kayden

    @WaterGirl: I watched it on PBS a couple of nights ago and it appears to be in its 7th season. Not sure if this will be the last year. I never watched Morse though.

  183. 183.

    Calouste

    @hovercraft: Sanders might soon find out that it wasn’t that the Clinton campaign didn’t do oppo research on him, it just was that they didn’t think it was necessary to use it. Yet.

  185. 185.

    Patricia Kayden

    @hovercraft: What exactly is Sanders trying to achieve at this point in time? The primaries are over. Clinton is the winner and will be the Democratic nominee. Why is he doing this?

    My understanding is that he can still help to shape the Democratic platform, which is fine. But that’s about it.

  186. 186.

    scav

    @Emma: It was just a googled direct link to Iceland sorce, no real additional data. might be lost ad at went rhrough an autotranslate I didn’t notice.

  189. 189.

    rikyrah

    Cops: Texas mom who shot daughters reloaded gun during attack
    June 27, 2016

    FULSHEAR, Texas — A Texas mother accused of gunning down her two adult daughters opened fire in her home, then reloaded her gun before again shooting one of her daughters in the street, the Fort Bend County Sheriff’s Office said in a statement Monday.

    Police say the shooting happened around 5 p.m. Friday in the family’s home outside the Houston suburb of Fulshear. Just before, they say, 42-year-old Christy Sheats had convened a “family meeting” inside their home. Sheats’ daughters, Taylor, 22, and Madison, 17, and her husband Jason, 45, had gathered in the living room. During the meeting, Sheats held up a gun and shot both of her daughers, police say.

    Sheats had been arguing with her husband about marital issues before she began shooting, Maj. Chad Norvell of the Fort Bend County Sheriff’s Office tells Crimesider.

    “The husband and wife weren’t getting along,” Norvell said.

    According to a police press release, Jason Sheats and both daughters managed to flee through the front door. Madison Sheats, who was shot once, soon collapsed and died.

    Taylor Sheats ran into the street and Christy Sheats followed, shooting Taylor again, police say. Jason Sheats ran to the end of a cul-de-sac and was uninjured.

  190. 190.

    Emma

    @smith: I happen to love the stories, whether Morse is driving me up a wall or not. My favorite has always been Taggart. When I first visited Scotland people commented that I seemed to understand a lot more than first time tourists did. They pissed themselves laughing when I told them about my Taggart addiction.

  193. 193.

    smith

    @gogol’s wife: Morse got old and cranky, but never irrelevant. Anybody who’s seen Lewis, but hasn’t seen old Morse is missing something — the interplay between them is great, and I’m not sure you can really understand the Lewis character without having seen him and Morse together.

  194. 194.

    Patricia Kayden

    @rikyrah: That is pretty shocking but I’ve also read that the Koch brothers aren’t supporting Trump either. Looks like he’s going to have to raise funds from the little people. It’s a good thing he loves the poorly educated.

  196. 196.

    gogol's wife

    @smith:

    I agree. The episode in Australia, “Promised Land,” is a particularly good showcase for Lewis.

  198. 198.

    Emma

    @smith: Agreed completely. You don’t really get Morse without Lewis and you need to know about Morse to get Lewis.

  199. 199.

    Patricia Kayden

    @slag: It’s a pretty good comedy. I haven’t had the chance to watch another Canadian comedy, Little Mosque on the Prairie as yet but have heard good things about it too.

  201. 201.

    PaulWartenberg2016

    @Mnemosyne:

    Trump can win if voter turnout is monstrously suppressed against the minorities and women in key states, and if overall Democratic/Moderate voter turnout is DEpressed because they’re all sulky and whatnot because of hurt fee-fees.

    I’ve been in Florida for 2010 and 2014, when an obvious unqualified MEDICARE FRAUD was representing the Republicans, and voter turnout was abysmal by Democrats even though they are in the majority of registered voters. All because the Dems didn’t “like” Sink or Crist on a personal level (oooooh, they’re too centrist for their tastes) AND WE’VE BEEN STUCK WITH RICK “NO ETHICS” SCOTT FOR EIGHT FREAKING YEARS.

    GET THE DAMN VOTE OUT, DEMOCRATS. How many times do I gotta scream that at you?

  202. 202.

    smith

    @Emma: You probably also need to have seen Morse to understand the bookending accomplished by pairing Lewis with the Cambridge-educated Hathaway.

  203. 203.

    Emma

    @slag: I’ve been thinking about Hulu… I don’t know squat about Acorn. I’ll have to check it out. Thanks!

  205. 205.

    Emma

    @smith: Oh, yes. Hathaway is probably one of the most interesting characters, and has some of the best lines… Did you see the episode where they’re investigating the death of the fantasy novelist? Trying to explain Tolkien to Lewis… oh boy.

  206. 206.

    Baud

    AP

    JACKSON, Miss. (AP) — A state representative told a Mississippi woman she should earn money for the insulin and supplies her diabetic 8-year-old daughter needs to survive, instead of asking for state help.

    Nicole Nichols of Richland told The Clarion-Ledger she was “flabbergasted” by the email from Ocean Springs Republican Rep. Jeffrey Guice.

  209. 209.

    NotMax

    @Emma

    Strictly anecdotal, but everyone I know in real life who paid for Hulu has dropped it.

    Roku box bought last September has more than been worth the purchase, and $7.99 per month for Netflix is a bargain and a half.

  210. 210.

    smith

    @Emma: Well, after all the instruction he’d received on opera, he was probably prepared for whatever those fuzzy-headed intellectuals were going to throw at him.

  211. 211.

    smith

    @NotMax: I heard somewhere that BBC is planning to start up a Netflix-like streaming service. Might be interesting if they make it available in the US.

    ETA: Yes — looks like it is aimed at the US

  214. 214.

    The Ancient Randonneur

    @rikyrah: Quite a bit more has been reported on this now and it appears this woman had been battling mental health issues for a number of years. Yet, she was still able to procure a firearm.

  215. 215.

    catclub

    @Villago Delenda Est:
    A threat that you have to follow through on may not be as effective as simply a continuing threat. If the leave vote was close but failed, they could tell the EU they need a new favorable deal to keep it from going up. Now, there is no threat left, and threat to appease.

  218. 218.

    Gimlet

    @The Ancient Randonneur:

    I’m sure one of the Fox news people said that before she shot the daughter outside someone heard her say “This one’s for ISIL”. Definitely an act of terrorism.

  219. 219.

    dogwood

    @The Ancient Randonneur:
    She was a NRA Facebook warrior who knew Barack Obama was trying to take away her ability to protect her family. I’m very sorry the police had to kill her. I wish she would have lived to face the music.

  220. 220.

    dogwood

    @Gimlet:
    She was a blonde Texan, so no Fox will never call her a terrorist. I doubt Fox would even cover the story.

  221. 221.

    Aleta

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Looks like he’s going to have to raise funds from the little people.

    They’re his marks. He’s convincing them to gamble their money on the chance of more jobs and a less complicated life.

  223. 223.

    Origuy

    @Miss Bianca:

    And where the hell did our race-based slavery system come from? That’s right, from Britain. From the plantation system in the Caribbean.

    True, but very few of those slaves ever made it to Britain itself. Many of those gained their freedom shortly after landing; there was an aversion to the idea of slavery on the British Isles themselves.
    The 1772 Somerset case in England and the 1778 Joseph Knight case in Scotland established this in law.

  224. 224.

    catclub

    @Miss Bianca:

    Right at the moment, frankly,”Blairite” is beginning to sound like a synonym for “does not have head firmly implanted in ass”.

    Not at Atrios’ place. he seems to hold a grudge against em.

  225. 225.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @catclub: He’ll never forgive Blair for his poodle act in support of the deserting coward and his war of aggression.

    I share that.

    And he has absolutely no use for austerians.

  226. 226.

    Plantsmantx

    AMY GOODMAN: How does Trump supporters compare to those in the Britain First movement in Britain who were pushing for Brexit?

    I may be wrong, but it seems to me that the British equivalents of Tea Partiers and the rank-and-file U.S. right in general are mush less likely to pretend they don’t want “free shit” from the government.

  228. 228.

    Tripod

    @Miss Bianca:

    Right.

    Jeremy Corbyn was an overpromoted backbencher, an old line trade unionist wobbly on the EU, trying to head a party that favors globalization 2:1.

    This is clearly all Tony Blair’s fault.

  229. 229.

    Miss Bianca

    @Emma: let me rephrase, then: “Blairite” seems to be used as a term to smear anyone who has a commitment to actually winning elections and getting shit done that *might* actually help their constituents, regardless of what their actual allegiance to Tony Blair and his policies may be. You know, kind of like “Clintonite” and “neoliberal” get used to smear Democrats who are actually committed to the messy business of sausage-making. As opposed to “Corbynite”, who’d rather be ideologically pure and practically useless. Kind of like “Sandernista”.

  230. 230.

    Suffragete City elftx

    So does Bernie harbor dreams of a revolution at the Convention? He is deluded if he or his ‘she will be indicted any day now’ hordes think it will work.
    My respect for this putz went out the window awhile ago and I now detest him.

    on a better note today is Mel Brooks 90th. Watched The Producers this morning in his honor. Can recall the first time I saw The 12 Chairs and how I laughed through the whole movie. Then saw it again a cpl yrs later and could not stop crying.

  231. 231.

    Miss Bianca

    @Origuy: I’m not sure I see the relevance of this point. Are you contending that because the British refused to import black slavery back home, and instead merely continued to profit from it abroad, that they were not, in fact, racist?

  233. 233.

    Joel

    @Iowa Old Lady: Jon Stewart had slowly become unwatchable for me. When Oliver took over for that summer, it was like a fog lifted on The Daily Show. Unfortunately, Noah just doesn’t have the chops.

  234. 234.

    Elie

    @hovercraft:

    He’s like Jeremy Corbyn in UK who ran unsuccessfully against Cameron and could hardly appear on the same stage with him during the campaign on the Brexit. Some people have real problems with self esteem… He knows that the come down is gonna be rough and I suspect that he is already pretty depressed. He loved all those cheering throngs shouting Bernie and it really did not matter as much, apparently, about the substance of what he represented. What mattered was that he was IMPORTANT — the most important he had ever been in his life and he loved it — There is no getting back the precious… So far, I don’t think it will ultimately cost Hillary and I think his supporters will ultimately support her as long as she does not do anything outlandish to diss him. They know he is a head case and is doing the best that he can… They will get what they need — His career however, is over.

  235. 235.

    Elie

    BTW I haven’t been around much lately during the week/during the day.. started my new job and so my schedule is different..I will be on in the evening and weekends…

  236. 236.

    Applejinx

    @hovercraft:

    It’s not a question of my endorsement. It’s a question of the American people understanding that Secretary Clinton is prepared to stand with them as they work longer hours for low wages, as they cannot afford health care, as their kids can’t afford to go to college. Make it clear that she is on their side, that she is prepared to take on Wall Street, the drug companies, fossil fuel industry. Deal with the global crisis of climate change. I have no doubt that if Secretary Clinton makes that position, those positions clear, she will defeat Trump and defeat him by a very wide margin.

    For heaven’s sake, what is in any way surprising about this? Clinton lining up with Warren speaks volumes.

    Is the objection ‘she should be allowed to side with the bankers and Big Pharma and the fossil fuel industry’? Is she supposed to be unclear about supporting Main Street and ordinary lower-class Americans, indeed supporting them with better PRACTICAL policies than Bernie himself can come up with? He isn’t even claiming he has better answers anymore, and that’s good because he didn’t: he framed the conversation.

    It is NOT about his endorsement. He got that right.

    I can’t see any sane argument against the rest of the stuff he’s saying. It should be taken as truisms, that stuff ought to be a given! A non-statement, trivially obvious! To get offended at this is genuinely alarming. If that’s not okay to expect of Clinton, then what the fuck?

    Hell, I demand likewise, and think chances are very good we’ll get it, and Clinton will get all credit for rescuing this country.

    Otherwise she wouldn’t be ‘palling around’ with Warren. It’s that simple.

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