Updated at 3:05 AM EDT
CBS 11 is reporting that DPD has achieved the outcome that they wanted in the standoff in the El Centro garage. A flashbang was used to bring this to resolution.
Updated at 2:10 AM EDT
Thanks to commenter median, we have a link to video of Mark Hughes handing his AR 15 to a Dallas PD corporal and receiving the corporal’s card/contact information so he can get it back at a later time. This was done at the urging of his brother Corey Hughes, one of the protest/rally and march organizers to ensure there would be no misunderstanding in regard to his brother who was open carrying unloaded, in accordance with Texas Law, at the march.
Updated at 1:22 AM EDT
Here’s a link to Jay Acosta’s twitter feed (H/T: kylefresh in comments) with video of one of the actual shooters targeting, shooting, and murdering one of the police officers. Its cell phone video, but its still graphic. The cop never had a chance and the shooter appears to have emptied his magazine into the victim.
Updated at 1:02 AM EDT
Here’s the official Dallas PD twitter.
Updated at 12:45 AM EDT
Dallas PD has just taken two people into custody after a brief car chase. They had left downtown Dallas in a a Mercedes, were chased by over two dozen police cars, and taken into custody on I 35 near downtown Dallas.
Updated at 12:30 AM EDT
CBS 11 has now reported that Mark Hughes has turned himself in. The suspect that they were negotiating with has also been taken into custody after a brief shootout. And the bomb squad has responded to a suspicious package.
Updated at 12:15 AM EDT
DPD has just announced a fourth officer has died.
Update at 12:12 AM EDT
CBS 11 is now interviewing the person of interest’s older brother, Corey Hughes. The older brother has just identified his brother, Mark Hughes, who marched unloaded, open carry with an AR 15. The older brother had him give his gun to a police officer as the shots were being fired and sent him home. He is now trying to reach his brother. Corey Hughes is now being interviewed by police.
Update at 12:00 AM EDT
Dallas PD Chief Brown has just indicated that they have information that the two suspects may have planted bombs somewhere in Dallas. They have asked the FBI and other appropriate Federal law enforcement agencies to assist.
Update at 11:57 PM EDT
Dallas PD has just released an image of one of their two suspects a person of interest. The image can be found here.
CBS 11 is now updating, based on information from Dallas PD Chief Brown, that there is a total of 11 injured. Ten police, one not police. Two DPD and one DART Officer dead. Two shooters. One is being verbally engaged by police and they are negotiating with that one. No information on where the other one might be.
Update at 11:40 PM EDT
Here’s the link to the Dallas PD Use of Deadly Force Policy. Here’s the link to their Officer Involved Shootings Page. And here’s Chief Brown’s page. He’ll be giving a press conference in about five minutes or so. Here is the text of Chief Brown’s statement:
Tonight it appears that two snipers shot ten police officers from elevated positions during the protest/rally. Three officers are deceased, two are in surgery and three are in critical condition. An intensive search for suspects is currently underway. No suspects are in custody at this time. We ask that any citizen with information regarding the shootings tonight call 214-671-3482.
Update at 11:33 PM EDT
Dallas PD Chief Brown, according to CBS 11 Dallas Ft. Worth, has announced that two snipers have shot 10 police officers this evening from elevated positions during the protest/rally. Those suspects are still at large. 3 officers have died, two are still in surgery, and three are fighting for their lives.
Dallas Area Rapid Transit has now reported that four of their officers were shot this evening and one has died.
———————–
Update at 10:55 PM EDT:
CBS 11/Dallas Ft. Worth has now updated their information. They have confirmed that two officers have been shot – one Dallas PD, the other Dallas Area Rapid Transit. They have been taken to hospital for treatment. One person is now in custody. A possible second shooter has been reported at the Omni Hotel in downtown. Finally, Dallas PD has ordered all the streets in downtown Dallas to be cleared.
——————–
According to CBS Dallas Fort Worth, shots were fired earlier this evening at what had been a peaceful protest. CBS News (national), is doing a live feed, and has just reported that it is unclear if the shooting was related to the protest or not. CBS News is now reporting that police are trying to move everyone out of the area. There are unconfirmed reports that two police officers were shot. Here’s the live feed for CBS Dallas Fort Worth. We’ll update as soon as we have more information. And, as always, information is going to be fast moving and quickly changing, so expect it to change as the night goes on.
Here’s an live feed from the local Fox station in Phoenix:
Baud
Thanks, Adam.
Dog Dawg Damn
Ugh.
Adam L Silverman
@Baud: I hope nobody minds me saying that I’m getting tired of doing these.
lamh36
If true, rifle says “sniper” mabybe? and we all know “sniper” and Dallas ain’t NEVER good!
Yutsano
Have lots of Twitter friends in the Dallas area (including some not too far from the worst of it) so getting some sporadic news. And yeah, it’s already looking bad.
hovercraft
@Adam L Silverman:
We are all tired of watching these.
Miss Bianca
Protest? What?
Fucking Flash has to be updated every week now, or something, so video won’t play, but damn.
Yeah, it would be nice to go a day in this fucking country without hearing about people being shot.
ETA: A protest over police violence. Jesus wept.
Mnemosyne
From some of the reports, it sounds like the protest itself was peaceful, and this asshole went into action when the protest ended and people started going home. That’s probably not how it’s going to get reported nationally, though.
And like lamh36 said, Dallas + rifle always = no bueno.
Prescott Cactus
Dallas, a nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
The Thin Black Duke
It’s going to be open season on black people now. Thanks, asshole.
Adam L Silverman
@lamh36: CBS national interviewed a gentleman who had been at the protest who indicated he was a gun owner/user and that the police responded with their handguns, but that the initial shots had clearly come, based on sound (technical term for this is report), from a rifle. Lets not speculate or jump to conclusions. Between the protest, the security presence of law enforcement, and others out in the area, this was a target rich environment. They’re currently playing the audio made of the initial shots, and those are clearly from a rifle.
lamh36
@Adam L Silverman: I’m don’t want to bigfoot another FP thread, but I’d like to hope one of the FP will post the video of the POTUS responding to the shooting. As usual, it was measured, calm, and tonally perfect, and folks who missed it should def watch it.
I posted a link to WH Twitter with the video on the last thread.
Baud
The live feed is still focusing on the building.
LAO
Dallas and sniper, not a great combo.
Also racist Twitter is already gloating. Disgusting!
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: CBS and the Fox local feed have all reported that the shooting didn’t start until after the protest had ended.
Adam L Silverman
@lamh36: I was planning on posting that. I’ll put it up as the overnight if that’s okay with you.
Adam L Silverman
@Baud: CBS is reporting it as the Bank of America building. If that’s accurate, then they think they have the shooter or shooters pinned down there.
dr. bloor
@The Thin Black Duke: As opposed to the previous 300+ years of our Republic.
Prescott Cactus
@The Thin Black Duke: I want / hope / pray / beg / plead the season to end !
amk
Sure police officers ‘were shot’. Same old trope.
LAO
@Adam L Silverman: but many outlets, including the NY Post, are reporting the shootings as occurring during the BLM protest. So, by tomorrow, everyone else will as well. The world we live in.
lamh36
@Adam L Silverman: hey…no rush on my account :-)
I just know that folks are probably getting tired of hearing so much and Obama calming tone is def a good thing.
Major Major Major Major
@LAO: well, then don’t read racist Twitter.
Why do people go there for hot takes? There will always be a thousand idiots saying what you don’t want to see. I just answered my own question I know.
dexwood
@Prescott Cactus:
This evoked a gallows humors response from me. A sad chuckle. What a world. Physical strangers from coast to coast can now help a blog friend while fucked up haters, cops included, can use firearms pretty much everywhere to gun down other strangers.
Adam L Silverman
@amk: Actually according to reporting from WFAA in Dallas:
http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/dallas-county/breaking-shots-fired-and-officers-down-at-downtown-dallas-protest/266881573
Ella in New Mexico
Ahhhh, yes. This “Open Carry for Everybody” thing in Texas is working out just AWESOMELY
Baud
Shooter with rifle in the alley.
Adam L Silverman
CBS11 local to Dallas has just reported that law enforcement has told them that the active shooter is pinned down in an alley and is armed with a rifle.
The Thin Black Duke
@dr. bloor: You don’t think it can’t get worse? Do you really think Trump isn’t going to use this? Bad things happen when white people get scared.
LAO
@Major Major Major Major: you’re right but sometimes, I can’t help myself.
WaterGirl
@dexwood: It was the best of times, it was the worst of times…
amk
@Adam L Silverman: of course, I trust the media.
lamh36
Adam L Silverman
CBS 11 is now confirming two officers shot. One Dallas Police Department and one Dallas Rapid Transit. They are also reporting what seems to be another active shooter at Omni hotel in the area.
dexwood
@WaterGirl:
There you go. So sad, so true.
lamh36
Adam L Silverman
@amk: Because the local guys standing as close to the line of fire as they can to keep everyone in Dallas and everywhere else informed is going to make it up. Its now been confirmed. Also, Dallas PD has taken one person into custody.
batgirl
The people protesting were peaceful. The asshole with the gun however…
Mai.naem.mobile
This country has officially gone crazy. There’s a fucking shooter out there in Dallas and there’s people just hanging around. WTF? Go the fuck home and let the cops do their job.
Adam L Silverman
Dallas PD has now called to clear the streets of downtown Dallas.
Mnemosyne
@Mai.naem.mobile:
If it was me, I would not leave the area until I got the all-clear. Who wants to get shot while walking to their car?
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
Hopefully the cops will respond in a calm and professional manner and realize that people who just got caught up in a shooting might be in shock and are also victims, not the enemy. Fingers crossed.
Miss Bianca
I have to check out for a few hours. I will check in with all y’all later.
WaterGirl
@dexwood: I think I should write a book.
median
Wonder how long it will take for this to be called terrorism (which it clearly might be).
Mary G
Ugh, I despair sometimes.
lamh36
Notice conflicting reports… “amid protests” , “after protest” …one word changes the context!
CaseyL
Maybe it is simply that social media amplifies things, but it’s starting to feel like the 60s again: a lot of anger, and violence, and general craziness in the air.
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: They’ve taken one person into custody so far, so that’s a good sign. And they worked very hard to clear everyone out of the area. I watched that on the live feeds. And they’re not trying to get rid of the media. All of that seems to be positive. They do appear, based on the live feed, to have flooded the zone with law enforcement. And if one or more shooters with rifles are still unaccounted for, that’s a dangerous situation. Even if its a traditional bolt action or lever action rifle, not an AR or AK pattern rifle or variant, any caliber above .223 Remington (NATO 5.556) from a carbine or longer barrel, has the potential to go through Level 2 body armor. The difference won’t be in ballistic effects, rather in rate and amount of fire.
WaterGirl
@lamh36: Rule #1 for the media: Never let the truth stand in your way.
trollhattan
The president’s address.
Adam L Silverman
@lamh36: @WaterGirl: Initial reports in these things are always going to be muddled. Adrenaline is pumping, even among the reporters and witnesses. Events are moving fast.
dexwood
@WaterGirl:
Why not. Literature so often re-tells the oldest of tales to each new generation.
Mnemosyne
Okay, I need a break, so to bring back a theme from earlier today, here are some big cats enjoying big boxes.
amk
@WaterGirl: Exactly. We have seen this charade eleventeen times.
SiubhanDuinne
@Adam L Silverman:
That’s very close (< .5 mile) to the building where the Canadian Consulate is located. I have several friends/former colleagues who work there. Now I'm worried about them.
***
Lawrence O'D is reporting that they have a shooter cornered and are negotiating.
Adam L Silverman
@SiubhanDuinne: I just saw a report that the shooter they have penned in has survival gear, whatever that means.
I doubt the Consulate was occupied by many at this hour and I’m sure that the Canadian’s internal security folks have everything well in hand.
WaterGirl
@amk: I know. I still respond with disbelief when cop after cop after cop is either not charged or found not guilty.
It’s a sad day when I can feel that I can relate to Andrew Breitbart – I mocked him for “Stop raping people!”, but I feel like screaming “Stop murdering black people!” This just has to stop, but I don’t know how to do anything about it. When I speak up about the murders of all these black people with friends and acquaintances, my comments are always met with silence. I don’t even get an “I know, it’s awful.” Just silence.
WaterGirl
@SiubhanDuinne:
My first thought: If they are negotiating, the shooter must be white.
Mike in DC
I hope they can get this guy to surrender.
Adam L Silverman
CBS 11 is now reporting a third officer is in surgery.
PsiFighter37
@WaterGirl: Cynical but you have a high probability of being right…
SiubhanDuinne
@Adam L Silverman:
Quite so. Having worked for the Cdn Consulate in Atlanta for 25 years, I know first-hand that their security is first rate. I was thinking more in terms of people who might have stayed downtown after work to join in the peaceful protests. (I’m not sure what the phenomenon is called, but whenever you hear of some event happening in a place where you once lived, or close to where you recently visited, or where there are people you know, it always makes the event very personal. Maybe it doesn’t happen with everyone, but it certainly does for me and probably plenty of others as well.)
EDITED to remove a pesky double negative.
WaterGirl
@Adam L Silverman: It seems like we are coming full circle. In the 60s, the country didn’t seem to trust cops at all. I’m not quite sure how long it took, but eventually things turned around and cops weren’t “pigs” anymore and I, at least, started trusting them again. Now with so many cops murdering black people with impunity, I am back to not trusting them again. Way too many have shown themselves to be bullies and murderers.
Adam L Silverman
@WaterGirl: @PsiFighter37: I think its also likely that they know they are under scrutiny because of the events of the past several days and want to do this the right way. Knowing how you respond is going to land you on the front page of every paper everywhere has a way to focus the mind on following procedure to a T.
Adam L Silverman
@SiubhanDuinne: Tracking.
Mike J
No cloture on DoD aprop
SiubhanDuinne
@lamh36:
I’m listening to MSNBC which used “after,” but I’ve had a couple of news flashes on the iPad from CNN, and they’re saying “amid.”
Adam L Silverman
@WaterGirl: There was a concerted effort post 60s to change the way policing was done. Even as discussion moved to law and order. This meant deescalation protocols. This was the norm through to the Bush 43 Administration. At that point the Bush 43 Administration changed what they would fund and deescalation concepts went out the window. Combine this with the country loosing it because of 9-11, the change to homeland defense at all levels, and the number of law enforcement that have now served at least one deployment to Iraq or Afghanistan, and we now have a militarized policing concept of operations married to an understanding that law enforcement is different than the citizenry.
SiubhanDuinne
@Adam L Silverman:
Should’ve known you’d know the word for it. Thanks.
Mike J
Dallas PD have two men in custody.
Adam L Silverman
@SiubhanDuinne: Most likely the result of the protest march being several blocks long. So even if the protest march was ending/over, it would take a while for everyone to get to the finish point.
GregB
@Adam L Silverman:
Terrible. Terrible. Terrible.
Horrible behavior begetting horrible behavior.
Everyone be safe and smart.
Omnes Omnibus
@WaterGirl: Me, I have never trusted them. Since I became a lawyer, that distrust increased. OTOH, I have never really been afraid of the police. I look and sound like an upper-middle class white guy. Yes, I am aware of my privilege.
Adam L Silverman
@SiubhanDuinne: No, you misunderstood me. I’m tracking, as in following your point even though you weren’t sure of the exact term.
SiubhanDuinne
Shit. Four officers shot, one dead. Shit.
SiubhanDuinne
@Adam L Silverman:
Ah, I see.
Well, why don’t we just call the phenomenon “tracking” and save us all some unnecessary work?
batgirl
Video released today of a police execution of a 19 year old white man in Fresno from June. He was lying on the ground when the cops shot him.
Mike J
@SiubhanDuinne: Twitter is saying 10 and 3, so I’m, going with 3 and 1.
Adam L Silverman
@SiubhanDuinne: Those are just the Dallas Area Rapid Transit cops, there’s at least on Dallas PD officer that was shot.
? Martin
When our elected officials treat the 2nd amendment as the most important part of government, nobody should be shocked that both the public and police resort to it to solve all problems.
SiubhanDuinne
Ten officers shot. Three dead.
Holy Christ.
Run, Lillian!
10 officers shot, three dead.
Oh my god this is awful. What a shit fucking day.
WaterGirl
@Adam L Silverman: You have laid out the progression well. I hope the pendulum starts to swing back soon, on a number of fronts. Guns, cops, open racism, all these murders, politicians who are off the rails. And the list goes on.
WaterGirl
@? Martin:
Quoted for truth.
SiubhanDuinne
@Adam L Silverman:
See the updated numbers, 10/3. Those from the Dallas Chief of Police, but did not hear distinction as to which force has how many members down.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@SiubhanDuinne: This is gonna get uglier by the minute. Other than that, I got nothin.
redshirt
@Omnes Omnibus: Fuck the police!
GregB
@SiubhanDuinne:
Oh God. Please let the reporting be wrong.
Adam L Silverman
Dallas PD Chief Brown, according to CBS 11 Dallas Ft. Worth, has announced that two snipers have shot 10 police officers this evening from elevated positions during the protest/rally. Those suspects are still at large. 3 officers have died, two are still in surgery, and three are fighting for their lives.
Dallas Area Rapid Transit has now reported that four of their officers were shot this evening and one has died.
max
WFAA Channel 8 DFW live feed.
2 snipers, maybe more, deliberately shooting at cops, one from a rooftop nest, according to witnesses. 10 officers down, three DOA.
max
[‘This is straight terrorism.’]
Adam L Silverman
@GregB: Nope, just did the update. Police press conference in 9 minutes. Will be covered on the CBS 11 live feed.
lamh36
Dallas Police Chief: 10 Officers Shot, 3 Dead
3 Dead. Rally was peaceful, and winding down. Then the snipers shot apparently targeting police.
Damn, I hope it goes without saying, that folks shouldn’t feel bad about being angry about the shootings of those men, or make you have hardened feeling about folks who want to protest.
Mike in DC
No suspects in custody. 2 snipers. Let’s not parse words. This is a terroristic act. Who the shooters are and what they want we won’t know for a while.
Christ. “Interesting times” can get fucked.
max
@Adam L Silverman:
They’re trying to evacuate everybody, not going well. Shelter in place instructions.
max
[‘Killing DART cops? That’s a deliberate spree.’]
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus: That makes you smarter than me. I really did start to see them as the good guys. I’m a middle class white female, and at this point I wouldn’t even trust them at a traffic stop. The relationship between the police and the public is all fucked up.
When i was on jury duty 3 years ago, it was plain as day (to me) that the cops were not telling the truth on the stand. Having more contact with cops does not work to their benefit.
patrick II
I remember when “Law and Order” got Richard Nixon elected. I hate to think….
Adam L Silverman
Here’s Chief Brown’s, Dallas PD, statement pre press conference:
http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2016/07/07/shots-fired-during-downtown-dallas-protests/
max
Aha. Witness says she saw a guy in fatigues with an assault rifle minutes before shooting.
max
[‘At least 50 rounds fire.’]
amk
@? Martin: This.
Adam L Silverman
@max: Yep, I just posted the Dallas PD Chief’s statement. This is going to be a long night.
Prescott Cactus
@WaterGirl:
Know that we are community here. We (I personally didn’t) as a community helped a member get 911 assistance today . Electronic community perhaps, but a group.
I’m numb with all this .
A black man , age 25 to 35 was found hanged in an Atlanta park today. Thankfully the FBI are getting involved. Whether this poor man was mentally ill and lost all hope or was actually murdered matters, yet we have another black man dead.
Feathers
@Adam L Silverman: I’m a huge film noir buff, particularly interested in the corrupt town/corrupt cops movies. it is an eye-opening look at how America used to be. You have to make allowances for the production code, but the ways in which entire US towns were essentially controlled by crime syndicates is something not really looked at today.
One example – Peoria, Illinois, in the early 50s there were 25ish openly operating brothels and many gambling joints. City Hall did not keep any bookkeeping records. City employees showed up on Fridays and got paid in cash. The elections to try to clean up the town involved the bombing of the homes of reformers. What got the clean government going was a generation of men who went to war and then to college on the GI Bill, maybe even on to law school. They were gone for close to a decade, came home without ties to the gangsters, and been through a war and were thus more than willing to fight back.
Corrupt policing goes a long way back. In many cases, City Hall may have gotten “clean” but the cops managed to stick around.
Sorry if OT.
Omnes Omnibus
@WaterGirl: I was a small kid (just turned 4) at the 1968 Dem. Convention; My mom, a 5’1″ 105#, person asked a cop where she could find a restroom for me. He said, “Fuck you, hippie.” It affects one’s viewpoint.
median
@batgirl: This would be a good time to dump all the videos of police killings that governments have been holding on to.
GregB
Sick to my stomach.
Adam L Silverman
@Feathers: Its an open thread. No worries here.
WarMunchkin
@The Thin Black Duke:
Pretty much my first thought.
Omnes Omnibus
@Prescott Cactus:
What the fucking fuck?
max
@Adam L Silverman: Yep, I just posted the Dallas PD Chief’s statement. This is going to be a long night.
From the sounds and the descriptions this is some fuckers doing some Turner Diaries shit.
max
[‘The WFAA folks are inside the Belo building, which means they’re stuck inside.’]
Villago Delenda Est
@LAO: I don’t suppose it occurred to these, erm, “people”, that the sniper’s motive may have been to go after cops to discredit the protest, and the sniper is an ammosexual white guy just like them.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus:
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/police-body-found-in-piedmont-park-a-suicide-victi/nrtJq/
Mike in DC
@lamh36:
I can be angry at the killings of Sterling and Castile, and simultaneously freaked out over the events in Dallas this evening. I see no conflict either.
SiubhanDuinne
@GregB:
Also terribly sad, incandescently angry, and scared shitless about the possible political fallout.
LanceThruster
@Adam L Silverman:
On MSNBC someone (witness?) commented that it sounded like an AR-15. That seems oddly specific, no? Do they have a wholly distinctive sound like an AK-47 is supposed to have?
lamh36
I’m literally tired of it all really. When I was younger, I was more likely to give folks the benefit of the doubt about many things, but I’m tired of it…
Now I’m like…no matter what your race, if you friends says bigoted and racist thing, masked as “facts” or “I’m just saying”…means YOUR FRIEND IS A BIGOT! YOU ARE FRIENDS WITH A BIGOT. Defend them all you want, but YOU ARE DEFENDING BIGOTRY…and if birds of a feather flock together…then guess what …ignoring it ore accepting it says you don’t mind the fact that YOUR FRIENDS WITH A BIGOT…and I have no need for you…
WaterGirl
@Prescott Cactus: People like Palin and Trump and even the media cannot be stirring up all this hate and then be surprised when violence escalates. I think this will be a truly ugly summer.
I am so grateful for Balloon Juice.
dogwood
A bad time for the President to be out of the country. He needs to be here now. This is scary stuff, but unfortunately not unexpected.
scav
@Villago Delenda Est: The Tribe and motivations of Dylann storm Roof do rather spring to mind.
Adam L Silverman
@max: @Villago Delenda Est: As I put in the initial post: information is going to change multiple times as events are moving quickly. What you are suggesting is just as likely as any other guess at this point. It was clearly premeditated.
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus: Yes, it certainly does. Protect and Serve, ha!
Villago Delenda Est
@WaterGirl: If the truth gets in the way of the approved Narrative, the truth must be disposed of. The Narrative rules. Always.
Adam L Silverman
CBS 11 is now updating based on information from Chief Brown that total 11 injured. Ten police, one not police. Two DPD and one DART Officer dead. Two shooters. One is being verbally engaged by police and they are negotiating with that one. No information on where the other one might be.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
No Justice. No Peace.
Villago Delenda Est
@Adam L Silverman: Yup, we’re in the first reports stage of this, and the axiom is first reports are wrong.
Still, I can’t help but feel that this is some sort of Turner Diaries wish fulfillment.
Aleta
@WarMunchkin: and continuing jittery actions by police, and protesting will be more dangerous this summer
Omnes Omnibus
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: You are not helping.
Corner Stone
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: You’re a real hero, and friend of the people.
Prescott Cactus
@Omnes Omnibus:
I first saw it at Democratic Underground.
Followed up with a check with the Atlanta Journal Constitution ( which I recall hearing of) and the Atlanta Black Star (never heard of). Initial ruling a suicide. No struggle, no sign of foul play.
Piedmont Park has a history of Klan activity some say.
ET Subtract
Run, Lillian!
@Prescott Cactus:
Seriously, what the BJ community did today for Mary G was just amazing. This community is just so damned decent. And I am clinging to all the decent acts I’ve seen these past few days both large and small, because otherwise I am just going to drown in the horror of this bloody week.
And fuck guns man. Period, full stop.
Adam L Silverman
Dallas PD has just released an image of
one of their two suspectsperson of interest. The image can be found here:https://twitter.com/MonicaDPD/status/751262605029699584
CBS 11 is now updating, based on information from Dallas PD Chief Brown, that there is a total of 11 injured. Ten police, one not police. Two DPD and one DART Officer dead. Two shooters. One is being verbally engaged by police and they are negotiating with that one. No information on where the other one might be.
CBS 11 is now updating, based on information from Dallas PD Chief Brown, that there is a total of 11 injured. Ten police, one not police. Two DPD and one DART Officer dead. Two shooters. One is being verbally engaged by police and they are negotiating with that one. No information on where the other one might be.
GregB
One thing is indeniable. America has been a violent place for a long fucking time.
I hope to God the vultures in the media and in politics stop fanning the madness.
I can only imagine what the SFV(Short Fingered Vulgarian) will Tweet.
Emma
@Omnes Omnibus: I think that’s the purpose.
median
@dogwood: If the President came back to the states every time there was a crazy shooting, he’d never bother leaving.
max
@Adam L Silverman: As I put in the initial post: information is going to change multiple times as events are moving quickly. What you are suggesting is just as likely as any other guess at this point. It was clearly premeditated.
There was that one dude who opened up on the cops in Fergeonson, but this is a pre-prepped drill with specific set targets – they were shooting up the squad cars. Generally if you tell me that two dudes open up on the cops from specific sniper positions in Downtown Dallas, then it’s very likely to be some neo-Nazi types.
max
[‘This is the specific kind of thing laid out during the opening of ‘leaderless resistance’ change of tactics in the 80’s.’]
lamh36
Black suspects…here is where the rubber hits the wall folks.
Also too, I’ve had to Pay attention to “friends” who spout racist, “all lives matter” propaganda, masked as “we all bleed the same blood” “why can’t we all get along” bullshit… Times like these is when you find out what some “friends” and colleagues, really think about POC other than YOU, there “Black friend”…or one of the “good ones” not like them other “thugs”…
BEWARE of bigots wrapped in so called “friendship”
SiubhanDuinne
A possible bomb?
Adam L Silverman
@LanceThruster: Different caliber, at least for a genuine AR pattern rifle. That’s NATO 5.556/.223 Remington. AK’s take a bigger bullet.
max
On the other hand, they put out a suspect picture of a black dude. A black guy in fatigues with a rifle.
max
[‘Truly weird.’]
philpm
@Villago Delenda Est: Exactly what I’m thinking as well.
Adam L Silverman
Dallas PD Chief Brown has just indicated that they have information that the two suspects may have planted bombs somewhere in Dallas. They have asked the FBI and other appropriate Federal law enforcement agencies to assist.
Adam L Silverman
@dogwood: He has to do his job regardless of what is happening.
SiubhanDuinne
@Prescott Cactus:
Not like Stone Mountain, but yeah, the Klan weren’t all that picky as to precise location.
scav
@Prescott Cactus: And that brings up echoes of Lennon Lacey hanging from the swingset from 2014.
Omnes Omnibus
@Villago Delenda Est: Golly, that would never happen and shit… I lost interest in even fake arguing.
median
12:01 AM – KTVT reporter calls it potentially “domestic terrorism” — perhaps because there were bombs (?). Shooting 11 people doesn’t qualify as terrorism apparently.
max
Looking for bomb package as well.
max
[‘Nation of Islam?’]
Adam L Silverman
@Villago Delenda Est: The person of interest they are looking for is African American. Though the media is referring to him as a suspect. Chief Brown indicated this is because the person of interest is carrying a long gun and they are concerned he may have been one of the shooters.
ETA: CBS 11 is now interviewing the person of interest’s older brother, Corey Hughes. The older brother has just identified his brother, Mark Hughes, who marched unloaded, open carry with an AR 15. The older brother had him give his gun to a police officer as the shots were being fired and sent him home. He is now trying to reach his brother. Corey Hughes is now being interviewed by police.
Corner Stone
@dogwood:
Are you for fucking real? Shut the fuck up, clownshoe.
max
that there is a total of 11 injured. Ten police, one not police. Two DPD and one DART Officer dead.
11 officers shot, 3 KIA, 1 civilian injured.
max
[‘…’]
bluehill
@median: No because the suspect is black. If the suspect were white, then it’s a lone wolf that couldn’t have been prevented.
lamh36
@Adam L Silverman: Right…I saw that. I’m sending out an alert to all my friend and fam in DFW..
WARNING NOW: If you are Black male in DFW, and you look anything like the “person of interest”, BE CAREFUL! Hell, even if you don’t look like him…BE SAFE
Adam L Silverman
@max: I’m aware and I understand why you think this way. I’ve published far too many articles and book chapters on this stuff. That said, we don’t know much yet. The person of interest they’re looking for is a person of color. This may be erroneous as from all the reports a lot of people open carried rifles at the march and rally so they may just want to find the guy, speak to him, and rule him out so they can move on to other possibilities. And since they have information that there may be bombs planted as part of this attack, this probably figures into why they want to talk to him. The last thing they want is to be trying to clear an area and bombs taking out the officers responding. But he may also actually be one of the shooting suspects. Speculation at this point is just that.
ETA: It appears the person of interest is erroneous. He’s been identified, and hopefully they can reach him before something escalates because someone has bad information.
Omnes Omnibus
@dogwood: Should the President sit in the Oval Office at a state of cat-like readiness to respond to any situation you deem necessary? Or should he do his fucking job? I know where my vote goes.
J R in WV
@batgirl:
Not an execution, those are legal deaths of a sort. If a guy was lying on the ground and was shot, we call that murder.
No offense, just saying.
Aleta
One of my roommates, son of 2 marines, says snipers sound military trained. (Not necessarily the bystander with the gun whose photo is out there,)
MomSense
This is terrible. We came in from catching pokemon in our back yard to find a nightmare on our tv.
Corner Stone
@lamh36: What exactly would you like people to be aware of with this comment?
hovercraft
@Omnes Omnibus:
One of the pundits on Lawrence O’Donnell’s show said it was a suicide, but that because of the timing and distrust the FBI is investigating.
lamh36
I know, I know…wait or info, but
@JuddLegum 2m2 minutes ago
Judd Legum Retweeted DMN Photo
Seems unlikely police photo of suspect was one of the snipers. Video shows him on street when shooting occured
Jonathan Holland Becnel
This doesn’t surprise me at all. 558 people murdered by cops this year with no solution in sight.
Thousands took to the streets today in support of Black Lives Matter. Let’s hope these protests continue until real justice is achieved.
max
@Adam L Silverman: But he may also actually be one of the shooting suspects. Speculation at this point is just that.
Cory Hughes says Mark Hughes is the man in the picture, and Mark gave his (unloaded) AR-15 to a cop when the shooting starting.
max
[‘Huh.’]
smedley the uncertain
@LanceThruster: Not necessarily. There were comments that the shots came in a series of bursts which is consistent with an assault type weapon with the selector set on burst. IIRC a ’47 does get off three rounds per trigger pull… Specific brand and model? Just a guess
Adam L Silverman
CBS 11 is now interviewing the person of interest’s older brother, Corey Hughes. The older brother has just identified his brother, Mark Hughes, who marched unloaded, open carry with an AR 15. The older brother had him give his gun to a police officer as the shots were being fired and sent him home. He is now trying to reach his brother. Corey Hughes is now being interviewed by police.
ETA: Corey Hughes was one of the organizers of tonights protest and march/rally. CBS11’s on scene reporter, Ken Mollisina, indicated that he actually met Mark Hughes when interviewing Corey Hughes immediately after the shooting and that Mark Hughes was unarmed at that time.
And DPD has announced another officer has died.
kylefresh
https://twitter.com/dallasnewsphoto/status/751235966505881600
looks like video of the person of interest at ground level
CaseyL
Bad craziness breaking out. Too many causative factors. Fear mongering, alienation and easy access to guns being top of the list.
LanceThruster
@Adam L Silverman:
Thanks. I have a Mini-14 which fires a .223. I have no idea if it sounds like an AR-15.
Mnemosyne
@lamh36:
Sadly, yes. This is where it goes from guns are inevitable, how are we supposed to keep people from killing each other? to cops are always justified in killing black men because look what THOSE PEOPLE did!
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@lamh36:
This.
And have your cell phones camera at the ready.
Narcissus
Why would you openly carry a gun in a crowd and then climb to a roof and start shooting?
SiubhanDuinne
@dogwood:
I can’t imagine what he could say here that he can’t say equally effectively from the other side of the Atlantic. If he genuinely needs to get back, he can do that in a matter of hours. And while everything is still unfolding in Dallas, there would be no point in his being there — his presence would just make everything that much more chaotic.
SiubhanDuinne
And…now a fourth officer has died.
Prescott Cactus
@WaterGirl: Palin had “targeted” some Dem’s districts. She used a crosshair from a rifle scope as an illustration. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was targeted.
We know how that worked out.
PhoenixRising
@Aleta: pic of the person of interest reminds me of a kid I grew up with, who is now mid 40s like myself but looks 29 like the pic & retired. From being a Marine sniper.
My sister saw him earlier in our hometown in the Midwest, though. I’m sending him a message letting him know that photo is out there so that tomorrow he can prepare for some attention.
Dammit.
PurpleGirl
@Mnemosyne: When a thread (or several) will hit me in a bad way, I go to one of my kitten cams. My current one is Foster Dad John’s cam. He volunteers at a cat-only, no-kill shelter outside Seattle. He currently has his 52nd litter. They just starting to become scampy. I love it. I love the cams.
Thanks for posting the big cats with boxes.
LanceThruster
@smedley the uncertain:
Appreciate to info.
Omnes Omnibus
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: You do realize that no one here disagrees with you and that a good number of commenters are AA or have AA relatives, right?
pseudonymous in nc
@Adam L Silverman:
Because Texas. In the sane fucking bits of the developed world, you can tell who the murderous fucker with the gun is because that fucker has a gun and no fucker else has a gun.
PhoenixRising
@Narcissus: or how would you do that? I mean without anyone seeing you? So. Suspicions abound.
Aleta
@Adam L Silverman: time to hope or pray for the safety of the younger brother then.
hovercraft
@dogwood:
I just thought the same thing. With the gop and their nominee likely to start stirring up more hatred towards BLM, black people and protesters, it would be good to have the president here to help keep everyone calm. After a day of silence what are the gun fetishists going to say tomorrow? Will they be silent again?
Adam L Silverman
@max: Did the update as soon as I finished responding to your comment. I only have ten fingers…
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
Poor guy is probably in a bar or at his girlfriend’s house and has no clue he’s been declared a “person of interest.”
? Martin
@Narcissus:
Happens constantly. What happens after that point shouldn’t surprise anyone.
Villago Delenda Est
@Adam L Silverman: Well, yeah. A black guy carrying a long gun. In an open carry state. We all know what THAT means.
The Dallas PD had better have their ducks in a row on this one.
Omnes Omnibus
@LanceThruster: You are a gun nut without technical knowledge. I feel so safe.
CaseyL
That guy in the photo everyone’s tweeting is not a suspect, and the tweets are going to get him killed by some vigilante bigot-moron.
rikyrah
Sniper?
Rifles?
I was thinking that they would have to hide. But, not in Texas. They could walk down the street with a rifle, and nobody could say anything.
Punchy
This cannot end well. Lots of innocent blacks in Dallas about to be targeted. Gunna be some serious retaliation by the po-po…
pseudonymous in nc
Dallas Morning News has a video which shows the POI in the crowd with the rifle at his hip while the shots are being fired.
max
***^%* Right around the corner from the JFK Memorial, 2 blocks from the Holocaust Memorial which is across the way from the 6th Floor Museum. (This is all in the West End so…)
max
[‘…’]
Mnemosyne
@PhoenixRising:
It’s like when “America’s Most Wanted” was still airing, and the people most likely to get the police called on them were the actors who played the bad guy in the re-enactments.
Suzanne
FUCK. This is so awful. I have spent the whole day feeling miserable about Alton Sterling and Philando Castile, and now I am even more terrified. This is the kind of thing that is going to make every cop in America harass, assault, or murder even more African Americans. This is pouring jet fuel on a fire that was already raging. Oh my God.
Adam L Silverman
@lamh36: CBS 11 is now interviewing the person of interest’s older brother, Corey Hughes. The older brother has just identified his brother, Mark Hughes, who marched unloaded, open carry with an AR 15. The older brother had him give his gun to a police officer as the shots were being fired and sent him home. He is now trying to reach his brother. Corey Hughes is now being interviewed by police. Also, the CBS 11 reporter, Ken Mollisina, when interviewing Corey Hughes earlier, has now reported that when he did so, Mark Hughes was standing next to Corey Hughes and was not armed.
rikyrah
@median: Killing 20 kids didn’t qualify as terrorism either.
Aleta
I think there will be a lot of effort to divert conversation away from long gun open carry to war on police.
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
Here’s where I get really cynical: I would not be surprised if DPD knew that was a picture of the brother of one of the rally organizers and released it for that reason. How else are you going to tar the protesters?
max
@Adam L Silverman: Did the update as soon as I finished responding to your comment. I only have ten fingers…
:/ Join the club. The CBS feed is going well, the WFAA feed kept cutting out.
max
[‘Sorry, this is my hometown.’]
Lizzy L
Ah, this is so painful. Dammit Dammit Dammit. I have nothing helpful to say. I’ve spent the day toggling between grief and anger. This is insanity.
dogwood
@Corner Stone:
What the fuck? It’s bad luck that he’s out of the country. Not much you can do about it. I’d simply prefer him here as the voice of reason, rather than the media’s most likely go to guy, Donald Trump.
lamh36
@Adam L Silverman: To late now thought isn’t it. If he turned it over earlier, no one told the chief before they released that photo.
The media called him a suspect, didn’t they, then after the video and folks came forward, then they changed the terms of reporting to “person of interest”
SMH…the damage is done!
Villago Delenda Est
@Adam L Silverman: If this guy was on the ground when the shooting started, why is he a person of interest? They think he might have seen who was doing the shooting, perhaps? The problem with “person of interest” is that it could mean just about anything, but the usual racist asshole suspects immediately process that as “suspect” or “perp” and jump to a conclusion that could result in fatalities.
SiubhanDuinne
@PurpleGirl:
Thanks for the good, calming advice. I just had a quick peek at the current litter. They are all asleep, in milk comas, with fat little tummies.
Blood pressure lower, and there’s even a slight smile on my face.
Adam L Silverman
@smedley the uncertain: Unless someone has a NFA authorized fully automatic, all AR and AK patterned rifles are going to be semi-automatic. This is the vast, vast, vast majority of them. Three round burst is illegal for either platform. Standard/traditional AR pattern rifle is chambered in .223 Remington/NATO 5.56. AK’s in 7.62X39mm.
median
Did they just cut away from the black police chief to chat with a blonde in the studio? Or is it my feed?
Villago Delenda Est
@Mnemosyne: It is unfortunate that in the current climate this is a fully believable scenario.
We must be cautious. Heavens knows the MSM will not be.
Adam L Silverman
@LanceThruster: Provided the AR is chambered in 5.56 NATO/.223 Remington, most likely yes. You can also get AR 15 pattern rifles now in a number of other calibers. AR 10s are traditionally chambered in .308 Winchester, but they too now can be had in a number of other calibers.
redshirt
@SiubhanDuinne: Despite the news, this world is great and we’re all so lucky to be alive.
Villago Delenda Est
@Adam L Silverman: The classic description of an AR-15/M16series report is “firecrackers”.
pseudonymous in nc
@Mnemosyne: I’m going to give them the benefit of the doubt, fog of war, Nobody knows anything right now.
What DPD need to do very quickly is prevent people who think they know anything based on what they’ve heard in early reporting from acting on that.
Suzanne
Fuck. This is going to throw the murders of Sterling and Castile out of the spotlight. They will be forgotten. This is so so bad.
Villago Delenda Est
@pseudonymous in nc: Agreed. The situation is very, very fluid right now, more noise than signal, more heat than light.
Omnes Omnibus
@LanceThruster: It doesn’t help Bernie, so don’t worry about it.
Adam L Silverman
@Aleta: Without a doubt. The good news is the cops are talking to his older brother. So that should, hopefully, get this cleared up real quick. In this type of situation, especially since they’re concerned there may also be bombs emplacement, the sooner the can rule someone out, the sooner they can refocus their efforts.
Mark Hughes has turned himself in according to CBS 11.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@efgoldman:
How is what I said irrelevant?
The sore whining of Clinton supporters continues unabated…
Adam L Silverman
CBS 11 has now reported that Mark Hughes has turned himself in. The suspect that they were negotiating with has also been taken into custody after a brief shootout. And the bomb squad has responded to a suspicious package.
Aleta
@Villago Delenda Est: At least one of the photos came from a parade bystander who stood near the guy and took it without seeing any suspicious behavior except the gun. The photo was turned in to the police. Got to agree he could be anyone, unless police linked him to other reports. Sounds like photo guy has turned himself in.
? Martin
Former congressman:
Any further questions that ‘Real America’ is just a euphemism for white people?
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: He just turned himself in.
Omnes Omnibus
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Your original comment had exactly what to do with the thread?
SiubhanDuinne
@redshirt:
I fully agree, and on days/weeks like this I am grateful to be reminded of that. It doesn’t make the sadness or anger any less, but it keeps them from being all-consuming.
Mnemosyne
@max:
Historically in America, “race war” means “whip up white people until they start massacring black people.”
And — BIG IF — if that turns out to be the case, I distinctly remember warnings during the Bush years that neo-Nazis were using the loosened qualifications to join the Army to pick up some military training for this kind of shit. If so, thanks again, George, you stupid asshole.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
a suspect, not the POI, apparently, in custody
median
@? Martin: Looks like Joe Walsh might be speaking at the convention.
Barbara
@Suzanne: Maybe that was the intent. Who knows at this point but it would not surprise me.
Adam L Silverman
@Villago Delenda Est: Mark Hughes has turned himself in. So that’s a good start in getting this cleared up. They’ve got the suspect they were negotiating with in custody. But since Hughes seems to not be involved, that means they’ve still got one guy on the loose provided they had their information correct on the number of shooters.
Aleta
Glad photo guy is safe from locals now, and hope he stays safe at the police dept.
Adam L Silverman
@max: No worries. I’m hunting and pecking as fast as I can!
lamh36
@lamh36: a screencap of the a the very least NBC News using term “suspect” then changing to “person of Interest”…damage done.
Did DPD say “person of interest” in their initial release of the pic?
? Martin
@Aleta: For now. If he’s involved in BLM, he’s not safe.
amk
@Aleta: That’s why I don’t trust the ‘media’ as well as the PD.
LanceThruster
@Omnes Omnibus:
Am I supposed to be able to ID various long rifles like they were bird songs?
They were honest questions, your snark aside.
Adam L Silverman
@lamh36: Chief Brown used person of interest in his press conference. The media turned that into suspect. He’s currently with Dallas PD.
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
Hopefully he’ll survive custody. I’ve never been to Dallas, but what I’ve heard doesn’t give me a lot of confidence.
Texans, if I’m totally wrong about DPD and they actually have a reputation for being professional, feel free to let me know.
Sasha
They still have his photo on their twitter account with the caption “This is one of our suspect. Please help us find him”
max
@LanceThruster: It goes without saying that no one, least of all the families of Alton Sterling and Philando Castile, is helped by this.
AR-15 with the smaller bore is designed and machined to be tighter than the AK-47 spec. AK-47’s have a much fatter sound to their bursts.
max
[‘OK?’]
Adam L Silverman
@Villago Delenda Est: I am aware. Tell Lance!
Mike in DC
Uh, maybe we should Make America Love Again instead of that other thing? Just a thought.
median
@lamh36: haha. They just did a little retconning on what they called him and how they talked about him.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Mnemosyne: FWIW
and their three top-ranking officers are African-American
hovercraft
@rikyrah:
It was terrorism while the POI was black, if it turns out to be a couple of white guys then it will be back to two disturbed individuals.
Amir Khalid
@median:
I take it you are referring not to Ringo’s biras, the guitar player who used to be in the Eagles, but to the Republican politician.
Omnes Omnibus
@LanceThruster: Wow, that is your line? Okay. Weird.
Adam L Silverman
@? Martin: Also deadbeat dad!
max
@Adam L Silverman: No worries. I’m hunting and pecking as fast as I can!
Did your CBS feed cut out? NBC channel 5 feed here.
They’re worried about Parkland getting hit.
max
[‘Also: 2 men in custody.’]
SiubhanDuinne
@? Martin:
Joe Walsh? The deadbeat dad? The guy who mocked double amputee Tammy Duckworth for her “unheroic” military service? That Joe Walsh?
Edit: Ah, yes. Here’s an updated tweet from him. Such a fine American.
Adam L Silverman
@lamh36: Yes, I watched Chief Brown make the remarks and he said Person of Interest.
LanceThruster
@Omnes Omnibus:
The Hildebeast will try to find a way to capitalize on this I’m sure. She tweeted about the black victims of recent police shootings without calling them super-predators so as soon as she’s determined which way the wind is blowing, she’ll weigh in on this.
These all involve ‘little people’ so the law can actually be applied to them.
Elie
This is beyond horrible! If these are black dudes, I am just so sad, so mad and so frightened for us in this country. Please oh please make this stop! This is the kind of shit that Trump wants — the hysteria and damage around this….
GregB
[email protected]median:
They say he’s crazy but he has a good time.
Mike J
@Adam L Silverman:
47s are bigger (7.62). 74s are marginally smaller(5.45), yes?
Suzanne
The company I used to work for has their main office about a block away from where this is all going down. They also designed the new Parkland hospital. This is a shit-ton of crazy for them right now, I’m sure. I’m trying to find out if all my friends who still work there are OK.
Sasha
But their twitter feed says ‘suspect’: https://twitter.com/MonicaDPD/status/751262605029699584
Jim, Foolish Literalist
what the ever loving fuck?
Omnes Omnibus
@LanceThruster: Bernie voted for the crime bill.
max
@LanceThruster: The Hildebeast will try to find a way to capitalize on this I’m sure. She tweeted about the black victims of recent police shootings without calling them super-predators so as soon as she’s determined which way the wind is blowing, she’ll weigh in on this.
DUDE. Can you kindly SHUT THE FUCK UP? Thank you.
max
[‘Bitch about Hill tomorrow.’]
LanceThruster
@Omnes Omnibus:
Gun nut? Get bent, douche.
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: I don’t know much about Dallas PD. I do know that Dallas does have, or has been reported to have, a significant African American middle class. Chief Brown is African American and from what I’ve seen on the DPD website in regard to use of force, they are at least talking a good game.
Adam L Silverman
Dallas PD has just taken two people into custody after a brief car chase. They had left downtown Dallas in a a Mercedes, were chased by over two dozen police cars, and taken into custody on I 35 near downtown Dallas.
GregB
@? Martin:
What a fucking bum, clown and wretchedly horrible human being.
Prescott Cactus
@Amir Khalid: Eagles guitarist backs Tammy Duckworth.
It’s the politician going.
Great question. Nice diversion.
ETA: I thank you for turning me away from this.
Mnemosyne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Hm. Okay, I don’t believe Balko about much, but police is one issue where he seems to be well-informed. That makes me feel a little better.
Adam L Silverman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I posted a link to their Use of Deadly Force rules and to their Officer Involved Shooting page in one of the updates up top. As well as a link to Chief Brown’s page.
Mike J
@Prescott Cactus: He’s a good guy. Used to live a couple blocks over from me. Would see him buying beer at the gas station.
inventor
Perhaps a new thread is in order?
Omnes Omnibus
@LanceThruster: Evidence is what evidence is.
Mnemosyne
@Sasha:
Looking at that Twitter handle, is that even an official account? It looks like someone’s personal account.
pseudonymous in nc
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Dallas PD was tweeting videos of the marchers chanting up until the shots started being fired, showing that it was a peaceful protest They are doing policing right in a lot of ways, which is why this is such a fucking terrible thing to happen.
gf120581
@GregB: If he’s speaking in Cleveland, you know Trump is scraping the bottom of the barrel concerning speakers. Why else would a washed-up one term House member who got voted out years ago be speaking? When does Allen West get his shot?
@Adam L Silverman: Yikes. And they took them alive no less?
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Narcissus: Um, you wouldn’t?
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Omnes Omnibus:
No Justice. No Peace. is a slogan commonly used in protests against police brutality, among other issues concerning poor people.
Until mass incarceration, broken windows policing, public schools to private prisons, etc come to end, there will be “No Justice. No Peace.”
Amir Khalid
@LanceThruster:
Maybe you should try not looking at Hillary through monster-tinted glasses.
Adam L Silverman
@max: No my CBS feed is going strong, nothing about Parkland. They just interviewed a woman that had been marching with Mark Hughes.
Aleta
Media started out with report of ‘light skinned black man,’ then moved to the photo they broadcast. No mention of the sniper skin color, yet the story has been slanted toward an impression of motive and skin color.
LanceThruster
@max:
You can bite me too. Omnes made a cheap shot totally OT at me about Bernie. I offered a factual report of HRC’s tweet. She’s the queen of crocodile tears. She’s much blood on her own hands, but her killings were by the actionscof the state so it somehow absolves her.
Omnes also called me a ‘gun nut’ without elaborating. Words have meaning. It demonstrates either a lack of honesty or comprehension on his part.
Mnemosyne
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
I have a feeling you have no clue what the origin of that slogan is. I do, because I personally experienced one of the results of the whole mess.
Adam L Silverman
@Mike J: Yes. They changed the caliber when they went from 47s to 74s.
http://www.diffen.com/difference/AK-47_vs_AK-74
Sasha
I don’t know if it is the official site but it has a huge logo of the police dept at the top and Monica Cordova’s twitter name is @monicadpd.
ruemara
@dogwood: Really? You expected 4 police shooting deaths in 48 hours and a possible double sniper attack on police at a peaceful protest? And the president should have canceled his plans based on his prognosticative ability? Maybe you should have sent him a note.
This has been an emotionally difficult month and a half, terrible 7 months and awful existence. I’m so numb, I’ve been immobile for a few hours.I can see why black was a sign of being cursed.
Omnes Omnibus
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Yes, shithead, literate people know that. Poseurs like you don’t help. That was my point. Walk away.
Mnemosyne
@LanceThruster:
She also met with Black Lives Matter representatives before Bernie did but, hey, why let mere facts get in the way of your emotional overreaction to the Hillbeast, right?
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: His stuff on law enforcement is very, very good and very, very solid reporting.
patroclus
This is terrible news! CNN has video of one the shooters by a guy who saw it all from his hotel room. My heart goes out to the dead police officers, some of whom were shot in the back execution-style. There’s 11 shot and 4 dead and some bystanders wounded.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Adam L Silverman: Mark Hughes is probably safest turning himself in after his face was plastered as a POI. This fucking sucks.
Elie
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
You must be white. The dead people and the interests that will suffer are for black people. White bigots everywhere — and the system that is already heavily weighed in favor of the whites, will love this. Keep your stupid thoughts and your usual poor judgement to yourself… white boys have very little to loose so you can talk your big bullshit about “taking it to the man”. It won’t be YOUR children, YOUR spouse, YOUR family who will be pilled up like cordwood.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Sasha: I took “PIO” to be Public Information Officer
dogwood
@Elie:
I don’t have any idea who might be responsible for this, but with the obscene proliferation of weapons, and the ugliest of rhetoric being normalized, there’s several plausible scenarios of how this went down. I was thinking a few minutes ago that I hoped the death toll stays at 3. How sick and scary is that? But that’s where we are as a country. Hoping the death toll in a mass shooting stays in single digits.
lamh36
Brian Williams on @MSNBC is still calling the guy “the suspect” he hasn’t used “person of interest” once!
LanceThruster
@Amir Khalid:
The ‘monster’ characterization is because of her posturing chest-thumping regarding foreign affairs and her fealty to Zionist apartheid Israel.
That’s beastly behavior…rather than an unfair representation.
Prescott Cactus
@gf120581:
Teahadist, Griftus Maximus .
Mnemosyne
@Sasha:
She may be a DPD officer, but I doubt that was an authorized tweet or that she’s an official spokesperson. Just another dumbass trying to be “helpful” and screwing things up, I’m guessing.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@LanceThruster: Oh shut the fuck up
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne:
That’s what Charles Manson wanted to do, except he heard messages from Beatles songs.
(Happy 76th B-day to Ringo.)
Adam L Silverman
@inventor: Just put it up.
LanceThruster
@Mnemosyne:
Yeah…Bernie’s just a ‘Johnny-come-lately’ on civil rights.
/s
Run, Lillian!
@lamh36:
He finally, finally said “is in fact innocent and not a suspect”. Took them long enough.
Run, Lillian!
@LanceThruster:
Seriously, you are making this about Bernie Sanders and primary war nonsense? What in the actual fuck.
batgirl
@lamh36: I just had to change the channel. Brian Williams has been all kinds of terrible tonight.
LanceThruster
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Who the fuck are you? What are you going on about? Fuck your butthurt.
Elie
@dogwood:
Like Ruemara says — I am numb — devastated —
Adam L Silverman
Here’s the official Dallas PD twitter:
https://twitter.com/DallasPD
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Run, Lillian!: And it’s too little, too late.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@batgirl: I can’t think of anyone I’d rather less see/hear at a time like this, except whatever’s on Fox or CNN
@LanceThruster: Oh, shut the fuck up, you bleating little wannabe
LanceThruster
@Run, Lillian!:
Scroll back. It was a specific response to a BJ asshole.
max
@Adam L Silverman: No my CBS feed is going strong, nothing about Parkland. They just interviewed a woman that had been marching with Mark Hughes.
OK, NBC says they’ve got a lot of guys around Parkland (not too far away from the location).
One man in custody probably from El Centro garage (which has calmed down).
Mark Hughes apparently turned himself in.
During shooting, a cop saw a man carrying a camo duffel bag walking rapidly away from the location, tossed the bag into the back of a black Mercedes. Two people in that car, that car was tailed onto I-35E southbound and they pulled them over. Both guys are detained and being interrogated.
max
[‘…’]
Mnemosyne
@LanceThruster:
You got the memo from Bernie’s campaign that he was not actually in Selma, right? That photo was of someone else who resembled Bernie at the same age.
But, hey, what someone did 50 years ago is always exactly who they are for their entire lives, which is why Ronald Reagan stayed an FDR booster his whole life, amirite?
Sasha
And here is the exact same tweet: https://twitter.com/DallasPD/status/751262719584575488
Adam L Silverman
@ruemara: Or send me this week’s powerball numbers.
FlipYrWhig
@LanceThruster: HE MARCHED WITH KING! And for 50 years after that he was also in the forefront of other issues affecting people of color, like [NO CARRIER]
LanceThruster
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
JFL – wannabe what? Pull your head out…it’s cutting off your oxygen.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Elie: It worked for Tricky Dick in 1968.
Adam L Silverman
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): When they interviewed the woman who was marching with him, she stated to CBS11 that Dallas PD told him he wasn’t under arrest when he turned himself in, but they did cuff him for safety purposes.
Miss Bianca
Holy shit. I leave you for a couple hours and come back to even worse madness than I could have imagined.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Adam L Silverman: So why the fuck can’t they delete the “this is a suspect – please help us find him” picture from the feed? Jesus wept.
FlipYrWhig
@batgirl: Brian Williams has always been horrible. His career is trying to split the difference between Brokaw gravitas and Stewart snark and he sucks at both.
Adam L Silverman
@lamh36: Its Brian Williams, why are you expecting better?
LanceThruster
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
JFL – wannabe what? Pull your headcout…it’s cutting of your oxygen
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
And, sadly, they called Mark Hughes a “suspect” on there, too. I mean, I guess it could turn out that he was a co-conspirator or something, but that seems somewhat unlikely.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@FlipYrWhig: since the scandal he’s been trying for profundity and eloquence
he hasn’t been succeeding
Elie
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Sho did… but I am hoping this will sort out somehow… As bad as Tricky Dick was, he was a model of Presidential behavior compared to Trump, no?
Adam L Silverman
@max: We’re on the same page, I’ve got that all in the updates.
Amir Khalid
@LanceThruster:
Which has what, exactly, to do with the shooting in Dallas?
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Elie:
You’re calling me a white bigot? Wtf.
Way to go to be racist, asshole.
I’m out there on the streets protesting injustice. Where are you? I went to school in Baton Rouge and have seen this blatant injustice firsthand.
LesBonnesFemmes
@Amir Khalid: I love you, Amir. This is a v v v tough day. But, you still made me lol.
Everybody hang on. Do not lose your heads. 2016, obviously, is a horrible version of the Year of the Monkey. It could be as bad as the 1968 Year of the Monkey, but maybe if we breathe, and keep our composure, and choose love over fear, we can save this godawful year so far.
Omnes Omnibus
@LanceThruster: The primary is over. Deal.
Adam L Silverman
@Miss Bianca: We do our best work after dark…
Adam L Silverman
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): I have no idea.
Belafon
@LanceThruster: We all figured out who you were with “Zionist apartheid Israel.”
Mnemosyne
@Sasha:
Yep. Dumbasses.
ETA: I was hoping the official account would not be staffed by dumbasses, but clearly it was.
The Dangerman
Late to the news (I left for an evening when things were only 2 police officers injured); can someone give me known facts on shooter(s)? TV only wants to show video and not tell the story. Shooter(s) caught? Shooter(s) dead?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Stop typing and walking, you’re gonna hit a lamp post. Or don’t.
Much like Hugh Hewitt watching 9/11 on TV
median
@The Dangerman: One shooter in custody, one still wandering around somewhere.
Gotta find a new news feed. I’m like a junkie… a junkie without a cable subscription.
LanceThruster
@FlipYrWhig:
I know, friend. Diid I really need a snark tag?
Prescott Cactus
@Miss Bianca: Shakespearian. This one is not a comedy.
PeakVT
So many pointless deaths this week.
Fuck yeah, America. Greatest country in the world.
Adam L Silverman
I’d tell everyone to chill out, but I doubt it would make any difference.
Think about the good parts of what we’ve seen tonight. Dallas PD, and other responding departments, didn’t freak out in their responses. Neither did the protest marchers who attended the rally. There was no rioting. There was no escalation of force against the protestors. As bad as things are, they could have been much, much worse as no one, thankfully, on any side of this, over reacted.
So how about we cut each other a wee bit of slack, huh?
CaseyL
@The Dangerman: Two suspects in custody after short car chase, is what I’ve heard.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Miss Bianca: BTW, that picture you described as LOL is hot. For the record. Goofy and hot.
Mnemosyne
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Elie is a Black woman. You may want to consider your next response carefully.
LanceThruster
@Belafon:
Yes…because there’s noooo validity to *that* representation of Chosanistan. They kill with impunity and without consequences just like Hillary.
And they do it on our dime.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
from Adam’s update, and a third who was taken after a shoot out with police?
Adam L Silverman
@median: http://dfw.cbslocal.com/cbsn-live-streaming-video-from-cbs-news/
Elie
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
I am saying your white entitled ass is ignorant of the cost for black people. I am at home in WA state for now, but I am not a couch sitter who has had no role in racial justice, so step back. You do understand, don’t you, your relative entitled position in US racial affairs? White folks do not have the usual concerns for consequences that black people do — you do not have to weigh real loss when challenging the man like we do. That is just a fact. Its not your place to throw down that challenge for black people. I am just fine however, if we fight to the last drop of YOUR blood or the blood of your kin and loved ones. Its the unselfish thing to do for a fine white person such as yourself….A model of white rectitude and racial nobility, I am sure…
Omnes Omnibus
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Figure out who you are talking to. Me, I am vanilla custard. I bet I was at protests before you were born. But that isn’t the point, people of color are talking and you are trying to stomp on them. Stop it.
CaseyL
I wish we had a quick, temporary banhammer for pinheads who like to show off their considerable shortcomings in threads like these.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Adam L Silverman: My slack was at #340. If I were a person of prayer, I’d pray for this to end without more bloodshed. Tonight at least.
Belafon
@LanceThruster:
This gives me exactly zero reason to take you seriously.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Actually, I was in my high school civics AP class watching the second plane crash into the twin towers.
Hugh Hewitts a right winger right?
I’m a left winger, so try again!
max
@Adam L Silverman: We’re on the same page, I’ve got that all in the updates.
{thumbs up} DPD presser ~12:30 CDT.
I’ve heard two videos of shooting but the too many echoes from the parking garage to clear up what was being used.
The two guys detained on I-35E Southbound released.
max
[‘…still looking for shooters.’]
kylefresh
https://twitter.com/JayAcosta/status/751282747952361474
video from the shoot-out
median
@Adam L Silverman: thanks {shakes subside}
danielx
@Miss Bianca:
What, you thought things would improve? Once one falls over the precipice of degeneracy, there’s no going back.
Aleta
News says two people have been released by DPD. Since photo of the innocent guy who carried gun is still.out there, I worry where he can go when released.
LanceThruster
@Belafon:
Yes…accurate assessments often cause cognitive dissonance.
Adam L Silverman
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): What picture are you all talking about?
Belafon
Miss Bianca
@Mnemosyne: that *didn’t* happen to my ex, thank God, who was cast as one of the “Most Wanted” on that show. A particularly brutal rapist, as I recall. Every time that episode went into reruns I was a little afraid – after all, the last thing you really want for your husband or boyfriend is have him identified as “that guy on America’s Most Wanted!”
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Elie:
Yup, Trump’s Cray-Cray.
Elie
@LesBonnesFemmes:
Beautiful sentiments… I will take your advice and take a breath — and focus on what is good and what happened that could have been much much worse (as Adam suggests). Thanks for the timely reminder..
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Omnes Omnibus:
Yeah, like you weren’t one of the first ones to throw stones in this thread.
Stomp? Where have I stomped on anyone?
LanceThruster
@Belafon:
The IDF has been actively involved in training many of our police departments, btw.
Look it up.
chopper
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
no, you’re on the internet arguing with people.
Belafon
@LanceThruster: As if that’s what I was talking about.
LanceThruster
@Omnes Omnibus:
Convention hasn’t nominated her yet, no matter how much it’s painted that it has.
Deal.
Mothra
http://www.cbsnews.com/live/video/suspect-whose-photo-circulated-has-turned-himself-in/
Local CBS station live feed
LanceThruster
@Belafon:
Well if *you* don’t kniw what you were talking about, don’t expect me to.
Adam L Silverman
@?BillinGlendaleCA: The only good news is Trump hasn’t tweeted about this mess yet. I even went and checked.
(the things I do for you all)
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@chopper:
It’s an ongoing struggle my friend!
I hope to see you out there with us!
No Justice! No Peace!
Omnes Omnibus
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Learn to read. Then come back. A black woman was talking to you and you white-splained to her.
Belafon
@LanceThruster: BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Mnemosyne
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Sweet Jesus, I’m old enough to be your mother, and you’re lecturing me about The Struggle?
Omnes was protesting South African apartheid while you were still being toilet trained. Sit down, little boy.
(Edited so geography wasn’t confusing)
Adam L Silverman
@LanceThruster: And the Palestinian Security Forces too.
LanceThruster
@Adam L Silverman:
Very true.
Run, Lillian!
So, Joe Walsh tried to delete his disgusting tweet, but people keep reposting it for him.
Omnes Omnibus
@LanceThruster: Dude, she will be the nominee. Accept it.
Elie
@PeakVT:
We are a great country (maybe not THE greatest, but I can’t think which is better). We are having a hard time during a period of great change and all our scabs and unhealed wounds are inflamed and causing us great pain. The good thing is that we see and feel it, so we have an opportunity to treat our wounds though it may take time to heal. The time of recovery after wounding or illness can sometimes make the patient and family feel hopeless, but we just have to stick it out until the fever breaks…
Emma
@Mnemosyne: I had pegged him as an 18 year old the first time he showed up. Cocky, arrogant, and impressed with himself. I wasn’t that far off.
LanceThruster
@Adam L Silverman:
PA lackeys?
You do know that resisting occupiers by force is a right under international law, no?
Prescott Cactus
4 dead. More wounded.
Could we have a little respect for people who have been murdered.
Maybe set petty politics aside for just, maybe tonight.
Maybe help those who need the help get thru this.
Is it asking too fukin’ much ?
Belafon
@Run, Lillian!: I’ve also seen that a number of people are reporting it to the Secret Service.
Miss Bianca
@Adam L Silverman: I’m not sure whether to laugh at that.
Amir Khalid
@LanceThruster:
Is the convention likely to nominate someone else?
Adam L Silverman
@Run, Lillian!: Another person who doesn’t seem to understand how any of this works.
Belafon
@Prescott Cactus: Maybe we can offer thoughts and prayers like Dan Patrick has offered tonight.
Edit: Greg Abbott has offered them as well.
LanceThruster
@Omnes Omnibus:
‘Will’ and ‘is’ do not mean the same thing. You seem to struggle with definitions. I’d love to hear you try to justify your ‘gun nut’ smear against me, you sanctimonious POS.
Miss Bianca
@Mnemosyne: I was wondering whether I’d have to point out some troublesome facts of life to Junior.
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Uh…well, yeah. I figured the hotness was implied. Cuz seriously, consider the source…how not? : )
Omnes Omnibus
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: @Mnemosyne: JHB, step the fuck off. People around here have been on the forefront of shit since before you were born. We ain’t dismissing your efforts, but we reject the fuck out of your suggestion that you invented protesting.
LanceThruster
@Amir Khalid:
Superdelegates have incredible leeway. It’s not over till the lady in the Chairman Mao pantsuit sings.
Omnes Omnibus
@LanceThruster: Eh, blow me.
Adam L Silverman
@LanceThruster: I think you misunderstood what I was saying. Just briefly: the US Security Coordinator, which is a general officer/flag officer commanded assignment (usually its a 3 star billet), in Israel in conjunction with the US Consulate General in Jerusalem, which is basically our embassy to the Palestinians (also our oldest diplomatic outpost), coordinates and oversees a coalition based approach to train the Palestinian Authority Security Forces (PASF). This includes everything from police to fire and EMS to what would become the Palestinian Army and Intelligence Services should we ever be able to negotiate the too long in coming peace and independent Palestinian State. The Israelis are involved with this training. At times the actions of the IDF in all three areas of the West Bank make life difficult for the Palestinian Authority Security Forces, which makes them look like quislings and lackeys. But my understanding is that, overall, the PASF is well regarded by the Palestinians living in the West Bank.
Miss Bianca
@danielx: I’m trying to hold on and think about all the stuff that *didn’t* go wrong, as Adam pointed out. An ill-favored comfort, sir, but mine own…
magurakurin
So, is anyone considering the possibility that the shooters are white? I suppose we will know very soon.
Adam L Silverman
@Miss Bianca: Same thing we do every night Pinky…
max
Right.
One female suspect detained at El Centro garage.
One suspect currently cornered on second floor of El Centro garage and he is apparently saying that he’s going to kill a bunch more cops before he goes out.
The two suspects detained on I-35E southbound (in Oak Cliff) are NOT released.
Mark Hughes may or may not detained.
max
[‘?’]
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Mnemosyne:
You know we are on the same side right?
Police Brutality, Income Inequality, Mass Incarceration…these are the issues at the moment. I don’t need to “sit down” while my brothers and sisters are murdered. WE ALL NEED TO STAND UP, TOGETHER!
But by all means, go on with your condescending attitude, ageist.
Miss Bianca
@Adam L Silverman: Err…ask Mnemosyne.
Elie
@Omnes Omnibus:
Thank you. Well said. Its good for all of us to acknowledge we have all put some of our skin in this, but the answers are tough and every generation has to fight on… while respecting what has gone before — and respecting what the cost can be.Also.
Suzanne
@magurakurin: I am assuming they are white until we know otherwise, as mass shooters are overwhelmingly white.
LanceThruster
@Amir Khalid:
It was in response to Omnes who felt the need for an obligatory Bernie dig. My first comment/inquiry was about a statement speculating on the firearm being used for the attack.
Any of the other back and forth is because I try to respond to those who comment on my posts, no matter how ad hominem.
Miss Bianca
@Adam L Silverman: Damn, you got a laugh out of me. That’s more than I would have expected even of you, tonight! Well-done!
magurakurin
Looks like this shooter isn’t white. Man, this is some serious fucked up shit.
Belafon
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: The “I’m a big boy, pay attention to me” is only going to get people mad at you. If you truly care, you need to tone it down and realize you’re one of many people who have protested, and throwing “I’ve protested” isn’t going to get you anything.
Omnes Omnibus
@LanceThruster: You are who you are.
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
Sometimes us girls need to get together and giggle over a little beefcake during times of stress. Do we need to draw you a picture?
;-)
dogwood
@Elie:
You are a wise woman.
LanceThruster
@Omnes Omnibus:
Uh, no thanks. You seem to be doing a spanking job of it yourself.
Adam L Silverman
@Miss Bianca: To quote some guy named Oakenshield: “We like the dark, for dark business.”
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Omnes Omnibus:
That’s awesome! And I’m just excited is all.
When the fuck did I say I invented protesting? I reject the fuck out of people who tell me to “sit down”.
Miss Bianca
@Elie: hope you are doing OK, Ms. E. Haven’t had much of a chance to say howdy in the midst of this madness. Just really, really sorry this went down and trying hard not to feel afraid of what’s going to come. Hugs to you!
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: I’m now tracking.
Villago Delenda Est
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: You know, throwing insulting terms at people is not a good way to persuade them to seeing your point of view.
(This is the usual place where one would put an insulting name, but I’ll resist the temptation, which is strong)
rikyrah
@Adam L Silverman:
Suspects getting away in a Mercedes?
Miss Bianca
@Mnemosyne: Well, I thought you might *show* him the picture…there’s got to be a quick and dirty way to find that link in that upstairs (or is it downstairs?) thread, but I haven’t mastered it yet.
Amir Khalid
@LanceThruster:
Which, given their 30+ year history of not overturning the expressed will of primary voters and the absence of a reason to do so now, they will probably not exercise to prevent Hillary’s nomination. You are clutching at straws.
Perhaps you have something relevant to say about the Dallas shooting.
LanceThruster
@Adam L Silverman:
That’s certainly possible. I’m not trying to derail the thread, but I’ll defend myself wben someone asserts that calling out Israel for being an apartheid state indicates some sort of anti-Jewish bigotry.
Mnemosyne
@Miss Bianca:
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):
The only type of gun show that interests me. Also includes bonus puppy!
And with that, I should probably call it a night.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Belafon:
I post in Solidarity with Black Lives Matter.
Random Balloon Juicers tell me to sit the fuck down and shut up.
I respond with honesty.
Random Balloon Juicers concern troll.
eyelessgame
Almost every conceivable scenario where you’re actually “opposing tyranny” with your personal store of guns starts out with shooting at *local* authorities. Police. Anybody who doesn’t support these shooters can now SHUT THE FUCK UP FOREVER about owning guns in order to “oppose tyranny”.
LanceThruster
@Amir Khalid:
Look at my very first comment. The candidate issue was raised by Omnes, not me.
Adam L Silverman
@rikyrah: Those were the two people they pursued and got on I 35 near downtown.
magurakurin
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: this just doesn’t seem like the time or place for you to be having this argument. But, whatever wiggles your waggle.
Villago Delenda Est
@magurakurin: It’s extremely fucked up shit in a country where allowing anyone to purchase military small arms is no big deal.
Belafon
@LanceThruster: Actually, I wasn’t even bothering with what you said. The fact that you even felt the need to put “Zionist” in anything associated with Israel says loads about you.
eyelessgame
(I feel compelled to point out that I am not even remotely among any hypothetical supporters of these murderers. Just that this happens to be what “opposing tyranny with your guns” actually looks like.
Omnes Omnibus
@LanceThruster: Your choice of candidate doesn’t enter into it? Let’s be honest…
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Villago Delenda Est:
You do realize the comment you referenced shows me being insulted right?
Adam L Silverman
@LanceThruster: Its not just possible, its fact. The coalition of folks working to train the PASF includes the Brits, Canadians, Germans, Dutch, French, Jordanians, and many others.
http://www.state.gov/s/ussc/
magurakurin
@Villago Delenda Est: Taking all unresolved issues of the cultural and societal corruption that slavery produced and the resulting and enduring racism and then mixing it together with massive amounts of freely available weaponry is really looking like a bad idea. Maybe it’s time to get honest about racism in society and restricted the availability of firearms a thousand fold. Nah…won’t happen. Jesus wept.
LanceThruster
@Amir Khalid:
You want to cite historical precedent, FDR won a contested convention. If SD’s in states that Bernie won can say they’re voting for Hillary, then ‘democratic’ is a bit of a stretch.
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: It takes a big man to own a tiny dog!
Aleta
Possible yes, since there are whites extremists who hate the police, whites who are eager for end times, and whites who advocate starting a race war.
magurakurin
@LanceThruster:
?????????
Mnemosyne
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Fix’d. Though, technically, a Black Balloon-Juicer told you to sit the fuck down and shut up, and you whitesplained to her why she was wrong while the rest of us tried to clue you in that maybe telling a Black woman she didn’t understand Black Lives Matter was not the best idea.
But you’ve never shown any ability to learn so far, so why start now when you can instead complain about all the mean old people who mock you when you say “No Justice, No Peace” without any understanding of where the phrase came from?
Omnes Omnibus
@LanceThruster: Jesus, get a grip.
LanceThruster
@Belafon:
‘Zionism’ does not mean ‘Jews.’ I learned my anti-Zionism from principled Jews.
Amir Khalid
@LanceThruster:
And of course, honour demanded that you react. You could have just let it be.
Bobby Thomson
@LanceThruster: Raul Grijalva; Marcy Kaptur; Alan Grayson. Christ, you’re an idiot.
Miss Bianca
@LanceThruster: Keep lancing that chicken, big guy…
median
This is an encouraging image: our POI calmly handing over his AR-15 to a white police officer who calmly takes it and hands him a business card. https://amp.twimg.com/v/256d04e0-6728-443b-a3ce-786a13ab28e9
That, and the big man with the tiny dog, are hopefully the two images I’ll dream about.
Egads. This fucking day.
LanceThruster
@Adam L Silverman:
I don’t want to digress too much but my point about the IDF training US LEO’s is that the IDF treats an entire segment of its population as one that can be abused and killed with impunity.
US police forces are becoming more paramilitary and treat the public like the enemy. Often they act like a Praetorian guard for power, both historically and present day.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Mnemosyne:
So tell me, where does No Justice No Peace originate?
LanceThruster
@Bobby Thomson:
Fuck you, whoever you are, whatever your point.
Adam L Silverman
@LanceThruster: I’ve taught and trained American law enforcement. And I’ve worked on the DOD portion of the Israeli-Palestinian Peace negotiations in 2014. I’m aware.
different-church-lady
Just an observation, but if anyone told me I was white’splaining anything to anyone, I’d be taking myself off to the side and asking myself, “Whoa, just where did I go wrong on that one?”
LanceThruster
@Amir Khalid:
I’ll be sure to get your permission first next time, Amir…umkay?
Amir Khalid
@LanceThruster:
Hillary won more states than Bernie won. She won states more populous than Bernie won. If superdelegates were apportioned according to the pledged-delegate allocation in their respective states, she would still lead in SDs and would still be the presumptive nominee.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@LanceThruster:
Did you hear the State Dept is investigating Clinton again?
Mnemosyne
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Start with 1992 and see if you can puzzle it out.
LanceThruster
@Adam L Silverman:
Thank you for your thoughful responses.
PurpleGirl
@PurpleGirl: I don’t want to sound callous but at 64 i lived with hope that the future would be better but now with all that has happened this week I can’t handle it. It is so depressing.
Not sure if it was this thread but someone asked about first remembered political event remembered. I remember watching the 1960 Democratic Convention on TV.
Back to Patience’s kittens at Foster Dad John’s cam. (Three little kitteh boys, 2 little kitteh girls passed; they were premmies.)
Mnemosyne
@LanceThruster:
Given the full stretch of US history, what makes you think that the US LEO’s are learning that behavior rather than teaching it?
John Lewis posted pictures today of his mug shot after having been arrested 55 years ago for using the whites-only bathroom. And you think Israel is teaching apartheid to us?
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@different-church-lady:
Normally that would be true, but since it’s one of her go to calumnies against me I just shrug it off.
LanceThruster
@Amir Khalid:
There were vote irregularities and indications of vote fraud and voter roll purges.
If a large percentage of Sanders supporters won’t vote Hillary, but Hillary supporters argue ‘vote blue no matter who,’ Sanders would be a stronger nominee.
Whether or not you feel Hillary’s baggage is unfair…she’s got tons of it. It’s not just the right wing that doesn’t trust her.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Mnemosyne:
You mean she had a private server in 1992?!!! And here I was thinking Al Gore invented the Internet! Clinton was light years ahead.
Aleta
@PurpleGirl:
by Wendall Barry
scav
Somehow the phrase about certain people insisting on being the bride at every wedding and the corpse at every funeral seems applicable here.
LanceThruster
@Mnemosyne:
The focus on anti-terrorism and the subsequent erosion of rights makes us all targets. Israel just capitalizes on that reality.
LanceThruster
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
At this point, ir’s hard to tell witch hunt from credible legal inquiries. I see too many claims from right wing sites I hate.
different-church-lady
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: You’re really not getting this, are you?
Mnemosyne
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
I know, it’s so weird that every time you whitesplain something to a Black commenter, one of us mean old people points out that you did it. If we would just stop pointing out that you whitesplained to a Black person, no one would ever know!
Still waiting to see if you can figure out the puzzle of what happened in 1992. Were you even born yet?
LanceThruster
@Omnes Omnibus:
Running away from your ‘gun nut’ smear like the coward you are, I see.
Amir Khalid
@LanceThruster:
Have you any evidence at all that these things were the work of the Hillary campaign? No, you don’t; there is no such evidence.
Rob Lll
@Elie:
Wise, strong words at a dark moment. Thanks for sharing this, Elie.
LanceThruster
@Mnemosyne:
They’re helping to militarize the police’s approach to it. Since the days of union busting, police forces have often been willing thugs for oppression. Their origins are closely related to slave intimidation and containment as well, I learned.
LanceThruster
@Amir Khalid:
Actually, some Hillary people were implicated.
Amir Khalid
@LanceThruster:
Implicated by whom? Bernie supporters? They don’t have a lot of credibility with me, I’m sorry.
Adam L Silverman
Alright folks, I’m for bed. I’m sure AL will be along shortly with an open thread or something to get you all through to daybreak.
Adam L Silverman
CBS 11 is reporting that DPD has achieved the outcome that they wanted in the standoff in the El Centro garage. A flashbang was used to bring this to resolution.
scav
@Adam L Silverman: Do we have to track you down and forcibly tuck you into bed now? Thanks for another update.
Adam L Silverman
@scav: I’m racking out shortly.
Keith G
Go to bed early, and one is likely to wake up in a whole different world. It is interesting to come to a thread like this after it is over and read how it plays out and see how the various parts are played by the folks here.
Amid the chaos and the hyper-emotionalism, Adam does bring an amazing amount of well-appreciated stability to threads like this.
It is frustrating, sad, and ultimately embarrassing that we have allowed our society to remain as violent as it is when so many other modern societies have managed to diminish the results of humankind’s innately violent tendencies.
Chris
@Feathers:
I just finished a book on the (relatively speaking) downfall of the American Mafia over the second half of the twentieth century. According to the author, seems that a big part of the process was simply the federal government developing the willingness to roll up its sleeves and start going after a category of crime that had previously been seen as beneath them and/or not their business.
On the one hand, the syndicates’ operations were often beyond any individual jurisdiction, but on the other hand, they were deeply entrenched in local and state politics. Those two things taken together made it very difficult for cops and staties to go after them. Only the feds had the resources and the reach to do real damage. As you said about the veterans coming home from World War Two and the G. I. Bill, having a degree of separation from the mob’s world was a big help.
While the author doesn’t go into this, I also speculate that the downfall of political machines over that same time period probably contributed a lot, since machine politics and organized crime usually went together like peas in a pod. That in turn would tie the process in with the results of the liberal reforms of the 20th century – the building of the welfare state, the rise of the middle class nation, the integration of the “ethnic white” immigrant communities in which the mob and many of the political machines were rooted.
Chris
@Mnemosyne:
Oh, I’m sure. MS-13 and some of the other major street gangs have absolutely been doing that, so it’d be no surprise if the skinheads were doing it as well.
LanceThruster
@Amir Khalid:
http://theantimedia.org/heres-a-rundown-of-election-fraud-in-the-2016-presidential-race-so-far/
LanceThruster
@Adam L Silverman:
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/u-s-police-routinely-travel-israel-learn-methods-brutality-repression/#RYLFbWdgIkwEkT8u.99
LanceThruster
http://controversialtimes.com/news/the-gun-used-by-the-dallas-police-murderer-is-revealed-its-not-what-most-people-thought/