Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.

Authoritarian republicans are opposed to freedom for the rest of us.

Today’s GOP: why go just far enough when too far is right there?

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

So it was an October Surprise A Day, like an Advent calendar but for crime.

You don’t get rid of your umbrella while it’s still raining.

I like you, you’re my kind of trouble.

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Red lights blinking on democracy’s dashboard

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

They fucked up the fucking up of the fuckup!

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

Hot air and ill-informed banter

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

Prediction: the GOP will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

This fight is for everything.

Conservatism: there are some people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

A dilettante blog from the great progressive state of West Virginia.

I’d hate to be the candidate who lost to this guy.

The next time the wall street journal editorial board speaks the truth will be the first.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. let’s win this.

Their freedom requires your slavery.

Republicans in disarray!

If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.

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Reader Interactions

167Comments

  1. 1.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    Thanks for this. I need to get some sleep. I can only hope it won’t get too much worse.

  2. 2.

    patroclus

    Good. The other thread is degenerating into a totally inappropriate Dem primary battle. Hopefully, this one will focus on what’s actually happening. CNN’s got actual video of the shooter from a guy who taped it from his hotel room. The suspect’s car is clearly identifiable. He shot one cop execution style. The DPD also caught two others on I35 trying to escape in their car. Many others are in custody but who knows whether they had anything to do with it. The DPD, as metropolitan police go, have a pretty good reputation although obviously this will test them mightily. After JFK, they did institute a LOT of reforms (I used to live in Ft. Worth). I think everyone should remain calm and refrain from making statements that merely confirm biases until more is known. This is terrible news.

  3. 3.

    Adam L Silverman

    @patroclus: You have a link to that CNN vid so I can put it up as an update, I just went over there and didn’t find it.

  5. 5.

    patroclus

    @Adam L Silverman: No. I’m just watching the TV. They’re not showing it just now anyway. And it’s from far away and kind of grainy anyway. I’m sure they’ll turn it over to the police though and can blow it up and be able to identify the shooter better.

  7. 7.

    Mnemosyne

    @patroclus:

    The one situation where Radley Balko’s opinion can make me feel better is when he said that DPD is actually pretty good as far as big city police departments go. I will try to stay calm until Mark Hughes (hopefully) gets safely released once the initial flurry of events dies down.

  8. 8.

    lamh36

    Adam, some folks saying looking at footage so far seems like shooter had some sort of tactical training?

  9. 9.

    Amir Khalid

    Through many dangers, toils, and snares
    We have already come
    T’was Grace has brought us safe thus far
    And Grace will lead us home

    It’s a thought to hold on to, as you deal with yet another senseless firearms tragedy in America. My own thoughts are with you.

  11. 11.

    RaflW

    We’ve been on vacation for less than 72 hours and the US has gone even further to shit. Man.

  12. 12.

    lamh36

    Oh and Walsh is now backtracking…after deleting the tweet, but screencap is former bro!

    @WalshFreedom
    I wasn’t calling for violence, against Obama or anyone. Obama’s words & BLM’s deeds have gotten cops killed. Time for us to defend our cops.

    Uh huh…cry me a river dude

  14. 14.

    patroclus

    @Adam L Silverman: That’s it. The shooter, from my vantage point, looks male and you can identify his clothing and his car but little else. It would appear that things are calming down and there are no active incidents still ongoing. There was a report of another holed-up person of interest but that turned out to be not active.

  16. 16.

    Adam L Silverman

    @lamh36: The clip I watched and posted in comment #10 makes it impossible to tell. Looks like he approached and just kept shooting at the cop he murdered until he was down and then kept shooting into him. That doesn’t tell me much of anything.

  17. 17.

    hovercraft

    @lamh36:
    This is one of the most useful uses of twitter, it allows people to show us who they truly are without the filter of their handlers. Screen grabs mean they can never make it go away. Walsh is a piece of shit, dead beat dad he is a disgrace.

  19. 19.

    Adam L Silverman

    @lamh36: One other item on this: it is incredibly easy to get tactical training in the US. There are large numbers of classes in almost every state that one can take. Some of them are done really well. Some are not. But getting tactical training, whatever that really means, isn’t hard.

  20. 20.

    Mnemosyne

    Just to drive poor Patroclus nuts, it does seem like there are only two logical possibilities for perps here: white supremacists or anarchists of whatever race (like the groups that have been fucking shit up here in California that are generally multiracial). Option 1 seems like the most logical one to me, but I was totally wrong about the Tsarnaevs, so I guess we’ll find out.

    ETA: Option 3 would be more #ISIS assholes.

    ETA #2: IMO, the Tsarnaevs were #ISIS assholes ahead of the curve, but it’s late and this comment is almost out of time.

  21. 21.

    lamh36

    @speechboy71
    I shudder thinking about Trump’s statement later today about this

  22. 22.

    lamh36

    @WWLTV 32s33 seconds ago
    Dallas Chief: Suspect says ‘end is coming’ and he will kill more officers. Claims bombs are in garage where he is in shootout with officers.

  23. 23.

    gf120581

    @lamh36: So far, only Joe Walsh has been stupid enough to jump the gun tonight, as far as I know.

    Either Trump’s asleep or his aides have all of his accesses to social media on lockdown out of desperation.

  25. 25.

    WarMunchkin

    Apparently there’s a crowd having a confrontation with police at a 7/11, something about no buses arriving.

  27. 27.

    patroclus

    3, possibly 4, potential perps, three male, 1 female. One incident still ongoing, with uncooperative male, who is still shooting and making bomb threats holed up on 2nd story of parking garage. Police considering how to end the standoff.

  29. 29.

    gf120581

    @patroclus: And suspect is apparently a complete whackadoo screaming about “the end is coming.” Yeesh.

    I was in Dallas just a couple of months ago. To see this going down by what I like to call “the green building” is disturbing.

  30. 30.

    CaseyL

    @patroclus: DPD spokesperson says he doesn’t “have a comfort level” that all suspects are in custody, and the suspect still shooting in the parking garage says there are bombs planted “strategically” all over the city. What the ever-loving fuck?

  32. 32.

    Mary G

    Adam, my cats hated the bagpipe. Much more than the fireworks on Monday. I am wondering if it is plural but too lazy to look it up.

  33. 33.

    ? Martin

    Bryan Williams: “Busiest night in the history of Dallas Texas.”

    Really? You don’t think there was a busier night maybe in 1963?

  34. 34.

    Mike in DC

    4 total suspects, 1 of them still holed up. 1 female. No physical description of any of them. What that means I don’t know.

  35. 35.

    max

    @Adam L Silverman: The clip I watched and posted in comment #10 makes it impossible to tell. Looks like he approached and just kept shooting at the cop he murdered until he was down and then kept shooting into him. That doesn’t tell me much of anything.

    As far as I could see it looked like the cop was sheltering behind the pillar and he was getting shot at from the other side, when the guy on the vid charged in with a handgun and got in behind the cop and shot. I couldn’t see how many shots.

    Didn’t look like tactical training to me, just looked like a crazy SOB with a handgun.

    max
    [‘Unless he knew the sniper position.’]

  37. 37.

    lamh36

    @? Martin: Oh good Lord

    @speechboy71 5m5 minutes ago
    Brian Williams just compared what’s happening in downtown Dallas to “the end of days.”
    @speechboy71 3m3 minutes ago
    Now Williams just said that this has been the “busiest night in the history of Dallas.” You know a president was killed in Dallas

    ‏@sportjames23 48s48 seconds ago
    @speechboy71 Allison Williams needs to come get her dad.

  39. 39.

    gf120581

    @CaseyL: Sounds like a threat to keep the cops from taking him down. But given what’s happened tonight, the authorities can’t discount it.

  40. 40.

    Adam L Silverman

    @max: I saw a rifle. The guy that approaches from the left and shoots him is definitely using a rifle. What he does when he comes around next to the cop is unclear. He might have been taking his gun. But he then shoots him several more times with the rifle before going off the screen to the right.

  41. 41.

    max

    @gf120581: I was in Dallas just a couple of months ago. To see this going down by what I like to call “the green building” is disturbing.

    It’s the color of money, of course.

    @CaseyL: DPD spokesperson says he doesn’t “have a comfort level” that all suspects are in custody, and the suspect still shooting in the parking garage says there are bombs planted “strategically” all over the city. What the ever-loving fuck?

    Read: Unclear on number of snipers OR shooter(s) on street. Fire coming in from everywhere. Cops pinned in crossfire.

    Planned shooting position.

    max
    [‘Shooters using crowds as de facto camo.’]

  42. 42.

    lamh36

    @Mike in DC:
    I’ll be honest and say my first thoughts were just this:

    @txvoodoo 53s54 seconds ago
    As a friend says to me, we know this guy in the parking garage is white, b/c they’re negotiating with him.

    Though I know it’s likely cause of the bomb threats

  43. 43.

    Amir Khalid

    @Mary G:
    Well, you can imagine what bagpipes sound like to a cat: two tomcats arguing, just before the point where claws come out and they get stuck in. That would make any uninvolved cat not comfortable, methinks.

  45. 45.

    Suzanne

    What happened to Mary G?? Someone said in another thread that someone called 911???? Is she okay? I worked late today and I hope she’s all right……

  48. 48.

    ? Martin

    I don’t know if it’s encouraging or suspicious that the suspects’ race hasn’t been mentioned.

  51. 51.

    Mai.naem.mobile

    I guess Cheeto Jesus hasn’t tweeted yet because his baby hands need to go to sleep like a baby.

  53. 53.

    CaseyL

    @Suzanne: Mary G is fine, I think. The EMTs came by and Mary said one of them was a real cutie. So many BJers were calling 911 the EMTs asked Mary to tell them to please stop.

  56. 56.

    Miss Bianca

    Well, I’ll catch you all on the flip side, gentlebeings. Time for some fictional violence to take my mind off real-time same. Thank you, Adam, for staying on top of this, even tho’ I know you wish you didn’t have to be on top of things like this quite so often. : (

    Wishing you all a safe and not-unsleepless night.

  58. 58.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Mary G:

    Apart from responding briefly and with good wishes to your original request for assistance, I haven’t had a chance — or the threads were so long it seemed futile — but I’m so glad everything worked out so well for you, complete with all that good food from neighbours. And it sounds as though you suffered very little damage (except maybe to your dignity), and that makes me happy.

    The entire episode, though, speaks volumes about the heart of this Balloon Juice community. And that makes me VERY happy!

  59. 59.

    lamh36

    Said it already, but has to be said again…

    Good Lord Brian Williams

    @adept2u 9m9 minutes ago
    Brian Williams postulates it’s an Urban Army of Black revenge and to you CIA asset for confirmation #msnbc

  61. 61.

    Miss Bianca

    @Mary G: btw, before I go:

    Adam, my cats hated the bagpipe.

    coming right out of the blue for me with no context, was my second big laugh of the night. Hope you are well and stay well!

  63. 63.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Suzanne: She’s fine. She fell, didn’t get hurt, but got stuck and couldn’t get up. Didn’t have her phone, but had her tablet. Posted a comment here at Balloon Juice asking for someone to call 9-11 for her. After a slight delay for emails to be exchanged with her address, 9-11 was called (at least five times!), and EMS got to her. Cole, BettyC, Raven, and a couple of others did yeoman’s and yeowoman’s work getting her taken care of.

  64. 64.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @lamh36: Well, the snipers are in the same time zone as the protesters, so if that’s not ironclad causality, Joe Walsh wouldn’t be twiting up a storm about it.

  66. 66.

    Mnemosyne

    @lamh36:

    Okay, I know I needed some comic relief, because that second tweet made me laugh out loud.

    Though it still doesn’t beat “MR. SANDERS U DON’T HAVE A DAY PASS!”

  68. 68.

    Adam L Silverman

    @lamh36: @rikyrah: It may also be because he’s claimed he’s placed bombs throughout Dallas. While that may just be him BSing the negotiators, if they can take him alive and unharmed, it increases their ability to deal with that potential threat. If he’s shot and rendered unconscious or dead, he’s no help.

  70. 70.

    Miss Bianca

    @Mnemosyne: Nothing beats “MR SANDERS U DON’T HAVE A DAY PASS”. Nothing.

    OK, I really am off, now. And not only that, I’m leaving.

  72. 72.

    lamh36

    FYI Adam…I know the press conference the Chief said POI, and in the other thread I think someone posted a tweet that we weren’t sure was from the official DPD twitter account.

    Well this is the official account and here is the tweet that says “@DallasPD 2h2 hours ago
    This is one of our suspects. Please help us find him!

    Not to belabor the point or anything, just an FYI.

    you may have actually already ended that discussion, but I just happened to see this tweet in passing before going off to bed.

    ETA: Oh and the tweet is still up, but does have a disclaimer that it’s not updated 24/7, except the account has been updating steadily since shooting.

  74. 74.

    Mnemosyne

    @lamh36:

    To be fair, negotiating with the suspect is what should ALWAYS happen. Having the police become even more trigger-happy than they are now would not be an improvement.

  76. 76.

    Suzanne

    @CaseyL: Well, if she was going to have EMTs coming by to help her, at least she got a hottie for eye candy! So glad she’s okay.

    You know, sometimes I can be a snarky asshole, but this is a great community, for reals. Thanks to all who called EMS! Good deed for day: DONE.

  78. 78.

    lamh36

    and now Williams has some on on the phone talking about what was said or what the mood at the protest was prior to the shooting…i.e. the cynic in me thinks trying to link protest to creation of enviroment that lead to the snipers shooting?

    Hmmm…that’s my clue to get ready to go to bed. Thank goodness I’m off work tomorrrow.

  80. 80.

    Barb2

    @lamh36:
    talking heads like Brian Williams is why I’m a cord cutter. These idiots in the talking head yak yak always seem to be wrong. And they whip up mob hysteria.

    Thanks to all of you for reporting on what the idiot media is getting wrong. (And rarely right).

    So sad for the victims and their families.

    I’m betting that the shooters are white.

  86. 86.

    CaseyL

    @lamh36: He’s got to fill empty air with…airheaded chat. One of the many reasons I don’t watch TV news anymore, even for major stories like this. They run out of actual information but have to keep talking, at which point the broadcast turns into a clown show.

  88. 88.

    Mnemosyne

    @lamh36:

    We discussed it in the thread below and I think we agreed that the dumbasses in the Public Information Office need to get their shit together.

  89. 89.

    hamletta

    There was also a triple shooting in Baton Rouge tonight, just a few blocks from where Alton Sterling was shot. No real details yet.

    When it rains, it pours.

  97. 97.

    Aleta

    @lamh36: yet the Dallas PD still has his photo up on their twitter asking people to help locate him. Though he has gone to them again and hopefully cleared.

  99. 99.

    CaseyL

    Gah. It’s 11:30 and I have to go to work tomorrow.

    ‘Night, everyone. Here’s hoping there are no new horrors tomorrow.

  100. 100.

    max

    @Aleta: yet the Dallas PD still has his photo up on their twitter asking people to help locate him. Though he has gone to them again and hopefully cleared.

    Chris Hughes is getting death threats and Mark Hughes is on TV goin’ ‘Duuuuuuddddddddeeeeeeeeee’.

    Mark got notified that someone had dumped his picture to the media that’s why he turned his rifle to the cops on the spot.

    max
    [‘Poor bastard.’]

  101. 101.

    patroclus

    Explosion heard at the standoff. No one knows whether it was a bomb or an attempt by DPD to end the standoff. They also don’t know whether the perp is still alive.

  102. 102.

    rikyrah

    @Adam L Silverman: You might be right. The bomb threat could be what kept the suspect alive. We all know that cops don’t care about bringing in suspected cop killers.
    So much of this is odd : rifles, snipers, bombs (???), and a Mercedes Benz as a get away car?
    Do these pieces not fit together for anyone else?

  103. 103.

    hamletta

    @Aleta: He’s on live TV in Dallas (CBS) being interviewed. His innocence has been tweeted all over for the last hour or more. He’ll be OK.

  105. 105.

    max

    @rikyrah: So much of this is odd : rifles, snipers, bombs (???), and a Mercedes Benz as a get away car? Do these pieces not fit together for anyone else?

    No, they don’t fit together. Particularly since we have video of a guy skulking up on a sheltering cop with a handgun and shooting the cop.

    In any event, Chris Hughes is very very smart man.

    max
    [‘Which helps, but not near enough.’]

  106. 106.

    Aleta

    @lamh36: sorry to repeat what you already said. I was skipping around, not reading everything, and have it on my mind because it is so dangerous to him.

  107. 107.

    Prescott Cactus

    It’s better to rust than fade away.

    Thank you Adam for your effort and especially “graphic” warnings. It helps.

  109. 109.

    Mnemosyne

    @rikyrah:

    I think that, like with most of these situations, there are some unrelated incidents that are getting lumped in that will have to be sorted out over the next few weeks. I remember that when the Tsarnaevs set off their bombs, some other poor schmuck got pointed at first when he hadn’t done anything.

  111. 111.

    RaflW

    Dory & Mark Hughes just did a live stand up with the Dallas local CBS affiliate. What a cluster to have put Mark Hughes photo out on media.

  113. 113.

    Aleta

    poem for sleeping

    The Peace of Wild Things

    When despair for the world grows in me
    and I wake in the night at the least sound
    in fear of what my life and my children’s lives may be,
    I go and lie down where the wood drake
    rests in his beauty on the water, and the great heron feeds.
    I come into the peace of wild things
    who do not tax their lives with forethought
    of grief. I come into the presence of still water.
    And I feel above me the day-blind stars
    waiting with their light. For a time
    I rest in the grace of the world, and am free.

    by Wendall Barry

  114. 114.

    Adam L Silverman

    @rikyrah: I’m a big fan of heated, leather seats and a German tuned suspension when I have to bug out quickly. But I’m funny that way…//

    Actually, I’ve been driving Japanese cars and trucks since I started driving.

    The problem is we only have bits and pieces of information right now. There’s not enough to make sense of anything.

  115. 115.

    Adam L Silverman

    @max: Its Corey. Also, that was a rifle in the video link of the cop being shot while trying to maintain cover behind the column/pillar.

  119. 119.

    scav

    @rikyrah: Could also be a long-term plan (with certain objectives, means, and plans for get-away) modified quickly to take advantage of the demonstration. That might explain any odd combination of elements. Things will become clearer.

  121. 121.

    lamh35

    @Adam L Silverman: ok I saw this just saw this tweet

    If you see a media/org pic of Mark Hughes identifying him as a shooter or a suspect, screenshot it for him. He has a lawsuit. #Dallas

  124. 124.

    hamletta

    @lamh35: Sounds like bullshit to me. He did an interview w/the CBS station where he said he was joking w/officers.

  125. 125.

    Adam L Silverman

    @hamletta: That was before someone in an official capacity decided that he was a person of interest. The issue going forward is going to be, as both brothers brought up in their interview with CBS11, is what is DPD going to do to make sure the word gets out that this was a false identification, that Mark Hughes had nothing to do with the shootings, that an error was made, and that he was completely cleared.

  126. 126.

    Adam L Silverman

    Alright folks, I’m for bed. I’m sure AL will be along shortly with an open thread or something to get you all through to daybreak.

  131. 131.

    Adam L Silverman

    @WarMunchkin: CBS 11 is reporting that DPD has achieved the outcome that they wanted in the standoff in the El Centro garage. A flashbang was used to bring this to resolution.

  132. 132.

    Adam L Silverman

    @rikyrah: Sniper rifle is most likely the wrong term. I doubt that these folks were using a Barret .50 cal, which is one of the best known rifles used by snipers. Or something set up in .338 Lapua, another preferred set up. Its not a precise term, so likely not useful here. Were the shooters sniping? Yes. Were they most likely using rifles set up for dedicated sniper use – as in highly tuned, sighted for very long range shots (over 500 yards and likely out to 1,000 yards), using one of the calibers preferred by snipers? Most likely not.

    I watched the video at the link of the officer that was shot. The shooter was clearly using a rifle. It clearly had a magazine, as he (it appears to be a he) seems to have dumped the magazine into the officer that he murdered. He wasn’t properly shouldering the rifle, but it was at least carbine length.

  133. 133.

    hamletta

    Buuuut…I could be wrong. DPD shouldn’t have used “suspect.” Also, they should have taken down the tweet by now, but I understand they’re kinda busy now, too.

  135. 135.

    Elizabelle

    What a thing to wake up to. I am sorry for the Dallas Police, their families, the community. For all of us.

    My first thought on seeing this all: is someone trying to start a race war? Also, if shooters are using assault weapons against police, maybe that will be another beginning to removing them from civilian hands.

    In happier news, glad that Mary G is doing fine and even better provisioned, though.

  137. 137.

    hamletta

    REAL suspect “neutralized.” Live coverage from local NBC affiliate provides only spectating. No press conference to come tonight.

    “Suspect” tweet on DPD account has been deleted.

  138. 138.

    Seanly

    Terrible, terrible events in Dallas. As much anger as many of us have over yet more police shootings, violence against the police is not the answer. Unfortunately, it will only harden the resolve of police that they’re in enemy territory.
    My favorite version of Amazing Grace ~ Kristin Hersh’s amazing version. I’m an atheist & I want this playing when my body is being thrown in the ditch or set off on an ice floe.

  139. 139.

    max

    @rikyrah: So, were they killed with sniper rifles or handguns.

    The video Adam and I are talking about (right here) has what appears to be a black or dark-skinned Hispanic person (presumably male) wearing white pants, what looks like brown shoes (boots, I think), a reddish shirt and a light brown canvas jacket. (A canvas jacket? When it’s 90+ degrees outside?) He appears to be up against a white pillar. In fact those are the columns just past the front of the El Centro building on N. Lamar street.

    Our shooter is in front of the pillar with the lamp post next to it (which obscures his position on video), the cop at the next pillar over is leaning down and looks like he has either been hit or is trying to duck under fire. The shooter ducks to his left, and then to his right, and finally gets up on the cop and opens up on him. The entire time, it appears there is some kind of gunfire coming from the right off camera. That might be why the cop is leaning down – because he’s getting fire coming in from the right, not from the left where the shooter is.

    Adam is correct, the guy is carrying a long barrel something or another, but it’s obscured because he has the butt of the gun under his jacket. (Possibly why he has the jacket – to hide the weapon he’s carrying underneath it.) He shoots the cop a number of times and then it looks like he unloaded the clip and reloaded. Based on the length of the barrel, that’s going to be something like an AR-15. (Barrel is too long for an AK.)

    So nix the handgun. The obscure part is, given how much ammo the guy must of had, WTF is he carrying it? They’re arguing for tactical training, but to my mind that just looks like a seriously determined dude since he doesn’t seem real concerned about staying behind cover.

    max
    [‘Vid quality is crap.’]

  142. 142.

    Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporatist Shill

    NRA may be in a bind either way – if this was white on blue, blue may call for bans. If black or brown on blue, it might be a Governor Reagan “gotta protect the good people of California” moment.

  144. 144.

    RealityBites

    Read about the 4 year old trying to console her mother after the shooting in MN just before going to sleep. Had tears in my eyes. Now waking up to this horror. Our refusal, as a society, to face the truth of our country’s history helped create these horrors. Too many groups smugly and/or fearfully isolated in their own version of the truth that they are completely blind to the larger story. When will we learn? How much suffering is enough? What will it take to make us respect every life?

  148. 148.

    Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporatist Shill

    My thought is that this was just a matter of time, and was destined to happen (assuming that it is black on blue). Push people against a wall hard enough, and they’ll eventually push back.

    White America will largely blame Obama for the evil of recognizing the existence of the problem and actually speaking about it.

    We really needed a “truth and reconciliation” commission to talk about the experiences of racism and segregation into living memory – that MLK was cut short, the step never taken deprived us of that cathartic experience.

  150. 150.

    dogwood

    My sister called not long ago, she’s got cable; I don’t. She doesn’t seem to think we’re close to getting real accurate information yet. Said I wouldn’t believe it but the least hyperbolic and speculative coverage was being done by Shep Smith at Fox.

  151. 151.

    max

    @amk: any info on the shooters yet?

    One woman. One man cornered in the El Centro garage. Two people detained in a Mercedes on I-35E, no other info.

    Only one confirmed (on video) shooter, presumably the guy holed up in the garage.

    max
    [‘Taking the officers who passed away out of the hospital.’]

  153. 153.

    hamletta

    Last shooter(s) in El Centro garage dead. I think it was just one, who shot himself in the head. Situation clear, so people being allowed to go home.

  157. 157.

    Barb2

    @max:
    That is very disturbing.

    Body language – no hesitation by shooter. This guy has killed before. He moves fast and takes down his target. At the end he throws something, perhaps as an after thought. He shows no concern about being seen. He could be wearing a mask – to obscure his face and race.

    Too many incongruous varibles in all of the attacks. The video is something solid to evaluate.

    It’s good that law enforcement is trying understand gestalt before laying blame and starting a witch hunt. Targeting the wrong person and slandering him are inexcusable. Media idiots at their best.

    Someone who has had real combat experience can read the body language better than I. The key variable for me is the lack of hesitation in carrying out the execution. This was planned and the killer probably ran that manouver until his muscle memory didn’t require him to think – just act.

  159. 159.

    otmar

    What a clusterf*ck to wake up to.

    I’m far far away and have no clue how all this might get to a peaceful resolution.

    But one thing has been bothering me for a long time: you’ve got this string of police killing innocent blacks on one hand, and the white right wing ammosexuals claiming that guns are necessary for 2nd amendment solutions against gov oppression on the other hand. Mixing those two ingredients together creates an explosive mixture. IMHO is was just a matter of time till something like that happened.

  161. 161.

    Keith G

    @otmar: Obviously there is no way of knowing how this will all unfold. That said, I think the chances for what you would call a peaceful resolution are rather favorable. Events like this which are so unique and so repellent tend to make folks try really hard to achieve the best outcome possible. There is going to be a lot of inter-community outreach in Dallas after this. There also will be the predictable noise from the predictable dead end elements, but that is not going to be the predominant influence.

  162. 162.

    max

    @Barb2: Body language – no hesitation by shooter. This guy has killed before. He moves fast and takes down his target. At the end he throws something, perhaps as an after thought. He shows no concern about being seen. He could be wearing a mask – to obscure his face and race.

    Longer version of the video. I don’t know that he’s killed before. I do know he is very determined NOW.

    Someone who has had real combat experience can read the body language better than I. The key variable for me is the lack of hesitation in carrying out the execution. This was planned and the killer probably ran that manouver until his muscle memory didn’t require him to think – just act.

    The way I read it, he just sets up behind those pillars, which is not the greatest shooting position for this. It’s not bad (the pillars are helpful) but he’s just sitting there kind of wandering around. He doesn’t kneel or take cover and he burns a lot of ammo. Early on it looks like a ricochet near to his foot. And he doesn’t care.

    The first thing you do is take cover and let them come to you, or set up in a position where you can safely and steadily blast away. This is the kind of thing where he looks like he just doesn’t give a flying damn if he lives or dies. He just wants to kill cops. It doesn’t remind me of infantry, because if you ever see that on film, those guys take cover. This looks more (pardon me) gangland than anything. Or some of those mass shooters – they’re going to die, what do they care?

    max
    [‘Or those videos of Iraqis just sort of standing around and shooting off their guns.’]

  163. 163.

    Cermet

    Tragic but I am sure the NRA will say if good guys with guns were just there …wait, many of them were and killed. The issue is guns assholes.

  164. 164.

    Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporatist Shill

    @Cermet:

    Does kinda destroy the whole “good guys with guns” mass shooter narrative, doesn’t it?

    And on a hypothetical note, if this turns out to be an event with a group of black shooters, wouldn’t this be something that would most resemble the Second Amendment Solution that the Moron Lobby crowd so often talks about? Only the one most applicable to people of color?

  165. 165.

    Barb2

    @max:

    Much better video. Repeated viewings, focusing on one element at a time.

    He is ready to kill. There is some psychological research into how boot camp drill Sargent, or Chiefs have to break down the taboo of killing other humans. Initially recruits have a slight hesitation. I read an interview years ago of two drill Sargent who retired and went into counseling of Vets. The article was probably in the journal Agression.

    That killer in the video had no hesitation before killing a fellow human being. At the very beginning he was firing his rifle, that’s probably what drew the cop in his direction. So the killer was deliberately drawing attention to himself. He sees something (the cop) and the killer is stalking his prey. Killer fakes left, throws a smoke bomb to his left, next to the pillar the cop is hiding behind. This diversion causes the cop to look around to his right, which leaves his back exposed. The killer takes a quick jog around the pillar and shoots the cop in the back. We can either see the blasts from the rifle or the killer is smoking up the kill zone. That was probably done to disorient the victim.

    Then there is the over kill. That was creepy.

    This video shows that this kill was done on street level. Did he move up for more targets? Or did he first shoot from above? How do the two other suspects fit in this killing spree?

    Are the killers Vets who were stripped of the taboo of killing humans. Or are these psychopaths, taking advantage of the crowd? Too many unknown.

    And yes that killer was ready and stoked to kill. You can see it in his body language at the beginning of this disturbing video. That guy was like an over tightened spring. That’s the behavior that caught the attention of the person who got the action on video.

    My cat sleeps on my so when I have a nightmare he can wake me up. The cold blooded murder of that cop is nightmare inducing. His family – how will they cope?

  166. 166.

    Barb2

    The closest to the shocking horror that Dallas is going through in my experience was the Pang warehouse arson fire in 1995, Seattle. Four firefighters died. There was a huge local, regional and International turn out for the memorial procession through Down Town Seattle. Thousands of Firefighters and EMTS and fire engines from all over.

    So I expect that Dallas will do something similar for their killed in the line of duty.

    Everyone can grieve together and come together – or the evil creeps who did this will win.

    I will always remember that never ending line of firefighter, honoring their fallen brothers

  167. 167.

    Davebo

    Damn, I wake up, all hell’s breaking loose, and one of my favorite guitarists is spouting shit on the internet.

    Luckily it wasn’t that Joe Walsh but other than that this is a nightmare.

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