Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

“Everybody’s entitled to be an idiot.”

“Squeaker” McCarthy

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

Consistently wrong since 2002

I’ve spoken to my cat about this, but it doesn’t seem to do any good.

The arc of history bends toward the same old fuckery.

Peak wingnut was a lie.

The willow is too close to the house.

Yeah, with this crowd one never knows.

JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?

I was promised a recession.

T R E 4 5 O N

Despite his magical powers, I don’t think Trump is thinking this through, to be honest.

The GOP couldn’t organize an orgy in a whorehouse with a fist full of 50s.

He really is that stupid.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

American History and Black History Cannot Be Separated

The words do not have to be perfect.

“Jesus paying for the sins of everyone is an insult to those who paid for their own sins.”

People are complicated. Love is not.

Happy indictment week to all who celebrate!

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

It’s easy to sit in safety and prescribe what other people should be doing.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / The Chaos Candidate

The Chaos Candidate

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I find this 100% plausible:

Early this morning, Trump’s campaign boss, autocrat-whisperer Paul Manafort, was on TV saying Trump would not make an announcement today out of respect for the victims of last night’s terrorist attack in France. Then, a few hours later, Trump tweeted the announcement about Pence. What gives?

I think Pence caught wind of Trump’s Hamlet act. Pence doesn’t seem very bright at all, but as a long-time pol, he likely has a well-honed instinct for self-preservation. He was hard up against a filing deadline to run for reelection in Indiana (noon today), so maybe he forced Trump into a shotgun marriage.

Or maybe Trump just got bored with the whole thing and settled on Pence to shut everyone up. Either way, let’s hope it stokes tensions and magnifies insecurities all around. With any luck, this could become even more of an epic fail parade.

Open thread!

Reader Interactions

142Comments

  2. 2.

    Corner Stone

    Trump’s campaign HQ: 646-736-1779. Let ’em hear those hoo-has!

    #periodsforpence #tamponsfortrump

  3. 3.

    Karen S.

    “…autocrat-whisperer Paul Manafort…” Good one.
    This is just bizarre, all of it: Trump’s choice of Pence as his running mate, how the announcement of that choice was handled, all of it. It’s just mind-bogglingly bad. But it won’t shake his hard core supporters’ faith in Trump that he’ll bring American jobs back from China.

  4. 4.

    CaseyL

    Open thread – Turkey seems to be in the midst of a military coup. Army out on the streets, two bridges closed, gun battles reported.

  5. 5.

    Bobbo

    It’s not that he was unhappy specifically with Pence. He didn’t want to have a VP at all – he would have had buyer’s remorse with any of them

  6. 6.

    canuckistani

    I have a prime barbecued chicken here which I will offer to the Dark Gods if they can convince Trump to kick Pence off the ticket and switch to Gingrich. I remember how Eagleton messed up McGovern and I’d like to see it again.

  8. 8.

    Hildebrand

    Wouldn’t you pay good money to sit in a room with these folks for a day, just for the sheer knavish comedy of it all? Of course, then you would need about a month of therapy to get rid of the nightmares that would erupt out of your subconscious like the chest-burster in Alien.

  9. 9.

    Punchy

    There’s something extremely unsettling about the narrowness and general shape of Dana’s face. And yes, that’s what I got from this post. La Cracky will be so proud.

    Just heard “Hate In Yo Eyes” by Ice Cube. Strangely apropos when discussing Trump’s minions.

  10. 10.

    Peale

    So those “sources” know they are about to sued, right? Since indecisiveness probably reflects poorly on his leadership skills.

  11. 11.

    ? Martin

    @Bobbo: He wanted Ivanka for VP.

    But given Trumps offhand comment that he may not even take office if he wins, it’s not inappropriate to evaluate Pence as if he’ll be the one assuming office.

  12. 12.

    germy

    onion news

    Trump Shaping General Election Strategy With Team Of Most Trusted Erratic Impulses

    NEW YORK—In a private conference Wednesday in his Trump Tower residence, presumptive Republican nominee Donald Trump reportedly began shaping his general election strategy with a team of his most trusted erratic impulses. “Every decision and course of action I have taken in this campaign has been made in consultation with my loyal team of volatile impulses, and I will continue to work closely with these base, capricious urges to devise a comprehensive plan of attack to defeat Hillary Clinton in November,” said the business mogul, adding that he had the utmost confidence in the direction provided by the influential group of haphazard whims, wild compulsions, and aggressive outbursts that have been advising his actions for decades. “On domestic issues such as immigration, women’s rights, and race relations, I will rely heavily on the exceptional recommendations of whatever just pops into my head. Though I will likely lean on my most dependable impulses, irrational fear and baseless accusation, to lay out a foreign policy agenda that really speaks to the American people.” At press time, Trump’s team of erratic inclinations was reportedly delegating tasks to be carried out by a collection of the GOP candidate’s most feverish knee-jerk reactions.

  13. 13.

    Keith G

    This is so much fun.

    It’s generally not the case that VP picks are seen that much in campaign ads, but I am betting that the HRC shop will be telling their voters a lot about Mike Pence.

  15. 15.

    NR

    I said this in the other thread, but it bears repeating. I know Pence was regarded as the “safe” pick, but I think it could hurt Trump in ways people maybe don’t expect. It’s anecdotal for sure, but over at Reddit I’ve already seen a few people, young independents who supported Sanders, talking about how they were leaning Trump, but the Pence pick has 100% put them off voting for him. They’re going third-party now.

    I don’t know that Pence will push many people over to Hillary, but I can see him pushing people away from Trump and over to third-party candidates. Also I’m not sure the guy is ready for prime time. But we’ll see.

  17. 17.

    CaseyL

    @Major Major Major Major: Yeah, just Twitter at this point. If it’s happening, it’s happening too fast for regular news. BBC might be a decent source, or Al Jazeerah – I haven’t checked their sites yet.

    ETA: Still via Twitter, but apparently Turkey’s PM has confirmed there’s been a coup attempt. Not sure if that means it’s already been put down.

  18. 18.

    Keith P.

    TPM is saying there’s a bunch of military activity in Ankara right now. Maybe a coup.

  20. 20.

    Keith G

    @canuckistani:

    if they can convince Trump to kick Pence off the ticket and switch to Gingrich

    I doubt that it was ever all that likely that Newt had a good shot at VP. He is too much his own guy and could have competed for the spot light with Trump. Unacceptable.

  21. 21.

    Shell

    Plus Trump didnt HAVE to make the announcement this morning. He could have reassured Pence that he had the job, Pence could sign off on his gov. campaign, and they both could have have a joint announcement press/conference tomorrow. The way he did it, it just looked rushed and amateurish.

  22. 22.

    Anoniminous

    Liz Cookman is a freelance journalist and writer for the Guardian

    Liz Cookman ‏@Lizonomy 49s49 seconds ago

    Official UNHCR email to my friend who works there says “coup ongoing” go home immediately #ankara #turkey

  23. 23.

    hueyplong

    Someone needs to ask trump about turkey right now. Whatever he says, it will be stupid.

  24. 24.

    Dork

    So Pence is sloppy seconds (thirds?) to Trump’s ever-changing whims? I’m sure knowing that he was thisclose to being chosen, then unchosen, by his suitor must instill a lot of confidence and pride to be Trump’s bitch for 5 months.

    Seriously, Trump is the guy who marries the fiance he despises only because he realizes that the church, reception hall, and catering all have non-refundable deposits. All about the ducats.

  26. 26.

    ? Martin

    Sounds like a coup. Twitter and Facebook are both down in Turkey. Reports that the police are being disarmed by the military. Video of soldiers sure doesn’t look like a response to a terrorist incident. Just saw video of a military jet coming in over Ankara very aggressively.

  28. 28.

    Anoniminous

    Guess it’s officially a coup

    AP NewsAlert: Turkish Prime Minister Binali Yildirim Says a Group Within the Military Engaged in An Attempted Coup

  29. 29.

    SteveinSC

    Fucked up Pence roll-out for Drumpenstein. Botched ship launching is old sailor lore for a bad luck ship. “S.S. Ship of Fools” just ground and staggered down the ways into the water as a jinxed ship. The only thing they need now is to shoot an albatross.

  30. 30.

    Tripod

    It wouldn’t shock me if he bounced Pence between now and the election.That’s how Donald rolls.

  31. 31.

    Felonius Monk

    Trump doesn’t want a VP who can out think him. He just wants a pet rock. Somebody so stupid that he will barely be able to mow the White House lawn. Pence is his man. This guy has never had an original thought in his entire life.

  37. 37.

    Corner Stone

    @Tripod:

    It wouldn’t shock me if he bounced Pence between now and the election.That’s how Donald rolls.

    And a million “You’re Fired!” gifs were born…

  40. 40.

    Keith P.

    @Anoniminous: Wouldn’t it be funny if it was really just a military group riding around in a coupe, and it caused a big fiasco due to misspelling? Well, the deaths wouldn’t be funny, but the image of a 2-door car full of Turks dressed in full military garb dodging RPGs is pretty damn funny.

  41. 41.

    Jeffro

    @SteveinSC:<>

    “Fire! Wait…can I take my shot back? No? Ok, um, Fire! Don’t tell me to aim! Ready? I’m always ready, that’s why I only need to Fire! Fire!”

    Meanwhile, the Responsible Party and its Responsible Candidate and almost certainly a Very Responsible VP pick sit back and can’t believe that anyone could possibly be splitting the difference at this point.

  42. 42.

    jacy

    Pence seems remarkably stupid. But even remarkably stupid people can have a low cunning. How long until Pence realizes that he’s hitched his wagon to a horse that is both rabid and on fire?

  43. 43.

    dr. luba

    @Anoniminous: Historically, it was the military that imposed secularism on Turkey. Erdoğan has been trying to islamicized the government and make himself an autocrat. My Turkish friends really, really hate what he’s done to Turkey.

  44. 44.

    Corner Stone

    I just spoke (Wednesday) with a friend of mine in Turkey, wishing that he had had a joyous Eid and a great birthday. He and his family are in Istanbul so hope they stay safe.

  47. 47.

    Jeffro

    Speaking of splitting the difference, I wonder what sort of Omega-level false equivalence Bobo managed to slap together for today’s NYT?

  53. 53.

    Trollhattan

    @Jeffro:
    Recall when Reagan allowed as to how he thought we could re-call our missiles after launch? That was comforting.

  56. 56.

    dr. luba

    @Miss Bianca: No idea. But I’ve had the impression the military doesn’t like him.

    BBC says the PM says no coup:

    Turkey’s PM has denounced an “illegal action” by a military “group”, with bridges closed in Istanbul and aircraft flying low over the capital, Ankara.
    Binali Yildirim said the military action was not authorised but it was not a coup. He said that the government remained in charge.
    Traffic has been stopped from crossing both the Bosphorus and Fatih Sultan Mehmet bridges in Istanbul.
    There are also reports of gunshots in the capital Ankara.

  58. 58.

    Jeffro

    Called it (re: Brooks): see if you can tell who “particularists” and “universalists” are in this shining passage

    The fact is that both mind-sets have their virtues. The particularists emphasize the intimate love and loyalty that is the stuff of real community. The universalists are moved by injustices anywhere, and morally repulsed by inaction and indifference in the face of that suffering.

    The tragedy of this election is that America already solved this problem. Unlike France and China, we were founded as a universalist nation. You can be fiercely patriotic and relatively open because America was founded to take in people from around the globe and unite them around something new.

    Unfortunately, the forces of multiculturalism destroyed that commitment to cultural union. That has led to Trump, who has upended universalistic American nationalism and replaced it with European blood and soil nationalism in a stars and stripes disguise.

    Got it everyone? Multiculturalists destroyed the commitment to union, which led to Trump. Thanks a lot, multiculturalists!!

  59. 59.

    Villago Delenda Est

    The 2016 Trump campaign is shaping up to make the 2008 McCain campaign look like textbook execution.

  62. 62.

    Yutsano

    @CaseyL: I reached out to a Turkish acquaintance on Twitter but haven’t heard anything yet. It looks really ugly and the last time the military restored balance like this the Kurds and Armenians paid dearly for it.

    EDIT: A German friend confirmed all social media in the country is blocked right now. FARK.

  64. 64.

    ? Martin

    News reports now of gunfire exchanged between the intelligence service and the military. There are now tanks blocking access to the airport. This is going downhill fast.

  66. 66.

    dr. luba

    @Miss Bianca: Per the Atlantic:

    Turkey has a history of coup attempts, the last occurring in 1997 when the Islamist Welfare party, which made large gains in the 1995 election, was banned from politics for five years. Al Jazeera outlines the past coups staged by the military, which views itself as the “guardian of Turkish democracy,” in 1960, 1971, 1980, and 1997.

  67. 67.

    Poopyman

    Al Jaz has a brief blurb on the Turkey crisis, but it’s so scant it could be Twitter-based.

    ETA: The US-based news sites of course have nothing.

  70. 70.

    Anoniminous

    @dr. luba:

    Turkey is a wonderful country but they suffer from Religious Nutbar disease – as does the US – and Erdoğan is deep in the middle of it. He also blew the Kurdish PKK ceasefire and has had artillery shelling Rojava in Northern Syria AND been playing footsie with ISIS.

    A mess.

  71. 71.

    Trollhattan

    This (Turkey) is the perfect time for Trump to point out Hillary’s sad! lack of foreign policy experience. That’ll show her.

  72. 72.

    Jeffro

    @Trollhattan:

    Recall when Reagan allowed as to how he thought we could re-call our missiles after launch? That was comforting.

    Ugh, thanks a lot! (j/k)
    Nothing about that clown and the criminals around him was comforting. Just another adolescent gang playing around with matches.

  74. 74.

    ? Martin

    Ataturk apparently now in military control. Turkish state TV just went off the air.

  75. 75.

    CaseyL

    @rikyrah: Indeed we did, under the NATO weapons-sharing agreement. Oy.

    Someone posted an app on Twitter that supposedly gets around the block. If I were worried about secret police, I’m not sure that I’d trust that.

  80. 80.

    Keith G

    This last year is turning into a dozey for POTUS (and more so for advisers). Thinking he will be quite glad to turn in the keys.

  82. 82.

    Jeffro

    @Villago Delenda Est: Before he does, I’d love it he can tell me exactly where he sees signs that

    The particularists [Trump supporters] emphasize the intimate love and loyalty that is the stuff of real community.

    because that sure as heck is not how I’d describe their emphasis. Loyalty to their strongman, sure. Love? Real community? Not so much.

  85. 85.

    bystander

    @Shell: Amateurish? It looks like the way two experienced cutthroats deal with each other. What’s humorous isSeeing a dullard like Pence beat Trump at his own game.

  86. 86.

    CaseyL

    Rumors are that Erdogan has been increasingly erratic, not to mention wanting to make Turkey a fundamentalist Islamic state, and not everyone is happy about that. “Not everyone” includes the military. So this might be one of those cases where you kind of hope for the coup to succeed.

  87. 87.

    TriassicSands

    Trump has finally surprised me. He seems to have made a real mess out of the VP selection — no drama, no suspense, no fanfare. In like a lion, out with a tweet.

  88. 88.

    dr. luba

    There’s been long term antagonism between the secular military and the religious parties. Ataturk was secular, and that (and democracy) are the legacy of his that the military feels obligated to protect. Erdogan is related to the last coup:

    The 1995 election led to overwhelming gains for the Islamist Welfare party, which took power the following year as the head of a coalition government.

    So in 1997 the military issued a series of “recommendations,” which the government had no choice but to accept. The prime minister, Necmettin Erbakan, agreed to a compulsory eight-year education programme (to prevent students from enrolling in religious schools), a headscarf ban at universities, and other measures. Erbakan was then forced to resign.

    The Welfare party was shut down in 1998, and Erbakan was banned from politics for five years.

    Some former members of the party, including current prime minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, would eventually go on to found the Justice and Development Party.

  89. 89.

    VOR

    @Keith G: The HRC camp launched an anti-Pence video 15 minutes after the announcement. I’m willing to bet they had similar videos prepped for Gingrich and Christie. See, that’s what an actual professional campaign does.

  90. 90.

    Chris

    @CaseyL:

    I meant to ask about that. Hopefully there’ll be a thread dedicated to it specifically once we know a little more.

  91. 91.

    raven

    Istanbul’s Bosphorus Bridge and Fatih Sultan Mehmet Bridge were both closed on Friday, local television channels reported, without giving a reason.

    Dogan News Agency footage showed cars and buses being diverted.

  92. 92.

    ? Martin

    All that said, Flightaware is still showing planes departing Ataturk.

    I wonder, if you’re a pilot and there’s a coup at your destination while en-route, is there a general policy you are supposed to follow? Can you just take initiative and reroute to another country?

  94. 94.

    Jeffro

    @Major Major Major Major:

    wait. American openness to immigration was destroyed by ‘European’ ‘multicultural’ ‘nationalism’?

    You nailed it, I think. I read it as, “We had it made in the shade here in America, until the 60’s came along and everyone went all multicultural and stuff.”

    Oh and then apparently these “particularists” (has there ever been a stupider, more misleading word used to describe Trump’s tribalists?) had no choice but to “emphasize” (you know, by hitting protestors and wearing ‘Trump that B****’ t-shirts) their “intimate love and loyalty”…gag…

    Quit excusing thugs, Brooks; quit excusing people who refuse to change and grow up. Most of all, quit with the false equivalence. 1 perfectly responsible party & candidate vs. a party gone thoroughly off the rails, with a whimsical narcissist man-child as its leader. This is not hard, Brooks.

  95. 95.

    CaseyL

    I know everyone is watching the same tweets I am, but the latest is: the military announces it is now in control (of the capital, at least) while the PM goes on TV to say the elected government is still in charge.

    That kind of confusion has got to be, historically speaking, standard in domestic uprisings. But to see it play out in real time is remarkable.

  96. 96.

    Trollhattan

    @? Martin:
    Man, anybody who cheerfully wishes you to “live in interesting times” needs a good punch in the neck. We’re in one of the newsiest news cycles I can recall and most if it ain’t good. I think government flags in our metroplex have been at half-staff continuously since Orlando and at this point I don’t know who’s being mourned at a given time.

    Not a teenager any longer, bring me boring!

  99. 99.

    gwangung

    @VOR:

    The HRC camp launched an anti-Pence video 15 minutes after the announcement. I’m willing to bet they had similar videos prepped for Gingrich and Christie. See, that’s what an actual professional campaign does.

    Indeed…that’s what someone with a triple digit IQ would do.

    Gobsmacks me that this is beyond all 17 candidates on the Republican side (and possibly one candidate on the Democratic side).

  100. 100.

    Amir Khalid

    if the Turkish military really is in charge now, I expect President Erdogan and PM Yildirim will have either been arrested or gone into hiding.

  101. 101.

    ? Martin

    Looks like departures have now stopped at both major airports. CNN Turkey reporting explosions at a police training site.

  103. 103.

    Poopyman

    @Amir Khalid: Looking like both sides have control over parts of the capital, and I’ve seen nothing on any activity outside of Ankara.

  104. 104.

    CaseyL

    Back in 1980s, when Spy magazine was going strong, they ran an article about someone who – apparently just out of curiosity – joined the Turkish Army for his summer vacation. It was a fascinating article. Mostly humorous, but then serious shit would happen.

    I really miss Spy.

  105. 105.

    Amir Khalid

    @muddy:
    This appears to be between the military and Erdogan’s government. There’s been no mention of a Kurdish angle.

  106. 106.

    Chris

    @Jeffro:

    Thank you for reminding me once more that I really do despise the milquetoast, VSP, “establishment” “moderate” Republicans even more than I do the teabaggers and Trump voters.

    Brooks and his ilk are the fellow travelers who can tell that something’s not as they want it to be, but simply can’t bring themselves, after a lifetime of hippie punching and siding with the conservative tribe, to put the blame where it belongs.

  108. 108.

    sharl

    Sheesh, one of my favorite tweeters, and my usual go-to person for all things Turkish/Turkey, is actually back in her homeland at this very moment:

    Zeynep Tufekci @zeynep

    Yes, there is an ongoing coup attempt in Turkey. DON’T @ me to ask a question. I’m safe at Antalya airport. I will tweet what I know.

    ~
    Best wishes to Zeynep to stay safe, and make it back home to North Carolina.
    Cripes girl, you just got that elusive tenure! (Which you fully earned and deserved AFAICT.) This is no way to celebrate…

  109. 109.

    The Dangerman

    I wonder who leaked the handout letter from the RNC to Adelson to cover the 6M shortfall in Cleveland? And, if so, did they get the check cashed before Newt got the shiv?

  113. 113.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @VOR:

    The HRC camp launched an anti-Pence video 15 minutes after the announcement. I’m willing to bet they had similar videos prepped for Gingrich and Christie.

    Well, they’d better not toss those just yet. As others have noted, it wouldn’t be too surprising to see Trump change his mind, dump Pence, and go with one of his other picks.

  114. 114.

    Poopyman

    Right now it appears the PM is the one with the media access, so everything I see online is that it’s a coup “attempt”, and is being put down. Almost like Baghdad Bob being taken seriously if we didn’t already know what the other side was saying/doing.

    So right now we really know nothing other than shit’s going down in a major metropolitan Turkish city, and it’s currently a few minutes to midnight there.

  117. 117.

    Chris

    @dr. luba:

    Historically, it was the military that imposed secularism on Turkey. Erdoğan has been trying to islamicized the government and make himself an autocrat. My Turkish friends really, really hate what he’s done to Turkey.

    So do mine, but the fact that all my Turkish friends come from fairly wealthy elite and Europeanized backgrounds makes me take what they say with a grain of salt, similar to the way I take the opinion of my Venezuelan anti-Chavista friends. “How dare the rabble vote for someone we didn’t approve of” isn’t a good look on anyone, even when I agree with them, but it feels like the subtext behind a lot of their complaints (in both cases).

  118. 118.

    ? Martin

    @Poopyman: I don’t see any evidence its being put down. The military seems to be having no trouble operating/expanding their reach.

  119. 119.

    scav

    @Poopyman: That and seeing even a top-level Turkey news search brings up stuff about changes in Turnkey and Israel, Turkey and Syra relations would suggest hesitation about just what it could be about. And the need for multiple parties involved all to claim they’ve got it done and dusted as an offensive goal in and of itself. Chaos plus control of social media propaganda.

  120. 120.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @VOR:

    I think it is possible we could see a new VP candidate by the end of the convention.

    Of course for that matter, I guess it’s still in the realm of possibility that we could see a new Prez candidate as well.

    "You get a new candidate, and you get a new candidate! Everybody gets a new candidate!"

  121. 121.

    Eric U.

    I think Brooks is smart enough to know his job is to elect republicans, no matter how crazy. He wanted a candidate that would make it easier to pretend they aren’t insane, but will go with what he’s got. Friedman has a similar job, but as a nominal liberal, he has freedom to oppose Trump. His job is to lead totebaggers, who aren’t going to be

  122. 122.

    hilts

    Donald Trump is pure, unadulterated scum and his election victory would be a crime against reason and a crime against humanity.

  124. 124.

    J R in WV

    @CaseyL: No, there are nukes, but on an American / NATO base. I imagine the Turks wouldn’t have codes nor expertise in arming those babies for use.

    Plus, not really useful in the normal military coup in Turkey, which happens whenever a ‘civilian’ government gets a little too full of itself.

    Or too Islamic, like the current President Erdogan.

  125. 125.

    sharl

    @srv: Related:

    NBC Nightly News ‏@NBCNightlyNews 15m15 minutes ago

    BREAKING: US military sources: US-Turkish base at Incirlik, outlying bases ordered to “Force Protection Condition Delta;” missions halted.

    ~
    ETA: From Wikipedia, here is what Force Protection Condition Delta is:

    FPCON DELTA describes a situation when a terrorist attack is taking place or has just occurred in the immediate area. FPCON Delta usually occurs only in the areas that are most vulnerable to or have been attacked. One notable example of a general FPCON Delta was directly following the September 11, 2001 attacks, when all military installations were placed at FPCON Delta and restricted to only military personnel. Force Protection Level I Antiterrorism Training defines FPCON Delta as: FPCON Delta applies when a terrorist attack has occurred or when intelligence indicates imminent terrorist action against a specific location. FPCON Delta is normally declared as a localized warning. The installation moves to a high state of alert, and mandatory security measures are implemented. Commanders are also authorized and encouraged to supplement mandatory security measures. FPCON Delta may cause delayed or canceled mission activities. You can expect delays and interruptions to daily routines.

  126. 126.

    Emma

    On the one hand, I don’t like military coups. Too many times where the country in question has ended up with a military dictatorship. On the other hand, Erdogan has been engaging in a lot of “interesting” governing lately. I’m not sure that I have a side, except that, as someone mentioned upthread, it’s usually the minority groups that pay the price.

  127. 127.

    Jeffro

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Well, they’d better not toss those just yet. As others have noted, it wouldn’t be too surprising to see Trump change his mind, dump Pence, and go with one of his other picks.

    They probably have more things lined up on the ‘launch pad’, so to speak, than we might imagine. They probably had anti-Jindal and anti-Santorum ads ready (much less anti-Ernst and anti-Sessions ones) ready well before this week.

  128. 128.

    hilts

    @TriassicSands:

    He seems to have made a real mess out of the VP selection

    I’m not surprised because Donald Trump is shit for brains. It’s a wonder that he still knows how to breathe.

  129. 129.

    SiubhanDuinne

    NPR just reported that the Trump campaign is flatly denying reports of chaos and late-night phone calls and mind-changing.

    Shit. I hate it when I have to decide between Dana Bash and a Trump spox.

  130. 130.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @hilts:

    I’m not surprised because Donald Trump is shit for brains. It’s a wonder that he still knows how to breathe.

    It’s called farting.

  132. 132.

    Jeffro

    @Eric U.: it’s just weird…it would be easy to assume Brooks is getting paid under the table for his ridiculous, highbrow both-sides-do-it babble…but I can see him spooling out his nonsense 2x/week just because he enjoys it and thinks he’s got amazing insights into human nature, politics, and “particularists”.

    But you’re right, he’s just using really big words to rationalize his support for Republicans and obscure a very clear choice in this election.

  136. 136.

    Chris

    @Emma:

    I think the reason it rankles is that part of the social contract in a democracy is the acknowledgement that at some point, “the wrong people” are going to end up in power… and you have to be willing to accept that. I mean, somebody above just listed the coups that have happened in recent history – if that’s accurate, then this would be the fifth coup in less than sixty years. Five coups since 1960, really? It’s kind of hard not to go “uhhh… and we’re sure that it’s all those civilian governments and not the military that are the problem?”

  137. 137.

    Chris

    @Jeffro:

    it’s just weird…it would be easy to assume Brooks is getting paid under the table for his ridiculous, highbrow both-sides-do-it babble…but I can see him spooling out his nonsense 2x/week just because he enjoys it and thinks he’s got amazing insights into human nature, politics, and “particularists”.

    I kind of assume that most of the time, this kind of thing isn’t about literally buying people to say what you want them to say while ignoring their own feelings, so much as just seeing to it that people who have the right mentality are elevated.

  140. 140.

    danielx

    Pence doesn’t seem very bright at all, but as a long-time pol, he likely has a well-honed instinct for self-preservation.

    It could be argued that his instinct for political self-preservation is something less than unerring, particularly after the RFRA business last year and then signing one of the most restrictive anti-abortion bills ever this summer. That latter item truly pissed off a lot of women in the state, given that it outlawed abortions for reasons of genetic defects – any genetic defect. So if a fetus is diagnosed with a lethal subtype of osteogenesis imperfecta, for example, you’d be shit out of luck. There are still a hell of lot of ‘Pence Must Go’ signs around, and it wouldn’t be a bad bet to suppose that Pence would have gotten his ass beaten like Charlie Watts’ snare drum in the November gubernatorial election. Of course, might could happen that the Republican presidential ticket gets beaten the same way in November, but that wouldn’t be Pence’s fault.

  142. 142.

    Betsy

    @TriassicSands: looks like as long as there are few deadlines or rules, he can bluster and huckster his way to winning, or make up his own version of rules, his own baloney definitions of success . After this week though the campaign turns into a game with rules and discipline, needing a tight team and strategic discernment.

    In other words, enjoy the show.

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