UPDATE: Ohio Governor rejects plea from Cleveland police to suspend open carry during GOP convention https://t.co/0EnVEIQTO7
— Judd Legum (@JuddLegum) July 17, 2016
Per CNN:
The head of Cleveland’s largest police union is calling on Ohio Gov. John Kasich to temporarily restrict the state’s gun laws during this week’s Republican National Convention following Sunday’s shooting in Louisiana that killed three officers and wounded at least three others.
“We are sending a letter to Gov. Kasich requesting assistance from him. He could very easily do some kind of executive order or something — I don’t care if it’s constitutional or not at this point,” Stephen Loomis, president of Cleveland Police Patrolmen’s Association, told CNN. “They can fight about it after the RNC or they can lift it after the RNC, but I want him to absolutely outlaw open-carry in Cuyahoga County until this RNC is over.”
So-called “open carry” gun laws in Ohio allow for licensed firearm owners to wear their weapons in public. With the exception of a small “secure zone” inside and around the Quicken Loans Arena, residents, delegates and protesters are legally permitted to walk around the city — including within its 1.7 square mile regulated “event zone” — with any firearm not explicitly banned by the state.
Kasich, responding to the request, said: “Ohio governors do not have the power to arbitrarily suspend federal and state constitutional rights or state laws as suggested.”…
Governor Kasich is not gonna be anywhere near Cleveland this week. And if, goddess forfend, something terrible involving open-carry participants were to happen, it would redound very badly on those people in the RNC currently supporting a presidential candidate who is not John Kasich. The Governor washes his hands before the crowd…
… Loomis also said officers here would begin ramping up inspections and oversight over anyone who is holstering a weapon entering the downtown area, where the Republican convention is scheduled to begin on Monday.
“We are going to be looking very, very hard at anyone who has an open carry,” he said. “An AR-15, a shotgun, multiple handguns. It’s irresponsible of those folks — especially right now — to be coming downtown with open carry AR’s or anything else. I couldn’t care less if it’s legal or not. We are constitutional law enforcement, we love the Constitution, support it and defend it, but you can’t go into a crowded theater and scream fire. And that’s exactly what they’re doing by bringing those guns down there.”…
Life, liberty, pursuit of looking like a jagoff. pic.twitter.com/YbNHYoqHzt
— Bob Schooley (@Rschooley) July 17, 2016
… The first key test for law enforcement comes Monday, as the convention opens, when Citizens for Trump and Black on Black Crime, Inc., which has marched in the past with Black Lives Matter-affiliated protestors, are among the many groups that are set to protest.
Citizens for Trump is scheduled to hold a rally expected to attract more than a thousand people to Settler’s Landing Park, less than a mile from where Republican delegates will be gathering at the Quicken Loans Arena…Alfred Porter Jr., president of Black on Black Crime, Inc., a four-decade-old anti-violence group, told CNN it would not alter a planned demonstration Monday in Cleveland’s downtown Public Square.
“Nothing has changed because I still feel the same way, our message will still be the same,” Porter said on Sunday afternoon. “We refuse to let anybody who has a simplistic or violent or hateful message stop the type of message that we have been sending out for accountability. Our message is not to go out there and start murdering police officers.”…
These photos were taken 40 feet away from each other #RNCinCLE pic.twitter.com/cnH1pBcqvM
— Alexander Trowbridge (@AlexanderTrow) July 17, 2016
Responsible Republicans respond:
Hours after the head of Cleveland’s police union pleaded with the governor to suspend Ohio’s open-carry laws during the Republican National Convention, Donald Trump’s spokesperson told ThinkProgress she is “not nervous at all” that people are walking around the city with assault weapons.
“I am recommending that people follow the law,” Katrina Pierson said Sunday when asked whether she believes people should arm themselves in the convention zone. Under Ohio law, residents over 21 years old who have permits can openly carry guns in public…
Jeff Larson, the CEO of the RNC, agreed with the governor.
“[Open carry] is in the Constitution in Ohio, so the governor can’t relax it for a day or tighten it up for five days,” he told reporters at a press conference Sunday. Waving away the police union’s safety concerns, Larson added, “I feel good about the security plan. I think it’s going to be fine.”…
seaboogie
To quote a no longer extant friend, I think “our fun meter has been pegged” after the events of the past week. The RNC is finally arrived, and I imagine that we will be watching it with our hands over our eyes – peeping between our fingers when the music is not too scary.
Raven Onthill
You both feel it too. I can’t imagine anything good coming of this convention. It’s a question of what can go wrong and how badly it can go wrong, not that something will go wrong.
NotMax
Key word for the drinking game: Hoocoodanode?
Patricia Kayden
It’s all guns all the dang time for gun nuts. Circumstances be damned.
How brave of Kasich to be out of the state where he is a Governor when his own Party is holding its Convention. Can almost hear him whispering, “Good luck, suckers!” as he flies away.
Damien
I wonder if Donald a Trump is going to test his theory that he could shoot someone and his supporters would stick by him?
The Ancient Randonneur
The simple fact that a police officer speaking for police officers would utter the words “I don’t care if it’s constitutional, or not at this point” should b fair warning to all. The police officer apparently thinks that the safety of officers is more important than anyone’s constitutional rights. We can argue about the second amendment all day long but in the this guy doesn’t care about your rights. He cares about the safety of police officers and to hell with your rights. What other rights does he not give a damn about?
Barb2
Absolutely fvcking insane. There it is “Natural Law” the beloved law of Supreme court justice Thomas.
How can something as unnatural as guns be Natural?
Everyone should just stay away. Is this what the religious right want? To let the end of time prophesy to play out in this pathetic place?
At one time long ago the Mormon prophet Joseph Smith stopped in Ohio and declared it to be Eden. Ohio is where Smith ran his greatest cons – founding a bank etc.
There was violence here and Smith escaped to Illinois – where he was eventually murdered. This is also where he married lots of women, some already married.
Google “end of time prophesy” plus Ohio.
www. wake-up.org/ end-times-prophecy/ (remove spaces)
Headquartered in Ohio.
It would seem that the wacky religious right have hijacked something.
Xenos
@The Ancient Randonneur: This is the same guy who blames Obama, because he does not condemn Black Lives Matters as a terrorist group, for the cop killings in Dallas. A real gem, this one.
Correction – this was in response to Baton Rouge. He wants to make an asshole of himself more than once each news cycle:
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/288080-cleveland-cop-obama-has-blood-on-his-hands-after-baton-rouge
Lalophobia
@The Ancient Randonneur: In this particular case I’m gonna agree with the guy. This shit is a potential powder keg.
Barb2
Oops my comment is in moderation.
Years ago I researched my genealogy. Two of my great great great grand fathers were a follower of Joseph Smith. Ohio and Missouri played a big part in the Joseph Smith prophesies. Plus other fringe sects, cults and religions who are pleading for the end of times to begin.
There could be violence from unexpected religious sects. I hope not. But Trump has whipped up a lot of hate and anger. The monster has been awakened. Like the era of the Great Awakening. The end of timers are true believers – great gobs of blood signal the second coming of Christ.
I really feel sorry for the cops who will be dealing with this mess. They probably don’t understand religious zealots.
End of times and Ohio share links in prophesies. Now I don’t believe any of this BS – but some religious right wing nuts do. Some might be willing to seek martyrdom because their sky god requires a lot of blood in order to return.
Ultraviolet Thunder
Why we can’t have nice things: this is it.
The logical extension of open toters insisting on carrying everywhere they legally can is that they will drive out anyone sane enough to fear armed strangers. then they will own public spaces. Like a legally sanctioned gang.
JGabriel
ThinkProgress via Anne Laurie @ Top:
I feel good about the security plan?
Is anyone else getting the feeling that the Republicans are *hoping* for violence, that they *want* violence, and that they’re planning to blame it on Obama, Clinton, and the Democrats?
hellslittlestangel
The only optimism I can manage is to hope the perpetrators of violence in Cleveland are white.
Schlemazel Khan
@hellslittlestangel:
And the the victims are deserving
Comrade Scrutinizer
I’m sure the media is salivating over the possibility of another Greensboro Massacre.
Cat48
There was a union head on msnbc who wanted open carry canceled bc they had just learned that the New Black Panthers were going to be there open carrying. Guess it’s ok for the whites to open carry, except a lot of them are Oath Keepers. I’m afraid of all of them with guns.
Debbie(aussie)
I can’t provide a link, but my son played a podcast for me this afternoon from a pastor at a Florida church that is worried about the ‘cyber Devils’ that Pokemon go is releasing and they are all contracted in churches??? What happens if the jihadis get a hold of this and target the Christians? I think we should pray for the meteor. I just can’t even…. Facts have a liberal bias, of course.
Comrade Scrutinizer
@Cat48: Oath Keepers? Oh, you mean Der Stahlhelm.
Cat48
@Comrade Scrutinizer:
Had to look up der Stalhelm, it do seem like similar paramilitary units, which freak me out. I just can’t judge the crazy factor between them & the New Black Panthers. I don’t want to know either group. Guess Trump’s Nazi friends & white supremacists will be there too. I don’t know who will protest at the Dem Convention.
gene108
@Ultraviolet Thunder:
I think part of the point of these “guns everywhere laws” is to make it easier for the doomsday preppers, sovereign citizen, and militia types to stock pile weapons for the coming revolution / race war.
Being able to intimidate the majority of Americans, who do not own guns, is just bonus points.
Barb2
@gene108:
There is that and the fact that corporation (are humans) – weapons manufacturers are making boatloads of money.
Plus the gun show circuits of the southwest. Owners of gun show franchises are battling each other to dominate even the smallest market. I saw this happening in Arizona – cops were called to close down one gun show due to license requirement. The complaint came from a rival. Folks go to gun shows to buy ammo oh and guns.
Gun shows sell both space and local people sell guns and related items. Then there are tables selling non gun related stuff. There seems to be a whole economy built around guns.
Guns are everywhere in the southwest. Even in remote areas of Death Valley. Make that guns are common in the west. The NRA is funded by the weapons manufacturers. Right?
Joel
@The Ancient Randonneur: or that officer interprets the second amendment differently than you do.
Leto
I’m waiting for a savvy political campaign to run an ad essentially asking, “Why does the RNC/Republicans hate cops? Why do they keep crafting laws that cops hate and will result in cops continuing to die?”
I guess I can keep waiting.
debbie
Not so. He’ll be speaking at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and a couple other places.
Amir Khalid
@debbie:
I get the impression that sixty years ago, John Kasich would have been among the white parents denouncing that “jungle music”.
low-tech cyclist
Kasich to cops: drop dead.
debbie
@Amir Khalid:
He’d certainly object to anything more rocking than the Four Freshmen.
NorthLeft12
I think to be fair to the Police union rep, he is talking about the safety of the public at large, and not just the officers in Cleveland.
EBT
Now I like schadenfreude as much as the next moderately jaded person, but I’m fairly worried bas things will happen this time.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@Joel: So what other parts of the US Constitution and the federal and state codes do you think he might have a different interpretation for?
I get what you’re saying, but I also understand the concern.
bjacques
Kasich isn’t about to risk angering his reliable base who believe RKBA to reign supreme and who are just itching for black protesters to show up armed or at least amped up and give the Open Carry demonstrators an excuse to shoot them. The police unions may be friendly to Kasich, but they’ve forgotten that in his book they’re still unions, so what they want doesn’t matter.
Ohio Mom
I wonder if those cops remember that during his first term, Kasich almost succeeded in dismantling Ohio’s police unions by making them illegal. Note to all Buckeye police and other public safety professionals: Kasich is NOT your friend. Never was, never will be. Stop voting for him and his fellow Republicans.
Yes, I am grouchy this morning. Expecting to cheer up once I get some breakfast in me.
Jeffro
I like the association president’s line about “you can’t shout ‘fire’ in a crowded movie theater” as a comparison to openly carrying guns of any kind (much less assault weapons) in a tension-filled city. He’s absolutely right, and this is the kind of appeal to common sense that gun safety groups should be making.
Heck, have ’em picture someone popping a balloon, or setting off a string of firecrackers…Ammosexual #1 raises his AR-15 and sweeps the area, sweeping right across Ammosexual #2, doing the same at him…with those kids in the water fountain in the middle…
Bupalos
@Barb2:
As the self-appointed cop for this stuff, being ignorant and boorish about our region and city is everyone’s natural right, but in electoral terms its pretty foolish right now.
Punchy
So the leader of the union in charge of law and order openly admits that he doesnt care if orders given to him and his crew are constitutionally sound or not. I think I’ve identified a major, major problem….
satby
@Punchy: interpretation of the second amendment didn’t previously allow open carry, and the potential for carnage is pretty high. I think it speaks to his fear and frustration that a perverted interpretation based on Heller has brought us all to this point, not that he thinks he can pick and choose laws to follow. I don’t blame him either, most sane people don’t think this is actually written in the Constitution, just that Scalia inserted it there.
Capri
Seems like the police are saying “suspend the law for me but not for thee” This might be a time to actually change a law or two.
Wapiti
It seems that the police, our public safety experts, think the situation is grossly unsafe, and the Governor thinks he does not have legal recourse to overturn the state constitution and laws. Perhaps the police union should walk off the job/refuse to work the convention area, or at least threaten to, in order to end the impasse.
The Other Bob
@The Ancient Randonneur:
This x1000. It is what I was going to post. The problem is Kasich suspending the LAW. The problem is the law itself.
I love the mindset of this cop. “Oh, we’ll worry about that pesky constitution later…” Very telling.
Barry
@Cat48: “There was a union head on msnbc who wanted open carry canceled bc they had just learned that the New Black Panthers were going to be there open carrying. Guess it’s ok for the whites to open carry, except a lot of them are Oath Keepers. I’m afraid of all of them with guns.”
Loomis, head of the Cleveland Mafia Union. He’s a thorough maggot.
CONGRATULATIONS!
Irony: this same defender of his co-workers right to live without fear of getting shot will frantically be yanking the lever for a 100% GOP ticket in November.
Can’t fix it when you keep voting for it, pal.
Shell
But IF anything happens, it’ll be Obamas fault or outside agitators.
Fester Addams
Hasn’t it been SOP for a while to set up “free speech zones” where you can exercise your 1st amendment rights (behind a wall, under an overpass, a mile from the convention). No similar suggestions for corralling the ammosexuals, then?
Plantsmantx
Paul in KY
They should surveil the gun carrying doofuses & sooner or later they will do something unsafe with the weapon & then swoop down on them & arrest them for endangerment.
Kyle
I keep seeing references to the “constitutional right” to open carry. That is not a US right. Is it in the Ohio constitution?
Stan
@Paul in KY: “They should surveil the gun carrying doofuses & sooner or later they will do something unsafe with the weapon…”
The funny thing is, they are already doing something unsafe. No US Soldier would be permitted to walk around like that outside an active combat zone. We have no idea if those idiots have a round chambered or not.
The mere fact of carrying hot (loaded) weapons around is a simple safety violation and should result in an arrest. This need not be a constitutional issue; it’s a simple firearms safety issue, and if the NRA had an ounce of integrity (I know…..) they’d take that position too.
mr_gravity
@Fester Addams: guns speak louder than words?
Barry
@NorthLeft12: “I think to be fair to the Police union rep, he is talking about the safety of the public at large, and not just the officers in Cleveland.”
No, the man is a total sh*t.