.@AlGiordano welcomes Tim Kaine's selection as Clinton's running mate: https://t.co/sdDJrefUHQ
— Scotty McScottface (@ScottyUrb) July 23, 2016
Also:
Kaine is a good pick politically, but @HillaryClinton clearly placed governing over politics which is the right way to make this decision
— Dan Pfeiffer (@danpfeiffer) July 23, 2016
I love how people are projecting their own ideological fears onto Tim Kaine when they clearly don't know him. He's not Joe Lieberman, people
— Wyeth Ruthven (@wyethwire) July 23, 2016
… and one Republican analyst:
It's not the hardest dive in the world but being able to pick & roll out a VP without last minute drama is sign of campaign maturity.
— stuart stevens (@stuartpstevens) July 23, 2016
Kaine was the first U.S. senator to deliver a speech from the Senate floor in Spanish. https://t.co/PiuNPCVe0x
— Catherine Rampell (@crampell) July 23, 2016
lamh36
lamh36
God…I don’t want to start up the Bernie flame war…but is this true?
Technocrat
@lamh36:
Did Mrs. Kaine ever travel to Kenya??
Asking for a friend.
NotMax
A stolid choice.
Stolid is good.
redshirt
Tim Kaine was an Obama supporter in 2007 tells me everything I need to know.
He’s an Obot.
ONE OF US.
ONE OF US.
Also, he was reading Pablano on DK back in the day.
redshirt
@lamh36: There’s gold in that thar Kansas town!
amk
so, this means you are on board, AL?
#sellout
dr. bloor
@lamh36: OMG KAINE’S A KENYAN MOOSLIM TOO!!1!1eleven!
Tripod
That’s a more and better Democrat.
I’m sure the TV and radio fuckwits will insist he light a cross on stage or something, but fuck them.
? Martin
I think what most people miss about both Hillary and Kaine is that both are probably among the best Democrats in terms of building coalitions and getting legislation passed. Once again, the goal is not to win the debate, it’s to get progressive laws passed. They are each among the best there is at doing that.
I worry a lot less about ideological purity and a lot more about getting shit done. Executive competence is incredibly important. I want people that won’t put dipshits in charge of FEMA.
Omnes Omnibus
@lamh36: He gets a 100% rating from the Brady Campaign.
eemom
So here we have a solid, pro-choice candidate being attacked by the same puritard pony-brigade who once extolled Dennis Kucinich, who actually WAS anti-choice.
Damn, if I didn’t know better, I’d HAVE to conclude that these people are stupider than the teatards.
NotMax
Harry Reid chimed in yet?
dr. bloor
@NotMax: Harry is probably back in NV stretched out on a chaise lounge, reliving the eleventy-million times he pantsed McConnell.
Technocrat
@eemom:
Not stupid per se, they just consider women’s choice to be “identity politics”. What’s important is Kaine’s position on putting bankers in jail.
dmsilev
@lamh36: Wouldn’t surprise me. Sanders’ gun stance was probably his biggest departure from what we think of as progressive standard positions, though it’s not particularly surprising or anything given that it reflects the views of his mostly-rural state.
SFAW
@Omnes Omnibus:
I didn’t know Kaine had weighed in on Deflategate.
redshirt
@SFAW: EEERGGG…!
Jeffro
@dr. bloor:
Gawd I hope so…he earned that lounge chair!
Still, I hope he weighs in (on any of this recent stuff: the RNCluster, the Kaine pick, whatever). Need to go check Twitter to see if HR’s feed is as funny as John Dingell’s…
dmsilev
@lamh36: So, what you’re telling us is that a generation or two ago, there was a really skilled mad scientist who set up his secret lab in a small town in Kansas to start his Presidential Breeding Program. I mean, that’s the simplest explanation.
lamh36
Ugh…Jeff Flake
But I guess the same thing happened with Biden. Didn’t GOP colleagues say they like him…still didn’t matter!!!
Turgidson
@eemom:
Well let’s not go overboard.
But yeah, people pissing and moaning about Kaine can cram it up their asses. He’s a good pick. He’s like Biden in the sense that it seems that everyone who works closely with him raves about him. For all the shit Biden took for being a goofy gaffe machine, damn near everyone in the Senate liked and respected the guy and believed he was an honest broker – there’s a reason Obama was always sending Uncle Joe over to the Hill to deal with the Kentucky Turtle in delicate moments. McConnell trusted him. Seems Kaine has a similar reputation with his colleagues from what I can tell. And sure he’s not a pure progressive unicorn like the Bernietards want, but he’s more progressive than he gets credit for and besides, who cares. A lot of them bitched about Biden, and he turned out to be an excellent VP and fit for Obama. Hillary probably picked Kaine because she liked him best and wanted to work with him. And that’s a damn good reason.
lamh36
So did John McCain…how’d that work for VP Palin?
Kwame
Not my first choice, but whatever.
LanceThruster
Re: the DNC and WikiLeaks: I declare shenanigans!
japa21
@lamh36: In today’s GOP Flake would be considered a relatively sane man. In fact, he is probably one of the sanest.
Turgidson
@lamh36:
Hell, so did Mittens when he picked the Zombie-Eyed Granny Starver. And Biden (considered a similarly “boring” “safe” “centrist”/whatever pick in 08) gave him an atomic wedgie in front of the nation.
Plus – is there any evidence that anyone is excited by Mike Pence? The braindead base hates him for waffling on the LGBT hate, the business wing got mad at him for going too far with the LGBT hate, and he’s kind of a moron. Who exactly does he excite?
Jeffro
@lamh36: How does Moore not see: Trump picked Pence because a) ALMOST NO ONE ELSE WOULD SIGN ON, and b) he HAD to. Trump’s repellent to half of his own party, and had to find someone to paper over those differences. Clinton’s not in that position – most Bernie voters are gonna be Clinton voters in November.
Two parties, two candidates, two situations that are not nearly the same. One of these things is not like the other, Michael.
NotMax
@LanceThruster
re: LanceThruster – I declare go suck an egg.
Cat48
@lamh36:
Not a flame war,:) but Kaine is not good enough for two of his exworkers, Ben Jealous & Nina from Ohio. It’s going to take a few more months I think. Losing is hard.
Mary G
Jeff Flake has shown a few glimmers of intelligence recently. I love how he stood up to Trump on bashing Hispanics, then when Trump threatened to block his reelection, said that he isn’t up this year, with “you moron” implied.
japa21
@LanceThruster: I agree. Wikileaks and Putin are up to shenanigans.
Mnemosyne
@lamh36:
G reminded me that Flake was one of the Repubs who got into a shouting match with Trump when the senators had a meeting with him. No love lost there. Gotta invest in popcorn futures now.
Xantar
@redshirt:
And despite the fact that Kaine endorsed Obama against Hillary, she chose him as her VP pick anyway. That says very good things about her.
Mnemosyne
@LanceThruster:
“Shenanigans” seems like kind of a weak word for Wikileaks publicly releasing the credit card numbers and personal information of thousands of Democratic donors.
Luckily for me, my small, regional bank is very security-conscious, so I’ll probably get a new card automatically.
SFAW
@lamh36:
I assume that “MMFlint” is Moore.
Unlike many here, I have not been bothered by his recent Bernie-curious-isms. But I guess the tweet you posted just brought me to a tipping point (fuck you, Gladwell, you simplistic, pseudo-scientific asshole). So, to the formerly-esteemed-by-me Mr. Moore, I say: Michael, STFU already, will you?
lamh36
From HRC:
“Why I chose Tim Kaine” by Hillary Clinton
Mai.naem.mobile
@dr. bloor: he speaks Spanish so he’s a half Kenyan/half Mexican Muslin
SFAW
@Xantar:
That she’s a loser, who picked someone who chose the Kenyan Mooslim over here? Pathetic! Sad!
lamh36
Beschloss is great to follow on twitter…I can’t be bothered with him on tv, but he always have interesting pics and blurbs on twitter.
Young Tim Kaine, 1987…wow I would NOT have recognized him
? Martin
@Mary G:
I think ‘liberated’ is the term you are looking for. Republicans were much more interesting when they had less party discipline. Probably true for Democrats as well.
SFAW
@Mai.naem.mobile:
Um, I believe the Molly-Ivins-approved spelling is “Messican.”
smintheus
Kaine’s not Lieberman, but his DW-Nominate score for the latest Congress (41) is identical to Lieberman’s when he was picked by Gore. The only VP in modern times with a higher DW-Nominate score than Kaine was Bentsen (48). LBJ came in at 39, every other VP has been below 27.
Mai.naem.mobile
@Mnemosyne: I don’t think Flake will change parties but he’s said a lot of non Republican stuff in the past couple of years. If his votes match his rhetoric I would consider voting for him and I cannot remember the last time voted for a Republican.
LanceThruster
@NotMax:
Yeah…DNC and HRC being weasels (who *do* suck eggs) is such an inconvenient truth.
CaseyL
@lamh36: I haven’t read that yet, but it seems to me that picking someone liked and trusted by everyone he’s worked with, someone who’s a friend, and who comes across as sane, intelligent, and honest… well, in 2016 that IS pretty damned exciting!
redshirt
@? Martin: Flake is going to turn Democratic. It’s happening before our eyes.
ThresherK (GPad)
@lamh36 : Yes, excite the R’s base with Pence, because their vote then count…double? Is Moore that daft?
I am looking for a media figure who’s going to say in real time that that right wing base is shrinking faster than they can count.
amk
@lamh36: contrast between mcangry and flake couldn’t be any starker. hope the corrupt cowardly fucker loses this time around.
Mike in NC
Cool with Kaine, even though he slightly resembles the creepy pharmacist from ‘Desperate Housewives’. On the other hand Drumpf and Pence need straightjackets.
BlueDWarrior
@? Martin: I think what we have been hearing from are the ol’ yelling purity progressives who have been mostly quiet since Obama won in ’08, but they were at their loudest in 2002-06 during the height of the Bush admin.
Personally, I’m in the same boat. Anyone can say the right thing, but fewer can actually do the right thing, and then keep doing it at whatever capacity they have. Hillary and Kaine have shown me, in their varying capacities, they are more prone to do the right thing than the wrong thing.
Now let us hope (and ensure) they can convey that successfully to the rest of America.
amk
nydn
WaterGirl
I was so disappointed in Kaine’s tenure at the DNC that I had forgotten how much I liked him when he came out for Barack Obama in 2007 and did such a good job representing him in the media.
Big thanks to the person who linked to the “Why I Picked Tim Kaine” article in the previous thread. I really liked what Hillary wrote about Kaine. Between that article and the reminders of why I liked Kaine so well in 2007/2008, I feel oddly excited about this pick. He seems like the right partner for Hillary, and they look comfortable together.
Omnes Omnibus
@WaterGirl: You’ve really come around since earlier today.
lamh36
Don’t get me wrong, I’m NOT hyped by Kaine at all. I’m just mostly “meh” about him. He’s neither grand nor exciting, but he’s NOT bad and compared to Trump/Pence..I’m okay with that.
Saw some on twitter comparing folks saying Kaine worded as Civil Rights Atty and work with and for minorities to Bernie folks touting Bernie and that whole MLK march. It’s not a valid comparison, IMHO.
The point with Bernie was that they seemed to use it to defend Bernie against what many considered his tone deaf manner on things the affect Black folk.
Does Tim Kaine have a history of being as tone deaf as Bernie?
aimai
@lamh36: Of course its true. I’m so fucking sick of these self described progressive jerk offs lecturing Obama and now Clinton on how to President. They are never, ever, going to stop believing that if they don’t tell the black guy or the woman how to do stuff they won’t be able to figure it out.
Anne Laurie
@amk:
I’m just happy Hillary didn’t steal my Senator!
(/snark, for the humor-impaired)
Tripod
He’s a Jesuit – like the Bishop of Rome.
lamh36
@WaterGirl: I posted the link in this thread as well
Schlemazel Khan
@Omnes Omnibus:
So you are saying an organization started by a life-long Republican, a member of St. Reagan’s team eve, gives him a 100% rating? What more proof do you need that he is insufficiently pure? Dr. Jill Fucking Stein, here I come!
amk
Ana Navarro @ananavarro
Hispanic Outreach: @HillaryClinton has Spanish-speaking do-gooder who was a missionary in Honduras; Trump has Joe Arpaio…and a taco bowl.
6:28 AM – 23 Jul 2016
BlueDWarrior
@WaterGirl: Honestly, I think that is the biggest thing that needs to be dealt with, especially if Hillary wins with a turned-over Senate. Because we have got to find a way to turn over the House despite the Gerrymandering, and the DNC has been letting things languish. I would also hope we could dramatically improve the functioning of the State D parties in various high population states where I think we’re underserved as a party, the two biggest culprits being Florida and Texas. Even when we don’t win statewide, there is no reason why the legislatures should be as tilted towards (R)s as they are.
Omnes Omnibus
@lamh36: When he became mayor of Richmond, the mayor was selected by the city council. The city council that selected him was majority AA.
redshirt
@BlueDWarrior: 2020 elections will be the most important elections in several generations.
It’s our real chance to take back this country from the zombie hex of Reagan.
Kwame
Time Kaine was for “Project Exile” which fueled mass incarceration of black and brown bodies in prisons. Tim Kaine is for deregulation. Time Kaine has never uttered the words “Black Lives Matter”.
Trump-Pence is white supremacy.
Clinton-Kaine is white supremacy.
The two party system is white supremacy.
Watch NC, OH, FL now drift out of reach for Clinton as black turnout decreased dramatically from 2012.
Kwame
https://twitter.com/imaniperry/status/756646257502916608
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus: I know! That’s why I said “oddly excited”. Totally unexpected. I had turned a corner intellectually during our BJ conversation earlier and knew I would put aside my negative feelings about Kaine based on his DNC tenure, but actually feeling excited caught me totally by surprise.
I have pretty much avoided reading/watching/listening to Hillary until now, but I really did like what she had to say about Tim Kaine in that article and I think it helped me to hear her talk about why she thinks he’s suck a great pick.
Aleta
I’ll be happy with a VP who doesn’t torpedo, upstage or sabotage her, but is supportive and feels comfortable to her.
TheMightyTrowel
@Anne Laurie: no she’s MY senator!
(And thank dog she’s still in the Senate being hbic!)
Anne Laurie
@Mary G:
IIRC, Flake’s also the (R) guy who declined to show up at Trump’s Cleveland coronation because ‘I have to mow my lawn… all week.’
It’s important, as people have said already, because A Certain Democratic Candidate couldn’t even get any warm comments from his Democratic colleagues, while Kaine has a good working relationship with people on both sides of the aisle.
As President Obama has discovered to his sorrow, having a friendly VP working the Congressional ranks for you isn’t enough to keep Repubs from blocking every sane move, but it’s a start.
? Martin
@redshirt: Well, I wouldn’t go that far. We’ll see after this election what comes of the GOP. They’re clearly in a death spiral. I think guys like Flake get that. Their best first option is to simply let their folks make their positions known. Let them support immigration reform or gun control etc. and see where it takes the party. That would allow less batshit republicans stay in the party, and they need that.
Eric U.
@BlueDWarrior: Pennsylvania is horribly gerrymandered too.
Barb2
@eemom:
Ah yes – Dennis Kucinich – the crazy forced birth crowd could count on his vote until he thought he’d try for the white house. Then he thought he could come to WA state to run for a house seat. Women have a long memory.
chopper
@Kwame:
okay.
Jordan Rules
I loved learning more about Joe Biden once he was picked by Obama and I’m feeling the same way about Kaine.
Same ole purity poo fests are being waged I see.
And how about the fact that she takes this seriously and picked someone who could run the country if needed.
I’m excited damnet!! Fired up…
Technocrat
@amk:
Love that picture of HRC. She seems genuinely* happy.
* May not seem genuine to all members of the Democratic coalition. Your perceptions may vary.
Kwame
What does a pro-incarceration, pro-deregulation, pro-police militarization all-white segregated ticket have to offer POC?
WaterGirl
@lamh36: I often open a link in a separate tab and then read it later, so I had no idea who had actually linked it. thank you!
different-church-lady
Hey, the troll figured out a fresh schtick!
amk
@Kwame: LMAO. Where did you come from?
redshirt
@Kwame: Better than Trump if nothing else.
Emma
@Kwame: Nice first try. It lacks a certain rhythm but I’m sure you’ll improve with practice.
TheMightyTrowel
@Aleta: I’m really liking this trend of finding senior white dudes who don’t just work well with women or poc but are clearly thrilled to work FOR them and just as clearly admire them and ate outspoken about it. It’s an optics thing in the same way as, e.g. having a woman in charge of the campaign.
Lots of women are rising up to leadership and lots of the men who work for them ate dickheads about it and then pressure other men to be dickheads with them. Having a dude go ‘my boss is amazing!’ about a woman over and over is good optics, good role modeling and good for other women leaders.
redshirt
@different-church-lady: There’s no positive ID yet. It’s best to hold off accusations for now.
jl
@Anne Laurie: A lot of the pundit nattering I’ve seen this afternoon over Kaine is that he a ‘safe pick’, so that shows something something about how HRC will run a ‘safe’ campaign. Yeah… maybe… But it’s getting into mind reading and risks lost in a hall of mirrors perceptions-make-reality world.
But you know, Tim Kaine is an actual person, who has agency, and probably would like to win, and has shown he can win and will work hard to win. He is smart, agile and canny in debate, and has a progressive enough record. Seems to have a winning personality for this campaign.
So, UNLEASH the KAINE! HRC has UNLEASHED THE KAINE. Watch him rip it up, in a confident but very friendly way, of course.
And get the guy a gym membership and a crash program so he can make bland heart throb Joe RX-blah-blah Ryan look sad.
I’ll send the HRC campaign some Kaine gym membership money and suggest a workout.
Irony Abounds
@lamh36: As an Arizonan, I thought Flake was a complete loser, but lately he has shown signs of being at least an honest conservative Republican, as opposed to the batshit crazy hateful piece of shit that typifies your average Republican in Congress these days. He has been vocal in his disdain for Drumpf, and his tweet regarding Kaine is classy if nothing else.
Tripod
@amk:
Exhibit 435C: Trump is fucked.
Mnemosyne
@Aleta:
I was saying in the other thread that I think Kaine is strangely poised to be the white guy who drives Trump and his followers up the wall: he’s a Southern white man who speaks Spanish and is going to happily subordinate himself to a mere WOMAN. They’re going to go fucking nuts, and I couldn’t be happier.
Aleta
Also I hope this is a good sign:
(from the Al Giordano storify info about Kaine)
hovercraft
@lamh36:
Yes because of Virginia Tech. I think he was governor when it happened.
Despite being home of the NRA he signed some gun safety executive orders.
Omnes Omnibus
The new troll at least brings “diversity” to the table.
amk
AL, do the right thing. No need to follow cole’s shtick.
Formerly disgruntled Clinton supporter
@redshirt: yeah, there’s probably a 1 or 2 percent chance that this newbie isn’t a troll. And I don’t use that term loosely or lightly. Say what you will about srv or BIP, but they’re authentic known quantities. This smells different.
redshirt
@Irony Abounds: Everything I hear about Flake makes me like him.
Tell me something bad. Yes, I’m sure he votes strict party line Repuke.
Peale
@Mai.naem.mobile: Um. No. You do not want a Democratic party broad enough to include Jeff Flake. Sorry. But we had something broader at one time recently and no one liked the prima donna more conservative members who held up Obama’s more progressive wish list, got wishy washy on health care reform and kept the stimulus from being truly stimulating.
different-church-lady
@Formerly disgruntled Clinton supporter: This smells like UNLIMITED CORPORATE CASH with an alternate persona.
redshirt
@different-church-lady: He can’t do alternate personas. At least we’ve never seen ANY evidence to date.
I think y’all are too quick to shout “TROLL” whenever some truly different opinion comes through.
Just chill and engage for a while.
Kwame
Mighty white of y’all to write off a POC perspective on an overwhelmingly white blog as “trolling”.
Let’s talk about Kaine’s support for Project Exile, a program that targeted Communities of Color in Richmond for mass incarceration in privatized prisons.
redshirt
@Kwame: This is what I’m saying.
Aleta
@Mnemosyne: I like that picture !
I’m not well-informed on the objections, and no cable, but it’s hard for me to see how progressives could be unhappy about a pro-immigrant guy who can deliver speeches in Spanish and supports reproductive rights, in this climate.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kwame:
Let’s see some links then.
Technocrat
@Kwame:
You’re not the first POC perspective on this blog, son.
Tripod
@Omnes Omnibus:
There’s this guy – first time poster, long time troll… and then there’s the Commander in Chief.
different-church-lady
@Kwame: Who said we were talking about you?
karen marie
@? Martin: My hesitation in believing Kaine “can get things done” is his poor performance as DNC chair from 2009 to 2011. He was completely absent during 2010 midterms. Otherwise, he’s not a bad choice.
Ridnik Chrome
I remember when our acting governor picked Kristin Gillibrand to fill Hillary’s Senate seat in 2009. She was an upstate congressperson with a fairly conservative voting record, and liberals were incensed about it. And yet she’s turned into a pretty progressive Senator, in part because she realized that New York is a progressive state. I think Kaine will turn out much the same way. As someone pointed out downstairs, the Clinton people are not touting his moderate bona fides, they’re touting his liberal ones.
Darkrose
@Mnemosyne: Is there a way to find out if your info is on the list?
amk
@Kwame: Apparently, he has 94% rating from naacp. You got anything to say to that?
Formerly disgruntled Clinton supporter
@different-church-lady: Agreed, I could definitely see Right To Racism pulling that sort of sick sh!it. Plus the comments are getting more and more transparently bs, which is kinda his thing.
hovercraft
@lamh36:
He worked with victims of housing discrimination, minority and disabled. Worked with death row inmates. Interesting tidbit from Lawrence O’s show tonight, his wife’s father was a republican governor of VA, and he sent his daughter to a majority minority school back in the sixties, was a pro civil rights republican, was eventually run out of the party by the southern strategy. Kaine and his wife also sent their kids to public schools which were majority minority. So his civil rights record seems to be very substantial, and consistent over time.
Aleta
@TheMightyTrowel: it’s a huge change, and makes all the difference in whether the work gets done right
Mnemosyne
@Darkrose:
According to the Slate article, you should be able to go to Wikileaks and search for your name and/or info.
Irony Abounds
@redshirt: He pretty much does follow the Republican line, but since there truly is no bipartisan legislation these days, all Senators pretty much follow their party line. He has supported comprehensive immigration reform, including granting illegal immigrants temporary legal status. Surprisingly for a Mormon, he has not been totally anti-gay, although he has supported the Federal Marriage Amendment in the past. Again, not my favorite guy, but he shines in comparison to most Republican scumbags (a low bar, I admit).
hovercraft
@Formerly disgruntled Clinton supporter:
I think it’s here to give us the perspective of people of color. You know because there are virtually no people of color who are regulars here. It will be such an honor to be graced with whatever wisdom it cares to impart.
lamh36
I suspect the claim of “pro incarceration” is due in part to this –> Kaine’s crime-busting past may hurt Clinton’s outreach to blacks
But ”
If Black turnout goes back to Pre-Obama levels…HRC STILL wins though?
Stick to the linked source thing and NOT the added hyperbole. That’s an opposing discussion worth having
Technocrat
@Mnemosyne:
This sentence makes me ill:
This is like when the supervillain tells you it’s an honor to die for his new world.
FlipYrWhig
I can’t even begin to say Fuck You loud enough or frequently enough to all the dipshits who are already moaning and groaning about Kaine, using HuffPo bullshit and their own limp judgments about the meaning of true progressivism. And it’s all the same horror show human beings who suck Bernie Sanders’ withered ass uncritically. I hate that fucker, I hate what he did to the so-called left, and I’m pretty well sick of the intense nonsense that his crowd insists on stewing in permanently.
NotMax
No Friday foodie thread?
Kwame
@Omnes Omnibus:
Don’t know if they will go to moderation or not but here is what Proect Exile was. Would appreciate if whites don’t comment on my link, this is a POC-only conversation.
redshirt
@FlipYrWhig: Anger leads to hate, hate leads to Trump.
hovercraft
@Technocrat:
Shhh, don’t you know he’s schooling us.
redshirt
@Kwame: So are you not going to vote Clinton because of this?
Vhh
@Kwame: a lot more than Trump. And a chance to get elected in the nastiest campaign ever. Kaine has been a mayor of a largely black city, a state leg, governor, and senator. All in a purple state with diverse population. Speaks Spanish fluently because of service in C.America, has lived a generous life. And never lost an election. I’ll take it.
Omnes Omnibus
@lamh36: Thank you for providing a link.
different-church-lady
@Kwame: How do you know which of us is of what race?
NotMax
@Kwame
Wowsers. Amazing Kreskin wannabe.
Now, without removing the blindfold, tell us which finger I’m holding up.
Technocrat
@lamh36:
Project Exile was targeted at illegal gun offenses. I find it weirdly problematic to equate “mandatory minimums for gun offenses” with “putting black men in jail”. Unless, of course, one accepts the frame that black men are equivalent to crime, and therefore all anti-crime measures are anti-black. I know you aren’t making that equivalence, BTW. But it’s implied in the nature of the criticism.
What’s often left out of these discussions is harm. Some dude who gets 20 years for a bag of weed is not the same as someone committing a crime with a gun. Some anti-crime measures also make life safer for black people.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kwame: I appreciate the link.
schrodinger's cat
@Omnes Omnibus: I don’t think he is new, he just has a different name.
burmspbesq
@Technocrat:
I must have missed something: is he running for U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York? Cuz unless he is, his position on securities law enforcement is really kinda trivial.
NotMax
@Kwame
Overweening presumptiveness.
Not your blog. You don’t get to set the rules.
dmsilev
@NotMax:
Pinky?
hovercraft
@Kwame:
Who the fuck are you. If you want to have a private conversation get your own fucking blog, or better yet go find a chat room with like minded douche bags like you. Now get the fuck out of here, and you can kiss my black ass.
BlueDWarrior
I still say we need better trolls, if we have to suffer trolls at all.
Then again me might actually be a legit purity pony, who knows.
different-church-lady
@dmsilev: Yes, Brain?
Omnes Omnibus
@Technocrat: Crime was a major issue in the ’90s. The CBC supported the now hated Crime Bill. Things were tried that didn’t work and some that did.
ETA: Not meaning to tell you stuff you already know. Just adding on to your comment.
dmsilev
@different-church-lady: Maybe we need color-coded handles. I’ll take plaid.
Technocrat
@hovercraft:
Tell it.
dmsilev
@different-church-lady: Are you pondering what I’m pondering?
NotMax
@dmsilev
Dang. Got it in one.
Any tips on the 3rd at Hialeah?
;)
redshirt
@dmsilev: Maybe if our responses were color coded? Might be a good way to separate the wheat from the chaff.
Omnes Omnibus
@different-church-lady: Golf clap. Or rather: Poit!
redshirt
@BlueDWarrior: I’d bet money he’s legit.
Technocrat
@Omnes Omnibus:
Yeah, I know. My most heated arguments with current Progressives (many of them black) are about that bill. I have a lived experience of it that is, shall we say, wildly at odds with the current perspective.
burmspbesq
@smintheus:
As a one-time political science major, let me send an exceedingly friendly “you’re a fucking moron if you care about NOMINATE scores” to one and all.
Omnes Omnibus
@Technocrat: Remember the GOP shit about midnight basketball at the time?
burmspbesq
@lamh36:
A Majority African-American City Council chose Kaine to be Mayor of Richmond. Make of that what you will.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kwame: Wait a minute, you don’t me to comment at your link or about your link?
different-church-lady
@dmsilev: I think so, Brian. But then what would we do with all the leftover trousers?
Kwame
@Omnes Omnibus:
Either. We don’t need a white perspective here. As an issue related to POC, you, as a member of a privileged group need to “stand up and step back”.
BlueDWarrior
@Technocrat: That’s because a lot of Black Progressive that’d you’d run into online I bet would have had malformed opinions or were completely incognizant of the context of that Crime Bill. They just know that a lot of things have happened in enforcement and we’ve had a steady rate of lots of black people, most of them men, in prison.
Personally, I am aware as I can be about the context, having read op-eds and news reports from the time period (I’m 31 just about so I would have been under 10 during the height of this), and while I can see the flaws in the bill, there were a lot of good things done.
So we need to do what any Progressive and/or liberal would do when we have a decent concept with flawed execution, we fix the things causing the bad execution of the concept.
At least I think that’s what we do, instead of yell incessantly about who was more right when it was coming down the pike.
patroclus
Kaine’s fine; albeit not exciting. He’s better than Vilsack, who fired Shirley Sherrod for nothing. But if he’s really pro-Brady, after the blatant deflating of the footballs and then the destruction of the cell phone, he can go to hell.
But for all you emerging Flake-fluffers, Mark Kirk is far better on the issues, he’s pro-choice, pro-gay rights, pro-Ginsburg and I’m still voting against him because of his idiotic position on the Iran deal and his willingness to support virtually every single one of McConnell’s filibusters and Tammy Duckworth is an infinitely better candidate.
aimai
@karen marie: The DNC isn’t responsible for the midterms–the DCCC and the DSCC are.
PhoenixRising
The link is to Wiki. Says that locking up bad guys w guns leads to lower rates of gun violence. Don’t feed the troll. Kaine is a brilliant pick and therefore we can expect stupid BS.
Mnemosyne
@lamh36:
Hm. Even within that article, though, most of the people quoted are reserved and waiting to see what Clinton and Kaine say. Like this guy:
This is going to be a very tough needle to thread this year, because we have both killings BY police and killings OF police. I definitely have federal standards for police training on my wish list.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kwame: May i ask who you are to impose rules on this blog? As a general rule, if I am a privileged party. I chose to stay out of conversations by those without that privilege. I learn more by listening. OTOH, you just walked into the middle of a conversation, said some stuff, and then told me I can’t participate anymore.
ETA: I won’t talk about your link. I will talk about lamh36’s link if I discuss the issue.
different-church-lady
@PhoenixRising: Now let’s be fair here: we could expect stupid BS if Kaine were a lousy pick too.
BlueDWarrior
@aimai: Which is a fair point, but I think better coordination between the Congressional Campaign/Re-Elect committees, the National Committee, and the State & Local parties can’t do anything but help.
Well unless one of those ends wanted to take full control of the process and we get into a turf war about who should be doing what and where.
Kwame
@PhoenixRising:
How is an all-white segregated ticket “brilliant”?
Why not not someone like Donna Edwards for VP? It’s time we stopped caring about white fragility.
different-church-lady
@Kwame: High reflectivity.
Kwame
@different-church-lady:
A party obstensibly committed to racial justice that shuts out POC from the ticket is not a laughing matter and only somebody up to their eyeballs in privilege could make it one.
different-church-lady
@redshirt: That would make it better how?
Technocrat
@Omnes Omnibus:
Ugh, yeah. That was the GOP at the height of it’s dog-whistling prowess. The sad thing is that the program was actually effective.
Shalimar
@Kwame: When did we care about white fragility? I’ll be damned if I ever did.
different-church-lady
@Kwame: Clearly we need bigger tickets.
BlueDWarrior
@Kwame: You know if you are legit, the last thing you should be talking about is nominating someone for the sake of Tokenism.
THe most important things from an executive are the policies proposed and the methodology of their execution, who that particular person is (or isn’t) is not terribly germane to either of the former.
dmsilev
@different-church-lady: I think ‘albedo’ is the technical term.
Major Major Major Major
I hate storify. Write a damn blog post.
adjusts onion
BlueDWarrior
@Shalimar: To be fair, there is always the contingent of centrist-ish people who worry about the hurt feelings of aggrieved white people when it comes to anything to do with social or economic justice vis a vis ethnic minorities.
Usually these people are wrong in their assessments, but when has that stopped anyone?
different-church-lady
@dmsilev: No, I’m pretty sure Kaine has some pigment.
gene108
@Kwame:
From your link.
A lot of tough on crime measures, in the 1990’s, were supported by the African American community, because their neighborhoods bore the brunt of ever increasing crime rates, with no end in sight.
No one could have predicted crime rates would decline for over 20 years.
amk
@patroclus: If we can replace flake with a dem, any dem, we would all go for it. In the mean time, we will take what we get. Wishing Duckworth the best to replace that fake moderate rethug.
Technocrat
@BlueDWarrior:
I think there is truth to that, but I suspect that a large part of the disconnect is that things just aren’t as dangerous today as they were then. You make different decisions in a burning building than you would outside. Similarly, it’s difficult today to appreciate how such a punitive bill could come as a relief to beleaguered communities back then. My daughter is one of those staunch critics, but she’s never known any really dangerous people. I grew up around quite a few of them, and testified at more than one trial.
I agree completely, really.
Aleta
Elephant celebrates Hillary campaign.
ETA Actually no, just happy.
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
I can understand why POCs might currently want to withhold their enthusiasm for this ticket so they can wait and see what happens, but the history (especially recent history) of both of these candidates is very promising, and I’m pretty sure they will both be doing a lot of outreach specifically to voters of color.
They’re going to need to prove themselves to be allies, but I think they’re both aware of that and willing to take on the challenge.
some guy
@different-church-lady:
my thoughts, re: “kwame” exactly. same schtick, different day. good call.
Technocrat
@Kwame:
But…wait…didn’t we just…I mean…
Kwame
Again, why not Donna Edwards for VP?
The Thin Black Duke
If this “Kwame” character is a black man, then I’m Taylor Swift.
Mnemosyne
@Kwame:
Because Donna Edwards couldn’t manage to win the Democratic primary in her own state.
In four years, Kamala Harris will be three-quarters of the way done with her US Senate term. Check back with us in CA then.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kwame: Give me the positive case….
Kwame
@Technocrat:
And? You want me to do a happy dance for you because my people got one, 1 person out of 44 since 1789? Fuck that, I want representation on every ticket from now on. No more segregated tickets. No more old white cishet men telling marginalized peoples to sit down and shut up just because they hold the “right” (as determined by white people) opinions on racial issues.
Major Major Major Major
I don’t think this is our friend Banny McBannedalot. Seems more like a… I don’t even know.
Omnes Omnibus
@The Thin Black Duke: Don’t make me post links to her songs. Just don’t do it.
oklahomo
@Kwame: Fuck you, you agist prick.
BlueDWarrior
@Kwame: You know there are more than… nevermind, you shine on you crazy diamond.
(Seriously, did he get the notice on how we of all parties were supposed to avoid Tokenism?)
The Thin Black Duke
@Omnes Omnibus: At least I didn’t say Britney Spears. I’m not a complete bastard.
Mnemosyne
@The Thin Black Duke:
What’s it like dating Tom Hiddleston? ;-)
Actually, this troll is starting to sound like an old-time one who IIRC was a black, gay man. Really loved to lecture all of us on our shortcomings as defined by him, and had some really wacky beliefs about women. Sadly, gay men are not always automatic allies of women, as I’ve found out IRL in the past.
different-church-lady
@The Thin Black Duke: I have all your records!
Omnes Omnibus
@Kwame: Who are Technocrat’s people?
jl
@The Thin Black Duke:
I believe that this “Kwame” is a ‘character’. But I’m white, so not allowed.
Kwame
Follow Samuel Sinyangwe on Twitter and learn about Campaign Zero. Join us to make a real difference.
some guy
being on vacation and watching that crazy shitshow on TV, I will be sonfucking glad when normal people come back on my TV next week.
The Thin Black Duke
@jl: Believe me, I don’t want him either.
oklahomo
@Kwame: What color do we need to be to join?
Jordan Rules
@Major Major Major Major: I’ve seen this before here with specific call for non-POC to not engage. It’s not RTR, but has been here before, knows the audience and still does this whatever it is.
Shalimar
@Kwame: Donna Edwards is a US Representative who didn’t even win her primary for Senator. No one on the short list was below Senator/Governor/Cabinet level experience. I love Donna Edwards and wish she had beaten Van Hollen, but it isn’t surprising at all that her name never came up for VP.
Technocrat
@Kwame:
No, but you could act like it happened, instead of trying to sweep the first black president off your shoulder. And personally, I think the idea of demanding a black person be on every ticket is unfair, unnecessary, unjust and ACTUALLY SUPER CRAZY.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne: I was speaking to this specific person who seems to have a particular agenda. I was not speaking to POC in general. I will note that a number of POC have stepped in here with their voices. Where their views contradict mine, I will give due deference. Kwame doesn’t seem to have the majority POC view on this blog – based on comments so far.
Shalimar
@BlueDWarrior: I have seen it plenty too and it is annoying and counter-productive.
I was teasing Kwame for using “we” to describe a group that he was never a part of. It bothers me when people do that.
Technocrat
@jl:
I’m starting to believe that myself. The “black man on every ticket” was probably an overreach.
Rex Everything
Also, Anne, please explain to us how great it is that Kaine’s rabidly pro-finance, hawkish, & anti-union and how you’re going to blame 2016 on Sanders after the whole world watched you shits fuck this completely up all by your damn selves.
? Martin
Even the liberal The Weekly Standard:
Yeah. I just don’t know.
David ?▶️Hillary/Harley Quinn 2016▶️? Koch
This was the day the Democratic Party died.
Tim Kaine is worse than Bush. He’s Bush’s 5th term.
Mike J
Remember on West Wing when Bartlett told Vice President Otter why he chose him as VP? He wrote a note and passed it across the Resolute desk. Otter had asked him, why did you pick me? Bartlett wrote, “because I might die.”
patroclus
@Mnemosyne: We’re not automatic allies? At least we can coffee klatch well though.
But, it’s Friday night and, based on our troll, we’re evidently playing oppressed minority games, so why not Dan Savage as V-P?? C’Mon! WHY NOT DAN SAVAGE???!!
gene108
@Kwame:
Why not Linda Sanchez? Or Tulsi Gabbard?
The Thin Black Duke
Seriously, I wish I could give this character the benefit of the doubt, but I can’t because I find it hard to believe the the timing of his appearance is a coincidence. I’m suspicious of somebody who has never been here before suddenly shows up and specifically tries to stir up shit just when things are going pretty good for the Democrats. “Divide and Conquer” is a reliable tool for ratfuckers. Uh-uh, I’m not buying it.
Major Major Major Major
@patroclus: that pasty white transphobic limousine liberal who shits on polyamory?
jl
@Technocrat:
” ACTUALLY SUPER CRAZY. ”
That kind of stuff could never happen at BJ blog, could it?
Anyway, from the link this person gave, it is not clear to me that this Project Exile is a major issue. And it turns out from a little google searching, has been apparently a common policing strategy that goes under many names in many jurisdictions. And Kaine was, notoriously, :”a supporter”: one of very many. So, how big an issue is this going to be?
I’m not a POC, so probably my question is invalid, but does the person have any links to news articles or histories of the controversies over it?
aimai
@Rex Everything: Kaine is anti union? Someone please tell Trumka who has endorsed him.
What the fuck is wrong with you people. You just lie and lie and lie about Democrats and their traditional allies and you don’t think anyone will bother to check out your story? No: Kaine is not anti union. No, he is not anti choice. No, he is not pro gun. Yes–he is a god damned progressive and is well liked and supported by all traditional democratic constituencies. Stop lying about him.
Mike J
@Rex Everything:
Kaine has a 94% rating from the AFL-CIO.
You’re more pure than Trumka?
Shalimar
@Technocrat: Technically, he said POC on every ticket. So I assume Tom Perez, or a random Castro brother, would qualify this time. Though he does seem abnormally fixated on Donna Edwards, as if there were no more likely POC candidates.
Mike J
@aimai: They’ve watched too many Republicans. They don’t think there’s any such thing as truth any more.
David ?▶️Hillary/Harley Quinn 2016▶️? Koch
There was a good case to be made for picking Taylor Swift. It would have revved up the youth vote.
But no.
Baud and Taylor too – 2024
Mike J
Omnes Omnibus
@Rex Everything: Go look at his ratings by unions etc. They are all above 90%. I am not calling you a liar, but I am saying your statements are unconnected with the facts.
patroclus
@Major Major Major Major: Okay, good point. Why not Barney Frank as VP??!! Why do we have a segregated all-heterosexual ticket yet again??!! Why do we have to worry about straight sensitivity like always??!!
Ruckus
@Rex Everything:
Ahhh, I see we are back to pissing and moaning about the fact that our lord and savior, Bernie Sanders, LOST the primary because not enough people voted for him.
It’s tiring, it’s a waste of brain cells, which of course you don’t seem to be using anyway…….
The Thin Black Duke
@jl: Dr. Cornel West, line #1.
Major Major Major Major
@patroclus: that Wall Street fellow with the, er, insert Jewish dog whistle?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Mike J: and “rabidly pro-finance” apparently refers to his letter asking for smaller banks to follow different reporting rules than the big, national banks. “Hawkish”? Rabidly hawkish? I honestly don’t know, but in the car this evening Rachel Maddow reminded me that Kaine has been one of the strongest advocates, against Obama’s stance, for a debate and vote on an AUMF for military action against ISIS. I haven’t had time to look at Kaine’s stance on such a vote, but calling for Congress to do its damn job wrt military action is a very good thing, IMHO.
Mike J
@Omnes Omnibus:
And look at his 0.00% rating from the NRA and compare it to elected officials from New England while you keep in mind that most of Virginia is rural.
Felonius Monk
He sounds somewhat like Jonathan Holland Becnel with a new schtick.
jl
They don’t do much research if they think this is a good place for a purity ball, do they?
Hope they waste a lot of money on this kind of nonsense trolling.
Edit: probably not Trump money, he is scheming today to form SuperPACS to crush his REAL enemies, Cruz and Kasich, and not much free media in an almost top 10,000 blog.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mike J: I wonder what you mean? Not.
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
I was trying to obey the rules and not address the commenter directly, but eventually I had to answer a question that had been repeated.
But I do think there are going to be some rumblings over the weekend from non-troll commenters because there is currently a fairly major trust divide between white feminists and (mostly African-American) women of color, so I’m going to try to stay mellow and not push too hard because I’m pretty sure the campaign is aware of the divide and has plans to help bridge it.
Aimai
@patroclus: wait! Isnt hillary a lesbian in a committed relationship with a muslim woman?
Technocrat
@jl:
I don’t think it’s a big issue, but I was alive then, so I have a different context. It might be the type of thing that could be blown into an issue, but it’s kind of hard to reconcile “Honduran missionary” with ‘hater of teh brownz”.
Also too, your question is not invalidated by your albedo =)
Major Major Major Major
@Felonius Monk: That was my thought exactly.
Technocrat
@The Thin Black Duke:
I wish you could give him the benefit of the doubt too, because then I’d be responding to Taylor Swift.
#Awesome #BlogBesties
ETA:
@? Martin:
That’s stunning.
Mnemosyne
@patroclus:
I can’t remember the details because it was a few years ago, but it was kind of bizarre. I mean, I’ve run into woman-hating Andrew Sullivan types before, but a sexist black gay man was kind of a unique blend.
Renie
why not a feline overlord on every ticket? Steve would do great!
patroclus
@Aimai: Oh yeah – I forgot. And she killed Vince Foster because of it (I think that’s the conspiracy theory). Okay, so it’s not an all-straight ticket after all. I can see why Dan and Barney were rejected. My gaydar on Kaine, though, isn’t even registering.
But if he really is a Honduran missionary, I think it’s possible that it was really him that planned the 2009 coup there – where’s Bob in Portland when I need him?
jl
@Technocrat: The mid-1980s to late 1990s was a miserably bigoted and misguided era that produced a lot of policies that can be considered discriminatory, or at least counterproductive, in retrospect, and many Democrats who were even slightly neoliberal or DLC types could be implicated one way or another.
Omnes Omnibus
@Renie: How many live to 35?
redshirt
@different-church-lady: It’s a new troll born among us. [email protected]
Jim, Foolish Literalist
jl
@Technocrat: I remember at the time wondering why all those old white farts were ‘allowed’ to get on national TV and spout racist BS all the time. One of the character assassination attempts at the time turned me into a die-hard Public Enemy fan. I remember thinking about the barbaric direction things like ‘scared straight’ and such like would take the country.
I got lots of patronizing counseling from my savvy white friends about ‘cultural’ issues and problems.
Edit: so probably why certain recent events have gotten me so steamed. Seeing these toxic con people trying to bring back those days where bigotry was paraded around in a very hypocritical way on bogus pretexts.
Omnes Omnibus
@jl: The CBC supported the bill. Let’s not rewrite history.
jl
@Omnes Omnibus: I wasn’t talking specifically about that particular bill. Just venting in general about the era.
Mike J
@redshirt:
For unto us a troll is born
Unto us a troll is given
Renie
@Omnes Omnibus: use ‘cat’ years not human years in counting
Technocrat
@jl:
The worst thing about that time, in retrospect, was the rise of the right wing media complex. That, to me, is the most damning legacy of the 90’s.
Public Enemy’s music holds up decades later, and in many ways so do their politics. Those guys were one of BLM’s precursors, IMO.
Omnes Omnibus
@jl: and yet?
Gravenstone
@Kwame: Aww, you’re cute.
redshirt
@Mike J: Say Yes!
Gravenstone
@Shalimar:
Maybe he’s nursing a crush?
Omnes Omnibus
@Technocrat: Good music always holds up.
LanceThruster
@Aimai:
Yoko Ono is on record as having tapped that.
Frankensteinbeck
@The Thin Black Duke:
I wanted to stay out of it at least until the regular PoC commenters gave their view. What I notice is how Kwame makes a point of inserting language hostile towards whites in each comment. While I suppose that could come from an actual PoC commenter, it’s a schtick of asshole white racists to pretend to be a minority and spew venom at whites. They see it as a sort of satire, opening the eyes of other whites to how it is minorities who are the haters.
TriassicSands
@patroclus:
Selecting a homosexual would have been a bold move. You should not expect anything bold from HRC. She’s as conventional as they come — actually more conventional than most. She’s competent to be president, but I think if you’re expecting any bold, risky moves from her, you’re going to be disappointed. When it comes time for her to fill her cabinet — assuming she wins — I’m expecting lots of very familiar and disappointing faces.
Clinton could have done worse, but just once I wish she’d surprise me with something inspired and inspirational. I have no reservations about voting for her, but she’s far from my first choice for president. Kaine was the safe choice. Yawn.
I had hoped that Clinton would choose someone who would have made me more enthusiastic about voting for her. Mission not accomplished. But I’m also not at all surprised, so it’s not a big thing.
Oh, well, this year has always been mostly about stopping the GOP from getting the White House, and secondarily with some luck taking back the Senate). The argument that Kaine helps her win Virginia doesn’t really seem to hold up, since her lead there is significantly larger than in many other critical states.
I’ve seen Kaine a little bit in the past and I don’t think he’ll do much at all to make the ticket more attractive. We’ll see.
One thing I know for certain — this isn’t worth arguing about.
Omnes Omnibus
@TriassicSands: Too fucking bad.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
How many electoral votes does your enthusiasm have?
Miss Bianca
@Omnes Omnibus: Wow, this is a new sort of troll.
Jordan Rules
…Ready to go!
Has been here before…it was a race v gender commotion when I engaged before. I do believe they are a person of color FWIW.
Anyway, still responding to friends about how disgusting Cleveland was last night and how we can GOTV creatively.
AnotherBruce
@aimai: Thank you, I was fucking wondering about this. Remember that Obama got blamed for this too.
ruemara
@Kwame: oh do fuck off. POC to POC.
john fremont
@Technocrat: I remember Rush Limbaugh ridiculing it at the time on his short lived TV show. What gets forgotten is that George HW Bush had been supporting the program as one of “The Thousand Points of Light.”
CarolDuhart2
POC here. No problem with Kaine whatsoever. Unlike Kwame and such, I am old enough to remember when certain communities were war zones due to the massive influx of drug money and drug rivalry. I lived upstairs from one drug dealer, and next door to another drug house. I worked nights and was always wondering if one of the clients might accost me. I walked past a store where they openly sold drugs and hung out. People wanted someone to take their fears seriously. There were anti-drug marches to confront dealers. (I remember watching one from my window). Locking some of the worst offenders at least until they matured helped here).
With some of the crime bill, rates came down enough that people could at least visit the community without a lot of fear. Indeed, a lot of formerly “fort Apache” style neighborhoods are now gentrifying because so many have moved out and been so since the 90’s and now live in the suburbs.
Kaine is, to my view, a good choice given his history. That we don’t have a person of color on the ticket isn’t as important as his history. And as for judicial reforms, back to back Democratic administrations could appoint justices that support the idea. Perhaps we could actually have a Dem congress that lasts more than two years and pass the needed reforms and have them actually signed by a Democratic congress. Perhaps we could have Justice Departments that actually put resources into reform and policies. A President H Clinton and a President Kain (if god forbid, it happens) would do that.
different-church-lady
Am I a fuckin’ genius or what?
Eli Rabett
@Kwame: No one knows you’re a poc on the internet
nastybrutishntall
@Kwame: I notice gender is absent from your schtick. This is some Hotep shit.
Sab
@patroclus: Vilsack fired Shirley Sherrod after Ben Jealous at NAACP condemned her publicly based on viewing the edited tape without giving her a chance to defend herself. Now that same Ben Jealous is all over the airwaves criticizing Kaine.
J R in WV
@Kwame:
On the innertubes, you can’t tell when a person is bright blue, or pink, or green just by looking at their posts. You have to read them over time and see who they are. There are lots of people of color here, and we mostly love their input. Because it’s good input, without reference to their national origin, or race, or sexual conventions.
If you think Clinton/Kaine will be worse than Trump/Pence, OK, go for it. I think they will be better for all of us, but that’s just me… What makes you think B-J is all white? Have you lurked here for a long time, and became convinced we drive people of color away?
Cause that isn’t how we work here. John won’t let us, and we don’t want to. He does a good job with sexists and racists. Banned.
Rand Careaga
@Kwame:
Settle for a pony, son?
J R in WV
@Mnemosyne:
Went there, looked me up, interface amateurish and poorly supported, “Your query returned no results” after several tries. No real confidence I’m not in there, although I never emailed with any of those guys. Very sorry performance by their coders. And management who did this thing. How important are these emails to the future of the nation and world? Nada
J R in WV
OT:
Hot and steamy here today, even in the deep woods. When I got up to (do toilet things) and got a drink of water at pre-dawn, there was a low layer of misty fog lying on the forest floor, very mystical.
I have always loved fog, as long as I could walk around in it as opposed to driving in it too fast. One morning on the early way to work, we cross a high ridge between two watersheds, with lower gaps in the ridge. There was an anaconda of thick fog about 50 feet wide moving up out of the east watershed, across the ridge-top and road at the low-gap, and down into the west watershed… amazing to see, would have been a wonderful video if that had been a thing back then in the late 80s.
Have only seen that the one time. Fog is so cool…
Richard Mayhew
@Kwame: Congress critter from a safe seat who just lost a primary vs a current senator, who also was Gov. And Mayor in a swing state
Yep all the same( and I have donated to Edwards for years now)