I’ve been impressed by how many right-wing pundits — George Will and Robert Kagan stand out — are so freaked out and upset about Trump that they’re willing to be anti-Trump all the time and note devote any columns to fragging Hillary. Meanwhile, the professional centrists continue to treat Trump and Hillary as two sides of the same coin:
Why is the convention so negative? For the same reasons next weeks’ Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia likely will be an anti-Trump orgy.
[….]Shouts of “fascist” from the convention floor, for example, would be the Philadelphia analogue of “Lock her up!” Smug dismissals of Trump’s populist approach and policies might be viewed by undecided voters as an indictment of them.
Ron Fournier and Matt Bai aren’t upset that the country could devolve into a fascist dictatorship under Trump (note: I don’t think it probably would, but some on the right make a good case that it might). It would just be further proof of the corrupt duopoly derp derp and, anyway, they have plenty of money so it probably wouldn’t hurt them much.
A lot is made about how the country has become too polarized and angry. Well, fury can be misdirected but being mad as hell is at least a sign that you give a fuck.
In the comments a few times, some of you have mentioned studies that show that people can’t make decisions if the part of the brain that deals with emotion is incapacitated. I hate to go into Boboish pseudoscientific gibberish here, but I do think that sober-minded, nonpartisan, objective blah blah blah analysis has its limits. That it’s not just that Ron Fournier is a sociopathic asshole but that the whole nonpartisan project is doomed to failure.
Baud
Damn. I don’t recall seeing a both sides article that was prospective rather than revisionist. We’ve turned a corner.
Kwame
Will Tim Kaine finally say the words “Black Loves Matter” today?
D58826
I know it will be lost on the both sides do it crowd but you can’t stop every idiot from shouting something stupid. On the other hand you can shut it down from the podium. McCain did it in 2008 while Palin encouraged it. Obama has consistently shut it down when he is speaking. I would expect the democratic speakers will do the same next week,.
Chris
It says a lot about the Villagers that it the Republican Party had to scrape as far down the bottom of the barrel as Donald Trump before they’d admit that, okay, yeah, maybe the Republican Party can in fact be as bad as the Democrats.
(I don’t believe they’ll ever work their way around to “worse,” of course).
MattF
My motto is that politics matters. And although I’ve got my views, and I’m damned certain that those views are correct, it’s a fact that ‘non-partisan’ is a mirage and a fallacy– like the claim that saying you don’t have a philosophy means that philosophical questions are unimportant.
Cacti
The Germans didn’t think their country would devolve into a fascist dictatorship either.
Then the Reichstag fire happened.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Which “policies”? “Build the wall (and make Mexico pay for it)”, or “Bomb the shit out of them and take their oil”? I’m not aware of any others.
I always said about Broder that when the only point on his political compass was “bipartisanship”, which led to the intellectual and moral bankruptcy of soft-peddling torture and pretending the Iraq War was just something that kind of happened, and could have been managed better, and anyway happened a very long time ago. With Fournier (and many others) the only point on the compass is “entitlement reform”, and anything else is a silly distraction.
Did he ever do that other than that one time when the woman who looked for all the world as if she was not all there had him clearly in a camera shot and started babbling about Muslims? (From a purely PR/political standpoint, I could never figure out how she made it through a screening process, or just that McCain handed her a mike, if it were an unplanned thing). I always thought he got much too much credit for that. I remember one speech where somebody yelled out “Kill him!” and McCain (to my eyes) kind of blinked in surprise and carried on with his speech. See also, Joe the Plumber.
Kryptik
Empathy is considered a sin in politics, not just from the professional sociopaths on the right but from the stilted “both sides same thing” dogmatics.
Gravenstone
@Kwame: Fuckwit you can’t even get you alleged pet peeves right. Go troll somewhere else you over the top useless waste of protoplasm.
Linda
Seriously, what did you expect? That Fournier would admit he was a ballless wonder the last several years and watched the GOP get crazier and crazier, with his tongue glued to the roof of his mouth, because he hates lefties and didn’t want to imperil his access to powerful people? That the central thesis that gave him access to power was Both Sides Do It? They are not scared of a coming fascist state. They are scared of the media gravy train, built on kissing both buttcheeks, going away via radical change in which one side IS really evil.
It reminds me of the part of Mike Royko’s Boss, where Cermak, the mayor of Chicago, was assassinated in the 1930s. Royko wrote that the people who attended his funeral wept and prayed, because would have to someone new. Mainstream media is just hoping that they can keep the Both Sides Do It status quo going on and on.
cmorenc
Trump has lost: not just George Will and Robert Kagan, and some usual GOP polite-apologists like Michael Gerson and Jenifer Rubin.s but freaking Red State – whose article-writers and posters lately could almost be mistaken for Balloon-Juice progressives, but-for the occasional lapse into waxing poetic about Cruz’s lost cause in 2016 the way neo-Confederates still speak of the glorious lost cause of “true” constitutional conservatism.
Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporatist Shill
I’m rapidly reaching the conclusion that the Trump campaign is thoroughly penetrated by the FSV/Putin, and that he will be a completely obedient Putin puppet.
Critics will suffer suspicious deaths at the hands of non-Americans (FSV agents and Brighton Beach thugs), and others will be blackmailed via wikileaks hacks. Meanwhile, NATO will devolve, Gazprom will gain further power and monopoly control, European rightist nationalism will increase, religious bigotry will increase and Putin will become a hyperpower of one man.
donnah
I hope and expect that the tone of the Democratic Convention will be the opposite of the Republican one. I expect messages of hope, redemption, equality, support for the lower and middle class, anti-racism, and a spirit of good faith over fear.
The hatred and vitriol that Trump embrases is destructive on so many levels that we need a freshness and new enthusiasm for the country. I hope Hillary and Kaine can do that.
Kathleen
National RePublicAn Radio’s top story at 12:00 PM today was coverage of the Clinton/Kaine appearance in Miami. While the apathetic enthusiasm gapped crowd roared in the background, NPR was tut-tutting the Wikileak email “embarrassment” and made it sound like it was the most egregious something something ever. I didn’t listen long enough to see if they provided “context” about Wikileaks, e.g., the timing of the “leak” or the fact they only went after Democrats.
Baud
@donnah: It will be, but it’s not like they will ignore Trump altogether. That never happens.
p.a.
A CNN chyron this am: Undecideds Key to Election (paraphrase) has me very concerned (not snark); if you’re undecided after the last 8 years you’re a moron IMHO and will probably chose the moron party.
The sound was off, so I don’t know if undecided numbers will really make the difference, or if it comes down to GOTV for those who already know, or what combination of the two- say the very very unlikely event undecideds break 80/20 ish.
trnc
It doesn’t actually have to to do a lot of damage. There are currently 90 federal judicial vacancies that Trump would be happy to fill with whomever Tom Cotton and Thom Tillis want.
MomSense
@Cacti:
The artists knew. They were ignored. My stepdad barely made it through alive. He was a Jewish musician. Because my friends are mostly artists (poets, painters, musicians, dancers, designers) they are very clued in to all the warning signs and do not minimize the dangers of a Trump presidency.
Baud
@p.a.:
I don’t think this is true. I actually expect most of them will break for Clinton.
hovercraft
@Baud:
All week on morning joe. the both sides do it contingent kept batting down any suggestion that the convention tone was too negative by saying that it was sad but to be expected because both candidates are so disliked that their only hope is to drive the others negatives down even further. Yes they were being nasty about Hillary, but the democrats would be nasty about Trump, so deal with it. Never mind that saying that someone is incompetent, unqualified, erratic, and pointing out their inconsistencies, is the same as calling someone a liar, a crook, and a murderer.
Villago Delenda Est
Sorry, can’t feel empathy for sociopaths like Fornier, or Drumpf.
Empathy, like loyalty, is a two-way street.
Kwame
Reminder: six black men can’t vote for Clinton-Kaine because they were executed by Kaine when he was Governor.
MomSense
@Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporatist Shill:
Yup. This Trump spectacle has FSB/Putin stench all over it.
Baud
Looks like we have a new troll. Welcome!
debbie
@Kathleen:
I’m still listening, and they’ve covered both the Russians’ motivations and that DWS was less than even-handed. Are you implying one of those things is untrue?
scav
@Gravenstone: He didn’t even manage the typo correctly: Today’s is “Black Olives Matter.” The green ones are making away with all the pimentos, and we won’t even discuss the swimming rules in martinis.
Because Jebus the Fuck, if there is one issue that doesn’t deserve to be trivialized into the lapel tiepin trite alligence soundbite of anyone, it’s people being killed by officers of the state.
Kwame
Funny that people are so upset about Russia “interfering” in our elections when we’ve been doing just that to black and brown countries for years, in ways that make WilkiLeaks look like child’s play.
smintheus
A genuine question about Mr. Law’n Order: Back in 1984 Geraldine Ferraro was hit pretty hard with allegations (true apparently) that her husband had Mafia ties. Where has the news coverage been of Donald Trump’s Mafia ties? I’ve seen virtually nothing to date.
It would seem especially relevant with Trump portraying himself now as the “only” person in the US who can stem the tide of rampant violence and crime.
Villago Delenda Est
@Baud: He’s dogmatic, but he’s a different flavor than srv or UNLIMITED CORPORATE CASH!
debbie
@MomSense:
This Frontline documentary on Putin was excellent.
Baud
@Villago Delenda Est: Absolutely. I’m a little ashamed that I can usually recognize the various different styles.
Tokyokie
Ron Fournier isn’t a sociopathic asshole as much as he is a thorough and self-delusional incompetent who continues to deny the danger to life on Earth posed by an shallow, impulsive, ADHD, narcissistic sociopath having a very real chance of becoming the most powerful person in the world. But then, Benghazi or Vince Foster or something.
Davis X. Machina
@Baud: They’re not all the usual chuckleheads, not this year.
The Trump campaign, as constituted, is a machine for converting “R” to “undecided”.
Cacti
@MomSense:
If another 9/11 type event happened during a Trump Presidency, I don’t see a scenario where a GOP Congress doesn’t hand him his own version of the Enabling Act.
Donald Trump frightens me in a way that no other Republican candidate has in my lifetime.
scav
@Villago Delenda Est: Not really, the bulk of it and even the language structure is pure wonder bread, with a thin smear of chocolate instead of grape jelly.,
bystander
@Baud: If Andrea Mitchell weren’t on MSNBC right now, I would wonder if we weren’t having a celebrity sighting on BJ. Mitchell and Joy Reid (I’m sorry to say, because I used to think she had integrity) are pondering how violent the bernistas will be next week and how upset they are with the Kaine choice.
I like Kaine. He’s a KC guy who went to Rockhurst High. He’s smart and he obviously has a profound commitment to social justice. He also respects the law.
Cacti
@Kwame:
Funny that Russia has done the same, but you omit that from your tut tutting.
Davis X. Machina
@smintheus:
. That’s “stem the tide of disorganzed crime….”
Kathleen
@MomSense: Thank you for sharing that. I feel a part of me is still in some state of denial. I can’t let myself think of it. The denial of the terror I feel deep down is not healthy for me.
Baud
@bystander: “Violent” is way over the top. My guess is that there will be some antics, which the media will completely overplay.
Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporatist Shill
@Villago Delenda Est:
In Allen Drury’s wingnut canon, once idiots like Fournier wake up, it is too late, and Russia’s American puppets consign them to mental institutions.
gogol's wife
@Cacti:
Trump’s thirst for power is not reassuring. I was fooled like everyone else at first, thought he was just a grifter trying to enhance his brand, but something has changed. S–t has gotten real.
Kathleen
@debbie: Probably jumped the gun too quickly. I let NPR do that to me for some reason. Don’t know that I really have a problem with what DNC talked about. I don’t think they did anything to undermine Bernie.
wvng
One might note that the neocon/conservative leaning Post editorial staff is NOT whiffing on Trump. The Post began a long and blistering editorial like this: “DONALD J. TRUMP, until now a Republican problem, this week became a challenge the nation must confront and overcome. The real estate tycoon is uniquely unqualified to serve as president, in experience and temperament. He is mounting a campaign of snarl and sneer, not substance. To the extent he has views, they are wrong in their diagnosis of America’s problems and dangerous in their proposed solutions. Mr. Trump’s politics of denigration and division could strain the bonds that have held a diverse nation together. His contempt for constitutional norms might reveal the nation’s two-century-old experiment in checks and balances to be more fragile than we knew.”
washingtonpost.com/opinions/donald-trump-is-a-unique-threat-to-american-democracy/2016/07/22/a6d823c…
Baud
@gogol’s wife: The something that changed is that GOP voters said they wanted him.
Percysowner
Since I want to hear the Kaine rollout I turned on MSNBC to wait for Clinton and Kaine to appear. As far as I can figure, from the talking heads, Hillary is a political dimwit who has no clue as to who she has to win over in order to win this election. By choosing Kaine she has alienated the African-American base and they won’t be inclined to turn out. The Latino base isn’t going to be excited enough to show up either. She has totally blown off the progressives who are so terribly important to win over to her side. The fact that most of them already say they’ve moved to her side is ignored. Honestly, I don’t know how this incompetent campaigner with zero sense of how to win voters over ever managed to win the nomination. Of course, the person they are describing doesn’t sync up with what I’ve seen of Clinton and her campaign, but apparently I’m wrong and she’s a doofus. I guess she should have found a biracial AA/Latino VP whose name is Bernie Sanders. Or maybe she should just have given up and admitted that even after winning more votes than Sanders that he is the better candidate.
I turned off the volume because I was getting annoyed. So right now I’m missing blond person and Ben Jealous explaining to Joy Reid all of Hillary’s shortcomings.
Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporatist Shill
@Kwame:
Your concerns are noted.
Fuck off and die.
gogol's wife
@Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporatist Shill:
You are expressing my worst fears. I hope they’re exaggerated.
If Ivanka starts playing the cello, everybody duck.
Villago Delenda Est
You know, I’m not going to vote for Hillary simply because she doesn’t have a dick any more than I voted for Obama simply because he was blah.
I voted for Obama because he was the best person for the job, given the realistic choices available. My vote for Hillary will be for the same reason. If some white male dude who wasn’t a cryptofascist were the Democratic nominee (yes, even Bernie!) I’d vote for him. If it were a Latino dude, I’d vote for him. If it were a blah lesbian, I’d vote for her. Because the alternative is a fascist asshole.
Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporatist Shill
@Tokyokie:
He is a mediocrity’s idea of what a smart “both sides” pundit sounds like.
Bill E Pilgrim
One of the funniest things I ever read was Matt Taibbi in a live chat he did about one of his books, telling how he was invited to sit with David Gergen and someone else, and at one point when Gergen said something about how that would “alienate the Republican base” or hurt their feelings or something like that. Taibbi blurted out “Oh screw the Republican base” and Gergen went into actual live-action fainting couch mode, saying “Did you just say screw the Republican base??” which he confirmed yes, yes I did.
Later that day from something Gergen said Taibbi and his editors realized that Gergen thought it had been Matt Bai he was meeting with, and was shocked that a Villager like him would say such a thing. That evening he said they were laughing hysterically at the thought that Gergen was going around telling everyone what an asshole Matt Bai was.
Baud
@Villago Delenda Est: If the Dem ticket were Randolph and Mortimer from Trading Places, I’d vote for them in this election.
aimai
The right wing Washington elite–the admin people, the pundits, the grifters, have always been protected from the mouth breathing, increasingly feral (in Roy’s term) base. They used Mitch McConnell and Boehner and the Senate and Congress generally as their lion tamers/circus leaders and didnt’ bother themselves with the hoi polloi. They just used them every few years for their votes. Now they have discovered that the rabid circus freaks they were raising in the basement want to come out and play, and sit at the family table, and they are shocked and horrified.
But its only what we call the “comprador” class, or the intelligentsia or the people who make money on the side of politics who are upset. Not the actual congressmen and senators. They just have to keep control over their own constituents. Where they are secure, they could give a shit about Trump. Where he might cost them an election, they are upset. But they knew what their voting base was all along. They sure aren’t surprised and they don’t see any way to reject the republican party because the party/voters are supporting trump.
I guess what I’m saying is that its not surprising that Kagan or any of the other fetid/feted observer class are jumping ship. They are true believers who thought they were using Cletus and the Gun Clinging Racists just to get into power. They didn’t realize those guys had an actual agenda to enact.
gogol's wife
@bystander:
He went to Rockhurst? I keep forgetting to look him up on Wikipedia. I’ll have to do that. Where did he live, do you know?
Villago Delenda Est
@scav: Point taken. “Flavor” does imply a strong distinction, which is probably unwarranted.
debbie
Sigh. How annoying that the speeches by Kaine and Clinton haven’t started yet.
Nylund
@Baud: yes. It’s a whole new genre. “one side actually did this, the other side may possibly do this, so both sides do it!”
MattF
@Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporatist Shill: I’ve just started reading Arkady Ostrovsky’s new book ‘The Invention of Russia’ and I have a feeling that it’s going to confirm all my suspicions about Putin. Amazon link.
The Ancient Randonneur
Arkansas Sheriff wants cops and citizens to take back the country (Facebook link) This guy is in law enforcemnt and is a government sanctioned agent authorized to take away your liberty. He keeps talking about the thin blue line as if it is some holy thing to be workshipped. Seriously. Look at the whole page. but the video at the top of the timeline is really telling.
Nylund
I think one could make a legit comparison between fascist/authoritarian vs socialist/Marxist name-calling, but I think it’s a real stretch to fit a “jail your political enemies” stance into that dichotomy.
Tokyokie
@Percysowner: Maybe she looked for a gay Puerto Rican convert to Judaism and couldn’t find one.
MomSense
@Kathleen:
His campaign has been constant “othering”. One of the most appalling narratives was that all Muslims (including our president) were in on Orlando and San Bernadino and were concealing these imminent attacks and cheering for them. Then idiots like Gingrich were all too eager to say we should monitor them in their neighborhoods. This is the authoritarian MO. The enemy is among us. Watch them, question them, turn them in. I mean how else could you possibly deport 11 million undocumented people? You need people ready to turn them in. How do you get people to do that? You talk about how they are rapists and murderers who are killing our best and brightest. They aren’t even trying to hide the evil.
gogol's wife
@MattF:
I just bought it too, it got a rave review from Serge Schmemann. I liked the beginning.
MattF
@Nylund: Um, what?
aimai
@Villago Delenda Est: You know what–even AA voters didn’t vote for Obama just because he was a black person. Historically they had been voting for the white Democratic candidate for decades in record numbers even though all those presidential candidates where white. Ditto for me as a woman–I’ve voted for the best Democratic candidate in every election since I was old enough and every fucking time it was a guy. What’re the odds of that happening?
But I was excited to be able to vote for Obama because he was such a superlative choice for Democratic President and because he also happened to be a ceiling shattering, world historic, figure in our racial history. And the same goes for Hillary.
I get that there are people who see identity politics as kind of dirty–as though voting for someone from your tribe was shameful. As though white guys haven’t been able to do so for generations without even thinking about it. But to the rest of us, those of us who have to live life in our marked categories, marked skins, marked bodies–it can be a wonderful moment of affirmation. Affirmation of desires and dreams we didn’t even know we still had, that we were too cynical to even express.
bystander
@gogol’s wife: No street address given, but when they said his father was a welder, he was Catholic and he grew up in KC, I knew he went to Rockhurst.
hovercraft
Andrea Mitchell is very concerned about how Tim Kaine is going to be able to convince black and latino voters that he is on their side. Yes he was a civil rights lawyer, and the mayor of a largely black city, and he speaks fluent Spanish, and was a missionary in Honduras, but this record is slim and selling it will be a stretch. Someone like Cory Booker would have been an easier sell. Last time I checked we black people have been voting for white candidates for years, Booker is my senator and I like him, but his Wall St. and AIPAC proclivities trouble me. Mrs Greenspan’s concern trolling implies that now that there is no person of color on the ticket minorities will not be enthusiastic about coming out to vote, we’re not stupid, we knew that the chances of back to back POC tickets was slim. We do have another first on the ticket as it is and that’s great. Hillary fought for and with Obama after a contentious primary and we appreciate that. There was a reason she did so well with POC in the primary, we know her. The media seems to forget that we vote on what we see as our own best interests, and who we trust, we don’t need a POC in order to support the ticket, it’s about policy. There is also the small matter of the person who we’re running against, that will galvanize the minority vote. Between the ticket, the campaign and the surrogates, the GOTV effort will be massive.
Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporatist Shill
@gogol’s wife:
If my scenario is the case, kudos to Putin and his FSV planning team – it was brilliantly executed, and there is a shouting alley scrum in hell between Brezhnev, Andropov, Malenkov, Kruschev, Stalin, Bulganin and Arbatov with lots of finger pointing and shouts of “failure”, “it was doable” and “why didn’t you think of that”.
Frankensteinbeck
@Linda:
I would add that the vast majority of national journalists and pundits basically agree with Trump. They have always been terrified of brown people, totally dismissive of women, viewed LGBTs as curiosities rather than people, and loved, loved them some arrogant asshole hawkish foreign policy. Their only problem with Trump is that his tone is embarrassing. They really don’t want this stuff revealed as bigotry.
For the openly Republican icons it’s a flip side of the same thing. They’re freaking terrified that comfortable whites will wake up to the fact that the GOP is run by bigotry, and are yelling ‘Trump is not what Republicans are about!’ He damn well is.
I do see a slow drip of John Cole disease, where conservatives are slapped so hard by Republican evil they realize Democrats are on the right side of almost everything. Let that continue, please!
Gindy51
@gogol’s wife: Those loans from Russia aren’t going to pay themselves back, you know…
Schlemazel Khan
@Baud:
I’m pretty sure it is an old troll who just thought he could be clever by picking a black sounding nym. His old act was tired & not getting the results he had hoped so he has chosen a new approach with the belief that in the end he can claim we are all racists because we won’t agree with a ‘black man’ that Dems are the real racists & the GOP is the African American’ bestest friend.
ChrisGrrr
@D58826: Yes, thanks – the response from the party leaders and figureheads is telling. I have every reason to expect sincere opposition to stupidity, at the DNC. The “major” party platforms make it clear that Both Sides could hardly have motivations and goals that vary more. Since there are so very few media “professionals” that will risk contradicting their corporate directives, we have work to do on the phone and door-to-door, but I got busy for the last two presidential campaigns… and GOTV wasn’t icky at all, really.
gogol's wife
@Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporatist Shill:
Trump hadn’t been born yet!
Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporatist Shill
@MattF:
I need to read that.
Baud
@hovercraft:
Maybe Kaine can send out a video clip showing them what Andrea Mitchell thinks of their approach towards civil duty.
Cacti
@MomSense:
His talk of walls is another huge red flag.
Walls are just often used to keep oppressed people in, as they are to keep undesired ones out (see Berlin, The West Bank, ethnic ghettos, Bantustans, etc.).
Shana
@Davis X. Machina: re: converting Rs to Undecideds – I think that may have played into Hillary’s pick of Tim Kaine. While he does have good liberal bona fides which most people don’t know about yet, he is a sensible, pragmatic politician who won’t scare the bejeebus out of Rs who don’t want to vote for Trump,
Baud
@Schlemazel Khan: Could be. Maybe it’s Putin himself.
Quinerly
@hovercraft:
Great post. I turned off the sound when Mrs. Greenspan finished. Turned on NPR with the MSNBC picture on. NPR is actually covering Kaine in depth….not skewed.
hovercraft
@Baud:
You’re not allowed to engage him, he wants to keep his conversations to the black people on this ‘white’ blog. Funny thing though, he only seems to respond to the white commentators. He shat up a couple of threads last night. Good times.
Felonius Monk
@Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporatist Shill:
You could be correct. If Ted Cruz winds up floating face down in the East River that will confirm it.
Baud
@hovercraft: It’s ok, stewardess. I speak jive.
Keith G
@Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporatist Shill:
Huh?
If Putin and his people were involved in Trump’s campaign, it would have been a much smoother convention and Ted Cruz would have never made it to the podium.
Felonius Monk
@Baud:
Old troll with new glasses and a mustache.
Dadadadadadada
@Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporatist Shill: I lol’d. Well done.
Bill E Pilgrim
@Nylund:
You think the Democratic National Convention will be advocating Marxism/socialism as it nominates Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine?
Because the RNC was very clearly and vigorously advocating authoritarianism. So where’s the “legit comparison”? Or where could it even be?
Baud
@Bill E Pilgrim:
Maybe he’s Andrew Sullivan.
Hal
@Schlemazel Khan: Yeah, not buying the Kwame act at all. Probably rise up or whatever that person’s pseudonym was.
Villago Delenda Est
@hovercraft: Mrs. Greenspan has a very low tumbrel manifest number, with good reason. Not as low as Chuckles the Toddler, but in the mid to low double digits.
Quinerly
@Percysowner:
Do what I did. Keep the sound off, picture on. Turn on NPR. Actually great coverage. Nice personal things about Kaine…how and why she picked Kaine. She called him. At 7:30 last night. Second call was to her old boss.❤
Chip Daniels
What is ironic is how the Villagers have spent so much time covering for the rabid Trump base, yet are unaware of the seething hatred that very same base has for them.
If Trump were truly unleashed, Fournier would likely be one of the first against the wall.
Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporatist Shill
@gogol’s wife:
True, but the idea would be that there would have been some other grifter available earlier to prop up into right wing politics.
Jonny Scrum-half
@p.a.: I don’t know that “moron” is accurate. The strength of the non-stop propaganda against Clinton for the past 20 years, facilitated by the useless MSM, should not be underestimated. I was talking to a friend (an immigrant from SE Asia) about this election, and although he likes Obama he nevertheless said the he was uncertain about whom to support in this election because of Hillary’s lying and general untrustworthiness. I wasn’t able to persuade him that, while Clinton has her faults, the Republicans – and Trump in particular – have gone completely off the rails.
Cacti
@Hal:
Yup.
Our new friend “Kwame” seems very likely to be a Caucasian, right wing, rodent copulator.
amk
@Percysowner: do these librul morons even know that it’s was the AA women who put the well known ‘clintonite’, macauliffe over the top in VA?
Bill E Pilgrim
Trolls oh right I keep forgetting about those.
Note to self to spend more time on the Internet.
Wait what (rips up note).
bystander
@gogol’s wife: Kaine grew up in Overland Park.
I thought the KC paper would be headlining it. Buried.
aimai
@Felonius Monk: The tip off was the googly eyes on springs and the exploding cigar.
Frankensteinbeck
@MomSense:
I saw the ‘Muslims knew’ speech and it terrified me.
@Schlemazel Khan:
I think it’s an old (white conservative) troll getting his racist ‘black people hate Whitey’ freak on.
amk
this place has become a
chicktroll magnet.Cacti
@Chip Daniels:
I think Fournier would be one of the first “unbiased centrist” journos to prostrate himself and swear fealty to his new overlord.
Schlemazel Khan
@Baud:
I thought BiP was Putin
Baud
@amk: I take it as a sign of success. Like celebrities and the paparazzi.
BR
Anyone have a link to a youtube live feed of the Clinton-Kaine rally? I’m trying to watch but can’t find it, and the news org feeds aren’t working for me.
Baud
@Schlemazel Khan: Too obvious.
Dadadadadadada
@Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporatist Shill: George Wallace comes to mind.
hovercraft
@Percysowner:
Yes Ben Jealous is very bitter, the wikileaks story this morning has revived all of the woe is me from the primary over the DNC. Ben and Nina Turner ( of course now a msnbc commentator), have been all over the tv since the announcement bitching about Kaine being a slap in the face. Ben is now relitigating all the primary crap, superdelegates, open closed primary, fracking, says that if these issues are not resolved the Bernie supporters will not unify. So I guess we’re still at the give e what I want or I’ll kill us all stage.
Technocrat
@Schlemazel Khan:
He figures that he can hit people in a way they can’t hit back. I’m actually pretty disgusted by the tactic, in a way that bog-standard trollery doesn’t inspire. It’s internet blackface.
Dadadadadadada
@Cacti: But even that wouldn’t save him.
Quinerly
I’m really hoping Tim Kaine plays the harmonica today! He’s quite good. NPR has just told me….Mrs. Greenspan has hidden this info from me.
amk
@Baud: nah, fuck cole and other fp’ers who act as if they are wanna be libruls.
now Adam? I can dig him.
hugely
@Baud: I think he’s a Doughy Pantload type – someone that thinks they are smarter than they actually are. Honestly someone named Kwame complaining about capital punishment reducing the vote for the Democratic ticket… They think they are clever but that statement just shows that it is a dimwitted sociopath
Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporatist Shill
@Frankensteinbeck:
Hey, did anybody ever find the whitey tape?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@amk: this closet-Republican evil Clintonite?
I was disappointed to see Joy Reid talking about Kaine as some kind of pawn of a “Cilntonite” machine. For all that MacAuliffe is doing a good thing here, I know about his past, but Kaine was governor before MacAuliffe, Obama named him head of the DNC, he’s hardly some stooge from the Clinton foundation.
CarolDuhart2
Hillary Clinton Unity Rally, Now!
Cacti
@Schlemazel Khan:
I think in reality Bob in Portland was actually Yuri in Volgograd.
Baud
@hovercraft: I gave up on Ben Jealous when he tried that Goldwater Girl argument on MSNBC a while back. I expect that from Twitter, not a high-level surrogate.
I’m disappointed about Nina Turner. I had thought she was a serious person.
Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporatist Shill
@Dadadadadadada:
I saw an old Wallace 1968 commercial earlier this week – same Trump message, zero natural delivery. He’d have been a perfect Soviet puppet.
Baud
@CarolDuhart2: I wish people were more enthusiastic about her.
cokane
I def think a big chunk of mainstream media has been way too indulgent of anger and paranoid rhetoric in the recent decade or so. Issues are being blown way out of proportion and the progress we’ve made from the past (and even relative to other countries) is often completely ignored.
Villago Delenda Est
@Technocrat: Being a shitstain is something that cannot be relieved by the color of one’s skin. Most of us here at this blog act on the “content of character” meme.
Quinerly
HRC looks so joyful! Great chemistry. My eyes have watered up. I kid you not. That hate fest affected me more last week than I realized. Kaine is such a pleasant looking person.
Baud
@Villago Delenda Est: C’mon. I’m proof that’s not true.
amk
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: stop crowding my already small bubble with facts, dood.
Ultraviolet Thunder
@amk:
I started hanging here years ago (under a different nym) when I abandoned Tomasky at The Guardian. His pieces were great but the comments were infested with bridge dwellers. 60% trollage by weight. I think my first comment here was to remark on how free of threadcrapping trolls it was.
Quinerly
That does not appear to be a flag pin Senator Kaine is wearing. It’s a HRC pin! I do believe we have our first major scandal.
Schlemazel Khan
@Technocrat:
I have seen the act on several sites. Usually the tell is a stereotypical ‘black’ nym combined with a very odd collection of beliefs and an aggressive attitude spoiling for a fight. They always, ALWAYS pull the “you liberals are all the real racists and I just proved it” grand finale. They pretend they won.
Frankensteinbeck
@Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporatist Shill:
Yes! Now they’re hunting museums for a still-functional VCR so they can watch it.
Baud
I don’t know if it’s just the way the video is shot, but that crowd looks huge.
smintheus
Obama’s DOJ arrested one of his large donors from 2012 for massive Medicare fraud. Of course the guy also gave money to Republicans, so will that be trumped up on Fox as the Muslim Kenyan being mean to Republicans again?
Technocrat
This isn’t even accurate bothsiderism. The actual analogue would be Joe Biden on stage going “WHO’s A NAZI!?”.
I actually think Clinton should start peppering her speeches with FDR and Churchill quotes.
Kathleen
@MomSense: Oh, I know. It’s not just Trump either. Any one of those candidates would be a dystopian nightmare. I’ve been saying for years that Republicans are evil (going back to 1968) but this current crop, Trump and their followers bring a whole new level of malevolence. No doubt terrible things would happen. I know that. I just think I’m in denial to some extent of how terrified I am.
Matt McIrvin
I’m starting to get around to unfriending my Bernie-or-Buster friends on social media who have gone over to explicitly saying they would prefer Trump to Clinton (on the theory that Trump won’t really do anything but Clinton is a competent supervillain). I feel like I’m letting down the side by not sticking around and trying to change their minds, but I can’t take it any more. I don’t think they’re fertile territory.
Quinerly
@Baud:
Both Ben and Nina have greatly disappointed me. I do think I read that they were well paid surrogates. Not just volunteering their time for the Revolution.
Quinerly
@Matt McIrvin:
I unfriended a bunch in the fall. Everytime I posted anything about HRC (and I was also posting positive BS stuff at the time), they would reply “Bitch” or “Cunt.” Glad I got rid of that crowd months ago.
Baud
I can’t believe she doesn’t have HILLARY emblazoned in gold behind her.
Amateur.
CarolDuhart2
time.com/4420457/hillary-clinton-tim-rally-livestream/
Jim, Foolish Literalist
! ! ! That would surprise me.
I did see Jealous last night (Maddow?) state as a fact that Kaine won’t help HRC in VA, and this went unchallenged. I think you can argue that the Veep choice doesn’t make a difference, or that Perez’s support with Hispanics would have been more valuable in FL, but that seemed like a really silly statement.
Kathleen
@Quinerly: As I told @debbie, I flew off the handle when I heard NPR’s opening. Thanks for providing more context.
aimai
@Technocrat: The right both-sides-do-it would be Obama calling for Nuremberg trials and summary hangings of Trump and his associates, or maybe urging his willing voters to go out and Kristall the Nacht out of all Trump emblazoned crap.
Matt McIrvin
@Quinerly: Reading these people just makes me feel like death is coming for us all, soon, very soon, and they’re just driving the car full speed right off the cliff and cheering as they go, because they think they’re driving away from something worse.
Hal
@hovercraft: Ben Jealous has surprised me the past couple of days. Yesterday it was how Kaine does nothing for Clinton. What about Elizabeth Warren or Jennifer Granholm. Today he’s complaining about super delegates and how they Sander’s campaign wants them as part of the rules negotiations. Why are we still discussing this shit?
Technocrat
@Baud:
After seeing how the election of a Black president inflamed every racial grievance in existence, I’m not surprised that a woman candidate is doing the same for misogyny. I am shocked by how deeply-rooted and pervasive it is.
It makes me re-evaluate the deconstruction of Palin, frankly. She was a vociferous moron, but not significantly more so than say, Steve King.
Iowa Old Lady
@Baud: I belong to a closed internet group of writers who are mostly women. We almost never talk politics because we don’t know one another’s affiliations, but yesterday, someone mentioned Clinton. At least four women spoke up and said the loved Hillary but never said so because they were afraid of blowback from Republicans, Sanders supporters, or general Clinton detractors.
A similar thing happened when I was talking to a woman friend in Madison. We somehow realized we both supported Clinton and both felt this enormous relief at being able to confess it.
Quinerly
This is a FABULOUS speech. It’s hitting all my erogenous zones. I don’t smoke but I’m going for a drink afterwards. Want to thank some of you BJ commentators for some smart and wonderful posts this last week. Great community.
BR
@Matt McIrvin:
Just convince them to vote third party. That’s all that matters.
Anoniminous
@Matt McIrvin:
One of the basic facts of politics is there are votes you have, votes you can get, and votes you cannot get. (Hopefully the first two outnumber the last! :-) Working to get votes you cannot get is time wasted from working to get votes you can get.
Baud
@Technocrat: While I was never post-racial, I did not expect the intensity of the blowback we saw with Obama. I won’t be fooled again.
BTW, to be clear, the crowd is crazy enthusiastic.
BR
I’m surprisingly liking Clinton’s speech. Her speaking emphasis is still lousy — she’s not a great speaker — but her speech is solid.
Matt McIrvin
@Felonius Monk: I keep wanting to explain to him about the life and times of RtR just in case he actually isn’t RtR. But I figure it’s best to just wait a few days; if he’s the same guy it’ll become obvious pretty rapidly. RtR tried to adopt a liberal concern troll persona a little while ago and he couldn’t hold it together for more than about a day.
Quinerly
@Kathleen:
Didn’t hear the opening. They had a lot of time to fill because of “Clinton Time.” I thought it was great for the most part. Background stories on Kaine…really personalized him.
amk
@BR: Yup. Can’t convert them, at least divert them.
Baud
@Iowa Old Lady:
People talk about hidden Trump voters who aren’t reflected in the polls, but I think there are also hidden Clinton voters who aren’t reflected. We’ll see which group is larger, I guess.
Baud
Kaine’s up.
Baud
Espanol!
El Caganer
@Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporatist Shill: Ask Kwame.
BR
Seems like a mensch — I’ve never used that word before, but it seems to fit.
Matt McIrvin
@BR: They’re already doing that, so my work is done.
Quinerly
@Baud:
And he’s great! I’m thrilled!
Baud
@Matt McIrvin: Good job.
Anoniminous
@Baud:
Good Goddess! Is that old chestnut floating around this early? Usually it isn’t trotted until the last week of a losing campaign.
Baud
@Anoniminous: It’s been weeks, if not months.
Technocrat
@aimai:
Obama should break this out at the DNC:
We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in Ohio,
we shall fight for the cities and suburbs,
we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength over the airwaves, we shall defend our democracy, whatever the cost may be,
Quinerly
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I saw Ben Jealous last night too. Maddow was off her game. He wasn’t challenged at all.
Baud
They’re playing the Putin card!!!
Emma
@BR: I don’t see any evidence that they can be convinced of anything.
Quinerly
@Baud:
And the Marine card! And the NATO card!
Bill E Pilgrim
Not sure the FEDEX logo would have been my first choice.
BR
@Emma:
I think the Bernie die hards can be convinced to not vote for Trump. They may stay home or vote Green or whatever.
MattF
@Iowa Old Lady: You may be right, but I’m skeptical about any ‘hidden variables’ argument. And there’s empirical support for that skepticism– Sam Wang’s analysis has evolved over the years to rely more and more on actual polling data, rather than various kinds of ‘other’ data.
The Other Chuck
@Matt McIrvin: I laid down the law on my FB page, saying anyone who still supports Trump is a bad person, and needs to unfriend me now. And this was before the convention.
Listening to some podcast the other day with Dr. Lawrence Britt, one of the foremost experts on fascism, saying Donald Trump can’t be called fascist because he doesn’t directly foment violence on a societal scale (thuggish behavior at rallies is apparently insufficient) nor does he have any brownshirts terrorizing people due to a lack of civil order in the overall society.
So I suppose that makes Trump merely a proto-fascist … or a cut-rate cheap plastic knockoff of a real fascist. He’s ticked off all the other boxes though, so I’m going to respectfully disagree with Dr. Britt and continue calling Trump what he is: a fascist. I remain optimistic that he’ll be a *failed* fascist in November.
Quinerly
@Baud:
Flag pin or HRC pin? Doesn’t look like a traditional flag pin to me.
Kay
National media matters less after Labor Day because it narrows to certain states. I’m genuinely curious how that will look. Clinton will have really robust state operations and Trump has only national media.
Bush was really good at making a national campaign seem “local” and of course Obama is the damn master of that strategy. There will be this huge hole and I’m not sure all the national pundits in the world can fill it. Trump doesn’t even have any surrogates. Kasich announced today Trump won’t win Ohio. Compare that with what will be every big-city mayor in Ohio working for Clinton. Trump actually has anti-surrogates,state level :)
Emma
@BR: From your mouth to the ears of the deity of your choice.
Quinerly
Unions! Kansas!
Baud
@The Other Chuck: An incompetent fascist.
ThresherK
@Baud: Really? I remember plenty of FutureCrime items by the PreCogs about the bad things Dems were “sure to do” after R’s did them. Can’t put my hands on only one, tho.
Matt McIrvin
@Technocrat: Sarah Palin was deeply horrible, but the attacks on her often were baldly misogynistic, and I always hated, hated, hated that. Same for people making transphobic cracks about Ann Coulter, and sexist and racist ones about Michelle Malkin, etc. That these people are themselves sexist and racist and transphobic is no excuse.
Technocrat
@The Other Chuck:
Oooh, ooh. Can we call him a neo-fascist? That seems to be the cool thing nowadays.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin: Agree. We’re better but not perfect.
Iowa Old Lady
@MattF: I don’t know how hidden we are as Clinton supporters, but I do think we keep our enthusiasm hidden. Assuming enthusiasm matters.
Schlemazel Khan
@amk:
I have been doing that with some gooper friends who won’t vote for Hair Drumpf but I can’t convince Clinton isn’t Satan in drag. Johnson/Weld could end up around 10% but that would be all out of Drumpf’s hide. I also have been suggesting staying home would have a bigger impact as the reduced number of voters would be more noticed. I like that option better myself as it denies down ticket Republicans their vote. Trollin’ IRL!
MattF
WaPo will run a full-page editorial tomorrow: Donald Trump is a unique threat to American democracy.
Anoniminous
@Baud:
Really. huh
That’s … extremely interesting. Makes me think they are already projecting Trump is going down to a massive defeat.
Villago Delenda Est
@Baud: Maintaining the horse race narrative is job #1 for the Village, because it’s intimately tied to their overall #1 job; generate revenue through advertising.
Baud
@Technocrat: Ha. I had a comment the other day about how the cool new thing is to a “neo-” to everything. It’s the neo-thing to do.
Kathleen
@Iowa Old Lady: I’ve read articles online about other women who have experienced reluctance to publicly express support for Hillary. These articles stated that the women they’ve interviewed are reluctant to to express their support out of fear of retaliation and harassment.
Trentrunner
Hey, I like this Tim Kaine guy!
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@The Other Chuck:
Did you see this article about Trump’s flavor of fascism? It puts the notion that fascism has to look like Berlin in the 30s, or Franco’s Spain, in the dustbin. Fascism takes on the form of the popular culture of the place and time – in current America, it says, it comes in the form of reality TV and the come-on cas!N0 barker. It’s to be taken seriously.
Kathleen
@Quinerly: Good. I’ll learn to settle down and listen for actual facts (imagine that) about a report before judging it. You’d think I was unleashing my inner Wing Nut or something.
Baud
Now they’re playing the dictator card. Awesome.
amk
@Baud: fake fascist.
what? wus going for alliteration.
BR
@Trentrunner: I was about to say the same thing — I’m liking Kaine.
Quinerly
@Trentrunner:
He’s the New Biden, for me.
Baud
@Quinerly: He needs a Corvette stat!
Anoniminous
@Kay:
WHAT?!?
Kasich just effectively said Trump has lost the election.
Matt McIrvin
@Cacti: I think BiP is a sincere American lefty. He reads and believes stuff by Yuri in Volgograd just because it’s anti-American-Empire. The actual paid Russian trolls hang out in higher-volume places; this blog is small potatoes.
Trentrunner
@Technocrat:
1. Misogyny is far more pervasive than racism.
2. Misogyny is much more socially acceptable than racism.
So, yes, this campaign–a woman vs. the walking embodiment of misogyny–will be an orgy of misogyny of every kind and at every level.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Trentrunner:
He’s a solid guy, nice face, nice smile, sunny and optimistic regs nice white guy. How can you not like him? Solid, smart pick.
p.a.
@Baud: I’d say the photoshopped cannibal-grass-skirt-bone-through-nose pic was an early clue.
Quinerly
@Kathleen:
I learned what a great harmonica player Kaine is from NPR trying to fill time. All great coverage
the Conster, la Citoyenne
Baud
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: In all honesty, Clinton had a lot of stellar people to choose from, Internet kvetching notwithstanding.
Quinerly
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
So pleasant and joyful looking!
D58826
Listening to Kaine. Tell me again why the progressives are disappointed? Sounds like a guy who has walked the walk not just talk the talk.
Trentrunner
So far, I prefer Kaine to Biden.
Biden always had just a tad too much of the grandstanding blowhard about him, though I love him.
Kaine just seems like a mensch.
Baud
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: . . to paaaaarty!
amk
@Schlemazel Khan: The best kinda trolling. Keep it up.
Kathleen
@Quinerly: Cool! Thanks.
Quinerly
@Baud:
I think the Vette does stay with the office. Uncle Joe will be waxing it up. It will be cold in January so he’ll probably wear flannel.
Felonius Monk
@Baud:
Which one of these is derDrumpf?
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@D58826:
That’s why they don’t like him – he’s effective and doesn’t run with scissors. No scolding, just working to push the issues forward, which makes him part of the sell-out Establishment.
Quinerly
@D58826:
I agree. I’m beyond thrilled. And there’s real chemistry between them. Our gal has done good. NPR had some back story…looks like Podesta gave the nudge in the right direction.
scav
He’s also got a nice easy conversational style of speachifying.
Baud
@Quinerly: Did I read somewhere that Obama recommended him too?
p.a.
@The Other Chuck: I believe the old quip went something like: Nazi Germany is a fascist dictatorship, Mussolini’s Italy is a semi-fascist dictatorship, Franco’s Spain is a hemi-semi-fascist dictatorship, Salazar’s Portugal is a demi-hemi-semi-fascist dictatorship.
Of course to the victims it doesn’t matter how many dashes are involved.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Baud:
Yes. He was an Obot, and on PBOs short list.
Baud
He’s talking about CHIP. Kay will be happy.
Mnemosyne
@Quinerly:
I was listening to the speech in the car and, man, it was a breath of fresh air after the RNC. It was all “we” and “us” and “better together.” I am not someone who responds well to fearmongering, so it was great to get a full blast of optimism.
Felonius Monk
Tim Kaine is such a stark contrast to Mike Pence (Trump’s pet rock and fall guy).
Baud
@Mnemosyne: The DNC will be amazing.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
Free college!
Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporatist Shill
@D58826:
You answered your own question. They’re the Teatards of the left – deeds are tertiary to message and pissing liberals off.
scav
@p.a.: hemidemisemiquaver-fascist? hemidemisemiquaver rest-in-peace. teeeeeeny little gravestones, so it’s easy to miss them.
Technocrat
@Anoniminous:
Welp, there goes another $10 million in anti-Kasich ads. Trump can’t let that stand.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
Tax returns!!! Trump is going to have a stroke.
His Spanish is so good, he can tell jokes and gets the humor. Huge asset. A white guy from the South who speaks Spanish is also going to make Trump have an aneurysm.
JPL
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Debt free college… I’m not sure that means free..
Quinerly
@Kathleen:
NPR was filling time with how she called Kaine last night at 7:30. Then called Obama. It seems that John Podesta was the push. I want more on the full story but it was something like Podesta saying “you have to pick someone you are glad to see when he walks in the room and you smile.” I just love that story. NPR filled time with it. Mrs. Greenspan didn’t want me to know that?
Baud
“Thanks for choosing us.” Sweet.
Matt McIrvin
@Anoniminous: I hear liberals worrying about the hidden shy-Trumpster vote a lot. It echoes the speculation about the Bradley effect doing Obama in in 2008. I suspect there are plenty of shy Trumpsters but plenty of shy Hillary voters too, especially women who don’t want the grief. But I don’t know if either group will actually lie to pollsters. I suspect there’s less inhibition about confessing your vote to a pollster than there used to be. Sampling problems are probably bigger.
The Brexit vote revived a lot of that speculation, because it did seem as if the national polls in the UK undercounted the Brexit vote by just enough to predict the wrong outcome in the aggregate. But I personally suspect that was not people lying about their vote as much as it was a differential turnout effect.
MomSense
I’m going to cry. I ❤️???? Tim Kaine.
Applejinx
Jesus Christ. We haven’t even HAD the convention yet. Clinton’s people can even manage third party media, not to mention Twitter. There aren’t going to be any such shouts. It’s more than a little insulting to suggest there will.
As if the Democratic Party can’t come up with its narrative, work it out and talk it out (in email!), settle on a consensus approach that’s not too extreme or uncontrolled, and put that into fucking action flawlessly.
Fuck their ‘both sides are the same’ bullshit.
Quinerly
@Felonius Monk:
I already want Pres Kaine in 8 years. Hope I’m not getting ahead of myself.❤
amk
kaine is killing it. wtf even ‘safe bet’ mean?
the guy is eloquent unlike that moron pence.
JPL
NATO comments turned off some believers. My brother was not for Trump, but that comment pushed him closer to Hillary.
p.a.
@scav: they do tend fill up existing, and increase demand for new, graveyards quickly. Or at least pit graves, until the disposal becomes industrialized.
Baud
I don’t want to sound sexist, but I’m glad Hillary no longer has to take all the slings and arrows of this campaign by herself anymore. Kaine is a good surrogate and advocate for her.
Schlemazel Khan
@Quinerly:
Wrong car! The Vette is too upper class mid-life crisis for Joe. It has to be a Trans-Am or a Firebird!
The Other Chuck
@amk:
How about “fauxcist”?
Technocrat
I love seeing Hillz do the “mmm hmm, Preach!” face.
it’s hard to fake.
Mnemosyne
@Trentrunner:
I only figured out yesterday something that apparently Black Democrats have known since the beginning: Joe Biden is Barack Obama’s hype man. The hype man is often flamboyant (think of the archetypal one, Flava Flav) but he always brings the attention back to the lead and supports everything he says.
The dynamic is going to be different for Hillary, so she picked a different VP. As I was saying yesterday, I think Kaine is going to make Trump and his followers nuts, because he’s a white, male, devoutly Catholic (honorary) Southerner who speaks fluent Spanish and is willing to subordinate himself to a mere woman. They are going to lose their shit over the gender politics of this, and I couldn’t be happier.
Trentrunner
@Quinerly: Ditto. He’s only 57, right?
Quinerly
@MomSense:
I have been crying. HRC looks so happy. Last week was so dark. I realize now it was probably not healthy for me to have put myself through that for 4 days. This is such a release.
Matt McIrvin
@Anoniminous: Well, Kasich can say that as much as he wants; he can’t actually control whether Trump wins Ohio short of illegal shenanigans. But at least we know the governor isn’t on the side of that.
Soylent Green
Kwame is probably a ratfucker working to drive a wedge into the Obama coalition. We will see more of his ilk as this goes on. I’m convinced that Right to Be Risible is a parody troll, and a good one. I wish Adam would stop throwing him overboard; I thought he was fun to have around. Trolls can serve a useful purpose, prompting us to give substance to our ideas and to make our arguments stronger. Sites that ban all contentious people are merely echo chambers and BJ should be more open-minded.*
* Except toward Bob in Portland, fuck that guy.
Quinerly
@Trentrunner:
I think 58. Never has lost an election.❤
Baud
@Mnemosyne: There are no new stories.
debbie
@Trentrunner:
Call me spiteful, but I still haven’t gotten over Phil Gramm’s treatment of Brooksie Born. If that wasn’t the embodiment of establishment misogyny, I don’t know what is. And she was right about diversification!
Ruckus
@Baud:
Not quite enough macho.
Keith G
Just watched the Kaine speech. The GOP ticket is so in trouble. He definitely has the rare speaking talent that mixes intelligence, passion, and verbal smoothness (in two languages). Fucking smooth!!
D58826
He may not speak with the soaring poetry of Obama but he gets the job done and the crowd on it’s feet. And how he effortlessly slips into Spanish when talking issues important to the Latino community.
amk
hired president or fired president?
lol. the guy is good.
MomSense
@Quinerly:
Oh yes. This feels so good. I think Hillz is feeling good, too.
Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporatist Shill
@Matt McIrvin:
Say what you will about Sarah Palin 08 (and W, and Cheney, and McCain, and Romney, and Ryan), there was no worry about indentured service to a foreign power to worry about. Their ideas sucked and they’d have been awful executives (W and Cheney actually BEING awful) making all of our lives miserable, but there was no question that each one was working for what they thought would be good for ordinary citizens (Cheney could deliver the dissertation on the benefits blood gargling for profit). Putin’s puppet, though….
the Conster, la Citoyenne
This guy is fucking en fuego. Hillary passed her first real test with flying colors.
Quinerly
@Schlemazel Khan:
I sit corrected! A T top Trans Am. How could I be so out of touch?
rikyrah
Atty. refuses to remove Black Lives Matter pin, taken into custody
A Youngstown Municipal Court judge sentenced Atty. Andrea Burton to 5 days in jail, but the decision is being appealed
Published: July 22, 2016, 11:49 am
YOUNGSTOWN, Ohio (WKBN) – An attorney was removed from court and taken into custody after a judge declared her in contempt for refusing to take off a Black Lives Matter pin.
Youngstown Municipal Court Judge Robert Milich said Attorney Andrea Burton was in contempt of court for refusing to remove the pin in his courtroom as instructed. Burton was sentenced to five days in jail, but she has been released on a stay while an appeal is underway.
Burton will stay out of jail during the appeals process as long as she obeys Milich’s order not to wear items that make a political statement in court. If she loses her appeal, she will have to serve the five days in jail.
Milich said his opinions have nothing to do with his decision
Trentrunner
Wow. Not worried at ALL about Kaine in attack-dog role.
Very effective.
Technocrat
Holy shit Kaine is good. That’s how to speak to a crowd. Perfect cadence and timing.
Davis X. Machina
Lacks Uncle Joe’s rascal factor.
It’s a black day at The Onion.
Mai.naem.mobile
Tell me again why Tim Kaine didn’t run for POTUS? I wanted Perez for Veep so much I forgot I wanted Kaine for Obamas Veep and have him run for POTUS this cycle.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
Kids and families first. That’s a great point.
rikyrah
NC GOP Chair to Cruz backers: Find your own way home
July 22, 2016
North Carolina Republican Chairman Robin Hayes, who flew a private plane to the Republican National Convention, told two fellow delegates who had supported Sen. Ted Cruz’s defiant speech that he wasn’t giving them a ride home, the McClatchy Tribune reports.
Said Hayes: “I think you need to ride the bus home.”
“The episode underscores the fact that after four days of drama — and one memorable speech — unity remains elusive for North Carolina Republicans.”
amk
he likes trash talking everybody. oh, wait, he likes talk putin.
this guy uncle joe 2.0
deadbeat donnnie must be pissed off – how come I don’t guys like him on my side?
Schlemazel Khan
@Quinerly:
I just remembered the onion story about Biden & the Firebird from the Onion
There also was an indigogo campaign to buy him a Firebird. He auctioned it off for charity I believe.
EDIT: In trying to find a story on the indigogo thing I learned the Biden actually owns a Corvette! I guess he is not allowed to drive it though.
Quinerly
@D58826: @Baud: I agree on the slings and arrows. I feel like sometimes she is so alone. I know that sounds weird but that Chelsea piece in KOS just broke my heart.
Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporatist Shill
@JPL:
The NATO thing really pissed of a high school classmate of mine. He’s retired navy, now works in Brussels at NATO HQ. He had been a Trumpster.
rikyrah
☺Elle Marie, Esq.
I will say again, Tim Kaine was a genuine advocate for black law students at Richmond Law. Just on the strength of that, he has my vote.
Baud
This Putin thing will have legs. Good.
@Quinerly: What Chelsea piece?
the Conster, la Citoyenne
HOME RUN. Can’t wait for next week.
BR
He did a great job — I didn’t know what to expect, but he seems solid in every way.
Technocrat
Killer speech, just killer.
Who’s chopping those damn onions?
Quinerly
@Schlemazel Khan:
That’s what we were talking about. That Onion story…Uncle Joe with his shirt off, waxing it in the driveway.
Trentrunner
How good was Tim Kaine?
For just a second, I was wondering if we had the right person at the top of the ticket.
But I can wait 8 years. :)
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I confess Kaine wasn’t on my radar, and I fell into the trap of assuming the white guy from VA had more in common with Mark Warner or even Jim Webb.
I was also for Perez, but I think somebody with his resume needed some Obama-leval campaign skills to make such a jump, and the Clinton camp didn’t see that.
Keith G
Belly pats from the spouse. Now that got to me – intimate, yet unshowy affection.
japa21
@rikyrah: See, I don’t see the Black Lives Matter movement as political, I view it as human rights.
scav
Also, look at that background. One flag, front and center. Then, People.
Mnemosyne
@Mai.naem.mobile:
He’s younger than Hillary — only 58. Assuming she serves two terms, he’ll be only 66 in 2024 and ready to move up. Perhaps by then our California senator-to-be, Kamala Harris, will have some national experience and be ready to be his running mate?
Quinerly
@Baud: I think it was in KOS. How Chelsea won’t let her children hear the stuff that is being said about HRC. Stuff from the RNC. I’ll look for it.
amk
tough times don’t last, but tough people do.
great line.
bupalos
Dizzam. That was killer stuff. He’s going to be a great campaigner, he has a perfect pitch to counter the Trump phenomena of fear. This was 100% the right choice, great call hilz.
Baud
@Mnemosyne: Oh, man. I never want to lose the White House again.
Where are all those people complaining that our bench wasn’t as deep as the GOP’s?
LanceThruster
It’s gonna be like a grade school chop fight.
“I know you are, but what am I?”
Davis X. Machina
This will drive the deans, canons and deacons of the Church of the Savvy crazy.
No one’s supposed to take this stuff seriously.
You can’t not pretend it doesn’t matter.
What the hell is wrong with these two?
Two grown adults, who can’t figure out its all a vast, venal, self-serving shuck
They figured that out years ago.
It’s soooo embarassing.
Quinerly
@Keith G:
Loved the pat!
Pogonip
@Baud: Oh, stop pandering to the jive-speaking-American vote.
MomSense
@Mnemosyne:
I like that plan. She’s been on my list of rising stars for a long time.
debbie
That Truman quote was great. I hope it gets trotted out often.
Felonius Monk
@Baud:
The GOPers have a deep bench? — You mean those 17 Derp-merchants who couldn’t stop pissin’ in each others shoes?
different-church-lady
No, no, no, this guy is a catastrophe! Don’t you people know how to accept conventional pre-wisdom?
Ruckus
@Technocrat:
King and Palin are one and the same – both morons. Their genders do not figure into that other than how they look on TV. Even why they were able to get into any position of power at all is for the same reasons. They say what people who voted for them want to hear. They are morons who got ahead because their supporters are morons.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@different-church-lady: As a Joy Reid fan, I was surprised to see her being concern-trolly on Kaine, looking at her twitter feed, she seems to be changing her mind. The reaction I’m seeing (tweets, so FWIW) are pretty positive.
different-church-lady
@Matt McIrvin:
a) Call them politically incoherent. (It’s a perfectly fair and accurate statement.)
b) Then unfriend them.
scav
@Trentrunner: If she can pick up some speaking mannerisms and style from him (both by proximity and adjustments in speech-writers) that’ll be stellar. And he’ll have the opportunity to pick up some additional-level government expertise. Could be solid on both sides.
Also, found it a nice detail that he talked of supporting his wife in her independent efforts. That’s a solid gracenote about teamwork, even in family setting, and that he can do similar at this level.
Old Dan and Little Anne
I caught this whole speech by accident. Hot damn! Kaine killed it. Great speech!
Applejinx
@Matt McIrvin: I have just unfollowed one. Dude just won’t let up and he’s talking crap, over and over. There is no nuance to his position, he’s straight-up propagandizing. I’ve seen the same information on Kaine and dude claims it’s a slap in the face to progressives. I doubt he’s Putin-paid, but I just can’t watch his endless stream of bullshit memes anymore.
amk
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
pundtwits. always late to wake up.
Quinerly
@Baud: I think conventional wisdom is Kaine was Obama’s second choice behind Biden. Biden got the nod b/c of foreign policy experience. Kaine was a very early backer of Obama. I read that he encouraged Obama to run. Certainly shows that Hillary doesn’t carry a grudge. Kaine was always vocal about his support for Obama…early and often.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
She was given a bigger platform, and the chance to be a heartbeat away from the big chair, in a way that King never would be, and that I don’t think either of them ever could have earned, Take away the Veep nomination and she gets as much attention, and criticism, as Jan Brewer or Michelle Bachman.
Matt McIrvin
@Percysowner: Can you imagine what these bobbleheads would be saying if Bernie were the nominee? “Will Middle America vote for a socialist atheist Jewish guy with crazy Doc Brown hair? He’s crazy! The minorities hate him!” Etc.
amk
Nicholas Kristof ✔ @NickKristof
Watching Tim Kaine, I’m struck that he’s great at skewering Trump while remaining genial. Destroying rivals pleasantly is a political art.
Technocrat
@Matt McIrvin:
Same theme as Obama and Hillary, I suspect. The explosion of anti-semitism would be breathtaking. We’re already doing (((this shit))).
Felonius Monk
@Quinerly: And we are glad you are here, if I may be so presumptuous to speak for my fellow Juicers.
MattF
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Also, her nomination raised questions about McCain.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
any Virginians in the House? What do you think of Tom Periello? I remember he was a blog favorite back in ’06. Also, anybody know the context of Obama feeling like he owes Periello something?
J R in WV
@Kwame:
Oh yes! Kaine actually executed these 6 guys! Wait! Wasn’t there a whole judicial system in there between Kaine and those executions? So Kaine didn’t actually DO the execution?
I’m against the death penalty, with perhaps an exception for prisoners killing guards in prison, or that kind of thing. West Virginia hasn’t had the death penalty for many decades… I think “Old Sparky” is now part of a tourist attraction at the no longer in use, pre-civil war prison in Moundsville, which is across the street from the world’s largest earthen burial mound. A far better tourist attraction than the prison.
But if it were properly administered, which it often is not, and used only in rare occasions, which it also is not, I wouldn’t call civilization a monster for a death penalty that was like that. Which it isn’t.
The Supremes need to start migrating death penalties to life in prison sentences nearly all the time, whenever there’s a tiny chance that anything went wrong in the whole criminal justice process, from investigation to sentencing, to appeals. They need to lean heavily on judges and prosecutors, with beyond a doubt logic for all those criminal justice guys who are blind about justice.
Is that what you wanted to talk about, Kwame? No? Darn…
Ruckus
@Matt McIrvin:
It isn’t RtR.
I’d bet we had this guy here a number of years ago. Same stick, different name. The style has gotten a tiny bit more direct, but it is the same. He brings more heat than RtR ever did, it has some logic, twisted for sure but some. He brings up points that are easily debunked but sound reasonable on the surface. IOW he is a shallow “thinker” and prone to jumping on any bandwagon that supports his position.
Mike J
cokane
@Anoniminous: Nice. Wondering when Kasich just ends up going full Charlie Crist… Seriously, the near term future of that party does not look good for guys like him
amk
bo/mo, jb/jb, hc/tk
trifecta. let’s do this.
Keith G
Time to throw some more money in the bowl
::Checking In Box:: Yep there is a note from Barak
::Clicks the Donate Now button::
Hey, if you have not checked this out yet, you owe it to yourself to listen to the podcast “Keeping It 1600”.
Great commentary on the campaign and the conventions.
martian
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: This is where I am. Also, I like the VP as the warm-up for a future presidential nominee, so I wanted to see Perez or Becerra get the nod. I’m warming up to Kaine rapidly, though. I’ve had to remind myself in the last couple of days that I didn’t like the Biden pick to start with and look at how well that worked out. I’m a little bit of a purity pony, I guess.
amk
@Mike J: nutsos gonna be nutsos. hey dave, take a look at your side.
cokane
@Trentrunner: I’d say misogyny is broader but shallower than racism.
BR
@Mike J:
That’s one thing I’ve considered doing to mess with the purity folks — point out even Stein or Bernie believe in economic growth and don’t believe in abolishing corporations, etc. They’re not truly left. Might push them to not vote at all, which would be fine by me.
J R in WV
@Quinerly:
I hear he’s in a band, so maybe he will get Bill to play sax with him on the election tour! Wouldn’t that be cool!!
pat
Of course a lot of the attacks on Palin were misogynistic, but don’t forget:
McCain chose her BECAUSE she was a woman.
The Thin Black Duke
@Ruckus: Garbage In, Garbage Out.
Emma
@shomi: What is it with you? You’re like the boy pulling a girl’s pigtails to get her attention. It’s barely acceptable on an 8 year old. For an adult it’s just annoying and shows a great lack of self-control.
Major Major Major Major
@shomi: Why are you even here? I’m going to pie you.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@D58826: Because the know what they know, even when they don’t know shit.
scav
@Emma: Auto popup ads are auto popup ads, even when housed in meatspace neuro-flesh.
The Thin Black Duke
@shomi: What are you talking about?
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Matt McIrvin: I think its less “I won’t let Trump win Ohio” than “I know Ohio, Trump won’t win.”
Thor Heyerdahl
@Kwame:
My goodness, I can agree with you there. What do you like? Blueberry, apple, cherry, pumpkin, bumbleberry, shoofly, pecan, rhubarb, key lime?…do tell!
Mnemosyne
@Keith G:
I appear to have signed myself up as a volunteer. I don’t remember doing it, but I did have a glass of wine the other night, so who knows?
gwangung
Hm.
Speaking of people who know Kaine well…
Jim, Foolish Literalist
isn’t ‘shomi’ the latest incarnation of Timothy/Spatula? that whole “wrong way Cole” thing started there, didn’t it?
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Hal: Jealous gave a good speech at Bernie’s last rally in DC. I liked how he said how important it was that there be unity.
It’s disappointing to me to hear that he’s apparently rejecting his own unity advice now…
Cheers,
Scott.
Villago Delenda Est
@rikyrah: Oh, so the NC GOP chair is Drumpf’s bitch, is he?
This will be remembered.
amk
@gwangung: that should shut up the noobie troll.
aimai
@cokane: Shallowr than racism? Hardly–its embedded in every second of every child’s life in this country from the moment they are born, and it is entertwined with their first relationships within their own families. Not that racism doesn’t exist within biological and social families too. And not to say that modern American racism is not extremely virulent and violent. But women experience misogyny and sexism not only in every aspect of their lives but frequently in their deaths at the hands of husbands/boyfriends or their own families (as in honor killings). Its not shallow at all.
amk
@rikyrah: typical rethug IGMYGFY.
Villago Delenda Est
@Mike J: The purity ponies can never be satisfied.
Major Major Major Major
@gwangung: Heh. Side note, there’s a reply to that tweet having a sad and saying that Kaine isn’t a progressive, featuring an Oprah gif. The person who posted it says in their profile “unfortunately, born straight” which is definitely the stupidest thing I’ll see all day.
@amk: Something tells me it will just prove that somebody has pictures of her with a goat.
gwangung
@amk: I have doubts of his authenticity, as you might imagine…
Ruckus
@rikyrah:
I get the context here and see that the pin does has significant positive importance. To everyone. But I also believe that political statements have little place in a courtroom. It should be the one place that politics intrude as absolutely little as possible. So in this instance I’m not sure what is the right move. BLM is important, not just to the black people but to everyone. It’s goal is to create a better life, a safer life and one that values life. That’s a concept that we need far more of. So is the judge wrong or right?
Quinerly
@gwangung:
Someone needs to tell that Kwame. He ruined my early morning when I came back to BJ and saw that clusterfuck he caused. Donna was one of his picks.
Matt McIrvin
@Emma: I have to admit, that one thread where Doug was trolling everyone into arguing about the evil of Tim Kaine and voting for Jill Stein was an acceptable target for shomi. But they didn’t even pipe up until it was nearly dead.
Mnemosyne
So Jockey has been doing this new ad campaign called “Show ‘Em What’s Underneath” that I started seeing last week while I was watching TV with my mom. Now the ads are showing up here on B-J and so far they feature:
– a woman firefighter
– a wounded veteran with prostheses
– a white father holding his black child
Yep. Trump is toast. He is out of step with ordinary Americans, the kind of people who buy underpants from Jockey when they go to Target.
SFAW
@pat:
Has the meaning of “misogynistic” changed to “because she was/is a fucking moron and grifter who spews hate” and I missed it? I’ll have to check my latest copy of Webster’s.
scav
@amk: That other delegate didn’t continue to “contribute” exactly to the plane owners specifications, so he pulled out of the Navigating Airplane To Origin partnership. Unity breaking out all over.
amk
@gwangung: at least , its talking point why no donna edwards for veep is taken away.
different-church-lady
@amk:
Should.
Will.
Two different things.
Barb2
@Kwame:
Tiny violin.
Are you even an American? Are you even in this country?
Nope & nope.
D58826
Even Mrs. Greenspan seems to like the Kaine choice.
I just wonder if the Bernie purity parade hadn’t occurred if the progressives would be so upset at the Kaine choice. And speaking of Bernie has he said anything yet? His campaign manager is demanding an investigation into the leaked e-mails. They can’t let go of a grudge.
Saws one tweet that said Kaine is a Pope Francis style catholic.
debbie
@SFAW:
Don’t forget about her insistence that true feminists could only be pro-life.
Matt McIrvin
@SFAW: I was thinking more of the ones calling her a slut and a whore and a walking pair of tits. Even if you suspect she was primarily picked for her looks, rhetoric that basically amounts to telling attractive women to stay out of politics does collateral damage.
SFAW
@shomi:
You know, you would save yourself, and us, a lot of time if you just created a Word file that says “All you Front Pagers FUCKING SUCK! YOU SUCK SO BAD! AND YOU FUCKING SUCK!!!” And your comments would lose no inherent value.
@The Thin Black Duke:
See my comment. He’s been pulling that shit for a while.
cokane
@aimai: I think it’s weird to bring up things like “honor killings” when talking about misogyny in the US — the point of the original post. Please read before commenting. Misogyny is shallower imo because even the most strident pro-patriarchy guys have women in their lives. Plenty of racists literally do not interact with black or brown people unless forced to.
D58826
MSNBC is talking about Philly soft pretzels. FSM I miss my soft pretzels. (and cheese steaks of course).
Emma
@Matt McIrvin: Oh ok. You’re in gracious mode today. I’m not. RL just kicked my tail a bit and I’m not in the mood for foolishness.
different-church-lady
@D58826:
The ugly parts of the Bernie phenomenon were a symptom, not a cause.
Quinerly
@D58826:
Both Jesuit trained! One considered being a Jesuit. One actually is a Jesuit.❤
SFAW
@Matt McIrvin:
Matt, I was responding to “pat”, not you. As far as your comment above: I’ve never seen anyone on this blog call her any of those terms. A grifter, a moron, sure; someone who tries to play the “woman who thinks she’s sexy and hot and sends starbursts to Rich Lowry.” — probably something similar. But I don’t think any of those is necessarily misogynistic, not even the last one — which describes behavior, and isn’t objectifying her.
ThresherK (GPad)
@pat:…and young and starbursty.
If they could have put an Olympia Snowe (whose rep as “moderate” usually disappears when her vote matters) as Vpnom in 08…
different-church-lady
@cokane:
One might point out that for many of those men, they have women in their lives in ways attitudinally similar to the way racists had blacks in their lives 200 years ago.
Mike G
It’s funny how so much of the self-proclaimed “sober-minded, nonpartisan, objective” reporting ends up in the furrow of supporting the status quo and respecting policies proportional to the political clout of their backers.
pat
@SFAW:
Don’t overlook the second sentence in my post about Palin, that she was chosen because she was a woman.
And several others upthread were talking about the misogyny.
eta: And the Rich Lowry starbursts comment was directly referring to her feminine “endowments.”
amk
@Quinerly:
which one?
Honus
@Schlemazel Khan: exactly. All those anti-Kaine talking points were researched and cued up for the VP announcement.
Frankensteinbeck
@cokane:
I think they have different flavors, and words like ‘deep’ are hard to define in relation. My observation is that racists are scared of black men, and misogynists think women are natural victims. Thus, Obama got fanatical obstruction, and Hillary gets open insults and mainstreamed calls to jail her. There is overlap, of course. But what Hillary faces and will face is more like GamerGate than the Tea Party movement.
rikyrah
☺Propane Jane
My hot take on Hills picking Tim Kaine as her running mate is I feel exactly how I felt when Barack chose Joe Biden. Let’s roll.- –
SFAW
@D58826:
Seek immediate psychiatric help.
Cheese Wiz? FSM spare me
cokane
@different-church-lady: Seems like an ignorant comparison. Even if you’re trying to make the wife/partner = slave comp, which is just downright whitewashing what slavery was like, almost every man has mothers, sisters, cousins, daughters etc that they are close to and care about. At the extreme end of racism we have calls for racially purging or at least hardcore segregating the US.
SFAW
@rikyrah:
But Mrs. Greenspan said you wouldn’t/shouldn’t be happy! Don’t you think you should reconsider?
Ruckus
@J R in WV:
I’m on the no death penalty side here, how can you be sure that the trial as actually fair? You really can’t. We don’t like cops executing people, why should we do the same? The death penalty makes murderers of all of us and I find that unacceptable. The argument that it is legally sanctioned makes it not murder is just cover to me. It is not just punishment, it is retribution and that’s not a business we as a nation should be in. It isn’t necessary, and it is just wrong.
ThresherK (GPad)
@Mnemosyne: The vet with prosthetic is on the cover of Jockey’s latest mailer. I’d say “don’t ask me how I know” but that’s pointless. Really digging the normalizing imagery.
It’s the future, and I’m old enough to remember when Sears catalogue shirt models all looked like they lived in my whitebread, suburban neighborhood.
amk
Guess with today’s veep announcement, we have seen last of the trolls?
Of course, srv will always be here because he is an idjit.
Quinerly
@J R in WV:
Hadn’t heard about the band! I’m so excited about this pick! Let’s get some band links up. Anything has got to be better than that shit GE Smith band at the RNC. And, yes, I know who GE Smith is.
different-church-lady
@cokane: OK, I went too far out on that limb.
D58826
@SFAW: cheez wiz? not on a real cheese steak.
Ruckus
@The Thin Black Duke:
I like yours better. Shorter.
different-church-lady
@Quinerly: In my fantasy convention, an endless stream of celebrities comes out and each speaks for about 30 seconds before giving way to the next. “Hey, Trump, you think you know TV and star power? We’ll show you TV and star power.”
gogol's wife
@rikyrah:
Me too! He’s a great speaker! I don’t think he was even using a teleprompter. But even if he was, he made it look as if he wasn’t. I like his face. And she seems to really be happy with him, which is important.
Major Major Major Major
@amk: We seem to have more trolls now. Look around.
Technocrat
@SFAW:
link
link
Those are just the prominent figures, google produces a bunch of hits on “harpy”, “bimbo”, etc. I suspect many of us went with the “Caribou Barbie” meme.
gogol's wife
@different-church-lady:
I hope they get Lady Gaga.
And of course Miranda, although I guess he’s on vacation.
scav
@Frankensteinbeck: O, I don’t quite think congress is going to drop all obstruction and resort to nothing more than calling President Clinton in tweets from the floor while passing bipartisan bills.
I’m also not quite seeing how having women in their lives, constantly to, under or within the reach of hands, feet or other parts. makes the whole situation less of problem. They’re clearly not learning women are people from life-long experience.
Quinerly
Jonathan Capehart gives good Kaine commentary!
? Martin
@Quinerly: Biden is also Jesuit trained. I expect Kaine to be a lot like Biden.
gogol's wife
@? Martin:
He has a similar self-confident, intelligent, but unpretentious speaking style.
ThresherK (GPad)
@Quinerly: Leave GE Smith alone. He’s a family man.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Good thing no Hispanic voters speak English or stuff like this might get around.
(She’s more a Trumpeter than a conservative, isn’t she? the one Cecilyh Strong played on SNL and people said it was just so meeeaan!)
Howard Beale IV
@amk: He stole that from the late Dr. Robert Schuller, of the Crystal Cathedral. One of the sane non-judgmental televangelists of the 1980s.
Mnemosyne
@cokane:
I reeeeeeaaallllyyyy don’t want to get into a round of Oppression Olympics today on a day when both Clinton and Kaine gave great speeches about unity, but you have heard of domestic violence, yes? There are plenty of men who think the women in their lives exist only to serve them, and become enraged when they don’t.
It’s both/and. Someone yesterday linked to a really interesting article about the misogyny of Trump’s attitude where he disparages his wife and treats his daughter like an extension of himself (with a little admixture of creepy sexualizing).
And as I think most of the Black women here can tell you, it really sucks to be on the receiving end of both sexism and racism, and it’s not always easy to tell where one leaves off and the other one begins.
Truegster
Everyone take note of how Kwame doesn’t even care or mention anything about the injustice happening in Austin Texas right now.
Completely silent, huh Kwame?
Kwame, I take your current silence about the recent deaths and injustice in my neighborhood as tacit agreement, you fascist, racist bigot and do not care one bit what a loser like you has to say in response.
Argument over, Kwame, I won because I pointed out your indifference and silence on a topic that you should have spoken out about, on which I courageously have.
David ?▶️Hillary/Harley Quinn 2016▶️? Koch
D58826
I think Kaine comes across as the guy you Really want to have a beer with.
Technocrat
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Man, that is just a breathtakingly stupid response. Shore up the racist base more, and keep losing places like RedState.
Felonius Monk
@SFAW:
YES. Wiz wit. It’s the only way to roll at Pat’s.
Quinerly
@ThresherK (GPad):
Loved him when he was with Dylan. I do have to question his values now that he has become the house band for the RNC two cycles. Not my kind of “family.”? Has Dylan weighed in?❤
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Racists gotta racist. They really can’t help themselves, which is why they’ll lose and keep doubling down.
Frankensteinbeck
@scav:
There is overlap, but for all that obstruction is a Republican thing, what Obama faced was unprecedented, and for all the insults Obama faced, there has never been a RNC like this one. While the Republican Congress will be difficult, I don’t expect the absolute, desperate, no-compromise-must-block-everything-must-repeal-everything frenzy.
? Martin
@gogol’s wife: Biden is our well of compassion. I see that in Kaine as well. And I think Kaine actually has a very similar policy attitude as Obama. That’ll be distressing to many liberals who believe that progressive policies should be pushed faster, but they seem to have an attitude of drawing the public to those positions before implementing them. I respect that approach as the idea is to bring enough of the public on board to prevent it from being used as a (successful) wedge issue. It’s slower than I want, but I think it’s more durable over time. He (like Obama) also has a clear understanding that the executive branch must self-constrain in ways that the legislature should not. Anyone who has been a boss understands that – you have an obligation to the existing rules while you try to change them – but you can’t ignore the existing rules. That’s tough, and to the purity ponies, they look like sellouts, but that behavior just reflects earlier failures. The place to push your ideology tends to be in the legislature (and in the states moreso). The executive necessarily needs to be late to arrive, so we put a bit too much of our ideological focus in the wrong place. We should focus on Congress more than we do.
Fair Economist
@p.a.:
Kind of off too, since Franco was much worse than Mussolini in terms of how many citizens he killed and how brutally he suppressed civil society.
different-church-lady
@Mnemosyne:
That’s what I was trying to say in my own way before that branch snapped off from under me…
scav
@Frankensteinbeck: I think that more depends on the amount of thwacking they get in the election booths, impacting especially tea-party members (who wouldn’t even get in line for “main-stream” republican issues). There are several waves of intractable going on, and which specific flavor of necessarily unfit D is president won’t make much difference to a team who’s only go-to tool is screaming and shutting down things for attention, especially one that can be highjacked by subsets of their own “team” (and don’t seem to have a leadership bench that can get all the toddlers to sit down even for snacktime).
Quinerly
@amk:
Pope Frankie, the hippie pontiff! That’s what I call him. And no, I’m not Catholic. I consider myself more of the Druid persuasion. But I do dig me some Pope Frankie when he’s stirring shit up. On a serious note, I have strong respect for the Jesuits. A dear friend for many years during and after law school was the Jesuit priest counselor who had an office in Saint Louis University School of Law (Jesuit school). Learned a lot from him over beers at Happy Hour. I would do anything to keep from studying like drinking with progressive priests…..but I digress.
gogol's wife
@Quinerly:
I can’t tell you how many guys I know who spent much of their youth drinking (and eating!) with Jesuits.
catclub
@Baud:
Germany voted for Hitler when unemployment was 47%. It is not quite that hellscapish here and now.
gogol's wife
@Technocrat:
Yeah, heaven forbid they should have to learn a couple of words in another language — that is spoken by our closest neighbors in the hemisphere.
Quinerly
@gogol’s wife:
I’m of the girl persuasion. But we did form a solid friendship over discussions about music, philosophy, religion, and politics. My very Catholic and perpetually guilt ridden boyfriend was very jealous.?
catclub
@Matt McIrvin:
Sarah Palin was unqualfied for VP, but she was more qualified to be President than Trump is. Shows what being rich, white, male, and middle aged can get you.
Quinerly
@? Martin:
Wonderful post at #396. Thank you.
Mnemosyne
@gogol’s wife:
Jesuits are great, and tend to be much more pragmatic than a lot of the other orders. I’ve touted a local Jesuit here in Los Angeles, Fr. Greg Boyle, who founded Homeboy Industries to help local gang members leave that life and get the skills they need to get jobs. Their motto is “Jobs, Not Jails.”
They’ve really ramped up their commercial bakery business and now the Giant Evil Corporation uses their breads in all of its So Cal employee cafeterias.
gogol's wife
@Mnemosyne:
I think I read about that — was it in People?
catclub
@Frankensteinbeck: I still have a dual
VCR/DVD player. Although I cannot remember the last time I used the VCR side.
Cat48
Well, Tim Kaine made me cry today. Nothing like a compassionate civil rights attorney combined with Jesuit teachings. Hillz did really good this time!
Quinerly
@Cat48:
I’m walking on cloud nine (to my neighborhood bar for music). I loved that she looked so happy. It had to be a weight lifted off her shoulders.
Davis X. Machina
@gogol’s wife: Add another one to the list. Both sides of the desk, too — as student and teacher.
The freshman book list I was handed as a 9th grader began with John Hershey’s Hiroshima and Michael Harrington’s The Other America. It’s been all more or less downhill from there.
FlipYrWhig
I’m already offended by the NEXT Clinton decision that totally stabs progressives in the back under the bus!
catclub
Donald Trump is a gold bug. hoocoodanode!
WaterGirl
@Villago Delenda Est: I still think we’ve seen him before under a different nym, but I haven’t been able to put my finger on which one it is.
WaterGirl
@hovercraft: Shorter:
Andrea Mitchell is very concerned.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Tom is a good and decent man, a progressive, very much like Kaine in many respects. His US House district included UVA/Charlottesville.
I’m no expert, but I think he might have trouble in a state-wide race, but it really depends on how big the wave is in November and how that carries through in 2017.
Blue Virginia has much more.
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
Matt McIrvin
@catclub:
It is, however, possible that we are more inherently fascist than Germans in the 1930s.
Cat48
@Quinerly:
Hillary did look very happy and I was happy for her too. That makes me emotional too sometimes. The unnecessary rudeness and meanness that is sometimes thrown at her, especially about Iraq, in her own party. She deserves some good.luck & happiness. I’m generous today. :)
Emma
@catclub:
Per Wikipedia: As of April 2016, Fort Knox holdings are 4,582 metric tons (147.3 million oz. troy). At the rate of $1,226.60 an ounce it is worth about $180 billion.
Matt McIrvin
@Mnemosyne:
Not only that, the Southern anti-black version of racism was historically a lot like this too: Southern whites didn’t want black people to go away (and in fact were probably more comfortable around them than Northern whites); they wanted them subservient. It didn’t make it any less virulent.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Emma: A pittance.
New York Federal Reserve Gold Vault:
185208333 troy oz x $1324/oz = $245.2B
Of course, there’s the little problem that that gold doesn’t belong to the US, but I’m sure Donnie would see nothing wrong with just taking it – after all he wants to take Iraq’s oil…
:-/
Cheers,
Scott.
Matt McIrvin
Not having enough gold is no problem: if we’re establishing a gold standard we can set the price. Just peg the dollar to gold at $100,000 an ounce!
Then our economy will be fixed because all our money will have INHERENT VALUE that we made up.
cokane
@Mnemosyne: What we really have here is just a failure to appreciate what racists think. Again, extreme racists can go so far as to advocate elimination. It’s an ideology that can shape an entire political view, shaping things like foreign policy for example. At the extreme end of misogyny is wanting to take away rights like voting, working, owning property. But it’s not about it one being “worse” than the other. As my OP said, misogyny is way more widely held but its adherents cant reach the depths of the worst racists.
Cleos
@Kathleen: NPR has become a joke, and not a funny one.
I can’t wait till they contact me during the next of their seemingly endless money begs.
J R in WV
@different-church-lady:
We have a neighbor who, when she calls us on the phone, always starts out withr “This is Johnny Estep’s wife.” instead of saying “Hi, this is Rebecca…” She is the main wage earner and supplier of health insurance, too. I’ll bet she waits on Johnny like he was king of the world!
Speaking of ownership of wives and such.
Cleos
@bystander:
The TV affiliates are consistently mentioning Kaine’s Kansas City connections. The KC paper is busy cheerleading for the efforts of the City Council and salivating contractors to tear down our airport, so it has no time for such trivial distractions.
Well, that and running insulting cartoons about Hillary Clinton at least once a week.
PurpleGirl
@Tokyokie: I know the thread is dead but I took a rather longish nap. Anyway…. I actually knew a Gay Puerto Rican woman who converted to Judahism. She was married to a close friend of mine who was Quaker. While they weren’t married in the care of the meeting (it was still illegal at the time), the meeting allowed them to hold a ceremony in the 15th Street Meeting House. They even had a ketuba in the Jewish tradition. While I think you tried to find a combination that was rare, with the BJ commentariat you just can’t predict anything.