Behind every instant Internet meme is an actual individual who sometimes turns out to be a standup human being. https://t.co/g7GKigR3Yq
— Rob Pegoraro (@robpegoraro) July 26, 2016
From the Yahoo article:
…Even in this sea of sadness, Sean Kehren, a 22-year-old Sanders delegate from Minnesota, stood out. For one, he was wearing a Peter Pan-style hat (which represents a “Robin Hood tax” on Wall Street). His expression of pure anguish as Sanders spoke earned him the title of “breakout star” among all the crying Sanders delegates…
Kehren, however, told Yahoo News that he is not a Bernie-or-buster. He said he was crying in part because he found it very noble that Sanders was encouraging his fans to back Clinton for the good of the nation after such a hard-fought and idealistic campaign. (Kehren also wept earlier Monday when Sanders was loudly booed by his delegates for telling them to get behind Clinton.)
“I was getting emotional over the fact that he was doing his best to unify the party and I think that’s such a noble cause,” Kehren said. “Bernie has led a revolution, he’s led a movement, and now that movement has to get behind the party.”…
Kehren said he’s not a privileged “Bernie Bro” who hates Clinton, as some on social media have branded him. He said he was raised by a struggling single mom and will vote for Clinton in the election. “She’s done her best to make deals with Bernie and to embrace his side, and I have to giver her credit for that,” he said of Clinton…
Good for Mr. Kehren. As others have pointed out, a big part of the problem with Sanders delegates is that the experienced political people overwhelmingly chose to work for Clinton’s campaign. By default — as much as inclination — the Sandernistas knew less about what acting as a delegate would mean, from paying their own expenses to accepting that the convention rules, however labyrinthine or ‘illogical’, would have to be followed even if one’s candidate didn’t win the ballots.
Fundamental problem w DNC: Clinton delegates a good representation of her supporters, Bernie delegates aren’t, crazier than Sanders voters
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) July 26, 2016
@jimb345 @DanaHoule I saw the selection process of both the HRC folks and BS folks at our district convention, and this was predictable.
— Mike Caulfield (@holden) July 25, 2016
@jimb345 @DanaHoule BS folks weren't doing speeches as resumes — they were proving who hated Hillary most. Being new to system was *plus*.
— Mike Caulfield (@holden) July 25, 2016
Trentrunner
I just watched CNN–both panels–seriously consider for 15-20 minutes whether Bill might have missed an opportunity by not directly bringing up Monica.*
Shoot them all. Metaphorically, of course.
*Initiated by David Axelrod, the “adult” on the panel.
divF
@Trentrunner: This is the most personal statement he could have possibly made. He didn’t need to bring up Monica – the whole world knows about it, and it would served only to publicly shame him. Which is, of course, the reason the panelists wanted him to do it.
Bastards.
WarMunchkin
Cable news can go jump in a lake. I didn’t even realize Bill went long, I was completely spellbound, and by the end, it seemed like no time had passed at all.
Regarding the last Caulfield tweets, I wish there were some middle ground there. I don’t want delegates to all be experienced people, I think that can be its own groupthink just as surely as the Sanders people who formed their hillary hating BDN is its own groupthink. I can’t come up with a better proposal though. A lottery with some minimal vetting maybe?
geg6
@Trentrunner:
Fucking Axelrod has really gone down the goddam rabbit hole. WTF????
This is why I watch this shit on CSPAN.
Major Major Major Major
Man Entirely Different Misogynist Online Than In Real Life
Bruuuuce
There is a statistic floating around the net (I *think* it’s from Five Thirty-Eight or PEW, since my FB friends have been citing those two extensively) that 90% of Bernie voters will be voting for Hillary. Given that, I’m surprised there weren’t more stories like this one (or maybe not, since the media would naturally want the more controversial, more confrontational Bernie or Busters front and center). With some work and a bit of luck, those 90% will grow into full-fledged Dems, working for the downtickets and local races, solidifying support where the Dems need it.
guachi
I have a random question that has nothing to do with 2016.
The margin of victory (well, loss) in Florida in 2000 was -.01%. Gore won the popular vote by .52%. So the Florida was -.53% worse than the national margin of victory for the Democrats.
Going back to 1984 (because I just haven’t looked farther than that) this is the best the Democrats have done compared to the national margin of victory in any of those elections.
Any idea why that might be?
Also, Ohio 2004 was the only time the Democrats have outperformed their national numbers in that time frame. Kerry may have lost, but he did a mighty fine job given his only real path to victory.
Bobby D
Earlier today, I heard the Bernie delegates had walked out, chanting something about “this is what democracy looks like”, and the reporter covering the story said “they may go back inside later”.
At which point I’m thinking: WTF? You BernieChildren walked out to cause trouble and have done nothing but cause problems since you arrived. If I am controlling security at that event, you sure as HELL ain’t coming back in. Strip their credential and send the rude little shitheels back home.
Trentrunner
@Bruuuuce: 538 actually fleshed that out, and the actual number is 60% when 3rd parties and not voting are included as options. (The 90% figure is when you say Clinton vs. Trump is the ONLY option, no 3rd party, and you must vote.)
So we have some work to do. But I also firmly believe that a good portion of the Berniebros were NEVER going to vote for the Democrat, especially the Harridan.
Trentrunner
@Bobby D: BernieBabies. :)
John Cole
This guy also saved a woman’s life, dragging her out of a burning car.
SiubhanDuinne
@WarMunchkin:
For Bill, he didn’t :-)
lamh36
Well, I’m officially done Black-splaining for the night and the remainder of this election season and likely for the entirety of the new Clinton administration.
Can’t wait to hear President Obama and VP Biden speak tomorrow.
Anne Laurie
@WarMunchkin:
In an ideal world — well, I suspect, most of the time — the older, more experienced people search out/welcome new recruits to take over emptied slots, and help train them in the ways of the organization. That’s how volunteer organizations always work; if you’re doing a demanding, time-intensive task just out of love & principles, there’s a steady rotation as the ‘top’ people can no longer fill those roles (their paid jobs demand more time, they move away, they have kids, they just get burned out). In the best circumstances, there are enough newbies to to step up, and they’ve worked with the team long enough to have an idea of where all the gears & levers are. In real life, sadly, since there’s always more work than workers, the “board members” can get overwhelmed, or cliquish, or just tired… and it’s sometimes touch & go as to whether new people will show up with the enthusiasm & the patience to take over the scutwork before the whole organization crashes. Primates being primates, running the local Democratic precinct is not all that different from running a dog obedience club, or putting on an sf/fantasy convention, or publishing a ‘zine… every group has to keep recruiting or wither & die. But the turnover process is very seldom as smooth as all parties would wish!
? Martin
I’d say this is true. I think this is what Al Giordano was referencing. Hillary’s delegates look to a large degree to be the folks that have been carrying water for Democrats for years – they’re the fucking marines. Bernies delegates are more likely to either be the old hippies that generally reject the establishment the moment they manage to turn it into the establishment or the new activists that haven’t yet had enough doors slammed in their face to get it. That’s generally true on social media as well, in my experience. That’s why the polls suggest a different behavior from Bernie’s supporters than you can see from the behavior of their representatives.
cckids
@Trentrunner: The panel currently on MSNBC (Chrises Matthews & Hayes, Michael Steele, Joy Reid and Howard Fineman), are talking about Bill’s speech & others with “humanizing” anecdotes about Hillary. Matthews said “but doesn’t EVERY elected official have those kinds of stories? The rest all are like “NO, no not really.” Steele especially said “there’s a huge difference between how they treat their constituents and their staff, but not to Hillary.”
Possibly the window is moving.
Mnemosyne
I am still a little annoyed at the sole remaining Bernie-or-Buster on my FB feed (who has probably blocked me now that I told her that Benghazi wasn’t Hillary’s fault), so I’m happy to see that others of his supporters are (naturally) sad that their guy lost but determined to move forward.
Howard Dean was on that stage tonight so, trust me, I know where you kids are coming from.
Bruuuuce
@Trentrunner: Thanks for the cite. And sad to see so many going for the hopeless, I’m principled despite knowing it dooms the country votes,
Adam L Silverman
@cckids: Steele was really good last night and tonight given his personal political preferences.
sigaba
I’m not sure he could have said anything about Monica, et al, without it either becoming about him and leading people down a completely different rabbit hole about wether or not the speech was some sort of mea culpa to the Democratic party or America. Something I’m not sure we ever really got, or rather he may give regularly, but no number of times will ever be enough.
Also it would have totally squelched any conversation about anything else he said in the speech. Mentioning his indiscretions, which are ultimately his issue and don’t really go to Hillary, would have become the “news.”
Maybe Hillary will talk about it. She’s the appropriate person at this juncture to bring it up.
Calming Influence
I was very much heartened by the seeming change in mood todayand tonight. I have a feeling that last night and early this morning a lot of the more experienced/older delegates acted as informal whips and had some quiet one on one time with the young Bernie supporters. Giving them that awkward “No, nobody ever gets a glittery pony in politics, now get on that fucking mule!” talk…
Mnemosyne
@WarMunchkin:
Maybe a requirement that they sign some kind of contract acknowledging that they’ve had X, Y and Z explained to them before they agreed to become a delegate?
divF
@Anne Laurie:
QFT. Madame retired a few months ago, and people are coming round to get her to serve in volunteer administrative positions for her various avocations. And she is doing so, for precisely the reasons you say – its her turn to step up to the plate. When I finally hang it up, I expect to do the same.
ETA: There are actually people (heaven knows why) who voluntarily keep the threads rolling as FP’ers on your Top 10000 blogs. And we are grateful.
Bruuuuce
@shomi: There were somewhere around or over ten million of those “shitheads” who voted for Bernie in the primaries. That’s a not inconsequential number, if we assume it’s proportional in the same way we assume HRC’s thirteen or fourteen million votes will scale in the general. 60% of that is a LOT of votes. THAT’s why people are concerned about Bernie voters (not all of whom are my way or the highway tatrumers).
Adam L Silverman
@sigaba: The news media just want him to have do the public shaming again for their benefit and amusement. That’s it.
Mike E
@Adam L Silverman: He’s embracing his Inner Blue Muppet, and I think that’s awesome!
Adam L Silverman
@Mike E: That was such a great spoof.
Emma
@sigaba:
If my experience with couples who have reconciled after a major screwup is anything to go by, the answer is hell, no! They have thrashed it out, talked and screamed until they’re hoarse, cried until their eyes are redder than an emergency light. They’ve dealt with it. No good earthly reason to bring it back, because it would start the cycle all over again.
Anoniminous
Why Clinton voters say they won’t support Obama
Just the SOS, cycled and recycled.
Bruuuuce
@Mike E:
Is that Cookie Monster or SU-PER GROVER? :-)
Trentrunner
@Adam L Silverman: As a former party chair, Steele knows the difference between a well-run convention and a 4-day shitshow.
Lizzy L
@sigaba: NO NO NO NO NO NO NO. It was none of our business then, and it’s none of our business now. Besides, can you imagine what Trump would do if either Hillary or Bill were to open that door? Forget it. It’s irrelevant. It’s done.
Anoniminous
@Anoniminous:
(FYWP won’t let me edit my comment)
And, BTW, Women were 53% of all voters and they went for Obama 56% to 43% for McCain.
Mike in NC
Fuck all of the Bernistas
Wag
@Calming Influence:
Get behind the mule.
seaboogie
@sigaba: Why on earth would anyone talk about Monica – except possibly Monica herself?
sigaba
@Lizzy L:
I don’t care myself, I think they’re both totally boss. But maybe she’d talk about it as a way of filling out the life story or something, as some sort of political angle to people who think she’s too mercenary. On the other hand it’d probably have the same problem where it’d be the only thing people talked about.
Scotian
John King at CNN made the comment that WJC didn’t seem to get that Trump is not the GOP of old where smaller government is concerned when he made the point about HRC being a changemaker they feared and therefore made a cartoon version of to run against. The problem I have with this point, and the complete FAILURE of anyone else on the panel to recognize it, is that WJC was explaining why the GOP had spent the last quarter century demonizing HRC, long, Long, LONG before there was ever any possible belief Trump would ever run, let alone actually be the GOP nominee she would be competing against. What WJC was doing was making clear why this cartoon image was constructed, why they/GOP have spent so much time, money and energy in making the public see HRC this way, and why it is not only so wrong, but also why they so feared her to begin with!
I mean really, the GOP ever since Reagan have been making the argument that government is always the problem and never a solution, well HRC has time, Time, and TIME again proved that wrong throughout her life, as WJC so eloquently described in such a tight package! She did so both as a private citizen and as a public servant, and if anything shows that she is is the TRUE agent of change Americans in trouble are so badly needing all of this does! THAT is why the GOP feared and still fear her so, why this cartoon image exists, and why what John King did was so incredibly missing the main point, and why it so irks me that the rest of the group ALSO appeared to totally miss this too!
ARGHHH!
I really miss honest media and real journalism and intelligent analysis on CNN domestic, we lucky Canucks get to share CNN domestic instead of CNN International as our basic cable version (oh frajbulous joy), it used to exist in the early years, but the last couple of decades….GRRRRR..
hovercraft
@Trentrunner:
Yes dear Ax was a real ass, his next question about the night was about the video with the glass shattering, he thought it might be too explicit about her being the first woman president. Van Jones pushed back saying that yes the ’08 campaign never talked about it but there were plenty of coded and not so coded references ti race over the last 8 years so it’s better to just take it head on. Ax wondered if being explicit would turn people off. While comments like Madeline Albright’s special place in hell, are alienating, I don’t think any one who’s going to vote for her will change their mind because she acknowledges her status as first.
bluehill
@Adam L Silverman: This. There’s no other purpose. If there was, someone would have explained how such an acknowledgement would have benefited Hillary’s campaign. This is also a problem that I have with some of the tweets by media professionals. It’s too much snark, trying to be funny or cool and too little analysis or opinion. LIke this for instance:
Yoni Appelbaum @YAppelbaum 2h2 hours ago
Hillary “has never been satisfied,” says Bill. Was that a Hamilton reference?
You’re not a comedian, Yoni. I’ll wait to see what Colbert has to say.
Keith P.
@shomi: It’s better to let them get whatever is in their system out and welcome them back into the fold with open arms when they are ready. If they are never ready and go to Trump, then sure, fuck ’em. But I’m OK with them getting a bit rowdy early in a convention if they sign on for the cause by the end.
Kropadope
@Bruuuuce: I think they’re referencing the blue muppet that played Michael Steele on the Colbert Report.
Omnes Omnibus
@lamh36: I am sorry that you felt like you were Blacksplaining, rather than talking with us.
NotMax
Bernie who?
Have to admit that Bill worked better than any medication. Put me to sleep less than 10 minutes in and just woke up.
Omnes Omnibus
@sigaba: Why the fuck would anyone bring it up? It had nothing to do with Bill’s governance, and it has less than fuck all to do with Hillary ‘s candidacy.
amk
@sigaba: No need for him or her to talk about it. Fuck the media.
hitchhiker
I like Axelrod’s podcast b/c he talks with people I normally wouldn’t hear, but for MONTHS now whenever he talks about this election he’s asked his guest what-oh-what is HRC going to do about her massive unlikeability problem.
Always in the most eeyore voice ever.
The clear message is that He, David Axelrod, doesn’t like HRC & what’s more, He, David Axelrod, is certain that his preferences represent most people.
Yo, David? I like her a lot.
Anoniminous
Had forgotten how much I liked to listen to Fauré at the end of the day.
Bruuuuce
@Kropadope: Ah. Yes. Not the first blue Muppet that comes to some of our minds (even though the kids are now late-teens and Colbert was much more recent than Sesame Street on our TV). Thanks
Mnemosyne
Though I have to say, the Peter Pan hats were a tactical mistake. If you have to constantly explain, “No, they’re Robin Hood hats,” your message is not working.
cckids
@Adam L Silverman: Steele is like a different person than the one who was the head of the RNC. Even when he’s carrying water for the Repubs, he’s more serious, yet with a better sense of humor; just comes across as smarter than he did then. Maybe he was giving his bosses what they wanted, but he often came across like a clown back then.
Omnes Omnibus
@seaboogie: Monica has become an accomplished woman in her early 40s who is unable to escape something she did as a 23 y/o. Let;s give her a fucking break.
Adam L Silverman
@bluehill: And it also completely ignores that Monica Lewinski also had her life destroyed over what happened. She was betrayed by someone she thought was a friend because the friend had an axe to grind. She became a tool for the media to put eyeballs on advertising and for partisans to cut pounds of flesh. She was sold in a thousand pieces by people with no right to do so for their own profit and no thought or regard or care that there was a person being publicly flayed, defenestrated, and eviscerated all for other’s purposes and profits – reputational, political, and financial.
theguardian.com/technology/2016/apr/16/monica-lewinsky-shame-sticks-like-tar-jon-ronson
Adam L Silverman
@NotMax: The narrator on Ancient Aliens does it for me. I hear: “according to ancient astronaut theorists…” and I’m out like a light.
cckids
@sigaba:
Wasn’t his line “She’ll never quit on you”, more or less about the whole Monica situation? I haven’t read all the comments yet, but that’s how it struck me.
karen marie
@sigaba: Why is it even relevant?
Cat48
@AL So, I slept thru tonight, did Bill’s speech go ok? They nominated Hillz & I remember nothing else. Just wondering if you liked Bills speech, help, hurt, or no harm done?
Adam L Silverman
@cckids: He was given the job for appearance reasons. And when he tried to actually do it for real, the chain was yanked taught and his days were numbered. He didn’t understand that he wasn’t in on the joke, he was the butt of the joke. You’d think he’d have learned something from that, but chosen affiliations are often hard to break.
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
And yet Steele was the one who oversaw the wave midterm of 2010, so he must have been doing something right.
sigaba
@karen marie: God grant us the strength to restrict our politics to only the relevant issues.
FlipYrWhig
@Calming Influence: It’d be nice to think so, but I think the explanation was that the craziest Bernie people walked out after the roll call, so they weren’t around to raise a ruckus during the speakers.
NotMax
@efgoldman
And tights can too often be unflattering.
Frankensteinbeck
@Mnemosyne:
Not really. The thing about what the Republicans did right in 2010 is that they didn’t have to do anything but not totally, categorically fuck up. I remember going into the midterm, the numbers people were going ‘the election patterns are clear. Democrats will get crushed. They hold both houses of congress and the presidency, and have enacted major legislation. There will be a huge backlash.’ And damned if it didn’t turn out just that way.
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: I’m not arguing that he isn’t competent or doesn’t know how to do his job. I think he’s good on both. What I don’t think is that’s why he was made RNC Chair.
Adam L Silverman
What’s with all the MSNBC panel hate on baking cookies? I bake cookies all the time! You got a problem with that, I’ll see you out back behind the blog!
Omnes Omnibus
@efgoldman:
I was up in the air for a while, but I came down where you did. This time, I really didn’t see anyone who matched HRC.
patrick II
@Trentrunner:
I think its a good idea as soon they also suggest that Trump talks about this being his third marriage, his two divorces, numerous affairs, and the allegations of pedophilia.
amk
dems have 3 presidents in their convention.
rethugs had zero presidential candidates, let alone presidents, in their convention.
msm: dems in disarray.
FlipYrWhig
@Cat48: I liked it, it wasn’t scintillating or anything (I tend to find Bill overrated as a speaker) but effective at describing Young Hillary Rodham starting with their rom-com meet-cute. Rachel Maddow had a cow over how the meet-cute part was anti-feminist for confusing reasons, perhaps because he said “girl.” The reaction among pundits was weird.
Adam L Silverman
@efgoldman: In stunning Hi-Def!
FlipYrWhig
@patrick II: Trump really missed an opportunity when he didn’t retell the story of when he complimented his infant daughter’s future tits.
Trentrunner
@amk: They had Dole at their convention, ’96 Republican nominee.
NotMax
@efgoldman
One also could say they weren’t going full Robin Hood, jerkin off in public.
Omnes Omnibus
@FlipYrWhig: Wow, I think Bill is brilliant. He is a Georgetown, Oxford, and Yale educated person who can speak to people of whatever background. That is rare.
FlipYrWhig
@NotMax: oh that’s just the worst. Like all good puns.
Trentrunner
@FlipYrWhig: Rachel may be, according to BJ commentariat, a faux-naif and shill and a corporate whore, but what she is not is inarticulate. She was 100% clear as to why the opening of Clinton’s speech bothered her: She said its opening scenario and language were creepy and stalkery, and its attachment of Hillary to Bill’s rise for their first 20 years was anti-feminist. (Nicole Wallace also found it creepy, as did Dana Bash on CNN.)
LOL, btw, at BJ commenters gettin’ all superior to Rachel Maddow with her fake degrees and corporate whoriness.
FlipYrWhig
@Omnes Omnibus: Eh, I think he noodles too much. I like structure. Same reason I prefer pop to jazz, I think.
hovercraft
@efgoldman:
I think like Michelle he took a lot of the primary campaign personally, but if she can get over it he should be able to as well. I think he is more of an idealist from that campaign, whereas Plouffe was the more pragmatic one, for him she will always be too hawkish.
bluehill
@amk: This is a big problem with the analysis of the convention so far. The media is too focused on finding issues, which is fine as long it’s given some context. The big picture view is that the convention so far has been so much better run than the repub convention. The message is uplifting. The speakers are enthusiastic and all support their nominee. Yet the focus is the 150 BoBer’s that walked out.
Not enough of this
Dan Diamond
@ddiamond
Right now at DNC: The 42nd president of the United States.
This time last week: The general manager of Trump Winery.
WarMunchkin
@amk: My favorite was the crowd cheering all the Democratic presidents at the end montage, starting with FDR. Our party rocks.
amk
Marv @Marv_Vien
This girl wanted to be an astronaut; NASA told her they didn’t accept girls. Tonight we nominate her for President.
Adam L Silverman
@Trentrunner: The degrees are legit. I just think the role she’s paid to play on TV is intended to make it seem like she has this very impressive credential, which it is, but she bemusedly doesn’t get the point of anything within the scope of the discipline covered by that degree.
As for her point, and yours. I understand why she went were she did, and presumably from your explanation why you did as well, in your interpretation. I think it is a misinterpretation, but that doesn’t mean your takeaway is invalid. But your experience is not mine and mine is not yours, so perspectives differ.
Omnes Omnibus
@FlipYrWhig: He can connect with people like you wouldn’t believe. It may not work for you but it works for many.
piratedan
yeah… the punditry just want to watch the world burn it seems, must be good for ratings…
Gee (they ponder)…why didn’t Bill mention his own transgressions or mention Monica… well, dumbasses it was because the speech was about his WIFE, the lady who just garnered the nomination of her fucking party and it wasn’t supposed to be about what a stupid fucking horndog he was…
For Chrissakes, get a FUCKING clue… bad form indeed…. whoever is spinning the narrative in the background for MSNBC needs a well placed kick in the nads (because you can bet your ass it’s a guy) and a pink slip to go find a GOP campaign to help direct their local ratfucking campaign.
FlipYrWhig
@Trentrunner: it’s creepy and stalkerish to talk about how he was smitten by a woman and couldn’t find the courage to talk to her?? I think that makes every novel, play, and movie ever written about straight people for 4000 years creepy and stalkerish. And she was COMPLETELY wrong about the speech making Hillary an appendage of Bill. The whole thing was about how much more Hillary did when they were young, that she was the real superstar, and how marrying him practically took it all away. I thought it was moving.
And, not for nothing, but I think in a degree-off with Rachel Maddow I’ll fare pretty well.
Omnes Omnibus
@Trentrunner: I think that she and you are flat out wrong.
hovercraft
@Mnemosyne:
I don’t think it was anything that he did right, I think the republicans did a great job of convincing many independents who are right leaning, that Obama was not cleaning up their mess fast enough and that the exploding deficit was caused by massive government spending and not by the recession. And the other major factors were a white backlash after being told that the recession was being made worse by Obama giving handouts to his people. There were also a bunch of purity ponies like Ed Schultz telling democrats who already have low turnout in midterms to stay home to punish the dems for not “pushing” single payer or a public option.
NotMax
@FlipYrWhig
Sharpened mortarboards at 20 paces, at dawn.
;)
hovercraft
@Adam L Silverman:
They wanted to have a blah man of their own to show they weren’t racist, and to give them cover. They’ve mastered the art of hey look we have one of you over here so come join us, that was the point of La Palin.
amk
@Trentrunner: I have utter contempt for all teevee pundtwits, degrees or not. They are not experts in anything and are paid to bloviate about subjects about which they were ‘briefed’ for 5 minutes before the show. Fuck’em all.
Cat48
@FlipYrWhig:
Thanks a lot. I’m trying to read threads, but I heard Rachel & Nicole Wallace were like, ewww, so It made me nervous. Thanks again, I felt panicked. :(
seaboogie
@Omnes Omnibus: Agreed.
Omnes Omnibus
@Trentrunner:
Okay, and she is daft.
ETA: As are Wallace and Bash.
hovercraft
@patrick II:
It’s different for Trump, the media has not spent 25 years discussing what he does with his p**is so it’s not something you think of first when you see him after they remind you of it, so he doesn’t have to discuss that. With Bill it’s always his bad behavior, with Trump it’s about his being a rich, brash, business man.
Mnemosyne
@Trentrunner:
Not to pile on, but as a practicing heterosexual woman of 40-(cough) years, I couldn’t disagree more. As the future First Gentleman of the United States, Bill’s job was to tell a story about Hillary that would both humanize her and explain why she’s qualified to be president, and by telling their love story over the course of 40 years, he delivered on both parts of that story.
And, yes, I felt that his love and respect and pride in her accomplishments shone through every word of that speech. It was a personal speech, not a policy speech.
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: Can we go with ‘first gent’? ‘gentleman’ is so loooong.
jenn
@Trentrunner: Well, as a woman and a feminist, I thought it was a great speech. The idea that it was “creepy” and anti-feminist is extraordinarily odd to me. Evidently, mileage varies.
FlipYrWhig
@Trentrunner: BTW what Nicole Wallace had a problem with was, as far as I could tell, that Bill telling a love story was a bad move because it would make everyone think of Monica Lewinsky. That was what she meant by “risky.” That was not what Maddow meant by “controversial” or offending against feminism. They weren’t agreeing, but Wallace isn’t that smart and got confused, AFAICT.
NotMax
@Omnes Omnibus
They apparently missed the part where he was talking about it happening in 1971, fer gosh sakes.
Standard operating procedure for the era.
jenn
@Major Major Major Major: I’m trying to remember what was proposed back in 2008 – wasn’t he joking about retaining FLOTUS by being First Lad or something?
Mnemosyne
@FlipYrWhig:
I think that over the course of the past 25 years or so, the pundits had convinced themselves that the Clintons had some kind of cold marriage-in-name-only and they only stayed together for politics, so they were uncomfortable to see Bill’s very sincere display of emotion for his wife.
Basically, it was the reaction of the grandkids when they figure out that Grandma and Grandpa are still doin’ the nasty. EEEEEEWWWWWWWW!!!!!
Major Major Major Major
@jenn: Might have been ‘first laddie’, that kinda rings a bell.
jenn
I liked this take by Josh at TPM.
FlipYrWhig
@jenn: I think part of the issue is that the detail of Bill being so taken by her that he wanted to reach out and touch her BUT DIDN’T got lost in translation. I know there’s a thing that comes up on the feminist blogosphere about how the “persistent guy” narrative is creepy verging on “rapey” because no means no, but, two things: (1) that seems to be what actually happened; it’s not a fable for children; (2) most of the story was about Hillary flipping the script, making the first move, having a better career, and saying no a lot.
Quinerly
So, is anyone following Trump’s tweets of the night? Do we have a winner for the worst? Blonde 9/11 survivor burned over 80% of her body not hot enough? The small person with the rare dwarfism hands too big to be a real dwarf? Ivanka’s tits are bigger than Chelsea’s? What’s the Comb Over Caligula saying tonight? And unrelated to that freak, has anybody mentioned Meryl Streep? I loved her speech.
seaboogie
About the whole “girl” thing – I think it’s patently ridiculous to try to make hay over this. When Hillary and Bill met they were college students, and at that age I don’t think most of us think our own selves as adult men and women – we are so busy forming ourselves and informing ourselves about the world into which we will emerge more fully as individuals in the years to come.
I didn’t see Bill’s speech because I was working, but I suspect that he was referencing their youth at the time that they met – and probably thought of himself as a boy then too – and was giving a nod to everything that they have both achieved since then, which is pretty epic considering who he is (42) and what he was there to do for Her (45) as the keynote speaker at the DNC. Take a chill pill, y’all – there are still plenty of valid reasons to get your knickers in a twist and get that juice on….
NotMax
Cannot recall whether Hillary spoke at the ’92 convention.
Just looked up the keynote speakers then. What a broad palette.
Zell Miller
Bill Bradley
Barbara Jordan
Dog Dawg Damn
Not one person expected Donald or Melania to talk about his past transgressions. This is just another double standard.
seaboogie
@FlipYrWhig: So kind of like Michelle, that way….she was Barack’s boss.
FlipYrWhig
@Dog Dawg Damn: Seriously. I don’t recall any pundit saying that Melania should have talked about nudie pics because her just being onstage inevitably makes everyone think about them.
Mnemosyne
@seaboogie:
I’m sure it’ll be online, but make sure you make enough time for it — he spoke for almost 45 minutes. Because he’s Bill.
opiejeanne
@Omnes Omnibus: Wallace made me turn off the tv and find something else to do. She usually annoys me and tonight she did not disappoint.
I didn’t stick around for Ms Bash and I’m not familiar with her.
FlipYrWhig
@seaboogie: I could be projecting but I seriously thought Bill was coming across as practically apologizing for having deprived the world of the good works Hillary could have been doing if not for having foolishly decided to marry him.
Quinerly
Meryl wanted a little more than just a pin:
polyorchnid octopunch
@Adam L Silverman: I suspect that Steele is looking at the Trumpification of the Republican party and is basically out.
opiejeanne
@Mnemosyne: Hahahaha! My own kids Do Not Want To Know what we are up to these days.
NotMax
@FlipYrWhig
Or she’s paying penance for her “The Republican party died tonight” comment from last week. Can’t disavow her credentials and risk losing the cushy gigs, now can she?
Quinerly
@Dog Dawg Damn:
Nor her nude pictures or work as an escort (but Nichole Wallace does tell me that Melania is intensely private). Axelrod has disappointed me yet again
NotMax
Whoops That last was a reply to opiejeanne at 120.
Mea culpa.
jenn
@FlipYrWhig: Sure, but it’s also missing the point that there was no “no means no” in the story, because part of the story was him not having the guts to go up and talk to this girl he admired. She’s the one who had the guts to go up to him. The only “no” in the story was to the question of marriage, not of some kind of relationship.
I dunno. Obviously mileage varied, but I wonder about the ratio of genuine response to looking for something to be offended by.
TheMightyTrowel
Today’s my heavy teaching day so I missed all the speeches – I’m loving the BJ post-mortum but where are the rampaging jackals? you’re all being way too collegial!
Quinerly
Looks like my Meryl link isn’t showing up. Meryl wanted more than just a pin: vanityfair.com/style/2016/07/meryl-streep-supports-hillary-clinton
opiejeanne
@Quinerly: Streep was excellent, but I will admit to being prejudiced in her favor.
SectionH
@Quinerly: No, and I’ll have to catch up so I can mock him more.
Ultraviolet Thunder
I figured it out. What was bothering me about HRC’s wardrobe choices of boxy, heavy buttoned up suits in summer.
She’s armored up. They have her in serious body armor for her protection.
Why didn’t I think of that before.
I can go back to sleep now.
Major Major Major Major
@TheMightyTrowel: Fuck you.
Fair Economist
What’s this business about touching people being stalkerish? A touch on the shoulder or arm is a perfectly normal way of getting somebody’s attention, even with strangers. And complaining about using the word “girl” in a boy meets girl story is just bizarre.
seaboogie
@Mnemosyne: I’ll be sure to check it out when I can find it posted, and have no qualms about running time – that’s just everyone hewing to old tropes. On the PLUS side, I am off work tomorrow when Biden and Obama speak – so I’ll have a live feed tab open to follow the speeches, and a BJ tab open to follow the commentary here. I’m enjoying the convention so far, and I expect this to be pretty epic. Remember that Gore was trying to distance himself from (Bill) Clinton during his race, and nobody has wanted W around, so this is a deep field of awesomeness and achievement lined up for a former FLOTUS on deck to become POTUS.
Mnemosyne
@opiejeanne:
I don’t know if you ever watch TV animation, but “Bob’s Burgers” had an episode where they go down to visit his in-laws in Florida and slowly realize that it’s a swingers’ retirement village. And that the in-laws moved there for that reason. It’s really, really funny.
opiejeanne
@NotMax: Got it.
TheMightyTrowel
@Major Major Major Major: no fuck YOU. ;-)
TheMightyTrowel
@seaboogie: Vox put it up
jenn
Hey all, I have another couple of hours of work yet to do, so I’m going to sign off so I can get to it – just wanted to say that I’m glad that my life/work-induced hiatus from the site is now over – I missed you snarling pack of vicious jackals! (Or whatever the saying is!) Have a happy evening.
Mary G
Just watched Bill’s speech because I fell asleep earlier and loved it. I didn’t even notice how much time he took.
opiejeanne
@Mnemosyne: I have seen the show a few times but I didn’t see that one. My older daughter probably had fits if she saw it.
There is a photo of both daughters and their SOs dressed up like characters from that show for Hallowe’en. It’s hilarious.
opiejeanne
@TheMightyTrowel: That’s more like it.
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: @opiejeanne: Bob’s Burgers is hilarious and amazing. Tina is my spirit animal.
Dog Dawg Damn
@FlipYrWhig: The party of family values installs the womanizing thrice married Orange Julius, and Bill is expected to ruin his wife’s greatest night by bringing up something which was litigated publicly 20 years ago. Astounding.
Dog Dawg Damn
@Major Major Major Major: so you’re an ass man, eh? BUTTS!
Aqualad08
@Adam L Silverman: Yeah, Steele is no Jeffery Lord, that’s for damn sure.
Dog Dawg Damn
@Quinerly: Wait, was Melania an escort?
Mnemosyne
@opiejeanne:
Bob has to help his FIL figure out what his kink is so they don’t get thrown out of the community for not attending the “potlucks.” Your kids probably had conniptions when they saw it.
Strangely, it has a Hillary connection: it’s called “It Snakes A Village.”
Major Major Major Major
@Dog Dawg Damn: You should see my erotic friend fiction.
Capri
@Trentrunner: I think Brian Williams has completely thrown Rachel off her game. He is such an empty suit. She is trying to dialog with him, but he doesn’t talk, he makes pronouncements. So there’s no way to have a back and forth. It’s painful. She was a lot better in past years when he wasn’t there.
Aqualad08
Maggie Haberman of the NYT and Chuck Todd basically both said the big story tonight is McAuliffe’s TPP fuck-up. Both said “it’s got legs.” Which means the barrel is REALLY getting scrapped tonight…
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
That whole obsession with guys’ butts that Tina has? Yeah. It’s a real thing. My friends and I even had our own nerdy slang for a nice butt.
BethanyAnne
RE Loveless marriage: this tweet
Prescott Cactus
Change Maker !
I think this laid out to show Bernie Bros that HRC can be the agent of change they didn’t get. It also plays to the trumpeters who believe all change must be grandiose.
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: And it was…?
Aqualad08
@Capri: It’s almost like his need for false equivalency is taking the air out of the room… if it weren’t for Joy, Chris and Howard, I wouldn’t keep MSNBC on long enough to turn them off when Hugh Hewitt’s underbite makes an appearance…
Mike J
Sorry I missed Bill. My first campaign was in the DC field office in ’92. The entire office ran off a 386 running Xenix with a dedicated 56K line back to Little Rock. By running the office off one 386, I mean people didn’t have PC on their desks, they had terminals that hooked into the 386. Actually only the important political types had terminals. Us underlings had PCs.
We were on F street, 2 or 3 blocks from the old 9:30 club.
Went racing tonight. I had a newbie crew and a bigger, slower boat. More comfort to make up for less speed, but I snagged a 2nd place and went to the Dog & Pony for a hefeweizen so all is good.
BethanyAnne
I thought Bill’s speech was charming. It’s great to hear about HRC’s history, and her being talked about as an accomplished person, rather than a demon or superwoman. It also ties in nicely to that Vox piece last week about her strengths being her listening and her work ethic.
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
Salt. Because NaCl (nice ass, clean lines).
I told you we were nerds. Horny teenage girl nerds, just like Tina.
Mnemosyne
Last comment before bed if anyone needs to be persuaded to watch Bill’s speech: it immediately made me start thinking about the similar stories I have about and with my own husband, and that’s exactly what it was supposed to do.
BethanyAnne
And Bad Lip Reading did Ted Cruz’s speech at the RNC! Link
opiejeanne
@Mnemosyne: I’m not sure either daughter is aware of Hillary’s book. they’re both in their 30s
TheMightyTrowel
@opiejeanne: I’m 33 and aware of hillary’s book. It was my mom’s bathroom reading – I remember being so impressed she had a signed copy (Hill visited a hospital she worked at pretty soon after the book came out) adn so confused about why she kept her signed copy in the bathroom
Mnemosyne
Okay, okay, really last thing: I can’t stop watching the music video that Elizabeth Banks directed for tonight’s show, and it ain’t because it’s bad. The song is damn catchy, even if I am too old to recognize half the people in the video.
trollhattan
@BethanyAnne: @Mnemosyne:
Yes and yes. Big dog spent most of a speech talking about somebody else–something one doesn’t expect and something Donald literally cannot do.He was charming. Like learning about Kaine for the first time, I feel as though I’m learning about Hillary for the first time.
Does nobody in the media care about the rape allegation of the then 13YO against Trump? Boys will be boys? WJC is supposed to bring up a two-decade old affair in the course of endorsing his wife? The heck?
opiejeanne
@TheMightyTrowel: I may be a deficient mother in that respect, since I didn’t buy the book when it came out. I did read it, checked it out from the library.
My youngest is 33. Her sister is 37 and she’s the one who might possibly know about the book and get the joke in that title.
Anne Laurie
@Dog Dawg Damn:
Not in so many words. She was a (struggling) model in NYC, whose agency required her to attend ‘celebrity parties’ where she could chat up rich guys. That’s how she met Donald — he honestly admired how toughly she negotiated her progress from ‘party girl’ to ‘date’ to ‘girlfriend’, that’s how she ascended to Wife #3.
Not exactly “I saw Hillary in the library, and was too awed to ask her out — boy am I glad she asked *me*” but then, that’s a snooty elitist meet-cute.
Anne Laurie
@trollhattan:
It would not be Republican to care about allegations from some slutty teenager and her shyster, would it?
And the media won’t push very hard, because (IMO) ewwww. It’s one thing to fantasize about rich dudes flying to private sex parties, and another to contemplate the desperate women (girls!) being used as toys for the boys.
SectionH
@Ultraviolet Thunder: Sigh.
Just say Hello to all the great people in the DTW DL clubs. VIckie, Maria…
I so miss them.
Dog Dawg Damn
@trollhattan: really? Rachel Maddow says he only talked about himself. Huh. That’s odd.
GeorgeSpiggott
@Adam L Silverman:
He was the cow on the tracks
Peter
@trollhattan:
I think at least part of it is probably that the case hasn’t been heard yet, and won’t be until after the election, and until then it’s pretty well impossible for outsiders to know how how legit the suit is. And if they make a bunch of hay about it and it turns out to be a huge load of BS, they could be exposing themselves to a lawsuit.
I wish the case had been filed a year earlier, so it could be more of a factor in the election. Normally at this point I’d very much be in wait-and-see mode and think the media was doing the correct thing by holding off on judgement until the facts were in, but the American people do kind of deserve to know whether one of their candidates is a child rapist. It’s just bad timing.
Applejinx
@Bruuuuce: Thank you.
Bernie people gotta move in to the Democratic Party and set up camp politely and firmly. I get that ‘politely’ is a big pile of fail right now, but we got nowhere else to go. This isn’t a system where you can have third parties, so the Dem tent has to be the big tent.
It IS the next generation of Democrats and they need to temper their red-hot idealism with practical coalition politics. It’s like quenching and tempering a sword. Around here it’s not hard to find ‘quenching’ but if you only do that, the steel is brittle and the result is just going to shatter.
And that is why you see our Dem leadership fawning over Bernie and his people (without giving up things that are too important). It’s tempering after the quenching. You don’t take a big and young constituency, quench them, and then allow them to shatter and render the whole coalition useless. It seems to me the Dem leadership, experienced as they are, know what they’re doing. And, rightly, have concluded ‘those young voters are OURS. in fact they are US’.
And so they are.
FlipYrWhig
@Applejinx: Hey AJ, I apologize for crossing a line earlier last night.
Applejinx
@FlipYrWhig: No worries. Accepted <3
Aimai
@FlipYrWhig: right–and why isnt donald supposed to address his rape charges or his divorces? He wasnt criticized for not bringing those things up. Its the clinhon rules all over again.
louc
@Bobby D:
To defend the *majority* of Bernie supporters in the convention, it was a minority, something like 200 at most. They’re making the whole group look bad, which is a shame.
Seth Meyers had a funny takedown of the Bernie or Bust folks.
Applejinx
@louc: I saw that on my Twitter feed! I’m not who he’s talking to, but I loved it :)
John D.
@Anne Laurie:
Given that I don’t believe a word Trump says, including “a”, “and” and “the”, I’m inclined to take that story with a boulder-sized grain of Himalayan Pink Rock Salt.
John D.
@Applejinx:
That is assuming facts not in evidence. A *significant* portion of the Bernie crowd I’ve seen online and in meatspace are older than I am by a decade or two, and I have kids who are married and out of college. Painting all of the support of Bernie in your fashion elides the simple fact that many of them are people who were Democrats previously and left because large portions of the Big Tent were insufficiently pure/progressive/ideological for their tastes, and it’s very important that we recognize that the changes they want are not necessarily an unalloyed Good.
We lost the dixiecrats after the Civil Rights legislation passed, but I’ll fight to the death anyone who says we need to be more racist to recover those votes. There are positions to the left of the Democratic platform that I feel are actively harmful to our party and our country. I do not think some of Bernie’s supporters are the “next generation” of anything other than cranky, bitter folks who want to have someone else to blame for their failures.
JosieJ (not Josie)
@seaboogie:
I have to dispute this: Hillary Clinton attended an all-woman college (as did I), and at least in my day, there was a marked emphasis on calling us “women” rather than “girls.” It might have been a bit aspirational–we were still very young–but it stressed our responsibilities to and for ourselves.
I don’t disagree that Maddow is completely missing the point, though. “In the spring of 1971, I met a girl” (I don’t remember if this is the exact quote) is very much a literary construction, and the beginning of a story. It’s basically “Once upon a time,” while at the same time humanizing Hillary–how many of us, even those of us who admire her, think about her as the idealistic young woman she once was?
philadelphialawyer
Re the Sanders delegate….Sorry, but, to me, being a cry baby because you finally have to go from wearing diapers to big boy pants is just not all that laudable. No, Sanders did not lead a “movement,” much less a “revolution.” What he did lead, and rather poorly at that, was a run of the ranch, failed presidential nomination campaign. I see nothing different about Sanders 2016 from what Hillary did in ’08, Dean did in ’04, Bradley did in 2000, what Jesse Jackson did, and Gary Hart, and so on.
This delegate’s only viable and responsible course of action is now to support Hillary Clinton. OK, he, unlike some of his even worse, even brattier, even more entitled cohorts, is willing to do that. Good for him. Just like good for Sanders himself for finally doing the right thing. But, doing the right thing, in the end, belatedly, when there is no real choice but to do the right thing, does not make you a hero. Nor does it erase all the bullshit surrounding your course of conduct up to that point.
Uncle Cosmo
@TheMightyTrowel: And you both mean it in the nicest possible way….
Miss Bianca
@Adam L Silverman: Ridiculously late to this thread, so you probably won’t see this, but thank you for bringing up that point. Monica Lewinski had her life ruined – turned into a salacious joke for the delectation of a merciless press corps and political opposition. Fuck you, David Axlerod.
Stan
@jenn: Nicole Wallace took note that the women reporters all thought it was creepy and the men all thought it was fine.
OTOH, I was watching with my wife and she didn’t think it was creepy at all. She thought it was very humanizing.
There, that’s a sample size of maybe 6 or 8. ;)
Stan
@Fair Economist: No, never. Saying “Hello” or “Pardon me…” works pretty well. Touching a stranger is never OK
Stan
Regarding the delegates – at least where I am from, the Hillary delegates are party old-timers. A few of them a great, hard working democrats. Most of them are corrupt office holders who are purely in office so they can get to the next office they want. E.g., mayors who want to be congresscritters, etc.
They have no more commitment to democratic party ideals than trump does. This is nothing but a job suck-up to them.
The local Bernie supporters were genuinely committed democrats for the most part. They risked their own political futures to support him. Our local dem committee is old, conservative, and corrupt. Because they control most local elected offices, they can easily brush aside newcomers.
I am a longtime Hillary supporter, just saying, at my local level I have pretty much zero respect for our convention delegates.
glory b
@Mnemosyne: He’s black, so it didn’t count, of course.
philadelphialawyer
@Stan:
Right. You’re a Hillary supporter.
But all the other Hillary supporters are corrupt and conservative. Not to mention “old.” Well, being old is not a negative. As for the rest of it: bullshit. Bullshit that you are a Hillary supporter. And bullshit on your characterization of her delegates.
Oh, and go fuck yourself, too.
Stan
@philadelphialawyer: Indeed I hope ‘old’ is not a negative since I am old myself.
You don’t know the people I am writing about so calling it ‘bullshit’ is simple nonsense. You cannot know one way or the other.
I can do without the personal attacks, OK? if you disagree with what I say, fine. But you know nothing about me, nor I you. Stick with the issues.
There are lots of great democratic officials in this country. Sadly, very few of them live in my community even though it is solidly blue.
I said nothing about Hillary supporters in general. I am characterizing her delegates that came out of MY community. Mine. Not yours, not the USA. Corruption is rampant here. I have been very active in the party (as a volunteer, as a committee member and as an office holder) and in the community and that’s what I see. That is what folks are up against here.
philadelphialawyer
@Stan:
First of all, you twice used the word “old” in a clearly derogatory way. And that sucks. Don’t really care if you are old yourself, or not. It still sucks, either way.
In fact, that takes us to point two, which is that I don’t really care about you in general, or you unverifiable, alleged “lifetime” commitment to Hillary. What I do care about is your bullshit assessment of her delegates. Which is bullshit. And this actual Hillary supporter has heard more than enough derogatory bullshit about Hillary, and her supporters, over the last couple of decades, to last me a lifetime.
So, yeah, go fuck yourself. OK?