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You are here: Home / Past Elections / Election 2016 / The Siberian Candidate

The Siberian Candidate

by Tom Levenson|  July 28, 20161:22 pm| 244 Comments

This post is in: Election 2016, Foreign Affairs, Grifters Gonna Grift, Hail to the Hairpiece, IOKIYAR, Blatant Liars and the Lies They Tell, Our Failed Media Experiment

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The Trump story of the morning appears to be a clumsy attempt to walk back yesterday’s folly/treason.  The ferret-headed Benedict Arnold now says he was just kidding.

In the reality-based universe this looks ridiculous, a twelve year old bully’s gambit to duck out of trouble when his mouth makes a promise the rest of him can’t back up.

In a political world described to the electorate but a media community that is either complicit (Fox, et al.) or cowed into ineffectuality (at best), it’s at least a solid move by Trump, and maybe more so.  He gets two main benefits out of what should be a candidacy-killing blunder.

The first is a refocusing of attention onto the Hillary email story, never mind that the actual hack — and the evil thereof –was not on Clinton’s server but was instead an attack against one of America’s two major political parties.  To all those — I spoke to one yesterday — who see Hillary as guilty, guilty, guilty, any means necessary to bring her down is just fine, and this story helps fuel that hunger while reminding everyone, yet again, that Hillary is the worst ever traitor/murderess/spy/arglebarglegabblegibberish….

The second, and even more potent benefit to Trump is the distraction his invocation of Russian spycraft offers the media.  This is classic misdirection. Focus on the more sensational, but ultimately off-the-point element of a story instead of the meat of the matter.

That would be, of course, how Trump has already, and will likely continue to pay off on Putin’s investment in his sorry ass.  Josh Marshall wrote an elegant bill of indictment a week ago, and our own Adam has gone into some detail on the extraordinary damage Trump is wreaking on more than a half a century of American geopolitics.

To do the TL:DR — Trump increasingly depends on Russian money as more and more of the major players in the western financial system have learned to their sorrow that he’s a litigious deadbeat.  That means that Trump doesn’t have to be a witting agent of the Kremlin; he’s already been bought and paid for (and, as Adam has noted, he’s long curried favor with/genuinely supported Russian authoritarians).

Giotto_di_Bondone_-_No._28_Scenes_from_the_Life_of_Christ_-_12._Judas'_Betrayal_-_WGA09213

You can see how much vig he’s paid already:  threats to NATO and other allies, the signals he’s sending on Putin’s ambitions in the Baltic, Chamberlain-esque appeasement in his seeming willingness to accept Russia’s annexation of Crimea, explicit changes the GOP position on Ukraine in an unequivocal shift towards the Kremlin line.

Does Trump believe in any of that, independently of a Russian handler? Who knows and who cares.  The threat Trump’s Russian connections poses to US and world security exist whether or not he’s a dupe, a useful idiot, a debtor, or (easily the least likely, IMHO) an actual witting asset of the FSB.  The real story lies in two strands and two only.  First:  follow the money.  What does Trump owe to whom? Where does/can he lay his hands on cash these days?

Second:  look at what Trump has done and proposes to do.  Not the conditional BS — how great it would be if Putin hacked HIllary.  The real stuff, the weakening of the western alliance, down-the-line support for Kremlin actions and arguments.

This is a test of our political media, one I’m afraid is already being flubbed.  Trump is a good — no, a great — three card monte player.  The patter conceals the real action.

This is how a Siberian Candidate gets the job done.

For our part, it’s a matter of keeping the story alive as much as we can in every venue we can: calling representatives, hitting social media, writing letters to the editor, and above all, talking to voters who need help seeing what’s at stake in this election.

Image:  Giotto di Bondone, Judas Receiving Payment For His Betrayal, between 1304 and 1306.

 

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Previous Post: « Back from Denver and Prepping for Japan
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Reader Interactions

244Comments

  1. 1.

    Mike E

    July 28, 2016 at 1:26 pm

    I still think he won’t last until Nov… call it a hunch after hearing him speak and watching his ‘alternative clutch’ technique of holding onto the podium

  2. 2.

    kindness

    July 28, 2016 at 1:27 pm

    Those 30,000 e-mails of Hillary? They aren’t missing. The FBI got them last year: Here’s NPR’s report from 9/15.

  3. 3.

    MattF

    July 28, 2016 at 1:27 pm

    I’m starting to think Putin is tightening the leash a bit– not returning Trump’s calls, keeping him on hold… “I’m sorry but Comrade Putin is in a meeting right now. He’ll call you back ASAP.”

    Also, is there anyone who doesn’t know that every single thing that Trump says is a lie?

  4. 4.

    LAO

    July 28, 2016 at 1:28 pm

    Has there been any reaction out of the Trump camp, besides “the Bloomberg spends too much money on gun control” statement last night, to Bloomberg’s speech? I expect it enraged Trump but really haven’t seen anything.

  5. 5.

    slag

    July 28, 2016 at 1:30 pm

    Just another ‘fool or knave’ question to add to the list. But really, with those as the only serious options, I’m starting to wonder how much it matters.

    Speaking of, I found this Onion article hilarious, particularly the last sentence:

    Trump, who reportedly noticed that the social media post had quickly received over 10,000 retweets, instinctively fired off three more tweets questioning Pence’s fitness for vice president.

    Now THAT’s actually funny.

  6. 6.

    dmsilev

    July 28, 2016 at 1:31 pm

    @LAO: He’s been pretty quiet since last night. There was that weak-sauce Bloomberg response, and his campaign sent out a fundraising letter urging his supporters not to watch Hillary tonight (probably because her beating him in the TV ratings would badly bruise his ego), and a couple of minor tweets. That’s about it.

    Oh, and:

    between 1304 and 1306.

    So, 1305 then?

  7. 7.

    Shalimar

    July 28, 2016 at 1:32 pm

    Trump didn’t just say during the press conference that Russia should hack her emails and turn them over to the US press. He also later tweeted out exactly the same thing, except with “FBI” replacing “press”. Some joke.

    The Trump campaign seriously thought all day yesterday that this story was a big win for them because it took attention away from the Democratic Convention. Now he is trying to make it a “win” today by using the “sarcastic” bullshit to take attention away from the speeches he is too terrified to comment on.

  8. 8.

    singfoom

    July 28, 2016 at 1:33 pm

    There are small indications that Media are learning. But in general, if this is a test of our media, I worry for our future. They haven’t got a great track record when it comes to tests.

    Perhaps in the coming months during the general they’ll start to test him. I think a lot of his supporters just think that any challenges to his statements are biased. Look at Newt Gingrich saying that “the public feels that crime is out of control” vs. the reporter interviewing him quoting facts, his response is “You stay with your theoreticians, I’ll stay with the American people”

    “My feelings are just as valid as your facts” is the basic play at all points for Drumpf and his campaign.

  9. 9.

    slag

    July 28, 2016 at 1:34 pm

    @kindness: Good on NPR (for a change). I want that story linked to from every news story about Hillary’s “missing” emails from here on out.

  10. 10.

    Chris

    July 28, 2016 at 1:36 pm

    @singfoom:

    If media learn anything from this, it’ll just be Trump Exceptionalism. The very best case scenario for this is that they finally admit how unhinged and dangerous he is. Any extrapolations about the state of his party… just won’t happen.

  11. 11.

    RaflW

    July 28, 2016 at 1:36 pm

    @MattF:

    Also, is there anyone who doesn’t know that every single thing that Trump says is a lie?

    Lots of people don’t care that it is all lies. That is the rot at the center of both the GOP and a significant chunk of our media.

  12. 12.

    Face

    July 28, 2016 at 1:36 pm

    talking to voters who need help seeing what’s at stake in this election

    If it wasn’t “emails” to the knuckledraggers, it’d still be Benghazi. Or her Iraq vote. Or Vince Foster and Paula Jones and Whitewater. Peeps who dont like HRC cant be talked out of it; they’ve been hating for far too long. The best we can hope is that Johnson takes a fair number of GOP votes instead of BS votes; that could tip it in the Dems favor. But conversion of HRC haters is nigh impossible.

  13. 13.

    slag

    July 28, 2016 at 1:40 pm

    @singfoom: This Newt Gingrich riff on CNN really highlights how the GOP capitalizes on media bias to supplant facts with feelings.

    That CNN reporter did a decent job getting us there, but the next question really should be: “Why do Americans ‘feel’ things to be true when they are not?” A decent portion of the answer involves both Newt Gingrich and CNN.

  14. 14.

    scav

    July 28, 2016 at 1:41 pm

    Trump: to him, international security is a joke.

    (Still a little long for a bumper sticker.)

  15. 15.

    Elmo

    July 28, 2016 at 1:41 pm

    @Face: the most recent is that Seth Rich, the 27-year-old DNC employee shot and killed in DC a couple of weeks ago, was a “potential whistleblower.” It’s pathological.

  16. 16.

    OGLiberal

    July 28, 2016 at 1:43 pm

    I’m convinced that beyond “winning”, Trump really doesn’t care if he becomes president. And I think all this stuff is just him pushing the limits, testing how far he can go until he gets called out seriously, until he faces a scenario where he has to seriously apologize or even drop out. Sadly, nothing will be too outrageous for the voters who are going to vote for him – who are at least 47% of Americans. (people I know, have known all my life, people I love, fall into this category – maybe I need to rethink that love because it seems the hating on brown people is the prime motivator for them…these are not rich folks) And the media will always try to come up with a both sides approach, either by downplaying Trump’s foolishness or by blowing up some Hillary nothingburger. The only response is to GOTV. That’s it – can’t rely on Trump, the GOP or the media reigning Trump in and can’t rely on the media to tell the real story.

  17. 17.

    Jeffro

    July 28, 2016 at 1:43 pm

    Just found out Kaine’s Secret Service code name is Daredevil – DAREDEVIL!!! How freakin’ cool is THAT?!?

  18. 18.

    Nemo_N

    July 28, 2016 at 1:43 pm

    Amusing reads; some conservatives battling their fellows’ attempts to excuse Trump:

    https://twitter.com/RadioFreeTom

    https://twitter.com/TheRickWilson

  19. 19.

    Amir Khalid

    July 28, 2016 at 1:46 pm

    As I understand the Constitutional definition, it’s only treason if an American joins in an actual war on the US, or aids an enemy in wartime. (The lawyers’ contingent here has done a lot to educate the rest of the Juicitariat.) Since Russia is not currently at war with America, inciting its intel agencies to spy on American individuals or even government agencies is thus not treason. Of course, it’s still a wretchedly heinous thing for the Republican presidential nominee to say. One doesn’t expect the party hierarchy to revoke its nomination of Trump over anything — it doesn’t have the balls authority — but common decency demands that it at least denounce Trump for this.

  20. 20.

    Chris

    July 28, 2016 at 1:46 pm

    @Jeffro:

    Is Trump’s “Kingpin?”

  21. 21.

    dr. bloor

    July 28, 2016 at 1:48 pm

    @Jeffro: There was no alternative once he was spotted wearing Dad cyclist pants.

  22. 22.

    Yutsano

    July 28, 2016 at 1:49 pm

    @Shalimar: A joke is saying it once. He said it three times umprompted then tweeted it later. This doesn’t pass any kind of smell test unless you’re a Villager worried about access or a Trumpkin.

  23. 23.

    dr. bloor

    July 28, 2016 at 1:50 pm

    @Chris: Desperado.

  24. 24.

    singfoom

    July 28, 2016 at 1:52 pm

    @slag: Thank you for finding the clip, I didn’t have time to get it.

    That CNN reporter did a decent job getting us there, but the next question really should be: “Why do Americans ‘feel’ things to be true when they are not?” A decent portion of the answer involves both Newt Gingrich and CNN.

    I agree with you about the next question. I don’t think any CNN reporter will go there since it involves an examination of media bias present in both CNN and Fox’s coverage. It is at least a good start.

  25. 25.

    Jeffro

    July 28, 2016 at 1:52 pm

    @Chris:

    Is Trump’s “Kingpin?”

    I’d settle for it being “Typhoid” (or better yet, “Lester”), but apparently he’s “Mogul”, with Melania being “Muse”

  26. 26.

    SFAW

    July 28, 2016 at 1:52 pm

    @OGLiberal:

    Sadly, nothing will be too outrageous for the voters who are going to vote for him – who are at least 47% of Americans.

    Unfortunately, this is probably accurate. It may take until the second Trump term before the 27 percent figure is reached. Even then …

    Trump could strangle kittens on prime time TV, and his idolaters would say “Well, those kittens must have done something really terrible to deserve that. And anyway, Hillary has done a lot worse!”

    Fuck Nixon, fuck Reagan, fuck Roger Ailes, and fuck Rupert Murdoch for their policies/complicity/encouragement in making the American electorate so fucking stupid.

  27. 27.

    Applejinx

    July 28, 2016 at 1:54 pm

    @Chris: ‘Muppet’

    edit: “The term mogul is from the Bavarian language word “mugel,” which means mound or small hill.”

    Fair enough then…

  28. 28.

    Feebog

    July 28, 2016 at 1:54 pm

    I had one Trump supporter on Facebook argue that his calling for Russia to hack Clinton’s emails was a brilliant preemptive move because it would smoke out the real hackers. No really, that was the argument.

  29. 29.

    Mike in NC

    July 28, 2016 at 1:54 pm

    Drumpf is the Chaos Candidate: erratic, unpredictable, and bombastic. That’s why the media adores him.

  30. 30.

    Highway Rob

    July 28, 2016 at 1:54 pm

    (1) “Putin should commit cyberwar against the U.S.” (2) “Just kidding, folks, and how stupid are you for thinking it was a true statement?” Isn’t the next step (3) “Democrats are the real traitors?” And is there somewhere I can place an over/under bet on how long it takes to get from here to there?

  31. 31.

    scav

    July 28, 2016 at 1:55 pm

    @Jeffro: Yes, but would names like “Doormat” or “Tchotcke” (“Flatpack has left the building.”) be assigned often? I can see a few Little John names sneaking through but I somehow rather assume the guys with the dark glasses would prefer to sound cool when shouting things down their cuffs.

  32. 32.

    Cermet

    July 28, 2016 at 1:55 pm

    Like all such over-the-top statements, this too shall pass as he says some new, interesting stupidity. Meanwhile, he will continue to lie and call Hillary all types of names that the rubes eat up because frankly, they are stupid, with little hope, and are convinced as white men, they deserve better – especially that N”cang!” are getting free money that rightfully belongs to them.

  33. 33.

    Matt McIrvin

    July 28, 2016 at 1:55 pm

    @Amir Khalid: Russia is our frenemy, so giving them aid and comfort is an act of freason.

  34. 34.

    Gin & Tonic

    July 28, 2016 at 1:56 pm

    So while I and some other commenters here figured that Il Donaldo’s AMA last night on Reddit would turn into a fiasco for him, as those things are difficult to control, apparently he did go on to hold it (or somebody did, I don’t know if his typing can keep up, what with those short digits) and it had all the drama and spontaneity of a Kim Jong Un presser. Moderators were kept very busy deleting any and all even mildly challenging questions.

  35. 35.

    singfoom

    July 28, 2016 at 1:56 pm

    @SFAW: “Trump had to strangle these kittens to keep them from living a life where they were dependent on the government and taught their kittens to be dependent on the government. He saved them from a life in the kitten ghetto that Hillary and her socialist enablers want all cats to live in.”

  36. 36.

    pseudonymous in nc

    July 28, 2016 at 1:58 pm

    100 days.

    Think about how many top-tier Dems will be sharing the physical burden of campaigning with HRC.

    Think about how few GOPers will share the burden for Trump. And how he can’t spend the night under a roof he doesn’t own: it’s either NYC or Florida or LA. Lots and lots of travel miles, pressurised cabins, airplane air, a very different intensity to the primary schedule. He’s already getting sloppy. He’s going to get more erratic. If anyone wants to put their thumbs on the electoral scale, whether through hacking or terrorism, that’s going to be the time they act. The Dems do need to be aware of this.

  37. 37.

    Shalimar

    July 28, 2016 at 2:00 pm

    @scav: You can shorten it to “Trump, International Joke” for the bumper sticker.

  38. 38.

    SFAW

    July 28, 2016 at 2:00 pm

    @singfoom:

    That’s the excuse for the better-educated ones — it involves following a train of “thought.” Not really disagreeing, it’s just that my version is aimed more at the Common Clay of the New America.

  39. 39.

    scav

    July 28, 2016 at 2:00 pm

    @Feebog: DIY international jurisprudence and national security by bored rich unelected civilian? That’s a conservative position. The government’s drowned and outsourced directly to rich guys and their foreign workforces.

  40. 40.

    BR

    July 28, 2016 at 2:01 pm

    @slag:

    We need to email, tweet, etc. that article to every reporter who reports on this as if there are “missing” emails, which is nonsense, and that the FBI doesn’t have them (which is the new GOP line).

  41. 41.

    Trollhattan

    July 28, 2016 at 2:03 pm

    @scav:
    Love “Flatpack.” Ranks up there with Duffel Palin.

  42. 42.

    rp

    July 28, 2016 at 2:04 pm

    In a political world described to the electorate but a media community that is either complicit (Fox, et al.) or cowed into ineffectuality (at best), it’s at least a solid move by Trump, and maybe more so. He gets two main benefits out of what should be a candidacy-killing blunder.

    Not sure I agree with this. If anything, I think it could make the situation worse. He’s arguing that he was just kidding, but by labeling it a joke he’s essentially admitting that what he said was out of bounds. And it makes him look a little weak.

  43. 43.

    Jeffro

    July 28, 2016 at 2:05 pm

    @Feebog:

    I had one Trump supporter on Facebook argue that his calling for Russia to hack Clinton’s emails was a brilliant preemptive move because it would smoke out the real hackers. No really, that was the argument.

    The perception that ‘rich folks are smarter than the rest of us’ is just a slight variation on ‘rich folks are better than the rest of us’. Truly, he is their God-King and no amount of cognitive dissonance is going to give them even a moment’s pause.

    But let’s try anyway!
    Ask your FB contact if perhaps Trump, with all his wealth and smarts, couldn’t have simply offered a reward to American hackers: hack and turn in Hillary’s missing emails to the FBI and I’ll donate $X million to a private Swiss account of your choice, plus another $X million to charity. No espionage involved, no foreign intelligence services involved, just good ol’ American hacking-for-hire, for the good of the country, of course.

    But no…Doofus went and asked a foreign country…the very one we know is behind the DNC hacking…to hack into HRC’s emails and someone else will ‘reward you mightily’

    Trump gives everything -10 seconds of thought before he speaks…which is great for reality TV but the opposite of great for every other job on the planet and most certainly for President.

  44. 44.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 28, 2016 at 2:05 pm

    @SFAW: You know, morans.

  45. 45.

    philpm

    July 28, 2016 at 2:05 pm

    @pseudonymous in nc:

    Think about how few GOPers will share the burden for Trump.

    Here’s our bit of reverse psychology: Clinton’s staff need to get as many establishment GOPers to be seen with Trump as often as possible, giving him that “establishment taint” and turning off as many of the bigots and dead-enders as possible.

  46. 46.

    Timurid

    July 28, 2016 at 2:06 pm

    I assumed it was a joke when he first said it.
    Of course it was a horribly tasteless joke and something you should never, ever joke about in that setting… unless your idea of the ideal Commander in Chief is Andrew Dice Clay…

  47. 47.

    Jeffro

    July 28, 2016 at 2:06 pm

    Btw can anyone tell me – what was Bill O’Reilly’s undoubtedly lame and dishonest excuse for saying slaves were “well-fed and housed” the other night?

  48. 48.

    MattF

    July 28, 2016 at 2:08 pm

    @Highway Rob: “I’m not a traitor, they’re the traitors.” Hmm. I see the logic there.

  49. 49.

    kwAwk

    July 28, 2016 at 2:08 pm

    There’s more to this than just a joke. If the Russians were to be able to release the private emails from Hillary’s server it would go to show that the Russians had indeed hacked Hillary’s private server and it would give more juice to the email scandal, because as of now there is no evidence that her private server was hacked.

  50. 50.

    JPL

    July 28, 2016 at 2:09 pm

    @Jeffro: The media was mean to me.

  51. 51.

    philpm

    July 28, 2016 at 2:10 pm

    @Jeffro: He seems to be sticking by it, and that all the criticism amounts to “haters gonna hate, and they want me dead to boot.”

  52. 52.

    JPL

    July 28, 2016 at 2:10 pm

    @kwAwk: Wasn’t the State Department hacked around the same time?

  53. 53.

    SFAW

    July 28, 2016 at 2:11 pm

    @pseudonymous in nc:

    Think about how few GOPers will share the burden for Trump.

    Good one!

    They’ll fall in line, the way they always do. The ones that don’t, no one will care about anyway.

  54. 54.

    Trollhattan

    July 28, 2016 at 2:13 pm

    @Jeffro:
    Assume same as always: Liberals hate the truth!

  55. 55.

    Comrade Scrutinizer

    July 28, 2016 at 2:13 pm

    @Jeffro: It takes the focus off slavery, and puts the focus on their treatment. “Slavery’s okay as long as we feed them well.”

  56. 56.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 28, 2016 at 2:13 pm

    @Jeffro: Forget it, Jeffro. It’s Billdo.

  57. 57.

    Quinerly

    July 28, 2016 at 2:14 pm

    The tangled webs we weave! Rupert Murdoch’s wife of 14 years (Wendi Deng) is now involved with/dating Putin. Supposedly Murdoch left her because she had gotten way to cozy with Tony Blair, the godfather of their daughter (Grace). And of course, we know that Jerry Hall (Mick’s ex) is now married to Murdoch. Gossip aside, I do find it interesting that Murdoch’s ex wife is seeing Putin….or at least that was the story on several reputable sites back in May. Couldn’t find any updates.

  58. 58.

    Trollhattan

    July 28, 2016 at 2:15 pm

    @Jeffro:
    A reminder to us all that OJ is still hunting the real killers and has even infiltrated a prison to help his cause.

  59. 59.

    Timurid

    July 28, 2016 at 2:15 pm

    Joke or not, Trump is now begging for a good hacking… and provoking a cyberwar is a monumentally bad idea for someone who’s got more skeletons in his closet than the Smithsonian…

  60. 60.

    Cacti

    July 28, 2016 at 2:17 pm

    For any crime syndicate to function, people at all levels have to keep their mouths shut in public. The Sicilian Mafia calls it Omerta. Not sure what the Russian mob calls it, but they all practice it.

    Trump on the other hand has a big, fat, mouth, and the need to always talk himself up.

    Vlad is not amused.

  61. 61.

    Trollhattan

    July 28, 2016 at 2:18 pm

    O/T R.I.P Jack Davis. Those from the Mad Mag era will understand.

  62. 62.

    SFAW

    July 28, 2016 at 2:19 pm

    @rp:

    He’s arguing that he was just kidding, but by labeling it a joke he’s essentially admitting that what he said was out of bounds. And it makes him look a little weak.

    Boy, you’re an optimistic chap!

    “The Press deliberately misconstrued what I said, because they’re in the bag for Crooked Hillary! They’re giving her cover the way they always have, and they’re lying about me!”

    And the rubes will eat it up.

  63. 63.

    Waldo

    July 28, 2016 at 2:19 pm

    @Timurid:

    I assumed it was a joke when he first said it.

    Same here. It was a joke on par with Bush’s zany video about searching for Iraq’s missing WMDs. Not so funny and not at all presidential.

  64. 64.

    SFAW

    July 28, 2016 at 2:20 pm

    @Trollhattan:

    A reminder to us all that OJ is still hunting the real killers and has even infiltrated a prison to help his cause.

    “Infiltrated” was a nice touch.

  65. 65.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 28, 2016 at 2:20 pm

    @Trollhattan: Mort Drucker still is alive and kicking, but the ranks of the MADmen are thinning fast.

  66. 66.

    Amir Khalid

    July 28, 2016 at 2:20 pm

    @kwAwk:
    And if the Russians were to release convincing but fake “Hillary emails”, they could accuse her of practically anything; and many in America would willingly believe it just because they hate her that much.

  67. 67.

    BR

    July 28, 2016 at 2:21 pm

    @kwAwk:

    Haven’t a bunch of those emails already been released to the public? And also there are no missing emails at all, as noted above?

    I can’t believe the media is that dumb as to uncriticially repeat this nonsense while ignoring the craziness of the idea of having a foreign power hack Americans as a campaign strategy. On second though, maybe I can believe it, but we shouldn’t let it be the way things are.

  68. 68.

    Amir Khalid

    July 28, 2016 at 2:22 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est:
    Many of us here grew up on The Usual Gang of Idiots.

  69. 69.

    Jeffro

    July 28, 2016 at 2:22 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Forget it, Jeffro. It’s Billdo.

    Oh I hear you, I hear you…was just wondering what convoluted mess of an air quote “argument” he was going to go with to excuse what he said. Sounds like no argument at all (other than what JPL, philpm, and Trollhattan have already noted – ‘media meanies’)

  70. 70.

    oldgold

    July 28, 2016 at 2:22 pm

    Here is what I think is being missed in all of this.

    We spent 50 plus years fighting the cold war. Spending tens of thousands of lives and trillions upon trillions of dollars. Whether this was wise or not could be argued by informed people in good faith, but in the end, we did free eastern Europe from the yoke of soul shriveling oppression

    Now, this ass-clown Trump, is signaling he is fine with his Kremlin Comrades reestablishing control over eastern Europe. Fully pissing away all of our 50 plus years of sacrifice and, more importantly, condemning tens of millions to the heavy boot of imperial Russia. For absolutely nothing in return.

    For me, this is the penultimate outrage of this latest leap into madness.

  71. 71.

    rp

    July 28, 2016 at 2:23 pm

    And the rubes will eat it up.

    But will the press?

  72. 72.

    Miss Bianca

    July 28, 2016 at 2:23 pm

    @Trollhattan: I always liked the Bad News Bears poster that Jack Davis drew. But then, I loved the movie too!

  73. 73.

    SFAW

    July 28, 2016 at 2:23 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    Many of us here grew up on The Usual Gang of Idiots.

    Seconded.

  74. 74.

    Amir Khalid

    July 28, 2016 at 2:25 pm

    @rp:
    Trust me, there’s no shortage of rubes in the press. Or of people who will say/write anything if it helps them get ahead.

  75. 75.

    scav

    July 28, 2016 at 2:25 pm

    @rp: The press? Who do you think are the plates, napkins, special sauce and antacids for the tire-irons and anthrax du jour?

  76. 76.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 28, 2016 at 2:27 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    In a 1985 Tonight Show appearance, when Johnny Carson asked Michael J. Fox, “When did you really know you’d made it in show business?”, Fox replied, “When Mort Drucker drew my head.”

    From Mort Drucker’s Wikipedia page. It’s so hard to pick out which of the MADmen was the best, because they were all outstanding…Davis, Drucker, Aragonés, Jaffee, Berg…the list goes on.

  77. 77.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 28, 2016 at 2:29 pm

    @oldgold:

    For absolutely nothing in return.

    Not true! The forgiveness of Drumpf’s many debts to Russian oligarchs is something in return!

  78. 78.

    FlipYrWhig

    July 28, 2016 at 2:29 pm

    Don’t worry, guys, Glenn Greenwald assures us in an interview with Slate that it’s all something something media elites.

  79. 79.

    SFAW

    July 28, 2016 at 2:29 pm

    @rp:

    But will the press?

    Who cares? The Rethugs spent 30 years working the refs, until it became de rigueur to trash the MSM

    et al

    . The wingnuts believe only Fox, and the non-insane get fed the standard “both side” bullshit so much that they’ll never notice if the MSM, as a unit, screams “DONALD TRUMP IS TRYING TO DESTROY AMERICA, AND HERE’S THE EVIDENCE!” Or, if they notice, they’ll assume it’s the Lie-Beral Press having yet another hissy fit.

  80. 80.

    kwAwk

    July 28, 2016 at 2:29 pm

    @JPL:

    Yes, the State Department was hacked. The DNC was hacked. The white house was hacked.

  81. 81.

    Betty Cracker

    July 28, 2016 at 2:29 pm

    You know who thinks it’s perfectly obvious that Trump was joking and avers only a dishonest McCarthyite could think otherwise, no matter how many separate times and ways Trump repeated it, and that the media is pillorying Trump unfairly for a joke because they’re 100% in the tank for Crooked Hillary? Glenn Greenwald.

  82. 82.

    Glidwrith

    July 28, 2016 at 2:30 pm

    IIRC, wasn’t the FEC supposed to release the financial reports for June? What happened to that?

  83. 83.

    pseudonymous in nc

    July 28, 2016 at 2:30 pm

    @SFAW:

    They’ll fall in line, the way they always do. The ones that don’t, no one will care about anyway.

    I don’t really mean “fall in line”. I mean “three stops a day”, sitting on a bus, crappy road food, the actual physical haul of campaigning. We can be pretty sure Kasich isn’t going to lift a finger in Ohio. Is Toomey going to stump on his behalf in PA? McCrory in NC? Any GOPers in Colorado or Nevada? Trump is going to commute between his homes, give Pence the job of covering the bits in the middle, and assume that free media will suffice.

    In the meantime, high-ranking Dems will be on the ground, getting lots of local media, and their campaign staff will be signing up names.

  84. 84.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 28, 2016 at 2:31 pm

    @SFAW: That’s not true! The wingnuts also believe Alex Jones, no matter how unhinged he becomes. Just proves he’s one of them!

  85. 85.

    Mike J

    July 28, 2016 at 2:32 pm

    One poll means nothing, good news or bad. One poll means nothing, good news or bad. One poll means nothing, good news or bad.

    Greg Sargent ‏@ThePlumLineGS 2 hours ago
    New Suffolk poll of *likely voters* in blue-collar, awesomely Trump-friendly PA:

    Clinton 50
    Trump 41

  86. 86.

    Cacti

    July 28, 2016 at 2:32 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    You know who thinks it’s perfectly obvious that Trump was joking and avers only a dishonest McCarthyite could think otherwise, no matter how many separate times and ways Trump repeated it, and that the media is pillorying Trump unfairly for a joke because they’re 100% in the tank for Crooked Hillary? Glenn Greenwald.

    I wonder when Glenn’s Freedom of the Press Foundation will get around to mentioning how often anti-Putin journalists get murdered in his pal Eddie’s current home.

    Any day now, I’m sure.

  87. 87.

    SFAW

    July 28, 2016 at 2:32 pm

    @scav:

    Tire RIMS, if you please

  88. 88.

    raven

    July 28, 2016 at 2:33 pm

    @Amir Khalid: That is also why Jane Fonda was never prosecuted.

  89. 89.

    philpm

    July 28, 2016 at 2:34 pm

    @pseudonymous in nc: Out of that list, I can see McCrory doing it, simply because he has TP cred, and seems to be pretty down with everything Trump is selling.

  90. 90.

    Trollhattan

    July 28, 2016 at 2:34 pm

    @Betty Cracker:
    Did not think it was possible to dislike GG further. Wrong again.

  91. 91.

    SFAW

    July 28, 2016 at 2:34 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Ah, the good old days. Their stuff was awesome.

  92. 92.

    Aimai

    July 28, 2016 at 2:35 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: LOL

  93. 93.

    SFAW

    July 28, 2016 at 2:35 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    That’s not true! The wingnuts also believe Alex Jones, no matter how unhinged he becomes. Just proves he’s one of them!

    Oh, fine. (said in an exasperated tone)

  94. 94.

    The Ancient Randonnuer

    July 28, 2016 at 2:36 pm

    @Betty Cracker: Well knock me over with a feather! I didn’t click on the lick. How many thousands of words and dozens of updates did it take for him to get to the point?

  95. 95.

    Lizzy L

    July 28, 2016 at 2:37 pm

    @Mike J: One poll means nothing… But I immediately clicked over to 538, just to look. I hate you.

  96. 96.

    Miss Bianca

    July 28, 2016 at 2:37 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: Don Martin! DON MARTIN!!

    Captain Klutz forever!

  97. 97.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 28, 2016 at 2:37 pm

    @The Ancient Randonnuer: All of them, Katie.

  98. 98.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 28, 2016 at 2:38 pm

    @Miss Bianca: The FONEBONES!

  99. 99.

    Eljai

    July 28, 2016 at 2:38 pm

    I keep waiting for one of our esteemed anchormen and women to have a Walter Cronkite/Vietnam/ truth moment. Well, last night I was rewarded when one of them exhorted his viewers to support Hillary, saying “it’s embarrassing that this is even a contest.”

    “I know people will try and say, ‘No, no, no, it’s all about objectivity.’ Yes, It’s about objectivity. And any objective person can see that of the two options, one is not an option.”

    He shouted the last 5 words of the above quote. Okay, it was Trevor Noah on the Comedy channel and not, say, CNN, but it’s a start. I can’t do it justice, but if you get a chance, watch the first 10 minutes of Wednesday’s Daily Show – it’s worth it.

  100. 100.

    raven

    July 28, 2016 at 2:39 pm

    @Trollhattan: He was a Damn Good Dawg too!

  101. 101.

    Kay

    July 28, 2016 at 2:39 pm

    @BR:

    I can’t believe the media is that dumb as to uncriticially repeat this nonsense

    You would be wrong though.They’re getting the DNC emails and the Clinton server all mushed together and making it into one big web of vague “concern”. It’s already so convoluted no normal person will have any idea what the facts are. Something, something, emails, corruption….

    It reminds me of Whitewater. They threw so much shit some of it stuck.

  102. 102.

    SiubhanDuinne

    July 28, 2016 at 2:39 pm

    @Quinerly:

    According to a very quick pass through Google (reading headlines only, not the articles themselves), just in the last two or three days Wendi has apparently denied even knowing Putin, let alone being (or having been) in a relationship with him. But it would be terribly irresponsible not to speculate.

  103. 103.

    Betty Cracker

    July 28, 2016 at 2:39 pm

    @Cacti: He got really mad in the interview about the perception that Snowden doesn’t speak out against Putin. According to GG, he does all the time, and it’s super brave because without Putin’s good will, Snowden would be jailed for life. You can tell it’s a sore spot because he says “fuck” several times in that paragraph. His credibility is tied to Snowden’s, so GG needs him to be a selfless patriot.

  104. 104.

    SFAW

    July 28, 2016 at 2:40 pm

    @pseudonymous in nc:

    I don’t really mean “fall in line”. I mean “three stops a day”, sitting on a bus, crappy road food, the actual physical haul of campaigning. We can be pretty sure Kasich isn’t going to lift a finger in Ohio. Is Toomey going to stump on his behalf in PA?

    Let’s revisit this in November. I hope that I will be able to say, at that point, “you were right, I was worng.” But the ability of Rethugs to prostitute themselves in order to gain or retain power is near-limitless.

  105. 105.

    rp

    July 28, 2016 at 2:41 pm

    Who cares? The Rethugs spent 30 years working the refs, until it became de rigueur to trash the MSM

    This is a meaty story and the press is already interested. I bow to no man or woman in my hatred of the MSM, but I think this could have legs. Plus, with “serious GOP foreign policy types” already denouncing Trump, they have some cover for going after him on this.

  106. 106.

    Mnemosyne

    July 28, 2016 at 2:41 pm

    Does anyone have a post-Comey press conference story from a “neutral” (preferably right-leaning, like Business Insider or some such) source explaining why the email “scandal” is bullshit. I’m having a stupid argument with my cousin and I want to give her one last chance to be less dumb.

    (She’s in Waukesha, so it’s probably hopeless, but she’s family.)

  107. 107.

    Quinerly

    July 28, 2016 at 2:41 pm

    Trump surrogate on MSNBC sent out to deny Trump’s Putin/Russian connection is named “Boris.” He has quite a bit of an accent too. I kid you not.

  108. 108.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 28, 2016 at 2:41 pm

    @Kay: Fools for Scandal.

  109. 109.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 28, 2016 at 2:42 pm

    @Quinerly: What, no Natasha Fatale tag teaming with him? The Drumpf propaganda folks missed an opportunity there!

  110. 110.

    Chyron HR

    July 28, 2016 at 2:42 pm

    @Mike J:

    True progressives have been dispatched and will be here any minute to rend their garments at this terrible news.

    P.S. From the left.

  111. 111.

    Chris

    July 28, 2016 at 2:42 pm

    @SFAW:

    Yep. That is, to a large extent, what the “liberal media” lie was all about: ensuring that anything reported that favored liberals would be dismissed as suspect. Meanwhile, anything they report that favors conservatives can be ignored: it’s just the exception that proves the rule. Im fact, it’s even MORE reliable, because EVEN THE LIBERAL MEDIA admits it’s true!

  112. 112.

    Miss Bianca

    July 28, 2016 at 2:42 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: Yup, when I was a kid, “Fonebone” was on my list of Funniest Names Ever.

    @Quinerly: It’s when Moose and Squirrel show up that we really need to start wondering if they’re having us all on.

  113. 113.

    slag

    July 28, 2016 at 2:43 pm

    @BR: The problem is that even after you shatter the nugget in the center of the snowball that started the avalanche, you’re still left with a whole mountain of snow to dig out of. Better for the press to leave the nugget intact than force themselves to actually get out the shovel.

  114. 114.

    Kay

    July 28, 2016 at 2:44 pm

    I know you-all don’t care about polls, but I do. Not predictive, but descriptive.

    Come on PA. Don’t fall for this gross, privileged, racist fraud.

    Clinton up 9 in Pennsylvania, per Suffolk. Would be disastrous for Trump if true, given the timing and the state

  115. 115.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 28, 2016 at 2:45 pm

    @Betty Cracker: For a self styled “libertarian” GG sure sucks a lot of authoritarian dick.

  116. 116.

    SFAW

    July 28, 2016 at 2:45 pm

    @rp:

    Well, I hope you’re right, but recent history suggests otherwise.

  117. 117.

    Trollhattan

    July 28, 2016 at 2:46 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est:
    No, Boris to MSMBC, Natasha to Fox in skirt very short, comrade. Duh!

  118. 118.

    The Ancient Randonnuer

    July 28, 2016 at 2:47 pm

    @Mike J:

    One poll means nothing, good news or bad. One poll means nothing, good news or bad. One poll means nothing, good news or bad.

    Not even if I close my eyes, tap my heels together three times and think to myself, this poll predicts the outcome of the general election?

  119. 119.

    Quinerly

    July 28, 2016 at 2:48 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    First came on my radar in May through a foreign press piece saying she was vacationing on a yacht owned by a big wig Russian businessman who is close to Putin…that got tongues wagging then. Think Putin was seen on the yacht, too. I’m on my phone and it makes it almost impossible to add links here. I think if you Google “Putin Wendi Deng” you’ll get several articles. I will continue to speculate. I think of myself as very responsible?

  120. 120.

    Anoniminous

    July 28, 2016 at 2:49 pm

    @Eljai:

    I keep waiting for one of our esteemed anchormen and women to have a Walter Cronkite/Vietnam/ truth moment.

    Walter Cronkite was a mensch with a pair of big brass ones. He was one of eight journalists selected by the United States Army Air Forces to fly bombing raids over Germany in a B-17 Flying Fortress and during a mission fired a machine gun at a German fighter. He landed in a glider with the 101st Airborne in Operation Market Garden and covered the Battle of the Bulge.

    Today’s Infotainment Employees aren’t fit to clean his bathroom.

    ETA: FYWP glider.

  121. 121.

    Gin & Tonic

    July 28, 2016 at 2:49 pm

    @rp:

    Plus, with “serious GOP foreign policy types” already denouncing Trump,

    Link?

  122. 122.

    Trollhattan

    July 28, 2016 at 2:49 pm

    Erik, son of Erik, feels the Obamentum.

  123. 123.

    Cacti

    July 28, 2016 at 2:49 pm

    @rp:

    This is a meaty story and the press is already interested. I bow to no man or woman in my hatred of the MSM, but I think this could have legs. Plus, with “serious GOP foreign policy types” already denouncing Trump, they have some cover for going after him on this.

    All they have to ask is “where are your tax returns, Donald?”

    He hasn’t come up with a single plausible reason for withholding them.

  124. 124.

    sherparick

    July 28, 2016 at 2:50 pm

    @Kay: I watched PBS and MSNBC last night for about 5 minutes and then ran screaming from the room. You see, by bringing up the Russian hack and encouraging them to find “30.000” missing e-mails, the Trumpenfuhrer had won the day, the week, and likely the campaign because he has reminded every one of Hilary’s e-mails.

    Trump is not only tied to Putin financially, I think he sees Putin as a model of “leadership” that he wants to establish her in America. A white nationalist authoritarian regime under the personal control of him and his family. He would give Putin a running on becoming the richest man in the world.

  125. 125.

    Trollhattan

    July 28, 2016 at 2:50 pm

    @Anoniminous:
    It was quite a tell when Republicans sneered at Cronkite one last time on his death. He “lost Vietnam” donchano.

    This Trump thing has been percolating for decades.

  126. 126.

    catclub

    July 28, 2016 at 2:51 pm

    @Chris: I disagree. I keep pointing to this editorial by the WAPO that is extremely shrill.
    “Trump is a unique threat to democracy” That will influence coverage. I think the WAPO is going after him pretty much.

  127. 127.

    raven

    July 28, 2016 at 2:52 pm

    @sherparick:

    Trumpenfuhrer had won the day, the week, and likely the campaign because he has reminded every one of Hilary’s e-mails.

    right

  128. 128.

    The Ancient Randonnuer

    July 28, 2016 at 2:53 pm

    @Quinerly: So far the only thing I’ve seen is rumors posted in gossip columns. She has denied the rumors.

  129. 129.

    Miss Bianca

    July 28, 2016 at 2:55 pm

    @Trollhattan: from the comments: “honest question: How many prominent Rs will publicly endorse Trump, but actually vote for Clinton?”

    E, son of E: “More than you know.”

    Holy shit. Wonder if he’s going to be one of them!

  130. 130.

    Enhanced Voting Techinques

    July 28, 2016 at 2:55 pm

    I wouldn’t be surprised if the GOP servers were hacked too. It did seem like way to many of Trump’s rivals were way to afraid of him.

    And the story just broke this week, it going to take a while for it sink in because it’s so utterly absurd to think of a canidate for a major US political party being a Russian tool.

  131. 131.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 28, 2016 at 2:56 pm

    @Cacti: If he does, it will show he’s been commingling the corporate and the personal, and he’s worth significantly less than a billion. Try 350 million, tops.

  132. 132.

    catclub

    July 28, 2016 at 2:57 pm

    @Trollhattan:

    @EWErickson @JohnJHarwood Fox & AM radio have radicalized the GOP base & made them deeply pessimistic. Can the GOP change that?

    hoocoodanode?

  133. 133.

    Quinerly

    July 28, 2016 at 2:58 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est:
    The guy named Boris looked like Russian mob. Said he was a lawyer. Had a definite Slavic accent. Kept saying basically that the story the press was pushing was garbage. Really didn’t answer Tom Robert’s questions, though. Boris did try to tie the Clinton Foundation to Putin, though. Weirdest election ever. You can’t make this shit up.

  134. 134.

    FlipYrWhig

    July 28, 2016 at 2:58 pm

    @Kay:

    They’re getting the DNC emails and the Clinton server all mushed together

    I’ve noticed that too. It became like the second phase of the same story: “Now we’ve seen TWICE that Hillary Clinton is so careless with email that Russian hackers stole classified information.” Thanks for being so clear, James Comey.

  135. 135.

    catclub

    July 28, 2016 at 3:01 pm

    @FlipYrWhig: I read the NPR article linked in the second response. the 30K emails are personal stuff anyway,
    never mind that they have been recovered by the FBI.

  136. 136.

    TG Chicago

    July 28, 2016 at 3:02 pm

    Last night, Trump re-tweeted a grand total of two people.

    One was a staff member.

    The other was… can you guess?

    You got it on the first try! He’s a big ol’ racist!

    https://twitter.com/owillis/status/758517119789174785

  137. 137.

    FlipYrWhig

    July 28, 2016 at 3:03 pm

    @sherparick:

    because he has reminded every one of Hilary’s e-mails

    I still want someone who thinks “Hillary’s emails” is a big story to explain what precisely they think happened. Because it seems like we’re on a version whose resemblance to the truth is like a very late stage game of Telephone. “Hillary Clinton didn’t use the email setup James Comey thinks she should have” at some point morphed into something about classified information getting into the wrong hands and Hillary Clinton lying about it, I think.

  138. 138.

    Anoniminous

    July 28, 2016 at 3:03 pm

    @Trollhattan:

    The Infotainment Mediums whored themselves out when Ronnie Rayguns lied his way into office. In 1958 Edward R. Murrow told them what would happen if they didn’t get their stuff together. They didn’t. It did.

  139. 139.

    Mike E

    July 28, 2016 at 3:08 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: Jack Davis had a certain ebullient quality to his zaniness… I liked how he drew dogs

  140. 140.

    Trollhattan

    July 28, 2016 at 3:10 pm

    @catclub:
    “Enough about your cookie recipes, already!”
    /ArmwavingBernieRant

  141. 141.

    raven

    July 28, 2016 at 3:10 pm

    @Mike E: Dawgs

  142. 142.

    raven

    July 28, 2016 at 3:12 pm

    See where these fucking morons thought Kaine’s Blue Star lapel pin was a Honduran Flag He was wearing it for his son.

  143. 143.

    hovercraft

    July 28, 2016 at 3:12 pm

    @Jeffro:
    He was “fact checking” Michelle, and as a “student of history” he wanted to let everyone know that it was a combination of free men and slaves who built it, and to let everyone know that ‘those’ slaves were well treated. Because if they hadn’t been they would not have been productive. So apparently the fact that they were slaves can be glossed right over.
    Abigail Adams begs to differ.

    “The effects of Slavery are visible every where; and I have amused myself from day to day in looking at the labour of 12 negroes from my window, who are employd with four small Horse Carts to remove some dirt in front of the house. the four carts are all loaded at the same time, and whilst four carry this rubish about half a mile, the remaining eight rest upon their Shovels, Two of our hardy N England men would do as much work in a day as the whole 12, but it is true Republicanism that drive the Slaves half fed, and destitute of cloathing, or fit for [Mayfa]re, to labour, whilst the owner waches about Idle, tho his one Slave is all the property he can boast, Such is the case of many of the inhabitants of this place.”

  144. 144.

    Trollhattan

    July 28, 2016 at 3:13 pm

    @Anoniminous:
    Think you’re right. Nixon gave some of them spine implants by putting them on the “enemies list” but their reflexive disrespect for Carter made them suckers for Reagan’s Bullshit Mountain and it’s been status quo ever since.

  145. 145.

    slag

    July 28, 2016 at 3:13 pm

    @Trollhattan: I found this point interesting:

    putting it all together, Trump’s speech received lukewarm ratings, based on historical comparisons

    Especially after Kevin Drum intones concern about Trump’s post-convention bounce:

    Second, although liberals might have thought the Republican convention was a dumpster fire, it’s obvious that Trump’s message—even delivered in angry, apocalyptic tones—resonates with a lot of people.

    Personally, I’m of the mind that the press generates the bounce through the type of coverage they give despite Trump being comparatively underwhelming by most standards.

  146. 146.

    burnspbesq

    July 28, 2016 at 3:14 pm

    Did anyone other than Drum notice that Trump, who has called for a boycott of Apple, was photgraphed using a MacBook to participate in last night’s Reddit AMA?

  147. 147.

    Trollhattan

    July 28, 2016 at 3:15 pm

    @raven:
    Jesus wept. Wonder if “severe internal sanctions and mandatory retraining” means a kegger and a few “attaboys, you”l get him next time”?

  148. 148.

    Mike in NC

    July 28, 2016 at 3:16 pm

    Drumpf did an appearance in NC earlier this week which was attended by Governor McCrory and Senator Burr, because the one thing they love above all else is corporate tax cuts. Yoooouge and classy tax cuts for the wealthy.

  149. 149.

    Quinerly

    July 28, 2016 at 3:16 pm

    @The Ancient Randonnuer:
    If I was sleeping with Putin, I’d deny it too. Kidding aside, it might be an untrue rumor. The foreign press was having a lot of fun with it in the spring. Might as well face it, all these people are different from most…seems Chelsea Clinton and Ivanka Trump are long time friends. Some things I would never be able to get over and compartmentalize. As for Wendi and Vlad, let’s all continue to speculate. Should we move on to Melania now and where she came from? How she made a beeline into Trump’s life?

  150. 150.

    Paul T

    July 28, 2016 at 3:17 pm

    It cannot be just Trump. How many other politicians are taking money under the table from “foreign governments’ to under mine American democracy?

    I’m reading “Legacy of Ashes: The History of The CIA” , by Tim Weiner. Filled with page after page of American agents dropping off bushels of cash in dozens of countries to thousands of politicians to ensure their “loyalty” to the USA, and influence world events. This would be exactly the game the Russians are playing. Find a weak political party that you can bend to your world view, helicopter in the money, wait until the weak party confuses and grabs just enough power.

    It can’t be just Trump.

  151. 151.

    Fair Economist

    July 28, 2016 at 3:17 pm

    @Kay: The problem with any poll is that this is a base election, not a choice election, and the result depends on turnout. And, between Trump and the relentless work to slime Hillary, one of the most honest politicians around, as “dishonest”, historical turnout models are nearly worthless. We really won’t know until Election Night.

  152. 152.

    hitchhiker

    July 28, 2016 at 3:17 pm

    Thanks very much for “litigious deadbeat.” That should be his permanent hashtag.

    Or maybe a new fake DJT twitter account: litigiousdeadbeatdonaldtrump

  153. 153.

    raven

    July 28, 2016 at 3:18 pm

    @Fair Economist: What a bold prediction. No wonder it’s called the dismal science.

  154. 154.

    catclub

    July 28, 2016 at 3:19 pm

    @burnspbesq: Kevin Drum regularly asks if Trump has allowed open carry at all his golf resorts, as he claimed he would do. Also tax forms, also something else that escapes me for the moment.

  155. 155.

    catclub

    July 28, 2016 at 3:21 pm

    @Fair Economist:

    and the result depends on turnout.

    This should definitely favor the side with a GOTV operation, staffed with more than one person per state.

  156. 156.

    Central Planning

    July 28, 2016 at 3:21 pm

    @Lizzy L: try the Princeton Election Consortium. You’ll be happier.

  157. 157.

    Gin & Tonic

    July 28, 2016 at 3:22 pm

    @raven: Zing!

  158. 158.

    Fair Economist

    July 28, 2016 at 3:23 pm

    @Miss Bianca:

    from the comments: “honest question: How many prominent Rs will publicly endorse Trump, but actually vote for Clinton?”

    E, son of E: “More than you know.”

    Holy shit. Wonder if he’s going to be one of them!

    A lot of prominent Rs will probably vote Clinton in the booth, but their private recalcitrance won’t affect the general R voters and there are not a lot of prominent Republicans for their individual votes to matter much.

    As to whether an individual will vote for Clinton, I’d expect them to vote strategically. In swing states they’ll vote Clinton; otherwise they’ll vote Johnson. We’ll never know, anyway.

  159. 159.

    FlipYrWhig

    July 28, 2016 at 3:24 pm

    @raven: Also, to win this game they’re going to have to outscore the other team.

  160. 160.

    Greg

    July 28, 2016 at 3:25 pm

    @raven:

    But if they felt it was a pin of the Ecauardoran flag that is all that matters.

  161. 161.

    Quinerly

    July 28, 2016 at 3:26 pm

    @raven:
    The flag thing cracks me up. I noticed that it wasn’t a flag pin last night and commented that there would be a ruckus today. The Daily Caller has been posting daily about the lack of flags on stage and in the hall (I guess he didn’t notice Meryl Streep’s beautiful designer flag dress..Vanity Fair has a fun piece on it). I think they have missed the real scandal…Kaine during his rollout on Saturday had a lovely small lapel pin on…it was red,white, and blue AND looked to me to be Hillary “H” logo.

  162. 162.

    Dadadadadadada

    July 28, 2016 at 3:27 pm

    @FlipYrWhig: Bill Clinton himself said it best, way back in 2008: When asked for the key to defeating Hillary in a presidential race, he said “Get more votes.” Worked for Obama, will not work for Trump.

  163. 163.

    raven

    July 28, 2016 at 3:27 pm

    @Fair Economist: You should have replaced Carson on Carnac the Magnificent!

  164. 164.

    Dadadadadadada

    July 28, 2016 at 3:28 pm

    @Quinerly: I think they really believe that the better party is the one with the most flags. Like, the secret to being a great president? Lots of flags. More than anyone else. As if that’s the difference between Lincoln and Buchanan.

  165. 165.

    raven

    July 28, 2016 at 3:28 pm

    @Quinerly: I could see how they would make that mistake since he speaks Mexican!

  166. 166.

    Quinerly

    July 28, 2016 at 3:29 pm

    @Greg:
    I believe they thought it was Honduran. I mean after all, Kaine was speaking”Honduran.”?

  167. 167.

    Jeffro

    July 28, 2016 at 3:30 pm

    @hovercraft:

    He was “fact checking” Michelle, and as a “student of history” he wanted to let everyone know that it was a combination of free men and slaves who built it, and to let everyone know that ‘those’ slaves were well treated. Because if they hadn’t been they would not have been productive. So apparently the fact that they were slaves can be glossed right over.

    Typical BillO (and thanks for the Abigail Adams quote).

    They just can’t let the defensiveness go and they just don’t get it: if there was even one slave, that’s one too many and a crime. Fed, clothed, housed – doesn’t matter, it’s still a crime. I think they just don’t even want to ‘go there’ in acknowledging the horrors of slavery because that might lead to something like…feelings…possibly even regret(!)…over part of our nation’s history.

  168. 168.

    Quinerly

    July 28, 2016 at 3:30 pm

    @raven:
    Which is similar in dialect to Honduran.

  169. 169.

    raven

    July 28, 2016 at 3:31 pm

    @Quinerly: Double Zing!

  170. 170.

    RaflW

    July 28, 2016 at 3:32 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: So Ask Me Anything isn’t actually that at all? Call me ultra-shocked.

  171. 171.

    dogwood

    July 28, 2016 at 3:32 pm

    @Trollhattan:
    A couple of days ago Redstate published a 2000 National Review article by WFB. Essentially the thesis is demagogues as the most lethal threat to democracy. Who might they be? Look for the narcissists. Who might that be in 2000? Donald Trump. How could he win? He is rich and can make America rich. It’s amazingly prescient.

  172. 172.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    July 28, 2016 at 3:32 pm

    Heard his dimwit “representative” on the radio yesterday. Bone from his brow to his spine. But his reactions were very telling, alternating between:

    1. Belligerently defensive
    2. Terrified and trying very badly to hide it.

    This could fuck his campaign but good and everyone but Trump knows it.

  173. 173.

    Gin & Tonic

    July 28, 2016 at 3:34 pm

    @RaflW: Here’s one report on it.

  174. 174.

    daverave

    July 28, 2016 at 3:35 pm

    @Anoniminous:

    Mr Cronkite was the commencement speaker at my college graduation back in ’76.

  175. 175.

    Dread

    July 28, 2016 at 3:35 pm

    You ever get the feeling that Trump wants to be president so he can eventually pardon himself when the shit starts to hit the fan?

  176. 176.

    ruemara

    July 28, 2016 at 3:36 pm

    @JPL: yes. The hack was DNC & The State.

  177. 177.

    D58826

    July 28, 2016 at 3:38 pm

    @kindness: and the 30k e-mails are different than the dnc hack e-mails even though ‘old little hands’ and his mouth pieces are conflating the two.

  178. 178.

    D58826

    July 28, 2016 at 3:39 pm

    MSNBC is reporting the Bernie deadenders are planning some kind of disruption tonight

  179. 179.

    catclub

    July 28, 2016 at 3:40 pm

    I just want to point out that Mike Bloomberg said something about ‘we sure wish we could have a businessman as president’ [just not this Trump guy],
    but did not mention the last guy with an MBA who was elected President and wanted to run government like a business.

  180. 180.

    Chyron HR

    July 28, 2016 at 3:43 pm

    @D58826:

    MSNBC is reporting that the Earth’s atmosphere is planning to be primarily nitrogen and oxygen tonight.

  181. 181.

    Emma

    July 28, 2016 at 3:43 pm

    @D58826: The Plague of Saint Bernard. Damn them.

  182. 182.

    Comrade Scrutinizer

    July 28, 2016 at 3:43 pm

    @Jeffro: “The Half Has Never Been Told: Slavery and the Making of American Capitalism” by Edward Baptist. An excellent book: do read it. It settles O’Reilly’s hash on the slavery issue.

  183. 183.

    Poopyman

    July 28, 2016 at 3:44 pm

    PHILADELPHIA – The wealthy Democratic donors, many of them executives who run complex businesses, know firsthand how revealing tax returns can be. Perhaps that’s why they can’t stop talking about Republican nominee Donald Trump’s refusal to release his.

    In their suites at the Ritz Carlton hotel, where many are staying during this week’s Democratic convention, and at its auxiliary swanky parties, the supporters of Hillary Clinton are sounding the alarm about Trump’s break with decades of presidential campaign tradition.

    Clinton put out eight years of recent tax filings last summer, and they lament that voters don’t seem to understand why Trump’s refusal to do the same matters.

    Democratic talk of the taxes spilled onto the convention stage Wednesday night. Vice presidential candidate Tim Kaine, mocking Trump, said, “Believe me, there’s nothing suspicious in my tax returns. Believe me!” The crowd laughed.

    There’s even a literally a bounty for the Trump documents.

    Moishe Mana, a top fundraiser for Clinton, has offered to give $1 million to the charity of Trump’s choice if he makes them public. He joins an unnamed Republican donor working with Clinton ally David Brock who has made a similar offer of $5 million.

  184. 184.

    Technocrat

    July 28, 2016 at 3:44 pm

    @D58826:

    I’m really worried about that. Sufficient booing kills a speech, no matter who’s giving it.

  185. 185.

    Mnemosyne

    July 28, 2016 at 3:48 pm

    @catclub:

    I’m pretty sure Bloomberg and other actual businessmen didn’t consider W to be one of them, either. As Bloomberg very pointedly said, his daddy didn’t hand him a million-dollar check to start his business — he did it himself.

    That would go double for failed businessman W, who exploited his family connections all the way to the White House.

    ETA: Also, IIRC, we found out recently that Trump doesn’t even have an MBA — the vaunted “Wharton” education on his resume turned out to be a few real estate seminars.

  186. 186.

    SiubhanDuinne

    July 28, 2016 at 3:49 pm

    @Fair Economist:

    A lot of prominent Rs will probably vote Clinton in the booth, but their private recalcitrance won’t affect the general R voters and there are not a lot of prominent Republicans for their individual votes to matter much.

    I was just listening to MSNBC in the car, and they had on a lifelong Republican who has voted for every R candidate since 1976 but is voting — fairly cheerfully, it seems — for Hillary this time around. I didn’t catch his name (there was a lot of noise in the background, sirens and horns, which drowned out the announcer saying who the guy was), and I have no idea whether he’s a “prominent” Republican or just some schlub, but he didn’t sound at all like the expected “I guess I’ll just have to hold my nose and pull the Hillary lever.” He was quite articulate in hoping that many of his fellow Rs would come to the same decision. It may have started anti-Trump, but he came across to me as affirmatively pro-HRC. Let’s hope there are more like him out there, and that they speak up.

  187. 187.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 28, 2016 at 3:49 pm

    @daverave: I envy you no end. Fantastic!

  188. 188.

    Comrade Scrutinizer

    July 28, 2016 at 3:50 pm

    @D58826:

    MSNBC is reporting the Bernie deadenders are planning some kind of disruption tonight

    Given their coverage of the BoBs during the convention, I wouldn’t be surprised if they were inciting it.

  189. 189.

    Quinerly

    July 28, 2016 at 3:50 pm

    @D58826:
    If you get a chance, pull up the Daily Mail piece on “Bern stock.” Self described Bernie “disciples” camping in the park illegally. The city is providing them water…the camp is vegetarian…and they have combined the Bernie disciples with the PENIS folks (People Encouraging Niceness in Society). The piece didn’t mention the Fart In that’s happening today nor that little Bern Feeler who is on a hunger strike until Bernie”wins.”

  190. 190.

    D58826

    July 28, 2016 at 3:50 pm

    @Chyron HR: Yes but argon has been denied the right to speak

  191. 191.

    Lizzy L

    July 28, 2016 at 3:52 pm

    @Central Planning: Sam Wang. I went there too, and yeah, I was happier. Gonna be a long three months. OTOH, I made a contribution to Hillary’s Victory Fund this morning. Gonna buy some stickers, pins, whatever, next week. Get a yard sign.

  192. 192.

    Quinerly

    July 28, 2016 at 3:52 pm

    What! Moderation? No links. Just a post to reply to the guy who asked about the Bernie Deadenders…it was about “Bern stock” and the Daily Mail.

  193. 193.

    Haydnseek

    July 28, 2016 at 3:53 pm

    @Miss Bianca: Wallace Wood. Pure genius.

  194. 194.

    JPL

    July 28, 2016 at 3:54 pm

    Josh Barro tweeted this..

    As I’ve been saying, for so many of us, this election presents a depressing choice, but not a difficult one.

  195. 195.

    Gin & Tonic

    July 28, 2016 at 3:54 pm

    @Mnemosyne: In fairness to Trump (I can’t believe I wrote that) he never actually claimed to have an MBA, and he did graduate from UPenn, where Wharton does run the undergrad department of business as well as the much better-known MBA program.

    Of course, he wasn’t admitted to UPenn as a freshman, he went to Fordham University (not nearly as selective) for two years then transferred in, presumably on the strength of money and/or connections that his father pulled.

  196. 196.

    Quinerly

    July 28, 2016 at 3:54 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    He worked in the Reagan White House,too. Said Clinton was the most qualified candidate EVER.

  197. 197.

    Mnemosyne

    July 28, 2016 at 3:55 pm

    @Technocrat:

    I really felt like Obama managed to take the wind out of their sails last night with some well-chosen words. I’m actually kind of okay with them trying a stunt during Hillary’s speech, because she’s almost certainly going to need to handle BoB hecklers on the road, so may as well get some practice now.

    I mostly get irritated when they heckle the undercard who aren’t as experienced speakers. Though I thought the rear admiral (retired) handled it just right by taking a moment to listen and then shrugging them off with, “I can’t tell what they’re saying.”

  198. 198.

    Anoniminous

    July 28, 2016 at 3:55 pm

    @daverave:

    That’s pretty cool.

  199. 199.

    Gin & Tonic

    July 28, 2016 at 3:55 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: Which, of course, proves that she is a sellout, a Dem-lite, and we should have lined up behind St. Bernard the Pure.

  200. 200.

    ruemara

    July 28, 2016 at 3:56 pm

    @Comrade Scrutinizer: er, this. At some point, can’t their egos be satisfied?

    To get on topic, when I look at Donald, I see the choices made from people who’ve learned to take peace and relative prosperity for granted. I guess when you’re too far removed from the reality and consequences of true, large war, your selfish tendencies coalesce into an evil demagogue. I’m happy to believe he doesn’t have enough people blinded, tho.

  201. 201.

    Haydnseek

    July 28, 2016 at 3:57 pm

    @Quinerly: When can we start referring to Trump and Putin as “Moose and Squirrel?”

  202. 202.

    D58826

    July 28, 2016 at 3:57 pm

    @Fair Economist:

    but their private recalcitrance won’t affect the general R voters and there are not a lot of prominent Republicans for their individual votes to matter much.

    It’s not so much that they have that many votes or will swing that many others but they have made a career of telling the rest of us about Country over party. They were also the same ones who came out and said the democrats should put country over party during the Monica scandal. It’s time for them to stand up and publicly put their vote where their mouth is.

  203. 203.

    Mnemosyne

    July 28, 2016 at 3:58 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Hmmm. I thought he had inflated his resume at some point, but maybe it was only his online followers.

  204. 204.

    SiubhanDuinne

    July 28, 2016 at 3:58 pm

    @Quinerly:

    Do you know who it was? I missed that he worked for Reagan but did hear him say that about Hillary.

  205. 205.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 28, 2016 at 4:00 pm

    @Mnemosyne: Wharton does have an undergrad program. Trump transferred into it after two years at Fordham.

    ETA: Or what G&T said.

  206. 206.

    Technocrat

    July 28, 2016 at 4:02 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    Good point about needing to learn to handle hecklers. Sad as that sounds, it’s probably going to be an issue for the next (hopefully) 8 years.

    Thank you. My pearls are slightly less tightly-clutched.

  207. 207.

    Booger

    July 28, 2016 at 4:02 pm

    @oldgold: Penultimate, meaning ‘next to last’ or ‘second from the end?’

  208. 208.

    Mnemosyne

    July 28, 2016 at 4:03 pm

    @ruemara:

    I think the entire night of speeches last night is going to help A LOT. I’m really liking Kaine more and more the more I see him. He’s gonna drive Trump and the Trumpites even MORE batshit because he’s one of “theirs” (devoutly religious, hetero married, military family) but he’s working with us (comfortable with African-Americans, fluent in Spanish, has no trouble having a woman as his boss).

    He is basically walking, talking proof that when Trump says the only place for a straight white man is the Republican Party, he’s lying. Again.

  209. 209.

    tobie

    July 28, 2016 at 4:03 pm

    @Mnemosyne: You know when even Chomsky comes out against the BernieorBusters, you’d think they’d call it a day. Or is he a sellout now too?

  210. 210.

    Quinerly

    July 28, 2016 at 4:04 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    I’m trying to find his name. They have a life long Republican speaking tonight, I think. Maybe it’s him. Sounds like he has been very vocal in his HRC support. Said he had gotten I think a thousand emails since he “came out.”

  211. 211.

    jl

    July 28, 2016 at 4:07 pm

    Trump is very dangerous, but I don’t think trying to walk back outrageous and dangerous statements that even low info voters can recognize as outrageous and dangerous as jokes is a very good recovery.

    I think the Dems got such notable and effective, and often each one in its own unique way very moving, speeches out of such a diverse bunch as Warren, Sanders, Bill, Biden, Kaine and Obama because they followed their own individual voices and strengths. Hope HRC does the same tonight..

  212. 212.

    Schlemazel Khan

    July 28, 2016 at 4:08 pm

    @Haydnseek:
    Neither is clever enough for those roles – they are Natasha and Fearless Leader (Drumpf/Putin)

  213. 213.

    Quinerly

    July 28, 2016 at 4:08 pm

    @Haydnseek:
    I’m ready now. Let’s do it.?

  214. 214.

    Trentrunner

    July 28, 2016 at 4:08 pm

    So following Giordano on Twitter, it looks like the Berniebros are plotting to disrupt Hillary’s acceptance speech with the usual chants and heckling.

  215. 215.

    dogwood

    July 28, 2016 at 4:08 pm

    @D58826:
    Of course they are. That’s why they’re there. They are within their right to do this. For three days the rest of us have to sit on pins and needles hoping they don’t ruin this. They have been treated civilly by the thousands of delegates on the floor who want to hear these speeches. Every speaker at the podium who they jeered and heckled responded with grace and poise. They are essentially moral midgets. Crass, unkind, disrespectful people who believe their leftist ideology makes them morally superior. If Bernie had any balls this week, he would have done something about having their credentials revoked. He would have rushed to the cameras as fast as they did to denounce them. He would have gone on the cable shows to disavow this. But he’s having a good time in the VIP seats watching all this go down.

  216. 216.

    slag

    July 28, 2016 at 4:08 pm

    @tobie:

    The basic moral principle at stake is simple: not only must we take responsibility for our actions, but the consequences of our actions for others are a far more important consideration than feeling good about ourselves.

    Deaf ears, Noam, deaf ears.

  217. 217.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 28, 2016 at 4:08 pm

    Tobie @ 206: Yes, the Berniebros consider him a sellout, too. They of course did not bother to read the final point of the eight points, which is by not voting for the “lesser evil” they are undermining their own goals.

  218. 218.

    Anoniminous

    July 28, 2016 at 4:09 pm

    @ruemara:

    Known the BoB dead ender type since 1967. And the answer is no, it’s all about them – forever & ever, amen.

  219. 219.

    ruemara

    July 28, 2016 at 4:14 pm

    @Mnemosyne: I dunno. I’m now convinced we’re not catering to those poor white males. I’m burning Bud light cans & Dockers pants in protest. Free the white guys!

  220. 220.

    jl

    July 28, 2016 at 4:16 pm

    And I just heard on the news that Trump still says Putin is a better leader than Obama. After that great speech Obama gave last night, that millions of people watched all across the country. That was part of his goof ass sad walk-back of his dangerous and irresponsible comments on NATO and DNC hack as jokes and sarcasm.

    Keep it up Donny, go right ahead. One step forward and two steps back. Keep it up. We need more good efforts from you like this all the way to November. Thanks, loser.

  221. 221.

    Mnemosyne

    July 28, 2016 at 4:16 pm

    @Trentrunner:

    Like I said above, I’m actually okay with them trying to disrupt Hillary. In fact, I kinda wish a motherfucker would. She can handle it.

    Now, if they try to heckle Chelsea, they need to be thrown out on their fucking ears.

  222. 222.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 28, 2016 at 4:19 pm

    @jl: Well, Putin is not blah.

    Case closed.

  223. 223.

    Quinerly

    July 28, 2016 at 4:20 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est:
    I ran into what I feel is the worse of the worst Bernie supporter today on FB today. A mid 40 something white female accountant with three bi racial children. Strong Obama supporter (worked on both campaigns). Has been very active in local Dem fundraising. Was crazy about Bernie. Now she wants Trump to win to prove a point (plus “HRC is almost as bad as Trump”). She’s voting Stein and will work for Stein. (FB acquaintance has her principles, she said). That’s some mixed up mess. And oh, she ranted and raved about the Kaine selection and his own personal convictions about abortion so he isn’t sufficiently Pro Choice. When I pointed out his 100% rating from NARAL and PP, crickets.

  224. 224.

    The Ancient Randonnuer

    July 28, 2016 at 4:22 pm

    @ruemara:

    I’m now convinced we’re not catering to those poor white males. I’m burning Bud light cans & Dockers pants in protest. Free the white guys!

    Our voice has only be heard since Europeans first landed on this continent. It’s not fair that we have to slide over a bit so others can be heard. Oh, an you can have the Bud Light cans and Dockers but you’ll have to pry my dudebro shirt from my cold dead hand!

  225. 225.

    D58826

    July 28, 2016 at 4:22 pm

    Well the NYT is at it again on tyhe Clintons.

    fter Lying Low, Deep-Pocketed Clinton Donors Return to the Fore

    The article goes on to list all of the folks who have donated to Hillary’s campaign and the perks they are getting in Phila. I don’t doubt the truth of the article but they make it sound like no other candidate has deep pocketed supporters who get wine and dined and expect maybe an ambassadorship. Remember Jeb! was the favorite because of his access to the Bush donor network? But that was a republican so I guess its ok.
    Yea I know Bernie raised a ton of money 27 dollars at a time but whither he could have financed a fully national campaign that way is another question. But since its the Clinton’s it m,ust be corrupt.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/29/us/politics/hillary-clinton-donors.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=a-lede-package-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

  226. 226.

    ruemara

    July 28, 2016 at 4:27 pm

    @The Ancient Randonnuer: I wasn’t surprised what the appropriate offerings were, so I went with what I see on the tv.

    Apologies.

  227. 227.

    FlipYrWhig

    July 28, 2016 at 4:29 pm

    @efgoldman:

    Argon is inert

    THATS WHAT THE ESTABLISHMENT WANTS YOU TO THINK!

  228. 228.

    FlipYrWhig

    July 28, 2016 at 4:33 pm

    @Quinerly: Anyone who shows any interest in Jill Stein is a clown. She’s a nobody who’s done nothing and knows nothing. She’s an undistinguished member of a multi-member town council. That makes her less qualified than Sarah Palin if Sarah Palin had never been elected governor. I mean for fuck’s sake, have a little self-respect.

  229. 229.

    tobie

    July 28, 2016 at 4:41 pm

    @Quinerly: Any psychologists out there to explain this kind of devotion? It’s not a political sentiment. It’s what you’d expect to find among cultists. This is why it’s impossible to respond to it with political arguments. They won’t address the wound, whatever it is.

  230. 230.

    George Spiggott

    July 28, 2016 at 4:58 pm

    @tobie:

    They’re the low hanging fruitcakes that used to be easy pickings for this guy.

  231. 231.

    Quinerly

    July 28, 2016 at 5:01 pm

    @FlipYrWhig: @tobie:
    I don’t know her that well. Try to keep my FB circle small. She got in my circle during the Obama reelection campaign. Highly educated, tax accountant. Denounced her Mormon upbringing. I guess there’s a lot to unpack here. Just hates HRC with a passion that I have never seen for someone her age and with a background in party politics. It’s like it is personal. Maybe it goes back to 2008. I didn’t know her then.

  232. 232.

    FlipYrWhig

    July 28, 2016 at 5:04 pm

    @George Spiggott: It’s kind of taking the LaRouchies (it’s all a conspiracy!) and mashing it up with Jonestown (let’s all be brothers and lovers and no one can leave).

  233. 233.

    FlipYrWhig

    July 28, 2016 at 5:07 pm

    @Quinerly: I truly don’t get how people move from “meh” to pure hatred when it comes to Hillary Clinton. I’ve become a bigger fan this time around, and I started out with her in 2008, but it seems like AT WORST she’s Al Gore or Michael Dukakis. Nobody hated Al Gore or Michael Dukakis, they were just disappointed in them or not inspired by them. Fine. But where does the hate come from? It makes no sense. It really is cultish and I don’t get it at all.

  234. 234.

    SFAW

    July 28, 2016 at 5:24 pm

    @FlipYrWhig:

    She’s a nobody who’s done nothing and knows nothing.

    Ah, but she’s done it so well.

  235. 235.

    Comrade Scrutinizer

    July 28, 2016 at 5:25 pm

    @efgoldman: Oh, hell no. I suspect many of them would be more than happy to re-establish the Peculiar Institution. (We had so many inoffensive euphemisms, once upon a time.)

  236. 236.

    EthylEster

    July 28, 2016 at 5:27 pm

    @scav: tire rims IIRC ;=)

    edit….
    i see SFAW got there before me.
    an epic JC rant which was NOT full of f-bombs.

  237. 237.

    SFAW

    July 28, 2016 at 5:32 pm

    @FlipYrWhig:

    but it seems like AT WORST she’s Al Gore

    But Al Gore was JUST THE SAME AS BUSH!!!!1!!2! And he was the running mate of the husband of History’s Greatest Monster!

    [I’m not sure why I hate Naderites so much (the 2000 vintage and maybe the 2016 Boobjolais Nouveau vintage). Perhaps I will hate them a little less, if Hillary wins.

    Nah, fuck that. They deserve to be drop-shipped to Rodina, see how much their vote counts there.]

  238. 238.

    SFAW

    July 28, 2016 at 5:34 pm

    @EthylEster:

    i see SFAW got there before me.

    That’s only because you’re a productive member of society. We moochers have plenty of time to pick nits.

  239. 239.

    FlipYrWhig

    July 28, 2016 at 5:35 pm

    @SFAW: I don’t remember Naderites _hating_ Gore, though, just thinking that he sucked. But there are more than a few hardcore Bernie Sanders people who go beyond thinking that Hillary sucks and believe her to be an absolute monster.

  240. 240.

    dogwood

    July 28, 2016 at 5:36 pm

    @JPL:
    Do people like Barro have picture perfect lives? I’ve had a great life, yet there have been time when I’ve had real life things to be depressed and worried about. Feeling depressed about my choices in a presidential election doesn’t even make my list. I feel pretty confident that we’ll be fine come November, but if Trump were to win, I’m going to do my best to not become some obsessive anti-Trumpist who’s cycling through various levels of anger, fear and depression over and over. I just don’t want him controlling me. I have a group of dear friends, all democrats, who talk politics quite often. During the Bush years we had to stop bringing up politics or switch the subject when one of the women brought it up because she just couldn’t get W out of her head. She’d go on and on about even insignificant transgressions. I’m not gonna let Trump do that to me.

  241. 241.

    SFAW

    July 28, 2016 at 5:39 pm

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Yeah, you’re right.

    Let’s hope they’re not dickheads tonight.

  242. 242.

    hilts

    July 28, 2016 at 5:44 pm

    Donald Trump is a shameless totalitarian doofus.

  243. 243.

    Grumpy Code Monkey

    July 28, 2016 at 6:00 pm

    I asked this question of Adam, but he hasn’t responded yet (not like he needs to waste time with it):

    Is my tin foil hat on too tight?

    Several things clicked into place for me the other day, and I’m now freaked out to a level I haven’t experienced since I was a teenager. The Wikileaks dump of the DNC emails brought several things into sharp relief:

    1. Snowden did not leak those secrets out of a sense of idealism or justice. He was either paid to do it by, or out of sympathy for, Russia and Putin. Boy is at best a defector and is still acting in Russia’s interests. He is not, and never was, a fucking hero, and for anyone tempted to defend his actions to me, just put me in your pie filter now. I will go off on you, and it won’t be pretty.

    2. Snowden was probably not Putin’s first move in a cyber cold war with the US (Romney was right, people). This has likely been going on for the better part of a decade, if not longer. Greenwald has been a useful idiot for Putin.

    3. Putin doesn’t want our secrets to gain an intelligence edge, at least not as the primary reason; he wants to sow distrust in the US government, both among our allies and the American people. Exposing American intel and secret communications is the best way to do that. He wants us so distracted with our own internal freakout that we won’t have the wherewithal to keep him from getting the band back together.

    4. Assange and Wikileaks are either sympathizers or outright puppets acting in Russia’s geopolitical interests. There will be an October Surprise dump, specifically designed to convince the US to not vote for Hillary. Not to mention hacks of evoting systems in a few key states. Regardless of whether Trump wins or not, nobody will trust the results. Russia will have hacked the very nature of our democracy.

    I’m feeling the paranoia from the bad bad old days, like Nixon-Brezhnev days. I am ready to stock up on MREs and dive down a fraidy hole for the next decade. Something really bad has been happening, and we are only just now realizing it, and it’s too late.

    Obama needs to go to Congress and demand (not ask, demand) funding and authorization for a top-to-bottom revamp of our government IT infrastructure ASAP. It won’t be done in time to prevent the shitstorm that’s coming, but it has to be done.

  244. 244.

    rawhide rawlins

    July 28, 2016 at 8:48 pm

    What’s up with THe Donald’s hair. A couple weeks ago it was Orange. Now it looks like “Statesman Silver” out of the bottle.

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