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You are here: Home / Politics / Activist Judges! / Open Thread: Stop Mewling, Hugh

Open Thread: Stop Mewling, Hugh

by Anne Laurie|  July 31, 20169:23 pm| 235 Comments

This post is in: Activist Judges!, Election 2016, Hail to the Hairpiece, Open Threads, Republican Venality, Republicans in Disarray!

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Shorter Hugh: "He's not really a racist, and Pence and his kids will keep an eye on him." No sale. #NeverTrump https://t.co/SMTK6Zm4Hm

— Tom Nichols (@RadioFreeTom) July 31, 2016

You were right there moderating debates, and you couldn’t keep Trump from beating every other GOP candidate…

.@hughhewitt to Republicans: "Put down your #NeverTrump pride and start working to save the Supreme Court." https://t.co/Wuscte1f7D

— Sahil Kapur (@sahilkapur) July 31, 2016

Flipside of @hughhewitt's argument: numerous conservative legal scholars don't trust Trump to pick good justices. https://t.co/5c950cYk1g

— Sahil Kapur (@sahilkapur) July 31, 2016

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Previous Post: « Open Thread: Mirror Images (But Trump’s Is A Funhouse Mirror)
Next Post: Open Thread: The Hits Keep Coming!… »

Reader Interactions

235Comments

  1. 1.

    RaflW

    July 31, 2016 at 9:26 pm

    What? Hewitt is an amoral crapdoodle? Whocouldaknowed.

  2. 2.

    SFAW

    July 31, 2016 at 9:29 pm

    @RaflW:

    Hewitt is an amoral crapdoodle?

    Or perhaps a lesser shitgibbon?

  3. 3.

    Adam L Silverman

    July 31, 2016 at 9:30 pm

    The Breitbrats are, apparently, going after Professor Nichols and trying to get the Naval War College to terminate him. They’re claiming a Hatch Act violation. So anyone on twitter, who appreciates that Professor Nichols has the courage of his convictions regardless of whether you agree with his overall political views, may want to have his back on twitter.

  4. 4.

    Chyron HR

    July 31, 2016 at 9:31 pm

    What makes them think Putin’s supreme court justices will give a shit about abortion?

  5. 5.

    rikyrah

    July 31, 2016 at 9:32 pm

    Melissa McEwan ‏@Shakestweetz 6h6 hours ago

    It’s not just that @realDonaldTrump is a deeply unkind person. It’s that he publicly rolls around in his own unkindness like a pig in a shit

  6. 6.

    MomSense

    July 31, 2016 at 9:32 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Do you know his Twitter ID?

  7. 7.

    rikyrah

    July 31, 2016 at 9:33 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Who is Professor Nichols

  8. 8.

    SFAW

    July 31, 2016 at 9:34 pm

    I really wish those of Hewitt’s ilk and demographic makeup would suffer some of the same consequences that the less-advantaged have felt from Scalia-promulgated decisions. I would hope — pointless, I know — that the lesser shitgibbon would have an epiphany, and say “Oh shit, I had no idea how bad that/those decision(s) was/were.” Of course, since such an epiphany is unlikely from any right-winger, then it provides an opportunity to say to him (and those like him) “Too fucking bad for you, you amoral, hateful prick. Maybe Deadbeat Donnie will fix things for you.”

  9. 9.

    SFAW

    July 31, 2016 at 9:35 pm

    @MomSense:

    Might be RadioFreeTom

  10. 10.

    NorthLeft12

    July 31, 2016 at 9:35 pm

    Unfortunately, Hewitt is not unique among his fellow right wingers. They are very happy to overlook all of Trump’s incompetence and loathsome character issues, because he wears the R label.

    Its what they are.

  11. 11.

    Major Major Major Major

    July 31, 2016 at 9:35 pm

    When you think about it, it’s kind of impressive our citizens know anything that’s true.

  12. 12.

    MomSense

    July 31, 2016 at 9:37 pm

    @SFAW:

    Thanks

  13. 13.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    July 31, 2016 at 9:37 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Nichols is quite conservative, isn’t he? No fan of Obama or Clinton?

    MSNBC gave Hewitt 9 solo, unchallenged minutes today (valued commenter Hovercraft, IIRC, found the time) to dishonestly conflate Comey’s report and Benghazi and harp on a Benghazi widow who has made an anti-Clinton ad. Alex Witt either had no clue what was going on, or understands that she wasn’t supposed to notice.

  14. 14.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 31, 2016 at 9:38 pm

    One has to recall that Hugh Hewitt was as much on the front lines of the war in Iraq from his office in the Empire State Building as CPT Humayun Khan was just to the north of Baghdad.

  15. 15.

    SFAW

    July 31, 2016 at 9:38 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

    When you think about it, it’s kind of impressive our citizens know anything that’s true.

    It’s not the citizens that are the problem. It’s the anti-American right-wing Fox viewers that don’t know anything. If they had to take the same citizenship test that immigrants have to take, they’d likely fail.

  16. 16.

    Suzanne

    July 31, 2016 at 9:41 pm

    Mmmmm. I am salivating at the prospect of drinking and bathing in all the Wingnut Tears in November.

    Drink up, there’s plenty more.

  17. 17.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 31, 2016 at 9:43 pm

    @Suzanne: Aren’t they as toxic as the water in Flint, MI?

  18. 18.

    Schlemazel

    July 31, 2016 at 9:45 pm

    @RaflW:
    Huge Fuckwit

  19. 19.

    redshirt

    July 31, 2016 at 9:45 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: They cleanse the body of free radicals aka BernieBros.

  20. 20.

    Major Major Major Major

    July 31, 2016 at 9:45 pm

    Chelsea Manning not being treated super awesomely, part the umpteenth

  21. 21.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    July 31, 2016 at 9:48 pm

    Mike Pence has issued a statement on Capt Khan, blaming his 2004 death on the instability of the Middle East caused by the policies of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.

  22. 22.

    Iowa Old Lady

    July 31, 2016 at 9:49 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Is that true? I don’t know whether to hope it’s a joke so we can make political hay out of it, or be appalled at the bizarre thought process of the R VP candidate.

  23. 23.

    PhoenixRising

    July 31, 2016 at 9:49 pm

    Lemme see if I get this:

    Right now a beleaugered Trump, who can’t quit shooting his mouth off and hitting himself right in the junk, can’t be influenced by very serious Republicans.

    But President Trump is going to nominate whoever these same serious people tell him to…? Because…?

  24. 24.

    schrodinger's cat

    July 31, 2016 at 9:50 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: WTF? Who was the President in 2004? These people are beyond disgusting.

  25. 25.

    Adam L Silverman

    July 31, 2016 at 9:51 pm

    @MomSense: @rikyrah: The first tweet AL put in the post. Uses @RadioFreeTom. He’s a Professor of National Security at the Naval War College and a former Senate staffer.

  26. 26.

    Lizzy L

    July 31, 2016 at 9:51 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Mike Pence clearly lives in a different universe than the rest of us.

  27. 27.

    Iowa Old Lady

    July 31, 2016 at 9:52 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat: Maybe Obama used his time machine again.

  28. 28.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    July 31, 2016 at 9:52 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady: found a copy-able version

    Donald Trump and I believe that Captain Humayun Khan is an American hero and his family, like all Gold Star families, should be cherished by every American.
    Captain Khan gave his life to defend our country in the global war on terror. Due to the disastrous decisions of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, a once stable Middle East has now been overrun by ISIS. This must not stand

  29. 29.

    tybee

    July 31, 2016 at 9:52 pm

    open thread so…
    from 25k feet. into a fookin’ net.

    https://www.facebook.com/flightorg/videos/vb.289402803639/10153983147248640/?type=2&theater

  30. 30.

    Adam L Silverman

    July 31, 2016 at 9:52 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: He is.

  31. 31.

    redshirt

    July 31, 2016 at 9:52 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady: Obama gave a big speech in 2004.

  32. 32.

    Major Major Major Major

    July 31, 2016 at 9:55 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: well that’s different. It’s a sly pivot, technically correct–the area is unstable! And more so ever since Obama, aided by Hillary, pulled the troops out.

  33. 33.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    July 31, 2016 at 9:58 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: …pursuant to the SOFA signed with the Government of Iraq by the unperson that was President at the time.

  34. 34.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    July 31, 2016 at 9:59 pm

    Here’s Mike Pence and a friend doing some shopping in the very stable pre-ISIS Middle East, three years after Capt Khan’s death and a year before Obama was elected. This is the only picture I could google up, I’m pretty sure there are others that made them look even sillier

    One of Mr. McCain’s colleagues on the visit to the Baghdad market was Rep. Mike Pence, an Indiana Republican, who marveled at the peaceful scene and compared it to a “normal outdoor market in Indiana in the summertime.” He, too, was mocked for those comparisons. Mr. Pence later said that he knew things were dangerous in Baghdad but he believed the United States was making some progress there.

  35. 35.

    Major Major Major Major

    July 31, 2016 at 10:00 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: yeah, but by the time you point that out the statement has a big ol TRUE from politifact and you’re just some butthurt libtard with big words. See how it works?

  36. 36.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    July 31, 2016 at 10:01 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: an agreement the Iraqi president hand-picked by some guy who was in office before Obama refused to modify, which hand-picked Iraqi president refused to keep up the financial arrangements with Sunni leaders known in the Village as “The Surge”

  37. 37.

    Felonius Monk

    July 31, 2016 at 10:01 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: My understanding is that the Hatch Act does not preclude any employee of the Executive Branch from expressing an opinion about candidates or issues. So I think the Breitbarts are full of shit, as usual.

  38. 38.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    July 31, 2016 at 10:02 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: Sofa’s* a big word?

    *I guess I could have used davenport.

    [/snark]

  39. 39.

    rikyrah

    July 31, 2016 at 10:02 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    Barack Obama was in the State Senate, and Hillary was one of 100 Senators.

  40. 40.

    Peale

    July 31, 2016 at 10:03 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: because if there was one clear message the voters were sending in 2006 and 2008, it was “please continue to spend hundreds of billions a year on Mid East stability, even if it takes 100 years”

  41. 41.

    rikyrah

    July 31, 2016 at 10:04 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Thanks for the reference

  42. 42.

    Major Major Major Major

    July 31, 2016 at 10:05 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: pursuant is… there would probably be a “technically” in there somewhere too, which is a great way to lose an argument before it starts.

  43. 43.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    July 31, 2016 at 10:05 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Shush you, don’t be bringing up inconvenient facts.

  44. 44.

    Adam L Silverman

    July 31, 2016 at 10:06 pm

    @Felonius Monk: He’s not a member of the Executive Branch. He holds a Title 10 Exempted Civil Service position. He is, given that he’s a full professor, most likely on a five year fixed term appointment that is renewable under Naval War College’s Title 10 regulations provided he meets and/or exceeds the standards for the duties delineated in his Title 10 agreement.

  45. 45.

    pseudonymous in nc

    July 31, 2016 at 10:06 pm

    Hugh Hewitt remains chief whitewasher of Nixon’s career and legacy. Whatever Pence is doing isn’t dumb, it’s a more subtle and nasty juxtaposition of Capt. Khan and ISIL. Assume that Pence’s command of facts and consequences is lacking, but that his command of wingnut bullshit is on point. He too was a radio blowhard.

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Chelsea Manning not being treated super awesomely, part the umpteenth

    Dismantle the military justice system, part the umpteenth. Or at a minimum, make it operate by the same standards as the civilian criminal justice system, instead of some nasty throwback edition.

  46. 46.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    July 31, 2016 at 10:07 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: Technically, that’s true.

  47. 47.

    redshirt

    July 31, 2016 at 10:07 pm

    Trump does look like some sickened peacock in that photo. Like he’s been plucked.

  48. 48.

    ThresherK (GPad)

    July 31, 2016 at 10:07 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Why do I get the feeling that Groucho once said “I could have used a davenport” to Margaret Dumont?

  49. 49.

    Felonius Monk

    July 31, 2016 at 10:08 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Alex Witt either had no clue what was going on,

    Seems to me Alex Witt has been pretty much clueless forever.

  50. 50.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    July 31, 2016 at 10:09 pm

    @ThresherK (GPad): My parents sometimes referred to the sofa as a davenport, they were old.

  51. 51.

    Major Major Major Major

    July 31, 2016 at 10:09 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: I knew I had found my vocation when, at my first meeting with the company, somebody asked me a question. I paused, and said, “well, technically…” and they leaned in.

  52. 52.

    WaterGirl

    July 31, 2016 at 10:09 pm

    @rikyrah: That’s a keeper!

  53. 53.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    July 31, 2016 at 10:10 pm

    @Felonius Monk: Perpetual “Blonde Moment”.

  54. 54.

    Lizzy L

    July 31, 2016 at 10:10 pm

    So Donald Trump gets to attack Hillary Clinton for voting FOR the Iraq war in October 2002, and Pence gets to attack Hillary Clinton and President Obama for pulling troops out of Iraq pursuant to a request by the Iraqi government in December 2008, while George Bush was still President.

    I can’t even.

  55. 55.

    Adam L Silverman

    July 31, 2016 at 10:11 pm

    @rikyrah: No worries. I put the comment in because AL highlit his tweet at the top of the post.

  56. 56.

    Major Major Major Major

    July 31, 2016 at 10:11 pm

    My dinner receipt informs me that on this day in 1930 the first episode of THE SHADOW aired. That’s a pretty cool receipt feature.

  57. 57.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    July 31, 2016 at 10:11 pm

    @Lizzy L: Yes.

  58. 58.

    Jack the Second

    July 31, 2016 at 10:12 pm

    … if Trump is elected, do you think there are the votes in the House and Senate to impeach him on trumped up charges and remove him from office?

  59. 59.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    July 31, 2016 at 10:12 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: “Only the Shadow knows”.

  60. 60.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    July 31, 2016 at 10:14 pm

    @Jack the Second: Interesting…. but I’m gonna say no. Trump is the base of the Republican party rolled up into one sack of crap. I wouldn’t be surprised if a sizable fraction of the GOP House caucus, and a few Senators (Sessions is all in, at least) think he’s the greatest thing Kim Davis.

  61. 61.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 31, 2016 at 10:14 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Say WHAT?

  62. 62.

    redshirt

    July 31, 2016 at 10:14 pm

    @Lizzy L: Being a Republican means Win-Win-Win at all times. Everything’s a win.

  63. 63.

    Major Major Major Major

    July 31, 2016 at 10:14 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: who knows what evil lurks in the heart of Hitlery Clinton

  64. 64.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    July 31, 2016 at 10:14 pm

    @Jack the Second: No.

  65. 65.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    July 31, 2016 at 10:15 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: Didn’t I just answer that question?

    Though I’m sure that 20 Congressional committees will investigate for several years anyway.

  66. 66.

    randy khan

    July 31, 2016 at 10:16 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    What’s amazing is that all of the blathering about ISIS is quite out of date – ISIS has been losing territory steadily for a long time. So, in other words, the strategy to suppress them is working.

  67. 67.

    Major Major Major Major

    July 31, 2016 at 10:17 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: yeah this is like jeopardy

  68. 68.

    redshirt

    July 31, 2016 at 10:18 pm

    @randy khan: KHAAAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!!

  69. 69.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    July 31, 2016 at 10:18 pm

    @randy khan: More “facts”, everyone knows that “facts” and “reality” have a liberal bias.

  70. 70.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    July 31, 2016 at 10:19 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: Oh, now you tell me.

  71. 71.

    Suzanne

    July 31, 2016 at 10:21 pm

    Have y’all read this bit of weirdness from Frum? This shit is bananas.

  72. 72.

    NotMax

    July 31, 2016 at 10:25 pm

    @BillinGlendaleCA

    Or chesterfield.

  73. 73.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 31, 2016 at 10:26 pm

    @Suzanne: B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

  74. 74.

    redshirt

    July 31, 2016 at 10:27 pm

    @Suzanne: You’ll never take Republicanism from me. No matter how surreal shit gets.

  75. 75.

    sigaba

    July 31, 2016 at 10:27 pm

    @Suzanne: Frum got tired of trying to interview Trump supporters and just ended up making up a conversation with one.

    Edit- I like the numerous allusions to “you folks in the Acela corridor.” Frum does not write snappy dialogue.

  76. 76.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    July 31, 2016 at 10:28 pm

    @sigaba: he’s on vacation in a place with no taxi drives or deli counter clerks, I guess

    @NotMax: nice

  77. 77.

    NotMax

    July 31, 2016 at 10:29 pm

    @sigaba

    At Applebee’s word salad bar.

  78. 78.

    schrodinger's cat

    July 31, 2016 at 10:30 pm

    @Suzanne: Where did he find this “voter”, Applebee’s salad bar?

  79. 79.

    Shalimar

    July 31, 2016 at 10:31 pm

    @Suzanne: Is LSD legal where Frum lives? That article might be grounds for a warrant to search his house.

  80. 80.

    sigaba

    July 31, 2016 at 10:31 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat: JYNX!

  81. 81.

    SiubhanDuinne

    July 31, 2016 at 10:32 pm

    @redshirt:

    He looks neither healthy nor happy.

  82. 82.

    Adam L Silverman

    July 31, 2016 at 10:37 pm

    @Suzanne: The real question is whether he’s simply created a fictional conversation that he thinks is representative of Trump’s supporters or whether he’s actually been talking to them and is now presenting what they’re telling him. I can’t quite tell which it is, but this seems to me to be a fair representation of what I’ve heard from people who support Trump. I know conservatives, whatever that term means in this context or any context anymore, who believe that Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, the Bushes, and almost every other elected or appointed conservative you’ve ever heard of are all a bunch of spineless leftist sellouts. This includes Chief Justice Roberts. They want the borders, every one of them, closed and sealed. When you explain that undocumented entry is a misdemeanor with no clearly defined penalty and that overstaying a lawful/authorized entry isn’t a crime at all, so if they want action they need to push for the law to be changed, they refuse to believe you. When they bitch about regulations crippling business, the ones they name are all municipal not Federal, but they still think its the Federal government’s fault and that’s why the Federal government needs to be dismantled.

    And these are not stupid people. They are smart, highly educated. Most of them are highly skilled. The question that has to be answered is just how many of them are out there? And how many Republicans and/or conservatives that don’t think this way will vote Trump and how many of the white supremacists and anti-Semites are also pulled into the electorate. We don’t know the answers to those questions and we won’t know them until election day.

  83. 83.

    Dave

    July 31, 2016 at 10:37 pm

    There’s an interesting little trick slipped into Hewitt’s article. “If he nominated a replacement for Justice Scalia who wasn’t on his list of nominees — the most frequent of imagined future outrages I hear from #NeverTrumpers — the GOP Senate should simply refuse hearings as it has to Judge Garland.” They’re already laying the groundwork to block any nominee offered by any president, for an entire term if necessary.

    Not to Chicken Little or anything, but why couldn’t we see a GOP Senate majority refuse to appoint a SCOTUS nominee for another 4 years? Their refusal to act on the Garland nomination breaks a norm. The question is, just how far has that norm been broken?

  84. 84.

    Mike J

    July 31, 2016 at 10:37 pm

    Juliana Hatfield ‏@julianahatfield 1 hour ago
    #TrumpDebateExcuses dildo stuck in throat, can’t talk

  85. 85.

    lamh36

    July 31, 2016 at 10:37 pm

    Is Betty around…

    Baby Marco…at it again…

    @SabrinaSiddiqui
    Marco Rubio now actively campaigning for Trump: “We have to make sure that Donald wins this election.”

  86. 86.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    July 31, 2016 at 10:40 pm

    @Suzanne: Though pretty much true, did you read the comments?

  87. 87.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 31, 2016 at 10:42 pm

    @Mike J: She’s all grown up now.

  88. 88.

    lamh36

    July 31, 2016 at 10:42 pm

    Nina Turner may be considering running at Jill Stein’s VP..

    My first reaction: “Huh”

    My continuous reaction: LOL

  89. 89.

    Adam L Silverman

    July 31, 2016 at 10:43 pm

    @Dave: Completely broken.

  90. 90.

    ruemara

    July 31, 2016 at 10:45 pm

    @lamh36: What the hell is wrong with her?

  91. 91.

    sigaba

    July 31, 2016 at 10:45 pm

    @Dave:

    Not to Chicken Little or anything, but why couldn’t we see a GOP Senate majority refuse to appoint a SCOTUS nominee for another 4 years? Their refusal to act on the Garland nomination breaks a norm. The question is, just how far has that norm been broken?

    Constitution doesn’t say how many justices the Supreme Court has. And Republican voters, if they send a clear signal of any kind, are clearly sending the signal that they expect their politicians to break rules, and if they do any less than that they “aren’t fighting” and are liable to be primaried.

  92. 92.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    July 31, 2016 at 10:46 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: I agree, there’s a lot of folk out there like this. I’ve heard these sort of comments, not all of the, but most of them. I’m a bit scared of the combination of the Schwarzenegger effect combined with the angry folk.

  93. 93.

    Mike J

    July 31, 2016 at 10:47 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: I was thinking it was smart to put the hashtag before the joke in that case.

  94. 94.

    Lizzy L

    July 31, 2016 at 10:47 pm

    @lamh36: Empty suit. Total, complete, empty suit. Unprincipled. Wouldn’t know a principle if it came up behind him and bit him on the ass. Also: spineless coward. I think we should continue calling him Little Marco, because damn that’s who he is.

  95. 95.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 31, 2016 at 10:48 pm

    @sigaba:

    Constitution doesn’t say how many justices the Supreme Court has.

    There are laws that do.

  96. 96.

    Adam L Silverman

    July 31, 2016 at 10:49 pm

    @lamh36: He doesn’t have any choice. His primary opponent, Carlos Beruff, began running ads across Florida weeks ago aligning himself closely with Trump and Trump’s agenda. Beruff, like Rubio, is Cuban American, but Beruff is trying to get way to Rubio’s right.
    http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/elections/how-us-senate-candidate-carlos-beruff-avoided-235000-in-taxes-last-year/2287427

  97. 97.

    Suzanne

    July 31, 2016 at 10:50 pm

    @sigaba: I liked the part about taking guns from people with DUIs. Like, WHAAAAAAAAT?

  98. 98.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 31, 2016 at 10:50 pm

    @Mike J: True enough.

  99. 99.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 31, 2016 at 10:52 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: He’s the id of the GOP made physical. Much like what happened to Dr. Morbius in Forbidden Planet. Unlike Morbius, they haven’t realized the truth of the matter.

  100. 100.

    Suzanne

    July 31, 2016 at 10:52 pm

    @sigaba: In Frum’s defense, I would get tired of trying to interview Trump supporters, too, especially if you’re trying to suss out any sort of consistent worldview apart from “fuck everyone who isn’t me”.

  101. 101.

    Adam L Silverman

    July 31, 2016 at 10:53 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: And they’re impervious to reasonable explanation of anything. They know what they know/believe what they believe and that’s it. And they are convinced everyone else in the country is their enemy. Not just fellow citizens that don’t agree with them on a policy or a strategy, but completely, absolutely people that have to be repudiated and destroyed. They are convinced another revolution or rebellion is coming, that they are well armed and provisioned enough, and, in some cases, they seem eager for it to happen.

  102. 102.

    sigaba

    July 31, 2016 at 10:54 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: D.C. Circuit Deathmatches of the last few years seem to indicate that such laws are not effectively enforceable.

  103. 103.

    Adam L Silverman

    July 31, 2016 at 10:54 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: But there is no law that can compel the Senate to actually hold a hearing or a vote. And as we’ve learned, McConnell’s strategic assumption is correct: no one in the US either knows that things don’t work because he’s prevented them from working or if they do, they don’t care.

  104. 104.

    Miss Bianca

    July 31, 2016 at 10:55 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Wait, what??

  105. 105.

    lamh36

    July 31, 2016 at 10:55 pm

    I see Pence tried to play clean up with his latest statement on this, but Trump has called on his friends to smear Mr Khan..

    @samsteinhp

    Sam Stein Retweeted Roger Stone
    Gross as F—. But it had to come to this i guess.

    @RogerJStoneJr
    Mr. Khan more than an aggrieved father of a Muslim son- he’s Muslim Brotherhood agent helping Hillary

  106. 106.

    Adam L Silverman

    July 31, 2016 at 10:56 pm

    @Suzanne: A felony conviction is disqualifying for the purposes of purchasing, owning, and/or possessing a firearm.

  107. 107.

    sigaba

    July 31, 2016 at 10:56 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Dostoevsky’s Demons.

  108. 108.

    Adam L Silverman

    July 31, 2016 at 10:57 pm

    @lamh36: So they’ve picked up the BS from Walid Shoebat’s idiot son. That was quick.

  109. 109.

    lamh36

    July 31, 2016 at 10:57 pm

    Been at my granny all day, can anyone tell me what this is about?

    @TheRickWilson
    I know we’re all about Khan today, but Manafort’s lie about the RNC Ukraine stuff is going to backfire very soon now.

  110. 110.

    Miss Bianca

    July 31, 2016 at 10:58 pm

    @ThresherK (GPad): I never promised you a davenport.

  111. 111.

    redshirt

    July 31, 2016 at 10:58 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    And they’re impervious to reasonable explanation of anything. They know what they know/believe what they believe and that’s it. And they are convinced everyone else in the country is their enemy. Not just fellow citizens that don’t agree with them on a policy or a strategy, but completely, absolutely people that have to be repudiated and destroyed. They are convinced another revolution or rebellion is coming, that they are well armed and provisioned enough, and, in some cases, they seem eager for it to happen.

    Yes. Disturbingly so. People programmed into Ragebots, ready to blow up an assigned target.

  112. 112.

    Lizzy L

    July 31, 2016 at 10:59 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Of course he has a choice. He could choose to not support Trump. He might lose the election, but it would show that he has a spine, and something that motivates him beside ambition. A sense of honor, even. Yeah, no.

  113. 113.

    Adam L Silverman

    July 31, 2016 at 11:00 pm

    @sigaba: I have a former boss. Great guy, smart. Excellent senior executive and before that officer. He sends me these emails about the President or Secretary Clinton or other things that other people send him. It usually takes me under five minutes with a keyword search to debunk them/disprove them.

    Of course when he has a legit question about this stuff, for instance why the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant is correct as opposed to the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, he also emails for the correct answer, so…

  114. 114.

    tobie

    July 31, 2016 at 11:00 pm

    @lamh36: If this means she won’t be invited as much to the evening shows on MSNBC, I’ll be satisfied.

  115. 115.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 31, 2016 at 11:01 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: DUI #1 is not a criminal offense in WI. DUIs #2-4 are misdemeanors. Only at #5 is it a felony. Exceptions for child under 16 in the car and such apply.*

    *Yes, these laws are far too lax. And I say that as a defense oriented guy.

  116. 116.

    lamh36

    July 31, 2016 at 11:01 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Right…smh…I see they are using Pence to play clean up guy, but yet they cant’ seem to stop Trump and his associates from smearing the Khans.

    I’m no conspiracy theorist, but I’m thinking they even may be trying to use the Melania nudes to try to get folks outraged byt that over this…

    Case in point…@thehill
    MSNBC’s Mika Brzezinski compares Melania Trump to mother of slain Muslim soldier

  117. 117.

    Matt McIrvin

    July 31, 2016 at 11:01 pm

    @randy khan:

    What’s amazing is that all of the blathering about ISIS is quite out of date – ISIS has been losing territory steadily for a long time. So, in other words, the strategy to suppress them is working.

    But terrorist attacks associated with them (however tenuously) keep happening, and this is what gets attention. Of course, this is a strategy of a losing movement, but to someone who reads bloody headlines about attacks in the West, it seems they’re becoming more of a menace, so we must be doing something wrong.

  118. 118.

    Adam L Silverman

    July 31, 2016 at 11:03 pm

    @lamh36: Rick Wilson is a professional Republican campaign and strategy guy. He’s very displeased with Trump and very concerned about his campaign and its effect on both the GOP and the US. Journalists have started pushing on the Trump campaign, both Trump himself and his surrogates, on why the only thing the campaign cared about in the GOP platform was weakening the language in regard to Ukraine. The charge is that this was done on behalf of Putin and if it wasn’t pushed by Trump, then by the people working for him, like Manafort, that are within Putin’s orbit. That’s what Wilson is talking about.

  119. 119.

    Matt McIrvin

    July 31, 2016 at 11:04 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    When they bitch about regulations crippling business, the ones they name are all municipal not Federal, but they still think its the Federal government’s fault and that’s why the Federal government needs to be dismantled.

    The one that drives me nuts is using bad experiences at the DMV as an argument against the federal government. Especially if the alternative is devolving functions to the states!

  120. 120.

    Barbara

    July 31, 2016 at 11:04 pm

    What kind of happy drug have they been taking to hallucinate a vision of Trump being more easily controlled once he is elected? He doesn’t care what they think even now when, ostensibly, he needs people to vote for him. It is abundantly clear that Trump is not restrained by what anyone thinks, and after being elected (God forbid!) he won’t need them at all. For all they know Trump will nominate candidates his sister tells him to — and they would so deserve it. They are idiots to think they can apply rational thinking and logic to infer the actions of an out of control narcissist.

  121. 121.

    Adam L Silverman

    July 31, 2016 at 11:05 pm

    @Lizzy L: If he wants to retain his seat he has no choice but to try to get to Beruff’s right. If he fails to do that he won’t make it out of the primary.

  122. 122.

    Miss Bianca

    July 31, 2016 at 11:05 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: You could be describing the shit I’ve been reading that my erstwhile friend has been sending me. it’s the same level of batshittery, except from the left. Clinton isn’t a liberal progressive; she’s a neoliberal monster who will pose the greatest threat the world has ever known if she’s elected. (Actual line). Obama sold us all out by not trying hard enough to get a more liberal agenda passed during that limited amount of time when he had a cooperative Congress.

    Oh, and the DNC was the most sickening display of American swagger ever, so both Obama and Clinton (and Michelle Obama, and everyone who spoke) are now more of a threat to America than Donald Trump. Cuz, sell-outs.

    I am truly frightened to think that this is logical conclusion to Bernie-or-Busterism, and I hope to hell it’s a far more limited phenomenon than it looks like.

  123. 123.

    scav

    July 31, 2016 at 11:05 pm

    @Lizzy L: Any god Pence worships must be a corkscrew if he blesses and approves of such weasel locutions as Pence has chattered during his lifetime.

  124. 124.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    July 31, 2016 at 11:05 pm

    @Suzanne: I’ve not heard about DUI’s specifically, but taking guns away from folk who are on meds for mental issues? I’ve heard that.

  125. 125.

    Adam L Silverman

    July 31, 2016 at 11:06 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: I’m tracking, but you’re assuming that Frum knows this or that, provided he actually spoke to a real Trump supporter, the Trump supporter knows that.

  126. 126.

    Suzanne

    July 31, 2016 at 11:06 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: No, I know, but it takes a lot of DUI before it’s a felony. And I haven’t heard of any push to change that or to confiscate guns from those who have had DUIs.

  127. 127.

    Gin & Tonic

    July 31, 2016 at 11:07 pm

    @lamh36: Paul Manafort was on MTP this morning, and lied straight into Chuckie’s face. The question was about the platform committee’s work at the RNC – the one and only matter on any policy that was related to them by the Trump campaign was to weaken the platform’s position on US aid to Ukraine. Manafort denied that the Trump campaign had anything to do with it, whereas people actually on the platform committee are already on record that it was the Trump campaign’s doing. Chuckie, of course, didn’t follow up, because he is a spineless weasel.

    Manafort is an amoral blood-soaked scumbag who wouldn’t know the truth if it chewed his dick off.

  128. 128.

    Matt McIrvin

    July 31, 2016 at 11:07 pm

    @lamh36: Roger Stone has been that gross for his entire career.

  129. 129.

    Adam L Silverman

    July 31, 2016 at 11:08 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: Last one I had explained to me involved a NY City municipal building and zoning code that put a community hospital out of business. Somehow this was an example of an out of control Federal government.

  130. 130.

    bk

    July 31, 2016 at 11:09 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: MADD, with some help, has been very successful in I think at least 25 states to get even requiring a first DUI conviction to get an interlock device/

  131. 131.

    schrodinger's cat

    July 31, 2016 at 11:09 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    And these are not stupid people. They are smart, highly educated.

    They are stupid about politics even if they are smart about other things.

  132. 132.

    Barbara

    July 31, 2016 at 11:10 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Watching people who are in what I call the professional Republican support system having to figure out how to react to Trump is eye opening. Unsurprisingly, a lot are like Paul Ryan, which is they try hard to keep their heads down and maintain silence unless forced into saying or doing something. Most will not say that they are not voting for Trump, let alone that they are voting for Clinton or even a third party.

  133. 133.

    sigaba

    July 31, 2016 at 11:11 pm

    @Adam L Silverman @Miss Bianca:

    You could be describing the shit I’ve been reading that my erstwhile friend has been sending me. it’s the same level of batshittery, except from the left. Clinton isn’t a liberal progressive; she’s a neoliberal monster.

    Maybe we’re the sick ones. Maybe it’s sick to accept the world for what it is and then proceed to change it. Maybe normal people are the ones who decide reality is arranged to support some moral prior and the only resolution is some kind of apocalypse.

  134. 134.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    July 31, 2016 at 11:11 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: It’s not like the states have anything to do with the DMV, gee libtards.

  135. 135.

    burnspbesq

    July 31, 2016 at 11:11 pm

    The notion that the Senate’s obligation to advise and consent can only be discharged by the affirmative vote of a majority to Senators is cow pies. Nothing in the Constitution prevents a president from sending a nomination to the Senate with the following nessage: “Unless the Senate votes by a two-thirds majority, within 48 hours, to reject Judge Garland, I will deem the Senate to have consented to his appointment.” That would be Constitutional hardball, but it’s no farther out of bounds than McConnell’s refusal to advise or consent.

  136. 136.

    redshirt

    July 31, 2016 at 11:12 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat: They’re evil about politics and destiny.

  137. 137.

    Adam L Silverman

    July 31, 2016 at 11:12 pm

    @Suzanne: My guess is that Frum, concocting this dialogue, confused DUI with restraining orders for domestic abuse. That’s usually what the People of the Gun are complaining about. And California’s process of seeking a court order to have someone’s guns taken away if one believes they are a threat to themselves and our others.

  138. 138.

    lamh36

    July 31, 2016 at 11:12 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: Ah… see last I had heard, Chuck also didn’t correct Trump surrogate when they said the debates schedule was essentially engineered by HRC camp and not by, ya know, an independent body…smh

  139. 139.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 31, 2016 at 11:12 pm

    @bk: Well, not in WI.

  140. 140.

    Adam L Silverman

    July 31, 2016 at 11:13 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat: That is, perhaps, a good way to describe it.

  141. 141.

    sigaba

    July 31, 2016 at 11:13 pm

    @burnspbesq:

    Nothing in the Constitution prevents a president from sending a nomination to the Senate with the following nessage: “Unless the Senate votes by a two-thirds majority, within 48 hours, to reject Judge Garland, I will deem the Senate to have consented to his appointment.”

    I track this and recommend Hillary simply appoint people and let the Senate veto them. I personally have no problem if she did this and I’d have no problem if President Trump tried to do this. The Senate’s Polish Parliament problem is ridiculous.

  142. 142.

    Gin & Tonic

    July 31, 2016 at 11:14 pm

    @lamh36: I suppose it’s difficult to interview people who feel no obligation whatsoever to answer truthfully.

  143. 143.

    ThresherK (GPad)

    July 31, 2016 at 11:15 pm

    @Miss Bianca: Any closer and I’d be in back of you.

  144. 144.

    Suzanne

    July 31, 2016 at 11:15 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: I heard a comment on NPR, don’t remember who said it, asserting that those with multiple DUIs are at much higher likelihood to commit gun violence than the mentally ill. I have no information on that data and where it came from or its quality. If that is true, then I can see how that might be a valid policy solution.

  145. 145.

    Lizzy L

    July 31, 2016 at 11:15 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: I know. I recognize it’s a political necessity for him. But Trump dominated him completely. If I were a right wing Floridian, his abject support of Trump now would make me spit, or laugh in his face and vote for the other guy.

  146. 146.

    lamh36

    July 31, 2016 at 11:16 pm

    It’s almost hilarious how Mike Pence twisted himself to somehow blame Obama and HRC…SMH

    2h2 hours ago
    This portion of @mike_pence statement stood out to me, as Capt. Khan was killed in 2004. Obama sworn in 4 yrs later.

  147. 147.

    Miss Bianca

    July 31, 2016 at 11:17 pm

    @sigaba: I’m starting to wonder. I mean, someone I know – someone with whom I’ve had my differences, but whose opinions I’ve always respected – is telling me that I’m ignorant of history, ignorant of theory, that Hillary supporters sound just like Trump supporters, and because I refuse to condemn current US foreign policy and use of force as being just as bad as GW Bush’s, I’m a neo-liberal tool. And I’m thinking, “wow, you’re the one who sounds like a Trump supporter, and a clear and present threat to me.”

    It scares me a little. I keep getting shocked by how deeply the Clinton Derangement Syndrome runs out there. And how much Obama Derangement Syndrome there is among the white left.

  148. 148.

    rikyrah

    July 31, 2016 at 11:17 pm

    @lamh36:
    What a flushing down of a career. ???

  149. 149.

    Miss Bianca

    July 31, 2016 at 11:19 pm

    @ThresherK (GPad): I think he actually used that line on Thelma Todd, not Margaret Dumont. ; )

  150. 150.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 31, 2016 at 11:20 pm

    @ThresherK (GPad): Phrasing!

  151. 151.

    rikyrah

    July 31, 2016 at 11:21 pm

    @lamh36:
    This story has legs. They just didn’t take the L, apologize and shut the phuq up.
    Now, we will have Gold Star families coming out for the Khans.
    Ferret Head ‘s lies about all his “support ” for the military will be investigated and found to be bogus.

  152. 152.

    lamh36

    July 31, 2016 at 11:21 pm

    @ABCPolitics
    Commission on Presidential Debates issues statement after Trump criticizes debates scheduled on nights of NFL games:

  153. 153.

    Matt McIrvin

    July 31, 2016 at 11:23 pm

    @Dave:

    but why couldn’t we see a GOP Senate majority refuse to appoint a SCOTUS nominee for another 4 years?

    One reason would be that there is no longer a GOP Senate majority. I think that’s the endpoint here–once the norms have been eliminated, the remaining remedy is political. If it’s impossible to swing that, tough luck.

  154. 154.

    rikyrah

    July 31, 2016 at 11:23 pm

    @lamh36:
    But, between the Khans and the Eastern European lies, nobody gives a shyt about the pictures.

  155. 155.

    sigaba

    July 31, 2016 at 11:23 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: Something notable about Frum’s, um, “colloquy,” is a total preoccupation with appearances and what other people “think” of Trump and how, what’s really important, is how he drives people crazy. When Trump lies and breaks rules, he’s really playing 11-dimensional chess to prove how totally in control of every situation he is, and when people notice he’s lying that only goes to show how totally Trump is ruling their world.

    (I am vaguely reminded about something Karl Rove once said about “creating our own reality,” which reporters and citizens in the “reality-based community” could describe, but otherwise had no influence.)

    Absent from any of this is why anyone would actually want to vote for Trump, apart from the fact that he’s a winner and knows how to defeat other Republicans. The policies and his character are beside the point.

  156. 156.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 31, 2016 at 11:24 pm

    @Miss Bianca:

    I’m a neo-liberal tool.

    Try pointing out that neo-liberal deals with economic policy and neo-con deals with foreign policy.

  157. 157.

    scav

    July 31, 2016 at 11:25 pm

    @lamh36: Time zones are tricky in Indiana (certain counties haven’t made it to the 20th C). Natives can get easily confused about temporal ordering.

  158. 158.

    lamh36

    July 31, 2016 at 11:26 pm

    @ddale8
    Here’s how Trump’s campaign responded when I asked about Bloomberg questioning his sanity

    Basically Trump can’t just say “he’s perfectly healthy”…naw…

    Trump’s campaign vehemently disagrees.

    “I’m sure you saw Mr. Trump’s medical report released in December of last year, which described him as perhaps the healthiest individual to ever be elected President (paraphrasing) — I refer you to that,” spokeswoman Hope Hicks said in an email.

  159. 159.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 31, 2016 at 11:26 pm

    @lamh36: An independent body 10 months ago, 8 months before the NFL released its 2016 schedule.

  160. 160.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 31, 2016 at 11:27 pm

    @scav: You’re like a mini Mike Royko column.

  161. 161.

    RaflW

    July 31, 2016 at 11:27 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat: Because Obama was running for the US Senate in 2004, he is directly responsible for Capt Khan’s death.

    Or something. More likely Pence’s staff are just as stupid as Trump hisownself.

  162. 162.

    schrodinger's cat

    July 31, 2016 at 11:29 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: True but for Bernie supporters it is an all encompassing insult. If they don’t like you then you are a neoliberal tool.

  163. 163.

    aimai

    July 31, 2016 at 11:29 pm

    @Miss Bianca: I was reading a book on manipulative people and I saw that one of the first things they try to do is figure out what will push your shame button to keep you in line. I was wondering why, so often, a certain type of commenter will say “you sound just like a republican” if I defend HRC. What they mean is that a willingness to support my own candidate, in the face of the stupid right wing/left wing attacks they are making, is inconvenient for them. And they think I can be silenced or shamed by the comparison. Its just something that, well, manipulative and covertly agressive people do. They don’t believe it. They don’t care, really. Its just something they think will work.

  164. 164.

    schrodinger's cat

    July 31, 2016 at 11:33 pm

    Can someone explain why wingnut heads explode when they hear another language. See for example, Sarah Palin and the part of Kaine’s speech in Spanish. Isn’t being fluent in more than one language a positive thing?

  165. 165.

    Mike J

    July 31, 2016 at 11:33 pm

    @scav:

    Time zones are tricky in Indiana (certain counties haven’t made it to the 20th C). Natives can get easily confused about temporal ordering.

    Made for a good ep of West Wing.

  166. 166.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 31, 2016 at 11:34 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat: It may surprise people here, but amongst my weaponry are such diverse elements as fear, surprise, and arrogant condescension.

  167. 167.

    Mike J

    July 31, 2016 at 11:35 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    If they don’t like you then you are a neoliberal tool.

    Shill.

    I’m a neo-liberal shill.

  168. 168.

    Brachiator

    July 31, 2016 at 11:36 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Donald Trump and I believe that Captain Humayun Khan is an American hero and his family, like all Gold Star families, should be cherished by every American.

    WTF?

    These statements are deliberately crafted to be dishonest and misleading. Damn. Even with Fox News in temporary disarray, the Republican Mendacity Machine is functioning well.

  169. 169.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    July 31, 2016 at 11:41 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat: I’m guessing you’re not familiar with the English Only movement.

  170. 170.

    Brachiator

    July 31, 2016 at 11:42 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Can someone explain why wingnut heads explode when they hear another language. See for example, Sarah Palin and the part of Kaine’s speech in Spanish.

    Wait. I’m confused. Sarah Palin does not speak English. Her fans have no problem with this.

  171. 171.

    Brachiator

    July 31, 2016 at 11:48 pm

    @Suzanne:

    I heard a comment on NPR, don’t remember who said it, asserting that those with multiple DUIs are at much higher likelihood to commit gun violence than the mentally ill.

    Wow. This is some tortured bullshit. Even if true, the class or set of people with DUIs is different from the class or set of people who are mentally ill. And there is also likely an overlap between the two groups, so much so that I would suggest that the comparison is meaningless.

  172. 172.

    Cat48

    July 31, 2016 at 11:53 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Trump may have never met Putin, but Gen Flynn, his advisor, met with Putin this year at an RT Banquet celebrating RT’s 10yrs of broadcasting. Trump may think we need to soften our policies towards Russia bc Flynn, his advisor thinks that we should. Probably not news to you but the press won’t even use google. They don’t want public to know for some reason.

  173. 173.

    Major Major Major Major

    July 31, 2016 at 11:55 pm

    @Brachiator: I would believe it. What’s the problem?

  174. 174.

    Brachiator

    July 31, 2016 at 11:56 pm

    @lamh36:

    Ah… see last I had heard, Chuck also didn’t correct Trump surrogate when they said the debates schedule was essentially engineered by HRC camp and not by, ya know, an independent body…smh

    The insinuation is something like this: Crooked Hillary and her Democrat helpers stacked the debate schedule to hurt Bernie, and they are doing the same thing to Trump, because Little Donnie is an innocent lamb who doesn’t understand these things, and who would never try to pull a stunt that would give him an advantage.

    Lying shitgibbon. These dopes are going to be flinging shit from now until election day.

  175. 175.

    Mnemosyne

    August 1, 2016 at 12:00 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Ah, so it’s the old Cheney trick of putting “Saddam Hussein” and “9/11” into the same paragraph but never actually drawing a connection between the two so there’s still deniability.

    And yet some idiot lefties will still fall for it because Hillary is Evil.

  176. 176.

    Omnes Omnibus

    August 1, 2016 at 12:00 am

    @Cat48: Do you really want to go with Flynn when Manafort is available?

  177. 177.

    MarilyD SOregon

    August 1, 2016 at 12:00 am

    My son and DIL and sister were solidly in Bernie’s camp. My son and DIL, appear to have signed on #with Her. My sister is a staunch Hillary Hater, something about Victoria Nuland at the State Dept. Can anyone clue me in? My sister worked for the State Dept. during the Nixon years, and went as an aide with Shirley Temple Black on her mission to Russia.

  178. 178.

    Omnes Omnibus

    August 1, 2016 at 12:02 am

    @Brachiator: Shitgibbon seems to be sticking here for some reason. Not complaining.

  179. 179.

    RaflW

    August 1, 2016 at 12:02 am

    Holy mother of g—

    @MarkHalperin
    Does the RNC dare to do oppo on the Khans? They are likely to hear from donors about this already.

    We’re well beyond Chris Hayes’ Twilight of the Elites. We’re now at 3a.m. Meth Addict Convulsion of the Elites.

  180. 180.

    Mnemosyne

    August 1, 2016 at 12:03 am

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    It’s because they’ve made up their own definition of “neoliberal” that doesn’t match the actual definition.

  181. 181.

    scav

    August 1, 2016 at 12:03 am

    Hhhmmmm. So is Trump really going about proclaiming loudly and complaining that he’s less of a prime time TV draw than a mere football game? Shouldn’t his yuuuge PR aura be the superpower that attracts the fawning audience to the event wherein he can introduce the shadowy unknown figure of Hillary Clinton to the unsuspecting voting public?

  182. 182.

    Barbara

    August 1, 2016 at 12:05 am

    @Brachiator: Alcohol use is associated will all kinds of antisocial behavior. A significant percentage of domestic abusers only abuse after using alcohol. So it is no mystery at all that use of alcohol would be correlated with disinhibition in the use of violence.

  183. 183.

    sm*t cl*de

    August 1, 2016 at 12:05 am

    “Put down your #NeverTrump pride and start working to save the Supreme Court.”

    Ha. If there aren’t enough Republican senators to block the nominations from a hypothetical Clinton presidency, then there aren’t enough to rubber-stamp Trump’s nominations.

    This is not an argument. It’s a ball of hair shaped to look like an argument.

  184. 184.

    Mnemosyne

    August 1, 2016 at 12:06 am

    @Suzanne:

    I guess I’m wondering about the definition of “gun violence.” As I understand it, the major reason for denying guns to people with mental health issues is to prevent them from committing suicide, not homicide.

  185. 185.

    Brachiator

    August 1, 2016 at 12:06 am

    @Miss Bianca:

    I’m starting to wonder. I mean, someone I know – someone with whom I’ve had my differences, but whose opinions I’ve always respected – is telling me that I’m ignorant of history, ignorant of theory, that Hillary supporters sound just like Trump supporters, and because I refuse to condemn current US foreign policy and use of force as being just as bad as GW Bush’s, I’m a neo-liberal tool.

    I listened to Cornell West unpack this bullshit on the podcast version of Real Time with Bill Maher. Barney Frank deftly deflated most of West’s posturings. But the Bernie diehards and Jill Stein maniacs will not be pulled from their purity trees.

  186. 186.

    Major Major Major Major

    August 1, 2016 at 12:06 am

    @Barbara: not to mention the extremely high comorbidity of alcohol abuse and mental illness.

  187. 187.

    BR

    August 1, 2016 at 12:09 am

    @Brachiator:

    I sometimes think the best thing is to convince the Stein-inclined that Stein is not ideologically pure enough (she supports our current economy existing, or whatever) and that she curbs what she says so that she can get interviews on Fox News (where she’s happy to get airtime), etc. Push the Stein-inclined even further left, so they are attacking Stein from the left, and you’ll have done a day’s work.

  188. 188.

    Feathers

    August 1, 2016 at 12:12 am

    @schrodinger’s cat: No.

    People who speak more than one language come in two basic varieties. Foreigners, who are bad. People who are more educated than they are, also bad. There also is the fixation that people who are not speaking English must be doing it so that they can badmouth you without you understanding what they are saying. Yes, this is a thing. I’ve seen it show up on reality shows and Youtube videos. I also know a person or two who does it. They are all highly strung, overly moralistic, and really racist.

  189. 189.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    August 1, 2016 at 12:13 am

    @RaflW: I’m guessing a countertop inspection is in order, sigh.

  190. 190.

    Omnes Omnibus

    August 1, 2016 at 12:13 am

    @Major Major Major Major: Just raising an issue from below… You work in a STEM field, don’t you?

  191. 191.

    Tom Q

    August 1, 2016 at 12:15 am

    @Matt McIrvin: I happened to be in, of all things, a summer theatre workshop with Roger Stone back in high school. I can testify, he was a jerk even that far back. I’m proud to say none of the rest of us could stand him.

  192. 192.

    Major Major Major Major

    August 1, 2016 at 12:16 am

    @Omnes Omnibus: why, did I misuse ‘comorbidity’?

    But yeah I’m not shy about being a… let’s go with ‘data scientist’. Linguistics/creative writing undergrad though

  193. 193.

    Omnes Omnibus

    August 1, 2016 at 12:17 am

    @Tom Q: You poor bastard.

  194. 194.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    August 1, 2016 at 12:17 am

    @Tom Q: I believe that Roger either invented the term ratfucking or the it was coined to describe his activities.

  195. 195.

    Suzanne

    August 1, 2016 at 12:18 am

    @Brachiator: I know nothing about it other than hearing the comment on NPR that one time, so I have no opinion on the validity of the data. I just thought of it when I read Frum’s comment about DUI and guns in his weird little fantasy exercise. On first blush, it doesn’t seem ridiculous—if you get multiple DUIs, you probably have a problem with self-control, which also seems a likely risk factor for violent behavior—but IANAC or P (criminologist or psychologist).

  196. 196.

    Tom Q

    August 1, 2016 at 12:19 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Yeah, he was part of the Segretti team during the ’72 campaign.

  197. 197.

    Villago Delenda Est

    August 1, 2016 at 12:20 am

    @Feathers: Another manifestation of the paranoia that grips the wingtards. Why Alex Jones and chemtrails are so popular among them.

  198. 198.

    Mnemosyne

    August 1, 2016 at 12:20 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    He’s a librarian, IIRC. But there are libraries in STEM fields.

  199. 199.

    Brachiator

    August 1, 2016 at 12:21 am

    @Barbara:

    Alcohol use is associated will all kinds of antisocial behavior.

    I don’t disagree with this. It’s the comparison with the mentally ill that is problematic.

    A significant percentage of domestic abusers only abuse after using alcohol.

    I suppose this is true. But how significant is significant? And “only after using alcohol?” This is too much of an absolute for me to think it reasonable.

    And it also sounds like blaming the alcohol rather than looking at other reasons why an abuser hurts his or her victims.

    Other things being equal does an alcoholic who abuses always stop the abuse if they stop drinking, without some other therapy or intervention?

  200. 200.

    Major Major Major Major

    August 1, 2016 at 12:22 am

    @Brachiator:

    does an alcoholic who abuses always stop the abuse if they stop drinking,

    Oh, heavens no. But they’re more likely to abuse while intoxicated. At least violently. I think, obviously don’t have the stats handy.

    @Mnemosyne: “Information architecture” is the umbrella field.

  201. 201.

    Villago Delenda Est

    August 1, 2016 at 12:23 am

    @Tom Q: The man has a picture of Nixon tattooed on his back.

  202. 202.

    Omnes Omnibus

    August 1, 2016 at 12:24 am

    @Major Major Major Major: And your degree/s are in the same field?

    There is a side where words matter as much as numbers: law, history, public policy, etc. Our attempts at precision with words have a reason. To switch to your world being careless about a word is like saying the answer is 327 x 3 or 4. And then when people complain, saying, “oh well, close enough.”

  203. 203.

    Suzanne

    August 1, 2016 at 12:25 am

    @Mnemosyne: Well, I think educated people who propose to keep guns from “the mentally ill” (scare quoting because this is so vaguely defined as to be meaningless) would say that it’s to cut down on suicides. But IME, there’s a shit-ton of ignoramuses who think that all of the people who commit gun violence are CRRRRRRRRAZY (again, not defined) and that we need to keep them from killing us. It’s an othering technique, of course.

    Again, I know nothing about this data and I certainly don’t have any position on the issue—I just mentioned it due to the Frum crazy, and was wondering if this is a thing going around with the ammosexuals.

  204. 204.

    Major Major Major Major

    August 1, 2016 at 12:27 am

    @Omnes Omnibus: I know, you’ll notice that my comments about affect/effect kept including the caveat unless you’re a lawyer, which was also meant as a reference to those other fields.

    Frankly, you can get math ‘close enough’ on a restaurant bill when doing the tip, or use ‘decimate’ wrong in a movie review, and they will bother me equally, which is to say, not at all.

    If you’re designing a data system ontology and try to put our entity for “french” under the “grape” classification, I’ll get quite upset because “french” is not a kind of grape. That would break the database. But in casual usage, if you pivot mid-sentence to switch from talking about kinds of grape to talking about french wines, I’ll just go along for the ride because it’s quite clear what you meant, and that’s the point of 99% of linguistic usage.

  205. 205.

    Brachiator

    August 1, 2016 at 12:28 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Shitgibbon seems to be sticking here for some reason. Not complaining.

    I like great apes (part of my science nerd background). And gibbons are brachiators. So the idea of gibbons flying through the trees flinging poo appeals to me greatly.

    I also think that Trump was given this appellation when he made a fool of himself about BREXIT when he visited Scotland. So I always hear shitgibbon applied to him in a strong Scottish accent.

  206. 206.

    Villago Delenda Est

    August 1, 2016 at 12:34 am

    @Brachiator: Aye. “Tiny-fingered, Cheeto-faced, ferret-wearing shitgibbon” is the term that was on a list of the various ways the Scots addressed Trump that weekend. His tweet really set them off, given that Scotland voted overwhelmingly “stay”.

  207. 207.

    Mike in NC

    August 1, 2016 at 12:35 am

    Never heard of this Hugh Hewitt idiot until Andrew Sullivan blogged about going on his radio show, where apparently he would grill guests about their religious identity (him being an extremist Evangelical Christian).

  208. 208.

    Omnes Omnibus

    August 1, 2016 at 12:37 am

    @Major Major Major Major: When you say “unless you are a lawyer” you are necessarily excluding other academic fields. One can write them in by saying “unless one is in law or some other profession where precision of language matters.” But that would sort of defeat your point.

    If you can use affect and effect for the same purpose in academic writing in your field, your field needs more education on the English language.

  209. 209.

    magurakurin

    August 1, 2016 at 12:38 am

    @Feathers: Using another language to hide your comments is not always racist. On a subway in Paris my uncle got cornered by a very, very suspicious character that seemed obviously to be a pick-pocket. My uncle, being a kind a trusting soul, didn’t pick up on the danger and was chatting with the man. We were sitting just in front of them and I told my wife in Japanese, “that guy is a thief” It was quite safe we felt to speak about it in front of him since the odds that he could understand our heavily dialected Japanese was basically zero. Even people from Tokyo have a bit of trouble with it. We discussed trying to alert my uncle but we afraid to say to him in English, as the thief obviously spoke English. If we shouted, “Uncle, that guy looks like a thief,” we weren’t sure what the reaction might be. Perhaps the man has a knife for such situations. In the end, my uncle was pickpocketed as the thief slipped off the train at the next stop. The 5 of us together on the trip had a pow-wow after that. We agreed that shouting out in English might have had risks so we decided on a plan. If anyone saw someone or something suspicious they were to shout out to the others the name of my brother-in-law (no particular reason why him) This would be the signal that something was up to the others. So, we would occasionaly shout out my brother-in-laws name as would be pick pocketers wandered by in the subway. And they really are legion in Paris.

  210. 210.

    Major Major Major Major

    August 1, 2016 at 12:40 am

    @Omnes Omnibus: You can’t. Were we talking about academic writing? Perhaps my miseducation in the field of linguistics made me miss that the thread was specifically about that kind of writing. If how Chris Matthews pronounces ‘nuclear’ is of particular interest to your academic field, something something sarcasm blah blah.

  211. 211.

    median

    August 1, 2016 at 12:44 am

    @magurakurin: I think you’re right about Paris and pickpockets. My pocket was dipped into went I went there in high school. A friend of mine had her iphone lifted in Paris. Another friend got scammed out of his luggage on the way out of the airport … baguettes, mimes, and pickpockets.

  212. 212.

    Major Major Major Major

    August 1, 2016 at 12:45 am

    @median: Paris is lousy with pickpockets. Barcelona, too.

  213. 213.

    Omnes Omnibus

    August 1, 2016 at 12:45 am

    @Major Major Major Major: When you bring the learned professions into it, I assume you aren’t talking about casual conversation. Okay. I will state my proposition: Words matter. Your suggestion that affect=effect is simply wrong. That is it.

  214. 214.

    Brachiator

    August 1, 2016 at 12:46 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Our attempts at precision with words have a reason.

    I sympathize with your views, but words are chameleons. They are changelings. They are tricksters that easily slip away from their old contexts and take on entirely new and legitimate meanings as time and circumstance change.

    Boondocks is a great word for the sticks,the bad part of town. Do you know the Gene Pitney song, Down in the boondocks?

    But it derives from Tagalog bundok mountain, or rough country with dense brush. Maybe brought to the US by Army personnel serving over in Asia in the 1930s.

    Words are not like arithmetic, but higher level maths.

    ETA But I agree that affect does not equal effect. Never.

  215. 215.

    Omnes Omnibus

    August 1, 2016 at 12:48 am

    @Brachiator: Does affect equal effect?

    @Brachiator: I just saw your ETA.

  216. 216.

    magurakurin

    August 1, 2016 at 12:52 am

    @median: About two years ago there was actually a strike in the Louvre by the workers. They were striking because of the pickpockets. They pickpockets INSIDE the Louvre had gotten so brazen that they were actually threatening the workers not to say anything or alert the unsuspecting. There are definitely some major hot spots in Paris. The subway stop outside the Eiffel Tower is one. My uncle got hit there a second time…but his wallet was already gone! He got double teamed by two young girls. One stopped in front of him at the turnstyle locking him in and the other grabbed for his wallet. She wasn’t very skilled because he felt her grab his butt. He was a little bit happy about…most action he’d seen a while he said. The funicular that goes up to Sacre-Coeur is really bad. Signs all over the place and “petition takers” in the square….a distraction. But they hop on the crowded funicular car and take adavantage of the crowd of tourists.

  217. 217.

    magurakurin

    August 1, 2016 at 12:54 am

    @Major Major Major Major: My wife had her back packed opened while she was walking in the Barcelona subway. I always kept mine in front like a paratrooper, but she said I was being overly cautious….doh. Luckily nothing was missing, but the person was able to look through without her even knowing. Her passport and wallet were around her neck, so she was safe there. I never ever put a passport in a bag. It is always in a belt pouch right next to the family jewels.

  218. 218.

    Major Major Major Major

    August 1, 2016 at 12:56 am

    @Omnes Omnibus: I said unless you’re a lawyer. Excluding the learned professions.

    Words do matter! More importantly though, when we’re talking about languages, context matters. That’s how meaning is derived, when there’s a conflict, 99% of the time. Since the purpose of most language is communication, this is indeed ‘good enough’. So, when in doubt, spell it ‘effect’. At the very least you’ve saved yourself the potential embarrassment of looking like you know how to use ‘affect’ and being wrong about it.

    When you seek to remove language from its context is where things get interesting. Law is a particularly fascinating field in this regard. You create a rigid formal structure in which, as is the very point, there can (or should) be no linguistic ambiguity, because you’re trying to pass down consistency. Legal language is a lot like the formal grammar of a programming language in this regard. If I had to pigeon-hole it I’d put it as a context-sensitive grammar–but then we’re using a different form of the word ‘context’! What a great example.

    But I don’t consider this to be the type of language we’re talking about when we talk about language unless it’s specified as such. Language wasn’t meant to pass on rigid structures through the ages, it was meant for talking. Most written language reflects this and changes quite a bit as time goes by. So, when in doubt, type ‘effect’. Nobody’s going to care in 30 years except the lawyers.

    For the record, I never said ‘affect’ and ‘effect’ were the same word.
    ETA: One final clarification. “As a rule, spell it with an e” is a great rule. The vast majority of usage is either 1) effect or 2) people using affect when they should use effect.

  219. 219.

    Miss Bianca

    August 1, 2016 at 12:59 am

    @Omnes Omnibus: thanks, I’ll try to keep that in mind. ; )

  220. 220.

    Anne Laurie

    August 1, 2016 at 1:05 am

    @Suzanne:

    Have y’all read this bit of weirdness from Frum? This shit is bananas.

    Never forget, Frum’s career was made writing speeches for Preznit Dubya. He took great pride in coming up with the phrase ‘axis of evil’. Sure, he’s embarrassed by the current GOP candidate, but occasionally his inner RepubRatfvcker emerges, once more slavering for the raw rush of triumphantly channelling hatred & bigotry!… err, other peoples’ hatred and bigotry, of course. Because David Frum personally is not like that, he’ll be the first to tell you.

  221. 221.

    Omnes Omnibus

    August 1, 2016 at 1:05 am

    @Major Major Major Major: Why don’t words matter for other learned professions?

  222. 222.

    Major Major Major Major

    August 1, 2016 at 1:07 am

    @Omnes Omnibus: I meant that “unless you’re a lawyer” should be taken to exclude the other learned professions as well as law. That was clumsy, my bad.

  223. 223.

    Omnes Omnibus

    August 1, 2016 at 1:08 am

    @Omnes Omnibus: Eh, fuck it. I am going to bed.

  224. 224.

    Brachiator

    August 1, 2016 at 1:16 am

    @Suzanne:

    I know nothing about it other than hearing the comment on NPR that one time, so I have no opinion on the validity of the data.

    I didn’t intend to give you a hard time about it. And I understand the common sense aspects of this, and the political side.

    I just thought of it when I read Frum’s comment about DUI and guns in his weird little fantasy exercise.

    Yep.

  225. 225.

    Omnes Omnibus

    August 1, 2016 at 1:19 am

    @Major Major Major Major: My god, you just said that careful use of language doesn’t matter except where it does.

    If your point is that fiction, which you write, is different, then fine. Otherwise, you are wrong and words and grammar matter.

  226. 226.

    Major Major Major Major

    August 1, 2016 at 1:21 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    careful use of language doesn’t matter except where it does.

    fiction[…] is different[…] fine.

    Glad we agree!
    Law is different from journalism is different from radio is different from restaurant receipts is different from blog comments, also too. So stop saying everybody has/ought to use ‘decimate’ (or whatever) like it said in the dictionary you grew up with, everywhere.

  227. 227.

    Brachiator

    August 1, 2016 at 1:27 am

    @magurakurin:

    There are definitely some major hot spots in Paris.

    The boyfriend of a co-worker ran down and confronted a pickpocket while on vacation in Paris. A team used a teen girl as a “bumping” distraction. He managed to get his wallet back. I used to travel with a giveaway wallet in some countries.

    Travelers to Rio are strongly advised not to wear jewelry or watches and to carry a small amount of cash to give to muggers.

    Also, a smartphone scam. Guys come up to a person in a cafe with their smartphone on the table. They chat or have some charity or event they want to talk about. They have papers or brochures that they put down on the table. When they collect their papers, they also scoop up the smartphone.

  228. 228.

    Mnemosyne

    August 1, 2016 at 1:39 am

    @magurakurin:

    I think it was Rick Steves who said you should always keep your passport and wallet under your clothes with maybe a small amount of cash in an accessible pocket so that getting pickpocketed is an interesting cultural experience and not a trip-ruining disaster.

  229. 229.

    Amir Khalid

    August 1, 2016 at 1:46 am

    @schrodinger’s cat:
    It is, of course, but try telling that to someone not fluent even in their first and only language.

  230. 230.

    Steeplejack

    August 1, 2016 at 4:17 am

    @Brachiator:

    Total fail.

    1. “Down in the Boondocks,” a great song written by Joe South, was a hit for Billy Joe Royal, not Gene Pitney. It was covered several times, but not by Pitney (according to Wikipedia).

    2. Words taking on “entirely new and legitimate meanings as time and circumstance change” is a completely different thing from a word (say, boondocks) entering English from another language. So your example of the latter to say something about the former is flawed. Once boondocks arrived in English, its meaning has been stable, i.e., “rough country with dense brush” or “a rural area, ‘the sticks.’”

    There are words that “easily slip away from their old contexts and take on entirely new and legitimate meanings as time and circumstance change,” but your example of boondocks has fuck-all to do with it.

    Please report to pedant detention after blog this week.

  231. 231.

    Steeplejack

    August 1, 2016 at 4:29 am

    @Major Major Major Major:

    “As a rule, spell it with an e” is a great rule. The vast majority of usage is either 1) effect or 2) people using affect when they should use effect.

    Poppycock. Your rule is going to break down because, although people usually do mean effect when the word in question is a noun, they almost always mean affect when the word is a verb. “How does this affect the process?” “How does this affect the time line?” (*As opposed to “What is the effect on the time line?”)

    Yes, there is the case of, for example, “He wanted to effect change in the government,” but that is probably a very small percentage—just like the small percentage of noun affects. (“His affect seemed a little off after reading the blog for so long.”)

  232. 232.

    Steve in the ATL

    August 1, 2016 at 8:28 am

    @Steeplejack: this is correct.

    Of course, I’m a lawyer so what do I know?

  233. 233.

    Barbara

    August 1, 2016 at 9:18 am

    @Brachiator: I am following up even though this is mostly a dead thread. Regarding alcohol and abuse: I am not excusing abusers but simply pointing out that it is unsurprising that people who are primed to use violence of all kinds will disproportionately do so after using alcohol because alcohol has a disinhibiting effect on a wide array of behaviors. To take a very safe example, people who drink alcohol in a restaurant are more likely to order dessert. And it is also true that mentally ill people may be more likely to abuse drugs and alcohol if for no other reason than as a form of self-medication. I don’t know how many abusers fit the pattern I identified, but I used to counsel domestic abuse victims and a fair number told me that their abusers could keep it together when sober but frequently lost control when drunk.

  234. 234.

    Brachiator

    August 1, 2016 at 9:19 am

    @Steeplejack: Ha! Thanks for the correction. I had a total brain fart in which I conjoined Down in the Boondocks with Town Without Pity. I knew the singers. But I never knew that Joe South wrote the song. When I was a yoot, I didn’t know from songwriters, and didn’t always backfill my knowledge once I learned better. Also, I sometimes mix the song up with Johnny Rivers’ Poor Side of Town.

    But the word’s origins does prove my point. English has a shitload of foreign words, and meanings shifted as the word travelled and knocked around. And in English usage, there is a big contextual difference between it’s use to describe an uninhabited woody area and the poor and especially unsophisticated part of town.

  235. 235.

    Brachiator

    August 1, 2016 at 9:31 am

    @Barbara: I totally take your point about alcohol use and abuse. I mainly objected to the original author (Frum?) using fuzzy statistics to try to compare abusers who drink, the mentally ill and gun use.

    I like what you say about the mentally ill sometimes using alcohol to self medicate.

    But I wonder if some abusers knowingly and deliberately (even if unconsciously) use alcohol to help work themselves up into using violence. And almost to give themselves permission.

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