Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Weird. Rome has an American Pope and America has a Russian President.

Museums are not America’s attic for its racist shit.

Democracy cannot function without a free press.

Disagreements are healthy; personal attacks are not.

Good lord, these people are nuts.

Washington Post Catch and Kill, not noticeably better than the Enquirer’s.

Boeing: repeatedly making the case for high speed rail.

I really should read my own blog.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

Balloon Juice, where there is always someone who will say you’re doing it wrong.

He seems like a smart guy, but JFC, what a dick!

You cannot love your country only when you win.

The next time the wall street journal editorial board speaks the truth will be the first.

They think we are photo bombing their nice little lives.

My years-long effort to drive family and friends away has really paid off this year.

JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?

All hail the time of the bunny!

Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.

Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

Just because you believe it, that does not make it true.

“Perhaps I should have considered other options.” (head-desk)

Not all heroes wear capes.

Take hopelessness and turn it into resilience.

You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2016 / Tuesday Morning Open Thread: Stay Calm and GOTV

Tuesday Morning Open Thread: Stay Calm and GOTV

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Yes, it’s easy to get preoccupied with the noisy implosion of the other party…

What’s on the agenda for the new day?

Reader Interactions

227Comments

  2. 2.

    tybee

    i find it highly entertaining that georgia is polling for hitlery.
    hope the senator from georgia gets sent home, too.

  9. 9.

    bystander

    (Best Aliza Kashi voice). Good morning, peoples!

    Just read Charles Pierce say that if Clinton “accepts” the endorsement of Henry Kissinger, he won’t vote for her. Accepts an endorsement? And give me a break, I’m no HK fan but it’s not the endorsement of the KKK. It’s the endorsement of a former Secretary of State and at one time, the leading figure in international relations.

    I’ll be thrilled if we turn the Senate. The House? Watching Paul Ryan slink back to the dung heap once he sprang? Priceless!

  11. 11.

    Cermet

    Glad the shift is growing for Ms. Hillary Clinton despite the Rump’s own ‘pivot’. Not that anyone should become complacent but better to be in this situation then the Rumps. Be absolutely amazing (through very unlikely) that Ms. Clinton wins all the ‘East Coast’. Wonder what that would that tell the babbling class of corporate whore media?

  14. 14.

    kd bart

    Trump is the KISS of Presidential candidates. Both appeal to the same demographic, white working class males, play better in rural areas and are a product of marketing rather than actual talent.

  15. 15.

    geg6

    @bystander:

    Kissinger is a monster. A real life monster. But I am not quite sure what Charley means here. If Kissinger comes out for Hilz, that’s somehow a deal breaker because it’s her fault? WTF, like she should tell ol’ Henry to shove it? I’m sure she isn’t soliciting his endorsement, so what is she supposed to do about such an endorsement that won’t lead to so many Villager vapors that whatever fresh outrage the Drumpfenfuhrer has committed will be minimized by her rudeness to the Butcher of Cambodia? I can’t even with these purity ponies whose delicate feefees can’t deal with the realities of politics.

  16. 16.

    Amir Khalid

    @bystander:
    Anne Laurie may like him, perhaps because of their shared Irish-American heritage, but Charles Pierce has an unfortunately sentimental and silly side to him.

  22. 22.

    hellslittlestangel

    And just think: Little Gloves hasn’t hit bottom yet! By October Clinton might be campaigning in Idaho.

    (Actually, I hope she doesn’t. I’d be scared for her.)

  23. 23.

    maryQ

    I’m not going to count onSC, AZ, or GA, though they would be fantastic, and she/we will do historically well there. But, Damn. It’s like Christmas every day right now.
    Daughter (12, very excited about Hilary) asked me the other day what I liked best about Hilary, and, she said, that I could not say “some boring policy thing”. So I gave it some thought and I said “I like the way she talks about America.” Daughter approved of that answer.
    We are living in the Democratic Party that Barack Obama built.

  25. 25.

    Ceci n'est pas mon nym

    Heh. That poll quoted by the Politico tweet above was conducted by Fox News. So the actual percentage that wants Democrats in power in both Houses must be eleventy billion percent higher than that.

  26. 26.

    Joel

    @bystander: I think what people are missing is a potential return to governance. Once upon a time, the political parties debated issues and drew up compromises that were satisfactory to most Americans. Then the GOP went fully down the rabbit hole of revanchist bullshit. The only way to fix this is to dry them out. You need to provide a home for fleeing GOPers for that to happen. It means a less ideologically unified D party but it sure as hell beats dealing with a unified front of lunacy.

  27. 27.

    Mary G

    I can’t sleep and I decided to watch Morning Joe hopefully to put me out. It’s on here on the West Coast and I am not an early bird so I haven’t seen it live. It’s awful, much worse than I ever imagined.

  28. 28.

    PaulWartenberg2016

    @Baud:

    Unfortunately, there are non-Mormon conservatives in Utah, and there’s still enough Mormons who can’t cross the aisle even just this one election to vote against a man they openly despise. There are enough polls showing a close Trump win (unless Johnson starts polling better among conservatives).

  29. 29.

    Cat48

    @Mary G:

    You’re right about MJ & it’s about as good as it gets today. My spouse was watching it, but I go with BBC World in the a.m. I’ve had it with all the a.m. Shows. They pushed Trump for ratings & no one else.

  30. 30.

    forked tongue

    There are rumours that Henry K was the national security honcho who was asked by Trump three times why we couldn’t use our nukes, so that may influence his endorsement.

  31. 31.

    Baud

    John Dingell ‏@JohnDingell
    A couple 20-somethings in a pool are doing more to push back on Russia than the Republican presidential nominee.

    America’s already great.

  32. 32.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Joel: They won’t become DEMs. They will reform the GOP after several years wandering the wilderness. I suppose it is possible a new party could be formed, or several new parties eventually consolidating into one, but it is hard for me to imagine how that would proceed.

  33. 33.

    satby

    Good morning everyone. My youngest son living in California has turned full Bernie nutball conspiracy theorist. If I ever meet Sanders, I will punch him right in his mouth.

  36. 36.

    rikyrah

    While I want to run up the score. I want Team Hillary to put money in those states, to force the GOP to put money , that they don’t have, into those states.

  38. 38.

    satby

    @Baud: true. I’m hoping to pull him back to sanity, but he fell for the Bern hook line and sinker. My kids tend to be apolitical, probably because I’m so into it. They spent their formative years helping me do leaflets and coming up to the polling place on election day because I was a judge.

  41. 41.

    rikyrah

    @maryQ:
    That is so cute. But, I appreciate most about Hillary is that she KNOWS that boring policy stuff. For me, her competency is very soothing.

  42. 42.

    Keith P.

    @rikyrah: What’s funny is that Team Trump is forcing them to as well. And Trump’s gonna try to keep as many funds as possible to pay off whatever debts he’s legally allowed to (I’m pretty much assuming now that his campaign has been a way to finance maintenance and a refresh on his plane and helicopter)

  44. 44.

    Baud

    @satby:

    he fell for the Bern hook line and sinker

    Except Bernie now supports Hillary. So he didn’t fall hard enough.

  46. 46.

    rikyrah

    @Keith P.:
    I don’t think that they have been in the position where a candidate thought that the CAMPAIGN was the grifting trough. The GOP doesn’t know how to deal with that.

  47. 47.

    Matt McIrvin

    The 538 nowcast is a bit silly. There are zero polls showing Clinton ahead in South Carolina. I’m not sure there have been any general-election polls in the state this cycle at all.

  48. 48.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @satby: Never mind Bernie, put your son in time out and tell him he can come out when he starts thinking critically again.

  50. 50.

    satby

    @Baud: Bern was playing with fire by repeating a lot of the right wing crazy about Clinton, and talking about rigged elections and corrupt parties. And though he fell in line, he didn’t really repudiate that. Hard to walk back from “corruption, corruption, corruption” to “never mind”.
    Pisses me off because I knew it would have this effect on some susceptible newer voters. I just never thought my kid would fall for it.

  52. 52.

    debbie

    @Baud:

    As long as he did better than Le Clos. What a jerk that guy was, hoping around in front of him. Le Clos needs a solid loss tonight.

  53. 53.

    Immanentize

    @rikyrah: there are so many parts that I know I am gonna say every day. Like “she watched herself, she watched me! I thought she was an adult…” Works perfectly for my faculty colleagues.

  55. 55.

    Keith P.

    Oh, wow, I just read a TPM article about how “Many people are saying” is now a Twitter trend. I’m loving this, as Trump is more and more pervasively being defined as a joke. Humiliation is the best punishment for him (although I think he’s also looking at a lot of FEC fines when this is all over, which will hurt a lot, too)
    And it’s still early August.

  58. 58.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Matt McIrvin: …OK, RCP lists one Trump vs. Clinton poll for South Carolina… it’s a PPP poll from November, showing Trump +5. We basically know nothing about the situation there other than that it’s a historically red state.

  59. 59.

    Immanentize

    @PsiFighter37: I guess I would ask what is Nikki Haley doing or not doing for Trump or Clinton in S.C.? She actually seems like a natural HRC fangirl (if she were not a republican). Immigrant family, feminist, actually was appalled by the racist murders in her state….

  61. 61.

    Kay

    @Matt McIrvin:

    It makes some sense, though. The states don’t move completely individually. If the Democrat is way up in PA and MI they’re probably also up in OH, just less so. I don’t know but perhaps GA, NC and SC are like that, too.

    The Trump thing is amusing because Donald Trump does not actually know anything about this.

    His campaign people must be fighting with him constantly. He thinks it’s going great if he’s ahead in Texas.

  63. 63.

    dm

    I see these polls and I think: Bradley Effect Bradley Effect Bradley Effect. Who wants to admit to a pollster that they’re voting for an idiot? So… expect Trump to do better at the ballot box than he does in polls.

    (Though, like Pierce, I think a VP debate involving Tim Kaine, Bill Weld, and Whosits the vice-Trump would be a rollicking good time. Wouldn’t hear much from Whosits, though.)

  64. 64.

    NorthLeft12

    Speaking as an interested foreigner please humble these creepy Repubs. They represent everything that is wrong in a democracy and are the enemy of good and responsible government.

    Your country will be better for it.

  66. 66.

    bemused

    @Mary G:

    Oh dear. From vast experience being awake much too early and trying to get back to sleep, watching MJ or anything similar is guaranteed counter productive for me. I either get too pissed off to sleep and it starts my day off shitty or I fall into a bad dream sleep and it starts my day off shitty.

  68. 68.

    one_particular_harbour, fka Botsplainer

    @dm:

    My prediction all along has been that Hill is actually underpolling, that conservative women aged 50+ will go ahead and vote for her in the privacy of the voting booth. They’re polling differently because they’re worried about people overhearing, return calls, direct mail, etc.

    Trump reminds them too much of their husbands.

    It’s gonna play hell with exit polls, while leading to squealing accusations of rampant fraud.

    Expect big surprises, maybe even in the plains.

  69. 69.

    Matt McIrvin

    @dm: “Social desirability bias” cuts both ways. Hate for Clinton runs deep and is particularly intense among loudmouthed, violent assholes, which is probably making some of her supporters very quiet. Who wants to admit that they’re voting for the corrupt shrieking mass-murderer harridan Killory Klin-Ton?

    I am not at all sure that either reluctance actually translates to a reluctance to admit things to pollsters. No Bradley Effect suppressing Trump’s poll numbers showed up in the primaries, and many people predicted it would. (The candidate who consistently outperformed his polling was Ted Cruz, at least until his support collapsed late in the campaign.)

  70. 70.

    Kay

    @dm:

    That gets less likely as Clinton goes to 50%, though. Saying you’re undecided or voting 3rd party is one thing- they may be secretly supporting Trump. I don’t think declared Clinton voters are secretly supporting Trump and 51% is a majority of whatever number constitutes 100%. Then we’re into Trump’s secret states category- The Missing Voter Theory :)

  71. 71.

    one_particular_harbour, fka Botsplainer

    Watching Virginia Republican Rigell take himself out of the GOP.

  73. 73.

    Kenneth Kohl

    Good numbers, indeed, for HC.
    However, it’s not the time to get cocky, we need to play through the whistle. I’d love to tun up the score on this turd.
    (That’s it for sports metaphors until i get more coffee) heh

  75. 75.

    one_particular_harbour, fka Botsplainer

    @Immanentize:

    We see this phenomenon all the time here in the People’s Democratic Socialist Kenyan Shariah Republic of Louisville in the GOP dominated McMansion precincts in the Northeast suburbs. Women win when they run, even identifiable, unabashed liberals and Democrats.

  76. 76.

    JMG

    Susan Collins is the most public “I want it both ways on every issue” pol there is. But I’m wondering if her statement isn’t a shout out to neighboring Republican Kelly Ayotte, telling her to cut Trump loose if she wishes to be re-elected.

  77. 77.

    Poopyman

    @Keith P.:

    And it’s still early August.

    I said it yesterday on the “Letter from 50 Republicans” post that Trump will be out by Labor Day. Mark it.

  78. 78.

    one_particular_harbour, fka Botsplainer

    The MJ crew is now treating Hair Furor like a joke.

    Dude is trashing his brand with each utterance. The good part is that the base that won’t abandon him has no money to visit his properties, invest in his schemes, buy his properties or golf on his courses.

  79. 79.

    NorthLeft12

    @forked tongue: I agree with CP, Kissinger’s endorsement is toxic.

    People on here and elsewhere are pointing at David Duke’s endorsement of Trump as evidence of Trump’s unfitness, but for me [and I expect a lot of others] Mr. Kissinger’s endorsement is potentially worse.
    Kissinger represents a militaristic and intrusive and imperialistic foreign policy that is anti-democratic and anti-humanity. The man is a war criminal ten times over and deserves to inhabit a cell for the rest of his miserable life.

    If K does endorse Hillary, I hope she and her campaign have the brains to ignore it, and if questioned about it gently repudiate it along the lines of “Mr. Kissinger’s foreign policy advice belongs in the past and his unilateral actions/mistakes will not be repeated in a Clinton administration.”

  80. 80.

    Immanentize

    @Poopyman: but are they dishing it out to the RNC to help create a consolidated GOTV machine? I just haven’t seen any info on that. I hope not because if they fail on that task this year, it will hurt them down ballot now and for the next four years. Remember Romney’s amazing voting day field operation app?

    No one else does either.

  81. 81.

    one_particular_harbour, fka Botsplainer

    @Poopyman:

    I don’t know how the mechanics of that would even work. Do you buy him off and have him claim a health reason?

  82. 82.

    Amir Khalid

    My own suspicion about the polling is that I don’t know if the Trump campaign is capable of performing to its candidate’s polling. He might poll at x% in such-and-such state, and fall short of that number on election day because he didn’t have the organisation to get the vote out for him.

  83. 83.

    Baud

    @NorthLeft12:

    People on here and elsewhere are pointing at David Duke’s endorsement of Trump as evidence of Trump’s unfitness,

    Uh no. That endorsement is relevant because Trump is playing to that crowd. If Duke endorsed a generic Republican out of habit, I wouldn’t think much of it.

  84. 84.

    Kay

    @JMG:

    neighboring Republican Kelly Ayotte, telling her to cut Trump loose if she wishes to be re-elected.

    I saw it as they don’t think Ayotte can win, thus freeing Collins to make a principled stand.

  85. 85.

    JMG

    Henry Kissinger is what, about 214 years old now? Who cares what he thinks about anything? He’s in the dustbin of history, has been for a long time, and only we voters over 60 can even remember the guy and his crimes. For the others, he’s a figure who gets a paragraph or two in high school history books.

  86. 86.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Immanentize, thanx, is worth a laugh or 2. Somehow your Reply button has become linked to it tho. I think it is an evil computer plot to drive me crazy. It almost worked.

  87. 87.

    Poopyman

    @one_particular_harbour, fka Botsplainer: My theory, which is mine, is that the fact that most of the world is laughing at him will eventually penetrate that carapace he uses for a skull. And at that point he’ll just say “fuck it”, hopefully live on TV.

    ETA: And at that point he won’t care that the GOP is left to clean up the mess, or how they’ll go about it.

    Good luck, Reince.

  88. 88.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    @Matt McIrvin:

    There are zero polls showing Clinton ahead in South Carolina. I’m not sure there have been any general-election polls in the state this cycle at all.

    My impression is that this – lack of quality state polling – has been a nearly universal problem this cycle. Nate Silver would do the country a great service by commissioning high-quality state polls (e.g. maybe tie up with decent PolySci departments in each of the states). I’m sure the universities would like the visibility and it would help him as well. How to pay for it? Dunno. But grad students work cheap (like they have a choice! :-(.

    We need decent state polling to lessen the chance that the GOP will find a way to steal close races…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  89. 89.

    Emma

    @NorthLeft12: Why do you assume that being endorsed by someone means you owe them a favor in return? Or that you would do their bidding? Hillary is constantly being endorsed by Republicans constantly these days. Should she go out of her way to act Trumpish about it?

  90. 90.

    Waldo

    @Poopyman: I don’t see how Trump leaves without taking most of his fan base with him. Might save the Donald’s delicate ego to bail before he goes over the cliff, but the GOP is going over with him or without him.

  91. 91.

    Immanentize

    @OzarkHillbilly: open link problem. Sorry.

    ETA when I do links on my mobile ( on the train to work right now) I seem to have problems closing off the link when I create one. It has happened a couple of times…. I am certain it is operator error.

  92. 92.

    Shalimar

    @rikyrah: Money, or Trump’s time. It would be funny if the last 30 days of the campaign was a Trump tour of states the GOP hasn’t lost in 30 years.

  93. 93.

    Patricia Kayden

    If these great numbers keep up for Secretary Clinton (which I suspect they will), we may flip the House in November. This could turn out to be a wave election.

    @Amir Khalid: Trump probably thinks that his voters love him so much that they’ll come out to vote for him in droves without any get-out-the-vote efforts on his campaign’s part. He strikes me as someone who will do the absolute minimum to get votes which is basically giving some speeches and tweeting.

  94. 94.

    Patricia Kayden

    @rikyrah: From what the media is telling me, Trump has pretty much caught up with Secretary Clinton’s fundraising. But letting Conservatives waste their money on Trump’s losing campaign is fine with me.

  95. 95.

    Patricia Kayden

    Joe Scarborough is again claiming that Trump is a Democrat. What an idiot. If he’s a Democrat, why did you all support him and make him your candidate?

  96. 96.

    Gin & Tonic

    @NorthLeft12: Except David Duke was never Secretary of State of the US, which is why his endorsement, saying “white supremacists are with you” can be more poisonous than Kissinger’s, which says “Secretaries of State are with you.”

    I yield to no one here in my hatred of Kissinger, but if HRC didn’t ask for the endorsement, I see it as not much of a factor. And certainly for anyone under 40, Kissinger is pretty well irrelevant.

  97. 97.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @NorthLeft12: There is just a wee tiny little difference between David Duke endorsing Trump as an affirmative action (“He will put the white race back on top!”) and Kissinger endorsing Clinton as a default action (“Well, at least she is sane.”) I would hope thinking people could tell the difference. In fact, if someone couldn’t tell the difference, I would have to question whether they even had a brain.

  98. 98.

    MattF

    @Patricia Kayden: Um, particularly the day after Trump’s [air quotes] ‘economic policy’ speech. Wherein Trump went full-metal trickle-down. It’s your party, Joe, and you can cry if you want to– but it’s yours.

  100. 100.

    one_particular_harbour, fka Botsplainer

    @Patricia Kayden:

    He’s a rich guy who inherited wealth and is lazy as shit.

    In addition, among conservatives, GOTV effort doesn’t yield nearly the return.

  102. 102.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    @NorthLeft12:

    I agree with CP, Kissinger’s endorsement is toxic.

    I’m not seeing it.

    I think the thing that most people think of when they hear Kissinger’s name is, “Is he still alive?”.

    Kissinger was SOS/NSA. He didn’t set policy. He argued for what he wanted, of course, but Nixon (and Ford) set the policy – they’re the people responsible. I don’t see people arguing that Ford should have been sent to the Hague.

    Kissinger was last in office in January 1977 – nearly 40 years ago. That’s more than the median age in the US – so half the population was born after he left office. It’s ancient history to them (and many of us) and we shouldn’t be rending our garments about it, any more than we should have paid attention to Edward Teller’s thoughts about SDI in the ’80s. They were/are both very old men who should have retired because the world had/has left them behind.

    Yes, learn from history, and yes note his history when talking about him, but don’t use him as a cudgel to tarnish a very fine candidate who must win, and needs to win with long coat-tails. Charlie is a fine and entertaining writer, and can write important pieces, but he also can go off on butt-hurt tangents (as he’s done with Obama a few times).

    My $0.02.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  103. 103.

    one_particular_harbour, fka Botsplainer

    Hey, what’s with that thing on that guy’s face?

    And who asked the question about entitlements, that shitstain Halperin?

  105. 105.

    bystander

    @Mary G: Moanin’ Joe is definitely not something to watch right before bedtime. It’s known to induce sleeplessness in the lucky and nightmares in those less fortunate.

    @Amir Khalid: I’m not Irish at all but I find Pierce highly amusing. He’s taken a few Purity Pony rides around the arena that I find offputting, tho.

    Sure, Kissinger is awful. But Clinton is not going to go full Trump on him and show open disrespect for one of the opposing party’s leading intellects. His endorsement means nothing. If she appoints him to,her cabinet, let’s revisit the issue.

  107. 107.

    low-tech cyclist

    @PsiFighter37:

    SC for Clinton? No way…

    I’m trying to imagine the huge quantities of finite Improbability that would be required to move SC into the Dem column, and I can’t get my head around those sorts of numbers.

  108. 108.

    Shalimar

    @Amir Khalid: I am not sure a major American party has ever had a candidate who thought his supporters would all go to the polls on their own because he was so awesome. If great organization was really a big difference between Obama and Romney/McCain, then it should mean Trump gets at least 5% below his projections. And his projections are beginning to look really horrible.

  109. 109.

    Matt McIrvin

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: Was it any better last time? Keep in mind that it’s still pretty early in the general-election cycle for there to be a real poll flood, though the conventions were unusually early this year so people care more than they typically do.

    Also, nobody really expected that they might be wondering whether South Carolina is a battleground state. I’d sure like to see some post-DNC polls in Ohio, though–there aren’t any.

  112. 112.

    Patricia Kayden

    @Baud: Woo hoo!! More please.

    Trump is on his way to a beat down come November. Somehow it never occurred to him that in the general election, he’d have to appeal to all those yucky Black and Brown people he hates so much. Sad!

  113. 113.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    @Patricia Kayden: Things don’t change until they do.

    Bill won Georgia in 1992. SC was a strong Democratic state until 1960 (yes, I know the party was very different then).

    I don’t expect Hillary to win SC, and even Georgia would be difficult this time. But almost nobody expected Obama to win Indiana in 2008, also too.

    If Trump keeps imploding, lots of opportunities will present themselves. Hillary seems to have a good team. I assume they’re looking at all the options very carefully.

    More data is good. Even if Hillary has no chance in SC, knowing that now via hard data would be important information (to indicate where time, money, and effort would be better spent).

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  114. 114.

    gvg

    @geg6: We are a nation of about 330 million. Millions will vote for either candidate in every election. Odds are some of them will be monsters and murderers. It doesn’t disqualify the candidates unless they have policies that are designed to attract murderers. Trumps courting of white supremists can be argued as doing exactly that. I don’t see how Hillary’s policies do anything like that. Explicitly being the candidate that knows enough to avoid nuclear war is pretty much the opposite of a killer policy. Kissinger isn’t stupid. why should it be an indictment of Hillary when both selfish self interest AND morals coincide?
    Pierce have any personal connection to Kissinger’s crimes? sometimes people aren’t very logical when it’s personal.

  115. 115.

    trnc

    Did you hear that giant sucking sound? It was the sound of every republican teleprompter joke being flushed down the memory hole.

  117. 117.

    one_particular_harbour, fka Botsplainer

    Added thoughts:

    1). Renegotiating trade deals: this is his business model; everything is negotiable long after you’ve received your benefit of the bargain. It is sleazy as fuck, and that’s what he is, what he does. As POTUS, he has the largest military on earth and a huge economy to back him up.

    2) He really will govern as a fascist dictator: propaganda from his surrogates is fluid, and twists to satisfy his preferred position. He bears grudges and acts on them.

  118. 118.

    Comrade Scrutinizer

    @Poopyman: Only if Trump himself pulls the plug. The Republicans have no mechanism to replace him. From what I’ve seen of his ego, the only thing that would make him say “Fuck this” would be boredom. He’s surrounded by sycophants, he doesn’t care about anything outside that circle, he certainly doesn’t care about Party, and he’s already getting the rigged election /Dolchstoßlegende explain for why he lost loaded up. So why are you so sure he’s pulling out in no more than 3 weeks?

  121. 121.

    Cat48

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:

    You are correct about Kissinger. He was not CIC. Hillary has not been CIC & I’ve had it with blaming her for Iraq, Libya-a NATO operation, and the Honduras coup, for some reason??? I never understood that one.

  122. 122.

    Jeffro

    @one_particular_harbour, fka Botsplainer: I tend to agree with this…if anything, Clinton might pick up a point or two that isn’t being shown in the polls.

    Btw that Drezner tweet/Daily Caller article in the previous thread…holy cow…it’s mid-August and some Rs are calling for a “negotiated surrender” to HRC??!? Wow o wow.

    Oh and also hell no – no we’re not going to give the GOP a SCOTUS pick, unh uh – they deserve everything they’ve got coming to them, in spades.

  123. 123.

    MattF

    @Comrade Scrutinizer: I don’t see Trump willingly pulling the plug. As long as there’s a possibility, however remote, that he could have his finger on the nuclear button, he’s gonna stay in the race, IMO.

  124. 124.

    Patricia Kayden

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:

    Even if Hillary has no chance in SC, knowing that now via hard data would be important information (to indicate where time, money, and effort would be better spent).

    Agreed. If there was an election in which a Democrat could win red states, this one may be it given Trump’s implosion.

  128. 128.

    Patricia Kayden

    @MattF: Funny how Trump’s advisors never warned him that running to his base was over once he got the nomination. Trump has no message for regular Americans who don’t buy into his xenophobia. And the Republican National Convention just reinforced how White the GOP has become.

  129. 129.

    one_particular_harbour, fka Botsplainer

    @Jeffro:

    Yeah, this is the moment when Hillary goes all Michael Corleone on the GOP, offers nothing and demands that they pay off any lingering campaign debt.

  130. 130.

    SFAW

    @Kay:

    thus freeing Collins to make a principled stand.

    I’m thinking you mean Ray Collins (Lt. Tragg) or Doug Collins (hoopster) or Eddie Collins (HOF second baseman), because the words “principled stand” do not belong in proximity to Susan Collins.

  131. 131.

    Baud

    @Jeffro:

    no we’re not going to give the GOP a SCOTUS pick, unh uh

    Right. I guess it’s not crazy to try to ask for something — like maybe Secretary of Transportation — but a Supreme Court justice on a 4-4 court. Get outta here!

  133. 133.

    Woodrowfan

    Duke endorsed Trump because they’re both racists.
    Kissinger may endorse Clinton because he doesn’t want a nuclear war.
    not quite the same thing. One is saying “he shares my vile ideology.” the other is saying “she’s competent and not a fing loon”

    (I agree that HK is vile though)

  135. 135.

    rikyrah

    @one_particular_harbour, fka Botsplainer:

    In addition, among conservatives, GOTV effort doesn’t yield nearly the return.

    in regular years, sure.

    But, the entire GOP premise about Trump is that his candidacy has found all those White voters that didn’t come out in 2008 and 2012. These are people who do not usually vote. Which is why GOTV needs to find them.

  137. 137.

    Comrade Scrutinizer

    @MattF: Yeah. For Trump it’s all about waving his dick and doubling down. Like I said, he’s already got his excuses for losing arranged, so he’s just going to keep on. If this were a political thriller and not real life, shadowy GOP godfathers would be plotting an “accident” to be blamed on brown jihadist illegal immigrants who received help from HC personally (discovered by Wikileaks in a deleted email) with Cruz/Ryan/Zombie Reagan picking up the angry Trumpkin voters and driving through to victory. Murika (Fuck yeah!) is saved!

  141. 141.

    Cat48

    I live in SC & I think she will win Charleston County, where I live, and about 26 other counties, which are predominantly black or Hispanic, and in College towns. That’s what Obama won both times. The upper part of Greenville & the mountains are very conservative. Maybe they won’t vote, but the upper part is tea party heaven so they would vote Libertarian, if not Trump. Hillz may do better than O, we’ll see.

  142. 142.

    Peale

    @Gin & Tonic: yep. Kissinger’s endorsement doesn’t bring anything but the unindicted war criminal vote. I guess he might be the last Nixon Admininstration endorsement that matters. Although who is G. Gordon Liddy or Chuck Colson endorsing?

  144. 144.

    Immanentize

    @Baud: @OzarkHillbilly:
    I just don’t understand the whole deal idea. What does Hollary get that she doesn’t now have? All her judges confirmed within 60 days? I would trade a cabinet post for that. But otherwise this is just a loser seeking some face saving out after being vanquished. Either this is their first play in continued obstruction, or they are starting to realize that they will have to make deals after the election. The rational choice is the latter so I suspect it’s the former.

  145. 145.

    D58826

    I’m not sure if this is sick or sad. MAybe sad for the parents and sick for Klayman

    The parents of two Americans killed in the 2012 terrorist attacks on U.S. diplomatic facilities in Benghazi, Libya, filed a wrongful death lawsuit in federal court Monday against Hillary Clinton.

    In the suit, Patricia Smith and Charles Woods, the parents of Sean Smith and Tyrone Woods, claim that Clinton’s use of a private e-mail server contributed to the attacks. They also accuse her of defaming them in public statements.

    Smith was an information management officer and Woods was a security officer, both stationed in Benghazi.

    Image: US-VOTE-REPUBLICANS-CONVENTION

    Patricia Smith, mother of Benghazi victim Sean Smith, addresses the Republican National Convention on July 18, 2016 at Quicken Loans Arena in Cleveland, Ohio. ROBYN BECK / AFP – Getty Images

    “The Benghazi attack was directly and proximately caused, at a minimum by defendant Clinton’s ‘extreme carelessness’ in handling confidential and classified information,” such as the location of State Department employees in Libya, the lawsuit said.

    While no such connection has ever been established, their lawsuit called it “highly probable” that Clinton sent and received information about the activities of U.S. Ambassador Christopher Stevens.

    Such information, the lawsuit claimed, “easily found its way to foreign powers” and was then obtained by Islamic terrorists.

    James Comey, in announcing the findings of the FBI’s investigation of her private e-mail server last month, said it was “possible that hostile actors gained access” to it. But he said the FBI did not find direct evidence that it was successfully hacked.

    The two parents also said when Secretary Clinton met with them after their children were killed, she said that a controversial YouTube video was the motivation for the attacks. But they said that in later interviews she denied making such a statement and implied that the recollection of the parents was incorrect.

    In a speech to the Republican convention in Cleveland, Smith said, “I blame Hillary Clinton personally for the death of my son.”

    The parents were represented by Washington, D.C., lawyer Larry Klayman, a frequent critic of the Clintons.

    In response to the suit, Nick Merrill, a Clinton campaign spokesman, said “While no one can imagine the pain of the families of the brave Americans we lost at Benghazi, there have been nine different investigations into this attack and none found any evidence whatsoever of any wrongdoing on the part of Hillary Clinton.”

    And one campaign official noted that Klayman is the founder or “Freedom Watch,” a conservative group that “has been unsuccessfully attacking the Clintons for decades.”

    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/two-benghazi-parents-sue-hillary-clinton-wrongful-death-defamation-n625861

  147. 147.

    Frankensteinbeck

    I don’t care how many states Hillary wins, as long as she wins. What I want to know is how this will affect down-ticket races! I’m hoping these polls mean massive ‘stay home and not vote’ GOP results.

    I also don’t care if Kissinger endorses Hillary. I do care if she endorses him, which doesn’t seem likely.

    @Cat48:
    THANK you for remembering Libya was a NATO operation. The historical revisionism on that drives me nuts.

  148. 148.

    Barb2

    @one_particular_harbour, fka Botsplainer:

    It can be dangerous for the wife of old white guys to admit they are going against da old man. I’ve read a few reports of domestic violence because wife did break her silence re her vote for Clinton. Male Trump supporters can be intense (cult like reverence of Trump).

    So yes I am expecting deep discussions about faulty poll numbers, post election.

  149. 149.

    Eric U.

    that map is just silly. Would be nice if the blue went all the way around though, if we’re dreaming. Then it wouldn’t just be the coastal elites

  152. 152.

    Kay

    Trump on Fox, asked how he’ll get his campaign back on track: “Well I think it’s just, you know, steadiness”

    I love how FOX has been exposed as this crazy sexual harassment/black ops hostile workplace and they’re all planning on pretending no one knows :)

    They should offer Trump a show. Right now. He can just as easily make shit up there as on “the campaign trail”. What’s the difference, really?

  154. 154.

    MattF

    @Eric U.: Well, in addition to the coastal elites, there’s a large number of… actual people… living near the coasts.

  155. 155.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:

    I love how FOX has been exposed as this crazy sexual harassment/black ops hostile workplace and they’re all planning on pretending no one knows :)

    New Vanity Fair article all about Fox Noise.

  156. 156.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Immanentize: It’s just empty loser fandom talk. Now if Mitch McConnell or Paul Ryan said something like that, it would have meaning, as in it would mean that they were surrendering whatever was left of their political careers.

  158. 158.

    Kay

    @rikyrah:

    Here’s my question. If you’re a journalist and there’s systemic sexual harassment and a “black ops” department at your employer, do you have an obligation to report on that?

    It’s news, right? They could have been whistleblowers without leaving that building.

  159. 159.

    MomSense

    @satby:

    My mom’s an afterberner and started in this morning on how she hates Clinton’s voice. My kid started in with the “seriously?” in that tone only a kid can do. He was telling her that the constant yelling in that nasal, gravelly voice Sanders did was 1000 times more annoying. At one point my mom complained that Hillz keeps changing her hairstyle. We all had a good laugh about that since my mom came home from having highlights at the salon–with tiger stripes.

    Not sure if der Trump’s horrible comments about the Somali community in Maine have been discussed here but the amazing thing has been how fantastic the response has been. State Senator Nate Libby (he was an SEIU organizer for health care reform) represents a district that has a large Somali population and spoke so brilliantly about what model citizens they are. My older kids and their former cross country teammates have been posting photos of races (and parties) with the Somali students they competed against in cross country back in high school with captions like “so proud to have lost races to my friends ______”. Love trumps hate.

  163. 163.

    Belafon

    @MomSense:

    At one point my mom complained that Hillz keeps changing her hairstyle.

    You would think women wouldn’t be caught up in judging another woman that way.

  168. 168.

    Kay

    Oh, God. That manic, blank-eyed look they all have is actually terror:

    Up above, I was talking about phone hacking. Dylan’s second story today is a reality check about phone TAPPING, which was a pervasive fear inside Ailes’ network. He writes: “Many Fox News hosts, on-air personalities and producers have long feared that Ailes tapped their phones and was monitoring their conversations.”
    “We all believe our phones are tapped and that we are monitored,” one Fox News personality told Dylan, echoing the fears of others who asked not to be quoted. “People definitely felt that the clicks on the line were coming from the inside,” said another…

  169. 169.

    SFAW

    @Poopyman:

    I strongly suspect the Youngs totally whiffed on that reference.

    That’s because, unlike you, we are not as old as brontosauri. (Brontosauruses?)

  171. 171.

    yellowdog

    @Matt McIrvin: It’s based on weighting SC as if its electorate were moving like the national polls. I don’t think anyone has polled SC since the primaries.

  172. 172.

    NotMax

    Washington did not win D.C.

    No one running for president did until (sorry, raven) LBJ, who became the first to get the D.C. electoral votes, created by dint of the 23rd Amendment.

  173. 173.

    Kay

    @MattF:

    That’s just to save face, though. He has to give normal GOP speeches now, and he’s terrible at giving speeches. It’s not just that those aren’t his words- he’s bad at it.

  174. 174.

    schrodinger's cat

    @MomSense: I had a Somali student in my College Algebra class at UMaine, she was a bit surly like most teenagers are but was one of my better students.

    As for Hillary’s hairstyles, I don’t judge her on that one, I have sported every length from Rachel Maddow’s pixie to waist length hair. Haters can hate, its my hair and I will do what I want with it.

  176. 176.

    Applejinx

    @Baud: No, not Secretary of Transportation.

    I live in a town with an Amtrak station. I’d like to see that expanded and made more useful, so I don’t want Republicans anywhere near transportation. Of all the places that you DON’T want privatizing, drown-in-the-bathtub people, transportation is up there. We need roads and bridges and rail and stuff like that, it’s infrastructure.

  177. 177.

    schrodinger's cat

    @Belafon: I take it you haven’t met any women IRL. Women are much more judgmental about other women’s appearances like men are just not. Read GOMI’s fashion blogger threads to see what I mean.

    * Get Off My Internets

  179. 179.

    hovercraft

    @Woodrowfan:
    Pete Williams of NBC said much of the suit is based on speculation that her e-mail was successfully hacked, and the information about Ambassador Steven’s movements, was passed on to the Benghazi terrorists. Williams pointed out that the FBI said her e-mail was not hacked, there were attempts but none succeeded. Like most of his lawsuits it will fail.

  180. 180.

    Miss Bianca

    @D58826: Except Klayman’s efforts haven’t been “unsuccessful”. They may not have achieved their stated purpose, but they have been damnably successful in advancing the cause of Clinton Derangement Syndrome. Who would have known or cared about the damned emails except for that crazy mofo?

    I don’t know why he hasn’t been censured and disbarred yet. But this being a political season where a girl can dream, I’m gonna dream that some judge is finally going to put the hammer down on him.

  181. 181.

    Immanentize

    @Kay: I don’t think they need to go that far (outside reporting). Every big corporation has a policy regarding whistleblower privacy and under discrimination laws, those with any supervisory capacity have a duty to report any complaint of harassment. Lest they become a defendant in the ultimate harassment lawsuit like: “I went to _________ and told him I was being lewdly propositioned by so and so and _________ told me that it was just guys being guys and that I should just brush it off ”

    And whistleblower policies are mandatory in most states. At my workplace, if it is the president you want to complain about, You have to go to Legal Counsel who must then notify certain Board members who must then Investigate. I’ve seen this process up close and it really focused attention.

    But if the whole place is a big boys locker room – like FOX appears to be, maybe leaking/reporting is the best option.

  182. 182.

    hovercraft

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    Yes she was, but there is one president, when he goes around the room and everyone gives their two cents, he/she has to make the call. The Bin Laden raid was not unanimous, for those who recommended not going, they are not accused of failure, why is Libya different? Obama listened to his advisors on Syria, and he accepted their recommendation to go in. He then went for a walk and changed his mind. The president makes the call. Unlike Bush who listened to Cheney until it was too late for the millions now dead, injured or displaced. In-spite of the right wing conspiracy theories, Obama is the president and he makes the decision. Advisors advise, the president decides.

  183. 183.

    Poopyman

    @Miss Bianca:

    @D58826: Except Klayman’s efforts haven’t been “unsuccessful”. They may not have achieved their stated purpose, but they have been damnably successful in advancing the cause of Clinton Derangement Syndrome.

    Right. This keeps Hillary’s Benghazimailgate issues in the news for … how many cycles? How long does this turd have to flow through the system before it gets dismissed? Is this one of those things that can get tossed out immediately, or does it have to linger a while, allowing the telepundits to speculate ad infinitum?

  185. 185.

    Kay

    @Immanentize:

    Oh, I don’t question that they had to sue, or, actually, wait for Carson to sue. Outside of any corporate policy, though, a secret threat/political shop at a company that promotes itself as a news agency IS news. It just is. If there were some kind of workplace violence incident at FOX it wouldn’t matter that it was “at FOX”. It’s just news.

  186. 186.

    retiredeng

    @SFAW: The only real difference between Susan Collins and Kelly Ayotte is that Collins didn’t sign the Iran letter. Collins is slightly less odious than Ayotte.

  187. 187.

    D58826

    @Miss Bianca: KLayman of course puts the lie to the ‘scandal’ that all of the Clinton enemies die mysteriously. He would have been a small pile of grey ash a long time ago if it were true.

    I have always thought that the entire e-mail server thing was a way to try and prevent Klayman and others from filing FOIA requests on every thing, hoping to find something they can twist into a ‘scandal’ Obviously didn’t work out so well. Probably also the reason why Hillary keeps tripping over why she set the thing up in the first place.

  189. 189.

    different-church-lady

    Saw that map last night and had such a hard time believing S. Carolina was even a pale shade of blue that I looked for which polls Nate was working with. But the latest set his lists are from November. So I’m not at all certain what method his digital contraptions use to put SC in Hillary’s column.

    Second: I haven’t read any but a few comments just above this one yet, but I see people talking about the Clayman lawsuit. So I’m going to guess srv dropped a turd in this here punch bowl. [Goes to look…] Nope, pleasantly wrong.

  190. 190.

    Miss Bianca

    @satby:

    Good morning everyone. My youngest son living in California has turned full Bernie nutball conspiracy theorist. If I ever meet Sanders, I will punch him right in his mouth.

    I don’t know if I’d punch him in the mouth, but I might certainly have a few choice words for him.

    Like…”way to go, bud. Thanks for doing your best to tie an anchor round the neck of the Democratic Party and toss it into the ocean.”

    I went to our Democratic Central Committee meeting last night. Found out from our party chairman that one of the women who had been one of the most avid Bernie supporters there had sent the chairman a letter saying that since Bernie wasn’t getting the nomination, she was no longer going to be a Democrat. This is a woman in her 60s or 70s. I asked, “did she *really* think that Bernie was going to get the nomination at the party convention?” Apparently so, all evidence pointing conclusively and overwhelmingly to the contrary…

    That’s what I blame Senator Sanders for. Not for inspiring fanatical devotion to the Pope – sorry, from his supporters – but for encouraging his supporters to think “The System is Rigged”, and poisoning the well for the Democratic Party.

  191. 191.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @hovercraft:

    Advisors advise, the president decides.

    Yes but saying all that just comes down to, “Well, she gave *bad advice* but it’s HIS fault for following it!” In other words, it is just deflection from her responsibility in this affair.

    *there is an argument that it wasn’t bad advice, but nobody is even making that argument. The real mistake with Libya was, once again, doing an intervention on the cheap. That IS NATO’s fault, but I don’t hear anyone saying Hillary argued for more post Ghaddafi forces/money/personnel.

  192. 192.

    FlipYrWhig

    Henry Kissinger, for fuck’s sake, who cares already? I wonder if there are any Dulles family members still left for proxy hatred purposes.

  194. 194.

    D58826

    @hovercraft:

    the information about Ambassador Steven’s movements, was passed on to the Benghazi terrorists.

    Even if the server was successfully hacked it really is a stretch to believe that the hackers were either the attackers in Libya or some other hacker knew of the group in Libya. That goes beyond unicorns and space aliens

  195. 195.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Miss Bianca:

    I asked, “did she *really* think that Bernie was going to get the nomination at the party convention?” Apparently so

    Yeah, I’ve read MANY stories about Berniacs who apparently truly believed that the convention was anyone’s game. That might explain why they treated it in the first few days like Battle of the Bands, where the loudest applause takes the prize. Thanks for pulling that shit, Sanders campaign.

  196. 196.

    Immanentize

    @Kay: Absolutely true. But I thought their ‘news’ focus was predetermined by Ailes every morning at a briefing. Didn’t seem like there were many independent follow-your-nose opportunities.

  198. 198.

    FlipYrWhig

    @D58826: My wife’s grandmother lived in the same farmhouse for 70 or so years, and things tended to be very quiet. One day someone pulled into the driveway and the phone rang at pretty much the same time, and she was very anxious, because, as she put it, “somehow it was all related.” That seems like the Benghazi theory: there were hackers and there were terrorists and SOMEHOW IT WAS ALL RELATED.

  199. 199.

    Jeffro

    @Baud:

    Right. I guess it’s not crazy to try to ask for something — like maybe Secretary of Transportation — but a Supreme Court justice on a 4-4 court. Get outta here!

    They can ask all they want, and she should laugh in their faces at even the smallest request. She’s been smeared for over 30 years by these folks…and they’re the ones who won’t even do their job and confirm Garland. Simply carrying out ‘normal’ governance instead of beating them about the head and neck is a mercy they don’t even deserve.

    I have faith that she’ll remind them of that on a weekly basis. =)

  200. 200.

    Librarian

    Actually, from what I’ve heard, Hillary was actively soliciting Kissinger’s endorsement.

  201. 201.

    Jeffro

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    I don’t care how many states Hillary wins, as long as she wins. What I want to know is how this will affect down-ticket races! I’m hoping these polls mean massive ‘stay home and not vote’ GOP results.

    And that’s another thing: no matter how big Clinton’s EV win is, the Kochs & Co are still going to carpet bomb the down ticket races with hundreds of millions of dollars, resist overturning CU, and resist any sort of campaign finance limits being restored. They’ll also gladly pay Rs in the Senate and House to obstruct her administration in every way possible. So…unless they’re willing to give up THAT, she shouldn’t even entertain their pleas for mercy.

  202. 202.

    BC in Illinois

    @gvg:

    Pierce have any personal connection to Kissinger’s crimes? sometimes people aren’t very logical when it’s personal.

    Charles P. Pierce was born in 1953. He would have been 19 when the era of LBJ [all together now–“Fuck LBJ”] turned to the era of Nixon [all together now–“Fuck Nixon”] and Kissinger.

    Being in one’s 20s at the time of Kissinger–as I can attest–could well inculcate in one a life-long loathing for the immoral [insert epithet here] that is Henry Kissinger. I give LBJ credit for the Civil Rights and Voting Rights and Great Society legislation. I give Nixon limited hangout credit for the clean air act and–I forget–something else. I have only loathing for Henry Kissinger and have heard of nothing to tell me differently.

    So yes, for people who turned 20 during the era of Kissinger, it can be personal.

  205. 205.

    BC in Illinois

    @BC in Illinois:
    I will now correct my math. I was going off of the election of ’72 [Watergate] rather than the election of ’68 [Kissinger in Paris].
    Charles P. Pierce was 15 when Nixon/Kissinger came in. Early 20s when Nixon, and then Kissinger, left. My point is the same, just 4 years off. [I find myself 4 years older than CPP.]

  206. 206.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Immanentize:

    And whistleblower policies are mandatory in most states.

    Speaking from personal experience, being a whistleblower means you go through an ugly process with significant legal costs as the employer tries to smear and discredit you in every way possible…and then you lose your job. Statistics bear that out too. Frankly, few people would want to stay in what will inevitably be a hostile work environment anyway, but whistleblowing typically comes at great personal cost. The primary comfort is knowing you did the right thing.

  210. 210.

    Jeffro

    @Miss Bianca:

    That’s what I blame Senator Sanders for. Not for inspiring fanatical devotion to the Pope – sorry, from his supporters – but for encouraging his supporters to think “The System is Rigged”, and poisoning the well for the Democratic Party.

    He seems to be un-poisoning it okay…let’s get him up on TV saying true progressives must vote for HRC not Stein, and I’ll consider it all squared away.

  213. 213.

    1,000 Flouncing Lurkers (was fidelioscabinet)

    @low-tech cyclist: Romney only beat Obama in South Carolina by about 11% of the vote. His advantage in Georgia was 9% and in Mississippi 12%. I know that in Mississippi in 2012 Obama got only about 10% of the white vote, and we honestly have no idea how white women will vote there (or in Georgia or South Carolina) this time around. It would take work, and given that Mississippi has 6 electoral votes and South Carolina 9, while Georgia has 16, Clinton may decide she’d rather put the effort into down-ticket races., But all three of these states have a determined and well-organized African-American electorate–Mississippi has the largest number of elected black officials in the country, and has for a good many years.

    I would be amazed to find out that Hillary had a chance in Alabama, Tennessee, or Louisiana, going by the 2012 results. But Georgia is already being talked about as a potential swing state, and while I don’t see a lot of Republicans losing state or local office there or in Mississippi and South Carolina, the presidential vote could be different this year. The choice of Tim Kaine as running mate didn’t harm her in any of these states, although I doubt he’ll be the reason people vote for her, if they do.

  215. 215.

    James E Powell

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I guess what surprises me the most is that anyone would care what Kissinger has to say about a candidate. He’s been out of the game for a long time, he has no influence on policy, and his endorsement has no value with voters.

    The idea that one’s support for a candidate would hinge on whether some despised person also supports the candidate is ridiculous. Charles Pierce is usually not ridiculous.

  217. 217.

    grandpa john

    @Cat48: As is The area where I live. Abbeville known as the birthplace and deathbed of the Confederacy, first meeting advocating secession, held on a hillside within view of my house. and the last meeting of Davis and his cabinet before being captured shortly after leaving for Washington Ga in a house one block from where I live. Ironically , the two sites, with a few buildings removed, are in sight of each other

  220. 220.

    Feebog

    Not sure why folks are dismissing So. Carolina as a fantasy. Obama carried No. Carolina in 2008, and several polls have Clinton ahead there now. The question should be, how close are the demographics between the two Carolinas? What is the traditional turnout of Black voters in SC? What percentage of white voters vote democratic in Presidential years? I assume 538 has all that information at hand is engaging in somewhat informed speculation at this point.

  221. 221.

    Lurking Canadian

    @Jeffro: The only reason negotiated surrender exists as a thing is that once you have the enemy surrounded and cut off, they can still kill a lot of your people if you insist on fighting to the death. The loser still has something the victor wants.

    In this case, what does Hillary get in exchange for the SC? An endorsement? Great, that and $5 buys you a grande mocha at Starbucks.

    If they could deliver “I promise no fillibusters” or “the House will work with you on legislation”, then they might have something to bargain with. But actually they have dick. So she should just laugh at the suggestion and move on.

  223. 223.

    Miss Bianca

    @Jeffro: I too await this development. In the meantime, I don’t mind the man himself, so much – parts of his message resonated with me, too – but I still deplore the tactics he used to such devastating effect on people who apparently didn’t realize that The Revolution! (TM) would, in fact, be televised.

  224. 224.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Poopyman: If Trumpolini drops out he loses his usefulness to the Russki oligarchs. At a minimum they call in their chits & collapse his financial house of cards. The Murican oligarchs would have to cough up enough to cover his losses. But I imagine his Mafiya contacts have already warned him about trying to weasel out, no doubt hinting that their capabilities of sending no-longer-useful idiots off to their infernal rewards have gotten far more effective & undetectable since the days of ricin bumbershoots & polonium-210…

  225. 225.

    Dadadadadadada

    @dm: But Trump’s GOTV operation will be putrid, and HRC’s will be colossal. I therefore expect Trump’s actual results to noticeably underperform his polling, because so many of his current supporters will forget when Election Day is, or will go to the wrong polling place, or forget to register to vote, or will find themselves without a ride to the polls, etc., and that’s not even counting the hordes of them that will lose interest well before November. HRC’s people will be on those issues like white on rice, and the difference will be visible.

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