.
Universally respected commentor LAMH, last night:
@AlGiordano So Paul Ryan's primary is tonight…he's just the type of coward to un-endorse Trump only after he wins that primary
— Nelly B (@psddluva4evah) August 9, 2016
Well, the Zombie-Eyed Granny Starver won his primary last night, for all the joy it’ll bring him:
JANESVILLE, Wis. — House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) reveled in the aftermath of his commanding and expected primary victory Tuesday against Paul Nehlen, a Donald Trump-inspired opponent, by ordering cheese curds and beer for his supporters.
But Ryan’s celebration will be brief, with the skirmish only the latest in this tempest of a year for a Republican Party churning between Ryan’s traditional conservatism and Trump’s flaring populism…
A self-described “movement conservative” whose politics are rooted in the tax-cutting platforms of Republicans past, Ryan has been uneasy from the start about parts of Trump’s candidacy and especially its tenets on trade and immigration.
Nonetheless, the GOP’s 2012 vice-presidential nominee has swallowed hard and endorsed Trump, intent on stitching together his party where possible as he labors to get voters to notice “A Better Way,” the six-pronged policy outline he crafted and unveiled earlier this year, which has proposals to reform poverty programs and cut federal spending…
Deadbeat Donald is spoiling Pauly’s Ayn Rand wet dreams of slashing social services for Those People while providing additional tax relief to America’s Makers. And the godsdamned circus barker isn’t even gonna win!…
Paul Ryan keeps calling on local reporters, hoping for questions not about Trump.
They keep asking about Trump.
— Josh Barro (@jbarro) August 10, 2016
Maybe Ryan can get through the next 91 days claiming to have been too busy to know what Trump has said or done.
— Josh Barro (@jbarro) August 10, 2016
RYAN: Mike's in a horrible position now.
TRUMP: Mike?
RYAN: Pence.
TRUMP: Mike Pence. Right.
RYAN:
TRUMP: Is that a ballplayer, or…?
RYAN:— Owen Ellickson (@onlxn) August 9, 2016
Apart from another tasty schadenfreude breakfast, what’s on the agenda for the day?
rikyrah
Good Morning ? Again, Everyone ?
rikyrah
Up late watching the Olympics. Glad that I will be able to sleep some tonight .
rikyrah
About Ferret Head. ..that pivot is coming any day now. ???
one_particular_harbour, fka Botsplainer
Joe and Mika calling King to account. Who knew?
OzarkHillbilly
@one_particular_harbour, fka Botsplainer: King who?
one_particular_harbour, fka Botsplainer
@OzarkHillbilly:
Peter.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@OzarkHillbilly: I turned it off, but Peter King was scheduled.
David ?▶️Hillary/Harley Quinn 2016▶️? Koch
@rikyrah: That Lilly King is something else. Staring down Russia’s Ivan Drago and then defeating her in the ring. (photo)
Punchy
Trump’s Gloominati will not take kindly to a Ryan victory. Expect insults and petty attacks today. And tomorrow.
Dork
@David ?▶️Hillary/Harley Quinn 2016▶️? Koch: Like Palin, she could see the Russian from her own lane line.
MrSnrub
The top of the hour news on NPR played Trump’s claim that Hillary wants to abolish the 2nd amendment, and his call for 2nd amendment remedies.
They then went on to say that Hillary has never stated that she wants to abolish the 2nd amendment, and that she’s not legally allowed to do so.
So that was nice.
Waldo
I’d been thinking Trump was like Lee J. Cobb’s character from Twelve Angry Men — the last angry holdout on the jury — but lately he’s looking more like this guy.
Ryan
I am sick of hearing Trump and populism in the same sentence. Trump is not a populist media! Trump is a revanchist!
Boudica
@MrSnrub: But then they went on to say Trump has consistently said things that can be interpreted different ways and didn’t talk about how dangerous these comments were.
Jeffro
Almost unbelievably, here we are, with Trump doubling down on his comments and his enablers excusing him as they always do. And the NRA of course jumps right out there to try and provide him with cover (which I’ll never understand – the best thing for gun dealers, unfortunately, is having a Democrat in the White House).
I guess they’re determined to ride this one all the way in, so let’s focus on making this the biggest blowout since 1984. G.O.T.V.
dr. bloor
@one_particular_harbour, fka Botsplainer:
Fuck that. The next three months is going to be a giant festival of so-called “Moderate Republicans” or “True Conservatives” bashing low-hanging fruit like King, so they can sit back and crow that The Party Has Nothng To Do With That Guy’s Message after HRC makes tiny, tiny earring studs out of Trump’s testicles in November.
p.a.
Interesting muzak at the mall during my morning old folks walk: THead’s Don’t Worry About the Government.
Jeffro
@Boudica:
Which is kind of mind-blowing in itself…why would it be okay to say things that could even be interpreted as a death threat to a political opponent and/or her appointees? Why is that acceptable? Or to put it differently, why isn’t that an automatic ‘yer outta there, Donald’?
I hope the Dems get a unified message together about the GOP as a whole needing to define some, any, standards for its leaders. Because they surely have none at this point.
Bill E Pilgrim
@Ryan: The idea that Trump is all about working class supporters is false, but it got set in stone and there’s no budging it now.
The stalwart refusal to see or acknowledge that his whole rise in politics came from his championing of birtherism, which combined racism and religious bigotry, and the insistence that it’s instead about the working class and economics is one of the few consistencies of the idiot media.
Patricia Kayden
@rikyrah: But it’s a 360 degree pivot.
Betty Cracker
Simone Biles has zero respect for the Law of Gravity.
MrSnrub
@Boudica: I had turned off the radio, so I missed that. Still, it’s a step in the right direction.
MattF
@Bill E Pilgrim: It’s occurred to me that Trump’s real target all along has been the Republican party. Once the game widened and started including actual Democrats, he’s been at a loss for a working strategy.
Baud
@Jeffro: That’s too high a standard. Anything can be interpreted as a threat. “We will crush them.” Not disqualifying.
hovercraft
So last night someone on msnbc pointed out that winning his primary would not solve any of Ryan’s problems. The republicans are probably going to retain their house majority, but it will be probably be with an even more conservative majority. The house republicans most likely to lose are the most moderate members, so come January he will be face an even more recalcitrant caucus. So basically if he takes back his endorsement, they will lash out at him, and by not taking it back he is tainting his brand. The beltway people who see him as the savior are concerned that Trump is destroying him. Even Joe and Mika are lamenting the fact that he is destroying a reputation built over 20 years for a Manhattan liberal.
low-tech cyclist
I have no idea who Owen Ellickson is, but he’s got the funniest Twitter feed EVER.
Some more:
RYAN: It’s late here.
TRUMP: Oh, I know. Don’t care, but I know.
RYAN: What’s up?
TRUMP: FYI, tomorrow’s your very last chance to disavow me
TRUMP: If I’m you, I go out there, purse those dumb little lips, bat those big dumb eyes. “Donawd went too faw.”
RYAN: I can pronounce Rs
RYAN: I’ll issue a sharply worded statement in the morning.
TRUMP: Your sharp words couldn’t cut Brie.
RYAN: You’re a demag-
TRUMP: YAAAWWWN
TRUMP: “Sounds like a joke gone bad. I hope he clears it up very quickly.” And then you left the press conference early.
RYAN:
TRUMP: Strong
RYAN: Mike’s in a horrible position now.
TRUMP: Mike?
RYAN: Pence.
TRUMP: Mike Pence. Right.
RYAN:
TRUMP: Is that a ballplayer, or…?
RYAN:
RYAN: What do I do?
[silence]
RYAN: John?
BOEHNER: Dang. Nice save.
RYAN: What?
BOEHNER: Sorry. Watching volleyball. What’s your question?
OzarkHillbilly
@Betty Cracker: Typical lack of respect for laws by black people.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Waldo: Trump was whining like that in his how stupid are the people of Iowa rant when the poll came out showing he was behind to Carson. He’s much worse now.
Great scene from a great movie. Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
hovercraft
@Betty Cracker:
I know, shame on her. And to think she was apparently not as sharp as she usually is. That young lady needs to dig deep and focus. We need her to do better, right now she is still human, a sharp Simone Biles may be out of this world.
Kay
I personally think some conservatives or media people were looking for a statement they could stand on to get on record as opposing Trump.
I’m convinced this happens because I’ve seen it so often with regular voters. They’ve already decided but they need some noble reason to reject the candidate. “That thing he said about that person was all I need to hear!” I think they like it because it makes them look open-minded and fact-driven yet principled :)
The Golux
What are the odds that Drumpf will become the first presidential candidate to be fragged by his own Secret Service detail?
yellowdog
@Waldo: One of the all time great movies! One of my favorites. Great comparison.
Kay
Once they have “the last straw” they do the backwards justification- “I could forgive him pushing his wife down the stairs because reasonable people can disagree and she was the only witness, but what he said about that pastor- there’s no going back”.
MattF
@Kay: I think Susan Collins has demonstrated that the right time to disavow Trump is ‘as soon as possible’. She may have gotten in just under the wire.
kd bart
Interpret Donald Trump. He’s not exactly Martha Graham.
debit
Open thread? I need some advice. John and I have been discussing how to get Walter to Minneapolis, and have come to the conclusion that flying him might be the best option. Does anyone have experience with which airline to go with?
Baud
@Kay: Who’s going to call them on it?
Kay
@MattF:
If Trump were polling ahead of Clinton right now everyone but the “Never Trumpers” would be on board. It’s interesting to watch in Ohio because none of the bigger Goopers are enthusiastic endorsers. It’s all like the loonier members of the lower chamber in the statehouse. Trump is literally the B list. I don’t think he knows enough about these states to know that, because he introduces “a former county commissioner!” like it’s the governor.
Keith P.
@debit: I had my 2 cats I got from here flown to me (Houston) from either Arizona or Alabama. I cannot recall the airline, but I can get you the contact info for the person who shipped them. IIRC it was $400 for both cats, graciously picked up by the person sending the cats. The nice part was that the cats’ crates were stored in an air-conditioned, occupied office while they waited for me.
In 2006, my uncle shipped me 3 cats via a different airline. That time, they were sitting in the baggage terminal, so I won’t even bother asking him for details.
Jeffro
@Baud:
Oh come on…anything you can say in an Ivan Drago voice and then bust out laughing, that is not a threat. But you can say “2nd Amendment remedy” in any voice and it’s not funny.
Let’s call it the Drago standard.
bjacques
Mike Pence looks like Otto Pilot 30 years later.
Yesterday I thought Trump had been trying to say that the NRA would be the only chance to shut down Hillary’s SCOTUS nominations and it would be a terrible day if the 2nd Amendment were abolished.
The “only joking” defense pretty much rules that out.
Big Mouth Strikes Again
dr. bloor
@MattF:
She waited until Nate Silver had Trump finishing behind a 55 gallon drum of used condoms in the aggregate polling. Screw her.
debit
@Keith P.: That would be lovely, thank you. You can contact me at debhatdc at yahoo (dot) com.
OzarkHillbilly
@debit: My first thought was a car relay, that way some of the folks who’ve been sending him blog love could give it in person, and probably less traumatic. I know, not very feasible, unfortunately. Sorry, outside of birds I have no experience with animals and flying.
Baud
@Jeffro: Agree. There’s only one way to interpret Second Amendment in the context of stopping Hillary’s judicial appointments.
low-tech cyclist
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
That was the ONLY time I said he might’ve finally said something to blow his chances to win the nomination. Because calling the voters stupid is never a winning approach.
But the Paris terrorist attacks were the very next day, just in time to blow those remarks right off the radar.
greennotGreen
@debit: Have you guys contacted a local rescue on either end for help with a relay? Walter may be able to hitch a ride.
So, in Tennessee because we’re all about individual rights and not so much about individual responsibilities, we have a surplus of puppies. There are regular transports from the Nashville area to New England and to Michigan (that I know of, may be more.) There may be some west to east in your area, and those drivers have to drive east to west to get back home.
amk
@MattF: And she went back yesterday to say that donnie didn’t mean it. Courageous coward.
Dork
@bjacques: Pretty much Pence is on otto pilot at this point. Havent heard a damn thing from him in weeks.
WereBear
@greennotGreen: I adopted two dogs from a Long Island shelter who got them from different Southern states.
In even the smallest things, red states are parasites.
greennotGreen
@WereBear: I wish it were not true, but it is. Amazing what underfunding schools for generations will accomplish.
MattF
@Kay: True, but Trump’s strategy prevents that from happening. He always goes for ‘divide and conquer’, which means there will always be a divided opinion about him and there will always be a group trying to straddle the point of a political knife.
Richard Grant
@low-tech cyclist: He is a television writer and producer whose credits include The Office (US version). Basically, his Trump tweets amount to a newspaper comic strip without the artwork.
debit
@OzarkHillbilly: I think the logistics of coordinating a relay were just a little overwhelming.
raven
@debit: There are often seasonal restrictions because of weather. Try this
Pet Transportation Destinations
We pride ourselves in offering unparalleled customer service. Our customers have become a part of the Runway Pets family.
WereBear
@greennotGreen: It is not just that; it is such a hierarchal culture (I ran across this in the Midwest, too) that even attempting to better oneself is shut down by other members of the family. It is a kind of mental “guaranteed low slot is better than the possible higher slot” even if they cannot articulate the DANGER of trying to move up from one’s “station.”
Well, actually, having come from small towns, I know. A kid who is trying to move up will also move OUT.
germy
So Paul Ryan won his primary, and he’ll be challenged in November by the Democrat Ryan Solen? Does Solen have a chance, or is the place too gerrymandered?
Solen has some good ideas:
raven
@OzarkHillbilly: I flew Ralph to LA for the 83 Rose Bowl. We barely got out of Champaign to St Looie. We changed planes and I remember seeing his carrier on the runway with snow pining up on top! We were one of the las planes out of the midwest for several days.
Elmo
@debit: DO NOT DO THIS. Not now, not this time of year. It’s too hot. If anything goes wrong, if an airline employee makes a mistake, the dog could easily die.
And they do make mistakes. The dog is luggage, not a passenger. There aren’t many failsafes in place to make sure luggage isn’t accidentally left on a hot tarmac during a long plane delay.
BlueNC
@debit: A couple of things on air travel for pets (I’m not an expert). Walter is too big for the cabin, so would go as “cargo.” Most airlines will not accept animals in cargo during the summer. The key is most likely to reduce the total travel time. For Minneapolis, I’d start with Delta on the assumption that they will have more flight options.
Delta pet policy
Here is the pet booking site for Delta Cargo
I tried a couple of options from Dulles (IAD) to MSP and made some assumptions about Walter’s weight and kennel size. Cost is in the $400-500 range.
If you are going to do this, I highly recommend an early morning flight (cooler weather). Also note that you cannot book more than 14 days out.
Good luck!
greennotGreen
This being a open thread, perhaps someone can tell me what triggered Charles Johnson’s (Little Green Footballs) come-to-Jesus moment when he stopped being so conservative. I haven’t read that site much in the last many years, but I knew he’d had a change of heart.
Not like our John, though. Cole’s road to Damascus seems to be headed toward sainthood.
MattF
Apparently, Joe Lieberman has just endorsed Hilz. Le sigh.
MattF
@greennotGreen: Broadly, it was racism on the right.
Punchy
Just when you thought to yerself, “Self, why no crazee shee’ot comin’ outta Florida lately?”….PuGo Po-Po do a role-playing game with live ammo and….well, you can guess the rest.
OzarkHillbilly
@debit: Yeah, sadly true. Like I said not feasible. Very happy you are taking him. I have a soft spot for Labs. All they want is love (and to retrieve) (and usually water. mine does not like water. I think that might be why he got abandoned)
Jeffro
Surprisingly enough, Mr. Friedman Unit himself has come out with the strongest, best case for why it’s right to slap Trump down loudly over his “assassination hint” yesterday. Basically it’s just like what happened right before Rabin was gunned down by a right-wing lone wolf.
Peale
@greennotGreen: basically he went off the rails fighting Islam wherever he could find it after 9-11. Then attended conferences with European nazis. Warned his group that they might not want to link up with Nazis and the response from the group was “really? Nazis? How cool is that?!! We could be friends with Nazis!! maybe that holocaust incident was overrated.”
Joey Maloney
@raven: Seconding this. Not that company in particular, but use a pet transport specialist rather than working directly with the airline. The companies know the airlines, know the procedures, and know the people along the way and reduce the chance of anything going wrong.
MattF
@Jeffro: When Friedman writes about his old beat, he’s generally pretty good. Unfortunately, that’s very rare.
Betsy
Didn’t Gabby Gifford get shot by an assassin soon after Sarah Palin and others recommended “Second Amendment remedies”? Why isnt the press picking up on this? Don’t, I know.
raven
@Joey Maloney: Yea, I don’t know anything specific about this outfit.
Rob in CT
@OzarkHillbilly:
Funny, I too have a lab who doesn’t like water. I’m convinced he’s got a significant % of another breed in him, though. He lacks the typical lab coat w/ waterproof second layer. He just has the soft under-layer, which is great for snuggling purposes but might be part of why he’s not so keen on getting wet. He also has zero interest in retrieving. This leaves love, and oh yes he wants that. That, and to hunt small creatures (via brute force and sheer pig-headed determination, zero stealth).
debit
Thanks everyone. Good information and links. Raven, I’m checking out Runway Pets. I’m also looking into this place for over the road options after elmo’s very legitimate concerns.
I’d consider trying to hitch a ride on a rescue shelter transport, however after my experience with Ellie’s time in the shelter resulting in kennel cough, (which then turned into pneumonia and nearly killed her) I’m hesitant to have Walter exposed to any possible contagions. At his age, and with his current health I think there’s just too much of a risk.
Another Holocene Human
@Jeffro: Because their leadership consists of “true believers”, not the money source (the gun manufacturers) who are laughing all the way to the bank.
When I say true believers, they are true believers in white supremacy and “the coming race war.”
Dread
I don’t think I can engage in schadenfreude until after the election… maybe not even then. This election has revealed to me that there are far too many of my fellow Americans willing and very enthusiastic to give in to the worst impulses of hatred, greed, violence, and mindlessly following a cult of personality.
Part of me will be happy when Derp Fuhrer loses, of course, but part of me will fear for what the 2-bit sociopathic carnival barker has unleashed on this country.
Another Holocene Human
@dr. bloor: Hey, there’s a lotta love in that barrel.
raven
@Dread: He didn’t unleash shit. It’s always been there and it always will be.
raven
@debit: Ooo, interesting.
Another Holocene Human
@Punchy: horrifying
of course, this is the state where some cops were doing a charity big vehicle race and a cop killed himself driving a bus because he wasn’t wearing a seatbelt (it’s only a lap belt!!)
a young female firefighter killed herself riding an ATV
this place is crazy and did I mention the poisonous snakes???
Rob in CT
@Dread:
I’m torn between feeling righteous vindication (they are who we’ve been saying they are, for years), hope (that this, disgusting as it is at times, could be the death knell of the GOP as it presently exists), and disgust/horror/misanthropy.
Major Major Major Major
Somebody did an analysis of Trump’s tweets to show that there’s definitely two people writing them (Trump and ‘somebody else’), including word frequencies which is both interesting and educational!
Another Holocene Human
@Dread: Agreed.
I wish people would be more savvy about raging personality disorders. Seen the havoc they wreak on a small scale. In a perfect world, people with mild narcissism would be eager to conceal it for fear of being outed as a narcissist and shunned.
Jeffro
@Another Holocene Human:
Good point. I was thinking about this on the way to work this morning. The GOP really is about billionaire supremacy and white supremacy – that’s it. That is literally all that they stand for at this point. I’m sure the Clinton team’s messaging department doesn’t need my help, but if they were looking for something to pound home for the next 90 days, it really is that simple: The Trump GOP stands for nothing but billionaire supremacy and white supremacy.
They don’t care about workers, they don’t care about people of color, they don’t care about anything “American” or anything that would unite us or speak to the best of this country’s ideals. They don’t care about the rule of law, equality under the law, any sort of norms of behavior or conduct, any of it. Just billionaire-and-white supremacy.
Mike E
@raven: that came to mind immediately when people mentioned Walter’s size and the weather…saw a program on one of these outfits who specialize in adoption placement, dunno the name
Matt McIrvin
@greennotGreen: Johnson always insisted he wasn’t a conservative, he was a liberal whose eyes had been opened to the radical Muslim menace, etc. etc. This seems to have actually been the case. He was shocked after 9/11 by the prevalence of pro-violence and antisemitic statements coming from various Muslims in the Middle East, and started highlighting those. Eventually came to realize, as his comment section became more and more of a cesspit of hate, that he was nurturing an equivalent threat inside his own house, so to speak.
(I actually have vague memories of his blog before 9/11: it was mostly a technology blog about web design and such. I was interested just because the name “Little Green Footballs” was familiar to me: Johnson had used it as a brand name for some Atari ST freeware and shareware he’d written back in the 1980s.)
Barbara
@MattF: This is the first time in my living memory in which Susan Collins actually delivered on a promise to stand on principle. Apparently when Trump was in Maine he said something to the effect that the Somalis living in Maine were ready made recruits for ISIS. This apparently is one of the things that tipped her over the edge to publicly state that she won’t be voting for Trump. She must be thanking her lucky stars every night that she is not up for election in this cycle.
WereBear
I agree. Though Personality Disorders (Narcistic, Borderline, and Antisocial) are set very early, and are very resistant to treatment.
As I read on Down the Rabbit Hole, one can put in a lot of work and wind up with a “5 year old brat instead of a 3 year old brat.” We are building a personality from scratch, while fighting the dysfunctional reactions every step of the way.
Which is why they are so unable to change, and don’t even recognize they should.
OzarkHillbilly
@Betsy: No. It was Sharon Angle who spoke of “2nd Amendment remedies”. What Palin did was put a crosshairs on Giffords’ district leading up to the election. In truth, I doubt very much that had anything to do with Jared Loughner’s reasoning, and all the pearl clutching over it was a wee bit over the top. People have been doing that for a long time in many different contexts.
satby
@debit: only experienced with over the road. Sorry.
CaseyL
@debit: I think any of the commercial airlines are BAD when it comes to transporting animals. But there are a number of companies who try to make it better:
airanimal.com/moves-pet-domestic.cfm
http://www.petaircarrier.com/
http://www.airvets.com/
Or go with Pet Airways, that transports nothing but animals, which means the critter goes in the main cabin rather than the luggage/cargo hold:
http://www.petairways.com/
… and there are lots more. I just pulled these off Google and don’t know their reputations, so you might want to research that before contacting them.
gindy51
@debit: Not during the summer. You will have to wait for the fall and he has to be 100% healthy.
Major Major Major Major
@OzarkHillbilly: Yeah, I thought that was silly. But in traditional Palin fashion, she couldn’t just say “I understand how some might see…”, she had to say “stupid libtard, those are obviously surveyor’s marks, and even if they aren’t, stop being so sensitive!”
satby
@greennotGreen: I’ve done years of car relay transports and emailed John with an offer to coordinate one. Offer still stands, and is probably less traumatizing than a plane ride in a baggage hold.
catclub
@one_particular_harbour, fka Botsplainer: I guess it shows something, that although JoeScar was great friends with Trump during the primaries, he has finally realized that Trump is not good – and saying so loudly. But how did it take him so long?
OTOH, I guess Fox is not yet in any repudiation mode, and Megyn Kelly is going kind of quiet.
CaseyL
@debit: There are companies specializing in transporting pets via commercial carrier, and even companies that transport nothing but pets – the critters are passengers, not cargo, and get to ride in the main cabin.
I had a previous comment that got eaten because too many links, so I’ll just list the names of the companies for you to Google:
Airvets
petrelocation
pet-express
…and there are lots more.
…and this is a real link, because this one goes to a list of known scammers who you do NOT want to entrust Walter to:
https://www.ipata.org/useruploads/files/scams/2016PetScams/2016%20Pet%20Scam%20Report-Feb.pdf
Barbara
@Jeffro: Closer to home, it is obvious that the excessive and over the top rhetoric of the so-called “pro-life” movement has spawned a whole industry of executioners and would be executioners, complete with websites posting addresses and phone numbers of doctors and clinic workers associated with abortion providers. They also deny that their intent is to cause bodily harm.
CaseyL
Please fish my previous comment out of moderation?
Debit – my comment, which is in moderation, had names of companies that specialize in air transport of animals. If Walter is gonna wing his way to you, one of those companies could be useful. If you don’t want to wait until my comment magically appears, just google “pet transport” or “pet airlines.”
amk
wasn’t peter king of ny threatening to leave gop if deadbeat donnie is their party nominee? now, the pos is defending the other pos?
danielx
Never a dull moment.
catclub
@germy:
But one terrible one.
Paying off the debt means the federal government budget will be a drag on the economy.
Trump said he would kill the national debt and he was rounded mocked for offering to ruin the economy while it happened.
“Make sure that federal debt and debt service does not grow faster than the economy.”
Redshift
@Jeffro:
This is perfect storm for NRA marketing. They get to go all out ginning up fear amoung the ammosexuals now and get a Democrat in the White House.
Ruckus
@debit:
There are private pilots that fly dogs around the country. I had to do this with Bud and it was great. You’ll have to google to find some one on the early side of the country.
Jeffro
@Barbara:
Yes – and they need to be asked, “So what, then, IS the intent?” (Sheer intimidation at a minimum…but of course there’s always the actual threat/aim of violence)
Fortunately (just my opinion, but still) it seems like Dems are getting better at calling out their dogwhistles and showing more spine in general. I like that. We’re going to need that if we’re going to beat them all the way back into some semblance of civilized behavior.
Major Major Major Major
@catclub: well there’s nothing inherently virtuous about having a debt. You just gotta know when and be willing to grow it at the right time. Trump and other republicans are mocked because they want to eliminate it as an option and get rid of it at the wrong time.
Shalimar
@Major Major Major Major: I’m surprised by the two separate devices, not by the two separate authors, which was very obvious. It is well known that Trump “tweets” by dictating to an assistant, who does the actual typing. That is why the actual Trump tweets read with the same unique cadence he speaks in. I just assumed that assistant wrote the other tweets when Trump is busy.
Major Major Major Major
@Shalimar: the campaign is probably using a coordinated OS X/iOS suite, it’s pretty common, and trump personally is an android guy.
I liked the analysis. “Yes, it’s obvious, now let’s quantify it!” Twitter is just such a great corpus for language use.
CONGRATULATIONS!
The incredible efforts by the press this morning to turn Donald Trump’s “who will rid me of this meddlesome priest?” call for volunteers into a “joke” are truly heroic – and failing.
Hillary supporters call it for what it is…and so do Trump’s.
ETA: the press is desperately invested in the horse race and CANNOT call it quits with 90+ days to go. That’s far too much money to leave on the table. So they will excuse all this and more.
And Trump knows it.
Jeffro
Trump supporter on one of the networks this morning: “It’s obvious he meant armed insurrection, not assassination.”
THAT’s a defense?!? That’s what we want in a presidential candidate? “Oh, he only meant we should kick of Civil War II, not actually shoot the Secretary.” The mind uber-boggles
Shalimar
@Major Major Major Major: I liked it too. Fascinating analysis. I wonder if it is possible to use the same type of thing by comparing Hillary’s twitter to her email account to see if any of her tweets were from her. I doubt it, since the personal positive type of message she sent so many of is also the type of thing a campaign would do too.
Matt McIrvin
@Jeffro: The thing is, the idea that the Second Amendment exists for the purpose of allowing civil wars has been normalized to such a degree that this makes sense to about half the population.
MattF
@Jeffro: Armed insurrection is just a run-of-the-mill white-nationalist trope. But actually killing someone is a felony– you could get arrested for that.
Jeffro
@Matt McIrvin:
Oh I know – we have all seen/heard plenty of this kind of talk from the Right over the past 35 years. It has to be addressed, like now, today. Ideally there’d be a group of responsible GOP officials joining top Dems at a presser of some kind to say, “We – all of us – do not support this kind of talk and especially not these kinds of actions. We may disagree but we are all Americans and we live under the rule of law.”
But ‘group of responsible GOP officials’ asks for something not in evidence…so we have to do the additional hard work of calling them out and shaming them until the dam breaks…
Barbara
@Matt McIrvin: But John Roberts and company are secure in the knowledge that they are protected for life by a Secret Service detail from the pesky consequences of living among a heavily armed and paranoid citizenry. And living as most of them do in D.C. also means that exercising their franchise hardly matters, ergo, they heavily discount the effect of laws aimed at preventing people from using it.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@one_particular_harbour, fka Botsplainer:
I love that Buffett song your new name refers to!
Jeffro
@MattF:
1) It’ll only be a ‘trope’ until it isn’t…and that’s a tough genie to put back in the bottle…
2) It’s still unacceptable from any level of political leader
catclub
@Major Major Major Major:
That is true until there is a huge market in treasury securities. Then there are a lot of bad things associated with closing down said market by withdrawing all those treasury securities.
Major Major Major Major
@Shalimar: I’m sure the emails are by staffers, but she signs ‘her’ tweets so I’ll bet those are her.
@catclub: Hence the sentence immediately following the one you quoted. Again, there’s nothing inherently virtuous about *possessing* the debt. It’s a means to an end, the end being free money in the situation you described. In this sense what matters is that we are willing to use our ability to go into debt. If there wasn’t something *bad* about having lots of debt, we would just keep doing that forever.
So trump wasn’t criticized for wanting to get rid of the debt, he was criticized for wanting to do it stupidly, at the wrong time, and in a way that would hamstring our ability to go into debt in the future.
low-tech cyclist
@Richard Grant: Thanks for the info on him! I’m gonna have to start checking in on his Twitter feed regularly, because he’s damned funny. (I guess I can’t ‘follow’ him on Twitter since I’m not on Twitter myself, and will probably keep it that way; I’ve got enough timewasters already!)
MattF
@Jeffro: I don’t disagree. It was truth and snark, to some degree.
D58826
(sigh). more Clinton e-mails. Most public officials have been able to donate their papers to a library/etc and specify when they will be made public. In the case of the Clintons we know what week of the month they had milk/cookie duty in kindergarten. The NYT has an article about her complicated relationship with money. Everybody has a complicated relationship with money. Did any one write an article about Mitt’s complicated relationship with money?
I suspect this Benghazi law suit has lerss to do with ‘justice’ for the families and more to do with giving Klayman another shot at Clinton documents thru discovery.
No wonder she doesn’t give press conferences.
Mnemosyne
@MattF:
Well, it’s not like he was going to endorse Trump after the whole faux-subliminal “Jews and money and Hillary” ad.
As others have said, there are going to be a lot of annoying and even despicable people endorsing Hillary. Not because they love her policies or secretly think she agrees with them, but because they’re not fucking insane.
aimai
@Kay: Yes , this! One hundred percent this! From the other side, the Hillary side, what is necessary is a strategy of continued outwaiting of Donald while she campaigns and puts out policy feelers and gestures of welcome and warmth to anyone who starts to get Hillary Curious. Once people unsell themselves from Trump they will move, slowly, towards Hillary and they will pretty much do it on their own. And then the process of retconning and deciding that they have really always loved Hillary begins. If her own side would stop fragging her and just go for sunny optimism and ignore the various lies that the right wing has told about her. Her new voters (trump’s ex voters) will be perfectly happy deciding that they were lied to for 30 years. It actually makes it easier for them to salvage their own self respect. In my experience people are happier to feel like they made their own decision, courageously, and they will then fight to the death to defend that decision.
Neldob
I do think Trump is incompetent and horrible. I do want Clinton to win. But, shouldn’t we ask; why Trump? Like, why Hitler in Germany at that time? Our corporate government is hurting a lot of people, and Clinton is part of that, which is ignored at our peril.
aimai
@Jeffro: She should put out this year’s Daisy Ad, slow motion panning across the Murragh building, the wreckage of the bundy camp, the bombed abortion clinics, the bombed and shot up black churches–, MLK’s shooting, RFK’s shooting, JFK’s cortege, Regan’s shooting, and then run Trump’s words under and over it.
Tagline “Is this what you are voting for?
aimai
@Neldob: Bullshit. Utter and complete Bullshit. Racism in this country goes back to before the Civil War. IT is literally baked into this country and into the voting patterns of at least a third of the white electorate at all times. Just because Bernie Sanders thinks that Trump’s voters are really his voters doesn’t mean that is true. Trump’s voters are the same white racists who have always been drawn to the Republican party. Its just that now they have even more racist rage against Obama and the Obama coalition to express.
The Other Chuck
@Neldob: We’re at 4.9% unemployment. Not exactly the fucking Weimar Republic.
Miss Bianca
@aimai:
And YOU get a pony, and YOU get a pony…
Thor Heyerdahl
@debit: Having once been a baggage handler dealing with pets as cargo, I can simply say – like people – some pets are better flying passengers than others. We had animals that did very well when we loaded them in the climate controlled hold or unloaded when they reached us. We also had others that did not. One poor dog I still remember unloading had shit all over his kennel and himself.
If there’s a delay it’s difficult to say how much special attention the pet kennels would get.
gogol's wife
@aimai:
“If her own side would stop fragging her and just go for sunny optimism and ignore the various lies that the right wing has told about her.”
This is my strategy, and I’m inflicting it on one and all. It really startles people when you don’t join in the usual cynical trashing of your own candidate. One couple looked at me in surprise (they live in New York state), and said, “She WAS a really good senator.” It hadn’t occurred to them not to trash their own candidate. I was an Obot from day one, and was not impressed by her 2008 candidacy, but this time I think she has been fantastic. I was glued to the TV for the entire DNC, which has never happened to me before. I learned a lot about her, and it was not propaganda. The people speaking for her were genuine and believable.
NorthLeft12
I may have said this a time or two before, but Ryan is the absolute worst kind of Republican. He has somehow acquired an image of intelligence and reason which, if the worthless poltroons in the media actually bothered to examine his policies, is totally undeserved.
Hypocritical liars like Ryan deserve all the humiliation that can possibly be heaped on them. They have done far worse to their constituents.
Bonus points; “good” Catholics like Ryan were part of my decision to permanently extend my lapsed Catholic status.
aimai
@gogol’s wife: I think the thing to remember about most voters is that they are intellectually and emotionally lazy and, whether democratic or republican, very often just some version of an “authoritarian follower.” They are very influenced by people around them and by the most certain person in the room. They are malleable and easily convinced of shit, and rely on a vague sense that “everybody knows” or “everybody agrees” to arrive at decisions and to feel comfortable with decisions.
So I tend to have two strategies. With respect to Trumpers I make fun of them and how incredibly ignorant they must be to chose him as a candidate. And with respect to democrats/swing voters I use sunny optimism and extreme enthusiasm. If they bring up the emails I tell them
If they start blubbering about how she was “careless” I just say
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@NorthLeft12:
Do you think there are different types of assholishness based on religiosity? Are evangelical assholishness like Cruz or Cotton distinct from Catholic assholes like Ryan or hybrids like Gingrich (once Protestant, now Catholic)? I’m a long-ago lapsed Catholic-turned agnostic, and I wonder how religion colors jerkhood.
Major Major Major Major
@West of the Rockies (been a while): There are certainly different kinds of assholishness based on the various flavors of atheism.
aimai
@West of the Rockies (been a while): I think that different kinds of world views and religious/moral codes breed different kinds of jerks because they legitimize (or hamper) different excuses for dominance, spite, authority, and control. Calvinism, for example, is one particular flavor of awful that is specifically Protestant, while for Catholics there might be something more like Opus Dei and for Jews a flavor more Chassidic or Orthodox (needless to say there are jerks in every variety of christianity, islam, and judaism but greater power and respect is given to leaders in each of the more draconian/orthodox/authoritarian versions).
There are quite dangerous, narcissistic, and even evil people who lurk in and around seemingly non authoritarian, rational, or communal bsed religious and non religious communities. Very often they use meekness, love bombing, and emotional manipulation to get what people in harder/authoritarian sects simply demand.
Miss Bianca
@gogol’s wife: @aimai: Word. And aimai, I am totally stealing your lines about the emails. It’s a much more succinct, and less profanity-ridden, summation of the situation than I’ve been able to come up with.
SFAW
@aimai:
If that’s “sunny optimism and extreme enthusiasm,” I’d hate to see you “go all medieval on their ass.”
Did I say “hate”? No, that’s not the right word … thinking, thinking … oh yeah, I meant “love.” Just as Hillary wants us to be.
ETA: I had (initially) given Comey a sort-of pass, because he told Ashcroft to fuck off way-back-when. But his performance re: the Hillary mails was pretty dickish, to put it kindly.
Mnemosyne
@WereBear:
FWIW, there’s a new type of group therapy for BPD called Dialectical Cognitive Therapy that has been having some good success, but the patient needs to be very motivated to change and stick with the program for a full year at a minimum.
NPD and Antisocial, not much can be done.
FlipYrWhig
@Neldob: Oh my Lord, “corporate government.” No. Donald Trump supporters don’t perceive, blame, or fathom anything like a “corporate government.” They are lifelong assholes. They are not temporarily confused leftists.
debit
Once again, thanks for the responses and suggestions. It does sound like we’re going with a ground game; whether it’s a relay or I go with the roadie pet transport is something we’re working out.
philadelphialawyer
@gogol’s wife: Me too. No, I do NOT think that our party’s choice is a bad one, or the lesser of two evils at best. No, I do NOT wonder why out of a country of three hundred million Hillary is the best we could find. No, I do NOT think she is dishonest. Or corrupt. Or uninspiring. Or boring. Nor do I dislike hearing her voice. No, I do NOT think our country is going to hell in a handbasket. Believe it or not, I am optimistic about our country and its future. And, guess what, I am not “angry” either. Nor worried about terrorism or Muslims or crime or BLM or kids these days. And all this even though I am a middle aged hetero white guy with a Christian background.
Jeffro
@gogol’s wife:
Just about the same strategy here. I think most folks see me as a pretty level-headed person publicly/privately, so when I start off with “There’s nothing wrong with Hillary Clinton”, it gives them pause. Talking about her on her own merits/resume (instead of just launching into Trump – I save that for here! =) also helps.
It’s also helpful to ask folks, “Let’s say someone – a person on either side, doesn’t matter who – HAD been the target of political smears and insinuations for 40+ years…what would that look like? Maybe a lot of irrational hatred, conspiracy theories, excusing your own candidate’s obvious flaws and engaging in knee-jerk name-calling?”
Jeffro
@philadelphialawyer:
Agree. Well, perhaps just a liiiiittle boring, on occasion, sometimes, but that might just be in comparison to PBO ;)
But all the rest, yup, definitely!
Irony Abounds
@D58826: The new emails show the cozy relationship between Clinton Foundation donors and the State Department. Almost certainly nothing illegal, but sleazy in a way that infuriates (or should infuriate) people who decry special access given those in our society connected to power. You will see these emails get pushed a lot by the media now and they will have an impact. If Trump could keep his piehole closed for more than 30 seconds he would likely see Hillary’s numbers drop and he’d be able to crow about a comeback. Given what a shitty candidate Hillary is, I’m not going to sleep well until the election is over and Trump has lost.
@philadelphialawyer: I have to disagree. While I certainly don’t think she’s Lucifier or a horrible person, she has so much baggage attached to her, her judgement in many ways is suspect, and there is too much evidence of a disregard for the appearance of impropriety. There clearly was a cozy relationship between the Clinton Foundation and the State Department, and if it were the Republican candidate in the same situation we’d be screaming bloody murder about it even though it almost certainly wasn’t illegal. Technically I agree it isn’t a choice of the lesser of two evils. I think of it more of a choice between an evil candidate and a very problematic one, which makes it easy to support the very problematic one. But I am not the least bit excited about another Clinton Presidency.
Major Major Major Major
@Jeffro: She’s a little boring sometimes. It’s fine. She also has a tendency for lawyer-speak when cornered. It’s perfectly understandable but it’s still a flaw, as it’s not something you want in a politician in her position. She’s flawed. It’s fine. It’s OK to be flawed.
sukabi
@catclub: Joe (R-corpse in my office) just realized the great gifts drumpf has bestowed on him for fluffing are just as genuine as the fabulous watch Charlie Sheen was gifted for his wedding.
Major Major Major Major
@Irony Abounds:
No, they don’t.
sukabi
@Major Major Major Major they show she was trying to get a BlackBerry modified to be acceptably secure, and I see that as trying to do your job INSPITE OF the knuckleheads that couldn’t be bothered to provide the SoS a 21st century secure device so she could do her job responsibly.
philadelphialawyer
@Major Major Major Major: And I frankly couldn’t give a shit if they do. The Clinton Foundation is a charity. Hillary was SofS. If her department was a little extra solicitous of her donors, that is no big god damned deal.
@Irony Abounds: In other words, you ain’t got shit. A quarter century of obsessive, voyeuristic scrutiny, and a non illegal “cozy relationship” between the Department Clinton headed and people who gave to her charity is your big, fucking scandal? Whatevs.
“if it were the Republican candidate in the same situation we’d be screaming bloody murder about it even though it almost certainly wasn’t illegal”
Who’s “we?” Cuz I certainly would NOT be saying anything at all about it, much less screaming bloody murder. I scream about racism, misogyny, bigotry, cruelty to the poor and to the marginalized generally. Even real examples of corruption, ie actual illegal bribe taking by GOP’ers (or Dems, for that matter), are to me, of secondary importance, at best. Non illegal bullshit overly “cozy” in your exalted view “relationship” nothing burgers involving politicians are of no importance to me. AT ALL. So, speak for yourself there, Purity Pony.
Sandia Blanca
@Ruckus: I have heard good things about Pilots & Paws
philadelphialawyer
@Major Major Major Major: Not boring at all. Factual and informative. As for lawyer-speak, that is exactly how she should speak when she is talking about legal issues. And all politicians, like all humans in general, are “flawed.”
singfoom
@Irony Abounds: These e-mails?
PDF Link to Judicial Watch
I don’t see the Foundation mentioned once in these “new” e-mails. Perhaps you should be more specific with your claims. Please find text in an e-mail that
boatboy_srq
@bjacques: Hey! A new earworm to replace Nellie the Elephant.
“Sweetness, I was only joking when I said…”
Major Major Major Major
@philadelphialawyer: I can see how some people would find that boring, can’t you? I don’t, but not everybody enjoys lectures, TED talks, NPR, either. But she is who she is. She talks like that. It’s fine.
As for lawyer-speak, explanation sounds like dissembling. It’s been discussed to death here. Sometimes you need more, or other, than a factual, accurate, relevant answer. She could handle this better. She should handle this better. But she doesn’t, and she won’t, and while it’s perfectly understandable why she answers the way she does, it’s still a flaw for a politician in her position. It’s OK to have flaws! But I can still point them out and wish they were different.
Of course humans are flawed. Humans have flaws. 99% of the ‘problems’ people have with Hillary are (if they’re true at all) basic human flaws. That’s what I was saying.
Ksmiami
@Irony Abounds: just stop it ok. The whole access thing is so common at this point it’s meaningless. Wow rich powerful people connect with rich powerful people. I’m shocked. Anyway, if Clinton can bring on an electoral rout we gain the Supreme Court and can lock I. The ability to make things better for many people for many years. I hope that is exciting enough for you.
Miss Bianca
@Irony Abounds: oh, FFS. You sound like my Libertarian friend, making HRC scandal where it actually appeareth not. You sure you’re not planning to vote for Johnson?
J R in WV
@debit:
We once flew with a cat, in a small carrier, between wife’s feet, the first flight. The next leg, that different airline had a different rule, all pets in the cargo. She lived. She was terrified, stank of fear, even tho we gave her a kitty valium when we had to give her to the crew guy who put her in the cargo.
On the other hand, we once flew on a flight that wasn’t full, and we all heard a cat mewing as we took off. One of the FAs actually went into the cargo hold and brought the carrier up, and buckled it into a front seat where she could keep an eye on kitty, who was flying to a cat show to compete. She stopped yowling immediately and was quiet the rest of the flight.
Most planes don’t even have access into cargo, don’t know what kind this flight was, a little commuter jet of some kind.
ETA: If I wasn’t clear, I’m agin it. Don’t do that to the poor dog. Driving is better for the dog, so that’s how it should be done. Or someone in Bethany could adopt him. But don’t fly him as cargo.
philadelphialawyer
“Sometimes you need more, or other, than a factual, accurate, relevant answer.”@Major Major Major Major:
Do you? I like honesty, accuracy and relevance. It is the opposite of the dissembling that she is accused of. Someone says something to her like “explain your email,” and Hillary does so. No changing the subject. No retreat to the poetical.
Major Major Major Major
@philadelphialawyer: Yes.
The last time somebody said ‘explain your email’, she did, and she got Four Pinocchios from the WaPo, so they asked her about it again, and she explained it again, and they talked about how she was dissembling, and explain-y, and lawyer-y. She needs to just forcefully shut it down. Sometimes people pay more attention to what the media says than what the politician says.
philadelphialawyer
@Major Major Major Major: So its her fault that the Wa Po is now a full of shit rag? If she “forcefully shut it down,” then the same DBs would be saying that she is ducking the issue (indeed, they say it anyway, even though she has explained the whole thing, which doesn’t amount to a hill of beans to begin with, over and over again). The fact that the media is committed to an, at best, “both sides do it,” false paradigm in general, and, in Hillary’s case, have bought into the VRWC’s crazy, endless, and ridiculous accusations, is not the result of some “flaw” on Hillary’s part. Rather, the last part, the part unique to Hillary, is a badge of honor, because she is the woman who is going to break the ultimate glass ceiling in spite of being the target of that conspiracy, and because she is and has been the target of that conspiracy for that very reason for 25 years. Hillary is a smart, capable women, and they hate that. So, they never stop attacking. She refutes the attacks calmly, convincingly and consistently. Sorry, but I don’t see that as a flaw.
Major Major Major Major
@philadelphialawyer: People see her as untrustworthy. Explain-y answers sound like dissembling. Republicans get away with it partially because they’re brash.
YMMV.
NorthLeft12
@West of the Rockies (been a while): I don’t distinguish between various religions, but when individuals cite their practice of a certain religion as part of their “outstanding” character and they never seem to practice what their religion preaches, that establishes their assholishness at a higher level. And yes, atheists and agnostics can certainly be assholes too. Many examples all around.
sukabi
@philadelphialawyer: here’s the “problem”, most people are not lawyers so they don’t enjoy the lawyerese, they don’t want to spend 15 minutes unpacking three paragraphs of lawyer speak when the same thing could have been said in three sentences of normal conversation. The Wapo and other “news” outlets take advantage of this by pushing the “dissembling” bullshit.
philadelphialawyer
@Major Major Major Major: What does “explain-y” mean? She is accused, and she refutes, based on facts. What else can she do? Since when did honest explanation equate to lying? And, yes, the GOP is brash. But the media lets them get away with it. Again, what is she supposed to do about it? Say, “Hey, I’m, like, ‘authentic,’ man! So I don’t have to answer any questions about my emails.”?
Just to be clear, I don’t think she’s perfect. IMHO, her FP, like Obama’s, is too belligerent.
Steeplejack (tablet)
@debit:
It was quite a while ago, but I used Delta Dash to fly my two cats between Atlanta and San Francisco when I went on an extended consulting gig. I had a good experience.
NorthLeft12
@Irony Abounds: “cozy relationship” – what exactly do you mean to infer by that? You concede that there is nothing illegal, but you don’t like it. Hmmmmm, you must live your life in a constant state of rage as these type of relationships exist at nearly every organization on earth. Government [all levels], military, business, sports leagues, golf clubs, you name it. The whole idea of some kind of meritocratic level playing field is too fantastical to even consider. We are humans, we don’t work that way.
Applejinx
@Neldob: She doesn’t have to be. She can become an apostate, and it’s high time for it.
Back in the day, Clinton was indeed queen of Third Way globalizing corporatism blah blah blah, because EVERYBODY was back then, and it seemed like a really good idea at the time. We were all being told making the ‘job creators’ and corporations immensely rich would trickle down and the country would boom. Hell, when Bill was President he ran with that stuff and managed to balance the budget and run surpluses while doing it.
Now that talk is obvious, flagrant lies. Here and in the UK, the truth is out: it doesn’t actually help the people to pump the extremely wealthy up like that. They were lying, or deluding themselves. By now, the amount of capital in the world is mind-boggling, and none of it gets invested into new business/jobs because with a demoralized and starving populace there’s no point introducing new products when nobody can buy.
It’s like Nixon going to China. Just because Hillary was steeped in all that for decades in Washington doesn’t mean she has to vainly and foolishly try to replicate it, rewind back to strategies that never had a future.
She is smarter than ever, she has various huge demographic and political movements to look at in the 2016+ landscape that weren’t evident then, she can work out what to do. Of all the candidates, I honestly trust her the most to do the right thing (partly because it’ll take EXTREME WONKERY to come up with the correct implementation).
Major Major Major Major
@philadelphialawyer: see sukabi above at 161.
It’s the attempts at explanation that are the problem, yes. She could just power through it like a dishonest hack. And you know what? She’d probably have higher ratings as a result.
I’m an ontologist for a living. I get paid for sentences that start with “well, technically…”. I’m not saying I don’t like this stuff. But that doesn’t mean it belongs on the campaign trail either.
This isn’t a courtroom or a debate class.
philadelphialawyer
@sukabi: But that’s just it, it can’t be turned into three “normal” sentences, because it involves legal codes, security protocols, precedents, and so on. “Dissembling” necessarily involves deceit, or, at a minimum, concealment. Hillary explains, she does not dissemble. And she uses technical, correct terms to describecomplex technical and legal issues. Again, that is not a flaw. Perhaps the flaw is that the media has fed “most people” a false legal narrative created by the GOP, and Hillary is put in the position of either doing what she does, which is refute, with “relevant, accurate” facts that show that the falsity of that narrative, or dodging the question by answering it with some folksy bullshit. If she did the latter, the claims of “inauthenticity” would be ramped up even higher, because we all know she is a smart, articulate lawyer.
Applejinx
@Irony Abounds: About fucking time there were more cozy relationships between layers of government. I’m increasingly of the opinion (which I’ve seen expressed) that ‘you idiots, pork barrel politics and Washington sleaze was how things got done and constituencies got supported. You want socialism, that was it! Trying to clean out all the ‘corruption and cozy relationships’ in government simply de-greased the machine and caused it to run way less effectively and comfortably, and then we all lose’.
Major Major Major Major
@philadelphialawyer: doesn’t half to be folksy bullshit. I’ll bet she could get away with ‘Iron Lady who is sick of your shit and trying to talk about ISIS/jobs/whatever here’. At the very least that would signal to the right people (women, people who like ‘strength’ whatever that is, depressed libs who want somebody feisty). Explain-y stuff is weak sauce even without her baggage. Once you’re explaining you’ve lost the narrative. Change the subject.
@Applejinx: extreme wonkery, now there’s a sport I would watch! Especially in all caps!
philadelphialawyer
@Major Major Major Major: Sheer speculation on your part that less accuracy, relevance and honesty and more hackery would do her any good. I think not. And I sure as hell don’t see relying on the former rather than the latter as a flaw.
And, no, the attempts at explanation are NOT the problem. The problem is, in descending order, the misogynist VRWC, the bought and paid for and otherwise feckless media, and the laziness of folks, including many on the left, to see that the first two things are the problem, and not Hillary’s accurate, factual and honest explanations.
Major Major Major Major
@philadelphialawyer: her answers don’t play well. You can dispute why or that they shouldn’t but you cannot dispute that.
And don’t throw out my argument as baseless speculation and then attempt to refute it with your own, please.
philadelphialawyer
@Major Major Major Major: Again, so you say. But when she even hints at getting tough, she is called a shrill, castrating bitch. You don’t seem to appreciate the position she is in, as the first woman to break this barrier. She is literally damned if she does and damned if she doesn’t. So, she sticks to honesty, accuracy and facts. Rather than either folksy bullshit or bullying bluster.
philadelphialawyer
@Major Major Major Major: tu quoque, much? Anyway, she seems to be doing pretty well for herself, despite the alleged weakness of her preference for facts, accuracy and honesty over horseshit or shouting.
Major Major Major Major
@philadelphialawyer: your argument boils down to, what she’s saying is fine, nothing she says will be taken well, so she shouldn’t change, next issue.
That’s a perfectly legitimate viewpoint! Just say that!
Major Major Major Major
@philadelphialawyer: that’s not a tu quoque. You said I had sheer speculation, then followed up with sentences with core verbs like “I think” and “I don’t see”. What it *is* is a lazy argument on your part.
Of course this is all speculation, so is what you’re saying, so what?
philadelphialawyer
@Major Major Major Major: I thought I have been saying that? I think she’s a great candidate, and I also think she handles the phony accusations against her well. Furthermore, I don’t think there is a magic bullet that she is overlooking, which would make the phony accusations, the VRWC which generates them, or the feckless media which harps on them, simply go away.
sukabi
@philadelphialawyer: I was simplifying to make a point. I would personally LOVE it if she would just once make a statement similar to:
“Oh for fucks sake, I followed the same protocols as Secretarys Powell and Rice. Where are the investigations into how their emails were used?”
Eta, I know it wouldn’t do any good, and might even fan the flames, but it is a clear, decisive statement.
philadelphialawyer
@Major Major Major Major: I accuse you of speculation. You respond that I speculate. Classic to quoque.
Major Major Major Major
@philadelphialawyer: I think this started with the ‘flaw’ thing.
I don’t think those are good answers for a politician, because they play into the narrative that the crap media etc. has already established. You think we shouldn’t bother with alternatives, and I don’t.
The media seemed to like Shoutypants McSocialist a few months ago.
Sure, if you’re not speculating. Which you were. And are! This is a speculative conversation.
philadelphialawyer
@sukabi:
From politifact:
“‘I’m going to give the same answer I’ve given for many months,’ Clinton replied. ‘It wasn’t the best choice. I made a mistake. It was not prohibited. It was not in any way disallowed, and as I’ve said and now has come out, my predecessors did the same thing, and many other people in the government.'”
Of course, when she says that, the media claim that Powell using a frickin gmail server rather than a private one somehow makes a difference in his favor.
Also, the VRWC then shifts to “two wrongs don’t make a right” and “Powell was a liberal anyway!”
Again, no magic bullet is out there.
Major Major Major Major
@philadelphialawyer: Too much explanation. Don’t give them something to pick apart. “I made a mistake, it wasn’t the best choice. Now, as I was saying about Syria…”
philadelphialawyer
@Major Major Major Major: You don’t seem to understand what tu quoque means.
As for the alleged “alternatives,” there really aren’t any.
On the “socialist,” first of all, he is not a woman, so shouting is OK for him. Secondly, he was running against a woman. Thirdly, he was a novelty act. Good copy. Photogenic rallies with lots of young, attractive people. They would crucify him if he were the nominee.
philadelphialawyer
@Major Major Major Major: So, she says what sukabi wants her to say (without the obscenity), but that is no good either. No, she should follow your advice, and then be accused of ducking the issue. Sorry, all of that is in no way evidence of a “flaw.”
Major Major Major Major
@philadelphialawyer: Ah, you’re right, I was remembering wrong. In this case it’s not a tu quoque because I wasn’t trying to undermine your argument, just saying that we were both, in fact, engaged in supposition.
Or, you’re the lawyer and that’s not what it means, but either way it was an utterly pointless thing for you to say, considering the speculative nature of the conversation.
As for the flaw thing, let me put it this way. I think that a more natural politician (which she is not) would act differently. I think things would go better for her if she were a more natural politician. As far as her existence as a politician, this is a flaw.
You disagree with the premises, so the conclusion is irrelevant to you.
Fun chat!
philadelphialawyer
@Major Major Major Major: I guess I just get tired of folks here and elsewhere who seem to think that they their seat of the pants speculation is always superior to how Hillary runs her campaign. You think Hills and her peeps never thought about “just powering through” or “act like a ‘natural politician’ (ie lie or change the subject)”? If only Hillary would just listen to random posters on BalloonJuice, there would never be another email or Benghazi or Clinton Foundation or whatever the bullshit scandal du jour is question again!!!!111!!! Oh, if only she wasn’t so “flawed,” then she could see this obvious truth!!
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@NorthLeft12:
Oh, I quite agree! Jerks and A-holes come in all flavors (as it were).
Pinacacci
@debit: Hi, I sent you an email re: Walter transport. Might be able to work out Pilots and Paws, I have a connection in VA near the WV border =D
Major Major Major Major
@philadelphialawyer: It really is OK to have flaws though. She’s not omniscient. Campaigns screw up. Maybe there really is nothing to be done, re: how to talk about the emails.
She really isn’t a natural ‘politician’ though, like Bill or Barack, at least as we’ve come to understand what a ‘politician’ is. Could be a sex thing. We certainly are conditioned to look for male leadership styles. But that doesn’t make it any less of a cultural norm that she has to deal with. (It still makes it bullshit, of course, but “it’s not fair” doesn’t fly when you’re running for president.) Maybe it’s a lose/lose and we’ll just have to accept the 3% (or whatever) fewer votes that any woman would get.
I dunno. But that’s less fun to blog about.
philadelphialawyer
@Major Major Major Major: Sexism on the part of the electorate is not a “flaw” of Hillary. How about, instead, the “male leadership style” and its worship is the “flaw?” Lying and bullying and bluster and subject changing are what Trump is all about, after all. Does that make him a “natural politician?” Again, Hillary doing what she does, with her reasoned, articulate, non dissembling explanations, in her very female way, seems to be playing well enough with the voters, the majority of whom are also female. Certainly, she beat “male leader” Sanders. And she damn near beat Barrack Obama, too. And she won two statewide elections in New York as well, against other men.
Major Major Major Major
@philadelphialawyer: Fair enough. Well enough is good enough, better would be better but I’ll take it. The more we can win by, the more good we can do, even if you have to slime and bluster your way into it.
But I will point out though that Bill got shit for the exact same lawyer-y, explain-y answers back in the day. Of course, in his case, the “what is is” stuff was dissembling. But these things don’t play well regardless of gender.
philadelphialawyer
@Major Major Major Major: Here is a data point that might indicate that Hillary knows what she’s doing: A recent poll shows that almost two thirds of the electorate is tired of hearing about the stupid emails. What does that mean? Well, I think it means that Hillary has neutralized the issue. How did she do that? By answering, over and over again, exhaustively, accurate and honestly and factually, in “legal speak” and otherwise, all of the questions raised about it. Of course, the smear can NEVER be completely undone, either in particular (“Hillary emails11!!11!!!!”) or in general (“Hillary is dishonest/untrustworthy/inauthentic”), but if folks no longer care about it, that seems like, under the circumstances, a win.
“The more we can win by, the more good we can do, even if you have to slime and bluster your way into it.”
Again, just your seat of the pants say so that slime and bluster would be more effective than what Hillary does instead. I trust her and staff’s judgment more than, with all due respect, yours.
Also, I just find it a bit facile to say “never explain.” Easy enough to say that the explanations are the problem. But the explanations are prompted by the accusations. Simply not answering the accusations does NOT make them go away. And they are the real “problem.” That was true for WJC, just as it is HRC, BHO, DJT, GWB and every other politician, “natural” or not. Funny, too, before you said Bill was one of those “natural” men, but now it seems he is too lawyer-y and explain-y too. I think what it really shows is that dealing with accusations is never easy. That there are no easy answers.
InternetDragons
@debit: Re: flying Walter. A reputable airline will refuse to allow shipping of any pets by air during these summer months. Please plan to wait to ship him until temperatures drop; then we can offer you some options for airlines that are known to do a good job with this.
Irony Abounds
@philadelphialawyer: Bullshit on every HRC lover throwing sexism in the face of anyone who criticizes HRC for anything. Her lousy judgement in voting for the war in Iraq, and the criticism for it has nothing to do with her gender. Her lousy judgement in pushing for intervention in Libya and the criticism for it has nothing to do with her gender. Her lousy judgement in calling for a no-fly zone in Syria and the criticism for that has nothing to do with her gender. Her lousy judgement in taking large speaking fees to talk to Wall Street bankers and the criticism for that has nothing to do with her gender. Her lousy judgement in setting up a server for her emails at her house, and the use of that server for both State Department and personal emails, and the criticism for that has nothing to do with her gender. She is an imperfect person, as are we all, and she should not be immune from criticism because she is a female. All of which is not to say that a fair amount of criticisms that come her way are not reflective, at least in part, on the underlying sexism that still exists in this country. Just because that sexism exists however does not mean everyone who doesn’t love her is sexist. And I’m sorry, HRC has not been articulate, reasoned and non-dissembling in discussing her emails. She herself admitted she “short-circuited” in replying to Chris Wallace’s question on the matter.
J R in WV
@Barbara:
Actually, the Secret Service doesn’t do judges. They are protected by U S Marshals, which works with the judiciary. I learned this from news coverage after a federal judge was murdered in Chicago a few years ago.
I’m sure someone will correct me (humiliate me) if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure here.
ruckus
@Sandia Blanca:
Don’t know them, fellow I used is based in Van Nuts, CA but even flies into Canada. My understanding is that he flies in the western half of the country.
philadelphialawyer
@Irony Abounds: Must we? She didn’t vote for war in Iraq. She voted for an AUMF that was to be used if there was WMD in Iraq, but which was perverted by Bush and Co. And, in any event, Bush and Co were going to war AUMF or no AUMF. And she lost the 2008 primary because of it. And admitted she was wrong about it. Obama’s FP with respect to Syria and Libya is on him, not his advisers. Speaking fees are SOP for politicians when not in office. Nothing burger. Emails are less than nothing. She was advised by the techies to do it this way, the actual State Dept server was hacked, while there is no evidence that Hillary’s was, a previous (male) SoS had done essentially the same thing, overclassification is rampant anyway, and there is zilch evidence that Hill compromised national security. And re Chris Wallace, she was trying to give the short answer that everyone here thinks is the magic bullet. When that common sense approach was called lying, she gave the articulate, reasoned, non dissembling “long” version that she usually gives.
On the overall question, Hillary faces sexism everyday, and on every issue, and on every what should be non issue. She is, and has been, for decades, judged much more harshly than men are. For her votes, her positions, her ethics, her voice, her answers, the way she runs her campaign, her clothes, her laugh, her body, her life, her marriage, and her career choice.
Of course she is imperfect. I think I actually agree with your criticism of her FP.
But bullshit on your laundry list of bullshit.
I am not going to apologize for liking Hillary. I repeat, she is a great candidate. Has very good judgement. Has not actually done anything scandalous at all. And will make a fine president. Put that in your email and smoke it!
workworkwork
@Jeffro: “After all, we’re not psychopaths.”
Bl
@debit: I’m late to respond, but another issue with pets flying in cargo is that the cargo area is not pressurized. That might be ok for young pets depending on altitude and time, but a very bad idea for an old dog.