Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Innocent people don’t delay justice.

So many bastards, so little time.

The problem people have with Biden’s age is the color of the VPs skin.

It’s not hopeless, and we’re not helpless.

Second rate reporter says what?

Someone should tell Republicans that violence is the last refuge of the incompetent, or possibly the first.

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

Glad to see john eastman going through some things.

Republicans got rid of McCarthy. Democrats chose not to save him.

Republicans don’t lie to be believed, they lie to be repeated.

Roe isn’t about choice, it’s about freedom.

If you’re pissed about Biden’s speech, he was talking about you.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

There are some who say that there are too many strawmen arguments on this blog.

Republicans want to make it harder to vote and easier for them to cheat.

Be a traveling stable for those who can’t find room at the inn.

We’re not going back!

Consistently wrong since 2002

When we show up, we win.

Prediction: the gop will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

So it was an October Surprise A Day, like an Advent calendar but for crime.

Fight them, without becoming them!

Authoritarian republicans are opposed to freedom for the rest of us.

The willow is too close to the house.

You are here: Home / Politics / Domestic Politics / Commander In Chief Forum

Commander In Chief Forum

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As most everyone knows by now NBC/MSNBC is hosting and The Iraq and Afghanistan Veteran’s of America is sponsoring a Commander in Chief Forum tonight at 8 PM EDT. Aside from the fact that Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are running for President, of which one of the enumerated Constitutional duties is to be Commander in Chief of the Army, Navy, the militias of the several states, etc., it is named what it is named. It will be in a town hall format, so questions from the audience to each candidate. And each candidate will be on separately. Secretary Clinton will be going first as her representative lost the coin toss. Apparently both candidates wanted to go second, so they did a coin toss. Because IAVA is sponsoring the bulk of the attendees, and the questions from them, will be from veterans, those currently serving, and their family members. Here’s a link to a live stream at WBAL TV 11 in Baltimore. You can also go to the IAVA link above and access a live feed there or just tune to NBC or MSNBC.

Reader Interactions

426Comments

  1. 1.

    JMG

    More fetish worship of “the troops,” the undeniably brave professionals who do dangerous work the average American wouldn’t do for a second. A forum on veterans alone would be great, and one on foreign policy would be OK, too, but this is a bad combo. It speaks to the fundamental cowardice of the majority of Americans.

  3. 3.

    Adam L Silverman

    @JMG: I’m honestly not sure how this one came to be. Did NBC pitch the idea to IAVA or did IAVA pitch the idea to NBC or to the campaigns or whatever.

  4. 4.

    kd bart

    Clinton will be analyzed and graded like a PhD student. Trump will be treated like an adult auditing an evening overview class at the local community center.

  8. 8.

    dr. bloor

    Pfft. If Hillary laid out a comprehensive, foolproof plan for World Peace and Trump manages not to pee on himself, it will be called a draw by those whose paychecks depend upon a horse race.

    I’m tuning into East Bumfuck State versus Fuckall Institute of Technology on ESPN 729.

  11. 11.

    hovercraft

    The pre-game on msnbc has been awful, all of the usual suspects, Mrs Greenspan, Chucky, Kellyanne and Gen. Flynn, and Jack Jacobs who is a Medal of Honor recipient, but who is in favor of privatizing the VA and very conservative, all led by Tweety, oy vey.

  12. 12.

    Hildebrand

    Not watching. If, as was noted below, Lauer is moderating, I simply cannot watch – he is a knave, a dim-witted cretin of the first order, a stain on all things journalistic. Saying all of that, he is still light-years more intelligent than the anthropomorphic cheeto who will be shambling about the stage like a wounded ox spouting mono-syllabic inanities.

  15. 15.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Am I the only one who thinks Andrea Mitchell sounds both heavily medicated and seriously sleep-deprived? (At first, I just thought “drunk,” but that’s not it.)

  17. 17.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Adam L Silverman:

    What the hell happened to Matt Lauer’s hair?

    Haven’t seen him yet tonight, and haven’t watched him on NBC for at least a decade. What’s wrong with his hair?

  18. 18.

    germy

    My local NBC affiliate keeps pushing “Watch the candidates go head to head!!” which I assume is an attempt to get eyeballs by pretending it’s an actual debate.

  22. 22.

    germy

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Am I the only one who thinks Andrea Mitchell sounds both heavily medicated and seriously sleep-deprived? (At first, I just thought “drunk,” but that’s not it.)

    Andrea is exhausted and disoriented after taking a ride on HRC’s plane.
    HRC: the one they’re all saying might not be robust enough to be president.

  23. 23.

    PsiFighter37

    @SiubhanDuinne: If I was married to Alan Greenspan, I’d be drunk all the goddamn time.

    Not going to watch, since I was face-to-face fireworks. But Hillary should be ready to carpet-bomb the living daylights out of Cheddar Christ’s (lack of) qualifications.

  27. 27.

    dmsilev

    @Mnemosyne: Clinton is on first, so atrocities will wait until hour 2.
    Edit: Apparently the whole thing is only an hour long, so 30 minutes each.

  30. 30.

    MomSense

    I almost can’t watch. I hope we can skip a half hour of email questions.

    ETA HOLY FUCK MATT LAUER FIRST FLIPPING QUESTION?!?!?!

  33. 33.

    germy

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    but MPB is hardly a moral failing.

    I agree, but since he makes his living appearing on TV, he apparently wants to look youthful and vital. His looks aren’t the reason I dislike him.

    Just listen to his questions.

  40. 40.

    Hildebrand

    @Adam L Silverman: I had to do a quick search to make the connection, due to my lack of morning-show awareness. What a strange gig – no doubt it must suck to try to have an actual conversation with a great many in that business.

  44. 44.

    Corner Stone

    Col Jack Jacobs can go suck a fucking egg. Stop telling me that the next president should be a leader who leads. One who gets Congress on board to fund the things that need funding.
    Fucking idiot.

  50. 50.

    Trentrunner

    All right kids, we’re watching it now: The final stage of the False Equivalencing.

    This is terrifying. It’s damaging.

  52. 52.

    Corner Stone

    If the next question is about emails I am going to shoot my TV and then go hunting villagers.

  57. 57.

    germy

    “How do you think these people feel when you say the war they fought in Iraq was a mistake? Why do you hate our troops?”

  58. 58.

    Kay

    Day 544 of the email investigation analysis, I see. That’s it for me! They still have nothing, right?

  59. 59.

    MomSense

    Now was your Iraq war vote not only a mistake but is your acknowledgement of the mistake an affront to the troops.

  63. 63.

    rikyrah

    One Answer to School Attendance: Washing Machines
    When washers and dryers were added to 17 schools through a new program, attendance rates shot up.
    MIMI KIRK @marionekirk Aug 22, 2016

    Dr. Melody Gunn, the former principal of Gibson Elementary in St. Louis, couldn’t figure out why student attendance was on the low side. All of Gibson’s kids were provided free or reduced lunches, and the school facilitated transportation.

    In talking to parents, Gunn discovered that many didn’t have easy access to washing machines. Or if they did have machines, they couldn’t always use them because they couldn’t afford detergent, or their electricity had been shut off. For these families, laundry had to take a backseat to more pressing needs such as food and rent.

    It turned out that when students didn’t have clean clothes, they often stayed home from school out of embarrassment. Logan, an eighth-grader, spoke about how difficult it is for others to understand his problem: “I think people don’t talk about not having clean clothes because it makes you want to cry or go home or run away or something. It doesn’t feel good.”

    Gunn reached out to the Whirlpool company to see if it could help, and it donated a washer and dryer to her school. She then invited students who had missed more than 10 days of school to bring in their clothes for laundering. Whirlpool later gave 16 more schools in districts in St. Louis and Fairfield, California, washers and dryers through a new program.

    “After just one month, we saw an impact,” Gunn tells CityLab. The more long-term results of the program have actually been remarkable. The first year saw over 90 percent of tracked students increase their attendance, with those most in need of the service averaging an increase of almost 2 weeks. Teachers surveyed reported that 95 percent of participants showed more motivation in class and were more apt to participate in extra-curricular activities. The results support research demonstrating that chronic absenteeism isn’t because of kids’ lack of smarts or motivation, but is largely due to coming from a low-income household.

  66. 66.

    Adam L Silverman

    Anyone want to reconsider who is supporting Tom’s interpretation of the news media versus my interpretation based on what we’re watching at this forum? Lauer’s questions are clearly framed a certain way and intended to further an editorial narrative and position on Clinton, her judgement, her trustworthiness, etc. The audience questions so far have only reinforced that. These things do not happen by accident.

  68. 68.

    Mary G

    She is a tough cookie. I have taken responsibility for my decisions, Trump lied about his views on Iraq.

  69. 69.

    SiubhanDuinne

    So, um, when do you think they might actually get around to what the candidates would do as CiC? We’re 15 minutes in and it hasn’t happen d yet.

  73. 73.

    FlipYrWhig

    I don’t understand how we came to occupy a world where people think The Emails is even an _interesting_ story, much less a scandalous one. Try to even explain it and see how long it takes for the person you’re talking to to get clinically bored. “See, she was supposed to use one kind of computer but she actually used another one because it was going to be connected to…” Holy fuck that’s a boring story.

  76. 76.

    Corner Stone

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Lauer’s questions are clearly framed a certain way and intended to further an editorial narrative and position on Clinton, her judgement, her trustworthiness, etc. The audience questions so far have only reinforced that. These things do not happen by accident.

    Oh, I don’t know. Let’s see if we can get another sandbag question to continue this streak.

  79. 79.

    Davis X. Machina

    @SiubhanDuinne: We already know.

    Hillary will bomb Iran because she’s a war-monger.
    Trump will bomb anyone who looks at him cross-eyed, because he’s all about reining in US militarism.

    I never cease to be amazed by what you can learn on the internet.

  81. 81.

    germy

    Lauer borrowed Rick Perry’s eyewear. I think I caught him rubbing his eye through the hollow frame.

  83. 83.

    The Thin Black Duke

    Yo. Everybody.

    Chill.

    Remember, African-Americans and other POC are going to vote for Hillary because we ain’t crazy and we don’t give a fuck about the e-mails.

    The worse thing anybody can do is think that these sock puppets on TV represent the people who live in the real world.

  93. 93.

    debbie

    @Corner Stone:

    They’re never going away. This is why I think she should just do the press conference they’re all screaming for. Let it be like that 11-hour hearing where she remained steady and unruffled.

  94. 94.

    Davis X. Machina

    @The Thin Black Duke:

    Remember, African-Americans and other POC are going to vote for Hillary because we ain’t crazy and we don’t give a fuck about the e-mails.

    I can’t afford to buy every PoC I see a drink for the rest of my life.
    But I should.

  95. 95.

    dr. bloor

    @Adam L Silverman: Nothing to “reconsider” AFAIC. I take Tom at his word re: what he hears from those he knows in the press, but I think he gives those reporters entirely too much credit re: their intellectual and critical reasoning abilities, not to mention their insight into their own motives as well as those of their employers.

  96. 96.

    Feebog

    Good Lord, first 8 minutes on the friggin emails, followed by her Iraq vote. I think she gave one of the best and complete answers ever on the emails, but come on this was supposed to be about policy.

  102. 102.

    Kay

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Holy fuck that’s a boring story.

    Agreed. That’s why they had to connect it to their much larger theory that Clinton is a bad person. It wouldn’t have lasted two weeks on the merits.

  104. 104.

    germy

    @dr. bloor:

    I think he gives those reporters entirely too much credit re: their intellectual and critical reasoning abilities

    Just watched a Jeopardy re-run where a comedian (Louis C.K.) beat two prize-winning journalists.

  106. 106.

    scav

    @Cacti: precocious? Well, insofar as he’s probably potty-trained and can handle a fork with aplomb but otherwise pretty run of the mill toddler of the loud, noisy, rude, parallel play variety.

  110. 110.

    Cacti

    @dmsilev:

    precocious – having developed certain abilities or proclivities at an earlier age than usual.

    Like he’s a sweet little boy just trying his best and doing well for his age. Rather than, you know, a 70-year old man with the disposition and intellect of a surly middle schooler.

  112. 112.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Apparently we’re going to relitigate the emails.

    Trying to think what they could ask Trump repeatedly that could still be even remotely justified under the CiC rubric.

  114. 114.

    Adam L Silverman

    @debbie: If she did an 11 hour press conference it would be hilarious. She’d still be going and the reporters would all be racked out from exhaustion.

  117. 117.

    dmsilev

    @Cacti: Oh, I know what the word means. It’s just that the proper comparison is a normal toddler, or perhaps one with some developmental issues.

  118. 118.

    Mary G

    OK, the whole megillah was worth it for this one statement “We are NOT going to put ground troops into Iraq ever again. We are not putting ground troops into Syria.”

  120. 120.

    germy

    @Mary G: Will the MSM use it as a soundbyte or will they ignore it?
    I’m guessing they’ll use something about the emails as a soundbyte tomorrow.

  121. 121.

    Adam L Silverman

    @dr. bloor: He and I have been emailing about this for several days. And I wasn’t looking to call him out, or trying to, by my comment this morning. What I think is missing in this is that journalists, especially the political press, are a distinct subculture and primary professional association. So it doesn’t matter that specific reporters and journalists have made an explicit or implicit choice to view the Clintons as corrupt, crooked, unethical, untrustworthy, and criminal. That the leadership – from owners to publishers to editors to directors – of their organizations do, or that the most senior people do, creates the conditions where these beliefs are socially learned and transmitted.

  126. 126.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Feebog: No it wasn’t. They know there will be no policy discussion in the second half. So they can’t allow one in the first half.

    ETA: Part of the issue is that neither Lauer, nor anyone else I’ve seen in the political media, would know how to ask a question about policy. I’m not sure they’d actually know what a policy is.

  127. 127.

    Corner Stone

    @debbie:

    This is why I think she should just do the press conference they’re all screaming for.

    It wouldn’t matter. It will never matter. She would just give them 11 hours of sound byte snippets to twist into something else. The GOP is going to start another hearing about how she answered questions about the emails. FFS.

  128. 128.

    Cacti

    In the interest of balance, I suspect Lauer will also ask Trump what he thinks of Hillary’s e-mails.

  129. 129.

    Mary G

    @germy: Hillary doesn’t do soundbites, unfortunately. It makes her much more substantive but doesn’t fit well in a tweet.

  130. 130.

    gogol's wife

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    I keep registering protests about comparing Trump to anything cute like ferrets or toddlers. Really any living thing is potentially much more attractive than Trump, even that bigass golden orb spider Betty ran into.

  133. 133.

    MomSense

    The bar is set impossibly high for Hillary but before the show Mitchell, Todd, and Matthews basically said that Trump needs to know words.

  134. 134.

    SiubhanDuinne

    She looked good, she sounded and looked healthy — more than healthy: robust and vibrant — and she spoke clearly and forcefully. She will be a president I will be proud to support.

  135. 135.

    BruceFromOhio

    You can also go to the IAVA link above and access a live feed there or just tune to NBC or MSNBC.

    A funhouse clown and a former First Lady, Senator, and Secretary of State. Gosh, I’m really on the fence about this one, children. Decisions, decisions.

    I conclude that my preference remains steadfast, I’d rather be eaten by wolves.

    @SiubhanDuinne: But are her emails presidential enough? I’m waiting for The Onion to weigh in.

  137. 137.

    Skerry

    Owen Ellickson
    ‏@onlxn

    LAUER: First question’s for Secretary Clinton.
    CLINTON: Thank you, Matt–
    LAUER: ‘Sup with them e-mails?
    CLINTON: Oh for fucking fuck’s sake

  138. 138.

    germy

    @Mary G: Hillary doesn’t do them, but the TV News people edit her longer informative statements into digestible, distorted chunks for the folks who didn’t bother watching.

  140. 140.

    Corner Stone

    @germy:

    I’m guessing they’ll use something about the emails as a soundbyte tomorrow.

    “Questions were again raised by concerned voters about former Sec State’s email scandal.”
    “Did I mention ‘SCANDAL’? Because SCANDAL!!!”

  142. 142.

    germy

    Matt: “It didn’t completely work out at the end there.”

    Donald: “Am I supposed to answer this question?”

  146. 146.

    tulip

    I don’t usually watch these things, but man they seemed hard on Clinton. So let’s see how Lauer/Crowd does with Trump.

  152. 152.

    Cacti

    @tulip:

    I don’t usually watch these things, but man they seemed hard on Clinton. So let’s see how Lauer/Crowd does with Trump.

    Softballs and kid gloves, I suspect.

  157. 157.

    JMG

    Ryan Lochte engages in a drunken vandalism spree, lies about it to insult a foreign country, is interviewed by Matt Lauer and gets a pass. Then we get this. Adam is right. They’re all whores. Clinton should go on TV tomorrow and announce Comcast, Disney and CBS Corp./Viacom are all illegal monopolies and her Justice Dept. will break them up. Let them cover THAT.

  160. 160.

    Adam L Silverman

    I’m pretty sure that the guy who resigned from the President of Mexico’s staff didn’t resign today because the trip was a success.

  162. 162.

    germy

    @hovercraft:

    IAVA has been running ant-privatization Ads for about a month now.

    An ad is at least an ad. One of the networks did a story about the VA, and the main person they interviewed and walked with was someone connected with the privatization effort. They didn’t report this; I googled his name during the broadcast.
    Stealth advertising is more insidious.

  163. 163.

    Gin & Tonic

    Olivia Nuzzi ‏@Olivianuzzi 2m2 minutes ago
    Trump, lie number 3: says he has “great relationships” in Mexico.
    0 retweets 5 likes
    Reply Retweet
    Like 5
    More
    Olivia Nuzzi ‏@Olivianuzzi 2m2 minutes ago
    Trump, lie number 2: says all 16 GOP candidates were “talented people”
    3 retweets 9 likes
    Reply Retweet 3
    Like 9
    More
    Olivia Nuzzi ‏@Olivianuzzi 3m3 minutes ago
    Trump, lie number 1: claims he didn’t support the Iraq war. He did.
    1 retweet 0 likes
    Reply Retweet 1
    Like
    More

  172. 172.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Adam L Silverman:
    I see it as a social group. A clique. They agree, and treating Clinton like this seems obvious to them. It doesn’t have to be pushed. One of the reasons it got this way is because the people who hire do so naturally based on their own biases. They will see the better candidate as one who reflects their own philosophy of the job, and who they get along with. The senior and respected members of the group like Blitzer and Brokaw will be looked to for ‘wisdom.’ They don’t give a damn about anybody’s opinion who doesn’t agree with them, and there is no outside force with power over them. So they just stand around all day going ‘Oh, my god, that Hillary is, like, such an untrustworthy shrew.’ ‘I heard she gave donors access at the State Department.’ ‘Like, NO WAY. I’m going to call everybody and tell them!’

  173. 173.

    MomSense

    Iraq has oil in various sections and we should have some people to take the oil with us.

    Wow, der Trump you are wicked smart.

  174. 174.

    raven

    We could leave certain people around the oil and take it. Yea motherfucker, 100 divisions should do.

  175. 175.

    Emerald

    I refuse to watch these two clowns. Lauer was hostile to her. Treating Trump nicely, I’ll bet.

  176. 176.

    Adam L Silverman

    As someone who was there, I can sincerely tell you that Iran has been controlling Iraq since 2005 when we installed Maliki, who had been in exile in Iran, was bankrolled by Iran, and who’s political movement was backed by Iran as Prime Minister of Iraq in combination with converting the Badr Corps, the militia of the al Hakim religious movement, which was stood up in exile in Iran, was funded by Iran, and was trained by the Iranian Quds Force, into the majority of the Arab half of the Iraqi Army.

  180. 180.

    JMG

    Lauer makes like five-six million a year and can be fired like that. All he gives a damn about is that he’ll get a big tax cut from Trump and maybe have to pay more under Clinton. In his mind, he’s defending himself.

  182. 182.

    Mark B

    So far, Donald Trump is coming across as a dangerously stupid and ignorant fool, who is just trying to bullshit his way through the interview.

  187. 187.

    germy

    @JMG:

    Lauer makes like five-six million a year and can be fired like that. All he gives a damn about is that he’ll get a big tax cut from Trump and maybe have to pay more under Clinton. In his mind, he’s defending himself.

    And his bosses are defending themselves hiring him to do this.
    They really see paying taxes as theft.

  189. 189.

    JPL

    Gotta say that his answer about the intelligence briefing made his base proud. Build that wall on the Atlantic Ocean now.

  190. 190.

    Kay

    Why do conservatives love it when he says “take the oil”? We should invade their country and then steal everything?

  191. 191.

    germy

    @hovercraft:

    The vet behind Trump has a are you crazy smirk on his face.

    I think the director just told the cameraperson “Get that guy out of the frame!”

  193. 193.

    Corner Stone

    @Mark B:

    So far, Donald Trump is coming across as a dangerously stupid and ignorant fool, who is just trying to bullshit his way through the interview.

    “So far” ?
    That’s all he’s been doing for who knows how long.

  195. 195.

    JMG

    Because politics is hard, requires diligent work, and worst of all causes disagreement (which outside the Internet Americans really don’t like), Trump’s policy-free assertions that all will be well strike a deep chord. Fundamentally, Hamilton was right. Most folks aren’t equipped to govern themselves/

  197. 197.

    germy

    “Do you want me to start naming some of the stuff Obama does?”

    weird reply to criticisms of Putin

  198. 198.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Mark B:
    Thankfully, this is our hope. The press will do everything in their power to hide both candidates from the people, and paint their own fantasy election instead. The farther this goes on, the harder it gets for them to do that. When people actually see Clinton and Trump, they will like her and dislike him.

  202. 202.

    Mark B

    @Kay: I’m sure the rest of the world would be just fine with that plan. I see no negative diplomatic repercussions at all for that. And the Iraqis would welcome a foreign nation coming in and taking their stuff, as much as your or I would welcome a burglar cleaning out our house.

  204. 204.

    Kay

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    I liked the idea I read where they just ask him basic questions: what do sets of initials stand for, who runs what, where places are, that sort of thing. If would be fun for viewers to watch Clinton rattle it off and dumbo choke.

  205. 205.

    Anoniminous

    @Adam L Silverman:

    There’s an awful lot of “obsolete” (sic) medium machine guns, 81mm mortars, 105mm howitzers, and 155mm howitzers sitting around US armories. Might try giving some to the SDF, train ’em up, and see what happens.

  207. 207.

    SiubhanDuinne

    A note about health and stamina: Hillary was standing for much of her time. Donald has been seated since he came on stage.

  212. 212.

    dr. bloor

    Lauer will drag Trumps ass through tonight, but Trump is toast in the debate. He doesn’t have the ego strength, mental stamina or self-control to go through 90 unscripted minutes without melting down.

  215. 215.

    Mnemosyne

    @rikyrah:

    I think a lot of middle-class people don’t quite grok that sometimes poor kids come from bad circumstances beyond their control (like no electricity, no washing machine, have to babysit younger sibs) so they assume kids are skipping school willfully when a lot of times, they’re not. For a lot of poor kids, school can be a refuge that they hate to give up.

  216. 216.

    Corner Stone

    I think Trump has hit his decency limit. He can only go so long without going crazy ass nuts and I think he just went past his limit.

  222. 222.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Kay:
    Yes. That is what they think we should do. They don’t see any moral or practical problems with it. Their concept of strength is bullying, so pushing other countries over and stealing their lunch money makes them proud of themselves.

  224. 224.

    Gin & Tonic

    @efgoldman: That, or I think there’s one in Foxboro. But this CiC thing has driven me to drink (and I’m not even watching it) so I ain’t going nowhere tonight.

  225. 225.

    Adam L Silverman

    I don’t mean to seem unsympathetic, but barring being assaulted – sexually or otherwise – how does one get PTSD serving stateside?

  228. 228.

    Corner Stone

    He didn’t even answer that rape question. He just kept rephrasing it and repeating the rephrasing.

  234. 234.

    JMG

    @Kay: In their minds, it all belongs to us, because we’re us. Back in the early ’70s, I listened to supposedly rational people say we should invade the entire Middle East because after all, “it was our oil.” This election is showing that the US isn’t the last best hope of mankind, it’s one of its most dangerous enemies.

  236. 236.

    SiubhanDuinne

    “What would you do about rape in the military?”

    “That’s a great question, and we need to do something. When I am president, I will do something, because something needs to be done.”

  243. 243.

    germy

    @raven:

    How did you avoid service in Vietnam?

    I doubt Matt will go there. Perfect question though, after his questions for HRC.

  246. 246.

    Mark B

    @Kay: That’s Trump’s plan. I think his supporters must be OK with it. I doubt any ethical person supports it.

  248. 248.

    Kay

    @Mnemosyne:

    We’re doing an attendance push. They lose a lot when they miss. 10 or 15 days a quarter is not unusual for some of them. They get behind and they can’t catch up. Some of it is shift work- their parents have different schedules than they do.

    You know what also works? Nagging. We text them or their parents, do autocalls, send emails, we just bug the crap out of them, in a perky, upbeat way! “We miss you!”

    It works :)

  254. 254.

    Mike E

    I can’t listen to/watch that ferret heedit megalomaniac, fuggit.

    I tried to watch the 1st part with Clinton and quickly questioned her judgment in agreeing to take part in a thinly disguised ambush. Fuck that. I watched Penn and Teller instead.

  255. 255.

    James E Powell

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Anyone want to reconsider who is supporting Tom’s interpretation of the news media versus my interpretation based on what we’re watching at this forum?

    I cannot buy Tom’s interpretation at all. His take might make sense if we were talking about a few stories, but the NYT has been doing this for nearly 25 years. Whether they hate her or are indifferent to her, they all know that writing negative stuff about Hillary Clinton is what gets noticed, clicked, repeated. They also know that bringing her down is the Great White Whale of the Village Courtiers. They also know that no matter how sloppy or outright false the story is, there will be no negative consequences. In fact, a totally false story alleging grave misdeeds by HRC is probably a better career move than a partially true story that only mentions minor problems.

    What is infuriating is that HRC and every living Democrat knew that this would be exactly how the NYT and every one else would behave, and they apparently did absolutely nothing to prepare for it or to fight back.

  258. 258.

    Kay

    @Mark B:

    I love how Iraq turned around on the Right, to where the Iraqis disappointed us and we didn’t get anything out of it.

    That country we invaded really let us down.

  265. 265.

    Feebog

    At least this gives us a window into what the debates will be like. HRC will mop the floor with him.

  266. 266.

    Mnemosyne

    @Kay:

    I freely admit, I’m speaking from a place of ignorance because I’m middle-class and I don’t have kids, but usually middle-school kids love going to school unless there’s something else going on (like bullying, an undiagnosed learning problem, etc). So punishing those kids for truancy seems counterproductive.

  267. 267.

    Mark B

    It also wasn’t fair that Trump went second and was allowed to hear Clinton’s interview. Inherently unfair.

  270. 270.

    JMG

    They want him to be President. May their children be the first victims of his catastrophic administration. Of course they won’t be.

  271. 271.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Corner Stone: I wrote the strategic professional culture analysis on the military rape problem. My boss had been tasked with looking at the problem at the strategic and cultural (as in the Army and its culture) problems. The three biggest problems are:
    1) we don’t actually, or didn’t as of 2013-2014 when I was doing the research and analysis, have a good handle on just how extensive the problem is. The survey implement they use to determine the number isn’t really designed to capture the size, scope, and scale of the problem. Then they use a factor for multiplication as its a survey to determine how widespread it is. Both of these approaches are flawed, so we don’t have an accurate understanding of the problem.
    2) The military’s culture, including its interpersonal dynamics between people of different sexes and genders, is rooted in the larger US culture. In the US we still haven’t decided that women are fully articulated human beings with the same rights as men. For significant American subcultures women, specifically those that might become, might be, and/or are pregnant, cannot be fully articulated human beings with the same rights as men because that would infringe on the rights of the potential life they might be gestating. This has led to significant civil rights violations against women who might become, might be, and/or are pregnant under cover of both law and medical authority. So if we, as Americans, have decided that some women at some times don’t have the right to bodily autonomy, then sexual assault and rape really aren’t as problematic as they seem to be. You can’t solve this problem within the military until we solve it within the larger society and culture. The former is a microcosm of the latter.
    3) The Uniform Code of Military Justice needs to be reformed and revised to deal with this issue. It is NOT designed to handle it. Reforming the UCMJ would be an important part of moving the needle on dealing with rape and sexual assault within the military.

  272. 272.

    Kay

    @James E Powell:

    I’m sick of them saying she’s grim and plodding. She works hard. She takes this seriously. I swear to God it sounds just like when men tell women to “smile!”

    I no longer care what their impressions are of her personality. They’ve made it clear they don’t much value “works hard”. We know that.

  274. 274.

    Adam L Silverman

    @raven: Like I said, I don’t mean to seem insensitive, but I just don’t understand how you can develop PTS at home station/in garrison.

  278. 278.

    joel hanes

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Try to even explain it

    But it’s a very simple story! I shall tell it forthwith.

    —
    It came time to get ready to be Secretary of State.

    Hillary is a grind: she and her staff worked through long lists of milestones and goals strung out for months before she was sworn in. At some point someone asked her “What do you want to do about your Blackberry, and your email?” and she said “What do you mean?” and they explained …

    and like about 80 % of the US population older than 50, she didn’t understand the explanation.

    So she smiled and said “What’s the right thing to do?” and they said “You could do this or this or this …” and she didn’t understand the alternatives, nor the implications of the choices, and didn’t want to deal with multiple devices on multiple networks. And the person she was working with to get her set up and ready on time said, “OK”.

    It has taken heroic effort to produce, from that event, “Crooked Hillary Tried To Hide Her Emails”;
    but today’s Republican Party is up to the task,
    and has been greatly aided by reporters stenographers in DC and NYC.

  279. 279.

    Mark B

    His bullshitting about having a plan was transparently bullshit. I can’t see how anyone could watch that and want him to be in charge of anything more important than a 7-11.

  282. 282.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @raven:

    Fuck no they didn’t. Chicken shit motherfucker.

    Adore you, raven, but I wish you weren’t quite so vague and nuanced in your commentary.

  283. 283.

    raven

    @Adam L Silverman: Me neither but I’d get all kinds of shit if I brought it up so I didn’t. I did know a woman who was a cook in the Army and she got assaulted and she was not in good shape. Also, she said two friends killed themselves, maybe she was close to that.

  285. 285.

    Mark B

    @raven: Fine, but the person who went second should have been kept isolated so that they couldn’t respond directly to the first person’s interview. Luckily for Hillary, he was too dumb to take advantage of the imbalance, but Clinton, if she had gone second, could have made mincemeat of his positions.

  286. 286.

    Trentrunner

    My takeaway:

    1) Media is still horribly biased in favor of horserace.

    2) Media is still appallingly sexist.

    3) Trump is not preparing AT ALL for the debates. Hillary will crush him because of the longer forums and possibility of follow-ups.

    But the race will still be way closer than it should be because of one and two.

  288. 288.

    Peale

    Oddly, I don’t think the outcome of the war would have changed much had bush added “take the oil” to his list of goals.

  289. 289.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Adam L Silverman: In May of 2013 Trump tweeted this: “26,000 unreported sexual assults in the military-only 238 convictions. What did these geniuses expect when they put men & women together?
    “

  291. 291.

    joel hanes

    @debbie:

    the NYT. They’ve become a real disappointment.

    They’ve been a real disappointment in re: Clinton since 1993 or so.
    That’s almost 25 years.

    You are apparently very slow to condemn.

  294. 294.

    MomSense

    The proof Trump offered tonight that he opposed the war before it started was an interview he gave to Esquire Magazine in 2004.

    Why didn’t Lauer remind him that we invaded Iraq in 2003?

  296. 296.

    Adam L Silverman

    Would someone, for the love of anyone’s Deity or Deities, educate the damn media that if you served to the rank of corporal (Enlisted 4) you did not retire from the military. No one does 20 years as an NCO and winds up a corporal (or equivalent in the other services). If you can’t get the most basic facts right, you need to get an assignment covering something else.

  297. 297.

    Kay

    @Mnemosyne:

    So punishing those kids for truancy seems counterproductive.

    Not doing anything for truancy was a disaster, though. We tried that here for a decade. They just didn’t go. The key seems to be constant contact with kids who miss a lot. It’s much easier with technology. They can even see patterns- “she always misses Fridays” and they can do that for all of them and track it.

  299. 299.

    Adam L Silverman

    Next time Riekhoff decides he wants a forum, because he and his membership have specific questions, than maybe, just maybe, he should negotiate so he can moderate it and ask those damn questions.

  300. 300.

    Mark B

    @Peale: I honestly think if we had Oil extraction operations in Iraq without consent of the locals, there would have been a much larger war as we would be fighting guerrillas and also other Middle East oil producing nations. And we wouldn’t get any oil, as the oil producing areas would be on fire for years as every well that wasn’t under heavy guard would be blown up.

  301. 301.

    Kay

    @MomSense:

    Just ask him “when did we invade Iraq?” Trump benefits from the assumption he knows ordinary facts. They don’t know what to do with such a completely unqualified candidate.

  304. 304.

    jl

    @Mark B: Huh… what part of ‘take the oil’ don’t you understand? You TAKE the oil. Simple.

    (/snark tag here, if one is needed)

    I’ll watch the tapes, if anything worthwhile transpires. Can barely watch this Lauer guy. Seems like a control freak rage-a-holic to me. Seems like he is always irritated. And he is none too bright, IMHO. In other words, not a Lauer fan. But then, I think you have to be a little weird to make news actor diva rank in US corporate media. So a lot of them strike me that way.

  305. 305.

    Adam L Silverman

    @raven: My guess, though I hate to speculate, is she was assaulted. And that and the loss of her two friends have effected her. Though it could just be the latter. I’m not trying to downplay her PTS, nor suggest it not be taken seriously, it just seemed odd.

  311. 311.

    Mark B

    @jl: I know, it’s as simple as running into a house and filling a suitcase with jewelry and valuables. It’s not like you would have to have a large-scale extraction operation spread over thousands of miles, using many thousands of people and millions of dollars worth of temperamental and vulnerable equipment and transportation infrastructure spread over thousands of square miles. Stealing oil is just child’s play.

  312. 312.

    MomSense

    Maddow didn’t even correct the guy who said we gave billions of dollars to Iran. Why can’t they just correct false statements in real time.

  313. 313.

    Peale

    @jl: it seems to be a very expensive way to obtain oil. Couldn’t we just buy all the oil output from Iraq rather than invest $200 billion a year protecting our treasure?

  315. 315.

    scav

    @raven: Former veterans? I’m pretty sure my great-grandfather is still a veteran, admittedly a very dead veteran — but I’m fairly confident I can vouch for his not being part of a large voting bloc, even if promoted to former veteran status. Hella big stone, in his case.

  316. 316.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Peale: You couldn’t work your way down to junior enlisted. Officers (O) is one cohort, enlisted and non-commisioned officers (E) is another, and warrant officers is a third (WO). Though some start as enlisted and go through the enlisted to officer program. All warrants usually start as enlisted as well. If you were reduced in rank that many times, in any cohort, you’d be either separated with a dishonorable or bad conduct discharge or you’d be in a brig somewhere. And no one, these days, starts as a major (O4) or equivalent. The days of being able to find certain professionals with specific necessary skill sets for specific endeavors, recruit them, run them through OCS, and commission them in some way commensurate with their civilian professional standing ended a long time ago.

  318. 318.

    FEMA Camp Counselor

    @JMG: You doing anything about it? Canvassing? Phonebanking?

    If not, I’d suggest it. Channel all of that pent up anxiety into something productive.

    I can’t control whatever stupid crap comes out of The Village. I can control going out into my community and getting the vote out.

  319. 319.

    Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman)

    It’s a damn good thing I quit drinking or I’d be in an alcoholic coma right now after that ‘town hall’ farce.

  320. 320.

    jl

    @MomSense: Scary that so many people can swallow that kind of BS and support Trump. I mean, hell, I normally smart school kid would wonder.

    “Mommy, that oil is all gooey and sticky, and it stinks. How do we get all home? Yuk.”

  321. 321.

    MomSense

    @Kay:

    Lauer probably doesn’t know when the war started. Maybe we shouldn’t have the same broadcasting personalities cover all the topics. Why not let Malcolm Nance ask the questions.

  323. 323.

    Mark B

    @Peale: Business men like Trump prefer to steal rather than buying. Even if it costs more. That’s the only explanation for a casino going bankrupt, since the very definition of a casino is that you get money from idiots for nothing.

    Edit: And taking money from drunks and addicts.

  324. 324.

    piratedan

    ty all for watching this shit and allowing me to follow it, thru your comments, vicariously. Really is good for my blood pressure having the BJ Community as a sanity filter.

  326. 326.

    Peale

    I wonder if Matt Laurer’s behavior was related to the cover story on the National Enquirer this week interviewing his drug dealer.

  329. 329.

    Glidwrith

    I noticed Lauer crossed up Deadbeat with his bullshit on knowing more than the generals yet also wanting their plan to deal with ISIS. And how did he have Deadbeat’s tweet about women and rape in the military? Knew questions in advance?

  332. 332.

    Adam L Silverman

    @raven: Almost everybody that trained me said it. And I was also deployed with a tank brigade, so they said it a lot too.

  338. 338.

    jl

    @Peale: Really? Huh.. maybe Lauer is hopped up on various stuff and is hearing and seeing things. That would explain his habitual appearance of suppressed smoldering agitation. He needs to really really focus.

    So, Lauer is a junkie of some kind? I guess I think a little better of him now.

  340. 340.

    hovercraft

    @Adam L Silverman:
    This tweet

    Donald J. Trump
    @realDonaldTrump

    26,000 unreported sexual assults in the military-only 238 convictions. What did these geniuses expect when they put men & women together?
    4:04 PM – 7 May 2013

  341. 341.

    marc

    @Cacti: Wow. On multiple occasions Trump called USA, USMC, and USAF General Officers and USN Flag Officers stupid, useless, or losers. Except for 88 former ones, I guess.

  342. 342.

    Adam L Silverman

    @raven: I’m sure the lingo changed. My ASO who was a retired 18D from Vietnam didn’t use it. The younger guys from SOF that were involved in the training – the Civil Affairs guys and some of the 18s – did use it. The most senior person that trained me, a retired 18A from Vietnam of whom you have some knowledge, never used it.

  344. 344.

    Wapiti

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Would someone, for the love of anyone’s Deity or Deities, educate the damn media that if you served to the rank of corporal (Enlisted 4) you did not retire from the military.

    Would it be possible to be medically retired as a corporal?

  345. 345.

    raven

    @Adam L Silverman: A lot of radio procedure became tied up in the language I guess,” Lima Charlie” and “5×5” were big for us as was “copy”. We even had WTF-K on our jeeps.

  346. 346.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @raven: In October of ’44, my grandfather was a Technical Sergeant (by your time that would have been SFC), he got busted down to PFC early in the month. He had his sergeant’s stripes back by the beginning of November and finished up as a SSG.

    ETA: I have no idea why he got busted.

  347. 347.

    NorthLeft12

    @piratedan: Ditto. I just can’t bear to watch Trump without yelling at the TV screen which upsets/annoys the pets. And the dog is not feeling well right now [kennel cough]. I also have a hard time watching HRC, solely because the questions she is asked are so inane and leading that I also want to yell at the TV.
    And I am a Detroit Lions fan for over 45 years, so like other Lions fans, I have raised yelling at the TV to an art form.

  348. 348.

    Corner Stone

    Wow, Amazon asks the really tough questions. How many stars would I give ‘John Wick’ ? Hmmm, ALL THE STARS, AMAZON! ALL OF THEM!

  350. 350.

    Kay

    They’re not reading these emails before they ask the email questions:

    this (not very damning) Powell-to-HRC email more damning than any known HRC email (1/2): “we just went about our business & stopped asking.”

    Clinton is exonerated by these emails. Powell lied. The email story is the exact opposite of how they’re portraying it.

    I can’t imagine being her. I would be walking around furious every day.

  351. 351.

    Corner Stone

    Is it a problem that Discover Card is sending me another credit card due to security breach before I have even received my replacement card from the recent prior potential security breach?

  353. 353.

    raven

    @Omnes Omnibus: When I got the book on my ancestors civil war unit one of the only things about him in the book was that he got busted for AWOL early in the war. He was a Sgt when he got killed.

  354. 354.

    Walker

    Have you seen the ridiculous tweet from Maggie Haberman?

    Clinton got tougher questions, but also got visibly irritated and defensive. Trump got mostly softballs. But he rode over them.

    This clearly puts the media in the pro-Trump category.

  355. 355.

    JMG

    @Kay: One reason the attacks keep getting more detached from reality is that all those media members, who know no other way of reporting than access, know that if she’s President, they’ll be on the outside looking in but good. It’d be the simplest thing in the world for Pres. Clinton to call the Times and say “you can have an exclusive interview if you send the NHL reporter. I think he/she’s good. But from now on, talking to any member of your Washington bureau is a firing offense around here.”

  357. 357.

    Mary G

    I had to turn it off shortly after Trump started to save my blood pressure, but did he say that a lot of the retired generals who endorsed him today were in the audience of the “town hall?” That seems fishy.

  361. 361.

    FEMA Camp Counselor

    @JMG: Well that’s good to here. I don’t get the despairing with two months left to go, but I hope you keep putting your all into it.

  364. 364.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Omnes Omnibus: Heard both. The first time someone told me to sit and squat it took me a moment to figure out what 1) they were saying and 2) if I was supposed to be insulted.

  365. 365.

    Mnemosyne

    @Kay:

    Yeah, not tracking at all is even worse. What I like about the story that rikyrah linked to is that the teacher talked to the kids who were missing school, found out why they were missing it, and helped solve the problem.

    If a teacher notices that a middle-schooler is missing a lot of school, someone needs to sit down with that child and find out why they’re having a problem getting to school and what help they need.

  367. 367.

    Gin & Tonic

    @JMG: Here’s I.F. Stone:

    Reporters tend to be absorbed by the bureaucracies they cover; they take on the habits, attitudes, and even accents of the military or the diplomatic corps.

  370. 370.

    Matt McIrvin

    @The Pale Scot:

    She’s on the Intrepid, and she’s not using the SR-71 as a backdrop??

    It’s not actually an SR-71, it’s an A-12. It would be a scandal! If she can’t stand in front of a real SR-71, what else is she lying to us about????

  371. 371.

    JMG

    @Walker: Clinton can’t win with them. It’s Bush-Gore, the sequel. Wonder what Haberman will think when special adviser to the President Ailes gropes her in the White House.

  372. 372.

    Kay

    @Walker:

    Clinton got tougher questions, but also got visibly irritated and defensive. Trump got mostly softballs. But he rode over them.

    We’re making progress though. They’re admitting they have set a higher bar for Clinton. She’s smarter and she works harder so it’s fair to even it up like that, right?

  374. 374.

    Amir Khalid

    Vanity Fair’s David Kamp reports that Bruce Springsteen, who campaigned for the Democratic candidate in the last three presidential elections, hasn’t decided yet what he will do this time.

    I asked Springsteen if he has any plans to get involved in this year’s presidential election, having actively campaigned in 2008 and 2012 for Barack Obama. He has been silent in this cycle, though at a June concert at Munich’s Olympic Stadium he held up a fan’s handmade sign that read, FUCK TRUMP, WE WANNA DANCE WITH THE BOSS. Springsteen demurred, noting that an artist has only so many “bullets,” credibility-wise, to shoot. But, he said, “when the times have felt very drastic, I feel like, ‘Well, I gotta put my two cents in.’ So we’ll see what happens.”

    OH NOES! Hillary has failed to win the crucial Boss endorsement!

  376. 376.

    Peale

    @JMG: it’s how he looked when he groped her. Did he look flustered? Defensive? Then it doesn’t matter what’s behind the grope or its implications. She’ll say that the new White House handles it’s gropes well.

  377. 377.

    Aleta

    @Adam L Silverman: I suppose similar to ways it can happen to non-service members? And of course it depends on the person, since the same stressor affects different people differently. Leaving aside sex assault as you said, I’m thinking it could be caused by:
    prolonged bullying by a superior officer or by a group of peers
    accident you tried to prevent but couldn’t, especially if someone died
    witnessing a friend’s suicide or accidental death
    severe training accident (either witnessing or experiencing)

    A few years ago an article appeared about rates of suicide in stateside Marines vs Marines who had gone to Iraq or Afghanistan. What I remember is that the rate for Marines who had never gone overseas was higher than one would expect.

    It may be that the individual’s genetics and past are more of a predictor (though not yet) than a certain event.

  379. 379.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @efgoldman: That still happens, but the WWII era practice of running a banker through OCS-lite and then making him a Major on someone’s staff is long gone.

  380. 380.

    Kay

    @Mnemosyne:

    Right, but it’s scale. They want to know more than why one child misses- they want to do more than put out fires. Schools are local. They reflect their communities. If you can identify The Big Three Reasons you can push most of them up and that leaves time for complex problems.

    One thing we did was start them all at the same time. That helps parents with kids of different ages. If you have a grade schooler and a high schooler they go at the same time. The high schoolers were leaving earlier which left younger sibs alone. A lot of these sibling groups are taking care of each other. The side benefit was they got “green” credits because they’;re burning less fuel.

  381. 381.

    Adam L Silverman

    @efgoldman: They do. But that’s as high as you can start. There use to be provisions for direct commissioning at higher rank as necessary. That’s now prohibited by a Federal law.

  386. 386.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Omnes Omnibus: Yep. Not being able to do that is, largely, a good thing. It does, however, prevent us from getting some specialists into certain functional areas though.

  391. 391.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Adam L Silverman: One of the reasons it happened in WWII is the massive expansion of the military. Pre-War LTs became CPTs almost instantly, but they were not ready to be field grade officers. So where to you get the field grades? Promote the CPTs, but there was still a shortage.

    The modern military does not need to work that way.

  395. 395.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Omnes Omnibus: I agree with one or two caveats. Certain functional areas could still use the flexibility. Specifically Civil Affairs and I base that on working with them both operationally, working on the Civil Affairs Capabilities Based Assessment and Joint Civil Information Management Test Development, and as the TACON Cultural Advisor to the Branch Chief to assist with developing the 38G/Military Support to Governance specialty.

  398. 398.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    @dmsilev: I “liked” his quip today (in his new hairdo that actually makes his hair look like that of a human male) that he was going to tell “my generals” to come up with a plan to defeat ISIS.

    Funny, I thought that General and Flag Officers were officers under the United States as mentioned in the Constitution, require Senate confirmation, and were not just flunkies of the President.

    (sigh)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  402. 402.

    Corner Stone

    @Adam L Silverman: Then it’s too bad you’re only 29 and not old enough to run for president.
    Everything out of Bacevich’s piehole tonight was smug BS. HRC wouldn’t have gotten 7 seconds into the Syrian conflict without ML asking her if she ever sent any emails about Syria. And Trump would have said, “We need to do something about the Sharians. And I have a plan for that. But it’s good to be unpredictable.”

  404. 404.

    Chris

    @Adam L Silverman:

    So it doesn’t matter that specific reporters and journalists have made an explicit or implicit choice to view the Clintons as corrupt, crooked, unethical, untrustworthy, and criminal. That the leadership – from owners to publishers to editors to directors – of their organizations do, or that the most senior people do, creates the conditions where these beliefs are socially learned and transmitted.

    I read something about this a couple weeks ago that felt fairly spot-on –

    My observation — the one that more or less persuaded me to leave newsroom work back in 2000 — was that the owners/publishers of media and their inevitably conservative managers (editors, producers, etc.) actually viewed the “liberal media” canard as a great way to keep their frequently liberal employees in line, which is why they not only tolerated the canard, they actively cultivated it. After all, genuflecting to the canard gave them all the excuse they needed to force a conservative agenda onto their pages and airwaves.

    (Dave Neiwert, re-posted over at The Real Interrobang).

  405. 405.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Corner Stone: I understand why you’re frustrated. His questions were good, but I agree that they were never going to be asked at this forum or any other.

  407. 407.

    Glidwrith

    @Adam L Silverman: Deadbeat seemed to think he can install the generals who have endorsed him into the military. Since they must be retired in order to endorse him, is there a means for a President to do this?

  408. 408.

    Mnemosyne

    @Chris:

    That’s how we ended up with the HUAC blacklist in Hollywood — the studio bosses used it to try and bust the then-nascent screenwriters’ union (now the Writers Guild), along with the rest of the unions. Didn’t work, fortunately, but the attempt ruined a whole lot of people’s lives.

  409. 409.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    @gogol’s wife: Yup. But afterwards W fiddled while bin Laden attacked, started (but couldn’t finish) two wars in very complex countries in dangerous parts of the world, let an American city drown, let the banksters blow up a housing bubble that nearly destroyed the world economy when it (as it eventually would) burst, etc., etc.

    As much as people like to forget history, some history cannot be ignored and forgotten. We know the risks of letting a blowhard idiot get the Presidency….

    Cheers,
    Scott.
    (Who still thinks that there’s a better than even chance that Trump will not debate her.)

  410. 410.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Glidwrith: No, there isn’t. He could try to force significant numbers into retirement, but their replacements would be those currently serving at lower ranks. As much as there is a disconnect between the general officers/flag officers and those below them across all cohorts, a poorly disguised purge and the attempt to install toadies will not go over well. Especially with the officer cohort. We do a great job educating the military, but especially the career personnel, on Civil-Military relations.

  411. 411.

    Chris

    @Adam L Silverman:

    As someone who was there, I can sincerely tell you that Iran has been controlling Iraq since 2005 when we installed Maliki, who had been in exile in Iran, was bankrolled by Iran, and who’s political movement was backed by Iran as Prime Minister of Iraq in combination with converting the Badr Corps, the militia of the al Hakim religious movement, which was stood up in exile in Iran, was funded by Iran, and was trained by the Iranian Quds Force, into the majority of the Arab half of the Iraqi Army.

    Was doing research on the region for a professor in 2009 who basically said the exact same thing.

    Question: was that ever not going to happen? Shi’ites are the majority in Iraq, and Iran had twenty years of experience sheltering exiles and building ties with Iraqi Shi’ite factions persecuted by Saddam. That Iran would be the big winner of Saddam’s fall was no surprise – it’s the reason the Saudis wouldn’t get on board with Bush’s little war. I’m sure there are Shi’ite politicians that aren’t buddies with Iran, but were there ever enough to be a serious alternative to those who were?

  412. 412.

    divF

    @efgoldman: I think that things have not changed as much for physicians. The still train at Ft. Sam Houston (as they have since at least the 1960’s), and the ranks are pretty much the same as they have been: O-2 for an intern, O-3 for a licensed physician (e.g. a resident post first-year), O-4 once you finish residency (at least in the medical specialties – I don’t know about surgeons).

  413. 413.

    Chris

    @JMG:

    In their minds, it all belongs to us, because we’re us. Back in the early ’70s, I listened to supposedly rational people say we should invade the entire Middle East because after all, “it was our oil.” This election is showing that the US isn’t the last best hope of mankind, it’s one of its most dangerous enemies.

    Back in the early 2000s, I still read right-wing blogs, and I remember at least a few people doing a cutesy “for argument’s sake” defense of the “war for oil” notion: well, our society is based on soil, so is it really wrong to go to war for oil? Not that this war is for oil. But so what if it was? Not that it is. But even if it was…?

  415. 415.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Chris: It didn’t have to, but because of what the Coalition Provisional Authority did it was kind of a fait accompli. Once we disbanded the Iraqi Army and decided to rebuild from scratch we wound up with an Iraqi Army that was about 1/2 Kurdish Pesh, 1/2 Shi’a – predominantly from the exile Badr Corps, with small percentages of Sunnis. Has caused no end to problems.

  416. 416.

    Ruckus

    @Mark B:

    So far, Donald Trump is coming across as a dangerously stupid and ignorant fool, who is just trying to bullshit his way through the interview.

    It’s not just the interview. He’s the guy who has done this every day of his life, in every situation he’s ever been in.

  417. 417.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    @hovercraft: A committee hearing has a different dynamic than a press conference. There are always people in the press who think that they have the magic question that will trip the person up and cause their whole facade to come crashing down. If she did an eleven hour press conference and just sat there calmly taking all their questions, multiple times, the reporters would get bored with it. Sitting for eleven hours is a mild form of torture, especially these days!

    Yeah, it won’t make the questions go away, just like it didn’t reduce White Water and Cattle Futures to a vaudeville-esque joke, but it would change the dynamic (for a while anyway).

    Maybe in the mid-November lull before Thanksgiving, or something. Whenever she’s bored – not on their timeline.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  418. 418.

    Chris

    @Trentrunner:

    1) Media is still horribly biased in favor of horserace.

    I know I keep saying this, but no, I don’t buy the “media loves a horserace” narrative. Because I don’t believe that they would be behaving this way if the situation was reversed. The MSM would not be carrying water for a Democratic candidate that was as unqualified and had as high negatives as Trump. They would not be putting every action by his Republican opponent under a microscope just to make the race more interesting. They certainly would not be wringing their hands about how liberal!Trump was just a cry for help from [black people, immigrants, union workers, wev] and proves that we must all work very hard to make those poor unfortunate souls feel less alienated. They’d simply be backing the Republican and undermining the Democrat, like they’re doing right now.

  419. 419.

    Glidwrith

    @Adam L Silverman: Christ, I hadn’t even considered that he could try to purge the military until he got the result he wanted. I can see him doing it.

    Adding to the nightmare list…

  422. 422.

    Chris

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I follow that the army could have been done better if it hadn’t been disbanded and required us to reform it from anti-Saddam militias. And I assume the same is true of the civil service if de-Ba’athification hadn’t gutted it.

    I was mostly asking just for the political level of things. Demographics of Iraq and two-decades-long relationship with Iran being what it is, I don’t see how the Iraqi government doesn’t end up under the control of a Shi’a majority of politicians, a disproportionate number of whom are close to Iran. (At least not without us going with either the Lebanese “confessional” model or the Friendly Dictator model, either of which come with baggage of their own).

  423. 423.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Chris: The issue was that the policy, as executed by the CPA, was to empower the exiles. These were predominantly Shi’a and predominantly returning from decades, if not generations, in Iran. That policy did not have to be created nor executed. There were non-exile Shi’a and Sunni that had never left that could have been empowered. We chose to not do that.

  425. 425.

    Chris

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Ah, yes.

    We didn’t hear much about people who never left in the run-up to the war. IIRC, the logic was that any effective civil society must have been run into the ground by Saddam long ago.

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