I’m too tired to discuss the events of the day regarding the house, but I need to buy a stove and a fridge and a dishwasher and I am realizing now I am clueless.
I’m Lost
This post is in: John Cole Presents "This Fucking Old House"
This post is in: John Cole Presents "This Fucking Old House"
I’m too tired to discuss the events of the day regarding the house, but I need to buy a stove and a fridge and a dishwasher and I am realizing now I am clueless.
Comments are closed.
Omnes Omnibus
I am an advocate for my state. Try this.
Big R
The Sweethome is your friend, John. They don’t have an honest-to-G-d dishwasher review, but here’s some help:
Electric and Gas Ranges
Portable Dishwasher
Refrigerator
Hope this helps.
Big R
Well, shit, I appear to be in moderation. John, I sent you some links. They’re in the abyss.
Steeplejack
Short version: spend the $30 to get a Consumer Reports on-line subscription; use that as a starting point.
Long version: Don’t get ahead of yourself. If your new house is a wreck and you are facing major renovations (or you are considering specific renovations anyway, and kitchens are always top of the list), individual appliances are not the first thing you should be worrying about. Last I heard, you were going to take a (relatively) leisurely approach and move into the house in the spring. If you are going to redo the kitchen, you need to get a grip on the macro plan before you get down to the micro details like specific appliance models.
Plus we could have great Balloon Juice threads on all these topics. You’ve got a tremendous brain trust of knowledgeable blowhards to draw on.
Bobby Thomson
Back in the day I would have said Kenmore (or Whirlpool, which is often the exact same product with a different badge).
Doctor Science
I recently did just that!
stove (range, technically): *Induction* range, very science. GE Profile
fridge: also GE Profile. Biggest decision to make: do you insist on outside water/ice dispenser? They are responsible for literally 1/2 of repairs, so if you can do without, do so. also you don’t want stainless, you want something magnets will stick on, ffs.
dishwasher: Bosch. So quiet it’s creepy.
Also got a Sharp microwave drawer. Frees up counter space, stuff doesn’t spill as much taking in and out.
Email me if you want details.
Omnes Omnibus
@efgoldman: it is expensive, but ii is wonderful. I offered a choice and I advocated for Wisconsin.
exlitigator
I live in a big city, so Angie’s list is very helpful finding reputable contractors. A good handyman is a godsend. If you are committed to doing stuff yourself. I am amazed how much stuff is on you tube for how to videos. On appliances, I have bought the floor models from Home Depot or Loews. They may have cosmetic dents, but work fine.Good Luck. Or just say fuck it and pet your dogs.
Mary G
I have had good luck with whatever Consumer Reports rates highly. I got an LG fridge and stove after my mom died in 2010 and despite her dying wish I got rid of her 30-year-old Kenmore. They were half off because the style of their handles were so 2008. I’m happy with them.
The Ancient Randonneur
You love to cook so this is your chance to invest in some quality kitchen equipment. You don’t have to go crazy, but if you are tempted to splurge anywhere this is the place to do it. Go to houzz.com and look around at kitchens. It’s mostly design oriented but it will give you ideas for appliance purchases. If you have a restaurant supply company that you can drive to in an hour or two it would be well worth the trip. They sell commercial equipment but you can usually find the residential analog from the same company. Don’t buy commercial equipment unless you a willing to have it professionally installed. Your homeowners insurance will not cover you if it isn’t installed buy a pro.
TaMara (HFG)
I second the Consumer Reports, just to get you started. I’d stay away from Kenmore dishwasher – we can discuss more if needed, Refrigerator – freezer on the bottom offers the most space – plus they have ones with top drawers for stuff you need all the time and bottom drawer for deep freeze.
If you’re remodeling the kitchen, you can usually get a better deal if you buy all three at the same time (especially if you go to an appliance store or to Sears).
Gas or electric – go with what makes you happy. Don’t be bullied by what someone else says is the best way to cook. I’ve cooked on them all – skill matters more, IMHO.
md S Oregon
Just go to Sears and pick out what you like. My grandpa was an Electrical Engineer and always swore that GE was the best. Between divorce and kneecapping by the mortgage meltdown, I have been dragging appliances around since the late 1990’s. I bought a GE convection/micro and it broke my heart to send it to the dump (no room, and no one wanted it). It still worked fine. In 2002, the house I bought had a brand new stove and fridge. Not one problem with either, and the fridge sits on my daughter’s back deck now. Same with the washer and dryer. I believe Whirlpool, GE and Kenmore are all the same.
Evan
Stoves, you can often buy used, from people who are remodeling.
Fridges, I recommend buying new, because they use a lot of power and they’re getting better year by year. Years ago I bought a used refrigerator to save money, and in less than six months, it cost me more in electricity than the money I’d saved.
Major Major Major Major
@Mary G: Consumer Reports is great, yeah.
Tmflibrarian
Before paying for a Consumer Reports subscription, check to see if your local library already has it as part of their reference package. A lot of them do, and you just need to call for their online password.
Mary G
They’ve jacked up the price since I last used it, but Consumer Reports also has a by the month online subscription for $6.95, so you don’t have to spend $30 for a whole year.
When I was young and poor I just went to the library.
encephalopath
I’m a convert to induction for the range.
The fine temperature control is exquisite, energy use highly efficient, and the cook top doesn’t really get hot so you can’t light yourself on fire.
CaseyL
Take it easy. Deep breaths. This is a great opportunity to create your dream kitchen in your dream house. I second/third/fifth recommendations to get an on-line consumer reports subscription for their appliance ratings.
It may be a good idea to get all three appliances together, and make sure the store will install the new ones and haul away the old ones.
Check to see if the stove, or the space for the stove, is for a “drop in” or “push in.” The drop-ins don’t go all the way to the floor; there’s a panel or something they need to be dropped into/onto. If you have a drop-in, seriously consider spending the extra money to have the panel removed for a push-in model: there are more makes/models of those.
Dishwashers – make sure you get a model with a built-in garbage disposal. If you also have a regular garbage disposal under the sink, be sure to ask if the plumbing for the dishwasher will interfere with the plumbing for the disposal. I have to run the disposal to clear the pipes before I run the dishwasher, or things back up in a horrifying manner.
It’s an adventure. It’s also a romance. When I bought my house, for the first year it was like I had a new love in my life. I’d see something and think “the house might like that.” I had a wonderful time making the place my own!
ETA: Induction may be a great way to cook, but be aware you need special cookware for it.
Keith P.
I just gave up on trying to watch “Now You See Me 2”. I lasted about 1/2 hour. Lizzy Caplan was 10x more annoying than Isla Fisher, and this may be Woody Harrelson’s worse acting performance (as his own twin brother, Chase). Unwatchable.
Sfinny
In 2008 I bought a new stove that I love: GE Cafe Gas Range. Somewhat pricey ($2,400) but has the gas range, regular and convection oven, and stove top griddle that are great. Also bought a new fridge a couple of years before, Frigidaire Gallery, that has been good. Would not advise the stainless steel covering with pets. Tends to require frequent cleaning to remove spots, smudges, etc.
Been happy with both and have had no problems, for what it is worth.
pseudonymous in nc
@efgoldman:
I’m going to suggest something different: if there’s a Habitat for Humanity ReStore within easy distance, see what they have. If you’re going to remodel and live in the place while you do it, then buy what appliances you need to get by, treat them as year-long rentals and donate them back when you’ve remodelled. If not, see if there’s a used appliance store. Same principle.
I’d agree that an old fridge is a false economy given the power improvements over the past decade or so, but I also think it’s possible to get by with gear you have no real emotional investment in for a short period while you’re working out what you really want and working on bigger stuff.
shortribs
First and most important step, measure the spaces they’ll go in, that will help narrow down what you can get. Also, get all the same color/style, goes a long way towards giving the kitchen a nice look.
opiejeanne
John, one thing I will recommend spending a bit more on when you get to that point: the dishwasher. Get a Bosch; they are quiet and they do a great job on a shorter cycle than most dishwashers. Lowe’s has several models, starting in the $600s, and they were on sale this weekend. Ours is 6 years old, cost under $800 at an appliance store, and we have not regretted buying. The appliance store price-matched with Lowe’s and came in under their sale price for a slightly better machine.
Many large appliance stores have sales of “dingers” and there may be a company specializing in just that, appliance discards. You can find real treasures at these places.
Mnemosyne
In addition to Consumer Reports, check The Sweet Home for reviews. I’ve mostly consulted them for small appliances (like my blender), but they review large ones as well.
Anne Laurie
John, seriously: First gut as much as you’re gonna, and then worry about appliances. Chances are you’ll decide at least once during the renovations to make a giant rearrangement of the floor plans, and you don’t want your ideas constrained by the giant shiny very heavy new appliances sitting in the space.
Researching alllll the options online is a good break when you’re too tired or time-constrained to do actual work on the house.
As others have said, if you’re buying several appliances, the big-box stores will give you a nice discount. We bought a washer, dryer & stove a few months ago, and could’ve added a dishwasher ‘for free’ if it wouldn’t have meant completely remodeling our tiny outdated kitchen before we could use it. (Not that I’d have minded getting rid of the 1950s pressboard & formica that’s needed replacement since we bought the place 20 years ago, but we’re in the middle of several other major money-sucks so the Spousal Unit balked.)
opiejeanne
@shortribs: I have a red Blue Star range, all the other appliances are stainless steel, but I regret being talked into replacing the perfectly fine white fridge because stainless steel is impervious to magnets, and I have a nice collection of them.
This is my kitchen: http://www.houzz.com/projects/466838/country-kitchen
This is where we started: https://flic.kr/p/8h36WM
This is our adjustment to the original, before we spent the big bucks: https://flic.kr/p/8QL7tp
Mary G
With dishwashers compare what decibel level they put out.
Mnemosyne
Authors among us, I’m seeking an opinion:
One of the Texas chapters of the RWA does a small contest that sounds like you’re essentially paying $35 for a critique of your first 5,000 words. I’m actually okay with that, because I haven’t gotten a critique partner yet and I’d like to make sure I’m not getting too far off-track with my genre. Terrible idea or okay idea since I’m doing it for the critique opportunity?
(I appreciate that they actually show you the critique sheet that everyone receives back so you know what you’re getting yourself into.)
laura
Get a gander at the Consumer Reports.
Then go to the sears Lowe’s home despot and do a look see. If you’ve got a restore, check it out.
On the dishwasher, pull the racks out and see which one feels the most well built for use.
Same with the stove. Do you drag pots and pans across the burners or spill stuff. How easy will cleaning the stove top be? Are the parts removable and dishwasher safe? Will your kind of cooking be enhanced or hindered by any particular model?
Fridge -how many non-essential features do you need, and will they become a source of problems? Example: many have in the door extras like ice and water or automatic ice makers. They take up valuable real estate and can get plugged, or keep churning out ice like the sorcerers apprentice, or stop working at all.
Do the shelves give you the opportunity to move rearrange for turkeys, tall stuff and the like?
Know who you are, and what you hate, and you should be good to go.
And like everybody’s said, slightly used, slightly damaged equals savings!
Anyone but Trump
@encephalopath: @encephalopath: @encephalopath: Double thumbs up on induction, we remodeled the kitchen in 2008 and splurged. Love the damn thing…
Steeplejack
@Tmflibrarian:
Gotta say that $30 is a very small price to pay to support one of the last bastions of high-quality consumer journalism. Think of it as a donation to a good cause.
Keith P.
On the appliance front, when I bought my house 10 years ago, I was going to put in all Whirlpool Architect (or maybe Kitchenaid) stuff. Got the top end dishwasher (super quiet), the French door fridge with the freezer on the bottom…stopped there for a bit. I’ve had to replace the dishwasher motor assembly twice now (easy but just annoying to have to do, and it’s about $200 for the whole shebang). The fridge, I HATE. Those French doors are the bane of my existence…the left door has this hinged thing attached to seal both doors when it closes. But if you close the left door last, it often will not shut all the way. And that light will stay on and on and on until the inside registers 90 degrees or so. It’s got an alarm that sometimes goes off but often does not. I’ve got a friend with a Samsung fridge that has this soft on LED light, so it doesn’t heat the fridge up, and it’s really soothing when you open the door.
Steeplejack
@encephalopath:
I am induction-curious, especially after my previous apartment had a ceramic cooktop that I found, somewhat to my surprise, that I liked a lot. Not that it’s an issue likely to come up anytime soon, but I would love to fiddle around with an induction range for a bit before specifying it for my dream kitchen.
I have thought about getting one of those one-burner countertop induction units. Anybody got a recommendation or relevant experience on those?
laura
@Sfinny: OMG YES! We splurged and got the GE. It’s the most joyful appliance and one of the nicest things I’m ever going to have. A splash of boiling water and the cook top is clean. It should easily last the rest of my life.
ant
we just picked out a new gas stove.
For me, it was all about the burner configuration.
I found in the past, that the big gas burners tend to throw out more heat to the outside of the pan, and into the house, than into the pan where I want it. So I picked the configuration that had a small burner in the middle, instead of the ginormous griddle burner that I will never use.
Overall, I was pretty disappointed with the controls on modern stoves. I like knobs, not cheap buttons. The real high dollar ones come with touch screens now. That’s even worse. I’m not impressed with touch screens. At all.
What I would REALLY like in my kitchen, is a wok well, like what you’d find in a Chinese restaurant kitchen, with the associated bajillion BTUs. But that isn’t available at any price where we shopped.
CZanne
Seconding the suggestions of induction stove and Bosch dishwasher. We replaced the stove when we moved last year; I’d spent 15 years cooking with gas and was never very good with electric. But running a gas line from the furnace would have been a huge disruption and massively expensive and might not have gotten code approval, since our kitchen is on the 2nd floor. I went induction with a convection oven. It has everything I love about gas — I can control the heat instantly, with fine gradations — plus it’s so much easier to clean, being a smooth glass top and it’s both safer than gas and much more efficient. The convection oven is a dream. Ours is a whirlpool, the entry model induction. The only downside is making sure your cookware is compatible, but since I mostly use IKEA cookware, which is almost all induction-friendly, it’s not a huge concern.
We didn’t replace the dishwasher when we moved in; that was a mistake. I had a Bosch Ascenta — a Lowe’s special — and it was perfectly reliable, quiet and it always got the job done.
But do take a deep breath, don’t panic, and get the whole picture in mind before you start leaping in. If you need to replace the flooring, or if the cabinets are rickety, do that before appliances. I have rebuilt three kitchens from gut level up. It’s all about planning and process.
The Dangerman
Costco. They have Costco’s in WV, right? Bonus, they pay their line people very well.
ETA: Unfuckingbelievable! Not a single Costco in WV!! I’ve been to the backwaters of backwaters that have had Costco’s. WTF?
inventor
@srv:
Have your staff do them.
Ruckus
@opiejeanne:
I like your picture on the old kitchen link. Sort of amazed you aren’t sticking out your tongue.
NotMax
If budgetarily feasible, buy everything at the same time from the same place. Often you can cut a deal on price by doing that.
Also too, have heard good things about the under counter ‘on demand’ hot water thingies.
Suzanne
Fridges: hate the French doors. Energy improvements are typically because most models share a compressor between refrigerator and freezer, so smell transfers. Extended warranty is likely worth it for this item. Never get the through-door ice.
Dishwasher: get one with a built-in softener, even if you have a whole-house softener.
Kitchen in general: get quartz (Zodiaq or similar) or solid surface (Corian, Hi-Macs, or similar) countertops. No concrete or stone unless you want to expend effort sealing it. Never wood or tile and please no plastic laminate. Also, stainless appliances are on their way out, so think ahead.
NotMax
Ought to go without saying: avocado, harvest gold or turquoise are not recommended color choices.
Unless the kitchen remodeling includes a ceiling disco ball.
;)
eclare
Consumer Reports is your friend. Highly recommend a Bosch dishwasher, yes the same people who make auto parts. I think they make spark plugs.
ETA: what Steeplejack said. You don’t need these things tomorrow.
Steeplejack
@Mnemosyne:
The Sweet Home and its sister site, The Wirecutter, make my spidey sense tingle a little bit. Haven’t been able to find anything definite on the Google, but all too often I get a subliminal whiff that their reviews/recommendations are not completely disinterested. Mostly just a feeling, but . . .
The one specific example I can think of is that I bought their recommendation for disposable razors and they sucked. Not just “not quite as good, opinions differ.” I mean awful.
I would love to know what their funding/revenue model is.
Major Major Major Major
@NotMax: I always imagined his place with something like that TBH.
mvr
Much of the advice here is great. FWIW, my 1914 house had no real kitchen when we bought it and we literally built the kitchen ourselves. You likely don’t want to do that, but I can probably give you some perspective if needed. George Nash has a couple of house renovation books that I think have a nice sane attitude for people doing this for the first time. I’m on Amazon saying nice things about one of them and there is a more recent book that looks like an update also available. Basically, going slowly is better than getting too ambitious. As you live with a house you get to know what you like and what bugs you and that can help you figure out what you want to do.
Appliances are not that hard. The CR advice from people upthread is good. (My website has a good bit about my old house. But remember I’m a bit of a fanatic and not everyone has to be.)
Mike J
@srv:
Blenders aren’t that expensive.
Csbella
@Omnes Omnibus:
We bought a wolf stove 15 years ago when we remodeled and it’s made me a much better cook. By far. Love the electric convection oven and gas top with grill. Best house splurge ever!
Recently got a 4 door Samsung refrigerator from Costco that’s amazingly quiet.
Badtux
I’m a big advocate for simple and cheap over expensive and delicate. When I went looking for a washer and dryer, for example, I did not get the latest front loading stainless steel cool beans stuff. I got the simple old-school cheap Amana (Mexican-made Whirlpool) washer and dryer. They will last longer than I will, my mother is still using the same washer and dryer we bought for her in 1982. On the refrigerator and stove front, I also recommend going as simple as you can stand. The more complex it is, the more it breaks.
Dishwashers are a subjective thing. Bosch is great, of course, but I basically looked for the cheapest dishwasher that had the heated water feature, and ended up with a Frigidaire. It is pretty quiet when operating, it has a bit of a gurgle switch noise to it but not so I can hear it over the air conditioner purring in my office. Thing about going simple is that it not only breaks less, it’s also cheaper to fix when it does break. Replacing a simple mechanical defrost timer in a refrigerator costs around $20 if you do it yourself, $80 if you pay someone to do it. An electronic circuit board, on the other hand, can cost $250 or more — and that’s just for the part. So my refrigerator is just that — a refrigerator. It uses parts that have been common and standard for fifty years in refrigerators. It doesn’t dispense water. It doesn’t make ice (other than the old fashioned way with ice trays). It just keeps stuff cold.
I design complex computer widgets for a living. I can tell you which of them will be working twenty years from now. Hint: None of them. Meanwhile, my refrigerator that I bought five years ago will be working just fine twenty years from now, albeit it may have gone through a defrost timer or thermostat in that time period. While it’s possible to make electronic widgets that will last twenty years — the auto makers do it all the time — that doesn’t describe any consumer electronics. None. Zero. Nada. None of it. If you’re buying for the long term, keep it simple. That’s the only way to do it.
Juju
I’d recommend the really quiet Bosch dishwasher with the third shelf. I guess I’m in the minority in that I have an LG French door ice and filtered water through door, freezer on the bottom fridge and I love it. I have double self cleaning ovens from 1981 and I will never get rid of them. The kitchen has been renovated once and the renovation updated once and those ovens are still perfect. I like a smooth top cooktop. I have an Amana halogen from 1993 so I don’t know what to recommend. If you can do downdraft vent for stove, do that. It’s nice not to have the overhead vent to get in the way. Stainless steel is very expensive. I had to match the black ovens from 1981 and discovered that black appliances are cheaper. Have one unfinished butcher block surface. I have an island. I cut, roll pastry put pots and pans from the oven directly on it and it is still a nice looking countertop. Every kitchen should have at least one nearly indestructible surface and butcher block works well for that, and it’s kind to your knives. Have fun picking out you kitchen stuff, but Kitchenaid is not what it used to be. My sister got some Kitchenaid appliances and has regretted it almost daily.
Mai.naem.mobile
I got the Bosch that was recommended by CR. Very disappointed. Has basically never worked right. We had had a really good Kitchen aid top of the line for over 15 yrs. Also had a bad experience with an expensive Amanda stove. I have a friend who has a Sub Zero fridge and freezer set. Awesome but pricey(I think it was $8k .) If you have the space I would get a separate freezer and fridge only.i wouldn’t get the ice/water dispenser because it’s one more thing to break. Also in the fridge,i would get something with fewer shelves/sections because that just eats up more space in the fridge.
trollhattan
Did our kitchen in the last century (wha?) And the Dacor range and Miele dishwasher have been phenomenal. Fridges all seem shabby-we’ve been through two and probably are in the market for #3, so no recommendation there.
Are you electric or gas on the range? Electric kinda sucks but if you don’t have a choice, infrared seems like the way to go. Definitely convection for the oven regardless of fuel.
Don’t scrimp, replacing every four years stinks.
Mai.naem.mobile
Oh,also I personally hate stainless steel for appliances and cannot wait for this trend to be over.i want almond back. A ding on SS cannot be hidden at all. Unfortunately it’s impossible to find non SS decent quality appliances. Don’t get a black stove either.
trollhattan
@Mai.naem.mobile:
Can always get blank-front and do cabinet inserts. Newer SS generally has no-smudge finish, which helps with cleaning. Dents still suck.
Mai.naem.mobile
@Suzanne: I am looking at new countertops. I was told quartz changes color if you put something hot on it. I am also told the sealing is not a big deal. Jeezus. I am so confused about countertops because each salesperson tells you something different. Quartz,recycled glass,quartzite,granite??? BTW,CR says laminate is the best way to go on countertops as far as overall wear and cost. Shocked me.
Ann Marie
Definitely go to Consumer Reports. Also, several people mentioned Houzz. I go there mainly to dream, but there are a lot of practical articles on how to start planning remodels, what types of appliances to get, what basic measurements you need, etc. Make sure you get a good contractor. One of the previous owners of my condo did some renovations. They looked nice on the surface, but were not very well done and I have the plumbing and electrical bills to prove it.
Juju
@Mai.naem.mobile: I think CR does best with cars and televisions. I got their top rated vacuum cleaner and I hate it. I didn’t even realize they recommendedBosch dishwashers. I just liked the features and didn’t want one that sounded like a plane taking off. I’m sorry you’ve had trouble with yours. The one I have has been great. Fifteen years ago Kitchenaid was pretty good. The more recent large appliances aren’t what they used to be. My sister is ready to replace her’s after three years, and the plastic parts of the refrigerator are self destructing.
Juju
@Mai.naem.mobile: I like solid surface. They, such as Corian, make some that look very stone like and if you chip or scratch iit all you need is a 400 or 600 grit sandpaper. It also has a finish that looks like it’s a honed finish rather than a polished finish. If I ever win powerball I want a honed finished granite in light gray tones for my countertops. I’d also like two dishwashers.
jl
I thought Cole was going to try out a fire pit a few years ago. Didn’t work out?
joel hanes
Love everything about our not-new Bosch dishwasher except for the wheels on the lower rack. The rails in the door aren’t long enough, so it’s impossible for the rack to come out all the way without “derailing”, and it derails and goes askew half the time anyway because of the fiddly gap between door and inner rails. Terribly surprised. Frequently have to bend over, lift the entire rack and re-align, annoying when the rack is full.
It is quiet and does a great job.
tokyo expat
@Mnemosyne: If your goal is to get feedback on your work from a few judges, then go for it. Just be aware that you might get completely contradictory comments that leave you scratching your head as to how to improve your novel, and don’t let any negative feedback pull you down. That said, I hope they love it and that you win or place high.
Steeplejack
The one thing I don’t like about my brother’s über-quiet Bosch (I’m pretty sure) dishwasher is that it’s so quiet and sleek and built into the counter that you can’t tell if it’s fucking on or off. So when there is an entourage dinner over there at Sighthound Hall and everyone is being helpful, some person A always decides that it’s full and turns it on, only to be followed by person B (and possibly C) who wants to put in a last glass or dessert plate but doesn’t know it’s on. No big water disasters, just a nuisance as you get a blast of steam and the whole cycle has to get going again.
And there is probably some incredibly subtle signal that it has to let you know that it’s on, but I’ve never figured it out. The closest I’ve come is that there is a blue light on the control panel on the top edge of the door, but when it’s closed it’s under the edge of the counter and you can’t see it. But it’s probably not a problem when it’s just you and the usual household members who know the routine.
Steeplejack
@Mnemosyne:
I would be a little leery. I have some experience reading and evaluating grant proposals for a journalism foundation—applicants submit proposals for long-form stories that they want to do, along with examples of their previous work—and going through 40 or so of those and doing them justice is very hard and tiring. I shudder to think what it would be like to plow through potentially hundreds of 5,000-word manuscripts (of wildly varying quality), even at $35 a pop. I fear the result would be a short, minimalist critique with a tendency toward boilerplate.
I would say to hold out for that L.A. romance writers’ group that you are trying to get into.
inventor
I can recommend the Staber washing machine. Made in Ohio and has a great design that uses a fraction of the water and soap of other machines. In fact, they recommend you do the first loads without any soap as your clothes will have enough trapped in them.
inventor
here’s a link for Staber.
inventor
@inventor:
Bumper
I LOVE our Energy Star LG fridge with the French doors and freezer on bottom. We have the one with the door in door and it is fantastic for all our most commonly used items. We can even fit a gallon of milk in there so the kids don’t actually open the main part of the fridge. It has alarms if any of the doors are left open and a temperature display on the front. It is super easy to clean – all parts come out easily. Make sure you check for this no matter which fridge you choose.
Aleta
I had to get a new refrig and it came a week ago. It was the only one that fit in the old space, had an upper CR rating, and it was simple and low cost. GE. Didn’t want water or ice because I’d heard they can have mold problems. Delivery from the hometown store would take 2 weeks so we had to go with H Dep so we could stop living out of the cooler. It came from the factory, and the outgassing plastic has been horrible. Never had a reaction like this, and I’m actually keeping the cats and dog and myself out of the kitchen. I realize I should have bought a floor model or a Habitat for H one so that the outgassing would have finished. Have been using a fan,activated charcoal, zoltic rocks (activated charcoal supposedly captures the VOC toxic molecules) for about 4 days. I guess I will try begging H Dep to take it away for exchange toward a more expensive one, but I doubt they will do it, even though I reported the toxic smell and haven’t turned it on yet. My entire future has become dreary and ruined and all happiness evaporated.
planetpundit
I recently bought new appliances for the condo. I swear bt Bosch for dishwashers (so qquiet you can’t tell it’s running) and sanyo French door Ffridges.
Aleta
About Subzeros, people who have them around here have trouble getting a repairman who will fix them. So if your area of WV is rural, you might check that out before getting a fancy brand.
?BillinGlendaleCA
Since you’ve already fallen through the floor on the porch, you should check the physical integrity of the floor first. You don’t want to be moving large appliances and have them crashing though the floor. Figure out if you want any changes in the configuration in the kitchen first and finish those first. Measure the space and get an appliance slightly smaller, especially the fridge. I like an ice maker in the front, I drink soda and don’t want to keep opening the door. I had a part break and a little epoxy fixed that right up. Get a new refrigerator, they use much less energy that the older models. I’ve a few mentions advocating a Bosch washer, we went with a Kenmore and it was really quiet. A Consumer Reports subscription would probably be a great investment.
Jeff
Make sure it will fit through the door of the house. I’ve got an old home. The doors front and back are 30 inches wide. That limits what I can get.
DCrefugee
John, I bought all-new kitchen appliances in 2010. Got matching everything from LG in stainless, from Lowes, as I recall.
The LG range and built-in microwave have been problematic. A circuit board in the range failed right after the warranty expired, making the oven inop. Took two housecalls, a bunch of part-switching and $500-plus to get it resolved. Meanwhile, the MW beeps every now and then to say it, too, has a bad circuit board. Its most endearing failure mode is for the built-in exhaust fan to go to high speed when no one is near it. Resetting its circuit breaker is the only way to shut it off.
So I would not recommend LG ranges or microwaves (even though it seems all this stuff is made in the same factory in Mexico…).
That said, the LG French-door fridge and dishwasher have been bulletproof. The DW is quiet, reliable and does a good job. Only gripe about the fridge is the icemaker sometimes clogs up and requires attention, but that’s primarily because I live alone and don’t use it enough.
Lots of good advice upthread…though over the years I haven’t found Sears outlet pricing to be all that good…
Good luck!
Evgen
Having spent the past few years on induction prior to going back to gas with our new place I am going to add a few caveats that I haven’t seen mentioned yet. Obviously having appropriate pans is your first concern. Get a magnet and stick it to the bottom of each of your pans, if the magnet does not stick solid the pan is useless for an induction cooktop. Induction is great for low temp simmering but many units can’t put out a lot of BTUs unless you have one that uses a 220V dedicated circuit. Induction also does not heat as evenly as gas so there will be hotspots where the electromagnets are doing their work; usually not a problem for high quality pans, but very noticeable on cheap cookware or when the burner is on max output. Also know that an induction range that has numerical output settings (e. g. electronic or manual temp setting in numbers from 1 to X rather than a dial with full variability in setting the temp) is a range that has thrown away the fine-grained temp control induction offers so that they could save $3.50 on the internal electronics.
I will also swim against the tide here and say that I loved my Samsung fridge with French doors as the resulting internal width let me cool and entire sheet pan or air-dry a turkey with ease. We skipped the in-door ice/water unit in favor of just a cold water dispenser that was inside the fridge itself near the door hinge; this gave us back am entire door of storage space and it is not to much bother to pull out the freezer drawer for ice.
opiejeanne
@Ruckus: Sticking out my tongue?
If you click through the photos on that link you can see the state of the house when we bought it. What you can’t see is how bad it smelled.
Applejinx
@srv: I don’t know. Did he mention a mop?
opiejeanne
@Suzanne: Tile is fine for a countertop, but solid surface is easier and can be beautiful. Looking at black quartz (manmade) for the little kitchen in the cabin, with a bright yellow subway tile backsplash and a 20s/30s “liner”. The cabin is a tiny cottage built in 1923 and we are looking down the road to the time when we want to sell it.
Granite is mostly boring, I think, and you need to seal it periodically; there are much prettier stones. We used something called Superwhite (quartzite) for the countertops and soapstone for the island in our house. Soapstone is not as hard as granite but the maintenance is easy and it’s beautiful. The Superwhite looks a bit like marble but is very hard and durable, but it reacts badly to lemon juice so I either juice them on the soapstone or remember to wipe up any spills. Nothing but Magic Marker bothers the soapstone, and I only know that because the sample had something written on it and wouldn’t come off. I keep the pens away from it.
opiejeanne
@Steeplejack: My Bosch dishwasher throws a little spot of red light at the floor when it’s on. Also, you can add stuff to mine and it restarts itself when the door is closed. I try to only do that early in the cycle. It has a mildly annoying ding ding sound when it’s finished that we can hear over the tv upstairs.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Mary G: Noise was a big concern with my dad when they remodeled their kitchen – he’s got tinnitus and background noise can be excruciating for him. They’ve got a Bosch dishwasher and an LG refrigerator. Both are amazingly quiet.
Cheers,
Scott.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Steeplejack: My dad’s Bosch dishwasher has a little orange-ish light that shines on the floor when it is running. I don’t know if they all do.
It is creepy how quiet it is.
Cheers,
Scott.
Just One More Canuck
@eclare: When we were looking for a new dishwasher a year, we looked at Bosch – all the reviews we found they were noisy and were way overpriced. The load capacity was much smaller than similar models. We ended up with a whirlpool – still not as good as our old one which had died
Juju
@Steeplejack: there should be a red light dot on the floor on the right side as you face the dishwasher. Until I noticed the red dot on the floor, sometimes I had to open the Bosch to see if it was on.
satby
My son and daughter in law got the Bosch dishwasher too, and now I want one. Super quiet, especially compared to the horribly noisy old unit it replaced.
Quinerly
Love my 10 month old French door, 2 freezer drawer LG refrig. Researched the purchase to death. Two freezer drawers are fantastic. Oddly, Best Buy had the best prices. Sears was terribly overpriced. Normally a Lowe’s chick but Best Buy rocked.
seejanerun
Consumer Reports says that Bosch makes the most reliable dishwashers, and Samsung the least. I’m looking at a Bosch right now because reliability is my favorite thing.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@seejanerun: I generally like CR and have supported them for years, but (like anything) you have to look at the details. Bosch apparently has 59 dishwasher models – CR can’t test and rate all of them, and one generally can’t assume they’re all the same when it comes to reliability, etc.
Also, too often CR will rate something obviously in a lower product category above another simply based on price (e.g. in camera rankings). As long as you know what they’re doing and why, they’re a great resource. One can be mislead by simply assuming the product at the top of the ratings is “best” for one’s particular needs/wants.
Also, look at what happened with CR’s Tesla auto ratings. Apparently they were off the charts for a while (due to their fans loving them and telling everyone about them), but then people started actually reporting problems with the cars and, well, …
FWIW. :-)
Cheers,
Scott.
HinTN
@Doctor Science: We bought our Samsung fridge (get the pull out bottom freezer drawer and double doors, ffs) and Bosch dishwasher from Lowes. Love both. Use gas to cook so no help there.
artem1s
if you have a local Habitat for Humanity you might want to check and see if they have a resale store.
JR in WV
@The Dangerman:
John lives about an hour from Costco in Pittsburgh, and that would probably be worth the trip. Those stoves at Sweet Home are quite reasonable, an extra $250 on something you could use for 20 years is literally nothing. I also recommend visiting fancy kitchen stores in Pittsburgh, not necessarily to buy from but to see modern kitchens for cooks, in person.
Consumer Reports – I have subscribed for years. They do the same tests on every fridge, DO NOT GET French Doors on your fridge, they don’t close. We often open our freezer to find that it is full of frost, from not being closed the last 36 hours. Terrible.
If you get cold water through the door, it doesn’t take up 25% of your fridge. If you get ice through the door, it does take up 25% of your space. We have an ice maker which keep a bin full of ice, and we get all we need by dipping a glass or pitcher into the bin.
I second Euro dishwashers… We got 20 years out of an Asko – it too costs a little more, but over 20 years the cost of an exceptional dishwasher is nothing. They run so quiet you have to look at them to be sure it’s on. Same for Bosch. We were talked into replacing our Asko with a Kenmore Elite, which was good but only lasted 3 years, even though it was recommended by Consumer Reports. I fixed it myself by ordering parts online and watching the youtube video of how to fix what was broken. But then a $700 motor/pump broke. Fuck that.
Don’t sweat – find a local guy that does kitchens. Ask your neighbors who did their kitchens. Don’t do it yourself unless you’re willing to put all ALL your spare time into it for several months. Plus it’s hard on your shoulders. I got my shoulder replacement surgery after finishing my third kitchen. There were two auto wrecks in there too, neither one my fault, so maybe it wasn’t kitchen building that did it. Plus I’m old.
Take your time, appliances are the last thing you buy when you do a remodel… so you got time to research.
Drunkenhausfrau
Apropos of nothing: when first married, Mister Drunken and I bought Kenmore appliances. 22 years later, washer and dryer are still running perfectly. We upgraded kitchen 11 years ago, to nicer Kenmore fridge and stove. Perfect. We had to move out temporarily, for five years, and tenants abused the house. Know what are still running perfectly, no problems? All the Kenmore appliances. And the Silestone counters, which can’t be ruined.
While we were away, lived in a house with gourmet appliances. Had to replace the fridge $7k! Had to repair the stove $1700! Know what the repairmen told me? They never have to repair Kenmore or GE appliances. Also, Samsung and GE Profile ovens have more capacity than most gourmet ovens…
FWIW
KBS
I love our GE convection stove with induction burners! I wouldn’t ever want to go back to gas or regular electric.
Keith P.
@Steeplejack: I’ve got a 1 burner induction hot plate (to take over while my GE induction is broken). They’re a pretty inexpensive to check out how they work for you. Mine is a Duxtop..paid $50 on Amazon.
Currants
@Steeplejack: I’m late to this John, but Steeplejack is dead on right. Think through what you want for your kitchen/house before you dive in, and then do your research before buying. I highly recommend Sarah Susanka’s “Not so big house” series–designs for the way you really live. She has a remodeling one you might find at your library. I found her books incredibly useful and logical, and used them to think through, plan, layout and–with a good contractor who didn’t mind working for a woman–build an incredibly workable, albeit very small, kitchen. 10 years on and the only major thing I’d change is I’d have put it in a different room (I had just bought the house, and the kitchen needed to be done before it could be lived in). (Well, maybe the oven too, see below.)
And THEN, YES: Consumer Reports first. You’ll get yourself an education, so that whatever you’re looking for after that will be informed by what you’ve read about everything else. Maybe you want a high end Wolf/SubZero kitchen, or maybe you’ll find that the high end (in a functional/practical sense) ordinary appliances will be sufficient. I got a high end refrig (Liebherr) because it was the only one that would fit in the space I had. Similarly with the dishwasher: it’s an apartment sized Miele, and we can do the dishes for a whole dinner party in it. It’s really efficient. I have a knock-off brand of a high end range–and it’s great, but the oven sucks. That’s the only appliance I would change, and I hope to change it in the next few years because it’s next-to-impossible to do any real baking in an oven as erratic as this one.
JaneE
@CaseyL: I use cast iron on my induction. It says not to, but it works perfectly. The pans I have are far older than I am.
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
Owning a house is really expensive. Get used to it. I’m learning that first hand. By the end of the year I’ll probably have put close to $30,000 into my house and none if it is fun stuff like remodeling/upgrades. It’s all just keeping the place from being damaged by water from above (new roof – which I had put on before it started leaking and was a planned expense) or below (water in the basement plus a hidden slow plumbing leak that caused mold growth – that was the surprise). Also my radon levels are borderline take action. Wheee.
Ann Marie
@What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?: I feel your pain. I have had get a lot of the same sort of unappealing fixes done — replace windows (that were leaking heavily), replace a toilet (that simply didn’t flush), replace my heat pump (that was already at the end of its useful life when I bought the place, but no one told me), fix the leaking pipes from the old heat pump (before I realized I had to replace it), get the wiring fixed so I could use my Keurig and my microwave at the same time without tripping a circuit breaker . . . . Unless you buy a brand-new home, and sometimes even if you do, you have to expect a lot of annoying expenses.
tmflibrarian
@Steeplejack: The library definitely doesn’t get it for free or for $30. They are paying for that independent journalism.
But yeah, probably shouldn’t use the resources they have available, lest someone think libraries are actually needed in the community.
Steeplejack (phone)
@opiejeanne (and others):
Thanks for the tip on the Bosch’s red light. I will look for it.
The ding-ding is another thing. My brother’s Bosch doesn’t just ding once or a few times when it’s done. It keeps emitting a very subtle but audible ding every so often until you come congratulate it or turn it off or something. The house is open-plan, so it’s audible in the family room. I kept thinking a smoke alarm somewhere was wanting a battery.
To take the edge off the First World problems: my apartment has a mediocre but apparently long-lived Kenmore dishwasher that I rarely use because, living alone, I very rarely have a lot of dirty dishes.
sam
I’m gonna be somewhat useless on actual appliance recommendations, because I live in a NYC apartment with a tiny, tiny kitchen and so had to buy “apartment-sized” appliances – stuff that is built to be especially small to fit in tiny spaces (24″ wide stove, 18″ wide dishwasher, 24″ wide/counter-depth fridge). So I was somewhat…limited in the brands and styles that I could buy. But I will recommend two things that I did do:
Buy everything together, from the same retailer – I got a significant discount when i bought by buying everything together. It basically amounted to getting the dishwasher for almost free.
GET THE EXTENDED SERVICE WARRANTY if they have them. For many things, people will tell you that they are not worth the money, but for big ticket items, they are worth it. Nine years into my 10-year service warranty, I opened my fridge one day to find that it was just no longer cold. It was Christmas week. The service warranty people had someone there within two days, and it turned out to be some tiny little transformer/fuse thing that had just fried out. It was a quick fix, but it was totally free. And I didn’t have to run around trying to find a repairman during the holidays.
And definitely skip the icemaker. Even the ones inside the freezer are more trouble than they’re worth. my parents’ have one of those and it just keeps dying. The water line hookup that is needed also inevitably leaks and floods the kitchen.
Steeplejack (phone)
@tmflibrarian:
So what would a library pay for the Consumer Reports on-line subscription?
And, Christ, I wasn’t whizzing on libraries. Lighten up.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Currants:
Second the recommendation on the Not So Big House books. They are very useful, and they have changed the way I watch the HGTV shows. So much wasted space!
Uncle Cosmo
I had a kitchen remodel done a few years back. The most important thing I learned was that
1) Measure everything at least twice; the entry/exit doors, 3 times. Fun fact: A few years back I visited Fallingwater on a day trip from Baltimore. At a restaurant on the way back we ran into a guy who said he’d done HVAC work on the place & told us that when the water heater had to be replaced, Mr Famous Architect had had a unit installed that couldn’t fit through the doorways & had to be cut up to be removed…
2) Consider the floor covering. I presume the existing stuff is old. Plan to replace it with neutral color relatively stainproof stuff. I found some inexpensive vinyl tiling at Home Depot that looks like ceramic but is much easier to install (not to mention not as heavy). You can install this after any floor-sitting cabinets but it should be in place before the big appliances come in.
2) Form follows function. I.e., take a good look at your space, think hard about how you prep food for cooking, how you want to cook, how you prepare food that doesn’t need to be cooked, & most especially how you’re going to keep that bunch of bandits you’ve adopted from demolishing everything when your back’s turned. Not to mention the college kids…
E.g., you probably want cookware, mixing bowls, sink, spices, dry items (is there a pantry? do you have room to have one built in?) & the fridge in easy reach when you’re cooking. You probably want your storage containers conveniently accessible, since you’ll need to put leftovers away ASAP to keep the bandits at bay.
This goes n-tuple for the strength of the floors & the steps/halls on the way in. But after your crashthrough you probably know that.
3) Look at the shape of the kitchen. I have a small galley-style space; not many options there, but it allows prep to be done at the counter opposite the sink, within easy reach of the fridge, pantry & spices. If yours is larger & more square, consider installing an island opposite the sink as equivalent.
4) Don’t forget lighting! Do not use sharp instruments in the gloom, or you will lose a few joints. Make sure the prep area has sufficient light. You might need under-cabinet lighting; there are good LED options available.
Check how much natural light comes in. The less of this you get, the lighter you will want your walls, cabinets & countertops.
5) And don’t forget electrical outlets! Once you decide where you want the cabinets & appliances, evaluate the effect on the wiring. You may very well need to update it &/or modify your plans. I would be looking to update the whole house electrically anyway, it probably needs it.
Good luck!
sam
Oh, also, it’s geared toward apartments, but the Apartment Therapy website is a really good resource for small space decorating ideas and also reviews of appliances and such. Your house probably doesn’t qualify as an actual “small space” by their definitions, but it does tons of posts detailing both renovations and just general “this is a gorgeous space” house tours.
Shana
@Doctor Science: Very late to the thread, but I agree with your guidance.
A couple of things: we got a fridge with a filtered water dispenser inside the fridge and an icemaker in the freezer (bottom) section. Change the filter every 6 months or so, always cold water.
We got an extremely quiet dishwasher but ours is a KitchenAid. Stainless interior, almost can’t tell if it’s on even if you’re next to it.
Bosch double oven. Top oven has a quick preheat feature, very nice. Top oven also has multiple settings:
Bake, Broil, Roast, Warm, Proof, Pie, Dehydrate, Pizza, Convection Roast, Convection Broil, Convection Bake, Speed Convection and True Convection as well as Self Clean. I won’t pretend to have used them all yet, but lots are very handy.
Aleta
I’ve been looking at stand-alone induction burners. This CR article summarizes the considerations pretty well and has some recs (for the regular units).
Mai.naem.mobile
Going by the reviews here, think the Bosch dishwasher I got is a lemon. @Juju:
Also,i have to second the French door fridge doors not closing properly. We have a French door and Ive come back to it a bunch of times with the door slightly open. The fridge does,however,has the most efficient use of space unless you go with Subzero.
I’ve quite a bit of stuff from Habitat a lot in Phoenix over the past few years but FWIW I don’t find their appliances to be particularly well priced. Also remember with Habitat if you return something they give you store credit,not cash.
I agree with everybody who says live in the kitchen for a few months before doing anything. This is the second kitchen I’m doing for us and I have a much better idea of what I want and need.
BillCinSD
I would recommend checking out the blog articles by a fantastic chef and kitchen appliance maven named Meegun McCurdle (or something like that). She knows so much about kitchen stuff, I think she must have been born in the kitchen. In fact, I believe she is the someone who is in the kitchen with Dinah
Fnarf
Get a reconditioned stove. Definitely don’t get one with weird electronic controls that needs to be “programmed”. They all suck, and will go out on you. Meanwhile, there are plenty of old-fashioned knob-controlled stoves that are 50, 60, even 90 years old that work perfectly. Ditto for washer/dryer. Do the opposite of this advice for the fridge, and only get the water+ice thing on the door if you enjoy watching your friends trying to get ice out of it even though it stopped working a month after you bought it — because it will.
Juju
@Mai.naem.mobile: I’ve never had a problem with the French doors. I have a 2007 LG and the doors close in either direction, and if for some reason there is a door ajar the door alarm will sound. I love the French door style because you can shift shelves and fit large things inside. I can fit full sized baking sheets in there with no problem, and that comes in handy when rolling pastry that needs to be chilled after rolling such as croissants, puff pastry, bear claws and whatnot. When my side by side finally died I couldn’t get rid of it fast enough. I’ve heard that LGs made from 2009-2012 have freezer issues, but I apparently missed tthat era and it has since been solved. I guess I’ve been lucky with the doors. What brand is your French door refrigerator?
Steeplejack (phone)
@BillCinSD:
LOL. Late but worth the wait.
Mai.naem.mobile
@Juju: it’s a Kenmore. It’s a nice fridge and the door problem is that you have to make sure you have closed the door. If you grab something and let the doors swing back it may not close completely. I’ve never had that kind of issue with a fridge before.
Betsy
@pseudonymous in nc: i got fridge, stove, and washer-dryer for a total of $900 by going to the Habitat for Humanity ReStore (fridge, stove for $200 each) and sending a “wanted” email to a couple of neighborhood listservs (found a hardly-used washer and dryer that someone was getting rid of because of a long distance move, couple hundred each.)
Habitat is bad about backing up their appliances. First fridge didn’t work at all and i had to contact the regional manager to get them to agree to retrieve it (after all, they had a company truck, I didn’t) and swap it out for another that worked. But, cheap. The stove is GE low-end model but keeps the correct overn temp and I love it. The fridge is a side-by-side GE, simple but commodious, love it too.
Don’t EVER get one of those French doors -plus- freezer drawer fridges. Having to open both doors all the time will drive you bonkers, especially when you have to pull out the meat or produce trays.
Original Lee
@Mai.naem.mobile: Sadly, you did get a lemon dishwasher. CR says that the average lifespan of a dishwasher is three years nowadays because only about 3 different companies make them for the U.S. market. So the extended service warranty is essential. We have a 14-year-old Whirlpool dishwasher, the third one of that model – the first two died within a year each, but we got free replacements, and just a few months ago we got the heating element and water pump replaced for free in dishwasher #3 for free. We have decided that we will get a Bosch stainless steel-lined dishwasher should we ever have to get a new one.
The French door refrigerator thing – we have an LG monster fridge, and you MUST close the doors one at a time for them to both be closed. Most people use their hands to smush the doors closed simultaneously, and it doesn’t work because it was designed for sequential closure. Only flaw we have found with it.
BruceJ
@Doctor Science: I’ll second the Bosch dishwasher. We picked one up at Lowes about 4 years ago and it’s performed well since. Really quiet, although that may have been in comparison to our old one which was about 400 years old and apparently cleaned dishes by slamming them against the inside, to judge from the noises it made :-)
Badtux
Regarding Corian countertops, don’t. It melts if you accidentally put a hot pot on it. It’s basically just laminate, except thicker. It also has a tendency to crack if subjected to large temperature differences, though that’s really more a problem with Corian bathroom vanities with cast-in lavatory bowls, which tend to crack around the drain pipe when you run hot water into them. I admit a fondness for tile, but it requires too much skilled labor for most places nowadays. One interesting alternative is concrete. Yes, concrete. Made with a fine sand and colored and sealed, it looks a lot like stone, but because it can be poured in place it’s much less labor to manufacture and install compared to most alternatives, and since it is poured in place, it can be poured in shapes that are difficult with materials that must be carved or cut. Google “concrete countertop” for some interesting ideas in that respect.
sam
@Badtux: on the countertop thing, I would also advise against marble. A lot of people like the way marble looks, only to discover that marble is an incredibly “soft” stone, and basically gets damaged if you look at it funny.
I went with granite, which is harder, but apparently may have its own issues depending on where it was quarried (radiation?).