Betty Cracker’s right — that would be a great name for a band:
… “You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the ‘basket of deplorables’. Right?” Clinton said to applause and laughter from the crowd of supporters at an LGBT for Hillary fundraiser where Barbra Streisand performed. “The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic — you name it.”
Clinton then noted, as she has several times in the past, that Trump has “given voice” to white supremacist and anti-Semitic voices on the Internet.
“He tweets and retweets their offensive hateful mean-spirited rhetoric,” Clinton said. “Now, some of those folks — they are irredeemable, but thankfully they are not America.”
Clinton then transitioned to a more positive message, calling for empathy for the “other half” of Trump’s supporters who feel left behind by the government and the economy.
“That other basket of people are people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they’re just desperate for change,” Clinton said. “It doesn’t really even matter where it comes from. They don’t buy everything he says, but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different.
“They won’t wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they’re in a dead end,” Clinton said. “Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well.”…
The Trump campaign and its enablers promptly leapt for their mic-equipped fainting couches, appalled at the very idea that an American politician might reject the support of people like this:
… In a windowless room in a swanky hotel half a block from the White House on Friday afternoon, three of the most visible leaders of the Alt-Right movement held a two-hour press conference to discuss their affection for Donald Trump and their hopes for a white homeland. The white supremacist Alt-Right movement has grown over the last eight years or so, incubated in racist forums like StormFront and meme-loving corners of the internet like 4chan and 8chan. Its members generally share a disdain for political correctness, feminism, zionism, Jews in general, immigration (especially Hispanic and Muslim immigration), and anyone who criticizes them for holding these views.
The three Alt-Right leaders who gathered in D.C. this afternoon made two things very clear: They think white people are genetically predisposed to be more moral and intelligent than black people, and they do not want to share their envisioned utopian ethno-state with folks of the Jewish persuasion. There’s some disagreement in the Alt-Right on what they refer to as “the Jewish question.” But the big take-away was that Jews are suspicious.
Jared Taylor, who founded the white supremacist American Renaissance site, explained the Alt-Right as predicated entirely on the belief that some races are inherently superior to others—the movement, he said, is “in unanimity” in rejecting “the idea that the races are basically equivalent and interchangeable.” There are genetic differences in race that make some races more ethical and intelligent than others, he said. That’s what the Alt Right is all about…
***********
Apart from the tragicomical version of the Great Sorting now taking place, what’s on the agenda today?
OzarkHillbilly
Enjoying the weather. Was sitting outside earlier, temps in the upper 60s with a steady northerly breeze. The cold front is here. Supposed to be stormy this morn (flash flood watches/warnings up all over) but then clearing with a high around 76. Hopefully my son can even make it out to take care of a few things I can’t just now.
Karmus
Agenda is recycling electronics. It’s The Day for the mobile collection center.
Things are getting creepy. Sure hope the voters beat back these “alt-right” xenophobes. I used to wonder how 1930s Germany could happen. That would be followed by “no way that could happen here… right?” Right.
Did I Godwin thread? So sorry.
raven
@OzarkHillbilly: I hear you. I saw the doc Thursday and he said, you are doing fine now get a calendar and mark down 6 weeks from your surgery. The painters came yesterday and moved all the furniture out of the living room and I just went up stairs and closed the door and let the boss lady direct them. I guess this is what is going to happen to us eventually but, damn, not yet!
raven
Agenda is football. The Dawgs play a bunny at noon but the Hokies play UT at Bristol Motor Speedway tonight. 150,000 peeps!
Luthe
Today is for Adulting. I am talking to my insurance agent about supplemental hospital coverage, a woman at the bank about an IRA, and voluntarily going to the dentist for fillings.
I deserve a medal and *two* cookies.
raven
@Luthe: My hernia surgery was “voluntary” in the sense that I had no symptoms. They convinced me I needed to have them fixed before I got into trouble!
Brachiator
The sad thing is that there will be pundits and reporters who will cluck, “Hillary, why do you have to be so negative? We just want to hear about policy, but you make us clutch our pearls and condemn you for negative, nasty campaigning. Why are you calling Trump a racist? Can we talk about your emails?”
The stupid press want to focus solely on the candidates, and not consider the electorate, the voters Trump is appealing to, or to his clear, obvious, and continuing rooting into the sewers and fetid corners of nutcase and bigoted America for ideas and political advisors. And it is clear that he is comfortable traveling in this space.
But you have to wonder how someone like GOP contributor Sheldon Adelson feels about the alt right links to anti-Semitism, even this neo “yeah, Jews are smart, but we still hate them” stuff.
And it is just weird how Trump insists that he loves everybody (except non vetted Muslims and illegal immigrants) and will help Latinos and blacks as well as “real Americans.”
Paul Ryan and the GOP leadership foolishly believe that they will be able to contain, control or manipulate Trump for their own purposes. Does Trump believe that he will be able to control his racist advisors or that part of his base that is yearning for a restoration of a purely white supremacist America?
ETA. What’s on the agenda? Nothing but errands and work today.
OzarkHillbilly
@raven: I am the worst patient in the world, I never do what I’m told.
rikyrah
Good Morning ?, Everyone ?
Off to swim ?and run errands. ?
Luthe
@raven: I can see/feel the teeth in question need work, so I called the dentist for the appointment without outside prompting. Any additional work might be “voluntary”, though.
rikyrah
@Luthe:
After all that responsible stuff.. treat yourself to something fun.
Raven
@OzarkHillbilly: I guess with serious injuries I have had I’ve become a believer in proper rehab. On the other hand, My bride was able to help me for about one day before she threw her hands up.
Raven
@Luthe: head em off at da pass!
R-Jud
A friend of mine is pulling in the tug of war world championships (yes, that’s a thing), so I’ll be watching that live in a few minutes. Then the Bean and I are off to a local big-screen showing of E.T.
NorthLeft12
@Brachiator: Agree with you 100%. Sec. Clinton is running a very adult campaign. She is pointing out hard truths and is trying to respond constructively to issues of the day with clear and detailed policies.
Not everyone will like or agree with her, but she is clearly defining what a Clinton Presidency will look like. A plague on all those incompetent and mean spirited media mouth pieces who can’t get by their personal animus for her to report the facts clearly.
This is not only media malpractice, it is treasonous.
amk
Even bbc is reaching for the fainting couch. Never mind their own correspondents were stalked and hounded by trump’s racist nutjobs.
satby
Good morning all! For my day today, we’re going back to trash out the little bit leftover junk from my move, and then the serious business of really unpacking begins. Monday I start my new job and they want me to go full time for the first two weeks to train.
I can’t find all my clothes, or any of my soap labels for my soap, or my laptop power cord. I’m so glad this is the last day of any moving and that I will never move a household like this again.
satby
@OzarkHillbilly: I missed the update, you saw the doc? Which was it: rotator cuff or biceps tendon? How are you doing?
@raven: Good to hear you’re doing well!
satby
@Luthe: The older I get, the more tired of adulting I am!
Hunter
“There are genetic differences in race that make some races more ethical and intelligent than others, he said. That’s what the Alt Right is all about…”
Umm — in point of fact, the genetic difference between races is too small to measure. http://www.nytimes.com/2000/08/22/science/do-races-differ-not-really-genes-show.html?pagewanted=all
” As it turns out, scientists say, the human species is so evolutionarily young, and its migratory patterns so wide, restless and rococo, that it has simply not had a chance to divide itself into separate biological groups or ”races” in any but the most superficial ways.
”Race is a social concept, not a scientific one,” said Dr. J. Craig Venter, head of the Celera Genomics Corporation in Rockville, Md. ”We all evolved in the last 100,000 years from the same small number of tribes that migrated out of Africa and colonized the world.” “
OzarkHillbilly
@satby: I saw the Doc on Wed, got the MRI that afternoon, and… Don’t know the results. I’ll find out Monday. For now, I am taking the lack of report as meaning it’s not as bad as I originally feared and not that my problem slipped thru the cracks.
Cacti
Unforced error by Hillary.
The Trump-fluffing media bobbleheads are going to be all over this like flies on a turd. And just when Trump was starting to get some bad press for his Putin worship and AG bribing.
satby
@OzarkHillbilly: Hoping for that too.
MattF
1) Order a new iPhone. My current (a 5S) is falling apart, in the sense that the glass plate on the front is halfway detatched. Not good. My target is a jetblack 7S with 128GB. Need the memory for more music.
2) Try again to register for online access to my insurance policies. Tried this morning, and got a “We are really genuinely sad to discover that we just can’t do that right now. Call customer service, pretty please, ha ha.” response. Need to do that if I’m going to shift to paperless billing for those accounts.
3) Continue to wonder WTF happened to one of last month’s credit card bills. Never got it. Fortunately managed to discover the problem before the payment was officially late, so I may escape undamaged.
JPL
@Cacti: I agree. The alt-right are taking over the gop, but the way she phrased it, was bad.
JMG
The one thing the media will never do is point out unpleasant facts about their audience. White racism is the ultimate no-go. It has never been brought up in the eight years Obama’s been President despite being an obvious part of the virulent opposition to his rather moderate, temperate self.
Clinton told the truth. In this election, that’s a losing play.
OzarkHillbilly
@Cacti:
Telling the truth is an unforced error? Then we need a hell of a lot more unforced errors. Trump is a racist POS, The people voting for him are either racist POS too, or OK with voting for one. Either way, fuck ’em.
Shalimar
@Cacti: Hillary is choosing to talk about this. The campaign had to realize there would be backlash, so I’m hoping they will use this as an opportunity to point out how awful some of Trump’s followers are (led by Bannon, who he hired) and basically say “are you sure all of you decent Trump supporters want to be identified with these assholes?”
amk
@JMG:
Just like that?
Amir Khalid
@satby:
Touch wood.
amk
@Shalimar: Exactly. Slapping the trump curious on their head. I am glad she went there instead of the normal pu$$yfooting we see from the dems.
MattF
@Shalimar: I agree. Lots of people on the margin, and they will make the difference between a narrow win and a big win for Hilz.
?BillinGlendaleCA
Is that a rocket in your parking lot, or are you just happy to see me?
Today, football; tomorrow I’m planning an adventure to San Pedro(Drum Barracks, Banning house, Korean Friendship Bell, USS Iowa…).
Yesterday was Watts Towers, the Beach Boys monument, and Long Beach.
amk
pu$$yfooting gets a mod?
amk
@Shalimar:
This. Slapping the trump curious on their head. I am glad she went there instead of the normal pu$$yfooting we see from the dems.
MattF
@amk: Not surprised. I made a reference to some catty lyrics in Gillian Welsh “The Way That It Goes” and went into moderation. So, no felines.
Amir Khalid
@amk:
Alas, yes. And it doesn’t even allow for context. I once used the same word to refer to my cat and got moderatered.
JPL
Matt McDermott twitter feed
OzarkHillbilly
@JPL: Pretty much.
Matt McIrvin
@amk: You don’t say the fraction of bigots in the other camp is as high as 50%. Even though, in reality, that’s probably low. You say there’s this tiny core of bigots and the rest are salt of the earth who need to wake up and realize who they’re dealing with.
FEMA Camp Counselor
She had a speech a few week ago calling these same people out and now the(let’s be honest here, mostly white) media wants to call her out for it? Oh they can fuck right off.
It’s like this guy says. People will remember who stood up to Trump, just like people will remember who stood up to segregation, McCarthyism, and other horrors of our history. There is no room for neutrality here.
Amir Khalid
In the Manchester Premier League derby, United are down at home 0-2 to City thanks to mistakes by defender Daley Blind. This is something of a grudge match for new United manager Jose Mourinho, who is not best of friends with new City manager Pep Guardiola. Jose won’t be pleased that City are out-thinking and out-playing United all over the park.
ETA: And as soon as I post, Zlatan Ibrahimovic pulls one back for United.
Immanentize
Hello, All! Agendts is clean out the basement if it rains, clean up the garden and burnt up yard if it doesn’t.
Meanwhile, Trump called my home region, upstate New York, “The most depressing place in the country.” He may have meant “depressed,” but way to win votes, Maroon!
Amir Khalid
@Immanentize:
i’ve been yo upstate New York. It looks lovely in the fall.
Shalimar
Since the thread was already Godwined from the 2nd comment, I will go ahead and give my theory that people who support Trump are just like Hitler voters in 1932. Most people didn’t believe the Nazis were going to murder millions of people. He promised to take care of the Jewish problem, and they saw a few hundred or thousand people shipped out of their community on a train. They didn’t know to where and didn’t care. Everyone assumed prison and work camps. It was only halfway through the war that Allied intelligence started getting reports about the true scope of the slaughter.
Trump promises to ship off a few million Mexicans and also get rid of all the Muslims, and his supporters cheer. Trump supporters don’t care where the others go, as long as they don’t live in the US anymore. Even the non-violent Trump supporters are still white supremacists. The ones Hillary is calling out are the worst, those who would still cheer if Trump announced death camps to save money on deportations.
Immanentize
@OzarkHillbilly: I am glad you at least made it into the system! I always assume that if they are ignoring me after testing me, things can’t be too bad. I had a colonoscopy a few years back and the next day the doc was on the phone sending me to a surgeon. I really don’t want to hear much from the doc after a test after that experience….
TK
David Brooks in his regular weekly spot with E.J. Dionne on NPR yesterday said that Hillary and Trump were “equally bad” at the CIC Forum because Hillary was “so ungracious.” I kid you not my friends. This guy thinks being ungracious (in his opinion) is equivalent to someone supporting war crimes (stealing the oil).
Related, NPR is going completely down the tubes this election.
NorthLeft12
Just had a brainstorm here……why doesn’t Hillary campaign on rounding up and deporting the basket of deplorables? That would appeal to those people that seem to be fired up about rounding up and deporting [fill in blank]s.
And of course, thanks to Hillary’s ballot box rigging she will have full knowledge of who voted for Trump and why, so identifying them will be quite easy.
I’m sure Russia would be happy to take these people as they would pass any entrance test that Putin would impose.
MattF
@TK: It’s just a mistake to expect very much from Brooks. He’s the very model of a modern fellow-traveller.
Jack the Second
I’m trying to think of a reason this could be, what could have happened over the last eight years or so… damn, drawing a blank.
debbie
@satby:
Do you like your new neighborhood?
Immanentize
@Amir Khalid: It is particularly lovely in the fall. But the rest of the year ain’t bad either but for rain and snow. The major industries have all pulled out — my home town, Binghamton lost the Shoe industry (Endicott Johnson), film industry (GAF), and tech manufacturing (IBM). It was really quite devastating. A lot of people lost their jobs toward the end of careers so there is a very fraying older, generation that never recovered. But that area has finally figured out it is a University town and it is bouncing back with the classic modern combination of start-ups, brew pubs and nursing homes
OzarkHillbilly
@Matt McIrvin:
You actually think these people don’t know exactly who and what they are? Trust me, they know. It’s about damn time we stop playing patty cake with them.
Schlemazel
@Hunter:
As if science and reality could affect these little nazis.
debbie
@Immanentize:
I used to drive the Thruway to get to Ohio and back. The land is breathtaking, but if all of the towns are like Cortland, NY at 3am, I might use the word “depressing.: ;-)
Schlemazel
@raven:
Have done the recovery thing a dozen times I think you have to listen very carefully to your body. It will tell you when you have done enough but it won’t be very loud until you have done too much. Take it easy, it sounds like you are, and you’ll do fine.
Immanentize
@debbie: I hear you! Pleasing architecture and rational placement of buildings was never a strong suit in the region.
But I really miss canoeing in the Adirondacks during the summers and race-sailing on the Finger Lakes.
bystander
Clinton’s remarks are being illogically compared to Rmoney’s 47% comments. Other than Chuck Toad and Andrea Greenspan, Clinton’s comments were aimed at the people who will never vote for her or anyone remotely like her. Rmoney pissed off half the entire electorate. But the Toads and the Greenspans will all have their pearls clutched.
TK
@MattF: You know, I thought my expectations for him were sufficiently low going in. But yesterday was a new standard of embracing the ‘both sides do it’ false equivalence bull shit.
OzarkHillbilly
@Schlemazel: I listen to my body far more than I ever would any Doc, a Doc is good for a baseline analysis of what to expect, but every body is different.
MattF
And, for a specific example, Bruce Bartlett is usually cool-to-lukewarm about Hilz, but he loves it when she nails the fascists.
Peale
@TK: brooks, like a lot of white people, would probably have voted democrat in the 1940s, but the Republicans somehow lured him away with promises of free stuff.
JPL
@bystander: Hillary has an opportunity to now define the alt-right. Trump has 40 percent of the voters and she’s correct by stating that half of those are members of the alt-right who support a thug like Putin.
Schlemazel
I believe that people form a bell curve on most issues. If you take race for instance I think you will find a small number of these white assholes on the left side and a small number of people who actively work for equality on the right with the greatest majority falling about half way between in the land of ‘I don’t really care because it does not affect my day to day life’. (Speaking mostly of white folks here, racism easily goes unnoticed in their lives). Events tip the curve one way or the other and right now the economic issues are tipping it heavily to the left because race becomes an easy answer to very difficult questions. We are in a very unhealthy place right now and even when Clinton wins I don’t expect things to get much better any time soon because the problems we face require more than any President can do.
Oldgold
Gee, Hillary has stands accused of insulting racists sexists and malicious bigots.
Good.
OzarkHillbilly
Tom Levenson makes it to the pages of the Guardian: The Hunt for Vulcan by Thomas Levenson review – Newton, Einstein and the invisible planet
Schlemazel
@OzarkHillbilly:
Exactly! The danger is rushing either because you felt good at the time or out of frustration for the length of recovery. I’ve done both. I think doctors pad a little because they expect noncompliance
hope you get good news Monday
Matt McIrvin
@OzarkHillbilly: Maybe so, maybe so. I don’t know, man. I mean, I’ve been posting blog comments that are basically the same thing Hillary just said and I wondered if they were even appropriate things for me to say.
But for a major-party candidate to just come out and say, if you do the math, that somewhere in the ballpark of 30 to 70 million Americans are disgusting straight-up bigots… well, it’s completely fucking true, it’s probably an understatement actually, but can you actually say that and win a presidential election? I guess we’re going to find out.
TK
The Villagers are going to have a conniption about Hillary stating the obvious about these deplorables aren’t they? It’ll probably drive at least 3-5 days of media coverage for them.
PPCLI
@Peale: Excellent line – I’m going to use it.
(But I urge you not to normalize the Republican use of “Democrat” for “Democratic”. People “vote Democratic”. It’s important to keep using language correctly, if only because a) You don’t want to let Republicans get away with their sleazy language-manipulation tricks. b) It is such a time-saver to be able to treat the use of “vote Democrat”/”Democrat Party”/”Democrat Plantation”/… as a sure sign that the speaker is a dittohead fool whose opinion is worthless and can safely be ignored c) It’s a useful way to spot obvious fakes — for example the made-up quotes regularly attributed to Hillary in viral twitter comments etc. in which the use of “Democrat voters” or “Democrat Party” (etc.) gives the game away. )
Frankensteinbeck
Jesus. I hope I’m wrong, but I expect the media to go into a universal shit fit about this, and never recover. Their most sacred cow is that nothing whites do is motivated by racism.
On the other hand, the media are fuckwits already trying to sink her, and the electorate themselves may go ‘Thank goodness someone will acknowledge what’s going on.’ I know I’ve felt for a long time that giving cover to racists got us here.
raven
@?BillinGlendaleCA: My sis lives in Hawthorne and went to school with a couple of BB’s.
debbie
@Matt McIrvin:
I agree. It didn’t need saying. Just look at how the Right has “forgotten” Obama’s bitter, gun-clinging Whites statement.
JPL
@Frankensteinbeck: So far, they are doing both sides. Trump said Hillary could shoot someone and not be charged. She will appear on CNN tomorrow at 8:30 to discuss the 9/11 attacks.
OzarkHillbilly
@Matt McIrvin: Speaking truth to people who don’t want to hear it is always uncomfortable, it is at it’s worst when the truth we speak is directed at ourselves. I have gotten in trouble for speaking the truth on many occasions and was never sorry for it. If it made people uncomfortable, maybe they needed to be made uncomfortable. As to the math, I will not venture any numbers, but after 8 years of Obama I feel it is safe to say that a majority of Americans, while carrying all the biases that are natural to the human condition, are not at their core “racist”. But it is long past time to call them out for their tolerance of racism (and misogyny and xenophobia, etc)
Yes, we are. And I hope this country really is what I want it to be.
Now, it is time for me to go, Y’all play nice now, Y’heah?
bemused
The fowl are in a fall feeding frenzy. Our in-law’s field is loaded with geese feasting on a section of unharvested oats. Partridges have appeared in our yard again foraging.
Frankensteinbeck
I would really like to hear from our minority, especially black and Hispanic, commenters on this. I don’t know what it’s like to be on the receiving end of racism, (beyond tiny experiences growing up Jewish) but it seems like what Hillary is saying is the minimum courtesy action of admitting there’s a problem.
different-church-lady
I know what she’s trying to do here, but I don’t agree. This election is going to reveal exactly what percentage of the country is racist. There are no subcategories in the Trump electorate.
Wapiti
@Schlemazel: I’d agree with your idea of a curve/continuum. I think there might be a small percentage of hard core racists. But it could actually be a million people.
I think Clinton’s comment, like people said above, was good from the point of making a stand, saying what needs to be said, and leading. I think that every one percent she persuades not to vote for Donald; not to go to the polls is good, especially if it depresses the vote for down-ballot racists and enablers.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@raven: They tore down their childhood home to put in the Century Freeway(105, it’s officially the Glen Anderson Freeway, nobody calls it that); so they put a monument near where the house was.
ETA: The SpaceX rocket that I linked to above was a surprise.
PPCLI
And predictably butthurt Republicans are horrified at “name-calling”. No doubt Kellyanne Conway will be making the rounds, as she did after the alt-right speech, making this complaint. I was amazed (though not all that amazed) that not one single talking head mentioned that her boss cannot stop using:
Crooked Hillary
Lyin’ Hillary
Lyin’ Ted Cruz
Little Marco
Low Energy Jeb
Pocahontas
Goofy Elizabeth Warren
Crazy Bernie
Truly Weird Rand Paul
(etc.)
And not just as a one-off remark, but constantly. Every news team should make that list (plus any more I’ve forgotten) into a visual that they can display as needed, so when Conway or whoever complains about name-calling, they can just have it displayed and ask her why she doesn’t regard those names as “name calling”. Please, TV people, this isn’t rocket science.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@PPCLI: Vote Democrat is fine, where you end up in RWNJ territory is “Democrat Party”; it’s the Democratic Party.
Matt McIrvin
@debbie: Oh, it needed saying. But it was also potentially fatal to say.
Maybe she’s just bringing down a crisis that was unavoidable anyway.
raven
@?BillinGlendaleCA: She’s on 119th.
raven
@Matt McIrvin: Fuck it, go for the throat. It will change ZERO minds.
Matt McIrvin
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I think that rocket is the very first stage they managed to land.
SpaceX is going through some hard times right now; it sounds as if the explosion that happened recently was a genuinely unexpected accident (it happened during fueling, not when they actually fired the rocket) and much harder to troubleshoot than the failures they’ve had in the past. They probably need the morale boost.
raven
@raven: 121st
amk
digby
Schlemazel
@Wapiti:
agreed about Clinton’s comments. This needs to be said and people who are more toward the right side need to be aware of what they are supporting.
Jeffro
@bystander:
Yes – very illogically. Romney was unwisely splitting the entire electorate, just as you say. Clinton is splitting the GOP (“you’re SURE you want to be associated with the alt-Right and what they stand for?”) and in a way, reinforcing the inclusive message she’s been putting out to Dems and Inds all along. It’s great politics but they’re really going to have to talk slowly/avoid big words while trying to explain it to mainstream talking heads.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Matt McIrvin: From what I was reading online, I think you’re correct that it’s the first stage that they landed. You should look back at the old footage of the US Government’s first attempts at rocketry in the late 50’s. Lots of Big Booms!
?BillinGlendaleCA
@raven: The breeder who sold us our first cocker was near there, west side of the 405 though.
rikyrah
@Frankensteinbeck:
Since you asked…
As a Black person, I am glad Hillary did her speech a few weeks ago as well as what she did yesterday.
While I don’t see the difference between dogwhistles and what Ferret Head has been saying. .
There IS a fundamental difference in keeping the dregs on the outskirts, and legitimizing them . Da phuq is “Alt-right?”
Call them for what they are:
WHITE SUPREMACISTS
Soledad O’Brien was correct in her lambasting her former employer.
Some people here Don seem to take the entire scope of what Ferret Head has been saying to heart.
Maybe, because you are White, you don’t think that what he says can come to pass.
As a Black person, there is nothing in the history of America that makes me NOT take the man at his word.
You say…but, he hasn’t said that stuff to Blacks that he has said to Latinos and Muslims.
Once again I say, that having knowledge of the history of America, I know that anything that begins with other minority communities, will ultimately wind up to Black folks.
So, better to cut that shyt off at the path.
Too many White people don’t believe that Ferret Head is serious. Hillary is talking to them:YES, HE IS.
?BillinGlendaleCA
Two 360 degree photos from yesterday:
Watts Towers,
Long Beach.
Steeplejack (phone)
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
That monument looks like a bus stop. Fancy, though.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Steeplejack (phone): Heh, it does; though most of our bus stops aren’t quite that fancy(even in Beverly Hills).
Frankensteinbeck
@rikyrah:
Thank you.
Bobby Thomson
@Matt McIrvin: yeah, this. This is the kind of thing that could give Trump 80% of the white vote. White people are thin skinned babies.
gogol's wife
@rikyrah:
I am so on edge, I feel the country is in very grave danger. The praise of Putin is appalling. This must be what it felt like in Germany in the 1930s. Call me Godwin, I don’t care.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Bobby Thomson:
No.
Miss Bianca
@Luthe: Still recovering from a crown replacement on Wednesday. Damn, had I just forgotten how much getting your teeth drilled just sucks? Or does it just suck that much more now that I’m older?
Also on the agenda is shopping and heading up the canyon for some horse play. Literal horse play, not figurative, I hasten to point out, tho’ that would be rather nice as well.
Bobby Thomson
@Shalimar: Godwin doesn’t apply and isn’t normative anyway. The original post was about Nazis.
Miss Bianca
@JPL: You know what? I have no problem at this point with calling a spade a bloody shovel. These people are appalling, and a “basket of deplorables” is actually a far milder epithet than they deserve. Are you forgetting, or just ignoring, the inconvenient fact that *anything* Clinton says is an “unforced error”, since the media will not, cannot allow her ever to be right on any topic whatsoever? I think she might as well go for broke.
Corner Stone
HRC should triple down on it and say, “Steve Bannon? He’s the campaign CEO! He won’t disavow David Duke’s support? If that is not deplorable then what won’t you excuse?”
bystander
@Jeffro: I had to turn off MSNBC because of the idiocies being spun today. They tried desperately the day after the CIC b/s to equate Trump’s avowed love of Pootie Poot to Clinton’s remark about never committing armed forces on the ground in Iraq or Syria. One makes the most un-American remark you can make and the other one expressed what most Americans want to hear about nationbuilding in the ME, so it is an unavoidable conclusion that both are the same.
PPCLI
@amk: Digby’s tweet (and especially with the accompanying visual) is exceptional. Though I’m no expert on this, I would think that there should be pushback emphasizing the kind of stuff that is not merely tolerated but even encouraged. Trump encouraging people to beat the crap out of protesters and saying he’ll pay the lawyers fees. Crowds chanting “Hang that bitch”, as the New Republic reported (see article by Jared Yates Sexton, July 6, 2016). High officials in Trump’s New York and New Hampshire operations calling for Hillary’s execution and still remaining in the Campaign. Trump suggesting that Hillary murdered Vince Foster, to the delight of his crowd, and never apologizing or explicitly renouncing the claim.
Push back on this — shine a light on it.
I am tired of walking through parking lots with my fourteen year old daughter and having her point out to me pickup trucks festooned with “Trump that Bitch” / “Hilary Sucks but Not Like Monica” / LIfe’s a Bitch, Don’t Elect One” / “Two Fat Thighs, Two Small Breasts, Left Wing” / “This Bitch Is Batshit Crazy”/ etc.
If the Trump people are going to encourage, embrace and promote this, throwing this group red meat at their rallies, etc., they have to own it.
Corner Stone
@rikyrah: I hate it when reporters say “alt right”. Kasie Hunt on MSNBC did a whole segment this AM and repeatedly used the term.
They are willingly avowed white supremacists. Just say it.
Matt McIrvin
@Bobby Thomson: Some days, I think we’re heading for the race war that white bigots have been going on about for decades. They just don’t know that they’re the bad guys and that they’re going to start it, because nobody else wants it. But white fragility, this idea that being called a racist is as bad as the N-word, is going to be the thing that gets a lot of whites outside the neo-Nazi core to join them. They’ll put up concentration camps and tell themselves that the people they’re putting in there are the real racists.
PsiFighter37
Hillary should stand firm – and even double down. Point out all of it – the racism, the sexism, the misogyny, the Islamophobia.
Make them uncomfortable by pointing out the truth. The fact that the Trumpers are clutching their pearls means that a bully got hit hard and they don’t like it and whining like the little bitches they are.
ruemara
@Frankensteinbeck: I’m just sitting here appreciating the gobsmackery of people on here whining that calling out in the lightest of terms the white supremacist vote is a losing strategy. No one wants to admit that your friends, your relatives, that nice neighbor down the road, is a goddam racist mothereff who holds hateful, frightening views. It’s not up to us minorities to stop Trump. It’s up to white people to stop dicking around with your peers and call it real and straight. You’re voting Trump, you’re voting Nazi racist and I will not have you in my life. Period. This isn’t agree to disagree or we can win them over or just read Picketty. This seems to be the most controversial thing I say here. Don’t yammer about minority turnout, worry about that 40%+ of the white electorate who thinks crushing the browns queers and muzzies is just what they need.
Iowa Old Lady
I find it patronizing to cluck sympathetically over racist or misogynist voters and say they’re just unhappy and angry. They’re adults who are responsible for their own words and actions.
Ceci n'est pas mon nym
What’s on my agenda? Nothing at all. We ran away from home to a B&B for the weekend. Hot and steamy as heck but no real complaints.
@satby: OK on iPhone I do have complaints. My iPhone 6 is irritating the heck out of me.
– often can’t see a WiFi net, including at home, even if every other device in the room can see and use it,
– rarely has functioning GPS. I’ll just get “searching for location” for most of a drive. About once every 3 days I’ll suddenly get an accurate location. Then 5 minutes later, zip.
Frankensteinbeck
@ruemara:
Also, thank you. One thing I wondered is whether complaining about if Hillary should go this far is… well, whitesplaining.
Bobby Thomson
@?BillinGlendaleCA: yes. I know white people. They’re stupid, short sighted, and blind.
Ceci n'est pas mon nym
@Ceci n’est pas mon nym: At this point there is no way I would buy an iPhone 7. Searching online tells me that both the WiFi and GPS issues are common among iPhone 6 users and so far Apple hasn’t offered any solution or even acknowledged a widespread issue.
I’m actually almost ready to trade DOWN to an iPhone 5. My wife has one and it works great.
Corner Stone
@PsiFighter37: Oh, crap. If that’s your campaign advice then I’m going to need to carefully review my stance on this.
PsiFighter37
@Corner Stone: I never have understood why on earth you have such antipathy for me.
Cacti
I agree with those saying, now that she said it, no point in shying away from it or apologizing it.
As much as the Trump fluffing press tries to muddy the waters, the choices in this election couldn’t be more stark. One campaign is egalitarian, and one is objectively pro-bigotry.
JPL
@PsiFighter37: She needs to be clear that the alt-right is taking over the GOP, and then define the alt-right. imo
gogol's wife
@PPCLI:
Right on.
The Sheriff's Mourning Jim
Of course the media’s clutching their pearls. Their core remaining audience is old white and racist, what else would you expect?
Bobby Thomson
@ruemara: supporters need to be saying that, not the candidate. She has to drag the idiots across the finish line.
gogol's wife
@ruemara:
Right on.
bupalos
I don’t think this was a wise move but we’ll see I guess. I don’t think this election is losable in any practical event, and this kind of looks like a reaction to polls which in turn are in reaction to a media effort to prop up the Potemkin candidate so the election ratings aren’t cancelled. I think plugging your eyes and ears and getting out the vote should be the whole of the “strategy” here. But I admit it’s a little hard not to be rattled and come unmoored from basic demographic realities when you see Ohio Trump +4.
This looks kind of like a Trumpish attempt to send the conversation in a different direction by making a weird rumble. “Basket of deplorables??”
Ceci n'est pas mon nym
@Iowa Old Lady: I see her comments as appealing to the better natures of those who still have better natures.
There may not be many, but she only needs to peel away a few percent.
JPL
Technically if Trump is at forty percent, then she is calling out the twenty percent of the electorate. That number could be low. Romney called out forty-seven percent.
Chuck Todd can join the f..kem group
Miss Bianca
@JPL:
Um…you mean like in that major speech she gave two weeks ago in Reno where she did *exactly that*? Unhand those pearls, please. She’s got this.
PsiFighter37
@JPL: She did already define the alt right – she spent an entire speech on it.
Of course, it is too much to expect the media and the general voting population to be able to connect the two.
This whole thing will blow over anyways – Trump will say another idiotic thing in the course of the next day or two. And when it comes to debate time, Clinton will need to absolutely floor him – come out swinging and don’t stop until the bell rings.
Kristine
@Ceci n’est pas mon nym: I still have my 5, and I like it fine except for the tiny keyboard. Good to know that 6’s and 7’s are at sixes and sevens.
ruemara
@Frankensteinbeck: yes. So is the regularly scheduled swerve to worry about the brown folk turning out. That’s a copout worry so you don’t have to examine something ugly.
Wapiti
@Matt McIrvin:
Because of the nature of stochastic terrorism, I think there is a very high likelihood of at least one of Trump’s supporters escalating the hateful rhetoric into actual violence within the next 4 years. If Clinton is President, she is going to have to deal with it.
Cacti
@PsiFighter37:
The debates are one area where I have zero concerns about Hillz. She’s a terrific debater and will mop the floor with Trump, as she did with Bernie. I honestly wish the first one was sooner.
JPL
@Miss Bianca: Thanks for the mentioning the speech. It’s a pity that her speeches don’t get covered, as much as velveeta cooncap.
Miss Bianca
@ruemara: Yowza. Tell those hard truths.
How’s the new gig going? Started yet?
ruemara
@Bobby Thomson: my eyes are rolling so hard at you, my vision is in spirals. When Obama “evolved” on marriage equality, many said he should be out there leading the change in hearts and minds. I said it’s sometimes easier to let people take an adversarial stance if they’re going to wind up where you want them to go anyway. She’s leading, but she needs to wait for you lot to pipe up? Really? On race? At least being gay spans the racial divide. Getting people to call out friends and relatives on race? You go with that strategy.
@Miss Bianca: one more week. Although yesterday can be summed up with this motherfucker right here. They’re panicking and making my last days awful as punishment.
mike in dc
The Clinton campaign should, if challenged by the media, dump the media’s own entrance and exit polls, issue/attitude polling about race among Trump supporters, reports and video from Trump rallies, and a long list of white supremacist associates, allies and supporters of Trump. Clinton’s assertion is extraordinarily easy to substantiate, so the media’s fallback will be to suggest it’s “divisive” and therefore a gaffe. As someone said, forcing non-racist whites to disavow and disassociate from their racist neighbors is always a difficult but necessary process.
Iowa Old Lady
@JPL: Didn’t she already do that? Wasn’t that what her alt-right speech was about?
Botsplainer
@PsiFighter37:
My concern is that as a sketchy developer, he’s very accustomed to being a compulsive liar. She can quote him verbatim on some of the stupid that he shits out his mouth, and he’ll say he never said that, either with that stupid fucking smile or the grimace.
It’s a genuine issue. Short of having a projector on stage preloaded with his dumbassed greatest hits, I think it to be kind of tough to combat, as the pundits will vomit forth paens to strong messaging and consistency while noting that he didn’t drop his pants and shit onstage.
pluky
@Frankensteinbeck: well, since you asked. hillary’s comment is in the “rain is wet” category of “so what else is new” statrments.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I saw Marc Caputo, who I think is a sort of libertarian-ish writer for Politico, saying Clinton may have been exaggerating when she says “half”. Then again, I’d like to see someone attempt to argue that the words she used don’t describe his rallies to a T
PPCLI
@gogol’s wife: Thanks. By the way, since you’re married to Gogol, would you agree that no character in fiction exemplifies Trump’s personality quite as well as Nozdryov?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
the media have never wanted to acknowledge that birtherism is racism, and that Romney (and MSNBC never-Trumper Stuart Stevens) embraced Romney not in spite of but precisely because of birther racism
Amaranthine RBG
Shhhhhh……. quiet everybody. An old is talking …
PsiFighter37
@Botsplainer: That will only be a problem for ‘I’m not a truth squad’ Chris Wallace. You can bet after the beating Matt Lauer took that Lester Holt (who is doing the first debate) will almost certainly be at the ready to call out Trump on his lies – especially if they are too blatant.
Trentrunner
To put in perspective: Donald Trump has said literally hundreds of worse things about voters than Hillary’s “basket of deplorables.”
BUT
The problem with “deplorables” and “irredeemables” is the same as the problem with “illegals”: You’re reducing a human being to a piece of them, to one aspect of their behavior. One adjective of many that could describe them becomes the single noun that defines them.
Maybe that’s correct (as in polling and analysis supports it) to do so.
But reducing people to one aspect (however deplorable or irredeemable) is not a good look on a national politician. In the best sense of the term, it’s not very American, if we think Americanism includes the possibility of self-transformation.
If we think that Trump is legitimizing racism, misogyny, et al., (and I think he is), then we have to accept that the reverse can happen, too, that people can be either talked out of their bigotry or at least learn to keep it to themselves. That’s some kind of redemption, isn’t it?
JPL
@Iowa Old Lady: Yes. A few of the commenters mentioned that speech. I didn’t see it myself though.
Immanentize
@Miss Bianca: I agree with you.
And I do not think this is an unforced error or slip of the tongue. I expect (hope?) that this is one of the first steps to making a vote for Trump a truly shameful act. Even among republicans. It is a powerful argument and a great political move if this is a consistent and coordinated effort. And I think it started with Obama asking republicans with any brain to break with Trump and go with Hillary.
Gelfling 545
@Hunter: Are we to understand from this that Taylor is holding up himself and his associates as exemplars of morality and intelligence? God help us all.
Botsplainer
Another thing I’m thinking is that she can be in a unique position to freeze out the national correspondents and pundits due to their mediocrity. Focus on talking and granting access to print reporters from second tier cities – Detroit, Phoenix, Sacto, Seattle, Cleveland, Pittsburgh. Never call on CNN or Fox, invite TV stringers from cities around the country on a rotating basis.
sukabi
@amk: oh dear, maybe she should have gone with a more common phrase to describe them like “racist fuckheads” …. “basket of deplorables” sounds like it was pulled from a Dickens book, and these folks don’t deserve that kind of elevation.
Glidwrith
@PsiFighter37: Agreed. I think a lot of folks are soft bigots. They won’t look past the surface, but parade the racism loud and proud and a good sized chunk will recoil in horror. Some might even learn enough to start overcoming that soft bigotry.
Clinton did good. She called out the supremists and gave the soft bigots an escape hatch. Maybe they will start to wake.
Fair Economist
@MattF:
Genuine supporters of rightist policies support Hillary, because Trump is trying to take over the Republican party for the white supremacists, and if he’s successful those policies will go the way of the dodo bird. White supremacists love welfare as long as the ******* don’t get it and they love higher wages as long as it doesn’t go to foreign *****. One of the interesting takeaways from this election is how few people actually support rightist policies beyond tax cuts for the rich (and even they will be limited by the demands of the supremacists). Bartlett, along with his surprisingly few fellow travelers, must be livid at seeing his movement hijacked.
bupalos
I assume they’ve gamed out the backlash, because while the campaign seems to maneuver like a battleship, they do seem to dot i’s and cross t’s pretty well and there’s simply no way ‘basket of deplorables’ didn’t go through 5-10 strategy meetings before it was debuted.
Mrs. Greenspan: Most white people support Trump, so why did you just call all white people flaming racists that deserve to die?
Clinton: Well, I didn’t, and when I said half of them are motivated by one of the various bigotries, I use “half” as just a kind of figure of speech, obviously none of us know if the percentage is higher or lower because we can’t read minds. May be lower, may be higher, it’s definitely not all and DEFINITELY not none. But my point is that this isn’t just some fringe that is a little icing on his cake, it’s a really big chunk of his cake. He has overwhelming support from white supremacists and nazi’s and these sorts of people, and he lies about not understanding this, he deliberately incites it and pulls media stunts like his fake birtherism investigations, he slurs hispanics as rapists, he openly admires and promotes the national interest of the Russian right and Vlad Putin, Russia! which is the most bigoted and socially backward major power in the world, not to mention a prime opponent of US strategic interests. There’s a reason he does these things. History shows us that when times get economically challenging, as we all know they are due to a number of global forces, these kind of demogogues pop up and run this game, and it’s often hard to predict where that game ends. But when the demagogue wins, it’s always in much worse place and sometimes in a global nightmare. So we need to wake up. America has NEVER been on that side, we’ve ALWAYS been on the other side, and that’s the prime reason we’re the greatest, strongest nation in the history of the world, whatever Donald Trump wants us to believe about what huge losers we are.
Gelfling 545
@PsiFighter37: Yep! It’s not like she’s wrong here..
amk
@Trentrunner: Well, she is offering the ‘redemption’, if you cared to look past the ‘namecalling’.
frosty
@Ceci n’est pas mon nym: I just (reluctantly) got my first Apple ever, a 6e. No issues so far, but I will note that I don’t use WiFi or GPS on it.
amk
Remember “Latinos are rapists” ?
Enough said.
ruemara
@Trentrunner: yeah we’ll just wait out this sleep of reason
Corner Stone
@JPL: It was a true barn burner of a speech. You owe it to yourself to give it a lookie loo.
Transcript
Video
Iowa Old Lady
@JPL: Sorry. I didn’t mean to pile on.
Fair Economist
@gogol’s wife:
The reason Godwinning was inappropriate is that you didn’t want to use fascism to describe relatively ordinary behavior because then people would ignore it if the real thing came along.
This is the real thing.
Felonius Monk
@Botsplainer:
You are giving them far more consideration than they deserve. If only they were at least mediocre.
ETA: How’s the diving going?
Immanentize
@bupalos: but but would Hillary be smiling when she said all that?
Corner Stone
@frosty:
I..errr…what?
gwangung
@Trentrunner:
To put it in perspective, Clinton was talking about WHITE people.
And that’s why Republicans are so upset.
different-church-lady
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
No. The word that describes his rallies is “all”.
frosty
@Corner Stone: … so I looked at the settings and I DO have wifi on. So I guess it hasn’t been a problem. I have “Location” off except for Google Maps. I thought it was like my Android where it only located via cell tower but apparently this thing uses GPS, towers and whatever to locate. Now I gotta figure if I can turn GPS off, just because.
So I was wrong on both counts. Dayum!
sukabi
@Wapiti: you give it 4 years? More likely, to be 4 months. Election, no matter the outcome will be a trigger point.
Peale
@gwangung: had she said that white people have gotten out of control with the way they raise their kids and called cited the advice of tough policemen as the source for her solution…they would be fainting right now.
catclub
@Karmus:
47% unemployment played a part
Lizzy L
David Atkins at The Washington Monthly makes some good points today which leads me to think that when Hillary says this kind of stuff, she’s appealing to the David Brooks’s piece of the Republican party to wake up, and see what the world is really like. She’s looking for the people Atkins calls the “Romney conservatives,” and she’s inviting them to re-align with her, because they really can’t go with Trump’s voters.
Atkins would say it’s wasted effort. Here’s his comment about the Romney conservatives:
He thinks the Republican party will split.
I’m closer to Atkins’s way of thinking.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
I haven’t read the other comments, but Atrios makes a cautionary point: “Don’t Punch Down”. There are dangers in comments like Hillary’s, and it’s something to keep in mind. I’m sure she’s aware of things like this, but…
Cheers,
Scott.
Miss Bianca
@Trentrunner:
Fair enough, but I would point out that the essential difference between referring to someone as an “illegal” and as a “deplorable” is that in the first case, “illegal” is not a character trait: it is a label assigned to someone regardless of any aspect of their essential humanity and, indeed, negates their humanity. It is, in fact, a sign of someone’s essentially Deplorable lack of empathy or awareness if that person uses that term to describe someone. It reflects a flaw in their characters.
Can such people “be either talked out of their bigotry or at least learn to keep it to themselves”? Yes, perhaps. I couldn’t get up in the morning if I didn’t believe people were capable of deep, fundamental change. But I’m going to keep breathing, and I’m going to opine that those nice “alt-righters” – with their racism, misogyny, xenophobia, and anti-Semiticism loudly and proudly on display – actually *are* a basket of deplorables – unless and until they make the decision to change their behavior. I *want* them shamed and shunned.
If that makes me a bad person, I’ll freely admit I’m a bad person. I’m not going to worry about essentializing people whose whole ideology consists of essentializing anyone they see as “other” – which would include not just me, and members of my family, but some of my favorite commenters here.
Peale
@catclub: yep. At least there was actually an economic crisis to point to. We’re kind of at the mercy of people who think we’re experiencing 30% inflation and it’s still 1990 when it comes to crime rates and 2008 when it comes to unemployment.
Emma
@Trentrunner: Things unexpressed fester and turn violent. I am already half-fearing violence on election day. At least if they can shout their imbecile obscenities they can let the rage out and not pick up a baseball bat. Or a gun.
And, from this Catholic-raised agnostic, redemption is not bought that cheaply.
geg6
@ruemara:
Tell it.
Nominus
Raise your hand if you are not old and white and still think that HRC’s language was too strong.
I spend a lot of time on Twitter with people who feel like a Trump presidency puts them in actual, physical danger. Calling that bullshit “deplorable” is the nicest thing you could say.
As my fav lady Propane Jane (@docrocktex26) is fond of reminding people, the Obama coalition has more than just hand-wringing white liberals, and they beat the bullshit MSM narrative and elected Obama twice.
Trentrunner
@Miss Bianca: Smart stuff. I agree.
different-church-lady
@ruemara: A-goddam-men!
Botsplainer
@Felonius Monk:
Diving was glorious. Yesterday’s cenotes were amazing – the first was way off the beaten path and featured a 110 foot descent into the top part of a toxic hydrogen sulfide cloud (occurs naturally) to see stalactites that formed as bells. Stayed down to the max end of the no deco table. Was really nice. The second involved a newly opened cenote, and including me, the guide and his smoking hot German girlfriend, only two other divers have ever been in it. Labyrinthine passages abounded, and it was actually more of a cave dive. There were no markers, so it involved A LOT of trust in the guide. Max depth 45, and I managed to use only 1200 lbs of air in 50 minutes. For a lifelong heavyset guy, my SAC rates are off the charts.
Botsplainer
Oh, and I fly out early tomorrow, so no diving today. I’m sitting by the beach with huevos con chorizo, a Bloody Mary and listening to Bee Gees.
Miss Bianca
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: In what sense is calling out white supremacists “punching down”? Do you and Atrios mean to suggest that they might not, despite their loudly professed assertions to the contrary, be “supreme” after all?
Peale
@Lizzy L: I don’t think Hillary is necessarily courting republicans to split off and join her. She may be trying to reach sections of her own base who aren’t yet trusting her to understand and respond to their concerns.
Glidwrith
@ruemara: Name it and shame it!
Peale
@Miss Bianca: I can understand that. But this isn’t the same as her previous speech. In that speech she named names of specific trump supporters and people who have endorsed him or joined the campaign. That’s punching up as those people are leaders within the alt-right (otherwise, who gives two shits about their endorsement). In this excerpt she is in fact calling out a mass of voters. That is what is different.
Corner Stone
@Fair Economist:
Bartlett may be a reasonable sounding person nowadays but he has no position to be upset at what Trump is revealing the R party to actually be. His revered boss said the same shit Trump has infamously been saying, just with a friendly uncle’s smile.
MomSense
Enjoying one of my last mornings with my oldest kid before he leaves to climb big mountains in the Canadian Rockies. Then he’s moving. Its bittersweet. You hope they will have adventures and really live but you miss them when they go.
piratedan
well, I sure as hell don’t have an issue with her plainly (yes politely) speaking the truth. I understand the Media clutching their pearls because that would imply that they’ve been giving cover to the fact that Trump does in fact coddle and allow racists to assist, coordinate and support his campaign. For fucks sake, they’re trying to normalize and legitimize Bannon and Breitbart. Part of me, gets pissy at the thought or “normalize”. It is what it fucking is, the GOP has a healthy portion of folks who are racist. Don’t believe it, read every fucking comment thread around the country for damn near every media entity and blog that has a national following. It is there.
If Trump doesn’t feel that way, how does Bannon get hired? How can he explain and cite Putin as a model of how to run a government when you see journalists killed, opponents jailed and “undesirables” harassed and murdered. Yeah, that’s the proper model alright. We’ve seen how thin skinned Trump is, you don’t think he’d use his Presidential power to get retribution for every slight (real or imagined) he’s ever received? THAT is why the ALT-Right/White Supremacists adore him, he’s on their team and you can bet that everyone who’s ever been on their list will get the shiv.
These Media dipshits think that well yeah, sure he’ll fuck over minorities and people who don’t agree with him, but we’re the media we’ll be just fine here in our bubble, after all, we helped him get there. One, they’re simply not that smart and secondly, they have no concept of history and they can’t possibly believe because they’re also white, that they could be in any danger.
Corner Stone
@ruemara:
I’ve had to stop associating with several people, some of them I called friend for more than two decades. I told more than one R friend of mine that the GOP was the party for racists. When asked, “Are you calling me racist?” I responded with variants of, “Well, if the party fits then you may want to think about that.”
We’ve since stopped having lunches, surprisingly.
Citizen_X
@bupalos:
Well actually, half of the country tried to split off and join that side, during that whole unpleasantness in the 1860s.
Miss Bianca
@Peale: A fair point. However, I think I’m veering toward ruemara’s POV on this one: it is on beyond time that white people called shame on their own tribe. And anyone who could even consider a vote for Trump (and I’m looking at members of my own family) deserve to flinch a little at the reflection that that means they are either straight-up racists or willing to be down with appeals to straight-up racism. Good Germans, if you will. I’ve lost patience, and again…that may say more about my own inherent character flaws – my lack of tolerance for white intolerance. I guess I feel like this shit needs to be named, attacked, and drummed out of the corps of the body politic. We can certainly disagree about how that gets accomplished, but right now…I’m just glad to hear HRC address it, in whatever terms she chooses to address it.
SFAW
@Jack the Second:
FEMA camps, of course. I mean, what else could it possibly be?
? Martin
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
There is no punching down in Clinton’s comments. She clearly breaks the supporters into 2 camps – the racists/etc. who you cannot punch down to because they are attacking from a position of social privilege, and they themselves believe themselves entitled to that position on top, and those that are angry about a host of other legitimate issues which she recognizes. She may blame them for misprioritizing their anger, but she’s not dismissing it or them for being angry. She spoke as though that were an electorate that she wants to reach, but she has no interest in reaching the first group.
Now, it’s a subtle message, so no question many people will misread it, but I don’t see it as any different than what Obama was saying in his ‘cling to guns and religion’ comment.
mike in dc
I think calling out bigotry does tend to reinforce support for Clinton among non-white voters, for whom the bigotry of Trump supporters is nothing to downplay or gloss over.
Schlemazel
@Bobby Thomson:
It has to be taken as read than anyone blind is also short sighted . . . seriously short sighted. Nice strawman btw
gogol's wife
@PPCLI:
No, no, no, no, no!!! Nozdryov is charming, handsome, and hilariously funny, the embodiment of creative fertility! But yes, every word out of his mouth is a lie, so he does share that trait with Trump.
Bobby Thomson
@? Martin: white Anericans don’t do subtlety, especially those in the press.
henqiguai
@bupalos(#123):
Ignorance or *willful* ignorance (a.k.a. learned stupidity) is *not* the answer.
‘Cause, went into moderation on my first attempt (my own fault).
Brachiator
@Frankensteinbeck:
You do realize, don’t you, that the alt right do not see Jews as part of the majority, and single them out as an object of hatred?
Trump’s son in law, Ivanka’s husband, is Jewish, I believe. And yet I think I’ve read that he was instrumental in bringing Stephen Bannon on board the Trump campaign. It is interesting that they somehow believe that they are protected from the bigotry that a Trump victory would unleash.
Schlemazel
@amk:
Well, he really didn’t say that . . . he said Mexico was sending the rapists not all of Latin America
Maybe if the can Kellyanne I can grab that spot!!!
Botsplainer
Here’s the reality of what Trump is revealing about conservatism (and it will be very important going forward no to smack at the Republican Party, but conservatism itself): it is rooted in authoritarian exclusion.
Turn the phrase into a filthy word; deny the positive connotations that they consistently retreat to during electoral losses. When grumpy old white guys intone about how they’re not really Republicans but are instead conservative, take away the positivity.
Felonius Monk
@Botsplainer:
Nice work if you can get it. :-)
JPL
@Corner Stone: Thanks! I’ve pulled it up, and as soon as I finish my yard work, I’ll watch.
Mike in NC
@srv: Oh fuck off, you moron.
piratedan
@Miss Bianca: and even more to the point, if they try to hide behind “policy”, please identify exactly what policy is so incredibly moving that would allow you to still be grouped with racists and bigots…
from what I can see… it appears that gun humpers no longer give a shit about anything else as long as they can own a gun/arsenal and those faux “pro-lifers” that are so pro-life that it’s perfectly acceptable for them to blow up and murder doctors who perform abortions.
The remainder really do appear to be racists and bigots and a few tribal entities that are so far up Faux News ass that they haven’t see sunlight in decades.
SenyorDave
Identify Trump as the racist, sexist, bigot. Go after him, people will make the connection to his followers.
amk
@srv: Idiot.
different-church-lady
Here’s how it’s going down on a non-political board I haunt:
Schlemazel
@Mike in NC:
I don’t know, he gave me a good laugh as he often does. You would think it would be painful to go through life always wrong, always missing the point and publicly embarrassing yourself on a blog. Apparently, at least in his case, you would be wrong.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Miss Bianca: Atrios is always curt, but I took it to mean that there are dangers in saying “half of Trump’s supporters” are in a bin like that. One has to do it carefully or it can be taken as punching down. And Democrats should be very careful about punching down – that’s the GOP’s MO and we really don’t want to go there.
Cheers,
Scott.
MattF
@mike in dc: And let’s not forget the right wing’s deplorable habit of underestimating the electoral relevance of non-white voters.
Bobby Thomson
@ruemara: that’s an interesting point, because Obama didn’t really lead on gay equality, instead waiting until friends and family had primed the pump. I agree with you that Clinton should be leading. My point is that her rhetoric about individual supporters has to leave a face saving out.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@srv: Hey knucklehead, she knew the media was there. She wasn’t secretly saying it behind your back basket dweller, it was to your face. You know, unlike cowardly Mitt.
Ruckus
@Raven:
You are an example of why I do what I’m told (anymore!) when I have things that need fixing. And yes I used to be one of those examples. I felt fine after about 2 weeks after my hernia surgery but was told it will take 4 weeks. Sure enough, if I actually listened to what my body was telling me, it took 27 days to feel like I was anywhere near normal and a couple of more weeks to actually be reasonably back. Of course in my case it was obvious that I had a hernia, every doc that looked agreed instantly with my diagnosis.
different-church-lady
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: The fuckin’ danger is in believing it’s only “half” instead of “all”.
dmsilev
@srv: Aside from everything else, could you please learn to use apostrophes appropriately? Thank you.
Botsplainer
Oh, and Trump’s deportation force would likely be an enthusiastic group of volunteers who will bring their own firearms and will tend to be 60 and over.
All they’d need in the way of funding would be enough to cover some snappy uniforms and Sam Browne belts. That and maybe some battery recharge packs for their Rascal scooters.
Brachiator
@srv:
Nicely done. I do believe that this is the first time that you have ever posted anything worth responding to.
You are entirely wrong in your assessment of Hillary’s comment, but I think you are correct in how conservative media and stupid pundits of all persuasions will try to spin it.
JPL
How many of Trump’s supporters had to look up the term? I wish that Hillary had used the word some, but she didn’t.
She needs to defend her comment, and drive home the point, that is not who as a nation we are.
Ruckus
@satby:
It gets better.
OK no it really doesn’t change at all.
different-church-lady
@Brachiator:
You sure about that?
Hal
I’ve been greatly disappointed with people I went to high school with and grew up with over the past 20+ years. Former hip hop loving high school friends now avowed Trump supporters. Family members who can’t seem to see why a gay, black man might not think Trump America is a place I would like to live. Hillary’s comments are only going to offend people who aren’t voting for her in the first place.
Also, Facebook should be chock-full of false, indignant rage. Which reminds me, I think it’s time for me to chop my friends list. Too many former hip-hop loving high school friends that now think Trump is just what this country needs.
PPCLI
@Peale: I agree, and the followup has to be handled very carefully. In the next few days the key will be to make sure that everyone speaking on Hilary’s behalf has a specific bunch of things they can point to: The people who should “hang that bitch”, and the Trump campaign honchos who say Hillary should be executed, for example. Every campaign is going to have crazies, and it is a cheap move to blame the candidate for the occasional wacko. But the Trump campaign actively encourages them, with the “Lock Her Up” chants and so on. Watch the Trump speech on immigration immediately post-Mexico. The atmosphere is scary, and this is clearly by design. This has to be faced head on. Yes, every candidate has some distasteful supporters. Trump is reaching out to them, encouraging them, celebrating their worst behavior.
The decent Trump supporters — and there are many — have to face this.
Revisiting what I said above: The next time Kellyanne Conway goes on TV to simper about “Hillary’s name-calling”, she should be asked by someone with a young daughter, as I have, what Conway thinks we should say to our daughters when we walk through parking lots and they point out pickup trucks festooned with “Trump that Bitch” / “Hilary Sucks but Not Like Monica” / LIfe’s a Bitch, Don’t Elect One” / “Two Fat Thighs, Two Small Breasts, Left Wing” / “This Bitch Is Batshit Crazy”/ etc.
Should I say that “Special girl, this is an acceptable way to talk about women?” That the owner of the van is obviously a great person? Or should I say that this is an absolutely deplorable way to talk, and if she ever meets a man who talks that way should should stay away from him?
My son is happily grown up now, but when I was raising him I made absolutely, sternly clear that “bitch” was one of the forbidden words, that if he referred to a woman that way there would be hell to pay at home. Does Ms. Conway feel that I should have given a different lesson? That I should have said, “Son, it’s absolutely OK to say “Trump that Bitch” / “Hilary Sucks but Not Like Monica” / LIfe’s a Bitch, Don’t Elect One” / “Two Fat Thighs, Two Small Breasts, Left Wing” / “This Bitch Is Batshit Crazy”/ etc.? Or should I have said what I did say: Talking about women in that way is deplorable.
MomSense
@rikyrah:
It also explains why the Republicans are in such a bind. They’ve been dog whistling to their base while maintaining a respectability veneer to the Villagers and other entitled white people. Now der Trump is using racism out in the open to motivate their base. They don’t want to lose their base and they want to maintain their respectability veneer. Hillz is making it tougher for them so they are going to try to discredit the truth and her.
I don’t know if you caught Joy Reid, Katy Tur, and Rep.Kingston on Lawrence O’Donnell last night but it was so good to see Kingston struggle with this in real time.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@Brachiator: I think it was deliberate on Hillary’s part. She saw the push back on the media with all the CF stories and now she’s testing them with this. You can say many things about her, but she’s not dumb. The campaign knows that the false equivalency stories would be a result, so she’s giving them a chance to show their ass again and they went right for it. The push back on these assholes will be big, just like for the CF stories. And if you can’t tell the truth about a certain segment of white people in this country then so be it.
sukabi
@MattF: they don’t “underestimate” they actively seek to disenfranchise, prevent actual voting by anyone not likely to vote R.
Brachiator
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
Fuck Atrios. And fuck the notion that pointing out blatant appeals to racism might be perceived as “punching down.”
I can easily imagine some assclown reporter demanding of Clinton, “exactly how many racists are among Trump’s base? Aren’t you using too broad a brush?”
Journalists might think about doing their job and taking a count.
Meanwhile, Clinton was very clear in making a distinction between non racist and racists, and in offering a way out for those who do not want to be associated with bigotry. That is not punching down.
Lizzy L
Anyone wondering how President Donald Trump would deal with domestic terrorism should read (or re-read) Cory Doctorow’s YA novel Little Brother. It’s YA, so it’s not as ugly as it could be and it has a more or less happy ending. But he gets a lot of it right, including the racism. Oh — the book was published in 2008.
Hunter Gathers
I love how white people, who value ‘toughness’ above all else, consistently fall to pieces whenever one of their subgroups is rightly criticized.
Calling out bullshit is so, so much worse than the actual bullshit itself.
Corner Stone
@SenyorDave:
It simply does not work like that. White people have an amazing ability to deflect, and the media has been ably assisting them, lo these many years. For example, the term “alt right”. It seems somehow like it should mean anti-establishment people with a bent toward “conservative” ideology. But if it was called its true name, “white supremacy”, that’s a little harder to just sidle up to all willy nilly like nothing strange is going on.
henqiguai
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet(#208):
Oh, I don’t know. I think the Planting Punch can be quite cool.
PPCLI
@gogol’s wife: Fair enough. But Nozdryov is still young. Maybe Trump represents what he will be like at age 70.
Brachiator
@different-church-lady:
I might be being too generous.
gogol's wife
@Botsplainer:
“60 and over”? Have you watched that NYTimes video of his brownshirt rallies? The average age of the thugs spewing racist venom is about 25.
Ruckus
@OzarkHillbilly:
@Cacti:
We, as a country have been running from the truth about bigotry for ever. It is one of the most disgraceful things we do. It is one of the reasons we have a rabid racist running for president. At some point we have to address this head on. Hillary Clinton is the person doing this. She may not be black but she has had decades of the same kind of bigoted bullshit thrown at her. It’s not that she just understands, she has lived with/had thrown at her, the same type if not the exact hate for a great deal of her adult life. People have tried to ostracize her from society for being her, for wanting to be not the person they say she is but the person that she really is. This telling the truth may not work, but we have to have the conversation. She is trying to have that and we need to have her back.
Because who else has stood up to the bigots?
amk
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
May be atrios, the ever poutraged, should read up on what she said.
amk
@Ruckus: In short, she is being the adult in the room.
Corner Stone
“right-winging, bitter-clinging proud clingers of our guns, our God, and our religions, and our Constitution”
That was Palin endorsing Trump in Jan 2016.
Chyron HR
I’m sick of Hillary’s triangulation!
OH SHIT YOU CAN’T JUST SAY THAT THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH BEING VIRULENTLY RACIST TONE THAT MESSAGE DOWN!
sukabi
Maybe she should have gone with something like….”Trump has lifted up the underbelly of American politics, the racist taint that stains our great democracy”
Ruckus
@PPCLI:
It may just be for them.
Botsplainer
@Hunter Gathers:
No demographic demands political correctness like honest, hard working white Americans of the Heartland. Fuckups, if pointed out at all, need to be gingerly expressed lest feelings be hurt.
We are required to fetishized their cultural icons.
Pointing out that their beloved parents, grandparents, pastors, coaches, teachers and mentors were wrong in their active participation in (or cowardly indifference to) matters of race and gender is strictly forbidden because of the rawness that such allegations create.
And everybody knows that the greatest injustices are done to old white guys who may face social approbation for uttering disparaging things about people of color, Latinos, Jews, women and the LGBT.
Miss Bianca
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: I happen to believe that at least half of Trump’s supporters *can* be characterized like that. There are a hell of a lot of white racists, both hard- and soft-core variety, in this country. And “being careful” – shit, Democrats have “been careful” of “Reagan Democrat/White Working Class” fee-fees for fucking ever, and what has it gotten us? Being “Willie Hortoned”. Being Swift-boated. *W*, for Christ’s sake. Birtherism. The Tea Party. Sarah Palin. And now, Trump.
Maybe it’s just fucking time to stop being fucking “careful”.
Brachiator
@Peale:
There is a recent op Ed piece in one of the local free weekly papers here in California noting how some progressive Democrats are offended that Clinton might be reaching out to Republicans. They would, for example, reject Meg Whitman’s endorsement of Hillary.
These people insist that it must be our tribe vs their tribe, and that victory must be achieved solely by a maximum get out the vote effort among Democrats only.
But I think that Hillary should steal a page from the Trump playbook. “Hey, Republicans, vote for me. What do you have to lose?”
different-church-lady
@Brachiator: Some progressive democrats could get offended that the sun always rises in the east. They’d propose policy that would allow it to rise in other cardinal directions and then claim anyone who said was impossible was just a corporate authoritarian.
amk
Frankensteinbeck
@Brachiator:
I do, and the ultra-orthodox Jews I know, who are racist as shit and hate ‘Obama bin Ladin’, are terrified as fuck of Trump. They hear his rhetoric and think ‘We’re next.’
However, growing up Jewish, I faced very little visible bigotry, not enough to at any point feel oppressed. Slightly annoyed the the ridiculous pervasiveness of Christianity, a couple of encounters with bigots, but nothing like feeling systematically discriminated against.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Miss Bianca: She could have made the point, and kept the point on the substance, by saying “far too many” instead of “half”.
Her main campaign theme is “Together”. One doesn’t bring people together by making voters question “Is she calling me a racist?”. By saying something like “far too many” she’s making the point but not saying that if two Trump supporters (or Trump curious) people get together, then one of them is a racist.
“Far too many” is just as true, makes the point, doesn’t invite tut-tutting (“Does she have a scientific poll? Let’s see the cross-tabs! Otherwise, she’s just lying!!1”) and doesn’t risk being seen as punching down.
It’s not a big deal, she knows these language landmines, but there’s no sense in giving the political press and those who will take offense at anything, any talking points.
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
(Hey, it beats talking about e-mails, amirite?)
Miss Bianca
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: Oh, hey, I know what – let’s just do the press’s job for them! Let’s parse HRC’s every word, shall we? Because it’s not like it actually matters which actual words she uses – they’re ALWAYS wrong! All the time!
“She said ‘far too many’. What does she MEAN by that? Does she have any actual numbers? Why isn’t she more worried about offending ‘far too many’ people in this country?”
ETA: In case it’s not clear, I’m not trying to pile on you per se – it’s just that no matter what she says, how she says it, HRC is going to be analyzed by Clinton Rules. Case in point. She might as well say what she means loud and proud. I’m for one cheering her for it.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@Botsplainer: Hence the reaction to Colin Kaepernick. I mean you can’t even point out in general terms that subset of white people are racists, without white people losing their shit.
amk
@Miss Bianca: Exactly. Now they can bicker about if 50% of his ‘base’ is racists, misogynists, xenophobes or not.
Cacti
@Ruckus:
Fair points.
Since this was an event with media members present, rather than something captured surreptitiously by the wait staff a la Mittens, I’m starting to think it was a calculated move (e.g. Bill and Sistah Souljah).
workworkwork
@JPL: Disagree. The GOP is publicly calling for her execution. It’s about time the Dems started to push back on that crap.
Besides, it’s not as if it isn’t true.
NR
Well hey, this statement shows one thing about Hillary: She’s willing to speak the truth even if it means she loses the election.
And here people were saying she was a liar and a phony.
Miss Bianca
@NR: Oh, shut up, toad. Go back to wanking in front of your signed photo of Bernie Sanders and singing “The Way We Were” between tugs. Those assholes she’s talking about were never going to vote for her in the first place.
Ruckus
@Cacti:
A number of people have made the same point. We have been avoiding the issue, sidestepping about it for ever, and making little tiny steps in the right direction for what, 150 yrs. It is not time, it is way past time to have the conversation. And you can’t have the conversation if you don’t actually talk about it. Now you may have to choose your words well, to get any real conversation going but at some point one has to just be blunt. We want a better country, hell a better human race, then we have to talk about where we are, where we are headed if we don’t change and where we might/will be if we do. And that means that the bigots will be marginalized because that’s been the real problem, they aren’t now marginalized, they’ve managed to keep a lot of the rest of the country marginalized. We voted to elect a black man to president, twice. It is time to carry on that concept that race, gender, even religion or money is not the problem, hate is.
Cacti
@Ruckus:
This election is going to tell us a lot about who were are as a country.
I’m afraid of what the answer might be.
Corner Stone
@Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap:
I’ve been asking the people who are completely outraged at Kaepernick (and Obama’s very even-handed statement they say as a balls out endorsement) where they were when the unarmed person was killed?
To a person, to a fucking person, they respond back with some variant of “they were guilty of something”.
Hummmm…strange.
Corner Stone
@NR:
Find me someone who just now decided they were not going to vote for HRC due to this statement and I will show you someone who was never going to vote for HRC, ever, and just needed something to articulate out loud why.
henqiguai
@Cacti(#255):
“Starting to think”?! I would suggest it was a thought out and *scripted* comment. Was that not the whole purpose to the speech? Unclutch those pearls and unclench that sphincter.
NR
@Miss Bianca:
Perfect example of the quality discourse I’ve come to expect at BJ. You guys really never change.
“Those assholes” aren’t the issue, everyone else is. Lots of people have family members who are going to vote for Trump. And the message is now going to be “Do you really want to vote for someone who called your father/grandfather/aunt/sister/whoever a racist?”
Frankensteinbeck
@Ruckus:
This conversation has been had before – but Reagan’s signature accomplishment, the fuel for his conservative revolution, was shoving it back in a box. Whites flocked to his call that accusing anyone of racism was unthinkably rude and unfair. Now it’s coming out again, because the racists themselves don’t want cover. They demand to be out and proud.
Turgidson
Hillary’s only mistake was to use the word “half” in saying that many of Trump’s supporters can be classified as deplorables/racists, etc. Not an inaccuracy, mind you, but a tactical mistake. That’s what the Hillary haters and the MSM (but I repeat myself) will clutch with their pearls as they collapse onto their fainting couches. It’s the hook they can use to make the highly inaccurate comparison to Willard Mitt “Mittens” Romney’s 47% comment.
If she had just used some vague word – portion, segment, whatever – to make the same point, it might have passed by unnoticed. But now we have a new shiny object to replace her damn emails (which the WaPo, at least, might have finally put away with that OpEd), I fear. At the very least, Trump’s surrogates will answer every fucking question they get, about anything, by saying “but OMG HIllary Deplorables!” Hopefully the Clinton Campaign has a plan for this that I’m not seeing.
Ampersand
Wow, I was thrilled to read these comments from Hillary. I hope that she continues being this aggressive.
If anything, “half” is an understatement. It would be easy to use certain voter-related surveys to show just how crazy they are. The percentage that are birthers, etc.
different-church-lady
@NR: Maybe they need, at long long last, to face up to the fact that their father/grandfather/aunt/sister/whoever is a racist.
catclub
@Citizen_X: In the 1920’s the KKK was the establishment. Not just in the south, either.
henqiguai
@Frankensteinbeck(#265):
Nope, you’ve got it backwards. Reagan made it, once again, *safe* to come out of the closet on the openly racist attitudes and behaviors, which had been trending more toward something to be discouraged. Of course, I’m black, grew up in an urban center, and was around for Jim Crow so I think I have some hands-on experience, but maybe your mileage varies.
Cacti
@different-church-lady:
Ding ding ding ding ding!
Trump’s crass bigotry is the reason he’s set to be the first Republican in 60 years to lose the college educated white vote.
debbie
@Matt McIrvin:
Anyone who says that isn’t going on is a liar, which is why I don’t think it needed to be said.
Brachiator
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
What if were more than half? Insisting on waffling, downplaying or excessive concern about the feelings of bigots and their fellow travelers undercuts Clinton’s central message. Like the song says,
How many goons are supporters of Trump?
How many bigots in all?
The answer, my friend,
Is blowing in the wind,
The answer is blowing in the wind.
amk
@NR:
With that kinda idiotic logic, no wonder bs lost.
Cacti
@amk:
Like a good class reductionist, Bernie truly believed in his campus radical’s heart that a $15.00 minimum wage was the solution to racism.
NR
@different-church-lady: Yes, I’m sure that this comment will be the catalyst for that. I’m sure that they’ll decide they finally need to have a calm, rational discussion with their family members about their attitudes toward race. I’m sure that they won’t get even a little bit upset, angry, and defensive about their family members being attacked.
Can you really honestly believe that what you said is going to happen after thinking for even a little while about human nature?
debbie
@JPL:
Since she said it, she needs to keep saying it. Not back off because of the inevitable reaction of the Trump supporters.
NR
@amk: Yes, it’s all Bernie’s fault that Hillary just said something incredibly stupid that is very likely going to cost her the election.
You guys are really pathetic.
Omnes Omnibus
Good for her. I am not going to quibble about her wording because I am sure the exact words were chosen carefully. If she wanedt to say many or quite a few, she would have done so.
Cacti
@NR:
He’s talking about you, champ.
The funny part is, you think of yourself a progressive revolutionary type.
different-church-lady
@NR: Keep on this path, and I’m sticking you in the basket too.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@NR: You sure seem to be upset about this, did it hit too close to home maybe?
hovercraft
A man gets up at the front of the room, calling the president weak and useless. The crowd chants he’s a muslim, go back to Kenya, traitor. The candidate basks in the glow of their anger. He then berates his opponent as corrupt, weak, crooked. The crowd roars, bitch, arrest her, string her up. Again he stands there basking in their rage and hate. His opponent then gets up in front of her supporters, and calls those people at her opponents rallies, deplorable and irredeemable. The press goes nuts, every reporter and opiner is reaching for their fainting couch, not over the calls for her execution or the sexism screamed about her, no they are up in arms about the fact that she pointed out their deplorable behavior and attitudes. This is why America can’t have nice things, we have a useless press. I propose that phase one of the JADE HELM / FEMA roundup, we should round up the media first.
Cacti
@different-church-lady:
He never has anything negative to say about Trump or the GOP, so you’re probably on the mark.
NR
@Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap: I love it. Say Hillary did something stupid = “You’re a racist!”
Like I said, you guys are pathetic.
NR
@different-church-lady: Oh noes! However will I go on???
different-church-lady
@NR: Exactly as you always do, I suspect.
Omnes Omnibus
@NR:
You’ll probably continue on as the same tool (witting or unwitting) of the GOP that you have always been.
amk
@Cacti:
Oh, it’s a trumpista alright.
NR
@Omnes Omnibus: Nah, the tools of the GOP are the ones who were stupid enough to nominate the only candidate who could possibly lose to Donald Trump.
different-church-lady
@NR: Ah, so I was right then.
Omnes Omnibus
@NR: You call the majority of Democratic primary voters tools of the GOP and then suggest that HRC’s statement was stupid? Okay, right then.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@NR:
So you’re saying that given the current demographics of the Democrats many black, Hispanic, and gay folks are stupid. I’d say you fit right in that basket.
catclub
Depressing read on further followup on Mossack-Fonseca documents.
But worthwhile.
Chyron HR
@NR:
I’m still not sure which of us you’re trying to convince.
NR
@Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap: Yep, here we go. You can’t actually counter anything I’m saying, so you just start screaming “You’re a racist!”
Pathetic.
Shalimar
@NR: We already know our father/grandfather/aunt/sister/whatever are racists. Have known for decades.
When Hillary says half of Trump supporters are racists, we start counting family members and assume half is way too low
Wapiti
@Ruckus:
Not the bulk of the MSM press corps, that’s for certain.
NR
@Shalimar: Maybe that’s what you do. But there are a lot of people out there who are going to hear this as an attack on their family and aren’t going to like it one bit.
Shalimar
@NR: Bullshit. She said half of Trump supporters, which means half aren’t racist by her formulation. Unless you already have suspicions about Uncle Fred, there is no reason to assume she means him in the bad half.
Chyron HR
@NR:
Well, no, apparently your FAMILY are racists, and you’re defending them.
ruemara
@Bobby Thomson: The facesaving out is to not double down in support because your goddamned feelings count more than the fact that you are supporting a violent white supremacist American Hitler who would bring misery and destruction on anyone who isn’t Christian and can’t pass a paper bag test. You’re not getting the fact that this pretense of some soft way to convince people hatred & bile is not nice just doesn’t work, do you?
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@Chyron HR: Be careful now, you don’t want to be called pathetic.
Chyron HR
Also, nobody should point out that NR, a guy who’s constantly insisting that he only cares about polls and hard data, is now arguing that Clinton will lose the election based solely on his personal feelings.
That would be terribly RUDE of you.
NR
@Shalimar: Sure, if people were perfectly logical, that’s how it would work.
But in reality, emotions drive people to a huge extent. And lots of people are going to assume that their family members belong in the people described in the second half of Hillary’s statement, but are the target of the first half. And they are going to react emotionally, and negatively.
Shalimar
@Chyron HR: Today is emotional day in his universe. Maybe tomorrow will be logical day and he can find some polls.
different-church-lady
@NR:
If they have a handful of functioning brain cells, they will not assume that.
It’s only when someone is utterly determined to concern troll that such a conclusion would be appear logical.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
NR
@different-church-lady:
I just got through saying it’s not logical. But guess what? People very often don’t draw conclusions based on logic. Close personal connections–especially family–are driven by emotions, not logic.You step into that and you are playing with fire. As Hillary is about to find out.
different-church-lady
@NR: Then they weren’t going to vote for her anyway.
Are we done here?
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Omnes Omnibus: HRC: “You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the ‘basket of deplorables’. Right?”
Alexandre Dumas Père: “All generalizations are dangerous, even this one.”
;-)
Cheers,
Scott.
ding
@Cacti:
Last chance to appeal to North Carolina’s non-deplorable Republicans since absentee voting started yesterday
NR
@different-church-lady:
They might have, before she (from their point of view) attacked their family members.
different-church-lady
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: Ce n’est pas une déclaration catégorique.
different-church-lady
@NR: OK, look trolly: she gave ’em an option — believe they belong in camp one, or camp two. You conveniently throw out the choice offered, assume everyone will make the worst emotional decision they can, blame us for it, and then growl with your chew toy in your mouth until we’re all sick of you. Seems like an odd way to spend your life, but you gotta be you.
Ruckus
@Cacti:
You can’t change what you don’t know. And you might just be surprised at the answer. It could go either way. But there is a number of whites, even some who are old, who don’t agree with anything about Trump or his supporters in any way. You get enough of them and the vast majority of minorities to agree with you and positive change is inevitable, if painful, as getting rid of a cancer always is.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@different-church-lady: rofl.
Language is fun. Beware of Ludwig!.
Cheers,
Scott.
Shalimar
@NR: and some people might listen to her appeal and be motivated to vote for her. You don’t have a clue how many people are in each group. Given campaign,tendency to poll the shit out of anything remotely controversial, I am guessing they do have a general idea of how this will appeal.
NR
@different-church-lady:
Everyone doesn’t have to make that choice. It only takes a swing of 5% or so to put Trump in the White House.
daves09
@Corner Stone: Yeah, let’s not forget *welfare queens*
those people picking up their foodstamps in *their* cadillacs and spending it on steak and lobster. Reagan was a mean old shit.
different-church-lady
@NR: And what if the swing goes the other way?
Ruckus
@henqiguai:
I find that I have a lot to say but every time I do it ends up sounding like whitesplaining. To me. So I will say that humans are creatures of both habit and experience. We learn by doing and doing and doing. We have the capacity to learn other ways but we learn most things by doing. And if we are doing it wrong, we learn that. Lots of us have learned it wrong despite the overwhelming evidence that it is.
Nominus
Took me a while to find it, because some black people called it back in February of this year:
Scroll up and read the whole thing.
White people can wring their hands about confronting their terribly racist families, but they’re stressing over nothing. The revolution is going to move on without them, it might as well start now….or did those liberals talking about demographic shifts think they were going to surf the top of that wave and somehow protect their ugly Facebook community members and their deplorable beliefs?
NR
@different-church-lady: I don’t see that happening, but I guess we’ll find out.
Keith G
@Cacti: Agreed. It was a stupid comment for Hils to make. Keep the frickin heat on Trump and Don’t. Punch. Down. Jesus…how moronic.
Although…it does take emails off the front page….
@workworkwork:
Of course …push back hard….but not the way she did. This was guaranteed to become a thing with the focus on the wrong issue. The best way to deal with children is to act in a way that is smarter than the children.
ruemara
Shorter on this thread: onoes! how can you point out the hateful bigotry when if you’re nice, they may decide to suddenly play nice again! Despite no actual sign that anything short of a wholesale slaughter of minorities on a fucking tv camera seems to be adequate for them to distance themselves from the Nazi. My disgust, it is fully earned. yeah, HRC is stupid. You smart ones on here sure know a thing or two about winning elections. Don’t know why you’re not the campaign team.
sukabi
@NR: the flip side of that is: “are you really voting for someone who would have your mother, sister, brother, father, aunt, uncle, grandma & or pa deported. Someone who would deny your wife, daughter, mother the right to make her own medical decisions, ect…?
And the answer to that is, if they’ve been voting ® they’ve been voting for exactly that.
Brachiator
@NR:
Maybe you can work out a deal to rent Obama’s time machine, you know, the one he used to travel back in time to plant his birth certificate in Hawaii. You could go back to the early primary season and help Bernie Sanders get a clue and make himself into a winning candidate.
But it might be easier to hang out with those posters who love to pop in and endlessly prattle on about how Obama could have got us the public option, another bunch of nimrods stuck in time or an alternate reality.
Keith G
@ruemara:
That’s a bullshit argument. First, if someone is saying HRC is stupid, I missed it. I think her choice was moronic, not the totality of her being. Even very successfull candidates can make stuuupid decisions that make their struggles all the more challenging. Like I said…keep the heat (and the news cycle) on the pile of dangerous ineptitude that is the faudster Trump. Sideshows like this become their own thing – a distraction from where the focus should be.
Bobby Thomson
Her update this afternoon was pitch perfect.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Bobby Thomson: It’s clear that she read this thread. ;-)”
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
Applejinx
I worked really hard for Bernie, and I like Hillary for this.
And my brother, who has always been a Bernie or Buster, has come around (in part because of things like this). I need to go unmute the other guy and check on him. I refused to ever unfriend or mute my brother no matter how maddening it was. I think we can be all on the same page. It’s the ‘fuck siding with history’s monsters’ page, and it really truly does mean something that Hillary is prepared to take sides also.
She doesn’t HAVE to do this. I’m sure the polling said ‘ooooh, some people will be offended, and the MSM will hit the fainting couches’. I like this ‘new’ Hillary.
Bobby Thomson
@ruemara: my idea was basically exactly what she just did.
Keith G
@Bobby Thomson: @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: She has learned a good lesson from earlier…ahmmm…events. Get out in front with a clear and sincere acknowledgement of a bad choice.
Frankensteinbeck
@henqiguai:
For this one, I will stand up with my experience, because it applies. I grew up white around the cusp of the 70s and 80s. Before Reagan, whites might call other whites racist for the shit you described. After, if you didn’t use the word ‘nigger’ it was rude to call it racism. If you did, it was a rare, isolated case not to be talked about, or maybe you just thought you could because blacks do. He didn’t put racism in a box, but for us, he sure put the conversation about it off bounds.
Matt McIrvin
@Bobby Thomson:
Ha ha, she didn’t say if she was high or low.
sukabi
@Matt McIrvin: caught that too, lol
She’s probably been deluged with some pretty deplorable emails and is thinking 89 – 95% at this point.
This boil needed to be lanced, time to drain it so it doesn’t infect the entire country.
henqiguai
@Frankensteinbeck(#334):
Yeah, I actually saw that. But my experiences were to have to deal with suddenly empowered whites who thought they were free to let their freak flag fly; didn’t really work out that well on an individual basis. But the constant innuendo to outright racist commentary, including from Reagan, was a constant annoyance. Things like ‘young bucks…’ and ‘welfare queens’ were really really tiresome. Especially when the bulk of the ‘offenders’ were white; when there was an actual offense to be tallied.
sukabi
@Matt McIrvin: her follow up tweet was awesome...
sukabi
@sukabi: ok, in moderation, was trying to edit to put tweet in context…
gogol's wife
@different-church-lady:
Then you won’t see your interlocutor around here at all.
Bobby Thomson
@Matt McIrvin: Exactly. That’s why it was perfect.