This is just a quick pointer to the essential read of the day. If Kurt Eichenwald’s brutal, beautiful story on the Trump Organization’s seemingly limitless overseas conflicts of interest with US policy doesn’t become the dominant campaign story for the day and much longer, then, again, we’ll know who and what our media are.
One of the best minor pleasures of this deeply important piece is the way Eichenwald brutally dismisses the false equivalence crap that so many in the press promise us doesn’t exist. A sample:
The Trump Organization is not like the Bill, Hillary & Chelsea Clinton Foundation, the charitable enterprise that has been the subject of intense scrutiny about possible conflicts for the Democratic presidential nominee. There are allegations that Hillary Clinton bestowed benefits on contributors to the foundation in some sort of “pay to play” scandal when she was secretary of state, but that makes no sense because there was no “pay.” Money contributed to the foundation was publicly disclosed and went to charitable efforts, such as fighting neglected tropical diseases that infect as many as a billion people. The financials audited by PricewaterhouseCoopers, the global independent accounting company, and the foundation’s tax filings show that about 90 percent of the money it raised went to its charitable programs. (Trump surrogates have falsely claimed that it was only 10 percent and that the rest was used as a Clinton “slush fund.”) No member of the Clinton family received any cash from the foundation, nor did it finance any political campaigns. In fact, like the Clintons, almost the entire board of directors works for free.
On the other hand, the Trump family rakes in untold millions of dollars from the Trump Organization every year.
Much of that comes from deals with international financiers and developers, many of whom have been tied to controversial and even illegal activities. None of Trump’s overseas contractual business relationships examined by Newsweek were revealed in his campaign’s financial filings with the Federal Election Commission, nor was the amount paid to him by his foreign partners.
That should (but probably won’t) leave a mark in a certain building on 8th Ave between 40th and 41st st.
One more sample, just to get a sense of how utterly at odds with US national interest a Trump presidency would be:
With Middle Eastern business partners and American allies turning on him, Trump lashed out. Prince Alwaleed bin Talal—the billionaire who aided Trump during his corporate bankruptcies in the 1990s by purchasing his yacht, which provided him with desperately needed cash—sent out a tweet amid the outcry in Dubai, calling the Republican candidate a “disgrace.” (Alwaleed is a prodigious tweeter and Twitter’s second largest shareholder.) Trump responded with an attack on the prince—a member of the ruling Saudi royal family—with a childish tweet, saying, “Dopey Prince @Alwaleed_Talal wants to control our U.S. politicians with daddy’s money. Can’t do it when I get elected. #Trump2016.”
Once again, Trump’s personal and financial interests are in conflict with critical national security issues for the United States. During the Bush administration, Abu Dhabi, the UAE’s capital, and Washington reached a bilateral agreement to improve international standards for nuclear nonproliferation. Cooperation is particularly important for the United States because Iran—whose potential development of nuclear weapons has been a significant security issue, leading to an international agreement designed to place controls on its nuclear energy efforts—is one of the UAE’s largest trading partners, and Dubai has been a transit point for sensitive technology bound for Iran.
Given Trump’s name-calling when faced with a critical tweet from a member of the royal family in Saudi Arabia, an important ally, how would he react as president if his company’s business in the UAE collapsed? Would his decisions in the White House be based on what is best for America or on what would keep the cash from Dubai flowing to him and his family?
There’s tons more at the link — and yet Eichenwald says, correctly, that this article only scratches the surface. This is (truly) disqualifying stuff, folks. That it almost surely won’t drive Trump from the race is an indictment of him, his party, and a political process, shaped in part by a flawed media culture. That just leaves us as a last line of defense.
You know, voters.
The common clay…
[Had to leave that hanging curve out for the Balloon Juice Jackals, right?]Seriously. Eichenwald has done really important work here. Go read what he’s found, then get it out to everyone you can.
Image: Marius Granet, A Peasant Girl Buying an Indulgence, 1825
Gin & Tonic
I’ve been following Eichenwald’s Twitter feed, and made the mistake last night of looking at some of the replies to his Tweets, after which I felt that two showers wouldn’t be enough. I’m not new to the Internet, I know what its darker corners are like, but wow. Just wow.
J.
Sadly, these revelations will not change the minds of any of Trump’s diehard supporters (who don’t read Newsweek and disavow anything written or said about Trump in the MSM, unless it’s something positive about their guy). As long as Trump has an R attached to his name, and keeps appearing on the TV, people (the deplorable the better) will vote for him. But thanks for discussing and linking to the Eichenwald piece. Hadn’t seen it.
Poopyman
@J.: I DON’T CARE about Trump’s diehard supports. I really do want to see what the rest of the media does with this, and whether people who are more interested in the country than their party will be swayed.
JMG
Any member of the media who reads the comments threads on their own organization’s Websites KNOWS that a nontrivial percentage of Americans aren’t deplorable, they’re loathsome — enemies to all mankind. But they’re not allowed to say so because those scum are customers.
Wapiti
The conflict of interest would be simple to resolve. Once elected President, Trump will recuse himself from any foreign and domestic issues, having VP Pence make decisions. President Trump will give huge speeches at rallies and otherwise spend his time managing his private affairs. /sarcasm, I wish.
D58826
I have been scimming my tweeter feed to see the reaction and so far not much. Certainly no where near the hysteria of the Hillary death watch’ on Sunday. Chuckles Todd has it listed as 3rd or 4th one of a number of stores for today, Not mentioned on the NYT morning brief. Sidebar mention on daily beast but a big story on the other Clinton foundation (the one that supports the ballet and local volunteer fire companies). Huffington and KOS have it listed. Still lots of links to Hillary’s health.
hovercraft
@J.:
True, die hards are die hards. But if the media does it’s damn job, then it will influence the people in the middle. This should lead every news broadcast for the next week. Unfortunately Trump’s will he or won’t he medical records release, will be a big chew toy today.
J.
@Poopyman: I suspect that the media will do nothing, or very little, about this. But I hope they prove me wrong. (And I only bring up Trump’s supporters because when all is said and done, it’s the vote that matters. And apparently there are a lot of deplorables out there, more than I thought, or there seem to be, who are going to vote for Trump, facts and findings be damned.)
J.
@hovercraft: Agreed. Good point.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
I already read it. I heard last night on Rachel Maddow that it would be coming out this morning.
Ghost of Joe Liebling's Dog
I’m sorry, Tom, but I think we already do.
Betty Cracker
I know the expectation among the (justifiably) cynical is that this important story won’t gain traction. I think it will. Working the refs actually works sometimes, and at least some of the “respectable” media is stung by the criticism rained down on their heads over how they’ve covered Clinton and Trump.
If I’m wrong, we’ll know soon enough, but this is a complex story with lots of trailing vines, i.e., follow up opportunities. I’m gonna give it a few days before concluding that Trump will skate.
Tom Levenson
@Betty Cracker: That’s where I stand. Eichenwald himself says at the end of the piece that there’s much more to be uncovered than he could fit into one piece — event at its considerable length.
Basically, this is a last-chance make-up test for the media. I hope they pass.
magurakurin
It won’t matter, this article. People will just shrug it off and say Clinton does all the same stuff….even though she doesn’t..at all. And the hippies up in Portland, Oregon will keep having drum circles to decide if they should vote for Stein or Johnson. They are so deep in their white privileged enclave that they honestly believe they will survive the coming fascism just like the hobbits in the Shire. It will come down to people of color and those of us white folk who either aren’t insane or aren’t so insulated in protective little enclaves to understand the danger we are facing. And we will prevail in spite of the massive stupidity among white people on both the left and the right.
Major Major Major Major
But I heard that there’s a new
Kremlin“Guccifer” dump of Democrats’ emails showing ‘PAY FOR PLAY’, so, both sides.Gin & Tonic
@Betty Cracker: Now, according to the Twitter machine, his appearance on the charlatan Oz’s show will *not* involve in any way his medical records or his physical. Media fell for his bullshit once more, just like Charlie Brown.
Oh, and he is supposedly appearing with his daughter, not his wife. Incidentally, does anyone have proof that Melania is still alive? I thought that after that RNC speech embarrassment he had her killed and buried the body under the sub-basement of Trump Tower. It would be irresponsible not to speculate.
hovercraft
@D58826:
Part of the problem is that it’s a complicated story, and conflict of interest doesn’t sound as sexy as pay-to-play. The media should brand him as bought and paid for by foreign interest.
Dadadadadadada
@Wapiti: You think that’s sarcasm, but that is exactly what Trump himself has proposed. When asked a couple weeks ago, he claimed that as president, he would delegate “foreign and domestic policy” to his VP and other “top people [the best, just the best, fantastic people, believe me],” leaving himself in charge of nothing but “making America great again.”
Once again, Trump outruns mockery; he’s saying all the stupid parodies of his own positions before the satirists do.
ETA: I’m not calling you or your mockery stupid. Trump is the stupid one.
Miss Bianca
@magurakurin: Yeah, if I recall correctly, the hobbits in the Shire didn’t exactly survive unscathed…not that the white earth-mama power stomp brigade will draw the necessary lessons from literature…
JPL
@Tom Levenson: CNN and a few network shows, mentioned it this morning. The problem appears to be longevity. They feel that they did their duty to the public, and now will return to Hillary’s health.
What does everyone think about Trump now saying the Dr. Oz show is not about his medical tests?
ruemara
@magurakurin: they will. Because they’re white and they’re well off. And they know it will hit POC & LGBTQ folks first and harder. And they think we need to be punished for insufficient fealty to the mediocre messiah, Sanders. We’re allowed to be part of progressive utopia, as long as we defer to the natural superiority of these woke, deeply spiritual, more progressive warriors. The heirs of the Civil Rights movement, with breaks for slackline yoga.
Ruckus
@Wapiti:
That may be sarcasm (which is obvious) but does anyone think that other than it being actual work requiring actual thought that Trump will give up power to Pence? He’s Donnie, he’s large and in charge. I say, make no mistake, if Trump is elected he will be in charge. He can’t help himself, and who else is going to be able to tell him anything? And of course Pence is probably less capable than Trump. Maybe not as big an ego but just as big of a fuck up.
Aleta
If he had applied as a noncandidate citizen for an upper level security clearance, it seems like he would not have gotten one. But as a candidate or as a President, he has access to classified info. What are the safeguards in the system against this kind of situation being a threat? And, is it likely our intelligence agencies have been aware of this all along but have had to stay quiet? Or would they be watching his overseas connections to track their connections, all along?
Dadadadadadada
@JPL: Well, the Dr. Oz show has never been about real medicine, so it’s in keeping with that ethos that Trump’s appearance will not be about medical tests.
cervantes
Nada about this in the New York Times, CBS, CNN — I haven’t looked any further yet, but I’m not expecting anything different.
Betty Cracker
@Gin & Tonic: Just saw that news about no big health reveal on the Dr. Quack show at CNN:
So what did the physical reveal, that a 70-year-old man who subsists on fried foods is overweight, has sky-high cholesterol and is a good candidate to drop dead soon?
Melania has gone underground ever since Trump claimed she would hold a press conference to clear up questions raised about the photo shoot dated prior to her obtaining a green card. Media outlets should reprogram their “days without a Clinton press conference” counter to track how long it’s been since a Melania sighting.
JPL
@hovercraft: If the media chose to just concentrate on the Turkey connection, it could be easy to explain. By this time, most people are aware of the conflict with the Kurds, and the fact that we a military interest in Turkey.
Major Major Major Major
@Aleta: It’s my understanding that there are no such safeguards other than the primary process, and that this is a feature, not a bug.
magurakurin
@Miss Bianca: yeah, but Peter Jackson left that part out of the movie.
Keith P.
@JPL: Not surprised at all. Another bait and switch, much like the tax records. This obfuscation better get the same kind of coverage that Pneumonia-gate got.
Ruckus
@Dadadadadadada:
I like that we led with the same thought. Bright minds and all that.
CaseyL
The fortuitous thing about spending 30 years vilifying the Clintons over imaginary scandals is that it not only smeared the Clintons, it also inoculated the actual murderous parasites via false equivalency.
The Trump candidacy is one yyyuge play-for-pay, and his best customers are nations and entities the US is at least suspicious of, if not actually hostile to.
It really is “W” all over again, but even worse.
Amir Khalid
My first reaction was, “Add it to the pile.” Eichenwald’s story is indeed thorough and damning. It’s just that hovercraft’s “people in the middle” (#7) gave up on the Donald long ago. Since then — well, Donald’s said and done many thoroughly reported and damning things in this presidential cycle, and he’s still standing.
@Wapiti:
As I remember, this was exactly the division of labour that Donald Sr. had Donald Jr. propose to then VP prospect John Kasich: Kasich would be in charge of domestic and foreign policy, President Donald Sr. would be in charge of travelling the country and Making America Great Again.
magurakurin
@ruemara: well, I’m with you. Not all us white folk are thus blinded. We’re gonna get this done and dusted. Trump is gonna lose, but I for one will remember well and truly who did and didn’t help.
Corner Stone
@Betty Cracker: I’m not fabulously wealthy but when I had bloodwork done a while back my Dr’s office called me that afternoon and told me to make certain changes based on results. I’m not sure why it takes a week?
JMG
Even if this story receives major coverage (it won’t, not on TV), it will have no impact. Voters think all rich people operate like this.
Punchy
Have a OT question: WTF is going on in Colorado w/r/t Trump’s poll numbers? HRC was up ~10 points a month ago. Now Trump’s up ~4? Huh? Are they only polling Colly Springs?
Kay
I wish Clinton would release her health records so we can watch them equate “records” with Trump’s reality tv appearance. Again.
I feel like this has to be documented for later review. Obviously they can’t make him turn over any records of anything, but it’s unreal how we’re watching this massive systemic failure in real time. This is history-making, folks.
Dadadadadadada
@Aleta: If one Barack Hussein Obama, private citizen, had applied for such a clearance, he likely would have been turned down as well, due to having one non-citizen parent and spending many years living outside the US. The sword cuts both ways.
Although, the cases are a bit different; Trump’s disqualifications stem from active decisions that he made as an adult, while Obama’s are due to decisions made by his parents long before he achieved majority age. So, once again, there’s a double standard in Trump’s favor, and he still can’t measure up.
Redshift
@Betty Cracker:
Oh, but today she released a letter from her lawyer stating that he’d reviewed her immigration history and it was all perfectly legal. So that’s all cleared up.
D58826
Lead story on CNN – trump’s healtrh and Dr. Oz
lead story on HLN – what to do with the wh china if Hillary wins
lead story on MSNBC – Trump’s health and a bit on the NY AG investigation of the Trump foundation but m ost health
load story on fox – evil Obama
leadstory on GMA apparantly was Invanka. She said that Trump would put the business in a blind trust run by the kids.
In the meantime Nate Silver is beginning to worry that the polls are beginning to look like the BREXIT polls prior to the vote. Slight lead for stay (Hillary) but win for exit (Trump).
Kay
@CaseyL:
I don’t think they can fix it. It takes months to investigate someone. They don’t have months. If they pulled the whole crew off Hillary Health Scare they still couldn’t get the work done.
Amir Khalid
@Corner Stone:
Turnaround time on a blood test depends on the backlog, if any, at the lab. For the Donald, they could easily clear the decks and report back on an early-morning test before tea break (if you have such a thing in America).
magurakurin
@Amir Khalid: coffee break, brother coffee break. We threw the tea in the Boston Harbor long, long ago.
magurakurin
@D58826: not sure what to make of Nate this cycle. I don’t know if he is playing a game or calling it straight. Tending to want to believe Sam Wang is right about all this, but only time will tell I guess.
Kay
Trump will get the dopes to provide blanket coverage of the Oz appearance, where he will discuss Clinton’s health.
Did we ever find out if Ailes was running his campaign, or was that dropped too?
Betty Cracker
@Corner Stone: That is weird. But we don’t know who did the exam. If it was that oddball who produced the letter, who knows what he said and what was revealed in the actual test results? Just judging from the actions of Trump’s minions, something happened between when they originally booked the Dr. Quack show and this morning. Raises questions! Clouds and shadows!
danielx
@J.:
All too true. There are also a number of Trump supporters like the one in West Virginia (wish I could find the link) who are so desperate for change they’ll vote for for the hellbeast even though they know what a doucherocket he is. Then there are those who aren’t desperate, know he’s a complete disaster as a candidate and human being, and are resolved to vote for him anyway because, hey, it’s fun to light matches in a powder magazine to see what happens, or some such.
Betty Cracker
@Punchy: The only certainty is that pants-pissing doomsayers like NR will crawl out of the woodwork to say “Doom!”
Kay
You have to laugh. What else can you do? It’s weird because I actually thought there were more checks and balances. I never had to consider a complete, sequential collapse.
Major Major Major Major
@magurakurin: Nate was never especially competent at electoral math, just the first person to average a bunch of numbers and call it a prediction. Now you have that, plus his paycheck depends on clickbait headlines and clickbait articles and clickbait projections, PLUS he sucks as a pundit.
nonynony
@Aleta:
The voters aren’t supposed to elect a security threat to high office. That’s pretty much the safeguards that we’ve got.
It’s funny to me how involved the scheme was in The Manchurian Candidate. All of the brainwashing and whatnot to get a puppet into high office and it turns out that all you need is a reality TV game show host whose ego can be played like a violin. Once again showing that the bar for believably in fiction is higher than in reality I guess.
Poopyman
@Aleta:
Probably not. If any intelligence analyst ever dreamed up a President Trump scenario they would have just shaken it off and attributed it to bad tequila.
comrade scott's agenda of rage
@JPL:
This is how the WaPo has justified, ie, skated, it’s craptastic political coverage since 2000, Farenthold’s work this cycle notwithstanding. Back in the last decade, me and Doug would routinely troll their reporter’s Q&A with questions about coverage, false equivalency, etc. The standard response would be to point to one piece they did and say “See? We reported on something so stfu you hippie and let us get back to stenography as usual.”
I don’t see that changing. All you need to read is Cilizza everyday and see nothing’s changed.
Poopyman
@Dadadadadadada:
Not at all. There are many foreign-born citizens with TS/SCI clearances.
ETA: US citizens, that is.
ruemara
@Major Major Major Major: Someone also pointed out he’s been doing some talks to republicans. Idk. Maybe money changes things. I think he’s not the best at predictive models, just analysis that sounds good.
Betty Cracker
@Redshift: The laugh out loud part was when the lawyer disclosed that he had not previously represented Melania Trump but does represent Trump Models and Trump Miss Universe.
Kay
@Aleta:
Ivanka says the safeguard is that they’re a private company so can act against their own financial interests.
In other words, the safeguard is we have to trust this socialite who none of us had ever heard of prior to 12 months ago. I don’t know one thing about Ivanka Trump other than what Ivanka Trump says.
Remarkable, I agree, but that is where we are.
JMG
If Trump wins, it will be because a significant percentage of white people who believe he has no business being President picked him anyway to show that white men rule, baby. That’ll be true if he loses, too, of course.
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
@Dadadadadadada: That’s BS. The minute some guy from the UAE, India, Russia, or where-ever calls and says Pence decided X and that’s going to cost the Trump Organization a shit-ton of money if you don’t reverse the decision, Trump will re-decide the issue in the direction of his own financial interests.
magurakurin
@ruemara: It seems like at some point Nate switch from being a straight up numbers guy to deciding on the need for a “special sauce” to adjust poll numbers. Sam Wang is standing by the best thing to do is feed in the raw data, come up with averages and run statistical calculations on that. But it has zero sex appeal. Nate is tweeking poll numbers based on a number of factors that are in his model and it seems to produce a lot more volatility. I don’t know. But until I see the numbers for Wisconsin and PA fall, I’m not going to worry. Probably time to send a little more money to Clinton, though. She’ll need it when she gets back into the game on Thursday.
Major Major Major Major
@ruemara: me too. I mean his background is a BA and being a baseball statistics hobbyist. Sam Wang is a celebrated neuroscientist who teaches at Princeton.
Also Nate’s book on predictions was meh.
Kay
I laughed when I read Trump’s plan to finance the socialite’s child care plan. Waste, fraud and abuse!
Imagine if Clinton said she would finance a new social program based on savings from “waste, fraud and abuse”
How weird is it that it only applies to women, too. It’s unheard of within the Trump family for fathers to take care of children? Gross.
The Dangerman
@Kay:
They could. They wouldn’t ever do so, of course, but they could.
Major Major Major Major
@magurakurin: nobody will ever know because Nate doesn’t tell you anything about how his model works. Wang’s is open-source.
Wang had a blog post last month about the differences in their models and basically said any predictive model that changes as much as Silver’s is not a predictive model.
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
@JMG: Aren’t the Clintons rich? I mean, if the public thinks it’s OK for rich people to act like this, and the Clintons are rich, then, why are they criticized for sort of maybe kind of well it looks like they didn’t do anything wrong but it kind of looks bad anyway behavior? It seems like every other rich person on the planet is above criticism, except the Clintons.
JMG
@What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?: Because the Clintons are Democratic politicians who got rich. Any rich pol who didn’t get rich in business before running for office is a crook. Everybody knows that, just like they know Trump’s a good businessman.
Patricia Kayden
@Gin & Tonic: I’m sure Melania will be his ex-wife #3 by the time Trump is inaugurated.
@D58826: Silver is keeping it real. The polls are way too close on the national level. Sigh.
magurakurin
@Major Major Major Major: I read that post as well. It seemed like the upshot was, Nate is doing a snapshot and Sam Wang felt there probably is a place for such a thing, but as you said, it isn’t predictive.
Kay
@The Dangerman:
Well, sure they could. It’s interesting how the standard for the Trump Family is “trust us”, though.
I don’t know the first thing about any of these people. This to me is a really good example of privilege. Ivanka never had to back anything up. That’s not part of how she interacts with the world. That’s what privilege is- “I’m acceptable because I was born to it”.
Bobby Thomson
@Ghost of Joe Liebling’s Dog: well, I think most of us did. Others appear to be learning.
Bobby Thomson
@Tom Levenson: I think the next six months will be critical.
JMG
@magurakurin: Fivethirtyeight’s numbers are strongly affected by its pollster reliability ratings. Seltzer gets like the highest grade, so today’s Ohio poll affects the Clinton and Trump win percentages accordingly. For some reason, the Ipsos weekly 50 state ratings, with their very small samples, also get an A, Other Internet polls do not. Why? Ask him.
OzarkHillbilly
@The Dangerman: I would say they’ve been doing it that way for years. After all, wasn’t Donald running things?
Mike R
The turn around time on blood tests is interesting. When my physicals happen at the V.A. blood is drawn in the morning and the Doctor visit is later in the day and the results are already known to the Doctor. Gosh what is wrong with the private sector, if even the V.A. is faster(actually almost across the board my experience with the V.A. is on a par with or better than my private sector experience). Oh wait, the guy is hiding something, he is really Mr. Hanky.
Major Major Major Major
@magurakurin: except, as I recall, Wang wasn’t referring to the snapshot, he was talking about Silver’s November prediction.
ETA: that’s what made it a sick burn
Tom Levenson
@Bobby Thomson: Well played.
The Dangerman
@Kay:
I know. Doesn’t that Family just scream altruism? I’m being sarcastic people. The whole lot of them are sick in the head.
ETA: For whomever said I could still vote in CA on the road by downloading a ballot, not at all the case. To verify, I actually went to the local registrar yesterday to see when ballots come out (10/14; I leave 10/1) and they said only option for me is to have them mail ballot to a defined place along the way that gets mail. Sadly, that won’t work for me. The only “definable” place I’m going does not get USPS mail.
Kay
@The Dangerman:
There’s a video of Trump voting once in NYC. He’s fucked it up- he’s in the wrong place or not registered or something.
He’s furious. That’s what privilege is- special rules. He demands he be treated differently than other person wandering in there.
catclub
@hovercraft:
How about this? “Donald Trump has always done what he sees is in Donald Trump’s best interest. If it comes down to choosing between the foreign policy interests of the US, and the interests of Donald Trump, he will choose like he always has. This will happen with obvious conflicts of interest Trump has with Turkey, India and Russia, just to name three.”
Still boring?
catclub
@Mike R: In my case, the private sector has results back the next day. The lab is not in house for a small
medical provider.
catclub
@magurakurin:
Walking around money?
magurakurin
@Major Major Major Major: yes, he was calling Nate’s prediction a snapshot, that’s what I got from it, too. Nate got all weird on Sam Wang’s case in 2012 as I remember. Nate wrote a rather bitter piece attacking Wang and Wang was all like, whaaa? One good thing, I’ll get my ballot soon, so I’ll be able to vote early. That will be nice.
Betty Cracker
@The Dangerman: Weren’t you going to vote for Stein or some other no-hope candidate as a protest vote anyway? (Sorry if I’m mixing you up with someone else.)
magurakurin
@catclub: yeah, those blue sunglasses to stop the epileptic fits don’t come cheap, buddy.
Bobby Thomson
@Mike R: the whole blood test regime is a ridiculous artifact from a time when no one questioned doctors’ God complexes. Just gimme the damn numbers. I don’t need to sit in a waiting room for an hour or more just to get glorified punditry.
BR
In other news, what the hell is going on in Ohio? Selzer, who is a top notch pollster, has Trump up 5 or 6.
I’m wondering if this is the reverse effect of Portman’s senate race which is doing well and maybe helping Trump.
catclub
@CaseyL:
I thought it was “V” where the alien reptiles were in human costumes.
rikyrah
Ain’t that a bytch?
magurakurin
@BR:
He’s also from Nate’s crew. And I don’t dislike Nate Silver. I still read him and still listen to what he has to say. Just not sure quite where he stands at the moment. I know he wants to be impartial and I get that, but…
we want to hear what we want to hear, I guess.
magurakurin
@srv:
and apparently they trust a losing businessman even more.
sherparick
Checked out the NY Times web page. No mention of this story, just the horse race story that Trump has cancelled his appearance on Dr. Oz to “disclose” his current health information. Stories on Hillary’s lack of vision and how “Lunghazi” reinforces the “narrative” of Clinton’s secretiveness.
Major Major Major Major
@magurakurin: Nate does a snap shot; he calls it the “now-cast.” Wang was saying his November prediction was as useless as a prediction as trying to predict something with the now-cast would be.
@Bobby Thomson: I was gently explaining to some moron on Facebook that Hillary is in fact not having seizures all over the place yesterday, and then he was like “I’m a doctor, bitch! Bet you didn’t see that coming!” So I said that being a doctor doesn’t make you smart, and he sounds like a bad doctor, and I hope I’m never his patient.
Doctors can be so full of themselves.
eclare
@catclub: I guess it depends on size. I go to a group with 10-12 doctors, and I see the dr., get blood drawn there, and then wait 15 minutes to see the dr. with the results. I’m sure it also depends on what tests, too.
Seanly
Shorter – Trump an even bigger grifter than we could imagine.
OzarkHillbilly
@srv: I must be a lizard.
Marjowil
@Wapiti: I thought that was Trump’s plan anyway.
The Dangerman
@Betty Cracker:
Actually, I probably would have (or will, if I get back in time) the top line blank. HRC is up ~20 in deepest blue CA so I’m afforded the opportunity.
Betty Cracker
@The Dangerman: No such purity option for us Floridians, so I’ll have to sully my lily-white paws on the lever for the neo-liberal-corporate-sellout-warmonger. Le sigh.
OzarkHillbilly
@eclare: I go to a small town clinic. Usually takes a day, sometimes 2. Maybe more, have to admit I don’t pay much attention to it one way or the other.
hovercraft
@Betty Cracker:
I’m shocked he isn’t here crowing already.
BR
@The Dangerman:
I’m in CA and was thinking I’d do that, but running up the score in the popular vote is important to me now and so I’m trying to get everyone to not only vote for Clinton even here but also volunteer. Looking at the electoral map, Nevada is going to be crucial because it is a relatively viable path to 270 (vs. Ohio which is looking harder each day). So please consider it. And volunteer.
Major Major Major Major
@Betty Cracker: you forgot to call her a whore, liar, or opportunist!
BR
@magurakurin:
Yeah, I know that we don’t need Ohio, and it’s not the best target this year anyway. But that means we folks in CA really need to be working hard to win Nevada. And that’s what I’m hoping other folks here in CA will do — the campaign has buses going to Nevada and if anyone here is in CA, would you be willing to sign up for one?
hovercraft
@Kay:
What does he know about health and lifestyle that would be useful to anyone?
Trump is a charleton, and Oz is a quack, the crazy Dr. Bornstein is crazy and weird.
sigaba
@srv: Remember the Germans paid Milo to bomb his own airbase.
The Dangerman
@Betty Cracker:
Hey, I feel for those in swing states, I do; I live somewhere where the outcomes (for the big ones, anyway) are known in advance. Look at our Senate race. The Republican Party in CA is, except in isolated locales, is dead.
ETA: One of the really cool things about living in a no doubter is I see very few campaign commercials (I don’t think I’ve seen a single Trump ad). On the flip side, our football teams suck.
eclare
@OzarkHillbilly: I only pay attention because I have to sit there and wait for results. But unless he’s getting some exotic test, like Zika, done, no way it should take this long.
scav
@Major Major Major Major: Republican medicine is special: Terry Schaivo is in fine form, tip-top form, couldn’t be improved (except by the Donald) and Hillary Clinton is clearly and congenitally unfit.
JMG
If Trump were to win (still unlikely, still possible), assuming the nation survives to 2020 in that event, one bitter laugh will be provided by watching the purity ponies turn Democratic nominee Sen. Warren into a neoliberal sellout
SenyorDave
@sherparick: The NYT will show us all, they can’t be influenced into covering a story that should be covered. Just like they won’t cover the Trump Foundation which is so obviously a scam that they don’t even try to hide the fact.
hovercraft
@Kay:
Last night on CNN Gloria Borgia said they had asked the Trump Org. what their policy is re. paid maternity leave. The response was 12 weeks, asked how long that had been their policy, the response was no comment. I wonder why no comment. Hmm.
The Dangerman
@BR:
Seriously, I would if I could, but I’m principal caretaker for an Octogenarian parent (dementia) and am Court Conservator for long-term Parkinson’s Uncle (79, near Octagenarian). My days are well beyond maxxed.
hovercraft
@Bobby Thomson:
Thomas Friedman is that you?
Shalimar
A more obvious reason Trump might admire Vladimir Putin than because Putin is a dictator who says nice things about him: Putin is reputedly worth $200 billion despite never having a job outside of government. Putin is a master at getting a cut out of every major business deal that takes place in Russia. Imagine what Trump could do with the entire US economy to scam onto.
Miss Bianca
@magurakurin: Dear God, I’m going to have to watch them again because seriously – how do you leave out the scouring of the Shire?
OzarkHillbilly
@eclare: It’s kinda funny, I live in a cell hole and often don’t get phone calls. They will leave messages asking me to call that I won’t listen to for days (because most messages are just BS) because I forgot all about the tests. Nowadays, they’ll call, leave a message, and just go ahead and mail the results.
hovercraft
@catclub:
But that is injecting opinion into a “straight” journalism piece, which is contrary to reporting norms except when writing about the Clintons.
Major Major Major Major
@Miss Bianca: and another thing! Everybody knows Samwise was the real hero!
Miss Bianca
@Punchy: Where did you see this? I live in CO and I find it hard to believe, myself.
rikyrah
@magurakurin:
Fabulous image.
True words.
Thor Heyerdahl
Ha. Two ads I have with this post – a Russian one at the top and after the article a Walmart ad for Duraplus cleaning tools (with a nice picture of a mop bucket)
OzarkHillbilly
@scav:
FTFY, you’ll get my bill in the mail
Matt McIrvin
@Miss Bianca: I think there’s a tiny glimpse of it as a possible future that doesn’t actually happen.
But, yeah, in Jackson’s continuity, Saruman got killed early at Isengard, in a scene that only appears in the director’s cut near the beginning of movie 3. In the theatrical cut it’s completely offscreen. The Shire stays relatively unscathed. I think Jackson’s justification was that he cut it for time–but given the amount of time he spends on less essential episodes, it’s an odd decision.
hovercraft
@Bobby Thomson:
My doctor gives me the paperwork for my bloodwork at the end of every quarterly visit, I get it drawn a few days before my next scheduled appointment, she reviews it at the beginning of my next visit. No muss no fuss.
cmorenc
@Betty Cracker:
…”Complex” is precisely the problem with drawing appropriate MSM attention to the story – it takes multiple paragraphs to explain enough of each one of the huge pile of severe Trump conflicts of interest. One thing the GOP/right wing smear machine is very good at is the ability to synthesize complex stories about the Clintons (or whatever) into simple three or four panel cartoon stories, especially since they have no scruples about factual accuracy or context in their cartoon-story synthesis. They have developed a very good sense of what folk-story-depth is well-suited to attract MSM consumption and meme repetition. We, OTOH tend to present the MSM with ten to twenty-page term papers, eagerly expecting the MSM to not only carefully read them, but follow-up by consulting the footnote references as well – and we’re disappointed that MSM’s reaction is “eyes glaze over” by page 2.
J R in WV
@catclub:
My solo practitioner Family Medicine doctor has a big lab, it’s part of his profit margin to do the vast majority of his blood work, etc. Some results are available at the end of the day for annual physicals, others are later and you get a phone call.
Calouste
@The Dangerman: So half a vote for the white supremacist then? Which half do you agree with? Is it deporting 11 million Latinos or barring Muslims from entering the US?
Kropadope
@cmorenc:
The core essence of why a lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has its shoes on.
Peale
@Kay: And even Steve King chimed in that there wouldn’t be enough waste found to cover those charges. But he would vote for it as long as gays and lesbians with children couldn’t take part in it. Any amount of money to screw the gays is a good cause for him.
Poopyman
@hovercraft:
Nicely snuck in!
Major Major Major Major
@Kropadope: I think this misses a big part of the problem though. When we DO try to tell a story in easily digestible soundbites, the media is like oh, well, that’s unfair, this isn’t quite accurate, you’re being mean, democrats gone too far?, etc.
Matt McIrvin
@JMG: They already called Warren a neoliberal sellout when Warren endorsed Clinton. Hell, they called Bernie Sanders a neoliberal sellout when he endorsed Clinton.
rikyrah
@Dadadadadadada:
Not sarcasm at all.
The previous campaign manager actually said it:
He would be like a Chairman of the Board President. Not really DOING the work of President – he’d delegate most of it.
When he SAID IT OUT LOUD, I pursed my lips.
ONLY a REPUBLICAN White man could utter that, and STILL be taken seriously.
No Non-White.
No WOMAN could ever say it (Dem or GOP)
No Democrat Man.
Jeffro
I can’t see the ‘business conflicts’ being a major issue for 90% of Trump supporters, or any of Clinton’s supporters. It may be a minor issue for the remaining 10% of Trump supporters, but I doubt it. For the few independents that still haven’t made up their mind, it might be a minor issue for them as well but again, I doubt it – if they’re brainless enough to be independent/undecided between Trump & Clinton at this point, they won’t be able to see what a real risk Trump’s international grifting is to the country.
What might move the needle a bit with some folks (most hopefully, most especially that last 10% of Trump supporters who might not be fully committed) is the Bondi bribery case. Team Clinton has a pretty effective ad up that shows Donald bragging during the debates about buying off politicians, complete with media figures explaining that’s exactly what he did – bribe a sitting state AG not to investigate his scam “University”. That invites not just Dem message unity, but also a full-blown investigation right through the election.
Kropadope
@Calouste: This bashing of people who want to support third party candidates (or otherwise not vote Democrat or Republican) is really ugly. True, the US has always had two parties, but they weren’t always the same two parties. Insisting that our political duopoly can’t be shaken up is just another way to say you don’t want it to be shaken up. You want the Republicans to survive and remain exactly as they are.
Does the Department of Mysteries have a room for self-fulfilling prophecies?
The Dangerman
@Calouste:
Nope. I find these arguments silly; not voting for “A” is not a vote (or half vote) for “B”. I see this argument used against the Never Trumpers (on the righty sites, I mean), too, and it’s nonsense.
Now, as mentioned, I’m rather relieved I don’t have (or probably won’t have, anyway) to vote at all. I’m spending a good portion of 6 weeks at the Parkinson’s Uncle’s and all his USPS mail comes to me already (so, if I forwarded my ballot from my address to his address, it would simply come back home to me).
rikyrah
@Aleta:
The Generals are terrified of him for a reason.
Kropadope
@Major Major Major Major: Well, no one ever accused the media of being fair.
Bobby Thomson
@catclub: some states require the lab to be separate, too.
The Other Chuck
@Miss Bianca:
Because it was an appendix, a wholly self-contained short story about as unrelated to the main story as Tom Bombadil. Just because it came off Tolkein’s pen doesn’t make it inviolable gospel.
magurakurin
@Kropadope: there are two sides. Fucking pick one. everything else is bullshit at this point. six weeks to go. clinton or trump. either you help or you are the enemy.
Bobby Thomson
@Kropadope: fine, take your stand when the choices are a white supremacist and a woman who rubs you the wrong way. Much brave. So renegade.
Major Major Major Major
@The Other Chuck: I think “coming from the author’s pen” is actually exactly what makes something gospel.
Calouste
@Kropadope: “You want the Republicans to survive and remain exactly as they are.” That’s one of the stupidest arguments you have made here, and you have a long history of making stupid arguments. The way to get rid of the Republicans is to utterly defeat them, and you achieve that by voting for Democrats. A realignment will only happen after that.
So same question for you: which do you think Trump is going to far with, deporting 11 million Latinos or barring Muslims from entry, because you obviously agree with one of them.
hovercraft
@eclare:
It depends on whether they do the tests in house on send the sample(s) out. Dependng on where you are in the country practices differ. NY, NJ, extremely rare that they do in house testing except anything really basic, except obviously hospitals.
Kropadope
@magurakurin: You’re your own worst enemy as far as I can see. There’s just a complete lack of empathy for anyone with a more complex thought process than “Republicans baaaaad.”
Major Major Major Major
@Matt McIrvin: I saw a thing on the book of faces today (H.A. Goldman maybe) about how Liz Warren is totally FREAKING OUT that she endorsed Hitlery and we need Bernie to swoop in and save us like YESTERDAY
Amir Khalid
@The Dangerman:
Given that it’s her or Trump, why would you ever consider not voting for Hillary? Even a passive non-vote helps him, by not cancelling out a vote in his favour.
Chyron HR
@Kropadope:
So what is this, Month 5 of your “two weeks of trolling” that we’re not allowed to hold against you?
Calouste
@The Dangerman: So you agree with both deporting 11 million Latinos and barring Muslim from the US? What makes you not vote for Trump then?
The Other Chuck
@Major Major Major Major: There’s a profession called “Editor” that would differ with that assessment. Some people just wanted the movie to be a guy reading the book on screen word for word.
magurakurin
@Kropadope: you’ve lost the plot, mate.
Calouste
@Kropadope: Quite some projection there, considering you have a complete lack of empathy for anyone not white, and for what the effects of a Trump presidency will be for them.
Kropadope
@Calouste:
No, that won’t do it. An alternative has to surpass them in order to get rid of them.
Talk about stupid arguments, with an added dose of false equivalence.
Kropadope
@Chyron HR: How is this trolling? Trolling is not “having a different opinion.”
JPL
In other news, Trump pulled out some test results and Oz went over them. Not sure whose test results they were though.
https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/776088029287084033
The Dangerman
@Amir Khalid:
In our system of Electoral Votes, no, it doesn’t.
Major Major Major Major
@The Other Chuck: no, things editors remove or change aren’t considered canon if the author says they didn’t want the editor to do it. In some of the writer’s guilds you can even get your name removed from a work entirely if it’s changed too much once it’s out of your hands.
magurakurin
@Kropadope: by suggesting that anyone voting the two morons, Johnson or Stein, isn’t a complete moron themself
Miss Bianca
@The Other Chuck: Yeah, if you happen to think that “bringing the war home” is completely irrelevant to Tolkien’s theme. Which apparently both you and PJ did.
Kropadope
@Calouste: You need to figure out a better argument than not voting for Hillary Clinton makes you a racist, because no one outside your little circle jerk is buying it. And I’m not even saying that I won’t vote for Clinton or that people shouldn’t. I’m just saying that people have their own reasons for their votes and that should be respected.
@magurakurin: Now what you’re doing is trolling.
Gin & Tonic
This is interesting. Eichenwald says he talked with Trump Org but it was off the record. So today Lewandowski went on CNN and lied, saying Eichenwald never contacted Trump Org. Result is Eichenwald now says “fuck ‘off the record’ “
Major Major Major Major
@Kropadope: to be fair, Johnson and Stein ARE morons.
magurakurin
@Kropadope: so, Johnson and Stein aren’t two complete and utter jokes? lol. you’re a bloody stroker, mate.
JPL
@Kropadope: As we know Trump’s economic policy is trickle down economic, however it’s even worse that that. All banking regulations would be done away with, because bank’s have learned their lesson. Honest, believe me!
Even if Trump appeared to be stable enough for the office, I can’t support his policies.
Calouste
@Kropadope: So you want to both deport Latinos and ban Muslims? Good to know. I guess anything as long as your fragile white ego gets some attention.
JPL
@Gin & Tonic: I just saw that. Hilarious!
Kropadope
@Major Major Major Major: Perhaps, and I’m not voting for them, but that’s not relevant to the bigger issue here.
@JPL:
Neither can I, so who or what are you arguing against? Would you like a new bale of straw?
Matt McIrvin
@Major Major Major Major: The recasting of Pneumoniagate as Bernie’s third chance is my current favored source of alarming dark comedy. Though, granted, not many people are doing it.
Tracy Ratcliff
@BR: It’s a likely voter screen, where the pollsters think the likely voters will look like 2004
Kay
Chuck Todd:
We all watched Trump tell them to fuck off on the taxes, business records and medical records, yet they insist they are making progress.
It won’t get better if he’s elected. It will get worse. They thought Ailes was a harsh master. Wait until it’s like Ailes with an army and the power to imprison people.
magurakurin
@Kropadope: it is actually the only thing relevant to the issue of choosing the potus.
Hal
@Major Major Major Major:
I mentioned in an earlier thread that a friend had a link to a video showing Hillary’s body double (apparently the real Hillary died weeks ago) and now it was time for Bernie to save us all? I guess the Bernout holdouts are expecting a Hillary win and this is there last chance to snatch defeat from the jaws of defeat. Or something like that.
scav
@OzarkHillbilly: Well, I’ll try to get the money to you quick as you’ll need it to pay for your personal defense against those howling for your hide after hiding the “con” in Hillary’s genitals.
Kropadope
@Calouste: I support neither, you self-righteous sack of shit, and you’re the one advancing that cause as far as I can tell.
Aleta
@Dadadadadadada: One up from basic level (Confidential) but below the top level is “Secret” level.
From wiki:
Kay
@Gin & Tonic:
It’s so appalling to me that one of the debate moderators is coming from the Lewandowski news organization. They should all recuse.
Amir Khalid
@The Dangerman:
Never mind the Electoral College mechanics.Why are you considering not voting for Hillary? What is your objection to her?
jl
Are these issue things important? Foreign policy is kind of geeky and not fun unless booms.
The news machine told me this morning that Colin Powell’s celebrity gossip about hissy fits at parties in the Hamptons about best way for State department personnel to CYA on their emails is more important.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kropadope:
If a person’s reason is idiotic, why I am obligated to respect it?
Kropadope
@magurakurin: Right, but no characteristic of the two individuals is relevant to the fact that people have the right to vote for whomever they want and insulting people who are considering doing so won’t dissuade them.
Peale
@rikyrah: Yep. They claim that Obama is destroying the country with everything that he does. If he said “o.k. I’ll step back and be only a figurehead” they’d still claim he was destroying the country because even as symbol he’s too much to bear.
JPL
@Kropadope: My point being, there are two main contenders for the office of the president. Although, I am concerned about some of Hillary’s views, I’m terrified of Trump’s. Personally, I’m not throwing my vote away.
The Dangerman
@Amir Khalid:
“Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, did you enjoy the play?”
There is no never mind.
Miss Bianca
@Omnes Omnibus: Because – because – REASONS, O2!! People have REASONS for embracing inane, idiotic positions that have everything to do with the pure ideal and nothing to do with sweaty workaday reality, and who are WE to judge them for it?
Aleta
@Kay:
And lock down what’s left of the press.
hovercraft
@Major Major Major Major:
The Bernie last standers are trying to gin up a non existent appetite for a change of nominee. Micheal Moore, the Nation and others lefty purists want to use her sickness as an excuse to revive calls for her to either step down or become the personification of him. The crap about his people not supporting her is back full force now that the polls have tightened. A few weeks of terrible press have had their intended effect, but he’s still not winning so they can STFU.
Amir Khalid
@The Dangerman:
I ask again, what is your objection to Hillary the candidate?
magurakurin
@The Dangerman: but such a vote does depend on everyone else NOT doing the same. Always better to vote for the outcome desired.
JMG
Trump would never have gotten as far as he has if the US electorate had not become wholly post-policy, voting for reasons of group and individual identity rather than issues which require work to understand. It’s why he has a chance to win. Has the media contributed to that? Sure. But it’s not the main factor. As a country, we are poor at citizenship.
magurakurin
@Miss Bianca: and think of their hurt feelings.
Major Major Major Major
@Omnes Omnibus: you know, people seem to get upset when I say things like that. I was on a FB… Discussion, not really argument, the other day and I said that libertarianism is stupid and dangerous. My friend said that basically “WTF, my own politics is strongly influenced by left libertarian views” and I said “this makes it less stupid and dangerous how?” And the conversation ended!
Kropadope
@JPL:
Two things:
First, if you’re like most people, you live in a state that’s barely being contested, if at all. I know this applies in my case as well as the other entity upthread. Despite that, I still plan on voting for Hillary, but I’m not gonna work myself up into a huff if someone is considering doing otherwise.
Second thing, I would submit that voting for someone you don’t actually support is throwing your vote away.
@magurakurin:
If everyone else did the same, wouldn’t that mean the candidate Dangerman ACTUALLY wants would win? What’s the downside supposed to be again?
Miss Bianca
@magurakurin: Oh, come on. You’re trying to talk reason to someone who has REASONS. You might as well try to teach a dog to talk.
The Dangerman
@Kropadope:
No, no, no; they think name calling will get me to change my mind, as if calling me a misogynist (seriously, someone here equated a no vote for HRC as misogyny; next up, the fact that I’m not a Streisand fan means I’m anti-semetic), racist, or idiot is really going to be useful.
I mean, talk about idiotic.
magurakurin
@JMG:
sadly,yes.
Omnes Omnibus
@Miss Bianca: @Major Major Major Major: I will take a step back and say that people have a right to be an idiot and I respect that right. I, however, will not refrain from considering idiots to be idiots.
raven
@Miss Bianca: My dog can talk.
Corner Stone
@The Dangerman: No one thinks you are capable of changing your mind.
Humdog
Dangerman, you are pretty glib about not voting. I understand you are a caregiver, but CA makes it really easy to absentee ballot vote. You do realize that the president is just one little box to check on the ballot. Myself, I cannot ignore the other items on the ballot, particularly Senator. I will be utterly ashamed if California sends a Blue Dog to the US Senate. If we cannot send a progressive to the Senate, how can we expect to change the way thenSenate works? Sanchez is campaigning with frikken Daryl Issa, for fucks sake! Sure glad you have time to post here but not to take the minimal steps to try to get a better Senate, not to mention all the other items on our California ballot.
Kropadope, living up to your name.
Calouste
@Kropadope: ” I’m just saying that people have their own reasons for their votes and that should be respected.” I have no respect for racists or racist-enablers, and anyone who votes Republican, third party, or not at all in this presidential election falls in either of those categories. And I don’t have respect for people who make excuses for them either, but I think even you had already worked that out, considering you are now left with only crude insults.
Corner Stone
WTF is this nonsense garbage time bullshit they are reporting about Trump giving Dr. Oz a one sheet summary from his Dr. Borstein?
Cronkite wept.
JPL
According to Greg Sargent, some really bad polls are going to be released.
hovercraft
From the Colin Powell e-mails. Via TPM
Lizzy L
@raven: Raven for the WIN!
Major Major Major Major
@Omnes Omnibus: What made you think we were disagreeing about that?
Omnes Omnibus
@Major Major Major Major: Nothing. I was just clarifying my earlier statement.
Kropadope
@Calouste:
Funny, because the Democratic candidate enabled the racists in the Republican party to bomb the ever-loving shit out of people who had nothing to with 9/11 and who were, in fact, just living peaceful lives minding their own business. You seem to have gotten past that.
Miss Bianca
@raven: So can mine, actually. Poor analogy. I was trying to avoid “teach a pig to sing”. ; )
Omnes Omnibus
@Miss Bianca: My pig can sing.
The Dangerman
@Amir Khalid:
I’ve stated it here previously; I don’t think I will do it again. One time offer only.
Bottom line, this is a macro and micro level issue; on the macro, I find Trump a disgusting piece of shit and I hope HRC wins but, on the micro, in the way the system works (again, it’s the EC), it’s not a binary choice. Trying to make it a binary choice on the micro is pure silliness.
scav
Some people have the luxury of counting on political herd immunity so they can congratulate themselves on their morally superior organically-pure political morals and pea-in-the-mattress-stack sensitivity.
Miss Bianca
@Omnes Omnibus: I believe our hearts and minds are as one on this particular issue.
ETA: @Omnes Omnibus: LOL! All right, I give up on this one! All my paws are in the air!
The Lodger
@hovercraft: Gloria Borgia.
That is either a typo or a masterpiece.
Bobby Thomson
@Calouste: @Calouste: he’s a republican troll. Always has been. Long history.
Dadadadadadada
@Aleta: Thanks for the raw data. With that in mind, it looks like Obama would have a better chance than Trump, based on a) Trump having such a checkered business history b) Obama’s foreign ties being so tenuous (a few years abroad in childhood, and a foreign deadbeat dad he didn’t meet until he was like 25). Also, Obama is not visibly insane, so he’d probably get points for that.
PJ
@The Other Chuck: Actually, it was an essential part of the story – that no part of Middle Earth was safe from the war, and that the hobbits (who are basically the readers’ viewpoints for the story) were as affected, and as damaged, as other participants (i.e., there is victory, but no happy ending.)
Immanentize
I just got done with teaching — and it was probably mentioned upstairs by others, but more and more I am convinced that the media wants Trump to lose, but not by much.
Jeffro
@hovercraft:
Ay-men! If it helps them understand this better, just flip it around: if Bernie were the nominee and had pneumonia, would it be reasonable to expect him to step down, or to expect him to ‘morph’ into Secretary Clinton? LOL
Aleta
@nonynony: and a riveting fictional genre called “reality show” that is manipulated so we treat the characters as real and the shows as real-time events.
Miss Bianca
@The Dangerman:
No. In the way the system works, there is no possibility for a vote for a third-party candidate on the national level to act as anything but a spoiler, so trying to pretend it’s *not* a binary choice is pure fatuousness. But please continue to be the voting equivalent of an anti-vaxxer, since it’s apparently so very, very important for you to inhabit an ideal world that none of the rest of us can afford to live in. “Dangerman”, indeed.
Jeffro
@JMG:
Correction: “…if the GOP primary electorate had not become wholly post-policy…”
The Dems are still on point and consistent in matters of proposing, discussing, and seeking to implement actual policies that benefit actual Americans. The GOP has been lost in a sea of W embarrassment, Obama-hating, and now HRC-DS
JMG
@JPL: It would be surprising if polls taken including Sunday and Monday weren’t really good for Trump. His opponent was taken visibly ill in public.
MomSense
@Kropadope:
W. Bush, Powell, and others in his administration asked for the AUMF so they would have the leverage necessary to press the UN for inspections. W went to the UN. Powell went to the UN. The inspectors started doing rigorous inspections. This is what Clinton, and almost all the other Senators serving at the time voted for. Bush lied. You and I could say that we would have been smarter and not believed W’s promises but the reality was that a lot of Democratic Senators thought this was the best chance they had to get the UN inspectors involved.
The Dangerman
@Humdog:
Yes, they do; they really do. I even went out of my way to go to the Registrar’s before lunch yesterday to see what they would do for me. They told me they would mail a ballot on a one off basis to anyplace I tell them I will be. Now, since I’ll be spending ~6 weeks out of a suitcase in as yet unidentified hotels (it’s off season in the Redwoods, so I’ll make reservations last minute, if I make them at all) and sending mail to my Uncle’s house is impossible (mail isn’t delivered there), I can send a ballot to one of his neighbors (and maybe I will, I don’t know) or I can send it General Delivery to a random PO (since sending it to a hotel’s address, even if I knew where I will stay right now, doesn’t really work). I try not to bother people (i.e., neighbors) that I barely know but … I might.
Calouste
@Kropadope: So your logic is that instead of voting for the candidate who admitted it was a mistake we should vote for the candidate who wants to double down on invading other countries?
Kay
Accurate stenography from multi-millionaire reporter Mitchell is now “breaking news”.
This is, what? 4th hand? Dr. Bornstein told Trump who told Oz who told Mitchell. This is literally exactly what anyone watching the Trump/Oz Show could do. She adds zero value.
Calouste
@The Dangerman: Voting for or against a white supremacist is a binary choice.
hovercraft
@The Lodger:
Freudian slip ; – )
Kropadope
@Miss Bianca:
In a political environment where everything is nationalized, smaller parties don’t have a chance of getting notice without fielding candidates to offices that are beyond their reach. Gary Johnson almost certainly won’t win, but he could boost Libertarian prospects in the nooks and crannies of elected government positions.
Besides all that, I’m pleased as punch that people who are normally Republican-inclined and who may have considered holding their noses and voting for Trump have a pair of Republican governors to vote for instead.
Davebo
This is a mistake IMO. I realize the investigation hit the news but as AG if there is an ongoing investigation, especially in this situation, the best response to reports of it is to say we don’t comment on ongoing investigations.
Kropadope
@Calouste: I’ve said repeatedly, including here on this thread, that I’m voting for Hillary Clinton. I’m just strongly anti-being-a-dick to people on the fence.
Corner Stone
@Kay: I saw it “breaking” on MSNBC and I just started shaking my head because I am convinced this is how they are going to play it. They will simply report Trump disclosed a medical review from his Dr, Oz reviewed it thoroughly and now everything is good to go. That’s it. All done.
And then they will get back to demanding the live video feed of HRC’s colonoscopy or else she is being secretive and too private.
Aleta
@Dadadadadadada:
Ha. Something for historians to debate after the government goes Strangelove.
There’s also 3 bankruptcies and defaulting on creditors and breaking contracts with investors and contractors.
Kay
Breaking News on CNN:
You click the breaking news link and it takes you to “master showman” piece.
I have to stop watching. It’s weirdly heartbreaking to see them play along like this. Not because of them- the big players are rich and insulated- they’ll be fine, but because this will be the new standard and we’ll all suffer because of it.
MomSense
@Kay:
Seriously I can’t fucking believe our media are this fucking horrible and I held them in low esteem before this 2016 campaign. Waiting for Mitchell to tell us we need to see the video of Clinton’s colonoscopy or her chest X-ray images or she isn’t being transparent enough. Maybe Clinton should have Mitchell attend her next ob/gyn appointment or feel her boobs for lumps with her own hands.
ETA hahahaha Corner Stone beat me to it.
JMG
Ed Kilgore, hardly a congenital pessimist, just wrote that Trump’s election must now be considered a live, that is, 50-50 proposition. So have the boys at Citigroup. Silver saying nobody but him is saying that is just wrong.
MomSense
@Kropadope:
What if people on the fence are dicks?
gwangung
I will bash any third party candidate that doesn’t have a sizable constituency in Congress that gives them support.
If you don’t have a constituency, you’re just running a vanity campaign; you certainly aren’t interested in change.
Aleta
@raven: my dog uses mind control
(our minds)
Kropadope
@MomSense:
Then it’s OK, but I would add that broadly categorizing all fence-sitters as such is a dick move.
Kay
@Corner Stone:
I don’t know what to do other than what I planned on doing anyway. I’m going to take a break now though because I don’t want to watch this happen. It makes me hate everyone involved and I wasn’t that fond of them to begin with.
The thing for me is Clinton does the best she can. She can’t do more than that. I think she is doing a great job in a very tough (and blatantly unfair) environment so that’s that, as far as I’m concerned.
Have to leave the rest up to the cosmos :)
comrade scott's agenda of rage
@Miss Bianca:
Voting third party is the electoral equivalent of sending thoughts and prayers. Or for purity ponies to burnish their progressive cred.
Sheesh, a couple of the commenters here sound an awful lot like Our Progressive Betters among some of the commentariat over at Booman. How you differ from most glibertarians in terms of how the system works in reality is minute.
JMG
@Kay: Only attitude to take. Good for you.
Calouste
@Kropadope: You keep saying that you will vote for Clinton, you just don’t behave like you would.
And sitting on the fence in this election is an implicit admission that you are ok with having an incompetent unqualified white supremacist as president.
Corner Stone
Ooooo, given his history that little nugget is just creeee—pee.
ETA, something about Oz saying how nice it was to see a father kiss his daughter (as Ivanka came out on stage for the show), and Trump saying “he kisses her as much as he can” or similar expression.
YUCKMOUTH!
MomSense
@Kropadope:
Really because I think it is a dick move to even consider for a nano second not voting for the only candidate with a whisker’s chance of defeating someone who tells a crowd of thousands that he will pay the legal bills for the hoodlums who beat up the protestor. Or what about deporting millions of people in a few short months, not allowing Muslims into the country, calling for war crimes like killing the family members of ISIS fighters, etc. You mean I’m supposed to be nice to someone for whom this kind of racism and violence is not enough to cause them to get off the fence?
rikyrah
Trump Campaign Embraces Another White Supremacist Symbol: Pepe the Frog
by Nancy LeTourneau
September 14, 2016 9:41 AM
A smiling green man-frog doesn’t initially come off as sinister, and the origins of Pepe the Frog were pretty innocuous. But back in May, Olivia Nuzzi explained how this cartoon image had been appropriated by what we now call the “alt-right,” or white supremacists.
………………………..
In writing about this, James Fallows says:
I’m not going to share the Pepe variants I keep getting in the mail, but they include:
…………..
In response to Hillary Clinton’s “basket of deplorables,” Trump’s BFF Roger Stone tweeted this:
I am so proud to be one of the Deplorables #Trump2016 pic.twitter.com/IFD1hfC60w
— Roger Stone (@RogerJStoneJr) September 10, 2016
Donald Trump Jr. liked it so much that he posted it on his Instagram account.
Both of them express their pride in being associated with a white supremacist symbol. But they aren’t the only ones. Back in October, when white supremacists first started linking Pepe with Trump, the image was tied to a video titled, “You can’t stump Trump.” The candidate himself got in on the act, tweeting the image and video to places like Breitbart and The Drudge Report.
“@codyave: @drudgereport @BreitbartNews @Writeintrump “You Can’t Stump the Trump” https://t.co/0xITB7XeJV pic.twitter.com/iF6S05se2w”
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) October 13, 2015
Fallows says that all of this reminds him of the incident with the Trump campaign’s use of the Star of David. He’s right. But this one is even more sinister. Perhaps that’s because it seems to be flying under the radar a bit and is more reminiscent of a dogwhistle. The use of Pepe the Frog is designed to send a message to white supremacists: “We’re with you.” I don’t know of a better way of describing that than “deplorable.”
Aleta
New headline: Trump Dominates Headlines
Kropadope
@MomSense:
What if two candidates surpass Trump? Then we have a chance of sidelining that type of mania for a long time.
Corner Stone
@MomSense: Is there any stage beyond Peak Stabby?
Asking for a friend.
Trollhattan
@Kropadope:
Virtually no scenario under which this can happen.
Dadadadadadada
@Kropadope: Who will the second candidate be? The anti-vax nutcase who isn’t even on all the ballots, or the guy who’s never heard of Aleppo? Either one would probably make a better president than Trump, but there’s just no chance of them getting more votes in this election.
Kropadope
@Calouste:
Voting for her doesn’t mean I need to pretend she’s perfect or that there aren’t perfectly valid reasons people may not want to support her.
There are three reasons I’m voting for her; the first is that I think she’d do a good job in general, the second is that I think the media is hideously unfair to Democrats in general and that needs to be pushed back on, the third is that the strongest factor making me consider doing otherwise is the smug satisfaction of a subset of Democratic voters and I don’t want to let the behavior of other voters to impact my vote.
Calouste
@Kropadope: What if you would make an honest argument? That has the same chance of happening as the Republican candidate coming third (or lower) in this presidential election.
MomSense
@Corner Stone:
I hope not because peak stabby is the worst.
Kropadope
@Dadadadadadada:
I would say Johnson is the one who has the better chance of passing Trump and saying it can’t happen is sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy. It won’t happen if people considering doing it refuse to try because they must stop Hillary at all costs.
Kropadope
@Calouste: What have I said that was disonest? (I ask of the person slinging endless insults who says I only have insults to offer)
nutella
This is going to get even more interesting:
Morning tweet from the reporter says “Ive been duped. I was told my exchanges w/ Trump Org were off record. Then Trump/RNC guys say I never contacted Trump Org. Off-record waived” link
Reporters should do more of this: If they make a deal with a source and the source violates it, all parts of the deal are off. Too many reporters keep a promise of anonymity, for example, after they find out their anonymous source lied.
Go get ’em, Kurt!
MomSense
@Kropadope:
I hope you don’t mean the two candidates combined because I have been living that nightmare in my state and it is terrible. Also the other candidates in this scenario of yours are both completely fucking unqualified. I’m going to say that it is a dick move to vote for any of the three vanity candidates instead of Clinton who is the only responsible option.
germy
What’s with the question marks next to the reply button?
Peale
@Kay: Yeah. I can’t really watch. I wish there was a news site called “Non-Election News”. I don’t want to turn out the news entirely, because I don’t want to wake up some morning late this month and find out that my town has been evacuated and I’m the only one who didn’t get the memo. But a cite that was devoted for all news BUT what Trump and Clinton did today and what so and so thought that meant would be refreshing. Who wins in November matters a great deal for the future of the Country and there is no measure by which a Trump presidency wouldn’t be a disaster. And a Democratic loss would be a disaster for the party as well. But our failed institutions aside, I’ll just have to deal with them next January. I don’t want to have to worry about that disaster until I have to. I definitely don’t want to have to worry about it ever waking hour for six more weeks.
Miss Bianca
@Kropadope:
I disagree. There’s no chance of a third party winning a national-level election, but a non-trivial chance of winning – or at least, significantly spoiling – a local or regional election. But that takes WORK. And organization. Neither of which appears to be particularly appealing to either the Greens or the Libertarians that I know of (with the exception of Art Goodtimes, Green Party member and commissioner for San Miguel County – the only Green Party member I know of who actually *has* put the work into getting elected and making a difference.)
“Besides all that, I’m pleased as punch that people who are normally Republican-inclined and who may have considered holding their noses and voting for Trump have a pair of Republican governors to vote for instead.”
Well..OK.
Kropadope
@MomSense: I mean each individually getting more votes than Trump. Also, if Clinton is the only responsible option, Johnson is the only reasonable alternative. I’m voting for Clinton, but I’m not going to stew in hatred of the large majority of people who won’t regardless of who wins.
Vhh
@Poopyman: so far, media reaction has been muted, little more than crickets. Which proves that secrecy pays, transparency doesn’t.
Turgidson
@comrade scott’s agenda of rage:
I’d rather bathe in sulfuric acid.
Peale
@Vhh: Yep. We’ll see how it goes, but my guess is that they don’t want to be “anti-business”, since “business” is something serious, Trump can get away with anything he wants.
Vhh
@Poopyman: The Newsweek bombshell haes dropped off the CNN front page. They are more interested in Dr Oz.
Amir Khalid
@Kropadope:
You can’t seriously be expecting either Gary Johnson or Jill Stein to finish ahead of Trump, either in the total popular vote or in the Electoral College. Where would the unforeseen shift in support come from? This kind of argument reminds me of the Bernistas who kept insisting that if Bernie pulled off a surprise win over Hillary in the upcoming primary of state X, and then somehow swept all the remaining states, the nomination was his.
Bitter Scribe
Yeah, but Hillary Clinton Russia Canada uranium something something. Balance.
Miss Bianca
OK, now that I’ve read that damning Newsweek article, I’m even more determined that voting “third party” for President is complete horseshit. We have one qualified candidate in HRC, and three mental and moral pygmies opposing her. One would actively pursue his own interests in blithe indifference, or actual opposition to, US interests; one was a disaster as a governor whose fluffing of private prisons, and disregard for the actual way government works, helped plunge his state to the bottom of the heap in terms of economic and educational advances, and one is a Queen of Woo whose understanding of how government works is even more poignantly/maddeningly out of touch with reality than even the other two.
So tell me again how important it is to maintain “integrity”, or how upset you are that, given the choice between ebola and vanilla, in our blog host’s words, you still have QUESTIONS or CONCERNS about vanilla’s answers. Because that’s just so very, very special.
Matt McIrvin
@Amir Khalid: I’ve seen long, long analyses from earlier in the year purporting to demonstrate that Bernie Sanders could beat both Clinton and Trump running as an independent. They had electoral maps and everything, and might have looked persuasive if you knew nothing whatsoever about US politics.
bemused
I don’t suppose in the reporting Trump on Oz show that media has seen fit to mention the Trump’s doc has been sued a few times by families saying he over medicated their loved ones? Over medicated would explain a lot about Trump in general and his extreme reluctance to release accurate health report.
grandpa john
@Tracy Ratcliff: yes this Crosstabs show more rep than dem. has male /female even, Very low Hispanic
D58826
OT but the ACC is following the NCAA lead and moving their championship games from NC due to HB2. Way to go Gov. MCsorry!!!
celticdragonchick
@Miss Bianca: The movie was already reeeeeealy long and the Scouring of the Shire had enough material to make its own movie.
Peter Jackson was already taking hits for “too many ends” in the film as it was, since the destruction of The One Ring and Frodo and Sam preparing to die on Mt Doom was the emotional climax of the entire trilogy. Adding another hour and half to the film would have killed it.
celticdragonchick
@D58826:
The anti GLBT types here in NC are already saying shit like:
I have been seeing similar screeds the last two days here in Greensboro media.
randy khan
I cannot say how delighted I am to see a reporter finally – finally! – getting that the Clinton Foundation spends 90% of its money on programs, which is pretty much the gold standard for charities.
The criticisms of the Foundation last year about how much money was spent on travel, etc., just completely misread the Foundation’s financials and tax forms, which were quite clear about how the money is spent. (And speaking as someone who has been responsible for 990s for a non-profit, it’s really not that hard to get it right and, in any event, a *responsible* reporter would ask an actual expert on non-profit accounting before writing about the money.)
D58826
@celticdragonchick: I’m sure whatever city/state gets the games will be more than happy to get the money that the perverts will spend.:-)
Kropadope
@Amir Khalid: Johnson is polling around 10% now, nearly at the threshold he needs to participate in the debates. Some combination of Johnson gaining more recognition and Trump’s polling reaching a critical ebb could result in a shift. I don’t expect it to happen, but acting like it can’t happen is a guaranteed way to ensure that it doesn’t.
Amir Khalid
@Matt McIrvin:
I’ve seen it in the HA Goodman/Cenk Uygur YouTube Pundit school of political analysis. Bernie worshipers, every last one of them, If you ain’t for Bernie, or as a last resort maybe Jill Stein, then you ain’t “progressive”.
Betty Cracker
@JPL: Yay! We’ll get to see our foul weather friend NR again! Seriously, I’d be surprised if polls taken over the past few days weren’t bad, what with Hillary being dead and all.
Hal
Hillary should turn over all of her medical records from birth until now, but Trump provided one page of information and that’s A-OK? Shouldn’t all the journalists horrified at Hillary not releasing that she has ebola, I mean pneumonia, be equally outraged at Trump’s lack of transparency?
Miss Bianca
@Kropadope: Except for the fact that Gary Johnson is a shit candidate who was a shit governor and would be almost, if not quite, as horrible as Trump – in the sense that dying of pneumonia is arguably a nicer way to go than being chewed to death by rabid weasels – that’s just an awesome prospect!
ETA: Link is to a Jacobin article, true, but my sister lived in New Mexico at the time and she vouches for all of it.
cckids
@Aleta:
Four bankruptcies. Trump CANNOT get a gaming license in Nevada. The gaming regulatory board doesn’t consider him enough of a reliable, honest businessman to let him open a cas1no here in LV.
That says volumes about him. And yet, millions of Republicans want him to run the country.
Amir Khalid
@Kropadope:
Is that his polling average, or just one poll? And: “Nearly”? The Commission on Presidential Debates’ threshold for getting in the debates is 15%; that’s half again what you say Johnson can claim on a good day.
ETA: And Trump’s support would have to ebb by a great deal more before it falls below Johnson’s.
Ian
@magurakurin:
Are we talking about the same Portland, Oregon that provides the vote totals that turn Oregon blue every election? Without Portland the dark red eastern Oregon would win.
rikyrah
I’m in moderation..help
catclub
@Vhh: I think it was Betty Cracker who said wait a few days before rendering judgment on the impact.
I would agree with that. There may be a lull while other organizations do some reporting.
Vhh
I hope you are right. But links so far are disappointingly few. And getting a handle on a secretive multi national octopus takes work and contacts. Writing about pneumonia, Dr Oz, and deplorables us easy.
gogol's wife
@catclub:
If I recall correctly, it took a while for Mitt’s “47%” speech to get wider play. And John McCain’s eight houses.
catclub
I think Colin Powell called the benghazi hearings and investigation a “stupid witch hunt.”
I am surprised this has not been turned to say he called Clinton a stupid witch. Of course, I have not looked for this usage.
The Other Chuck
@PJ: So essential that it was tacked on to the very end of the story, after they’d already returned that little bit of jewelry. I agree, it would have been a powerful part of the story if it took place earlier, but it’s the world’s worst denouement. Even Terry Gilliam would have said “geez dude, lighten up”. Maybe Lars von Trier would have liked it…
Ruckus
@The Dangerman:
Every vote counts. It’s not just OK to do 50%+1 this time, this needs an all hands on deck rout. Do I need to explain why?
Gravenstone
@Kropadope: I’m sorry, this is so beyond stupid, it is physically painful. 35 years ago or so, you could reasonably argue that not all Republicans were the enemy. Since that time (gee, can you guess the starting point?), it has been demonstrated time and again that Republicans are indeed the fucking enemy. They exist solely to enrich themselves and their keepers, while immiserating anyone else who falls into the category of “other”. The fact that you cannot see and acknowledge this at this moment in history marks you as an especially dim bulb. So take your allegedly nuanced view of Republicans and shove it up your ass. It’ll keep your head company.
catclub
@Immanentize:
and if they put their thumb on the scale a little too much and he wins? “bygones”
Mobile
@Gin & Tonic: Some people are saying….
randy khan
@The Other Chuck:
It’s not tacked on at all (and, of course, it’s not the end of the story, which is part of why it’s not tacked on). As noted above, it shows the impact of the war on the Shire, and is dependent on other parts of the plot having occurred already. It also can’t happen until the rest of the war is over because it’s the returning hobbits, having experienced the war, are now *different* enough from the other hobbits that they realize they must do something about it, something the other hobbits aren’t capable of doing. (And not to mention that the symmetry of, in essence, the war starting with hobbits (back in The Hobbit) and ending with them is desirable.)
glory b
@Kropadope: @Ruckus: Ask person of color, we’ll tell you.
How about putting your vote where your mouth is for this one hmm?
The Other Chuck
@randy khan: I mostly meant “tacked on” in the chronological sense, at least as far as its position in the book. I would have loved that Palantir vision of the Shire (I think it was via the Palantir, right?) in the movie to have been longer, but that would still have been the proper place to put it.
Regardless, I think we’re just going to have to agree to disagree, even if that throws the whole BJ dynamic out the window ;)
glory b
@Bobby Thomson: I know! All we people (of color, lgbtq, etc.) who Trump has in his gun sights are in awe of your principled stance. We are just voting like our lives depend on it.
You are sooooo brave!! Thanks for your example!
Ohio Mom
Skipping ahead to end of thread to ask: has anyone suggested that all the money saved by cancelling NY Times subscriptions be used to reward Newsweek with new subscriptions?
Kropadope
@glory b: Have you ever stopped to consider that I may fit into one or more of those categories? How about that you don’t speak for everyone within those groups?
Corner Stone
@catclub:
I think you mean, ” a stupid bitch and a c-word”.
If Roger Stone Jr is not already working to mainstream that I will someone’s vintage Colt 45 baseball hat.
CindyH
@hovercraft: funny that Powell spews off who is to take blame while he never took any blame for the Iraq war. funny that
ruckus
@glory b:
If I’m not mistaken I’m on your side in this. I’m just trying to find out why and how a person who consider themselves a thinking individual could take such an asinine position.
Not of course talking about you.