The press conference is taking place at Westchester County Airport. TPM has a link to a live feed here.
ETA: Conference concluded. Here’s a C-SPAN link in case you missed it.
My favorite part was when Clinton called out Trump about his “secret plan to destroy ISIS” — pointing out that he has no plan. The truth of that was illustrated when Trump responded to Matt Lauer’s question about the secret plan in this exchange, courtesy of TPM:
That’s such absurd, dog-ate-my-homework level bullshit. It would have ended just about any other campaign.
hovercraft
She sounds and looks resolved and measured. A serious person discussing a serious problem, I’m sure Rinse and Trump will tell her to smile.
Trentrunner
This is the person I want leading in times of stress: Calm, rational, informed, resolved.
Stark contrast with the racist impulsive cheeto-faced hate-tornado on the other side.
Bailey
Now that the race is slipping away from her, will she please start to run some sort of affirmative campaign that consists of something other than “I’m qualified” and “I’m not Trump?”
Time is ticking.
JPL
This election should not even be a contest.
Trentrunner
@Bailey: When your opponent is Trump, “I’m qualified” is about as affirmative, contrasting a statement as you can make.
Betty Cracker
@Bailey: There are none so deaf as those who will not hear.
Emma
@Bailey: How many times does she have to say it before people hear her? I have seen both positive and negative ads from her. I guess the negative sticks but the positive doesn’t?
Elizabelle
@Bailey: Just for you, special snowflake Bailey:
Kevin Drum: The Progressive Case for Hillary Clinton is Pretty Overwhelming
Besides which, being qualified is a huge consideration. She’s the only candidate in the race who is. Period.
hovercraft
@Trentrunner:
Giving specific answers, such a novel approach. And she delivers the bitch slap very deftly. Secret plan!
ruemara
@JPL: The tribalism and innate hatred of the other ALWAYS meant it would be a contest. This bizarre idea that people are using logic to decide whom to support has always confounded me.
Anyway, great news! Found my green card. Twas in a security wallet I thought was empty. Because not using things for 2 years leads you to such thoughts. I will be sure to put it away, but thanks Saint Anthony, the fairies, genus loci, grandma and the ancestors (my senior citizen grateful dead cover band name), whatever made me check.
Betty Cracker
I like that she said Trump’s secret plan to destroy ISIS is that he has no fucking plan. His absurdist exchange with DoorMatt on that point should have received far more coverage than it did.
germy
Elizabelle
@ruemara: Good to hear.
And yes, zing, Trump has no plan.
Only caught half of the presser, but Hillary pretty much spoke in words of one syllable. Which you need, in dealing with the political reporting press and GOP.
SenyorDave
@hovercraft: Giving specific answers, such a novel approach. And she delivers the bitch slap very deftly. Secret plan!
I hope she is able to use that in the debates.
SenyorDave
@germy: Jill Stein: Trump may have ‘memory problem’ – The physician turned Green Party candidate sees signs of health, mental, cognitive issues in the man atop the GOP ticket. By Glenn Thrush
The only possible redemption for Jill Stein is if she formally endorses Hillary Clinton. Otherwise, the so-called progressive in the race is one of Trump’s biggest assets. I know a lot of people are not deep thinkers, but Jill Stein is a medical doctor!
Patricia Kayden
@hovercraft: I hope she does a press conference every day. The media may be bored with her policy discussions but she needs to reach out to potential voters with what she’ll do if she’s elected. Good for her.
Bailey
@Betty Cracker:
She’s not hitting an entire generation of voters, so you know, maybe there’s something wrong with her campaign? So far it’s about as impotent as John Kerry’s run in 2004.
Bailey
@Patricia Kayden:
Exactly. You said something completely sane and obvious and it is exactly what her campaign should be doing. But pointing that out around here is to risk upsetting the closed feedback loop.
comrade scott's agenda of rage
@SenyorDave:
Remember, the Green Party can always be counted on to do what’s best for the GOP.
Bailey
@Elizabelle:
If you think being “qualified” is enough for any job, let alone the presidency, you may have been out of the workplace or the interview process for the last several years. No, you actually need to articulate what you’re about and what you will do. “I’m qualified” doesn’t cut it.
Elizabelle
Fuck Carol Costello. I just turned CNN off.
She talks about how scary it is in New York and Minnesota, “and you have two candidates who are just playing politics with this.”
I think she said it with a straight face. Wasn’t watching. She’s spent her segment punching holes in Hillary’s statement.
Costello earlier talked about how people can understand profiling and they can understand building a wall. You are giving them something “solid” to grasp onto.
Again, fuck Carol Costello. And CNN. They’re fearmongering. It’s CNN’s business model, when they let up on celebrity infotainment.
Costello was also tut-tutting that Hillary could get Silicon Valley to cooperate. Like Hillary has not had many conversations with the tech community, or wasn’t Secretary of State. But Costello is the pro, I guess. Or whatever 30 year old producer was whispering into her earpiece.
hovercraft
@Bailey:
Hillary has this thing called a web site, if you go onto said website and watch her speeches you will see that in every speech she makes an affirmative case for herself. She gives specific plans to address the challenges facing our country. The only speeches that do not focus on her affirmative case are those like the Nevada speech, which was specifically for the purpose of denouncing Donald Trump’s connections to the Alt-right. The media has no desire to dwell on her policies, that would require them to try and understand the policies in order to evaluate them, they instead choose to focus on anything she says that is critical of her opponent. Remember that back during the passage of Obamacare, Obama gave a press conference about the new law/legislation for over an hour, and then the last question was from April Ryan asking him what he thought of Skip Gates being arrested on his front porch for breaking and entering and resisting arrest. The media spent the next week discussing the presidents comment that the “police acted stupidly.” Then the media turned around and blamed the unpopularity for the law on Obama for not explaining it to the American people. How exactly is she supposed to force the media to focus on her plans and not the horse race? She gives a speech and they don’t carry it live, and only dip in when she attacks her opponent. She’s running both positive and negative Ads, what else do you want her to do?
Mike E
Don’t give Bailey any Quarter!
germy
@Bailey: Visit her campaign website. She has a long list there.
She gives policy speeches, but they’re ignored by the press.
EDIT: Okay Hovercraft said it first, and better.
schrodinger's cat
Has anyone seen Bailey and NR in the same room?
schrodinger's cat
@Mike E: Old troll, new name.
MattF
It’s not even “dog-ate-homework”. It’s “I don’t need a plan because I’m Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me.”
Betty Cracker
@germy: Well, he or she ignored the link Elizabelle provided that answered his or her question, preferring to harp on the “qualified” point that the link debunks instead. That tells me that what we have here, fellow commenters, is a concern troll who is deeply concerned. I will waste no more time with it, but y’all have fun!
Elizabelle
@schrodinger’s cat: Yeah. I was about to reply to Bailey, but realized it would be troll-feeding.
And this “Bailey” is in to disrupt after Hillary gave a very good press conference.
Ignore the troll. Don’t let him/her/it derail the thread.
Just say no.
Bailey
@hovercraft:
1. Telling a voter to “go to her website” is not a good short cut to actually discussing issues. As loathesome and deplorable as he is, Trump does not tell his voters to do that because he knows that they will not. He spends virtually every speech actually saying what he will do. Granted, he speaks in generalities and of fairy tales of awful things he will do, but he has got that communication point mastered.
“Go to my website” is pretty much the worst thing you can tell a voter.
2. HRC has stayed so far away from press conferences for nearly a year, that all of her accumulated speeches in front of smaller crowds or local markets are pretty much useless since they don’t get national traction or hit the audiences that need reaching. She has made an art of NOT speaking nationally with the national press corp and if she wants to stop her slide, seriously needs to re-engage and her hit themes and her attributes there.
mapaghimagsik
@Betty Cracker:
Agreed. Though might I amend “There are none so deaf as those that only watch/follow the news outlets that refuse to give a reasonable level of coverage to the sane candidate”
Kay
People are kidding themselves about Trump and war. He can’t wait to invade somewhere.
People who are obsessed with power and dominance and ego are always very reluctant to use power. Yeah, right.
The idea that he’s a “non-interventionist” is laughable. He’ll barge in and break things. Guaranteed.
Elizabelle
There is nothing whatsoever on the NY times website about Hillary’s press conference.
Nothing.
Bailey
@Betty Cracker:
I didn’t ignore the link. I’m also not in doubt that she is qualified and certainly much preferable. But what good is an article from Mother Jones if the candidate can’t / won’t make the same case about herself? HRC can have all the amazing surrogates in the world, but at the end of the day, she needs to sell herself, not rely on the recommendations of others.
This is basic job interviewing stuff.
Elizabelle
@Kay: I loved hearing that jobs are out in force in Ohio. Thank you for that data bit; not something I was aware of, since the sky is falling, falling, falling.
Patricia Kayden
@hovercraft:
Ding ding ding ding ding!
But she can still continue to hold press conferences where the media will be forced to cover her policy talking points and her surrogates should be speaking about her policies as much as possible whenever they’re on CNN, MSNBC, etc. That’s all she can do at this point since for some reason, too many Americans are attracted to a Bigoted, unqualified Idiot, who has no filter and little to say about his actual policy plans.
Ruviana
@Mike E: I swear I thought turkeys could fly!
germy
Here’s something to REALLY piss off Balloon-Juicers
Trump doesn’t want the government meddling in the dog chow business with pesky regulations and food inspections.
MattF
@Elizabelle: You’re suggesting that a newspaper should cover the news. False equivalence! Or… something…
Betty Cracker
@Kay: Trump said it himself the other day when he promised to blow Iranian patrol boats out of the water if an Iranian sailor gives one of our Navy ships the bird. He’s a walking collection of personality disorders. Of course he’d respond to personal insults with Hellfire missiles.
Bailey
@schrodinger’s cat:
Sure, I’m the troll. Meanwhile, our candidate’s odds of clinching this election slip more drastically every day.
JPL
Lester Holt needs to push Trump to answer, or tell the audience that Mr. Trump refused to answer the question.
I’ll be good is not an answer.
germy
@Elizabelle:
But weren’t they the ones who were shouting the “countdown” the loudest?
Bailey
@Patricia Kayden:
Thank you. Again with the common sense statement. Are you sure you’re not a troll, too?
Kay
Remember this strutting and crowing?
On steroids with Trump. If they think Clinton is hawkish wait ’til they get a load of the thin-skinned, unstable moron pursuing a personal vendetta.
gvg
@Bailey: Haven’t you noticed the Press doesn’t even cover the Presidents speeches most of the time? She does actually make her case every day, but the press doesn’t broadcast it. It’s worse on Democrats but they don’t cover republicans that well either. The press or the TV owners don’t like long factual speeches and hardly ever show them. I actually think the candidate Obama got lucky a few times. This is a separate problem that exists all the time, not just during campaign season. Serious long detailed reporting of the news we should get isn’t being done. I have no idea what to do about it. Fluffy sensational dumb stuff gets lots of coverage. This is also why we have Trump who is actually good at being appalling in ways that get TV attention.
cokane
@Kay: ya still don’t get how Mr. “I would not have pulled out of Iraq” and “I’m going to tear up the treaty with Iran” is the non-interventionist candidate… just amazing there hasn’t been more pushback on these two points. fuck the debate about his iraq position in 2003, the “i would have stayed in iraq” is way more indefensible and ridiculous
Adam C
It would have ended any Democratic campaign. Republicans are automatically good at National Security because, you know, strong father figure or whatever. Trump would be “tough”, he doesn’t need a plan.
different-church-lady
@Bailey: Hillary is not telling voters to go to her website. BJ’s are telling you to go to her website so you can see that she is doing the very thing you claim she is not doing.
Elizabelle
@MattF: I was maybe too hard on the NYTimes. Nothing up on the WaPost either. But I’d figured they could have a photo and a little blurb.
Looking for a transcript, when it’s up.
Patricia Kayden
@Elizabelle: This! The press ignores her and then we have people shouting that she hasn’t put her policies before the voting public. It’s frustrating. The irony is that if she was a loudmouthed Idiot like Trump, the media would trip over itself to cover every fart she sends out into the atmosphere.
Aaargh!
germy
@JPL: Lester works for NBC. Same boss as Matt L. He seems like a nice, serious man but I expect he’ll get a stern briefing before the debate; a briefing full of challenging questions for Clinton.
hovercraft
@Elizabelle:
It’s hit or miss depending on the time of day, there are certain hours of programming I simply won’t watch, Andrea Mitchell. Overall the coverage is terrible, these people are a bunch of cowards who are eager to jettison other peoples civil liberties at the first sign of trouble. The constitution is only useful in good times apparently.
MattF
@Kay: I’d assumed that his prized possession was the flight-suit codpiece. Live and learn.
Suzanne
@schrodinger’s cat: I had the same thought: TOTES NR.
I read this today on Political Wire and SMH:
I can’t. I just can’t.
I can’t believe that I have to share a country in which a significant portion of the population thinks that the above is not a problem.
Prescott Cactus
@ruemara:
Much congrats ! ! !
Kay
@Betty Cracker:
It’s an absolute given. He may start a war even without getting elected.
We’ll know because he’ll put on his “serious” face- the one where he looks like a 7th grader who practices in the mirror.
He may demand a Supreme Commander uniform. They’re flattering, uniforms.
The Other Bob
A candidate must give people a reason to vote FOR them, not just against their opponent. Maybe H. Clinton is running positive ads in states outside mine (Michigan), but I have not seen any pro-Clinton ads online or anywhere. What are others seeing?
Obama gave the country a reason to vote for him. He was clam and measured and gave an optimistic view of the future. This year, the Democratic Convention showcased a very positive vision and it worked in the polls. I don’t think H. Clinton is doing the same. Tell me if I am wrong.
Peale
@Kay: Yep. Our only hope is that he thinks the lack of a Patton and shortfall of ships (we need 600!) will make him think that the Military is a disaster that can’t be used right now.
LOL. LOL. If Trump wins, Obama has 2 months to figure out how to scuttle the fleet so the Nazis can’t use it.
Major Major Major Major
Man, this Bailey fellow (trolls are men right?) is fresh out of the Scrag Institute for Media Credulity and the Study of Hand-Wringing, isn’t it? Doesn’t even seem to have paid attention in lectures.
Felonius Monk
@Bailey:
And exactly how are you helping to get her message out to the “missing genertion”? I presume if you feel this is really important that you’ve been furiously phone banking, canvassing, etc. to GOTV.
Chyron HR
@Bailey:
Well, a few hours ago a representative of the Surrender Dorothy Party was showing us that Clinton’s support among millennials was great in August and dropped precipitously in the last week, so apparently she made her case just fine and you guys bailed because she got pneumonia.
Bailey
@different-church-lady:
Sorry, but I’ve heard Hillary say the same thing.
But again, whether HRC says it or BJ commentators say it, she has shot herself in the foot by ignoring the biggest mouth piece she could have had for the entire campaign, i.e. the press corp following her. I’m hoping she’ll turn that around. It is indisputable that she is not reaching huge swaths of voters by her preferred method.
Betty Cracker
@Kay: Some people are saying it would have large epaulets, a crimson sash and many ribbons.
tobie
@Betty Cracker:
Yes, another one of those remarkable moments, where Trump revealed the kind of danger and mayhem he would bring to the international order if he were President, that the media chose to skip right past. Imagine if Clinton made such a claim…
MattF
@Kay: This uniform seems about right.
Kay
@Suzanne:
Hey, would someone in celebrity media tell him this means “boots on the ground”? WTF? He’s telling them what he’ll do and they’re writing columns about how he’s a non-interventionist. Like he has a philosophy. They essentially put words in his mouth.
What would be the next question if Hillary Clinton said she wants to “get tough with them” “over there”?
hovercraft
@Betty Cracker:
And to turn Airforce One around and storm off in a snit over the lack of the red carpeted stairway. Blow off the 19 largest economies in the would as part of a temper tantrum, is sure to make us safer. His constant need for ego stroking and to prove he has the biggest dick (not), is too dangerous.
different-church-lady
@The Other Bob: from my vantage point I have seen a mix of positive and negative ads, while the press coverage and cable news porn has focused exclusively on the negative attacks on Trump in her speeches.
As pointed out above, she states a positive case for herself, but it generates no buzz in the media, so it appears absent
Bailey
@Chyron HR:
I’m not a millennial so not sure what the “you guys” is all about.
Beyond that, I’d say that HRC had not done a very good job heading off the vote ciphoners of Johnson and Stein. And also that, as unforeseeable as it was, the way her pneumonia was handled fed directly into what voters are concerned with her about with respect to her communication.
Patricia Kayden
@The Other Bob: What reason is Trump giving his voters to support and vote for him? The man hasn’t provided any concrete plans/policies which are actually doable and constitutional. But yes, of course, Secretary Clinton needs to tout what she brings to the table and make sure that voters hear and understand what she will do if elected. I’m optimistic that she will continue to hold press conferences and get her message out, which is difficult given the media’s antipathy to substantive policy discussions versus hype.
Elizabelle
@Major Major Major Major: “The Scrag Institute.” Love it.
You have some writing chops.
Seanly
I read an article last night that some of the polling firms, particularly CNN, had changed their internals to make the race seem closer. And that while we need to work hard as hell still, the race is still the 3 to 4% Clinton advantage. So I’m concerned but not eying that jug of Drano…
Bailey
@Felonius Monk:
I love that “missing generation” is in quotes as if it isn’t totally obvious that HRC does not have the support of the millennial generation that Obama does / did.
Beyond that, how I spend my off time advocating for her is entirely irrelevant to how she spends her on time advocating for herself. Good grief.
Bostondreams
@Bailey:
If they are voting for Stein or Johnson, they never were going to vote for her anyway. Especially Johnson voters.
Karen S.
@gvg:
This is exactly what I was thinking. HRC can give press conferences twice a day every day and it probably will NOT get the press to cover what she says she wants to as president. They’ll continue to be disingenuous in their coverage of her. Political news coverage, as carried out by traditional print and network/cable TV outlets, is useless, given how starstruck media minions are by Trump. I’m trying to be more active in learning about HRC’s policies because I have to be. Mainstream media is really not informative at all.
Major Major Major Major
@Elizabelle: aw, thanks ?
OzarkHillbilly
@Bailey: THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!
Bailey
@The Other Bob:
You aren’t wrong. But apparently you are also a troll. Welcome to the club.
Major Major Major Major
I saw a poll that showed Trump had gained from 4% to 20% with African-Americans, (no really this was in the paper today) so clearly we’re doomed.
different-church-lady
@Seanly: I’ve been contemplating what kind of cocktail mixers go with Liquid Plumr
Kay
@Peale:
Oh, don’t worry. The GOP Congress will stop him.
They’ve been so incredibly principled, brave and stalwart so far. Paul Ryan will pray on it.
I don’t think the governor of Ohio can provide a “check and balance” to the President, and he seems to be the only one in that Party who hasn’t lost his mind.
Betty Cracker
@The Other Bob: I’m in FL, and I’ve seen both positive and negative ads here. Couldn’t say which organizations are running them, but one positive pro-Clinton ad I’ve seen repeatedly features Biden singing her praises.
burnspbesq
@Mike E:
Les Nessman saw what you did there.
Bostondreams
@Bailey:
Clinton is running positive ads all over Florida. I’ve seen and heard a couple. One is Biden. The other is someone talking about CHIP. Very good ads.
burnspbesq
@Bailey:
Your ideas are not unwelcome. You are unwelcome. This is not a place that suffers sanctimonious assholes gladly.
Elizabelle
PBO to speak about 11:30.
Chyron HR
@Bailey:
Nobody is calling any of these other people trolls, so you know, maybe there’s just something wrong with the way you express yourself?
Major Major Major Major
@Betty Cracker: lies. Everybody Knows™ that Shitlery only talks about how eebul Trump is and has no policy positions or stated reasons to vote for her, and as a woman needs to work harder to be inspiring, possibly by smiling.
Keith G
Among Trump’s bigger issues as a person and a candidate is that he compulsively needs to be in the spotlight. That leads to a dilemma: An obedient spotlight is Trump’s friend, but an independant and penetrating spotlight will fry him the way a magnifying glass nukes an ant. Two weeks ago, Trump was beginning to show signs of crispiness when Hillary managed to pull the focus onto her.
Trump, ever the imbecile had managed to jerk the focus back to him and he is suffering for it.
Please Hillary…fucking please, do find a way not to intervene again.
randy khan
@Bailey:
This is a remarkably silly analogy, but if you really want to go there, the situation is that there are 4 candidates for the job. Two are manifestly unqualified by lack of experience, lack of knowledge of key issues affecting the job, etc. A third candidate is all of those things plus quite possibly insane. The fourth candidate is quite qualified and obviously sane. I think it’s pretty clear who you hire. It doesn’t matter if the fourth candidate articulates a vision or whatever it is you say you want because you’d never hire any of the other three.
Plus, of course, that she’s been doing what you want the whole campaign, even if you don’t deign to notice.
tobie
Am not good at linking but this article in Time on HRC’s presser was really encouraging:
nonynony
@Bostondreams: I’ve seen more positive Clinton ads in Ohio than negative ones. In fact the only negative one that I can think of off the top of my head was the one where Trump is making fun of the disabled reporter with the kids watching.
Otherwise it’s all Clinton’s ideas on health, energy policy and security from what I’ve seen. And all of the radio ads from the Clinton campaign I’ve heard have been positive – though mostly the only one I’ve been hearing is the one about S-CHIP (which is a solid ad I think).
I think people following major media coverage are getting a skewed impression of what the ad campaigns in the various states are really like. The ads are mostly positive for Clinton and mostly nonexistent for Trump so far. There are issue groups for Trump – like the truly terrible anti-Clinton NRA ad that I swear only works if you’re already a gun nut – but actual Trump ads are few and far between.
But then I don’t think that ads do much to move the needle personally. it’s all about GOTV at this stage, and I don’t think ads do much to GOTV.
geg6
@Bailey:
You apparently don’t live in a swing state because we get affirmative ads all the time. Yes, there are Trump bashing ads, but I have seen numerous ads touting her economic and healthcare policies here in Western PA.
Bailey
@burnspbesq:
Are you sure about that? Because apparently you’re posting here.
This place has been entirely close-minded when it comes to HRC and anyone who might have an opinion that suggests she was not a good candidate. (Which is different than being either a.) qualified or b.) a good president.) But, thus far, she is an abysmal candidate that is losing ground every single day. Pointing that out shouldn’t get one labeled a troll or a sanctimonious asshole. BJ has sunk to the bunker mentality of Baghdad Bob which is depressing because it used to be one of my favorite spots on the web.
Suzanne
@Kay: RIGHT. Insofar as he has a consistent viewpoint, it is Blowing Shit Up. Using the military. In other countries. More commonly known as “war”. And yet……does anyone in the MSM try to hang this shit on him? No, of course not: HILLARY’Z EMAILZ! Benghazi!!! Pneumonia!!!!
This republic may deserve to die. There are plenty of good people who deserve good government, but I can’t help but think that we get what we collectively deserve, good and hard.
Elizabelle
I think we’re beset with a troll, concern troll or not, but the issue is: how does a candidate get beyond the media filter? And the filter is appalling, and biased towards sensationalism, in this country.
It’s interesting to me that Europeans have a far different view of Hillary Clinton, because they’re not seeing the daily character assassination. And they take the danger of a President Trump very seriously. Several have seen their countries fall to dictators. They live with the aftereffects.
Bailey
@geg6:
And yet it is in the swing states where she’s losing the most traction.
Felonius Monk
@OzarkHillbilly: Call in the DEPENDS team. There is pantswetting in Aisles #70 & #74.
Tazj
@Elizabelle: I’m glad I wasn’t watching. What an absolute idiot Costello is. I wonder if her analysis becomes this stupid when a mass shooting happens. Does she demand that the police go door to door confiscating guns or profiling all gun owners. Yes, it would be fantastic if a candidate promised impossible things just so some people don’t panic. Hillary was very calm and informative with her response.
You know one thing my husband has always told me when responding to an emergency(he’s an md and I’m a nurse and I wish he would take his own advice in regards to this election), panicking never helps. He tells everyone this while managing a code. You have to slow down and think about what you are doing.
I thought these anchors were supposed to just report the news.
Botsplainer
@Suzanne:
That’s the kind of shit that gets international leaders into the dock at The Hague.
Hal
@Seanly: I have accepted that Clinton may not win this race by a huge margin, and I’m fine with that. 3 points is 3 points, and if Johnson and stein get 8 or 10% combined, that at least means a comfortable majority of the country did not want him as President.
Calouste
It would only have ended a Democrat’s campaign. Sanders spewed 2-3 months of dog-ate-my-homework bullshit about his tax returns and there are still people who support him.
And I’m sure you can find dog-ate-my-homework statements from all the 16 dwarfs who finished behind Glow White in the GOP primary, except Jim Gillmore, because you can’t find anything about Jim Gillmore.
randy khan
@Bailey:
Then maybe your ideas are wrong.
Elizabelle
@randy khan: WRT the job analogy: And further, the “HR” department refuses to send you the paperwork/resume on the sane candidate, because “HR” lives for drama. Makes “HR” seem way more important than that snoozy “Operations” department. Boring stuff.
ETA: Plus, “HR” doesn’t care if your candidate succeeds or not. Job fail — more work for them!
gene108
I missed the C-in-C forum, but the last quote at the OP should get more push back, “there’ll be different generals”. WTF?
He’s going to purge the military of people, who do not automatically agree with him, like Stalin did in the 1930’s?
That’s nuts.
It should send shivers up the spine of folks.
He’s going to politicize the military from day one, where the only way forward is to be a yes-man to Trump.
I think he’d love to have a cult of personality in the USA.
cokane
@Suzanne: we disagreed previously, but yeah this is spot on. We got lucky w/ Obama, and got better than we deserved. That Trump polls anything above the 40s is just proof Rev. Wright had a bit of a point.
#NotAllAmericans of course
OzarkHillbilly
@gene108:
He already does.
bystander
Obama speaking. The bombing suspect is in custody. Yay!
Elizabelle
No drama Obama up. Called the weapon a “what was apparently a pipe bomb in New Jersey.”
Perspective, peeps.
Peale
@bystander: Our system is failing! it took hours to crack the case! Plus we need to torture him right away
Amir Khalid
@tobie:
This is in reply to your comment #92. (The reply button was unusable because it got included in the blockquote.)
Gee, I don’t know.
could conceivably be an attempt to hint that it was, i don’t know, maybe presumptuous of Hillary to adopt a presidential tone when she’s not even been elected yet. Maybe it’s just me being paranoid.
OzarkHillbilly
@bystander: Obama lies. Trump personally hunted him down and captured him.
srv
The Lurking Realists of BJ need to save their energy and come back in a few months when the Hillbot purging begins.
SenyorDave
@Kay: I don’t think the governor of Ohio can provide a “check and balance” to the President, and he seems to be the only one in that Party who hasn’t lost his mind.
I keep wondering if Kasich will reach a point where he makes the political calculation that he will be better off if he specifically says don’t vote for Trump, he’s not fit to be president. Kasich is a pretty standard modern Republican, but i gather he really loathes Trump, plus Kasich is very popular in Ohio.
geg6
@Bailey:
So you do nothing, then. So correct, you are a concern troll.
I canvass and phone bank in general and I interact with the youngs in person and through social media all the time. I do this because I happen to know a lot of them. If they aren’t getting the information they need after all that, then it’s on them and not me or Hillary. I doubt you know anything about any of it, really. You don’t seem to have any actual information about what Hillary is doing and don’t even seem to be doing anything to assuage your concerns. So forgive me if I think you’re full of shit.
Elizabelle
Reassuring and realistic presser. Talks about terrorists wanting to inspire fear. “We all have a role to play as citizens in making sure that we don’t succumb to that fear. And there is no better example than the people of NY and NJ.”
A shout out to the tough, non pantswetters among us.
1,000 Flouncing Lurkers (was fidelioscabinet)
@Bailey: It’s interesting you should say that, because I hadn’t heard of any national-level journalists being kicked out of any on her speeches or rallies–unlike, say, Jorge Ramos being expelled by Trump. If a reporter can’t deign to pick up points from a speech–the text of which is available on her website, along with a great deal of other information–then they aren’t much of a reporter. It may be asking too much of a voter to read her website to get the fine details, but it is bloody well not too much to ask of a working reporter. There is a great deal more to that job than simply attending a regularly-scheduled press conference, and any reporter who’d like to believe that’s all the effort that should be required of them is either disgracefully lazy, exceedingly ill-trained, or utterly incompetent. A good reporter does not lounge about idly, waiting for tidbits to be dropped before them, like a carp in an ornamental pond.
If the national press is sullen because Hillary Clinton won’t make their lives easier on a regularly- and conveniently-scheduled basis, they can thank themselves, for having done a lousy job covering the Clintons since 1992. IIRC, it took Larry Flynt to help expose Newt Gingrich’s immense hypocrisy in attacking Bill Clinton’s personal life. It’s easy to blame other people for the failures that result from lazy complacency, but after a while people start to notice, and all the whining and sniveling the press and their apologists can summon up begin to ring pretty hollow.
Suzanne
@cokane: Eh, disagreement is what we do here, it’s all good.
I just really have trouble looking at this without thinking that we are getting what we deserve. Of course, not individually. And the worst part is that the people who deserve it the least will suffer the most under a Trump presidency. Even if Trump loses, he has done possibly irreparable damage to our democracy and to our society. And the huge portion of the country, INCLUDING MY DOUCHEBAG FATHER GOD THAT IS SO HUMILIATING THAT I SHARE DNA WITH THAT FUCKER, that thinks that this complete and utter moron is not just an okay guy, but suitable to hold the most important job in the world, absolutely terrifies me—and they are my neighbors and colleagues and countrymen.
raven
Sounds like they got him
mr_gravity
My inbox has about 23 spams from the DCCC with the subject line some variation of: WE’RE. ALL. GONNA. DIE!!
Many of them are linked to surveys with bone-headed questions like; “Do you think Hillary can win?’ You click yes and you’re immediately asked to donate. Many of these solicitations now seem to have a shaming quality: Do You Really Want Tr*mp To Win?!! IF HE DOES IT’S YOUR FAULT!!
I give. Seriously. How about an occasional email with a “Thanks for your support” message?
Sorry for the mini rant but it’s Monday morning here. A little good news would be…good.
Elizabelle
@SenyorDave: Former Defense Secretary Bob Gates went there. Called Trump out for being totally unqualified.
That does not seem to be in the headlines. Mmmmmmm.
Suzanne
@geg6: I canvassed yesterday and there were a lot of college students there and I felt old. It renewed my faith.
Bailey
@geg6:
Um, no. I’m not sure where you got that. However, the amount of time or money that I’ve donated are still pretty much irrelevant compared to what the candidate is not doing.
Okay, thanks for posting on facebook.
MattF
@mr_gravity: I contributed to Clinton’s campaign, and was surprised at how little email I got. Then– I discovered it was all ending up in my gmail spam folder. The answer is to unsubscribe.
geg6
@Bailey:
Not really in mine. So make of that what you will.
Elizabelle
@1,000 Flouncing Lurkers (was fidelioscabinet):
Love it. And then reminding us of Larry Flynt’s service to the republic.
Why I come to Balloon Juice.
Bailey
@1,000 Flouncing Lurkers (was fidelioscabinet):
Okay, I get that you are morally outraged by the national press. Fair enough. However, not conducting regular press conferences, in a very practical way, does not resolve the outrage nor does it communicate her message. That’s reality.
different-church-lady
@burnspbesq: However, many other kinds of assholes are welcome with open arms.
(This would also be a fun time to note that iOS 9 apparently precludes “asshole” from its auto-competion list. )
Patricia Kayden
@Elizabelle: The Canadian friends and family I have also have a favorable view of the Clintons and are shocked that as apparently deranged as Trump could possibly be President — especially since they all love and admire our current POTUS. I had to explain to my Sister recently that the media in the U.S. has really done a good job of tearing down Secretary Clinton. It’s rather shocking to outsiders how close this election has become (and frightening to them as well).
Chyron HR
@geg6:
@Bailey:
And yet some people still have the nerve to suggest that you’re not here to engage in honest debate.
Bailey
@geg6:
All that tells me is that you maybe live in PA or NH.
However, Trump is now polling ahead in Iowa and Ohio, and is all but tied in Florida, Nevada and North Carolina.
raven
Why are you folks arguing with this jackass?
Matt McIrvin
@Suzanne:
Always remember: there is no karmic justice here. Black and brown people will primarily suffer because white people had a tantrum. So it has been since white people landed on the continent.
Major Major Major Major
@Bailey: losing ground every day? That’s manifestly untrue.
Elizabelle
@Patricia Kayden: I would like to see major improvements in our presidential election process under discussion after November 9th. Campaign is too long, and too noninformative and, as Kay reminds, a brazen candidate can get away with nondisclosure of all manner of information voters need.
It’s an industry, growing like a cancer.
So: maybe some of cable’s insane coverage is because they know they LIKE Citizens United, it makes them money, and they want to preserve and protect that horrible fruit? It’s the Supreme Court. The owners, and apparently the majority of the overpaid mouthpieces/anchors, like the John “Roger B Taney” Roberts Court just fine.
comrade scott's agenda of rage
@SenyorDave:
Only because he still talks in dog whistles and tempers the public pronouncements regarding his not-any-different-than-a-lot-of-Trump policies. In Ohio and when running for prez, Kasich declared war on women, voting rights, poor people and minorities. He just wasn’t as blunt about it. He’s as authoritarian, theocratic (maybe not Cruz-level but he’s up there) and misogynistic as Trump. Again, he just wears the mask better.
His record in OH is a ALEC/Tea Party/Social Conservative’s dream. Wolf in sheep’s clothing.
germy
Bailey
@Chyron HR:
Sorry, but someone giving so much weight to their “social media” outreach is laughable to me. Phonebanking and canvassing is great. Full disclosure since it seems required: I don’t canvass as I live in such a solidly blue state there is no point.
Elizabelle
@raven: Ignoring him/her/it.
Good morning, raven.
geg6
@Bailey:
And this is exactly why you know nothing. No, it is not irrelevant. It is also up to supporters to make the case for the candidate. You really know nothing about elections, do you?
And yes, I post on Facebook. And Instagram. Not Twitter, because I don’t know any college kids who use it. They tell me it’s for old people, which they also say about Facebook. But they do use Facebook because they keep friending me. They much prefer Instagram. I also personally interact with them every.single.day. Every day. They know me and talk to me. How many do you know and talk to every day? If it’s less than 30-50, you lose.
Hildebrand
@Bailey: @Bailey:
Let’s say we see what happens now that she is conducting regular press conferences, no? It may be a bit later than I would have liked, but I think that most Americans are really only starting to pay attention now (only the true believers and the political junkiest pay attention in August, for the rest its just too far down the road) – so let’s see how folks react to things she actually says.
raven
@Elizabelle: Hey, what’s shakin?
Bailey
@Major Major Major Major:
Okay Baghdad Bob. Her odds of winning are continuing to shrink.
Elizabelle
@geg6: Bravo! Good work!
And save your energy arguing with whatever is calling itself Bailey.
different-church-lady
Here, let me see if I can put this in a way that makes more sense: Clinton has components of seriosness and optimisim in her campagin, but as of the moment she is doing a poor job of getting them to cut through the noise.
Fair?
amk
troll: mission accomplished.
Emma
@Bailey: Then blame the idiots, not her.
geg6
@Bailey:
And just to point out again what you don’t know about the youngs.
Exactly how many of them sit and watch cable news? And how many of those will sit for a press conference? How is Hillary having a press conference going to attract millennials? Please explain, oh Millennial Whisperer?
gwangung
@Bailey: Asshole.
Troll, pure and simple.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@germy: What a dick.
comrade scott's agenda of rage
@Bostondreams:
Purely anecdotal: I have plenty of what I call “embarrassed” Republican friends. College edumacated, suburb/exurb dwellers, obviously white and all who spout the “fiscally conservative, socially libral” drivel from the 80s. They’ll never vote for a Democrat at any level. Never. But, they can’t abide by Trump and to a certain extent how the no-nothings have increased their influence in the GOP. As such, they’ve all gone to Johnson. Says a lot about how they really feel about policies.
More power to em for sending those electoral thoughts and prayers to a 3rd party candidate. As long as it happens on their side, all is good.
Elizabelle
@raven: Getting ready to head to NC to help with some politicking. Volunteering. Wanted to be there already, but stalled in Virginia with a few details. On the road again soon.
Rainy today. Going to have a great BBQ lunch.
germy
@Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap: Jill Stein suggests maybe Sanders is too old to understand how things should be.
Bailey
@geg6:
I know that the candidate should be making the case for themselves. You cannot point to any other successful election in which the candidate’s own message did not win the day.
geg6
@Bailey:
She is. Just because you can’t be bothered to pay attention does not mean it is not happening.
Joel
The trolls are everywhere today.
different-church-lady
@germy: What the everlovin’ hell is an “independent political party?” Either you’re in a party or you’re an independent. The moment you join a party you’re not an independent anymore.
Gelfling 545
@Bailey: Did you perhaps listen to her remarks this thread os focused on? I’m guessing not.
Bailey
@geg6:
It isn’t about sitting down and watching the news, cable or not. It is for providing the largest and most consistent megaphone for crafting and communicating her message. And it all can be spun off from there into different channels of communication.
HRC has tried to skate through the “noise” by ignoring that huge megaphone. And it is doing her zero favors.
tobie
@Amir Khalid: Sorry for formatting mess-ups. If you continue on in the article, you realize that Time is praising her:
That’s what made the piece encouraging.
Patricia Kayden
@raven: LOL! You know we can’t help ourselves sometimes.
germy
@different-church-lady: She’s keeping in character as a person who makes no sense.
I admire Sanders for asking his supporters (“fans” as Trump would call them) not to throw away their votes on her.
Bailey
@Gelfling 545:
I did, yes. You may have failed to notice that my first comment was about this very press conference and expressed the hope that she would start / continue to articulate affirmative themes using this method and not just run a bunch of crappy negative ads that aren’t helping her.
different-church-lady
@Bailey:
And with that I cast another vote for “troll”
gene108
@Elizabelle:
I cannot imagine another person getting the kind of pass Trump is, when people from his own Party are stating he is unqualified to be President and laying out the case in some detail.
Imagine if 50 senior Democrats declared Obama was unqualified to be President, in 2008. The media would have run with it non-stop.
But Trump is Trump.
Sort of like Homer is Homer. The lovable slacker, who lucked into a good paying job, a nice house and a loving wife.
Except of course one is a fictional character and the other could be President.
Major Major Major Major
@Bailey: also manifestly untrue. Whatever, you suck. Go not phonebank somewhere else, and enjoy not traveling outside your blue state for much needed canvassing!
Bailey
@geg6:
And yet she’s still falling far short in support of a giant demographic that she needs to win. So perhaps it is not happening effectively?
Bailey
@different-church-lady:
“Troll” because you think the candidate should NOT be making a better case for themselves? Okay. Sounds legit.
Major Major Major Major
@Bailey: Bush 2004, just off the top of my head.
Yeah yeah I’m done engaging the troll now.
nastybrutishntall
The thing that puzzles me about the media’s reluctance to eviscerate Trump and their fondness for Hillary-bashing is that Trump idolizes Putin and says that he’ll make libel laws stronger. In other words, he is telling the press that he’ll sue them or, if that doesn’t work, maybe send some guys with guns to tell them very nicely what and what not to print. How is the press ok with this? Is it delusion? Are they so blind? I really can’t fathom it. Unless it’s the owners, sick of this whole freedom of the press thing, who think they’ll be able to profit from ties to our new fascist overlords.
Bailey
@Major Major Major Major:
It’s manifestly untrue that HRC’s poll numbers are declining and her odds of winning are reducing? Okay, whatever it is you’re smoking, I hope it works for you.
And much that I’d love to be able to just travel randomly across the US canvassing and not working, it just isn’t realistic. Then again, all of your posts have shown a willingness to ignore reality so perhaps that it is to be expected.
different-church-lady
@Bailey: I do have to admit “Morons” is a pretty big demographic, yes.
Miss Bianca
@ruemara: YEAH!! Woo-hoo!! St. Anthony rules!
Bailey
@Major Major Major Major:
Bush made a case for himself, along with other unsavories. On the flip side, John Kerry never came out with anything more substantial than “I’m not Bush.” How did that work out?
Bailey
@different-church-lady:
Call them whatever you want, but HRC still needs their vote, so she better learn to speak moronic. You can blame the voters who aren’t hearing it or you can blame the candidate who isn’t articulating it. Both maybe true, but morons will always be morons, meanwhile the candidate has the opportunity to adapt.
You choose which is more likely.
different-church-lady
@Bailey: no, troll because you have repeatedly disregarded the evidence proffered that she is stating her case for herself.
Major Major Major Major
Can somebody summon one of the at-least-barely amusing trolls? I tire of this one.
different-church-lady
@Bailey: you know, it might be a good thing that you’re not canvassing over state lines after all…
randy khan
@Bailey:
In summary, Clinton should give more press conferences that will show up on all the media the young people ignore, making her positive case by responding to questions chosen by people other than her. That’s not a plan to solve the problem you say she has.
Frankensteinbeck
@Patricia Kayden:
But they’re not forced, and they don’t cover them. Hillary has no power to make the press cover anything. None. No candidate or politician does. She can’t have them arrested. There are no laws saying they must. They do not care about their responsibility to the public. The media will cover what it feels like covering, and it feels like totally ignoring policy. It has for at least the last two presidencies.
Bailey
@different-church-lady:
The case she’s stating thus far is, by and large (and what the vast voting population is hearing), “I’m qualified” and “I’m not Trump.” Granted, I think these are great things. But they are not enough and she needs to step it up radically.
And it really is a circular argument to assume the media won’t cover her when she spent nearly a year avoiding the media right in front of her. Trump has figured out a way to play the media. HRC still lets them play her.
cokane
@Bailey: “learn to speak moronic” and “make a positive, articulate case for herself”. basically, you want her to do everything. this is patent concern trolling. you really don’t have a coherent argument and are just lobbing whatever shit you find available, hoping something sticks.
only thing that matters is that people who know better vote. the rest is bullshit. Trump and Clinton have made their differences clear.
Ben Cisco
@SenyorDave:
Competency in one field does not necessarily equate to competency in others. #HaloEffect
Bailey
@randy khan:
Your summary is not quite right, but thanks for trying. You also ignored the part about the message being articulated specifically for the unique channels of communication that all demographics use. Look, everyone knows media communication is not a one-stop shop. But it starts at one place and HRC has ignored it for too long. Here’s hoping she turns the momentum in a new direction…
Miss Bianca
@Bailey: “This place is remarkably close-minded when I try my bullshit that Hillary Clinton is a terrible candidate and that it’s all her fault that the press do such a crappy job at doing their job of reporting her policy positions and you JUST WON’T BUY IT, and then you push back with all this contrary evidence and then you get all pissed off when I ignore it and keep repeating my concern troll talking points! WAKE UP, SHEEPLE! I’m very smart, and I know more than you do! WHY WON’T YOU LISTEN TO ME??!”
FlipYrWhig
Shorter Bailey: You’d think a candidate for president would “travel” and “speak” and “air commercials” and “run,” but as far as I can tell Hillary Clinton isn’t doing any of that!
Elizabelle
Page scan.
“Hillary”: 55 matches
“Clinton”: 51 matches
“Bailey”: 78 matches
Mission accomplished!
singfoom
@Bailey:
I only have one comment for you as you are concern trolling. You can make whatever argument you’d like that you’re not, but I’m not really interested in having a semantic argument.
The fact is that the arguments that you have heard and have listed repeatedly: “I’m qualified” and “I’m not Trump” are not the only arguments HRC is making. You may truthfully say that those are the arguments you think she is making. But your assertion that those are the only ones is factually inaccurate and myopic. Just because you hear only those arguments doesn’t mean those are the only arguments that she or her campaign are making.
But please, tell us more about how millenials aren’t paying attention to her press conferences. Good day to you.
Bailey
@cokane:
I’m sorry you feel those are contradictory statements. They are not. She needs to speak to the voters whether they are morons, geniuses, Latino, or vulcans and needs to be able to express her agenda to all. Nothing concern trolling about that—in fact, it’s pretty obvious.
Suzanne
@Matt McIrvin:
Agreed. That’s why I keep canvassing and volunteering in my red-ass state.
1,000 Flouncing Lurkers (was fidelioscabinet)
@different-church-lady: Yes, and finding a way to cut through not just the noise but what seems, in some cases, willful determination to focus on issues that are either irrelevant or are so far behind the times their relevance has diminished past the point where they merit the level of coverage they’re getting is a constant challenge.
Bailey
@FlipYrWhig:
Shorter FlipYrWhig: Missing the argument that HRC is being incredibly ineffective and is missing the same levels of necessary support that her predecessor enjoys.
The Thin Black Duke
@singfoom: Thank you.
MomSense
@Ben Cisco:
See Dr Ben Carson as a perfect example.
1,000 Flouncing Lurkers (was fidelioscabinet)
@different-church-lady: You know, this is rather like working over a piñata, except that all the candy in this one comes in just one flavor–possibly watermelon-flavored Jolly Ranchers.
singfoom
Outside of troll feeding,
Somehow, I don’t think we’re ever going to see the media hit Trump as hard as they do HRC. Some of them will, but the vast majority won’t call a lie a lie right after he says it. The whole exchange above is emblematic of the difference. They don’t start every single interview or press conference with Trump with a question about his foundation, his tax returns.
But somehow it’s ‘working the refs’ to complain about the imbalance in coverage. At least the media seemed to wake up a little bit about the whole birther/racism nonsense. We’ll see if they go back to sleep.
different-church-lady
@Bailey: it’s kinda nice how you’ve moderated your position from “no effort” to “ineffective” without any notice of the change.
different-church-lady
@1,000 Flouncing Lurkers (was fidelioscabinet): you really think there’s candy in that thing?
cokane
@Bailey: “She needs to express her agenda to all… in fact, it’s pretty obvious”
Meaningless pablum masquerading as insight
randy khan
@Bailey:
I’m really only responding to you because it’s amusing, to be honest.
That said, for at least the first twenty of your posts, your only prescription for Clinton to get her positive message out to millennials was for her to hold press conferences. I’m really not sure what else you want her to do. But, for instance, if you want her to put her positive message on Twitter, she’s doing that. If you want her to put her positive message on Instagram, she’s doing that. Or did you not bother to look at either Twitter or Instagram before you made your post?
1,000 Flouncing Lurkers (was fidelioscabinet)
@nastybrutishntall: They are oblivious. They are, for the most part, white people who have grown up with a certain level of privilege and whose travels outside this country have not exposed them to a level of personal risk that might convince them anything bad could happen to them that can’t be resolved by a quick application of cash or clout.
We enjoy mocking Thomas Friedman around this joint, but it’s interesting how different his reaction to Trump is, compared to people who don’t have his level of foreign experience. Friedman knows enough to be scared, and to come out and say so plainly.
chopper
you’d think all the hand-wringing would cramp up the hands and make typing harder for people.
Major Major Major Major
@chopper: Or at least get blood all over their keyboards.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@cokane: The worst conventional wisdom. Everyone of these unflushables has the same schtick. They know what they know, except they don’t know anything.
Bailey
@cokane:
So she has the same level of support that Obama has or not? (Hint: the answer is “not.”) Since she doesn’t, what is the problem? And how come many of these voters she’s missing describe the same thing? i.e. that she doesn’t stand for anything?
1,000 Flouncing Lurkers (was fidelioscabinet)
@Major Major Major Major: Yeah, the candy inside isn’t even the good stuff. It’s fall already, there should at least be some packets of candy corn in there.
@different-church-lady: Like I said, it’s those watermelon-flavored Jolly Ranchers. Nothing worth picking up off the ground.
Bailey
@chopper:
You’d think all the heads up asses would limit the view of reality. Oh wait….
Bailey
@different-church-lady:
Um, she was making “no effort” to use the national press to articulate her message. What she was doing instead has been ineffective in retaining necessary levels of support. Why you think these are concepts divorced from each other is your own problem, I guess.
Gelfling 545
@Bailey: Which, as many have told you, she has been doing regularly and that the records of such can be found at her website. Where the heck is that guy who keeps yelling at everybody for presuming to know more about campaigning than the candidate’s team when he could actually be of use?
Bailey
@randy khan:
If it’s amusing to witness bunker mentality, then yes, I agree with you!
My first comments were involving the press conferences because it was the most obvious point of engagement that she was missing and it was hurting her. In no way was it meant to suggest that that was all she do, for pete’s sake.
On the flipside, Trump never saw a press conference he didn’t roll around in. As a result she gave free airtime to Trump who runs virtually no ads at all and is still even with her.
cokane
@Bailey: Obama is a once in a lifetime caliber candidate. The voters do not, and did not, deserve a president of that quality. I’m so sick of people demanding sparkle pony goodness from our candidates while failing to hold the electorate to any standard, much less an equal one.
Steeplejack (tablet)
@Elizabelle:
Where you getting BBQ? I need to find a good place around here. Have to admit I haven’t looked very hard.
cokane
@cokane: addendum, a perfect recent example of this. Clinton’s “basket of deplorables”. Media goes aghast over this. No doubt, self assured assholes like you had some monday morning qb tut tutting about Clinton not talking to “all voters”. No one in the media, except black journalists bothered to investigate if there might be some truth to the claim.
slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/09/trump_s_basket_of_deplorables_hillary_clinton_…
If this country elects Trump, it won’t be for Clinton’s lack of effort. It will be because too many people are stupid.
Bailey
@cokane:
Regardless of the caliber of his candidacy, she still needs his level of support to win across various demographics. Nothing sparkle pony about that.
cokane
@Bailey: she actually doesnt require his level of support to win
chopper
@Bailey:
see, you’re able to type. you must have one of those voice-to-text things.
FlipYrWhig
@Bailey:
Trump doesn’t travel with the press and doesn’t give press conferences. He gives speeches. So does Hillary Clinton.
chopper
@cokane:
besides, she’s doing as well or better than O did in 2012 with a bunch of demos. women especially. one notable one she’s not doing as well with is young voters, but those shitheads never show up anyways.
FlipYrWhig
@Bailey: She’s doing very poorly among the permanently anxious, who are anxious. Also among the concerned, in similar ways.
Patricia Kayden
@Frankensteinbeck: You’re right. I assume that because the media has been clamoring for her to conduct press conferences, when she actually holds some, they’ll have to cover them. But of course, they don’t. Just my wishful thinking.
Bailey
@FlipYrWhig:
He’s had at least 17 press conferences this year alone. You might think they’re speeches because he uses the press conferences effectively to keep hammering his themes.
Larkspur
@Tazj:
Thanks for this. I have been working on my own anxieties and my inclination to panic. I keep returning to a few things I’ve read or heard about, and of course it’s mostly about situational awareness. First, Atul Gawande’s book The Checklist Manifesto is really useful. He compares better medical practices to the type of analysis used in investigating airplane accidents over the years.
That always remind me of Eastern Airlines Flight 401, which crashed in the Everglades in 1972. It was determined that the crew, in its desperate attempt to right the aircraft, failed to notice the autopilot had become disengaged, and they hit the ground before they realized they’d run out of altitude. As with most post-crash analyses, important changes resulted. The take-away from this one was, in part, “Fly the plane”. I swear, when I start to get discombobulated, I will tell myself to fly the plane. Do what you’re doing. Situational awareness.
Another thing I keep returning to is good old Mr. Rogers. I never watched him or had children who did, but I’ve never forgotten what he said about how his mom talked to him about scary things: “When I was a boy and I would see scary things in the news, my mother would say to me, ‘Look for the helpers. You will always find people who are helping.'” So I think, Look for the helpers, and I’m beginning to realize that if you can stop and think “look for the helpers”, you are far more likely to actually become a helper.
I guess this wasn’t an actual Open Thread. But it’s about panic, so I’m going with it.
Bailey
@FlipYrWhig:
If you say so. That’s not really what the polling reveals, but whatever helps you sleep at night.
chopper
@Bailey:
so she’s doing great among the permanently anxious? well that’s a feather in her cap.
Elie
@Patricia Kayden:
Agree. She needs to be visible every day. Also affirmative every day . Not just negative. Ads alone won’t do it at this stage of the campaign. And ground game which is heavily my/our responsibility
J R in WV
@different-church-lady:
Bitters.
1,000 Flouncing Lurkers (was fidelioscabinet)
@Bailey: The national-level press has to cooperate in that endeavor. If any member of the press is a golem waiting to for her to provide them with a shem, it’s news to me. It’s also news to me that any member of the press requires a press conference in order to find out what positions the candidate is running on. A press conference, in such circumstances, is for responding to something new and urgent.
Oh, look!–no, it’s another Jolly Rancher.
different-church-lady
@1,000 Flouncing Lurkers (was fidelioscabinet): Are you sure you understand the difference between a pinata and a wasp’s nest?
different-church-lady
@Bailey: Oh, yeah, your inability to communicate your ideas clearly on the first go is my fault.
Gavin
It’s fun to watch people desperately project competency onto Trump.
That dog won’t hunt, Even The Liberal NYT.
different-church-lady
@J R in WV: Look, I love bitters, but I’m thinking this is going to need a lot of syrup and grenadine to make it go down.
different-church-lady
@Gavin: Does “fun” have the same meaning in your dictionary as mine?
Bailey
@1,000 Flouncing Lurkers (was fidelioscabinet):
Yeah, because there’s not been anything new and urgent in the world since 2015 until now. Nice, Brussels, Orlando….I could go on and on…
Bailey
@different-church-lady:
Your willingness to pile on without trying to comprehend certainly is.
Major Major Major Major
Did you guys hear the one about the troll with a heart condition walking into a brothel?
1,000 Flouncing Lurkers (was fidelioscabinet)
@different-church-lady: Yes. One is a papery construct filled with stinging death. The other is a papery construct filled with treats. I really am not seeing the stinging death in this one.
Brachiator
@cokane:
Not really relevant. Some chumps used to say that Obama was no FDR.
Hillary has her own virtues. And she needs to finish with a strong campaign.
Thank goodness you are not a professional political analyst. You would guarantee a loss when you go down the path of disparaging voters for not being good enough, or being lucky that a political leader would reach down and notice them.
Clinton is the superior candidate in every way. But she has to deal with Trump’s team, who are very good at selling a shitty product.
MikeS
@Bailey: from Sam Wang at Princeton Election Consortium
1,000 Flouncing Lurkers (was fidelioscabinet)
@Bailey: And just what would a press conference from her have done in those instances? She is not a member of the current Administration, nor an elected official responsible for dealing with the consequences of those events.
Honey, does your back hurt form moving those goalposts around all by yourself? I’m afraid I don’t keep any Tylenol around, but I do have some ibuprofen. Or would you rather have a Salonpas patch to put on there? Maybe some Icy-hot or Tiger balm? Also, if your back is hurting, putting down the shovel might be a good idea.
We appear to have run out of Jolly Ranchers, and are down to the carob-covered soynuts.
Miss Bianca
@Major Major Major Major: No. Please tell me something karmically appropriate happens to him.
different-church-lady
@Bailey:
The really stupid thing here is that I agree with you about a lot of this, but I’m utterly disinclined to offer any support due to your borderline dickishness.
Say what you mean, don’t talk in absolutes, and the words, “Sorry I wasn’t clear” don’t cost a dime. Unless you’re here for an argument, in which case you’ll have to pay another £5 first.
(PS: as for my lack of comprehension effort, consider.)
different-church-lady
@MikeS: I don’t care if Sam is God, far too close for me to stop tinkering with ratio of drain cleaner to curaçao.
Amir Khalid
@Bailey:
Hillary has more presidential substance to her than anyone else who ran in 2016. What would you have people do, if you want a Democrat to win the White House in November? Revoke Hillary’s nomination and hand it to the guy she defeated? Not Gonna Happen, you must know that. Hand-wringing over the poll numbers won’t help. Looking to that kook Jill Stein, the Manic Pixie Dream Girl of presidential candidates, won’t help. The only thing that means anything now is getting out the vote. You can stand off to the side and kibitz instead if you like, but you should realise that that’s not productive.
Brachiator
I almost like this Bailey person. Is he or she new? Do political campaigns actually pay people like this to come to blogs and stir up shit with articulate but specious arguments?
Or is it DougJ being bored again?
different-church-lady
@Brachiator:
Doubtful. Style is too familiar. Also a statement along the lines of “BJ used to be a favorite place.”
Major Major Major Major
@Miss Bianca: It fucked off and died!
Bailey
@Amir Khalid:
Having more substance than anyone else in 2016 is a pretty low bar and nothing to brag about. And while it is certainly true, if she is not adequately communicating her substance, then it is a moot point. And, in fact, her attempts to deflect communication avenues hijack her agenda. Which was my point entirely.
Bailey
@different-church-lady:
The really stupid thing is that if anyone offers an opinion that deviates from “Hillary is doing an amazing job and is the best candidate ever!” it is immediately labeled “troll” and “borderline dickishness.” I’m not sure how you are going to solve that problem, but at least you admit that my discussion points are agreeable.
Back to throwing jolly ranchers around….whatever.
different-church-lady
@Bailey: I’m not sure your “Press conference = press love = poll support” formula works as neatly as you think. Under the Clinton Rules a press conference is just as much an opportunity for the press to do gotchas as it is for her to stump for herself or charm them.
different-church-lady
@Bailey: Perhaps you should consider that “acting like a troll” and “being a troll” are two different things.
Perhaps we all should.
schrodinger's cat
Bailey has totally dominated and derailed this thread (with 100+ comments and replies), with variations of Hillary sucks comments.
Good job, Bailey. I hope they are paying you well
Bailey
@Brachiator:
Yes. Clearly I’m being paid. Because the BJ comment section is such a rich vein for discussion of anything that veers off an official talking point. So much value there.
“Articulate But Specious” will now be my new band name.
randy khan
@Bailey:
On the other hand:
6-0 for Clinton in last three weeks.
Suggesting, for the 93rd time, that your initial premise was completely wrong. But I realize you don’t care, as your real premise is that Hillary Is Doing It Wrong, pretty much no matter what she does.
Miss Bianca
@Major Major Major Major: ach, ach, ach! as my old pal Popeye would put it!
Chyron HR
@Bailey:
No, not “anyone”, just you. Just you.
Bailey
@schrodinger’s cat:
Damn, that’s some amazingly reductionist conclusions you’ve drawn. I think she’s an abysmal candidate (in fact, I think she even agrees on that point and has publicly stated) but it has nothing to do with her, personally, sucking or even being a bad president. (Although if she is to be a good president, she will need to drop some of her more self-destructive tendencies.)
Many of her campaign strategies have flat out sucked, though. She should try to turn that around while there is arguably still time.
Tazj
@Larkspur: Well, I guess what I wanted to stress in my post is that what I admire most in leaders is the ability to calmly lead and uplift others in the midst of a very difficult situation. This is one of the things I love the most about Obama. His command of the facts, and the ability to explain things simply and thoroughly. Some reporters and pundits call him too professorial, I don’t agree. I think that Hillary posses these same attributes.
I worked with some doctors who were just yellers and would criticize and belittle others when frustrated. I would think to myself “that’s really not helping.” My husband, despite his political views(Trump supporter), is very good working with other people and the hospital staffs love him.
My analogy to gun violence wasn’t the greatest. I, of course believe in extensive background checks for gun owners.
Miss Bianca
@Bailey: ‘“Articulate But Specious” will now be my new band name. ‘
Well, at least it’s better than your current band, “Wake Up Sheee-ple!”, which has been playing all your tired hits so far: “I’m SO Smart (Why Won’t Anybody Here Listen to Me)”, “Hillary’s So Bad (She Probably Thinks This Song is About Her)” “I Can’t Hear You When You Try to Refute My Talking Points, La La La.” And the lamest one of all, “Look Ma, They Won’t Buy My Bullshit But At Least They Stop to Look!”
Bailey
@randy khan
Good. She should continue engaging and doing a full court press and stop ceding free territory to Trump.
Bailey
@Miss Bianca:
Ah, another person enamored with hearing themselves blather out loud. No substance, no debate, just full on bitterness.
It’s cool, Hillary’s got this one in the bag! No worries!
SFAW
@Bailey:
Don’t be an idiot. This is not flipping burgers, this is setting policy and making potentially earth-shaking decisions for the next four years. I haven’t read much of the rest of this thread — started, then did other things — but your bullshit about “in the corporate world, just being qualified isn’t enough” bullshit is useful in approximately zero ways. And knowing what the fuck she is talking about, and how to approach complex problems, is what “substance” means
And if she and her surrogates are trying, every day, to do that, while her opponent claims the sky is yellow and the sun is blue, and all the MSM can do is talk about how people don’t like Hillary, or some shiny object, or both-siderism, or veeblefetzer, then what do you propose? That she buy an hour of primetime every fucking night, to tell the world “These are my plans/policies, and Trump has nothing”? Or what, exactly? Other than some nebulous “well, she should just be doing it better!!!”
But you’re right — if only she had something like, oh I don’t know, a Campaign Manager, to work on stuff like this. Because this going-it-alone, fuck-you-all-I-know-what-to-do-better-than-any-of-you-asshole-staffers stuff might not work for her. Trump is smart enough that he can control complex organizations better than anyone in History, but Hillary’s attempts to manage her own campaign fall woefully short, because reasons.
randy khan
@Bailey:
I’m so glad you agree that Clinton can do something right. How about acknowledging that you were wrong on the facts? (Not just about this, of course, but also about her promoting her positive agenda through multiple means and her use of multiple means to do that, including speeches, TV and social media, among other things.)
And, just curious, who did you support in the primaries?
Miss Bianca
@Bailey:
Ah, another concern troll blithering, “Oh, Kettle, you’re so very, very, very black! Signed, Pot”! You sure that you and NR aren’t the same person? Because your lame schtick is identical.
ETA: And just so we’re clear, what you’re seeing isn’t “bitterness”, son – it’s called “ridicule”. But concern trolls are so used to taking themselves so very, very seriously that they just can’t understand it when someone else won’t.
Major Major Major Major
@Miss Bianca: You know, I’ve been working on some text-mining using BJ as a corpus. I’ll bet I could write a troll duplicate detector.
SFAW
@Bailey:
Interesting pot-and-kettle. You post the same “blather,” as you call it, over and over, and when people reply, you pull a Trump (“But, Ma, Hillary started it”). Plus a dose of alternate reality re: the Hillary’s-got-this snide comment.
Each time you post something like this, you provide more confirmation that you’re a troll. Smoother than most, I’ll grant, but still.
ETA: Miss Bianca @ 262: Jinx!
Turgidson
@different-church-lady:
Hillary’s attempts to answer questions usually result in press lollygaggers declaring that her responses “raise more questions.” It’s really not hard to discern why Hillary saw no upside to giving press conferences.
different-church-lady
@Turgidson: Apparently it’s harder for some than others.
chopper
@Bailey:
how do you play an instrument when you’ve wrung your hands all bloody?
Amir Khalid
@Bailey:
It may be nothing to brag about, but it does mean she’s the only candidate in the entire field who’s actually qualified to do the bloody job.
geg6
@Bailey:
You are a liar. I am done with you, troll.
different-church-lady
@Bailey:
So, do you think the sweetness of Grand Marnier to offset the bitterness of the Sodium hypochlorite, or should we go for the more refined finish of Cointreau?
Jeffro
Sorry – late to the discussion/party here (busy day the the office!) – just had to chime in and say three things:
1) Clinton’s a true leader – couldn’t be happier with her – plan on donating later and of course making sure that the volunteer coordinator has me down for registering voters this weekend.
2) Trump still, somehow, manages to make me laugh out loud. I think Betty put it best, “dog-at-my-homework bullshit”. Between his juvenile “I CALLED IT!” (what is this, the rights to riding shotgun with Mom on the way to the grocery store?) and the hilarious “Double-Secret (probation) Plan” he has to combat ISIS (formulated in advance of his becoming CinC, so better than if generals had drafted it, but he’ll still consult with some new generals, his generals, maybe, unless his plan is still better which it likely will be), he is a one-man comedy tornado. And yet…there is still a non-zero chance of him becoming the leader of the free world, and that is the opposite of funny. So, fuck him. But man he is funny sometimes.
3) Just in case everyone forgot: GOTV!!!
(oh and #4…please don’t waste y’alls time with these trolls…please…)
Bailey
@SFAW:
So many confused points in one paragraph. To clarify:
1. I do not remotely doubt her capabilities.
2. Campaigning for President is quite analogous to interviewing and campaigning for a job. (Not a burger flipping job, mind you. For those jobs they pretty much just want to know that you have a pulse and do not have a criminal record.) But if you approach any interview situation and just smugly tell the hiring managers that you’re qualified without going into detail about your vision for the role and how you might lead the particular part of business you’re after, you are not going to get the job. Even if you are qualified.
Her “likeability” to which many swear to, absolutely does not come across. And it is actually bewildering but it also is revealed in the types of ads she leans heavily on. Some are “affirmative” but most are “Trump’s bad.” This approach isn’t doing her any favors.
But consider that the less available she makes herself, the more she lets the press and her competition define her. Which is precisely why avoiding the press for so long was such a disastrous idea.
Speaking of specious arguments….every campaign has a campaign manager and every election features a campaign manager who loses or uses poor strategy.
Brachiator
@Bailey:
Nice attempt at misdirection, but no. It’s not about the NJ comments section. It’s about you.
Your comments here are exactly in line with the tack taken by Trump’s strategists. And I have not seen you here before. So, if you are not a dope with old resentment writing under a new nym, why would you otherwise waste your time posting to people who you think are unworthy?
Or do you just like the attention?
Bailey
@geg6:
LOL. A “liar?” And what have I lied about? What on earth would I have to lie about?
different-church-lady
@Bailey: It absolutely is true that at the end of a major league baseball season there are 29 managers who have been proven to be utterly incompetent, yes.
Bailey
@Brachiator:
I presume you can have site owners confirm my username, that it has never changed, and it has appeared randomly over the course of many, many years?
I don’t post when there isn’t an election at issue.
But yes, please just keep assuming that I’m a paid contributor. The paranoia is hysterical to witness.
different-church-lady
@Brachiator:
Occam’s razor and #95
SFAW
@Bailey:
Not “confused,” confusing — to you. How sad that rational, linear thought, addressing multiple points in one paragraph confuses you.
And yet, that has been done time and again, but some trolls pretend that it’s not happening, becuase “Hillary’s doing it all worng!”
Look jerkoff, instead of your “I know how to run her campaign, listen to ME ME ME!” bullshit, either call up Robby Mook (or whomever), or do some GOTV work. And the “What I do on my own time is none of your business” bullshit is just that.
And please DO try to work on your reading comprehension and critical thinking skills. I bet there are high schools in your area that can help.
Mnemosyne
@Bailey:
The only generation that’s NOT going for Hillary by a majority is the 65+ Baby Boomers. Current polls all show that a majority of Millennials are voting for Hillary.
If you have a plan to win over the 65+ Baby Boomers, let’s hear it.
Bailey
@Mnemosyne:
She does not have nearly the same margins that Obama had.
In addition, she’s losing white men of all ages.
Ironically, this is the one demographic that doesn’t timeshift their media viewing and would have been most accessible had she used the press opportunities to her advantage. And it is, of course, her own generation.
glory b
@Bailey: I’m in Western PA and I see the positive Hillary ads all the time.
Lots of anti-Trump one too, but most of those are from PACs. Can’t coordinate with them, so they do what they will.
glory b
@germy: Oh, Jill now realizes that he’s running?
Bailey
Your insulting language is so endearing. Let’s see, I’ve been “asshole” / “troll” / “jerkoff” — and yet somehow I’m the one with dickish behavior. Interesting.
Beyond that, I’m not a campaign manager nor ever claimed to be. But I can sure see when something’s not working or coming across. It’s a shame that pointing that out is such a criminal offense. I’m not sure how far the Tinkerbell “clap louder” method is going to work.
Mnemosyne
@Bailey:
Not quite: she’s losing white men of all ages who only have a high school diploma or less. She now has a majority of white men with at least one year of college or more.
You really should get your facts straight before you make an idiot of yourself like this.
It’s also, in sheer numbers, the most racist generation. Convincing a white person who was raised to think Jim Crow was normal and it was just “agitators” who thought it was bad to vote for Hillary is going to be an uphill battle.
But nice moving of the goalposts there. I especially love how you tried to pretend you weren’t initially making a false claim about Millennials.
Patricia Kayden
@Major Major Major Major: No. What happened?
Patricia Kayden
@Bailey: I know you’re like me and live in a deeply blue state (although my state now has a Repub Governor — sigh) but have you thought of volunteering in a red state or participating in a phone bank from your state vis-a-vis one which is purple? No doubt that Secretary Clinton may have to be more aggressive at getting her message before the voting public but while she’s doing her thing, we need to do ours. BR has linked to a website where we can volunteer to help Clinton win several times so I hope that we are all doing our part (including donating if we can’t actually volunteer otherwise).
different-church-lady
@Bailey: That’s a lot of words to say “-shrug-“
Major Major Major Major
Google confirms that somebody named ‘Bailey’ has commented on 34 threads, most of them in 2016. Including such gems as
That was a fun thread. Bailey went around insulting everybody and agreeing with a certain R. Mantle. Seems to fit his M.O.: Drop a bomb and then sit around insulting people who insult him for it.
And, uh, tell me more about this Bernie-pivoting-all-his-attention-to-Clinton thing?
Bailey
@Mnemosyne:
Men of all ages with less than a college course is a lot of men and represents, on aggregate, a loss of white men overall.
I’m sorry, I missed something: is Hillary black?
Good grief, you’re the person who indicated Baby Boomers +65 were the biggest problem. I responded to you. And what is the false claim about the Millennials? That she doesn’t enjoy the same level of support that Obama does? How is that false?
Bailey
@Patricia Kayden:
Where did I say I didn’t phone bank? Or that I wasn’t donating money? That was an accusation thrust upon me. I only said that I didn’t canvass because there is truly no point to it where I live and shipping off to a red state for any length of time is not a viable plan for me.
Because, you know, I’m actually NOT getting paid to participate in comment threads.
SFAW
@Bailey:
My apologies for hurting your fee-fees. I will try to do better.
You seem to be the one talking about “clap louder” the most.
You also seem resistant to doing anything substantive — your precious spare time is your own, OK fine. You’re “not a campaign manager,” but “I know what I like, and that ain’t it” schtick is just one long rant. And you have said the same thing for I-lost-count-of-how-many-times, and keep acting — or pretending to act — as though no one heard you the first 372 times, even though your oh-so-well-thought-out comments have been responded to far more than they deserve.
But you stick to your script, no matter what. And THAT is why you’re a troll.
Major Major Major Major
@Bailey: If you have a job, you should be at it right now, so you sure are getting paid while you’re commenting at the very least.
Brachiator
@Bailey:
Odd. I asked a question, but did not assume anything at all about you.
I looked over some of your posts, hoping to find an intelligent critique of the election, but there is nothing there. And in a single thread, you have quickly moved from bashing Clinton to bashing posters.
That’s a waste of my time. And so I dismiss you.
SFAW
@Bailey:
Well, the comments I saw (of yours) responding to someone who had questioned your bona fides, were a pastiche of “my time, my business, so MYOB,” so I can’t imagine how that impression came to be formed.
Bailey
@Major Major Major Major:
Wow, thanks for confirming I am how I say I am. I feel just as vindicated as Obama and his birth certificate now.
Insulting everybody? Only if disagreeing is insulting. Which apparently it is here.
You haven’t noticed Bernie campaigning on her behalf? Not sure how you could miss that. He’s on the ground in Ohio, for one thing.
Mnemosyne
@Bailey:
Which makes her like every other Democratic candidate of the past 30 years, including Bill Clinton and Barack Obama, both of whom managed to win twice without those precious, precious white dude votes.
Sorry, but the votes of white men are no longer enough to win the presidency. You are no longer a special snowflake. Deal with it.
OMFG, have you been in a motherfucking coma for the past 40+ years? Google “Southern Strategy Nixon” and come back when you’re less stupid, if possible.
No, seriously. All of my comments to you from this moment on will be “Explain the Southern Strategy in a way that demonstrates you understand it.” Until then, there is no discussion to be had.
Bailey
@SFAW:
It is my time and my money and my business. I also very clearly articulated that I was not cavassing because it would be wasted effort. How outrageous!
NorthLeft12
@randy khan: I agree that the job interview analogy is a little off, but consider it this way, if the interviewee is insane, but is able to communicate his insane ideas effectively, would that not appeal to insane interviewers?
People have to understand that the presidential candidates are appealing to a very large group of people. Some are insane, some are sane. Some want peace, some want war. To get the job of President, you have to appeal to the largest number of voters. Now [and this is the crux of the issue] are the majority/largest number of people voting in the 2016 election more interested in Trump and his vision, or Hillary and her vision?
It’s a no brainer for me, but I am a Canadian socialist, not a US citizen, so I don’t count.
Major Major Major Major
@Bailey: I have not. One imagines this is for much the same reason that you haven’t heard about Hillary doing any positive campaigning.
Bernie needs to be out there on Facebook and Instagram and holding lots of press conferences!
Bailey
@Mnemosyne:
There is a greater gap this year than any previous year. This is a fact, deal with it.
And why you think I am a white male is more hysterical projection on your part. Deal with that, too.
OMFG, I understand the Southern Strategy perfectly fine, thank you. But you don’t think it was just a bit more relevant against, say, Barack Obama than Hillary Clinton? Seriously?
NorthLeft12
BTW, Can people on here just stop feeding the troll? I am a little surprised at how much attention this fellow is getting on here.
Major Major Major Major
@Bailey: Yes, here are some of your non-insulting greatest hits.
Bailey
@Major Major Major Major:
I guess you’re not paying attention then. And are a little less concerned about the Millennial vote and their preferences than you’d care to admit. Unlike Bernie, Hillary has actual results to analyze based on the strategy of her campaign and messaging. And she’s losing ground. Whether or not I’ve seen every ad that runs in every swing state is immaterial since I can fully see the results.
Why? He isn’t the candidate.
Chyron HR
@Major Major Major Major, quoting Bailey-boo:
Ha ha, yeah, total nonsense! It’s like they think there’s a Green party candidate going around trying to convince people that there’s no difference between the Republican and Democratic candidates! Totally inapplicable to this election!
Mnemosyne
@Bailey:
Explain the Southern Strategy in a way that demonstrates you understand it. The fact that you seem to think it only applies to Obama is not giving me a lot of confidence in your understanding.
Bailey
@Major Major Major Major:
Yeah. Couldn’t be as a result of every other poster chiming in with “troll” / “jerkoff” / “asshole” could it? Nah, that never happens.
So if those are the worst comments I’ve ever made, where did I name call or insult anyone?
Enhanced Voting Techinques
@Bailey: Eh, I think you are missing the big picture. The Right is running back to Trump because they talked themselves into Trump being a figure head president so they get the Generic Republican(tm) of their Dreams. Generic Republican(tm) is always popular. Hilary made a misstep and the press was playing mean girls on her. But the second Trump talks he loses his genericness and the press is starting to back peddle on the Hillary bashing (do keep in mind the press hates the idea of a President Trump too, but they got self indulgent when Hilary had that huge lead)
And that being said, as Sam Wang points out the Democrats can put up a dead ferret as a candidate and win, baring the second coming of Ronald Regan.
Mnemosyne
@NorthLeft12:
I’m just waiting for him to claim that he’s really a lesbian woman of color and not the white dudebro he obviously is. Then that belly laugh will let me go to lunch and actually be productive at my job this afternoon.
Major Major Major Major
@Bailey: Whatever. You suck. You aren’t even entertainingly negative. Your writing lacks flair. Are you a lawyer? Go away.
randy khan
@randy khan:
*crickets*
Bailey
@Major Major Major Major:
LOL. You want flair? Go to Applebees. Lots of flair there.
Omnes Omnibus
Cool, another Bernie or Buster resurfaces. I was really missing those guys.
Enhanced Voting Techinques
@Bailey:
I assume he really wants the programs he called for in his platform. Do you think Trump is going to help kids over thier tuitions or just set them up for some Trump Collage Loan Scam?
Bailey
@randy khan:
Wow, sorry dude. It was 50 on 1 there — so sorry to have not seen your precious response.
What facts am I wrong on? That her message isn’t coming across? I’m hardly the only one to articulate this point of view. That she skipped out on nearly a year of press conferences and saw her lead ebb away? Again, how is this untrue?
I supported Grabthar.
Major Major Major Major
@Bailey: See, an Office Space reference isn’t even interesting. Yawn. You couldn’t even come up with something better than an Office Space reference? You’re not even worth the pixels it takes to display this stuff, and black pixels require very little energy.
Bailey
@Enhanced Voting Techinques:
I assume he does, too. And from what I can tell, Bernie still tweets, etc, but since he isn’t the candidate, he isn’t going to get the media attention. Which is why the actual candidate, should have been taking advantage of media opportunities right in front of her face instead of letting Trump steal all the oxygen. (He was always going to get a certain amount, but HRC pretty much gave him some freebies.)
FlipYrWhig
She doesn’t even say what she would do! Also, when she says what she would do, which she obviously does, never mind that first part, it’s not “effective”! What would be more effective is more speeches and press conferences. Which she doesn’t do, except when she does. Bottom line, it should involve doing things rather than not, and better rather than worse.
Bailey
@Major Major Major Major:
Why do you continue to spill pixels then? So perplexing. How can I miss you if you want go away despite the fact that you’ve said goodbye so many times?
Major Major Major Major
@Bailey: “I know you are, but what am I?”
How original! Carry on.
Bailey
@Omnes Omnibus:
How inane. I’ve donated time and money and will be voting for HRC. Explain the “Bernie or Bust” relevancy here?
FlipYrWhig
@Bailey: What was Obama’s “message,” do you think? Did everyone know all the things he would do in a zippy format that made them smile? I don’t remember anything like that. “Message” is what people say when they want their good/bad banalities to seem savvy.
Bailey
@Major Major Major Major:
Are you still talking? Why? Haven’t you announced that you were done with me multiple posts ago? When does that “goodbye” part actually kick in?
Mnemosyne
@Bailey:
I know, it’s so weird that people start calling you a jerk and an asshole every time you show up and act like a jerk and an asshole.
Quite the mystery, that.
Major Major Major Major
@Bailey: Why do you want me to leave so bad? Am I getting under your skin or something? What are you, Donald Trump, baited by a pseudonymous Internet commenter?
Bailey
@FlipYrWhig:
Of course Obama abbreviated his overall message into a savvy marketing campaign. That’s what good politicians do. His slug line was an easily memorable “Hope” and “Change” and “Yes We Can” which is, obviously, quite banal, but it stood for every other policy that he supported from ending overseas engagement to advocating healthcare reform.
What does HRC have that even compares? “I’m with her?” Really? How does that work to sell her? It sounds wholly self-serving, actually.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne: 65+ are mostly not Boomers*.
*Boomers over 65 would be the population between 65 and 70.
chopper
@Bailey:
and now on to ‘they started it!’. it’s like Concern Troll Bingo.
Bailey
@Major Major Major Major:
Getting under my skin? Not hardly. I don’t care if you stay or go but you keep announcing that you’re done and yet quite clearly you aren’t, so I’m just wondering if you have some troubles committing.
Major Major Major Major
@Bailey: I absolutely do. It’s kind of been a major problem in my life, actually. I’m a little sore about it.
You’ve done it! You’ve chased me away with unhappy memories!
You worthless waste of blood. Your brain would be better used as food for the homeless.
Bailey
@Chyron HR:
I don’t remember the conversation from whatever thread that was pulled from but historically, Nader did not cost Gore the election. Gore cost Gore the election. Mostly because, though wildly qualified and experienced, he had trouble articulating a message as to why the public should vote for him. Bush had “compassionate conservatism” and Gore had….I don’t even remember what Gore had and I doubt he does either. It was Gore’s election to lose and he lost it.
Statistically speaking, Nader pulled only 57/43 away from Gore v. Bush. The most substantial problem is the number of democrats who voted for Bush.
Bailey
@Mnemosyne:
If this is your level of comprehension and projection then I doubt you’re ever productive at your job.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but I’m not a white dudebro.
psycholinguist
For Fucsake, please stop feeding the concern troll. At least, before you respond, read this recent post from Crooked Timber – Aristotle on Trolling. Our Bailey hits every mark of the concern troll to a tee (Trump is a master at the form as well).
FlipYrWhig
@Bailey: Maybe they should print something on signs, and they could run commercials. I don’t know why they’re not doing these obvious things. Probably not because I’m not paying attention to them because I’m a stubborn horse’s ass who’s intent on saying the obvious things that Mark Halperin et al like to say and awaiting praise for bold truth-telling, but because something something effective messaging.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@Brachiator:
Can’t be. I already have it in my troll-b-gone.
FlipYrWhig
@Bailey:
It’s almost like you have a selective memory and retrofit it into apparent support for your remarkably uninteresting and insightless argument.
sukabi
@Bailey: seriously?
It’s not like she’s been hiding under a rock,ffs. She’s had campaign events daily, given speeches, had town halls, ect. The press could have covered any and or all of them and reported on her policy proposals presented at any of those events, but no. They want an engraved invitation to a special, just for them, press conference so they can do their fucking jobs? Bull Shit. She’s had 2 or 3 pressers in the last week and they still can’t find it in themselves to actually report what she’s said.
glory b
@Bailey: Fun fact, Trump hasn’t had a press conference since July.
FlipYrWhig
@sukabi: But she didn’t do it with a slogan that everyone can remember, like that one everyone remembers was such a coup it won the election, you know, the one about how things will be good.
Mnemosyne
@Bailey:
Uh-huh. This should be good. I already called “lesbian woman of color,” so make sure you steer away from that when you make your totally plausible claim to not be a white dude.
Bailey
@glory b:
Almost true. He has slacked off and HRC should absolutely press that to her advantage.
*What he did on Friday was a press conference. He trolled them, but it was still a press conference.
randy khan
@Bailey:
Since you appear to be devoting your full attention to this thread, I was understandably distressed that you were neglecting me.
I dunno, what are you wrong about? Whether she’s holding press conferences, her use of social media that millennials use, positive messages in advertising and elsewhere. I suppose there’s more, but really the point is that she is doing everything you say she should do. You just don’t seem to think she’s doing it right, but have yet to come remotely close to articulating what “right” would be.
The funny thing is that the press conference comment might have made sense a couple of months ago. I personally wondered if she ought to have a rip-off-the-bandaid press conference after Comey’s announcement. But now that she’s having them, and quite regularly, it makes no sense at all.
(Also: Grabthar – cute, but about as helpful as the rest of your posts.)
Bailey
@Mnemosyne:
Well keep hammering away at any other combinations you can think of! You’re making some stellar deductions thus far!
schrodinger's cat
@Mnemosyne: Black Muslin transgendered person from Chicago.
randy khan
@Bailey:
It was announced as a press conference, but an actual press conference involves taking questions. You might have noticed that he didn’t do that on Friday. There’s even some video of reporters shouting questions as he shuffles off stage, ignoring them.
Major Major Major Major
@Bailey: “I’m Bailey! I waste everybody’s time and money while I’m at work being a rancid ass on the Internet!”
Did I do a decent impression?
chopper
@Bailey:
if you leave without taking any questions while a crowd of your fans jumps up and cheers, it’s not really a press conference, is it? it’s just a speech.
Bailey
@sukabi:
In this climate, if she’s only doing townhalls and giving speeches there, she might as well be hiding under a rock.
Okay, you can rail about how crappy the press is all you want, but it doesn’t resolve the problem. HRC has not found a way through that yet and she has not broken through with either a cogent overall message or a strategy that maximizes her exposure to voters. Her dreadful opponent has. She must do this.
Bailey
@randy khan:
Did I say it was a thing of integrity? No, I did not. But it was an absurd amount of free time / informercial / walking tour of Trump property in front of the national press.
Major Major Major Major
@Bailey: what should she do that she isn’t already doing? Keep in mind we’ve pointed out she’s already doing everything your fevered swamp-mind has come up with, and the media still doesn’t report on it.
cokane
@Brachiator: winning the election won’t be determined in the balloon juice comment section, bruh. I’m just here speaking basic truths. Any country that would countenance Trump as a serious candidate has some deep issues. And there’s nothing wrong with speaking truth about the true power in this country — its voters.
Mnemosyne
@Bailey:
I’m still waiting for you to explain what the Southern Strategy was in a way that demonstrates your understanding of it. Waiting in vain, I might add.
sukabi
@Bailey: her dreadful opponent has the ENTIRE MEDIA ORGAN WORKING FOR HIM. Every stupid fucking thing he says or does is breathlessly, willingly lapped up by the tits on a boar press, while if she’s “lucky” they might have her relegated to a silent corner on the screen…..short of buying up 2 -3 major networks what exactly do you think she should do to “break through” the news embargo on reporting the SUBSTANCE of Hillary’s proposals?
Bailey
@Mnemosyne:
I’m sorry, any explanation from this asian / transgender / quadriplegic / jewish / atheist / would just be lost on you.
If you are waiting in vain, perhaps you should do something useful like turn your attention back to your work.
randy khan
@Bailey:
No, you said it was a press conference. And yet it wasn’t.
Bailey
@sukabi:
Or it’s the other way around — he is working the media.
I wouldn’t assume all of that attention is in his favor, necessarily. Or that HRC is unfairly getting shafted. After all, in an unprecedented move, many newspapers have skipped formalities and endorsed her outright before debate season even began.
geg6
@randy khan:
Maybe that’s where her confusion comes from. She has no idea what a “press conference” actually is and thinks it’s how many times the venal cable news nets cover her empty podium instead of the other candidate’s too numerous and policy-filled campaign events that receive absolutely no coverage at all. She also seems to not understand that the candidates don’t make the editorial decisions for cable and broadcast networks.
Bailey
@randy khan:
It was announced as a press conference. The entirety of the national press was there, gathered as such. They all recorded him receiving great praise from the various veterans on site. They anticipated that the might say something policy wise or even something more substantial birther wise. He didn’t and then he took their cameras on a tour and completely trolled them.
I never said it wasn’t despicable, but the point is, if you call a press conference, the press will come.
Mnemosyne
@Bailey:
Oh, we both already knew that you have no idea what the Southern Strategy was. I just wanted to make you say it in front of everyone.
Major Major Major Major
@Bailey: ?trollin trollin trollin
Keep those trolls a-trollin
Trollin trollin trollin
Fuck youuuu?
psycholinguist
@Major Major Major Major: How’d you make those cool music notes? – slick. Great song, gonna be an earworm I’m afraid.
Dadadadadadada
@Patricia Kayden: And they’d complain about her being an over-talkative female who won’t shut up. There’s no pleasing these people, and HRC has shown marvelous restraint in dealing with them.
Major Major Major Major
@psycholinguist: They’re emoji, so they’re unicode and you can copy/paste and they’re valid web content. You can search for them by description here.
sukabi
I see you’ve bought in to the “drumpf is such a skillful businessman” bullshit. If you haven’t been paying attention for the last 25 years the press has an absolute, viseral dislike of Hillary.
THEY aren’t coming at their coverage of the campaign, either in the primaries or in this stretch with anything close to unbiased coverage. Hillary hate, ratings and ad dollars are driving it. With a huge Republican tilt. How many “news shows” have paid Clinton staffers on their payrolls? What is yhe percentage of Republican spokespeople to Democratic spokespeople on those shows? What subjects do they talk about, and do they give equal time to each viewpoint?
So far this cycle drumpf has been the beneficiary of over 1 billion dollars in free advertising from the “news” networks. It’s not because he’s “playing them” it’s because that’s how they WANT it. Bad for the country, but good for their bottom line.
Bailey
@Mnemosyne:
Apparently you missed my previous reply with specific link. I won’t be holding your comprehension skills against you.
More than that, missing is your explanation as to why the Southern Strategy would be more effective against a white politician than a black one. In other words, why did Obama get so much more of this demographic?
Bailey
@Major Major Major Major:
Your moods are all over the place. It’s like trying to have a conversation with Sybil.
Mnemosyne
@Bailey:
Sweetie, I didn’t ask for a link. I asked YOU to explain what the Southern Strategy was in a way that demonstrates that YOU understand it. Any ape can provide a Wikipedia link, Otto, that doesn’t mean the ape understands it.
Bailey
@sukabi:
Yes. Which further makes the point that HRC, instead of shunning the free air time and exposure of press conferences, should have been all over them. Bad strategy on their part.
Bailey
@Mnemosyne:
Sweetie, I’m not going to spend hours reciting to you the long history of republican rat-fucking in the deep south to generate white resentment. You need the education, you do the work.
What you cannot and will not explain is why, 40+ years after the strategy was implemented, a white candidate would actually be doing worse in demos than her black predecessor did. Could it be, oh, I don’t know, that her messaging is terribly off target?
chopper
@Bailey:
i guess then all the people bitching about hillary’s lack of pressers would be content if only she’d call all her speeches ‘press conferences’.
chopper
@Bailey:
if you think the short speech trump dumped out last week was a ‘press conference’, then hilz has had a ton of press conferences in the last year.
different-church-lady
@Major Major Major Major:
Symbiotic relationship, no?
Mnemosyne
@Bailey:
Also, you may want to re-check your Obama facts. In 2012, Romney got 62 percent of the white male vote. No Democrat has gotten a majority of the white male vote since LBJ.
Hmm. Not since LBJ. It’s almost like something happened between now and then. Like someone had some kind of, IDK, “strategy” to get white men to stop voting for Democrats.
Nah, that can’t be. After all, someone would have heard of this “strategy” and informed even apes like yourself about how it worked, and you’re so very clueless about the whole issue that it obviously never happened.
sukabi
@Bailey: yeah, because the press has been ALL OVER covering her rallies, speeches, townhalls…if only she would have called them press conferences the press would have covered them…
And I fart rainbows.
Bailey
@Mnemosyne:
Oh good lord. I see your comprehension problem now. The question isn’t whether Obama got MORE of the white vote than Romney. Of course he didn’t, no Dem will. The question is why HRC is, thus far, far underperforming Obama’s portion of this vote.
Please try to keep up.
Mnemosyne
@Bailey:
So nice to have someone announce that misogyny no longer exists in a year where a well-connected rapist got off with time served because his victim was drunk. Especially after I already provided you with the 2012 numbers where Obama did worse with white men four years after he was initially elected, which apparently proves that the Southern Strategy is dead and white men hate Democrats for, like, totally different reasons now.
Maybe you could explain to all of us why misogyny is TOTALLY not affecting Hillary’s numbers the same way you so wisely explained that racism only affected Obama’s numbers and no other Democratic candidates. That will be quite the laff riot, Otto.
Bailey
@chopper:
I’ll speak slowly: I recognize, fully, that it was not in the end, a traditional press conference by form, substance, definition or anything else. What you are failing to note, however, is when a major candidate for the presidency announces that he/she is having a press conference, the press actually snaps to and pays attention and provides broad coverage. Therefore, it is to zero benefit to shy away from having them, particularly when there are major events than can be commented on and then transitioned to campaign talking points.
Bailey
@Mnemosyne:
Oh, so you’re using the Southern Strategy to apply to women now which doesn’t actually meet the requirement for white resentment. Particularly as even Republicans manage to elect a fair number of women while almost zero blacks.
Who ever doubted there was misogyny at work? There most certainly is. But that has little to do with the southern strategy which, as you know, is all wrapped around racial identity. Perhaps it is you who should be spelling out your understanding of US history because its unclear that you even understand your own data points.
chopper
@Bailey:
because she’s running against trump, who is really popular among white dudes.
same reason hilz is far, far overperforming obama’s portion of the white women’s vote.
Mnemosyne
@Bailey:
You may want to check your math. According to CNN, whites (both men and women) were polled at 55 percent for Trump. They voted 59 percent for Romney.
Or is this some of that dudebro New Math where 55 is a bigger number than 59 because Hillary Is The Worstest Candidate Ever!
chopper
@Bailey:
so hillary just needs to call her speeches ‘press conferences’ and the press’ll start just going apeshit over her campaign.
jesus, you’re a clown. it’s like the goopers who think ‘radical islamic terrorism’ is some set of magic words.
Mnemosyne
@Bailey:
Er, no. It actually isn’t and wasn’t solely focused on race. Really, I’m getting more and more embarrassed for you.
Please try to educate yourself before posting again.
chopper
@Bailey:
so you do use a speech-to-text. you must have really wrung your hands hard recently.
les
@Bailey:
Is this the generation that has never voted and doesn’t get politics? The ones who thought a millennial stare down outside McConnell’s office would make all the big banks (which ever they are; fucking planing, how does that work?) disappear? The ones who can’t find the 38 position papers, daily speeches and meetings with voters, support from most everyone she’s ever worked with? You mean that generation? Who just can’t get that tingle from Hillary? The ones who are ok with giving us Trump because they won’t be hurt, they just won’t get what they never had and never could get? Fuck ’em.
les
@Patricia Kayden:
Yeah, not enough questions about e-mails. More press conferences, I’m sure media coverage will give up the 25 year long attack fest. You know she talks to voters and groups every day? These things are reported, if you look? I know it’s a bitch, but waiting for the press to help won’t get anything.
les
@Bailey:
MOMMY! They expect me to do work, to be informed, to act the adult!! Mommy, they won’t spoon feed me!! I don’t tingle, Mommy, I don’t tingle!
chopper
@les:
hey now, this totes was gonna be the year the little bastards got off their asses.
les
@Bailey:
Good god you are a tool. How do you suppose that article got written? Clinton does things and talks about things. I don’t blame her for not going directly to your bedroom to tell you about it.
les
@Patricia Kayden:
Moments later:
Aw, Patricia, aren’t you cute? Clinton should do non-productive meetings with a press that has no interest in policy so she can talk about emailghazi to make you feel good?
Bailey
@les:
Good attitude. That will surely win an election.
Bailey
@les:
Really? You think Mother Jones had to be coerced into talking up the bonafides of a Democratic candidate? More specifically, you think Kevin Drum needs an interview with Hillary Clinton to provide that assessment?
randy khan
@Bailey:
Of course, what got the press there in such great numbers was the announcement that he would be having a press conference about the birther issue.
But at least we now know that your suggested strategy for Clinton is to announce she’s holding press conferences and then do something else.
Bailey
@chopper:
Wow, you get really hung up on the most bizarre, inconsequential (not to mention inaccurate) details.
Bailey
@randy khan:
Or she could do something really outside the box and announce that she’s unveiling a new radical policy proposal.
Bailey
@Mnemosyne:
Er, actually, yes, the southern strategy is born of backlash from the Civil Rights movement. And yes, it has existed and still exists to tweak white resentment on issues of race.
chopper
@randy khan:
of course. clearly, for hilz to compete she has to become a lying carnival barker as well.
chopper
@Bailey:
i’m just wondering how you do it. your hands must be so bruised!
Bailey
@chopper:
Yeah, no shit. Thanks, Sherlock.
Question is: why does HRC have nothing to say to this group? Why can’t she at least peel off the portion that Bernie was reaching? You know, the whites with economic problems that aren’t necessarily racist.
It helps that her opponent has been blatantly misogynistic in public and is a complete adversary to issues that women respond to.
As far as I can see, HRC (until she made the numbskull “deplorables” comment) hasn’t out and out opposed any particular segment of society the way Trump has. So why is her messaging there not resonating or even reaching them?
Bailey
@chopper:
And yet you should really be more concerned about the Dem candidate halting her slide in the polls.
randy khan
@Bailey:
What would you suggest that she hasn’t already proposed? Please be specific as you continue to move the goalposts.
chopper
@Bailey:
who says she has nothing to say?
the vast majority of bernie voters have gone over to hilz.
she’s not getting to all white dudes, but then again, white dudes are a pretty solid GOP voting bloc. as has been pointed out again and again, a dem hasn’t gotten that voting bloc since johnson.
plus uneducated white dudes are often pretty sexist. other than somehow being born a dude, i can’t see anything hilz can do about that.
chopper
@Bailey:
no, i shouldn’t. don’t want to bloody up the hands for no reason.
Bailey
@chopper:
What absurdly delicate hands you must have. Are they tiny like Trump’s? You seem so obsessed with them.
les
@chopper:
Aw c’mon, as Bailey so clearly shows us, real candidates are magical. They make him/her tingle.
chopper
@Bailey:
when you’re just going to town wringing your hands over how terrible clinton is, and they’re just not hurting enough, what do you do? you like slam em in a car door or something?
Bailey
Let’s check in again when she’s behind in even more battleground states. She does still need to pull off a few of them, you know.
chopper
@Bailey:
just don’t bleed to death before you come back. on second thought…
Bailey
@randy khan:
Who’s moving the goalposts here? Apparently you are now that I’m tasked with becoming her campaign manager and chief strategist. As opposed to the people who are paid to do this. All I can see is that a once formidable lead is ebbing away to an opponent that is equal parts circus peanut and rabid ferret and that the candidate in question is not reaching demographics the same way that her predecessor has. Also that she requires massive turnout to pull this off and given how many are not seeing her actual message, it’s pretty unclear how she can accomplish that.
There is no history of an election that generated turnout based on voters voting against the candidate they hate rather than for the candidate they can tolerate. And the truth is, those that follow Trump like him much more than those who follow Clinton, percentage wise.
J R in WV
@Bailey:
Hillary held a huge press conference at a convention of journalists, which didn’t reset the “clock” the right-wing pandering journos were keeping. Because it was a National Black and Hispanic Journalists Convention – hundreds of top level reporters, asking questions, totally ignored by CNN, MCNBC, NBC itself, The NYTimes, etc, etc.
C-Span covered it, so they didn’t even have to travel to see and hear it. They just didn’t care to acknowledge that, in truth, Ms Clinton has been holding meetings with reporters almost daily. They’re just too lazy and/or right-wing to want to attend them, so they lie about it.
I grew up in a newsroom, my parents met working in that newsroom, I met my wife working in that newsroom, and I know shitty reportage when I see and hear it. I got out of that biz in the late 1970s, did my career in software, which was more fun and less stressful, believe it or not.
You’re taking the word of “journalists” who hate Ms Clinton for when the Secretary meets with reporters, while they decline to meet with her, and distort what she says when they deign to meet with her, so I have the same respect for you I have for Andrea Mitchell (none, in case you wondered – she wanders in front of her own cameras!!).
singfoom
Go for the goal. A TBogg concern unit!
randy khan
@Bailey:
I wondered when we’d get this. I’m actually surprised it took so long.
It’s pretty funny to see you saying you’re not an expert. You’re the one who keeps saying she should do something other than what she’s doing and, when it’s been pointed out to you (serially) that she’s doing what you suggest, says she’s Not Doing It Right. Your last suggestion was some big “radical” policy initiative and when asked what that would be, you come up with nothing. Instead, you argue that I’m moving the goal posts when I ask you to explain what kind of thing would be consistent with your suggestion. And, honestly, if you don’t know what else she should do, then complaining about what she’s actually doing is pretty silly.
Bailey
@randy khan:
I don’t think you need to be an expert in much of anything to point out that following a president with 58% approval ratings and running against a fascist -in-training, one should not be dead even and slipping.
Oh hell, her “radical” policy initiative can be any of the million things on her website that no one pays attention to because her team hasn’t found a good way to message them.
No, moving the goalposts is assuming that I’m now in charge of her campaign. Given where she is in the polls Not Doing It Right is fairly obvious.
chopper
@Bailey:
she’s doing better than 2012 obama among a whole bunch of demographics. most, in fact. just not white dudes. and it’s not like obama would be doing any better right now with white dudes.
trump’s entire campaign is aimed at making white dudes happy. it’s ‘let’s make america great again for white dudes’. he’s going to win white dudes comfortably in this election for that reason.
chopper
@Bailey:
that’s assuming that people in america don’t like fascists-in-training. trumpism is very popular in america, and it isn’t because ‘hillary sucks’.
randy khan
@Bailey:
So to summarize: They should do “something” (unspecified) that they’re not doing and that improves her status in the polls, or they’re not doing it right. Since you’re not the campaign manager, there’s nothing you can suggest, other than the multiple suggestions you already made for things that Clinton already is doing.
Since you can’t make a specific suggestion for something she’s not already doing (or that her team, many of whom worked in two successful Presidential campaigns, should do), I have a suggestion for you. Even in a blue state, there are opportunities to help the campaign in swing states, for instance through phone banking, but in other ways as well. If you can’t leave your blue state to go to a swing state (although most of the blue states are adjacent to swing states, I recognize that in some cases it’s a hike, and there may be other reasons you can’t travel), maybe you should ask the local campaign what you can do. It takes a village, so to speak. (And, yes, I know that you say you haven’t said you’re *not* doing these things, but a quick search suggests that you haven’t said you *are* doing them either.)
SFAW
@randy khan:
Bingo.
sukabi
@randy khan: what (s)he IS doing is wasting everyone’s time, which is apparently the point.
randy khan
@sukabi:
I promise you I wouldn’t be responding if I weren’t enjoying myself. It’s a bit perverse, I admit, but we all have our kinks.
SFAW
@randy khan:
You are a bad person for enjoying what you’re doing. Bad, BAD BAD!!!
By the way: Do you give lessons?
SFAW
@sukabi:
Oh, cut it out. He/she was merely expressing his/her sincere concern that Hillary’s lack of perfection will cause her to get wiped out on 11/8. And even though every one of his/her complaints was answered, with references cited, he/she still had this … concern, because … well … reasons.
OK?
Don’t you now feel like a bad person (not unlike randy khan) for doubting Bailey’s sincerity? By the way, I realize you can’t see it, but I’m wagging my finger at you, and shaking my head ruefully.
Bailey
@randy khan:
To end this discussion, and so you can stop your painful projection, I have clearly stated that I have donated not only money but time. Time in the way of making calls. No, I will not be canvassing because whether or not my state borders a red state (a very, very red state which, too, would make canvassing pointless) I do not have the time to take off. Sorry, but that’s how it is.
By the way, NPR ran a fairly extensive piece today about how HRC isn’t bringing home the millennials it will take to win. But I guess I’m not supposed to talk about that. Everything’s all good.
randy khan
@Bailey:
Talk all you want (and indeed you have been). But it’s always better when you have facts and useful suggestions, rather than merely whining that the campaign isn’t doing it right and saying you’re not a professional so you shouldn’t be held responsible for the accuracy of your criticism.
randy khan
@SFAW:
Lessons? That sounds *really* kinky.
SFAW
@randy khan:
I’d say you should get your mind out of the gutter, but I don’t want to interrupt you while you’re “projecting.”
At least Bailey stated that s/he is making calls. The rest of it was just more of the same.
Bailey
@randy khan:
Wow, you STILL have this wrong and you’re still convinced the accuracy of my criticism was wrong. Meanwhile, HRC campaign losing ground and not connecting with voters she needs. (Lots of deflection about how she doesn’t really need those voters after all because….reasons.)
She ain’t getting her story across. That is just a fact. Debate it all you want, but focus groups around the country reveal that she doesn’t have a resonating message. My job is to note that. Her fucking campaign’s job is to fix it. And cry all you want about an unfair, unbalanced media, but from what I can tell, the media has been unprecedented in both: a.) endorsing her early and b.) calling Trump a liar. That she can’t find a way to make herself look more appealing is on the campaign, not on me.
chopper
man, these concern trolling fuck smellers just don’t know when to quit.