If we dodge a bullet and Clinton defeats Trump, there are a number of things that have to happen and need to be discussed and dealt with so we stop having existential crises like this every four years. First, our media needs to look at themselves and figure out how they allowed the know-nothings to reign supreme. Second, we need to stop fetishizing these fucking idiots:
Kae Roberts and Jay Eardly were leaning toward Hillary Clinton before Monday night’s debate.
By the end, they had both pulled away.
John Kokos and Hank Federal were undecided going in, potential Clinton backers.
By the end, they’d ruled her out.
Indeed, while polls found that Clinton had won the first general-election debate with Donald Trump on Monday, she may not have won actual votes. And she may even have lost some, at least in the battleground state of North Carolina.
In a focus group of 21 voters from around Charlotte conducted by McClatchy and The Charlotte Observer, four who had been up for grabs before the debate had moved away from her by the end.
***Roberts, who is unaffiliated with a party, wrote in her notes several times during the debate that Clinton offered “pie in the sky” ideas. By debate’s end, she had moved from leaning toward Clinton to undecided.
“The things she says she’s going to do, there’s no substance behind it,” Roberts said.
One potential winner in the focus group was Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson, who benefited largely because so many voters were annoyed at both Trump and Clinton.
“I was looking for Hillary to convince me, but I’m not getting the Hillary I’m looking for,” particularly on taxes, said Eardly, an unaffiliated voter. By the end of the debate, he’d moved from Clinton to considering Johnson.
Kokos, who works in Hickory, said before the debate he was undecided. Afterward, he ruled out Clinton and appeared open to either Johnson or Trump. “The things she said were out of an old playbook,” he said.
***Yet most said they would tune in to the next round of debates, including the vice presidential candidates next Tuesday and Trump and Clinton again on Oct. 9 and 19. But before they finally make up their minds, they want specifics and civility.
Oh jesus h fucking christ on a crutch. First things first. One person was civil. The other person was the same fucking Donald Trump we’ve been watching for what, a year and a half?
And specifics? These people don’t want specifics. They wouldn’t know what to do with specifics. Hillary has the most specific policy section for an election campaign that I have ever seen. There is something presented for every topic you can think of somewhere on the website. She literally has policy positions from Addiction to Workforce Training. Maybe she could add a section on Zookeeping just for kicks. The only thing missing is actually pre-written bills to hand to Congress, and if she had them, these jackasses would claim she was being presumptuous and acting like she had already won and they are probably also the same idiots who chant the bills are too long and congress needs to read every bill.
Over the years, the media attention has trained these special flowers to say these things and feel empowered to demonstrate how stupid they are because they think it makes them sound smart. These people are a static display of Dunning-Kreuger in action.
This is unique to politics. No one goes to their mechanic and says “I need new breaks,” he mechanic says “Ok, that will be 400 dollars” and the person says “I dunno, I need some specifics” and then has them recite step by step the procedure for how they will do it. N o one goes to their doctor and has them state, in latin, step by step how the procedure will be done. You’re given options, and then the doctor goes to work.
This is insanity. The very fact that you morons can’t make up your mind with the information you have already is demonstration enough that more specifics aren’t going to help you.
And then this:
“I’d like to see each candidate talk about the other side’s issues,” said Marcus Ramos-Pearson, who’s leaning toward Clinton. “I want to see Donald Trump talk more about social justice.”
I’d like to be 21, rich, healthy, and wake up next to a very naked and aroused Lady Sybil Crawley.
Fer fuck’s sake.
Trentrunner
The Dowager Countess is definitely not amused.
Villago Delenda Est
Pull the plug on this twit…he’s brain dead.
Joel
These morons just want attention, and dumbshit reporters are more than happy to dredge them up and give it to them.
It’s like Jerry Springer writ large.
Pogonip
Who is Lady Sybil Crawley?
I think the two sides should start working on their divorce now while it can be relatively amiable. Perhaps a referendum for each state: do you want to be part of the United States of Canada or Jesusland? There might be some question about what to do with places like Austin, Texas or Clumbus, Ahia. I’ll live in whichever side does NOT take Columbus. In my years there I heard enough about the stupid Buckeyes to last several lifetimes.
Walker
Our innumerate media’s love with outliers.
Wapiti
Shorter Trump curious voter: I’d like to try the tire rims, but could I get the anthrax on the side?
Knight of Nothing
At this point, does anyone really believe that any of these people are actually undecided?
hilts
These dummies remind me of this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAG37Kw1-aw
lamh36
I swear that the issue of HRC being a woman is causing more “indecisiveness” than some of these folks are willing to admit
Just as the headfast objection to PBO by folks who by every measure have had his support, but the something was “off”
We all have inherent biases that’s we aren’t always willing to admit but we do
Wapiti
@Pogonip: Er, fictional hottie? Downton Abby? Died in season two, so departed fictional character who doesn’t exist in a couple of definitions.
Jeffro
An old playbook THAT HAS BEEN WORKING AWESOMELY FOR THE PAST EIGHT YEARS!!! AHHHH AHHHH!!!
/Sam Kinison rant
These people…do they think it makes them look smarter that they can’t make up their minds? Or that they’re entertaining thoughts of voting for Johnson??
Whatever. As long as Hillz gets 1 more vote than Trump in every state Obama won in ’08 or ’12, these putzes can keep thinking they’re looking like sophisticated shoppers.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
The thing I’ll never forget was a piece in, I don’t know, Salon or Slate or one of those things back in 2004. The writer was talking about how fucking dumb these “undecided” dumbfucks are. The pièce de resistance was some dumb fucking dumbfuck woman who had been for Howard Dean in the primaries, but once Kerry won the nomination had made up her mind [sic] that she was going to vote for Bush. What the unholy fuck?
Adam L Silverman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZvT2r828QY
Corner Stone
Can we organize a Clockwork Orange style mob to wait around these locations where these fucking morons are opining. And then when they say this stupid shit, someone starts shrieking like one of our close DNA friends in the animal kingdom as they smash them to bits using bleached old as bones from our long dead species.
Corner Stone
These smug motherfuckers. Acting like they all know something so insightful no one else has figured out. Fuck you.
Trentrunner
SNL has the final word on “undecided voters.”
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
One of the local channels in Raleigh interviewed a lifelong Republican who had never voted for a Democrat in her life.
She’s voting for Hillary.
Trump appalled her that much last night.
Great work, Donald! Keep it up!
Eljai
Yeah, who is Hillary to talk about “pie in the sky” ideas like raising taxes on wealthy corporations, rebuilding our infrastructure, regulating banks and honoring treaties with our allies. It’s not like any previous presidents ever did those things, did they? I’m too lazy to use the google.
mellowjohn
get in line, Cole.
RinaX
I hate these people, fuck them all. Stupid dickheads.
redshirt
I think I’ve seen a house on my drive switch from Bernie signs to Trump signs. Make of that what will.
Enlightened Dictatorship is clearly the best form of government.
Bailey
Not that I believe all, or any, of these people are truly undecided, but I still think it’s a mistake to say “go to my website” rather than lay out your plan so people can hear it. Obviously, people aren’t hearing it and since last night’s debate was largely policy free, that isn’t surprising.
HRC did a great job of provoking Trump into revealing his inner, incompetent jackass, but didn’t do as good a job of laying out her agenda. She wasn’t completely wholly policy-thin like Trump was, but truly voters have heard “investment” “education” and “closing corporate loophole” for decades now, I’m not surprised they’re tuned out to that message.
Corner Stone
This is like idiots in a Spec’s that don’t want to buy their favorite liquor because the bottle now has a new yellow stripe across the neck area.
Steeplejack (phone)
@hilts:
Srsly.
SiubhanDuinne
I’m feeling very forlorn right now. My beloved cousin — he’s lived in Canada since 1953 but retains his U.S. citizenship, and votes — posted this to Facebook last night:
Seeing that just devastated me. And today, my sister chimed in with a comment that she totally agreed with him.
I haven’t commented at all, yet. I’ve already been through one long and very painful estrangement from family members in the late ’90s (not over politics that time) and have no interest in going through that grief again. So I simply chickened out and did a very passive-aggressive thing: put up a photo of Hillary with the caption “I’m with her,” and posted it with my own comment “in case there was a question in anybody’s mind….”
But I’m really upset that someone I love, and someone who is honestly a very smart guy could end up saying they’re both the same. Breaks my heart.
Wapiti
@redshirt: Trump might be able to manage unstable petulant dictator, but not much more.
cokane
@Pogonip: you know, if you typed “who is lady sybil crawley” in a different field on your browser…
PigDog
Anybody who “moved to Johnson” was probably already firmly in his camp to begin with.
Villago Delenda Est
@Bailey: It was entertaining watching her beat him to a bloody pulp. Fuck policy! This is show biz, baby!
redshirt
@Wapiti: If Trump were to be elected it’s a sign Democracy sucks.
Hal
An unaffiliated voter. Meaning she’s probably a conservative Republican who just likes the idea of being tagged as independent.
Jeffro
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
Well, some of that is just spite…we saw it with PUMAs in 2008 and BernieBros in 2016. “I can’t have my one very specific candidate (even though his positions are 98% similar to the guy who won) so I’ll Show. You.”
The rest is – and this is just armchair psychology: you experts jump in here – people “see” something in a particular candidate that they identify with and/or project on to them, and they stick with that quite strongly. I don’t even think the ‘something’ is a very big deal in most cases. But they do, and so it’s just kind of weird. I already know my values, so anyone who’s a down-the-line Democrat is 99% likely to get my vote, from Prez on down, but occasionally in primaries there’s a candidate who is more appealing than the other. Maybe some of it has to do with folks’ perception of candidates’ authenticity? Maybe some of it is just their charisma. Maybe both of those factor into, “Does this woman have a better chance to beat the Rs come November?” Maybe all of the above.
Knight of Nothing
@SiubhanDuinne: I am sincerely sorry. I feel a similar pang – I have a nontrivial number of family members who are going to vote for the racist, xenophobic demagogue. I really hoped/thought that even though they are republicans, Trump would be a bridge too far for them.
dmsilev
@Villago Delenda Est: We heard Trump talk about social justice: he believes in law-and-order and stop-and-frisk. Any entity with more sentience than a flatworm should be able to figure out what that means in terms of Trump’s “social justice” views.
Pogonip
Trump signs suddenly popping up in West Deplorable this evening. Will report on East Deplorable next rime I happen to be in the area.
Never go to North or South Deplorable.
Corner Stone
@Trentrunner: That’s a great video but it’s only about 1/10th of the way to capturing how truly vapid an undecided voter is in this day and age.
raven
khead
There are two suburban areas to worry about. NoVa and Philly.
I’m pretty sure Trump did not help himself with those folks last night. Especially with respect to women.
Wapiti
@SiubhanDuinne: That’s rough. I’m lucky, all of my immediate family see Trump as a clown. A nasty racist clown. And if they watched the debate, a woefully unprepared clown. We were big on studying and being ready for tests.
Pogonip
@cokane: Why do that when you can Ask Balloon Juice?
schrodinger's cat
They are Republicans who are ashamed of the brand name.
Lit3Bolt
@SiubhanDuinne:
They’re burping up David Brooks’ lines. He should get on that.
Major Major Major Major
@redshirt: works for Ankh-Morpork.
redshirt
@Pogonip: Just last week the Trump signs blossomed like a fungus after heavy rains. I assume it means Trump finally sent them out.
Makes me sad/mad/depressed everytime I see one. Here in rural Maine it’s 20 Trump signs for every Clinton sign.
That said, it was similar for Romney/Obama and Obama won my town with like 51%. I was surprised.
Jeffro
@SiubhanDuinne: Completely understandable…what a bummer. Maybe best to let it go until after the election (if it even needs addressing at all?)
If not, just ask him about what he really values about our country and therefore expects from his President. Or pick a topic and ask him to put both candidates’ policies side by side, see which one appeals more.
I think what most folks are thinking when they say “blah blah, both sides are horrible”, if they’re honest, is “This man is utterly unfit for office, and also I’m unwilling to do the hard work of seeing Clinton in a new light after 40 years of propaganda”.
gogol's wife
@Pogonip:
It was funny — even though I know perfectly well who Lady Sybil Crawley is, when you asked the question it kind of raised the specter of some lovely British aristocrat who’s found her way to West Virginia and met Cole.
redshirt
@raven: Typical. Once again, imagine if this were Clinton’s state director. OUTRAGE! But I bet your post is the only time I hear about this.
Iowa Old Lady
I find it shocking that someone would vote for Trump. To me, it reveals something about them I was happier not knowing.
And a voter who’s undecided at this point has no excuse. They have eyes and ears. After primaries and news coverage, they know or should know what the candidates are like. The contrast between Trump and Clinton isn’t exactly a subtle one.
Lee Hartmann
Mother of god. My wife says our politics resembles Venezuela’s more and more. and I have to agree…
Percysowner
@lamh36:
BINGO! These people don’t want to vote for a woman for President. They really don’t want to vote for an uber COMPETENT woman for President. They will always find something wrong with what she is doing, some reason why they just can’t vote for her.
It’s frustrating because I’m a woman and I’ve lived with it all my life. Women have to be perfect on everything and then they get criticized for paying too much attention to the details and not having a “broad view” of the problem. If they have a broad view, then they aren’t paying enough attention to the details. If they have both then suddenly people won’t be able to find one or the other.
This is compounded by the absolute bashing Hillary has received for more than 20 years. She will never do enough to take away from the impression the right wing media has sold. Honestly, I don’t know how she does it. I’d throw up my hands, and say I can protect my family, the country can fend for itself. People will say she’s doing it because she’s power hungry, but Lady McBeth would say “screw it, let Duncan keep the country” rather than put up with what Hillary has.
NonyNony
@redshirt: Around here I’ve noticed a number of yards that have 2 Trump signs – carefully placed at the edges of the property to make it look like 2 different Trump supporters. I wonder if that’s some “clever” bit of propaganda pushing that comes from the local GOP or if it comes from Trump HQ. (And if it’s from Trump, how much do they charge per sign…)
redshirt
@SiubhanDuinne: Silence equals acceptance. We all need to stand and fight, no matter the cost. The stakes are too high.
Jeffro
@efgoldman:
Well yeah, that’s where I was going with this =)
I must have missed that lesson in school: “Ponder the obvious, for as long as possible, and you will look wise beyond your years.” It’s like a deleted Bill Murray line from Caddyshack.
raven
@redshirt: It’s in the Athens and Atlanta papers, we’ll see if anybody else picks it up.
SiubhanDuinne
@Knight of Nothing:
And I’m equally sorry to hear that, about your own family members :-(
@Wapiti:
So were we, I always thought (in fact of all five of us, I was actually probably the one most likely to try to “wing it” à la Trump, at least until I was out of high school). But I seem to be the only one who has become more liberal as I get older; the others are following a more traditional pattern (and mind you, they started out fairly conservative).
tobie
@redshirt:
Doesn’t surprise me in the least. Bernie campaigned against the Democratic party, and his most ardent fans (youngsters living on their folks’ dime) are convinced the party is owned by Wall Street and did its darndest to trick St. Bernie of the nomination he deserved. His older ardent fans seem to think protectionist tariffs will cure all manufacturing woes, and this makes them sympathetic to Trump’s nationalism-masked-as-a-trade-policy. Check out Erik Loomis’s latest post at Lawyers, Guns, and Money. It’s as if the guy’s never heard of Smoot-Hawley.
NotMax
Some people are dense, stupid, willfully inattentive and/or motivated primarily by self-interest?
Who knew?
redshirt
@Knight of Nothing: Push back. We all need to push back against the forces of ignorance and bigotry.
SiubhanDuinne
@Lit3Bolt:
Been a while since I read Brooks with any care — but that sounds right.
Tim C.
@Knight of Nothing: I have no doubts at all that they went in Trump voters and left Trump voters. Ignore and double ignore focus group crap like this, even if it’s on the square, the sample size is far far too small to be of any use.
jl
Ehhhh…. I dunno. This Trump guy could be crooked with his foundation and tax evasion stuff. Could be big legal trouble, and sure is sleazy. But you know, someone told me we had a veep running around the country on murder rap a long time ago. If we are going to have crook president, should a real crime, not some wussy tax evasion stuff. I’m still undecided.
Edit: I kind a lost interest after that Baud guy dropped out. He had lots of scams. He knew how to get things done. Lemme tell ya.
Major Major Major Major
@NonyNony: or it’s placed as far away from the property as it can be so their homes don’t get vandalized.
redshirt
@NonyNony: I just drove by a house with a horseshoe driveway and they had at least 6 Trump signs along the horseshoe. Obviously only for their own enjoyment.
redshirt
@Major Major Major Major: Hmm. Will you make me Google?
Major Major Major Major
@tobie: you mean Hoot-Smawley right?
@redshirt: Terry Pratchett.
SiubhanDuinne
@Jeffro:
I think this is exactly right. Just, at the moment, I don’t have the energy (“stamina!!!”) to set up the arguments. Maybe in a day or two.
schrodinger's cat
You know where I had heard all the attacks coming out of Trump’s mouth yesterday? From Bernie and his supporters during the primaries.
Splitting Image
I’m not sure I’d like to wake up next to Lady Sybil Crawley. She doesn’t smile enough to be really attractive. [/frum]
One reason for this kind of “indecision” is that they will make their eventual choice based on whoever they think is going to win, and they are not sure either candidate has pulled into a lasting lead yet. They are paying no attention to policy whatsoever, and are only following the horse race coverage. In deep red or blue states, they may not be paying attention at all. They know who will win in November, so they know who they will be voting for. Others, in states like Ohio, will wait until the last week to cast their vote for whoever is leading in the polls.
For some of them, it’s their own little game of dominance politics. If the final vote is 51-49, they want to be one of the last few to put the winner over the top. That way they are a Critically Important Voice rather than a single vote among millions. This is why some of them are Trump-curious. Despite the numerous failings that everyone else sees in Trump, they see him as a kindred spirit.
SiubhanDuinne
@redshirt:
Yes, you are right, and as I said to Jeffro, I probably will engage him (my cousin) in a day or so. But I need to gather my resources first.
Am so grateful for this clear-eyed Balloon Juice community.
tobie
@Major Major Major Major: Ah yes, how could I forget Michelle Bachmann’s version of American history.
redshirt
@Major Major Major Major: Thank you. Never read him, unless he did a combo book with Gaiman back in the day.
Major Major Major Major
@SiubhanDuinne: the onion had a thing saying “actually stamina is one of Hillary’s key attributes with respect to skill points, after agility and metallurgy”. I lol’d a bit.
SiubhanDuinne
@efgoldman:
Yeah, I tried to wing it at Northwestern, too. That didn’t work very well. But at Hunter College and finally USF, I had managed, somehow, to get my shit together.
Major Major Major Major
@redshirt: Good Omens, yes.
Discworld is fun, especially the ones that get into the weeds of the Ankh-Morpork mercantile benevolent dictatorship system of government.
And, of course, the ones starring Death.
redshirt
@SiubhanDuinne: Obviously it’s tough because it’s family. But because it’s family, you need to push back.
I’ve worked a truce with my very Republican father because I fought back against every political statement he made. Now he doesn’t make them, and neither do I, and we’re getting along better than ever – literally.
raven
I’m not a huge baseball fan but this was really nice
MIAMI – Dee Gordon, a lefty hitter, saw the first pitch of the bottom of the first inning as a right-handed hitter, which was his way of paying tribute to the late Jose Fernandez.
Watch the video of the at bat.
redshirt
@efgoldman: I was rather surprised Clinton didn’t bring up Trump’s outsourcing. It seems like an easy counter to his somewhat effective attack against outsourcing. I assume she’s holding it in reserve.
raven
@redshirt: I hung in there with my old man partly because, when I came home from Vietnam, he recognized my right to participate in the anti-war movement. My half-brother, it’s been four years since he jumped ugly on me on the book of Faces. I cut all communication except sending his kids xmas and birthday stuff.
TaMara (HFG)
@SiubhanDuinne: FB is showing me a side of family members I didn’t realize were racist. So I feel your pain. I’ve already resigned myself to my older relatives being a lost cause, but not my cousins. I love my cousins.
Aleta
@SiubhanDuinne: In the last week one roommate, a person who stays unaffected by any of the difficult people he works with, has come home talking about how upset he is after a conversation. Today was the 3rd time: conversation with a computer sci teacher who’s a naturalized citizen. The guy started the conversation with “Well, our choice is between a big crook and a little crook.” Last week the conversations were with 1) a retired physics teacher friend, old school left wing radical, who says he’ll vote for the Green because he thinks H will win and he wants to protest. And 2) owner of the small alternative food store (who liked Bern). She’s selling a candy bar in 2 different wrappers, one insults Trump and one insults HRC. She’s voting Green because “they are both corrupt.” My gentle friend isn’t fazed by much, ever, but came home devastated, having engaged them about their thinking.
The Moar You Know
Undecideds my ass. They don’t exist. I’ve never met one. I HAVE met plenty of people who lied about being undecided in order to justify voting for an unpopular candidate. But a truly undecided voter? You’ll have a better shot at finding an actual real-life unicorn.
These “focus group” people are nothing more than liars.
Jeffro
@SiubhanDuinne: (from my quote)
I think I understand why they don’t do that work. If you’re an R of almost any kind, to embrace Clinton, you have to not only admit you were wrong (one of the hardest things for adults to do), but wrong about a Democrat, a woman, a…a Clinton! And worse yet, it’s not the yuck-it-up Clinton with all the charisma and malleability, it’s the one who has pretty much ALWAYS seen right through the Right Wing…and not been afraid to point it out.
So yeah, this is about five steps too far for almost all Rs. That’s why we’ve only really seen a gaggle of military and state department officials come out en masse publicly against Trump: half of these folks are Rs, but a) they’re flexible and can change their minds based on new evidence & insight, and b) they put their country before their party.
Not so with the R politicians, and certainly not with most varieties of R voters…why would they do all that mental heavy lifting, just for the “privilege” of voting for Hillary Clinton?
redshirt
@tobie: Given my area, I’m sure it’s older folks. I’m just surprised they have the passion to put out Sanders and Trump yard signs. Most people don’t.
Major Major Major Major
@The Moar You Know: my project manager says she’s “not a huge fan of either of them” and always changes the subject after saying this.
I don’t think she follows American politics very closely though. It feels more like she just doesn’t want to talk about it.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@redshirt:
Is there anything really different about this time than either Obama election? Are there a significant number of people who voted for Obama who would never vote for Clinton because he was a man, or who voted for Romney and now will vote for Clinton because she’s white? Is it the name Clinton? Trump is guilty x 1000 of everything they believe the Clintons are guilty of, plus he’s an ugly pig with no redeeming features. I get the feeling that white people are really confused about which tribe they belong to.
redshirt
@Major Major Major Major: Discworld has like dozens of books, yes? I’m afraid of the commitment. Also, I don’t like British things.
Another Scott
@SiubhanDuinne: I’m sorry they’re hurting you that way. If the subject comes up again, maybe remind them of the end of the debate:
His answer is much, much stronger than one would have expected from the question. If he actually means he will “support her” when she wins, then people who are thinking about voting for him should think about what that means. Maybe it means, when reality imposes its will, that she’s actually worth supporting?
Hang in there.
Cheers,
Scott.
JMG
@Aleta: There are a lot of dumb assholes in this society who think they’re smart and pure. Enough to decide an election perhaps. Nothing to do but call them out.
Denali
@SiubhanDuinne,
So sorry to hear this. Please don’t allow politics to destroy your relationship with your cousin and your sister. You can “agree to disagree” ; as you (and I) know, it is heartbreaking to become estranged from members of your family. While it is true that this is an unusual election in which we all are pretty emotionally involved, it truly is not as terrible a time as the Civil War or the Vietnam era. Life will go on, even if he who must not be named is elected.
Adam L Silverman
@redshirt: That’s not it. There is no real comparison, in terms of substance, between Senator Sanders and Trump. But there is a comparison in regards to campaigning. Both Senator Sanders and Trump have stated that the system has to be torn down and replaced. Senator Sanders had a much more substantive description of what that replacement should be. That said, neither of them are able to really articulate how to get to this replacement. Senator Sanders has a compelling vision of his end state and a thoroughly under articulated, if not under conceptualized, strategy to achieve it. Donald Trump has an expansive, but not detailed, vision of his end state this is compelling to his supporters/the base of the Republican Party. He has no strategy – articulated or conceptualized – for how to achieve it. So if you were supporting Senator Sanders because of we need to tear down the system and replace it, it is not too far a leap to latch onto Trump’s “we need to tear down the system and replace it”. If you saw any of his rally this evening he started with that. That this was a movement, like no one had ever seen, and it was going to replace the government of the US. That is not normal political discourse.
redshirt
@raven: Both cool with your father and boo with your half brother. But hate to say it, Dads are more important then half-brothers.
I’ve got a step-dad who’s edging into ever more verbose any Hillary shit, and I’m preparing my attack for the next public setting. I’m going to challenge him and let the chips fall where they may.
This election is too important. It’s more important than family in my opinion.
SiubhanDuinne
@redshirt:
It amazes me, given all his rhetoric, that Trump didn’t change over the sourcing of all his branded stuff to American companies. Yes, it might have cost him a bit more per unit, but he could so easily have avoided the “hypocrite” label, at least on this issue. Even if there were still Trump-branded items on the shelves from China, Mexico, Guatemala, Bangladesh, wherever — he could still pull out new U.S.-made goods and announce that from here on out the Trump name would be associated exclusively with domestic firms in order to bring manufacturing back to this country and make America great again.
How stupid is he, really?
redshirt
@efgoldman: You’ve jumped back on the bandwagon?
Major Major Major Major
@redshirt: yes, but they’re episodic, not serial. I’ll find you a good guide if you’re interested. He’s quite entertaining and thoughtful.
redshirt
@SiubhanDuinne:
Better question: How stupid are his voters? This is his “I could shoot a man in Times Square” statement writ large.
SFAW
@efgoldman:
Shouldn’t that be “I wung it in college.”?
Mike J
Regardless of what the media tells you right now, and without trying to tell our side they don’t need to get out and vote, I don’t think it’s going to be as close as the media is telling you right now.
And Jesus Christ, Sox, just stop them from scoring.
SFAW
@redshirt:
How high is “up”?
redshirt
@Major Major Major Major: How many books are we talking about?
Being in a monthly book club already, I doubt I could commit. 1 book club book a month plus a book I choose a month is my limit.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Adam L Silverman:
So, where the fuck is Bernie and his bullshit revolution anyway? You’d think he’d be out there in the swing states campaigning for the Senate candidates that would flip the Senate, which would give him enormous amounts of leverage to head up one of those committees that he could push his “progressive” agenda forward with. Oh right, he’s a fucking fraud who bought himself a nice place on a lake with his grifting fraud of a wife.
Adam L Silverman
@SiubhanDuinne: My brother voted for Nader in 2000 and hasn’t stopped bitching about Bush 43 since. Didn’t understand why I felt the need to deploy to Iraq, possibly to Afghanistan, and the feeling that I need to go back to Iraq to help out now if I could get a funding line.
I am purposefully not asking him who he’s voting for this time because I don’t want to hear him say Stein.
redshirt
@SFAW: “This one goes to 11.”
redshirt
@Adam L Silverman: So he’s some kind of Super Hippy or something?
raven
@redshirt: I’ve had a sneaking suspicion that it was actually his Nazi wife but it doesn’t matter to me. I hope they have a nice life.
Sicilian Dish
Any dumbf()ck who decided against HRC based on last night, was never going to vote for her anyway. I don’t think she ‘lost’ any ‘votes’
Adam L Silverman
@raven:
http://wiregrassgroup.com/ourteam/brandonphillips
amk
Hey cole. You got such she-ain’t-good-enough dumbshit morons right here in your own fucking blog.
tobie
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Saw him on TV this evening. he was doing an okay job advocating for HRC but as soon as Chuck Todd pushed him on how the DNC treated him he couldn’t help but take the bait and talked about the unfairness of the debate schedule during the primaries. Also promised to hold Clinton’s feet to the fire if/when she wins the election. He showed himself to be thin-skinned. A true dick.
Major Major Major Major
@redshirt: i don’t know, one? Like I said, they’re episodic. No commitment required, except maybe a Wikipedia article to get the basic lay of the land.
Eta: the first one I read was Thud!, a murder mystery about dealing with ancient tensions between inner-city trolls and dwarves, and adapting to modern notions of diversity by adding a vampire to the city watch.
sigaba
People like this are infuriating, but lets face it, this country was basically founded because there are people like this. Around 1650 England was overflowing with people who were all like “I don’t know, the Pope is the Antichrist and everything, but the Protestants are kinda bonkers.” The people who nobly stuck to their indecisive guns moved to Massachusetts Bay, where they could basically invent the government and church they wanted out of their lazy presumptions and it coasted along pretty well as long as the beaver pelts flowed and nobody went to jail for shooting a Mohigan or Pequot.
The people who stayed in England eventually decided that Oliver Cromwell seemed like a good guy, sort of guy you could have a beer with. The people who make do and were reasonable, and understood compromise with reality, and who accepted that decisions actually had a price stayed in England.
America was invented for Europeans who believed there never had to be tradeoffs and they could have their cake and eat it, and when tradeoffs were necessary, the person at the losing end could always be an Indian or a slave, or a Mexican, or a (fill in the blank).
SFAW
@redshirt:
David St. Hubbins (or whichever one it was) was a fucking genius compared to these morons.
sunny raines
you see this all the time with the Bernie Sanders flotsam dead-enders – they seem to think voting and democracy is about them personally being stroked: ‘give me – little Ole me EXACTLY what I think I want or i’m stay at home and pout – that’ll show you’.
WTF!!!! what utter BS nonsense and crap!!!
redshirt
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Trump is the difference I think, and not the man, but the attitude. The Paul LePage as we call it up here. They revel in the assholishness. Compare Romney and Trump. Both are rich. Yet Romney comes off as a patrician, above the common man. Whereas Trump – even HUGELY richer – is down in the trenches “calling a spade a spade”. Even though of course he lives in penthouses etc. You’d think a white women would do better than a black man among these types of voters, but it seems like Trump’s assholishness has lit a fire in them. That’s my only concern with this election – is that enough to win? I don’t know, and no one does, because it’s never happened like this before.
Adam L Silverman
@efgoldman: Or who seem to have convictions for violent crimes that no one seems to have ever paid any attention too?
trollhattan
@SiubhanDuinne:
Those profit margins don’t water themselves.
I think Trump’s life choices are informed by two simple questions:
*Is she hot?
*How do I wind up with the most money?
John Cole
I spent a lot of time on that graphic you assholes.
redshirt
@raven: I’ve watched my brother-in-law’s father turn into an evangelical over the past 10 years because of his wife. It happens.
raven
@John Cole: I kinda like it.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@tobie:
He really is, and if he had prevailed, OMG. Two thin skinned old shouty white guys who are hiding what’s in their taxes, one of whom (Bernie) advocating the largest peace time tax increase in American history and both advocating tearing up Obama’s hard work by the roots? No thanks very much.
redshirt
@John Cole: LOL. I just assumed you stole it from someone else. Liked the Shaq/Hillary shimmy way better.
raven
@redshirt: Xin Loi.
jonas
@SiubhanDuinne:
Like the guy who doesn’t have to outrun the bear, he just has to outrun you, Trump just has to be slightly smarter than his supporters for his grift to keep on paying off. At some point, he’s may run out of idiots to grift, but that’s a long way down the road, he figures.
Miss Bianca
@Adam L Silverman: How did I just *know*…
weaselone
@Sicilian Dish:
I’m not 100% sure that’s the case. There’s deeply imbedded misogyny in this country, some of it not necessarily even conscious. It’s quite possible that there is a cohort out there that reacted negatively at a gut level to Hillary reducing Trump to a pile of fluorescent orange dust. They then attempt to rationalize that feeling with some aspect of the actual debate performance.
Major Major Major Major
@John Cole: papyrus…?
redshirt
@Adam L Silverman: Oh, I get that. But you put up yard signs to tear down the system? It’s a weird impulse.
SFAW
It occurs to me that these morons are not unlike Olympia Snowe, Susan Collins, and whatever few remaining “moderate” Rethugs there are/were around since the blackity-black black man was elected. To be less abstruse: the “moderates” kept doing the “I’d really like to meet you halfway, President Obama, but I still need to see this one additional piece included in your proposal.” And then when that piece was added: “Well, I’ve thought about this” — or “searched my soul” — “but I’m afraid I just can’t give you my vote.”
If those mofos had to jump through the same hoops that they want the darkies to (such as poll tests, etc.), the Rethug vote tally would drop by about 40 percent.
redshirt
@raven: Namaste.
LAO
@Major Major Major Major:
My personal favorite. I still laugh everytime I think of his pet, the GRIM SQUEAKER.
Shana
@redshirt: I friend of mine has been having a friendly rivalry with her next door neighbor for years. For every R sign he puts up during Election years, she puts up a D sign. After 2012 they came to an agreement that they’d each put up only one sign.
I need to check to see how it’s going this year. I just saw my first Trump sign here in Fairfax Co. VA this week. Just got back from my local D committee meeting where I picked up about a dozen Clinton/Kaine/Connolly signs. Mine goes up tomorrow morning when I go down the driveway to pick up my paper.
Knight of Nothing
@redshirt: over the years I’ve done a fair bit of pushback on various issues. But in 2016, I’m not sure there is there any upside to having another political argument with them. Persuading anyone of anything is extremely difficult, and none of us live in swing states.
Omnes Omnibus
@Sicilian Dish:
Exactly.
@amk: He probably does, but he probably still won’t ban them. I am sure he is sorry to disappoint you.
Another Scott
@SiubhanDuinne: “Make America Great Again” isn’t the goal. They are words that he’s using to support his real goal – making more money.
All of Trump’s image and self-worth are tied up with money. He has to have more, to show how powerful and virtuous and exceptional he is, and how much better he is than anyone else.
He doesn’t care about jobs or the economy or infrastructure or any of that stuff he talked about at the debate. Or looking like a hypocrite. He wants to win so that he can pump up his brand and get more money.
That is all.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up like Hetty Green – so brainwashed by money that her son had to have his leg amputated because she had trouble finding a free clinic.
Cheers,
Scott.
JMG
@redshirt: White men, of whom I have the honor to be one, can come up with a zillion excuses for their own shortcomings. Trump is offering secular forgiveness. “Hey, the President’s an asshole, so it’s OK for me to be one.”
I’ll tell you one thing. Whoever wins, every battered woman shelter in the country’s gonna be on red alert Election Night. Whether in triumph or rage, some of these not-quite human beings are going to act out.
SFAW
@amk:
Screw you, I ain’t one of them “she-ain’t-good-enough” morons.
amk
@Omnes Omnibus: I love when I rattle your feefees without even trying.
redshirt
@SFAW: Everyone forgets about the original Republican moderate from Maine, Bill Cohen.
But rest assured, we’ve been busy purging all the moderates.
redshirt
Rick Perry is on that dancing show?!?!
waysel
@John Cole: Christ, I thought you stole it off the internet. Nice work.
Splitting Image
@John Cole:
It’s very unfair to Rick Astley, I think. Astley played City of Heroes back in the day, and is apparently a pretty cool guy aside from one of his songs being overplayed. Ted Nugent is the anal cyst you were thinking of.
Miss Bianca
@SiubhanDuinne: I’ve had to just disengage from most of my family on FB entirely. When one of them starts in on the “gee, I just don’t know who’s worse…” I just hear John’s rant about “ebola v. vanilla” in my head – “Gee, vanilla just didn’t give me the answers I was looking for.”
I just want to grab them and say, “Look, people – it’s this simple: one runs a great risk of killing you, or at least fucking up your life and your country, and one doesn’t. I don’t know how much clearer it has to be made for you. If you were really this clueless in the rest of your life, you couldn’t function. WTF is up with you?”
Then there’s my brother: “Well, at least Trump is a businessman, and he’s done something with his life, unlike Hillary – all she’s done is enrich herself and her family.” Actually no, bro – that’s all TRUMP has done.
But combatting the level of wilful ignorance, white privilege, and sexism at play just seems beyond me at times. Against stupidity this epic, the gods themselves strive in vain.
I really wonder sometimes whether the Russians have put something in our water…//
Omnes Omnibus
@amk: I just find your quixotic attempts to get Cole to change his banning policy to be sad.
SFAW
@redshirt:
I remember Cohen as being reasonable. Am I mis-remembering?
FlyingToaster
@John Cole: Thank you. I’ll steal it and send it to my mom in Florida…
Adam L Silverman
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: He’s campaigning with Secretary Clinton tomorrow.
Jeffro
@JMG:
Close! He’s offering a chance for many folks to – through Trump – say what they’ve always want to say, to really vent their spleen, in any one of a million offensive ways. Scared of Muslims? Wondering about all these Hispanics you see in your town? Tired of having to consider women’s feelings, much less treat them as equals? I’ve got yer man right here…and he’s not afraid to say some ‘politically incorrect’ stuff, BELIEVE ME.
And we wonder why Trump’s numbers are as high as they are…
I’m not justifying or excusing any of it, by no means. But I think I understand at least this much about the appeal to his voters. Vote for Trump and he’ll keep launching these rants that you couldn’t possibly get away with in your own life.
Mike J
Honestly, I don’t remember enough about After M*A*S*H to put it in the evil column. In fact, I wouldn’t mind seeing an ep or two.
Of course I felt that way about My Mother the Car until one of the all nostalgia stations started showing it.
gogol's wife
@John Cole:
Oh, I just went back and really looked at it. It’s great. I didn’t get it the first time.
amk
@Omnes Omnibus: Yeah, keep fucking that imaginary chicken.
SFAW
@Miss Bianca:
Holy shit. My head nearly a-sploded.
jonas
Undecided voters: “Traditional politicians have ‘policies’. I want a politician who’s just off-the-cuff, fly-by-the-seat-of-their-pants, tell-it-like-it-is. If someone asks what their plan is to defeat ISIS, I want them to shout “More grape juice!!!” If they’re asked what they think the top marginal tax rate should be, they should answer “Guinea pigs!” And the only qualification to be on their cabinet is that you have coached a Big 10 field hockey team. You know, straight talk.”
Basically, we want the The Standing at the Back Dressed Stupidly and Looking Stupid Party.
gogol's wife
@Mike J:
That one was never any good.
Car 54, Where Are You?, now, that one holds up.
Adam L Silverman
@redshirt: Not really. He just doesn’t seem to understand how US politics work.
Aleta
@efgoldman: The IV drip of Contented Lioness Herbal Tea; the Shuffle packed with snoring puppy sounds; the Therapy Stress ball you can squeeze and throw without causing serious injury to recipient; the compact travel bag of tools for hand-to-hand combat and guerrilla warfare when escape becomes the only chance to save your life.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@JMG:
White men I know – the one I’m married to in particular -seem to be reduced to wringing their hands and shaking their heads in sorrow at the state of white manhood and the inability of white men to be woke. Taking their fellow white male family and friends to task for their bullshit narrow thinking doesn’t seem to be a real option. Getting 10% of white men to vote D – which means a vote for smashing the white supremacist patriarchy by joining the Obama coalition – would make all the difference and then we could have nice things, but it would mean sharing.
lollipopguild
I work in retail and deal with customers everyday who have no idea of what they want or of what they are doing. I deal with people above me in the company who have no idea of what they are doing. It does not surprise me that we have adult voters who are Idiots. They are everywhere. The Idiot drivers can kill/injure you today and the Idiot voters can destroy a whole country in this election.
LAO
Shimon Perez died.
SFAW
@John Cole:
And a fine piece of work it is. But I’m a little surprised that you omitted the Star Wars Holiday Special from the left path.
Mike E
@waysel: yep…where’s the anrhrax/tire rims?
amk
Meanwhile, The Arizona Republic has endorsed a Democrat for the first time in its history and VA rethug John Warner sez FU to donnie dick.
Omnes Omnibus
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
You do mean getting an additional 10%, right?
p.a.
Yeah that pathetic old style thinking; New Dealism which just prevented a potential fascist US, created and preserved through several decades the middle fucking class here, helped defeat the combined might of Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan, took the first stumbling steps since Reconstruction at providing equal access to the benefits of the Constitution to all citizens…
Fucking morons
redshirt
@Knight of Nothing: It seems more important this year than ever.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Adam L Silverman:
i know that – what’s he been doing all the rest of the time, while she is trying to save us from a nazi?
SFAW
@gogol’s wife:
Better than “My Mother, the Car”?
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Omnes Omnibus:
yes – from 36% to 46%.
gogol's wife
@Omnes Omnibus:
Yes, the math here was a little alarming to me.
gogol's wife
@SFAW:
Much better.
Miss Bianca
@John Cole: Is this your way of telling us we should be admiring it?
It’s awesome.
JMG
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: It’s white men 50 and up who see their lives as bitter disappointments. It’s not a good way to live. I’m over 65, have been lucky enough to have a great life, and most of all, have learned that the problems and disappointments in it were pretty much my own fault. That insight took a long time to form, too long. But to have a political movement based on the idea of revenge on the past is futile besides being uniquely dangerous. I know that if it was my unhappy destiny to be President of Mexico, a Trump victory would have me on the first plane to Beijing to sign a mutual defense treaty. Monroe Doctrine, mofo? Put up WW3 or shut up.
amk
live by tweet, die by tweet.
Miss Bianca
@SFAW: IKR?
eclare
@SiubhanDuinne: Especially since he is safely in Canada, whereas we (at least I, don’t know your situation) will have to deal with the destruction of a president dumpster fire.
And he gets life under Trudeau. But you did the right thing.
Adam L Silverman
@Miss Bianca: Timeless classic copied and pasted in a timely manner.
Adam L Silverman
@Miss Bianca: Also, I checked with LAO. She said:
Adam L Silverman
@John Cole: Now you know how I feel about the Snack Team 6 unit crest…
Knight of Nothing
@redshirt: if you have the secret formula for persuading the over 40 demographic to change their minds, I’m all ears. :-)
AndoChronic
@John Cole: I shared it on my FB page and gave you graphic credits.
Adam L Silverman
@redshirt:
http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000YSjy4rWMR_M/s/900/720/Handelsman-Cartoons-Punch-1982-08-18-254.jpg
eclare
@schrodinger’s cat: My thoughts exactly. And/or they think they are too sophisticated, too smart to just say I agree with this party more, so I will vote for that candidate. No, they have principles! And then they’ll vote Republican.
Omnes Omnibus
@Miss Bianca: I am soooooo happy with my general circle of friends and family. I have to go to first cousins once removed and second cousins before i find a Republican. With friends, I have, over time, selected for non-assholes. The few who sentiment or family obligation make me stay in touch with are sensible enough to avoid political discussions on FB or at social events.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@JMG:
The 1950s through the 2010’s – isn’t that the golden age of white middle class manhood? Such fragile, insecure delicate flowers they are, at the first sign that the system that has privileged them through the greatest economic boom time in history might have legitimate claims to it made by everyone not white and male. Get over it, snowflakes.
LAO
@Adam L Silverman: speaking of Bundys…the government rested today and now the fun really starts.
Edited: my iPad is so annoying.
Patricia Kayden
@redshirt: Agreed. I thought Secretary Clinton being a White woman would give her an edge over President Obama with certain demographic groups. Doesn’t appear to be the case.
Miss Bianca
@Adam L Silverman: I believe it. Nobody could look that much like Bat Boy and *not* be a vampire.
And FWIW, I think “Blazing Saddles” is the key to understanding modern-day America. It just gets more sadly, funnily, frighteningly relevant every damn year.
Adam L Silverman
@JMG: He actually put hands on a female reporter last night.
https://twitter.com/leximccammond/status/780604698160136192?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
http://www.bustle.com/articles/186264-i-asked-donald-trump-about-young-women-voters-he-grabbed-my-wrist-and-pushed-my
NotMax
@gogol’s wife
Yes, yes it does and is still laugh out loud funny.
Hank Garrett and Charlotte Rae are, IIRC, the last surviving regulars from the cast.
Shana
@redshirt: Afraid of commitment? Then don’t pick up PG Wodehouse. He wrote 96 books. Yes, I own them all, a few of which are first editions.
Anyone out in the DC area who’s interested, The Wodehouse Society will be having it’s biannual convention here in October 2017.
ETA: Hubby sez don’t pick up Trollope either. I think he wrote 35 books.
Miss Bianca
@Adam L Silverman: are you wanting pets for that? That one was good, too!
*You* get a gold star, and *you* get a gold star…
Patricia Kayden
@jonas: Your bear analogy has got me chuckling although it won’t be fun when a President Trump outruns the bear and leaves us to be mauled to death.
Another Scott
@John Cole: Nice, but it’s missing a couple of things.
1) On the left fork road, you need a 1959 Dodge Coronet that’s all rusted out, missing a bumper, smoking exhaust, etc., with a guy with a shot gun, a red baseball cap, a big pottery jug with “XXX” on the label, and “Ford Sucks!” on his T-shirt.
2) On the right fork road, you need a green 2015 Ford Focus hatchback.
“That green color is so over the top, and I don’t like Fords, and the guy on the left has a good point…”
:-/
Cheers,
Scott.
OGLiberal
@redshirt: i think Dems are more interested in voting, GOTV, contributing to their candidate/party, etc. Seriously, has a sign on a front law ever swayed a vote?
Conservatives put signs up because they think it pisses off liberal – and it results in shock for morons like Nooners when the Dem win because, well, all those signs! Here in Lackawanna County, PA, I see tons of Trump signs in the outer suburbs and rural areas. But Obama got 63% of the vote here on 2012 and Clinton will get close to same. And it’s not because all the browns in Scranton are going to vote for her….the county is 90+% white.
Soylent Green
About bumper stickers and yard signs: if Trump supporters sport them, Democrats being good citizens will frown and keep walking. If Clinton supporters dare to display them, Trump supporters being assholes might key their cars or take a bat to their mailboxes. There’s no risk for them to be loud and proud but plenty of risk for us.
Denali
Actually, the graphic is pretty good, even bigly good!
Mike J
@gogol’s wife: What was worse, they showed It’s About Time after MMtC. All the intellectual depth of Gilligan’s Island without the charm.
Patricia Kayden
@Adam L Silverman: If Trump loses, I expect him to punch out several reporters when they seek his reaction. At that point, he’ll have no reason to restrain himself.
amk
@Shana: first editions? I am so jealous.
p.a.
@Omnes Omnibus: You’re lucky. Here’s a brief compilation of close relatives’ greatest hits: Saddam Hussein hid all his WMD in 30 minute cycles when US spy satellites were recycling. MLK was a communist. There’s a secret blacks-only welfare system. Every Dem election victory was the result of vote fraud. Limes are unripe lemons.
Omnes Omnibus
@Patricia Kayden: He doesn’t have the stamina or the technical ability to punch out even one reporter.
Miss Bianca
@Omnes Omnibus: I am realizing that I have to observe “gunroom rules” – that is, no discussion of politics or religion – with a surprisingly large number of people in my life. Maybe it’s my class background, maybe it’s living in a red area of a purple state, maybe it’s that it seems for every reality-denying redneck around here, there’s an equally obstinantly reality-denying greenhead.
And maybe that’s why I’ve taken to hanging out here so much. ; )
Fair Economist
Given his age and weight, I don’t think that’s very likely.
daves09
Misogyny-she’s a womern, classism-she cares about the poors, racism-she’s always talking about the coloreds. Plus just general shitheeledness, it’s amazing she’s leading.
Who would have thought it would be the woman rather than the black man who brought out all the pathologies.
I canvass and voter register a couple of days a week and it’s all there. Come home feeling hopeless, but I gotta say last night made me feel better.
And the lovely Charlie Pierce going on today about how Clinton didn’t win, Trump lost. He’ll probably recycle it the day after the election.
NotMax
@redshirt
The Prisoner?
Monty Python?
The Beatles or The Rolling Stones?
Charles Dickens?
Double Gloucester cheese?
Omnes Omnibus
@p.a.: I know I am lucky. Family holidays tend to be safe zones where people bitch about Republicans.
Prescott Cactus
@Adam L Silverman: You did that yourself?
You guys gotta sign your work. Sometimes a hat tip, sometimes a hat full of shit. No grading on a curve.
cynthia ackerman
Eavesdropped on a fascinating conversation today between two 60-ish white women in Greg Walden’s district (R- Oregon). “He should have said the things he says in the rallies.” Long story short, these people see a winner in Trump the same as many of us see the opposite. Rashomon meets Blazing Saddles.
Miss Bianca
@daves09: Charlie Pierce is another of those guys I’ve gradually lost respect for as I’ve watched Clinton Derangement Syndrome eat his brain.
Miss Bianca
@p.a.: “The moon is made of wood. Kennedy is cancer spelled backward.”
NotMax
@gogol’s wife
It’s About Time had a catchy theme song, though.
Will admit to having watched MMtC solely because have always been a huge fan of Ann Sothern (voice of the car).
Omnes Omnibus
@NotMax: Scotch? The Clash? Elvis Costello? Jane Austen? Purdey shotguns. The Avengers (not the Marvel version)?
Adam L Silverman
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: I have no idea.
Adam L Silverman
@LAO: Tracking. I’ll do an update tomorrow. Just too much other stuff going on last night with the debate.
Omnes Omnibus
@Miss Bianca: Huh?
Citizen_X
@Another Scott: Never heard of Hetty Green before, but good lord, what a miserable human being! Though I kind of liked the absurdity of this:
p.a.
@Omnes Omnibus: Even The New Avengers; Joanna Lumley. MMMMMmmmmmmmmmmm…
Oh, and Ab Fab!
Adam L Silverman
@Miss Bianca: No, just some recognition that because I didn’t put your (not specifically you I’m referencing) pet snackfood or other item from the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge operation doesn’t mean I was personally trying to destroy your Balloon Juice experience.
redshirt
@NotMax: The Stones are good. That’s about it.
LAO
@efgoldman: Judge wouldn’t let them, she ran a tight ship. But it appears that the defense cases will be something of a mess. If I read correctly, Ammon intends to open his case by calling a number of FBI agents and sheriff ward. His lawyer hasn’t interviewed them, so I don’t know what he thinks he can accomplish. I would never call a witness I hadn’t interviewed, much less not prepared. It’s a foolish tactic. Especially, since it’s almost impossible to control direct examinations.
Adam L Silverman
@Prescott Cactus: Yep, all by myself.
Omnes Omnibus
@redshirt: I don’t know. Rejecting things on the grounds of nationality seems iffy. Unless you are protesting something (e.g. South African boycott).
Major Major Major Major
@Omnes Omnibus: Hugh Laurie, my secret older lover?
ETA: ten years ago vintage.
Omnes Omnibus
@Major Major Major Major: Good luck to you. I know he went to Eton, but I think he is long term happily married.
ETA: Ageist.
celticdragonchick
@tobie:
Loomis is a nut on some things.
He thinks the military should be able to unionize.
yeah….I can see that really working out well.
redshirt
@SFAW: Cohen was solid. A Republican I’ve voted for in the past and I guess I don’t regret it being reasonable then, but knowing what I know now, I regret it.
eclare
That is great artwork, John. Well done. Had no idea.
Major Major Major Major
@Omnes Omnibus: some people look better when they’re 57 instead of 47, Hugh Laurie is not one of them.
Ian
@Corner Stone:
Can we not do that and can you please not incite violence against people who disagree with you?
redshirt
@Omnes Omnibus: Anglophobe? There’s a word for it I think.
Major Major Major Major
@redshirt: you best switch languages then.
Omnes Omnibus
@redshirt: Fearing one culture is a gateway to xenophobia.
Prescott Cactus
@celticdragonchick: Somethings? I couldn’t thru the debate article. Zevon’s estate should sue to remove the name from the blog.
Union military? What could go wrong? Coffee breaks, OT after 8 hours, travel pay. For fvcks sake.
Major Major Major Major
@Omnes Omnibus: can we still be scared of xenomorphs though?
redshirt
@Omnes Omnibus: I don’t fear the English. Not anymore. They’re done – and in the end they did it to themselves, Trump style. A cautionary tale perhaps.
redshirt
@Major Major Major Major: Um, I speak American.
Major Major Major Major
@Prescott Cactus: I don’t think that’s how copyright law works.
Omnes Omnibus
@Major Major Major Major: If you tell me what they are, i may be able to offer an opinion.
@redshirt: You said British at the beginning.
Major Major Major Major
@Omnes Omnibus: the things from Alien.
NotMax
@Major Major Major Major
Yes, except if they’re cute.
;)
Omnes Omnibus
@Major Major Major Major: Oh, yeah. Fear the fuck out of those.
Adam L Silverman
@celticdragonchick: He’s a smart guy, but every problem for him is a nail and every solution is a hammer.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: He is good in his area of expertise. Outside of it, less so.
Comrade Luke
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Boo fucking hoo, he wanted to raise taxes. Taxes need to be raised, and if you think this is peace time, you’re living in more of a dreamworld than anyone can imagine.
redshirt
Your font choice sucks Cole.
redshirt
@Omnes Omnibus: Big difference.
Independent Wales!
Omnes Omnibus
@Comrade Luke: You are weird.
@redshirt: You did not support yout original position. Sorry. The Welsh are British.
Edited
Brachiator
@Iowa Old Lady:
I guess I can understand it. The campaign season is kinda long, people have other stuff to do, maybe has a long summer vacation. Heck, radio and TV spots don’t go into high gear until now.
The debate and subsequent debate discussion might help focus attention. And it’s a good time to help GOTV.
JR in WV
@gogol’s wife:
We do actually have British folk here, with various British accents. Not as many as NYC, certainly, or LA, but some.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: I’ve corresponded with him – he’s a very sharp guy and a very good historian. I almost emailed him about the Battle of Algiers post yesterday, but decided it wasn’t worth it. Both he, and the author of the article he linked to, had a very small sample set of faculty in PME schools that were asked about this. I know the guy from the Point and what he said was really the most important point regarding making sure the cadets understand that local governments have to have legitimacy. This is tremendously important. I brought an entire Warfighting Exercise to a stop for about fifteen minutes when I brought up the issue, as the Cultural Advisor to the Commanding General, what exactly the OPORD, based on the Security Council resolution, meant by restore the legitimate government. Was it: the guy in power five minutes before the invasion who then bugged out with the US country team into exile or someone/something that will have broad acceptance among the host country population that has suffered an almost year long occupation prior to our getting their with the coalition to drive out the invaders and occupiers in the notional scenario? This makes a tremendous difference in terms of theater strategy and planning.
This is the key question, and key doctrinal/conceptual flaw (among many) from the doctrine dealing with Counterinsurgency. And that was something else no one discussed: the fact that the historiography in FM 3-24 and now ADP and ADRP 3-24 (the previous CAC Commander redid the naming schema for doctrinal publications because Field Manual was, apparently, confusing). is all hosed up. It conflates all the forms of low intensity warfare, it misrepresents the history of several terrorist campaigns such as the Tupamaros.
And what was interesting is that one of the people the original author he linked to interview trained me. And he emphasized, in my training, Fall over Trinquier and Galula. The original author didn’t contact the coordinator of USAWC’s Strategic Arts Film Program – my former teammate and a retired Marine O6 artillerist. He’s got The Battle of Dien Bien Phu in there. And based on my recommendation he’s got The Gatekeepers. In my culture, strategy, and policy class I used The Gatekeepers and the PBS documentary “The Airmen and the Headhunters” about Task Force Z from WW II. I used to assist with the Mideast elective, the Afghan elective, and the SE Asian elective – none of them showed The Battle of Algiers.
And at the Point the O5 that the original author interviewed is in charge of the Combatting Terrorism Center, not the Middle Eastern Studies section director. The latter is a longtime friend and colleague. So the entire assumption that the article is based on, and the conclusion the reader comes away with, is wrong: The Battle of Algiers is not what the Army/military is basing its Middle Eastern Studies education on.
RaflW
@Villago Delenda Est:
I am amazed that some people don’t suffocate while eating. I think they may be stupid enough that their epiglottis might not remember to close while they eat Captain Crunch with Dingleberries.
dww44
@Jeffro: Yep, that describes all the Republican voters, friends and family, who have come home to Trump. “I will not vote for Hillary, she’s evil, corrupt. Trump will surround himself with smart advisors…”The self deluding continues to ratchet up. i don’t see any Republicans here voting for Hillary. It has to be a GOTV effort of African-american voters and maybe energizing some young voters of all colors, even if they were Bernie supporters.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: I still say that, when he ventures into my academic space, he is good where he is good. And there, he is better than me.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: Okay.
jefft452
@redshirt: If I were to recommend a Discworld book to someone not familiar with them, I’d go with “Hogfather”
Not his best work and not my favorite, but being the “Christmas episode” of the series, it has a broad spectrum of characters from the other books and captures the feel of the series pretty well
If you like “Hogfather” you will probably like the rest of Pterry’s books
If you don’t, you might still like some of them, but I’d have to know a lot more about your interests and sense of humor to recommend one
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: Part of the lower point being that, as an expert in his area, he surrenders knowing about other things. Me, I am a magpie, a generalist. It has its own issues.
redshirt
@jefft452: I’m an Anglophobe.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: Now I’m tracking!
sigaba
@RaflW: I really wanna figure out exactly what Mr. Ramos-Pearson is thinking here, I can’t decide if we just have crazy different worldviews or he just can’t explain himself.
So he says he wants to hear the candidates talk about each others’ issues. This sounds crazy. Obviously Trump has nothing but contempt for social justice, and Hillary isn’t all that crazy about protecting American from the White Genocide. What’s Ramos-Pearson actually saying? Is he saying that he wants to hear that because he think it will help him make up his mind? Or is he saying that ideally these two people would talk about each others’ issues in some sort of civic, cooperative spirit? Is he voicing some sort of demand he has for the candidates or some kind of aspiration?
(This is of course granting Ramos-Pearson that Hillary counts “social justice” issues as a major issue of her campaign, something I don’t really concur with.)
And if they don’t do this, does this mean they’re both unworthy somehow? You tell him, “Trump told you about social justice, he told you he’d hire more cops and impose National Stop-and-Frisk.” Does Ramos-Pearson not understand that that’s Trump’s position? How exactly does he think Trump and Clinton come to their positions, or how do they originate from within their respective political coalitions? Does he think they’re arbitrary? Does he think that neither of them are particularly passionate about them? Does Ramos-Pearson not understand the moral and ideological entailments of political positions? And how people can’t really give them up or toss them aside, even for the sake of compromise? Indeed these people get to where they are by promising NOT to change?
Or rather, maybe he knows about primaries and political parties, he just doesn’t understand how they actually create political positions and platforms? Or maybe he DOES know, he just doesn’t accept it? Or he’s just in denial about democratic politics works?
No sir I don’t get it. I do not get these independents. And calling them low-information or stupid is misleading; a lot of them are brilliant, but they’re brilliant cranks. Independents aren’t centrist, they usually are the ones with the most nutty beliefs. They usually aren’t vacillating due to the contentious issues of the day, they’re usually vacillating because they don’t know which one is a Zeta Reticulan. or which one would be “better for Israel while still not tempting construction of the Third Temple.”
Miss Bianca
@Omnes Omnibus: Quote from a friend’s play. About the lies our brains tell us.
Miss Bianca
@Adam L Silverman: Oh…I’m tracking now.
@LAO: Isn’t there some sort of rule about never asking a question during a cross-examination that you don’t already know the answer to? How are you supposed to adhere to that rule if you haven’t interviewed the witnesses?
Miss Bianca
@Adam L Silverman: Now you’re making me want to read the post…altho’ I’ve gotten mighty impatient with Loomis since his demonstrated willingness to apologize for Trumpism. Bring up the fact that there’s no reason any white working class person could possibly support Trump that doesn’t include either racism, sexism or stupidity – or all of the above – and suddenly you’re showing Vicious Disrespect and Contempt for the White Working Man.
NotoriousJRT
@Hal:
BINGO!
redshirt
If we are to colonize space, it will be inside asteroids.
Imagine hijacking a solid iron asteroid and adding an engine. Steer it where you want.
Change the world.
NotoriousJRT
@Iowa Old Lady:
Yes, but which is the lesser of the two evils (wrings hands)?
NotoriousJRT
@redshirt:
We all have to choose the hills we might die on. I, for one, choose not to tangle with the Republcans in my family. No minds will be changed, but hearts can be wounded. I look for ways around.
Raven Onthill
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: See Our Revolution. They are, in fact, out there campaigning for candidates, taking stands on ballot initiatives, and opposing the TPP. Sanders himself is campaigning for Clinton.
Ruckus
@Fair Economist:
Given the fact that bears have higher standards than republicans Trump may be the first to not have to out run anyone else.
PIGL
@Mike J: about two men in the strangest place? That one? As bad TV goes, that was pretty darn.
Ian
@sigaba:
I don’t think your missing the overall gist of what happened, it should be noted that in 1650 England (not yet Great Britain) was coming off of a serious 10 year civil war. The people you describe (Puritans) did not stay in England. The English kicked them the F*** out of the country for supporting Cromwell. Guess where they kicked them out too?
Ian
deleted
Robert Sneddon
@redshirt:
Into the middle of downtown DC? See also OADS (Orbital Anvil Delivery System).
rikyrah
@gogol’s wife:
Sybil was the rebel in the family. I can see why Cole has a crush. ?
the wesson
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
I never forgot that too – here is the same or similar article:
http://chrishayes.org/articles/decision-makers/
NJ Maine Coon Slave
On first read I thought you said Sybil Fawlty . Made my day it did.