Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

When do the post office & the dmv weigh in on the wuhan virus?

Hot air and ill-informed banter

They fucked up the fucking up of the fuckup!

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

T R E 4 5 O N

My years-long effort to drive family and friends away has really paid off this year.

Accountability, motherfuckers.

The GOP couldn’t organize an orgy in a whorehouse with a fist full of 50s.

Tick tock motherfuckers!

Red lights blinking on democracy’s dashboard

“Squeaker” McCarthy

It’s the corruption, stupid.

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

They love authoritarianism, but only when they get to be the authoritarians.

Authoritarian republicans are opposed to freedom for the rest of us.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

I’d try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

Nancy smash is sick of your bullshit.

JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

A last alliance of elves and men. also pet photos.

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

The GOP is a fucking disgrace.

You are here: Home / Past Elections / Election 2016 / Tuesday Morning Open Thread: YES SHE DID

Tuesday Morning Open Thread: YES SHE DID

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If you didn’t watch last night, rest assured: Hillary did a fine job, and Donald Trump… repeated all his Greatest Hits from the Rallies bits. He didn’t lose a single member of his devoted “base”, but he sniffled, lied, talked over the woman on the stage, claimed that America is a job-leaking hellhole which every filthy brown terrorist can’t wait to invade, lied some more, contradicted the African-American moderator (while lying), sniffled, called President Obama “your president”, took credit for “settling” the birtherism issue, and by every metric and “optic” looked like a coked-up, aging con artist in a bad suit rambling about “the nuclear” and “the cyber”. Vox has a full transcript up, and I’m guessing one of the other front-pagers will be able to post a video later this morning.

But this is the Big Fat Gaffe that will probably attract the most attention…


Yup: He won’t release his tax returns, which are “very unfairly” being audited, since he doesn’t pay taxes, because he’s “smart”, and “they’d only squander the money.” If the Still Undecided Voters hear that clip and think to themselves, yes, that’s what I’m looking for in a president!… then we can all go watch Idiocracy as an operating manual.

Reader Interactions

296Comments

  1. 1.

    Bruce K

    I desperately want to believe that the following was heard in the two war rooms after the debate:

    On the one side: “Don’t worry, Mr. B; I’ve got a cunning plan.”

    On the other side: “Dammit, Hardison…”

  2. 2.

    Betty Cracker

    That debate was an unmitigated disaster for Trump. On some level, even he knows it, though he’ll blame the media or some other handy target rather than copping to the fact that the great and powerful Trump screwed the pooch.

    If he follows his previous pattern of lurching from one strategy to another, he’ll shit-can the “act presidential” playbook and double down on the tin-pot fascism. And he’ll arrive at the next debate more desperate and angry than ever. What could possibly go wrong?

  5. 5.

    Ceci n'est pas mon nym

    Trump now says, in spin room, he didn’t say that he was smart not to pay federal taxes–which 100 million people just saw him say.

    And of course there was his denial last night of ever saying that global warming is a hoax perpetrated by the Chinese.

    It makes me wonder whether this kind of pathological lying has worked for him in his lifetime, as it seems to be the go-to response.

    I also suspect he’s been practicing “devastating” come-back lines to the most popular critiques. “Doesn’t pay his taxes — that makes me smart.” “Said he hoped there would be lots of foreclosures in the housing crises — that’s called business“. And so forth. He’s probably all kinds of surprised that it didn’t work. (BTW, isn’t it a standard line in gangster movies when somebody kills a colleague, that “this isn’t personal, it’s just business”?)

    Or maybe he thinks it did, because he’s still in his bubble.

  6. 6.

    SFAW

    One potential side benefit is that Assange watched this, and rushed out of the Ecuadorian Embassy yelling “What.The. Fucking. FUCK?” and the London coppers grabbed him.

    Yes, I’m weird. What of it?

  7. 7.

    OzarkHillbilly

    I’m satisfied. If we lose in Nov, it won’t be because we nominated the wrong person, it will be because this country has become insanely stupid. You can’t fix stupid.

  8. 8.

    RedDirtGirl

    I’m very proud of my candidate. Will be going to the Brooklyn field office this Thursday after work to make calls. Any local BJers want to join me?

  9. 9.

    amk

    what the deep bench of eleventeen cowardly thugs couldn’t gititdone, it took a woman to gititdone.

    what the wide bench of eleventeen corrupt msm minions couldn’t gititdone, it took a woman to gititdone.

  10. 10.

    Ceci n'est pas mon nym

    Can somebody translated the Bloomberg tweet? “Traders erred toward a Clinton victory”??? That means traders erroneously predicted Clinton would wipe the floor with Trump? How is that erroneous?

  12. 12.

    Kay

    How funny that no one in the GOP field could do what Clinton did. So much for “he beat 16 people”. He beat 16 people who were afraid of him. His first match with someone who isn’t afraid of him, he loses.

  13. 13.

    Greg Gabrielse

    I was disappointed that Hillary did not connect the supposed lack of accomplishments these past 8 years to the stonewalling of the Republican Party. I think she missed a,great chance. But, I am willing to be wrong.

  14. 14.

    Amir Khalid

    Let’s wait and see what this debate does to the week’s polling results. As gratifying as it is to see Trump get pantsed on TV by Hillary, it’s more important to have people turning away from him in droves.

  16. 16.

    Greg Gabrielse

    @Kay: I think if you do the totals, Trump had about 13M votes. The others had about 15M or so. Not even a majority.

  19. 19.

    Mothra

    @Ceci n’est pas mon nym:

    I took it to mean that they had a choice of which side to lean toward, and they leaned in Clinton’s direction.

    Which is not to say that it was easy to understand. It’s the best I could make of it.

  20. 20.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Ceci n’est pas mon nym:

    It makes me wonder whether this kind of pathological lying has worked for him in his lifetime, as it seems to be the go-to response.

    I was married to a pathological liar, it’s ingrained, they just can’t help themselves. And on a regular person to person day to day basis, it does work. They have a way of putting the onus on you. You know you heard what you heard them say, but they tell you you misheard/misremember. After a while you begin to doubt your sanity.

    But what works between 2 people will not work between a psychopath and 260 billion people.

  21. 21.

    amk

    @Greg Gabrielse: Guess it’s her fault then that she actually spoke of actual accomplishments of last 8 years rather than the stupid gop talking point of “lack of accomplishments”.

  22. 22.

    Kay

    @amk:

    Ted Cruz is supposedly the Best and the Brightest on the Right in debating. Why couldn’t he do what Clinton did?

  26. 26.

    Schlemazel

    @Kay:
    They were badly hobbled by the fact that they cold not disagree with the stupid shit he said because it is what the GOP believes. Sec Clinton is under no such constraint so it really is unfair!

  27. 27.

    SFAW

    Is it too much to hope that the MSM will (collectively) say, “Sheee-it.” and start covering her campaign as REAL journalistic organizations would? As in, actually covering her and her surrogates, so that the electorate actually gets to hear what she has to say?

    Yeah, yeah, I know — might as well wish for a Jets Super Bowl victory this year.

  29. 29.

    TK

    We should talk less about Trump’s lies and more about how he doesn’t know shit. When confronted her just makes stuff up. That’s not your normal lying politician. That’s next level.

  32. 32.

    Baud

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    If we lose in Nov, it won’t be because we nominated the wrong person, it will be because this country has become insanely stupid.

    We don’t like it when the media blames “Congress” or “Washington” for what the Republicans do. It seems we also shouldn’t blame the country for what white people do. This election has clarified more than others why we can’t have nice things.

    Otherwise, completely agree with you. Clinton has exceeded my expectations this campaign. She’s been fabulous where a lot of people would have faltered.

  33. 33.

    Mustang Bobby

    It was startling to see how quickly Donald Trump went from calm and measured respondent to ranting spouter of word salad and disjointed flailing so quickly. NASA should bottle it and use it to send probes to Mars; we’d be there in twenty minutes.

  34. 34.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @raven: Not too bad other than the drugs. They make me light headed. It passes after a bit. Still kinda weak, I expect that to last for a week or 2. The shoulder is about what you would expect it to be.

  35. 35.

    Schlemazel

    I hear he has a problem with cocaine. Lots of people are talking about it – I mean, I don’t know – but that’s what they’re saying. I mean it’s probably true, but that’s what people are talking about – his cocaine problems. Tremendous problems with cocaine.

  36. 36.

    Bruce K

    @Kay: I think that Cruz’s problem may have been that he felt he had to not just take down Trump, but entice Trump’s base to come over to him. Or maybe he thought Trump would inevitably collapse in the face of his Brilliance and Rightness.

    It’s also possible that Cruz isn’t half as good as he convinced people he was, as witness his failure to take down Trump, and that Clinton would have ground him into hamburger, too.

  41. 41.

    Baud

    @TK:

    We should talk less about Trump’s lies and more about how he doesn’t know shit.

    Or we can talk about the one clear policy difference that was discussed last night. Clinton wants a more progressive tax system to raise money for jobs and child care and other good things, while Trump’s plan relies on the traditional GOP charade of tax cuts and deregulation. It’s the one issue he was not incoherent on. Oh Occupy, where art thou?

  45. 45.

    cokane

    i dunno about counting these chickens Anne. the electorate has been surprising us so far.

    that being sad, nothing was lacking in Clinton’s performance.

  46. 46.

    NorthLeft12

    @Greg Gabrielse: I think this first debate was a just about the two Presidential candidates. Sec. Clinton was correct to just focus on Deadbeat Donald.
    This will sound condescending, but most US voters don’t really understand the role that the Republican party and Congress have played in obstructing and undermining President Obama these last four years. If they did, they might have actually done something about it.
    Any mention of the Repubs would have just confused those voters and potentially let trump off the hook.

  48. 48.

    Kay

    @Schlemazel:

    They were badly hobbled by the fact that they cold not disagree with the stupid shit he said because it is what the GOP believes. Sec Clinton is under no such constraint so it really is unfair!

    It isn’t “what the GOP believes” though. Supposedly. Half the electeds in the GOP support immigration reform and 90% of them support every trade deal. There would be no TPP without Republicans in Congress. They fast-tracked it. They failed to defend their so-called principles over and over again. They stand for nothing.

  49. 49.

    Schlemazel

    @Bruce K:
    Cruz would not have been as stupid as Trump, he would have been much more difficult to take down because he can pretend to be a real human.

    The GOPs problem is that they do not disagree with Trumps positions. Not even the Bush-hate (now that he is not their President). So the only point they could dispute was his personality and the base honestly believes all their problems would be solved if Republicans were just cruder, nastier and more demanding. None of the 16 morans could compete against Trump on the field.

  54. 54.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Baud: OK, how about “it will be because a majority of the voting electorate in this country has become insanely stupid, and the rest are inadequate to fix it”?

  55. 55.

    SFAW

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    This supercut of all his sniffs is pretty funny.

    “The summer was dry like Trump’s nose when he’s been behind coke for a day and a season”

    Don’t know why that line has been running through my head.

  57. 57.

    Kay

    @Bruce K:

    It’s also possible that Cruz isn’t half as good as he convinced people he was, as witness his failure to take down Trump, and that Clinton would have ground him into hamburger, too.

    I used to loathe him but now I’m embarrassed for him. Ted Cruz can’t even defend the members of his own family. He chose Donald Trump over his wife. There are pivotal moments in peoples’ lives where they make one ethical compromise too many. That was his.

    Trump smears shit on everyone he brushes up against. He makes the people around him worse.

  59. 59.

    Schlemazel

    @Kay:

    Supposedly. Half the electeds in the GOP support immigration reform and 90% of them support every trade deal. There would be no TPP without Republicans in Congress. They fast-tracked it. They failed to defend their so-called principles over and over again. They stand for nothing.

    There is a huge disconnect between the elected officials and the base, the GOP voters. Candidates )most of them) are smart enough to know it is death on a stick to actually DO what they say but they have to say it because their voters demand it. This is part of why they are angry at ‘RINOS’ and DC. It is why they want an abusive asshole to lead the party. They think the others are weak for not doing what the GOP wants. Any party is based on what its supporters want & the shit that falls out of Trumps mouth is the same shit that fell out of Cruz, Cristy and all the other morans. Its just that the GOP voters believe that Trump means it.

  61. 61.

    Sarah, Proud and Tall

    @Schlemazel:

    I heard that he got addicted to the cocaine after taking it to numb the pain of his tertiary syphillis – at least that’s what I was told. I can’t imagine it’s true, but if that’s what people are saying….

  62. 62.

    SFAW

    @Kay:

    Ted Cruz can’t even defend the members of his own family. He chose Donald Trump over his wife.

    I’m hoping he was watching last night, and about 45 minutes in, had his own Col. Nicholson moment. And, shortly thereafter, Heidi announced she’s leaving him for Uday (or Qusay).

  66. 66.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    Joe of the Morning said if you grade by Marquess of Queensberry Rules, Hillary won. But Donald doesn’t play by the normal rules so he did better than expected. Meeka is concerned.

    I turned if off when Nicolle Wallace started making sense, somebody must have slipped LSD in my Double-Double.

  68. 68.

    Cermet

    Well, Hillary shows – as she has numerous times – she is both Presidential and extremely experienced. The ass Rump (I know), showed himself unprepared, lacking any required skills to be President, and was a total looser. As such, the polls will climb a bit in Hillary’s favor and after two weeks (at most) decline until the next debate. Mean while, as her polls do decline, there will be endless news how the Rump is gaining on Hillary. The only people more stupid than the average rump supporter, is the typical right wing news media.

  73. 73.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Kay:
    They were 16 incompetent losers. Children vulnerable to schoolyard taunts. Of course Trump trounced them in the debates. Jesus, he was going up against Mr. Rubotico and Jeb:<.

    @Schlemazel:
    From what I can tell, yes, people are now talking about Trump’s possible cocaine problem. Imagine if that’s why he won’t release his medical information?

  75. 75.

    Cermet

    @OzarkHillbilly: Not so much stupid as racist; many people confuse the two because they have so much in common. This country has an over-the-top racist element that dominates the thug party. Yes, many of those are stupid but racist first and foremost. Stupid is just their only way to justify their views.

  77. 77.

    Betty Cracker

    Trump flak Kellyanne Conway is reaching Baghdad Bob levels of dissonance on Morning Joe:

    “I have to say, certainly as a woman, I appreciated the restraint at the end — I’m not sure I would have been able to exercise it myself — but restraint is a virtue, and it’s a presidential virtue,” Conway said. “To tell Hillary Clinton, after she accused him of being terrible with women, to tell Hillary Clinton, ‘I was prepared to go rough tonight and I’m not going to do it because your husband and your daughter are here,’ that is going to grow in importance over the next couple of days as the moment of great temperament and restraint.”

    Yeah, everyone is going to forget that Trump was an incoherent, babbling fool for 90 minutes because the thrice-married, serial philandering sexist pig Trump didn’t scold HRC for her husband’s last-century horn-doggery. That’s totally going to happen.

  78. 78.

    debbie

    I hope Clinton’s prepared herself for what Trump will be throwing at her next time. With Trump’s penchant for grudges, Bill’s infidelities will be front and center, I bet.

  80. 80.

    MomSense

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Last night Colbert said that Trump seemed to be fighting a cold with cocaine.

    Last night was a hoot but it’s up to us to turn that stomping into votes. Time to turn up the donations and volunteering.

  81. 81.

    Kay

    There was always the risk that people would make a catastrophically bad choice for President. The “checks” could all fail one by one and a Trump could rise. It’s taken me a while to get used to the idea that we saw it happen, because it’s unlikely, but it was always out there as a risk.

    It’s rational to be nervous. There’s only one safeguard left at this point and it’s “independents” who are in my opinion the most poorly informed voters. We’re relying on those idiots and they are idiots, I got news for you. Half the time they don’t even know what Presidents can and can’t do- they don’t understand the federal/state spheres. These are the people who bitch about federal law to a county commissioner and then complain to their US Senator about property taxes. They’re often in the wrong place :)

  84. 84.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Schlemazel:

    Its just that the GOP voters believe that Trump means it.

    Because Trump is saying what they’ve been wanting to hear all along, openly racist shit like Mexicans are rapists, and blacks need harsher police treatment because they have gun-wielding gangs roaming the streets. They only cared about ‘conservative values’ as the closest they could get to this stuff. Mind you, that means there is some disconnect, because the GOP has not delivered what their dog whistles have promised for 36 years. They haven’t stopped minorities from gaining more and more power and equality in the US.

  85. 85.

    SiubhanDuinne

    I, for one, am greatly looking forward to the inevitable “Bad Lip Reading” version of the debate.

  88. 88.

    Botsplainer

    I just want to put a pin in this thought – for Trump’s “hard working white people” base, they’re in their fourth decade of trickle down, a movement conservative economic policy that has failed them by the millions.

    They’re reacting to it in their rage by attempting to give movement conservatives even more power to fuck them over.

    It is BREXIT.

  89. 89.

    SFAW

    @debbie:

    I hope Clinton’s prepared herself for what Trump will be throwing at her next time. With Trump’s penchant for grudges, Bill’s infidelities will be front and center, I bet.

    I expect she was prepared for it last night. Maybe even hoping Trump would “go there.”

  90. 90.

    qwerty42

    @Schlemazel: … he would have been much more difficult to take down because he can pretend to be a real human. …
    Well, once you get past that whole “Zodiac Killer” thing.

  91. 91.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Botsplainer:
    Well, yeah. It was supposed to hurt them, but destroy minorities, at which point hard working white people would magically live the good life they deserved. Instead, a black man became president. They’ve moved from ‘mean-spirited shits’ to ‘fanatical race warriors’ now.

  92. 92.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @SFAW: To repeat from #34:

    @raven: Not too bad other than the drugs. They make me light headed. It passes after a bit. Still kinda weak, I expect that to last for a week or 2. The shoulder is about what you would expect it to be.

    It’s easy to miss a comment.

  97. 97.

    SFAW

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Thanks. Sorry I missed it the first time.

    But: did you bring enough drugs to share with everybody in class? (After Corrupt Deadbeat Donnie takes his cut, of course.)

  99. 99.

    Kay

    @debbie:

    How does that benefit him, though? His big ace in the hole is attacking her husband? She doesn’t have to respond to that at all. It’s an attack that only works if it gets to her, and she’s much more disciplined than him. It isn’t going to get to her. It’s desperate and it will come off as desperate.

    i hope he does it.

  100. 100.

    PaulWartenberg2016

    @Kay:

    Ted Cruz is supposedly the Best and the Brightest on the Right in debating. Why couldn’t he do what Clinton did?

    Because Cruz wanted to court/gain the Trump supporters rather than alienate them. He was hoping he could reap that support when/if Trump dropped out of the primaries (which was the big hope among Republicans because they dreaded Trump fleeing to start a third party run).

    Trump grabbed the deep pool of Far Right racists and anti-government nut jobs right off the bat, which made it impossible for the other candidates to directly punch at him in fear of their losing the primary races. As a result, Trump could punch them while they all punched each other, gaining strength in the polls and winnowing the field of wimps down one by one until it was just him, Cruz, and Kasich (the only sane conservative candidate who still couldn’t rally the remnants of the sane voters into an honorable opposition).

  102. 102.

    debbie

    @Kay:

    How does that benefit him, though?

    It gets the haters going and it (in his eyes) humiliates her. Like Marco’s little hands.

  103. 103.

    Cat48

    I’m very proud of Hillary’s performance and she looked great,last night in her red power suit. She looked like she was having fun. I think the next debate is a townhall so I don’t think her sniffing, snorting opponent will get to try and smear her w/Bill’s girlfriends like he wanted to do last night.

  105. 105.

    nonynony

    @Kay:

    How funny that no one in the GOP field could do what Clinton did. So much for “he beat 16 people”. He beat 16 people who were afraid of him. His first match with someone who isn’t afraid of him, he loses.

    They were hobbled by the fact that they wanted his basket of deplorables. They couldn’t punch him nearly as hard because they wanted his voters, even the worst of the worst. Clinton has correctly written off the deplorables and is more concerned about reaching undecided voters, pumping up her own base, and maybe convincing younger voters that she’s not the monster that their parents claim she is.

    Also let’s face it – to a Republican audience his coming out and saying he doesn’t pay taxes and that’s “smart” is a winning line. If Cruz had baited him the way Clinton baited him last night with that one in front of a Republican audience he probably would have gotten a standing ovation. Even the ones who think tax dodging is a bad thing don’t like paying taxes and have some level of respect for people who figure out all the loopholes to avoid paying them. In fact pretty much all of his “gaffes” last night amount to him doing things that the Republican base generally likes but which don’t play well in front of a general audience.

    @debbie:

    I hope Clinton’s prepared herself for what Trump will be throwing at her next time. With Trump’s penchant for grudges, Bill’s infidelities will be front and center, I bet.

    I’m sure she was prepared for it last night, especially given that he telegraphed it by bringing up Gennifer Flowers again. Frankly I’m surprised he didn’t go there – maybe his self-preservation kicked in at the last minute and his reptile hindbrain realized that if he did she’d likely have something ready to filet him with.

  106. 106.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Cermet: Forgive me if I’m wrong, but isn’t racism stupid? I understand what you are saying, but to me one gives birth to the other. One has to be factually blind (stupid) in order to be racist.

  109. 109.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    @eclare: I liked that even when he was whining about how mean she was to him in the hundreds of millions she was spending on TV ads attacking him, he was trying to brag about how smart and successful he is and how little he has spent on TV. He’s badly behind in raising money, locking up ad buys, having an actual election organization, etc., but it’s actually an advantage in TrumpWorld.

    “I’m cheap! I don’t pay my contractors and my businesses go bust after crushing people who put their trust in me. But I’m rich and successful because that’s the way business works and I’m smart enough to take advantage. We need people like me, people who understand business, in the White House. Vote for me!”

    Somehow, I don’t think he realizes that that comes across as much worse than Rmoney spitting Entitled! in his 47% video. He’s too stupid and/or brain damaged to understand.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  111. 111.

    Kay

    @debbie:

    Clinton is really tough. They’re delusional if they think she’ll take that bait.

    This is my own opinion, but I feel like I recognize the particular way Hillary Clinton was raised. She was raised to believe that taking offense is a form of pride- it’s ego. She says this over and over and over- “I don’t care what they say about ME- I have this larger cause”. I would bet that was drilled into her from the time she was 5 years old. It’s a very specific definition of “humility”. In religious terms it’s “service”- the idea is she’s a servant to others FIRST. That’s not “humiliation” in that tradition, not cringing or weak. It’s elevating and inspiring. It MEANS you are strong.

  113. 113.

    Betty Cracker

    @amk: She nailed his preternaturally orange hide to the fucking wall on the tax returns, and it was a thing of beauty. Every possible negative related to that point was rehashed before an audience of 100M.

  114. 114.

    Gravenstone

    @Cat48:

    I think the next debate is a townhall so I don’t think her sniffing, snorting opponent will get to try and smear her w/Bill’s girlfriends like he wanted to do last night.

    Assuming that Trump 1) attends the next debate and 2) actually chooses to address any given audience question rather than shambling down his own chosen tangential path. If he thinks attacking Bill’s infidelities is the way to go, he’ll jump on it at his earliest imagined opportunity.

  115. 115.

    SFAW

    @MJS:

    Col. Markinson.

    Nah, Cruz would never kill himself, nor even admit reality to anyone. (I’m distinguishing that from “truth,” because after all, it’s Cruz.)

    Nicholson is more appropriate, but Nicholson was certainly far more honorable than Pissed-He-Wasn’t-an-Anchor-Baby Cruz

  118. 118.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @SFAW: I don’t share my drugs with anybody. I hoard them for the times I’m really gonna need them, like possibly Nov 9.

  119. 119.

    eclare

    Holy shit! Trump calling in to Fox and said the beauty pageant winner was the worst, had a lot of problems, and she gained weight. He’s doubling down on insulting women.

  123. 123.

    cokane

    @PaulWartenberg2016: yep this. people seem to have some memory loss on her, in claiming Clinton’s doing what no Repub could (even forgetting that there was a woman in the primary). They almost all had to play soft with Trump.

    Bush and Kasich kind of went at him, but that was it.

  126. 126.

    SFAW

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I hoard them for the times I’m really gonna need them, like possibly Nov 9.

    You realize that, if YOU need them on 11/9 (hmm — that’s “9/11” backwards. Coincidence?), we ALL will need them. Well, except for NR Better make sure none of the FPers has your home address, otherwise you might have some unexpected company.

  129. 129.

    Cermet

    So the Rump also picked up the name “Sniffles”; funny; maybe coke was his drug of choice before the debate. Now, that is prepping for a debate …lol.

  130. 130.

    Kay

    @eclare:

    I don’t know if you’ve run into this, but one of the many whines on the Right is they’re no longer allowed to express every thought that runs thru their heads on any woman’s appearance. It’s one of the “rights” they’ve lost. Apparently it’s hugely important that we all hear which physical attributes they value in women.

    What I love about it with Trump is this : he is overweight. He’s in horrible shape. It’s the reason he never takes that too-big jacket off. Here’s a politically incorrect opinion for the men of punditry to ponder. Donald Trump looks terrible. Biden is 5 years older and looks 10X better.

  131. 131.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Kay:

    i hope he does it.

    Yep, it would allow Hillary to take the high road, something like “Donald, I refuse to delve into the sewer of your personal life, including but not limited to, your multiple marriages and philanderings and self admitted repeated brushes with STDs, your long bragged of drug abuse, …. etc etc etc”

  132. 132.

    amk

    Also. Too. Loved how she kept calling him donald while he was forced to go all PC and call her secretary clinton.

  133. 133.

    Betty Cracker

    I never knew the source of Trump’s hatred for Rosie O’Donnell. Here it is. Shortly after the one-minute mark, she does a brutal impression of his hair!

  135. 135.

    Dmbeaster

    @Ceci n’est pas mon nym: It is like the expression “err on the side of caution,” which means to act in a less risky manner concerning an uncertain event. It does not mean that being cautious is the erroneous position.

  136. 136.

    gene108

    @Kay:

    How funny that no one in the GOP field could do what Clinton did. So much for “he beat 16 people”. He beat 16 people who were afraid of him. His first match with someone who isn’t afraid of him, he loses.

    Hillary is not trying to court his supporters. The rest of the Republicans were trying to court those voters and vanquish Trump at the same time.

    None of them dared be mean to Trump, for fear of alienating his supporters.

    Says a lot about the state of the modern Republican Party, when no one dared call him out for his racism, bad business dealings, etc. because of losing support of the base.

  137. 137.

    Kay

    Dem pollster Mellman on debate: “It solidified Clinton supporters while creating further doubts among Trump supporters and undecideds”

    Judging from my emails and phone calls last night it reassured Democrats.

    They need that. It’s just the nature of who they are.

  140. 140.

    Iowa Old Lady

    @MattF: Oh good point. He went after the beauty pageant winner in place of going directly after the woman who kicked his butt last night. He’s incredibly transparent. How did he ever manage to out-deal anyone?

  141. 141.

    Jack the Second

    @Frankensteinbeck: I just assumed he wouldn’t release his medical information because 70% of men aged 70 suffer from impotence, and need a prescription for a little blue pill to keep up with their younger wife. (Or a little white powder?)

  142. 142.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    @Mothra:

    It’s a strange (mistaken) back-formation from “to err on the side of caution.” But err does not mean to lean that way; it means that if you’re going to make a mistake—an error—you should do it on that side.

    The writer just should have said, “Traders leaned toward a Clinton victory.”

  143. 143.

    Kay

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    It presupposes something that I don’t think is true- it presupposes Hillary Clinton lives every day cringing in humiliation over her husband’s affair. I don’t think that;s true and if it isn’t true she isn’t vulnerable on it. There’s 2 ways to look at self-sacrifice. One is as a sign of weakness – humiliation. The other is as a sign of strength- humility. I would bet 50 dollars Hillary Clinton was raised to believe the second.

    It’s funny to me that conservatives hate her so much because this a REALLY old idea- that there’s strength in humility. It’s very traditional.

  144. 144.

    p.a.

    What about the press’ Calvinball? All tRump has to do is show up and not tug on his schmenzer next debate: TURNAROUND FOR TRUMP!

  146. 146.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    @Bruce K:

    I think that Cruz’s problem may have been that he felt he had to not just take down Trump, but entice Trump’s base to come over to him.

    Then he was ignorant of Republican Politics 101. The base will always crawl home to vote for whomever has the R beside his name. Cruz should have crushed Trump by any means necessary. The Trump voters would have rallied to him eventually, just like all of Cruz’s supporters will no doubt pull the lever for Trump—even though as a godless liar and adulterer he betrays everything the Christian right purports to hold dear.

  148. 148.

    MJS

    @Iowa Old Lady: There’s no evidence I know of to suggest that he ever actually out-dealt anyone. He got a “small” loan from his father, and did worse with it than he would have had he just invested it. His name is mud among American banks – he has to go to Europe to get financing. You’ll note last night when he said what his responsibility was, it was to his “business, and his family.” The normal completion to that sentence from a truly successful businessman is, “to the stockholders.” But his forays into publicly traded companies have been unmitigated disasters.

  149. 149.

    gene108

    @NorthLeft12:

    How about Hermione versus Gilderoy Lockhart?

    Lockhart was a shameless self-promoter, who told tall tales that exceeded his ability to actually do them. He was not malicious to other people.

    Trump is very malicious towards others.

  150. 150.

    low-tech cyclist

    Clinton: “Donald just criticized me for preparing for this debate. Know what else I prepared for? To be president.”

    Damn. I want that on a bumper sticker.

  152. 152.

    low-tech cyclist

    @MJS:

    But his forays into publicly traded companies have been unmitigated disasters.

    For the investors, that is. He’s usually sucked enough money out in salary paid to himself that he comes out ahead personally.

  153. 153.

    Hal

    My favorite facebook posts this morning are from obvious Trump supporters complaining about how terrible both candidates were last night. “Wow, that debate was terrible. Both candidates suck!” They accept the shit show candidate they support but can’t deny his disastrous performance, so why not just say they both sucked? Makes it easier to keep supporting Trump if you can convince yourself that everyone is voting for a loser.

  155. 155.

    MJS

    @p.a.: That “comeback” theme will start within the next day or two. Trump will attend some rallies, claim victory, and the press will believe him. If the polls don’t put Hillary back up by 10, the meme will be that the debate didn’t really hurt Trump, and people don’t really care about debates anyway.

    The good news is Trump will fall for all of this, and show up for the next debate, where he will spend most of his time complaining about the initial reaction to the 1st debate, and assure everyone that Sean Hannity said he won the debate. He will spend zero time preparing for the second debate beyond coming up with ways to spin his performance in the first as a win.

  156. 156.

    gene108

    @debbie:

    Bill’s infidelities will be front and center, I bet.

    Trump has too many infidelities of his own. He does not have any moral high ground to stand on here.

    Even he might realize it.

  157. 157.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @MJS:

    But his forays into publicly traded companies have been unmitigated disasters.

    By design as I understand it.

  159. 159.

    MJS

    @low-tech cyclist: Agreed, but what is pounded into your head from the first day of business school is that the mission of a publicly traded company is to maximize the value of the company’s stock. Thankfully a few media outlets have at least nodded in the direction of Trump’s alleged business acumen being yet another lie.

  160. 160.

    p.a.

    tRump= Dunning-Kruger, outside of the narrow, specialized, borderline illegal world of NYC real estate?

  163. 163.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Trump comes out against the 2nd Amendment:

    “No, the argument is that we have to take the guns away from these people that have them and they are bad people that have them,” he said, pivoting to talk about violent criminals in cities like Chicago.

    via TPM

    And don’t give me any of that weak ass “you’re quoting him out of context” crap. Of course I am.

  164. 164.

    MJS

    @gene108: Not a chance of him realizing that. To Trump, Hillary got cheated on. That makes her the loser. Trump is the one who did the cheating, which makes him the winner. Alternatively, since he will never admit to the most obvious fact, he may claim that he never cheated on anyone. Either way, he will bring Bill’s infidelities into the next debate.

  167. 167.

    aimai

    @Iowa Old Lady: I don’t think he did outdeal anyone. I think the truth is he has been swindled as much as he has swindled others. I remember seeing a long, bragging, interview with him about buying his first big hotel in New York. He presented it as a triumph of his will–he wanted it and he bought it. But if you listened closely to what he was saying he vastly overpaid for it, didn’t do any kind of due diligence, and had to sell it back to the bank at a loss five years later. He was very skilled at reframing what had happened so that he sounded like he was a great businessman, but really it was a stupid, costly, deal that he should have avoided and that in the end nearly ruined him.

  168. 168.

    Tenar Darell

    @eclare:
    Somewhere in TV land…

    TRUMP: She gained weight, it was terrible! She was fat, I tell you, FAT!!
    Clip Hound: Hey Max, I’ve got another “Donald insulting a woman” clip for the next commercial, what should I label this one?

  169. 169.

    MJS

    @OzarkHillbilly: I doubt they were by design. He’s just not a good businessman. He would have loved to make a killing in his casinos. But he couldn’t. If you can’t make money where the deck is literally stacked in your favor, you’re not a good businessman. Any money he actually has can be attributed to the rigged nature of the system.

  170. 170.

    Another Scott

    @amk: Hillary: Donnie started with $14M from his dad.
    Donnie: That’s not true, it was a very small loan…

    In TrumpWorld, $14M is “very small”.

    She laid out the most beautiful rake sculpture on that stage, and he happily walked on all of it, talking about how he’s the greatest …

    I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: ‘O Lord make my enemies ridiculous.’ And God granted it.

    – Voltaire.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  172. 172.

    SFAW

    @gene108:

    He was not malicious to other people.

    Not quite true — Lockhart erased memories of those who could “out” him. Still not as vicious as Corrupt Deadbeat Donnie, however.

  175. 175.

    Keith P.

    Haha, Mike Pence is like a political android, with the right look and mannerisms. Hearing him spin Trump’s performance as a terrific night is pretty funny.

  176. 176.

    JMG

    @Kay: One thing almost every human being learns at an early age. It is neither polite nor smart to poke around into other people’s marriages/sexual relationships. Doing so in a public forum is self-immolation. The whole Monica thing turned around when the Starr Report was published and most people reacted with, “this is really creepy and none of my business.” The wingers and the Village never realized that’s what happened, even after the ’98 election results. There is no way Trump could bring this up without disaster for himself.

  177. 177.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @aimai:

    but really it was a stupid, costly, deal that he should have avoided and that in the end nearly ruined him.

    Good thing Daddy was there to bail him out.

  182. 182.

    Patricia Kayden

    @SFAW: No. Assange may feel that he has to release that “October Surprise” against Secretary Clinton sooner than he wanted to. Assange is completely Team Trump. Trump’s messy debate performance may force Assange’s hand.

  183. 183.

    SFAW

    @aimai:

    He presented it as a triumph of his will–he wanted it and he bought it. But if you listened closely to what he was saying he vastly overpaid for it, didn’t do any kind of due diligence, and had to sell it back to the bank at a loss five years later.

    I read a similar thing about that, but don’t recall which hotel. It was his shiny object du jour. Just as the Presidency is his latest shiny object.

  185. 185.

    TK

    Trump trying to blame his sniffing on the mic is pretty amazing. Nothing. Literally nothing is ever his fault.

  186. 186.

    Applejinx

    I’m delighted with Hillary this morning. Didn’t actually worry last night, when going to bed and ignoring the debate.

    I figured one way or another, she’d win. I wasn’t wrong.

    But I’m delighted with how HAPPY she was whilst doing it. And doubly delighted because she’s running on a fullthroatedly liberal platform against a bozo who is the ideal cartoon antagonist set up to make the old right wing bullshit look bad. (this INCLUDES ‘neoliberalism’).

    It’s the look of somebody who always wanted to go forward with her Carter-esque christian values, was forestalled for literally decades, and has lived long enough to see all her Christmases come at once. That little wriggle of delight! Adorable.

    Not sure when she did that, but I’m guessing it’s after Trump nailed himself to the cross repeatedly. It looks like Hillary is completely confident that she can run on her current platform and mop the floor with the guy, AND govern effectively after winning. What I’m seeing is a sense of ‘IT’S WORKING’ from Hillary. She’s chosen a leftward path without a trace of trying to pander to Trump voters, and it’s obvious that she’s finding it good.

    I agree. Let’s give her a wave election, and there’s a good chance we’ll like her even better than Obama (who is one of the greatest Presidents in our entire history).

    The great thing is, this is not that hard. The way we live now, our politics now, is not normal. It won’t be that hard to swing toward normal, and we will thrive. It’s an unnatural act to fuck with our government and populace as hard as recent decades of deeply right-wing rule have done.

    We can do better. (feel free to take that for a slogan, Hilla-cutie! Get bubbly about it! It’s true!)

    We can do so much better.

  187. 187.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @MJS:

    I doubt they were by design.

    In at least one case it was. He loaded up a company (forget which) with debt while selling off it’s assets and lining his own pockets with the profits from the sales, then took it public, and then rewarded himself with millions of dollars worth of “management fees” until the biz went bankrupt. All at the cost of the shareholders.

    He got millions of $s. They got fvcked.

  188. 188.

    TK

    Can I just say this site needs a better comment system. With Livefyre and Disqus and other options why is this site stuck in 1999?

  189. 189.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @SFAW: He was going to wipe out Harry and Ron’s memories and then leave Ginny and them for dead. Pretty dawgdamned evil if you ask me. Not sure if Trump, bad as he is, has done anything like that.

  192. 192.

    low-tech cyclist

    @Kay:

    Judging from my emails and phone calls last night it reassured Democrats.
    They need that. It’s just the nature of who they are.

    Not this time; this was much more serious.

    A Trump win this November would really be like the barbarians at the gates breaking through, sacking the city, and putting it to the torch.

    And with the polls that came out over the past few days showed a basically even race…well, even if there’s really only a 30% chance, rather than 50%, of the barbarians burning it all down, that’s reason to be quite sensibly scared shitless.

    Any reasonable Democrat last night was hoping for a reason to believe the gates were sure to hold after all. Because we are, you know, people who don’t want to see the bad guys burn it all down, not because we have any unusual need of reassurance.

  193. 193.

    MomSense

    @Kay:

    If der Trump, bless his heart, raises Bill’s infidelities doesn’t he open the door to lots of scrutiny about his multiple marriages, children out of wedlock, and playboy behavior? I don’t see how he raises that topic without blowback and I bet there are lots of women who have been through it and will be even more sympathetic to Hillz.

  194. 194.

    SFAW

    @MattF:

    The ‘bad people’ who have guns are surprisingly easy to identify.

    Really? How so? Is there some identifying characteristic that the sharp-eyed could glom onto?

  197. 197.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    @OzarkHillbilly: No, good people have guns and they wouldn’t be stopped and frisked because they’re good people and can keep their guns. There are “bad people” whose guns would be found via stop-n-frisk and those guns should be confiscated.

  199. 199.

    Another Scott

    @SFAW: I think it was the Plaza.

    He decided he wanted it and was willing to pay any price to get it. As usual in such situations, he lost his shirt.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  200. 200.

    singfoom

    Hillary landed lots of hits last night but I was still shocked to hear Trump say that he pays 0 dollars in Federal taxes that that makes him smart and then he pivots to our infrastructure being so bad. Maybe if people like him paid their fair share our infrastructure would be better?
    I don’t think last night will move any 27 percenters but it might move some people in the middle. Was hilarious to see MSM people tweeting about Hillary smiling or being over prepared. A whole lotta derp out there.

  201. 201.

    Betty Cracker

    @Patricia Kayden: Someone on Twitter posted a clip from a recent interview with Assange, and the interviewer was asking Assange to describe the disruptive potential of the upcoming leak, and he said something along the lines of “that depends on how the media treats it.” In other words, he’s got nothing.

  206. 206.

    Kay

    @low-tech cyclist:

    Because we are, you know, people who don’t want to see the bad guys burn it all down, not because we have any unusual need of reassurance.

    THIS time we do but we need reassurance every cycle so it’s not an excuse :)

    I like it about Democrats. I don’t have that much in common with people who strut around all confident as “winners!” We fret and then we talk it to death. It’s baked in.

  207. 207.

    different-church-lady

    As far as the press goes, if (when) Trump fails, we need to nail every single one of the fuckers who enabled him to the wall. Nail, glue, paste and mortar them. Never let a single one of them off the hook.

  211. 211.

    SFAW

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    He was going to wipe out Harry and Ron’s memories and then leave Ginny and them for dead.

    I don’t think that was the case (although it’s been awhile since I read the book). Why would he bother to wipe out their memory if he were going to leave them for the basilisk? There were other ways to prevent them from leaving, etc. Plus, Lockhart didn’t have a history of killing, except at Agincourt.

    Anyway, just picking nits.

  212. 212.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Kay:

    We fret and then we talk it to death.

    Because most of us** have been wrong a time or 2 in the past and we don’t want to make another mistake this time too.

    **Well, some of you people anyway.

  213. 213.

    Drunkenhausfrau

    And yet, today’s Chicago Tribune presents the debate as a tie over “clashing visions” and their page two asshole pundit says Trump cleared the bar, and their editorial page says it’s a nail biter!!! If it weren’t for my addiction to the comics and Herr Drunken’s sports page obsession, I would cancel this stupid right wing rag!!

  214. 214.

    Immanentize

    @amk:

    Also. Too. Loved how she kept calling him donald while he was forced to go all PC and call her secretary clinton.

    Watching Trump struggle last night to call her Secretary Clinton, I got the distinct sense he did that because if he ever called her Hillary, he couldn’t help himself but say “Crooked Hillary.” No self control whatsoever.

  215. 215.

    Kay

    @MomSense:

    I don’t think he said it because he was telegraphing a political tactic. He said it because it bothers him, a lot, that people think he’s a bad person.

    This?

    Donald Trump: “I was going to hit her on her husband’s women,” but he decided not to because Chelsea Clinton was in the room.

    Is about HIM. He’s a good person and that’s why he didn’t hit her. Everything he says is about him.

    Incidentally, he’s too fucking stupid and archaic to even say it right. “Her husband’s women”? He talks about women like we’re property. He has spent his entire life wrapped in a soft blankie. He didn’t have to progress from 1970’s man, so he didn’t.

  218. 218.

    MomSense

    @SFAW:

    He tried to wipe out their memories but he used Ron’s broken wand so the curse backfired and wiped his memory instead. The way Lockhart wrote his books was to steal the memories of accomplished wizards, wipe out their memories, and then promote himself.

  219. 219.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @TK:

    We should talk less about Trump’s lies and more about how he doesn’t know shit. When confronted her just makes stuff up. That’s not your normal lying politician. That’s next level.

    Like Newt is a dumb man’s idea of a smart man, so Trump is a dumb man’s idea of a politician .

  220. 220.

    MomSense

    @Kay:

    I think they’re just trying to spin a disastrous performance with a lie about his fictional decision to be virtuous.

  221. 221.

    D58826

    @cokane: 200 + years ago on leaving the Constitutional Convention Ben Franklin was asked about what they had done. He replied ‘we have given you a republic, if you can keep it’. We will find out on Nov. 8th if the majority of the American people still want to keep it.

  222. 222.

    amk

    Major Garrett ‏@MajorCBS 35m35 minutes ago

    On @foxandfriends @realDonaldTrump said he won a @CBSNews post-debate poll. We did not conduct a post-debate poll.
    2,216 retweets 1,787 likes

    the fucker is worse liar than mittbot.

  224. 224.

    SFAW

    @MomSense:

    Yes, I know all that. My (attempted) point was that he (probably) wasn’t going to leave them for dead, and that doing so would have been far more evil/vicious than he actually was. (I say “probably” because Rowling would have had to take a different plot branch — Lockhart not losing his memory — for readers to find out.)

    Trump, on the other hand …

  225. 225.

    Kay

    @MomSense:

    There is an adult argument for Hillary Clinton’s role in the response to her husband’s affairs. I don’t 100% buy it, but it can be made. She should have defended Lewinsky who was really young and was treated insanely brutally. I feel bad about how Lewinsky was treated. I’m not ashamed of Bill Clinton having affair(s). I’m ashamed of how that young woman was treated, by just about everyone. I have a daughter who was that age and I personally was a really reckless idiot at that age.

    However. That argument is beyond the world view of Donald Trump- he not only can’t make it- it wouldn’t occur to him that “the women” were even people.

  227. 227.

    MattF

    @debbie: I’d assume she’s prepared for that. The question is why Trump wouldn’t realize the subject is an enormous rake that he shouldn’t step on.

  229. 229.

    NickM

    @gene108: I don’t think Trump will realize he has no ground to criticize Hillary for Bill Clinton’s infidelities. Trump has zero self-awareness — I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything like it but I guess it speaks to sociopathy (where he doesn’t feel shame or have a conscience) paired with stupidity (and thus lacking in the ability to model others’ “normal” behavior) and living in a bubble (where he’s never suffered consequences for his sociopathy and stupidity).

  230. 230.

    rikyrah

    @low-tech cyclist:

    Any reasonable Democrat last night was hoping for a reason to believe the gates were sure to hold after all. Because we are, you know, people who don’t want to see the bad guys burn it all down, not because we have any unusual need of reassurance.

    THIS
    THIS

    A thousand times THIS.

    A President Trump would sign a PAUL RYAN BUDGET.

    The American Social Safety Net would be GONE.

  232. 232.

    rikyrah

    @MomSense:

    I don’t see how he raises that topic without blowback and I bet there are lots of women who have been through it and will be even more sympathetic to Hillz.

    Even women who left their husbands over infidelity would be galled at a muthaphucka that cheated on wife 1 with wife 2 and wife 3 with wife 2 bringing up infidelity AGAINST THE WIFE that stayed and forgave.

  233. 233.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @SFAW: One more nit to pick: After erasing their memories would they even know why they were there? (easy prey for the basilisk) In the movie he does not state specifically that Ron and Harry will die, but he does state that he “would be tragically too late to save poor Ginny” which allows for the possibility that he would bring out R & H just abandoning Ginny. Just now reading book #1, so don’t know how the books differ from the movie.

  234. 234.

    TS

    Woman on MSNBC talking about emails – so help me – it is all they have. People don’t trust Sec Clinton because emails – very similar to the birthers – they have nothing.

  235. 235.

    rikyrah

    The REAL GOP Crime Bosses know the score….and, that’s why their checkbooks are CLOSED.

    …………….

    Quick Takes: Trump Gets Zero Support From Fortune 100 CEO’s
    by Nancy LeTourneau
    September 26, 2016 4:59 PM

    * I doubt if it matters much to his supporters, but this is exactly the kind of thing that could get under Donald Trump’s thin skin.

    No chief executive at the nation’s 100 largest companies had donated to Republican Donald Trump’s presidential campaign through August, a sharp reversal from 2012, when nearly a third of the CEOs of Fortune 100 companies supported GOP nominee Mitt Romney.

  236. 236.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @rikyrah:

    A President Trump would sign a PAUL RYAN BUDGET.

    The American Social Safety Net would be GONE.

    Trump is much worse than that – his policies would quickly create an economic depression. That’s why all the money people don’t like him.

  238. 238.

    JMG

    @rikyrah: CEOs are men (and some women) who have risen to the top of massive bureaucracies. The skill set needed to do that, which include knowing some stuff, would make them naturally hostile to a street hustler like Trump.

  243. 243.

    liberal

    @rikyrah: Yes, that’s terrible, though honestly we could build the safety net back up by just printing the money.

    What would be completely gone is Federal lands. The fucks would give it away to the states for free, who would give it away to their friends for a song.

  244. 244.

    liberal

    @rikyrah: Well…it’s also because Trump is a fascist, and frankly, the base support for fascists comes from small business, not big business.

    Not to mention that Trump’s talk about trade and immigration isn’t what big business wants to hear. (No, I don’t myself believe he’d really do anything about those things.)

  245. 245.

    Weaselone

    @D58826:

    Mostly agree, but it’s more like whether a plurality of the people who actually vote want to keep it. If it depended on a majority, we would be screwed because most likely nonvoters + Trump voters + 3rd party voters will be a sizable majority.

  246. 246.

    SFAW

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    After erasing their memories would they even know why they were there? (easy prey for the basilisk)

    Understood. My point was that there were other spells to incapacitate them, were he interested in leaving them to die. Wiping their memories of his actions (I think he was able to do selective erasure with his other victims) was his way of having witnesses to verify his claims of “heroics” in the Chamber. The “leaving Ginny” thing was callous, but he also was a coward who did not want to risk running into the basilisk while seeking Ginny.

    Don’t know about movie/book differences, just addressing the book.

    ETA: Re-read your comment, realized you covered most of what I just wrote. Oops.

  249. 249.

    different-church-lady

    @Applejinx:

    But I’m delighted with how HAPPY she was whilst doing it.

    In the end, that was probably what undid Trump the most: a bully is only happy when the target is miserable. It’s a power game and he couldn’t gain the upper hand, and that just drove him up the wall.

  251. 251.

    Schlemazel

    @bystander: Unless, of course, we all have sex with Drumpf.

    Gee, thanks for that

    From my cell phone because my PC was just destroyed by uncontrollable projectile vomiting

  254. 254.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @SFAW:

    My point was that there were other spells to incapacitate them, were he interested in leaving them to die.

    The counterpoint to that is that he said he was “particularly gifted” with memory charms. (he couldn’t even deal with cornish pixies) maybe he did not trust himself with other spells? I’ll let you know when I get to that part tomorrow ;-)

  255. 255.

    Wapiti

    @Immanentize: Ah, you might be right. I wondered why he persisted in calling her Secretary Clinton. I wondered if she’d take a hit from the press for “not being respectful in return”.

  257. 257.

    Major Major Major Major

    Have we talked about how debates are supposedly only important for the first half hour or so? Personally I don’t think debates are (usually) spectacularly important at all, but that’s how the story goes.

  258. 258.

    Applejinx

    @rikyrah: “I still love him, you know. Don’t you love anything?”

    “I love AMERICA!”

    “…then why don’t you help pay for it, like the rest of us?”

    *BAM*

  259. 259.

    bluefoot

    @SFAW: I was thinking more Vernon Dursley: angry, picks on people he has power over, thinks he’s better than everyone else, in denial of anything that doesn’t fit his worldview, compulsively lies to defend the bubble he lives in, wants anyone not like him to either be locked up or dead.

  260. 260.

    catclub

    @Schlemazel: Trump having problems with cocaine, if people are talking about then you worry.
    Other people thought he was hiding his taxes to hide donations to nambla. Big Trump donations to nambla he wants to hide.

  261. 261.

    Jado

    @SFAW:

    You have a better chance of the Chicago CUBS winning the Super Bowl. They can’t go against their business model of the horserace to garner ratings and advertising dollars. Never happen.

  262. 262.

    MomSense

    @different-church-lady:

    One of the reasons I have thought she is the ideal candidate to have to face der Trump is that she knows exactly how to handle alpha males. IMHO she rattled him in her first answer when she turned to him and with a gracious smile welcomed him to the debate. With that elegant remark she informed him in the nicest possible way that it was her stage and her debate. If you look at his face in that moment, he really had no idea what to do. That was a dominance move demonstrated by a master. That is how a woman at the top of her game puts a man where she wants him while exuding warmth, and hospitality. It was a killer move executed by a pro.

  263. 263.

    Mobile

    @Kay: Wow. What a brilliant and beautiful insight. It seems so right, it puts Hillary in a whole new light for me. Thank you.

  264. 264.

    SFAW

    @Jado:

    You have a better chance of the Chicago CUBS winning the Super Bowl.

    Well, they are looking pretty tough this year. But, point taken.

  267. 267.

    ruemara

    @Bruce K: yes. Lockhart magically assaulted people who could attest that he was a liar. I can’t think of anything more malicious than that that doesn’t involve blood.

  268. 268.

    Hoodie

    At first I though Hillary missed some opportunities to put the knife in Trump but, after thinking about it, I thinks she’s acting out the corrida de toros. The key to beating Trump is not debating virtuosity, it’s stamina to dodge the torrent of bullshit he pours out and slowly weakening him in the process. Hillary has persistence in spades and is well suited to take him down.

    Last night, she opened several wounds that are going to continue to bleed. She established that Trump is probably not releasing his tax returns because he’s dodged paying federal income taxes. The set up for that was masterful. His near admission will generate tons of speculation, which will hurt him with suburbanites who live off a salary, particularly if the salary is relatively high, like mid level managers, lawyers, doctors, etc. They pay taxes out the ass. She revisited the shitty way he deals with people who trust him to live up to contractual requirements, undermining him with small businesspeople. She ripped off the scab of his bullshit reinvention of the history of birtherism, which will make the “I’m not racist” nice polite republican crowd uncomfortable and reinforce enthusiasm in minority communities. She gave a name to victims of his disgusting misogyny, which reinforces the gender gap.

    He’ll spend the rest of the week trying to put bandaids on the wounds she opened last night but, odds are, they’ll get reopened again in the next debate. Hillary’s choice of red was brilliant. She’s taunting the bull in preparation for the estocada.

  269. 269.

    rikyrah

    @JMG:

    The skill set needed to do that, which include knowing some stuff, would make them naturally hostile to a street hustler like Trump.

    Jay-Z is a street hustler gone legit.

    Trump is a spoiled rich boy that cheated every which way that he could.

    There is a difference.

    And, the GOP Crime Boss CEO’s know that.

  271. 271.

    rikyrah

    @MomSense:

    If you look at his face in that moment, he really had no idea what to do. That was a dominance move demonstrated by a master. That is how a woman at the top of her game puts a man where she wants him while exuding warmth, and hospitality. It was a killer move executed by a pro.

    Hillary wasn’t afraid of him. Not one little bit. I appreciated that.

  273. 273.

    Leah Appet

    @Greg Gabrielse: I know exactly what you mean, especially when Trump took over the notion of our poor infrastructure; Both Obama and Democrats in congress have been trying for through-out his second term to get Republicans to go along with including money in various budgets to start repairing our rotting infrastructure, which would have created good, well-paying jobs that can’t leave this country. But I was gratified by her willingness to put Trump in the context of the Republican party’s endless belief in trickle-down economics; she even mentioned that it was the Bush Jr. who cut the taxes of those at the top, while undermining every form of regulation, producing the great recession of 1008 that almost rivaled the Great Depression. I was so worried that she might be hesitant because she’s been focused on getting Republican votes. My worries were clearly misplaced, but I agree she could have done more, and I expect that she will in the next debate.

    Isn’t it interesting that both Republicans and the press talk about the large number of Americans who want “change,” and somehow Hillary isn’t that “change.” Gee, isn’t the first woman President of these United States of America in a hundred and fifty years a change election?

  274. 274.

    ...now I try to be amused

    @Kay:

    It’s funny to me that conservatives hate her so much because this a REALLY old idea- that there’s strength in humility. It’s very traditional.

    It’s an old idea now, but I suspect it was a revolutionary idea in Jesus’ time. The following 2000 years proved that it’s a hard one to live by.

  275. 275.

    catclub

    @Hoodie:

    His near admission will generate tons of speculation, which will hurt him with suburbanites who live off a salary, particularly if the salary is relatively high, like mid level managers, lawyers, doctors, etc.

    I would point out/ask of Trump: What in your tax plan would change the fact that you pay no taxes? Or are all those loopholes still in your plan?

  276. 276.

    catclub

    @Kay:

    It’s funny to me that conservatives hate her so much because this a REALLY old idea- that there’s strength in humility. It’s very traditional.

    Four statements that lead to wisdom:
    I was wrong.
    I’m sorry.
    I don’t know.
    I need help.

    (Louise Penny)

    Humility is the first virtue. Pride is the first sin.

  278. 278.

    ? Martin

    @Kay: I would argue that Clinton wants it to come up in the debate. I think she wants to have an opportunity to talk about being a Methodist, about forgiveness, loyalty, responsibility to your children and country, and so on – that she doesn’t run away for a spouse with ‘better boobs’ or who is supposedly ‘hotter’ – she persistently works through difficult situations as you would expect a President to do. She doesn’t want to go after that part of Trumps character as a first strike, but if he’s willing to kick that door open, I’m sure she is very confident she can win that fight hands down.

  279. 279.

    ? Martin

    And at some point I wonder if Clinton won’t pivot to a larger bully theme – probably in the last debate. That Trump’s worldview, that his idea of American exceptionalism, is the ability to put your boot on someone’s neck and force them to give you what you want. That’s his approach for our allies and members of NATO, that’s his trade plan, that’s his approach with US companies, and that’s his approach with women and minorities, and you can see that in how he treats his contractors, how he treats others. He has more lawyers and can get away with not paying workers. He has a bigger microphone and can trash you in the press more than you can defend yourself. He will have a bigger navy and air force and you will pay if you want our help. He will have a bigger economy and if you don’t give in to our terms we will wreck yours. He only plays one note – the bully – and the United States was always the country that stood up to bullies – to the British two centuries ago, to the Nazis, to dictators, to the Soviet Union. He wants us to be the biggest bully. He wants that to be our national character, so ask yourself where you will wind up in that system. Women will be paid less because what are they going to do about it? People with disabilities will be denied services and a full place in this society because how will they fight back? In Trump’s America moving the factory to China as punishment for workers going on strike will be routine. Trump’s America is one where you better know your place.

  280. 280.

    Miss Bianca

    @TK: I hate Disqus. And Livefyre. WTF is wrong with the way the comments work? Next you’re going to say that you want nested threads. Oy.

  283. 283.

    waysel

    @Dmbeaster: err
    er,ər/Submit
    verbformal
    be mistaken or incorrect; make a mistake. They used the word incorrectly. They erred in their use of the word.

  284. 284.

    JGabriel

    Kay:

    I was disappointed that Hillary did not connect the supposed lack of accomplishments these past 8 years to the stonewalling of the Republican Party. I think she missed a,great chance. But, I am willing to be wrong.

    Because all the crazy shit that Trump says is what Republicans believe. None of Trump’s primary opponents could point out that his proposals and rhetoric were bonkers without contradicting GOP/Fox News dogma and losing votes.

    Hillary, fortunately, isn’t burdened by that handicap.

  287. 287.

    JGabriel

    PaulWartenberg2016:

    Kasich (the only sane conservative candidate …)

    I wouldn’t exactly call Kasich sane. He was the sanest of the Republican presidential candidates in 2016, which is kind of like being the least delusional in a roomful of schizophrenics.

    Actually, on second thought, it’s exactly like being the least delusional in a roomful of schizophrenics.

  289. 289.

    sukabi

    @debbie: already being trotted out by KellyAnne Conway. I fully expect that over the next week I’ll wake up and think it’s 1997. The parade of derp will be mind boggling from the douchenozzels® on team drumpf…the test will be for the media, do they want to relive the 90’s and end up in drumpfs version of America, or will they have a bit of dignity and actually do a bit of actual journalism.

  291. 291.

    The Pale Scot

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    If we lose in Nov, it won’t be because we nominated the wrong person, it will be because this country has become insanely stupid. You can’t fix stupid.

    H. L. Mencken has taken up residence in my ear for the last 6 months

    On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.

    Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.

    Please God make it stop.

    H. L. Mencken Quotes

  296. 296.

    lollipopguild

    @OzarkHillbilly: I have a Brother-in-law who is Donald Trump JR. Jr. Even in a family the constant lying wears thin quickly. My wife does not hate her brother she just does not want to be around him. B-i-L has no chance to do the damage that TRump would do if elected.

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