Here is a fun thought. Whoever leaked Donald Trump’s 1996 taxes likely has more than just three pages from one year. If we learned anything from the Clinton emails*, we learned that a story in drips never, ever dies. It does not even need to have anything interesting in it. But Trump’s tax story is so, so interesting. What business genius loses a billion dollars in the middle of an economic expansion? America was printing money in the mid 90’s. After a revelation like this it sounds a lot more plausible that the guy is effectively broke and keeping up the lifestyle by piling on debt to Russian mobsters and a couple recklessly stupid soon to be ex-managers at Deutsche Bank.
Now it could be that Trump’s mole has just that one batch of papers. You and I have no way to know. But Trump has no way to know either. And I expect he or she has more for the simple reason that the 1996 return is such an obviously crucial year. The near-billion dollar loss apparently set Trump up to live income tax-free for up to two decades. From what I understand any later year’s return would make much more sense if you saw what happened in 1996. The leaked documents would be a very smart first step.
And christ on a cracker do the Trumplings not want to talk about this. Rich people laws confuse and disturb or ordinary voters. Imagine I put all my money on a bet that blows up in my face. It is not hard to explain what happens next: I lose all my money. In a month Ex-football players pull up in a truck and carry away my stuff. The rules are different for rich people. It is like you simply cannot lose as long as you can pay the right accountant. Everyone more or less knows that, but having it rubbed in your face like this is viscerally galling. Frank Luntz’s focus group was utterly appalled when Trump smugly let on that he doesn’t pay taxes. Someone in his camp persuaded him to walk it back literally the moment he finished shaking Lester Holt’s hand. They know it sucks and explaining won’t help.
When you have as much to hide as Trump does, not knowing whether another shoe is about to drop must be agony. I suppose he could release everything right now and at least kill the suspense. The problem is we only have a month left in the race. It would take longer than a month just to digest the things we find in there. Meanwhile some states have already started voting. There is really no choice but turtle up and hope that nothing else leaks.
(*) Bad acts? Not so much. If anyone is still holding their breath for proof of malfeasance, their loved ones should probably intervene.
Michael Bersin
It couldn’t have happened to a more deserving republican candidate.
Keith P.
Remember that story about Trump refusing to let himself be vetted by his staff prior to running? Good move.
dmsilev
I still think the biggest act of genius by whoever leaked these was to put Trump Tower as the return address. Even if, as is likely, it wasn’t mailed by anyone currently working for Trump, he’s still going to assume that it was an inside job by a current staffer or employee and is going to go all witch-hunt on his minions. If we’re really lucky, next week Hillary will goad him into having a Captain Queeg moment during the debate. Just ask him who ate the strawberries.
amk
amk
@srv: Idiots gonna be idiots.
gf120581
This leads more credence to Mark Cuban’s recent tweet that he expects Trump to be broke within a few years. Not only is he clearly up to his ass in debt, but his main strength was his brand and that’s been utterly poisoned now.
I can only imagine how the Children of the Corn are reacting right now, watching their futures go up in smoke because of Daddy’s insanity.
gf120581
@dmsilev: He’s already going all paranoid/crazy and threatening anyone who criticizes his debate performance. This is likely to send that into overdrive. And like the dictator he is, he may well do what crazy paranoid dictators do and engage in a purge.
amk
The coward of a bully pulls out of the next debate in 3, 2, 1 ….
Percysowner
Desperate for rebound, Trump suggests Hillary Clinton may have cheated on her husband I’m not surprised. I just wonder how far he may take this and will Ivanka actually care enough about maintaining her friendship with Chelsea to put the kibosh on this.
scav
@srv: So that was your car with the Mitnick/Ivana 2016 bumper sticker that drove by earlier today. Sorry I forgot to wave!
germy
@srv:
You’re right. I’m certain Trump’s first act as president will be to re-write the tax code so that he and people like him pay much, much more in taxes.
Srv
The penis mightier than the S-word!
dmsilev
@gf120581: There were some rumors circulating earlier this week that he and his kids were unhappy with his campaign manager, so maybe she’ll get the axe and he’ll hire Pepe the alt-right Frog as manager #4.
? Martin
I think there’s about zero chance that Clinton’s campaign didn’t have this information prior to the debate. And if it was leaked by the campaign, putting a Trump Tower return on it is pretty simple. Part of the building needed to be designated a public space (per the city) for the building to be constructed. I’m almost positive there’s a public mailbox there which will postmark from Trump Tower.
Feathers
Thoroughly enjoying the Melania theory, but she doesn’t seem to have enough on the ball to plan out something like this. Like knowing where to send it. Or which exact pages would be the most damaging.
I’d cheer on Tiffany, but I don’t think she’s allowed anywhere near Trump Tower.
Anoniminous
@srv:
pfffffffffttttttttthhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
JPL
@srv: I so hope that if that comes up during the VP debate and Pence uses that excuse. All Kaine would have to say is so you want to put the fox in the chicken coop.
Betty would be sad, also.
Viva BrisVegas
@srv:
I think you mean Trump’s accountants.
Unless you really believe that Trump is capable of reading and understanding the tax code.
Omnes Omnibus
@Percysowner: Ivanka’s friendship with Chelsea is toast already.
amk
Idiot srv’s girlfriend
Random caps proves she has a PhD.
MomSense
SNL is opening with the debate.
ETA Baldwin is a killer Trump.
Keith P.
@dmsilev: Not a bad strategy to get today’s Times article out of the headlines. Well, it’s a bad strategy, but as far as their options, it’s not the worst. But then, Trump really doesn’t have any good options, as the check is now due.
scav
@amk: You Got Information in MY Election! UNFAIR! UmMErkan!
El Caganer
@Percysowner: Yes, the ability to come up with the theme for a tabloid gossip column is a really vital skill for a would-be President.
randy khan
My money’s on Ivana, who after all should have copies of all of the tax returns.
More to the point, the drip-drip-drip theory makes sense to me. If this is a story for the next month, it will hurt him a lot.
SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch
@gf120581:
I’m ready for another series of “Downfall” parodies on YouTube, any old time now.
Jibeaux
My husband and I are were talking today, about how he is in charge of $300/year which is to pay students ten bucks for basically market research. And they had to change it because they’re not supposed to give international students money. And I have spent tedious tone tracking down pta volunteers to keep their finances on the up and up. It’s infuriating how others can cheat on this without consequences.
lamh36
the story in the NYT is that he “may not” have paid taxes in 18yrs…Trump can say yes he did, it he ONLY true way to prove it is to release his tax docs… but will he?
randy khan
@? Martin:
I’m going to guess that the Clinton campaign did not send the tax return to the Times. It’s too high risk if someone finds out they did it. I wouldn’t be surprised if the same person who sent the documents to the Times sent them to the campaign, though, maybe even with a note saying they’d been sent to the Times.
Wag
I posted this in Adam’s thread below, but it’s more in line with this topic
Howard Beale IV
@randy khan: Donct’cha mean Marla?
randy khan
@Howard Beale IV:
You’re right. I lost track of the wives.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I like this, not trump is running a Ponzi scheme, trump is a Ponzi scheme
RaflW
@srv: Weak.
Time to tuck yourself in for the night!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Thing Three: Trump’s former accountant has verified them.
? Martin
Good planning by the NYT to post it the day everyone’s 10 free articles resets. I wonder what they’ll be talking about on the Sunday shows tomorrow?
My theory is that Barron is behind this – not wanting to ghetto out at the White House. After all, he is so good with these computers, it’s unbelievable.
David Fud
@srv: You should at least read the article…
Playing Donald as some sort of tax wizard is not going to play out well when any details come up in debates. It is that simple. Believe me.
rk
@Percysowner:
If Hillary has had affairs, that is just going to seal my support for her. Talk about stamina! She works like a dog and has time to play . Wow!
dmsilev
@Thing Three: His (now retired) tax accountant confirmed that they were authentic.
RaflW
@shomi: Those many stories throughout the years didn’t have quite the impact of seeing one single, solitary line on a tax return. A number so large it had to be manually typed in because no tax preparation software at the time imagined anyone claiming a loss greater that $9,999,999.99!
Folks seem genuinely agog that Trump could lose almost $1Bn in a single year. It’ll be news for a while, even if it was ‘widely reported’ (yawn) before.
Helen
Carried over from the last thread cuz I’m always late.
My first job in NY after college (1986) was for a real estate company that converted rental buildings into co-ops. That was when I learned how unbelievably horrific that industry is. None of them paid any taxes (mostly because of the deduction for depreciation) but the horrific part was that part of my job was to sit outside of rental buildings that my boss was thinking of buying and count the number of old people entering. Why? Cuz if there were lots of old people then the profit would be forthcoming cuz they would die soon. I left after 9 months.
SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch
@Viva BrisVegas:
I don’t think he reads and understands much of anything. In that deposition about the Old Post Office restaurant, he said at one point that he didn’t read any of the papers, he hardly discussed the lawsuit with either his lawyers or corporate advisors (e.g., the kids), and just signed all the papers without reviewing them. This seems to be the way he has done business all his life. His name is on the documents, so he gets the benefit of any profits, but if there are problems, well, he never really read the fine print or talked about it, so there is plausible deniability.
He does seem to love pictures of himself on magazine covers and newspaper front pages, and it doesn’t matter whether they accompany flattering articles about him or are hideous photos accompanying devastating stories. As long as they are pictures of him. So maybe his staff and legal team should come up with a way to make all contracts a series of head shots of Donald with one-sentence text balloons coming out of his mouth. Maybe he could read and understand those.
SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch
@MomSense:
Guess I’m going to have to watch it tomorrow once the opening sketch goes up on media.
amk
@Thing Three: Well, no one is stopping him from releasing his actual returns to disprove it, is there?
Instead, he is out there claiming hillary is an adulterer.
The thug is going mad right in front of our own eyes.
Lizzy L
@Thing Three: Srsly? Did you read the NYT story? They talked to the accountant who prepared the return, FFS, and he confirmed that the Times indeed had the actual return pages and that yup, that was his actual signature.
Evidently Trump is attempting to divert attention from the story by ranting that Hillary Clinton was unfaithful to Bill Clinton.
? Martin
I think we must be approaching the point where Trump in a debate declares that he never ran for president and would want that shitty job even if it was offered to him.
Uncle Cosmo
@srv: Fuck off & die, shitstain.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
from April, 2012
SWMBO
@dmsilev: Is the retired accountant more inclined to say something because Combover Caligula didn’t pay him?
Bill E Pilgrim
Finding out that Donald Trump hasn’t paid taxes in 20 years: Worth its weight in gold.
Finding out that Donald Trump hasn’t paid taxes in 20 years because he’s such a huge loser: Priceless.
catclub
@lamh36: Some one should ask him if every past year is still under audit.
Should also ask for what specific changes he would make to the tax code so that people like him pay more in taxes, instead of zero.
amk
now wapo’s turn to whack the ratfucker
SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Projection projection projection.
scav
@Bill E Pilgrim: It really is the evidence of loss, that nice little looong number that’s really going to bait the rake, isn’t it?
amk
rikyrah
@gf120581:
You cracked me up again with children of the corn ????
rikyrah
@MomSense:
Baldwin was hilarious as Ferret Head????
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Feb 2012. I think somebody posted this in an earlier thread, but… there’s even a chart!
Does Trump know all his tweets are still out there?
sdhays
@amk: Haven’t you heard? He’s undergoing audit, and releasing one’s tax returns while under audit would literally violate the laws of physics and destroy the universe. Unless Hillary releases her 30 gazillion deleted spam emails proving that she’s actually the leader of the lizard people plotting to take over our precious bodily fluids by way of Benghazi, then it might be possible for him to release his tax returns without ending all life on Erth. Ask anybody! Well… ask Sean Hannity!
Bill E Pilgrim
@scav: To the questions about “Is he not releasing his tax returns because it will show he doesn’t make much money, or because it will show that he doesn’t pay any taxes?” the best answer was “Can’t it be both?”
Yes, yes it can.
We’re inching closer to the last panel here coming true.
redshirt
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: MiniTruth will take care of it.
Omnes Omnibus
@shomi: You really are an asshole. Don’t do that.
catclub
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: The campaign is very careful about the way it says Trump has paid taxes: State taxes, real estate taxes, employee taxes (?!), … federal income taxes.
gf120581
@rikyrah: It’s either that or do a Village of the Damned joke and I’m a bigger Stephen King fan anyway.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: No, he doesn’t. Like many idiots on the Internet, he doesn’t know that what you post is out there forever.
amk
@shomi: The current media exposure is more about destroying the myth that he is a yooogely, bigly, successful bidness man than about his fucking (non)-taxes
Keith P.
@MomSense: Trump-Baldwin – “And when she stops talking, her mouth looks like a tiny, little butthole.” Awesome.
jl
@dmsilev: Trump will explain his ‘strict geometrical logic’ about it in the next debate? That will be fun.
? Martin
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I think it’s fair to say at this point that Trump does not believe the rules apply to him. It’s okay for him to not pay taxes, probably because he’s a white male with a nicer piece of ass then the rest of us:
He honestly believes in his entitlement. He’s infuriated that the rest of the world doesn’t grant him his entitlement.
SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch
@sdhays:
Hadn’t quite thought of it that way before, but of course! The deleted emails are all begs from OFA in 2011 and 2012 asking for just another $19 contribution before the reporting period ends at midnight!
Felonius Monk
@shomi: Your presence is requested somewhere else. Goodnight.
jl
@rk:
” Desperate for rebound, Trump suggests Hillary Clinton may have cheated on her husband I’m not surprised. ”
Crap like coming from a guy like Trump is going to impress anyone? Other than the few sad Xtianist marks who have convinced themselves Trump is now a repentant man of God?
Omnes Omnibus
@SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch: They were released years ago.
GregB
Donald Trump is Falling Down.
JR in WV
Just a couple of weeks ago I mailed a couple of letters.
One to the IRS, and one to the state tax receipts dept. They had big fuqing checks for our quarterly estimated tax payments.
Years ago I was at my Dad’s next door neighbor’s for New Years Eve party. He was a cardio-thoracic surgeon, and was a little bit drunk. Which was OK, he wasn’t driving anywhere, and neither was I.
He was pissing and moaning about how he had to borrow $27,000 to make his final estimated tax payment for the year. !!!
Out of 4 payments, presumably all about the same. And he didn’t have cash on hand to make that payment, which he knew about for at least several months.
I will confess that he had a wife and 3 daughters, and could not say no to any one of them, so expenses were high.
But Trump, Fuck You for not needing to pay as much IRS taxes as me, a retired state employee!!! FUQ You!!!!! Very much~!
g’night all~
Mnemosyne
Reporting from the field, I managed to register three (3) people in Nevada today, and the steaks at the Circus Circus steakhouse are as delicious as Adam promised. Overall, a good day’s work.
Lizzy L
Also, would someone tell Rudy Guiliani to STFU and go away forever? He’s REALLY worn out his welcome.
amk
lil jeb? now.
SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch
@Thing Three:
Not a problem!
jl
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
” Does Trump know all his tweets are still out there? ”
Looks like not. He doesn’t seem to understand old audios and videos are out there either. His lies during the debate on his positions on global warming, 2003 Iraq invasion, Libyan policy and Iraq withdrawal are confirmed by stuff that has been repeatedly circulated on the internet. He’s a goof who thinks an email ‘goes away’ completely and forever if you erase it. By now, that is on the level of thinking that the TV works because there are little people inside it putting on a show.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
gf120581
Just for fun, anyone want to guess how the Sunday morning Beltway babbling sessions are going to go tomorrow? I can’t wait to see how the Trump surrogates are going to try and spin this one.
Also, every down-ballot Republican in a competitive race must be in sheer panic tonight.
jl
@SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch: Maybe the Mifnick guy was born in some exotic non-American place like… Hawaii!?
SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch
@jl:
Heh. I had a great-aunt who always dressed up and put on lipstick before she turned on the television (early 1950s). She was convinced that if she could see them, they could see her.
Bill E Pilgrim
@gf120581: Cheeto Spice has already tried to release countermeasures by accusing Hillary of having affairs but I don’t think any decoy is going to work against this one, taxes probably will be the hot topic tomorrow.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@? Martin: He’s really good with the cyber.
jl
Speaking of not knowing that old tweets are out there, Josh Marshall dug up a tweet of Trump from, looks like July this year, bragging about how great he did in Atlantic City
https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/782434049252098048
Edit: So, I guess Trump has to explain how he either a liar or a tax cheat?
Another Scott
@randy khan: Trumps returns supposedly run thousands of pages. I doubt that he or his wife/wives keep copies around the house.
PBS from 3 days ago:
I don’t see New Jersey mentioned there, which strikes me as curious (Atlantic City).
It would be funny if it was from someone at Deutsche Bank that released the stuff to the Times. ;-)
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
Helen
Looks like Marla is the leak. See nycsouthpaw’s twitter for evidence.
sdhays
@? Martin: You almost have to marvel (while running for the toilet before the projectile vomit comes out) at the level of depravity it takes to take what’s supposed to be a personal attack on Bill Clinton and have it come out pretty much 95% a misogynist attack on Monica Lewinski. Not that I’m surprised, but his ability to make an already weak line of attack on Hillary Clinton even less effective is breathtaking (and nauseating as well, but we need to be prepared for that at least until November 9th).
And way to stay on message, Donald. If Bill Clinton was such a fantastic President except for banging a fatty nobody, doesn’t that make the case that the other Clinton, who has no history of similar behavior (it seems she only sleeps with a former President, after all), will likely be a great President?
It’s hard to believe that this shitgibbon is literally this stupid. The nastiness I believe, but the stupidity still sometimes has a chance to mildly surprise me. I think it’s the media which keeps trying to put him back on the bike that keeps faking me out.
catclub
@SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch: Does she know about the hideous Bugblatter beast of Traal?
zach
Donald Trump at the debate:
Dow Jones average when the market opened in 1995: 3834.44
Dow Jones average when the market closed at the end of 1995: 5117.12 (+33%)
Trump’s gain on the year: negative 1 billion dollars
It’s about time…
Lizzy L
@jl: It’s not either/or, it’s both/and! Also, thanks for the image of the little people in the TV. It broke me up — laughing — and today was a crappy day, so getting to laugh out loud was wonderful.
I’m guessing Marla is the leaker. She’s the only one who could do it and not get into legal trouble.
I’ll say goodnight now. Tomorrow’s news is going to be really interesting.
Mary G
@Mnemosyne: Great job!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Helen: interesting
BR
Folks, let’s hammer this home — now that Trump is down, let’s volunteer and make sure he’s out. Sign up at the link — takes 30 seconds to find an event and RSVP.
catclub
@JR in WV: The thing that struck me is how people with lots of income – like your surgeon – can still be short and have almost zero in a bank account.
Trump is a different case.
Trump is getting the NYT shadows and appearances treatment that Hillary got on this. Although they have made an effort to show the documents are authentic, they basically admit hey received them anonymously and they could be fake, but they are publishing them anyway. If they had done this with Clinton Foundation documents, we would be screaming bloody murder. Welcome to the NYT election reporting roller-coaster.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@jl:
I’m sure that HRC could disabuse him of that notion.
BR
@catclub:
Except Trump’s accountant went on the record and said it was real, and even explained the weird detail about the tax software. So unless he’s in on the story, this is real and they checked.
jl
@?BillinGlendaleCA Huh wah? You trying out for the new in-house troll? That’s an OK start, I’ll give you a 5 out of 10 on that one.
Major Major Major Major
@Bill E Pilgrim: really? Jesus.
jl
I guess this is one of those things that everyone kind of knew but is a big deal because now we got a gotcha?
I admit I am puzzled by the stuff that captures the media and public attention this cycle. Hasn’t been this dumb since 2000, but that was the last time a GOPer whose main accomplishment in life was BSing ran for president, so I guess not a coincidence.
I guess the tax dox will be the story for a week. Then maybe during the next debate, HRC will slip in a dig about Trump was mean to Busey, and Trump will go apeshit over that, and ‘The Busey’ will be the big issue going into election day?
Bill E Pilgrim
@Major Major Major Major:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/02/us/politics/trump-rally-bill-hillary-clinton.html
catclub
@BR: Yeah, you have a point with that.
Bill E Pilgrim
@Major Major Major Major: Yep
zach
Has anyone asked Trump: “You say you’ve been audited every year forever. In 2012, Romney said that he’d been audited, and that the IRS had found him to be in compliance with tax law. What were the results of your past audits?”
sigaba
@jl: A big part of the story is just how ridiculous Trump has been about not releasing his returns, he could have ripped off the bandaid over a year ago but now we’re 5 weeks out and his tax returns have taken on an almost mythic significance.
He’s been hiding them, and as far as the press is concerned that’s proof he believes he’s done something wrong. He’s usually ridiculously indiscreet and candid but he was always really cagey about this one thing. That’s why it’s news, he MADE it news.
jl
@Major Major Major Major: Trump ran a trial balloon on upcoming ugly attacks he’ll make on HRC affairs. I don’t think any indication anyone gives a shit whether she did an affair or not, so maybe he’ll move on to other stuff. I read they are going after some perfectly legal and previously well known real estate thing with some relative of Bill’s in New Mexico. Cripes, maybe the deep well of raw material for BS Clinton fake scandals, crimes and horrors has finally run dry. All the skeletons in the closets have been stolen piece by piece and made into holy relics for the wingnuts to worship, and there isn’t even anything left to hype? That would be… like… a miracle.
AnotherBruce
@srv: Everybody knows Ivana ran the casino.
Who made the decision for Ivana to run the casino? This is proof that Trump will likely be a figurehead and let Pence run the White House. Man you are really flailing.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@jl: But Al Gore’s fat, so it doesn’t matter.
AnotherBruce
What’s with the moderation?
Villago Delenda Est
Tom, all that is true.
But the thing is, a lot of people are going to ask, even if you can do something, should you do it?
Drumpf is a parasite. His children are parasaites. They’re living large on the tax dollars of others.
Bill E Pilgrim
Top rated comment in the NYT article:
Yep. Probably buys T Bone steaks, too.
jl
@AnotherBruce: Throughout Cole’s post wiingnut period, Balloon Juice has always been a moderate blog. Family friendly, too.
Edit: But despite many promises, NOT full service. There… I said it. I said it.
Villago Delenda Est
@AnotherBruce: Probably FYWP being FYWP. Or you somehow magically put in a banned word.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@jl:
WTF?
Villago Delenda Est
@zach: He has ideas about money. Ideas on how to steal it from mothers trying to feed their children.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@efgoldman: jl is an economist and doesn’t understand the cyber.
scav
@Bill E Pilgrim: Buys? Nah, His charity buys and then raffles off his own steaks, accepts bids on them with OPM from his PAC, takes the tax-writeoff and then they somehow end up cooked and served to him instead of the Army vets the charity advertised.
Bill E Pilgrim
@jl: You knew he lost a billion dollars on Atlantic City casinos?
jl
@efgoldman: @?BillinGlendaleCA:
I am a BJ commenter and therefore I know exactly what subtle insinuendos Billin had in mind.
Bill E Pilgrim
@scav: Okay look I know he’s a monster but even I don’t think he had Army vets cooked and served to him. Oh wait okay I see.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@jl:
Should I put that on my resume?
ETA:
It’s Bill, (Bill in Glendale CA).
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@sdhays: In 2008 Trump said Hillary would make a “great president”.
Cheers,
Scott.
scav
@Bill E Pilgrim: Come to think of it, the ambiguity of a good run-on sentence only adds to the authenticity and plausibility.
addicted
@scav: The fact that the number was so large that the software couldn’t handle it, and the accountant had to manually add the numbers with a typewriter is a very satisfying little bit about this.
joel hanes
When big companies see that they cannot avoid a public loss, they go big.
Every possible sick division is reorganized into the LOB that will take the hit.
The accountants are instructed to move every possible expense, loss, and discrepancy into the bad organization in the bad quarter. Go bad, go big, and take every possible negative down in one story.
I would imagine that if one had ten or fifteen incorporations, that a gaudy tasteless badly-managed and therefore struggling Atlantic City casino might seem a good place to bury a great many bodies.
Brachiator
Bullshit.
As I noted in another thread, I’m betting that many Trump supporters will respect Trump all the more for being able to work the tax system to his advantage. Some of them will even see this as more evidence that a man like Trump, who knows how to work the system for his benefit, will also know how to make it work for them.
The average guy or gal does not see it as noble to put on a hair shirt and get squeezed by the taxman. And while they may not want to cheat on their taxes (or are afraid to do so), they want to pay as little as possible. And yeah, this is short sighted, but people want to see someone else pay their “fair share” more than they want to pay a “fair share” themselves.
Also, you would have to see more of Trump’s tax returns for 1995 and other years to have any idea of his financial situation and how sophisticated his returns might be. It is plausible, though, right now to say that he is not worth as many billions as he claims.
I think I recall seeing that Romney used more trusts to shelter income, which might make him smarter than Trump.
jl
When I read stories on Trump’s birtherism a week or two ago, and kept seeing ‘bullshitterism’ instead of ‘birtherism’, I knew was time for me to take a few days break from following the campaign. But I did not do that. And now things are spiraling down into the abyss. I’be become obsessed with the idea of making Trump’s reality show intervention with Gary Busey a major campaign issue. I really want to see Dickerson, Mitchell, Wolfe and Todd all look real serous and ask questions about it and stuff.
I have no clue what the Trump/Busey thing was all about, except I saw a weird short clip and people said it was weird.
I better take a break from following the campaign for a few days.
joel hanes
Help help
moderation done got my comment
Helen
We’re all gonna stay up for the 3:20 am tweets, right? Cuz they are gonna be EPIC!!! It’s Saturday. Ivanka has turned off her phone. She can’t stop him.
Bill E Pilgrim
“Dewey, Cheeto, and Howe” listed as the name of the firm that did the tax preparation was kind of a giveaway.
Brachiator
@addicted:
No, it just suggests that the accountant used shitty software.
jl
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
” It’s Bill, (Bill in Glendale CA). ”
I was trying to bestow you with a commenter honorific based on your nym. No good deed, or even an attempt at one, goes unpunished around here.
SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch
@jl:
Get a good rest, because you’re going to need every ounce of energy at your command by mid-October.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@jl:
The President did say those types of decisions* would keep him up at night.
*We all know what decision the President was making when he said that.
Mike J
@Brachiator: 1) You are right. b) Programs that properly print arbitrarily large numbers to existing forms are probably much rarer than you would guess.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@jl:
I believe that’s a Balloon Juice tradition.
Aleta
Watching the video of the rally in PA. Even as Trump’s organs are falling out, the fact remains that (maybe what?) 10-15,% of US voters have joined an angry cult led by a guy advocating violence; and rejection and failure compel him to destroy and take revenge.
redshirt
We’re losing troops in this war!
FSM bless us all.
AnotherBruce
@Villago Delenda Est: @jl: Fuck, I didn’t know it was family friendly!
Whoops.
RaflW
@BR: It’s real, they checked. The Trump campaign’s responses don’t challenge the authenticity, they just throw the usual bluster and non-denials.
jl
One thing I wonder about is, after he is elected, will Trump be called Mr President, or will that be too low class, and we will all have to refer to him as Mr. Trump?
Edit: but I will refuse to adopt ‘trump hair’ I won’t obey the presidential decree.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@AnotherBruce: You’re on notice.
redshirt
@jl: Hair Trump!
Helen
@SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch: love love love the extension to your nym.
scav
@Mike J: and C) even if true, it only adds to the impression of what a cheap-ass operation the best of all businessman operates. The PC peanut was doing it’s level best man! Hire only the best, bigly.
jl
@redshirt: ‘Hair Trump’? I never heard of that Trump spinoff. I bet that Trump business went broke real quick. Probably a loss leader to get more people chugging Trump Vodka.
AnotherBruce
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Oh god, another note for my permanent record.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@jl: President Mr. Trump.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@AnotherBruce: Your elementary school teachers warned you about this.
CaseyL
I’m still trying to get my head around the fact that Trump lost a billion dollars while running a c a sino while the economy was booming. How incompetent do you have to be to pull that off?
CaseyL
This comment went to Moderation Hell because I used one of the forbidden words, so here’s another go at it with the forbidden word disguised:
I’m still trying to get my head around the fact that Trump lost a billion dollars running a gambling mecca while the economy was booming. How incompetent do you have to be to pull that off?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Watching Alec Baldwin’s Trump, something I think Trump is going to do frame by frame shouting his critiques at Uday and Qusay
The Lodger
@Bill E Pilgrim: At least he could get the steaks wholesale.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Trump on Baldwin.
;-)
Cheers,
Scott.
AnotherBruce
@CaseyL: This, a casino is about the closest thing there is to printing money. This guy is a colossal failure.
Aleta
Trump asks the audience: “How many people have acid washed or bleached a tweet?” (confused little yeehaw)
“After this, you’re going to be so excited you won’t want to go to a movie. You know why? Because they.don’t.make.movies.like they used to, is that right?” (confused slight cheer)
?BillinGlendaleCA
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: Wait, you forgot who you were?
redshirt
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Your Excellence.
Aleta
@jl: I like Alt-Reich.
Prescott Cactus
@CaseyL: @CaseyL:
“It don’t come easy, you know it don’t come easy” R. Starr
Another Scott
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Different PC. Let’s see….
Cheers,
Scott.
Dmbeaster
I think it very likely there are more pages to be leaked. I would bet that whoever leaked it selected the partial 1996 return because of its dramatic impact (probably the peak NOL) while leaving the full impact uncertain. That is, someone seems to have picked the most dramatic three pages out of thousands. I doubt that any other three pages could create as much stink, and no way someone was lucky enough to have just those pages.
redshirt
@jl: Trump Timeshares will be making a YUUGE comeback soon. You can have a FREE 3 day vacation in Florida by simply listening to these FOOL PROOF steps to make millions!
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Another Scott: Kind of figured that.
Mnemosyne
Since I need to collapse into bed now after having been up since FOUR O’FUCKING CLOCK A M, I can’t wait for an open thread to reassure Omnes and any other clown phobics that there are no, I repeat, NO visible clowns in my room at Circus Circus, either in the room itself, visible from the window, or under the bed.
I checked.
And with that, to all a good night.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne: They come out when you turn out the lights.
Another Scott
@Mnemosyne: You done good. Sleep well!
Cheers,
Scott.
redshirt
@Mnemosyne: Invisible clowns are the scariest.
Villago Delenda Est
@AnotherBruce: The four letter Anglo-Saxon vulgarity for sexual intercourse (among other things) is NOT one of the “bad words” FYWP gets all moderated about.
Interestingly enough, some of the various words used by a longstanding troll for a nym or a part of a nym are. Then there are things that have to do with, um, gaming and um, boner pills. Because of spam.
Villago Delenda Est
@Prescott Cactus: You got to pay your dues if you wanna sing the blues and you know it don’t come easy.
Peej01
@srv: this has nothing to do with the IRS…if you had read the article closely, it said that the returns that the NYT got were state returns from NY, NJ, and Conn.
Adam
@CaseyL:
Apparently Fredo Corleone was resurrected as Donald Trump.
The Lodger
@joel hanes: This is the Jersey Shore. They do one-way boat rides, not burials. Are we gonna have to make you watch The Sopranos again?
Villago Delenda Est
@Peej01: srv is a very dumbass troll.
TriassicSands
All campaigns have good weeks and bad weeks, but I’ve never seen a campaign in which the candidate (in this case Trump) has had so many certifiably bad weeks and remained competitive. It is truly amazing and speaks to the density and depravity of his supporters.
Trump has said he could shoot someone and still be competitive. Now, I believe him. Depending on his victim, his numbers would go up, not down or remain the same.
Prescott Cactus
@Mnemosyne:
the air vents…
Sweet dreams. You are likely an appetizer in a clown buffet. . .
Hamilton will save you ! ! ! !
redshirt
@Prescott Cactus: You know those hotel rooms that have an internal door to the next room over?
Yeah, that room is filled with clowns.
cmorenc
@gf120581:
Utterly predictable – immediate deflection to some alleged Hillary scandal.
Aleta
@Thing Three: Well if that’s true he’s gonna get in trouble again. This is getting to be worse than the year he hit a teacher and got sent to military school.
cmorenc
@TriassicSands:
They hate the Kenyan ni-clang, the Clintons, and the thought of leaving liberals in control of any branches of the federal government so much that they’ll loyally stick with Trump because he’s their only viable option at this point, so long as they still think he has any shot at winning. If and when it does become unavoidably obvious his chances of winning are an irretrievably lost, expect to see a not-insubstantial portion at least claim that they’re jumping ship to Gary Johnson or else foregoing voting in the Presidential election to concentrate on supporting GOP candidates in down-ballot races. Your asshole crazy uncles will stay with Trump unto the very end, however.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Aleta: Well, that turned out all for the good; since he learned more in that military school that all the generals.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym
Because this is Trump, I’m checking my usual pedantic self at the door, and saying any and all attacks that one can come up with on this subject are perfectly legitimate. If he wants to refute them, release his returns.
However, that pedantic side of my can’t help but say what it would if this were someone else, namely that how I view someone taking a billion dollar loss in one year and using it to write off future income. It really depends upon exactly what those losses consist of. It’s possible that that was real wealth that was lost, in which case I don’t have a problem with using them to offset future income; I’ll be doing the same thing myself on this year’s taxes, because I had a lot of expenses involved in publishing Becoming Phoebe but, since it hadn’t been released yet, no income to use them against. I reported a loss on the business, and will be writing off income from the business with those losses, probably for years.
On the other hand, it’s possible, especially in real estate, to generate paper losses that don’t really represent a loss of wealth. To the extent that Trump’s billion dollar loss consists of these, it’s sleazy. Perfectly legal, but sleazy. In which case, he deserves all of the opprobrium he gets. And, since this Donald Fucking Trump, I think this possibility is pretty likely, but we do not (hopefully, it’s just “yet) have evidence that this is the case.
Mart
Buddy #1 lost about $10M with the housing boom/bust of 2003 – 2008, with the contracts under his and wife’s name. (Although these are “buddy’s” – I am not in the same financial ring.) Another buddy lost about $150M for his banks under an LLC. Buddy #1 is living in a van down by the river. Buddy #2 is in a downtown luxery penthouse. Buddy #1 accountants and “you know nothing about business” me begged him to incorporate, but it was a family pride thing…
Prescott Cactus
@redshirt:
and BBQ + sweet and sour sauce. Viking style: no silverware. . .
patrick II
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym:
It’s not just that he paid no taxes — he thinks its “smart” and smugly thinks only in terms of himself, and not the effect of what would happen to the country if many others (suckers!) did the same thing.
It’s not just that he paid no taxes — he lost nearly a billion dollars, in spite of cheating many of his contractors, cheating those people who bought stock in his company, and at a time in the middle 90’s when the economy was doing very well and any billionaire with a brain would be earning money.
Brachiator
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym:
The 900 plus million loss appears to be an NOL (net operating loss). The rental losses are $15 million.
The huuuge scale of the losses chip away at Trump’s reputation as a successful businessman, but there may not be much here that would not be available to a small business owner who had a bad year.
Obviously, we would have a better picture of his situation if we had his federal returns and information for more years.
Hob
@? Martin:
When was the last time you looked at a piece of mail? Postmarks do not identify a building. They have the name of the city and the date.
A return address isn’t a postmark. It’s just an address written on the envelope which can say anything you want, no matter where you actually mailed the letter.
sukabi
@srv: if you think he’d actually change it to close the loopholes he’s benefited from, you don’t know drumpf.
Living tax free for 20+ years, and then start paying like everyone else? Not bloody likely, as he could have foregone the loopholes and paid his fair share all along.
sukabi
@gf120581: they’d better hope that any money they have is protected against their daddy grabbing it back.
Vhh
@Another Scott: Awhile back there was a NYT article about how one of Trump’s huge contested NJ tax bills was suddenly massive discounted in a settlement suspiciously close to the election of Chrisyie as NJ governor. U can google it.
Bobby Thomson
@amk: and she’s a machine! Bonus!
Blue Galangal
@Brachiator: or that it was, you know, 1995. Remember Y2K?
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
Given that he hasn’t paid a dime towards their salaries in two decades, one wonders if his Secret Service detail may be more inclined to use HIM as a human shield rather than the other way around. Maybe they should just walk off the job and let him hire his own goons for security.
Uncle Cosmo
@gf120581: Innit more like “Children of the Con“?
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Note to ZEGS: There are the makers and the takers. And then there are the fakers. One of whom is your candidate for POTUS.
Note to GOP: In the immortal words of one Bugs Bunny: You buttered your bread, now lie in it.
Uncle Cosmo
@srv: Fuck off & die. It’s your only chance to leave the world a better place, you worthless shitstain.
Blueskies
@shomi: Gee, shomi, I missed the part where he said he hasn’t paid taxes for 20 years because he managed to lose a Billion Dollars during one of the hottest economies in the history of the world.
I think your smug over-estimation of your IQ coupled with a shocking lack of attention to detail is starting to show something about you, something that I’d wager your loved ones have warned you about many times before. To wit: You don’t have to be an asshole ALL of the time.
Another Scott
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym: The way I think about things like this is:
1) There are losses and there are “losses”. What are Trumps?
2) How long should someone be able to carry “losses” forward?
3) As others have noted, he’s claimed to be hugely successful. Manipulating the tax code to not owe taxes for decades on end isn’t what normal people think of as being “yoogely successful”. The optics is horrible.
4) He’s attacked Obama and other democrats on their taxes while paying little or none himself. For years he’s claimed deductions in NYC for people earning < $500k/yr. He lying about something – either he's lying to the NYC tax authorities, or he isn't making as much income as he claims, or both. He shouldn't get a pass on playing both sides. He's not Schrodinger's Cat (not the respected commenter here ;-).
I have no sympathy at all for the attention and mocking and so forth that this is bringing him. I hope it continues and gets more intense.
Cheers,
Scott.
rachel
@Aleta: We don’t need a remake of A Face in the Crowd; we have Don the Con’s campaign.
philadelphialawyer
@catclub: I wouldn’t be “screaming bloody murder” over the Times publishing leaked documents damaging to Hillary if it admitted that it obtained them anonymously and that they could be fake.
Sorry, but no. No false equivalence. Trump has gotten a free pass until now. Hillary has gotten the Third Degree. That’s why we have been screaming bloody murder. The Times had nothing, as in Jack Shit, on Hillary, but smeared her, over and over again, regardless.