Thanks to hovercraft for pointing to this question, I decided to listen to the full video.
First the question:
And the full event:
I’m tired of talking about Trump. Let’s celebrate our candidate for a bit. Open thread.
Reader Interactions
124Comments
Comments are closed.
Patricia Kayden
Let’s celebrate the bounce Secretary Clinton got from her terrific debate performance!! Go Hillary!!
Unfortunately, she’s still behind Trump in Ohio.
piratedan
I like her… I think if we can flip the senate and turn over some house seats for her, she’ll be able to get some shit done.
We need to re-invest in America, repair shit, build shit and take care of people and I have a LOT more faith that she’ll get that done.
themann1086
I literally work in Haverford. Had no idea she was in town!
Keith P.
And this also doubles as practice. A bit friendly, as it’s a campaign stop, but it’s good for her to work at interacting in QAs with voters. Trump has done a few town halls, but they’re all Hannitized for His Protection™. Going to be interesting to see which candidate can relate to the voters on a personal level.
Mnemosyne
I spent a whole weekend with people who are so excited for Hillary’s campaign, they were willing to spend their own money to travel and help out. And there were even more who traveled there just for the day.
And we had representatives of all races, all ethnicities, all genders, all ages. The youngest was about 12, and she was there with her dad and grandmother. The oldest were probably in their 60s, because it’s pretty grueling work.
And you know what? We had a pretty darn good reception! I got a lot of smiles from people who said they were already registered, and I only got kicked off one property. I even had a grocery store security guard say, “Go get ’em, tiger!”
I feel pretty darn good about Nevada. I think we can win it. Let’s go.
bystander
I wish somebody would also say that repeating his words without registering at least a “really?” is normalizing his speech. Can anyone envision Eisenhower publicly conjecturing on Stevenson’s domestic life? Let alone flexing his hands while admiring them and telling the world it means Ike has a mighty endowment?
I’m also tired of the bothsiderists suggesting that Clinton is to blame for repeating what he says and asking “really?”
ETA I hope this drives up the bitter and angry components of my posts.
Villago Delenda Est
@bystander: The bothsiderists (aka acolytes of Broder) need to be rounded up, placed on a rocket ship, and fired into the sun.
jonas
And Kelly Ayotte would have us believe that she watches something like this and thinks “yeah, no way, neither of those candidates is a good role model for kids.” It’s like saying “Well, I compared the steaming pile of dog shit here to this slice of pizza over here and decided that they were both equally bad.”
BR
@themann1086:
Check out the campaign’s events here and sign up for something!
Arclite
I really don’t get where all the hate for Clinton comes from. Is it really all manufactured right wing bullshit? I’ve never had an unfavorable view of her, nor have I thought she’s really done much out of the norm.
Jim Parish
But the pizza has anchovies! Yuk!
dmsilev
And, as a counterpoint of sorts, Trump Spent ’93 White House Correspondents Dinner Ogling Guests”
He really is the Grand Unified Theory of Awful.
Iowa Old Lady
@Arclite: That’s my feeling too. We must not be reading the right websites.
ET
@Arclite: I do think this is manufactured hate, but it is a hate that is on autopilot. The right got used to hating Bill and Hill and they just can’t let it go. It is part of their genetic code and not based in any reality.
I do think that part of this has nothing to do about politics and everything to do with the Republican psyche – or at least what they approve of and what they don’t approve of. They say they approve of “traditional values” and roles for men and roles for women – violating them gets you on a List. Republicans have always had an uneasy relationship to women particularly those with brains that want to use them and use them in places that had been solely the realm of men. It didn’t seem natural. As for Bill, his style and foibles would have offended the holy than thou types even if they were more about pointing out others foibles as away to district people from looking too closely at their own. Many people hate very vociferously those very things they are guilty of.
Mnemosyne
@Arclite:
Remember how in 2008 all of the Black Democrats were telling us that Obama’s election was going to bring forth a tidal wave of racist shit, and a lot of us white Democrats scoffed until we got hit in the face with it?
That’s what sexism and misogyny is with Clinton. There are a LOT of people who still subconsciously feel that women should not be leaders, and that gets directed at Clinton. And, sadly, it’s only going to get worse.
I think that’s one of the many reasons that Michelle Obama is all in for Hillary now. Mrs. Obama has been “lucky” enough to get a double dose of both racism AND misogyny dumped on her for the past 8 years, and she knows what Hillary is facing.
Boussinesque
I am so stealing this.
eclare
Does anyone know anything about the woman moderating the debate tonight, as far as how fair she might be? She is on a streaming channel owned by CBS, I think.
MikefromArlington
Someone ask Trump how many properties he owns.
eclare
@Keith P.: I’d be willing to bet on which candidate relates better to voters.
hovercraft
@Arclite: @Iowa Old Lady:
It was part of the Arkansas project to destroy the Clinton’s, he was a randy goat who abused and raped women, and she was Lady Macbeth. There was a fear that the whole two for the price of one, was going to be the foundation for a future run for her. 25 years of bashing her as corrupt and conniving and manipulative, secretive, lying, will cause the bullshit to sink in. Many people just believe the fact that there have been so many investigations makes people think there’s something there, even if the Clintons are slippery enough to avoid prosecution. Notice how the media always say that “the Clintons always skate right up to the line”, in other words they stay within the bounds of law, but the way they say it, makes it seem unseemly.
Iowa Old Lady
@hovercraft: I remember some of that, but it always seemed preposterous to me, so I just ignored it and went on with my life.
I do remember being infuriated by the way HRC was treated in the whole cookie bakeoff.
different-church-lady
@MikefromArlington: What? And hand the election to McCain?
Mnemosyne
I don’t want to step on rikyrah’s toes, but I guess I missed Mary J Blige’s interview with Hillary Clinton on her new talk show.
Clinton has a multi-racial, multi-ethnic, multi-gender coalition. Trump has angry white people. Nixon may have been able to slice off racist white people, but our side of the pie is bigger now.
maryQ
I love how she says “don’t believe it when they say xyz about me”.
Anoniminous
@Jim Parish:
I believe you meant to write:
and FYWP did an auto-incorrect.
trnc
Every once in a while, CNN surprises me.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/04/politics/reality-check-donald-trump-hillary-clinton-emails/index.html
Roger Moore
@Arclite:
A lot of it is the result of 25 years of mudslinging, but some of it is general misogyny.
Pest Bog Mummy, Frakensteinbeck
@hovercraft:
It does make a difference that from day one the national news media leaped on board the campaign to destroy the Clintons. Even if they had to pay attention to Republican smear-mongering, they could have run their investigative articles as ‘We investigated accusations of pay-for-play and found that Hillary Clinton is innocent.’ Instead they went with ‘This person gave to the Clinton Foundation and then asked the State Department for stuff. Here’s why that’s so suspicious!’ and put the actual information, that he got nothing even though he was a major donor, waaaaay down below the poop flinging.
Miss Bianca
@ET: What’s the left-wing’s excuse for Clinton Derangement Syndrome?
ETA: never mind, Hovercraft @20 makes a pretty good case for how it spread among our so-called allies…le sigh.
Mnemosyne
Also, too, I’ve been having a totally random thought that I’d like to document:
I’m starting to suspect that Chelsea is going to take over a lot of the traditional “First Lady” duties since Bill’s health doesn’t seem great and, frankly, I just can’t picture him doing that kind of strictly PR stuff. Am I nuts to think this?
themann1086
@BR: Been helping out the local state rep race. Go Keffer! She’s been the major driving force behind making Upper Darby Dems competitive in local elections. Turnout still lags behind Republicans, but we do a bit better each year…
Droppy
I don’t know how any man (let’s particularly look at the demographic of which I am ashamed to say I belong – white males, who support Trump by large margins) who knows any young women, especially who has young daughters, could be blind to the whole body image disaster that is the modern American culture. These kids are in a constant state of bombardment. They are told every day a million times that 1) physical beauty counts more than anything else; 2) you are not beautiful, or, if you are, there are others who are much more beautiful than you; 3) if you give in to any of this you are, as Trump would say about the vets with PTSD, “weak.” God, what a debased world that could let someone like Trump get to this position.
NotMax
This.
Something of which the front page has been curiously devoid.
Mary
@Mnemosyne: That’s an interesting idea. One thing is for sure – there’s no real precedent for the dynamic that we are about to see in the White House. I for one find that very exciting and I can’t wait to see how it plays out.
eclare
@Mnemosyne: I think I even read that somewhere, not on account of Bill’s health, but just that would be more her role.
ETA: and hasn’t Hillary said Bill would focus more on job creation?
different-church-lady
@Miss Bianca:
Well for starters, Bill had the audacity to actually win a presidential election.
Another Scott
@Arclite: Everyone has hated Hillary since she stabbed Goldwater in the back. That’s why he lost in 1964, you know. It’s all her fault.
Look at her approval numbers. They’re abysmal!!11
/snark
Seriously, reality doesn’t matter much when it comes to the visceral hatred that she’s subject to.
Cheers,
Scott.
MJS
@Arclite: To answer your question, yes, it is all manufactured bullshit, ably shoveled by the media.
Arclite
It’s interesting that I’ve disliked recent Republican candidates for their lack of intellect (i.e. Reagan and George W.) as much as their positions. Yet dislike of Clinton (or Obama, or Kerry, or Gore) never seems to fall on their ability or even the issues but always “character” and the press plays right along, as if sighing (Gore), being long winded (Kerry), speaking urban (Obama), or being shrill (Clinton) has anything but the most tangential connection to being president. And of course Republicans are never held to this standard. The left made fun of W’s word salad, alcoholism, etc. but the mainstream press never did. Frustrating!
With Trump on the other hand, his character traits are so far out of the norm, that they do in fact matter for presidential fitness.
FlipYrWhig
@Arclite: The original hatred for her was that she was a “career girl” made good who was condescending towards stay-at-home moms. See under “Mommy wars.” Then the left decided she was a sell-out, I suppose initially over the Iraq War vote, but also over how she handled a flag-burning bill and (for the younger set especially) a video game censorship bill. There was also discontent in the blogosphere about the role of the hated DLC and their habit of tacking to the center. So lefties concluded that Hillary Clinton was being cynical, trying to shore up the right, and taking them for granted, and righties thought she was a deranged rad-fem.
Personally, I don’t find her scintillating in public appearances — but exceptionally few presidents ever have been since the invention of modern media, and IMHO Bill was not one of the exceptions (I think he’s long-winded and loves the sound of his own voice), so I’ve always thought that was a weird criticism to aim at her in particular.
different-church-lady
@Mnemosyne: To my knowledge, nobody’s asked Bill for a cookie recipe yet.
Mnemosyne
@Mary:
@eclare:
This is probably going to come out sounding weird, but right now the First Lady basically does what William and Kate do for the U.K. — she travels around doing PR and charity work to promote the president’s programs. That seems like something that would be more in Chelsea’s wheelhouse than in Bill’s.
Plus the Obamas have already set the precedent for having three generations living in the White House at the same time, and you can’t tell me that Hillary and Bill would not love to be able to watch their grandchildren grow up there.
Roger Moore
@Mnemosyne:
No, that seems reasonable. I think it would be better if Bill were up to doing some of that stuff- to destroy sexism, it’s as important for men to do “women’s work” as for women to do “men’s work”- but it probably makes more sense to have Chelsea do it.
FlipYrWhig
@Miss Bianca:
“Triangulation” from when he was president. My younger brother, who was politically obsessive even then (age 16) and went on to become an organizer and professional rabble-rouser, never liked Clinton during the primary race and was a big fan of Jerry Brown, but I forget what he thought Bill Clinton’s ideological offenses were. But for some people on the left, contempt for Bill Clinton emerged pretty quickly, and not just on the basis of folderol about “character.”
Mai.naem.mobile
I know this is supposed to be a positive thread about Hilz and not Trump but I can’t resist. Have they changed Trumps campaign song to the Beatles ‘Taxman’ from the Stones’ ‘You Can’t Always Get What You Want’
Roger Moore
@Miss Bianca:
Two things:
1) Believing enough of the Republicans’ smears to have an effect. A big thing that makes the Republican slime machine effective is that they’ve hit the Clintons with charges of general dishonesty and corruption, which all right thinking people are supposed to hate. That makes it potentially effective with everyone, even the left.
2) Misogyny. It’s hard to miss that the strongest anti-Clinton voices on the left come from men.
Mnemosyne
@Roger Moore:
I could see Bill taking over, say, the veterans stuff and becoming a great advocate there. After all, he’s the “I feel your pain” president, so he can do at least some of the emotional and empathetic stuff just fine.
I just don’t see him being able to do the more active stuff, like Let’s Move. That’s where I could see Chelsea coming in handy.
Srv
Both sides do it, but I just did it in my pants!
NotMax
@different-church-lady
Same venue (Parade?) did earlier this year, and he recycled hers.
debbie
Speaking of derangement, they’re even driving the GOP establishment nuts:
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2016/10/04/jon-husted-bogus-voter-fraud-story.html
maryQ
She kills it in this format.
Mnemosyne
@Roger Moore:
Also, too, I wonder if Bill could take on policing and Black Lives Matter as a “First Lady” issue. It would be a tough one and he would get a lot of shit from both sides, but he’s got a pretty damn thick skin at this point.
FlipYrWhig
@efgoldman: I always hear people calling him charismatic, but it doesn’t really work for me. To me he seems like a pretty solid drinking buddy, smart, handsome, but who you get a little sick of over the course of the night after he starts repeating his tall tales and theories of how the world really works.
FlipYrWhig
@Mnemosyne: Oooh, clever, too, because he could use that to partially redeem himself for the Rickey Ray Rector and Sister Souljah stuff from 1992.
Roger Moore
@FlipYrWhig:
Sure, but why did that stick so hard to Hillary? What I remember, especially from volunteering for the 1996 campaign, was that the lefties who disliked Bill as a triangulator were much happier with Hillary and Al Gore, who they saw as more properly leftist. What changed their opinion?
Trollhattan
@debbie:
Poor little votes, they must be hungry!
That’s so weird, even by their standards. Reminds me of GWB looking for WMDs on his hands and knees in the Oval Office. Good times.
Helen
Hey everyone, since we all enjoy it so much when Anne Laurie posts Owen Ellickson’s Trump Leaks tweets, just wanted you to know that Owen has set up a gofundme for the America Refugee Committee. The original goal was $10,000 to “Give more than Trump” based on David Farenthold’s estimated total charitable donations from Trump over the last 7 ½ years. Owen hit the goal in 40 minutes and is still going strong. I gave $50. Please go over to Owen’s Twitter feed for more info. And lots of laughs, also, too!
FlipYrWhig
@Roger Moore: IMHO what happened was that when Hillary as senator got involved in issues like flag burning and video game labeling she was thenceforth tagged as Triangulating Clinton, Part the Second, “More of the Same.”
FlipYrWhig
@efgoldman: OK, for comparing Obama to Jesse Jackson in SC in 2008, though I think that was unbelievably ginned up out of nothing. At any rate, Bill hasn’t always been excellent on race and criminal justice, and I’m sure he’d like to fix that.
The Ancient Randonneur
I look forward to hearing the words “Madam President:”. It will mean a lot to me and it will mean a lot to my teenaged daughters. My girls are lucky they have a mom who talks to them about body image and being proud of being a girl. The message is getting through to them and I think the message is getting through to many of their peers. I’ve worked on that message since they were very young.
Never forget that #LikeAGirl should never be an insult.
If Clinton wins I know that a lot of hate will be thrown at her because she is a woman. Fortunately we have a candiate who understands that and is willing to take on that challenge.
Matt McIrvin
@FlipYrWhig: And more than anything else, the Iraq vote. That was certainly part of Obama’s edge over her in the 2008 primary.
eclare
@different-church-lady: I thought he did submit one, but it was Hillary’s original. But that idiotic contest still exists. Just googled, yes, Bill and Melania submitted recipes.
The Ancient Randonneur
@debbie:
They built that!
eclare
@Mnemosyne: Doesn’t sound weird to me at all! And you’re right, they would love to have the grandkids there.
Mai.naem.mobile
@Miss Bianca: theres a whole list:closeness to Wall Street(Robert Rubin,Larry Summers,Glass Steagall), DADT,Welfare reform, Superpredators/drug war stuff,screwing Lani Guiniere ,failure on Hillarycare,losing the House. Also, the Clintons have a reputation for holding grudges for a long time.
Chyron HR
@Mai.naem.mobile:
Okey-dokey.
Baud
@Mai.naem.mobile: Never agreed with DADT. It’s like hating Obama for no public option.
SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch
@eclare:
I have more trouble envisioning Melania in the kitchen than Bill.
SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch
@Baud:
DADT was ugly, but probably unavoidable as an increment on the path to full legality and acceptance. That’s what extreme ideologues don’t get, and why they are such energy sucks.
Roger Moore
@eclare:
He should have sent in a vegan cookie recipe, since he switched to veganism for health reasons.
Baud
@SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch: Agree, and it wasn’t his going in proposal. He wanted full repeal, but had to settle.
eclare
@Roger Moore: Good point!
Mai.naem.mobile
@Mnemosyne: I actually don’t think thats a good idea..Chelseas hubby works on Wall Street(GS??) and what the GOP House will do is subpoena the WH visitors records and start a bogus scandal. The Clintons have a home in DC and I am.
sure they wouldn’t have a problem with Chelsea moving there.
BTW, this thread kinda sounds like we’re measuring the Oval Office curtains. Let’s wait till she wins.
eclare
@SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch: Tell me about it. That family is just all kinds of fucked up.
Trollhattan
@The Ancient Randonneur:
Same here. My kid just entered high school, thinks Obama is “totally chill” and excited to be present for Hillary to make history. Took her to a Hillary rally (we didn’t make it inside, but hung outside and listened on the PA with the crowd) and she filled in the Hillary bubble on my primary ballot. Want her to know that despite the many nutters with bullhorns, good things can and do happen in America all the time. You just have to want them bad enough to work for them.
Baud
@Mai.naem.mobile: After she wins, I’ll be too busy hating on her for selling us out.
Steve in the ATL
@FlipYrWhig: have you ever met him or heard him speak live? He oozes charisma. He’s one of those people who have such strong energy that you can’t help being drawn to them.
He spoke at my school in 1988 and got a huge ovation–at a school cited by the Washington Post as a “breeding ground for young republicans.” He then came to our party, got hammered, and played sax with the band. I chatted with him for a while. He was a good dude.
Trollhattan
@SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch:
If you picture Eddy’s remodeled kitchen after the old one burned in AbFab, with the floor-to-ceiling champagne fridge, Meliana would totally hang in that kitchen. (I’m guessing she didn’t grow up rich and probably actually knows what the appliances and gadgets are called. Hubby, not so much.)
Steve in the ATL
@Mai.naem.mobile: au contraire. Bill Clinton has a reputation for forgiving people, even those who don’t deserve it. He’s a hell of a lot more Christian than than those bible thumpers who attack him.
Mai.naem.mobile
@Chyron HR: @Baud: hey, I didn’t say I agreed with it, I was answering Miss Bianca’s question. Also I forgot to mention the FCC rules change that allowed RW radio and FOX to flourish.
The only thing that worries me about Clinton is her closeness to Wall St and the banks.
Roger Moore
@Baud:
Good to know you aren’t wasting any time; it would be a shame to have to see how she does before calling her a sellout.
Mnemosyne
@Mai.naem.mobile:
I’m sorry, but criticizing the Clintons because Chelsea married the son of their old friends who also works on Wall Street is the stupidest fucking criticism on the face of the goddamned earth. Really?
And, yes, it makes me a little queasy when people start howling about how evil a Jewish man is for working in banking. It’s fucking creepy.
(He started his career at Goldman Sachs and is now a partner in his own firm. An INVESTMENT FIRM OMFG THIS PROVES THE
JOOSBANKSTERS ARE CONSPIRING AGAINST US!!!)OzarkHillbilly
@Trollhattan: Having grown up in communist Yugoslavia* it would not surprise me in the least if she was unfamiliar with a few of the high end appliances. Hell, I probably wouldn’t know what some of them are for and I spend a lot of time in the kitchen.
*yes she is from Slovenia, but when she was growing up it was still commie Yugoslavia
Baud
@Mai.naem.mobile: I’m not too worried about that because she seems pretty tight with Warren. Not saying she’ll be 100%, but I expect her to be pretty good.
Gravenstone
@Mnemosyne: Something like that would drive the right wing completely around the bend (or maybe back around it?). They would immeidately assume she’s being groomed for her own WH run at some future date, just as Hillary was “groomed” during her time as First Lady.
Mai.naem.mobile
@Steve in the ATL: I meant politically..They keep their chits on who supported them and who didn’t. There were a couple of primaries after ’08 where Bill went out and campaigned for people who were running against people who had not supported them. IIRC one was in Colorado and one in PA. I am not saying its a big issue but I don’t see Obama doing that.
hovercraft
Larry Sabato was on with Chick Todd a little while ago, and he said that the race has been pretty steady since July, he said Hilary has been holding steady with a lead of 3 to 5 points. The ‘noise’ we have been seeing is mostly the screens changing as pollsters have moved from registered to likely voters. He said that looking back historically the slight upticks and dips are the result, not of changing allegiances, but rather of partisans getting angry or disappointed by their candidate, and refusing to answer the phone or participate in surveys. So the bottom line is that to win Hillary just needs to keep her supporters happy and engaged, which the debate did last week. Trump on the other hand needs something to change the basic dynamics of the race, because he’s been behind since before the conventions.
Every one GOTV and we win, simple as that.
EDIT: I just saw the typo in his name, but I’m not fixing it.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Mnemosyne: also, Chelsea’s MIL was considered (and lost her seat for) the deciding vote in Bill Clinton’s tax increases in his first term. Ever notice there’s rarely, if ever, such a thing as credit by association, as opposed to guilt?
Steve in the ATL
@OzarkHillbilly: I once arrested a ship from Yugoslavia for not paying its port bill. Let it go shortly thereafter when Yugoslavia ceased to exist and it seemed unlikely the bill would ever be paid. Ah, good times!
Baud
@Mai.naem.mobile: FDR was like that too. I don’t think it’s a left/right issue.
Mai.naem.mobile
@Mnemosyne: its not criticism of Chelsea,its the possible conflict of interest from his job which I guarantee the GOP will bring up. I know the GOP is going to try and hang Hilz anyway, but I sure as heck am not handing them the rope to do it with. You might want to remember that the RWNJs call Mrs Robinson a moocher and a welfare queen because OMG she chose to continue what she was doing in Chicago anyway – help raise her grandkids – and shes retired.
hovercraft
@Mai.naem.mobile:
Remember when David Patterson appointed Kirsten Gilebrand to replace Hillary, progressives were up in arms because she was a conservadem, because she represented an Upstate conservative district. She turned out to be a good senator. Representing your constituents is normal, when she gets elected (hopefully), she will be more concerned with shoring up her standing with the base, so that she can get re-elected. Remember also too that Obama was pro-coal as an IL senator, but then became our greenest president ever. Parochial interests are necessary for state elections, the president has to be more global.
Mnemosyne
@Mai.naem.mobile:
He would need to take a leave of absence from his job, but that wouldn’t make the people who are all goddamned freaked out that Chelsea married a “bankster” shut their fucking mouths. They wouldn’t be happy unless she divorced him, and even then they would never let it go.
It’s the fucking 21st century. Chelsea didn’t marry Mark Mezvinsky because her parents wanted to curry favor with Wall Street, and to suggest otherwise means those people are WAY too fucking gullible to live.
And, yes, some people bitched because Mrs. Robinson moved into the White House with her family. Some people are assholes. So what?
shomi
@Keith P.: It’s almost as if they planned it that way. Without any help from Ball Juice campaign experts either.
Won’t matter though because….Al Gore.
Steeplejack (tablet)
@Helen:
Seconded. The link to Ellickson’s Twitter stream is here.
Also, Ellickson got a nice write-up in the Times today.
shomi
@trnc: You’re surprised that CNN is still regurgitating the same nothingburger? You’re surprised that the first 14 paragraphs explain the nothingburger as if it’s a somethingburger before finally pointing out in the very last 2 paragraphs that it’s a nothingburger?
That surprises you???
burnspbesq
@Jim Parish:
You’ve obviously been brainwashed. Anchovies are what God Herself intended to be put on pizza.
RaflW
@Patricia Kayden:
Fivethirtyeight Ohio: HRC 50.7% Trump 49.3%.
Nationally, from June 8 to today, Trump has only been ahead of Clinton one day in the 538 daily tracker. One day. It was July 30th. Trump got kinda close by Sept 26th, but then something happened (hmmmm). Since then the trend has been positive for HRC.
I’m not in any ‘yeah, she’s got this down cold’ spot. But we don’t need to panic. For Kay’s sake (and lots of other folks), I do hope Ohio goes Blue. It certainly can.
Turgidson
@Baud:
And so sprout the green shoots of the Baud! 2020 campaign.
Trollhattan
@hovercraft:
I like Gilebrand a lot, at least from my perch three time zones away, and think of her as possibly part of the next Dem wave.
SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch
This is a minor point, but rather telling I think: When you look at the “Clinton-Kaine” signage, the two names are in exactly the same font and size. Clinton thinks highly enough of her running mate to give him equal billing. Not so “Trump-Pence”: Trump’s name, unsurprisingly, is much larger and in a much heavier, bolder font, while Pence’s name is a smaller, lighter-weight typeface. As I say, not surprising at all — indeed, it’s maybe surprising that Trump allows Pence any space at all on the signs — but the contrast between the two campaigns is interesting.
hovercraft
@Trollhattan:
Exactly, she’s now a base favorite, after coming out of her rural district to represent the entire state.
Mrs Greenspan just said that Mike Pence is very smart, Tweety agreed and said that he is one of the most serious, principled people in politics, who stands by what he believes. So I guess he believes in what Trump spouts?
Roger Moore
@hovercraft:
I think this kind of thinking points to the big difference between 538 and PEC when it comes to election forecasts. 538 looks at a snapshot of the current state of the polls and treats it our current state of knowledge. PEC looks not only at the current state of the polls but also at their history and uses that as a source of information for the general state of the election. So when there’s a swing, 538’s model sees only where we are and says Trump has a much better chance of winning, while PEC’s model tends to see it as another swing within the existing range and doesn’t change its prediction as much.
Mnemosyne
@Mai.naem.mobile:
And I’m sorry I kind of unloaded on you but, seriously, every time I ask someone online what they mean when they say Hillary is “too close to Wall Street,” they bring up her son-in-law. Every. Single. Time.
Even better, that’s usually the ONLY thing they bring up. There isn’t legislation they point to or regulations that were blocked. Somehow, the only evidence needed is who Chelsea married. The unexamined sexism there is fucking astonishing.
hovercraft
@Roger Moore:
Exactly, I haven’t checked out Sabato’s Crystal Ball site this election, but I’m assuming based on what he’s said that his aggregate has been less volatile. Nate will need to adjust the volatility if he wants to be taken seriously next election.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@hovercraft: Didn’t he also say a “tough customer”? I can’t even imagine what the evidence is for that, even in Tweety’s fevered brain.
hovercraft
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Yes he did, and now he’s agreeing with Hugh Hewwitt on how Pence should attack Hillary on her scandals and trustworthiness. He really hates her.
EDIT: I love how he ended the segment with “I’m trying to figure if you can attack and hurt?” This is a liberal?
Roger Moore
@Mnemosyne:
I guess I see it differently. The big problem is that they are basing their worries about Hillary being too close to Wall Street on feelings rather than facts. When they’re pushed, they can’t come up with any actual evidence of something she’s done that would justify their belief, so they’re left clutching at straws in the form of pointing at her son-in-law. This general kind of thing- people forming opinions first and looking for evidence later, if ever- happens all the time; it’s just more obvious in the case of Hillary and Wall Street because the rationalizations are so thin.
gene108
@Mnemosyne:
The issue about Bill taking on a “First Lady” cause is could he stay focused on it for years and years?
I am not sure he could stay focused on a single cause, without gettting curious about solving other problems.
With Clinton Foundation, he’s been able to leverage his celebrity to keep moving to new causes that he finds out about and wants to support.
I think that would be the big issue with him handling a “First Lady” cause.
Roger Moore
@hovercraft:
The thing is that Nate doesn’t see the volatility as a negative. I’d need to chase it down, but yesterday he was saying that the mark of a good prediction approach is that it responds to events. IOW, he thinks that the big swings are a sign he’s doing it right, not that he’s doing it wrong. I wonder if his background in sports might be leading him astray. That is the way things work in sports; the wins and losses you accumulate through the season count, so that one team being ahead at the halfway point makes a big difference in their overall chance of winning.
Bailey
I just tuned into MSNBC for the debate pre-show and missed most of John Heilemann’s comments on Kaine and I swear he was talking about Kaine’s skills speaking in phonetic reversal. Did I hear that right or did anyone else hear that? If so, what an insanely cool party trick.
Omnes Omnibus
@FlipYrWhig: People I know who have met Bill say that he is amazingly charismatic in person with the ability to focus on you like you are the only person in the room.
Mnemosyne
@Roger Moore:
I think it’s both, and the implication that Chelsea is too stupid to pick her own husband pisses me off.
I admit, when I first heard that Chelsea had married someone who worked for Goldman Sachs, I was like, Really? And then I went and LOOKED UP THE FACTS and saw that their parents had been friends for a long time, which made sense.
But, yes, it’s also about people feeling like Hillary is untrustworthy and editing the facts to fit that narrative rather than looking at the actual facts before drawing a conclusion.
Mai.naem.mobile
@Mnemosyne: It’s okay. I was taken aback by your response:) I seriously didn’t realize Wall Street was code for Joos. You learn something new every day. I thought New Yawk bankers was code for Jooos. When I say Wall Street I mean the financial industry which just seems to get away with fines for crimes instead of doing time. If your normal joe can do time for petty crime, these financial a*holes should be doing time to. As far as Chelseas husband, I am guessing he will end up at the Clinton Foundation if she becomes POTUS.
SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch
Thanks so much for putting up the link to the entire Town Hall. I just watched it straight through. What a huge contrast, just rhetorically — let alone on substance and issues — between her and her opponent. And Chelsea is gravy.
If Hillary brings even a fraction of that thoughtfulness, compassion, and intelligence to her presidency, this country’s in pretty good shape.
SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch
@Mnemosyne:
Totally agree with your second sentence, but question the first. Would vets’ organizations give him the time of day? I always thought they despised him because Vietnam draft dodging.
However, I can easily see him as an advocate for reforming and demilitarization of local policing, BLM, sensible gun safety measures, and so on. He’d be great at those things.
(To be clear, he’d be great on vets’ issues too, I’m just not sure they’d have him.)
Mnemosyne
@Mai.naem.mobile:
I agree that banks and other financial institutions are getting away with way too much, but to say that Hillary Clinton’s son-in-law being a hedge fund manager proves that she’s too soft on Wall Street is just … insane. It’s saying that 1 plus 2 is 24.
SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch
@efgoldman:
Yeah, I was in the hall that night (the DNConvention was in Atlanta in ’88). It wasn’t really as awful as subsequent legend would have it. But what I most remember (I’ve told this story before here at BJ) is a week or so later, when he went on the Tonight Show and Johnny said something like “That really wasn’t your finest hour,” and Bill replied “Heck, it wasn’t even my finest two hours!”
Ruckus
@Steve in the ATL:
My mom met him, shock his hand, she went weak in the knees when she told the story, let alone on the actual day.
BruceFromOhio
Nice, this. Thanks for posting it.
Gvg
Umm, while we are arranging the White House, can I mention that I have not heard Chelsea make that many speeches and I have heard her criticized for not making the best impression for her mom. Just because both her parents are good at politics, doesn’t mean she is or wants to be. I recall some really nasty attacks on her as a child (which I hold a grudge about) and it would not surprise me if she decided it wasn’t for her. At any rate she has not been in the public eye much and I don’t think she is going to be playing First Lady. I would guess Hillary will still be hostess with professional staff and Bill will do whatever he wants ignoring whatever people think a First Lady does. I don’t remember the lady’s being that alike anyway in my lifetime and historically it was different than now. Why bother trying to fill that kind of role. They are a power couple and most of us have known a few of those pairs. That is IMO the role Bill will fill.
I can also see him being Hillary’s ears and eyes like Elanor Roosevelt was reputed to be for FDR.
Mai.naem.mobile
@hovercraft: I really like Gillibrand. I know they talk about Klobuchar but I like Gillibrand more.
Ruckus
@SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch:
IMHO there seems to be three sides to the draft dodger thing. First a lot of vets that I know or talk to regularly don’t seem to care all that much. Many of them were drafted, they served but many of them also knew people who didn’t get drafted, even if they didn’t take any measures to avoid the draft. Many of them seem to understand that it wasn’t a choice to be drafted, to not be you had to take measures. Second a lot of men who enlisted did so at least partially because of the draft, I’m one of them. It still felt like somewhat of a duty to do so. Not sure I still hold that view, but it is what it is. Now there is the third part, the guys who are so gung ho that anyone who doesn’t serve is not worthy of being a citizen. I call that crap because even during Vietnam, with a draft, a very large percentage of men 18-35 yrs old didn’t serve. It has always been this way and even more so in peace time. We are a big enough country that really it would be difficult to have every one serve.
I guess what galls me is people like Trump, who calls for everyone but himself to fight, and in bullshit situations, while he fucked his way through Vietnam and is proud of it.
ETA To answer your question I’d like it a lot if Bill Clinton worked on Vet issues. Especially on funding the VA. They have saved my life and are continuing to work on that. I can not express how much I appreciate the people who work at the VA, and how much President Obama has worked to make the place better.
Ruckus
@SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch:
That is so Bill Clinton.