In a normal year, the media consensus would be that Kaine lost the debate because he wasn’t polite and deferential like a good Democrat should be to his Republican better. In the year of the Trump, Pence will be considered the loser because there will be thousands of tweets, Facebook memes and media stories juxtaposing his claim that Trump didn’t say some awful thing with Trump saying some awful thing.
Update: Example 1 – Trump was tweeting insults while Pence was poo-pooing Kaine’s claim that his campaign was insult-driven.
? Martin
I don’t think anyone here will be declared the winner, but yeah, Pence gave the media several more days of keeping Trump’s comments in the headlines.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Elizabelle
Avalanche of stupid!
It’s all going to be about Kaine’s interruptions, and not about the accuracy of the various statements. Pence’s crap was unsupportable.
Amy Walters (PBS) is talking about TONE. Because dog forbid someone discuss accuracy and accountability.
Elizabelle
Amy Walter: suggests Pence will be the winner because he is calmer under fire.
She must be auditioning for NPR.
SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch
@Elizabelle:
I can hardly wait to hear what Mara Liasson has to say tomorrow morning!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I’m with Cole
Felonius Monk
Bullshit. Kaine will be/is being pronounced the loser by the MSM who collectively really don’t know shit, but they have the microphones. You could write a thesis on what was wrong with this debate, but why bother. People hear what they want to hear and don’t let the truth get in their way. This whole debate scheme is an utter disgrace and the media and its incompetent moderators are mostly to blame. Fuck’em.
Elizabelle
Mark Shields suggesting Trump will not be pleased to hear people find Pence to be the better debater.
Shields also says Kaine was excessively fawning over Hillary Clinton. I didn’t mind; it was refreshing to not hear how unpopular and untrustworthy she is. From someone in the know.
David Brooks seems not to be on PBS. Maybe he’s in a cotton candy coma from his craptacular column today (which I did not read. Not getting paid to do so.)
sigaba
@srv: Scott Adams is kind of a creep.
ChrisH
Bloomberg streaming service is currently going with “Pence won on style and poise, but did anything true tonight?”
There’s a definite tension here I’m seeing where reporters go “Well Pence clearly won…” but then have to keep going back to moments where Pence failed to actually defend against various things Kaine said
SFAW
@SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch:
Well, young lady, just make sure you don’t stay up all night waiting.
Of course, if you bopped over to Fox, you probably wouldn’t have to wait.
mistermix
@Elizabelle: Back when she was the Congressional correspondent for Cook Political, I respected what Amy had to say because she knew Congress. Unfortunately, to advance in the DC political pundit system, she had to become a “both sides do it” “analyst” and park her brain at the curb when she walked into a TV studio.
On tone, Pence was the more civil because he didn’t interrupt as much as Kaine. If the goal is to show the base that Pence will be the “real President” because Trump doesn’t give a shit about governing, then perhaps Pence “won”. Otherwise, any reasonable fact check will show that he lied for 90 minutes straight.
schrodinger's cat
@Elizabelle: Amy Walter is awful. Was she giggling too?
Howard Beale IV
The whole VP debate will be pushed off to the side in a few days once Hurricane Matthew starts to churn towards the US….
Elizabelle
@SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch: Not getting paid to listen to Mara Fucking Liasson. So no NPR tomorrow. None. During their news segments, anyway.
Maybe Terry Gross, if I’m in the car. Today she had some expert on dogs.
WaterGirl
Pence: “Thanks for a great discussion.”
Kaine: “Absolutely!”
wow. it’s apparently true. every politician really does lie.
ChrisH
As bloomberg continues their analysis this feels like Pence was the Phantom Menace: People are real positive in the heat of the moment but the longer they think about it, the less they like it.
Bill E Pilgrim
I can’t remember who the actual Presidential candidate is, oh wait – Alec Baldwin, right?
Pence was clearly out to prove that Donald Trump doesn’t exist.
Felonius Monk
Time to start tweeting to @RealDonaldTrump that perhaps he should be Pence’s VP.
ETA: To seed the storm clouds.
sigaba
@Felonius Monk: I’ve noticed that the press is in the Pauline Kael stage of debate review– they’ll openly trash one side or the other but gleefully dress up their opinion in all kinds of analysis that may or may not be on-point, and may or may not be motivated by Scorsese hitting on them at the bar after the premiere.
I wish they would just drop the pretense of analysis and just rate either side zero to five stars, thus entering the Leonard Maltin stage of review: we make no pretense to taste or depth but we boil everything down to 2.5 stars based on a worldview that everyone knows is populist and intentionally dumbed down. (Maltin gave Amadeus 2.5 stars, as well as Baghdad Cafe and Running Man…)
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Baud
@srv: He’s right for once. Palin may be the only exception.
Keith P.
@ChrisH: That was definitely Jake Tapper. He immediately went into him thinking Pence won, but “we’ll have to see” what happens after the fact-checking is done. Head-slap.
Truegster
Non villagers don’t give a F about Pence’s extra extra squinty eyes, silver Lego hair and cool demeanor. The Alt-Right is probably wishing Pence was at the top of the ticket, he’s got a melodious dog whistle. The debate goes to Kaine because he interrupted with good jabs, Pence didn’t defend Sniffles the Orange Clown. Kaine memorized the best quotes, worst policies and Pence did not defend them.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Cole is right.
gf120581
I’m agreeing with several pundits in that Pence tonight was all about positioning for 2020. He basically threw Trump under the bus with that constant lying about him. He don’t care, he just wanted to look good so they’ll remember him next time around. After all, didn’t he take one for the team by running with this freak? You owe him.
As for Kaine, he did what a running mate is supposed to do in these things; go after the guy at the top of the other ticket. And Pence basically just let him do it.
Elizabelle
@schrodinger’s cat: Nope. No giggling from Amy. I giggled, though, when she brought up “tone.”
What are we all now, audio engineers?
But def thought of you when listening to Amy W. You were on to her first.
bluefish
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Move over. For sure but first we’ll have to life through the style debate. Or not. Who you gonna believe? This was a no-brainer in terms of winning for any sane, rational person. But I digress.
Seanly
@SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch:
Shoot me now. About the only person on NPR I loathe more than Mara Liason is Cokie Fucking Roberts.
different-church-lady
What’s all this about whipping out a Mexican thing?
sigaba
@Elizabelle: I AM an audio engineer and I go on for several minutes about the Dean Scream.
(We used the Dean Scream in the Billy Bob Thornton Alamo by the way, listen for it at the Battle of San Jacinto scene.)
different-church-lady
@Truegster:
The alt-right is thrilled with Trump. It’s the halfway-normal right that’s wishing Pence were the nominee.
different-church-lady
@sigaba: What’s this “we”? Who do you work for and how do I work for you?
NotMax
@srv
Ah, but once in a while we are graced with delicious, pull back the curtain moments such as Admiral Stockdale’s “Why am I here?”
TaMara (HFG)
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: He is not fucking kidding. I was flipping channels and heard some woman in the CBS audience say, “Kaine cherry picked Trump quotes and it made him sound kind of hysterical (Kaine, not Trump). WTF? I could not turn the channel quickly enough. Where is the fucking meteor when we need one?
different-church-lady
@NotMax: “And you’re no George Kennedy either!”
Adam L Silverman
@Baud: Yep, as I wrote downstairs: Kaine’s job was to hit Trump through Pence. He did that.
Truegster
@TaMara (HFG): what’s the giant meteor’s VP? You know, in case it misses…
RealityBites
In WV, the state issues coal friendly license plates. I’m still learning links, hope this works.
Elizabelle
@sigaba: Hilarious!
Does Dean get royalties?
Mnemosyne
@Elizabelle:
Wut? Shields does know that Kaine is Hillary Clinton’s running mate, right? It’s his job to be excessively fawning. He’s the goddamned hype man!
Adam L Silverman
@Truegster: Hurricane Matthew.
Seanly
Hmm, my edit disappeared…
I wanted to add that Mike Pence creeps me out. He has that smarmy Christiany look to him. The guy who’s so religious you don’t know if he’s faking it to get to your wallet or kids, or maybe he does believe that crap. Not sure which is worse.
I didn’t see much of the debate, but isn’t attacking Kaine for interrupting but not calling out Trump for his constant interruptions pretty hypocritical? hahahahaha media would never stoop so low as to be consistent.
NotMax
@different-church-lady
When it comes down to brass tacks, who among us really is?
A role George Kennedy probably would rather have forgotten.
Baud
@Mnemosyne: The media doesn’t like it when people present Hillary as a good person.
different-church-lady
@NotMax: A breakout role for Waldorf. Did Statler appear in that film too?
Howard Beale IV
Well, that didn’t take long. Go look where http://www.thatmexicanthing.com goes to.
sigaba
@Elizabelle: Someone also used it in Team America, listen for it in the attack on Paris. It had a brief career as the New Wilhelm.
Beautifulplumage
I listened on the radio and it sounded like Pence interrupted as much & more insistently than Kaine. Does anyone do a time analysis to measure who had more uninterrupted speaking time?
Brachiator
@Felonius Monk:
Nobody cares what the MSM thinks. Not even the MSM.
Debates are not about the truth. They are like a dog show where the candidates do tricks and preen. Voters decide which blue ribbon winning dog they want to be with for the next four years.
Zinsky
Kaine should have destroyed the fetus fetishist Pence and his idiotic “war on coal”. Did people complain about a “war on whale oil” or a “war on buggy whips”? Coal is dirty, unnecessary and finite. Solar is clean and unlimited (at least for a few billion years). It’s also instantaneous and can be used immediately. Coal takes millions of years to produce. Leave the shit in the ground!
RaflW
The insult-driven campaign thing was probably the single most risible thing Pence out out, in the sense of being really weak and bullshitty.
Funniest? “You whipped out that Mexican thing again.”
Seems like that could be a great oppo tag line if Pence tries to mount a 2020 campaign for prez.