.
PA GOP source heard from mult pastors: "Evangelicals believe God is using Trump to deliver Pence to the WH, & that Trump will be eliminated"
— Todd Zwillich (@toddzwillich) October 5, 2016
Top priority, of course, is keep Donald Trump so far away from the Oval Office he’s not even allowed on the guided tours. But if we can also remind voters that Pence and his fellow ‘evangelicals’ are dangerous, racist, woman-hating, hypocritical shitbags, that would be a nice bonus. Mike Pence is basically Rick Santorum with less energy but nicer hair.
A narrative that Pence won the debate at the expense of Trump is a gift to Democrats whose daily goal is to provoke Trump to act crazy
— Dan Pfeiffer (@danpfeiffer) October 5, 2016
Remember, if Pence hadn't been picked by Ivanka & her husband, he'd be losing his reelection right now.
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) October 5, 2016
Beware normalization: Pence embracing a reality denial strategy on such a high profile stage is a warning sign of creeping Trumpism https://t.co/RYJiTfnIVx
— Brendan Nyhan (@BrendanNyhan) October 5, 2016
Some think I won last night's debate. I'll leave that to others. From where I sat, @realDonaldTrump's vision for America was the real winner
— Mike Pence (@mike_pence) October 5, 2016
Pence stuck up for Trump about as zealously as you’d expect given Trump didn’t want him & then tried to undo the pick after it was announced
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) October 5, 2016
2020 PRIMARY DEBATE MODERATOR: Governor Pence, you were Donald Trump's running mate in 2016…
PENCE: *shakes head emphatically*
— Angus Johnston (@studentactivism) October 5, 2016
Baud
Reading the news today, it seems the consensus is that Hillary’s team when all 11-D chess on Mike Pence.
redshirt
As I said below, I was rather surprised to get a Trump flyer, as my voting patterns are no secret. I wonder if everyone in district 2 got it.
ThresherK (GPad)
Mike Pence reminds me of Ralphie in “A Christmas Story” when his pal’s tongue s stuck to the flagpole and teacher asks
“Has anyone seen Flick?”
“Flick? Flick who?”
lollipopguild
Mike Pence did not have a relationship with the person named Trump.
Mary G
I saw a bunch of commercials for and against California propositions last night. Also the big ad for Applegate quoting Issa on how great Trump is. People in my area don’t like Trump, even the Republicans.
Kropadope
I’ll have to strenuously disagree with you on that last bit.
Bill E Pilgrim
Too bad that was the only VP debate, they could really start having some fun with him.
Kaine: “Donald Trump is a successful businessman.”
Pence: Shaking head “That is complete nonsense. Wait… what?”
SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch
I have to just laugh and laugh when I think about Trump, late at night mere hours before announcing his running mate, frantically texting his advisors asking “Can I still change my mind??!!”
L.
O.
L.
GregB
That Pence’s presence on the ticket doesn’t disqualify Pence for any future political positions is a sign of deep societal sickness.
Also too, Chris Matthews is a total pud.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
It looks like the campaign and Kaine had a strategy last night, but I still kind of wish they’d talked more about Pence’s own theocratic tendencies, but given they had a moderator who used Pete Peterson as an authority on Social Security, it’s unlikely planned parenthood for gay rights was going to come up that way.
lollipopguild
Maybe there is a bolt of lightning out there with Trumps name on it.
Shana
@redshirt: Unsurprising evidence that when they are spending money the Trump campaign is spending it stupidly.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I know what you mean, but there really is no point in attacking the VP candidate.
hovercraft
I guess Israel is glad that it’s someone else who is going to be the sacrificial lamb for a change. It must be tiring to only get support in order to fulfill evangelicals hopes and dreams. Someone should run this by Trump and get his thoughts.
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: It’s not hard to seem like you’re playing 11-dimensional chess when your opponent is playing & losing at Go Fish, regardless of whatever it is you’re actually doing.
Bill E Pilgrim
@Baud: Who was yours by the way?
MaryRC
This seems like a complicated way for God to carry on and also rather hard on Trump. Why didn’t God just get Pence to run in the primaries and win the nomination himself?
debbie
Blackish was great tonight. About Obama’s ending term. You all will love the ending. Try to find it and watch.
PsiFighter37
This is going to be forgotten quickly anyways, as Matthew is about to crush South Florida – and all attention will be diverted there. Is it bad of me to hope that Mar-A-Lago gets destroyed due to the storm’s strength?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Baud: Yeah, but I would like to see that stuff stuck to the ticket as a whole, not that Trump cares about either
dmsilev
So, has anyone told Trump yet that a sizable chunk of his base regards him as a sacrificial lamb whose only purpose is to get the Chosen One into power?
Baud
@Bill E Pilgrim: I would have considered Hillary.
hovercraft
@redshirt:
String them along, make them waste time coming to try to convince you to vote for the shitstain if you can stomach speaking to them.
dmsilev
@PsiFighter37:
Proof that God hates Trump?
Immanentize
@srv: I know your schtick is stupid asshole. But android is an OS NOT a battery. I used to ignore you. Now I pity you.
trollhattan
Now that I’ve been introduced to most of the Republican governors via their national aspirations I’m equal parts repelled and stumped as to how the hell we drive the lot from office. They cause tremendous damage, seem untouchable and comprise a giant chunk of the Republican bench.
Pence couldn’t be elected dog catcher ’round these parts yet is two unfunny accidents from becoming president.
Another Scott
Dunno if this has been discussed yet – you folks talk too much for me to keep up. ;-)
Hehe.
Cheers,
Scott.
Mandalay
Nobody outfucks the fat motherfucker…..:
Chris Christie: When they go low I go fucking lower.
PPCLI
“Evangelicals believe God is using Trump to deliver Pence to the WH, & that Trump will be eliminated”
God created the entire universe, and knows everything past, present and future, but apparently even He can’t make Pence president without some kind of magician’s trick.
trollhattan
@Immanentize:
Ah pity the fool!
Shana
@hovercraft: My dad used to do that with people calling trying to sell him gold. His record was stringing someone along for about 45 minutes. He was very proud of that. Of course he was at the end of his career as a solo practitioner architect in a small town so he wasn’t very busy, but still, you gotta admire the commitment.
Bill E Pilgrim
@PsiFighter37: That was weird for a moment because I read that as “Matthews”, who someone had just mentioned upthread. Wait, Tweety’s doing what now?
Kropadope
@MaryRC:
Well, Trump has done a lot of shitty things over the years. Perhaps God(TM) told Pence not to run just for the purpose of getting two birds with one stone.
Baud
@PPCLI: To be fair, the electoral college is a little confusing.
Redshift
There seems to be quite a lot of overlap between fundamentalists and conspiracy theorists, and that tweet about evangelicals have me an idea why – both are people who have a strong need for the world to make more sense than it actually does. In both cases, when it doesn’t (as when a really obviously ungodly person wins the nom from their “godly” movement), the divine conspiracy theory expands to encompass the contrary evidence.
Eric U.
we got a flyer for Clinton today aimed at moderate Republicans. My thought is that they just sent it to everyone in Pennsylvania, no matter who.
Immanentize
@trollhattan: So I always suspected you were Mr. T(rollhattan)
ETA to get the spelling right….
trollhattan
@Another Scott:
And yet Sheldon Adelson sits with checkbook open and pen in hand, wondering just what amount it’s gonna be this time. Nevada is awfully close to root for a comet but one is tempted.
eclare
@debbie: I read the plot and set the DVR, glad I did.
hellslittlestangel
I love this pundits’ notion that Pence is using the VP spot to position himself for a presidential run in 2020. Because that worked so well for Presidents Palin and Ryan.
vhh
@PsiFighter37: I’d much rather see Trump spend a couple of years try to con the Feds into building a sea wall to protect Mar a Lago from rising seas due to man-made global warming. I hope the bureaucrats he contacts insist that as a pre condition for giving him an appointment, he give a speech recognizing the importance of global warming. And then I hope they say “no federal dollars for you” so he has to pay for a beautiful wall himself.
ThresherK (GPad)
@Another Scott: okay, until I learn, I’ll call it The Silver State.
It isn’t ne Vah da, so is it ne Va da with a flat A?
PsiFighter37
@Immanentize: You do realize srv is a performance art troll and is not someone who is actively here trying to piss people off? It amazes me how many people don’t realize it. He/she is not like the troll who constantly screamed about UNLIMITED! CORPORATE! CASH! and loved Jeb!
redshirt
@hovercraft: Suggestions? I’d love for them to waste resources on me.
Speaking of: Emily Cain! I am going to vote for you! Stop sending giant glossies every other day!
Nom de Plume
@dmsilev:
“Neurotic God of Abraham and low-ratings Christianity think that ganging up on Trump will stop their slide into failure. Sad!”
Wally Ballou
Fantastic Syndergaard-Bumgarner duel in the NL Wild Card game tonight. 0-0 through 6.
PPCLI
@Baud: Very true. Tormenting Job, tempting Christ and designing the Electoral College system were three tasks God subcontracted out to Satan.
hovercraft
@MaryRC:
She knew that Trumps presence on this earth had run it’s course, and she wanted to give him a spectacular swan song before she drags him down to his new life as a rat in Mumbai. She just wants to give him a glimpse before he spends his next life as a rodent.
trollhattan
@Immanentize:
Price of gold puttin’ the hurt on my lifestyle, but otherwise I’m driving a bitchin’ van.
Redshift
@dmsilev: I doubt he’d care. The fact that these marks have a fantasy where he dies after he wins does not change the fact that they’re voting for him.
He’d probably mock them if he did know, though.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Considering it’s Mike Pence we’re talking about 2-d checkers would have sufficed.
Baud
@PPCLI:
I read that as Tormenting Jeb!
father pussbucket
Trump urges the terminally ill to hang on and vote for him.
Punchy
@MaryRC: So evangellys are kosher with their Sky Daddy assassinating a sitting President? Gunna be a really hard jury to seat when God goes on trial for Murder one. Maybe a plea bargain that gets him parole in exchange for 50 consecutive years of Dem leadership?
jl
Pence vodka is better than Trump vodka: much smoother, but just as horrible.
Might be a good play for Trump Enterprises, I hear their brand has taken some hard knocks recently.
Will be fun to see Trump make the pitch.
Jibeaux
@hovercraft:
Since Pence would almost certainly be leading this thing if he were first on the ticket, I can only conclude that God is a moron.
trollhattan
@ThresherK (GPad):
Yup, just like Sarah Palin would say it. Bonus tokens for bein’ all nasally.
Mary G
Kamala Harris and Loretta Sanchez are debating on ABC. I’m mostly watching the baseball game. but the few bits I’ve seen over commercial breaks are getting snippy fast.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
and that’s just the latest, and maybe longest lasting, of half a dozen or so incarnations
Immanentize
@PsiFighter37: I think you are thinking of Srv, not srv. But maybe you are right, the Cindy Sherman of blogging.
Kropadope
@father pussbucket: The first true thing he said this whole election season may well be “I don’t care how sick you are.”
He must know that the terminally ill are his natural base because they won’t have to live with the consequences of electing him.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
civil war
gogol's wife
@debbie:
I lol’ed multiple times. And I was only watching it for Daveed Diggs. It’s an enjoyable show.
trollhattan
@father pussbucket:
Holy sh….there truly is no depth he won’t plumb. Can’t wait for the first Trump hospice.
hovercraft
@redshirt:
Tell them you’re undecided and are trying to decide between Johnson and Trump, ask them for explanations of his positions on stuff you know he has no actual policy on. Ask them to bring you literature to help you decide.
jl
@Baud:
” I read that as Tormenting Jeb! ”
Don’t get carried away, Oh Mighty Baud. Have some mercy.
Omnes Omnibus
@Immanentize: srv has adopted various personae over the years – all designed to get a rise out of people. Trump supporter has gone on longer than most. Srv is parodying the parody troll. It starts getting awfully meta at that point.
Mike J
Who was the alt-righter who got kicked from twitter today? I keep seeing refs to it happening, but no backstory.
Mnemosyne
@ThresherK (GPad):
You realize that movie does take place in Indiana, right? More prophetic than you realized.
Immanentize
@Baud: my favorite all time passage from the bible is when Job’s wife, who has had quite enough of the devil/god’s punishment for self righteousness tells her husband, “Curse God and die.”
laura
@Wally Ballou: come on Gigantes!
Fingers crossed for Bummy.
ThresherK (GPad)
@trollhattan: When I want a nasal A I roll out my best Lina Lamont.
trollhattan
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Between the two I know who my money’s on.
“Hannity dead from stiletto wounds.” In this case red patent leather.
Immanentize
@Omnes Omnibus: Can I be srV?
Baud
@Immanentize: Are we sure she wasn’t saying “Baud”? Cuz it’s happened to me before.
Steeplejack (tablet)
@Another Scott:
Okay, help me out here. I even listened to the clip, and I don’t see how Trump’s pronunciation is really out there. What is the “other” way? He’s stressing the second syllable a little hard, but seemingly just to make his point (whatever it is). He seems well within the China/Jyna parameters.
Baud
@Immanentize: We are all srv now.
TriassicSands
From an article in the NY Times about newspaper endorsements for president:
Calling the WSJ editorial board “conservative-leaning.” That’s rich — a candidate for greatest understatement ever. Kind of like another candidate: “Trump is unfit to be president.”
Comrade Scrutinizer
@Mike J:
Phixed for you.
hovercraft
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I think this was in response to her interview with Kellyanne last night after the debate. Megan wouldn’t let Kellyann gish gallop, and Kellyanne started whining about it.
Bill E Pilgrim
Pence mentioned Reagan one too many times and God punished him for looking back, turning the top of his head into a pillar of salt.
sukabi
@redshirt: why wouldn’t you? Their approach seems to be to carpet bomb the entire world to the point of pissing off British Parliament, the French, ect…
Omnes Omnibus
@Immanentize: I ain’t in charge of this place. Do what you want.
amk
fundies – we will do it in the good old xian way. kill the middle man.
Immanentize
@Baud: or “Baud, Cursed by God”. By the way, not a bad slogan for your anti-Pence 2020 run!
redshirt
@hovercraft: I doubt they have anyone local to call.
SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch
@MaryRC:
God works in mysterious ways, yo.
Chris
@MaryRC:
Are you kidding? God had already way overbooked the primary. All those candidates that He told to run.
Immanentize
@Omnes Omnibus: Oh dear. If you’re not in charge, then who is?!
ThresherK (GPad)
@Mnemosyne: Are we talking different Lina Lamonts?
I mean Jean Hagen, who got an Oscar nom for playing, as Cosmo Brown said, “She can’t act, She can’t sing, She can’t dance: A triple threat!”
Mnemosyne
@Another Scott:
When I went to Nevada last weekend, they actually coached us in how to pronounce it before we went out to talk to voters.
Also, some people ran into workers at Trump’s hotel there and they said working conditions sucked. His reputation in Nevada was not good even before he started running for president.
Bill E Pilgrim
@Steeplejack (tablet): He’s saying “Nevahda” where the middle rhymes with “blah”, whereas anyone who lives there or even in California next door pronounces it “Nevada” with the middle rhyming with “waah” or “mad”.
Every time I hear some politician or news anchor calling it “Nevahhda” I think okay, never been there, I see. The fact that Trump was lecturing people on pronunciation while getting it backwards is just too perfectly Trump.
Omnes Omnibus
@Immanentize: Steve.
@Thing Three: WTF?
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Kropadope:
I concur. Pence resembles a befuddled Little League coach complaining about a clear call at second.
Villago Delenda Est
@Comrade Scrutinizer:
More fixing.
Chris
@Redshift:
Holy shit. Yes, totally!
Omnes Omnibus
@Villago Delenda Est: Not really fixed, now is it?
ETA: Never mind.
hovercraft
@Bill E Pilgrim:
Unfortunately both of Reagan’s sons have denounced Trump, even Michael the conservative one has said his mother if she was still alive would be voting for HRC. Ron has said the entire party is nothing like the party his father was a part of. Poppy is voting for Hillary, one of W’s twins, the single one attended a HRC fundraiser in Paris or London recently, and was outed on I think Instagram with a couple of celebrities. Donald is causing a major schism, but I have no pity for them, they used the rubes for years, and now the mob has taken over. You murder your parents and now want mercy, fuck you I hope you rot in your own muck.
Kropadope
@Bill E Pilgrim: What? Is Nev”ah”da too ethnic sounding for them?
BC in Illinois
Chris Matthews announced and maintained – – as totally true fact (all other viewpoints were merely “opinion”) – – that Pence won the debate, was the adult in the room, was more likable, and in all ways a winner.
Which raises the question: will the Trump campaign develop any ads using video of Pence in the debate? I would think not.
On the other hand, there are several videos already out there, on the pattern of . . .
Kaine: “Trump said X.”
Pence: “Trump NEVER said X.”
Followed by video footage of Trump (and sometime Trump and Pence), indeed saying X.
If the Clinton campaign shows footage of Pence as an argument for voting against Trump, and the Trump campaign never shows a picture of Pence again . . . then who won the debate?
Villago Delenda Est
@hovercraft: Steve Rogers and Tony Stark had a legit civil war going on. Hannity and Megan is more like an intramural nerf bat skirmish.
Villago Delenda Est
@BC in Illinois: Tweety is a fucktard who is decades past his sell by date.
Villago Delenda Est
@Omnes Omnibus: Yeah, missed a closing HTML tag. It got better.
Origuy
I think part of the Nevada pronunciation issue is just “not from here”, but I can’t help noticing that the “incorrect” way is the way you would say it in Spanish. At least some of the reaction that residents have comes from hearing Spanish-speakers say it that way.
Long-time Californian here. I hear both ways; not just referring to the state, but to the Sierra Nevada.
Lizzy L
So I’ve been pronouncing “Nevada” incorrectly all my life. Who knew? It’s not Nev-AH-da, with the “a” like the “a” in father. It’s with the “a” like the “a” in accident. Got it. (We say it differently in California.)
Why is Trump even in Nevada? Both Sam Wang and Nate Silver are showing Nevada blue, and the numbers look pretty good — not good like Oregon, but quite reasonable. I doubt a rally in Henderson is going to change those numbers.
Steeplejack (tablet)
@Immanentize:
The troll is srv; Srv is the new meta-troll trolling srv. Try to keep up.
Ditto shomi : Shomi.
Villago Delenda Est
@Chris: Yup. SOMEONE has to be in charge of the universe, even if they’re utterly evil. That is more comforting to them than the reality that no one is directing things.
Bill E Pilgrim
@Kropadope: Er, “them”? :) I grew up in Northern California and spent a lot of time in Reno and Lake Tahoe and everyone I ever heard say it in either state used the same pronunciation.
It’s the way it’s pronounced. Hearing people pronounce it in some weird way is just weird, like if whatever state you’re from were pronounced “New Yurk” or “Colorihdo”, or whatever, by someone. None of it has anything to do with ethnicity, as far as I ever imagined anyway.
amk
@hovercraft: Can we at last say now that raygun is finally dead?
Omnes Omnibus
@Lizzy L:
Rhetorical, right? He is dumb.
Villago Delenda Est
@Origuy: That’s my take on it too. Pronouncing it as you would in Spanish seems to set non-Hispanic Nevadans off.
Omnes Omnibus
@Bill E Pilgrim: Illinoise. I grate my teeth every time I hear it.
Steve in the ATL
@Steeplejack (tablet): so Srv:srv::Shomi!:shomi ?
Mnemosyne
@ThresherK (GPad):
I haz a confused. I thought we were talking about A Christmas Story.
Chris
@hovercraft:
This. The GOP establishment deserves everything it’s gotten this election cycle and more.
amk
@Lizzy L: prolly looking for new ways to bankrupt more ca$…ino$.
Steve in the ATL
@Omnes Omnibus: concur. And I hear too many people from flar-ih-duh say floor-ih-duh.
Barbara
@MaryRC: This way, they will know God’s goodness because they have been delivered from a potentially great evil, sort of like Noah and his family became much more grateful for creation after spending 40 days at sea on the Ark.
Comrade Scrutinizer
@Villago Delenda Est: Yours is more right. I think the guy Mike J was asking about was Ricky Vaughn, by the way.
The Lodger
@Bill E Pilgrim: Must be an East Coast thing. Billy Joel pronounces it the same way. (Wonder how the audience reacts when he sings “Stop in Nevada” in Nevada.)
Major Major Major Major
@Omnes Omnibus: but it’s such a good Sufjan Stevens album
Central Planning
@Lizzy L: Why is he in Nevada? Why did he run a spot in upstate NY during late night TV a few days ago?
Kropadope
@Bill E Pilgrim: Well, Origuy got a little more to the point.
SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch
@Omnes Omnibus:
Me too. And have you noticed that the people who say “Illinoise” also, invariably, say “tur-kwah.” Not to mention, “bedroom soot.”
Gin & Tonic
Heck of a ball game so far.
Prescott Cactus
@amk: He is dead, but the hate for him by air traffic controllers lives on and on.
Bill E Pilgrim
@The Lodger: Apparently it’s more widespread than I even realized. Interesting note in the first comment by the way, “NevAHda” isn’t the Spanish pronunciation either, as apparently some people think it is. Which I also didn’t realize. That people thought that.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Central Planning: Don’t know about Kellyanne FitzStepford, but I think a lot of people in her line of work get a cut for every ad their campaign buys.
TriassicSands
@Another Scott:
It’s always very distressing when the locals don’t know how to pronounce the name of where they live.
WereBear
@father pussbucket: okay. THIS is the end of satire.
Chris
@Lizzy L:
Is it actually incorrect, or is it just that people in different parts of the country pronounce it differently?
I mean, that nice Bostonian guy in the history documentaries, I kind of look at him funny when he starts talking about going to the moon in this duhcade and enforcing a quarantine around Cuber, but it’s not actually wrong, it’s just how he talks.
Comrade Scrutinizer
Am I alone in not really giving two fucks about an extended discussion of the pronunciation of Nevada?
The Lodger
@Bill E Pilgrim: You forgot Ory-gaaahn.
Mnemosyne
@Origuy:
FWIW, here in So Cal we also pronounce Los Feliz and San Pedro the non-Spanish way, so I think it’s largely a holdover from earlier times. People decided that’s how they were pronounced when there was a big post-WWII migration from the east, and that’s how they’ve stayed.
And don’t even get me started on how Chicagoans pronounce Goethe St. or how I grew up pronouncing “Des Plaines.” It’s a “foreign word” thing, not a specifically anti-Spanish thing.
Central Planning
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Everyone in on the grift wants a little for themselves.
trollhattan
@ThresherK (GPad):
Inspired choice. She would have made a vastly better “The Nanny”
Bill E Pilgrim
@Kropadope: Seems to be some disagreement about that being how you pronounce it in Spanish. I never heard anyone say it that way in 30 years in Calif and as I say, often a visitor to Nevada.
ThresherK (GPad)
@Mnemosyne: Nah, I switched midstream to Singin in the Rain for the diction lesson. My fault for having a beer on a weeknight.
Another Scott
@ThresherK (GPad): The VA is supposed to have an A like Apple. Pronouncing the 2nd syllable as Add supposedly is least likely to get one in trouble.
There was some interview with a woman around the time of the primary who had a funny rhyme about the pronunciation, but I can’t remember it nor find it.
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
The Lodger
@SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch: Tell me you weren’t referring to turquoise there.
Lizzy L
@Omnes Omnibus: Mostly rhetorical, yeah. I’m not sure that the rallies, wherever they’re held, serve much purpose now, except to let him think he’s winning. But that he’s holding a rally in Nevada and not, say, Ohio, confirms to me that he is nowhere near coming up with even a shadow of a ground game. Makes me very happy.
Mike J
@TriassicSands:
When I was doing a contract down there I was never able to get the locals to realise it’s pronounced how-stun, like the street SoHo is south of.
RaflW
@trollhattan: I’m … stumped as to how the hell we drive the lot from office.
We have to fund and build a party mechanism, and a base of dedicated voters to turn out for off year elections! GOP governors win in purple and even presidentially blue states because our folks don’t vote in big enough numbers when there isn’t a contest involving the White House.
I mean, Wisconsin has a democratic lesbian as a US Senator (yay!), yet also has Scott DeadEyes Walker as governor. WI hasn’t cast electoral college votes for a Republican since 1984, but managed to put idiot/jackass Ron Johnson in the Senate in an off year (Russ, I’m lookin’ to you to dispatch that moron!).
Now, how we build and fund an electoral machine and a compelling Democratic vision and narrative that gets off-year voters fired up? I dunno. But I’m interested in trying to help.
Villago Delenda Est
@The Lodger: True story. My parents (Dad grew up in Arkansas, Mom in Pennsylvania and Illinois) when they moved out to Oregon asked people in Eugene where “Wil-la-met” street was. The looks they got…
PPCLI
@hovercraft: I wish I could remember where I first read the wail of the establishment Republican in the age of the Trump revolution: “Who knew that after 50 years of dog whistles we’d be surrounded by so many dogs?”
Mnemosyne
@Bill E Pilgrim:
I couldn’t figure out how to indicate the right pronounciation, but one of the commenters on that article nailed it:
Omnes Omnibus
@SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch: I have not, but my experience with it was primary with kids I dealt with after moving from the Chicago area to Newtown, CT (I also get annoyed by people who call it Newton) during middle school. The kids who spoke that way tended to be the more bullying types towards new kids who played the violin but punched back when bullied.
sigaba
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I am an annoying dork for pointing this out, but people like Pence and Ted Cruz are not theocrats, they are accurately described as “theonomists.” A theocrat believes that religious clerics should hold rule the state, a theonomist believes that laypeople should rule but that the state should enforce religious law.
I think this is an important point to make because while there has never been an actual theocracy in America, theonomy was altogether common, even after the adoption of the Constituion; the Feds were always agnostic but state governments did not hesitate to establish churches, at least up through the 1830s.
Villago Delenda Est
@Central Planning: Why is he running ads on Colbert? I mean, seriously, WTF?
jl
@Mnemosyne: Ran across some visitors from the midwest who were lost south of Sacto one time. They wanted know if they were in San Joe Keen County yet.
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: “Pay-so Row-bulls”
sigaba
@Mnemosyne: People of Romance Language traditions would beg to differ. I always pronounce the “a” soft…
The word literally means “snowed” or “snowing” as in Sierra Nevada– The Snowy Mountains.
trollhattan
@Mnemosyne:
New, bigly Trump pronuciation: Nuh-Vlad-uh.
Steve in the ATL
@Mike J: savannah has the same problem. You have to explain that it’s named after lord how-stun, not Sam hyoo-stun. They totally love being told that.
Lyrebird
@Shana: They keep spending money to show me ads, HA!, here on BJ, on Raw Story, etc. Likely not much money, but I click on the ads now and again to string them along.
Mnemosyne
@sigaba:
If you’re going down to Los Angeles Harbor, are you going to “San PAY-dro” or “San PEE-dro”?
Villago Delenda Est
@Comrade Scrutinizer: Well, that twitter account has been suspended. No explanation as to why, but the Nazis are of course outraged that one of their own is facing the consequences of breaking the rules.
Omnes Omnibus
@Thing Three: Source? And I may be over-interpreting, but a number of your comments seem to, directly or indirectly, refer to Jews. What’s up with that? It makes the hair on back of my neck stand up, but I don’t want to make assumptions.
jl
@Villago Delenda Est: Why is Trump’s face in all my miserable letty blogs?
Edit: though I don’t remember him hanging around BJ blog for a while.
Major Major Major Major
@sigaba: yea, but we aren’t speaking one of those, now are we?
ETA: As a liberal, I believe that the residents of a place have the right to decide how it’s pronounced.
Mnemosyne
@sigaba:
Also, too, as I found out many years ago now, not everyone from a “Romance Language tradition” pronounces things the same way. A Spaniard, a Mexican, and an Argentinian do not have the same accent any more than an American, a Briton, and an Australian do.
The Lodger
@Villago Delenda Est: Half the place names out here in Oregon are pronounced in a way designed to filter out newcomers. For instance, the town I’m in right now is pronounced a-LOW-uh and spelled Aloha.
SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch
@The Lodger:
I would if I could but I can’t because I am.
smedley the uncertain
@srv: Android? hardly. Samsung perhaps…
jl
@Major Major Major Major: English is a bromance language? I’m confused.
BillinGlendaleCA
@jl:
I had to read that 4 times before I could figure out what it was supposed to mean.
Major Major Major Major
I see mister “what do we mean when we speak of rich cosmopolitan bloodsuckers” is back.
Another Scott
@Comrade Scrutinizer: Yes.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
:-)
I just thought it was funny that Donnie was trying to lecture Nevadans about how to pronounce the state name because there’s no up-side in doing so.
Cheers,
Scott.
BruceFromOhio
Desdemona, won’t you liberate me?
When I’m haunted by your ancient history
Close these green eyes and watch over as I sleep
Through my darkest of dreams
Villago Delenda Est
@The Lodger: True up north of the Columbia. Puyallup. Let’s see some noob pronounce that correctly without help!
sigaba
@Mnemosyne: San Paydro, siempre.
I’ll be straight up, I grew up in Minnesota and am almost as white as Mike Pence, but I feel a profound connection to the essentially Spanish nature of this place. We Anglos are just visiting.
Kropadope
@Bill E Pilgrim: I hear all sorts of funny pronunciations of towns around Massachusetts (Leominster, Haverhill, Cotuit, Worcester). I might occasionally hear something worth a small giggle, but I wouldn’t get too upset by people not pronouncing the vowels exactly as I do, as long as the basic structure of the word is intact. Goodness knows I’m not an authority on diction, the “er”s at the end of those I tend to pronounce somewhere between an “eh” and and “ah.”
Ceci n'est pas mon nym
@Steve in the ATL: Don’t know who Houston Street in NYC (the “Ho” on “SoHo”) is named after, but it is also properly pronounced “How-stun”.
Re: the important issues of the day, I’ve always said Nuh-VAH-duh, and I wasn’t aware there was a controversy on that. It would never have occurred to me to pronounce that middle syllable as “VADD” till reading this thread. And I’m not one of those who tries to affect a Spanish pronunciation of Spanish-derived names. “Nuh” is definitely an Americanization; the Spanish pronunciation is almost “Nay”.
BillinGlendaleCA
@smedley the uncertain: I have a Samsung Note Edge, it doesn’t burst into flames.
lamh36
off to bed…Good night BJ
I’ll leave ya with something for the BJ Hamilton-stans…if ya haven’t seen it already
@kylegriffin1
.@POTUS teams up with @Lin_Manuel, the cast of Hamilton and more to get you to vote:
The Lodger
@SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch: Oi.
Or perhaps, wah.
catclub
@Wally Ballou: through 8 now.
Giants have two on top of 9th
BillinGlendaleCA
@sigaba: It’s San PEEdro(LA native).
philadelphialawyer
@Bill E Pilgrim: No. Making a big deal about the allegedly “correct” pronunciation is clearly at least partly about being “American” instead of “Spanish.” It is NOT like, say, “Or-i-gun” versus “Or-i-gone,” where nobody really knows where the word came from, and all the locals says it the former way and only people who don’t know say it the latter way. “Nevada” (meaning snowy) is a Spanish word, and while, arguably, it is OK to anglicize it for the name of an American State, it is not “wrong” to say it the way you would in Spanish.
Unless you are trying to prove some “English only,” nativist, Know Nothing point, which is what the “right-wrong” thing is all about.
And, which, not surprisingly, fascist, White Nationalist Trump was trying to key into.
And which, also not surprisingly, he fucked up even on his own terms.
Another Scott
@Villago Delenda Est: I learned about things like that growing up in Cobb County, GA. There’s a county around Atlanta – DeKalb. It’s pronounced “DeCab” (like DeTaxi). That’s another one that trips up “foreigners”.
Cheers,
Scott.
Omnes Omnibus
@sigaba: I dated a girl from Versailles, Ohio, when I was in the army. My years of learning French caused my to mispronounce the town’s name. It is Versaylz. Within the US, we let locals define the pronunciation of their locality. Try going to DesPlaines, IL and pronouncing it as though French. Or emphasizing the first syllable of Berlin, WI.
sigaba
@Major Major Major Major: It’s debatable, the French conquered Britain once, though the Francoisms only took among the One Percent and some parvenu Mercians. (As in Mercia, March of Canterbury, not “Amur’ka”.)
As I mentioned to Mnemosyne, I grew up in Minnesota, and at some point a certain Lkotan drilled into my head the importance of place names and protecting their pronounciation as a matter of preserving meaning.
Villago Delenda Est
@philadelphialawyer: If you pronounce “Oregon” as they do in the closing theme to “Maverick”, you’re on solid ground.
Mnemosyne
@sigaba:
And thus everyone knows you’re a transplant, including the Spanish-speakers, because locals say “San Pee-dro” regardless of what their mother tongue is. That’s kind of the point here.
Bobby Thomson
Where the fuck has Brendan Nyhan been the last 36 years? Denying reality is firmly embedded in Republican DNA?
Origuy
The city of Vallejo, California is pronounced val LEY ho, using the English pronunciation of V and LL and the Spanish pronunciation of J. I’m not sure how General Vallejo would have pronounced it; he was a Californio. Modern day Mexicans would say ba YAY ho, but Castilians would say ba LYAY ho. (Approximately; the IPA rendition is [baˈʎexo]). Anyway, it’s a mixture.
Villago Delenda Est
@Omnes Omnibus:
That’s true for the name of the town I was born in: New Berlin, NY, upstate about 30 miles west of Cooperstown.
debbie
@gogol’s wife:
Ah, that’s who that was: the imaginary ex-husband!
sigaba
@BillinGlendaleCA: You people make me sick :). First week I came to LA my mom drove with 1070 AM on the radio because she was paranoid about traffic, and I remember hearing the announcer pronounce it THAT way and immediately thinking, “this pronounciation is suspicious and wrong.”
SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch
@Major Major Major Major:
Fucking A! I’m a big believer that people should be called what they want to be called, and names should be pronounced the way their owners wish them to be pronounced.
Case in point: my IRL name is Judith, although I was called “Judy” for most of my early years. About 45 years ago I decided I didn’t want to be called by the nickname any longer and let people know, politely but firmly, that I would prefer to be addressed/referred to as “Judith.” What was fascinating is that my real friends, the people who genuinely cared about me, made the shift very quickly, because they knew it was important to me. People who cared nothing about me said “Oh, I’ll never be able to remember that, it’s much too hard, you’ll always be Judy to me.” Told me so much.
philadelphialawyer
@Omnes Omnibus: Sorry, but local/schmocal. If you pronounce Versailles or Dubois the way you would in French, you are not wrong.
Ceci n'est pas mon nym
Here’s one that throws a lot of people, even some of those who live here in the Philly region: Newark, DE and Newark, NJ are not pronounced the same way. The second syllable of the NJ town is close to the word “work”. The second syllable of the DE town is a definite “Ah” sound, “wark” rhyming with “quark” or “stark”.
Bobby Thomson
@ThresherK (GPad): Nuh vad duh. Also, too, Collar add doh. Only carpetbaggers from the East use that ah syllable.
Villago Delenda Est
@SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch: I have a friend who is VERY insistent that he be addressed as “Stephen” not “Steve”. And yes, his actual friends have no problem with that, those who have just met him need to be corrected.
Origuy
I remember in the 60s sitcom Family Affair, Cissy, Jody and Buffy came from Terre Haute, Indiana to live with Uncle Bill. Only they pronounced it close to the French way, while locals said Tarra Hoet, as in hoe with a final T.
Steve in the ATL
@SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch: you’ll always be Judy at chili’s to me!
jl
@BillinGlendaleCA:
” I had to read that 4 times before I could figure out what it was supposed to mean. ”
I figured that was what usually happened when you read my comments… all these dang Eagle Rock people hanging around the comment section.
Mnemosyne
@sigaba:
Interesting factoid that blew my mind: ever wonder why farm animals have different names in English depending on whether they’re in the field or on your plate? Like how it’s “beef” if you buy it in a grocery store but a “cow” if it’s standing in a field? Or how chickens live in henhouses?
That’s a leftover from the Norman invasion. It doesn’t happen in Romance languages; in French, “boeuf” is “boeuf” whether it’s a cow in the field or a piece of beef on your plate. But in English, the French invaders used their words and the Anglo-Saxon invadees used theirs, so now there’s a split between the word for the live animal and the word for the meat from that animal.
sigaba
@Origuy: In Ecuador (and specifically Quito)it would be “va-zhay-ho”, the Ella is a disputed consonant.
Why do you suppose is Valleyho, but Aliso Vijejo is pronounced basically correctly?
Ceci n'est pas mon nym
@philadelphialawyer: That’s right, just because locals pronounce their own names a certain way doesn’t make them right.
SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch
@Another Scott:
Our real shibboleth is “Ponce de Leon.” If any part of it sounds remotely Spanish, you’re an imposter and a foreigner, and we want you to GTFO.
Mayim
@redshirt:
I’m in CD-2 as well and I haven’t gotten any Trump propaganda in the mail, although I have gotten several phone calls :-( Fortunately, I’ve never bothered to upgrade from the already paid for answering machine to voicemail so I can easily screen the calls.
It was interesting to drive down to the big city (Portland ~ grin) last week; every sign on Question 3 (Gun sale background checks) was no until I got to Gray and crossed the turnpike, after which the signs were all yes.
Saw my first several Johnson/Weld signs when I went into town today…..
Omnes Omnibus
@philadelphialawyer: No, I pronounced the name of the Parisian suburb/palace correctly. I mispronounced the Ohio town.
When you refer to the capitol city of France, do you pronounce the terminal “s”? I don’t unless I am speaking French.
hovercraft
@RaflW:
After seeing this, I’m not sure how we fix this if this poll is correct. I’ve been defending the young voters, accusing old white people of being responsible for getting Trump this close to the presidency. In their defense, against Trump they are solidly on our side, but if this is correct and these fuckers can’t even be bothered to find out who Mike Pence is, they deserve what they get.
YOUNG PEOPLE HATE HILLARY CLINTON SO MUCH THEY’D PICK MIKE FREAKING PENCE OVER HER
From Steve M
sigaba
@Mnemosyne: Something I always keep in mind is a rule from Orwell’s “Politics and the English Language.”
He says, specifically and in so many words, PREFER SAXON ROOTS and avoid Latinisms if you wish to be direct.
Bobby Thomson
@Bill E Pilgrim:
Belligerent ignorance is the American way. That’s how Trump got as far as he did.
Steve in the ATL
@sigaba:
Because shit is fucked up and bullshit
Major Major Major Major
@sigaba: It’s… not debatable. English is a Germanic language. It doesn’t matter how many fancy French words for meat you drape from the Germanic skeleton & joints, it’s still a Germanic language.
SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch
@Steve in the ATL:
“Judy at Chili’s” is someone I don’t even recognize! LOL for the picture, though!!
SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch
@Major Major Major Major:
Fuck you, Battle of Hastings. Fuck you and your Frenchy Norman invasion.
Jerzy Russian
@Comrade Scrutinizer:
Yes, you are the only one.
piratedan
@Mike J: that guy goes by the handle of Ricky Vaughn 99 (IIRC) and his claim to fame is that he is followed by and often retweeted by the Trump Progeny. Reputation of being a hard core dstributer of Alt-Right memes and one of the more despicable characters out there… Think Chuck C. Johnson (not the LGF guy), only creepier.
Bobby Thomson
@Origuy: That’s funny. My recollection is that Buffy pronounced it Terra Hut, which is something else altogether.
Mnemosyne
@sigaba:
So when you go to the grocery store, you ask them why they don’t have any cow? After all, beef is a Latinism and should be avoided.
The Lodger
@Ceci n’est pas mon nym: The town in Delaware used to be spelled New Ark, if that helps. Just remember to accent the first syllable.
Kind of like West Chester.
jonas
@MaryRC:
Those whom the gods wish to destroy, they first drive mad.
BillinGlendaleCA
@jl: I’m on the other side of Glendale from Eagle Rock, Griffith Park is my neighbor.
Omnes Omnibus
@SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch: Different for me. I made the same decision – to use my full first name – a while ago. Only good and longtime friends and family (except my mom, who always used the long form) tend to use the short one. Except assholes who, when I introduce myself with the full name, immediately shorten it.
sigaba
@Major Major Major Major: When it comes to Europe I think those categories are post-hoc and relics of 19th century European nationalism. English is a creole and while it lacks a lot of Germanisms (like lexical cases).
Steve in the ATL
@SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch:
My ATM code is 1066.
sigaba
@Mnemosyne: Have you read the Orwell essay? It’s very well done.
(Every word in this post has a Saxon root, except “Essay.”)
ETA: And “except.”
Mnemosyne
@hovercraft:
Meh.
(A) It’s not happening anyway. Pence is not the nominee.
(2) Nobody knows who the fuck Pence is. He’s “generic Republican” to most people right now.
Steve is getting his panties in a twist for no reason.
Prescott Cactus
@hovercraft:
Just down the street from Bob’s College of Car Fixing
Mnemosyne
@sigaba:
Don’t dodge the question. When you shop at the grocery store, do you buy cow or beef? Do you demand that the store manager re-label all of the packaging because Orwell said to?
English is full of foreign words that we pronounce our own way. It’s one of the things our language is most famous for doing.
SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch
@Villago Delenda Est:
I always ask when I meet someone new, and always go with the expressed preference. Some people much prefer the nickname (I guess a lot of folks hear the formal name and think “Uh oh, Mom’s mad at me!”) but in my case, “Judy” sounds like a peppy cheerleader and is just wrong for me. (I know other women my age or close to it with the same name, and “Judy” suits them just fine; I’m not judging at all.)
Major Major Major Major
@sigaba: English is a West Germanic language. The Germanic languages ‘devolved’ (so to speak) as they moved west. Like Frisian (its closest living relative) it bears only some of the marks of, say, actual German. It’s not a creole. It’s a Germanic language. This is especially clear if you look at Middle English.
That, or my undergrad owes me a refund on my degree in Germanic linguistics.
burnspbesq
Who the fuck is Conor Gillaspie?
Chris
@Mnemosyne:
This.
To me, it’s the right-wing equivalent of saying “oh but Bernie Sanders is polling so much better than Hillary Clinton…” Yes, and much of that would’ve evaporated as soon as he was in the eye of the storm. That’s much truer for Pence, who having sat out the primaries, is even less well known than Sanders.
jl
@BillinGlendaleCA:
” I’m on the other side of Glendale from Eagle Rock, Griffith Park is my neighbor. ”
Yeah, that’s what you tell the gulls here.
When I lived down there, people were very picky about the pronunciation. Not Glenn Dale, no, had to be Glahnnnndell. And of course, Eagle Rock, and Eggl’rock, after the French.
Edit: OTOH your general outlook is more La Crescenta-Montrose
SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch
@Steve in the ATL:
And All That.
Bobby Thomson
@Steve in the ATL:
That’s how it should be pronounced.
amk
#ODS is beautiful thing to watch. Effin’ karma.
Mnemosyne
@jl:
I think they gave that up years ago — I lived there from 2005 to 2014 and everyone said Glen Dale.
ETA: Also, too, IIRC Bill lives on the Glendale side of the railroad tracks, so more Atwater Village than Montrose.
jonas
@Mnemosyne:
Also, too, most folks, unless they’re political junkies, and not the kind with their tinfoiled heads up their asses listening to Infowars or something, have no clue that Pence basically lied his ass off the whole evening. “Boy, someone who can make frowny faces and shake his head like that every time the dorky Democrat guy says something must know something! What a genius!!”
bago
@Punchy: Yeah… There a bit of a theology fail 101 on that. Think “Only begotten son”. The old Abrahamic god is kind of known for murder. Abraham starts out by trying to murder his son and just settling on chopping all of the penises in his tribe.
Major Major Major Major
@burnspbesq: Hopefully not a cross between Conor Friedersdorf and Nick Gillespie.
sigaba
@Mnemosyne: I say beef but that’s not what the essay is about. It’s about avoiding euphemism and speaking clearly about what one thinks.
The answer to your question is I say “cow” because I’m a vegetarian and I don’t buy that stuff at a grocery store– and I’m serious, my realization of the language politics was a major reason I became one.
ETA: I have English and Spanish and Russian (and a little French and German) and ALL these languages maim loanwords, English isn’t special in this way. The things about English is that its caseless and its grammar tolerates loanwords more easily, because it uses prepositions instead of declension.
normal liberal
@SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch:
Okay, what is “tur-kwah”? And as a native of Illinois, I share the horror regarding the all-the-consonants people.
I knew east coast types in college who had never learned to distinguish between Illinois and Indiana. Which was an insult, although an unintended one. I think.
Omnes Omnibus
@Major Major Major Major: No, it is a hybrid language. It took elements of Norman French, which was different from standard French because Normandy existed due to viking invasion and conquest, and mixed it with Anglo-Saxon. French plays a bigger part in the grammar than you are allowing credit for.
hovercraft
@efgoldman:
Snake right? I guess it’s fitting that the snake comes back as one of it’s main food sources.
BillinGlendaleCA
@jl:
@Mnemosyne: I lived in Montrose for 19 years.
Mnemosyne
@sigaba:
Which is a totally different topic, you know.
Sorry, but the only possible response to that is from MST3K: “What is it with you and the French?”
The Ancient Randonneur
@burnspbesq: The guy who made sure MadBum was in a position to win a complete game shutout.
Major Major Major Major
@Omnes Omnibus: While your history is accurate, your conclusion is not true. English is a Germanic language. It has romance aspects, but at the end of the day we’re speaking a kind of coastal Dutch that came down with a bad case of the Norman conquest.
ETA: I’ll grant you that it’s close-ish, but still comes down on the Germanic side of things.
sigaba
@Mnemosyne: You will have to cite the MST3K episode. As a Minnesotan I of course have every Comedy Central ep committed to mnemosyne.
Villago Delenda Est
@Bobby Thomson: After electing a Medicare fraudster to the Governor’s mansion not just once, but twice, the “DUH” needs emphasis.
Mnemosyne
@sigaba:
Hang on, I’m trying to find a clip that’s less than 10 minutes long. It’s from Santa Claus.
ETA: Here we go. At 2:25.
Omnes Omnibus
@Major Major Major Major: Do we end our sentences with the verb?
ETA: And I said hybrid. It may be more Germanic, but the French influence isn’t just adopting a bunch of words.
Emma
@Major Major Major Major: Actually English is what happened when an Angle, a Saxon, a Norman, and a couple of Celts got blind drunk in a Roman tavern. (Ed) And then tried to pick a fight with a Viking.
I love it.
sigaba
@Major Major Major Major: At “the end of the day” were all dead. The “Germanic” designation of the English Language is political.
Villago Delenda Est
@Major Major Major Major: I’m by no means a linguist, but I’ve always understood that there are a relative handful of nouns that give you the true origin of a language, and while German and English have grown far apart over the centuries, Vater and Father, Mutter and Mother, Sohn and Son, Tochter and Daughter, Und and and, Ja and Yes, etc.
normal liberal
@Mnemosyne:
Illinois is awash in places with badly mangled names of foreign origin. Imagine how the common clay of central Illinois pronounce Creve Couer, a benighted burg near Peoria.
Villago Delenda Est
@Omnes Omnibus: My German teacher in HS used to like to joke that German is a language that is all about fighting to be the last word in the sentence. Verbs often, but not always, win the fight.
sigaba
@Mnemosyne: “Santa Claus” or “Santa Claus Conquers the Martians”? You can link to timecodes in a YouTube with the contextual menu.
sigaba
WHY ARE WE AT 266 ON THIS THREAD?
I’m at the bar what’s your excuse?
hovercraft
@Mnemosyne:
I hope you are right. My concern is that so many of them are currently supporting Gary Johnson, who apart from weed is a pretty standard republican. Even if they are voicing a protest about Bernie not winning, they are still highly resistant to Hillary. I will worry till hopefully 11.00pm EST November 8 th.
@Prescott Cactus:
Fairleigh Dickinson University is one of our finest institutions of higher learning, right up there with Union College and Middlesex County College.
Major Major Major Major
@Villago Delenda Est: That’ll often tell you where the guts of a language come from, yes. Ahem.
@Omnes Omnibus: We can. We don’t have to. The verb can go in many different places, though the way it generally falls in the second place is very Germanic. Why do you ask?
Mnemosyne
@sigaba:
Okay, here’s an attempt with the timecode link.
Omnes Omnibus
@Villago Delenda Est: Pater/Vater/Father. Latin/German/English.
sigaba
@Villago Delenda Est: Verbs, not always, but in the fight, win.
sigaba
@Mnemosyne: That worked.
Omnes Omnibus
@Emma: Works for me.
NoraLenderbee
I’m waiting for shomi to show up.
BillinGlendaleCA
@hovercraft: Obviously Trump would have nothing to do with Middlesex, only the best sex for him.
sigaba
@Emma: What about the Picts?
My English teacher in AP Brit Lit had a whole spiel about the Picts, and how even their place names were obliterated by the Jutes.
redshirt
@Mayim:
Are you me?
I made my first visit to Portland proper in several months today, and I did a double take when I saw a bunch of “Yes on 3” signs, as I’d never seen one before, and rather have seen hundreds of “No on 3” signs instead. I also saw a handful of Stein/Baraka(?) signs, which was amusing.
I’ve seen 3 Johnson/Weld signs in CD-2, which beats the number of Clinton/Kaine signs I’ve seen (2). Heck, I still see more Bernie signs.
Portland has the wonderfully named Pious Ali running for city council, which is awesome.
sigaba
@BillinGlendaleCA: I HAVE THE SNEAKING SUSPICION THE ONLY SEX TRUMP GETS IS MIDDLESEX.
redshirt
@NoraLenderbee: Way to be wrong!
Omnes Omnibus
@Major Major Major Major: In my view, it tends to indicate Germanic.
Major Major Major Major
@Omnes Omnibus: The/[der/die/das]/[el/la]. Go/gehen/aller. Eat/essen/manger. Drink/trinken/boire.
ETA: @Omnes Omnibus: yeah, verb second is suuuuuper Germanic. That’s a pretty rare word order.
sigaba
@Omnes Omnibus:
“ETA: And I said hybrid. It may be more Germanic, but the French influence isn’t just adopting a bunch of words.”
Don’t make me get all Levi-Strauss, but even adopting words is parole and langue.
BillinGlendaleCA
@sigaba: I think that’s an average, he thinks it’s the best and his partner finds it, well lacking.
Emma
@sigaba: Except for a few place names and personal names in monuments we don’t have much of Pictish. The current favorite theory is that it was an Insular Celtic language similar to Brittonic. So maybe one of those Celts in the tavern had a Pictish ancestor?
burnspbesq
This looks like the definitive explanation of Trump’s $916 million NOL.
http://www.taxanalysts.org/content/news-analysis-donalds-double-dip
redshirt
I lived a couple of years in a town in Maine named “Vienna”, and as I was harshly corrected at the Post Office, it’s pronounced VI-en-NAH
Prescott Cactus
@hovercraft:
Fairleigh Dickinson University
Out-of-state tuition: 35,880 USD
Noted alum: Margaret Ellen “Peggy” Noonan
Mascot: Nitro the Knight
Graduation rate: 47.3%
Pass.
Major Major Major Major
Jay-sus. I had an argument this morning about Hindi and Urdu that was less contentious.
The Ancient Randonneur
@sigaba: His wives probably got MICROSEX.
hovercraft
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Our sex is the very best that Jersey has to offer.
sigaba
@BillinGlendaleCA: If the sex is bad at least you leave them with a story.
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
My Google-fu is failing me, but I thought there was a book that came out fairly recently about the guy who decided that English should use French grammar and basically shoehorned English into that mold. That’s why you’re not supposed to use a preposition at the end of a sentence: it actually works just fine and sounds natural in a Germanic-rooted language like English, but French doesn’t do it, so this guy decreed that you’re supposed to restructure the sentence to avoid it.
Felonius Monk
@Omnes Omnibus: In case you did not see someone’s earlier warning directed to you, under no circumstances are you to check soonergrunt’s Twitter account (@soonergrunt). It’s for your own good.
Omnes Omnibus
@sigaba: I posit that English speakers also largely adopted the more flexible French grammatical structure.
patroclus
Well, I’ve always been a NeVAHda guy, but I’ve always pronounced Amarillo like a Texan, Colorado like a Texan, New Mexico like a Texan, De Leon like a Texan and El Paso like a Texan. So I suppose I should switch on the name of the state. But the Sierra Nevada will stay the same.
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: Oh yeah, that guy. Tosser.
Have any of you read The Professor and the Madman about the guy who did the first OED?
ETA: @Omnes Omnibus: West Germanic languages are already pretty flexible. Certainly much more so than high German.
Villago Delenda Est
@Omnes Omnibus: That’s the Indo-European connection. But German/English pronounces it as an F, not a P, which is the break right there.
sigaba
@efgoldman: I side with Rabbi Schneerson.
Mike J
@Major Major Major Major:
Hans isn’t here, man.
Major Major Major Major
@Villago Delenda Est: Grimm’s Law FTW!!
Mnemosyne
@Felonius Monk:
I actually got to tour the creature shop of the Chiodo Brothers, the company that made that movie. It was pretty cool. They also did the marionettes for Team America: World Police.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Felonius Monk: I’ll take that as a warning to me as well.
sigaba
@Omnes Omnibus: That’s absolutely true, English’s grammatical structure is French, though it is lowest common denominator of Saxon, Norman and Old High German.
Xenos
@Kropadope: it s a Spanish word, so I suppose it should be pronounced in accordance with Spanish.
But I would not suggest going to Illinois and pronouncing that state in the fashion intended by the French explorers that gave the territory it’s name and spelling. People would think you are nuts.
hovercraft
@Prescott Cactus:
I resent that comment, why must every one look down on us, just because our numbers suck doesn’t mean we are not great. Stop treating us like we’re the flyover/drivethrough country of the Northeast, we have nice things in Jersey. NYC and Philly are nice, but dammit so are we!!
Omnes Omnibus
@Felonius Monk: That is simply a dare. I am logging in to Twitter now. I may freak out and never come back.
ETA: Can’t sleep. Clowns will eat me.
Felonius Monk
@BillinGlendaleCA: My error. Yes, I should have included you. I will try to do better next time.
BTW, I really enjoy your photography.
Citizen Alan
@Mnemosyne:
“But in English, the French invaders used their words and the Anglo-Saxon invadees used theirs, so now there’s a split between the word for the live animal and the word for the meat from that animal.”
IIRC, it has more to do with the fact that French was the court language for England post-invasion. The people who killed the cow were English peasants. The people who ate the cow were French-speaking Normans.
redshirt
@efgoldman: There must be at least 10,000 “Jews for Jesus” nationwide, I’d guess.
BillinGlendaleCA
@hovercraft: I took a train though Jersey, I remain unconvinced. I remember crossing the bridge into Trenton and seeing a sign “Trenton makes the World Takes” and about 5 minutes later seeing the American Standard factory.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Felonius Monk: Thanks much.
Xenos
Lol@Major Major Major Major: I am studying a Frankish dialect right now. It is much closer to the English of Chaucer than to modern German.
Felonius Monk
@Omnes Omnibus:
Most Clowns are vegetarians. Except for Trump and Pence.
Major Major Major Major
@Citizen Alan: You do find much of this split as well, with the synonyms we consider high-brow to be the French-derived.
@sigaba: English’s core grammatical structure is West Germanic. Verb second, adjective before noun… ETA: strong central vowel inflection…
ETA: a strong preference for putting the stress on the first syllable of a two-syllable word
Mnemosyne
@Citizen Alan:
That’s where I was trying to go with it, but I got a little tangled up. Eventually, the French-speaking Norman aristocrats and English-speaking peasants merged into speaking a single language, but the dual nouns remained.
Kropadope
@Xenos: Good thing I don’t know the first thing about French pronunciation, I suppose.
Omnes Omnibus
@Felonius Monk: Bullshit.
Peale
@Felonius Monk: the thought of the puts scared Omnes into a vegetative state. So you’re not helping. It would be better if he were merely petrified by them, but no. He’s got to take it one step further
Lizzy L
@burnspbesq:
Fitzgerald: “The rich are different from you and me.”
Hemingway: “Yes, they have more money.”
And better accountants.
Kropadope
@hovercraft: Isn’t New Jersey one of the richest states in the country?
Ian
@MaryRC:
The Great One is busy fulfilling the lives and dreams of the goldfish recently born into space. Why would he/she/it/they be bothered with such otherwise trivial b.s.?
James E Powell
@sigaba:
The Normans were a lot of things, but they were definitely not “the French” – More like French speaking Vikings.
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
I want to say I originally saw it in a Miss Manners column, of all places, but there is apparently a whole class thing with word usage, but not necessarily in the way you’d think. It was the aspiring middle classes in England that would use words like “serviette” to sound more sophisticated, while the English aristocrats kept using plain old English “napkins.” Fancier-sounding words were actually a lower-class marker. Think Hyacinth Bucket.
Xenos
@Kropadope: Try saying “Ill-in-wah”. It rhymes with the native American nation of “I-ro-kwah”.
Major Major Major Major
One of my favorite German things that English doesn’t have is ‘fressen’. ‘Essen’ is ‘to eat’, and ‘fressen’ is ‘to eat’ but for animals. If you say that a person ‘frißt’ it’s very mean. But there are people who frißt. Trump probably does.
sigaba
@James E Powell: The question of what a Frenchman “is” wasn’t really settled until after the Norman Conquest…
Omnes Omnibus
@James E Powell: Sign on. William the Conqueror was a Viking warlord who had simply been in France long enough to adopt the language.
hovercraft
@BillinGlendaleCA:
The nicest parts of the state are of course the Shore, Southern, Northern and Western Jersey. The corridor that the train runs through is pretty densely populated whereas those other areas I mentioned tend to be more rural and lightly populated. So on the train you are seeing the worst of Jersey, and Trenton is horrible. We are the most densely populated state in the nation and the train reflects those parts. And it’s also the smelliest parts.
Mnemosyne
@Xenos:
Too late, we’ve already established that, like Tom Servo, he hates the French.
sigaba
@Omnes Omnibus: In other words, he was in France long enough to become French. Eisenhower was a German warlord in the US long enough to become English. William was like third generation French.
Origuy
@Bobby Thomson: Now that you mention it, I think that’s how they had it. French would be something like tere ot. Anyway, everyone in Indiana and southeast Illinois knew it was wrong.
Modern English is in some part a creole of Anglo-Saxon and Old Danish. While the nobles were speaking Norman French, the common folk polished off the Germanic inflections to get a simplified grammar so that they could communication along the borders of the Danelaw. No one was writing this down for a few centuries, so we don’t know the details.
amk
Great, on top of spelling natzees, we are now infested with telling natzees.
Omnes Omnibus
@hovercraft: I’ve been to Princeton. It was nice.
Prescott Cactus
@Dearest hovercraft: Just the facts! I had never heard of Fairleigh Dickinson University before tonight. Rather than being a shining beacon of knowledge and enlightenment, it looks like a mediocre community college with high tuition rates and < 50/50 of getting a sheepskin.
@hovercraft:
Fixed that for you
ETA: How do you like those apples ?
Jibeaux
So how is Missouri pronounced? And is the Triangle of NC going to have a meetup? Price of entry being a donation, volunteering, or registering a voter?
Steve in the ATL
@Omnes Omnibus:
I went to law school there.
Steve in the ATL
@Jibeaux:
Misery
sigaba
@Jibeaux: Missouri exists, literally, because the senate didn’t want Iowa to have two Free State votes without opposition. Missouri is correctly pronounced “Not Arkansas.”
hovercraft
@Omnes Omnibus:
Shh. Your fear is spreading. Both kids in the last two days have expressed concerns about the clowns roaming the nation. As I mentioned yesterday my 13 year old asked for a pocket knife, to day the 10 year old asked if they could be banned. These are not viable solutions, you must all gird your loins and confront your fears, you are scaring the children.
Omnes Omnibus
@sigaba: He was born in France. His people’s culture remained largely viking but French speaking.
Omnes Omnibus
@Steve in the ATL: Ha!
Jibeaux
I have a fun local town, Conetoe. All guesses are welcome.
redshirt
@hovercraft: I’ve been lightly digging into finding the origin of this recent clown madness.
One rumor says it started as viral marketing for the upcoming IT series. Not yet confirmed.
Ian
@Jibeaux:
The polling of both 2012 and 2016 is amazingly stable. How do you reach the conclusion that Pence would outperform Rmoney or Drumpf? The reality is the cake is baked, and most voters will vote partisan lines.
divF
@Major Major Major Major:
Then there are the borderline cases.
Steeplejack
@Bill E Pilgrim, @Origuy, @Lizzy L:
Interesting. I spend about a month every year in Las Vegas—my mother and a brother live there—and I’ve noticed the different pronunciations, “Ne-vah-da” and “Ne-vadd-a,” but I thought they were just normal variations, not that the former was some heinous marker of outlander status. I called my old college friend who has lived in Las Vegas for 18 years to get her take, and she said that “Ne-vah-da” does set off the natives, especially the white ones, and that “Ne-vadd-a” is near-universal. I asked her how Latinos in Nevada pronounce it—she is a middle-school teacher with a lot of Latino students, parents and coworkers—and that gave her pause. She said she would have to research that, “not that their opinion would matter anyway.” (Joke! She’s a strong Democrat libtard.)
From there we digressed into a discussion about various place-names in Nevada and California and how they’ve been Anglicized, and she offered the tidbit that her Latino students and parents almost universally refer to California as “Cali.” Go figure.
I told her I would put a Post-It on my bathroom mirror and practice “Ne-vadd-a” every day before I go out there in January. Live and learn.
BillinGlendaleCA
@hovercraft: I saw on the news the other night that the clowns have invaded LA county, your children are correct. Finding clowns frightening is a nature state.
sigaba
@Omnes Omnibus: Just as Los Angeles is strikingly Mexican culturally but English-speaking.
hovercraft
@Kropadope:
Yes we are, most of Northern Jersey is inhabited by people who work in the City. When celebrities, Wall Streeters and athletes decide to move out of Manhattan they move here or Westchester, they have summer houses out on Long Island. We are close and easy to get to.
SFAW
@Ceci n’est pas mon nym:
Actually, Nerk only has only syllable.
Steeplejack
@Steve in the ATL:
Yes.
scav
@sigaba: I’m rather wrestling with the fact that the whole feudal system William the C rather forcibly introduced was just bog-standard Viking with a thin veneer of French language.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Ian: Pence is a creationist, a hardcore Christianist, a long time advocate of privatizing social security, famously made a fool of himself with his anti-gay law, a free-trade advocate.. I also too don’t buy this “he’d be winning” thing.
@redshirt: first one I heard of was a guy in Chicago getting dressed up at night and standing by the gates of a cemetery, waving to passing traffic. Seems to me that was well over a year ago.
sigaba
Hey anybody watching the (ahem) “Cali” senate debate? They’re both Democrats and I’m probably voting for Sanchez but…
sigaba
@scav: Did the Normans win the war for Britain or did they lose the war for France?
divF
@Steeplejack:
IIRC, in Godfather II, Sen. Geary pronounced it “Ne-vadd-a”, and Michael pronounced it “Ne-vah-da”. Consistent with the insider / outsider status.
SFAW
@burnspbesq:
He’s the guy who helped Jeurys Familia do his best Armando Benitez impression.
Fuck.
randy khan
@hovercraft:
If Clinton were running against Mike Pence, we’d be seeing a lot of ads about how terrible Mike Pence is. I don’t think his views on LGBT issues would go over very well with the youngs.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Steeplejack: That’s how we can tell foreigners and recent transplants here in California, NOBODY here calls the state ‘cali’. Now, there’s Norcal, and Socal, no cali.
Major Major Major Major
@sigaba: It’s pronounced Kah-lee, like from Game of Thrones, right?
No, I’m not, but might I ask why Sanchez? I find her too chummy with the enemy. Not a huge Harris fan but I think Sanchez is too conservative for this type of seat-for-life opening.
Omnes Omnibus
@sigaba: Over how many years do you want to cover?
Jibeaux
@Ian: well, I’ve heard pundity types say that it should be a favorable R year…economy good but not great, the right track-wrong track stufd, HRC considerably less popular than Obama, and the fact that we’ve had a D president for 8 years and ppl like to switch things up. It’s basically my argument that Pence could be a generic or “replacement value” Republican, and polling from back in the day suggested that a generic Republican would do quite well. But it’s all guesswork, since no one actually is a generic Republican.
Chris
@sigaba:
I find it funny that the largest city in the state is named after a different state.
redshirt
@Jibeaux: Lots of actual geriatric Republicans though.
sigaba
@randy khan: Pence is known to be a weirdo who can make a good argument insofar as the medium resembles talk radio, but on one-on-one and the Internet he comes off as an uninformed idiot.
He’s a creature of 90s-early aughts conservative talk radio and embodies those strengths and weaknesses, the only reason he’s competitive is becaus the establishment media still thinks the Limbaugh format is relevant.
hovercraft
@hovercraft:
BillinGlendaleCA
@Major Major Major Major: Sanchez has been chummy with Issa as of late, I’m voting for Harris(I probably would have anyway).
Chris
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Wasn’t “Generic Republican” polling well ahead of pretty much every actual Republican candidate? People like Republicans in theory, but it’s getting harder and harder to make them likable in practice. At the national level, at least.
sigaba
@Chris: I almost wrote “Not Kansas” but it seemed too obvious.
Omnes Omnibus
@sigaba: He lied. And was caught lying.
Another Scott
@SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch: Indeed! I’d forgotten that. Thanks.
So many weird things about Atlanta. The 37-ish variations of “Peachtree” (Street, Road, NW, etc., etc.).
Do they still have the “Pink Pigs”? In the late ’60s, my dad would take us there to ride it around Christmas when it was on top of the downtown Rich’s store (bought out by Macy’s long ago).
Cheers,
Scott.
Lizzy L
I’m looking forward to the Mike Pence-Ted Cruz cage fight.
petesh
@Major Major Major Major: No, no Conor Gillaspie may come from a long line of semi-literates but he himself is a fine, upstanding, young athlete who right now would get free drinks at any bar in San Francisco.
Chris
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Do locals say Frisco, or is that an outsider/transplant thing too?
(Only major city I’ve ever been to in “Cali.” Loved it, but it was only a few days and so long ago I don’t remember that little detail).
sigaba
@Omnes Omnibus: Indeed. His flaws on the Internet aren’t decisive but I don’t think he’s going to be the force in 2020 people presume he will be.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Lizzy L: I’m looking forward to Paul Ryan looking extra sad as he watches Bill Kristol and Ron Fournier pretend not to see him as they run toward Ben Sassè
Kropadope
@Steeplejack:
That’s going to be a harder switch for me to make personally than when I found out Oregon was pronounced more like organ than ore uh gone. For whatever reason, that change was like flipping a switch for me.
redshirt
@Lizzy L: I can’t wait for that 2020 (Jesus really? 2020?!) deep bench of Republicans.
Steeplejack
@Bill E Pilgrim:
That comment is complete bullshit, by the way. I have a middling knowledge of Spanish. The Spanish letter e is pronounced like a long a in English; the Spanish letter a is pronounced like ah in English. So “Nay-vah-dah” would be a very close rendering of the Spanish pronunciation, which is darn close to “NevAHda.”
From reading the article you linked and the Wikipedia article on Nevada, I have to say the “Nev-add-a” pronunciation sure seems like some slightly nervous Anglo appropriation and pushback.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Chris:
Nobody from the bay area do(they usually call it ‘The City’), we do in Socal to annoy folk from the bay area.
SFAW
@randy khan:
But e-mail and servers and Wall Street!
sigaba
@BillinGlendaleCA: @BillinGlendaleCA: Sanchez took down Bob Dornan, for this she has eternal respect.
BillinGlendaleCA
@redshirt: Rest assured, they’ve have really
deep benchklown kar.Omnes Omnibus
@Steeplejack: How do the residents of the state pronounce it?
Major Major Major Major
@Chris: Nobody says frisco.
ETA: except bill.
sigaba
@Chris: I call it “The conurbation surrounding Chinatown,” but that confuses people.
BillinGlendaleCA
@sigaba: I’m thinking of ‘what have you done for me lately’.
Omnes Omnibus
@Omnes Omnibus: I don’t fight with origins and in French it should be… Or the German is…….
Mnemosyne
@Steeplejack:
AFAIK, it’s been pronounced “Nev-add-a” by the locals for at least 30 years of my personal knowledge as someone who lives in a state that borders it. How people outside of the state pronounce it is a different question.
And, also AFAIK, the mountains are usually called the Sierra NevAHdas. Just one of those regional oddities.
ETA: As someone who grew up in Illinois, not Illinoise, I am extra sensitive to local pronunciations. Only idiots pronounce the “S.”
Major Major Major Major
@sigaba: it’s “the city by the estuary” to me
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Mnemosyne: I’ve ordered the beer both ways, and never had a problem
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne: I see no issue with the mountains and the state being pronounced differently.
Lizzy L
@Chris: No one says “Frisco” except people who don’t live here. It’s a tell.
Chris
@BillinGlendaleCA:
That oughta keep a few New Yawker tourists properly befuddled.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Chris:
We Golden Staters like it that way.
redshirt
When the lights go down in the City,
and the sun shines on the bay….
hovercraft
@Omnes Omnibus:
I recommend you watch last nights Colbert, he had a segment on clowns, apparently there have been sightings in AL, GA, NJ, and MD.
Chris
@Lizzy L:
I looked the word up on Wiktionary. It yielded this delightful quote from 1872:
“Whoever after due and proper warning shall be heard to utter the abominable word ‘Frisco,’ which has no linguistic or other warrant, shall be deemed guilty of a High Misdemeanor, and shall pay into the Imperial Treasury as penalty the sum of twenty five dollars.”
– Joshua Abraham Norton, San Francisco resident and also self-proclaimed Emperor of the United States and Protector of Mexico.
BillinGlendaleCA
@hovercraft: CA too.
hovercraft
@Chris:
Not befuddled, we know wannabees when we see em. There’s only one City.
Omnes Omnibus
@hovercraft: You are a bad person.
BillinGlendaleCA
@hovercraft: Yup, Rome.
Lizzy L
@Chris: Okay then. We take the Emperor Norton’s pronouncements very seriously. I wonder what that fine would be in today’s dollars…?
sigaba
@Chris: I just remember “Frisco” as being a rather caloric breakfast sandwich once being sold by Hardee’s, now a division of Carl’s Jr. I’ve never known a respectable person to refer to the city by that word. I accept the ukase of Emperor Norton.
Villago Delenda Est
@Chris: My late aunt, who lived in Westchester County, NY, always referred to that big urban area to the south as “The City” but it implied, further, Manhattan…midtown, to be specific. In London, “The City” is the very heart of the conurbation, and is the British equivalent of “Wall Street”.
Major Major Major Major
@Lizzy L: He had such crazy ideas. A bridge connecting SF to Oakland. Some sort of ‘united’ ‘nations’.
Lizzy L
@BillinGlendaleCA: Or possibly Baghdad.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Villago Delenda Est: Well, with London there is a reason for the differentiation. The City of London is one square mile, London is much larger.
Mnemosyne
@Lizzy L:
Emperor Norton was a pretty interesting guy. I was hoping that the Neil Gaiman Sandman story about him was online, but copyright law prevents it.
redshirt
@Major Major Major Major: Have you ever read Gaiman’s take on the Emperor in the Sandman series?
BillinGlendaleCA
@Lizzy L: Rome is the eternal city.
hovercraft
@Omnes Omnibus:
I’m just trying to get you acclimated to our new world where our overlords will be clowns.
divF
@BillinGlendaleCA:
@Chris:
(Actually, Frisco is an ugly and vile locution).
BillinGlendaleCA
@Major Major Major Major: He was ‘cray, cray’.
BillinGlendaleCA
@hovercraft: Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.
polyorchnid octopunch
@Jibeaux: Misery.
Mayim
@Villago Delenda Est:
I am a linguist (well, I have an M.A. in linguistics….) and I’m pretty sure English is a Germanic language. I focused more on Asian languages but the principles of change cross language families ;-)
Yes, English has a fairly heavy Romance vocabulary overlay, but if you look at the whole history of the language ~ the Germanic family placement is obvious. I’m currently playing along at home with a Frisian MOOC and it’s fascinating the similarities.
Mike E
My local news site: “After testy VP debate, Trump rebuffs claim he ‘loves’ Putin”. LBJ would be so proud, and per raven, fuck LBJ!
Major Major Major Major
@redshirt: Not yet, but it’s on my radar.
redshirt
@Major Major Major Major: The whole series or just that story?
Chris
@hovercraft:
As long as Mark Hamill does the voice. He remains the only true Clown Prince of Gotham.
@divF:
Ah. I was not aware of any unfortunate implications in the word, sorry.
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Yeah, but I love the fact that the San Francisco population pretty much humored him and played along with him. Kind of like the Queen of England, no power at all, but (or maybe “therefore”) beloved of the population as a sort of mascot.
hovercraft
@BillinGlendaleCA:
The Eternal City
@Villago Delenda Est:
The City in London is an area, not the city it’s self
NYC is THE City, all other are pretenders, just accept it. Oh and if you don’t fuck you who gives a shit what you think.
EDIT: NY attittuuude
Goodnight
Major Major Major Major
@Mayim: If you get a chance and are interested in this sort of thing, the Old Saxon ‘version’ of the new testament is one of the most fascinating cultural artifacts I’ve ever read.
ETA: @redshirt: the whole series; i know, i know.
Mayim
@redshirt:
Yeah, I hadn’t seen any yes signs before that drive either.
My general feeling is that I vote for the side that has fewer signs in my local area :-(
Mike E
Also: Everywhere it’s Appalachia (apple A cha) but in Boone, NC it’s “apple atch inn” State
redshirt
@Mayim: It helps me figure out who not to vote for at the local level if the wingnut puts up a Trump or a Poliquin or a “No on 3” sign. Then I know any other sign on his property is to be avoided. No research required.
I know the numbers from CD-2 look grim, but Barack Obama won this district twice. I have a hard time believing Clinton will do worse.
BillinGlendaleCA
@hovercraft: Did you look at the video I linked to? The City of London is a separate entity from the rest of London. It predates the rest of London and even England itself.
Chris
@hovercraft:
I see where Trump gets it.
Steeplejack
@Another Scott:
I think we can all agree that Trump really knows how to connect with his audience.
redshirt
@Major Major Major Major: It’s expensive.
Groucho48
@Lizzy L:
My assumption is that he goes wherever he has property or facilities so he can overcharge his campaign for using them.
Lizzy L
@divF: Love Chandler, but he spent very little time in San Francisco, and as I recall, his novels were mostly set in southern California.
divF
@Chris: Nothing to be sorry about – the character (a cab driver) was referring to Northern Californians in general as “them minority groups.”
@Lizzy L:
Chandler’s late 1940’s snark.
Major Major Major Major
@redshirt: I think my local hackerspace has it in the library. The actual library probably does too.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Groucho48: True, he has a hotel(but not a casino) in Vegas.
redshirt
@Major Major Major Major: That would be the best way to read it. I ended up paying like 200$. Worth it.
Anne Laurie
New post up top, FWIW. (Guess all the front-pagers had other engagements this evening.)
(Admittedly, the two most likely to be posting this late, BettyC & Adam, have excellent reason to be busy elsewhere!)
slag
Rapture. Party of one.
eclare
@Mike E: I lived in Knoxville TN for a number of years, only heard it pronounced apple atcha.
Steeplejack
@Kropadope:
Er, you replied to me but included a blockquote from Origuy?
BillinGlendaleCA
@Steeplejack: I blame Obama.
Mike E
@eclare: you are correct… the mtns chain is apple A chins
ETA this has been the most internet-y thread of all time, kudos to all
hovercraft
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Wow I just watched that, and now I feel like an idiot for not knowing the history of “The City of London”. What is really and truly embarrassing is that I went to college in London, in my defense my first two years were actually at our Richmond campus, and then the last two in Kensington. In all that time I never actually went to the “City”, and the only reason I ever did the normal touristy things was when family came to visit. I was young and foolish, and my priorities revolved around partying and clubs. And I have been known to participate in more than my fair share of pub crawls, a truly wonderful English tradition.
And now this time I mean it goodnight.
Steeplejack
@Omnes Omnibus:
I recognize that apparently most of the residents pronounce it “Ne-vadd-a,” but I thought the “wrong” pronunciation was a trivial variation and not the huge cultural tripwire that it seems to be.
And even residents of a place can disagree. I will reference (but not look up) the discussion here some time back about the persistence of the pronunciation of Los Angeles with a hard g.
Steeplejack
@Major Major Major Major:
Actually, that’s something else that my friend in Las Vegas and I were laughing about on the phone tonight. She lived in Alameda, CA, before Las Vegas, and I used to needle her sometimes about “Frisco,” sometimes throwing in a reference to the Rivieras’ “California Sun” (1:45):
Millard Filmore
@Mnemosyne:
Ahhh, the memories of the 60’s. Is the Des Plaines Oasis still there?
Steeplejack
@Mnemosyne:
I think the Anglo appropriation and pushback is certainly older than 30 years.
redshirt
I just don’t speak out loud anymore. Solves all these issues.
Steeplejack
@sigaba:
I get ads on some websites for a steakhouse chain called “Del Frisco’s,” which I find cringingly fake, even by current chain-restaurant standards.
Origuy
Del Frisco’s Restaurant Group is based in Southlake, Texas, not far from Frisco, Texas. No connection to San Francisco. (Which most people in San Jose call SF or San Fran.)
Mayim
@Major Major Major Major:
It is fascinating ~ it was used in one of my language history classes in grad school. Spend a couple weeks wrestling with cognates in modern English and trying to work out the phonological etc. changes compared to Old English and Middle English samples. Oh, and I think that was the assignment where the professor threw in some Old Norse and/or Old High German excerpts just to keep us on our toes;-)
Steeplejack
@Origuy:
Yeah, I know. I looked it up to see why I was getting the ads—there isn’t one within hundreds of miles of me—and saw that it’s based in Texas. The name just sounds off-puttingly fake and marketing-lab-created to me, like “We’re classy, but not in a gay way, and you should definitely want to eat here,” like they’re looking for some (possibly nonexistent) niche just above Outback and Longhorn.
Actually, I wish there was a Longhorn Steak House near me. I liked the one near me in Atlanta for the occasional mini-splurge.
. . . Shnikeys! Apparently there is a Longhorn only about three miles from me. I’ll have to check it out.
Anne Laurie
@Omnes Omnibus:
Steeplejack
@Anne Laurie:
Riffle should be rifle, methinks.
. . . Ayyup, checked the Wikipedia link.
Anne Laurie
@redshirt:
Once Donald Trump became the GOP candidate, the national subconscious was primed for the meme of dangerous clowns.
(Incidentally, both Steven King & the network producing the show have loudly disassociated themselves from any form of ‘viral marketing’ in connection with it.)
Steeplejack
@Anne Laurie:
Trump is having Guggo and his clown army infiltrate the town hall debate on Sunday.
J R in WV
@efgoldman:
Me too, regarding Nevadah
And that guy isn’t making it up about the 12,000 Jews and the Rapture, he got that from some “theologian” who wrote those books about the rapture, “Left beHind” series or sumthin like that.
He died recently so he now knows more about those mysteries than he did when he wrote the books about them. Or not, as the case may be.
About 2 or 3 years ago we started getting unsolicited stuff in the mail sent to us on the assumption that we’re Jewish. Not too much, the last name is a common Swiss word, I don’t know anyone in my family who was even close to Jewish. Baptists, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, but no Jews, going way back.
Some of what we get is from the folks trying to convert Jews for Jesus, very, very strange stuff. Others trying to raise money for more settlements on the west bank. also strange.
trnc
“Well, yeah. If you’re going to refer to my kid’s flesh and blood as a little cracker and a little whine, you can bet your ass I have some plans for you, bitch.”
– God, The One True Almighty
@PearlyGates
SFAW
@hovercraft:
Are you saying there are some here who think otherwise?
Fie upon them!
SFAW
@redshirt:
You can say “Frisco” as loud as you like — I don’t think they’ll hear you.
BruceFromOhio
Holy crow, I was trying to gather why a Pence post would generate a near-TBogg unit. And Gaia love you all, you are still at it almost ten hours later.
JR in WV
@Another Scott:
My favorite Atlanta name is Druid Hills Episcopal Church. So much contradiction is such a simple name! We drove past there a number of times on one visit to town, and I was surprised that most people have no idea how that’s odd… a complete lack of historical knowledge.
JR in WV
@Mike E:
As a born and bred WV Hillbilly I always pronounced the mountains were I live as
apple-ah-chins. I am informed by Mrs J (who did national radio news at times) that somewhere between Morgantown WV and Pittsburgh SP is where it changes to Apple-A-chins.
Here in WV, north of the Kanawha River (Charleston, the state capital is on the river) houses burn down. South of the river, houses burn up. In Mingo county, on the southern border of the state, houses burn plumb up!
Many language oddities in WV, some older rural folks nearly speak Elizabethan English, with a different vocabulary and pronunciation of standard English words. Meadered said as mindered, for ex.
Another Scott
@JR in WV: “If you don’t say Apple-At-Cha, someone might throw an apple at ya….”
Cheers,
Scott.
(Who has always wondered about “Caribbean”, also too.)