Not even the healthy pale-skinned newborns you imagine would be “welcomed” by “so many families”. Nor are women’s bodies civic resources, like coal mines or arable lands, where the state can rule on best use for the community.
Good for Tim Kaine for resisting Pence’s bland, anodyne, evil statement. Per Real Clear Politics:
TIM KAINE: Elaine, this is a fundamental question. Hillary and I are both from religious backgrounds. Her Methodist church experience was very informative for her as a public servant. But we both feel you should live fully and with enthusiasm for your faith. But, let’s talk about abortion and choice. We support Roe v. Wade. We support the constitutional right of American women to consult their own conscience and make their own decision about pregnancy. That is something we trust American women to do. And we don’t think that women should be punished, as Donald Trump [said], for making the decision to have an abortion. Governor Pence wants to repeal Roe v. Wade. He says he wants to put it on the trash heap of history. Before Roe v. Wade, states could punish women if they made the choice to abort a pregnancy.
I think you should live your moral values, but the last thing governments should do is to have laws that would punish women who make reproductive choices. That is the fundamental difference between the Clinton-Kaine ticket and the Trump-Pence ticket.
PENCE: It is really not. Donald Trump and I would never support legislation that would punish women who made the heartbreaking choice.
KAINE: Then, why did he say that?
PENCE: Look, he is not a polished politician like you and Hillary Clinton…
"Your misery is necessary for my happiness" is monstrous on a personal level. As official state policy? It's a FUCKING WAR CRIME. 6/?
— Allison Hantschel (@Athenae) October 5, 2016
Mike Pence Needs to Shut up About Infertility https://t.co/TfjE6mTIBG via @athenae
— Allison Hantschel (@Athenae) October 5, 2016
bet donnie dick is fuming over that right now.
I listened on the radio and my impression was that at times Senator Kaine quietly allowed Governor Pence to speak just long enough to preach to their baskets of deplorables & insanely clueless followers. I also agree with previous post comments that the questions were GOP red meat.
Why do Pence and others sometime seem to assume only “polished” politicians are able to clearly and coherently articulate positions? Most of the time they’ve off raving “All Politicians are liars! Trump is a straight-shooter, speaks what he means” blah blah blah, and then as soon as they need to deny something he said it’s all “He’s not a pahwatician”. Are they seriously trying to collect all the logical inconsistencies possible? They do have quite a collection.
The Ancient Randonneur
As someone so cleverly pointed out on Twitter this is the second debate where Trump had a Mike that wasn’t working for him.
Former accountant refutes Trump’s tax brilliance: I did all the work.
@The Ancient Randonneur: lol…
I would like to see abortion come up in a debate and get a real discussion of what a late term abortion is used for. It’s almost always a case of saving the life of the mother, of the fetus having died or being unviable, or both. It’s a really difficult subject, but it needs to be had and it’s never going to happen with two men on the stage. Someone needs to tell those stories. We’ve never had the chance before. It should be in the 3rd debate.
@amk: I am glad that the tax story has hurt Trump, even though I feel it is a thin reed. “Rich business person hires team of tax experts to legally use the tax code to personal benefit”
Now that this story has had it’s desired impact on Trump, it is time to move one to new ideas before the inanity of this attack sinks in and diminishing returns show up.
@? Martin: agreed. I thought most cases were for anencephaly.
Kaine reminds me of the “Caddyshack” gopher.
The testimonials to George Tiller were heartbreaking.
Pence said Roe v Wade would be overturned if Trump was president. I would like to see Pence get questioned over and over what the punishment should be for women who then had illegal abortions, sent to prison like in El Salvador or what exactly. They don’t want to talk about that either.
Pence is repellent speaking in that unctuous, uber Christianist tone that makes my skin crawl.
Villago Delenda Est
Mike Pence is perfectly OK with Freedom of Religion, as long as you follow his religion.
@bemused: just that last bit where he’s explaining that his “faith” is sooooo important to him he would force his beliefs on all women should stick a fork (pitch preferably) in him. What a condescending prick.
It would be interesting to see the skeletons in his closet. Up tight, holier than thou types always have the dirtiest skeletons.
MSM has dropped ball (surprise) since day 1 on the implications of GOP/Cons abortion policies. Guatemala, Honduras, Romania under Ceausescu. Hey, it’s a job creation policy: policing, inspections, prosecutions, forensic gynecologists.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
Speaking as one of the commodities, Mike Pence can go fuck himself.
MSM please note: Pence says he doesn’t believe women who have abortions should be punished?
Then why did Purvi Patel get thrown in jail for 20 years?
Not only does Pence favor punishment for women who have abortions, he and the other Republicans in his state have started putting the laws in place.
Color me shocked. Trump is angry that Pence didn’t defend him and got generally positive marks for lying in a more conventional, conservative manner.
Sounds like it was your bog-standard veep debate.
Glad I’m not an Orioles fan this morning.
I was a teen when Roe v Wade was decided and clearly remember the battles leading up to that moment (and of course after). More people were demanding abortion rights because so many “nice” young girls were dying or being irreparably harmed from unsafe, back alley or do it yourself abortions. But, it’s been more than 40 years and just like voting rights it looks like we have to refight the battle all over again. Nothing is ever settled for conservatives, and the rest of us can’t ever be complacent. Which is a little crazy, but there it is.
Kaine did a good job of making the case for a woman’s right to choose, but the Monday morning QB in me thought that he missed an opportunity to point out that Pence’s answer to problems he doesn’t want to deal with is to avoid talking about them. Birth control education helps prevent teen pregnancy, but Pence doesn’t think schools should talk about sex. We have to find out why unarmed black people are more likely to be shot by police than unarmed white people, but Pence doesn’t think we should talk about it.
As a side note, I think Kaine didn’t push back enough against Pence’s numerous claims that our economy has done horribly in the last eight years.
We’ll see how Trump publicly behaves, but I would like to believe this story, and it certainly makes sense. On top of everything else, he’s demonstrated he has a lot of rage over the first debate just looking for an outlet.
Oh, goody. Now we can look forward to Trump cutting Mike Pence down to size in his next few rally speeches, to remind him who’s boss, the way he did with Chris Christie.
@Botsplainer: Ha! I wonder if this makes Debate Loser Donnie even more unhinged during the next debate. Maybe it’s a good thing that Pence is seen as having slightly won last night.
I would argue that he does want to deal with these things. He wants to keep girls ignorant of sex, and he wants the police to commit violence against blacks for him. His values are different from ours, but he’s pursuing them.
Bear in mind, he knows that keeping girls ignorant of sex will reduce abortions. Facts are irrelevant. He knows, and the ignorance is the goal and reduced abortions a side benefit.
For me, Trump’s biggest disqualifier is that he’s intellectually and temperamentally unfit for the job. He’s simply reactive, and gives zero thought to the ramifications of his words and actions, which explains why he’s been a disaster as a businessman, husband and father. There is zero deliberation that he undertakes.
Combine that with his narcissism and sociopathy, and you have a recipe for a disastrous reign, one that would fundamentally and forever transform this country for the worse.
Say what you will about the policies of a Ted Cruz, a Mike Pence, a John Kasich or a Marco Rubio, each has some inkling of self-awareness, and would stop to think something that was of a crisis nature through. Trump doesn’t, and is then enraged by any criticism of his fuckup.
@Frankensteinbeck: Yeah, he wants to deal with those problems in the same way as Republicans want to deal with climate change: By pretending they don’t exist.
Bill E Pilgrim
Morning Frat Boy is howling about Bill Clinton’s comments on Obamacare for the entire first segment of the show, which means that the debate is officially a non-event in Villager World. Had anything notable or mildly controversial happened this crew would be turning it into a game changer, instead they’ve moved on.
KellyMarySueAnne is coming on to lie about it next but it’s already been relegated to non-event status by the low billing.
@Keith G: effing gop and their ass kissing msm flogged benghazi!!! and emails!!! nothingburgers for months. And you want to move on his more serious tax
@satby: let a thousand Becky Bells bloom in the land of Trump and Pence.
Title of post is absolutely on point
Of course Trump is unhappy about Pence’s performance. Pence is trying to sound sane so he can take over the ticket, you know, just in case something happens to Trump. Can’t trust that Mike; he’s got beady eyes.
Pence’s smarmy “concern” about abortion reminds me of a Ugandan preacher who was interviewed about the death penalty for gays law of which he was one of the local backers (there were US preachers backing it too). When asked directly about it, he switched to an anguished tone about how “if you could see what I have seen” of the horrors of homosexuality. The law passed, though “only” with a penalty of up to life imprisonment.
Smash him with a rock–electorally, that is.
The MSM have done their intended job of letting a white guy lie unchallenged in a soothing, plausible voice, and that job is now done.
What we need to do now is make it all about Pence. Oh noes, he is so very much more effective and twice the candidate the Donald is, and the election is really and obviously about him!
Trump’ll fire him. Mark my fucking words. The Republican side of the race is out of control and there aren’t enough horse tranquilizers or threats in all the world to make this guy take THAT lying down. He doesn’t take ‘you can’t’ for an answer, and the mob loves HIM.
Why do Evengelicals insist that their religious beliefs trump my religious beliefs?