My favorite wingnut response to the Trump tape is “it’s no different than what you hear in hip-hop”.
If you ever repeated the words to a rap song, you've said much worse than Donald Trump. You're all hypocrites.
— Sandra Rose (@SandraRose) October 8, 2016
I have to ask: are there really that many hip-hop songs that you might hear on the radio that condone sexual assault? I can’t think of any except maybe that one line from “Hypnotize”.
I don’t claim to be an expert of any kind here, and I’m sure there are all kinds of awful hip-hop lyrics out there somewhere, but I doubt there’s many middle-aged political operatives and national political reporters who have sung along with such lyrics recently. Am I wrong?
I racked my brain to think of a line from any song of any kind in any genre I’ve ever heard on the radio that feels similar to Trump’s comments, and the best I can do is the title for this post. (Some of you will say “Baby It’s Cold Outside” but I maintain it was just a very strong drink.)
It seems to me the winger assumption here is that since many hip-hop artists are black, it must be that all hip-hop is about sexual assault.
Corner Stone
Why the qualifier? That will pretty much rule out almost all of the work she is vaguely referring to.
hueyplong
The people saying that don’t actually know any of the words to any hip-hop songs. O’Reilly and Hannity simply told them to say that.
We need to stop acting as though there is any thought behind the defenses of Trump. We’re not trying to pry away the deplorables. We’re trying to give the deplorables some GOPers on whom to train their fire.
So far so good.
Lyrebird
something like,
“You’ve gotta be the way another girl would be,
if you wanna be with me, …don’t be cruel.”
I’m not voting for Bobby Brown for president, either,
imagine that!
Now the “I just killed ‘my’ woman” genre crosses all styles of music, from Eminem to (blanking on the name, not Stone Temple Pilots, who is it?) something about when the dogs begin to smell her…
YUCK!
Yesterday I found a new way to help GOTV without phonebanking – I took out the trash from the field office. How fitting! Go HRC, take out the trumpster trash from the political sphere!
ETA: of course by this twitterer’s logic, anyone who’s sung along to Johnny Cash should be in the clink for murder.
Walker
They think it is about the profanity. They refuse to understand that the issue is sexual assault.
EDIT: If anything, a better example is Blurred Lines. Not exactly hip-hop, though.
oldster
They still think that his crime consists in using naughty words. It’s not about words, it’s about sexual assault.
And Republicans still–*still*–do not understand consent.
Pest Bog Mummy, Frakensteinbeck
Interesting how quickly her thoughts go to how liberals are supportive of blacks, isn’t it?
redshirt
Thanks Tupac.
Captain Oblivious
I checked my mail-in ballot. I didn’t see any rappers listed.
Mark B
@Captain Oblivious: I think you missed the line for ‘Sir Fucks-Up-A-Lot’. He’s running as a Republican this year.
Hunter Gathers
Sure, Donald Trump boasted about sexual assault. But, you know, The Blacks!
Lyrebird
Another example of more recent trashy lyrics,
still not sinking to trumpster-level:
Hotel, motel, holiday inn –
you see, if your girl starts acting up,
then you take her friend!
There’s some demeaning lyrics from 2 Live Crew…
still not as bad.
LL Cool J, I’m the type of guy
and that old OPP song
reinforce the idea of women as men’s property,
still not as bad.
Sandra Rose sounds like the kind of person who would have easily bought the NYPD’s arguments for convicting the teenage boys with those forced confessions.
ETA: and yeah, what oldster said!
Ted
“Uh-oh, Get Out of the Car!” by the Treniers would probably count.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
That lyric grosses me out. And I can barely listen to “Under My Thumb” anymore. Also, the Byrds’ Chestnut Mare, “when I do, I’ll give her my brand”
redshirt
Does anyone know if there’s a term to describe a type of southern folk/country song that seems to focus on criminal acts, murder being among them. Cash has some examples of course, but there’s lots of obscure songs too. Here’s a cover by the Lemonheads.
Ah, Wiki says “Appalachian Murder Ballads”. Wonderful.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
That line from Mungo Jerry always did hit me wrong. Such a cheerful song otherwise. But that line… I don’t know, maybe he’s implying the daughter of a not-rich man is less restrained and doesn’t need to he wined and dined? Just creepy.
Aimai
Was he rapping? No: raping.
Linda
When the Trump story first broke, my first thought was Digital Underground’s “I just grab em in the biscuit.”
Corner Stone
@Lyrebird: You can go back to NWA and EZ where he rapes the woman during a bank robbery. But that never made it to the air, IIRC.
Mustang Bobby
The Beatles’ Run For Your Life:
Well I’d rather see you dead, little girl
Than to be with another man
You better keep your head, little girl
Or I won’t know where I am
You better run for your life if you can, little girl
Hide your head in the sand little girl
Catch you with another man
That’s the end ah little girl.
But those were nice lads from Liverpool. And they were white. And it’s 50 years old.
Pest Bog Mummy, Frakensteinbeck
@redshirt:
There’s an entire genre called ‘psychobilly’ of country music that focuses mostly on songs about murdering women. Mind you, it’s usually presented as a tragedy, not encouraged. Usually.
Percysowner
@Lyrebird:
Oh, the white guys killing “their’ women because those women dared to not be faithful. I ran lights on a community theater production of a play set in the sixties and I got to hear Tom Jones feeling sorry for himself because Delilah FORCED him to murder her and Paul McCartney telling his “Little Girl” to run for her life for not wanting to be with him.
There’s also “Ruby Don’t take your love to town” in the country/pop genre. I’m sure there’s more, but blaming people because they can sing the lyrics to popular songs is not the same as actively talking about having sexually assaulted women.
Scout211
I read something somewhere this morning that summed this up for me. It wasn’t Trump “performance art” this time, it was Trump privately being the real Trump–a really a disgusting person. He is not just playing a disgusting person on T. V. This time.
Many of those hip hop artists who are being used to defend and normalize Trump may very well be performing sexually suggestive lyrics, but until the Trump defenders have proof that those hip hop artists are disgusting people in their private lives–AND RUN FOR PUBLIC OFFICE–well, just shut up.
dr. luba
Well, I don’t care if you’re just 13
You look too good to be true
I just know that you’re probably clean…
Jailbait you look fine, fine, fine…
It’s quite alright, I asked your mama
Wait a minute, officer
Don’t put those handcuffs on me
Put them on her, and I’ll share her with you
GOP thought leader Ted Nugent, from “Jailbait”
uila
@Linda: The Trumpty Dance!
Corner Stone
@Pest Bog Mummy, Frakensteinbeck: Delia’s Gone?
Anya
How many times I, sit back and contemplate
I’m fresh off the dank, but I’m telling my story..
My relationship, with my folks is give and take
And I done took so much, not giving my glory
Now have a choice to be who you wants to be
It’s left uppa to me, and my momma n’em told me (yes she did)
I said I have a choice to be who you wants to be
It’s left uppa to me, and my momma n’em told me
Bill E Pilgrim
@redshirt: I also like the category “Appalachian Hiking Ballads” perhaps best exemplified by the song “I Go to Rio”
BGinCHI
The biggest difference, of course, is that Hip Hop does not want to be President of the United States.
Pest Bog Mummy, Frakensteinbeck
@Corner Stone:
I haven’t heard that one, but isn’t it the famous one that always comes up? My tastes run to the very dark and the very light, so I do love a couple of psychobilly songs, like The Beauty Of Her Face. There’s an interesting discussion to be had of the artistic and psychological value of dark themes, but it’s straying quite far from the OP.
Joel
It’s not just the saying, it’s the doing. In which case R Kelly is the best analogy.
singfoom
Backlash around the Trump tapes continue:
Paul Ryan booed by Trumpers
Can I just say this is grand to see? The GOP downballot races can’t be generating enthusiasm when they run away from Trump. You go, crazy 27%, help the Ds win the Senate and House.
OzarkHillbilly
I wonder how many Repubs sang along with Johnny Cash?
“I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die.”
Donalbain
I think a lot them honestly believe that the problem with Trump’s tape is that he said the word “pussy”. The whole idea that he was admitting to multiple sexual assaults is flying right over their heads.
Bill E Pilgrim
Speaking of music Rudy is on the Sunday shows doing his rendition of “A Noun, a Penis, and BIll Clinton”, or as I call it, The Organ Recital.
Rand Careaga
Half a lifetime ago my wife was an itinerant musician playing in bars and hotels around the country. I heard her observe once that most pop songs take one of these forms:
1. Ooh, baby, I wanna fuck you.
2. Ooh, baby, I love fucking you.
3. Ooh baby, I miss fucking you.
4. Fuck you.
Joel
@Lyrebird: OPP is equal opportunity, though. The third verse IIRC refers to ladies stealing another woman’s dude.
Corner Stone
@Joel: R Kelly doing the damned thing!
WereBear
@dr. luba: Damn. Not familiar with his work, and now it is on purpose.
That’s really horrible.
EthylEster
An opinion piece at WaPo today written by a man has produced a bunch of comments by men protesting that they have never heard vile stuff like the trump tape. Comments on women’s appearance, yes but…. So I was thinking about when in the past (when the testosterone level at B-J was a lot higher) I have seen a man post the comment here “I’d hit that.” To me that is demeaning to women and obviously objectifying. So I’m wondering if that response in public or private is categorized under “legit male expression of approval of female appearance ” that some men seem to be defending.
Joel
@redshirt: murder ballads are old as time. Mack the Knife is a murderer, pedophile, and rapist. At least in the original lyrics.
Nom de Plume
@Mustang Bobby:
The opening lines were actually lifted from an Elvis Presley song, Baby Let’s Play House, so it goes back even further. And Lennon later disowned the song.
RedDirtGirl
@Lyrebird: How many ballads are there about pushing the woman into the river to drown, etc? It goes waaaaaay back.
Donalbain
My name’s Donald Trump and I’m here to say,
I grab women in a rapey way!
DCrefugee
One thing perhaps lost in all this (and which might come up this evening…) is the Rethugs impeached Bill Clinton for lying about consensual sex. By that “logic”, articles of impeachment should be introduced against Trump on the day he (FSM forbid!) takes office since he admits to committing sexual assault.
Yeah, I know, but sauces, gooses and ganders…
dmsilev
It really is going to end just like _Scarface_. “Say hello to my little fingers!”
bago
Besides, if anyone is big pimpin in this scenario, it’s the guy blinged up in gold, with baby mommas in different area codes, pimpin out eastern European models.
OzarkHillbilly
@OzarkHillbilly: Full disclosure: I sing along with that song every time I hear it.
ThresherK
@oldster: Robot-Hugs has a great comic about the Consent Castle.
I’ve always maintained that “Baby It’s Cold Outside” is within the consent castle. I note how the woman describes her family’s tut-tutting, a very mid-century thing to think of decades before “walk of shame” (sic) was ever invented. And this song was a piece Frank Loesser and his wife duetted on at parties, before folks talked him into having it recorded for real.
schrodinger's cat
@Mustang Bobby: Beatles have many such creepy lyrics in their moptop phase.
What is this obsession with hip hop? I have to say that I don’t remember any Hindi movie songs that condone sexual assault. There are plenty where women are leered at and objectified and just as many where they are deified and romantic love equated to love for the divine. A common thread in Bhakti and Sufi traditions.
An example:
Chaiyya Chaiyya (Being in love is like being in paradise, Spike Lee used this Rahman number for the Inside Man).
Agorabum
Oh, he’s just an excitable boy they all said.
CM
Check out Ted Nugent’s “Cat Scratch Fever.” Also too, I believe he has had some things to say about Hillary over the years.
Patricide
OTOH: What this country really needs is a President they give a cold shower and throw him a piece of meat before bed.
JPL
@dmsilev: Rudy and Reince are traveling with Trump today on his plane. No mention of Kellyanne.
sukabi
Here’s the thing, it’s not just about WHAT he said, it’s that he’s DONE what he said. They’re trying to make it about vulgar language, not about the actual sexual assualts.
debbie
Again, what they’re saying without saying it is that it was horrible what Bill did 20 years ago, but it’s okay that Donald’s also done it because Bill did. They cannot have it both ways, no matter how furiously they Tweet.
Craigie
Maxwell’s Silver Hammer?
Catchy tune.
PPCLI
Like The Cramps “Bikini Girls with Machine Guns”, for example….
Oh, you don’t mean that they focus on women who murder, you mean something else. Naw, I don’t see it. You might find some, but “focuses mostly on” is a wild overstatement.
bystander
Confessing to having grabbed women’s reproductive organs and to feel entitled to continue to do so is the same as singing “My Backdoor Man”. What does that make Howlin Wolf?
Pogonip
Doug, the woman you quoted said “rap.” You said “hip-hop.” I thought there was a fifference? And that rap was the “fuck that bitch and then kill her” genre, not hip-hop?
I’ve heard a lot of rap, or that ‘s what the kids in the carpool say it is, but I could not tell you how violent it is, as I can’t understand a word of it. It’s all just some guy mumble-chanting in an unpleasant nasal whine, which I am sure is forced, like the c/w singers from Canada with “Southern” accents. There are 2 reasons I’m sure it’s forced: 1). I’ve heard a number of rappers conversing, either with me or in interviews, and they sound perfectly normal. 2). If anyone DID sound like that in everyday life, the people who knew him would drag him to a monastery to take a vow of silence.
Anyway, Doug, did you mean to talk about hip-hop or rap?
trnc
Is there anything stopping Sandra from working very hard to make sure that said hip-hop artist’s run for president does not succeed?
debbie
@dmsilev:
Tweeted by the most self-righteous guy in the room!
MomSense
@dr. luba:
Hey little schoolgirl
Good mornin little schoolgirl
Can I come home with you
Can I come home later with you
Now you can tell your mother and your father
That I’m a little school boy too
bystander
@debbie: And why is the best response to “Bill talked nasty on the golf course” not, “He’s not running for President”?
debbie
@bystander:
Because he’ll likely be the #1 advisor.
Gindy51
There is a huge difference between what someone write in a song or a book (the BIBLE is rife with rape and assault) and when a person is chit chatting with another about what he actually does.
Corner Stone
@EthylEster:
I, for one, addressed this in full at least as far back as 2011. That was during the absolute height of The New Era of Civility ™ here at the blog. A brief flashback, if you will:
Taylor
@EthylEster:
Whenever I see a comment like that, I picture a pimply twelve year old boy typing with one hand.
Oldgold
Sounds like Trump is going to try to go Harper Valley PTA tonight .
How should HC respond?
Corner Stone
Having Steve Cortes on the panel is just simply ruining Joy’s show this AM.
Nick
I think what they don’t understand is that though it is true, hip hop contains a certain amount of exaggerated, vainglorious boasting, it’s not considered a boast to say that you have to grab a woman (or rape her, etc.). The boast is that the women grab you (or some variant thereof). It’s only skeevy white Republicans who feel the need to hold on as tight as possible so the pussy doesn’t get away.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Corner Stone: I can’t believe no one pushed back on that “lied to the Benghazi families” thing
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Mustang Bobby:
Prezactly.
Corner Stone
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I had it on mute 90% of the panel because it’s just so much garbage how they all laugh at what he says even when it’s complete lies and hideous bullshit.
The funny thing I did notice though is that everyone is much more relaxed today. They all seem to have realized that whatever election fight there *might* have been for the last month, there is absolutely nothing left of it now. So they can all be friends and just say whatever they like. Because nothing matters anymore.
Gravenstone
It’s not intended to rebut the argument against Trump. It’s just the typical Republican dog whistle about those shiftless Blacks and their evil jungle music. Because they’re all Demon-rats, dontchano?
dmsilev
Live report from
the FührerbunkerTrump Tower:Jim, Foolish Literalist
ETA: Andrea Mitchell taking over for Joy Reid… do I want to know in advance how the Village is going discuss the Optics of Trump’s Great Poo Fling?
No
MattF
From David Frum:
I disagree with Frum about a long list of things, but he gets Trump.
AnotherBruce
Just checked in on TPM. It seems that a growing number of GOPers are calling for Trump to get out of the presidential race. It’s not going to happen because it can’t happen. But this must be discouraging to GOP voters. It’s time to crush the Republican party as it stands. We can’t function as a nation if this amount of crazy goes on.
piratedan
hell, there’s even The Crystals “He Hit Me (and it felt like a kiss)”
tunage
Villago Delenda Est
Sandra Rose: very stupid ho
Anoniminous
Some years ago Conservatives were defending torture. Today they are defending sexual assault. This suggests they will be defending genocide sometime in the 2020s.
scav
Ah, twitter. Interesting details on how twtter gets astroturfed — on beyond spoofing. It might be trending, but that doesn’t make it true Nice bit of geographic analysis details for lurking geographers into diffusion.
Villago Delenda Est
@AnotherBruce: I’ve said this before, I will probably say it again: The GOP needs to go the way of the NSDAP and the CPSU.
Oblivion.
Villago Delenda Est
@Anoniminous: They’re well on their way. They think that deporting 16 million “mezzikans” will be a walk in the park.
japa21
Weren’t there major complaints from the GOP when Obama had some rappers perform at the WH, saying people who talked like that didn’t belong in such a sacred place? These are folks that get upset if Obama wears jeans in the Oval Office, yet this crass sociopath is okay?
piratedan
@AnotherBruce: I guess for me is that if the GOP is busy shedding it’s establishment skin to become a reformed constituency of tribal diehards, neo-nazi’s and evangelical hypocrites, that this group should regrettably poll between 20-30%. Do we see a re-burgeoning of the Libertarian ranks or does something else rise from the ashes of the old GOP? Do the trumpistas and tea partiers rebrand the existing GOP, relinquishing the name brand? I think we’re witnessing the death of a major political party or perhaps the birth of two new political parties. What is also unknown, is the effect this will have on the Dems, will these changes cause tension in the Democrats and if so, to what degree.
gogol's wife
@Mustang Bobby:
And it’s a fiction, like a murder ballad! You guys are reminding me of the Key and Peele sketch with Gun Rack.
Trump was speaking in propria persona.
PPCLI
@dmsilev: There’s a scene in literature this article on Trump in the Führerturm reminds me of. It involves the phrases “a walking shadow, a poor player who struts and frets his hour on the stage and then is heard no more… a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing”.
sukabi
@AnotherBruce: one thing we can be certain of, is that with each gop denunciation drumpf has another target for his ire…. Clinton isn’t going to be hi only target.
Mai.naem.mobile
Ivanka needs to literally come down with a hammer on Trump’s tiny little fingers if there is a tiny possibility of the Trump brand surviving. And then punch him hard in the mouth so that he can’t use voice recognition software for the Twitter machine either. Okay,thats my advice to the Trump Campaign.
gogol's wife
@Joel:
Should have read the thread first!
MattF
@japa21: Trump wears expensive clothes.
MattF
@PPCLI: There’s going to be a deliberate effort after the election to make it all seem like a bad dream. But the Trump voters are actually there, in real life– and they’re gonna be pissed.
Splitting Image
@Gindy51:
This is exactly it. Donald Trump isn’t John Lennon singing “Run For Your Life”. Or a rap singer. He’s Phil Spector bragging about the woman he killed.
Villago Delenda Est
@singfoom: As predicted months ago, he’s dragging the entire party down with him.
Good.
Ruviana
Years ago, in the 70s, a friend and I were in a small store and heard the refrain of a song that got our attention
“Hit ‘er with a rake and make her pay for her mistake.”
Still don’t know who it was but it does add to the discussion here.
*Pedantry note: “Little Girl” was a Lennon song (sad to say). Lennon was always grimmer than McCartney.
Calming Influence
@OzarkHillbilly: Wasn’t Cash “the man in BLACK”…?
redshirt
@Pest Bog Mummy, Frakensteinbeck:
I’m not super familiar with the genre, but I believe the band that coined the term was The Reverend Horton Heat with their “Psychobilly Freakout“. It’s rockabilly, not country, and I don’t recall any murders.
schrodinger's cat
@MattF: He still looks like shit. Obama can rock mom jeans and still win over a room with his electric smile.
Corner Stone
@PPCLI:
Man, that’s catchy and so appropriate. Consider it stoled!
Kenneth Kohl
“Down By The River” Neil Young
Down by the river
I shot my baby
Down by the river
Dead
But then, he’s a (pale’ish) foreigner, so I don’t know how you’d score it.
redshirt
I’ve long had a theory that The Eagles “Take it easy” is about a murderer just getting out of jail and then gets picked up hitchhiking by a woman and kills her.
Timurid
@MattF:
Frum is the guy who thought that Americans just weren’t scared enough to act responsibly and needed more fear in their lives.
But fear doesn’t make people responsible and virtuous. It makes them do crazy things like vote for Trump.
So now he’s suddenly horrified by this spectacle? Fuck that guy.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
Anyone remember Sam Sham’s “Hey There Little Red Riding Hood”? It’s kinda rapey, but far short of what the orange menace said.
dmsilev
@PPCLI: I read the other day an article analogizing Trump’s rise to how Shakespeare portrayed Richard III.
MattF
@redshirt: There was an old Willie Nelson song like that– back in the days when he was re-inventing Country Blues.
Chris
Looking for Zappa lyrics can’t find any. Are we really so old? Sad! Suzy, what’s got into you? ?
Corner Stone
It is infuriating that the media all just accept Trump is going to go at HRC by attacking Bill and this is…just fine? They just keep repeating, “How will she handle the attacks by Trump on Bill?”
Instead of, you know, pointing out that it is completely insane for a woman to be attacked in this manner and it is the literal definition of derangement.
Kenneth Kohl
Of course, in the early ’60’s, The Kingmen’s “Louie Louie” had some sensational interpretations to so blurry, indecipherable lyrics.
Ruviana
@EthylEster: Also really common on Eschaton back in the day–early aughts–where I used to hang out most of the time.
Miss Bianca
@Rand Careaga:
Love it. As another musician, I heartily approve of this summation of 5000 Years of Modern Pop Music.
WereBear
@japa21: Yes! Because he is their crass sociopath!
Corner Stone
@Villago Delenda Est:
Good…Good…
Ruviana
@Nom de Plume: Knowing he repudiated it makes me happy, anyway.
schrodinger's cat
@Corner Stone: The political media is awful, has been awful for at least the last 16 years. I was not paying too much attention to politics before that, so feel free to revise my time estimate.
jnfr
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I am an Old and that song was popular when I was growing up. I came from a poor family and I heard that lyric clearly. It jumped at me and I took it seriously.
WereBear
@piratedan: I have long maintained that the Democratic Party will split into two, with the more conservative wing sucking up the Republicans who don’t want to go Full Third Reich.
PPCLI
@Corner Stone: I wonder if some witches once told Trump that no man born of woman could ever defeat him.
OOOPS!
Corner Stone
@Mai.naem.mobile:
Trump has completely destroyed Ivanka and Ivanka’s “brand”. IMO, she will go dark shortly and never be heard from again.
Thankfully.
Kathleen
@JPL: Sounds like the beginning of a country ballad.
Rudy & Reince
Are travelling with Trump today
To sing his praises
And to let him have his say.
To shame his detractors
And make sure that they pay
Oh Rudy & Reince
Are travelling with Trump today
schrodinger's cat
@PPCLI: Is he Mahishasur, a demon no man could kill?
dmsilev
@schrodinger’s cat: I’d date the rot back to the 1980 campaign, when George Will was pretending to be an objective journalist while all the while doing everything he could back-stage to help Reagan.
dmsilev
@PPCLI: If the Ents rise up and march on Trump Tower, we’ll know that the time of prophecy is at hand.
p.a.
PPCLI
@redshirt: And I can’t think of a single song in which the Reverend talks about killing a woman. (Perhaps I am forgetting something, but I’d be surprised. It doesn’t seem like Jim Heath or his persona to go there.) Even in “400 Bucks”, which is a righteous angry howl about a girlfriend who borrowed 400 bucks, bought a used car with it, then dumped the singer for her old boyfriend and won’t pay him back. Not a hint of violence in that one, despite a tsunami of rage.
Miss Bianca
@PPCLI: Yeah, but Macbeth, psychopath tho’ he may have been, was an *actual* warrior gone bad, not just an opportunistic culture warrior. For better or for worse, most of the people he murdered on his path to power (the notable exceptions being Macduff’s “pretty chickens and their dam”) were people at least as powerful or as seasoned fighters as he.
Trump is a blowhard who only manages to screw people he perceives as weaker than himself. And he’ll never manage the sort of eye-opened anomie or long dark teatime of the soul that that soliloquy conveys.
Corner Stone
@MattF:
Not so sure about that. Trump ties are actually fairly affordable for people who need a decent looking tie. His suits all look like they are off the rack as they never seem to fit him. And they don’t hide his paunch like they would if he paid an actual tailor to craft them personally for him.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
OT: Okay, I’m watching Andrea Mitchell in spite of myself. I’m an addict.
But she said, and I’ve heard a lot, that Al Gore campaigning for HRC is a play for “millennials” (irritation quotes because I hate that word). I’m a huge Al Gore fan, wish he’d been more active over the last few years, and I really hope millennials care as much about climate policy as polls say they do, but An Inconvenient Truth was a while ago, is there any evidence that Gore can move votes?
Villago Delenda Est
I’m trying to tell you, boys
These hard headed women these days
The way they treat a man
Ain’t nothing but a doggone shame
I talked and talked and talked
She didn’t hear a word I said
Gonna get somebody’s baseball bat
And send her out again
Elvin Bishop, “Travlin’ Shoes.”
Mike J
Todd Rundgren A song that is “merely” demeaning, but doesn’t actually call for physical assault. But Todd isn’t by any stretch hip hop.
The Prodigy had a song they said wasn’t *really* about abusing a woman,They claimed to be really offended when the Beastie Boys (an actual hip hop group, as opposed to edm like The Prodigy) ask them not to play it when they played a festival together.
Never heard anybody listen to either song and say, “That’s what I want in a president!”
Mandalay
I don’t think Mr. 9/11 was expecting Jake Tapper to fight back…
I don’t think we’ll be hearing any more bullshit about only those who haven’t sinned can throw stones during this campaign.
Lizzy L
Oh, FFS. This is such bullshit. First of all; racist arglebargle; assumes [non]facts not in evidence. Second: email me when Chance the Rapper or Kanye West decide to run for President.
MattF
@Corner Stone: I’d assume that the competent tailors in NYC have all discovered that he doesn’t pay his bills.
Villago Delenda Est
@Corner Stone:
The tailors in NYC all know he’ll never pay the bill. So he’s stuck with off the rack.
PPCLI
@schrodinger’s cat: Well, if Deadbeat Donald is in fact half man and half buffalo it would explain a lot.
Oldgold
A lot of Trump supporters are falling victim to confirmation bias.
Confirmation bias refers to a type of selective thinking whereby one tends to notice and to look for what confirms one’s beliefs, and to ignore, not look for, or undervalue the relevance of what contradicts one’s beliefs.
This tendency to give more attention and weight to data that support our beliefs than we do to contrary data is especially pernicious when our beliefs are little more than prejudices.
I think no more than 10% or 15% will abandon Trump, but even that will result in SB electoral landslide and Democratic Senate.
Face
The Geto Boys from back in the day were pretty bad. Rape, murder, abuse….pretty much the trifecta of misogyny.
Anya
@debbie: I seem to recall lots of Republicans praising Bill Clinton to high heaven in 08 and 2012. They said he was a great guy, talented and was way better POTUS than Obama. HRC campaign should gather these clips and use it in a national ad. I am sure they’ll find plently of clips of Rudy (Clinton did it) Giuliani praising Clinton.
lollipopguild
The song Trump needs to listen to is “Frankie and Johnny” the song is about a woman who kills her man because he was cheating on her.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Anya: Peak of that, I think, was poor old Orrin Hatch lamenting how well he worked with the man he voted to impeach, and was one of the loudest and most sanctimonious voices in the Senate in those days.
Mary G
This is all beside the point. Raps and songs are fiction; Trump was talking about what he actually did.
Corner Stone
God dammit. There Sarah Isgur Flores goes again with the, “yeah, but Hillary”. And fucking Andrea Mitchell doesn’t say a damn word about it.
Freakin’ A.
PPCLI
@Miss Bianca: True enough. (Though I’d put Banquo’s son into the group with Macduff’s wife/kids, though he escaped.) In the final scene MacBeth attains a certain nobility in facing his fate and confronting it stoically, and that is not happening with the Thane of Atlantic City.
different-church-lady
I go on vacation in the woods for four days and THIS happens?
Obviously I need to go on vacation more often!
Mandalay
@AnotherBruce:
They are only making lofty pronouncements now because they see the writing on the wall, and they want to inoculate themselves against the charge that they did nothing while Trump destroyed the GOP.
Mike J
@Mike J: Sorry, let me take back what I said about the Todd song. I hadn’t listened to it in years and forgot the line, “you’re alright / you put up such a good clean fight / I’m afraid that you lose tonight”.
Carol
A rapper isn’t running for president.
redshirt
@different-church-lady: Thanks! Such a wonderful gift.
BruceFromOhio
If a rap song was running for president, then Sandy’s statement would be valid.
schrodinger's cat
@PPCLI: Its good that we have Mahishasurmardini (slayer of Mahishasur) on our side, then.
scav
It’s recordings like these that get hauled out to totally justify why the cop got frightened and shot the unarmed black man. “He was abusive! Had a restraining order 10 years ago! Was a member of a bad unhealthy culture where co-members encouraged such behavior in their friends! Poooooor policeman.” What do you think. Is it the business suit or the media entourage that makes it all acceptable?
No wonder he’s orange. He has to advertise his Star billing 24/7 so he can get away with this shit publicly.
debbie
@Mustang Bobby:
Except back then, the “end” was a relationship breakup.
Iowa Old Lady
People at tonight’s debate are “undecided” voters. Has any poll asked undecideds who they voted for in 2012? It would be interesting to see the party breakdown.
Nick
@redshirt:
Actually, Take It Easy was referring to Jackson Browne telling one of the Eagles how some woman in a pickup truck ogled him when he was standing by the side of the road — it did take place in Arizona, but they changed it to Winslow to make it scan better.
ET
Van Jones on CNN just told the panel that the GOP couldn’t abort their candidate late term they just had to go through with it.
Anoniminous
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I’m thinking after the smears and hate Conservatives have thrown at Gore over the last 16 years this could be more of an extended middle digit to the GOP, telling them a Clinton administration is going to fight back against their BS.
debbie
@Anya:
I think they thought they were playing 11-dimensional chess.
PPCLI
@Anya: They were also praising Hillary. I remember in particular both Karl Rove and Richard Mellon Scaife saying in interviews how impressed they were with Hillary as a senator, and how she was conciliatory, a bridge-builder, effective even as a freshman, blah blah. I took that to mean that they were genuinely terrified of Obama as a candidate, while they were sure that they could slime Hillary effectively.
Villago Delenda Est
@shomi: There are plenty of great lines that start on the ‘tubes that never make it to a Sunday morning talk show panel. When they do, though, it’s a sea change in how the Village’s narrative is going.
Honus
@Pest Bog Mummy, Frakensteinbeck: “Psycho” by Eddie Noack. Written by Leon Payne. Who also wrote Hank Williams “Lost highway” 1966, incredibly spooky song.
ET
@shomi: still funny to see that on CNN right at Jake Tappers face.
Iowa Old Lady
@Mary G: Exactly. You’d have to have a character from a rap song running for president to have a parallel.
redshirt
@Nick: Yes, I’ve learned that’s the established meaning.
But Winslow AZ is the home of the AZ state prison, and their used to be signs warning people not to pick up hitchhikers because of that.
So, the line “I’m standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona, such a fine sight to see….” to me implies he’s hitchhiking in Winslow AZ and despite the warning, a woman picks him up. And the “Take it easy” chorus is the psychopath’s words to his victim.
Shell
The most common response Ive heard is “It was over ten years ago!” Ten years ago he wasn’t some pimply teenager; he was 60 years old, supposedly an adult.
ThresherK
@Iowa Old Lady: So, M.C Skat Kat is the GOP’s new hope?
PhoenixRising
Today’s Trumpeters are rocking the Sondheim, because they’re not rappers:
And I know things now,
Many valuable things,
That I hadn’t known before:
Do not put your faith
In a cape and a hood,
They will not protect you
The way that they should.
And take extra care with strangers,
Even flowers have their dangers.
And though scary is exciting,
Nice is different than good.
bemused
@Mandalay:
Rudy has always been a vile little shit but he sounds like he has gotten even more nasty and creepy. Maybe it’s just seems that way because I have happily not seen or heard much of him since the Bush years.
Miss Bianca
@redshirt: Oh, great. I didn’t think anything could make me hate the Eagles more than I already do. Well done (!?)
Jim, Foolish Literalist
a small man who spent his life in search of a balcony, and who now sees slipping away his last chance to stand on a balcony, even if it would’ve been behind a bigger man.
Xenos
“Green Earings”, long à favorite Steely Dan tune, turns out to have some ugly implications if you read the lyrics closely enough.
Xenos
Rudy was a successful prosecutor, but he is absolute shite as a defense counsel.
Honus
@Ruviana: “if I fell” is pretty grim too. It’s about the old girlfriend crying when she sees “we are two”
Brachiator
@JPL:
If Reince is there, it probably means that the GOP has decided not to disavow Trump. Their ethical moment was short lived.
They’re with Trump until the end.
frosty fred
I’ve been spending far too much time reading comments here lately, but one thing I don’t think I’ve seen come up: it’s an article of RWNJ faith that everyone is a hypocrite. Anyone with a good reputation just hasn’t been found out yet. “You’re entitled to your opinion” is code for “We both know you’re lying, but I can’t prove it.”
That must be a huge part of their acceptance of Trump, despite whatever comes out. They believe everyone else is just as bad but hasn’t been caught on tape. By the same token, they believe any negative about, well, I was going to say HRC but in fact it’s any Democrat, whether there’s evidence for it or not.
(Not saying this is reasonable, just that it’s a way of thinking).
JosieJ (not Josie)
@Corner Stone:
Trump wears expensive, imported Brioni suits but, since he has the attention span of a mongoose on speed, he can’t be arsed to sit still long enough to have them tailored. There was a Buzzfeed article awhile back with the great man dispensing his wisdom about $6000 suits: basically, he said don’t bother getting them tailored.
Which only confirms his stupidity: if you’re dropping $6K on a suit–and thereby paying for ultra service–why the hell wouldn’t you get it tailored to your frame?!
SRW1
I blame the Eurythmics:
Everybody’s looking for something
jake the antisoshul soshulist
Not music, but there is the disturbing robbery scene in Once Upon a Time in America. The creepiest thing is not the public rape, but the implied consent.
BTW, Baby Got Back. :-)
gbear
Misogyny pretty much killed The Knack’s career by the time their second album came out. Most of their songs treated women like shit.
Brachiator
@Shell:
And he was a private citizen, not running for president!
And it was just talk, locker room talk!
The excuses are endless. And this stuff about “ten years ago” is like Henry Hyde claiming that an affair in his 40s was a “youthful indiscretion.”
JPL
@Brachiator: It could mean that he was delivering an ultimatum, perform tonight or else.
Ruckus
@EthylEster:
I’ve heard it occasionally in my lifetime but it’s not universal for sure. There are other sayings along the same line of course, most of these seem to be used by young(er) guys (age or maturity or both) I heard this type of talk a lot more 40 yrs ago. It’s sort of bragging, I think the implication is that the feeling would be reciprocated. But hearing it from a 60-70 yr old? Can not recall ever. That’s one thing that makes Trump an even bigger ass, he’s 70 and acts like a 19 yr old ass.
cain
@schrodinger’s cat:
I prefer the tamil version… which I think was the original. I’ve never seen the video though, (or the movie). For some reason, the video never meets my expectations, and I hate being disappointed. I’m lame.
cain
@sukabi:
I hope they realize that if Der RapeHerrFuhrer gets to the presidency the payback that he is going to do is going to be collossal. The first order of business is goign to be going after everyone who talked ill of him during the election on the Republican side. Then the Democratic side. He will literally go to war on Congress and he’ll pick his own goddam SCOTUS picks and won’t give a shit of what the establishment wants.
Uncle Cosmo
I can’t believe we’re 173 comments in & no one has brought up 1971’s Aqualung:
yet the first lines of the title cut are
Then there’s “Cross-Eyed Mary:”
An otherwise brilliant compilation, but jeebus cripes…
(ETA: Upon further review, maybe we should save that for the opening of the “Trump-rapes-13-year-old” suit…)
Redleg
I don’t listen to hip hop so I would be lying if I said I was familiar with the lyrics. But that doesn’t matter at all. The GOP, the party of personal responsibility, would rather blame hip hop for Trump’s toxic language and actions. In other words, a 70 year old man cannot control himself and so it must have something to do with hip hop, a music genre populated mainly by black artists. Why is hip hop always getting the blame when a conservative gets caught saying something vile? Racial animus against blacks?
Honus
Psycho lyrics. This was written and recorded by two mainstream country stars
Can Mary fry some fish, Mama
I’m as hungry as can be
Oh lordy, how I wish, Mama
You could keep the baby quiet ’cause my head is killing
Me
I’ve seen my ex last night, Mama
At a dance at Miller’s store
She was with that Jackie White, Mama
I killed them both, and they’re buried
Under Jenkins sycamore.
Don’t you think I’m psycho, Mama
You can pour me a cup
If you think I’m psycho, Mama
You better let ’em lock me up
Don’t hand the george to me, Mama
I might squeeze him too tight
And I’m as nervous as can be, Mama
So let me tell you ’bout last night
I woke up in Johnny’s room, Mama
Standing right by the bed
With my hands near his throat, Mama
Wishing both of us were dead
You think I’m psycho don’t you, Mama
I just killed Johnny’s pup
You think I’m psycho don’t you, Mama
You’d better let ’em lock me up
You know the little girl next door, Mama
I think her name is Betty Clark
Oh, don’t tell me that she’s dead, Mama
Why I just seen It in the park
She was sitting on a bench, Mama
Thinking of a game to play
Seems I was holding a wrench, Mama
Then my mind walked away
You think I’m psycho don’t you, Mama
I didn’t mean to break your cup
You think I’m psycho don’t you, Mama
Mama, Mama why don’t you get up?
Say something Mama
debit
I give you Pat Travers.
No kiddin’
I’m ready to fight
I’ve been lookin’ for my baby all night
If I get her in my sight
Boom boom! RIGHT HERE! Out go the lights!
No kiddin’
I’m ready to go
When I find her boy don’t you know
If I get her in my sight
Boom boom! WHAT IS IT? Out go the lights!
I thought I treat my baby fair
I just found out she don’t want me here
If I get her in my sight
Boom boom! COME ON! Out go the lights!
I never felt this mad before
When I just found out she don’t want me no more
If I get her in my sight
Boom boom! COME ON! Out go the lights!
Brachiator
@JPL:
Delivering an ultimatum to Trump.
Now that’s funny!
Applejinx
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
In fairness, ‘Under My Thumb’ was written to offend, like ‘Brown Sugar’ and other shocking Stones rock songs.
Trump spoke to ingratiate, not to offend.
Carry on liking obnoxious music, it’s not at all the same thing. *puts on Dead Kennedys*
Ruckus
@Xenos:
Pretty hard to be an effective defense counsel when your client has bragged about the crime on tape. Let alone that Rudy is horrible all on his own.
Immanentize
@Pest Bog Mummy, Frakensteinbeck: Murder Ballads album by Nick Cave all good. Country Death Song by the Violent Femmes is the most psycho dark one I know….
RSA
As many others have said, a rap lyricist isn’t on the ballot come November.
I don’t listen to rap or hip-hop, but I’ve heard about some lyrics being misogynist. Here’s a sampling of songs about rape; I don’t know if they’re popular, but they’re very unpleasant.
jefft452
@RedDirtGirl: “How many ballads are there about pushing the woman into the river to drown, etc? It goes waaaaaay back”
“The wind and the rain” goes back to the 1550’s
As a bonus, it includes corpse desecration in order to get parts to repair a fiddle
schrodinger's cat
@cain: I love Shahrukh Khan and Malaika Arora dancing on top of the train. Its a Mani Ratnam movie, AFAIK simultaneously released in Tamil and Hindi.
polyorchnid octopunch
@AnotherBruce: There’s only one reason this is happening. Their electoral calculus wrote off the brown people a long time ago, but they *need* the votes of white women to win their elections.
They’re not even really defending white women; they’re defending the vote of the white women who may vote for them.
Their vote is the only thing they care about.
polyorchnid octopunch
@Uncle Cosmo: In defence of Aqualung, I’d point out that there are two main themes to that song; the one with the heavy guitar (that you quote) and the one with the acoustic guitar, and they represent two different things: the public perception of Aqualung and his internal life. The people around him see the shell-shocked old veteran as crazy, dirty, and possibly dangerous, while he himself ruminates on the pain of his homeless existence.
r€nato
so all I have to do to not be a hypocrite, is not vote for any rap musicians for POTUS? OK, deal.
jl
@r€nato: Shit. I misunderstood this damn post. I was thinking something happened where I’d have a chance to vote for Chuck D for pres. But looks like it’s just about dumb white bigot nonsense.