Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

Democrats are back in array!

Oh FFS you might as well trust a 6-year-old with a flamethrower.

Trump makes a mockery of the legal system and cowardly judges just sit back and let him.

The rest of the comments were smacking Boebert like she was a piñata.

Relentless negativity is not a sign that you are more realistic.

American History and Black History can not be separated.

It looks like winning debates is a black job!

This country desperately needs a functioning Fourth Estate.

“In the future, this lab will be a museum. don’t touch it.”

It’s a good piece. click on over. but then come back!!

Cole is on a roll !

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

Come on, man.

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

Yeah, with this crowd one never knows.

President Biden is doing good where he can, and getting it done.

I also would like a pony to improve my balloon juice experience.

The republican caucus is covering themselves with something, and it’s not glory.

DeSantis transforming Florida into 1930s Germany with gators and theme parks.

It’s easier to kill a dangerous animal than a man who just happens to have different thoughts/values than one’s own.

The problem people have with Biden’s age is the color of the VPs skin.

If you’re looking for someone who’s young and athletic, go watch a fucking movie.

You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2016 / Monday Morning Open Thread: Children Will Listen

Monday Morning Open Thread: Children Will Listen

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Good thing this is a federal holiday, because I suspect it’s not just the hardcore political junkies who stayed up late screaming & twitching after last night’s debate. Even the ‘principled’ Repubs, such as they are, have stopped muttering about SCOTUS and started asking each other if one short-fingered would-be caudillo can actually destroy a whole political party — and that’s if he doesn’t get the chance to destroy the whole country.

Apart from waiting for the next shoe to drop (the Trump campaign is a veritable human centipede), what’s on the agenda as we start the week?

Goal Thermometer

Reader Interactions

154Comments

  3. 3.

    Mustang Bobby

    Good morning, rikyrah.

    So Trump disavows knowing Putin but wants to emulate him. Hello, Canada, can you please annex the Florida Keys so I can live in a sane place and still be warm? Thanks.

  4. 4.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    They’re showing lots of clips of ‘sniffles’.

    ETA: These clips are not making Joe and Meeka’s case.

  12. 12.

    zach

    Anderson Cooper was REALLY insistent that Trump deny he’d ever sexually assaulted someone. Given that multiple women have already accused him of doing just that I’m guessing that’s the next shoe to drop.

  17. 17.

    amk

    @zach: I was watching some late night teann post debate panel and some Hillary campaign lady said that if the deadbeat thought it was about just one video tape and it was over with his non-apology, just wait till other things start dropping on him in coming days. I am betting more sexual assault exposures.

  22. 22.

    TS

    Trump stalking Hillary on the stage shows how he treats women – all the time. Those that do not see this are blind.

  27. 27.

    Hal

    Stopped what bleeding? That audio has probably swayed those it was going to and shit on Trump’s support. Again, his base support is there and always will be. That’s other the point. It’s those undecideds and fence sitters and the 10 to 15% not crazy Republicans that Trump could lose support from, and there goes the election.

  29. 29.

    BlueDWarrior

    @Hal: the zeitgeist was that he was going to be forced to leave the race somehow entirely; now it’s “The GOP is completely lashed to Trump and they are going to have to ride that atomic bomb to the ground, one way or another”

    I don’t think anyone with their head screwed on state think he’s going to go up in the polls, unless every Republican decides to metaphorically drink the Flavor-Aid re: him.

  30. 30.

    Aimai

    I think the reason Melania was in that bizarre outfit is that her arms, neck, and shoulders had his fingerprints sll over them. Ive thought since the first debate that he beats her when he gets frustrated or feels humiliated

  31. 31.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @Aimai:

    Ive thought since the first debate that he beats her when he gets frustrated or feels humiliated

    …and using the peruvian marching powder.

  34. 34.

    Baud

    From what I can tell, almost no one is talking about Trump’s attacks on Bill Clinton. That’s how horrible Trump was at the debate.

  38. 38.

    Kay

    I’m glad she has an extraordinary amount of self discipline so mostly pretends he isn’t there but that slipped a little last night when she said his campaign was imploding. I guffawed because it’s true, he knows it’s true and he was furious.

  39. 39.

    amk

    @Kay: There is a video clip that shows how she got under his skin in under 20 seconds. The pig can’t stand women standing up to him.

  42. 42.

    TS

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    I doubt that him talking over Hillary and Martha Raddatz will be thought of highly.

    It wasn’t the talking – it was the movement behind Hillary all the time – he would not sit – he would not stand still – he followed her whenever she was talking. Maybe men don’t notice such things?? It was clear as clear to women that he was trying to intimidate her.

  44. 44.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    Joe and Mika have got to be two of the most dimwitted people on the planet. All of their observations and analysis are about what “everyone seems to be saying” and “isn’t it funny that we were all saying X just a few days ago and now we’re all saying Y”. It’s like two of the most low-information voters given microphones and put on TV.

    MSNBC can be okay at times but it would be nice to have something to switch on some mornings when getting ready for work, can someone start a network that doesn’t give mornings over to a not very bright and not very informed ex-Newt Gingrich crew frat boy? Thanks.

  45. 45.

    satby

    Reading the overnight debate threads was as close as I ever want
    To come to watching der Trumpenfuerher’s performance. I had to spend 8 years turning off any media that had the Shrub’s face or voice on it, and I do the same for the current abomination.

  47. 47.

    Kay

    @amk:

    He loathes women, in my opinion. The looming and staring at her is an intimidation tactic and she’s simply not afraid of him. I’m embarrassed for the country because his one trick pony intimidation tactics are so childish and simple. It’s like watching an over-indulged 3 year old imitate an adult. Good God but people are easily impressed.

  48. 48.

    Patricia Kayden

    @amk: The rumor I’ve heard is that there is a video of Trump using the “N” word during the filming of “The Apprentice”. Would be just more confirmation that he’s a bona fide racist.

  49. 49.

    TS

    @Baud:

    Billy Bush suspended by NBC.

    Yet Trump goes on.

    Obviously a morning TV presenter is held to a much higher standard than a Presidential nominee. Trump didn’t fall over screaming last night so Morning Joke is singing his praises and explaining that no-one cares about the video any more.

    Billy Bush sure cares about the video.

  50. 50.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    Billy Bush suspended by NBC.
    Yet Trump goes on.

    I thought the same thing. LOW standards on the Right. Rock bottom.

  51. 51.

    Immanentize

    Hello, All

    @BillinGlendaleCA: the Russia connection is my guess as well because Hillary set it up three times and it is the tooic they got Trump to disagree with Pence on.

    Or just as likely Russia AND assault.

  57. 57.

    Kay

    CSPAN did callers before the debate. First caller, Republican, wanted Trump to be asked whether he would prosecute Clinton “when” he is President.

    This will be an ugly, ugly loss for them because every time they lie to their base and insist all Democrats are unindicted criminals their base turns that around to “Republicans are weak and won’t lock up these criminals”

    This has been going on since January of 2009. It’s a cycle they can’t break- they say Democrats are criminals, their base blames them for not prosecuting the people they said were criminals.

  58. 58.

    amk

    @Patricia Kayden: Horrible as it is, that’s not going to move the needle much with the fucking ‘undecided/indie’ voters, who are perfectly ok with racism. But more sexual abuse videos might. Especially with women.

  62. 62.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    I think a big lesson here is that while most of us thought his first debate performance was a disaster for him mainly because he babbled incoherent nonsense, a not insignificant chunk of the population thought he was bad mainly because he was too meek and polite, making him look weak, flustered and dominated.

    Last night he still babbled incoherently but seen through an entirely different set of filters, since he was “strong” this time, Nigel Farage says that he “dominated” her, Morning Joe et al say he “stopped the bleeding” and Andrew Sullivan says now he could win the election.

    Not for the first time in this election about half of what’s depressing is seeing how hideous and idiotic Trump himself is, and the other half seeing how hideous and idiotic giant portions of the country are.

  66. 66.

    Kay

    @TS:

    Morning Joke

    Well, they promoted Trump. They know him personally. They meet with him.

    Cable news has taken a real hit on credibility. Have any of them uncovered a single new thing about Trump? What do the giant staffs at those places do all day? It can’t take a full day to do Jake Tappers makeup. They repeat stories other outlets turn up and they can’t even do that accurately. They act as if Wikileaks is a research department.

    Maybe they should cut the bloated salaries of the top people and hire some journalists to work below the stars. The Washington Post can’t keep the whole profession afloat.

  68. 68.

    Immanentize

    @Baud:
    Pence is pensive:
    “Should I stay or should I go?
    If I go there will be trouble
    If I stay there will be double…”

  69. 69.

    Aleta

    First politely intimidate. If that doesn’t silence them, threaten. Then open fake investigation. Then arrest. All the great leaders in the world rule like this.

  71. 71.

    TS

    @amk: Hopefully all sane folks saw it as creepy

    @Bill E Pilgrim: Good to note it is men that are turning on sixpence because Trump didn’t foul himself on the stage (He did at one stage look to be contemplating what to do with a chair).

    No woman who saw that debate – unless one of the 27%, thinks Trump did well, nor do they think he could now win. Whoever let Andrew Sullivan back to have his hissy fits in public should have their media outlet closed down.

  76. 76.

    Kay

    The Trump Raddatz interaction was fascinating. Is there a female journalist who has stood up to him who he hasn’t attacked?

    Women who confront him enrage him. He’s got real issues. That Party has issues with women though. Paul Ryan with his 1950’s attitude- women should be revered. Get lost. I don’t need nor want his reverence. The thought of it makes me squirm uncomfortably. Yuck.

  77. 77.

    amk

    Since the deadbeat dick thinks twitter will win him for it, going by that metric, many tweets from totally unknown people mocking his debate ‘performance’ have much more, if not equal, RT’s and fav’s than his nutter base freeped tweets. So, on that count too, he is a loser.

  78. 78.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    They’re probably much more influential with less engaged voters than cable news is. It has to seep past the spin people on cable and enter the bloodstream.

  83. 83.

    TS

    @Kay: Most the rest of MSNBC wrote Trump off on Sunday. To my utter amazement, Chuck Todd said he will not recover, he called Giuliani on his nonsense & Steve Schmidt gave the Presidency to Clinton and the Senate to the dems on the show. Pre the debate the onscreen commentators were very negative towards trumps games with the “Press Conference”

    Apart from those games and saying nothing of merit in the debate AND leaving his press corps in New York (presumably so no-one found out about his devious behavior) we have Morning Joke given 3 hours to sing Trumps praises. You are right – there credibility has been ruined by Trump, as he has ruined many careers of soon to be former GOP politicians.

  84. 84.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Kay:

    Paul Ryan with his 1950’s attitude- women should be revered.

    I caught that. Made me laugh. “Dude, it’s 2016. Catch up, will ya?”

  85. 85.

    Kay

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    One of my sisters has occasional anxiety issues- she says the sniffing is an attack. He’s anxious- it’s gasping for air without opening your mouth. It makes her uncomfortable enough that she can’t watch him anymore- she recognizes it.

  87. 87.

    Barbara

    @Kay: I suspect that Ryan’s attitude comes from a specific religious orientation, in which the Virgin Mary is held up as the perfect woman. The idea that reverence is a form of objectification that puts women in a prison of virtue is way outside of Ryan’s zone of understanding.

  88. 88.

    Aleta

    @Kay: Yes, I noticed he was sniffing nervously in his videotaped deposition before a judge. (For a lawsuit involving a chef who ended a contract to open a restaurant in old PO building after Trump’s Mexican insults.)

  89. 89.

    Kay

    @TS:

    I struggle with it though with “establishment” people because they really are out of touch with the country as a whole, and the GOP base.

    That’s why they got the primary wrong. I’m not banking on what they say because they ARE out of touch. That is TRUE about them. Usually I could rely on the conventional wisdom but they actively denied that the GOP and the GOP base were going off the rails. That makes them not credible to me.

    Steve Schmidt is mourning because he “doesn’t recognize the GOP”. The problem with that is that he’s now a pundit who doesn’t recognize the GOP. They treat these voters as if they landed from Mars. They didn’t land from Mars. This has been getting worse since 2009. THEY just refused to see it.

    90% of what their base believes is not true. Making predictions about what those people might do or not do? Hard.

  90. 90.

    Kay

    @TS:

    I got the primary wrong. I can’t predict the GOP base either, and I live and work among them. We don’t have a single elected Democrat here in local government. I’m with them all goddammned day and I can’t predict what they’ll do, but Steve Schmidt can? I don’t think so.

  91. 91.

    TS

    @Bill E Pilgrim:

    Re Sullivan, no kidding. My “idiotic” part was strongly aimed at him. What a clown.

    Hard to forget how he gave the election to Romney in 2012. He lived for years on his implosion about Palin on Bill Maher.

  92. 92.

    Grumpy Code Monkey

    if one short-fingered would-be caudillo can actually destroy a whole political party

    Once more, with feeling – the GOP owns 30+ state houses and Governor’s mansions. They’re likely to hold the US House of Representatives. They’ll hold enough Senate seats to filibuster everything to death.

    Trump isn’t going to destroy the party. He may tarnish it a bit, at least until the next midterm election, but it ain’t going anywhere. It’s past time we let go of that fantasy.

  93. 93.

    gene108

    @TS:

    As a guy I did not notice the standing up all the time as an intimidation tactic. It just did not register.

  94. 94.

    Waldo

    @Baud:

    Pence canceled a New Jersey event today.

    I don’t get it. Is his strategy to hide under his desk for the next 4 weeks? How does this help?

  96. 96.

    Kay

    I have a fence around my back yard. Every 2 years I paint the fence. It’s right inside the property line so to paint the outside of the fence I have to stand on 3 different neighbors property. There’s a rental property behind me so I stood in their yard for 20 minutes when they weren’t home (I thought) to paint that portion over Labor Day. The tenants change a lot so I don’t know them- I know the other neighbors. They complained. I told them “I can’t paint the fence without standing there” and they just stared at me.

    They have a Trump sign.

  99. 99.

    Matt McIrvin

    @TS: Didn’t McCain get knocked for stalking around in a similar way during his townhall with Obama?

  101. 101.

    bemused

    @Kay:

    Women are just things to Trump, imo. In the Trump/Billy Bush video, Trump looks at woman and says “IT looks good” and he has used the word IT instead of she/her another time, iirc, about a woman in bikini at a pool party.

  102. 102.

    Gin & Tonic

    Here’s Reuters this morning:

    U.S. stock index futures rose on Monday after Democrat Hillary Clinton was widely seen as the winner of the second presidential debate.

  104. 104.

    D58826

    Saw an article on twitter that Roger Stone has been bankrolling some of the women accusing Bill Clinton of misconduct. Now I’m not saying that Bill was innocent of all the charges but I always thought that with all of the money floating around at the time some of these women may have been tempted to cash in. 15 minutes of fame and all of that. IIRC Kathleen Willey was shopping a book about her experiences at the same time the Starr inquisition had to give her a second immunity agreement. Seems she lied and violated the terms of the first one.

    One of the ‘hoist on your own petard’ moments involved Paula Jones. She spent a lot of time claiming that the clenis had a distinguishing mark on it. Well as part of the Monica investigation, said member was examined by a doctor. Seems that the member was totally unremarkable in appearance. So much for Paul Jones and the truth.

  105. 105.

    Barbara

    @Grumpy Code Monkey: Yes, that’s true, but to a significant degree, the local antics have been empowered and enabled by a supine United States Supreme Court — blatant voter suppression, gerrymandering, etc. It won’t be overnight, and it won’t be everywhere, but the conditions that make the state level soil so fertile for right wing take over will change if there is sustained Democratic leaning federal rule.

    Also, seeing Trump as a “single caudillo” is to fail to notice that he received millions of votes. It’s those voters who are en route to changing the party from one that ignores them beginning the Wednesday after election day until the next election cycle into one that will have to live with the consequences of what those voters want or think they want.

  108. 108.

    gene108

    @Grumpy Code Monkey:

    I agree.

    As much as we like to mock Palin, for example, for being not smart, she has a cunning that let her win high elected office and then use her celebrity to have both influence in the GOP and make millions in the process.

    There are far savvier operatives in the GOP, who have access to unlimited corporate cash via the Koch brothers and other billionaires, who are just waiting for 2017 to come around, so they can unleash their new GOP branding.

    These guys shook off the stink of Bush & Co by the summer of 2009 and got people mad to indifferent about President Obama, who was the most inspirational and popular people elected to that office in decades.

    They’ll get a big assist from Fox News and other right-wing news outlets that are treated as real news outfits by the rest of the MSM. Plus the MSM hates Hillary, so as long as no other Republican office holder or seeker says “grab them by the pu$$y”, Trump will be a distant memory by February.

    His candidacy will be written off as an aberration, caused by strange outside forces that are not representative of the real GOP.

  110. 110.

    Kay

    @bemused:

    The part that is disturbing to me about the Bush and also the Stern tapes is Trump is so easily led.

    Stern is toying with him – it’s a dominance conversation. It’s about which man can make the other man lower his standards. Stern won. He was able to make Donald Trump throw his own daughter under the bus.

    Donald Trump wants to fit in. He wants what he perceives to be social status, and he only respects men so he only cares when men challenge him to a dick-measuring contest. He’s easy to manipulate because he’s desperate for the approval of other men.

  112. 112.

    MomSense

    @Aimai:

    I’m afraid for her. Her stare is vacant as if she has completely shut down emotionally. I looked at some old pictures of her last night just to see if here had been a change and it was really striking. Yes, there is an intense sort of model stare that she has always used in certain situations but not like her expression last night. There are a lot of photos of her from before this election when she is with her son and she has a lot of life in her eyes and smile. That is totally gone now. She has shut down emotionally and I’m really worried for her.

  113. 113.

    Barbara

    @D58826: The under oath testimony of Clinton and Jones was remarkably consistent: he asked, she eventually said no, and suffered no adverse employment action that could be tied to whatever happened between them. I read the original summary judgment briefs to the trial court after the Supreme Court let it proceed and I knew she was going to lose her case. Broaddrick too said under oath that she had not been assaulted. Ken Starr didn’t even think about using her as a witness. So Clinton was capable of being a dog. It’s not and never has been his wife’s fault. This “she enabled him” crap is really insulting to women, especially when you consider how humiliating it is to even know that something like that happened, never mind the rest of the world knowing about it too.

  114. 114.

    James E Powell

    @Barbara:

    the conditions that make the state level soil so fertile for right wing take over will change if there is sustained Democratic leaning federal rule.

    Agreed. Many people do not realize that from the enactment of the Voting Rights Act till this very day, there has never been a sustained Democratic leaning federal rule, particularly on the supreme court.

  115. 115.

    TS

    @Kay:

    I got the primary wrong. I can’t predict the GOP base either, and I live and work among them. We don’t have a single elected Democrat here in local government. I’m with them all goddammned day and I can’t predict what they’ll do, but Steve Schmidt can? I don’t think so.

    I have no time for the pundits who swing on sixpence from day to day. I was just slightly amazed to see a “meet the press” edition that was not praising the GOP or saying “both sides”. If Trump were winning they would still be praising him to the hilt. Winning is all the GOP wants. Why folks (other than the 1%) vote for them is well beyond my understanding.

  116. 116.

    gene108

    @Barbara:

    The gerrymandering, voter suppression, etc did get a big assist from the Roberts Court, but Democrats still lost state wide races in reliably Democratic states, in 2014, like Illinois, Massachusetts and Maryland.

    Democrats have a problem that is a bit deeper than just court decisions.

    I think Democrats try and want to do so much, it is hard to define what they stand for to a lot of less engaged voters.

    I kind feel this is one reason Bernie became so popular. Both he and Hillary advocated for the same things, but that did not register with a lot of folks.

    They could not accept a Democrat like Hillary was actually for universal affordable healthcare or making college affordable. They did not register that rank-and-file Democrats have been pushing for universal healthcare since FDR and Truman.

    I do not know how to solve this image problem. But the Democrats have a brand image issue, which needs to be fixed before Republicans can be truly vanquished.

  117. 117.

    Barbara

    @TS: Sam Wang said as much in his latest analysis of the election. In his view, it’s because Trump was already losing ground that the tape of his disgusting comments caused such an earthquake among other Republican candidates.

  118. 118.

    Kay

    ‘Trump was so bad, he made the dog throw up.’ Debate watching w Matt Borges of OH, a possible post-@Reince RNC head

    The Ohio thing is interesting, because Kasich really is their template for a return to national norms. Kasich won 25% of the AA vote AND he won his base, who are white suburbanites.

    The GOP base hate him. The Trumpsters hate him for obvious reasons but the anti-Trump base hate him too because he stayed in and split the anti-Trump vote.

  119. 119.

    Baud

    @TS: After Trump loses, the media and Republicans will have many a guffaw about Trump’s antics.

    @gene108:

    Dems try to do to much because the various parts of the coalition demand it.

  120. 120.

    TS

    @gene108:

    As a guy I did not notice the standing up all the time as an intimidation tactic. It just did not register.

    I think you were not alone. Look back and notice that Hillary sits quietly in the chair provided while Trump is speaking. He gets close to her in the early part of the debate & if he does stay near his chair – he does not sit. He is a very tall, large man – for me it was very intimidating. Hillary appeared to ignore it – not sure how it affected her. I’ve not seen another person in a Presidential debate act in this fashion.

    He also kept hold of his microphone the whole time – always ready to interrupt and get in an extra word.

  121. 121.

    Barbara

    @gene108: The Democratic problem in midterms is fairly straightforward. The difference in voting turn out between older and younger voters has always existed. The difference in voting patterns between older and younger voters has never been greater. That makes midterm elections much more likely to shift power towards Republicans. Gerrymandering makes it worse because even districts that can be blue tend to be at risk as a result of the differential turn out. But in the long run, changing the generational pattern even slightly will do a lot to lessen the issue. 2006 was a midterm election. It’s not necessarily a forever problem.

  122. 122.

    Baud

    @Kay: Glad to hear it, because the media would love him.

    This election has proven to me that we’re not strong enough to take on a hostile media.

  123. 123.

    Barbara

    @TS: I doubt she was intimidated. She’s pretty tough and Rick Lazio tried the same tactic or a variation of it. She’s been in the public eye with SS protection for a long time.

  124. 124.

    TS

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Didn’t McCain get knocked for stalking around in a similar way during his townhall with Obama?

    My memory is that he was just wondering around the stage in a bewildered fashion. I don’t think President Obama felt stalked or intimidated (unless I am thinking of a different debate to you?)

  125. 125.

    Betty Cracker

    @Bill E Pilgrim:

    Andrew Sullivan says now he could win the election.

    He’s a hysteric — always has been, always will be. Trump was already on a path to defeat, and his campaign officially became deader than dog shit when the pussy tape dropped.

  126. 126.

    bemused

    @Kay:

    Yes, it is pretty easy to see the pattern of how easily he is played, at least for many of us. His rabid fans, otoh, are even more susceptible to getting played. They really, really want to believe him, that he takes them seriously, that he is one of them, eerily similar to Trump wanting to be taken seriously, respected and accepted by a segment of elite, wealthy society…a goal, from what I have read, that has eluded him.

  127. 127.

    Kay

    Kushner, whose father went to jail after making sex tape of his brother-in-law w/a prostitute, is his father’s son:

    Boy, I hadn’t heard that bit of Trump family history. I was under the impression he was the respectable moderate in the family, entourage, co-conspirators, whatever they are.

  128. 128.

    D58826

    @TS:

    As a guy I did not notice the standing up all the time as an intimidation tactic. It just did not register.

    As another guy, the intimidation part did not register either. What did register is this is an angry man trying not to lose what little self control he has and just waiting to interrupt. On MSNBC Nicole Wallace (a GOPer) said that if she had been walking down the street and some guy was doing that she would be dialing 911 post haste.

  129. 129.

    hueyplong

    Speaking of played, Kellyanne Conway played Chris Matthews, then told him to his face that she had just done so (in the immediate post-debate exchange in which they talked about the pre-debate “confronters”). Surely that went over Matthews’ head, because if it hadn’t, Matthews would have demonstrated the extent to which he shares Trump’s dislike of any female getting over on him in any way.

  130. 130.

    Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap

    Here’s a fun headline:

    The GOP Needed Trump to Win or Self-Destruct. He Did Neither.

    Over at Washington Monthly, link.

  131. 131.

    Hal

    @Bill E Pilgrim:

    Last night he still babbled incoherently but seen through an entirely different set of filters, since he was “strong” this time, Nigel Farage says that he “dominated” her, Morning Joe et al say he “stopped the bleeding” and Andrew Sullivan says now he could win the election.

    I feel like any other election year, the doness of the Trump campaign would be undeniable. We are less than 30 days from Nov 8 with the pussy tape and more to come. By next week CLinton will be close to, if not, double digits over Trump in multiple states he absolutely needs to win. These idiotic proclamations from people like Sullivan and Farage (BTW, who gives a fuck what he says?) are typical male opinions. He “dominated” her. Bullshit. Reminds of Clinton’s firsts senate race with whats his face that was initially thought to go bad for Clinton until the next day and all anyone could remember was the way Rick Lazio (I remembered) walked right up to her and invaded her space to try and force her to sign a pledge. This debate was the equivalent of that.

  132. 132.

    Kay

    The brain trust of conservatism weigh in:

    ‏@ByronYork
    Then, Trump showed strength in policy sections. Before, many observers would have predicted Clinton would crush Trump in both.

    Policy sections. Keep telling yourself that. It’s systemic. It’s rotten all the way thru. Tear it out and build new.

  133. 133.

    Kay

    Who won debate? Per CNN insta-poll
    · 64% of women say Clinton did
    · 49% of men say Clinton did

    That right there. It’s horrible to contemplate, but a portion of normal men are impressed with Donald Trump. Maybe 20%. They buy this bullshit. That 20% includes all white male pundits.

  139. 139.

    Botsplainer

    @Kay:

    Of men of my acquaintance, there are various categories of Trump support – about a third are total GOP homers who wince and check the GOP box regardless (because libruls), the next half are undereducated and think that the trappings of success indicate actual wisdom, and the remainder consisting of genuine deplorables, who are seriously into crushing minorities, gays and liberals, and who delight in the verbiage offered by Trump.

    It is really tempting to go full blast, but there are some genuinely not evil and potentially redeemable souls in those first two tiers.

  140. 140.

    SenyorDave

    @Kay: Who won debate? Per CNN insta-poll
    · 64% of women say Clinton did
    · 49% of men say Clinton did

    But he did still win men 49 – 38. He won women by 30+ points, men by 11 points. I watched with my wife, as much as I loathe Trump she had an even more intense reaction. I did not notice Trump hovering over Clinton until she pointed it out to me. Her reaction after the debate was that she couldn’t imagine a female of any age voting for Trump.

  141. 141.

    jonas

    @zach:

    Given that multiple women have already accused him of doing just that

    Including one who was allegedly only thirteen at the time. So yeah. There’s stuff out there.

  142. 142.

    Walker

    @amk:

    They claim that Clinton was wrong in saying Trump never apologizes, and then cite his “apology” for the 2005 Access Hollywood leak. That should tell you something about the fact checkers.

  143. 143.

    WereBear

    @jonas: I suspect there is a metric TON out there, kept in check with NDA and mutual destruction fears.

    Trump: besties with a convicted pedophile, now with a son-in-law who has family sex convictions, and then there is Trump’s obvious behavior towards women. There is one huge rock out there, with a LOT of maggots under it.

  145. 145.

    gene108

    @Kay:

    The Trump’s, at least in public, act like they like each other. There’s no open animosity between Donald and his remaining siblings (oldest brother Fred, Jr. drank himself to death in the late 1970’s, and was a bit of an outcast in the family).

    The Kushner’s publicly hate each other. Jared’s uncle got his father sent to jail.

  146. 146.

    Peter

    @Barbara: I feel like the circumstances of Juanita Broaddrick signing that affidavit (which is what it was, not testimony under oath) make it not entirely exculpatory. She was being harassed by media and lawyers about (what she claims as) her assault, and she asked the Clinton camp to make ignoring go away. They faxed over an affidavit that had been used in previous cases, had the details changed, and she signed it. That seems pretty consistent with the behavior of someone who was assaulted, traumatized, and desperate to get people to stop asking her about it.

    Of all of Clinton’s accusers, Broaddrick is the only one who I think has any credibility at all.

  147. 147.

    Barbara

    @Peter: I don’t know the answer, and it can’t really be known at this point. I will say what I have said before, which is that WJC would face a much more skeptical reception as a presumed candidate over these allegations if he were running now.

  148. 148.

    Matt McIrvin

    @WereBear:

    besties with a convicted pedophile

    Who Bill Clinton also knows (though my understanding is there’s far more evidence connecting Trump to his operation), which probably makes it harder to go there.

    I noticed months ago that Trump fans were actually going after the Clintons over this, even though Trump can be tarred worse with it. It’s the same pattern of getting your retaliation in first.

  149. 149.

    Kay

    ‏@people
    Today show coworkers want Billy Bush out: ‘It really seems like it’s time for him to go’

    Any random Today show employee has more courage than the entire GOP leadership. Higher standards, too.

  150. 150.

    Shalimar

    @WereBear: Trump was also good friends with John Casablancas, the Elite Modeling owner who statutorily raped hundreds if not thousands of underage girls over the years.

  151. 151.

    Shalimar

    @Kay: This came up back when Chris Christie didn’t get the VP nod. Christie was the prosecutor who sent Kushner’s dad to prison.

  152. 152.

    Matt McIrvin

    @gene108: I think part of the problem is that even many liberals have a Big Man theory of politics, in which the President is already some kind of dictator and is responsible for everything. It opens up a huge gap in accountability that is an opportunity for pure sabotage: all Republican politicians have to do is break everything. People hurt by Republican state policies and a Republican Congress will blame the Democratic President, and keep electing these guys forever. And progressives who believe in the Big Man just get siphoned off into quixotic anti-politics, anti-voting and third-party movements, because clearly nobody’s Big Man is good enough.

    The only thing that can ever dislodge the Republicans is for them to get the White House too, and enable a real catastrophe. And that reaction only lasts until the next Democratic President’s first midterm.

  153. 153.

    gwangung

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I think part of the problem is that even many liberals have a Big Man theory of politics, in which the President is already some kind of dictator and is responsible for everything.

    Bernie (cough) Sanders.

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