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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Bob Dylan Nobel

Bob Dylan Nobel

by DougJ|  October 13, 20169:04 am| 165 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads

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How do people feel about Bob Dylan getting the Nobel prize for literature? I don’t always love his lyrics, but “Simple Twist of Fate” and “Mississippi” are about my favorite songs ever in terms of lyrics.

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165Comments

  1. 1.

    Elizabelle

    October 13, 2016 at 9:05 am

    Surprising, and well deserved.

  2. 2.

    Cermet

    October 13, 2016 at 9:06 am

    Can’t see any reason why not – music can also be good literature

  3. 3.

    PaulWartenberg2016

    October 13, 2016 at 9:09 am

    It does reflect on how song lyrics = lyrical poetry or short narrative formats.

    BUT DAMMIT BEVERLY CLEARY ISN’T GETTING ANY YOUNGER!!!! /fume

    They should award Cleary for children’s literature, and create a separate award for song lyrics (Screw you, Grammys!). #NobelPrizeForLyrics hopefully the next winner will be Beyonce.

  4. 4.

    Keith

    October 13, 2016 at 9:10 am

    It is wonderful. A perfect, and perfectly positive distraction for the rest of the day.

  5. 5.

    p.a.

    October 13, 2016 at 9:11 am

    Wow. Great and deserved honor, works + influence. Wonder if DJ! will be the target of Dylanophile anger for questioning his genius.

  6. 6.

    JMG

    October 13, 2016 at 9:11 am

    First of all, it makes me feel old. I’m happy anytime something good happens to Dylan, but this is pretty weird. Matt Yglesias is right. There should be a separate Nobel for music.

  7. 7.

    Marc Montefusco

    October 13, 2016 at 9:11 am

    If you look at the cultural influence attributable to previous Nobel Literature laureates, and compare it with the influence Dylan has had on worldwide thought, music, literature, art, and politics, this award makes a lot of sense.

  8. 8.

    Thoroughly Pizzled

    October 13, 2016 at 9:14 am

    A worthy recipient. Much better than the Literature prize going to members of the awarding committee in 1974.

  9. 9.

    wonkie

    October 13, 2016 at 9:15 am

    I don;t begrudge hi his prize, but I’ve never thought his lyrics amounted to much more than rhyming word salad. I think he rates a Nobel more generally for a life time of creativity and devotion to music in its many forms and genre’s.

  10. 10.

    RK

    October 13, 2016 at 9:16 am

    The next debate should just be Dateline’s Chris Hansen walking out to the stage and telling Donald Trump to have a seat. — Maggie Klaus

  11. 11.

    dr. bloor

    October 13, 2016 at 9:17 am

    I like Dylan, but this strikes me as another instance in which a Nobel Committee aims to be “Smarter” than everyone else and hits “Clever.” See also: Obama, Barack.

  12. 12.

    Hiram Goldberg

    October 13, 2016 at 9:17 am

    Music isn’t literature. He stole most of his lyrics anyway, which I think is fine for lyricists in the folk tradition. Nobel prize? It’s not literature.

  13. 13.

    Brachiator

    October 13, 2016 at 9:18 am

    Great coverage in the Guardian, with some criticism of the selection. Apparently, there was some delay in the announcement, suggesting some division among the judges.

    I think it’s great.

    You used to be so amused
    At Napoleon in rags,
    And the language that he used

  14. 14.

    Ruviana

    October 13, 2016 at 9:19 am

    I’d been waiting for this post! Like some other commenters I’m not a “fan” of Dylan, but I recognize his wide influence on all kinds of music and probably on contemporary literature and poetry as well. When I saw it this morning I thought, wow, boomers represent! Cue the anti-boomer hordes in 3 – 2 – 1….

  15. 15.

    RK

    October 13, 2016 at 9:19 am

    “Praise be to Nero’s Neptune
    The Titanic sails at dawn
    And everybody’s shouting
    “Which Side Are You On?”
    And Ezra Pound and T. S. Eliot
    Fighting in the captain’s tower
    While calypso singers laugh at them
    And fishermen hold flowers
    Between the windows of the sea
    Where lovely mermaids flow
    And nobody has to think too much
    About Desolation Row”

  16. 16.

    SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch

    October 13, 2016 at 9:19 am

    I like Salman Rushdie’s tweeted comment:

    Salman Rushdie ✔@SalmanRushdie
    From Orpheus to Faiz,song & poetry have been closely linked. Dylan is the brilliant inheritor of the bardic tradition.Great choice.

    “Inheritor of the bardic tradition.” Nice.

  17. 17.

    WereBear

    October 13, 2016 at 9:20 am

    He is a poet. And hugely influential. What more could be asked?

    /fan

  18. 18.

    Marmot

    October 13, 2016 at 9:20 am

    Good lyricist. Great, sure. I’d be agog if he won the Nobel for listenability, though. Or Physiology or Medicine, for that matter.

  19. 19.

    FlipYrWhig

    October 13, 2016 at 9:22 am

    A boon to the feisty young newcomer’s career.

  20. 20.

    NotMax

    October 13, 2016 at 9:22 am

    Nice.

    Now he can afford those singing lessons.

    :)

  21. 21.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 13, 2016 at 9:22 am

    Meh. Makes me feel old.

  22. 22.

    MattF

    October 13, 2016 at 9:23 am

    @Ruviana: Speaking of which.

    Another American immigrant Nobel– Yeah, Minnesota to NYC, but that’s quite a leap.

  23. 23.

    SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch

    October 13, 2016 at 9:23 am

    @Brachiator:

    Did you see this in the Guardian story?

    (ETA: Sorry, forgot link https://www.theguardian.com/books/live/2016/oct/13/nobel-prize-in-literature-2016-liveblog)

    (ETA2: Sorry again, here’s the right link https://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/sep/29/swedish-cientists-bet-bob-dylan-lyrics-research-papers)

    Group of Swedish academics – authors of papers such as Nitric Oxide and Inflammation: The Answer is Blowing in the Wind – reveal 17-year bet: whoever has written most articles including Dylan quotes before going into retirement wins a lunch at a local restaurant

  24. 24.

    Gindy51

    October 13, 2016 at 9:25 am

    As long as he doesn’t sing, fine.

  25. 25.

    Richard Grant

    October 13, 2016 at 9:26 am

    I think that Dylan deserves more awards but I would rather that the Nobel organizations and other award-grantors create new categories. What Owen Ellickson is doing with his on-going Trump Leaks twitter series — which Joss Whedon described as “his Mamet-meets-Lumet twitter radio drama” — deserves lasting recognition. https://twitter.com/onlxn

  26. 26.

    dr. bloor

    October 13, 2016 at 9:26 am

    @Gindy51: The speech will require close captioning.

  27. 27.

    Nina

    October 13, 2016 at 9:26 am

    If David Bowie and Prince were still alive I might argue it, which makes me sad. Makes me sadder to think that perhaps their passing opened the way to concentrate the votes for Dylan.

    Fuck you, 2016.

  28. 28.

    gbear

    October 13, 2016 at 9:27 am

    My favorite Dylan lyric is “Tangled Up In Blue”. Well, maybe in the top 5.

  29. 29.

    Ruviana

    October 13, 2016 at 9:28 am

    @MattF: Lol! I’m gonna try! Already got a beatdown at LGM!

  30. 30.

    Elizabelle

    October 13, 2016 at 9:34 am

    @gbear: Yes. Tangled /Blue is my internal soundtrack today.

  31. 31.

    RK

    October 13, 2016 at 9:35 am

    @Gindy51: Dylan’s a great singer whether you like his voice or not.

  32. 32.

    The Moar You Know

    October 13, 2016 at 9:35 am

    How do people feel about Bob Dylan getting the Nobel prize for literature?

    Discredits the entire institution and meaning of the Nobel.

    Yes, I’m serious.

  33. 33.

    Gertrude the Duck

    October 13, 2016 at 9:36 am

    No. I like Dylan, but (a) I think he’s a bit overrated lyrically and (b) why not use the Nobel to focus on novelists/poets who don’t get enough praise to begin with?

  34. 34.

    Chyron HR

    October 13, 2016 at 9:37 am

    Well, that puts Jethro Tull and Steely Dan’s Album-of-the-Year-as-Lifetime-Achievement-Award Grammys in perspective.

  35. 35.

    dogwood

    October 13, 2016 at 9:37 am

    “Sometimes even the President of the United States must have to stand naked.” Positively 4th Street.

  36. 36.

    Wag

    October 13, 2016 at 9:38 am

    Hurricane.

    In this one song he ties all of America’s challenges in a complex box that ends with Buddha sitting in a cell, waiting for redemption.

  37. 37.

    Punchy

    October 13, 2016 at 9:39 am

    The speech will require close captioning.

    This shit is comedy gold.

    I might add….for his real fans, that captioning better be in size 28 font.

  38. 38.

    Bostonian

    October 13, 2016 at 9:39 am

    Dylan didn’t get the Nobel because his garbled live version of Maggie’s Farm is great listening. He won it because he straddled the worlds of poetry and popular music and permanently changed the course of the latter through infusion of the former. His lyrics by themselves deserve consideration among peers like Ferlinghetti, Ginsburg, and Eliot. The fact that so many millions heard these lyrics represents a unique contribution to world culture.

  39. 39.

    Thoroughly Pizzled

    October 13, 2016 at 9:41 am

    @The Moar You Know: Nah, not really. If Kissinger or giving the Medicine prize to the inventor of lobotomies didn’t kill the Nobel Prize, nothing will.

  40. 40.

    jake the antisoshul soshulist

    October 13, 2016 at 9:44 am

    “I try my best, to be just like I am,
    but, everybody wants you to be just like them.”

  41. 41.

    Brachiator

    October 13, 2016 at 9:44 am

    For the Dylan haters, a dismissal from Irvine Welsh.

    I’m a Dylan fan, but this is an ill conceived nostalgia award wrenched from the rancid prostates of senile, gibbering hippies

  42. 42.

    Betty Cracker

    October 13, 2016 at 9:46 am

    @Bostonian: Exactly right.

  43. 43.

    germy

    October 13, 2016 at 9:48 am

    Someone at LGM called it Peak Boomerism.

  44. 44.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 13, 2016 at 9:48 am

    @RK: He makes the most of it. For the record, I am firmly in the camp of “singing is not for only those with beautiful voices”. Singing is for everyone.

  45. 45.

    Brachiator

    October 13, 2016 at 9:48 am

    @SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch: Who knew that Swedish academics could be so droll.

  46. 46.

    germy

    October 13, 2016 at 9:50 am

    Does anyone else remember his book Tarantula? I remember reading it when it was first published; I think I checked it out of a library and I haven’t read it since. I wonder how it holds up. Maybe I can find a paperback in my local used bookstore.

  47. 47.

    Hoodie

    October 13, 2016 at 9:50 am

    He’s a major poet with a massive body of work, much of which is iconic. I don’t see how this is any more controversial than the choice of other poets. In fact, he has reached a much wider audience than most, which I suspect is behind some of the controversy. Some must think that you have to labor in relative obscurity to be a real artist. True, many great artists have labored in obscurity, but it’s not like baking your bread on dung makes you a prophet.

  48. 48.

    rob!

    October 13, 2016 at 9:51 am

    Love the guy. Seen him 21 times in concert. Do a podcast on him: http://fireandwaterpodcast.com/show/pod-dylan/

    Well deserved.

  49. 49.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 13, 2016 at 9:51 am

    @germy: They weren’t far off.

  50. 50.

    sherparick

    October 13, 2016 at 9:51 am

    Blood on the Tracks is amazing. I still have the album I bought when it was released in 1973. http://lyrics.rockmagic.net/lyrics/bob_dylan/blood_on_the_tracks_1975.html

    From Tangled up in Blue:

    So now I’m goin’ back again,
    I got to get to her somehow.
    All the people we used to know
    They’re an illusion to me now.
    Some are mathematicians
    Some are carpenter’s wives.
    Don’t know how it all got started,
    I don’t know what they’re doin’ with their lives.
    But me, I’m still on the road
    Headin’ for another joint
    We always did feel the same,
    We just saw it from a different point of view,
    Tangled up in blue.

    (

  51. 51.

    evap

    October 13, 2016 at 9:53 am

    Sorry, I’m a Dylan lover, but I think it’s ridiculous.

  52. 52.

    Brachiator

    October 13, 2016 at 9:54 am

    I guess some reporters must ask Hillary and Trump what are their favorite Dylan songs.

  53. 53.

    germy

    October 13, 2016 at 9:55 am

    Music isn’t literature. He stole most of his lyrics anyway, which I think is fine for lyricists in the folk tradition

    I didn’t know he stole lyrics. I know he had a reputation for “lifting” melodies (including his most well known “blowing in the wind”) and pissing off the other folkies, but I never heard anything about plagiarizing lyrics.

  54. 54.

    germy

    October 13, 2016 at 9:56 am

    @Brachiator: I’m guessing Hillary’s favorite is the Byrds’ version of Mr. Tambourine Man, while drumpf won’t know a single title.

  55. 55.

    Elizabelle

    October 13, 2016 at 9:56 am

    LA Times article, includes some Dylan comments from years ago interviews with Robert Hilburn:

    “My music comes from two places: white hillbilly music — Roscoe Holcomb, stuff like that — and black blues — people like Son House, Charley Patton, Robert Johnson. These are the two elements I’ve always related to best, even now,” Dylan told The Times’ Robert Hilburn in 1978. “Then, all of a sudden in the ’60s, I heard Woody Guthrie, which just blew my mind — what he did with a lyric. So, I stopped everything and learned his songs.”

    “That’s what kept me going,” Dylan continued. “I wanted to see how far I could take those elements, how well I could blend them together. Sometimes my music has gone a little to one side, but I’m always headed in the same direction.”

    The musician is the author of the books “Tarantula,” a work of experimental poetry that was first officially published in 1971, and Chronicles: Vol. 1,” a relatively straightforward autobiography that hit bestseller lists when it was published in 2004.

    “In the ’60s Time, Newsweek — all those magazines — started calling me the ‘father of the revolution,’ ‘the folk-rock king,’ and all that stuff. That’s when they created this ‘mythical Bob Dylan’ thing,” Dylan said in the 1978 interview. “What they say has nothing to do with me. It didn’t in the ’60s and it doesn’t now.”

    In 1985, Dylan talked to Hilburn again about his career. “When I see my name anywhere, it’s (often) ‘the ’60s this or the ’60s that.’ I can’t figure out sometimes if people think I’m dead or alive. But I’m not through….” the musician said. “I don’t feel old, but I remember in my 20s (when) I’d think about people in their 30s as old. The thing I really notice now is time. Things used to go a lot slower. . . . The days (now) go by so very fast. But I’ve never felt numb (about life). There is something about the chords, the sound of them that makes you feel alive. As long as you can play music, I believe, you’ll feel alive.”

    He plays at Desert Trip in Indio this weekend; was there last weekend too.

  56. 56.

    jon

    October 13, 2016 at 9:56 am

    @The Moar You Know: DYNOMITE!

    I’m not serious.

  57. 57.

    germy

    October 13, 2016 at 9:57 am

    Those Fabulous 60s!

    (National Lampoon Dylan parody)

  58. 58.

    SFAW

    October 13, 2016 at 9:57 am

    Well, I guess it’s better than awarding it to Dan Brown. Or Daniel Brown, for that matter.

  59. 59.

    SFAW

    October 13, 2016 at 10:03 am

    @germy:
    Lothar and the Hand People. Outstanding.

  60. 60.

    germy

    October 13, 2016 at 10:03 am

    If they’ve expanded the award to songwriters, I’d like to see Elvis Costello get the award in a few years. Finest lyricist of his generation, IMHO.

  61. 61.

    kindness

    October 13, 2016 at 10:05 am

    I could see Dylan winning a poetry prize. Literature though? Not so much.

  62. 62.

    germy

    October 13, 2016 at 10:05 am

    @SFAW:

    Lothar and the Hand People. Outstanding.

    I remember when that parody first came out, it was startling and hilarious. It seemed so absurd to have “60s nostalgia” packaged in the cheap K-Tel Records commercial format… but nowadays most young people wouldn’t even hear that Lampoon bit as comedy.

  63. 63.

    p.a.

    October 13, 2016 at 10:06 am

    Paraphrase: I listened to Lou Reed. He couldn’t sing. I can’t sing. Let’s sing!~ Iggy Pop.

  64. 64.

    RK

    October 13, 2016 at 10:06 am

    @Hiram Goldberg: He got caught plagiarizing from a Japanese novel some years back and one of his songs closely resembles a Burns poem but I’ve never heard anyone conclude he steals his lyrics, at least during his height.

    Let me forget about today until tomorrow

  65. 65.

    Raven

    October 13, 2016 at 10:08 am

    Listening to Isis on the x bike right now!

  66. 66.

    Barbara

    October 13, 2016 at 10:08 am

    I have to say that I am not thrilled, but I also have to say that it has been a while since I have been thrilled with Nobel literature prizes. I think that they are trying to expand the notion of literature, which is to their credit, but will necessarily result in disagreement. The truth is, the Nobel prize in literature has often been affected by a fairly myopic horizon of time and perspective. If you go back and look at a complete list, it will not take you long to figure out how hard it is to predict whose work will stand the test of time (even if we need to make allowances for the fact that Americans don’t necessarily have the last word on foreign authors, whose work they may not be familiar with). But if you had to pin me down, it’s hard for me to say that Bob Dylan is the equal of Pablo Neruda, W.B. Yeats, Ernest Hemingway, Eugene O’Neill, or Samuel Beckett. But most of the other winners are also not even close in stature to those august recipients either. So, you know, it’s just one year and one recipient.

  67. 67.

    CaseyL

    October 13, 2016 at 10:09 am

    It’s an excellent choice. His body of work, the quality of it, and how it has influenced culture and other artists, is outstanding.

    For many years, a new work by Dylan was Big News. I’m not sure why the fact that his work is popular makes him less deserving of a Nobel than someone whose work, while excellent, is known to a much smaller audience.

  68. 68.

    schrodinger's cat

    October 13, 2016 at 10:13 am

    What a curmudgeonly response from jackals and hyenas. I think Bobby deserves his Nobel. I discovered him after PBS did the show No direction Home. What he wrote is still topical today after nearly 50 years. All artists steal from others.
    I particularly like his earlier work
    *You have to serve somebody (unless of course you are a kitteh)
    * Hard rain’s going to fall
    * What did you see my blue eyed son

  69. 69.

    WereBear

    October 13, 2016 at 10:14 am

    Come on people. Not like it’s ABBA.

  70. 70.

    SFAW

    October 13, 2016 at 10:14 am

    @RK:

    and one of his songs closely resembles a Burns poem

    Wow, burnsie is a poet? Who knew? I thought he was “just” a lawyer.

    “The best law suits o’ mice and men gang aft a-gley” and all that.

  71. 71.

    SFAW

    October 13, 2016 at 10:16 am

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    What a curmudgeonly response

    You seem surprised. You new around here?

  72. 72.

    schrodinger's cat

    October 13, 2016 at 10:17 am

    @WereBear: Love Dylan, what’s so bad about ABBA, not all music has to be profound.

  73. 73.

    laura

    October 13, 2016 at 10:17 am

    It’s an interesting choice. It’s seems a counterpoint to last year’s winner Svetlana Alexievich who’s poetry gave voice to the suffering in Belarus.
    Dylan; like him, love him, or dismiss him; has also been a voice of a culture in flux. Influential in America and abroad.
    I dunno, these times having been a changing for so long, and there’s a good reason for resisting and speaking up in ordinary or not so ordinary ways.
    Masters of Wars, Knocking on Heaven’s Doors, Leopard Skin Pill Box Hat.
    Fine choice in my opinion -but it hardly makes up for that filth Kissinger.

  74. 74.

    schrodinger's cat

    October 13, 2016 at 10:19 am

    @SFAW: I thought a curmudgeon would get more love from fellow curmudgeons.

  75. 75.

    Hungry Joe

    October 13, 2016 at 10:20 am

    I’m a Dylan fan from way(way!)back, but … nah. So many great writers out there. It’s not an outrage, but, again … nah.

  76. 76.

    RSA

    October 13, 2016 at 10:20 am

    @Barbara:

    I think that they are trying to expand the notion of literature, which is to their credit, but will necessarily result in disagreement.

    I think so, too. I think that most people think of literature as something that’s independent of performance, which is generally the case for novels, short stories, and most poetry. Of course, this works less well for plays, and at least one playwright has won a Nobel prize, but you can still sit down, read a play, and make a judgment. I think it’s harder to separate Dylan’s lyrics from his own performance of the songs he wrote. Should we compare a body of song lyrics to a body of poetry, without thinking about the music? It’s “unfair” to the lyrics, but I don’t think music really falls under the category of literature.

  77. 77.

    SFAW

    October 13, 2016 at 10:21 am

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    what’s so bad about ABBA, not all music has to be profound.

    I guess “not profound” is just a different way of saying “insipid.” By extension, that probably qualifies Bulwer-Lytton for the Nobel Peace Prize for Literature. Or would, were he alive.

  78. 78.

    Barbara

    October 13, 2016 at 10:23 am

    @schrodinger’s cat: I will say that the Nobel Committee has consistently if not uniformly tried to single out for acclaim literature that is tied to the social and cultural context in which it was made. It has not generally rewarded literature that is rarefied or disconnected from society at large, with exceptions proving the rule: E.g., T.S. Eliot, whose stature was too great to overlook. I think that’s why it has proven so hard to select recent winners. So in that light, Dylan is a perfect choice.

  79. 79.

    SFAW

    October 13, 2016 at 10:24 am

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    from fellow curmudgeons.

    You’re not old enough to be a curmudgeon, unless I’m way off re: your age.

    Fuck LBJ. (Just some curmudgeon cred.)

  80. 80.

    schrodinger's cat

    October 13, 2016 at 10:26 am

    @SFAW: I was always a curmudgeon in spirit if not in age.

  81. 81.

    RK

    October 13, 2016 at 10:27 am

    @SFAW: Coulda been another poet come to think of it. Read about it a while back.

  82. 82.

    schrodinger's cat

    October 13, 2016 at 10:27 am

    @SFAW: Their music is good to dance to. I am not recommending them for a Nobel.

  83. 83.

    Tehanu

    October 13, 2016 at 10:30 am

    @kindness:

    What, poetry isn’t literature by you? Don’t be ridiculous. You remind me of the lady who complained that Hamlet was just a bunch of quotations. I can’t think of a single poet or any other kind of writer of the last fifty years who’s had more influence. and for good reason; why shouldn’t he get academic plaudits?

  84. 84.

    SFAW

    October 13, 2016 at 10:32 am

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Their music is good to dance to. I am not recommending them for a Nobel.

    That’s fine, but you were responding to WereBear’s comment re: ABBA and the Nobel.

    I was always a curmudgeon in spirit if not in age.

    You seem pretty un-curmudgeonly to me, most of the time.

    ETA: And curmudgeons don’t post kitteh pictures.

  85. 85.

    SFAW

    October 13, 2016 at 10:34 am

    @Tehanu:

    You remind me of the lady who complained that Hamlet was just a bunch of quotations.

    Which he stole from The Lion King, to boot. Well, the plot, I guess, not the actual quotes.

  86. 86.

    geg6

    October 13, 2016 at 10:37 am

    Aw, come on, Doug. If these aren’t some of the greatest lyrics ever written, I don’t know what would be. This song has come in handy numerous times in my life in numerous situations. Probably my favorite Dylan song of all time.

    You got a lotta nerve
    To say you are my friend
    When I was down you just stood there grinning
    You got a lotta nerve
    To say you gotta helping hand to lend
    You just want to be on the side that’s winning

    You say I let you down
    You know it’s not like that
    If you’re so hurt why then don’t you show it
    You say you’ve lost your faith
    But that’s not where it’s at
    You have no faith to lose and you know it

    I know the reason
    That you talk behind my back
    I used to be among the crowd you’re in with
    Do you take me for such a fool
    To think I’d make contact
    With the one who tries to hide what it don’t know to begin with

    You see me on the street
    You always act surprised
    You say, “How are you? Good luck.”
    But you don’t mean it
    When you know as well as me
    You’d rather see me paralyzed
    Why don’t you just come out once and scream it

    No, I do not feel that good
    When I see the heartbreaks you embrace
    If I was a master thief perhaps I’d rob them
    And though I know you’re dissatisfied
    With your position and your place
    Don’t you understand it’s not my problem

    I wish that for just one time
    You could stand inside my shoes
    And for just that one moment I could be you
    Yes I wish that for just one time
    You could stand inside my shoes
    You’d know what a drag it is to see you

  87. 87.

    oldster

    October 13, 2016 at 10:39 am

    I think it’s preposterous.

    I like Dylan okay, but he has gotten all of the recognition he ever earned, and then some.

    When you look at the list of people to whom they could have given the award, it contains many people who deserved this honor more than he did.

  88. 88.

    Just One More Canuck

    October 13, 2016 at 10:41 am

    Idiot Wind, blowing every time you move your teeth,
    You’re an idiot, babe
    It’s a wonder that you still know how to breathe

  89. 89.

    MomSense

    October 13, 2016 at 10:43 am

    @geg6:

    I love Dylan so much. My son and I went to see him five years ago or so when he was playing in Bangor at an outdoor, riverfront concert. Right before he took the stage, heavy fog rolled in so thick you could barely see your own hand held in front of your face. It was like the universe conspired to give him the best entrance ever. That was such a good concert.

  90. 90.

    Bobby Thomson

    October 13, 2016 at 10:44 am

    I’m all for it.

  91. 91.

    Van Buren

    October 13, 2016 at 10:45 am

    @Elizabelle: Mine also, but the Jerry Garcia version.

  92. 92.

    schrodinger's cat

    October 13, 2016 at 10:46 am

    @SFAW: Kittehs are the original curmudgeons! I am just paying them homage.

  93. 93.

    cmorenc

    October 13, 2016 at 10:46 am

    For literature, ok. But I went to a double-header Willie Nelson / Bob Dylan concert a few years ago, and Dylan’s behavior toward the audience who had eagerly come to see HIM and not just Nelson, was unforgivably rude. He walked onstage, sat at his keyboard at one side of the stage, and played his entire set without ONCE looking toward or in any way acknowledging or speaking to the audience. Not a single instance of eye contact even. By contrast, from the moment he walked onstage and throughout his entire set, Willie Nelson made everyone in the audience feel like welcomely invited guests to a party on his own back porch. Dylan OTOH was a complete asshole who will never get another dime from me.

  94. 94.

    NobodySpecial

    October 13, 2016 at 10:52 am

    Yeah, they need a separate Nobel for music.

  95. 95.

    gene108

    October 13, 2016 at 10:53 am

    @Thoroughly Pizzled:

    Nah, not really. If Kissinger or giving the Medicine prize to the inventor of lobotomies didn’t kill the Nobel Prize, nothing will.

    Lobotomies were one of the few solutions to deal with severe mental illness prior to anti-depression / anti-psychotic medication hitting the market in the 1950’s and 1960’s.

    It was, in its era, a real medical breakthrough.

    Kissinger…no committee is perfect…

  96. 96.

    SRW1

    October 13, 2016 at 10:58 am

    Dylan is an inspired choice. I’m a bit sad that Leonard Cohen likely won’t live long enough to also be honored with a Nobel.

  97. 97.

    Barbara

    October 13, 2016 at 10:59 am

    @geg6: Maybe among the greatest lyrics, but not among the greatest poetry. He writes what in earlier English periods was called the “plain” style, which is conversational and uses very little pure poetic (Petrarchan) imagery (“When I see the heartbreaks you embrace/If I was a master thief perhaps I’d rob them.”) Most of who we think of as the very greatest English poets merged the best features of both of these traditions into their work. John Donne and W.B. Yeats, for instance.

  98. 98.

    SFAW

    October 13, 2016 at 11:01 am

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Kittehs are the original curmudgeons! I am just paying them homage.

    Whatever you need to tell yourself to convince yourself you’re curmudgeonly, huh?

    “Kittehs are the original curmudgeons!” indeed.

    By the way: I never thanked you for the “Malhari” link from a couple of months ago. It’s a little cheesy, but I like it.

  99. 99.

    PaulWartenberg2016

    October 13, 2016 at 11:02 am

    HOW DOES IT FEEL?

    How does it feel?
    How does it feel?
    To be world reknown?
    With more Grammys at home?
    A complete showboater?
    Like a Nobel Laureate!

  100. 100.

    PaulWartenberg2016

    October 13, 2016 at 11:03 am

    I can’t get it to rhyme, man.

    Maybe if I asked this Bob Zimmerman fellah.

  101. 101.

    rikyrah

    October 13, 2016 at 11:07 am

    I am stunned. still don’t know what I think about it

  102. 102.

    SFAW

    October 13, 2016 at 11:09 am

    @PaulWartenberg2016:

    I can’t get it to rhyme, man.

    Needs more “orange.”

  103. 103.

    Lizzy L

    October 13, 2016 at 11:12 am

    I love it. Paul Campos at LGM haz a yuuuge sad about it because Philip Roth should have gotten it, and also Baby Boomers suck and should die already. F**k Philp Roth, and don’t worry, Paul, we Boomers are dying, and so will you, in your time. “It’s all right, Ma, I’m only bleeding.”

    Have I said that I love it? I love it.

  104. 104.

    schrodinger's cat

    October 13, 2016 at 11:12 am

    @SFAW: It is a bit cheesy. I am pretty sure the real Bajirao I did not dance, but its fun to see Ranveer Singh dance!

    Have seen Tattad tattad from Ram Leela? Sanjay Leela Bhansali (the director)’s visuals are gorgeous in that movie.

  105. 105.

    p.a.

    October 13, 2016 at 11:14 am

    Well, I rapped upon a house
    With the U.S. flag upon display
    I said, “Could you help me out
    I got some friends down the way”
    The man says, “Get out of here
    I’ll tear you limb from limb”
    I said, “You know they refused Jesus, too”
    He said, “You’re not Him
    Get out of here before I break your bones
    I ain’t your pop”
    I decided to have him arrested
    And I went looking for a cop

  106. 106.

    Waldo

    October 13, 2016 at 11:19 am

    Took a writing course with a Pulitzer-nominated poet back in the ’80s. He would not be pleased. Guy always resented that ’60s pop stars like Dylan and Paul Simon had collections of their lyrics published as poetry while many serious poets were scraping to get by. I imagine there are more than a few serious literary types seething this morning.

  107. 107.

    Marc

    October 13, 2016 at 11:19 am

    If you see her, say hello
    She might be in Tangier
    She left here last early spring
    Is living there I hear

    Say for me that I’m all right
    Though things get kind of slow
    She might think that I’ve forgotten her
    Don’t tell her it isn’t so

    We had a falling-out
    Like lovers often will
    And to think of how she left that night
    It still brings me a chill

    And though our separation
    It pierced me to the heart
    She still lives inside of me
    We’ve never been apart

    If you get close to her
    Kiss her once for me
    I always have respected her
    For doing what she did and getting free

    Oh, whatever makes her happy
    I won’t stand in the way
    Oh, the bitter taste still lingers on
    From the night I tried to make her stay

    I see a lot of people
    As I make the rounds
    And I hear her name here and there
    As I go from town to town

    And I’ve never gotten used to it
    I’ve just learned to turn it off
    Either I’m too sensitive
    Or else I’m getting soft

    Sundown yellow moon
    I replay the past
    I know every scene by heart
    They all went by so fast
    If she’s passing back this way

    I’m not that hard to find
    Tell her she can look me up
    If she’s got the time

  108. 108.

    SFAW

    October 13, 2016 at 11:19 am

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Have seen Tattad tattad from Ram Leela?

    Well, I have now. Please forgive me saying it, but THAT was about three orders of magnitude cheesier than Malhari. Yeah, I understand that’s part of the Bollywood mystique/appeal, but even a low-class curmudgeon such as I has SOME standards.

    But thanks for the link, in any event.

  109. 109.

    WereBear

    October 13, 2016 at 11:19 am

    @gene108: Lobotomies were one of the few solutions to deal with severe mental illness prior to anti-depression / anti-psychotic medication hitting the market in the 1950’s and 1960’s.

    If you leave aside a little thing like IT NOT WORKING, well then, sure.

  110. 110.

    Tom Shipley

    October 13, 2016 at 11:19 am

    I love Mississippi, not the album version, but this one:

    https://vimeo.com/180449762

  111. 111.

    Joel

    October 13, 2016 at 11:21 am

    So when does Rakim get his Nobel?

  112. 112.

    FormerSwingVoter

    October 13, 2016 at 11:21 am

    I can’t find the exact quote, but Dylan once said of Tangled Up In Blue, “It took me ten minutes to write it, and a lifetime to live it.”

  113. 113.

    Doug!

    October 13, 2016 at 11:29 am

    @Gertrude the Duck:

    I agree with you on (b) completely

  114. 114.

    Doug!

    October 13, 2016 at 11:31 am

    @Lizzy L:

    I love Phillip Roth.

    All prizes for intellectual achievement are silly. Their only value is publicizing things.

  115. 115.

    schrodinger's cat

    October 13, 2016 at 11:31 am

    @SFAW: Are you a guy of the straight variety? Its for the female gaze!
    This one may be more to your curmudgeonly taste.

  116. 116.

    the antibob

    October 13, 2016 at 11:32 am

    @wonkie: I assume “word salad” refers to the Highway 61 period lyrics. There’s a lot more to Dylan’s lyrics than that. He’s a master storyteller. I’d start naming examples here, but there are so many it’s pointless. A personal little-recognized favorite is “Black Diamond Bay”. A master class in narrative poetry.

  117. 117.

    Brachiator

    October 13, 2016 at 11:42 am

    @Waldo:

    Took a writing course with a Pulitzer-nominated poet back in the ’80s. He would not be pleased. Guy always resented that ’60s pop stars like Dylan and Paul Simon had collections of their lyrics published as poetry while many serious poets were scraping to get by.

    What a sad poet. In a song, the lyrics are made subordinate to the music. But poetry obviously grew out of a connection to accompanied performance.

    And the idea that “real” art must be “serious” to be valid is very flawed.

  118. 118.

    low-tech cyclist

    October 13, 2016 at 11:43 am

    I think I quoted Leonard Cohen’s retelling of the Abraham and Isaac story last night in that thread, so equal time for Dylan here:

    Oh, God said to Abraham, “Kill me a son”
    Abe said, “Man, you must be puttin’ me on”
    God said, “No” Abe say, “What?”
    God say, “You can do what you want, Abe, but
    The next time you see me comin’, you better run”
    Well, Abe said, “Where d’you want this killin’ done?”
    God said, “Out on Highway 61”

    Yeah, I’m good with Dylan getting the Nobel. A way better choice than frickin’ Kissinger.

  119. 119.

    Steve Finlay

    October 13, 2016 at 11:49 am

    I’m definitely a boomer (born in 1967), but I’m ambivalent about this. Yes, Dylan was influential. But I have always said there are only four things he can’t do: sing, play harmonica, play guitar, and write songs. My impression is that he wrote so many lyrics that a few were good just by accident.

    What he did do, I suspect, was inspire many people who became far superior songwriters, such as Leonard Cohen and John Prine.

  120. 120.

    SFAW

    October 13, 2016 at 11:49 am

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Are you a guy of the straight variety?

    Bigot! Does it matter?

    Its for the female gaze!

    No shit?

    This one may be more to your curmudgeonly taste.

    Curmudgeons have taste? Nice looking woman, choreography was somewhat interesting. But I’m getting the idea that a Ram Leela dance number is pretty much the same — with some differences, of course — through most of his oeuvre. And is Ranveer Singh a latter-day Mifune/Shimura to Leela’s Kurosawa? (Ignoring the differences in quality, of course.)

  121. 121.

    Brachiator

    October 13, 2016 at 11:53 am

    @Doug!:

    All prizes for intellectual achievement are silly.

    So, the Super Bowl trophy is more important that the Nobel Prize for Physics or Chemistry.

  122. 122.

    cokane

    October 13, 2016 at 11:53 am

    poetry is meant to be read aloud/heard anyways

  123. 123.

    Marc

    October 13, 2016 at 11:54 am

    A lot of people confuse “not to my taste” with “bad” in music. Dylan was enormously influential, which is a major consideration for a Nobel prize.

  124. 124.

    Keith

    October 13, 2016 at 11:56 am

    @germy: I’m sure it has legs

  125. 125.

    WereBear

    October 13, 2016 at 11:56 am

    It’s not like they went for Rod McKuen.

  126. 126.

    petesh

    October 13, 2016 at 11:56 am

    Tonight’s gig (in Las Vagas) should be historically awesome!

  127. 127.

    Uncle Cosmo

    October 13, 2016 at 11:56 am

    @PaulWartenberg2016:

    It’s only marble till you quarry it
    Take up your chisel & you worry it
    Into a statue then they jury it
    With so much fawning that you’re sorry it
    Every saw the daylight so you bury it
    Like a Nobel Laureate

  128. 128.

    Gin & Tonic

    October 13, 2016 at 11:58 am

    @Doug!: Would you turn down a Fields Medal?

  129. 129.

    MoeLarryAndJesus

    October 13, 2016 at 11:58 am

    @JMG: Yglesias can go pound sand. Bob rules.

  130. 130.

    John D

    October 13, 2016 at 11:58 am

    @kindness:

    I could see Dylan winning a poetry prize. Literature though? Not so much.

    Given that the VERY FIRST Nobel for Literature prize was for poetry (and it’s been awarded many, many, many times since for poetry), trying to claim that poetry isn’t literature is going to get short shrift with the Nobel Foundation.

  131. 131.

    jl

    October 13, 2016 at 11:59 am

    When the media does spots on his prize, they should take the trouble to play something with lyrics that Dylan wrote, rather than when he covered old standards. Other than that, I have no problem. I see some famous lyrics in the comments above. Shouldn’t be hard to find something.

  132. 132.

    SatanicPanic

    October 13, 2016 at 12:00 pm

    He’s not my favorite, but I never thought being poetry stops being poetry because it’s set to music.

  133. 133.

    Brachiator

    October 13, 2016 at 12:04 pm

    @oldster:

    When you look at the list of people to whom they could have given the award, it contains many people who deserved this honor more than he did.

    From the Guardian, a discussion of who was in the running before Dylan was announced.

    What are the odds for this year’s prize?

    Ladbrokes today has Ngugi wa Thiong’o as as favourite at 7/2, with Haruki Murakami tied with the Syrian poet Adonis at 6/1.

    Italian scholar Claudio Magris jumped from 33/1 to 12/1 this morning, while Don DeLillo was a surprise entrant into the top 10 earlier in the week….

    On the Guardian books desk we’re hoping for someone from the world beyond Europe. A woman would be good, too – Svetlana Alexievich’s win last year only went a tiny way to addressing the historical imbalance. But if it must be a white European bloke, how about Spain’s Javier Marías (currently 16/1)?.

    Which works of these individuals do you recommend?

  134. 134.

    SFAW

    October 13, 2016 at 12:07 pm

    @SatanicPanic:

    He’s not my favorite, but I never thought being poetry stops being poetry because it’s set to music.

    Except for Greg Lake

  135. 135.

    Gin & Tonic

    October 13, 2016 at 12:08 pm

    @Brachiator: Javier Marias’ Your Face Tomorrow trilogy is transcendent literature, even in English translation.

  136. 136.

    SatanicPanic

    October 13, 2016 at 12:08 pm

    @SFAW: I… don’t know who that is

  137. 137.

    MoeLarryAndJesus

    October 13, 2016 at 12:08 pm

    @oldster:

    When you look at the list of people to whom they could have given the award, it contains many people who deserved this honor more than he did.

    Whatever, chuckles. When I look at the list of people to whom they have given the award in the past, it contains many people who deserved the honor less than he does.

  138. 138.

    cokane

    October 13, 2016 at 12:09 pm

    btw playwrights have also won the nobel for literature — writing meant to be heard and not read

  139. 139.

    patrick II

    October 13, 2016 at 12:20 pm

    It is great. I hope Willie Nelson wins the next one.

  140. 140.

    SFAW

    October 13, 2016 at 12:20 pm

    @SatanicPanic:

    Emerson, Lake & Palmer.

    Author (I believe) of “Still You Turn Me On” and these immortal lyrics:

    Every day a little sadder
    A little madder
    Someone get me a ladder

  141. 141.

    Brachiator

    October 13, 2016 at 12:21 pm

    @low-tech cyclist:

    Yeah, I’m good with Dylan getting the Nobel. A way better choice than frickin’ Kissinger.

    Well, Kissinger’s band wasn’t as good as the musicians who played with Dylan.

  142. 142.

    Brachiator

    October 13, 2016 at 12:30 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Javier Marias’ Your Face Tomorrow trilogy is transcendent literature, even in English translation.

    Thanks for the recommendation. I will check it out.

  143. 143.

    burnspbesq

    October 13, 2016 at 12:47 pm

    I was expecting it to be Don DeLillo, who is richly deserving. And if one were to hypothesize a Nobel for music, Dylan wouldn’t be at the head of the line; John Adams, Wayne Shorter, Kaija Saariaho, Steve Reich, and Bruce Springsteen would all, in my estimation, be at least equally entitled to consideration.

    But I’m OK with it.

  144. 144.

    schrodinger's cat

    October 13, 2016 at 1:02 pm

    @SFAW: Got it, will not inflict you with any more popular Hindi film music again.

  145. 145.

    Doug!

    October 13, 2016 at 1:39 pm

    @burnspbesq:

    I’d like to see Don DeLillo get it too. A true pioneer.

  146. 146.

    bluefish

    October 13, 2016 at 1:40 pm

    Let’s hope he shows up to make an acceptance speech and is as notoriously cranky as always. Don’t Look Back. I was happier with Saul Bellow’s win but that’s just me and, anyway, good for him. And for us? Wonder if folks are trying to raise our ground in the dust spirits on this side of the pond. Dylan’s lyrics certainly seem to fit the current moment like a custom tailor made suit.

  147. 147.

    Doug!

    October 13, 2016 at 1:40 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:

    No, but that is perhaps the silliest of all the prizes because of the age limit, and because it celebrates individual “genius” rather than (usually group) accomplishment.

  148. 148.

    Jeffro

    October 13, 2016 at 1:41 pm

    Jason Isbell tweeted something about songwriters and musicians “having come a long way from being treated almost like court jesters”. Not a bad insight.

  149. 149.

    Durindal

    October 13, 2016 at 1:46 pm

    Never been a huge Dylan fan myself – a few songs here and there but that’s about it. … But I suppose that a bunch of dudes in Sweden know better than me. And I’m still upset that they took so long to recognize Doris Lessing… Suppose I really need to let that one go… Anyway

  150. 150.

    jk

    October 13, 2016 at 2:09 pm

    @Doug!: @burnspbesq:

    I like DeLillo. Also too, William Gaddis and Thomas Pynchon. So many worthy novelists, poets, and playwrights (ie the recently departed Edward Albee). I love Dylan, but this choice was absurd.

  151. 151.

    Gin & Tonic

    October 13, 2016 at 2:27 pm

    @jk:

    William Gaddis

    You have to be alive to get a Nobel.

  152. 152.

    jk

    October 13, 2016 at 2:36 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I know that. Those names were simply the first ones that came to my mind when I thought of the most deserving candidates for this prize. I’m a big fan of Gaddis and he got screwed over by these douchebags.

  153. 153.

    Keith G

    October 13, 2016 at 3:42 pm

    In 1963, not a lot of other songs were being written in the USA with the content of Masters of War….

    You fasten the triggers
    For the others to fire
    Then you set back and watch
    When the death count gets higher
    You hide in your mansion
    As young people’s blood
    Flows out of their bodies
    And is buried in the mud

    Dylan helped build a intellectual space that nurtured some of the changes which were the trademarks of 60’s culture and beyond, here and in many other lands.

  154. 154.

    chromeagnomen

    October 13, 2016 at 3:52 pm

    @The Moar You Know: completely agree. i go back to the beginning with dylan. remarkable song writer and lyricist. but—song writer and lyricist. if you want to stay within these narrow confines, he deserves some kind of award for a lifetime of poignant protest songs, heartfelt relationship stories, keen insights into human behavior. but if one ventures outside the music, hthe depth of his insights diminishes markedly. i don’t fault him for this; if you try to get too deep a message into a song, you run the very real risk of losing the easy grasp of everyday experience that is a necessary for public consumption.

  155. 155.

    schrodinger's cat

    October 13, 2016 at 4:34 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: Doug! is jealous because mathematicians don’t get a Nobel, unless they are slumming and doing physics or econ.

  156. 156.

    John Manchester

    October 13, 2016 at 4:53 pm

    These just from “Visions of Johanna”

    Lights flicker from the opposite loft
    In the this one the heat pipes just cough
    The country music station pays soft
    But there’s nothing, really nothing to turn off

    The ghost of lectricty howls in the bones of her face

    But Mona Lisa must have had the highway blues
    You can tell by the way she smiles

  157. 157.

    TriassicSands

    October 13, 2016 at 6:55 pm

    @The Moar You Know:

    Discredits the entire institution and meaning of the Nobel.

    I agree. There are been worse Nobel selections, but without taking anything away from Dylan’s songwriting, a Nobel prize for “literature” is not appropriate.

  158. 158.

    Elizabelle

    October 13, 2016 at 6:59 pm

    Just watched PBS SnoozeHour on B. Dylan.

    And am just smiling. Will be smiling all evening. So happy he is getting the recognition, and before an obit.

    Mr. Dylan performs in Las Vegas tonight, and will be in Indio (Palm Springs) this weekend.

    And he maintains a vigorous touring schedule. Hope he keeps at it. Inaudible as his speech/singing at concerts may be.

  159. 159.

    MoeLarryAndJesus

    October 13, 2016 at 7:10 pm

    @TriassicSands: Just screw up your face and issue a loud harrumph. It would mean so much more.

  160. 160.

    debbie

    October 13, 2016 at 7:36 pm

    @Cermet:

    His lyrics alone stand as poetry (esp. Every Grain of Sand and Chimes of Freedom). It’s high time they’ve been acknowledged as literature.

  161. 161.

    JR in WV

    October 13, 2016 at 10:25 pm

    @Brachiator:

    Well, since I’ve never heard of this Irvine Welsh guy, Fuck him. Bob Dylan is a genius, and as literate as any songwriter around anywhere, ever. Most deserved not scientific Nobel Prize in a very long time.

    Hadn’t heard about the lobotomy guy getting the Prize for medicine, that’s pretty ironic.

    Ah, looked him up, author of Trainspotting, which I do know. I’ve always been terrible, completely unable to connect most authors -> books. Also have trouble with people’s names. Don’t care for the book at all, tho. So totally wrong about Bob, jealous I’m thinking.

  162. 162.

    JR in WV

    October 13, 2016 at 10:32 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    I’ve liked and respected Dylan since 1968, when I went to college, and the folk/rock movement was swelling. Have seen him somewhat recently, our seats were just right of the sound box, so we heard it as well as anyone could.

    If you write as much as he does, impossible not to sound like random other songwriters from time to time. Complaining about that is like complaining about plot devices in SF/Fantasy being copied.

  163. 163.

    JR in WV

    October 13, 2016 at 10:43 pm

    @cmorenc:

    You never know. Maybe he had a migraine and tried to do a good show anyway. He’s obviously an emotional guy, maybe something went wrong in his life before the show.

    Did he perform well, or just go through the motions? You don’t say. I bet the sounds were good, as good as he could make them under the circumstances.

    We saw the Dead several times, and they weren’t always great by any means. I was a huge Marcia Ball fan, but when we saw her from the 4th row, she was completely detached from the band and the crowd. Very sorry performance. But I don’t hate her for that… she played the piano well, sang her songs. Just didn’t have that fire.

    Dr John. Great live performer, stupendous talent, but the albums, nothing there, ever. Music is performance, it’s hard. Dylan creates new music all the time, tours all the time, year ’round. You can’t be hot and on the beat 24/7/365 for decades every show.

    So ease up on him.

  164. 164.

    Shannon

    October 16, 2016 at 8:37 pm

    @dr. bloor: Yeah, perhaps the Nobel Prize needs Dylan more than he needs it

  165. 165.

    Shannon

    October 16, 2016 at 8:38 pm

    Yeah, perhaps the Nobel Prize needs Dylan more than he needs it.

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