Yesterday, as we were jointly consuming barrels of popcorn while watching the Trump campaign reap the whirlwind, some of y’all mentioned Rush Limbaugh’s odd Trumpologia, which centered on the concept of consent. Here’s the mind-blowing quote from that ass pustule which sparked the conversation:
You know what the magic word, the only thing that matters in American sexual mores today is? One thing. You can do anything, the left will promote and understand and tolerate anything, as long as there is one element. Do you know what it is? Consent. If there is consent on both or all three or all four, however many are involved in the sex act, it’s perfectly fine. Whatever it is. But if the left ever senses and smells that there’s no consent in part of the equation then here come the rape police. But consent is the magic key to the left.
FSM knows Limbaugh wasn’t the only Trump apologist saying absurd things for broadcast consumption yesterday. One of his more ridiculous surrogates went airplane armrest truther to try to discredit one of the women who accused Trump of non-consensual groping on a flight.
But I think Limbaugh’s failure to grasp the role consent plays in regulating behavior between human beings is telling. It’s an explanation for his own serial depravities, certainly, but perhaps it is also a portal into the wingnut worldview that can help us decipher their thinking and behavior more fully.
Trump views women as objects he can grab and manipulate for his own ends, and we’re seeing a fraction of the results of what happens when a man lives 70 years on the planet with that mindset. He’s not done yet, of course: rounding up the women who’ve accused Bill Clinton of sexual abuse and displaying them at the recent debate was another example of Trump using women as a commodity.
If reports from the Trumpenbunker are to be believed, he plans to double down on that strategy. And if Hillary Clinton were to respond in kind, she might have to charter a fleet of 747s to transport Trump’s accusers to the next presidential debate.
But the problem isn’t just obvious creepers like Trump and Limbaugh: Apply their boggled view of consent beyond Trump’s serial molestations to actual GOP policy practiced by so-called respectable Republicans, and it explains a lot.
Mainstream Republicans like governors Scott Walker and Tom Corbett, as well as a number of House GOPers, support legislation to force women seeking an abortion to undergo invasive transvaginal ultrasounds. It may sound like “state rape” to you and me, but if women are merely fetus-bearing vessels without an claim to consent, what’s the problem?
Even the “Never Trumpers” are revealing their views of women as they criticize Der Gropenführer. Here’s the godly and upright Erick Erickson on Twitter this morning:
Donald Trump is Having a “Bimbo Eruption” and his supporters are behaving as they accuse the Clinton’s of behaving. https://t.co/BI21dDNI8B
— Erick Erickson (@EWErickson) October 13, 2016
See what he did there? In the featured article, he even helpfully links to a Wikipedia page describing the role of Bill Clinton campaign operative Betsey Wright in quelling rumors of Bill’s extramarital affairs, i.e., “bimbo eruptions.” Erickson unconsciously conflates consensual affairs with non-consensual groping, which is telling.
People like Erickson are going to solve the Republicans’ Trump problem? As my old ma used to say, “Bullshit!”
Anyhoo, as many have pointed out, 2008 taught us a great deal about America’s crushing problem with racism. And 2016 is revealing the depth of our misogyny problem. We’ve got a lot of work to do.
Trentrunner
Don Rumsfeld also famously exhibited consent confusion when, snidely commenting in the margins of a doc regarding the torture of extended forced positions, wrote “What? I can stand for eight hours without a problem!”
No distinction between wanting to do something and being forced to do something.
Privilege in action…
Humboldtblue
Well, as Booman points out, why aren’t you goddamned Liberals talking about Howard Dean’s over-the-top-pseudo-diagnosis of Trump’s cocaine abuse, huh?
HUH?
Corner Stone
Consent is the key, no magic needed, to respecting another adult as a full partner in the act(s).
Thoroughly Pizzled
I hope Trump ends up in jail.
comrade scott's agenda of rage
There’s’ nothing “mainstream” about governors like Walker and Corbett, they’re extremist.
Oh wait, that’s mainstream in the modern GOP.
The “Never Trumpers” and the rest of “mainstream” Repubs aren’t any different, policy wise, than Cheeto Donnie, they just don’t like the fact he’s ruder and cruder than they are–except for trade, his policies are not out of step with their’s.
Corner Stone
Oh, fuck. “The hacked, stolen emails raise real serious issues.”
Peter Alexander literally just said that on MSNBC.
tobie
Your post reminded me that what brought down Dominique Strauss-Kahn were not extramarital affairs but multiple assaults. The French found it easy to make this distinction. Why can’t we?
Corner Stone
They must have slipped shock collars on every single guest at the event Ivanka is doing in PA. It looked like she was taking questions from the audience and if not one single person said, “So, you know…” I would be regasting my flabbers.
singfoom
Yeah, that Rush quote was absolutely stunning. It is mind boggling that the idea of consent is mind-boggling. The funny thing is that Rush is right on one point, consent is the key. You can do whatever your freaky heart desires with any number of partners as long as everyone is consenting.
It is odd that that’s seemingly not ok. It’s along the same lines as the “as a father, as a husband” condemnations of Trump’s groping behavior. How about we start at “As a human being, I think that women are human beings too, and they have agency so this abuse upsets me because other human beings shouldn’t be treated that way.”
I think it comes down to an empathy problem. Whether it’s racism or misogyny. For some reason, people can’t be empathetic and consider the other person. The dehumanization of other groups is key to the success of demagoguery. And that’s what Trump’s campaign has been based on. I don’t think this is the end, it’s just the beginning. Just like a lot of old (and not so old) white people lost their fucking minds when Obama was elected, I think a lot of old (and not so old) men (mostly white men) are going to continue their crazy spiral or get newly crazy.
I can only hope that the Clinton administration kicks serious ass and gets things done and helps the economy out so these knuckledragging morons can be left in the dust and shut the fuck up finnally (they never really will)
Gin & Tonic
Some of last night’s apologias that I was unfortunate enough to see on Twitter were along the lines of “well, *of course* you don’t ask for consent before kissing someone.” Which so completely misses the whole power dynamic at work in all of the stories now coming out. Sure, I will admit, there have been times in the darkness of my past when I kissed a woman, on the lips, without stopping to ask “may I?” Of course it was with someone who was known to me, and was being led up to by appropriate circumstances, but that seems to make no never-mind to the troglodytes. Trump wasn’t sitting in front of the fire with these women, sharing a nice bottle of wine, with Barry White crooning in the background, he was on a goddamn airplane or elevator with someone he didn’t even know.
WereBear
To the power mad, consent is beside the point.
Wingnuts hate nuance, remember?
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@Humboldtblue: Chinchilla is such a tool.
Gin & Tonic
@Corner Stone: Did they put Mrs. Greenspan’s copy in front of him by mistake?
redshirt
That Limbaugh quote is gob smacking. Was he being sarcastic? Does he not really get it?
Patricia Kayden
@Corner Stone: If the emails have been illegally hacked, how can we trust anything that they reveal? Emails can be manipulated and altered. It’s obvious that the hackers are trying to get Trump elected and the media should be questioning why.
comrade scott's agenda of rage
@Gin & Tonic:
That’s what I was thinking!
Keith P.
CNN reporting that Chris Christie will be receiving a criminal summons over Bridgegate.
Corner Stone
@Gin & Tonic: Well, he was guesting on her show so she may have just shared hers with him. The polite thing to do, you know.
Patricia Kayden
@Gin & Tonic: In his “locker room” comments, Trump admitted that he gives in to uncontrollable urges to kiss beautiful women — consent wasn’t even mentioned. He’s a pig.
MattF
Reminds me of the old story about Bertrand Russell’s encounter with a Solipsist. She thought it was obvious that she was the only conscious entity in the universe– the only question was why anyone disagreed.
Major Major Major Major
@Corner Stone: Memeorandum is wall to wall “Trump is doomed and also sexually assaults women” right now so there’s nothing to worry about.
Patricia Kayden
@Keith P.: Remember him leading the “Lock Her Up” chants at the RNC? Karma sure is a b*tch!
Betty Cracker
@redshirt: It’s real, and it’s not sarcastic. You can listen to it in context from Limbaugh’s own gob by following the link. Honestly, I wondered about that too when I first heard people describing it, and I’ve believed that Limbaugh is a depraved creep for decades. But yeah, shocking, even for him.
sigaba
@tobie: Consentual affairs are bad for a lot of reasons, they can be examples of bad judgement, they usually show that someone is willing to betray people very close to them, and then lie to other to cover it up, that they’re indiscreet, stuff like that. For a public figure there’s also the blackmail issue. Secrets are just bad no matter the matter.
Of course people can have open marriages, that is a thing, and I’m not saying for example the Clinton’s have one. Though if they did have that sort of relationship and were public about it it’d probably be the end of both of their political careers. In France of course such marriages are not the ends of people’s careers.
cokane
Your closing lines are right Betty. We’re dodging a bullet with this election, and I dont want to underplay that, but it’s going to be a long four years (at least) on these issues.
raven
@sigaba: What the fuck are you babbling about?
Corner Stone
I wonder if Trump still believes in his mantra of, “There is no such thing as bad publicity”?
Stan
@singfoom: “You can do whatever your freaky heart desires with any number of partners as long as everyone is consenting.”
EXACTLY. It’s hilarious how he inadvertently almost gets it right. …..but then he doesn’t.
sigaba
@raven: Dominque Strauss-Kahn stuff. Good morning to you boss.
viking_kitten
Amanda Marcotte wrote a series of articles exploring Conservatives and their problems with the concept of Consent. I can’t find them ATM, but I believe she was writing for Pandagon and/or Raw Story at the time. At any rate, I think your observation is completely in line with hers. Conservatives as a group don’t seem to understand Consent, and it shows up in their attitudes toward all forms of sexual behaviors, but also other things.
Betty Cracker
@Corner Stone: Gropers / Putin admirers like Assange and Trump have to stick together. I expect a steady stream of emails from now until election day. It won’t matter a whit.
Iowa Old Lady
I had to reread the Limbaugh quote a couple of times to figure out what he meant. Consent is the ticket? No duh.
redshirt
@Betty Cracker: Jeez. Everytime I think we reach the bottom with these slimeballs, they go even lower. He’s speaking like he’s discovered this secret liberal principle, when in fact it appears he’s stumbled upon a basic human right. But doesn’t understand it.
nonynony
I think that is literally the nicest thing that Limbaugh has ever said about liberals as a group. Liberals value consent between adults in sexual relations more than anything else? Hell yeah we do!
The fact that he somehow thinks its a slam reminds me of MRAs thinking that the term Social Justice Warrior is a slam and how stupid they sound when they use it. Which part do you hate? The social justice or the willingness to fight for it? Same here – which part do you hate Rush? The libertine values of the left, or the fact that consent is mandatory even among the people you view as the most libertine of libertines and you consider it optional?
raven
@sigaba: “Consentual affairs “
low-tech cyclist
@singfoom:
Quoting because it can’t be said enough.
Humdog
You would think that Limbaugh et al would be excited to finally learn a magic word that will allow them all the sex they can get. But no, they don’t want consented to sex, they want take it from her sex, or really, they want to dominate a woman to do whatever they feel like.
In an odd way, I kinda get their astonishment. When you think you have the world figured out, it seems obvious that everyone else would see it the same way. We are all astonished that they don’t get what is obvious to us either.
sigaba
@raven: Yeah it’s redundant just making the distinction more plain. You want me to change it? I might still have edit on it, does it bother you?
Keith P.
@Patricia Kayden: He was sticking his chin out.
burnspbesq
@Corner Stone:
I’m guessing that he chose not to explain what those serious issues are.
chopper
consent: society’s rubik’s cube.
Corner Stone
My God, Andrea Mitchell is absolutely devastated that a political operation sent emails back and forth arguing about policy and political machinations!
*FEINTS*
Woodrowfan
they don’t understand consent.t hat’s why they think arguments against marriage equality like “then people can marry dogs!” or “then people can marry children!” make sense. the idea that both parties have to be able to agree is foreign to them.
PPCLI
@Corner Stone: Did he mean that the content of the emails raised questions, or the fact that they were hacked and stolen raised questions? The first is just silly, unless there is something in there that nobody has noticed yet. The second is reasonable.
Corner Stone
@burnspbesq: Well, there are questions that have been raised by these leaked emails, you understand.
WereBear
@Humdog: Perhaps Limbaugh does not understand consent because no one has voluntarily slept with him.
Nick
Eh, Erick Erickson has consistently opposed Trump (I think, don’t follow him closely); and he and his wife are both dealing with potentially fatal diseases; they have young kids; there are plenty of people on the alt-right to hate who are deeper in than he is. I don’t see anything in that tweet that needs to be singled out.
Corner Stone
@Iowa Old Lady:
Consent is the ticket to Godless depravity!
piratedan
you see… I really want to take a baseball bat to Limbaugh’s knees, because there’s such an overpowering feeling of good that surges through me when I am hitting him with that bat, why its almost sexual. You mean Rush won’t let me do that? Why? It feels good for me, isn’t THAT what really matters?
///killjoys
NR
The problem is, down-ballot Republicans are not suffering even as Trump collapses at the top of the ticket.
If the Republicans hold the Senate this year, it will have to go down as one of the biggest missed political opportunities in quite some time.
Poopyman
Mrs. P saw this quote this morning and couldn’t believe it. Also too, she pointed out that “consent is the
magic key to the leftlaw”.craigie
Ok, I’ve done some things I’m not proud of, but I’ve never done that.
Lurkypants
Remember the freakout a couple of days ago when they were trying to say that Hillary was worse than Trump because she admires Beyonce, who sings, “When he fuck me good I take his ass to Red Lobster?”
They really can’t see the difference. They think the problem is the language, not the power dynamic and the boundary-crossing (not to mention the illegality). Beyonce’s talking about rewarding her man for good consensual sex with Cheddar Bay Biscuits. Donald’s talking about sexual assault.
redshirt
@NR: There’s Debbie Downer! GLOOM! DOOM! Sanders is the Light and the Way!
piratedan
@craigie: well candles, you gotta have candles…
Poopyman
@WereBear:
Adjusted. Remember Rush’s staycations down in the Dominican Republic.
eric
@NR: missed how? if America’s voters dont come out or dont come out and vote, and we then get a republican senate, there is NO way you can blame it on the dems. i hate the BS that the dems ran weak candidates. if there are weak candidates it is because the strong ones did not run or lost to the weak ones. there is no smoke filled room. So, for example, if McGinty loses, it is because a “stronger” dem could not beat her in the primary.
Gin & Tonic
@Betty Cracker: Yesterday RT led with the Podesta e-mails story before Wikileaks posted anything.
sigaba
@Nick: It’s interesting because he’s a NeverTrumper but doesn’t seem to have a grasp of Trump’s actual political weaknesses.
The NeverTrumpers have reasons for their opposition but a lot of it boils down to Trump not being under the thumb of the Kochs and the religious establishment, having slightly heterodox economic policies, and tone. Also they don’t like him because the they knew he was a really bad candidate and had a huge chance of losing.
This is important because these reasons are totally not why Trump is actually losing, he’s losing because he’s a pig and an incompetent and an ego-maniac. NeverTrumpers don’t actually seem to mind these aspects of Trump on their face. It suggests NeverTrumpers will repeat the same mistakes, only with someone who can manage their image a little better and knows how to shut up.
chopper
@redshirt:
clearly, hilz is just the worst.
trollhattan
Suspect consent is a subset of “political correctness” that conservatives are convinced is the Real Problem. “If only I were allowed to really say what’s on my mind.” Stop repressing these people, you bastards.
Comrade Scrutinizer
@Corner Stone: Or partners, apparently.
piratedan
Ms. Obama speaking now
FLOTUS speaks
Gin & Tonic
@Corner Stone:
Nice. I thought you’d shutter, instead.
Bobby Thomson
@Humboldtblue: because it’s self evident that Dean was right?
wenchacha
Wow, FLOTUS! She rocks so hard.
Shell
Damn, Michelle Obama is burning down the house!
Corner Stone
@PPCLI: They all mean it in the sense of the first statement in your comment. The emails have statements in them that detail people employed by political operations engaging in politics and discussing policy. It’s horrifying to them and that kind of content raises questions and serious issues.
They want so badly, so very badly, to be attacking HRC on these emails and misconstruing every single out of context line by a staffer. They hate Trump for trumping these emails with Sex Scandal. Salaciousness beats policy out of context every time.
Lizzy L
For conservatives of Limbaugh’s persuasion, sex is fundamentally Dirty unless it is societally-approved sex — i.e. married men & women having babies. People should just want to do that, especially women-people, for whom is it the principal reason for their existence, so consent is either implied or not necessary. (I am sure that Limbaugh believes that a married man cannot rape his wife.) Other sexual acts, since they are Dirty, are BAD and consenting to them is BAD.
bystander
Michelle Obama is delivering a great speech in NH but MSNBC is delivering a shi**y feed.
Adam L Silverman
This is excerpted from a 2014 report I wrote on sexual assault, harassment, and rape for the US Army when my Commanding General was asked to look at the problem from the strategic and cultural levels:
American Cultural Concerns: Women’s Status in America and Attitudes Towards Women
As Gen. Walsh, as well as Zenko and Wolf observed in May 2013, no one enters the US military as a blank slate. Every Soldier, Sailor, Airman, or Marine brings with them at least two decades of socialization and acculturation to overall American norms and values, as well as to their numerous regional variations, those of their families, ethnic communities, and/or religious denominations. While America made great strides through the 20th Century towards greater inclusivity towards women, as part of the larger trend towards more inclusive civil rights and liberties for all American citizens, these gains are not uniform throughout society. Americans from more rural areas, from specific ethnic groups, and adherents to more traditional forms of religion often tend to hold more traditional views of sexuality, the interaction between men and women, and the appropriate roles for men and women in both the public and private realms of life(11). Often these bleed over into the popular consciousness, such as when women’s employment opportunities are limited due to things such as physical appearance.(12)
There is, however, an even more troubling socio-cultural downside to this. Sometimes it is referred to or reported as rape culture: the attitudes, norms, and values that allow men to view women as not being fully autonomous humans, but rather as objects to whom things can be done without their consent. It is this concept that is at the heart of the discussions and debates of incidents like the Stuebenville rape case, a similar incident in KS that actually drove the family from town, as well as a seeming rash of law enforcement officers sexually assaulting women under cover of law or officials directing law or rules against victims.(13)
While all of these incidents, and the ones that go under or unreported, begin to paint a disturbing pattern regarding a set of persistent negative norms and values towards women in America. What is even more disturbing are the hundreds of incidents where women were determined by law enforcement, courts, and medical personnel to be less than fully autonomous human beings, and therefore subject to having their rights and liberties curtailed for either being pregnant or because they might be pregnant.(14) Paltrow and Flavin document over 500 cases of pregnant women having their civil rights and liberties involuntarily curtailed, usually for trivial reasons such as a patrol officer’s concerns that the seat belt strap might harm the pregnant woman’s developing fetus, simply because they were or were suspected to be pregnant. While it would be an understatement to say that America has unresolved political and social issues regarding issues of women’s health, conception, and contraception, Paltrow and Flavin document a disturbing trend: if a woman in America is or could be pregnant, she is at risk of being reduced to second class citizen status due to others – law enforcement, medical professionals, and jurists – attitudes regarding women, their place, and their role in American society.
This abrogation of American women’s rights is both a disturbing socio-cultural trend, but it also points to a larger culturally bounded normative issue: in 2014 women’s legal and social status as fully and completely equal human beings and citizens is still not set and fixed. This is also reflected in other areas of American life, such as the still unclosed pay disparity between men and women, as well as the continued underrepresentation of women in corporate boardrooms, at the heads of major corporations, and in the state and federal legislatures. While the US military has often taken the lead on integration matters for women, ethnic minorities, and now on LGBT issues, the opening of the traditional male domain of combat arms is another place that the military is ahead of significant portions of the American citizenry. It is possible that the popular pushback in some segments of American society will contribute to the problem that Gen. Walsh, as well as Zenko and Wolf identified. Everyone that comes to the US military comes from an America that has conflicting norms and values regarding women, their roles, status, and rights. This may contribute to sexual violence in both America overall and within the US military.
11 Sally Daniels, Bradford Fay, and Nicholas Tortorello, “American’s Changing Attitudes Towards Women and Minorities”, The Public Perspective, DEC/JAN 1998, http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/public-perspective/ppscan/91/91047.pdf.
12 “Iowa Dental Assistant Faces Challenges Raising Young Family After Her Dentist Boss Fired her for Being “too Attractive” and a ‘Threat’ to his Marriage”, Daily Mail, 2 AUG 2013, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2383957/Iowa-dental-assistant-Melissa-Nelson- moving-court-ruling.html and “Elementary School Aide, 23, Suspended After Racy Modeling Photos were Sent to Staff”, Daily Mail, 23 JAN 2014, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article- 2544560/Elementary-school-classroom-aide-23-suspended-racy-modeling-photos-sent-staff.html.
13 David Edwards, “Texas Student Reports Rape and gets Suspended for ‘Public Lewdness’”, Raw Story, 23 DEC 2013, http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/12/23/texas-student-reports-rape- and-gets-suspended-for-public-lewdness/, David Edwards, “Texas Cop Arrested for Handcuffing and Raping 19 Year Old at Traffic Stop,” Raw Story, 24 NOV 2013, http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/11/24/texas-cop-arrested-for-handcuffing-and-raping-19-year-old-at-traffic-stop/, Eric W. Dolan, “Texas Deputy Accused of Raping Mother in Front of her Children Resigns”, Raw Story, 15 AUG 2013, http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/08/15/texas-deputy-accused-of-raping-mother-in-front-of- her-children-resigns/.
14 Lynn M. Paltrow and Jeanne Flavin, “Arrests of Pregnant Women in the United States, 1973- 2005: Implications for Women’s Legal Status and Public Health”, Journal of Health Politics, Policy, and Law, 15 JAN 2013.
singfoom
@NR: You can’t be serious. I mean, ok fine, it’s somewhat of a tossup on the Senate. Sam Wang has it at 67% that the Dems take the Senate.
But you don’t see the problem that the down ticket Republicans are in? Ryan got BOOOED after he denounced Trump. This is a hoooooorible time for downticket Republicans. If they stay with Trump, they lose moderates, if they denounce Trump, they lose base voters who think Trump’s just dandy.
But you don’t think it’s having an effect? Wat?
Betty Cracker
@Nick: Erickson and his wife having a potentially fatal disease is news to me, and I wish them well on that score. But if you don’t see what’s objectionable about equating women who’ve engaged in consensual affairs with women who were mauled by a stranger, I can’t help you.
@NR: LMAO! If the Democrats take the White House, Senate and House, you’ll show up on November 9th to whine about how it could have been so much more of a wipe-out wave of an election if only the Democrats hadn’t nominated that awful, horrible, heinous candidate Hillary Clinton. Sucks to be you.
trnc
Or, as I sometimes refer to them, “the police.”
Cermet
The issue is not just “consent” but implied “consent”. tRump feels that when a woman is ‘hot’ and aggree’s to be near him alone, then she is implying consent that that, by older understandings is consent. Of course she will afterwards say she didn’t want it because that is what a lady does …that old saw has been staple belief by sex perverts forever but was even the law in 50 and part of the 60’s. Remember marriage was considered consent for sex by males because the woman agreed to be married! This belief system by the right is the norm for them. At least that started to be considered nonsense later in the 60’s. That is what these vile perverts are thinking about consent.
hovercraft
@Humboldtblue:
That was a waste of one of my free articles this month, you said Booman, and it went to that waste of space Chris Cillizza :-(
Corner Stone
@Comrade Scrutinizer: Oh, bee-have!
/Powers
wenchacha
CNN’s feed is bad, too.
hovercraft
@Corner Stone:
The Trump campaign whining about media bias and double standards are making them all say this, but as soon as they ask anyone with any sense about it they get smacked down. Much as the Trumpsters and the media want to try for false equivalences, the public is not biting. SAD!
Snarki, child of Loki
Conservatives are fond of saying, about “enemies”, that:
…the only thing they understand is FORCE
Projection. Perhaps someone should “speak” to them in a way that they “understand”.
Adam L Silverman
@viking_kitten: Looking for these?
http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/02/18/alcohol_and_rape_it_s_time_to_embrace_affirmative_consent_standards.html
http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/09/29/affirmative_consent_in_california_gov_jerry_brown_signs_the_yes_means_yes.html
http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2015/08/11/is_affirmative_consent_difficult_not_for_people_who_sext_which_is_most_people.html
Droppy
And this would never stop – what are they going to do when the Dems nominate an avowed atheist? a gay governor? a physically handicapped senator? Probably we should have just found someone who fit all the categories they don’t like in one candidate, then the head explosions would have been certain. Messy, sure, but worth it to have it finished
shomi
Who gives a fuck what Limbaugh says. Hardly anyone listens to him anymore anyways. Didn’t give a fuck what he said before that either.
If the mouth breathers don’t have Limbaugh telling them what they want to hear the will find it somewhere else. Most of them do these days.
piratedan
@wenchacha: haveing no issues on mine, it’s Hillary’s You Tube feed.
FLOTUS speech
Frankensteinbeck
I think it goes a bit further. Limbaugh DID reveal the wingnut mind, and it’s not that they don’t grasp consent. They have contempt for it. If your morality celebrates bullying and cruelty, which theirs does, consent is a display of weakness.
Adam L Silverman
@Gin & Tonic: I’ve got that cued up for later. The Maskirovka Slips Part II: Gentlemen Do NOT Forget to Synchronize Your Watches Edition.
hovercraft
Michelle Obama brings it
Bobby Thomson
@eric: a stronger Dem who didn’t get a cool
Million in the primary from the DSCC – unlike McGinty. Market failures – how the fuck do they work?
D58826
Michelle is really fired up. Has reduced ‘old little hands’ to a pile of ashes.
Betty Cracker
@shomi: Replace “Limbaugh” with “shomi,” in your first paragraph, and I think you’ll capture the general sentiment here at “Ball Juice!”
trnc
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!
Shell
Yeah, bad satellite feed. But somehow I don’t think Michelle will be whining about her microphone.
PPCLI
@Corner Stone: True. One bit of faux outrage that I found most egregious was taking some emails that had been cc:ed to Podesta (not involving him directly) in which a Catholic (with political views that appear to be close to those of the current Pope, though this isn’t mentioned) complains about how much influence right wing Catholics have amassed within the US church. (These right wingers are, as it happens, are constantly bristling openly at the words of the current Pope.)
This is turned into the headline “Clinton Campaign Attacks Catholics!”
hovercraft
@bystander: @piratedan: @wenchacha:
If that doesn’t work here is one from c-span
EDIT It’s also a little crappy, sorry
Aleta
It won’t be long before “consent” will be the very twig that Trump clings onto.
Gin & Tonic
@Adam L Silverman: Good to hear.
Brachiator
I ran into Rush’s comments via a The Young Turks YouTube clip. Viewable Here.
I really cannot take Limbaugh seriously because he always blows stuff out his ass, but what he is alluding to here is not just about women as objects.
But he is also wailing about the conservative view of morality, which is roughly based on a set of rules about permitted and prohibited behavior. He is opposing this to a wrongly stereotypical view of liberal amorality. So, a conservative Christian would say that sodomy is prohibited because the Bible says so, while an amoral liberal would say that sodomy between consenting adults is fine because what individuals want to freely do to each other is by definition acceptable.
He is obviously full of shit since even most conservatives accept consent as a moral and legal requirement for sex and marriage. And I am willing to bet good money that Limbaugh and his buddies and fellow travelers have engaged in many of the activities he pretends to fear.
But the root of all this is the idiotic nonsense that consent swerves too close to licentiousness, that a good Christian always has G-D looking over his or her shoulder when sex is happening, and unless you are working from some biblically approved short list of acceptable behavior, you are on the road to hell. And if you do it because it feels good, as opposed to godly mandated duty, you are just a heathen.
Adam L Silverman
@bystander: I just put up a good youtube feed in a separate post. Apparently the pool feed the networks are using is glitchy, but they don’t want to try a reset on the tech because:
Mnemosyne
I admit, for the first kiss with my now-husband, I grabbed him and kissed him. On the other hand, we were on our second date and I could tell he was too shy to make the first move, so I decided to be a brazen hussy and make the first move myself.
It worked out. ?
Nick
@Betty Cracker:
No, I agree with that — but I took what he wrote to be pointing out the hypocrisy of Republicans who are behaving in the same way as the Clinton voters they criticized.
Adam L Silverman
@wenchacha: They’re having tech issues with the pool feed. The Hillary Clinton Speeches youtube page uses that and their feed is dead completely.
Bubblegum Tate
Slacktivist has a typically brilliant take on why wingnuts in general and fundies in particular struggle with the concept of consent.
PPCLI
@Betty Cracker: My opinion of Erickson is very low, his clear headness on Trump notwithstanding. For example, I still haven’t forgiven Erickson for his remarks on Souter. But his post in which he describes his and his wife’s health problems and his fear for his children’s future without them is very human and moving. It is worth reading.
Schlemazel
@Humdog:
I do not think it is necessarily that he doesn’t think consent is important it is that he can’t get consent unless cash changes hands so he just doesn’t want to always have $100 to get laid.
NR
@singfoom: Clinton is surging, but down-ballot Democrats are losing ground.
LeonS
@Corner Stone: It’s surreal to basically agree with Limbaugh, even though I suppose he thinks he’s having an argument. I guess it’s magic the same way we tell our kids “please” is a magic word. Of course it’s sad when grown ups can’t move beyond that, and sadder still when they think that sort of “magic” is bad.
Lizzy L
TPM has a link to an NBC News live feed in Florida, where Trump is supposed to be holding a rally. It’s an hour past starting time and there’s no Trump, just the audience waiting, and I suppose music. (I’ve got the sound off.) Maybe he’ll be a no show…
Punchy
Excessively Large Asshole Condition and severe empathy deficiency are fatal?
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: HMS Brazen’s (F91) helicopter is call signed “Hussy”. Apparently they amusingly tied its call sign to the frigate’s name, which is in line with the Brits using aspirational terms as names for Royal Navy ships.
Schlemazel
@Nick:
I do!
He is comparing consensual sex with non-consensual assault.
Bill is no saint, I find the horndog aspect of the guy deplorable but nowhere near the sexual assault that Trump has bragged about.
Blueskies
Lack of respect for or understanding of consent underlies ALL of conservatism, not just 21st century Republicans. Liberals’ basic stance on voting is: everyone who is ruled by a system should have a say (a vote) in how that system exists and works. Conservatives never view ruled versus ruler in that light. That is, liberals think we should all have a say in how the government is run, and we should all be allowed to consent or to withhold consent, to vote for or to vote against a particular measure, or candidate, or etc.if it affects us. Conservatives feel that one must earn the “right” to that consent, that we are all ruled, but only some of us are worthy of deciding who rules and how. And they, of course, decide what “worthy” is.
catclub
The “Tea and Consent” youtube video by the Thames Valley Police is very good. Somebody posted a link either here or at LGM.
RedDirtGirl
@Gin & Tonic: Amen!
Cacti
Trump is everything that Republicans have said they hated about Bill Clinton for the last 3 decades.
It’s glorious seeing them hoist on their on self-righteous petard.
Yesterday, no less than Jerry Falwell, Jr. said that conservatives “can’t get caught up in whether Trump is a good person”.
lolwut?
You just negated the whole purported raison d’etre of the religious right, dude.
SenyorDave
I think people have to take into account we are talking about Rush Limbaugh, who is on wife #4 (I hope for the sake of the wives that none of them are consummated, and he’s till into the Dominican Republic thing). For Limbaugh consent is not part of the equation, its a cash deal.
scav
Guard live feed on FLOTUS was good — golly it was a good one. The pair of them can speak.
Rob in CT
@NR:
Never change, Stillwell Angel.
Humboldtblue
@hovercraft:
Sorry, I realized my phrasing was poor just as my editing clock ran out.
Schlemazel
@Betty Cracker:
Could you please put the putz on a time out untill Nov14?
Consider it an early Christmas gift to us ball juicers.
PPCLI
@Cacti: Pedantic aside. Apologies in advance. It’s “hoist by … own petard” not “hoist on… own petard”.
A petard is a bomb, and “hoist” is being used an archaic sense of being “lifted” by any means.
Schlemazel
@PPCLI:
I am sure he would give the same consideration to someone one the left
/s
Svensker
@Poopyman:
You’re assuming the poor creatures (age, sex, unknown) who enjoyed Rush’s libidinous attentions were paid. No facts in evidence. It is entirely possible a pimp was paid.
Mnemosyne
BTW, for great insider coverage of the whole evangelical attitude towards consent, I strongly recommend the Patheos blog Love Joy Feminism, which is written by a woman who was raised in a Quiverfull family but broke away from them in college.
Lurking Canadian
@Lizzy L: Yeah, this. It’s not just that he’s (pretending to be?) surprised we think consent is necessary.
He’s also (pretending to be?) surprised we think consent is sufficient. Like he’s saying there are sexual activities that are so obviously bad that they remain bad even if all the people involved want to do it.
The former is reprehensible, but not surprising coming from somebody like Limbaugh. The latter is downright bizarre.
RedDirtGirl
@trnc:
Nice!
smith
@Brachiator: This. Limbaugh would remove agency from all parties in a sexual encounter by dictating what any of them can and can’t do. Whether they want to do whatever is irrelevant to him.
Central Planning
@viking_kitten: maybe it has something to do with their religious upbringing. There is some all-powerful, invisible sky creature that controls everything and they haven’t given their consent to that. They are trying to exert control because they feel they have none.
Slappy Kincaid
@Schlemazel: I learned in law school that consent was almost always the difference between a crime and a fun Saturday night.
D58826
‘Old little hands’ is promising to release the documents to prove his innocence in gropegate. They will be attached to his tax returns I guess.
hueyplong
I expect something big this afternoon. A really good reason for Trump to cancel his Hannity appearance would be if [media entity] has just called them for comment on [awful thing] they are about to publish/air/slap on the internet, and it’s now all hands on deck because this one is potentially fatal.
I am on painkillers today (kidney stone) so rank speculation is about all I can muster. This site’s comments are a bright spot for my altered attention span and I thank you all.
Nick
@PPCLI:
I thought a ‘petard’ was an archaic style of necktie.
catclub
Nominative determinism!
catclub
@D58826: Is there a credenza, too?
viking_kitten
@@Adam L Silverman:
I was thinking more along the lines of:
http://www.rawstory.com/2012/11/john-kosters-rape-comments-demonstrate-conservative-inability-to-understand-consent/
http://www.rawstory.com/2014/10/the-only-kind-of-sex-conservatives-can-rally-to-defend-non-consensual/
http://www.rawstory.com/2013/09/sexual-availability-isnt-a-thing-consent-is/
But it’s all good stuff.
celticdragonchick
@Adam L Silverman:
HMS Battleaxe with helo “Hatchet”.
I recall that from “Red Storm Rising”.
Nick
@Nick:
And it appears I am totally wrong about ‘petard’. Maybe I was thinking of cravat? No idea, really.
Eugene in Eugene
@Adam L Silverman:
So that explains HMS Sensitive, Sharing Partner!
viking_kitten
@Central Planning:
Could be. Conservativism (religious or otherwise) seems to be highly correlated with Authoritarianism. These are people who are uncomfortable outside of some established hierarchy. They want to know very clearly who is above them, and below them, in all contexts.
I imagine that when your entire cognitive map of the world is organized in that way, the idea of actual consent is hard to understand. It’s sort of an undefined idea. There are The Rules and The Hierarchy and The Authorities. It’s why they freak out at changing The Rules around sexual orientations, marriage, etc, and start babbling nonsense about sex with box turtles… The idea of altering The Rules undermines their cognitive map of the world and short circuits them. I assume it must be frightening. I’d pity them, except they are also so dangerous.
Adam L Silverman
@celticdragonchick: Yep, Clancy got those bits right.
Adam L Silverman
@Eugene in Eugene: Yep, that ship is very socially evolved.
prufrock
@Mnemosyne: Maybe my favorite site. Certainly the one I post most on.
Humboldtblue
@celticdragonchick:
“At least we don’t name our ships after our mothers-in-law,” is how the exchange wrapped up I believe.
Speaking of Royal Navy ship names, they usually nail it like they did with the submarine, HMS Ambush. Of course it does little good for a submarine to hide under the waves and the slam into a merchant vessel, sort of ruins the whole “ambush” part of the exercise.
I still love the Flower Class Corvette names from WW2 — who wouldn’t want to go U-boat chasing in HMS Buttercup or run off an E-boat in HMS Petunia?
Durindal
@Mnemosyne: :-D Sounds like my spouse…
Roger Moore
@Nick:
And the right wing has always maintained that not all of Bill Clinton’s behavior was consensual; they’ve made a big deal about Juanita Broaddrick’s accusations, for instance. Somebody who sincerely believes that Clinton is a rapist would justifiably not make a big distinction between him and Trump.
Durindal
“But consent is the magic key to the left”… I honestly don’t know what this is supposed to mean…
PPCLI
@Nick: Nope. Pétard still means “bomb” in French.
MattF
@Adam L Silverman: The warships in Iain Banks’ ‘Culture’ novels tended to have ‘interesting’ names, like ‘Grey Area’ and ‘What are the Civilian Applications’. Wikipedia has the complete list.
OGLiberal
So, in Wingnutlandia, if I’m not outraged at Andrew Sullivan making love to his husband or Roger Stone participating in a consensual orgy (yes, he’s into that and public about it), I’m not allowed to object to some obnoxious rich guy thinking he has the right to grab a woman’s kitty cat without her permission? OK….
Gelfling 545
@Humboldtblue: I don’t care about Dean’s diagnosis. Carrie Fisher’s, though, that has some weight.
Frank Wilhoit
Coercion is the magic key to the Right.
NotoriousJRT
@Trentrunner:
That whole premise was horse shit.
Humboldtblue
@Gelfling 545: Great point.
Schlemazel
@Svensker:
In which case consent was not Lamebrain’s concern
Schlemazel
@Slappy Kincaid:
I learned the same lesson from my parents
Enhanced Voting Techinques
Since it’s Rush speaking I will venture:
“¿Cuánto por una hora con el niño bonito poco?”
Yes, I can see how Rush can’t grok a sex act that doens’t involve a monetary exchange.
Shalimar
My impression from listening to Rush at the link is that he understands consent perfectly fine, he just doesn’t believe it should matter.
Brachiator
@Cermet:
I don’t think that Trump has any coherent view of his repulsive behavior. He seems to think that his wealth and power would somehow make a woman endure what she would otherwise reject.
Huh? Really? Where?
Not entirely. The presumption was that one of the purposes of marriage was the production of children. A marriage could be annulled for non consummation if either the man or the woman was able or willing to perform.
In addition to this, I guess, is the presumption that the man should be able to have sex with his wife whenever he wanted without regard to her consent. I don’t know if there was ever a similar understanding that a wife could demand that her husband perform.
slag
Your rosetta stone analogy is spot on Betty!
Aleta
RL’s claim is hogwash given that ‘I thought she consented’ has now surpassed ‘I thought she invited me’ as a winning defense strategy in rape trials, including rape of unconscious victims and others unable to consent.
Gelfling 545
@Schlemazel: ?
Gelfling 545
@D58826: I’m trying to imagine what “documents” might prove such a thing. Did he annotate his calendar with the times he didn’t assault women?
Gelfling 545
@Roger Moore: The biggest distinction is thst only one of them is running for office. That should matter.
Jerry
Limbaugh’s viewpoint on the need for consent when dealing with other human beings is just the logical outcome of Cleek’s Law.
Shana
@D58826: What possible documents could he have to prove his innocence?
catclub
@Brachiator:
I bet there are things in the Talmud about that.
catclub
@Shana: Sealed court cases where he admits no wrongdoing!
john fremont
Limbaugh damn well understands what consent is when it involves anybody else besides white men. He went on for several days on his radio show 20 years ago about the loss of morality among youth with the “Whirlpooling” story in New York City public pools in 1993. Teenagers would surround girls in public pools and grope them or remove their bathing suits at will.
sukabi
@Thoroughly Pizzled: drumpf won’t do jail, too cowardly…if it gets close to an actual trial he can’t get out of he’ll either flee the country or take a swan dive off drumpf tower.
sukabi
@Patricia Kayden: the “rich” really do have different standards…that’s the only takeaway I get from this whole “locker room talk” excusing mess..the whole lot of them are sociopathic blights on the public square.
sukabi
@Svensker: I object to your use of the word “enjoyed” in that context.
PhoenixRising
@Durindal:
I think what it means is, Don’t have sex with Rush-type conservatives or apparently many GOP men. Can you imagine how lousy at it they are, technically? I mean, there is a skill set involved and if you can’t understand that everyone involved being enthusiastic about the agenda is a minimum…that imposes limits on the upside.
Is it possible they don’t understand consent because they have no experience with it? Ewww….
evodevo
@viking_kitten: This might be one: http://www.rawstory.com/2012/11/john-kosters-rape-comments-demonstrate-conservative-inability-to-understand-consent/