I am a superstitious man, as Don Corleone once said, so normally I would never say that my candidate had a race sewn up, because that might jinx my candidates. However, one of my superstitions is that Mark Halperin saying that something will happen makes that something less likely to happen. So this stupid Halperin shit about how Putin and Julian Assange may be about to swing the election probably means that the race really and truly is over
Most key ppl in race now in order
1 Chris Wallace
2 Putin
3 Assange
4 @KellyannePolls
5 D Trump
6 H Clinton
7 B Clinton
8 B Obama
9 Pence— Mark Halperin (@MarkHalperin) October 17, 2016
Let’s take the House and Senate too.
dmsilev
So, Trump’s campaign manager is more important than either candidate? Even in the twisted reality of HalperinWorld, how is that supposed to make sense?
Doug R
Durp?
Pest Bog Mummy, Frakensteinbeck
This seems correct to me. At this point, the person with the greatest chance to change the course of the race is Chris Wallace, with his determination to make Trump the winner of the third debate. I don’t think his odds are actually very good, but he has the best shot of anyone. Putin and Assange are next, because hey, they might could pull SOMETHING out of their asses. The Clintons, Trump, and Obama are going to do what they do and not change. Pence is a joke. Kellyanne, I don’t know.
Mary G
How’s Chris Wallace going to help Trump or Clinton? He’s already said he won’t be fact-checking.
WaterGirl
@Pest Bog Mummy, Frakensteinbeck: I thought people were commenting that Kellyanne had been nowhere to be seen for days, I guess she must have come out of hiding?
scott (the other one)
I think Halperin might need to go to rehab. Or maybe just be put in time-out.
Mike in NC
Disappointed that Halperin didn’t put himself at the top of that list. Weasel hack.
dmsilev
Wait, he forgot Obama’s half-brother, who apparently is going to be Trump’s secret-weapon guest at the debate tomorrow. Why Obama’s half-brother has anything to do with Hillary Clinton is left as an exercise for Trump’s psychoanalyst.
Pest Bog Mummy, Frakensteinbeck
@Mary G:
By using his authority as moderator to focus the debate on FOX-slanted issues, letting Trump talk freely, and not only trying to cut off Hillary as much as possible, but scold her in the process – for, say, not explaining why entitlements are the worst thing ever and must be cut. He thinks Trump is a debate god and hates Hillary, so whatever he can figure out to do, he will.
Bill E Pilgrim
I had no idea you guys even knew each other. Who played you in the movie again?
danielx
This is beyond deranged and well into Bill Kristol territory.
dmsilev
@Pest Bog Mummy, Frakensteinbeck: Letting Trump talk freely is a good way to torpedo Trump.
Mnemosyne
Can someone with a stronger stomach than mine tell me what’s in the latest fake O’Keefe videos? I want to be able to properly mock my gullible cousin-in-law on Facebook.
Gravenstone
Given the title, I fully expected this to be a Cole r
jheartney
Later debates are less important than earlier debates. This election cycle has been the most stable one in the modern era. The number of undecideds is at an historic low. Recent massive revelations about Trump’s past as a sexual predator haven’t budged the numbers. Nobody but the Breitbart-infected cares about emails.
So naturally Halperin is pumping up THA HORZRACE like there’s no tomorrow. If ever you needed an excuse to not think about the man again, this is it.
Elizabelle
@Gravenstone: Yeah. I was expecting a Cole renovation update.
Mark Halperin? Meh.
Gravenstone
@Gravenstone: remodeling post.
Fucking piece of shit tablet. Had to switch to my desktop just to finish the damned post.
dmsilev
@Mnemosyne: Random people saying things that, when deceptively edited and taken massively out of context, sound bad. Same old same old, in other words.
Splitting Image
You’re all being too hard on Halperin. Bill Kristol is the one you should be worrying about. He has said that Trump is unfit for office, and since he is always wrong about everything, might be close to causing the end of the world.
Halperin is always wrong too, so its actually reassuring to see him saying the same wrong things he always does.
hovercraft
@Pest Bog Mummy, Frakensteinbeck:
I saw somewhere that something like 60 % of the voters say the debate will not change who they vote for, and I expect that the ratings will be lower than the first two. Chris Wallace was actually quite good in the GOP primaries, and he has a reputation to protect, so while I expect the questions to be FOXcentric, he will be as fair as he can be.
Schlemazel
@Bill E Pilgrim:
Robert Duval played me
Not being a Sicilian was tough on me
chopper
@Splitting Image:
yeah! no…
Mnemosyne
@dmsilev:
Well, that can’t be right, because he says it’s a GAMECHANGER that will CHANGE THE COURSE OF THE ELECTION that THE MSM IS AFRAID TO TALK ABOUT.
Even his Facebook friends seem to be politely ignoring him.
hovercraft
@WaterGirl:
She came out today, I guess she was convinced by her paymasters that it was in her best interest to get back out there and lie her ass off. Unfortunately for her the days of the media allowing her to come on and turn every question into an attack on Clinton are over. She gets interrupted and hosts point out that the things she wants to talk about will be asked of Clinton surrogates, and that she is there to talk about her candidate. SAD!
Bill E Pilgrim
@Splitting Image: Having Kristol saying things that actually resemble what seems to be true is definitely akin to crossing the streams.
Look it’s simple, all we need to do is not think about a giant, pasty, bloated, marshmallowy-looking….. uh oh…
PhoenixRising
Dig in your pockets y’all. John McCain needs to go to one of his homes, perhaps the one in Scottsdale, and sulk for the remainder of his natural life while Ann Kirkpatrick redecorates that office.
I’m lucky enough to be able to take a week off work to push/pull/drag less likely voters, and I’m going to stay with my least favorite cousin in Maricopa County to do it. Tossing a little $$ in the hat is really pretty easy!
hovercraft
@dmsilev:
I think it’s revenge aimed at Obama, for attacking Trump for no reason. He’s been telling Obama to get off the campaign trail and get back to work, since Obama didn’t listen this will show him! Sick burn!
tsquared2001
If he is shot in the head by a police officer or be found hung in a jail cell……
What makes that scene is when Brando says: if he should be struck by a bolt of lightening, then I’m gonna blame some of the people in this room.
Let us also not forget, that RIGHT after that scene, Vito talks to Tom about how Tataliaga is a pimp.
Doug! gets me
WaterGirl
@hovercraft: Couldn’t happen to a nicer person…
Bill E Pilgrim
@Schlemazel:
Well Donald Trump is playing the entire Republican voting population, so you got off easy.
maeve
My “fear” about the election is the guy sitting with his friend in their garage/rec room (whom I canvassed in 2008) who laughed at me (semi kindly) about being involved in politics – how many Trump voters who never voted before are voting- counter-balanced by Latinos who are now voting (see Propane Jane)
Don’t look at the polls (based on likely voter models – they are all out the window ) – just GOTV
WaterGirl
@PhoenixRising:
Definitely easier than staying with your least favorite cousin! (who hopefully does not read this blog)
NotMax
Maybe Wallace will give up and go full Barbara Walters.
“What kind of tree would you choose to be?”
“If you could design the perfect meal which foods would you include, and why?”
“What’s your spirit animal?”
“This one is a toughie, so be prepared. Favorite season of the year?”
catclub
@jheartney:
Josh Marshall had a chart of 2012 polling and 2016 polling. Hillary is beating the margins that Obama had by 4-5%. Last day polling had Obama by about 1-2% and he won by 4%. If Clinton simply equals her polling she will beat that.
PsiFighter37
I wonder how many crayons Halperin ate before he crapped up that list.
amk
hillz should simply knee the carnival barker racist xenophobe pos in his nutz by welcoming the muslim and the immigrant half-brother to the debate.
Peale
@Mnemosyne: From what I can tell, the guy who ran Democratic “ditty tricks” is bragging about all of his dirty tricks. The implication is that Donald’s rally’s have been poisoned by the Democrats so all those haters you see are really plants.
catclub
@maeve:
I suspect they forgot to register to vote, but will be pissed when told they cannot vote without registering.
Dog Dawg Damn
I’m guessing the final debate has much lower viewership numbers than the previous two.
This has become a circus, and most people want it over with by now. I wish I didn’t have to watch it, but the husband is all about it, so we will. I can’t stand Chris Wallace and his smug, snide sneering smirk. My guess is he will take it hard to Hillary, and she’ll hold up well.
M. Bouffant
Cheesis K. Rist, the last thing this world needs is The Mark Halperin Political Power Index Rankings.
hovercraft
@Mnemosyne:
From Snopes
I did not watch the videos.
Prescott Cactus
@Mark Halperin
Twitter Mulligan.
catclub
@Pest Bog Mummy, Frakensteinbeck: I think all of those if overdone, will be excoriated the next day. Matt Lauer was roasted for not keeping control in his interviews. Wallace trying to put too large a thumb on the scale will be seen for what it is.
tsquared2001
@maeve: Donny voters go to rallies and nothing else. Registering to vote? Knowing the deadlines to register? Even their own candidate fucked up the election date.
Of course, there will be whining and bitching but what else is new?
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: Apparently a contractor working for the Clinton campaign told O’Keefe he hired people to go to Trump events and disrupt them. There’s no actual evidence that the contractor did what he said. My understanding is the Clinton campaign had fired him. That’s pretty much it.
Bill E Pilgrim
I made the mistake of seeing Joe in the morning talking to Halperin this morning and they agreed that Hillary should be up by 30 points given how badly Trump had imploded, and that media coverage had been completely biased against Donald Trump which is why he’s doing so badly.
They’ve really got this little logic machine wired up so no matter what you put into it it’s the same result: Clinton is up by almost ten points? She screwed up. Trump has imploded and is down ten points? Not his fault. The Earth is about to be hit by a giant comet? Hillary screwed up, not Trump’s fault.
NotMax
@Bill E Pilgrim
It’s not a race with only one horse.
tsquared2001
@catclub: Would be just brilliant that the true election rigging would catch all them dummies. ID? Provisional ballot?
Lizzy L
@catclub: At both previous debates the pundits tried to say that Trump had won, which was not at all what the actual voter responses said. (Except for Frank Luntz’s focus group. Forget him.) The pundits looked biased and stupid. If Wallace tries to make Trump look good or goes after Clinton too hard, it will show and the voters won’t like it, and they’ll react loudly and publicly.
I too wish this were over.
Peale
@Bill E Pilgrim: Yep. Joe’s bogus populism is a site to behold. “Coastal Elites Don’t Understand their Pain!”. Jesus. If only there was a show to discuss those issues seriously. If only someone could do something about that. Maybe have serious discussions about trade policy or industrial policy or wage stagnation or access to education and what could be done about it besides “punish Washington.” If only someone could do that?
Joe doesn’t want to give up his handmade custom shoes, however. So…
maeve
@catclub: Maybe so, maybe no – GOTV – I just think all voter models are out the window (both pro and con for “us”)
mainmata
The cable/TV networks in particular long ago decided that this was going to be a bothsides are awful Sh*tshow long ago. Lists like this are just MSM blathering.
amk
@efgoldman: parody trolls are smart, hackperin is just a dumbshit.
Bill E Pilgrim
@NotMax: They weren’t trying to make it a horse race. They just want to blame the Democrat, and particularly if it’s Hillary Clinton. She could win in the biggest landslide in history and I swear to God Joe will be saying she totally blew it and should have won by more.
I just loved the dissonance in this one and the fact that they couldn’t see it even after saying it. He’s such a clown why is she only nine points ahead of him, and he’s only behind as much as he is because it’s the media’s fault.
weaselone
@Peale:
Joe could always invite some of these poor, unfortunate souls in pain and need onto his show to discuss the issues with him.
Doug!
@tsquared2001:
Great, great scene
hovercraft
@Mnemosyne:
From Snopes
Project Veritas October 2016 election-related sting videos reveal titbits of selectively (and no doubt deceptively edited) footage absent any context in which to evaluate them. Unless his organization releases the footage in full, undertaking an assessment of their veracity is all but impossible.
Lets see if this disappears into the ether too.
Peale
@weaselone: LOL. Tweety was on the same kick. Where are the issues? He thundered from a show with his name on it that is on TV 5 days a week during prime time. Like the only thing that can be done and has ever been done is invite six of the most shouty people on at once and give each 15 seconds to respond.
hovercraft
@Mnemosyne:
I tried three times to link to snopes, where they say they can’t evaluate the videos because they suspect his usual tactics, so they would need the entire unedited footage.
Lets see if this disappears too. Fingers crossed.
ding7777
@Adam L Silverman: If the contractor is Scott Foval, from what I read, he was working for and fired by Americans United for Change – not the Clinton campaign
different-church-lady
Fixed that for him.
Adam L Silverman
@srv:
Fixed it for you.
Adam L Silverman
@Peale: And what was Molly Ball’s problem?
Adam L Silverman
@ding7777: I think that’s him. As usual there’s no way of knowing how the footage was edited or even if it was fabricated. I’ve seen almost no mainstream news coverage of it – other than an offhand remark or two – because everyone seems to have finally wised up to the fact that whatever O’Keefe is pushing is highly dubious and likely to bite whoever runs with it on the ass.
Citizen_X
Sorry, but someone’s got to say it:
This is good news for John McCain.
mike in dc
Missing from Halperin’s list:
1. Random video editor from The Apprentice in possession of racist and misogynist outtakes
2. Next group of Trump sexual assault accusers
3. Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell’s potential unendorsements following 1 and 2
Adam L Silverman
@hovercraft: Here’s the Snopes’ link:
http://www.snopes.com/2016/10/18/project-veritas-election-videos/
Sm*t Cl*de
Once again, Trump smuggles furriners into the country rather than look for an American to do the work,* but this time it’s a MUSLIN FURRINER.
* Much like his marriages.
hovercraft
@Bill E Pilgrim:
Funny how the last few years we’ve been told that the country is extremely polarized, Obama’s approval rating among republicans was 41 % from the beginning of his presidency. But somehow they expect this evil woman who has been demonized on FOX and talk radio for the last 20 something years to have crossover appeal? The fact that she’s getting any republicans, and is only trailing among independents by single digits is a miracle. Remember Obama lost them to RMoney, they lean GOP.
Mnemosyne
Also, too, we have a winnah in the next Movie Club poll over at Schroedinger’s Cat’s blog. Click here to find out what to watch.
SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch
@Adam L Silverman:
I’m sure that’s going to be well worth studying, and I will, but holy fuck, that is the very epitome of a tl;dr post comment. My thumb just about fell off from scrolling down to the end.
Bill E Pilgrim
@mike in dc: They should put those on a rolling trend line thing, live. Okay, Trump got applause, Ryan has endorsed again. No wait, after that burn from Clinton, he’s un-endorsed. And so has Thune! Wait, good response from Trump….. Thune is re-endorsing!
Applejinx
@Mnemosyne: I can’t because a dear, close friend I value a lot was watching that and going “those MOTHERFUCKERS’. I had to ask, and she was like ‘it will make your head explode, you supported Bernie and well…”
I saw it was THAT guy, and I didn’t even watch. So I can’t help. I hate Mister Acorn, that freakshow. He is now responsible for a nasty silent no-go zone between me and a good friend. She is up in flyover country and a huge fan of Trey Gowdy and bought it hook line and sinker and I can’t change that by flipping out, though I did say I didn’t think O’Keefe was as honest as Gowdy, and I posted a picture of him crossing the Rio Grande in a Saddam Hussein mask.
This fucking election.
As for the guy’s claims, it’s just too difficult to explain to my very decent friend (who runs for and holds political office! And is generally just as distrustful of Republicans as Democrats!) that I figure Clinton’s political savvy and expert badass team are part of WHY I support her. Bernie had to be able to stand up against that, and he had a fair chance and a decent amount of money from me personally, and he wasn’t able to defeat Hillary and has turned to supporting her, rightly so.
Come at the queen, you best not miss.
It is my assumption that she does NOT see benefit in raping and pillaging America, and a lot of her remarks (and the Dem platform) seem reassuring, and it’s really not the Nineties anymore. But I can’t extend faith on behalf of others, or tell them not to listen to O’Keefe: if they’ll eat that, but choke on Hillary playing hardball fucking politics, I don’t know what to tell them.
Continue to play hardball, Hillary. The latest meme going around is how Paul Ryan warns that Bernie will head the budget committee.
That… will do nicely. I feel if he’s there, it will be encouragement for Hillary to take useful government action to help Americans. And the more frightened the zombie-eyed granny starver is, the more pleased I shall be. EARN that fear, you fuckers. Actually take actions that are the wingnuts’ worst nightmares, and I will back you 100%.
Peale
@hovercraft: yep. It’s almost like they haven’t heard of loyal republican voters before. Or anything that any republican candidate running for a house seat has campaigned on. Like they must only know serious republicans who would never go on a right wing talk radio show to get votes from Pam Gellar.
BillinGlendaleCA
@srv: He does realize that Twitter is a private company and can censor anyone, anyway they please. Why to you hate free enterprise srv?
Old Dan and Little Anne
I heard Hannity talking about this video proving Hillary sent people to disrupt drumph rallies. So it must be true.
eta: they also used rental cars instead of bussing people in to vote illegally. Because it’s less obvious of course.
Adam L Silverman
@Sm*t Cl*de: Obama’s half brother is an open supporter of Hamas. So this should be interesting:
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/46493_So_Donald_Trump_Just_Invited_a_Hamas_Supporter_to_the_Debate_Tomorrow_Night
And the mother of one of the guys killed at Benghazi who’s grief has made her completely irrational. I think the Trump folks are trying to force a confrontation between her and Secretary Clinton liked they tried to do with President Clinton and Jones, Broaddrick, Wiley, and Shelton at the 2nd debate.
Adam L Silverman
@SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch: I don’t write them, I just copy and paste em!
Calouste
Assange could influence the race when Ecuador gives him his internet access back, which most likely is going to be on the morning of Wednesday November 9th.
Omnes Omnibus
@SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch: This is why you have 2 thumbs.
Bill E Pilgrim
What Donald Trump and whoever is running his campaign sometimes don’t seem to grasp is that things only stick when they reinforce what people already thought. “Hillary Clinton, dirty campaign trickster sending thugs to rallies” is just not going to ring true to anyone. “Donald Trump, who brags about committing sexual assault, apparently committed sexual assault” was another story entirely.
hovercraft
@Adam L Silverman: She’s in training to take over when Mrs. Greenspan retires or chokes on her own bile.
Yes I know that’s harsh, but i can’t stand her.
Omnes Omnibus
@Applejinx:
Assumption? Jesus fucking Christ.
hovercraft
@Adam L Silverman:
Thanks, the gremlins kept eating it.
Adam L Silverman
@efgoldman: There were a couple of lawsuits that got settled with money from his backers over the ACORN thing – one of the guys who was fired. He got a fortunate sentencing in his trial for criminal trespass and interference with communications at SEN Landriue’s office. I think some of it is that other than the ACORN videos, his stuff hasn’t really achieved anything. So no one has much reason to sue. He basically makes himself look stupid every time he does one of these. And, as was the case with his buddy Daleidan, he appears to have broken FL law about taping people without their consent. In Daleidan’s case this got him charged with a couple of felonies and he’s being sued for everything anyone named Daleidan ever owned in CA. And I’m pretty sure that the NAF will use anything discovered in their civil suit in CA to push for criminal prosecution if they can.
Adam L Silverman
@hovercraft: She’s clearly a smart woman, but she was pushing the quid pro quo thing, which took almost no time to debunk.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Omnes Omnibus: One does wish Apple Jacks could be more succinct in his batshit incoherence
Applejinx
@Bill E Pilgrim: Are you joking? Yes it will, but it does not necessarily mean ‘Hillary Clinton, will be a disaster’.
People DO think she is that ruthless. Thing is, she is up against Cheeto Hitler, and her platform this time is pretty damn awesome. I don’t give a fuck if she’s that ruthless if she’s trying to do things I consider desperately need doing. Winning is one of those things.
Bernie is supporting her, after ‘dirty tricks’ etc. We can get what we need from her. This is not the time to throw a hissy fit about who gets to wear the freaking crown: we are all in this together. Let her lead. She’s god-damned determined to, and I like seeing that when the alternative is Trump.
Adam L Silverman
@hovercraft: Yep, you’ve got a lot of stuff that went right into the trash folder. I do not know why this seems to just randomly happen.
hovercraft
@Adam L Silverman:
I thought Trump watched the un- funny SNL. she will not take the bait, and between the debate commission and the secret service she will be kept far away from Hillary. Unless she is planning to begin screaming at Hillary when the inevitable Benghazi question comes up, I don’t see how that will have an impact.
Bill E Pilgrim
@Applejinx: Well I can’t say I followed most of that but am I joking? Nope.
She’s seen as lots of things, agreed, but someone egging on thugs to disrupt rallies, that’s not one of them. Trump maybe, not her.
Applejinx
@Omnes Omnibus: That’s right. My assumption. I think it’s absurd to assume she’s some kind of neoliberal loon trying to bring back the 90s and turn the country over to oligarchs and corporations (more than it is).
There are far too many people close to me, who are completely down with thinking she is all that. They are wrong, and you folks are fucking opium eaters if you think the general take on Hils is that she’s Liberal Jesus. You are crazy. Nobody buys that, but they are all very determined to support her anyway, as am I.
You don’t have to be nice to be effective. You don’t even have to be nice to be great. Hillary is a lot more nice than she’s painted. I advise you settle for that because jesus fucking christ, you people. You have no idea of the world you live in.
hovercraft
@Adam L Silverman:
I was only trying to paste the bottom paragraph saying that the tapes are probably deceptively edited.
Omnes Omnibus
@Applejinx: You are still picturing a HRC of your imagination.
Adam L Silverman
@hovercraft: I agree that Clinton won’t take the bait. But she’s going to be placed in the front row, so I think they’re hoping she’ll lose it and go after Clinton when its over and the candidates go down to mingle. I feel bad for her – she’s suffered a great loss. But at this point she’s just being used for other people’s advantage. I’d also love someone in the news media to point out that when Cindy Sheehan made the same statements about President Bush (43) everyone shrugged her off as some loon.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Omnes Omnibus: and a Constitution pulled out of his ass.
Applejinx
@Bill E Pilgrim: Between the frothing lefties and the wingnuts (and I’ve got both sorts in my life because I have a social circle, drug/alcohol recovery, that has no relation to politics) people believe far worse than that of Hillary, and they are wrong.
Don’t paint her as an honest feckless boob. I’ve never doubted her ruthlessness, only her intentions. I’m pretty confident of her intentions though we’re going to have to give her not only the Presidency, but also the Senate and the House. Then we’ll see, for sure.
Some of the things she should do, SHOULD make wingnuts absolutely hysterical. The wingnuts are wrong and we can’t coexist with them. They have to lose, policy-wise, and also be prevented from too much domestic terrorist action. They won’t like that.
Hillary can handle it, and that fact confirms SOME of their ranting about her. They can call that abuse of power and I’m sure they will. It might BE abuse of power in some ways. I don’t care. The wingnuts and Trump-nuts have gone beyond what decent behavior can cope with.
Adam L Silverman
@hovercraft: Its not you or what you did. There’s something wrong somewhere in WP’s code that just randomly seems to select stuff for the trash folder. And it’ll do it for several posts of the same person and then stop. I’ll email Alain about it again, but if I remember correctly, its something he has to query WP about because there’s nothing for him to fix.
hovercraft
Casey Hunt is saying that she feels that there is almost an air of overconfidence in the Clinton bubble, says flying in felt like flying in on Airforce One in waiting. But yesterday I’m pretty sure that Casey or one of the others was telling me that there was a cloud over Brooklyn, because of all the personal attacks, and the scuzzyness of the campaign. They said that Hillary and Bill were very upset. So which is it are they depressed or overconfident. Or is it like Obama being a weak bullying tyrant dictator.
Omnes Omnibus
@Applejinx: You are missing my point. You still seem to see her as some kind of vicious, Machiavellian asshole. You really seem to miss the years of working for children, the years of working for women’s rights, the years of working for minority rights. You also seem to be completely unaware of the absolute loyalty she inspires in people who have worked with her.
hovercraft
@Adam L Silverman:
It hadn’t picked on me for a while, but it got me twice today. You might mention that it apparently identified my user name, tonight I’m home and this afternoon I was on a PC at work.
PatrickG
@Omnes Omnibus: to be fair, inspiring loyalty in underlings is VERY Machiavellian. :)
Eta: And not just underlings, even colleagues and superiors!
Applejinx
@Omnes Omnibus: Actually, that’s what drew me back from BernieBusting and made me increasingly determined to back her. But just as Obama’s capable of supporting a slave-holding country because of their strategic importance and position between us and China, Clinton is capable of being meaner than you think. Most of the ‘scandals’ I’ve seen can be explained as the basic nastiness of politics, combined with the fact that Clintons WILL NOT turn against their friends and loyalists. If you get a sense of that, then it explains the absolute loyalty part. You’d have to be a jerk to turn against her or Bill if you’ve understood that they would take a bullet for you, that they will not betray you.
This is also why the ‘superpredators brought to heel’ thing was a bullshit wedge argument: black communities WANTED an end to their violence. At the time, the Clintons weren’t pursuing economic directions that would help black communities (they were misled, as was most of the world then). But they listened, and they backed policy that would address that violence.
I can’t picture Jill Stein being that kind of tough (or Donald Trump listening).
I don’t think you can follow only your own pure-hearted moral compass AND be able to listen to allies that effectively. What you call ‘vicious machiavellian asshole’ I call ‘damn that’s some hardball politics’. But you can’t be horrified and pearl-clutchy when wingnuts flip out and think Hillary will orchestrate a crapload of ruthless stuff that wrecks all their dreams. Their dreams SUCK. I WANT them wrecked. Accept that Hillary is ‘vicious’ enough to do that. She had better be.
danielx
The gall of those media bastards, to accurately report Donald Trump’s words and actions and even investigate the vile untruths spouted by his enemies! Why, the conspiracy even extends to microphones!
It seem to me that the treatment of the orange shitgibbon by the media is pretty much what is to be expected, given how much dirt is a matter of public record and knowledge already. I can sort of understand why Trump didn’t want his campaign staff to do opposition research on him; I’d wager that after two weeks of investigation a fairish number of them would have quit. Either out of disgust or a sense that their candidate was about as attractive as gangrene….
Omnes Omnibus
@PatrickG: Inspiring loyalty is good politics. Nicolo or not. Applejinx is a former Bernie person who seems to have a really weird vision of HRC. AJ seems to see her as an amoral, vicious pol who just has latched onto a certain agenda because it resonates. AJ is a loon.
Adam L Silverman
@hovercraft: Will do.
SFAW
@NotMax:
Right church, wrong pew:
Q1) Chris Wallace: Mr. Trump, why does Hillary suck so much?
Q2) Miss Clinton, why are you such a bitch?
Q3) My Lord Trump, would Hitlary be the worst President ever?
Q4) Bitch Queen, why would you be the worst President ever?
Q5) Donald, my idol, if you win, would you even bother to put Hitlary on trial, or would you just have a summary execution for her crimes?
Q6) Hitlary, you c**t, why did you kill Vince Foster, Chris Stevens, and thousands of other innocents, and why shouldn’t you be executed RIGHT EFFING NOW?!?
and so on.
I think that is what Halperin is hoping for, at least. They’re certainly questions he would feel comfortable asking.
Vhh
@hovercraft: another problem is that shit may well hit the fan @ Fox after the election, and ol Chris Wallace needs to be prepared to jump in at least two opposite directions. He cannot afford to offend any possible player or he is done. This could actually force him to straddle the middle. We’ll see if he is smart enough to figure this out.
redshirt
@NotMax: Like, definitely Spring.
Omnes Omnibus
@Applejinx: You didn’t understand a thing I wrote, did you? I worked for Bill in ’92 and ’96. I know what the politics of the ’90s were. I still say that your conception of HRC as a cold, vicious player is lacking. I also have no illusions that you are capable of seeing her any other way.
daves09
Yesterday in Politico there was a long piece about how depressed everyone at Clinton campaign headquarters is. Except that was just the reporter’s take. Every single quote from Clinton people was * nah, we’re great, not letting it bother us.* Very next story was about Clinton overconfidence-again based on just the reporters feelings that they should be overconfident, or maybe in deep despair or really just about anything the could pull out of their hoo-haws.
Applejinx
@Omnes Omnibus: Prove me wrong. It’ll be obvious. I will be DELIGHTED to be wrong.
Every time I turn around there’s some personal friend or someone whose opinion I’d otherwise value, going ‘those (democrat) motherfuckers!’.
I don’t think the government can get corrupted in a one-sided way. Dems and Reps have different agendas but they’re playing roughly the same game, with the Village as a collaborator with an agenda all their own. I picture Hillary as playing that game, better than anyone, with (according to our platform) a righteous and good purpose. If you want ‘holier than the wicked politicians’ there’s Stein, or maybe Bernie.
Who is endorsing Hillary, and I am sure he still feels hard done by. But he is a politician too, and his purposes are served by Hillary’s winning.
Maybe it would be easier to understand this if you folks think for a moment of how eager you all were to believe the most ridiculously overblown stuff about Bernie. Nobody fucking thought he was sincere. Maybe all us lefties are sincere in our own ways, and it would be obvious if not for the stinking People’s Front of Judea.
Splitters! ;P :)
waysel
@hovercraft: The Bengazi mom will start screaming “Murderer” as soon as Hillary walks out. She’ll be removed, and Donald will honorably walk out of the debate, as protest to the injustice done by Hillarys’ thugs and the rigged debate overseers.
redshirt
Look at the Hillary voters fighting in this thread.
That’s what THEY want folks!
PatrickG
@Omnes Omnibus: Oh, I remember the primary threads. But whatever the motivation, Applejinx is voting Hillary, supporting Hillary, and trying to convince friends to do the same.
GOTV! Or rehash old fights. Your call.
PatrickG
@Applejinx: commenting while I’m tapping away on this phone like an old. Splitter!
hovercraft
@daves09:
I saw both those takes but from msnbc reporters.
redshirt
@PatrickG: I know, right? Some nasty words from fellow travelers tonight.
Omnes Omnibus
@Applejinx:
How exactly could I do that? You have your opinion of a woman whose resume is public record. Look, I am glad that you will vote for her. Nevertheless, I think your analysis is puerile.
hovercraft
@waysel:
The poor woman has been driven insane by grief, so I can see that happening, for normal people will wonder why she was brought to the debate when she obviously so fragile. They will blame Trump for exploiting he grief. Bannon and Bossie and Trump will love it and think they’ve had a major win, humans, not so much.
redshirt
@Omnes Omnibus: Always with the insults. You should be above it.
hovercraft
@redshirt:
Are we rooting for the Judean peoples front or……….
PatrickG
@redshirt: I’m perfectly happy to relitigate old scores under President Clinton’s watch. After phone banking and holding it in, I have no patience for omnes lacking focus.
Omnes Omnibus
@PatrickG: I am not sure that AJ is helpful. I am not convinced that “She is an evil bitch, but she is our evil bitch” is an effective argument. YMMV. That is really the best that AJ offers.
Applejinx
@PatrickG: Splitter! ;P :D
Presidency, Senate, AND the House. Then Bernie can run the Budget committee just like Paul Ryan fears, and he will back anything Hillary wants to do to help stamp out granny-starving.
Democrats can fight and still be all on the same page for the important stuff. And my brother got on board and ditched his BoB ways and is solid, and the other fellow who was holding out might cave. I don’t know what to do about the wingnut friends who are conferring amongst themselves as if I need to be locked up for daring to CONSIDER the benefits of trusting Hillary to be on the right track.
If I stomp in and inform them their whole world is full of shit and so are they and Hillary kisses babies (not on the lips like Trump, and not telling them how hot they’ll be in 18 I mean 14 years), they’ll just drop me as even a friend. And even in an election season as crazy as this one, I don’t need that.
Oh, and efgoldman: wrong? I’ll accept unqualified, that’s why I’m supporting Clinton, who is completely qualified in every sense. But Bernie’s endless stump speech is not wrong. Hillary confirmed important parts of it in her ‘leaked speeches’ and was right to do so.
Now, if you specifically mean the nutty paranoia of Nevada and the end-game, yeah that was wrong. Too many berniacs, who don’t know the details of how things are done. But that’s why we’re better off not running him for President, which we’re not.
PatrickG
@Omnes Omnibus: the conversation is revolving around what you are offering here. I volunteered tonight, you’re trashing a person who I might have spoken to tonight.
November 9 we can talk about how Sanders poisoned the well. Can we just finished king not right now? Priorities. And a long night.
Eta: that’s fucking not. Leaving it in to illustrate that autocorrect is the pressing issue of our time.
redshirt
@hovercraft: I agree with PatrickG. Let’s table the self criticism till 11/9. Till then, let’s come together to defeat literal Evil.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@efgoldman: Yup, sincerely deluded, sincerely disinterested in down-ticket races (“we’ll see”), sincerely moronic about the realities of working with Congress and the broader electorate (“look out the window, Mitch….”).
Applejinx
@PatrickG: In fairness this is a safe place to trash other posters. I’m not offended that he’s trashing me; I’m not making many concessions, because what set me off was the talk about the O’Keefe video.
I am STILL upset about the personal friend who totally bought into that and is adamant that it’s just as she thought it was.
When you have a friend, you try to see their side, and it’s definitely hurting my brain. I’m three hours past my bedtime and still distressed by that unresolved tension, and there’s not a bloody thing I can do about it. I cannot defend her, but man: if you’re trashing me, you might as well be ready to flush my really very good friend, who’s been there for me through some heavy stuff and vice versa.
Then there’s the other friend with the hemophiliac son…
PatrickG
@Applejinx: do me a favor and keep working em. Then we can fight our hearts out. ?
Omnes Omnibus
@PatrickG: I am not suggesting that Sanders poisoned the well. I am iffy about AJ’s usefullness as a HRC advocate. Me, I would prefer that AJ simply shut up and vote. I find AJ’s advocacy unhelpful. If you disagree, then disagree. But you should understand that I don’t hold AJ’s pro-Bernie views against him/her. Bernie has been doing a good job of advocating for Clinton.
redshirt
@Applejinx: Challenge them on one specific, your choice. Lies. Emails. Benghazi. Whatever. Make them claim something specific.
Once they realize they cannot, their minds will be freed of the Republican Hex and they will vote D forever after. Amen.
PatrickG
@Applejinx: also, follow my lead and get off the internet. Life issues like you’re describing suck, and the pixels just make it worse… take care of yourself first!
Applejinx
@redshirt: I’m inclined to challenge the Gowdy-worship by pointing out that he ‘redacted’ a thing that he thought the CIA was wrong not to redact, and then treated that as if it was a classified document. Honest, my ass.
But I can’t: or at least I can’t, in those terms. I gotta just let it stew (hence, I turn up on Balloon Juice in an upset frame of mind).
Sorry for being a buzzkill: don’t be complacent! I feel like this every time I see Bernie post something good on Facebook (particularly, in support of Clinton) and then watch the howling mob yelling at him and refusing to trust his decision to trust Hillary.
I know for a fact my very cynical tone is part of what won over my brother. He absolutely doesn’t listen, but that framing worked for him: he’d have written me off completely without it. I have to keep some part of it alive in case I exchange words with him again.
Can’t wait until this election is over. Night folks, thanks Patrick, no hard feelings Omnes et al. I am going to take some ibuprofen for this headache and try to sleep. Cheers, all you merry warriors ;)
PatrickG
@Omnes Omnibus: it’s not just that I disagree. It’s that I think you’re not helping. At the very least, you’re dispiriting a Hillary volunteer by specifically bringing up primary season bj threads. For my sake, let bj be a safe space for the next three weeks or so? :)
redshirt
@PatrickG: You’re asking Omnes not to be an asshole.
For political reasons.
Can it be done?
Omnes Omnibus
@Applejinx:
Golly. It is a way to avoid answering questions. I never really took you seriously, but damn.
SFAW
@efgoldman:
Yeah, I liked Mike. Not perfect, but pretty damn good.
Was high school in these parts? I seem to (very vaguely) remember something about Boston or Brookline for Mike, but I’m not sure if I’m filling in Brookline because that’s where you used to be, or what.
Omnes Omnibus
@PatrickG: I said that I don’t think that AJ is helpful. Disagree if you want.
Applejinx
@PatrickG: I’ll try harder to do that. I know better.
Heck, if my friend can politely not read me the riot act for daring to believe in Hillary, I can refrain from suggesting I don’t believe in Hillary ENOUGH :D
PatrickG
@redshirt: given that he ignored the rest of my comment entirely, I may pie filter him. Clearly nothing but a contestant asshole.
PatrickG
@Applejinx: thanks! We can fight later. :)
redshirt
@PatrickG: Don’t pie him. You should read his replies as they’ll generally be well spelled, and that’s a lot more than you can ask for a lot of posts.
SFAW
@Omnes Omnibus:
I just back-read that sub-thread. Jesus H. Christ.
But I’m glad I read it, because I had no idea that I was supporting Hillary because I thought she’d bring about a latter-day liberal paradise (or some such).
Jesus H. Christ.
Omnes Omnibus
@redshirt: Fuck you. I was trying to deal with an actual thing. But fuck it, you got to say something. Idiot.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@scott (the other one):
I’m not sure if there is a less charismatic pundit on TV. More smug and infuriating, sure, but damn he’s a dullard. Brit Hume is equally dull, but he claims to be an actual journalist.
Death Panel Truck
“…and I won’t let it stop me now!”
/Rod Stewart
Great guitar song. One of Beck’s best. Hell, one of rock’s best.
redshirt
@Omnes Omnibus:
This is the general caliber of Omnes responses these days. Sad!
I have many things to say Omnes. But I don’t need threats or profanity to do so.
SFAW
@PatrickG:
Or, as an alternative, you might consider developing a thicker skin.
Amazingly enough, there is any number of people on this blog who are assholes, at one time or another, to SOMEBODY. [Notable exceptions: Amir Khalid, efgoldman, Siubhan, raven, a few others.] Maybe even to more than one somebody. It may even be possible that some here think I am an asshole at times. (I’ll pause here a moment, to allow some to either stop laughing, or recover from fainting.)
But, asshole that I am, I do not pie anyone — not even “shomi,” whom I think should be banned permanently. I expect that at least one person has pied me at some point — so it goes. But I have developed a “short memory” for most slights that have occurred here, because to do otherwise is not a great long-term strategy.
Naturally, you can do as you please, etc., etc.
Turgidson
@Splitting Image:
I don’t think such a thing is possible. He’s just the fucking worst and whatever amount of scorn is heaped upon him is axiomatically woefully inadequate.
redshirt
@SFAW: Bravo!
No one should so called “Pie” anyone.
We all have cool stuff to say and read. Different opinions need not be feared. Hear out what everyone has to say. Then make up your mind.
If it’s a real troll, red in tooth and claw, it will be banned soon enough. Maybe years later.
If it’s a real internet troll, odds are they don’t have the persistence to last. Or are an actual virus.
SFAW
@redshirt:
Fuck you.
(No, I don’t mean it. I just wanted to see your reaction when I responded that way after your thoughtful comment.Of course, it’s kind of tough to see your immediate reaction without a Skype hookup. Oops.)
PatrickG
@SFAW: you, in turn, might consider that telling people to grow a thicker skin in this election cycle is morally despicable.
Shit is fucked up, and criticizing people working to get. Out. The. Vote. Is insane. Have you considered removing your callouses? You sound like a Republican, for crissakes.
Turgidson
@Adam L Silverman:
As I said in a thread earlier today, Trump could go on a livestreamed killing spree, and Andrea Mitchell would continue to insist that HRC’s EMAILZ were a far more damaging and consequential story than Trump’s most recent missteps. She’s totally off her rocker about it.
SFAW
@PatrickG:
Bite me.
“Morally despicable”? “You sound like a Republican”? Do tell.
Good to know that telling a delicate flower — whose quasi-knee-jerk response to some comment(s) he didn’t like was rumination about pieing someone — to grow a thicker skin, is considered (by you) to be “morally despicable.”
How pure is your fucking pony again?
Glad you’re working to GOTV, it’s important, valuable work.
But after Hillary gets elected, you might consider elective surgery to remove the pole that appears to be stuck up your ass. I don’t think it’s a life-threatening condition, but it might make life a little more pleasant for you. And us.
PatrickG
@SFAW:
I applaud your cynical distance from all the issues that matter to our movement. It must be a lot easier to snipe at people from afar, instead of actually, y’know, helping.
If you are helping, I applaud you, and apologize for my irritation! Could you maybe reread Omnes comments from above and consider how they might impact people who really, really fucking care about this election? Because honestly, Omnes sounds like a soapbox preacher who cares more about relitigating past comment threads than actually fucking helping.
Can you see how that might, just might, bother those of us who fucking care? Maybe you should check for the beam in your eye, dude.
Whatever. I’m out. I’ve got a full week of volunteering to do, not to mention training for election protection in Nevada. At least I got told off in a blog comment — that’s the important thing!
SFAW
@PatrickG:
What is your fucking problem?
I commented that pieing someone for a (perhaps tense) late-night exchange might not be the most reasoned way of handling things, and you’re trying to turn it into some “I’m fucking holier than thou because I’m doing GOTV work and you’re making fun of my work and you’re morally despicable, etc. etc. ” rant. Are you 13 years old?
Nothing I said, in my initial comment, had anything to do with any of your volunteering, GOTV, etc work. It’s like seeing Deadbeat Donnie getting asked about policy proposals, and he starts on his “Crooked Hillary” talking points.
“Our movement”? What the fuck movement is that, pray tell? That is, if you can get down off your high horse to explain to us lowly, morally despicable characters who are not worthy to shine your Tevas.
You really need to get a grip.
RadioOne
Mark Halperin is one of the stupidest pundits in cable news history.
PatrickG
@SFAW:
My volunteering comments are directly related to the conversations between Omnes and Applejinx. Did you not read the thread? It’s pretty clear. I’m genuinely irritated by people stirring shit on this side (“our movement” means electing Hillary fucking Clinton, if you’re really that dense).
In case you ARE that dense:
* I volunteered tonight
* I talked to people who sound a lot like Applejinx w.r.t. the primary
* It was frustrating, because we need those people to vote Hillary
* Having people (AT THIS STAGE OF THE ELECTION) continue to re-litigate the primary is fucking irritating
* Therefore, I leave irritable comments.
I’ll admit to some overly verbose word-vomit because I’m keyed up, but c’mon, dude. I am again going to accuse you of sounding like a Republican, because you brought up the stick up the ass first, and with Republicans, it’s always projection.
PatrickG
Correction of overstatement: I talked to one person who sounded a lot like Applejinx. Frankly, it was thrilling, because it was one of two actual conversations I had*. Most people just hang up or don’t answer. I’m sure that had no impact on my irritability tonight. *cough*
* The other was someone who was voting for Hillary. Woo!
SFAW
@PatrickG:
You know, you had a chance to “walk back” being a flaming asshole, and you just kept digging. (Apologies for the mixed metaphor.)
And, so as to soothe your obviously overwrought little brow (another mixed one, I’m on a roll):
A) I did not read the entire string, until after you started having a hard-on about my comment, but even after reading it, your reaction to Omnes was (to me) out of proportion.
2) I wrote only in response to your “threat” of pieing, and instead of saying — (because not every commenter here reads every fucking comment in a string, perhaps not even all of yours, you self-important shot) “read the damn chain of comments, you’ll see that Omnes was persistently being a total dickhead” — you started in with the “morally despicable” shit. Another out-of-proportion response
7) Your “look at how fucking important I am, because I’m bigly doing G.O.T.V.” response was part of what precipitated the “stick up the ass” comment. It’s too bad you were either to sleep-deprived, or just so full of yourself, that you couldn’t see your own sanctimony
L) You and I are on the same side of the aisle, asshole. Which you’d know if you’d bother to read my comments over the years. What?? You couldn’t be bothered to do some research?? WHAT THE FUCK?? You mean you don’t have the time nor energy to go back through any string to see where I’m coming from? Imagine that. And maybe you’ll see that not everyone seeks out your comments — even in a single thread — because, even though you may be the most important commenter on this thread (perhaps even in all of Balloon Juice), not every one has the time nor inclination to check back on every comment or string.
You’ve been very quick to call me “morally despicable,” a “Republican,” and so forth. Perhaps, if you got some sleep last night, you’ll decide you were just a bit over the top. One would hope so.
Good luck with the NV GOTV today (and this week). I see Masto is ahead of Heck in some polls, perhaps that will be the final outcome, too.
Procopius
I’m a little superstitious, too. I believe that if only we could get Butcher’s Bill Kristol to pronounce that Trump’s election is a sure thing, a slam dunk, as good as done, then we could relax a little bit.
Procopius
@Applejinx:
Well, that’s my problem, I doubt her intentions — a lot. I don’t know why she’s hanging out with the leaders of the neocons. Why did she promote Victoria Nuland? Why did she approve the coup in the Ukraine? Why did she approve the bombing campaign in Libya? No we haven’t heard the explanation yet, and probably never will. What did she think we were going to get for helping with that? The explanation given at the time was transparently a lie. Why has she been so insistent — obsessed — with getting Assad out in Syria? Just Because Prince Bindar or King Salman want it? I’m really scared she hangs out with irrational people who think we can “win” a nuclear war.