Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

Republicans are the party of chaos and catastrophe.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

I’ve spoken to my cat about this, but it doesn’t seem to do any good.

In my day, never was longer.

Take hopelessness and turn it into resilience.

I did not have this on my fuck 2022 bingo card.

Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

Shallow, uninformed, and lacking identity

Republicans in disarray!

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

It’s time for the GOP to dust off that post-2012 autopsy, completely ignore it, and light the party on fire again.

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

So it was an October Surprise A Day, like an Advent calendar but for crime.

If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.

Let us savor the impending downfall of lawless scoundrels who richly deserve the trouble barreling their way.

Accountability, motherfuckers.

He really is that stupid.

Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?

Yeah, with this crowd one never knows.

I know this must be bad for Joe Biden, I just don’t know how.

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

You are here: Home / Past Elections / Election 2016 / Monday Evening Open Thread: Vladimir’s Men Are Very Disappointed

Monday Evening Open Thread: Vladimir’s Men Are Very Disappointed

by | 331 Comments

This post is in: ,

Their choice of catspaws just aren’t doing the job of relitigating the Cold War. But the gentlemen at Foreign Affairs permit themselves a small frosty smile concerning “Russia’s October Surprise“:

The month of October is never a quiet one in a U.S. presidential election year. But this time, the run-up to the vote has been marked by a series of high-stakes cyber-skirmishes between Washington and Moscow. Over the summer, intent on derailing the campaign of Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton, Russia released damning emails from the Democratic National Committee (DNC), leading to the resignation of chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz. Hoping to create yet another stir, Russia then handed over a batch of Clinton’s e-mails to WikiLeaks on October 7. But much to Moscow’s chagrin, Washington was able to rob Moscow of the element of surprise, and Russia’s “October surprise” fizzled.

Just before the WikiLeaks dump, the White House released a statement in which it directly accused Russia for the first time of hacking the e-mails of DNC and Democratic Party members. The unexpected and unprecedented announcement dominated the headlines, leaving Russia’s and WikiLeaks’ attempts to show Clinton as shifty and close to Wall Street as a sideshow….

The failure of Russia’s long-planned October surprise to tip the election appears to have angered Moscow, which had planned this operation well in advance in hopes of destroying Clinton’s chance of winning the presidency. While news of the DNC hacks first surfaced in June, it was widely reported that they had taken place months earlier, and the e-mails were purposely released in July just before the Democratic National Convention. On July 27, Trump explicitly welcomed Russia’s release of the hacked e-mails, stating, “I will tell you this, Russia: If you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing. . . . I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press.” When the leaked e-mails failed to get sufficient attention, Trump supporters were deeply disappointed. Trump associate Roger Stone tweeted on October 1, “@HillaryClinton is done. #Wikileaks.” There is every reason to believe that Russian hackers and their sponsors felt the same way and were disappointed when Hillary’s support surged after the release, while Donald Trump’s campaign hit the shoals…

Trump’s continued decline in the polls throughout October suggests that Russia’s saber rattling has not had any clear electoral impact. International affairs are simply not central to most voters in this election. This is a fact that is hard for average Russians to understand, as their television propaganda keeps them on high alert to the possibility of a Western invasion. As a result, they tend to believe that Americans are also centrally focused on Russia, which is clearly not the case…

On October 17, a British bank announced that it was shutting down the United Kingdom­–based bank accounts of Russia Today, a pro-Kremlin media channel. Although the measure will not take Russia Today off the air in Europe, it will most likely make it extremely difficult for the Russian state propaganda network to operate in the United Kingdom. This is the first time that a Western government apparently intervened directly in the media to curb Russian English-language propaganda stations. The move comes just before France and Germany face vitally important elections in the next year. Russian hackers are also suspected of stealing the e-mails of Germany’s Christian Democrat Union parliamentarians, who face a challenge from pro-Russia right-wing extremists. There will probably be selective releases of e-mails from the incumbents there, too, as the election approaches.

Ecuador’s decision to deny WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange Internet access should probably be read in the same light. Although the circumstances of Ecuador’s decision remain unknown, there is every reason to suspect that it capitulated to Western government pressure, given the sensitive timing of Assange’s involvement in the U.S. presidential campaign. After all, external efforts to covertly undermine democratic elections have an unfortunate resonance in Latin America…

***********

Once having acknowledged that the 1960s are never coming back, thankfully, what’s on the agenda for the evening?

Reader Interactions

331Comments

  3. 3.

    nastybrutishntall

    And to think that friends on FB are using this as an excuse to not vote for Hillary. “See? Say what you will about Trump, but it’ll be WWIII with Hillary! Warmonger! DRONNNNNZ! Vote Third Party!”

    Propaganda. How does it work?

  6. 6.

    Mnemosyne

    Repeating my question from the thread below, but I think I already see where the consensus is going:

    If I did a last-minute Halloween poll for Movie Club for a horror movie, would you rather see something in the subgenre of Frankenstein Monster or Ghost?

    (So far, Ghost seems to be the preference.)

  7. 7.

    Mnemosyne

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Kitteh packing advice — make sure you put them in an isolated room when you are moving large amounts of stuff to make sure they don’t slip out in the bustle. We put our three in the bathroom at the old place, let the movers do their thing, and then brought them to the new place and kept them in the bedroom there for a few days so they could acclimate.

  8. 8.

    dmsilev

    @nastybrutishntall: Of course, the rather obvious fact that Trump is extremely easy to bait into overreacting to any provocation and thus should be kept far far away from any authority involving weaponry is apparently irrelevant to the purity pony brigade.

  10. 10.

    Schlemazel

    @Mnemosyne:
    I’d go for the original version of “Little Shop of Horrors”
    or
    “Comedy of Terrors”

    For scary I can’t think of anything more tense than “Alien”.

  11. 11.

    nastybrutishntall

    @Baud: And these are people who otherwise are extremely logical and thoughtful. I suppose No one considers that they are the target of propaganda. It’s always those other rubes.

  13. 13.

    ThresherK

    @nastybrutishntall: I have it on the highest authority that Elizabeth Warren will be primaried from the left. In Masachusetts. Because she threw her lot in with Hillz instead of Bernie.

  14. 14.

    dance around in your bones

    The 60’s are over?? Bummer, man.

    Oh, and check out Cheech and Chong’s Faceborg post for a free flashback.

  15. 15.

    different-church-lady

    There will be Hiroshimas and Nagasakis everywhere.

    And taco trucks. Don’t forget taco trucks.

  26. 26.

    Mnemosyne

    @Ken:

    Correct. To be even more specific, black and white ghost movies.

    @Schlemazel:

    I’m compiling a list of Comedy-Horror for a later time, so I’ll add those on.

    @ThresherK:

    “M” would be great for a Serial Killer option. I would also love to put “The Woman in the Window” as a noir option at some point.

  28. 28.

    AnotherBruce

    This is the shrug of shoulders that Elizabeth Warren gave to Curt Schilling. This is the indifference to the latest Wikileaks releases. This is why Julian Assange is never going to be in custody in the United States, because why make this simpleton jerk a martyr? All of these assholes have no idea how much their personal agendas are going to shrink under the 8 years of Madame President’s governance is going to be. I look forward to their rending of the garments.

  33. 33.

    patroclus

    There is just so much fail built into the idea that Russian shenanigans are going to sway the American electorate that I don’t even know where to begin. First, most Americans don’t have a clue who John Podesta is and why what he may have said or what was said to him last Spring makes any difference to anyone about anything. He isn’t running for anything and while he’s an important aide, aides can be replaced easily. Second, while most Americans are certainly aware of Russia (and their actions in Ukraine and Syria), they are not centrally focused on it the way Russians are and nowhere near as much as even Europeans are (because of proximity). Provocative actions by Russia are a concern but one of many such concerns of the myriad foreign policy issues we deal with. In some areas, they are actually our strategic partners; in others, our adversaries, but not our mortal enemy as in the Cold War era. Third, their method of disseminating their hacked stuff (Julian Assange) is about the worst way to affect Americans generally – he is largely regarded as a fugitive flake with not much credibility – if this stuff was coming from, say, a major U.K. or German news organization, it would be regarded differently. Fourth, the Russians hacksters don’t seem to realize that phony Clinton “scandals” is a matter that has been so extensively mined for nearly 30 years here in the States that there is already a well-established “oh it’s just b.s.” factor that they have failed to even attempt to overcome. We know the Clintons and we know that they have aides that say and do things but they have been vetted so extensively that just because something can be dressed up as being “sinister” it rarely actually means that or anything close. Sixth, we heard all this from the Bernie bros in the primary and we’ve moved on to the general election because Bernie didn’t get as many votes as Hillary – re-litigating this (when Bernie himself isn’t) is SO over. There’s more, but the Russians wouldn’t and don’t understand – much like we don’t really understand their internal politics all that well.

  34. 34.

    divF

    @AnotherBruce:

    I look forward to their rending of the garments.

    I’ve been trying to get a non-offensive version of this quote – here is the current attempt:

    What is best in life?
    To crush your enemies — See them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their spin doctors.

  36. 36.

    beth

    @Mnemosyne: My absolute favorite ghost movie is “The Uninvited” (the 1944 Ray Milland movie). So my vote would go for a good, old-fashioned ghost movie.

  39. 39.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @patroclus: Russia has been an autocracy since forever; I am not sure that Russians in general and certainly not in the upper reaches of their power structure really “get” democracy.

  40. 40.

    hovercraft

    @ThresherK:

    I have it on the highest authority that

    The same authority that says that Hillary will not be able to govern because of all of the dirt about progressives in the Podesta e-mails. The same ones who keep telling me that while everyone has been focusing on the crackup in the GOP, we have all been ignoring the one going on in the democratic party, but that as soon as the election is over, we are all going to see the democratic party explode. She won’t be able to fill her cabinet or govern, because the base of the party does not like her.
    Perhaps someone will be able to explain that activists and the base are not synonyms, the activists are loud and garner a lot of attention but as evidenced by the results of the primary the base liked her just fine and used their ballots to make themselves heard.

  41. 41.

    Frankensteinbeck

    Don’t worry! I just heard on Twitter that Project Veritas has proof Hillary Clinton broke campaign/PAC coordination laws. THIS time they’ll get moose and squirrel!

    I’m actually a little surprised to hear Putin has been pushing propaganda that the West will invade Russia. That is so wildly far from reality that it has to be found out and get backlash.

    @Mnemosyne:
    Monster Squad, obviously.

  42. 42.

    Mary G

    Scalzi has another post up saying obsessive checking the Internet for political news hurt his productivity so much he turned his latest novel in two months late. At NYCC he found a lot of editors and other writers had the same problem.

    He asked his readers if they had this problem too, and the majority of answers were yes. The words depression, fear, and anxiety were used a lot. These aren’t people who usually follow politics. Some of them are not even American. Best comment to me:

    Betsy Darwin says:
    OCTOBER 24, 2016 AT 2:32 PM
    I’m basically a nasty whirlwind of pussy rage obsessively checking the polls and watching Hillary do the shimmy as we plot the smashing of the patriarchy. Everything else is on hold until November 9th.

  45. 45.

    Matt McIrvin

    Zhirinovsky once promised that if elected President he would blow radioactive dust into the Baltics with giant fans. During the Bosnian civil war, he claimed he had personally supplied the Serbs with a secret superweapon to exterminate all the Muslims called the “elipton”. This is a man whose World War III predictions are generally not the most credible.

  48. 48.

    Mary G

    Adam, can you free my last comment? I don’t know why it’s in moderation. Probably the universe telling me to step away from the Internet.

  52. 52.

    Adam L Silverman

    @AnotherBruce: Actually, the way Swedish law is written and how it interacts with their extradition agreement with the US, he’s actually far less likely to be extradited to the US, should the US move to charge and extradite him than if he’s arrested in Britain for violating his bail agreement. Unless he’s absolutely stupid, he knows this, which means that he’s as worried about the rape and sexual assault charges in Sweden as he is in being extradited to the US.

  57. 57.

    dmsilev

    @hovercraft: And it’s not even ‘activists’ in general, it’s one particular subset of activists who have managed to convince themselves that they alone speak for Progressive Truth and that everyone else Is Doing It Wrong. See also the often-loudly-voiced claim that Bernie Sanders was speaking to “the base” of the Democratic Party while simultaneously losing the AA vote by big margins.

  59. 59.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Well, damn. Just learned that a friend — historian with a specialty in English/British Empire history — passed away very suddenly. I knew him for years through various Canadian Studies organizations and activities. He thought he had minor gall bladder problems, but turned out to be aggressive and fast-moving liver cancer.

    I can’t say I knew him super-well, but I always liked him and enjoyed being in his company. Cancer sucks. Fuck cancer.

  61. 61.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Mary G: It was one of our advantages during the Cold War. The Russians, as the major power within the Soviet Union, could not seem to avoid mirroring/being caught in the wilderness of mirrors in their Intel analyses of Americans. While this was, and is still for other things, a concern for America’s Intel Community, we fall into the trap far much less than the Russians do.

  64. 64.

    WaterGirl

    I could use some of that Balloon Juice wisdom for a decision I have to make tonight or tomorrow.

    I left the university 7 years ago, and I made certain to be completely debt-free before I left. I now have my own little consulting business doing bookkeeping and payroll with just a few clients. I always plan to get more clients but I don’t actually do it. I got a phone call today out of the blue offering me a full-time job doing bookkeeping and payroll. Money for the full-time job, as offered, is what I would make in 20 hours of consulting. (after taxes)

    The thing is, I built a screened-in porch this summer and now i am back in debt. So if I took this job for a year I would be able to be debt-free again, but it would mean the whole 8-5 thing again. I haven’t done that in years and have absolutely no desire to do it, but I would really like to be debt-free again. The porch cost more than anticipated (surprise!) and it seems kind of irresponsible to turn my back on this opportunity to be debt-free.

    I’m thinking of countering the “thirty thousand plus” offer with 50k, and only taking it if he’ll go up to 40k. I’m thinking worst case I give it a try for 6 months (cold weather months) and if I hate it then it’s only 6 months and then I’ll have half of my debt paid off.

    What do you guys think?

    edit: Job offer is from someone I have known since 1983 who is really looking for someone he knows and trusts and who will do a good job. The last part is easy, the first part can be harder for an employer to come by.

  65. 65.

    Honus

    @Schlemazel: for the classic answer to scariest movie ever, you have to go with “Night of the Hunter” (filmed along the Ohio river in Proctor, West Virginia). But Alien is damn scary.

  67. 67.

    SRW1

    Zhirinovsky is the official Duma nutcase, kinda like Louie Gomert, except that Zhirinovsky also is a vice-chair of the Russian parliament and an alcoholic.
    .
    Anybody interested in a summary of his escapades over the years, here’s a Vice article from 2013.

  68. 68.

    Adam L Silverman

    @patroclus: And this:

    First, most Americans don’t have a clue who John Podesta is and why what he may have said or what was said to him last Spring makes any difference to anyone about anything. He isn’t running for anything and while he’s an important aide, aides can be replaced easily.

    is why RT, Sputkik, Fox News, the Wall Street Journal, etc have all been pushing these as Clinton emails – rather than emails sent or received, and most often just cced and bcced on, by Podesta.

  71. 71.

    patroclus

    @Omnes Omnibus: Well, there are many smart sophisticated well-traveled Russians, so one could think that they would understand it, but regarding the American style of democracy, I agree that they really don’t get it at all. They don’t seem to understand that it’s a series of state-run elections, all with their own idiosyncracies that can’t really be rigged in an all-encompassing way (like Russian “elections” or like many European elections). Hillary/Podesta/DWS didn’t really “rig” the primary against Bernie in any way and most Americans fully know this. And despite what Trump alleges, it can’t be done in the general election either. So, the underlying Russian hackster assumption that sinister-sounding evidence of rigging means anything is just a lot of hooey to most Americans. And because it’s hooey, they can’t even get a hearing except among fringe CTers. It’s just background noise that is meaningless.

  72. 72.

    Jeffro

    Loving my new official DJT tinfoil hat (instructions can be found at HRC’s website, if FYWP would quit eating them)

  73. 73.

    ThresherK

    @hovercraft: My jaw dropped when the BernieStein Bores* in my FB feed pulled this out of their collective asses. Not a thing from these BayStaters about the ridiculosity of Schilling, nor how the CFPB doing what it’s supposed to, or speculating about how Trump’s anchor chains are gonna sink a number of Republicans with him, and how we may have a great opportunity to get some real governing done.

    No, just “Progressives in Massachusetts are angry with Elizabeth Warren! We’re gonna primary her!” Har-de-fucking-har. With a pile of Breitbart links about Wikileaks.

    (*How does that sound? I’m sorta trying it out.)

  74. 74.

    Adam L Silverman

    @raven: Yep. Is he still citing Russian sources on Syria and arguing about starting a nuclear war with Russia?

  80. 80.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @dmsilev:
    I certainly remember how Obama was not going to get reelected because ‘the base’ hated him. I wonder which commenters here were pushing that narrative, and what they’ve said during this election?

  82. 82.

    burnspbesq

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I didn’t say anything about detonating it. Let him walk around Moscow with it sticking out of his rectum. That should be highly amusing.

  83. 83.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Mary G: Already done. Its romping around with the 1/2 dozen I scrounged out of the trash. And no, I do not know why they were in there.

  85. 85.

    ThresherK

    @Adam L Silverman: Heehee. No, nobody as famous, accomplished, or as universally beloved as Stein. Just some leftier-than-thou magical rainbow-farting unicorn whom we’ve never heard of yet.

  86. 86.

    Gelfling 545

    Totally off topic but I am just enraged. Thank tiny Baby Jesus my nephew is moving out of blighted Indiana next week. He broke his wrist in the midst of his moving preparations and went back to the er today because it was giving him trouble. He found that, totally erroneously, the er personnel altered his records to say that he is hiv positive, which he is not. Why? Because he’s gay so MUST be hiv positive, no lab test needed! Now he has, since high school, been scrupulous about being tested regularly. But in good old Indiana apparently actual facts make no difference. Let’s just stick stuff on somebody’s medical revord, just because. Jesus Christ.

  88. 88.

    Omnes Omnibus

    At my workplace, we have a IM system to allow easy internal communications. When one’s name is listed in the directory, there is a space for a little tag line. Lots of people use some godawful inspirational bs. Not our tech support guy – he is a Mexican immigrant and his tagline is currently “Bad Hombre.” Before the last debate, it was “Wetback.” I wonder how he really feels about Trump.

  89. 89.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Frankensteinbeck: Its so bad its almost good. From the same guy that did the Puppetmaster movies. In fact two of the three dolls are recycled from the Puppetmaster movies.

  91. 91.

    Matt McIrvin

    @SRW1: I’ve thought of Donald Trump as the American Zhirinovsky for a while now. But Trump got a lot further than Zhirinovsky ever does, maybe because he made a name for himself as a celebrity non-politician.

  92. 92.

    Anne Laurie

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Zhirinovsky once promised that if elected President he would blow radioactive dust into the Baltics with giant fans. During the Bosnian civil war, he claimed he had personally supplied the Serbs with a secret superweapon to exterminate all the Muslims called the “elipton”. This is a man whose World War III predictions are generally not the most credible.

    Makes him a perfect foreign partner for Not-President Trump, then, yes?

  93. 93.

    WaterGirl

    @Baud: Thanks. I wouldn’t feel right going into it knowing I would only stay 6 months, but I feel like 6 months is enough time to give something a fair shot. So if I really didn’t like it at that point, I would feel okay bowing out.

    I would definitely keep my current clients while working the new job, which the job-offering fellow is fine with.

  96. 96.

    Mary G

    @WaterGirl: Could you negotiate more money and fewer hours?

    As an alternative, I’ll chip in for a GoFundMe if you put one up. I would hate to go back to a cubicle even though I wish I was well enough to.

  97. 97.

    hovercraft

    @ThresherK:
    Now I have the Bernstein Bears song in my head, I haven’t heard it in a while, kids outgrew it. Your’s made me smile, but they lack the cuteness of the original.

  98. 98.

    dance around in your bones

    @Anne Laurie: I’m maintaining, maintaining. (That used to be what we said when in public under the influence of…..things.” Ya gotta maintain!”)
    Thanks for noticing! I’m a pretty constant lurker…..

  101. 101.

    WaterGirl

    @Baud: I should say I work only about 10 hours a week on average at this point, so I would have to seriously add more clients if I want to be debt-free in a year.

  104. 104.

    Shana

    We’re trying to figure out where to take a week’s vacation in January. We’d like somewhere warm and zika-free. It’s a surprisingly difficult needle to thread. Any suggestions?

    We were looking at Bermuda, but it’s not really warm in January. Thinking of Sedona but not really warm either but it’s not a beach so less important.

  107. 107.

    patroclus

    @Adam L Silverman: Agreed, but when they do that (spin Podesta’s e-mails as HRC’s), they fall into the trap of a previously-existing Clinton e-mail “non-scandal” which just makes the whole thing more confusing and difficult to explain and the trap of multitudinous prior Clinton “scandals” that amounted to nothing. And then, they just get lost in the weeds of explaining why this one is SO different and SO sinister and it then disappears into a miasma of nothingness. The Russians don’t seem to understand that the boy has cried wolf way too many times already.

  108. 108.

    WaterGirl

    @Major Major Major Major: That’s the bad part. I have 15k at 3.9% until June, then it turns into a pumpkin at something like 10%. At that point, I would have to take whatever isn’t paid off out of my retirement savings. There is another 7k at 7% interest in my line of credit. Again, whatever I can’t pay off has to come out of my retirement savings.

  109. 109.

    Steeplejack (tablet)

    @Mary G:

    Your blockquote contained a forbidden word. FYWP doesn’t care that you were quoting someone else. You post it, you own it!

  110. 110.

    debbie

    @WaterGirl:

    Unless you can with certainty commit to marketing yourself while working with your clients, take that job. I ended up losing my freelance business (graphic design for local nonprofits) because i felt I was too busy to solicit new business. I even turned down a full-time job because I liked being my own boss. Thanks to Wall Street, I lost what I had and couldn’t get any new business. It took me a year and a half to find a job.

    If you decide to stay on your own, make finding new business your top priority.

  113. 113.

    Mary G

    @Adam L Silverman: I read that too. The detail about Julian waking him up in the wee hours by poking him with a stuffed giraffe in order to badger him to sign the NDA and them not letting him get up to put pants on was whack.

  115. 115.

    Anne Laurie

    @WaterGirl:

    I’m thinking of countering the “thirty thousand plus” offer with 50k, and only taking it if he’ll go up to 40k. I’m thinking worst case I give it a try for 6 months (cold weather months) and if I hate it then it’s only 6 months and then I’ll have half of my debt paid off.

    What do you guys think?

    edit: Job offer is from someone I have known since 1983 who is really looking for someone he knows and trusts and who will do a good job. The last part is easy, the first part can be harder for an employer to come by.

    Well, if you know and trust the guy in return, can you be upfront about why you’d be taking his job & for how long?

    I’m the worst person to give advice on this, but it seems like you might both be less stressed in a situation where he knew you were giving him a set period of time (while he did a deeper search for a ‘permanent’ replacement) and you knew you could count down to a return to self-employment?

  117. 117.

    raven

    @Omnes Omnibus: Mexican Bandit: [coming up the hill, waving a red handkerchief tied to a stick] Hey, hombre!
    John Russell: [Russell finishes loading his rifle and goes to see what the Mexican Bandit wants]
    Mexican Bandit: Look amigo, how close you come!
    [indicating the wound on his stomach]
    John Russell: I tried to do better; I think you moved.
    Mexican Bandit: You can be sure I move! How do you prefer them, eh, tied to a tree?

  119. 119.

    Ajabu

    @beth:
    Interesting bit of trivia re: The Uninvited. As jazz musician I already knew this but most folks are not aware that: Victor Young’s score produced a popular hit, “Stella by Starlight”, based on the film’s main theme. “Stella by Starlight”, now a jazz standard, is prized by players for its haunting and rich harmony.[4] It has been recorded numerous times,[5] by such artists as Miles Davis, Stan Getz and Dexter Gordon, and as a vocal (with lyrics by Ned Washington) by singers Dick Haymes, Frank Sinatra, Ray Charles, Tony Bennett, Ella Fitzgerald among others.
    The good old standards…

  120. 120.

    WaterGirl

    @Mary G: I asked about full-time, but working from home. (nope!) I asked about working 3 days a week at the office. (nope!) It’s full-time, 5 days a week.

  122. 122.

    Anne Laurie

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Jill Stein is from Massachusetts?

    It’s not just the blue-collar talk-radio listeners who give our Commonwealth its reputation for Masshole behavior, alas!

  123. 123.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Gelfling 545: Tell him to contact an attorney. That’s several Federal felonies. He also has a lawsuit for civil damages on his hands. I’ll let the actual attorney contingent weigh in, but the hospital personnel that did that have created some serious liability for themselves and the hospital they work at.

  127. 127.

    WaterGirl

    @debbie: Every fall I say “This is a great time to find new clients because the first of the year is a great time to start with someone new, and this gives them time to think about it, etc.” But I never do it. All my clients are either IT clients (from my previous career) or are word of mouth clients for bookkeeping and payroll.

  134. 134.

    debbie

    @WaterGirl:

    Your 15k isn’t a credit card, is it? Because you could do a balance transfer to one of those zero percent dealies and buy yourself another 18 months to pay the debt down or off.

  135. 135.

    WaterGirl

    @Anne Laurie: Interesting idea. The thing is, since it’s been 10 years since I have had to “go to work every morning”, and when I did that I managed a group of IT people at the university, so I have never had a full-time job doing payroll and bookkeeping. I would probably learn some things at this job, and I might even like it. I can’t imagine it would be as stressful and managing an IT group that was always understaffed for the work we had to do.

    If I was sure I wouldn’t stay longer, it would be the right thing to talk to him about it. But I don’t know whether I would like it or not. It’s only a mile away from my house, so I could even come home at lunchtime, I imagine. I think if I explain that I want to pay off the porch, I lose bargaining power for salary.

  138. 138.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Gelfling 545:

    Holy fuck, I can’t even. How can they do that? Are there no medical ethicists in the state of Indiana? (Rhetorical, I suppose.)

    I hope he can fight this and get all the false information completely expunged from his medical records. What a fucking outrage.

  142. 142.

    WaterGirl

    @srv: Good question. I’ll be able to keep my current clients; not worried about that. Yay, something to not worry about!

  144. 144.

    Ruckus

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Cancer sucks. Fuck cancer.

    Agreed.
    FUCK FUCKING CANCER
    Now on to better business. I’ve moved 3 times in the last 4 yrs. 5 times in the last 10. I agree, it isn’t as much fun as it sounds. I now keep lots of stuff in boxes so it’s easier next time. Also trying to get rid of stuff so there is less to move. Not having a lot of success getting off my dead ass. And there will be a next time I’m sure.

  145. 145.

    WaterGirl

    @debbie: Yes, the 15k is my credit card. I haven’t used a credit card in over 10 years, but i opened it specifically because that was the best interest rate I could get (3.9%) without getting a mortgage or home equity loan. I own my house outright, which gives me a lot of comfort as a single person, so I didn’t want to go the mortgage or home equity route.

  146. 146.

    dance around in your bones

    @WaterGirl: I have been doing a lot of lurking while thinking up terribly witty comments I ncould have typed (hours later). It feels like family (fractious yet funny – with points to be made!) hanging around here.

  147. 147.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Tell him to contact an attorney. That’s several Federal felonies. He also has a lawsuit for civil damages on his hands. I’ll let the actual attorney contingent weigh in, but the hospital personnel that did that have created some serious liability for themselves and the hospital they work at.

    Ooh, I really love it when you talk lawyer.

  148. 148.

    WaterGirl

    @debbie: I know that’s true, but I am not so great at self-promotion.

    I have 50% of my old university salary in retirement and I have health care for life, so I do okay with my retirement and my little consulting business. Well, I DID, until i built the porch. Love the porch don’t regret it – since the tree fell on my house 3 years ago my yard is brutal with all sun all the time. But damn, do I hate not being debt-free.

  149. 149.

    Joel

    Restraint? Why are you so concerned with saving their lives? The whole idea is to kill the bastards. At the end of the war if there are two Americans and one Russian left alive, we win!

    Thomas S. Power, Commander In Chief, Strategic Air Command

  151. 151.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Gelfling 545: Its illegal to falsify medical records. And if Indiana has a state requirement that those with HIV have to be reported to the state public health folks, that’s going to be another issue. As I said, see if you can get one of the actual attorneys to weigh in as I only know a bunch of this stuff second hand because 1) my Mom used to be a section head at a hospital/in a healthcare system and 2) I’ve dated several nurses.

  156. 156.

    Mnemosyne

    @WaterGirl:

    Along the lines of what AL is suggesting, you might be able to negotiate the hours and/or do some telecommuting if that’s part of your hesitation. Unless you’re also going to have some kind of receptionist or supervisory duties that require you to be on-site, there’s usually a way to telecommute.

  158. 158.

    Ruckus

    @WaterGirl:
    I’ve worked for myself for most of my life. It does have it’s up sides but it also has it’s down sides. That regular paycheck of a know quantity is a major up side, especially with someone you know and like. The 8-5 is a down side of sorts depending on what you were doing for yourself. One of my businesses I had to work insane hours a lot of the time to keep things going. That is a huge down side. My second business had set times and once the doors closed for the day, work was done. Not nearly as bad. Being out of debt is a huge upside in my mind, having been bigly in the other direction before. One consideration would be, can you pick up where you left off if you work for 6 months and then quit? Second, would quitting harm you friendship?
    That’s about all I got.

  159. 159.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Gelfling 545: As Adam said, he should get a lawyer. Even if he is in the reddest part of IN, there should be someone willing to take a case like this.

  164. 164.

    Mnemosyne

    @gene108:

    I don’t have enough time to do both, but I definitely want to do Pre-Code horror on my personal blog. “Freaks” is one of those; “Island of Lost Souls” would be another choice.

    The American version of “The Ring” scared the crap out of me, but Bad Afterlife movies tend to freak me out more than mere slasher movies.

  166. 166.

    WaterGirl

    @Mnemosyne: Nope, tried that. He was adamant that it has to be full-time in the office. Thankfully no office duties. (I think!) Good question for me to ask tomorrow.

  167. 167.

    Adam L Silverman

    @SiubhanDuinne: A large amount of after work conversation was me listening to venting and processing about which doctor, which nurse, which therapist, etc was screwing up – procedures, protocols, HIPPA, etc. Stuff sinks in after a while.

  169. 169.

    KS in MA

    @Mnemosyne: The Frederic March version of “Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde” is still my favorite horror movie. No makeup, no special effects, just scary all the way through. Sorry, I’m an outlier, I know…

  170. 170.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Omnes Omnibus: Actual nurses. To my disappointment none of them had little white hats, short white dresses, and white fishnet stockings. Nor were they willing to consider them either.

  172. 172.

    Anne Laurie

    @WaterGirl:

    If I was sure I wouldn’t stay longer, it would be the right thing to talk to him about it. But I don’t know whether I would like it or not. It’s only a mile away from my house, so I could even come home at lunchtime, I imagine. I think if I explain that I want to pay off the porch, I lose bargaining power for salary.

    Don’t think you need to be that, shall we say, ‘granular’. I was thinking more along the lines of telling him you’d never done this specific role on a full-time basis, so you’d commit to six months/a year, after which both of you could re-examine how things were working out. You might decide you liked it enough to keep it up; you might decide you’d had your fill; he might decide that you working from home at least part of the time wasn’t as big a risk as he’d thought it might be; you might mutually be sick of each other. But knowing there was a ‘deadline’ of sorts, I think, would give you both a framework for considering your next step(s). (And he’d know that if he tried to push you too hard, you were prepared to walk away — sometimes bosses need that reminder, even if they’re not consciously planning to take advantage!)

  173. 173.

    BlueNC

    @Mnemosyne: 30 hours, higher rate, keep the clients? Or offer to go 29.5 because that would make you part-time (no benefits for him to pay), and take a higher hourly rate instead. That fixes your cash issue and also gives him a win.

  175. 175.

    gene108

    @WaterGirl:

    Finding someone you know is trustworthy for keeping books is important, and not always easy to find. If he knows you well enough, it might be worth a premium.

    Do you like the sort of business your friend is in or are you indifferent, because an office job is an office job, with few variations.

  177. 177.

    beth

    @Ajabu: Interesting – thanks for that info. I’ll have to pay a bit more attention to the score when I do my annual Halloween viewing.

  179. 179.

    Ceci n'est pas mon nym

    @SiubhanDuinne: Had a similar experience. Googled a friend from grad school who I hadn’t kept in close touch with, last saw perhaps 10 years ago (invited her to give a seminar at my place of employment). And a 2013 obituary turned up. It was a shocker. “After a long illness”, which I guess means cancer.

  181. 181.

    WaterGirl

    @Ruckus: I can definitely keep my current clients, so I don’t have to worry about that. As for the friendship, I think if I give it a fair shot that he would understand if the 8-5 thing doesn’t work out long-term.

    It’s not a talk-much-about-your-personal-life friendship; more of a business friendship. We’ve had a professional relationship for years, and he does my taxes and I have done a couple of bookkeeping projects for him as part of my consulting. He’s who I talked to for advice when I was thinking about moving from IT to bookkeeping when I left the university. I think we’d be okay.

  184. 184.

    Mnemosyne

    @WaterGirl:

    It may still be negotiable down the road, though, once you see how the office runs and he sees how you work. Basically, I’m saying don’t assume that you’ll be trapped in cubicle life forever — he might be willing to renegotiate telecommuting once he sees up close what a great job you can do. Think of it as a potential promotion opportunity to work towards.

  185. 185.

    gene108

    @Mnemosyne:

    The American version of “The Ring” scared the crap out of me, but Bad Afterlife movies tend to freak me out more than mere slasher movies.

    The movie had me sleeping with the lights on for a couple of days, after I saw it. Scared me good and proper.

  190. 190.

    Mnemosyne

    @KS in MA:

    Actually, the Fredric March version does have makeup and some (visual) effects. In fact, the transformation scene in that film influenced the transformation of the wicked Queen in Disney’s “Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs.”

    I think it’s the Spencer Tracy version that has no special makeup.

  191. 191.

    WaterGirl

    @BlueNC: I have health insurance for life through the university because I was there for 20+ years, so I wouldn’t need insurance. Was hoping that could be a bargaining point for a higher salary. :-) But his is a small office, so I have no idea if he even offers insurance to his employees. Too small to be required to do so.

  192. 192.

    debbie

    @WaterGirl:

    Take a look at Discover’s balance transfer deal. The one I got was 0% for 18 months and then 10.99%. Since I paid off my balance in 18 months, it worked out great for me.

  194. 194.

    WaterGirl

    @gene108: Ah, I should have been more clear. I would not be doing the books for his business. The office provides payroll and bookkeeping services (and taxes but I have NO interest in that side of things) for clients. I would be doing payroll and bookkeeping for his clients.

  195. 195.

    Ceci n'est pas mon nym

    @gene108: I usually hate it when an American studio feels the need to remake a great foreign film, but “The Ring” was a rare case where the remake is better.

  196. 196.

    BR

    @Adam L Silverman:

    You can actually buy modems that aren’t on their list as long as they have the same chipset as one that they approve. Then you have to tell them on the phone the MAC address of the modem first, and then the modem model number (claim you have one from their approved list that has the same chip as yours). Their system can’t tell, and it’ll work fine.

  198. 198.

    Ruckus

    @WaterGirl:
    Given what you’ve said while I was writing my answer I’d say take the job. You won’t be any worse off with your current clients, you’ll have a good chance to get out of debt or at least knock it down a lot, so really I don’t see a down side. Ask for the money for sure, everyone should make a reasonable salary for their time and expertise. Worse case he’ll say no and you then have to make the decision if it’s enough. 8 to 5 isn’t all that bad, says the guy who does it 3 days a week. (Not now as commented on recently but 7 more days of radiation, then we wait to see if it actually worked)

  199. 199.

    WaterGirl

    @debbie: I thought all the balance transfers at 0% had a 4% balance transfer fee. So it’s like you are paying a years worth of 4% interest up front.

    edit: although if you can pay it off within a year, 4% beats 10%.

  200. 200.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Ceci n’est pas mon nym:

    When that happens, it doesn’t matter how many years ago the death took place — it is the moment when you first learn of it that stays in your mind as the loss. (Happened with me at my 25th high school reunion, when I learned that a h.s. friend had died ten years earlier of breast cancer — but the reunion was the first I’d heard of it, so the shock was as profound as it would have been a decade earlier.) With Jamie, my friend who just died, I was lucky enough to be notified today by a mutual friend so at least there’s not that disconcerting lag time.

  203. 203.

    Major Major Major Major

    @Ceci n’est pas mon nym: agreed.

    Somebody mentioned Alien upthread or on a different thread and pound for pound that movie is still a heavy hitter in a dark room with the sound up.

    The Babadook is a good little freakout if you want something contemporary but it won’t be making anybody’s top ten of all time lists.

  204. 204.

    CaseyL

    @Mnemosyne: It’s not B&W, but it’s a doozy of a suspense/horror movie: The Skeleton Key. (Kate Hudson, John Hurt, Geena Rowlands, doozy of a cast, too.)

  206. 206.

    JR in WV

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    This!! The idea that a President (in their eyes kind of a Tsar) would voluntarily step down at the end of their elected term, to retire to scholastics, or whatever, is completely unbelievable. This has been a problem for new democracies all over the world, esp in Africa.

    Russia and the former Soviet Union never had that kind of peaceful turn over of power.

    They also don’t understand that Presidents are NOT rulers, but are politicians, constrained both by Congress and the Judiciary. This has never been the case in Russia, or the USSR. First came the Tsars, then the politburo and its Chairman, now, after a brief wisp of Democracy, Putin, who has reformed their government twice to maintain absolute power.

  208. 208.

    WaterGirl

    @Ruckus: I saw what you wrote about waiting a year to find out if the radiation worked. That would be beyond hard. You are such a good guy, I am definitely hoping for good outcomes for you.

    And thanks for your thoughts on the job decision!

  210. 210.

    Chris T.

    @Shana: Australia or New Zealand. Oz-stralia is downright hot in Jan since it’s the middle of summer and Oz is always hot anyway, but Jan/Feb is a good time to visit Tasmania, which is otherwise cool and wet, like NZ.

  211. 211.

    jl

    @nastybrutishntall:

    ‘ Say what you will about Trump, but it’ll be WWIII with Hillary! Warmonger! DRONNNNNZ! Vote Third Party!” ‘

    OK, I’ll say this about Trump: he doesn’t seem to understand how NATO works, thinks the US should use foreign policy and mutual defense pacts as an excuse for extortion rackets. The guy is ignorant as shit. Note that Trump’s statement that if Russia threatened a NATO country, Trump would look through their papers and he would decide whether they were ‘paid up’ and get back to them on the situation was in the context of the Baltic countries, which are among the most diligent and paid up NATO allies we have.

    So, yeah, I am worried about HRC being too hawkish. But I am not going to vote for an ignorant impulsive fool who could blunder and hothead us into Nagasakis and Hiroshimas everywhere any day of the week. HRC is less likely to go filibustering, and regardless of Russia’s bad deeds in Caucuses, the Dub and Cheney did some stupid stunts in Georgia, the country that brought on a mini crisis, and which McCain tried to capitalize on for partisan political gain during his general election campaign.

    I’d rather worry about a sane informed and rational Democrat, even if she is a little more hawkish than I like.

  212. 212.

    WaterGirl

    Thanks to everyone who offered their thoughts on the job decision. I plan to read all your comments again in the morning, and if anyone else chimes in between now and then, that would be great, too. Every reply has brought me a fuller consideration of the whole picture.

    Now I’m going to take a shower and settle down for some mindless TV, hopefully followed by a good night’s sleep before the big decision tomorrow.

  217. 217.

    Steeplejack

    @WaterGirl:

    Reading your message, I’m getting kind of a negative vibe about taking the full-time job. Maybe it’s my own experience talking. I worked “regular” jobs for years, then got into software consulting in the late ’80s. Did some long, on-site contract gigs occasionally and went back to a full-time job once for a year, but mostly it was one-man freelance stuff, which sounds similar to what you’re doing now.

    If the debt is weighing on you, couldn’t that act as the motivation you need to get more clients for your current business? And is there the possibility that if you shut down your business for a year to take the full-time job it will be hard to pick up those clients again?

    As for the full-time job, my spidey sense is tingling about the “8:00 to 5:00” part. In today’s business environment, do any office people work strict hours? “Hey, W.G., it’s payroll day [or quarterly filings or whatever], so you need to stay until it’s done. But, no, unfortunately you can’t take Friday afternoon off for comp time. The job is 8:00 to 5:00 all week, remember?” It always seems to flex one way but not the other.

    There will be costs associated with the full-time job: lunch out, dry-cleaning, etc. (When I was working at home on projects I could mooch around in sweatpants and T-shirts; didn’t have to get dressed up every day.) And I think you have a dog or dogs? Unless they have a dog door and a fenced yard, they are going to be on a tight schedule of walkies or pee breaks. Few can last all day, especially if the workday runs a little long.

    Finally, is it possible that this person doesn’t really need a full-time person? Consider the possibility that he could be morphed into a “superclient” who gets two or three full days a week on site. That could fill in your client schedule, get you a chunk of extra income and (perhaps) meet his needs.

    Failing that, maybe it comes down to a question of “motivation.” Are you more likely to get the debt-paying extra income by going into harness in the full-time job or by overcoming your inertia to get more clients for your business?

    ETA: Haven’t read the thread, but I see at the bottom that maybe the guy has ruled out the part-time (superclient) thing.

  220. 220.

    piratedan

    @Shana: while Sedona certainly gets its share of winter, Phoenix and Tucson are very mild in comparison. I’m sure my fellow Arizona juicers could provide you with possible touristy things depending upon your desired wishes.

  222. 222.

    Ruckus

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    Thanks!
    Hey it isn’t all that bad. Some of the guys I sit around and talk with are in far worse positions than I am. One guy with the “better” type of lung cancer had open heart surgery and they found he also has the “bad” type. Haven’t seen him in a few weeks, hopefully it’s just appointment time differences. It’s like sitting in a chemo ward, everyone there has stories and it’s hard to feel sorry for yourself when you have enough common company and hear stories like the one above.

  228. 228.

    Ruckus

    @Chris T.:
    January is a great time to see NZ. Did a 3 week motorcycle tour of both islands a few yrs ago in January. A bit of rain on occasion but mostly about the best place I’ve ever vacationed.

  230. 230.

    schrodinger's cat

    After I am all moved in and Mnem is done reviewing horror flicks for the coming weekend. I am thinking of reviewing spy stories and the sci-fi after that. Suggestions and requests welcome.

  232. 232.

    JR in WV

    @Shana:

    Tucson is nice. We have a place in the country about two hours SE of there, and always enjoy spending time there. It can get chilly, but more often it’s brisk at night and clear blue sunny days in the 70s or more. Lots of good hiking, Sonoran Desert Museum, Saguaro National Park East, mountain ranges rising up out of the high desert plains.

    Good food, too. And art. Old Town adobe houses for rent. We once stayed at a B&B in an old historic house across the street from UA Med School ER and never heard an ambulance. Two feet of masonry will do that.

    Lodge on the Desert is a hotel built like that, good restaurant, pool, hot tub, etc. Check it out. Ask for a room in the old part.

  234. 234.

    Steeplejack

    @WaterGirl:

    [. . .] I work only about 10 hours a week on average at this point [. . .].

    Holy shnikeys! You could get a few more clients, double your income and still be working only 20 hours a week! You don’t need the full-time job; you need a career coach, preferably a mean one with a whip.

    Or maybe just someone who would market you and drum up the clients for a finder’s fee.

  235. 235.

    SFAW

    @Mnemosyne:

    If I did a last-minute Halloween poll for Movie Club for a horror movie,

    Silverado

    Oh, sorry, I thought you wrote “horrible.”
    Never mind.

  236. 236.

    amk

    from donald trump is a moral, church going, family values, honest man to putin is our friend we should listen to – how fast the rw’ers flushed down their ‘principles’ down the toilet when they heard the sweet words of blatant racism and bigotry. pathetic pos.

  239. 239.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Steeplejack: There was a period of time when I tried to have a solo law practice because you aren’t the boss of me. I know the law. I am very, very good with clients. I can’t drum up business for shit.

    ETA: There is a saying about lawyers: there are finders, minders, and grinders. I am temperamentally a minder.

  240. 240.

    SFAW

    @jl:

    GOPers Threaten TV Stations With Lawsuits For Ads Tying Them To Trump

    Yeah, saw that earlier. I believe the proper response from the TV stations is:

    “I wish a motherfucker GOPer would.”

  246. 246.

    scav

    @Omnes Omnibus: They seem to have been abstracted into those nice feathers somehow (I only learned the Strahler number calculation using lines, so presumably there are abstraction rules for lakes that handle that). It certainly is looking like everything in that green near the north is what feeds into the Great Lakes and out partially through Canada.

  252. 252.

    NotMax

    @schrodinger’s cat

    First thing is to either go to the cable company’s office nearest you (or check online) and ask for THEIR list of “approved” or “compatible” modems – the brands and models they will accept to run their precious signal through. My cable provider (not the same company as yours) readily handed a pre-printed four-page list over the counter.

    With that info on hand, immediately scratch off any of those on the list which are rated at a speed below what you are paying for. There will probably be a column for wired-only models and separate column for wi-fi capable modems.

    If the brand name Arris is among those listed, give priority to purchasing from among the choices for that brand.

    Once you have bought one, call the cable company and let them walk you through installation*. They have to be given a specific code number which is on a sticker on the back or bottom of the individual unit, then ping it and do quasi-mysterious stuff from their end, it’s not like you can just plug in a your modem and be totally good to go as is the case with their proprietary hardware.

    *Takes all of maybe 10 minutes once you get through to a human.

  254. 254.

    WaterGirl

    @dance around in your bones: Lurk less, comment more! They don’t all have to be witty :-)

    When I was showering I realized I hadn’t replied to your reply. Snuck back to reply to you, now off to mindless tv and no more thinking about the job decision until tomorrow. Or, until I can’t sleep because it’s all rattling around in my brain and I come back to re-read all the great replies.

  257. 257.

    Central Planning

    @WaterGirl: How about bring your clients over and say you want the $50k? That sounds like win-win, and you get to keep your existing clients if things don’t work out. Of course, if you only like working 20 hours/week, this is probably not what you want to do.

  261. 261.

    CaseyL

    @tamiasmin:

    ”pro-Russia right-wing extremists”
    We’ve come a long way.

    Maybe not. RWers are authoritarian. The USSR only bothered them because it was (nominally) communist. Godless and commie. The post-Soviet Russia, being run by a strongman who is also allied with the Russian Orthodox Church, is A-OK with the Right in this country. (Exhibit 1: Rod Dreher, who has praised Russia for making “blasphemy” an offense with a serious prison penalty.)

  265. 265.

    Chris T.

    @Ruckus: Dec-Feb is the dry season for NZ (dry is relative of course). Prices drop a bit after Waitangi Day but that’s Feb 6th this upcoming year. NZ is beautiful any time, in my opinion, but if you want to visit Fiordlands, go for the dry season. (The same rule applies to western Tasmania, including Cradle Mountain.)

  267. 267.

    SFAW

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    The inner Chicagoan always comes out.

    Is that the community-organizin’, Kenya-born, inner Chicagoan? Or the DNC riots, Mike Royko hatin’ inner Chicagoan? (Disclaimer: I have no idea if Daley the Elder hated Royko.)

  268. 268.

    schrodinger's cat

    @NotMax: Yes Arris is among those listed, I had never heard of Arris before so that’s why I didn’t go for it. Since you recommend it, I will go take another look at that list. Thank You for your input.

  270. 270.

    Chris

    @patroclus:

    In some areas, they are actually our strategic partners; in others, our adversaries, but not our mortal enemy as in the Cold War era.

    I don’t know how much I want to disagree with this, but… for all the heated rhetoric of the Cold War, the Soviets were a pretty cautious and conservative player, certainly after 1963. Yes, they played geopolitical chess with us all over the third world, and yes, they would’ve been happy to see the U.S. fall apart and leave the world in their hands, but they were also acutely aware of the danger involved in crossing certain lines. The idea of either superpower trying to meddle this brazenly in the upper internal politics of the other one – much less to benefit someone as dangerously unstable as Donald Trump – would have been unthinkable during the Cold War. It says something about today’s Kremlin that they’re willing to do it.

  275. 275.

    NotMax

    @ Mnemosyne

    Know it has scads of devoted fans, but so far as The Haunting goes, what seems like most of an hour and a three-quarters given over to Julie Harris talking to herself exceeds both patience and endurance.

  278. 278.

    JR in WV

    @piratedan:

    Come mid January into March. Want to be home for spring, miss the gloom of winter cloudy days. The camp is east of Tombstone and just south of the Dragoon Mountains in the foothills, at 5500 feet. So it does get cold at night.

    But the house is R38 walls and R42 roof, so a tiny wood stove keeps it toasty. And the view of the valley (at 4100 feet) goes on for 40 miles. Structural Insulated Panels, stucco exterior with metal roof and fascia. We get to see the A-10 warthogs rush by below us on training runs. Mountain Lions too… we miss the snakes, they’re usually still hibernating when we pull out for the Green Hills of WV.

    I will mention it on here when we get out west.

  279. 279.

    Sm*t Cl*de

    @JR in WV:

    Russia and the former Soviet Union never had that kind of peaceful turn over of power.

    “Never” is a strong word. Go back to the Republic of Novgorod, and the other city-states comprising Kievan Rus’ (12th to 15th century), when ‘Prince’ was an elected / invited position.

  280. 280.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Chris: The issue is that Putin is absolutely convinced that the US has been doing this – messing with Russia’s politics and economy – since the end of the Soviet Union. And that we’re the driving force behind all the color revolutions and that the move to expand both the EU and NATO is part of this attempt to destabilize and destroy Russia and to prevent it from fulfilling its historic role as a great power, specifically one that dominates Eastern Europe and Central Asia.

  282. 282.

    Mnemosyne

    @NotMax:

    Says you, buster. But, then, I think you and I have pretty divergent taste in movies anyway.

    The one time I watched The Haunting with other people and it did not scare them was when we had to keep the volume of the TV very low because my friend’s roommate was sleeping. Sound is very, very important to that film.

  284. 284.

    Steeplejack

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Believe me, I know. The biggest problem I always had when I was doing solo consulting was finding clients. I remember one time I did some work for a psychologist in Atlanta and, at her suggestion, sent a lovingly personalized letter and brochure to everyone (local) in her association. (She had the membership directory.) Might have been 100-150 people. I got one response: “Take me off your mailing list!”

  287. 287.

    piratedan

    @JR in WV: sounds good JR, I have a couple of acres out on the west side of Tucson pretty close to the Tucson Mountain Park and Saguaro National Monument West area, so I’m about 30 minutes from the Desert Museum from where I am at. I’m far enough up in the foothills, so I have a decent view of the entire Tucson valley from the backyard. My Dad’s side of the family hailed from SW West By God (Wyoming County) so its always fun to swap stories.

  288. 288.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Adam L Silverman: It is the Russian version of the belief that many Americans have that the world revolves around them. That other states do not exist except in reference to one’s own.

  294. 294.

    Chris

    @Adam L Silverman:

    From that point of view it makes some sense, then. But meddling in the affairs of smaller nations and trying to turn them to your side was always seen as different from meddling with each other, no matter how close to you the smaller nations were. Nobody in the U.S. was happy when the Russians expanded their sphere of influence to Cuba and Nicaragua right on our doorstep, and supported Marxist insurgencies in every country in the region, but nobody would’ve considered it enough of a reason to start playing with fire by meddling in Politburo politics. If Putin thinks it is, that’s still a pretty major change.

  302. 302.

    hovercraft

    @debbie:

    Veto power[edit]
    Main article: United Nations Security Council veto power
    The “power of veto” refers to the veto power wielded solely by the permanent members, enabling them to prevent the adoption of any “substantive” draft Council resolution, regardless of the level of international support for the draft. The veto does not apply to procedural votes, which is significant in that the Security Council’s permanent membership can vote against a “procedural” draft resolution, without necessarily blocking its adoption by the Council.

    The veto is exercised when any permanent member—the so-called “P5″—casts a “negative” vote on a “substantive” draft resolution. Abstention or absence from the vote by a permanent member does not prevent a draft resolution from being adopted

    ETA: The P5 nations are often beyond shaming when it comes to their deeply held beliefs or national interests. Us with Israel, China with Tibet, Russia with Georgia and Ukraine and Syria

  303. 303.

    Mnemosyne

    @Timurid:

    Doesn’t matter. Even a simple clerical error requires a report to the federal government and usually one to the state and/or local government as well. G used to work for a healthcare company and an accidental PHI (personal health information) disclosure meant he was required by law to fill out a full report. An accidental PHI disclosure could mean something as simple as delivering a package to the wrong address, but it didn’t matter — it had to be reported to all of the legally required agencies.

  304. 304.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Adam L Silverman: The first also requires a willingness to visit the Royal Palace at Sinaia. In fairness to my ex, she was almost Jacobin in her objections to Romania giving State properties back to the former Royal family.

  305. 305.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Omnes Omnibus: Not surprising given the history. Did you see this?
    http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a49941/clinton-new-hampshire-rally/

    Today I Met a Man Who Knows What Freedom Is
    And listened to what three Democratic women had to say about a sexist demagogue.

    MANCHESTER, NEW HAMPSHIRE—On a gemlike autumn afternoon, Julius Lakatos leaned on his cane at the edge of the crowd waiting for the Hillary Rodham Clinton road show to come up the hill between the blazing, vivid trees that ring the quadrangle of St. Anselm’s College. Julius came to the United States in 1990 from Romania for a job as an ironworker. “I was with both of them in the primary,” he said. “I like both of them, but I am now Hillary. It is good that they work together.

    “I was also 30 years living in Communism, and I know that Trump would be a big danger for this country.”

    There has been a lot of talk about the authoritarian poison that the Republican nominee for president has injected into our politics this year, and damned few ideas about how it might be flushed out beyond making sure that a vulgar talking yam is not elected president, which seems a rather low bar for an advanced democracy, but there you are. Julius’ fears are not imaginary. They are not extrapolations from the garishly undemocratic rhetoric in which the Republican nominee for president trafficks. They are not simply the other side of the argument. Julius Lakatos has seen the genuine article, and he has fought against the genuine article, so when he says he sees a dictator in Trump, his words carry far more weight than do the speculations of 1,000 pundits.

    In 1989, what was then called the Soviet bloc in eastern Europe was falling apart largely because its great patron to the east was falling apart at an even faster clip. Poland had Solidarity and Czechoslovakia had its Velvet Revolution. Walesa and Havel were burrowing at the foundations of implacable and faceless tyranny. Even East Germany, the most implacable and faceless of them all, was starting to come apart. But those were largely peaceful revolutions. In Romania, it was a different story.

    Among the ethnic Hungarians in Timosoara, the revolutionary spirit of the times broke out against the regime of the truly monstrous Nicolae Ceaucescu and his dreaded secret police, the Securitate. In the middle of December, Timasoara exploded and then so did the rest of the country. The military changed sides. Ceaucescu and his wife tried to flee, but they were captured. On Christmas Day, they were executed on orders of a military tribunal working on behalf of the new democratic government, which then immediately abolished the death penalty.

    Julius Lakatos was in the streets during that remarkable December. “In Transylvania, where I was,” he said. “We knew what had been done by the system to human rights, to freedom. We organized to get rid of the dictator. The only way to do it was to start revolution. We had to fight him and then we had to find him. He was in Bucharest, in a tank. That’s where we had to find him.

    “I was young and never afraid to fight for my rights, and for my freedom.”

    RELATED STORY

    Trump Is No Accident, Paul Ryan Is No Solution

  307. 307.

    Adam L Silverman

    @debbie: Without disbanding the UN and starting all over again, which itself would be virtually impossible, it won’t happen. Largely because it can’t happen. Part of that is on the Security Council, but a lot is on the (no longer so) secret caveats that the US forced on the Secretariat during the McCarthy era that were then matched by (no longer so) secret caveats that the USSR forced on the Secretariat when they found out about the US ones.

  308. 308.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Adam L Silverman: My ex was someone who was very privileged in Communist Romania. She had an uncle in the security services and her dad was the manager of a wine producing collective. Her family was a part of the Communist elite. Her rug got pulled out in 1989 when she was 9. Dad was really a wine guy and transitioned decently – without become an oligarch. He continued to make wine. I liked him.

  309. 309.

    Mnemosyne

    @Adam L Silverman:

    G used to work with someone who defected from (the now former) Yugoslavia. She worked in a very top-secret, vitally important factory building vacuum tubes. In the 1980s.

    The US officials she defected to were like, Well, okay, we’re glad to have you and you’re welcome to stay, but we have these things called transistors now …

  310. 310.

    NotMax

    @Adam L. Silverman

    Yup. Is the structure creaky? Yes.

    Is its process convoluted? Yes.

    Often inefficient or prone to foot dragging? Yes.

    Rife with petty gamesmanship? Yes.

    But nevertheless a case of “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.”

  312. 312.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Omnes Omnibus: Not surprising. I remember seeing an interesting documentary on the fall of East German government. They interviewed a(n East) German political science professor. His remarks basically boiled down to: the biggest problem was that no one gave us a controlling ideology to replace what went away with Soviet Communism. I would imagine that for your ex a great deal of the shock was the mental shock given that her family seems to have landed well – so to speak.

  315. 315.

    NotMax

    @Adam L Silverman

    Had a relative by way of (someone else’s) marriage who worked in the Secretariat at the no-proliferation section of the U.S. delegation during the late 40s, the 50s and early 60s, so have heard many a tale.

    Including supposedly informed suppositions about the death of Hammarskjöld.

  319. 319.

    bemused senior

    @WaterGirl: tell him honestly that your current clientele allows you to make his salary working 20 hours per week. Offer to work for him half time at his salary. If he accepts you can keep your clients and pay your debt with the excess income. You can decide whether you prefer the office job or consulting through experience.

  320. 320.

    NotMax

    @Adam L. Silverman

    2k clams for the paperback at Amazon?

    From the review at Foreign Affairs:

    Novelist Shirley Hazzard worked at the U.N. for ten years. Unfortunately, the book is a diatribe so shrill that it loses credibility even if many of its observations may be fundamentally correct. If even half of what she says about the lack of integrity within the organization is valid, the rot within its upper echelons is deep and pervasive. Hazzard is especially critical of Waldheim, seeing him as “uninspired, officious and essentially trivial.” Perhaps that is right, but in this book Dag Hammarskjold comes out only a little better.

  322. 322.

    Adam L Silverman

    @NotMax: There’s a kindle version for 99 cents.

    I read the book when it first came out – she basically wrote it as an organizational history to show how Waldheim could become Secretary General. I didn’t find it to be a screed and I found the first section on the history of the UN’s founding, its organizational structure, and its organizational development to be exceedingly interesting, as well as useful for understanding the UN.

  323. 323.

    NotMax

    @Adam L. Silverman

    Optimistic that so much of the U.N. early operations ended up based in Lake Success.

    Telling that the facilities were on the campus of a Rand Corp. technology park (which is still there).

  326. 326.

    debbie

    @Adam L Silverman:

    While you are long gone, I will still say this: While they are only symbolic, resolutions against Israel have had an effect. If nothing else, it shows how much of the world doesn’t support Bibi’s agenda.

  327. 327.

    Another Scott

    @WaterGirl: Late to the party, and I’m no expert on this stuff, and someone may have already mentioned it but:

    1) He approached you out of the blue. He wants you. You have leverage.

    2) Don’t let the desire to be debt free cause you to make a bad choice. Debt isn’t bad as long as you can budget for it. It can be bad not to have any debt (e.g. some argue that you should always have a mortgage because it’s hard to get money out of a home if you need it quickly). Having readily accessible savings can be more important than low debt. Of course, the peace of mind not having a loan payment can be worth a lot, but don’t make it some holy grail if it causes other problems.

    3) Maybe tell him your current rate and how you like the freedom of being your own boss, and how you will still have your consulting business. He needs to make it worth your while. Even if he then doesn’t want to hire you full time, he might want you later as a consultant. (There may be downsides to this approach – I dunno.)

    HTH a little. Good luck!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  328. 328.

    Procopius

    I’m posting this before kreading all the other comments, so maybe other commenters have noticed the same thing I did. Zhirinosky’s statement can really be interpreted two ways. The way the favors Hillary, if you’re already committed to her side, is that he’s threatening us with nuclear war if we don’t elect Putin’s boy. The way I prefer to read it, because of other things I’ve been reading and observing for several years now, is that he’s saying the Russians have lots of information that Hillary has already promised Bibi and Salman and Erdogan that she will force regime change in Russia. This will encounter resistance. She is known to turn quickly to war when she meets obstruction. Therefore, if we vote for Hillary we are choosing the candidate who is most clearly dedicated to provoking war with Russia. He was tactful and did not mention that they have nuclear weapons, too, and enough of the infrastructure from the Cold War that they can get some shots off after our attempt at a first strike. So read it whichever way gives you warm fuzzies, but Hillary scares the heck out of me, and I already mailed in my ballot voting for her. Luckily I’m old and have had a good full live already.

  329. 329.

    Lurker Extraordinaire

    @hovercraft: The base of the Democratic Party is black women. The whole BernieBro/Purity Pony movement is based on racism and misogyny and nothing else. As Propane Jane says #ExpectUs*.

    *Us being women and POCs and our allies. a.k.a. The Obama Coalition.

  330. 330.

    Procopius

    @AnotherBruce:

    …because why make this simpleton jerk a martyr?

    That’s kind of a good question. I think they do it because they think it will bring the the admiration and affection of people they see as authority figures. Assistant United States Attorney Stephen Heymann has driven at least two young hackers to suicide because of his immovable demands for prison time (Aaron Swartz and Jonathon James). I cannot for the life of me understand how people like that or Ted Cruz think. And there are lots of people like that.

  331. 331.

    Lurker Extraordinaire

    @scav: Strahler number can be used for a lot of things. For rivers it’s usually for the “size” of the river.

Comments are closed.