Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

🎶 Those boots were made for mockin’ 🎵

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

The revolution will be supervised.

A lot of Dems talk about what the media tells them to talk about. Not helpful.

In my day, never was longer.

Consistently wrong since 2002

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

Nancy smash is sick of your bullshit.

You don’t get rid of your umbrella while it’s still raining.

A last alliance of elves and men. also pet photos.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

Conservatism: there are some people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

Russian mouthpiece, go fuck yourself.

Spilling the end game before they can coat it in frankl luntz-approved dogwhistles.

The willow is too close to the house.

Take your GOP plan out of the witness protection program.

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

Our job is not to persuade republicans but to defeat them.

Despite his magical powers, I don’t think Trump is thinking this through, to be honest.

Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.

Yeah, with this crowd one never knows.

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

Meanwhile over at truth Social, the former president is busy confessing to crimes.

You are here: Home / Past Elections / Election 2016 / Open Thread: Affirmatively Pro-HRC

Open Thread: Affirmatively Pro-HRC

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Yeah, just because Hillary voters weren’t seeking out chances to yell LOCK HIM UP on camera, doesn’t mean they didn’t exist. From Politico, ten days ago, “Revenge of the White Working-Class Woman“:

… The first polls to emerge since the release of the “Access Hollwood” videotape now show a historic gender gap splitting what might be the GOP’s most important constituency. The fracture was already apparent back in August, when a four-way poll showed Trump’s lead over Clinton among white men without a college degree was 40 percent, but only 12 percent among women without a college degree. This week, after the 2005 videotape was released, that number stayed roughly the same for blue-collar men—Trump is still up in that group by 43 percentage points—but it tanked for women, to a low that hasn’t been seen since the 1960s, with the exception of Bill Clinton in 1996. According to the first post-videotape poll, among white women without a college degree, Hillary Clinton had pulled even.

It might be easy to write off blue-collar women as a special interest group, like the 18-25 demographic of some slice of suburbia. But the situation is almost exactly the opposite: If you look at the white working class—Americans without a college degree—the majority, 53 percent, are women. Right now, the numbers suggest that within that group, women’s interests appear to be diverging so quickly from their male counterparts they could stop whatever momentum Trump has left. “The rationale for [Trump’s] candidacy is that he is the champion of the hardworking Americans that the elitists have left behind. But many of those hardworking Americans are women,” says John J. Pitney Jr., an American politics professor at Claremont McKenna College…

Reader Interactions

159Comments

  2. 2.

    Omnes Omnibus

    FWIW, I have been for HRC throughout this election. I have not seen her as a lesser evil. She is, IMO, the most qualified person to run this year. She is an ideal candidate to follow Obama and expand upon and/or defend his accomplishments.

  3. 3.

    Spider-Dan

    I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the majority of people I see pushing the “two horrible candidates” angle are people who would normally:

    a) not vote at all
    b) vote Republican
    c) vote for a third-party

    Seems to me that people who do not already reject the Democratic Party are just fine with Hillary.

  5. 5.

    Luthe

    But only white working-class undecided male voters matter! The media told me so!

    Rigged, it’s all rigged!

  6. 6.

    Major Major Major Major

    This article does that old trick:

    It might be easy to write off blue-collar women as a special interest group, like the 18-25 demographic of some slice of suburbia. But the situation is almost exactly the opposite: If you look at the white working class—Americans without a college degree—the majority, 53 percent, are women.

  7. 7.

    Brachiator

    If you look at the white working class—Americans without a college degree—the majority, 53 percent, are women. Right now, the numbers suggest that within that group, women’s interests appear to be diverging so quickly from their male counterparts they could stop whatever momentum Trump has left. “

    Tremendous goddam point. These women were practically invisible in most reporting about this election. Here is a group that is probably double hit by a bad economy. Low wages exacerbated by wage discrimination.

  8. 8.

    CaseyL

    Great news – but I hope they all vote D on the downballot races, too. Give Hillary a Congress she can work with.

  9. 9.

    peach flavored shampoo

    I saw the debates, and since I dont watch his rallies, I had no idea just what an enormous asshole shitbag he was. The gesticulating and yelling lies and standing astride her really made me see how bad a person he was. I couldnt have been the only person likewise stunned.

    So yeah, the debates killed him.

  10. 10.

    Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)

    I helped our four year old dump her turd from her little potty into the toilet earlier tonight. And as I watched it spin around the bowl, on its way down into the dark places that turds go to to die, I couldn’t help feeling like there was a metaphor there, somehow. If only I could put my finger on what it was a metaphor for. I feel like the answer is right before me, but I can’t quite make it out, a baby-handed, petulant answer. A presidential campaign, maybe, one of such shocking incompetence and vileness that we are, God willing, unlikely to ever see its like again. We can only hope…

  12. 12.

    JGabriel

    Dana Houle via Anne Laurie @ Top:

    Debates killed Trump. But Hillary’s performances were so masterful it’s possible some of her reluctant voters became passionate supporters

    I suspect most people here at Balloon Juice have been affirmatively for Clinton all along. I was a Sanders supporter during the primary, but I was never against Clinton per se – I like them both, just liked Bernie a little better at the time – and I’ve been affirmatively for Clinton since the primaries ended in June.

    This is all just prelude to me saying that I always suspected most Democrats who were initially reluctant about Hillary would eventually come to support Clinton for herself because she was the best, most qualified candidate in the country, and not just to oppose Trump. The truth is, I’m more surprised that it took this long to get there, than I am that it’s happening now.

  14. 14.

    Brachiator

    @Spider-Dan:

    Seems to me that people who do not already reject the Democratic Party are just fine with Hillary.

    The Bernie phenomenon revealed a growing dissatisfaction with both political parties that needs to be addressed, especially if you want to keep younger voters who have not developed a habit of voting for Democrats.

    Love for Obama or Clinton should not be mistaken for a warm endorsement of the Democratic Party.

  16. 16.

    Eric U.

    I think a lot of Dems were unhappy with her campaign in 2008, specifically how bad Mark Penn was. So this campaign has been a really great surprise.

  18. 18.

    amk

    The democratic numbers have been there all along. It’s just that the stupid msm is realizing it only now as usual since all of ’em katie were only focused only on the fucking wwm, that rarest of rare, gentle breed with 24×7 feefees.

  19. 19.

    hellslittlestangel

    I’ve been enthusiastic about voting for Clinton in 2016 since Obama won the primary in 2008.

    As for Little Gloves’ supporters: they’re not enthusiastic, they’re just bitterly angry, and they’re like that all the fucking time.

  20. 20.

    TK_1

    Speaking for myself I think the Debate performances were huge. I like Hillary before but I was really pretty blown away by how masterfully she took him on and took him down. It was like a predator just toying with its prey. It definitely boosted my enthusiasm. Someone who can plan and pull off something like that is exactly what we need in the Executive branch.

  21. 21.

    Mnemosyne

    @TK_1:

    I think the debate performances by both candidates were hugely influential. It allowed voters to get an unfiltered look at both candidates that they wouldn’t otherwise have been able to get. I think people who were working off a 25-year-old caricature of Hillary were pleasantly surprised to see how different she was from that caricature.

  24. 24.

    amk

    Bradd Jaffy Verified account @BraddJaffy

    On Wednesday — just 13 days till the election — Trump is leaving the campaign trail to promote the grand opening of his Washington, DC hotel

    Note the you fucking plebes are not invited at the bottom.

    Wonder how many media morons would still turn up even at this stage.

  25. 25.

    Old Dan and Little Anne

    I wish I could I could rig my house to fuel it with wing nut tears for the next 8 years. I’ve already told several friends that it must suck knowing they they will have spent 16 years as a raging asshole lunatic thanks to the person residing in the White House. They’d be happier dead. Fuckem.

  27. 27.

    Mary G

    The Daily Beast has another story up about Trump’s past that will make you want to take a shower after you read it:

    Inside Donald Trump’s One-Stop Parties: Attendees Recall Cocaine and Very Young Models
    ‘I was there to party myself. It was guys with younger girls, sex, a lot of sex, a lot of cocaine, top-shelf liquor’ but no smoking. Trump didn’t approve of cigarettes.

    Girls as young as 14 recruited to party then asked for sex. Yuck.

  28. 28.

    piratedan

    @Mnemosyne: agreed, they media painted her as this ambitious power hungry harridan and she came off as a sharp, determined grandma. Trump came off as Trump. No Fucking Contest.

  29. 29.

    West of the Rockies (been a while)

    @Mnemosyne:

    Was The Haunting the one with the old lady saying, “You’ll be all alone. In the night… In the dark.”?

  30. 30.

    JGabriel

    Brachiator:

    The Bernie phenomenon revealed a growing dissatisfaction with both political parties that needs to be addressed …

    As someone who voted for Bernie, I disagree. I think the so-called Bernie-Bros phenomenon was no different than the so-called PUMA phenomenon in that most of Bernie’s supporters were happy to line up behind Hillary after the convention, just as most of Hillary’s supporters lined up to support Obama in 2008.

    The Bernie-Bros, like the PUMA’s, are – while not the same voters – still the same rump of disaffected primary voters left in the wake of every primary. I don’t think they merit any more attention than the PUMA’s did, I think they just get more attention because they’re white boys instead of women.

    There is an economically disaffected portion of the electorate whose dissatisfaction needs addressing, but I think they’re spread pretty evenly across Sanders’, Clinton’s, and even Trump’s suppporters.

  31. 31.

    andy

    Speaking of dicks:

    “If Trump gets elected, and he does anything that looks even slightly Hitler-ish in office, I will join the resistance movement and help kill him.”

    I guess Scott Adams isn’t so thrilled with Trump anymore.

  34. 34.

    dogwood

    I don’t know how to post links from my tablet. But if you haven’t seen the ad “Please,Re-Elect Gerald”, go to YouTube and watch it. The candidate is a Texan Republican with terrible policies, but the ad is hilarious. Very well-crafted, and his wife is the real star of the thing.

  35. 35.

    JGabriel

    @hellslittlestangel:

    As for Little Gloves’ supporters: they’re not enthusiastic, they’re just bitterly angry, and they’re like that all the fucking time.

    I think you may be onto something there.

  36. 36.

    Mnemosyne

    @West of the Rockies (been a while):

    That’s the one. Though if you watch it again, you’ll be surprised to see that the “old lady” is actually a middle-aged woman — in her late 40s, at most.

    “No one lives any closer than town. No one will live any closer than that. So no one will hear you if you call out. In the night. In the dark.”

  38. 38.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Mary G: I like the sponsored content that immediately followed the article:

    SPONSORED EDITORIAL: MODERN ETIQUETTE
    Event Planners Share The Keys To A Great Dinner Party
    Experts in the field of event planning share the tips and tricks to turn average dinner parties into memorable events.

    Well played Daily Beast Internet Advertising Department, well played indeed!

  39. 39.

    Mary G

    @Adam L Silverman: I was surprised he got a source to go on record and be named. Trump will be suing him, I’m sure. I don’t think the guy thought it was all that bad.

    But did he have sex with his female party guests? “So, he’s a man with a woman,” Lucchesi says vaguely. How old were they? “A lot of girls, 14, look 24. That’s as juicy as I can get. I never asked how old they were; I just partook. I did partake in activities that would be controversial, too.”

  40. 40.

    Mary G

    @Adam L Silverman: Yeah, I started reading it and saw the “Whatever you do, don’t use paper napkins. “I love a crisp pressed linen napkin,” says Blitz.” and said WTF. Then I looked back at the top and saw the sponsored part.

  41. 41.

    NoraLenderbee

    I’ve always supported HRC, but the side of herself that she’s shown in this campaign takes my breath away. She is equal to *any* challenge she will face. And her humanity and concern blow me away. I’m ferklempt.

    Voting for her, and voting to kill the death penalty in CA, are two things I’m really proud to do.

  42. 42.

    JGabriel

    @andy:

    I guess Scott Adams isn’t so thrilled with Trump anymore.

    Now that Trump is clearly losing, the entire GOP, Right-Wing, and Conservative spectrum is (or will soon be) entering Conservatism Can Never Fail It Can Only Be Failed mode: None of them ever voted for Trump, he’s a loser, a liberal, he was never Conservative, and we have always been at war with East Asia.

  45. 45.

    Mary G

    I was also for Hillary in a Yeah, I guess so way, when the primary started. The more I’ve seen of her and read about her and admired much of what her campaign has done, the more enthused I am. She will be another great president.

  50. 50.

    West of the Rockies (been a while)

    Has Coulter been quiet for the last few weeks? Haven’t heard her spouting her foolishness lately. Now, if only Scott Adams would encounter a crazed batch of honey badgers under his desk.

  52. 52.

    Juju with the nasty feet

    I took my nasty feet and early voted today around 5:30 pm. I got a bit choked up, as did my 83 year old mother who also voted today. We both voted Hill yes!!, and democratic down the line. I’m in eastern NC, so I don’t know, but it did seem busy, and promising. I saw a lot of people with the vote blue hand bills. I’d like to see Burr and his Sheep eating grin go down, as well as the feckless McCrory.

  57. 57.

    philadelphialawyer

    @Brachiator:

    “Love for Obama or Clinton should not be mistaken for a warm endorsement of the Democratic Party.”

    Right, it would definitely be a “mistake” to see love for the Democratic party candidates over the last three national elections as an endorsement of the Democratic party. How could anyone possibly think that?

    WTF?

  62. 62.

    JGabriel

    @Juju:

    Apparently the term “nasty feet”, will put one in moderation. Who knew?

    There used to be a time when the word shoes would bounce comments into the spam filter. I don’t think anyone ever figured out why.

    Also socialist and socialism, which was kind of a problem on a political blog – though a bit more understandable given what the middle six letters spell out.

  65. 65.

    BR

    I’m still hoping there’s a last bit of oppo to drop — I’ve noticed that the swing state polls have given up a1-2 points in the last week vs. their high points of right before the debate. It’d be great to have GOPers fleeing from Trump with two weeks left to go, whereas right now they think they can just hold tight until election day.

  68. 68.

    Mary G

    <

    The video Trump doesn't want you to see:"The [Clintons] are fine people, other people don't like them because they're jealous." pic.twitter.com/Cjaomwy4Dx— Parker ?️‍? (@Parker9_) 23 October 2016

    >Tape Trump doesn’t want you to see – praising Hill & Bill in 2008.

    ETA: That none of the 16 others on the “deep bench” could unearth this is astounding even for the derps that call themselves Republicans these days.

  69. 69.

    Lyrebird

    @efgoldman: It was a pleasant… no, wonderful surprise for me, too, as someone who was underwhelmed with her performance as my Senator.

    I’ve always had respect for her ability to stay human and keep trying to make a difference after the crap she was put through, even just when her hubby was running for Prez. Dye your hair, smile more, do this, do that.

    I was skeptical of her Senate run but voted for her over the R alternative, and she went off to do a not-great job of office management and to cosponsor that stupid flag burning amendment. She voted for the Iraq War. So I really respect Omnes, too, naughty costume remarks notwithstanding, but for me her Senate record and her 2008 run brought my view of HRC down.

    No way did I watch those debates – thank heaven y’all watch them for me! Creepy creep creeping around the stage spewing lies – Yecch. No, it was HRC’s above and beyond work at State, both her rising above a contested primary to serve in Obama’s administration and her doing a dem fine job of it, that got me more interested.

    I considered voting Bernie but couldn’t take how he kept resisting olive branches from some African-American voter groups, and I felt great about voting for HRC in the primary. And I can’t wait to cast my vote for her to be President!

  70. 70.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    She has shown that she learns from her mistakes.

    I can think of few attributes I’d rather have in a President. We were lucky with Obama, and deo volente we are going to be equally fortunate with HRC.

  71. 71.

    Another Scott

    @Mnemosyne: Speaking of the debate performances and people’s pre-conceived notions, I often find Sankar Vedantem’s “Hidden Brain” reports on the big NPR shows to be a bit “too cute”, but I thought his recent report on Hillary’s and Donnie’s campaign language to be interesting:

    VEDANTAM: Tom Barnes and Kate Burkett are thoughtful and fair-minded and have clear reasons to think the way they do. But when you put millions of Toms and millions of Kate’s together, you don’t get reasonable disagreement. You get Democrats and Republicans who can’t comprehend each other’s points of view.

    Social scientists are looking at what produces these intense disagreements. At the University of California at Berkeley, George Lakoff noticed what he thought could be a clue. It had to do with the way many politicians speak about the country.

    GEORGE LAKOFF: We have a metaphor that the nation is a family. We have Founding Fathers. We send our sons and daughters to war. We have homeland security. We don’t want missiles in our backyard and so on and so on.

    VEDANTAM: Lakoff was drawn to the family metaphor because he’s a cognitive linguist. Over decades of research, he’s found that metaphors are not just figures of speech. They are ways to organize how we see the world. Could it be, he wondered, that this metaphor plays an organizing principle in the way voters think about politics? Could it help explain the deep divisions in the country?

    LAKOFF: If you have two different views of the nation, you may have two different views of the family, so I worked backwards. I took the two different views of the nation, worked backwards through the metaphor and out popped two different views of the family.

    VEDANTAM: Lakoff’s theory goes something like this. The earliest experience most of us have with authority is inside the family. If people grow up thinking of parents as governing bodies, could it be, later in their lives as adults, they see governing bodies playing the role of parents? If so, could unconscious models of parental behavior shape how we think about government? One of those models is what Lakoff calls the strict father family.

    LAKOFF: In the strict-father family, the father knows best, the father knows right from wrong. And the job of the father is not just to support and protect the family but also, with respect to children, is to teach them right from wrong so that they have the right moral views.

    VEDANTAM: There is another model of how to be a good parent. Lakoff calls the style nurturant. Marti Gonzales is a psychologist at the University of Minnesota. She’s done follow-up research on Lakoff’s work. She says the goal of the nurturant parent…

    It’s still a bit on the “too cute” side of the border, but it’s something worth thinking about. There’s no doubt that our thinking is shaped by, and shapes, the words we hear and use. Obama tried to get the GOP to get out of their bubble and talk with and listen to him, but they were too stuck on their self-programmed picture of him and the world. The implosion of the GOP, the shrinking of the world, Murdoch being slapped down in the UK and his kids caring more about making money than ideological battles, etc., etc., might mean that there’s a chance for us all to listen more to each other and to recognize that a world full of strong daddies doesn’t work as well as one with both strong daddies and strong mommies.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  72. 72.

    Adam L Silverman

    @BR: Look at the internals and crosstabs from the ABC poll that came out yesterday. Its brutal. If that data is borne out by other polls over the rest of the week and into next, things are going to be very, very ugly on election day – including down ballot.

  74. 74.

    amk

    CBSDFW @CBSDFW

    #EarlyVoting in Dallas County:
    Today: 58,329 and counting
    First day in 2012: 32,512
    First day in 2008: 34,415

    6:26 AM – 25 Oct 2016

  75. 75.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @NotMax: If you choose not to pay attention to people who are significant in the coverage of this election, you may not know who is significant in reporting this election.

  77. 77.

    BR

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Yes agreed, but it hasn’t been confirmed from what I’ve seen in recent national polls. (At least not that level of blowout.) And contemporaneous state polls haven’t shown it either.

  78. 78.

    amk

    rasmussen today – donnie dick +2.

    LOL. wonder when he will start doing his famed ‘pivot’. I bet on Nov 7th.

  79. 79.

    JGabriel

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Look at the internals and crosstabs from the ABC poll that came out yesterday. Its brutal. If that data is borne out by other polls over the rest of the week and into next, things are going to be very, very ugly on election day – including down ballot.

    You say ugly, I say beautiful …

  81. 81.

    Spider-Dan

    @Brachiator: That would be a stronger argument if I could get the “two horrible candidates” crowd to answer the following question:

    In what ways are Hillary’s policies better or worse than Obama’s?

    I strongly doubt that if Obama could run for a third term, we’d be talking about how terrible Obama and Trump are. Like her or hate her, Hillary is a pretty standard center-left mainstream Democrat.

    If they’re going to retort with some Benghazi e-mail Foundation silliness, they are looking for a reason to reject her. Once Colin Powell’s e-mail practices became public, this officially entered the Reverend Wright palling around with Bill Ayers zone.

    P.S. Let the record show that if Bernie had won the primary, the talk now would not be “two horrible candidates” but rather “both parties have become extreme.” In turn, you would have the media going HARD after 1960-1990 Bernie statements (e.g. phone and utility companies should be nationalized).

  84. 84.

    Anoniminous

    @Mnemosyne:

    I’m wondering if someone on Clinton’s team looked at the positive reception of President ‘DGAF’ Obama and decided to take a lesson. The 2008 Hillary would never have let something like that out on her official website.

  86. 86.

    VOR

    @JGabriel: On that note, I think George W. Bush has gone down the memory hole. My son happened across a Trump rally where the speakers were claiming Obama has been President for 16 years. The Daily Show went to a Trump rally where an attendee thought it was suspicious that Obama wasn’t in the White House on 9/11.

  87. 87.

    Eugene in Eugene

    @Adam L Silverman: Well, Berlusconi’s “Bunga Bunga” parties were known for having impeccable industrial design — apparently he used many of the same people who worked for Olivetti in the ’70’s.

  88. 88.

    Brachiator

    @JGabriel:

    The Bernie-Bros, like the PUMA’s, are – while not the same voters – still the same rump of disaffected primary voters left in the wake of every primary. I don’t think they merit any more attention than the PUMA’s did, I think they just get more attention because they’re white boys instead of women.

    Here in California, the most enthusiastic Bernie supporters I saw included plenty of women and plenty of Latinos. And again, these people were fired up by Bernie and what he represented to them. So, they are not simplistically personally loyal to Sanders. And again, a good chunk of these people are new voters. Some of them are students who have yet to enter the job market, so while they may be sympathetic to the union movement, they are not union members.

    Also, in California, where the Democrats are pretty much assured of coming out for Hillary, this skeptical group of voters can afford to look around and ask what the Democrats can really do for them.

  91. 91.

    Lizzy L

    Since this is an open thread, I’m going to rant a little about my weekend travels.

    I flew to Michigan Thursday — at least, I was supposed to fly first to Chicago, and then to Grand Rapids, Michigan on Thursday. My flight from SFO on United Airlines was supposed to take off around 10:30 am. They didn’t have an airplane. They sent a lot of us (how many people can fit in a 777?) running from old gate to new gate to Customer Service and back to the old gate in SFO for six fucking hours. They finally got us a plane to Chicago at 4:30 pm. I missed my connection, of course. United paid for the hotel in Chicago, and gave me some vouchers for crappy airport food. I flew from ORD to Grand Rapids the next day. Luckily the event I was attending didn’t actually start until Friday evening, and so, I was on time, though tired and a bit cranky. Today, I flew home. The flight from Grand Rapids to Denver was uneventful, but the Denver flight to SFO was delayed — oh no, it isn’t — oh yes, it is — as United Airlines dicked around. They kept texting us different fight times. We finally ended up departing about an hour after we had been scheduled, which is not too bad, but, as it happened, our luggage — for some of us — had not been put on the plane we eventually flew on, and so, we arrived in SFO, and our bags remained in Denver, since the flight they had been placed on was also delayed. My bag is even as I type on a truck which should arrive at my house tonight, between 10 and 11 pm. United Airlines, WTF??!!//rant

    Now to the subject of the thread: I started out being unenthusiastic about our candidate. I never wavered in my support for her, but it was a kind of bloodless support. I started out anti-Trump, rather than pro-Hillary. But as I’ve watched her throughout this campaign, my appreciation for who she has been, who she is now, and what she can do has deepened. I don’t know if she’ll be a great President, but she could be. (And BTW, it breaks my heart when I think of what Barack Obama could have accomplished if he had had a willing and active Congress, instead of the cluster of douchebags and knuckleheads that he got.) I want her to be. I am hopeful that she will at least have a Democratic Senate. Maybe a Democratic House. (And if the gods are listening, I’d REALLY like Darrell Issa to have to go back to selling cars. Just sayin’.)

    I’m still concerned about some of her positions, especially those regarding international intervention. But it hasn’t stopped me from donating or from working for her, and it won’t.. I’m looking forward to staying up late November 8th, and dancing in the streets. I didn’t think I’d get to see a woman elected President in my lifetime. My mother — who was born before women could vote — would be dancing with me, if she were still alive to do it. She was a tough New Yorker. She thought Bill Clinton was a good President, but she always said Hillary was just as tough, and just as smart, but Bill was the man, so he got the job. I think Mom was right. But I think we’re going to fix that on November 8th. I really think so.

    I’m with her.

  94. 94.

    Ruckus

    @Anoniminous:

    The 2008 Hillary would never have let something like that out on her official website.

    Not sure about that at all. But in 2008 she never ran against a republican, especially one as vile as tRump, she only ran against Obama in the primary. And not everything that came out of the effort was all that nice. There were some statements that set me back a bit. Can’t recall any of them now, they weren’t that bad but she played hardball primary. Shorter, tRump just brings it out in people, the need to fucking humiliate him, because his entire life has just been asking for it.

  95. 95.

    burnspbesq

    @Lizzy L:

    Every airline fucks up. My experience has been that United fucks up less often than most. More than Lufthansa, but less than American or Delta. Everyone’s mileage varies.

  96. 96.

    Brachiator

    @philadelphialawyer:

    Right, it would definitely be a “mistake” to see love for the Democratic party candidates over the last three national elections as an endorsement of the Democratic party. How could anyone possibly think that?

    Again, among former Sanders supporters, love for Democratic Party candidates in the upcoming election is not the same thing as unconditional love for the Democratic Party. Sanders got 13 million votes in the primary. He received the fifth-most votes of any candidate in a nomination race. What accounts for his appeal? Was it ephemeral or something that Democrats need to pay attention to?

  97. 97.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Lizzy L: O’Hare is not, unless something has changed, a good airport for food. The good Chicago airport for food is Midway. Had you been stuck there longer I’d recommend heading down to Wendy Whited’s for some keiko. Wendy’s good people!

  99. 99.

    Aleta

    @Lizzy L: I like that the first ever AA candidate for president was nominated and elected by a country mile. And now the first ever white woman candidate to be nominated seems likely to win by another beautiful country mile. (And it’s way past time for a woman of color to be nominated and elected.)

  100. 100.

    Ruckus

    @burnspbesq:
    My experience is that yes United fucks up less, but when they do it’s a dozy. It’s like they aren’t prepared that something might go wrong and it takes them forever to figure it out. But they also aren’t the worst at that either. But flying on buses with wings is not that much different than the ones without retractable wheels. Breakdowns do happen, weather does interrupt, people do get sick at the last moment, etc, etc.

  101. 101.

    Darkrose

    @NoraLenderbee: Ugh, do not get me started on the CA ballot. We voted last night and 17 fucking ballot initiatives, plus three city measures! The death penalty one that’s sponsored by the correctional officer’s union and one of the plastic bag ones were especially awful because you have to read them very carefully to realize what they’re really about. And my wife and I don’t work and don’t have kids, plus we vote by mail so we can sit down at the computer and do research on the spot. Most people don’t have that luxury. Then there’s the way the process has been hijacked by corporate money (Pro tip: if RJ Reynolds and Phillip Morris are funding a side, vote the other way.) Seriously, the ballot initiative system is completely broken.

  102. 102.

    Ruckus

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Most airports are not good for food. There are exceptions Houston’s Hobby has a great BBQ place, or did the last time I was through there, LAX has some not so bad places and Atlanta has a couple of decent places in one terminal which of course I can not remember which one.

  103. 103.

    Botsplainer

    @Brachiator:

    I called it “yammering on about achieving impossible and fairly ridiculous things in light of having a conservative controlled House and a Senate that tends center right on its best days”. It was unrealistic, and as is par for the course for Sanders the Incompetent Ideologue, poorly conceived.

  104. 104.

    Botsplainer

    @Ruckus:

    American at ORD has a top notch First Class lounge with great food and gratis premium liquor. Beats the shit out of the Admiral’s Club.

  105. 105.

    Brachiator

    @Spider-Dan:

    P.S. Let the record show that if Bernie had won the primary, the talk now would not be “two horrible candidates” but rather “both parties have become extreme.” In turn, you would have the media going HARD after 1960-1990 Bernie statements (e.g. phone and utility companies should be nationalized).

    I can’t even imagine what the race would be like had Sanders won the primary, with respect to how Trump would have gone after Bernie.

    Ultimately, I think we would be at the same place. Trump isn’t just extreme, he is dangerous and unqualified, and I think that still would have been the ultimate judgement of all those newspapers and magazines which definitively rejected Trump.

  106. 106.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Ruckus: United going through their hub at O’Hare is a recipe for disaster. United going up and down just the east coast is generally okay.

  107. 107.

    Ruckus

    @Botsplainer:
    I got to see a lot of Delta and United lounges at one time, now I fly so rarely that I can barely remember how crappy it is to fly any more.

  111. 111.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    @Lizzy L:

    I’d REALLY like Darrell Issa to have to go back to selling cars.

    Car alarms, Issa sold car alarms. You know the one that would yell, “Stand back this car protected by Viper”. BTW, that’s Issa’s voice you’re hearing.

  112. 112.

    dogwood

    @Brachiator:
    You know that whether it was Hillary or Bernie who got the nod, the next president is likely to have a slight dem majority in the Senate for 2 years and a rep. House for four. No politician wants to ignore those voters. The problem is no president can deliver what Bernie promised. So they are just as naive as the republican voters who believe that we still have Obamacare because the republican congress didn’t try hard enough.

  114. 114.

    Ruckus

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Actually I had pretty good luck with United at O’Hare. Did get canceled once in the winter time and we had to line up with an agent to be rebooked. Poor woman got shit for every perceived wrong that airlines have ever been accused of from everyone in front of me. My turn, I smiled and thanked her for putting up with so many bad tempered and bad mannered people. I got booked on the next flight and bumped to first class. It’s nice to see that not being a dick pays off.

  115. 115.

    Botsplainer

    @Ruckus:

    Delta is OK, but AA has that all over them lounge-wise.

    The thing that most annoys me about AA is the obsession with collecting the noise-limiting headphones in business and first class with a half hour to go. Everybody else is content if you leave them in the seat – they’re too big for people to want to carry off.

  116. 116.

    NotMax

    @Adam L. Silverman

    Food choices at Seattle airport were varied and looked tasty, albeit wildly expensive. The only reasonable prices in the concourse where waited were at a tiny freestanding spot named after (and presumably owned by) celebrity chef Cat Cora. Limited menu; most of the space was devoted to the bar.

    Having brought my own eats, all I purchased from anywhere there was an iced tea.

  117. 117.

    Pest Bog Mummy, Frakensteinbeck

    My prediction from the beginning was that as the election went on, it would get harder and harder for the media to hide what Hillary is actually like and what her positions are. When people saw her, rather than hearing about her through filters, they would love her. I figured Trump would have a similar ‘To know him is to hate him’ effect as Romney, but I have to say, Trump is actually even worse than the misshapen abomination I knew about.

    @andy:
    Yes, Scott. Of course you will. You’re so brave and manly, a real Alpha.

  119. 119.

    Lizzy L

    @burnspbesq: No argument. (Though I fly Southwest a lot, and I’ve rarely had a bad flight with them.) I just needed to holler.
    @Adam L Silverman: I’ve never flown through Midway — at least, I don’t remember going there. Not sure why not, I’m certainly not trying to avoid it. Come to think of it, I’ve never flown through Newark, either. But if I ever do go to Midway I’ll be sure to check out the food.

    Wendy Whited and I have never met, but we have a mutual friend in George Ledyard, so it’ll probably happen one of these days.

  120. 120.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Ruckus: That’s my preferred MO with the airline personnel – treat them like you’re interested in them.

    As for O’Hare: I’ve had too many bags lost there/going through there. For both domestic and international flights.

  121. 121.

    Brachiator

    @Lyrebird:

    Oh there are also (if I read the Spanish correctly, hundreds of people signing a cardboard wall around his castle I mean hotel in Vegas, and they made a beautiful ad (scroll down) saying “somos el muro” — we’re the wall! between you and the presidency

    This is great. Thanks for finding this.

    Some of the women at the wall signing are wearing a sash that says Ms Housekeeping, a reference to the insult that Trump hurled at the former Miss Universe.

    It’s going to be a tough two weeks for His Orange Hair-ness. He’s going to be mocked so thoroughly that he will never be able to come up with enough Twitter comebacks.

  122. 122.

    NotMax

    @NotMax

    Forgot to mention that since it was a freestanding facility, was able to grab a seat in one of the waiting areas nearby and enjoy the piano player inside the half walls..

  123. 123.

    Spider-Dan

    @Brachiator: I think you are underselling the reaction of corporate American media to a self-proclaimed socialist. Bernie vs. Trump is the wet dream of the “both sides” media, and while they are certainly fascinated with any story that involves the naughty bits, there would certainly be enough Cold War-era choice Bernie quotes about economic propositions and left-wing governments to give them balance for the duration of the general.

  124. 124.

    Brachiator

    @Cracker and toast:

    Bernie lost the primary. Perhaps you were not aware or are still in denial.

    I am on record here as having rejected Sanders because I did not find him to be a credible candidate.

    But you did not answer my question. The Democrats are getting the vast majority of the votes of Sanders’ supporters. Do you want them or not? Do you really expect them to fall in line and become docile, complacent Democrats, or do you recognize that they may want something more?

  125. 125.

    Botsplainer

    @NotMax:

    Hey, who all remembers the shit airport food and watery drinks of 35 years ago, ducking Hare Krishnas and buying flight insurance from those dumb kiosks?

    It is better now – just avoid any Guy Fieri place. They managed to fuck up a Bloody Mary and breakfast burrito.

  126. 126.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Lizzy L: I’m close with both George and Wendy – they’re buds. Next time you see George ask him about me doing a Wolfgang Puck impersonation for him while cooking for him and his better half. They, and John Messores, were staying with me – I was hosting George for a seminar when I was dojo cho at UF/Gainesville Aikikai. Actually had him in three times. I remember the first time I ever trained with him. Messores Sensei was going to do a seminar at George’s for the first time. I went as John’s dedicated uke (punching bag). We stayed with George. Anyhow, first night/class of the seminar George grabs me for the first technique. I grabbed his wrist and my head moved. I never saw the jab. I felt the jab, but I never saw the jab! About a 1/2 hour in, because of bad traffic, Dan Penrod (like me another one of Messores’s senior yudansha) arrived with his students from Oregon. That was a great seminar. We had great weather in Seattle the entire four days we were there.

    As for Wendy: she’s got a small dojo south of Chicago in the cornfields. The dojo logo is a tsuba where the ornamentation is four ears of corn. I’ve got one of the t-shirts: “Corn Fed Aikido” is underneath the logo/crest. I would do a Wendy Whited seminar over almost every other instructor. She’s both that good and that fun to train with. George too! And I’m always partial to John, just because I came up as his student when we were one of, if not the, most top heavy, in terms of yudansha, dojo in the country. On any given night you’d have between 12 and 20 yudansha. And we were all trying to just crush each other. I once described John to the late Paul Kang Sensei this way: “Paul Sensei, you’re classical music. John is acid jazz!”

  127. 127.

    NotMax

    @Adam L. Silverman

    1974. Flights to Europe ($99 on Icelandair!), flights through Europe and the U.K., flights back to U.S.. Delays and cancellations, but no lost luggage

    Until the last leg, a Monmouth Airlines puddlejumper from JFK to Scranton. Luggage not there upon arrival.

    Was handed a stiff pre-printed card and told to mark what my bag looked like. Trouble was the card had pictures of shapes of luggage used by no one on this planet. Remember a triangle, a cone and a hexagon, particularly. Nothing remotely resembling the backpack which was the totality of my luggage.

    Yes, it did eventually get found and delivered to my door, some 40 miles from the Scranton airport. Having to make an 80 mile round trip during the gas crunch probably made someone very unhappy.

  128. 128.

    Brachiator

    @Spider-Dan:

    I think you are underselling the reaction of corporate American media to a self-proclaimed [email protected] Bernie vs. Trump is the wet dream of the “both sides” media,

    I disagree. A healthy chunk of the media were able to get beyond the “Trump and Clinton both have huge unfavorable ratings” to see that Trump was an unworthy candidate. Did you see the long piece in the Daily News calling for a landslide defeat of Trump?

    The odds are that in the alternate history we are talking about, some conservative newspaper would have written, “Holy Shit! We’re endorsing the [email protected]”

  131. 131.

    Lizzy L

    My bag just arrived. Everything intact, including the chocolate and the dirty laundry.

    I’m going to bed.

  134. 134.

    amk

    Jeff Gauvin @JeffersonObama

    #POLLS 10/24 6PM
    ■ABC/WP: CLINT+12
    ■NOLA: C+12
    ■CNN: C+5
    ■SUSA: C+10
    ■ATL: C+15
    ■QUIN: C+7
    ■BLO: C+9
    ■CBS/NYT: C+9
    ■MON: C+12
    ■NBC/WSJ: C+10

    3:46 AM – 25 Oct 2016

    but heh, rasmussen T +2.

  135. 135.

    Spider-Dan

    @Brachiator: They were able to get past Benghazi and the e-mails because from a policy standpoint, Hillary is completely within the window of what they consider “acceptable discourse.” Bernie is not.

    Marco Rubio is also within that window. So in a world where Bernie and Rubio won their primaries, we would be seeing the precise inversion of what we are seeing right now: a media piling on the “extreme” candidate. I consider this a fait accompli for any failed GOP candidate except possibly Cruz, and that’s only because I’m not sure exactly how much everyone in DC utterly despises him.

  136. 136.

    NotMax

    @Botsplainer

    Hot dogs boiled until they were the proper shade of gray, with just a teasing hint of tan.

    Not to mention lounge seating designed by DeSade & Co.

  137. 137.

    JR in WV

    @NoraLenderbee:

    Believe it or not, we put the death penalty down here in West Virginia decades ago. I don’t even remember when, it was so long ago, and I’m 65. Really glad California is about to catch up on that front. Congratulations on your vote!

    ETA: And on Hillary, too!! We’ll be voting for her at the usual time and place, in order to see the same poll workers who have checked us in for 30 years now. It’s a date, twice every two years!

  138. 138.

    Brachiator

    @Spider-Dan:

    They were able to get past Benghazi and the e-mails because from a policy standpoint, Hillary is completely within the window of what they consider “acceptable discourse.” Bernie is not.

    Trump is and always will be beyond the pale for anyone rational. And that includes the media.

    Marco Rubio is also within that window.

    I listened to a GOP strategist claim that Rubio could have defeated Clinton. He also predicts that Rubio will be the GOP nominee in 2020.

    I think that Rubio is an empty suit, and can never overcome his essential shallowness.

  139. 139.

    Spider-Dan

    @Brachiator:

    Trump is and always will be beyond the pale for anyone rational. And that includes the media.

    If that were true, the media would not have been giving him fawning softball interviews for the entire GOP primary.

    Acceptability is ALWAYS relative.

  141. 141.

    JR in WV

    @Mnemosyne:

    I just read the article, not going to look at the pdf of details, just the information in the article is brutal for the Rs. The number of Republicans who plan to vote dropped 7 points since the previous poll, that’s a wonderful number, with two more weeks to drop in free-fall. Trump is losing white women bigly and barely holding on with white men. Being an old white guy, I can say finally!

    I’ve been so apprehensive the whole summer, these polling numbers are a great relief.

    Mrs J and I are leaving early tomorrow to get her to the hospital by 7:30 for knee replacement surgery, her second – the first one went really well, so I’m as optimistic about this as I am about Hillary’s election. Same Dr did both my shoulders last year, so we’re happy repeat customers. Obvious why I’m not asleep yet, though.

  142. 142.

    JR in WV

    @Brachiator:

    Remember Rubio’s performance in the R debates? Repeating the same stupid memorized slogan like a failing robot!

    Imagine him trying to work around Hillary… she would just put him in his place. If she decided to run again in 2020, she won’t have any trouble with Little Marco. Even if he wears those fancy boots. There are no ideas or sophisticated thoughts in his head.

  147. 147.

    different-church-lady

    @NotMax: I don’t understand an economy where everyone feels stressed but you can’t whirl a cat without hitting an overpriced “upscale” restaurant.

  148. 148.

    different-church-lady

    @Spider-Dan: A lot of Bernie-folk were pushing that line in the primaries. But they’ve mostly gotten on board. The only hold-outs at this point were probably only behind Bernie as a virtual-third-party candidate in the first place.

  149. 149.

    Central Planning

    @Adam L Silverman: My United flight from Newark to Rochester was cancelled last week due to “weather”. Turns out they had NOTHING that could get me home that day (well, they could put me on standby for a 10pm flight), so I drove.

    In the past 18 months I’ve driven home from Detroit, DC, and now Newark. In my previous 20 years of flying, I’ve never had to drive home.

    And, there’s a good bar for wings at MDW. Don’t get the burgers though, they are truly horrible. Alas, I don’t remember the name but I would recognize it as I walked by it.

    ETA – and FU to Southwest for cancelling service from ROC to MDW.

  152. 152.

    NorthLeft12

    I’ll add my two loonies in from up in Canada. We have been discussing and following your election probably as much as most Americans, and I have to agree with those above that are pushing the “lesser of two evils” and “neither of them have any policies” arguments, are generally the typical low information/low interest voter cohort.
    They seem to only get their information from FaceBook and morning radio/TV shows. I have tried to point out that Hillary actually has a detailed platform with real policy proposals, and has actually tried to talk about them, but they are not getting a lot of publicity or scrutiny from the media. It is about then that their eyes glaze over and they lose interest in the topic.
    Unfortunately, our societies and education systems have not helped to minimize this kind of attitude. Although in defence of the low i/i voters, your system of government is overly complicated and unwieldy. I was attempting to explain the US Senate and how it works [or doesn’t right now] and pretty much shrugged my shoulders when the person I was speaking to told me “That sounds insane. How can they get anything done?”

  153. 153.

    NorthLeft12

    @JR in WV:

    Remember Rubio’s performance in the R debates?

    Always good for a chuckle. When Chris Christie can embarrass you in a debate, you know that debating is not your strength.
    I think Hillary’s only problem with debating Rubio the Ridiculous, would be that his ineptness and sad eyed boyish looks would gain him some sympathy. She would have had to watch that she did not destroy him utterly or the takeaway would have been that she is a bully. That was a much less probable outcome with Deadbeat Donald.
    There are Cons up here in Canada that think Rubio was the Republicans strongest candidate, and would be beating Hillary right now. If they say this in my presence, I’ll laugh and ask them why they say that. They never get deeper than that he is a youngish Hispanic and moderate man. Sheeeeesh!

  154. 154.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @Brachiator:

    What makes Bernie Sanders so different than every other losing primary candidate in history? This special pleading that somehow Bernie’s supporters need extra special coddling to come on board the train that’s taking them more or less to where they want to go makes me crazy.

  155. 155.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    FWIW, I have been for HRC throughout this election. I have not seen her as a lesser evil. She is, IMO, the most qualified person to run this year. She is an ideal candidate to follow Obama and expand upon and/or defend his accomplishments.

    Yes, this. Have any of the pundits ever said who they thought should be running? Everyone in the GOP and the third parties are jokes, no one else in the Democratic party has Hillary’s stature or experience

  156. 156.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Brachiator: The Sanders supporters I know in real life–not people who spout off on the Internet–were just really liberal voters who wanted to vote for the most liberal candidate, and figured that was Bernie. They were well accustomed to not getting that every time, and switched to supporting Hillary Clinton without a great deal of fuss.

    These people aren’t a controlling majority in the Democratic Party, let alone in the US, and they know it.

    The hardcore Bernie-or-Busters were people who were never into major-party voting in the first place. Longtime Ron Paul/Nader/Jill Stein supporters, or non-voters.

  157. 157.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Some of them kept dreaming of Joe Biden, which I find baffling. Joe Biden’s not a bad guy, but ideologically he has pretty much the same strengths and weaknesses as Hillary Clinton, he’s a less disciplined speaker, and he hasn’t had nearly as much past success even as a presidential candidate. So I don’t see how he’s an improvement unless you’re driven by either Clintonphobia or pure sexism.

  158. 158.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Mary G: from the article

    I’m sorry, Ivanka, I really am, because your mother raised you well and I can’t blame you for supporting your father (even if he did give—at the least—his blessing when you were 15 and signed on as a model yourself with Elite, the hard-partying high-end agency founded by notorious teen-fucker John Casablancas)

    er,.. damn.

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