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You are here: Home / Past Elections / Election 2016 / Thursday Morning Open Thread: Whatever It Takes

Thursday Morning Open Thread: Whatever It Takes

by Anne Laurie|  October 27, 20165:34 am| 296 Comments

This post is in: Election 2016, Hillary Clinton 2016, Open Threads, Proud to Be A Democrat

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A labor union in FL awaited employees with taco trucks and a free shuttle bus to take them to the voting booth. https://t.co/3kZy40MKlu

— NBC Latino (@NBCLatino) October 27, 2016

Good news from the Washington Post:

One short month ago, millennial voters were severely complicating Hillary Clinton’s path to the presidency. This liberal-leaning but highly nonpartisan demographic didn’t like Clinton and was flirting heavily with going third-party. Her lead among them was negligible — only two points in one poll. It was a big liability.

That was a month ago.

Today, in fact, Clinton looks like she might even outperform President Obama among young voters. And it’s a big reason she’s grabbed a lead in the polls.

A new poll of 18-to-29-year olds from the Harvard Institute of Politics shows Clinton leading Donald Trump by 28 points among young likely voters in a four-way matchup that includes Gary Johnson and Jill Stein, 49 percent to 21 percent. That 28-point margin is notably bigger than Obama’s 23-point margin in 2012, when he beat Mitt Romney 60-37 among this group.

And there’s evidence that Clinton’s lead could grow from there…

It’s easy to say you’d choose tire rims & anthrax for dinner, until you’re at the table and the waiter is taking orders. Give the kids credit for learning from their elders’ experience; my first presidential protest vote was for John Anderson, whose candidacy probably didn’t have much effect on Carter’s loss to Reagan, but given a do-over I’d certainly go for the Democrat. Today’s young voters presumably have some memory of the Gore/Bush/Nader debacle, and they’ve grown up living with the various horrors of the Cheney Regency — they have or should have some knowledge of how much our nation can no longer afford to experiment with ‘none of the above’ options. Now it’s up to us Hillbots to convince them that actually showing up at the precinct can be an actual positive, something to be enthusiastic about…

Apart from GOTV, what’s on the agenda for the day?

This is amazing. https://t.co/xHKnBtRQ38 pic.twitter.com/wbIOxcOK64

— Gabe Ortíz (@TUSK81) October 27, 2016

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Previous Post: « Early Morning Oddity Open Thread: Another Faux News Star Loses It
Next Post: APTC Hacking should be a short term hack »

Reader Interactions

296Comments

  1. 1.

    Warren Terra

    October 27, 2016 at 5:44 am

    The Clinton Vs Trump Rap Battle is up, and it’s pretty good.

    Avoid the YouTube comments, but you knew that.

  2. 2.

    prob50

    October 27, 2016 at 5:47 am

    Well, that Yale Record editorial is certainly good news for Donald Trump, what with that stinging rebuke of Hillary Clinton. “exemplary leadership”, “impressive commitment to serving”, most qualified presidential candidate in modern American history”. They really piled it on.

  3. 3.

    Betty Cracker

    October 27, 2016 at 5:50 am

    My 18-year-old is very enthusiastic about casting her first vote for Hillary Clinton. Kids these days…

  4. 4.

    Schlemazel

    October 27, 2016 at 5:51 am

    I stumbled across a series of comic strips that amused me. In the style of Calvin & Hobbs I give you Donald and John the Story of a Candidate and His Imaginary Publicist,

  5. 5.

    rikyrah

    October 27, 2016 at 5:53 am

    Good Morning ?, Everyone ?

  6. 6.

    PST

    October 27, 2016 at 5:57 am

    I remember my vote for John Anderson. When I think other people are making foolish political choices, it helps me to be reminded that I have done the same. No good comes from listening to the siren song of the maverick.

  7. 7.

    Villago Delenda Est

    October 27, 2016 at 6:01 am

    Apart from GOTV, what’s on the agenda for the day?

    There is no other agenda.

    The GOP must be destroyed.

    And yes, I voted for Anderson too. I was young and dumb. The result was the worst man we could ever elect to the Presidency. I was wrong about that, too.

  8. 8.

    craigie

    October 27, 2016 at 6:03 am

    I read the Yale non-endorsement as a serious test for AI to understand meaning, as opposed to words.

    And yes, it is amazing.

  9. 9.

    prob50

    October 27, 2016 at 6:03 am

    Oh, oh. Boring Schmoe and Mika on. Now switching to reruns of Buffy The Vampire Slayer so as to maintain a stitch of my sanity.

  10. 10.

    satby

    October 27, 2016 at 6:05 am

    @Villago Delenda Est: Well I and many of my friends did too, but I use it as the cautionary tale I tell youngsters these days.

  11. 11.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    October 27, 2016 at 6:07 am

    @PST: I am pure, unlike you and AL; I voted for Carter.

    ETA: I guess I need to add satby and VDE.

  12. 12.

    prob50

    October 27, 2016 at 6:07 am

    Voting since 1972, never tempted to vote any way but DEM for Prez. I think I’ve voted for 1 or 2 Repugs in my life. LA Mayor Riordan for sure once. Can’t really recall a second but I might have. Never for legislative office, though. They’re just too toxic.

  13. 13.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    October 27, 2016 at 6:09 am

    @prob50: Well they didn’t start off with the disclaimer that this is from Wikileaks and can’t be verified by NBC News. It’s in the NY Times and WaPost, have they verified this story? Are they taking Wikileaks at face value?

  14. 14.

    Baud

    October 27, 2016 at 6:12 am

    Hillary will do well vs Trump with young people. It’s still an open question how many will turn out or vote third party. Fingers crossed.

  15. 15.

    PST

    October 27, 2016 at 6:14 am

    On the subject of John Anderson, I can no longer remember with any specificity why I was tempted to vote for him. Like others, I had a general sense that everything was falling apart, and I pinned my uneasiness on an unlucky incumbent who surely deserved support in a contest with Reagan. I have no patience anymore with protest votes. I was 27 years old and should have known better. These days, if I have to choose a journalist that I admire, one of the first that comes to mind is James Fallows. He was working for Carter in those days, and he was right to do so.

  16. 16.

    Jeffro

    October 27, 2016 at 6:15 am

    @craigie:

    I read the Yale non-endorsement as a serious test for AI to understand meaning, as opposed to words.

    That’s a great way to put it!
    Love the backhanded slap at Dr. Stein too…another layer for AI to work through on another day…

    GOTV!

  17. 17.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    October 27, 2016 at 6:15 am

    @Baud: I doubt that many will vote 3rd party, it’ll follow historical percentages. Both Johnson and Stein have come out looking pretty wacky.

  18. 18.

    David ?▶️Bad Hombres▶️? Koch

    October 27, 2016 at 6:16 am

    “Bush has been so bad – maybe the worst president in the history of this country – he’s been so incompetent, so bad, so evil that I don’t think any republican could have [beaten Obama].” (video)

    When Trump is right, he’s right.

  19. 19.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    October 27, 2016 at 6:16 am

    @PST: Heh, so was Tweety.

  20. 20.

    Mustang Bobby

    October 27, 2016 at 6:17 am

    @prob50: Same here, starting at the fire station on the corner of Oak Avenue and Virginia Street in Coconut Grove in 1972 and have never knowingly voted for a Republican in 44 years.

  21. 21.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    October 27, 2016 at 6:18 am

    @David ?▶️Bad Hombres▶️? Koch:

    When Trump is right, he’s right.

    Well, there’s always a first time.

  22. 22.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    October 27, 2016 at 6:22 am

    I may have voted for the Republican Congresscritter, Barry Goldwater, the first couple of votes. He was pretty much a standard moderate Republican(unlike his dad). I voted for a Rethug for Insurance Commissioner about 10 years ago cause the Dem had some ethical problems, turns out after the Rethug was elected his were worse. Pretty much learned my lesson from that.

  23. 23.

    satby

    October 27, 2016 at 6:24 am

    So, open thread. I mentioned last night that I was taking on 6 foster cats for what I hope is a short time. Maine coons and Ragdolls. A hoarder with 38 cats has agreed to turn them over to our little rescue. Some blog readers kindly chipped in on the fundraiser I mentioned a couple weeks ago for cat food and litter, just wanted them to know how quickly their contributions are being put to work rescuing more pets. Once we know they’re healthy we will have them listed on PetFinder.

  24. 24.

    Baud

    October 27, 2016 at 6:25 am

    @satby: You are a good soul.

  25. 25.

    Betty Cracker

    October 27, 2016 at 6:25 am

    You Anderson voters are weak sauce as cautionary tales. I voted for Ralph Nader in 2000 — in Florida. I will regret it the rest of my life. There’s no excuse, of course, but at least we Nader voters didn’t have a modern historical precedent to illustrate the possible consequences of our enormously foolish act of self-righteousness. The same cannot be said of third-party voters in 2016.

  26. 26.

    prob50

    October 27, 2016 at 6:26 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    Well they didn’t start off with the disclaimer that this is from Wikileaks and can’t be verified by NBC News. It’s in the NY Times and WaPost, have they verified this story? Are they taking Wikileaks at face value?

    Not to mention that Mika (as far as I know) hasn’t read it out loud on M.Joe yet. THAT’S the real test of credibility these days.

  27. 27.

    David ?▶️Bad Hombres▶️? Koch

    October 27, 2016 at 6:26 am

    Some in the deeply factionalized Republican Party, including Mr. Trump and some of his senior aides, are already fanning the flames for a revolt against the House speaker, Representative Paul D. Ryan of Wisconsin, once Congress reconvenes after the election. Mr. Trump, who has lashed out at the speaker for being critical of him, has privately said that Mr. Ryan should pay a price for his disloyalty, according to two people close to Mr. Trump who insisted on anonymity to describe internal campaign discussions.

    ***

    There is Breitbart, which over the weekend ran a 3,000-word article, headlined “He’s With Her,” excoriating Mr. Ryan as complicit in an increasingly likely Clinton victory.

    Under reported story line: how the Trump/Breitbart/Pepe Caliphate will prevent media darling Ryan from ever becoming president.

  28. 28.

    satby

    October 27, 2016 at 6:27 am

    @Baud: only one of many, and many are in this community ?

    Good morning also, too. Where are my manners?

  29. 29.

    satby

    October 27, 2016 at 6:28 am

    @David ?▶️Bad Hombres▶️? Koch: ewww, please don’t make me feel like there’s something have to be grateful to those fucks for.

  30. 30.

    prob50

    October 27, 2016 at 6:29 am

    satby: You are a good soul.

    Ditto for me on that one.

  31. 31.

    Baud

    October 27, 2016 at 6:29 am

    @satby:

    True. I like to think I add balance to the BJ Force.

    Good morning.

  32. 32.

    satby

    October 27, 2016 at 6:31 am

    @Betty Cracker: Having learned my lesson with Anderson, I have avoided and helped my offspring avoid similar mistakes. So Nader held no attractions for us. But Illinois isn’t a third party friendly state anyway.

  33. 33.

    geg6

    October 27, 2016 at 6:31 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    I’m pure, too.

  34. 34.

    prob50

    October 27, 2016 at 6:32 am

    @satby:

    Where are my manners?

    Manners?? We don’t need no steenkeeng manners!

    j/k, of course.

  35. 35.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 27, 2016 at 6:32 am

    @satby: Sucker. ;-)

  36. 36.

    satby

    October 27, 2016 at 6:32 am

    @Baud: we suffered while you were away. Yuuge snark deficit.

  37. 37.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    October 27, 2016 at 6:33 am

    @prob50: She read the disclaimer yesterday and then they discussed it as if it were the God’s Truth.

  38. 38.

    prob50

    October 27, 2016 at 6:33 am

    OK, OK… good morning to all of you, too.

  39. 39.

    satby

    October 27, 2016 at 6:33 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: yup.

    Edited to add, 38 cats inside a 1100 square foot house. I will never understand hoarders. And I have a lot of rescues, but I expect to find them homes if possible. I sure don’t want to keep them all.

  40. 40.

    prob50

    October 27, 2016 at 6:35 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    She read the disclaimer yesterday and then they discussed it as if it were the God’s Truth.

    Ah. my bad then.

    Glad someone else has the patience to monitor Moron Joe these days. I don’t think I have high blood pressure, but wtching them is certainly pushing the envelope for me.

  41. 41.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    October 27, 2016 at 6:37 am

    @prob50: I only lasted about 5 minutes today. I do have my BS tolerance level. Also, I’m thinking of taking the train to DTLA and take some pics, depending on the weather.

  42. 42.

    prob50

    October 27, 2016 at 6:40 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Train, eh? Good idea to avoid driving/parking situation DT.

  43. 43.

    Betty Cracker

    October 27, 2016 at 6:43 am

    @satby: “38 cats inside a 1100 square foot house.” Trying and failing to imagine what that would be like. It’s a mindset I don’t understand either. I’m guessing they mean well, and then things just snowball out of control.

  44. 44.

    Baud

    October 27, 2016 at 6:43 am

    @satby: Snark deficit? On BJ? Unpossible.

  45. 45.

    p.a.

    October 27, 2016 at 6:44 am

    My first vote was for Anderson too! When he came to speak on campus it was like a rock star visiting.

  46. 46.

    Kay

    October 27, 2016 at 6:44 am

    @Baud:

    Chuck Todd ‏@chucktodd 10h10 hours ago
    The biggest consistent movement this month that just about every poll has captured: slow collapse/erosion (outside UT) of third party cands

    Trump will go up a little too now because 15% of people are not now and never were going 3rd Party. Outside of Utah. Because they’re principled :)

    Third Party voters are weird to me because they’re engaged way more than ordinary voters yet somehow still weirdly uninformed. You’d think they’d figure something out along this anguished path they take, but they don’t – it’s like “oh, I can’t decide between Jill Stein and the former GOP governor”. WTF?

  47. 47.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 27, 2016 at 6:46 am

    I love this head line: DDoS attack that disrupted internet was largest of its kind in history, experts say or at least 30 years.

  48. 48.

    Chris T.

    October 27, 2016 at 6:48 am

    I was too young to vote in the Anderson-containing election, but if I had not been, I might have made that particular mistake.

    I’m much older now, and at least a little bit wiser. ?

  49. 49.

    Baud

    October 27, 2016 at 6:49 am

    @Kay: Never quote me Chuck Todd. :-)

    I hate that third party has come to mean nothing in terms of new ideas, but simply not one of the two major parties. It’s purely tribalism by people who are supposedly protesting tribalism.

    It’s all of the complaining without any of the responsibility.

  50. 50.

    Matt McIrvin

    October 27, 2016 at 6:49 am

    My progressive friends, even the sanest ones, are all passing around the link to that Matt Stoller “history of how the Democrats came to FUCKING SUCK” article, and I can’t even bear to click on it to see whether it makes sense, because this is the guy who wanted Mitt Romney to win to Heighten the Contradictions and I don’t think they know that and I don’t think I can take any more of that right at this historical moment.

  51. 51.

    prob50

    October 27, 2016 at 6:50 am

    @satby:

    38 cats inside a 1100 square foot house. I will never understand hoarders.

    When I was a kid back in Norwalk, CT my piano teacher, Ms. Maine, was also the community cat lady. DOZENS of them. Her husband was a builder and he eventually bought the lot next door and built a new house to actually live in. I think the cat population eventually grew to 100+ before my family moved out here to LA.

    Her daughter, Ruth, was my Mom’s BF and she certainly had an interesting perspective of “Family Life”. She was a real straight shooter and not inclined to mince words about stuff, but she was really a lot of fun and mostly pretty nice, too.

  52. 52.

    Baud

    October 27, 2016 at 6:50 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Even larger than the Mongol DDoS attack of 1286? Wow!

  53. 53.

    Baud

    October 27, 2016 at 6:51 am

    @Matt McIrvin: They are not progressive and they are not your friends.

  54. 54.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 27, 2016 at 6:51 am

    @Kay:

    Third Party voters are weird to me because they’re engaged way more than ordinary voters yet somehow still weirdly uninformed.

    It’s not uninformed Kay, more like a basic failure of logic. The purity of their bodily fluids are more important than whether we survive a nuclear holocaust.

  55. 55.

    Chris T.

    October 27, 2016 at 6:52 am

    @Matt McIrvin: Whenever someone says “heighten the contradictions”, slap them in the face. When they say “what was that for?” you can answer: “It heightened the contradictions.”

  56. 56.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    October 27, 2016 at 6:54 am

    @prob50: I’ve been taking MetroLink into DTLA and then you get a free transfer to Metro’s rail and buses. Saved me $30 when I went to the Getty and UCLA.

  57. 57.

    Matt McIrvin

    October 27, 2016 at 6:57 am

    @Baud: The thing is, these people are not Steiniacs; they’re all rejecting that argument with regard to Trump. They just don’t like the situation, which I can understand. And they may not know Stoller’s history.

  58. 58.

    TheMightyTrowel

    October 27, 2016 at 6:58 am

    An aside: the best thing i read in a yale newspaper in my 4 years there was a several part series written by a classmate who got a film internship through an official alumni networking program which ended up with him behind the camera at a minor pr0n studio in LA. the alumni who registered with the networking program had not been 100% upfront about the type of film production they were involved in when they advertised the internship.

  59. 59.

    Frankensteinbeck

    October 27, 2016 at 6:58 am

    @David ?▶️Bad Hombres▶️? Koch:
    Ryan had no chance anyway. Remember his role in Mitt Romney’s campaign? No? Neither does anybody else. He has one, and only one, advantage: The media LOVES the idea of cutting the safety net to the bone. Unfortunately, this is less than popular with anybody but them and the hardest core wing nuts.

  60. 60.

    prob50

    October 27, 2016 at 7:01 am

    @Kay:

    Third Party voters are weird to me because they’re engaged way more than ordinary voters yet somehow still weirdly uninformed.

    Have an old friend up North who is always voting 3rd party for Prez. Everything is Black or White to him. So Obama is as bad as Bush because he didn’t immediately pull completely out of Iraq, etc. Change MUST BE IMMEDIATE!!. Incremental progress is a cop-out, and on and on and on.

    Needless to say, not so close to him anymore. Too bad, it’s hard to make new “old good friends” ya’ know.

  61. 61.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    October 27, 2016 at 7:02 am

    @Matt McIrvin: Some Germans in 1932 wanted to heighten the contradictions too, nach Hitler uns.

  62. 62.

    Baud

    October 27, 2016 at 7:02 am

    @Matt McIrvin: I’m tired of the Dem hating culture. Whether it’s in the media or on the left.

    GMA is going all in on emails.

  63. 63.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    October 27, 2016 at 7:03 am

    @Baud: They’re called enablers.

  64. 64.

    Baud

    October 27, 2016 at 7:03 am

    GMA actually using “questions” and “shadows.”

  65. 65.

    Kay

    October 27, 2016 at 7:05 am

    I would like to officially retract my prior belief that this is like an ordinary D v R race, as far as Trump supporters. They’re horribly ramped up and insanely angry and I wish this was over.

    Bush v Kerry was an ugly race here- the Bush supporters were all hopped up on war fervor and religious fundamentalism, but this is far worse.

    Whatever extra security they’re planning probably needs to go in right about now. They’re gonna go nuts when they lose. They’re nuts now and they think they’re winning.

  66. 66.

    prob50

    October 27, 2016 at 7:07 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: I’m still chained to my car. Not good at the planning and organization required to efficiently and pleasantly use mass transit. Makes me a little more”stay at home”than I probably ought to be, but I’m not all that good at ‘change” either.

    Hey, everybody get offa my lawn!

  67. 67.

    Princess

    October 27, 2016 at 7:08 am

    I heard a woman on NPR who claimed to be a Democrat say yesterday that she still wasn’t sure who to vote for because she hadn’t been able yet to visualize herself marking Hillary’s name on the ballot. I don’t know how these people manage to dress themselves. She also didn’t want to hear any reason to vote for her that included any mention of “Trump” or “Supreme Court” because obviously she manages to live in an alternate reality where those two things don’t exist.

  68. 68.

    kindness

    October 27, 2016 at 7:08 am

    Oh yea, John Anderson. I had switched my registration to Republican so I could vote for him in the primary out here in CA. Only John pulled out by the time our primary came around. Didn’t matter really as I had planned to vote (& did) for Carter in the general. Damn you Ronnie Raygun.

  69. 69.

    Baud

    October 27, 2016 at 7:08 am

    @Kay: Sorry to hear that. Hope people are safe.

  70. 70.

    NorthLeft12

    October 27, 2016 at 7:10 am

    I found the following tidbit on Hullabaloo;

    “You’re going to still have a clamor for a serious criminal investigation of Mrs. Clinton’s conduct with respect to her emails and the [Clinton] Foundation,” Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton told NBC News. “There’s been no systematic investigation of various issues.”

    I love how these RWNJs can say with a straight face that all previous investigations were not “serious” or “systematic” and somehow missed important information. This does not say much about the asshats who ran the previous committees, but their implied incompetence is brushed over because ……

    At this point I don’t believe they even care if they get the result they want [Hillary Clinton in jail or sobbing in the witness stand] it is just the continuation of their long strategy against Hillary to keep her connected to any perceived “scandal”. That is all that matters anymore.
    And to the Republicans; How did that [strategy] work out for ya? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

  71. 71.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 27, 2016 at 7:10 am

    @Kay:

    the Bush supporters were all hopped up on war fervor and religious fundamentalism, but this is far worse.

    Huh. I thought Trump voters were hopped up on the same, just a different war and a different religion.

  72. 72.

    Woodrowfan

    October 27, 2016 at 7:12 am

    I really liked Anderson but voted Carter in 80. I voted early via absentee and the polls were very close at the time.

  73. 73.

    satby

    October 27, 2016 at 7:13 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Hey, how’s the arm?

  74. 74.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    October 27, 2016 at 7:14 am

    @prob50: Actually, I have to credit Baud for getting me on the rails. He wanted IR pics of the ocean, so I took Metrolink to Union Station and the Metro rail to Santa Monica. Baud got his pics.

    ETA: $6 to Santa Monica and back, a steal.

  75. 75.

    Baud

    October 27, 2016 at 7:15 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: You’re welcome.

  76. 76.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 27, 2016 at 7:15 am

    @NorthLeft12: The FBI is sooooo unserious.

  77. 77.

    Kay

    October 27, 2016 at 7:18 am

    @Baud:

    I’m wondering if the problems will be in “red” areas rather than urban or “blue” areas because what people aren’t taking into account is that local officials in red areas can be just as nuts as Trump supporters. Many of them are Trump supporters. Bush had establishment Republicans to kind of keep a lid on things- they’re just absent now. They don’t have any credibility anyway- the GOP base hate them as much as they hate Democrats.

  78. 78.

    satby

    October 27, 2016 at 7:18 am

    @NorthLeft12: it keeps the grift going. If their marks just contribute a.little.bit.more THIS TIME they’ll get the she-devil.

  79. 79.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    October 27, 2016 at 7:18 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: And you can flat out lie to them, ask Martha Stewart.

  80. 80.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 27, 2016 at 7:20 am

    @satby: Saw the Doc yesterday. He said amputation might be our best option at this point.

  81. 81.

    prob50

    October 27, 2016 at 7:20 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Thanks for the info. I’m at northern edge of Culver City and they actually seem to have a pretty decent bus service. I oughta look into it.

  82. 82.

    Baud

    October 27, 2016 at 7:21 am

    @Kay: Aren’t you in a red area? That’s not comforting.

  83. 83.

    debbie

    October 27, 2016 at 7:25 am

    @Kay:

    Don’t forget about all the threats to “police” the voting in “certain areas.” My guess is that the blue areas will feel it more than the red. My polling place is a Jewish Orthodox temple and I would think somewhat of a target, but the local police will be all over the parking lot and neighboring streets.

  84. 84.

    Kay

    October 27, 2016 at 7:26 am

    @Baud:

    Normal people don’t intuitively know how to de-escalate. They tend to escalate when they’re being attacked, which just makes it worse. I hope Clinton has some kind of directives going out- a process they can follow in the moment, without thinking.

    We have several volunteers who would absolutely engage in any kind of dust-up with a Trump supporter, and they can’t do that. They have to de-escalate.

  85. 85.

    Anne Laurie

    October 27, 2016 at 7:26 am

    @PST:

    On the subject of John Anderson, I can no longer remember with any specificity why I was tempted to vote for him.

    For me, it was Carter punting on reproductive rights — specifically, he blew the feminists off & said “Life isn’t fair.”

    I was a single-issue voter that year. My only defense, apart from being young & dumb, is that Carter was still going to win my state (MI) and probably doomed to lose the EV.

  86. 86.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    October 27, 2016 at 7:26 am

    @prob50: The Expo line has a stop in Culver City. They do have pretty good city bus service there, I’ve been thinking about going to the cold war museum there in the southern part of the city.

  87. 87.

    Baud

    October 27, 2016 at 7:27 am

    @Kay: So now ordinary people have to behave better than cops?

  88. 88.

    debbie

    October 27, 2016 at 7:27 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Trump’s ads are promising to turn Washington upside down. Heath Ledger was a whole lot cuter, but Trump is the Chaos Candidate, and he’s pimping that like it’s a good idea.

  89. 89.

    debbie

    October 27, 2016 at 7:28 am

    @Anne Laurie:

    Don’t forget about all that lust in his heart.

  90. 90.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 27, 2016 at 7:32 am

    @Kay:

    I’m wondering if the problems will be in “red” areas rather than urban or “blue” areas because

    The closest most of those idiots have been to a black person was standing behind one in line at the local Walmart that one time. The idea of them going and watching a polling station down at the Cochran housing project is ludicrous on it’s face.

  91. 91.

    Kay

    October 27, 2016 at 7:32 am

    @Baud:

    This is horrible and patronizing but I actually do know these people quite well and I want the kind of hot- head Democrats to sit the rest of the race out. It’s too volatile for the people who get all red- faced and hostile in a normal race. Usually they can be accommodated but it’s like any other social situation where one large group isn’t following norms- everyone else has to hew more tightly to norms. These people are looking for a fight. Don’t give them one.

  92. 92.

    debbie

    October 27, 2016 at 7:32 am

    @Princess:

    This morning, NPR compared and contrasted a Trump outdoor rally where 10,000 seats “apparently” were filled and a Clinton indoor rally of 1,700. They ended with a male Trump supporter confronting a female Clinton supporter who, at the ends, would not let him kiss her hand. Horror!

  93. 93.

    SFAW

    October 27, 2016 at 7:33 am

    @Chris T.:

    Whenever someone says “heighten the contradictions”, slap them in the face. When they say “what was that for?” you can answer: “It heightened the contradictions.”

    As the saying goes, I like the cut of your jib. Please let us know when you decide to run for elective office.

  94. 94.

    bystander

    October 27, 2016 at 7:35 am

    I couldn’t take Joe this morning. First of all, what’s with saying something is not authenticated, then proceeding to discuss the matter as if it were authenticated?

    Also, an email by a third party discussing how Bill Clinton raised money for his foundation means what about Hillary Clinton?

  95. 95.

    Baud

    October 27, 2016 at 7:36 am

    @Kay: I honestly don’t know how I would react in that sort of situation. Part of me is looking for a fight as well.

  96. 96.

    Woodrowfan

    October 27, 2016 at 7:36 am

    taking my election precinct chief training early next week. Waiting to hear what plans Fairfax County (blue Northern VA) have for countering Trumpesta disruption. They had police on ready during the primary (nothing happened)

  97. 97.

    Anne Laurie

    October 27, 2016 at 7:37 am

    @debbie: Nah, Jimmy’s “lust in his heart” I found kinda endearing.

    If he’d been a little politer about dissing us feminists, I’d probably have voted for him, but in those days my ability to nurse a grudge was greater than my common sense!

  98. 98.

    Woodrowfan

    October 27, 2016 at 7:38 am

    RE: rally size. I attended a few large and enthused Mondale rallies in 84. We all know how that one turned out..

  99. 99.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    October 27, 2016 at 7:38 am

    @bystander: They did the same thing yesterday, so they got the Big Click both days.

  100. 100.

    bemused

    October 27, 2016 at 7:39 am

    Hilarious. Reporters in Fla asked 41 Trump supporters about Trump TV channel possibility and they loved the idea. However only 8 said they’d pay for it. The truth should be free and they shouldn’t have to pay for “unbiased” opinions.

  101. 101.

    Baud

    October 27, 2016 at 7:40 am

    @bystander: GMA is on it too. Vague reporting means nothingburger.

  102. 102.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 27, 2016 at 7:40 am

    @Kay: Who said anything about a fight? I wanna give them a beat down. ;-)

    @debbie: I wouldn’t let him kiss my ass.

  103. 103.

    Baud

    October 27, 2016 at 7:41 am

    @Woodrowfan: Rally size is as meaningless as yard signs.

  104. 104.

    craigie

    October 27, 2016 at 7:41 am

    @Baud:
    Ah those were the days. We had to build our own internet. While on horseback!

    Kids today, etc.

  105. 105.

    SFAW

    October 27, 2016 at 7:42 am

    @Princess:
    I heard the first half of that interview, had to get out of the car so I didn’t hear the payoff/punchline (so to speak). But when I heard the “no Trump or SCOTUS” comment, I had pretty much figured out she was going to provide evidence of her being a total fucking moron.

    Every so often, if I thought it would make any difference, a link to TBogg’s “Mumia sweatshirt” post should be put in front of those dumb fucks. But they’ll talk about Bush and Gore being the same, or “there’s just SOMETHING about Hillary that I can’t warm up to,” and so forth. At which point, they should be deported to Dumbfuckistan, along with all the RWNJs.

  106. 106.

    prob50

    October 27, 2016 at 7:42 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Sounds interesting. Maybe let me know if you decide to. I’ll probably be around this site pretty often in the early AM at least thru Election Day. Likely less often after that based on my prior election experience. Prez elections get me pretty wired up, especially since the 2000 fiasco.

  107. 107.

    Iowa Old Lady

    October 27, 2016 at 7:42 am

    @Chris T.: Good one. People who want the contradictions heightened are never the ones likely to be hurt when it happens.

  108. 108.

    Kay

    October 27, 2016 at 7:43 am

    @Baud:

    I’ll call the Clinton organizer today and see if he wants intervention as far as Democrats. I can’t do anything about Republicans but it’s small enough here I can personally call the people who are likely to get in a fight and ask them to calm down or stay home. He’s not a kid- he’s in his 30’s- and he handled last night fairly well- locking the door was a good idea but I wish he had shut it down faster. They’re trained to defer to local people- it’s part of how they work- but some of our volunteers would love to fight, frankly. That’s a disaster.

  109. 109.

    rikyrah

    October 27, 2016 at 7:43 am

    @satby:
    You are good people ??

  110. 110.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 27, 2016 at 7:45 am

    @craigie:

    We had to build our own internet.

    With tin cans and string!

  111. 111.

    Baud

    October 27, 2016 at 7:46 am

    @Kay:

    he’s in his 30’s-

    Now this is the type of millennial I like to hear about.

  112. 112.

    Iowa Old Lady

    October 27, 2016 at 7:47 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: I’m sorry.

  113. 113.

    Matt McIrvin

    October 27, 2016 at 7:49 am

    @Princess:

    She also didn’t want to hear any reason to vote for her that included any mention of “Trump” or “Supreme Court” because obviously she manages to live in an alternate reality where those two things don’t exist.

    A lot of people get really, really angry if you even mention any sort of “spoiler” argument against voting third-party. That John Oliver piece on the third-party candidates actually had a great example of Gary Johnson himself going apeshit on a person in his audience who dared to bring it up (and then Oliver, very cannily I think, avoided going in that direction for the rest of the piece). It’s like that. The usual argument is that it’s a kind of extortion or emotional blackmail, and there’s this powerful “YOU’RE NOT THE BOSS OF ME” undercurrent there.

    A commenter on LGM several days ago, whose name I forget, put it very well: they said these people have an ethical model of democracy in which they have a deontological obligation to vote for the candidate they think is closest to their opinions; and if the system causes something perverse to happen as a consequence, that’s the system’s fault, not theirs.

    Fortunately, they seem to be a fairly small section of the electorate this time around.

  114. 114.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    October 27, 2016 at 7:53 am

    @prob50: Here’s their website, they’re supposed to be moving to the old national guard armory Culver Blvd.

    OT: I just saw something that made me throw up in my mouth a bit, a Victorian house that they had put pink stucco on.

  115. 115.

    Kay

    October 27, 2016 at 7:54 am

    @Baud:

    He’s very nice. Soft spoken. He’s from Houston. They’re not all nice. We had a horrible Obama organizer for the first half of ’08. A former Republican from the Chicago area. He immediately started “dating” the wife of a UAW organizer. I was appalled :)

    I made such a fuss they transferred him and we got this lovely hippie from Oregon. They liked her so much locally they demanded she leave early so she could go to Chicago for the victory event and chipped in for gas and expenses. She left to go to the Chicago park event before they called the race. We promised we wouldn’t tell on her.

  116. 116.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    October 27, 2016 at 7:54 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: That’s how they did it at UCLA in 1969.

  117. 117.

    Matt McIrvin

    October 27, 2016 at 7:55 am

    …But the interesting thing I’m seeing this time around is that even a lot of people who are voting for Hillary Clinton, and even tell other people they have to vote for Hillary Clinton, have an emotional need to vent about how they’re not really Democrats and they know Hillary and the Dems suck, it’s just that it’s really important this time.

    I figure we need to let them vent a little. They’re in a tough situation, and all that disclaiming might actually help them turn people who are feeling similarly.

    I can’t decide whether it’s bad or good for the downticket races. If it gets people to the polls who wouldn’t vote otherwise it might be good.

  118. 118.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 27, 2016 at 7:56 am

    @Iowa Old Lady: It’s either that or just let it fall off…. Joking, just joking. Every time I go see the Doc my wife asks, “What did he say?” I always reply, “He said I’m gonna die.” which obviously enough, I am gonna die. Someday.

  119. 119.

    Patricia Kayden

    October 27, 2016 at 7:56 am

    @Princess: There is such a drastic contrast between Clinton and Trump that no one can honestly say that they don’t know who they’re going to vote for in less than 2 weeks. It’s not as if it’s Clinton versus an arguably moderate Republican like Kasich (not necessarily moderate in terms of abortion, but less extreme than most Republican politicians).

  120. 120.

    Baud

    October 27, 2016 at 7:57 am

    @Matt McIrvin: The problem with that theory, at least on the left, is that almost everything we want done requires some degree of solidarity. People who go off on their own can’t demand others join with them later.

    @Kay: That’s sweet. (The second paragraph.)

  121. 121.

    prob50

    October 27, 2016 at 7:57 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Thanks!

  122. 122.

    Iowa Old Lady

    October 27, 2016 at 8:00 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Whatever gets you through the day!

  123. 123.

    Baud

    October 27, 2016 at 8:02 am

    @Matt McIrvin: It’s infuriating, but if they’re doing to right thing, I agree that we should let them be.

  124. 124.

    Matt McIrvin

    October 27, 2016 at 8:03 am

    Also I just learned that David Brooks wrote an article that included a sentence that began “As the James O’Keefe videos remind us,” and what it reminded us was something other than “James O’Keefe videos are lies”. Why is this man still getting paid?

  125. 125.

    Brachiator

    October 27, 2016 at 8:05 am

    As we head into the final stretch of the election horserace, there are intense, civil conversations taking place. In a discussion on the podcast Politics, Politics, Politics, one guest noted that he regretted voting for Nader in 2000, and made the case for the idea that voters considering a third party vote must absolutely vote for Clinton.

    The other guest felt that you should vote for the Libertarians so that they get over five percent of the vote and so quality for federal matching funds and automatically get on all the state ballots. Failing that, he argued that you should vote for any third party or even not vote at all if you felt that both dominant parties were corrupt.

  126. 126.

    Cermet

    October 27, 2016 at 8:07 am

    First election voted Carter; never considered a thug for anything. Knew Raygun would start a major moment that would slowly, but surely destroy’s this country – looks to be true. Hopefully, demographics reverses this sick tide. Never missed a presidential vote but I am independent, so primaries for me are not allowed here.

  127. 127.

    Patricia Kayden

    October 27, 2016 at 8:07 am

    @Matt McIrvin: Why is Brooks getting paid by the NYT versus some Rightwing rag? That’s the real question.

  128. 128.

    Betty Cracker

    October 27, 2016 at 8:07 am

    @Brachiator: Nader made the exact same argument in 2000 — the matching funds, not a dime’s worth of difference, etc. Anyone falling for that line of horseshit in 2016 should consider donating their organs so that someone else can put them to better use.

  129. 129.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 27, 2016 at 8:08 am

    @Iowa Old Lady: Life is too short to take serious.

  130. 130.

    prob50

    October 27, 2016 at 8:09 am

    @Brachiator:

    one guest noted that he regretted voting for Nader in 2000, and made the case for the idea that voters considering a third party vote must absolutely vote for Clinton.

    There was a similar Op-Ed piece to that effect a few days ago in the LA Times.

  131. 131.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    October 27, 2016 at 8:11 am

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Why is this man still getting paid?

    He’s Canadian, so he’s paid in Canadian Dollars.

  132. 132.

    Cat48

    October 27, 2016 at 8:11 am

    I checked out the abc tracking,poll.this am. Her lead is only 6pts ahead, down from 12 pts, ahead. That has me in a funk. I,want some of the GOP clowns gone since they plan to block everything–even Judges. Maybe we’ll do ok.

  133. 133.

    Felonius Monk

    October 27, 2016 at 8:13 am

    @Baud: But your snark has a certain je ne sais quoi.

  134. 134.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 27, 2016 at 8:14 am

    @Patricia Kayden: Because there isn’t RWRag in the world that would pay him for his soft sell conservatism.

  135. 135.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    October 27, 2016 at 8:15 am

    Sunset in Glendale, last night.

  136. 136.

    NorthLeft12

    October 27, 2016 at 8:16 am

    @Baud: I volunteered a few times for an NDP [think labour socialist] candidate up here, and had to deal with a voter who started throwing around anti-same sex marriage comments. I challenged her with my usual retort, “What impact does two people getting married have on your life?” and it went south from there. The campaign chair quickly interceded and the candidate was admonishing me regarding my treatment of potential supporters. I loudly said [it was a small and open office] “I hate to break it to you Glenn, but that bigot was never going to vote for you anyway.”
    Yeah, I probably would not be much help in that kind of situation.

  137. 137.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 27, 2016 at 8:16 am

    “Gerald doesn’t really have any hobbies.”

    I don’t care if he is a Republican, this is a great ad.

  138. 138.

    prob50

    October 27, 2016 at 8:17 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: very cool pic

  139. 139.

    NotMax

    October 27, 2016 at 8:18 am

    Who needs a chuckle?

    Meanwhile, in news from the other realm…

    Nothing worse than an inept wizard. :)

  140. 140.

    amk

    October 27, 2016 at 8:21 am

    the deadbeat’s bestest polls has her at a tie and at +2. Sad!

  141. 141.

    Matt McIrvin

    October 27, 2016 at 8:22 am

    @Cat48: Any single poll has enough sampling noise in it that you should probably disregard day-to-day fluctuations. HuffPollster’s aggregate has Hillary with a national lead of about 8 points in the two-way contest and 6 points in the 3/4-way, and that number’s been pretty much flat for two weeks.

    News stories about polls are usually pushing some kind of narrative by emphasizing surprising outliers. I think high outliers were getting Democrats very excited about a huge landslide election, but I don’t see much chance of that happening; this is going to be approximately an Obama 2012-sized win, give or take a little. My hunch is that there is going to be a little tightening over the next week and a half, just because there are no more big media events in the race to put the horribleness of Donald Trump and the obvious superiority of Hillary Clinton in your face, and whenever there are none, the race starts creeping back toward a partisan mean. But the clock is running out.

  142. 142.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    October 27, 2016 at 8:23 am

    @prob50: Thanks.

  143. 143.

    Jeffro

    October 27, 2016 at 8:25 am

    @Kay:

    Third Party voters are weird to me because they’re engaged way more than ordinary voters yet somehow still weirdly uninformed. You’d think they’d figure something out along this anguished path they take, but they don’t – it’s like “oh, I can’t decide between Jill Stein and the former GOP governor”. WTF?

    I know, right? It’s almost as if they’re basing their “decision” on something other than their values and policy positions…hmm…

    ETA: whoops and just a comment or two later, Baud nails it:

    It’s purely tribalism by people who are supposedly protesting tribalism.

    It’s all of the complaining without any of the responsibility.

  144. 144.

    Baud

    October 27, 2016 at 8:26 am

    @Matt McIrvin: Agree. The only change at this point will be based on GOTV operations.

  145. 145.

    raven

    October 27, 2016 at 8:27 am

    I once again regret donating trough Act Blue> I’m getting tons of breathless emails from candidates all over the damn country. Never again.

  146. 146.

    hovercraft

    October 27, 2016 at 8:29 am

    Good morning.
    Oh my, oh my, the Morning Joke crew is shocked, just shocked about the “scandal” that is splashed all over the fronts papers today. Trading public service for personal gain. Mika, yuck! The Clintons are just sleazy, at best they are unethical. If over the next 10 days a direct line from speeches to state department can be found then it will be huge for the election. But still this is big on it’s own. Joe wants the Clinton Foundation shut down because they shut down the Trump foundation, which was peanuts, this is $66 million, and it’s sleazy. No evidence of any crime, but it is just sleazy and unethical.

  147. 147.

    Cat48

    October 27, 2016 at 8:30 am

    @Matt McIrvin:
    Yes, I don’t know what to expect. A 2012 win would be good. I was misinformed by Charlie Cook, who.estimated, 5 – 7 Senate pickup, last week. Sigh I think he was wrong.

  148. 148.

    Jeffro

    October 27, 2016 at 8:30 am

    @NorthLeft12:

    I love how these RWNJs can say with a straight face that all previous investigations were not “serious” or “systematic” and somehow missed important information.

    I’m sure they meant that the first seven Benghazeeeee investigations weren’t serious…now that eighth one, that one was starting to approach seriousness…I’m sure by the fourteenth one they’ll have it down…

  149. 149.

    craigie

    October 27, 2016 at 8:32 am

    @raven:
    This is what spam filters are for. I never see any of those!

  150. 150.

    Anya

    October 27, 2016 at 8:33 am

    Man, what the hell happend to Bernstein & Woodward. Carl Bernstein on CNN spewing a bunch of nonsical stuff about how the Clintons are sleazy, money grupping and how they used the foundation to enrich themselves. The CNN anchor woman actually pushed back a tad and asked where’s the wrong doing in some Clinton insider fundraise for the Foundation while at the same time scheduling speaking gigs for Bill. He just spewed more nonsense about how the country feels about the Clintons and how can Trump win because of the wikileak stuff and Trump capitalizing on that. WTF is wrong with these people? Trump is a dangerous, know nothing demagogue who assaults women and brags about it but somehow the country is going to choose him because of some leaked emails that say nothing.

    I can’t wait for this election to be over.

  151. 151.

    Matt McIrvin

    October 27, 2016 at 8:34 am

    @Jeffro: I’m also at the point where I think if they go out and vote for Jill Stein and Democratic downballot candidates, I’m OK with them voting for Stein, because the alternative is probably not voting.

    But I have the feeling that a lot of these people only vote for President, so it may not make any difference.

  152. 152.

    Jeffro

    October 27, 2016 at 8:34 am

    @debbie:

    Trump’s ads are promising to turn Washington upside down. Heath Ledger was a whole lot cuter, but Trump is the Chaos Candidate, and he’s pimping that like it’s a good idea.

    I’ve had more than one otherwise outwardly-sane-appearing human adults tell me that Trump being president would be a good thing because it would “shake things up”. Um, excuse me, what is it that needs shaking up? Our exceptionally low unemployment rate? Increases in middle-class incomes? Our historically high HS graduation rates? Or is the the historically high stock market? And on and on…

    With the stats that Obama & Co have been putting up – especially with that darned “job-killing Obamacare” in the background – you’d think that electing Dems would be seen as the ONLY sane thing to do. But no, we need to “shake things up”…(!)…

  153. 153.

    raven

    October 27, 2016 at 8:35 am

    @craigie: But they come from individual candidates not Act Blue.

  154. 154.

    Matt McIrvin

    October 27, 2016 at 8:36 am

    @raven: I reached total saturation of political begging emails years ago, so I figure getting more doesn’t really make a difference. It’s what spam filters are for.

  155. 155.

    Kay

    October 27, 2016 at 8:37 am

    @Baud:

    There’s a certain breed of Democratic activist who are “don’t bring a knife to a gun fight” braggers. It’s boasting and it’s usually harmless but honestly they’re a pain in the ass in a normal year and this year they have to shut up. They think Democrats are weak and it’s up to them to be the tough guys and gals.

    They’re always people who are themselves bullet-proof. Unemployed or self-employed or retired with security. They always piss me off because they’re like inciting the ladies who work at the medical group and those ladies will get fired if they take this seriously and engage with these lunatics.

  156. 156.

    Jeffro

    October 27, 2016 at 8:38 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    Anyone falling for that line of horseshit in 2016 should consider donating their organs so that someone else can put them to better use.

    I’m just going to keep that line tucked away for future use – thanks Betty!

  157. 157.

    Matt McIrvin

    October 27, 2016 at 8:39 am

    @Cat48: A 5 or 6 seat Senate pickup could totally happen. Sam Wang’s model keeps wavering between 50 and 51 Democratic seats as the mean; that’s a pickup of 4-5.

  158. 158.

    Baud

    October 27, 2016 at 8:40 am

    @Anya: I no longer trust white people and their lizard brains. It’s the only concern I have left in this election. Luckily, it’s a small concern.

  159. 159.

    hovercraft

    October 27, 2016 at 8:40 am

    The other part of the Morning Joe’s and Mika’s hopes are being pinned on the polls that were conducted this week, not last week, which are closer. Nicole Wallace points out that late deciders are women, who this week have been disgusted by Trump and Newt.

  160. 160.

    Baud

    October 27, 2016 at 8:44 am

    @hovercraft: I can’t tell you how much I hate appreciating Nicole Wallace lately. Same for Matthew Dowd. I need to shower in acid.

  161. 161.

    Peale

    October 27, 2016 at 8:44 am

    @debbie: these are people wh credibly believe that the Watts riots never ended and that you can still find burned out cars all over inner cities. And people who believe that there are large sections of “no go” areas in cities where police have handed over their duties to radical Muslims who enforce shariah law in the courts. So no, I don’t think they they’ve been to a city lately. At least not THAT part of town. I think Kay is probably right – they harass voters in their own safe red zones and don’t go to those dangerous places they imagine cheating taking place.

  162. 162.

    MattF

    October 27, 2016 at 8:44 am

    @Matt McIrvin: Looking at the difference between the high and low outliers of the individual polls in the Huffpost collection gives you a good idea of the magnitude of the actual random error– and it’s on the order of 15 points. In other words, it’s huge.

    This raises the question of the random error in the aggregated polls. My own personal opinion about the race is that it hasn’t changed much in the past month– which seems confirmed by the various aggregators. But that gives a small natural range of actual variation that can’t be distinguished from the range of random error.

  163. 163.

    Anya

    October 27, 2016 at 8:44 am

    @Baud: My only hope is that the AA voters and youngs will save us from a Trump presidency.

  164. 164.

    Baud

    October 27, 2016 at 8:45 am

    @Kay:

    Michael Moore’s thesis on MSNBC lately.

  165. 165.

    Baud

    October 27, 2016 at 8:47 am

    @Anya: If we’re saved, it’ll certainly be due to those groups.

  166. 166.

    comrade scott's agenda of rage

    October 27, 2016 at 8:48 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    You Anderson voters are weak sauce as cautionary tales. I voted for Ralph Nader in 2000 — in Florida. I will regret it the rest of my life. There’s no excuse, of course, but at least we Nader voters didn’t have a modern historical precedent to illustrate the possible consequences of our enormously foolish act of self-righteousness. The same cannot be said of third-party voters in 2016.

    Heh heh, now we’re competing for the title of “Who Was the Biggest Voter Moran?”

    I too voted Anderson in 1980 in my first presidential contest (I was 19) and while my vote didn’t have the electoral impact aka Nader in 2000, we all subsequently saw the disaster that St Ronnie and his followers wrought. It made it very clear never to vote 3rd party again which made *not* voting for fucking Nader a no-brainer in 2000.

    The only people I encourage to vote 3rd party are all my Embarrassed Republican friends. Of course what those friends won’t say is that below the presidential line on their ballot, where they’re voting glibertarian, the rest of their ballot is straight Republican. I should encourage them to sit on their asses at home on election day, the country would be better served.

  167. 167.

    Patricia Kayden

    October 27, 2016 at 8:48 am

    @Cat48: Wonder why it dropped 6 points so quickly. But she’s still ahead so keep your head up. Millions of Americans have already voted so I’m confident that our side will come out on top. My only worry is about the Senate.

  168. 168.

    Cermet

    October 27, 2016 at 8:49 am

    @raven: LOL; yes, me too. But have to support the candidate. They will slow and decrease in time – learned this from the President Obama last run when I used that site.

  169. 169.

    Uncle Cosmo

    October 27, 2016 at 8:50 am

    @Anne Laurie: During that campaign, the press traveling with the Carters serenaded them at a private party on the candidate’s 52nd birthday, donning straw boaters (& doffing them at appropriate moments) during the rendition, to the tune of “Heart Of My Heart”:

    Lust in my heart, how I love adultery;
    Lust in my heart, that’s my theology.
    When I was young, at the Plains First Baptist Church,
    I would preach and sermonize–
    But oh, how I would fantasize.
    Lust in my heart, who cares if it’s a sin?
    Leching’s a noble art.
    It’s OK if you shack up,
    I won’t get my back up.
    ‘Cause I’ve got mine, I’ve got lust in my heart.

    Lust in my heart, oh, it’s bad politically;
    Lust in my heart, but it brings publicity
    When I grew up, and ran for President,
    A bunch of women I did screw–
    But in my heart, so no one knew.
    Lust in my heart, I said I’d never lie,
    I guess I wasn’t smart.
    But I’m no gay deceiver,
    I’m a Christian eager-beaver;
    As
    Playboy said, I’ve got lust in my heart.

    “Carter laughed heartily and, it seemed, genuinely at the lyrics.”

    (Source: Jules Witcover, Marathon: The Pursuit of the Presidency, 1976, p. 568. [My copy, acquired as a remainder for $1.98 along about the mid-80s, was sitting placidly in the US History section of my home library, awaiting the day when it might once again be topical, et voila!])

  170. 170.

    Patricia Kayden

    October 27, 2016 at 8:50 am

    @debbie: Trump’s idea of turning Washington upside down would be letting Pence do whatever the hell he wanted to while Trump flits and floats around at rallies. He has already made it abundantly clear that he’s not interested in enacting actual policies. We would basically have a Dick Cheney dominating George Bush situation again.

  171. 171.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 27, 2016 at 8:51 am

    @Baud: The only change at this point will be based on GOTV operation.

    FTFY, no charge as my standard first letter discount applies to the only letter changed.

  172. 172.

    Kay

    October 27, 2016 at 8:52 am

    @Baud:

    It’s really the opposite of “community organizing” if you’re just taking what you read on the internet and applying it to real people in real situations. These people live here. Once the caravan moves on they’ll still live here. 2 weeks after this is over they’ll be sitting with Trump supporters at Thanksgiving. Their boss is 60% likely to be Trump supporter in this county. Moore seems to forget people have to actually interact with one another in real life. I’ve seen his giant lakeside mansion. I see where he could get this idea but it’s a fantasy for most people.

  173. 173.

    Kay

    October 27, 2016 at 8:58 am

    @Baud:

    I’ve been following this so long and the cynicism still takes my breath away. Trump’s campaign manager lives in a top-end suburb with a well-connected lawyer husband. She doesn’t give a shit what happens to these communities she’s injecting this poison into as long as she gets paid. And she’s paid very, very well reading the “humanizing, lifestyle” piece she engineered. They don’t care. They will say and do what they want when they want and the hell with the consequences.

  174. 174.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 27, 2016 at 9:00 am

    @raven: Set up another email account that you will never go back to again, then use it for all your political giving.

  175. 175.

    gene108

    October 27, 2016 at 9:01 am

    In 1980, my first grade teacher wrote the names of the three Presidential candidates on the chalk board, and asked us to vote.

    One kid chose Anderson. The rest of the class voted for Carter. No one voted for Reagan. And I admit at the time, I had never heard of Reagan or Anderson.

    Moral of the story: If six year olds could have voted, Carter might’ve had a chance.

  176. 176.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    October 27, 2016 at 9:02 am

    @David ?▶️Bad Hombres▶️? Koch: Hard time seeing it. If Trump tanks as badly as he’s projected Ryan will be positioned to say “told you so…” In politics nobody like a loser unless it’s Jimmy Carter, and Trump is no Carter.

  177. 177.

    laura

    October 27, 2016 at 9:04 am

    @rikyrah: it takes one to know one!

  178. 178.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 27, 2016 at 9:04 am

    @Baud:

    I no longer trust white people and their lizard brains. It’s the only concern I have left in this election. Luckily, it’s a small concern.

    They are small brains.

  179. 179.

    raven

    October 27, 2016 at 9:05 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: I have an idea, don’t sell my email address to all these people after I donate.

  180. 180.

    Another Scott

    October 27, 2016 at 9:06 am

    @PST: Me too.

    Voting for the maverick in the Primary is fine and good. But one needs to vote the Party in the General election. A single person, no matter how qualified and well-aligned with one’s views, cannot do much of anything in the national government by themselves. The parties control what happens in Congress, so to move things forward it’s important to vote for the better party. I wish I had taken that lesson to heart earlier.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  181. 181.

    Matt McIrvin

    October 27, 2016 at 9:06 am

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Wonder why it dropped 6 points so quickly.

    Regression to the mean, I think. The high value was just a statistical outlier.

  182. 182.

    Betty Cracker

    October 27, 2016 at 9:08 am

    @comrade scott’s agenda of rage: I was too young to vote when Reagan ran, but IIRC, Reagan won in a landslide, and even if every single Anderson voter had voted for Carter, Reagan would have won anyway. So I still say it doesn’t stack up as a cautionary tale to the 2000 fiasco — it’s the difference between being TOLD the stove is hot and finding out by touching it, and the “biggest morans” are anyone who touches the stove again just to make sure, IMO.

  183. 183.

    Kay

    October 27, 2016 at 9:09 am

    Here’s Scarborough and Brzezkinski making fun of @Fahrenthold’s Trump Foundation reporting.

    Why are markets failing so tragically in journalism? The worst people make the most money. It’s all fucked up. Wikileaks should release all their emails so we can figure out how this massive market failure happened. They’re rigging something. It’s too consistent to be an accident.

  184. 184.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 27, 2016 at 9:11 am

    @Patricia Kayden: It’s just noise.

  185. 185.

    Matt McIrvin

    October 27, 2016 at 9:12 am

    @MattF: In 2012, the late aggregated national polling was a couple of points off in Romney’s direction. But aggregated state polling called the result pretty much dead on, not just the electoral count but the whole map–the one state it couldn’t get was Florida.

    This year, the national polling looks much more favorable to Clinton but the state polling is showing a win of about the same size as 2012. So I’m thinking the national polls are not hugely biased toward Trump this time. But we’ll see soon enough.

  186. 186.

    JMG

    October 27, 2016 at 9:13 am

    Cabl@Kay: Cable news is not journalism. It is propaganda for the political views owners/management of the mass media behemoths who operate them. Going all Trump all the time made CNN $100 million extra. If he goes down in flames on Nov. 8, Jeff Zucker’s gonna have to steal and hide a jetliner somewhere.

  187. 187.

    prob50

    October 27, 2016 at 9:14 am

    @gene108:

    One kid chose Anderson. The rest of the class voted for Carter. No one voted for Reagan. And I admit at the time, I had never heard of Reagan or Anderson.

    Back in 1980 I lived in small rented house next door to the assembly plant of a lighting company. I was sitting on the can one morning before going to work and heard two workers talking about the election as they walked onto their lot. One was discussing the pros and cons, but the other guy interrupted and said. “Yeah, but Reagan’s a f*cking lunatic”. I nearly fell off the seat.

    Unfortunately, not enough Americans figured that out. Gawd, do I dislike the direction that jerk sent us in. Worse still, all the people I worked with, and I mean ALL, were big fans of Reagan.;

    My boss and his wife were active in the congressional campaign of that toad Dan Lundgren.

  188. 188.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 27, 2016 at 9:16 am

    @Patricia Kayden:

    We would basically have a Dick Cheney dominating George Bush situation again.

    That is giving Pence way too much credit. For that matter the same could be said of Trump.

  189. 189.

    Matt McIrvin

    October 27, 2016 at 9:16 am

    @Kay: Political TV shows are mostly consumed by rich people and old people (unless they’re sold as comedy). These are Republican markets. I don’t think there’s any mystery there to explain.

  190. 190.

    Another Scott

    October 27, 2016 at 9:18 am

    @satby:

    I will never understand hoarders.

    I’m not a “hoarder” per se, but I do hold on to stuff for too long (it seems like as soon as I get rid of something I end up needing it). The brain is complicated – it’s not hard to imagine an “I might need this in the future” filing system becoming corrupted for some reason.

    For cat hoarders, Toxoplasma gondii has been implicated in some cases, but I don’t know how much of that is just scaremongering.

    Thanks for your efforts. Good luck finding homes for the little fury monsters!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  191. 191.

    hovercraft

    October 27, 2016 at 9:19 am

    See the Trump does have a strategy to win the election, from TPM.

    In the run-up to Election Day, Donald Trump’s campaign has two goals: suppress voter turnout among key Democratic constituencies and shore up a mass database of voter contact information to be used for whatever comes next.

    A Bloomberg Politics story out Thursday provided a rare behind-the-scenes look into the work of the Republican nominee’s strategy team, headed up by digital director Brad Parscale, Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner, and campaign CEO Steve Bannon.

    According to Parscale, a political novice who has spearheaded the campaign’s sprawling social media and online fundraising efforts from the research team’s San Antonio, Texas headquarters, the campaign spends $100,000 on surveys and pumps out sophisticated daily simulations of the election.

    “Nate Silver’s results have been similar to ours,” Parscale told Bloomberg, acknowledging that the campaign knows they’re lagging behind Hillary Clinton in the polls.

    Silver’s 538 website’s election forecast currently has Clinton with an 85.7 percent chance of winning the presidency, compared to 14.3 percent for Trump.

    Armed with this knowledge, the campaign has essentially given up on attracting new voters, instead working to turn key Demographic groups against Clinton and rally its hardcore base of younger, populist, rural supporters.

    “We have three major voter suppression operations under way,” an unnamed senior campaign official told Bloomberg.

    A focus on Clinton’s WikiLeaks e-mails is dedicated to turning away young white former supporters of Sen. Bernie Senders (I-VT); highlighting women who have accused Bill Clinton of sexual misconduct is aimed at undermining her appeal with young women; and her 1996 reference to some black gang members as “superpredators” is meant to suppress the vote among African American voters.

    Looking past Election Day, Trump’s senior staff wants to leverage the approximately 12 to 14 million e-mail addresses and other contact information they expect to have obtained from voters by November 8 to help shape the future of the GOP, Bloomberg reported.

    While the real estate mogul has insisted he does not want to start a TV network, this valuable voter information could be sold off to other campaigns, used to fund a new media venture, or deployed as the basis for another Trump presidential run in 2020.

    “What he’s built is the underlying apparatus for a political movement that’s going to propel us to victory on Nov. 8 and dominate Republican politics after that,” Bannon told Bloomberg.

    GOTV

  192. 192.

    hedgehog mobile

    October 27, 2016 at 9:20 am

    @PST: Cosign. Another Anderson voter here. I was a idjit.

  193. 193.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 27, 2016 at 9:22 am

    @raven: It’s an idea.

  194. 194.

    Jeffro

    October 27, 2016 at 9:23 am

    @hovercraft: that article is going to be the talk of the town today & tomorrow, not just for the voter suppression, but for confirmation that Bannon & Co’s real goal this cycle is the destruction of the GOP

    Somebody check in on Reince…

  195. 195.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 27, 2016 at 9:25 am

    @Kay: Stupid people watch Morning Ho? (present company excepted of course)

  196. 196.

    debit

    October 27, 2016 at 9:26 am

    @satby: Yikes! My house is 2200 square feet and I currently have 3 cats (1 a long term foster) plus the 2 dogs and can’t imagine adding a another animal.

    I’m so glad the fundraiser met its goal. Will you post pics of the kitties? Like I said, I can’t add another animal, but I do love looking at them (especially Maine Coons).

  197. 197.

    satby

    October 27, 2016 at 9:26 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: oh no, I am so sorry to hear that!

  198. 198.

    NobodySpecial

    October 27, 2016 at 9:26 am

    I’ll preface my remarks by noting that 1) I was too young to vote in 1980, and 2) John B. Anderson is both one of the nicest people I’ve ever met and definitely not a Republican plant to pull votes from Carter in 1980. He ran independently to try and pull Republicans away from Reagan, since he was and would stay for a few more decades decidedly in the Rockefeller Republican tradition. Carter was doomed no matter whom the Republicans ran that year, but Anderson absolutely had zero use for Ronnie Raygun and his Jihad Coalition. He was the polar opposite of Nader, and painting him with the Nader brush is a bit of stupidity that invites derision.

  199. 199.

    Woodrowfan

    October 27, 2016 at 9:27 am

    @Baud: Lizard Brains Matter!

  200. 200.

    comrade scott's agenda of rage

    October 27, 2016 at 9:28 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    Correct. Our Anderson votes had no effect on the eventual electoral outcome (at least a quick perusal of the 1980 election wikipedia entry suggest that if there were any effect, it would have been on the margins).

    I always remember, however, in 2000 when Nader ran of having a sense of deja vu all over again hoping that Nader voters would have the same effect Anderson voters had: none. At least I knew this Anderson voter wasn’t gonna contribute to making a collective national mistake. Little did we all know that St Ronnie was a piker when compared to the Bushies.

  201. 201.

    ruemara

    October 27, 2016 at 9:30 am

    @satby: I kinda want to come by your place and leave with a coat of kitties. Every pocket full of those fluff balls.

  202. 202.

    Fair Economist

    October 27, 2016 at 9:31 am

    @Another Scott:

    For cat hoarders, Toxoplasma gondii has been implicated in some cases, but I don’t know how much of that is just scaremongering.

    It has significant effects on humans, and it makes rodents actively seek out cats and enjoy the smell of cat pee. So, yeah, it’s a big suspect for cat hoarding. There are probably other causes too – there almost always are for behavioral issues – but I’ll bet it’s the leading driver.

  203. 203.

    NorthLeft12

    October 27, 2016 at 9:33 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    He’s Canadian, so he’s paid in Canadian Dollars.

    !!!!!!

    I never knew that David effing Brooks was born in Canada. I am shocked, embarrassed, and gobsmacked over this news. I apologize to the US that our education system did not do a better job “socializing” him during his formative years [he moved back to the US when he was 12]. I blame his parents.

    Really, this has totally blown my day. The good news is that he is no longer in Canada, so there is that.

  204. 204.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 27, 2016 at 9:35 am

    @satby: It’s a joke, a JOKE. Sometimes I forget that not everyone knows me like my wife does. Everytime the she asks what some Doc said, I tell her he/she said “I’m gonna die.”

  205. 205.

    Joel

    October 27, 2016 at 9:35 am

    @Cat48: Cook is just repeating what the polls say; the current meta-margin for the senate is D +1 according to Sam Wang, which would be the equivalent of a 6-7 seat pickup.

  206. 206.

    imonlylurking

    October 27, 2016 at 9:35 am

    I voted for Arne Carlson. I was trying to help the Minnesota Republican Party save itself. Now I get it-you can’t save people from themselves. I will never vote anything but Democratic Party again.

  207. 207.

    hovercraft

    October 27, 2016 at 9:36 am

    @Jeffro:
    Your link to the bloomberg article isn’t working try this one, LINK.

  208. 208.

    Hal

    October 27, 2016 at 9:36 am

    @hovercraft:

    or deployed as the basis for another Trump presidential run in 2020.

    I was going to dismiss this outright, but if the same primary voters show up in 2020 that did in 2016, Trump could go with another run. He could be the Republican Adlai Stevenson (at least in terms of losing big twice.)

  209. 209.

    satby

    October 27, 2016 at 9:39 am

    @rikyrah: thanks ?

  210. 210.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 27, 2016 at 9:39 am

    @ruemara: AAAAGGGHHHHH!!!! Cruella Deville!

  211. 211.

    hovercraft

    October 27, 2016 at 9:39 am

    @NorthLeft12:
    If you could order a recall for him and David Frum, we’d appreciate it. I know that Frum is now considered part of the sane sliver of the GOP, but he was instrumental in it’s decline, so please take him back.
    Thank you.

  212. 212.

    Kay

    October 27, 2016 at 9:40 am

    @JMG:

    Going all Trump all the time made CNN $100 million extra.

    I saw that too. CNN is appalling. They’re worse than MSNBC or FOX because they have a veneer of “newsiness” based on their past. The part I don’t get is how LONG bad work goes on. These pundits measure their careers in decades. One would think it would be livelier, more competitive, more churn.

  213. 213.

    Eolirin

    October 27, 2016 at 9:40 am

    @Baud: I’m not sure there’s been a presidential election in the last 30 years with this level of disparity in GOTV operations though. So if there’s any chance of a systemic miss in the polling this would be the election for it. If Hillary is even 2% higher than her polling data, thanks to that GOTV edge, it could flip quite a lot of things. And if the likely voter screens are off because they underestimated minority turn out or because there is lower than expected turnout with whites, it could be even bigger. We’ll see obviously, but this election is weird enough that if there is going to be a polling miss this is when it’s going to happen. And fortunately the biggest potential sources for error do seem to favor the dems.

  214. 214.

    satby

    October 27, 2016 at 9:41 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: I was responding to the amputation comment, not the going to die one… I got the second one was a joke.

  215. 215.

    Kay

    October 27, 2016 at 9:43 am

    @JMG:

    Also, I know this is “Leftist” thinking but have you seen how little local reporters are paid? They are basically poor people. WTF? Why is ONE Fox anchor making 20 million dollars and reporter for the Toledo Blade is talking about how she needs a roommate to cover expenses? She’s gotta be 30. They’re paying her like 15 dollars an hour.

  216. 216.

    Tripod

    October 27, 2016 at 9:44 am

    Stoller’s twitter feed is an endless stream of ATT Time Warner. He seems to lack the awareness that nobody else gives a shit.

    Bernie came out against the merger – it may or may not be a good idea, but they both seem to start from change resistance and then dress it up in the business regulatory enviroment.

    Bernie I get, AT@T means old school copper service monopoly, and it’s like discussing with my parents dropping wired phone and the newspaper.

    Stoller is also going on about the Penn Central failure – he seems not to get capital intensive industries and declining customer bases.

    Anyway, copper line service is dead dead dead. The choice is force the instituion to ride ‘er in, or let them capitalize some other market.

  217. 217.

    prob50

    October 27, 2016 at 9:45 am

    @Kay:

    Why is ONE Fox anchor making 20 million dollars and reporter for the Toledo Blade is talking about how she needs a roommate to cover expenses?

    I’m gonna take a guess: Better hair?

  218. 218.

    bystander

    October 27, 2016 at 9:45 am

    @Baud:

    Vague reporting means nothingburger.

    Also means lots to blather about. After all, it would be irresponsible not to speculate.

  219. 219.

    O. Felix Culpa

    October 27, 2016 at 9:46 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    It’s a joke, a JOKE.

    Phew! Relieved to hear that. Was trying to formulate an appropriate condolence message for the impending loss of an arm. Now a kick in the pants for scaring [us] seems more in order. j/k

    Will adjust joke-o-meter upwards going forward.

  220. 220.

    NorthLeft12

    October 27, 2016 at 9:46 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: I thought so. I know people share on here, but not too many advertise upcoming amputations as casually as that. Well done sir.

  221. 221.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 27, 2016 at 9:47 am

    @satby: The amputation one is a joke too. I always go to the worst possible scenario, then the reality doesn’t seem so bad. :-)

  222. 222.

    SFAW

    October 27, 2016 at 9:47 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    @OzarkHillbilly:

    It’s a joke, a JOKE.

    [Exhales] Good, I wasn’t sure.

    I mean, I thought it was, but, what with you being a hillbilly and all, and not having a sense of humor, there was some doubt. Although you have been pretty good about minimizing your “moonshine” and “Revenooers” posting.

  223. 223.

    satby

    October 27, 2016 at 9:48 am

    @Another Scott: Actually, I have way too much “stuff” for the same reasons you do probably: basic frugality; reduce, reuse,etc; I finally part with something and then I need it.
    But my stuff doesn’t need to go out five times a day or have litterboxes changed. And those things get overwhelming for hoarders quickly. I understand it’s a form of OCD.

  224. 224.

    burnspbesq

    October 27, 2016 at 9:49 am

    Interesting data on suppression of early voting in North Carolina

  225. 225.

    hovercraft

    October 27, 2016 at 9:49 am

    The Producers, starring Nathan Lane, Matthew Broderick , Jimmy Limmel and Cloris Leechman.
    Funny.

  226. 226.

    Jeffro

    October 27, 2016 at 9:49 am

    @hovercraft: Thanks!

  227. 227.

    Eolirin

    October 27, 2016 at 9:50 am

    @Tripod: ATT is a fairly significant ISP in certain markets, and they own DirectTV. Their core business is now cellphones besides. We do not need more consolidation of ISPs and media companies.

  228. 228.

    Kay

    October 27, 2016 at 9:51 am

    Joshua Green ‏@JoshuaGreen 3h3 hours ago
    6. Trump advisor: “We have three major voter-suppression operations under way,” including one targeting African-American voters:

    Christ almighty. If they wanted to turn out Democrats they couldn’t do a better job.

    Would someone explain to these cretins what “voter suppression” means? They seem to believe it’s a good thing and what they’re describing isn’t voter suppression but is stupid, desperate “messaging” from their idiot, over-paid managers.

  229. 229.

    satby

    October 27, 2016 at 9:53 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: well played.. you got more than me with that one!

    PS: super relieved!

  230. 230.

    Kay

    October 27, 2016 at 9:53 am

    @prob50:

    I like that she complains about her pay on Twitter. I feel it connects her to the common folk :)

    Also- they probably tell her to Tweet to promote the newspaper and instead she posts pictures of her falling-down rental house. She’s my fave.

  231. 231.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 27, 2016 at 9:54 am

    @satby: @O. Felix Culpa: @NorthLeft12: The real story is not nearly so dramatic. All is fine, tho I will continue to have pain in decreasing amounts for a year or so.

    Now where is the fun and drama in that?

  232. 232.

    Gin & Tonic

    October 27, 2016 at 9:54 am

    @Tripod:

    Bernie I get, AT@T means old school copper service monopoly,

    Only to people who haven’t read a business page in a quarter-century or so.

  233. 233.

    SFAW

    October 27, 2016 at 9:55 am

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Why is Brooks getting paid by the NYT versus some Rightwing rag?

    Not sure I see the difference between the two “alternatives.”

  234. 234.

    hovercraft

    October 27, 2016 at 9:55 am

    @Hal:
    I’d chip in 5 bucks for another run. Yes I would. Let’s start the re-match PAC, “You thought it was wild the first go round? This time there will be new and exciting plot twists, secret children, enemy agents, come one and all, the sequel makes the original look tame.”

  235. 235.

    Major Major Major Major

    October 27, 2016 at 9:56 am

    Millennials are the worst laziest most self-centered selfish generation of selfie-snapping lawn-standing free-stuff-wanting… eh, my snark is weak, it’s before 7am and my millennial ass needs to go get ready to work at a think tank cleaning up the messes y’all have left.

    @Baud: Some of us are!

  236. 236.

    SFAW

    October 27, 2016 at 9:57 am

    @Kay:

    Would someone explain to these cretins what “voter suppression” means?

    Bleib stumm!! Or are you trying to save Roger Stone and his merry band of ratfucking fascists from themselves?

  237. 237.

    O. Felix Culpa

    October 27, 2016 at 9:58 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Now where is the fun and drama in that?

    Incessant whining is always an option.

  238. 238.

    satby

    October 27, 2016 at 9:58 am

    @debit: I totally will post pictures. I know how much people love Maine Coons, and Ragdolls sound awesome. They’re supposed to be huge cats.

  239. 239.

    prob50

    October 27, 2016 at 10:00 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    The amputation one is a joke too.

    I’m really glad to hear that.

    The “death” one? Ehh…not so much

    j/k

    Back atcha’

  240. 240.

    Josie

    October 27, 2016 at 10:02 am

    @satby: Good morning. 1100 square feet is about the size of the house i am in right now. I have 2 cats and 2 dogs and cannot imagine fitting more in here. The cat box stench alone would be unbearable. You are a truly good person to help with this.

  241. 241.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 27, 2016 at 10:03 am

    @Major Major Major Major: That big stinky pile over in the corner? I had nothing to do with that! NOTHING I tell you! I’m innocent! It’s not my fault! The dog did it!

  242. 242.

    Major Major Major Major

    October 27, 2016 at 10:04 am

    Slate reviews a panel of undecided voters and finds that they’re all embarrassed Republicans.

    The group Hart selected was largely middle class, educated, and Republican-leaning—the kind of voters whom a generic Republican candidate, after eight years of a Democratic presidential administration and in a state that voted for Mitt Romney in 2012, would have already secured by now. Three described themselves as Democrats, six as Republicans, and three as independents; nine listed their ideology as “moderate,” while three were “somewhat conservative.” Five considered their political hero to be Ronald Reagan, while another two—the younger lean-conservatives in the room—pointed to George W. Bush. This would have been a 9-to-3 or 10-to-2 room for Republican presidential nominee John Kasich. Instead it was four reluctant Clinton-leaners; five gun-to-the-head, I-guess-for-the–Supreme Court Trumpers, and three who may well have mental breakdowns when they enter the voting booth on Nov. 8.

  243. 243.

    SFAW

    October 27, 2016 at 10:04 am

    @burnspbesq:

    That’s pretty depressing. Reminds me of Ohio in 2004, in a way.

    The sooner that those motherfuckers (i.e., county boards of elections) can be deported, the better off the country will be.

  244. 244.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 27, 2016 at 10:06 am

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    Incessant whining is always an option.

    I already do that. My wife points and laughs at me and the dog just ignores me.

  245. 245.

    prob50

    October 27, 2016 at 10:06 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Now where is the fun and drama in that?

    One of my late older brothers used to say, “Champagne for my real friends and real pain for my sham friends”.

  246. 246.

    prob50

    October 27, 2016 at 10:08 am

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Millennials are the worst laziest most self-centered selfish generation of selfie-snapping lawn-standing free-stuff-wanting

    Guess you never met my stepbrother, Chuck.

  247. 247.

    O. Felix Culpa

    October 27, 2016 at 10:09 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    My wife points and laughs at me and the dog just ignores me.

    Proof positive that life is rigged, RIGGED, I tells ya!

  248. 248.

    satby

    October 27, 2016 at 10:09 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: I have at different times ruptured the tendons in both my upper arms/shoulders. Both resulted in frozen shoulder even with therapy. I was told it takes about 18 months to resolve and regain full ROM without pain, and that turned out to be true for me. Since the second one was injured due to me shifting heavy stuff from the first side, it was just about three solid years I didn’t have full use of both arms. Just got fairly normal this year… in time to move furniture ?

  249. 249.

    hovercraft

    October 27, 2016 at 10:09 am

    @burnspbesq:

    Before we dive into the data, can I have a side conversation with the reporters reading this?

    Now, I get it, the national race for President is over, and there is a need to keep this race interesting. But the attention to that Bloomberg Poll yesterday was really kind of nuts. Hillary Clinton has led or been tied in the 14 most recent polls before that one, two of which came out yesterday that received virtually no coverage. So let’s keep all these polls in perspective.

    Back to everyone.

    Let’s talk about polling really quick.

    In 2012, the storyline was Obama couldn’t win Florida. In fact, Obama only led 4 of the last 15 polls before this day in the election. It was fair skepticism.

    But in this case, HRC has led 14 of the last 15. I don’t think anyone can argue that she is in a strong position to win.

    No one knows better to me how tough this state can be, and no one is going to blow anyone out here. But she is ahead. It is a fact. Now she has to turn out the vote.

    One last thing on that Bloomberg poll. They have the electorate at +3 Republican. 42-39. I don’t even know even the most optimistic GOP operative who agrees with that model.

    Today, among votes in, it is 41-41-18. If you take the Bloomberg Poll and do nothing but weigh the party breaks to 41-41-18, guess what, it shows Clinton with a 3-point lead – which is essentially what the average has been for a few weeks.

    He then breaks it down some of the key areas and counties, go see for yourself at steveschale.com He says there are good signs for both sides, but this weekend will show which side is getting it done.

  250. 250.

    dww44

    October 27, 2016 at 10:10 am

    @Eolirin: I agree;I have AT&T DSL but they have gotten slower than molasses in the last year. Despite their purchase of Direct TV our area is not in one of their target areas for spending monies on infrastructure to expand and increase our internet speed.

    Our only other option is the local cable company. We’ll probably switch soon. As an old though, I’m keeping my landline, though AT&T keeps upping the cost as more and more of the youngs continue to drop theirs. We’ve even got an old analog phone which comes in handy when there’s a power failure from trees falling on nearby lines.

  251. 251.

    Ruckus

    October 27, 2016 at 10:10 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:
    He wasn’t intending to be right, he just fell into it.

  252. 252.

    MomSense

    October 27, 2016 at 10:13 am

    @Kay:

    And this is why wage suppression by Walmart, fast food chains, and all the big box stores is so detrimental. It’s not just that people don’t read newspapers. There are some free local papers (supported by advertising) that are widely read in Maine because people can afford them and like seeing the local sports scores and honor rolls. The not free little papers are ridiculously expensive and if you have to work 80 hours a week just to afford rent you aren’t going to pay for a newspaper. We have a lot of people earning $8 an hour keeping wages for skilled workers and professionals really low.

    I met a woman working retail weekends at an outlet store who works as an administrative assistant at a small, prestigious university. She’s earning less than 40,000 and has to supplement her income in order to afford living in the town where she works. That is totally fucked up. If Walmart paid minimum $15 an hour the reporter in Toledo would earn $30 and I bet more people would be able to buy that newspaper.

  253. 253.

    CarolDuhart2

    October 27, 2016 at 10:14 am

    As a new Old, I’m thinking about bringing back my old land line for emergencies. I love my cell, but sometimes…

  254. 254.

    Eric U.

    October 27, 2016 at 10:15 am

    my first vote was for Jimmy Carter in ’76, and Reagan scared the crap out of me so I wasn’t going to vote for anyone other than Carter in ’80 either. I have to say I don’t really understand the appeal of third party, the logic just isn’t there. Although I do sorta understand the “after Hitler, then us” mentality. Just that the consequences are usually pretty dire, see the Greens with GWBush.

  255. 255.

    Brachiator

    October 27, 2016 at 10:15 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    .Nader made the exact same argument in 2000 — the matching funds, not a dime’s worth of difference, etc.

    This guy’s argument was not “no difference” but a strong aversion to any military intervention ever, phony war on drugs resulting in illegal incarceration, and an deference to an imperial presidency. How is seeking matching funds horse shit?

  256. 256.

    glory b

    October 27, 2016 at 10:15 am

    @Matt McIrvin: Scott Lemieux from lawyers guns and money (can’t link) has a good rebuttal to Matt Stoller’s piece. His is titled “The Golden Age of the Democratic Party (TM), the Populist Paradise of the Jim Crow South Edition.”

    He mentions that a primary way of holding the south was the fact that people of color were basically shut out of the benefits of the New Deal, and calls out Stoller for ignoring racial politics in the nostalgic view of the Dems.

  257. 257.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 27, 2016 at 10:17 am

    @satby:

    Just got fairly normal this year… in time to move furniture

    Timing is everything. ;-)

  258. 258.

    catclub

    October 27, 2016 at 10:18 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    Some Germans in 1932 wanted to heighten the contradictions too, nach Hitler uns

    Difference is that with 47% unemployment, they had some justification for being desperate. Today’s US does not have that reason to go insane.

  259. 259.

    Ruckus

    October 27, 2016 at 10:21 am

    @Kay:
    They are the common clay of the greasy old poop party. Only they know it. That means that they recognize that the gop is nuts but don’t recognize that they are too. They can’t vote for the dem and they know just enough better than to vote for the gop so they end up laying on that third rail.

  260. 260.

    MomSense

    October 27, 2016 at 10:22 am

    @Kay:

    Thank you for saying that. I’m seeing a lot of behavior that is really troubling. We also have a background check referendum question on the ballot so people are especially passionate and the gun people are paranoid on a good day.

  261. 261.

    germy

    October 27, 2016 at 10:23 am

    @catclub:

    Some Germans in 1932 wanted to heighten the contradictions too, nach Hitler uns

    Difference is that with 47% unemployment, they had some justification for being desperate. Today’s US does not have that reason to go insane.

    They should make a Reince Priebus biopic

  262. 262.

    O. Felix Culpa

    October 27, 2016 at 10:23 am

    @CarolDuhart2:

    As a new Old, I’m thinking about bringing back my old land line for emergencies. I love my cell, but sometimes…

    Also newly old…and newly living in the boonies with virtually no cell reception. (I had better connectivity when living and working in eastern and southern Africa, which has major economic development challenges for sure, but leapfrogged the old tech.) I now have a landline for the first time in years. My friends and family still need to be trained to dial it rather than my cell, but they’re beginning to learn from the crackle and dropped calls. Great to live in the most advanced country in the world!

  263. 263.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 27, 2016 at 10:23 am

    @CarolDuhart2: We have a land line for emergencies. Our cell service sucks, a good signal for us is really bad.

  264. 264.

    glory b

    October 27, 2016 at 10:23 am

    @Kay: You’re not LISTENING to them Kay! LISTENING will solve everything!

  265. 265.

    glory b

    October 27, 2016 at 10:25 am

    @Princess: She was the one that felt “bullied” by Clinton supporters.

  266. 266.

    catclub

    October 27, 2016 at 10:27 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    He said amputation might be our best option at this point.

    He gets paid the most for that one? What this ‘our’ kemo sabe?

    Yes, I saw that it was a joke.

  267. 267.

    germy

    October 27, 2016 at 10:28 am

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Slate reviews a panel of undecided voters and finds that they’re all embarrassed Republicans.

    Not surprising. Did this sneakiness begin with them being too embarrassed to defend George W? They were happy to defend the hell out of him (face to face, to pollsters, to neighbors, and trolling newspaper comments and liberal blogs) but it wasn’t long before they were all “Bush who?”

    And then I noticed my local GOP candidates stopped printing their affiliation on their mailers and yard signs. And then the “undecideds” started calling themselves INDEPENDENT.

    No matter how how “independent” they are, they still spout the same stupid RW talking points.

  268. 268.

    sam

    October 27, 2016 at 10:28 am

    The Yale (non) endorsement reminds me of something. My favorite law school professor at Penn was a Yale law school alumnus. He actually overlapped with Bill and Hillary, and since we were attending school in the 90s, of course everyone wanted to know if he knew them/what they were like. Professor wasn’t really a gossip, because he’s a good person, but he did say that they were both brilliant, that Bill had all the “personality”, but that he always thought Hillary was the smarter one of the two of them. Even back then, classmates thought one or both of them would end up somewhere significant, politically.

    That professor by the way? knows a little something about being married to a really smart politician.

  269. 269.

    catclub

    October 27, 2016 at 10:29 am

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    Great to live in the most advanced country in the world!

    I think telecoms and internet wise, that is South Korea.

  270. 270.

    The Moar You Know

    October 27, 2016 at 10:32 am

    I considered Nader. I didn’t and still don’t like Al Gore. He was that smarmy fucking kid in high school who was a kissass and had done his homework and always knew his shit. What I was later to come to understand as qualities of “good governance”. Then there was Bush, doing what, at the time, I considered utterly unthinkable; making fun of a woman who was going to die on death row. And Nader was saying some very true things about the corruption of the two-party system. But then Nader started in with his “they’re both just as bad” schtick, which was CLEARLY not the case – one was merely obnoxious and one was a cold-blooded psychopath – and so Gore got my CA vote and you all know how that worked out.

  271. 271.

    Chris

    October 27, 2016 at 10:33 am

    @prob50:

    Voting since 1972, never tempted to vote any way but DEM for Prez. I think I’ve voted for 1 or 2 Repugs in my life. LA Mayor Riordan for sure once. Can’t really recall a second but I might have. Never for legislative office, though. They’re just too toxic.

    Only started voting in 2008, but I fully expect that by the time I’m your age, I will be saying the same thing.

    It helps that there’s not a single election from 1932 onwards in which I wouldn’t have wanted to vote for the Democrat, that the GOP of today is the worst it’s ever been, that I don’t expect that to change any time soon, and that even if it does and the party somehow becomes respectable again, that’s still different from actually being better than the Democrats.

  272. 272.

    The Moar You Know

    October 27, 2016 at 10:36 am

    And then I noticed my local GOP candidates stopped printing their affiliation on their mailers and yard signs.

    @germy: Darryl Issa will not identify as a Republican in his home district. I’ve noticed that everywhere. You know who the Dem is, they tell you. The others won’t say.

    We’ve got a City Council candidate who I think is running as a stealth Republican. She’s covered her tracks well. Everyone seems to think she’s “Dem leaning” without providing a shred of evidence as to why that might be. I think she’s not.

  273. 273.

    Major Major Major Major

    October 27, 2016 at 10:36 am

    @germy: the article says several of them consider W their political hero.

  274. 274.

    catclub

    October 27, 2016 at 10:36 am

    @Kay:

    Christ almighty. If they wanted to turn out Democrats they couldn’t do a better job.

    The evidence that all these voter suppression techniques work, in the face of highly motivated voters who will NOT have their votes suppressed, is
    not clear to me. Given that turnout is much bigger for presidential years, it seems the best technique in the US would be to make elections more routine/boring/uninteresting.

  275. 275.

    catclub

    October 27, 2016 at 10:42 am

    @germy: “It’s okay, We can join the libertarians”

  276. 276.

    Chris

    October 27, 2016 at 10:43 am

    @Baud:

    I’m tired of the Dem hating culture. Whether it’s in the media or on the left.

    Lord, so much this.

    Just when I thought I’d gotten used to it from the right and center, here comes the left just to keep things interesting.

  277. 277.

    workworkwork

    October 27, 2016 at 10:50 am

    @comrade scott’s agenda of rage: My first vote (1976) was for Jimmy Carter.

    I hated the Reagan/Bush I era but when Dubya was appointed I remember thinking, “Hey, we survived twelve years of Reagan and Bush. How bad could it be?”

    Yikes. Never again. Fight for every last vote.

  278. 278.

    germy

    October 27, 2016 at 10:51 am

    @Major Major Major Major:

    the article says several of them consider W their political hero.

    Ah, now I see. . . So they’re idiots then.

  279. 279.

    glory b

    October 27, 2016 at 10:53 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Oh no! So sorry to hear that.

  280. 280.

    Chris

    October 27, 2016 at 10:54 am

    @Anya:

    Carl Bernstein on CNN spewing a bunch of nonsical stuff about how the Clintons are sleazy, money grupping and how they used the foundation to enrich themselves. The CNN anchor woman actually pushed back a tad and asked where’s the wrong doing in some Clinton insider fundraise for the Foundation while at the same time scheduling speaking gigs for Bill. He just spewed more nonsense about how the country feels about the Clintons and how can Trump win because of the wikileak stuff and Trump capitalizing on that.

    I really love how the entire “what’s wrong with the Clintons?” machine is just buck-passing all around. Ask voters who are suspicious of the Clintons why that’s so, and they’ll vaguely gesture at the media and say that there can’t be that much smoke without fire. Ask the media why the Clintons should be treated so suspiciously, and they’ll go with some version of “well, the voters don’t trust them.” And so on and so forth.

  281. 281.

    Major Major Major Major

    October 27, 2016 at 10:55 am

    @germy: no no they’re undecided voters who are sick of neoliberal economics and feel suffocated by the two party duopoly and the failure of bourgeois internationalism, but lack the language to articulate it. That’s what my friends say at least.

  282. 282.

    glory b

    October 27, 2016 at 10:57 am

    @debbie: The Pennsylvania GOP has petitioned for an emergency hearing asking to waive enforcement of the poll watcher regulations before election day.

    This may get to our Supreme Court.@OzarkHillbilly: They might get shot (according to their candidate)!

  283. 283.

    Miss Bianca

    October 27, 2016 at 11:04 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: I laughed, I’m loving it. What I loved particularly was that it showed a Republican as a *policy wonk*, for all love! We need more of those!

  284. 284.

    Miss Bianca

    October 27, 2016 at 11:11 am

    @Jeffro: To people who want to “shake things up” George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, Alexander Hamilton, Benjamin Franklin. These are examples of guys I would trust to “shake things up”. But Donald Trump? If you’re going to argue that he could be trusted with our political system as far as he could be trusted with your walking your teenage daughter across the street, well…I have to say that I’m not of your opinion.

  285. 285.

    Matt McIrvin

    October 27, 2016 at 11:12 am

    @glory b: Lemieux has been doing yeoman service of this type for a while now. It helps that he was a Bernie supporter in the primary, so he can’t be accused of being in the tank for The Establishment.

    Edit: Oh, yeah, and he’s got Erik Loomis tag-teaming it with him now. And Loomis really has the aggrieved-lefty cred to make it stick.

  286. 286.

    Matt McIrvin

    October 27, 2016 at 11:14 am

    @Chris: I’m lately hearing a lot of lefty “I’m voting for Hillary Clinton and I hate it so much I’m taking it out on you”.

  287. 287.

    NorthLeft12

    October 27, 2016 at 11:51 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: As long as it does not impact your commenting on here then all is good!

  288. 288.

    NorthLeft12

    October 27, 2016 at 12:03 pm

    @Chris:

    Ask voters who are suspicious of the Clintons why that’s so, and they’ll vaguely gesture at the media and say that there can’t be that much smoke without fire.

    DANG! I hate hearing that. I wonder if anyone thought to look at the accusers and realize that it is the same effing RWNJs peddling some new ginned up “scandal”.

  289. 289.

    glory b

    October 27, 2016 at 12:15 pm

    @Kay: My love/hate thing I have for/with Rachel Maddow kicks in when I hear her refer to Kellyanne Conway as a “nice lady.”

  290. 290.

    Brachiator

    October 27, 2016 at 1:03 pm

    @Chris:

    Ask voters who are suspicious of the Clintons why that’s so, and they’ll vaguely gesture at the media and say that there can’t be that much smoke without fire.

    But enough about the unfortunate Samsung Note 7 smartphones.

  291. 291.

    Origuy

    October 27, 2016 at 2:01 pm

    Since we’re confessing our sins, I was also an Anderson voter. Like Anne Laurie, my first presidential vote. Didn’t make that mistake again.

  292. 292.

    Patricia Brown

    October 27, 2016 at 3:28 pm

    @debbie: I would still check with the local PD and thank them for their attention to that polling place, and others that may fall prey to the worst kind of voter suppression and outright terrrorism.

  293. 293.

    The Lodger

    October 27, 2016 at 4:12 pm

    @raven: Me too. Fortunately the Outlook Clutter inbox is working as advertised.

  294. 294.

    debbie

    October 27, 2016 at 5:58 pm

    @Patricia Brown:

    I’m sure there will be a presence and I intend to thank them as I leave.

  295. 295.

    Ruckus

    October 27, 2016 at 6:56 pm

    @germy:

    Ah, now I see. . . So they’re idiots then.

    You guys get this wrong all the time. It’s “Ah, now I see… So they’re FUCKING idiots then.

  296. 296.

    PST

    October 27, 2016 at 7:33 pm

    @Another Scott:

    Voting for the maverick in the Primary is fine and good. But one needs to vote the Party in the General election.

    Back then, I was a Democrat. Now I’m a yellow dog Democrat and proud of it. But the times were different. In 1980, the party still had in office its share of disgusting racists who had not yet crossed the aisle, while there were still Republicans one could admire. That era was fast drawing to a close, however, in 1980.

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