Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Even though I know this is a bad idea, I’m off to do it anyway!

Second rate reporter says what?

Despite his magical powers, I don’t think Trump is thinking this through, to be honest.

If you’re pissed about Biden’s speech, he was talking about you.

You don’t get rid of your umbrella while it’s still raining.

Stamping your little feets and demanding that they see how important you are? Not working anymore.

People are complicated. Love is not.

Balloon Juice has never been a refuge for the linguistically delicate.

Jack be nimble, jack be quick, hurry up and indict this prick.

How can republicans represent us when they don’t trust women?

In short, I come down firmly on all sides of the issue.

Republicans in disarray!

We still have time to mess this up!

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

No Justins, No Peace

After dobbs, women are no longer free.

You know it’s bad when the Project 2025 people have to create training videos on “How To Be Normal”.

This isn’t Democrats spending madly. This is government catching up.

The problem people have with Biden’s age is the color of the VPs skin.

It’s not hopeless, and we’re not helpless.

Dear Washington Post, you are the darkness now.

It’s always darkest before the other shoe drops.

The US Supreme Court is on the ballot in november.

Democrats have delivered the Square Deal, the New Deal, the Fair Deal, and now… the Big Joe Biden Deal.

You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2016 / Here’s Another Election Open Thread

Reader Interactions

611Comments

  3. 3.

    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice

    Take an hour and a half off. When you come back, your blood pressure will be lower, California polls will have closed, and Hillary will be President-elect. Have faith.

  4. 4.

    Corner Stone

    He has to win 7 battleground states and also flip a blue state. How could this be possible?

  15. 15.

    amk

    Yet another horrible nightmare murkkka inflicts upon the rest of the world.

    fuck you murkan media.

  17. 17.

    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?

    Boy the pollsters were really off. Not sure why but the margins are much thinner for Clinton than the poles indicated.

  18. 18.

    MoxieM

    Time to spend some time on the internets investigating whether I can go live in Germany with my daughter…as if she wants her old Ma hanging around!

  22. 22.

    DH

    I haven’t come to peace with it. I can’t believe the stupidity and bigotry this shows the country containing. I guess I can always retire to Panama. The stock market should be fun tomorrow too

  23. 23.

    Anya

    Imma need pundits to retire the term “Reagan Democrats”. If those fuckers have been voting for republicans for decades then stop calling them Democrats.

  24. 24.

    Baud

    Even assuming we hang on to win, I can’t help but applaud white GOP voters for self-motivating themselves to vote.

  25. 25.

    The Dangerman

    Yeah, as an addendum to my last post downstairs, I think I’ll go get dinner and hope for better news when I get back; this is a gut punch right now. Watch the market just take a complete shit if Trump wins…

  30. 30.

    SiubhanDuinne

    I poll-watched until 9:00 p.m.

    Polls close at 7:00 in Georgia. What a day. Almost 120 miles on my car and I never left Gwinnett County. Observed at six or seven different locations; then my boiler room began calling, “Can you go here? Can you go there?”

    Finally got to my preferred watering hole and every TV that wasn’t showing some athletic event was tuned to FOX. I put a stop to that right smartish.

  35. 35.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    Paul Krugman ‏@paulkrugman 1m1 minute ago
    The Detroit Free Press has just called Michigan for HRC. If they’re right, we probably avoid the full nightmare.

  37. 37.

    Gindy51

    @DH: We have our broker on speed dial… sell everything and dump it in ultra super conservative shit. Barf….

  38. 38.

    scav

    Texas and some other states were weirdly blue for a while and I’m not sure how many states have over 50% of the precincts reporting. I’d say this is still a bit chaos phase, with some odd bumps and wiggles not unexpected. We already knew far too many of the neighbors were batshit.

  39. 39.

    Peale

    @Marina: yeah but three times as many for Johnson. Let’s not spend 4 years worrying about stein voters. Republican voters own this one.

  41. 41.

    pharniel

    @guachi:

    MI is Strongly conservative outside of a few select counties. It’s how we got Gov. Ricky twice.

    I’m going to play some Titanfall 2 and check back in an hour.

  42. 42.

    Karen

    My heart is thumping in my chest and I’m nauseous. Please tell me it’s not over. If it is over then Nate Silver’s reputation and Sam Wang’s reputation is tarnished.

  43. 43.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Georgia is too close to call, PA, to quote Giordano, counts its votes like slow molasses. Krugman says the Detroit Free Press has called MI for Clinton

    Still too early to panic

  47. 47.

    MJS

    If Trump wins, don’t blame Comey. Don’t blame the media. Blame your idiot fellow Americans, both those who voted for Trump and those who didn’t vote. They’re the idiots I will hold responsible for the destruction of this country, if a Trump presidency comes to pass.

  49. 49.

    amk

    @Baud: Yup. I have saying all along one lesson the dems and the left should learn from the rethugs. They fucking vote regardless of what a pos candidate they put before (R). This election would go down the worst one in the history.

  55. 55.

    T S

    I just want everyone of you to know this affects me and my family. I was kind of joking the previous days…challenging people who called me a pantswetter…but I have a mixed race family and I was personally invested from day one. This wasn’t about internet snark contests for me. This was real. F- all of you who insulted me. But…please, now that I’ve gotten that off my chest…let’s unite. Completely. Together. Please. We can’t slink away. Please. We have to do what we can. It’s real now.

  56. 56.

    Mai.naem.mobile

    If Trump wins I dont want the Senate. Theyre going to blame Obama for every fucking thing.but they will get an asskicking in 2018.

  57. 57.

    dr. bloor

    @Karen: Care to explain? Silver has been much more conservative in his predictions and talking about the unknowables. Wang said he’d eat a bug if Trump got 240 electoral votes. Whose reputation is on the line here?

  59. 59.

    patroclus

    I’m not freaking out yet. No blue state has flipped and it’s still early. But I AM getting a little more worried.

  61. 61.

    From Both Sides of the Pond

    I’m more concerned with finding the United States a therapist. If this election doesn’t show that the country has suffered the national equivalent of a psychotic break, what will? There is no longer any points of congruence between right and left regarding reality at all.

  63. 63.

    fuzz

    @Orogeny:

    I feel like we’re letting the “un-educated white” vote drag us down into their hole of heroin addiction and leeching off disability payments. They’re going to go down and take the whole place with them apparently.

  66. 66.

    p.a.

    Well the high school dropouts found someone to motivate them to vote. (To be fair the ones I know are heavily for Hillary.)

  68. 68.

    WarMunchkin

    This shit is not okay. We brought a full court press onto the field with a stellar organization, and this guy gets this far on bullshit?

  70. 70.

    Hilfy

    @Comrade Colette Collaboratrice: From your lips (or fingers) to FSM’s ears. But this is so hard, my neck and shoulders are stiff,my stomach hurts. This is so fraught with disappointment at my fellow Americans. Have turned off the tv, I’ve got a new sci-fi book to read. It will put me in a better world. I have hope.

  72. 72.

    scott (the other one)

    That fucking NYTimes interaction map just flipped for the first time to predicting a Trump.

    I am fucking terrified.

  78. 78.

    JMG

    Hate is as powerful as love. Sometimes it wins. We now live in a country headed for at least four years of horrific civil strife. White people are rejecting democracy in order to maintain their sense of superiority. I am ashamed, and apologize to all people of color. Our country, which has been so good to me in my long life, has betrayed itself.

  81. 81.

    Botsplainer

    @guachi:

    We fucked up and bailed out the auto industry.

    Fuck hard working white people, fuck the olds.

    Kill Medicare. Now. For all ages.

    Let white olds enjoy the pleasures of the free market in health care at age 85. I the bloodletting is going to happen, let them feel it hard.

  84. 84.

    Corner Stone

    Trump has more votes in all the states that are “too close to call”. All of them. What?

  87. 87.

    Ruckus

    @PsiFighter37:
    Motherfucking Goddamn Asshole Racist Misogynistic White People.

    I’ve said before, if we elect this asshole then he will bring about the end of this experiment in government that was started over 200 yrs ago because he is incapable of any thing other than full on racism as his one and only thought process and the idiot he expects to actually do the job of governing is worse than he is. Let’s hope for some level of sanity because if he is elected I know my SS and therefore about 1/2 my income will be gone pretty damn soon. I know the VA will budget will be slashed or eliminated, and there goes my healthcare. I’m fucked if he is elected. Completely, totally, absolutely fucked up the ass with sandpaper fucked.

  88. 88.

    Dmbeaster

    Its close. It was expected to be close. I was hoping for an early win with FL or NC, but not gonna happen. So its down to the basic blue walls. Looking good in those places.

  89. 89.

    Keith G

    Jesus folks….Hillary’s chances are still very good. Several very unlikely things still have to happen to give Trump a win.

  90. 90.

    fuzz

    @JMG:

    They’re rejecting EVERYTHING. This guy said he wants to leave NATO for fuck’s sake. The entire international order could be in for upheaval all because rural whites from the US didn’t like hearing about all the brown people and wanted their factory jobs back.

  94. 94.

    D58826

    Even iof she pulls it out in the end, it will be such a cliff hanger that the GOP won’t wait till Jan 20th to start impeachment,

  95. 95.

    Karen

    @dr. bloor: Because they forecasted that Hilary would win by a big margin.

    I had to take a cab yesterday and the driver was listening to Rush Limpdick who was predicting this was like Reagan’s election in 1980, and that Election Day show the hidden votes for Reagan.

    G-d I hope this isn’t true.

  97. 97.

    amk

    I knew the whites flipped out when a capable black man was elected. But I sure didn’t expect this much ODS.

    Peak wingnut has finally been achieved.

  100. 100.

    guachi

    I guess people saying “Clinton has Florida” are likely going to be really, really wrong.

    There it is. Michigan flipped at NYT.

    That’s all she wrote, folks.

  101. 101.

    Dadadadadadada

    @Corner Stone: The density effect. High-population-density areas take longer to count (due to having more votes), and those areas lean heavily Blue. It is to be expected that HRC will have a late surge and win many of those states.

  102. 102.

    Suzanne

    @Keith G: Please say more. Please. Please. I need to hear more of your dulcet tones.

    My anxiety level is really high right now.

  105. 105.

    Patricia Kayden

    @MoxieM: My Sister is wooing me back to Canada. I’m telling her that Secretary Clinton can still pull it off. Nervous but hopeful.

  106. 106.

    InternetDragons

    I don’t think Trump will win, but he could. And if he does – or even if the election is a nail-biting win for Clinton – it isn’t Comey’s fault. I know he’d be a convenient scapegoat, but it isn’t him.

    No matter who wins, I am hoping that when it’s all over, we Dems can regroup and open our minds to consider what came down and how we can best strategize for the future. I voted for Bernie in the primaries because I felt like he called out to those of us who have pretty much had it with the current status quo. I of course voted for Clinton today, and would have voted for any Democratic candidate. But I do think that both Sanders and Trump speak to segments of the electorate who aren’t really represented among ‘typical’ Democratic or Republican voters. I’ve felt, throughout this cycle, that Dems tended to be a tad too smugly confident re: Clinton, and maybe that’s what I’m seeing tonight. I’m just not sure.

    We need to do a better job of listening to those ‘atypical Democratic voter’ voices, perhaps. And GOTV will continue to be fundamentally important. Clinton is currently down in Florida by not that many votes.

    Here’s hoping we have a good finish tonight. Either way, we’ve got a lot of work ahead and we need to pull together.

  110. 110.

    Cermet

    small hands ass wipe may be president but we have a new thread!!! wow; nice. That makes things so much better … not.

  114. 114.

    Mike J

    @Karen:

    I had to take a cab yesterday and the driver was listening to Rush Limpdick who was predicting this was like Reagan’s election in 1980, and that Election Day show the hidden votes for Reagan.

    Reagan won 489 EVs in 1980. Reagan won NY, CA, WA, OR.

  115. 115.

    Mai.naem.mobile

    I tried to get this guy I know to go vote but he didnt see the difference between Trumpy and Clinton. I swear I wanted to shake him. I talked to two women who didnt like Clinton because you know Clinton sits there at the abortion doctors office and forcibly pulls the full formed baby from your body and strangles the baby with her own two hands dontcha know. Fucking morons.

  116. 116.

    guachi

    I predict before the night is over PA and WI flip, too. Lots of angry racist whites out there.

  117. 117.

    The Dangerman

    What I predicted last night about Trump wouldn’t file anything if he lost? Yeah, great call that was. This will be close enough, even if HRC wins, that Trump litigates this big league.

    No appetite for dinner. Tums looking good, however.

  119. 119.

    sdhays

    Hillary down by less than 3k in Virginia with lot of precincts still out. NoVa bringing it home.

  128. 128.

    guachi

    @Mike R: A dick?

    I’m trying to be realistic given the evidence I have at hand.

    I’d like to be wrong. I really, really would. But I don’t see any evidence so far that Clinton is going to win.

    Where are the ballots in IA, MI, FL, NC that show Clinton has a chance?

  130. 130.

    Bobby Thomson

    @sdhays: less than 3,000 votes now in VA with more than 10% of the precincts yet to report. This is looking like Warner in 2014 all over again.

  131. 131.

    BretH

    What makes me want to puke is the suppressed delight of the media fuckers at the closeness of the race which they has a huge part in creating.

  134. 134.

    Chris

    CNN: “This is going to be a long night. If you’re a junkie, it’s going to be a FUN night…”

    My God, I hate those grinning glorified court jesters SO FUCKING MUCH.

  135. 135.

    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?

    I want to believe. Thought we were cruising for a relatively easy win but yikes.

  138. 138.

    James E Powell

    @MJS:

    I do blame Comey. His intervention against one candidate may have swung the presidential election and determined the senate.

    Unlike most people I have read, I believe that was his intention.

  139. 139.

    Irony Abounds

    Fuck this country. Bunch of idiots. I also say fuck Democrats for picking the only friggin person that could lose to the the fucking asshat Trump. Time to stick our heads between our legs and kiss our asses goodbye. Just pathetic.

  140. 140.

    Cermet

    Both Florida and NC are lost and I didn’t expect those;however, Michigan!! and NH? This is very, very worrying.

  142. 142.

    Orogeny

    @fuzz: I’ve never seriously considered leaving America. Right now, my wife and I both have access to dual citizanship withe EU countries and we are considering it.

  146. 146.

    redshirt

    Let’s have some sanity here. What blue states does Clinton need to lose for Trump to win?

    Also, if she holds those blue states and takes VA, is it over?

  147. 147.

    Soylent Green

    What are we supposed to make of the NYT’s moving forecast of the winner? Now at 58% Trump.

  149. 149.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    538 Blog

    HARRY ENTEN 9:40 PM
    In Virginia, Clinton is now down by just 5,000 votes with 14 percent of precincts still remaining. Clinton still has a good chance of winning the state.

    If she wins Virginia and it’s true that she’s won MI, then it’s probably okay. Just okay, as Krugman said, avoiding the full nightmare but that’s about all. I hope.

  151. 151.

    Mike R

    No, I vote for dick, gloating isn’t a good look on anybody. It may turn out that way but you seem to be enjoying stirring the pot.

  153. 153.

    liberal

    @Mai.naem.mobile: if Trump wins, it’d really be more due to stupidity than racism.

    Yes, the racism is there, but there are limits to it’s explanatory power.

    If Trump wins, buy buy SS and Medicare. And all the stupid fucks who voted for him will be completely baffled.

  154. 154.

    GrandJury

    @Chris: The last thing I want to do is watch any media right now. Not CNN and definitely not Conway on MSNBC. Chuckles and Tweety must be having a blast.

  155. 155.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @guachi: Oh give it a rest already. The county the Detroit is in has reported less than 10% of it precincts. Most of Madison and Milwaukee haven’t reported either.

  158. 158.

    James E Powell

    Just got home. I’m here and I’m watching Twitter. I cannot and will not watch TV or cable people.

  160. 160.

    Adam L Silverman

    @guachi: Trump is outperforming Romney among white exurban and rural voters By significant numbers. In Volusia he’s outperformed Romney by 31,000. In Tampa, which is Hillsborough County he’s outperforming Romney by 153,000 votes.

  163. 163.

    PVDMichael

    Every state that is “too close to call” at 9:45 was “too close to call” at 9:45 in 2012 with three exceptions:
    Maine
    Pennsylvania
    Georgia

    So it’s early…

  166. 166.

    NR

    @Irony Abounds:

    I also say fuck Democrats for picking the only friggin person that could lose to the the fucking asshat Trump.

    Yep. This is what happens when a corrupt party establishment clears the primary field for its preferred candidate.

    We have two choices now–replace the people who run the Democratic party, or start a new one.

  169. 169.

    albertZ

    @different-church-lady: I hear you. A lot of people freaking out right now. No matter the outcome – this is but one battle out of many to come. In this blog community we allow a certain license to fret tonight – but tomorrow, whatever the outcome – there is clearly a lot of work that still needs to be done.

  170. 170.

    WaterGirl

    I’m freaking out too but this thing is not over. It’s not. There are lots of votes to still be counted. Let’s take this 10 minutes that’s left until more polls close at 10 ET and use it like the cubs used their short rainout in game 7. It’s super scary to think about a Trump win, but he hasn’t won yet.

    Deep breaths.

  171. 171.

    guachi

    @Omnes Omnibus: I assume the NYT takes that into account. Which is why Trump is up 5.3 now but is predicted to win MI by 1.1. There aren’t enough votes out there to make up the difference.

    It’s why I think PA will flip, too. All the upper midwest states are moving heavily to Trump from 2012. And PA is becoming an increasingly marginal state for the Dems.

  173. 173.

    cckids

    @Gindy51:

    We have our broker on speed dial… sell everything and dump it in ultra super conservative shit. Barf….

    Too late now. You needed to move it yesterday.

  174. 174.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Chris: CNN: “This is going to be a long night. If you’re a junkie, it’s going to be a FUN night…”

    They don’t get it: We’re “junkies” because we care about politics, Years ago, Josh Marshall explained the Village, focussing IIRC on Cokie Roberts, as people who really do view politics as a spectator sport and are confused and a little embarrassed by people who think policy actually has real life consequences.

  176. 176.

    Dmbeaster

    She will take VA. Trump lead almost entirely gone with significant blue counties left to count

  179. 179.

    D58826

    from, a twitter – Why is Trump doing well in Florida. Example 1: Pasco. Exurban county north of Tampa. Obama lost by 15K. HRC lost by 51K.

  181. 181.

    Ruckus

    @Patricia Kayden:
    You have room for an old white guy? I don’t eat much and I don’t even swear all that much, although some of my examples on the blog might make someone think otherwise.

  186. 186.

    Davebo

    My girlfriend from Scotland living in the US is appalled and freaking out! I try to explain it’s all going to be fine but she can’t believe Trump will carry Texas where we live.

    I ask her, have you ever been outside of Houston or Austin???

    Seriously, she’s disgusted that Trump could get a million votes nationwide.

    Still, despite my attempts to calm her, I’m very concerned.

  190. 190.

    MuckJagger

    Jesus, NYTimes tracker has Trump up to 59%

    There are apparently a *lot* of pissed-off people out there.

  193. 193.

    JordanRules

    All the trolls out and feelin froggy tonight I see.

    It will always be the wrong side of history.

  197. 197.

    albertZ

    And to think tomorrow I am donating blood to the Red Cross. Could I volunteer an extra pint or 2 and slip into a coma for a few months….?

  200. 200.

    Jesse

    @NR: I am so sick of your shit. The “Democratic Party establishment” is made up of people who cared enough to be *in* the Democratic Party.

  203. 203.

    D58826

    @NR: I really don’t see all of those Trump voters being willing to vote for Bernie. In a sane world, give what we know about Trump, a fire plug should be winning.

  204. 204.

    different-church-lady

    @albertZ:

    this is but one battle out of many to come.

    Naw. I think I’m done now. Too much shit has gone wrong for me for too many years, and my emotional support systems just keep getting thinner and thinner. I got nothing left in the tank. I’m too frayed.

  205. 205.

    Bobby Thomson

    Those of you still freaking out over the NYT dial – it’s designed to be hypersensitive to keep you on their page.

    But notice they haven’t updated since Clinton took the lead in Virginia.

  206. 206.

    Irony Abounds

    @sdhays: Virginia isn’t the problem. It’s Michigan and Pennsylvania and the fact that she will likely lose Florida and North Carolina.

  208. 208.

    WaterGirl

    @Mike J: I’m sorry. The timing makes it even more difficult. But they’ve gotten so good at the heart stuff these days that things look very hopeful for your mom.

  212. 212.

    eric

    Nate Cohn ✔ @Nate_Cohn
    We don’t project results, but we do believe that Clinton is overwhelmingly likely to win Virginia.

  213. 213.

    Another Scott

    @sdhays: I don’t know what may or may not be happening elsewhere, but there are too many people in NoVA who are dependent on the national government for their livelihoods. They remember the shut downs and the sequester and all the rest. Donnie never had a chance in Virginia, and very little actually changed.

    NotLarrySabato..

    Let’s all calm down and be patient.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  214. 214.

    p.a.

    @MuckJagger:

    190
    MuckJagger says:
    November 8, 2016 at 9:50 pm
    Jesus, NYTimes tracker has Trump up to 59%

    There are apparently a *lot* of pissed-off people out there.

    Some of their anger is legit. Their targets are wrong, wrong, wrong.

  215. 215.

    guachi

    @Mike in NC: Don’t blame me. I’m just passing on what the NYT is showing. It’s not like I’m some super-genius.

    I’m just reading a website predictor and trying to figure out where the votes for Clinton are supposed to come from. Do you know where?

  216. 216.

    Cermet

    Hillary is doing good in PA but Michigan is still bad. I am worrying again. Unlike in 2012, MI was already in the bad by now.

  217. 217.

    GrandJury

    So the story will probably be that the Blahs didn’t turn out. That was the difference between HRC and Obama. Even if it’s not true that will still be the story.

  220. 220.

    Gin & Tonic

    How is it that the NYT site has more votes (supposedly) counted from VA than the VA Board of Elections Web site does? VA BoE has Hillz up by 7k, NYT has Trump up by 13k, and shows a total of about 30k more votes cast.

  225. 225.

    PsiFighter37

    @p.a.: There are a lot of racist white people out there.

    Full stop.

    I don’t know this country if that is who people decide to put in charge.

  228. 228.

    GrandJury

    So I guess Nate is gonna end up looking like the hero in this. Sam Wang is gonna lose a lot of credibility as will a lot of other aggregators I think.

  229. 229.

    BobbyK

    You people just don’t get it. trump tapped into an economic insecurity that you just can’t accept or fathom. Trade kills jobs and he was able to tap into that. I don’t believe for a second he gives a shit about the average worker but he got people to believe him.

  231. 231.

    fuzz

    @GrandJury:

    Nah, it will be more that the white silent majority types turned out in numbers no one anticipated. They felt that ‘their’ country and ‘way of life’ was under attack and this is their attempt (and it looks like a successful one) at trying to get it back.

  237. 237.

    PVDMichael

    @GrandJury: I’m not going to try to link it… but google: “cnn presidential election night calls 1992-2012”

    It’s got a spreadsheet… just to remind us that sometimes it takes time to count votes…

    It’s gonna be a squeaker…

  239. 239.

    Gin & Tonic

    VA Board of elections site, which I am refreshing constantly, has HRC’s lead growing each time the count goes up. She’s now up by 15k with 90.47% in. Last refresh she was up by 7k.

  240. 240.

    GrandJury

    @fuzz: They are in for a shocking surprise. I doubt Trump makes it more than a few months before he is impeached for any number of things. Remember that most of the Repubs in the senate hate him too.

  241. 241.

    Monala

    @InternetDragons:

    We need to do a better job of listening to those ‘atypical Democratic voter’ voices, perhaps. And GOTV will continue to be fundamentally important. Clinton is currently down in Florida by not that many votes.

    And how exactly are Dems supposed to do that? Coming home, a Republican Senator – I think it was Tom Cotton -was being interviewed, and he was asked what Clinton should do is she is elected president but the House and Senate stay Republican. He said she has to adopt more Republican positions if she wants to get anything done, “because she moved too far to the left in this election cycle while trying to woo Bernie Sanders voters.”

    So, there you have it. The Republicans think she moved too far left, want her to become more conservative if they’ll let her do anything at all. What exactly do you expect the Democrats to do, and why the hell do so few people blame the Republicans for this country’s ails?!!!

  242. 242.

    guachi

    PA gonna flip on the NYT predictor in about 15 minutes, I think. WI will probably flip by 11 pm.

    I knew the upper midwest was a problem. It’s how there are so many Republican governors there. But I never thought it’d manifest in a Presidential election.

  243. 243.

    MazeDancer

    Upshot at NYTimes has a great interactive tool. That they link really poorly.

    Click here. Then scroll down to “1,024 Paths to the White House” and you can see how hope is very much alive.

  246. 246.

    Adam L Silverman

    @guachi: The Detroit Free Press has called Michigan for Clinton. Hold fast. Now that may not be correct, but it means its still too close to call.

  248. 248.

    James E Powell

    T@BobbyK:

    Trump tapped into an economic insecurity that you just can’t accept or fathom

    This bullshit. Trump tapped into the white racist rage that has been boiling since Obama won in 2008. Trump ran the first explicitly white supremacist campaign since Wallace in ’68.

    His entire sales pitch is and has been “Last Stand for White America” – We should not be surprised that it is popular.

  251. 251.

    sdhays

    @Gin & Tonic: Yeah, I think it’s all over in Virginia. Trump’s votes are all used up and what’s left are going to be heavy Democratic precincts. I’m very disappointed that it was this close, but Virginia’s not going to be an upset tonight.

  252. 252.

    cckids

    @dmsilev:

    Can’t blame them. It’s going to be ugly.

    My spouse is a financial adviser – he gets paid fees based on a % of client’s assets. We are too fucking old to keep having 30+% drops in our (already not great) income. Not to mention what Trump will do to SS/Medicare/ACA.

  253. 253.

    WaterGirl

    @Suzanne: There is no curse. I’m sorry you have had a shitty year. We just have to hang in for awhile longer tonight. I am trying to take deep breaths.

  256. 256.

    D58826

    @GrandJury: As long as Trump signs the GOP legislation to roll back the 20th century and is willing to put Jim Crow loving judges on the bench they will be quite happy having him the WH for however long it is before he starts WWIII.

  260. 260.

    p.a.

    @PsiFighter37: They were there in ’08 and ’12 too. Is it just tRump’s (and the MSM’s) normalization of it publically that has apparently increased their turnout? You can be a closet racist and go vote against a black man. Twice. Just saying there may be more to it, but that’s for sociologists to study.

  262. 262.

    Mnemosyne

    @liberal:

    Yes, the racism is there, but there are limits to it’s explanatory power.

    Trump is outperforming Romney with rural and exurban whites and you really think that’s not due to racism?

    Face it: Trump went full-on white supremacist and the majority of white people in this country loved it. Ate it up with a spoon and begged for more.

    You are looking at racism in full force and you’re desperately digging around for another explanation because you don’t want to face the fact that the majority of white people in this country are irredeemably racist and are happy to hurt themselves as long as they’re promised that they’ll get to punch the non-whites around them, too.

  266. 266.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    @BobbyK: Fuck that shit. If Trump wins, it’s a combination of thirty years of brutal smears on HRC and of white status anxiety. Not economic anxiety, status anxiety. Because if you ain’t better than a ni-, what good are you?

  268. 268.

    cckids

    @BretH:

    What makes me want to puke is the suppressed delight of the media fuckers at the closeness of the race which they has a huge part in creating.

    So much this. I’m hating all of them. And yet, can’t look away.

  269. 269.

    different-church-lady

    @albertZ: I appreciate it. Deeply. I’m holding it all in, because I don’t want to contribute to the panic and I don’t want to make it about me. Somehow BJ became my only emotional sanctuary the past three weeks. Things have been falling apart in my head for what seems like forever now.

  271. 271.

    guachi

    @Adam L Silverman: I’d like the NYT predictor to be really, really wrong. The margins are incredibly close. But I honestly don’t see it happening for Clinton.

    The Dems had massive early enthusiasm. Lots of early votes. But early votes count the same as late votes. (See CO and mail in ballots. Dems had early lead and Reps caught up day by day) I guess election day voting is turning out big for Trump.

  278. 278.

    Karen

    @GrandJury:

    So I guess Nate is gonna end up looking like the hero in this.

    How? He wasn’t right, unless I saw different and wrong figures yesterday.

  279. 279.

    Gavin

    When FoxNews calls VA for Clinton.. yeah, Clinton’s won VA.
    And MI.

    It’s not over till the man-bitch whines.

  280. 280.

    Miss Bianca

    @fuzz: and here’s what I wonder: why? Why would they think “their way of life” is under attack *now* more than, say, during PBO’s election campaigns and terms of office? People talk about racism, but let’s look at the elephant hiding under the wazzing donkey in the room: sexism. I would be crushed to think that we owed a President Trump – and the dumpster fire that a Trump presidency would entail – to the fact that people lost their shit over the thought that a *woman* might be elected POTUS. I would feel like we were even farther than I had imagined from the America I want to be part of.

  287. 287.

    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice

    I got a new laptop a while back but didn’t teleport everything over. Just installed a critical, previously neglected item. I had forgotten how awesome the pie filter is.

  289. 289.

    D58826

    @Mnemosyne: Economic insecurity and racism are not mutually exclusive. As the military says one is a force multiplier for the other.

    As far as the future if Trump wins I don’t think the democrats have anything to worry about in 2018 as the party will just be a few fragments in a few elitist states.

  290. 290.

    GrandJury

    @Karen: He was less wrong than most. All the polling was off though. Except some outliers. That Latimes outlier might end up looking like the most accurate.

  291. 291.

    Kay

    @Cermet:

    I’m worried about it too. I was afraid 2010 was sort of a harbinger with all the R governors and then the re-elects and it just looks bad. Democrats can’t replace all those states.

  292. 292.

    Cacti

    I’ll say it now. It’s not going to happen.

    President Trump. Ye gods. I’ve died and gone to hell.

  294. 294.

    different-church-lady

    @p.a.: I’M GONNA SHOVE A WHOLE BAG OF BUGS DOWN SAM WANG’S THROAT FOR PULLING HIS “99%” CRAP ON ME.

  297. 297.

    Cermet

    @different-church-lady: In all honestly, if small hands wins, we will all make it; ACA may be attacked but many good parts of it will be kept; yeah, the country goes back to 1860 but hey, lower class whites will discover the truth and a few will maybe change. The night isn’t over and if MI stays blue, it will turn out OK.

  299. 299.

    LurkerExtraordinaire

    I have a four year old daughter. She just might grow up in a country where, if she needs to have an abortion to save her life, she’d have to go to Canada. If she grows up and realizes she’s gay, she won’t be able to marry who she loves. She’s Latina….God only knows what will happen because of that. This shit isn’t funny, and hasn’t been funny to me, ever. The Supreme Court, and with it women’s rights, gay rights, voting rights will be gone, possibly forever. I thought I couldn’t be more ashamed of my country when W was in office. I was wrong. So horribly wrong. I think I really need to move back home to New York. Or to hubby’s home state of California. A place where people are relatively safe.

  300. 300.

    albertZ

    @different-church-lady:

    Somehow BJ became my only emotional sanctuary the past three weeks.

    You and me both. Depending on how things go, this sanctuary may become even more important. But the outcome is out of our hands now.

  301. 301.

    Aleta

    Decreased polling places. With no information or deep understanding I also wonder if possible some tampering ?

    Can’t bear this and can’t accept.

  303. 303.

    Hill Dweller

    @guachi: We got the point the first 3 times you predicted a Hillary loss. You’re obviously just antagonizing people at this point.

  308. 308.

    Irony Abounds

    Michigan’s gone folks, and Pennsylvania is likely to follow. Redneck America has prevailed. Unless somehow Clinton pulls out Arizona, which would be delicious, Clinton is toast. Kiss Obamacare goodbye. Kiss Roe v Wade goodbye. Kiss America as we know it goodbye. And your 401(k) is toast as well.

  312. 312.

    MisterForkbeard

    Good news: it looks like my daughter will be born tonight. So even if the worst happens electorally ,there are bright beautiful things still happening.

  313. 313.

    Gavin

    Stay away from that NYT page.. its predictions are way off and not updated. Still shows VA for Trump.

    Just google “[state name] election results” and you get the AP numbers, updated nearly to the minute.

  314. 314.

    different-church-lady

    @Cermet: You’ll make it. It feels like I won’t.

    Like I said, I’m trying to not make this about me. And I might be failing.

  316. 316.

    Mary G

    Well, I went off and watched this week’s episode of Westworld, hoping to find things better. Disappointed.

  321. 321.

    Felonius Monk

    @MuckJagger:

    There are apparently a *lot* of pissed-off people out there

    I wonder how “happy” they will be when they find out that Trump can’t bring back jobs and that wall? What wall? They’ll want his head on a pike sooner rather than later.

  322. 322.

    Ruckus

    @Another Scott:
    Calm down and be patient?
    How does one do that when one’s life is on the line?
    How does one do that when one’s life for the last 20+ yrs has been shit that is finally somewhat working out but that may change completely in the next few months?
    I’m too old to start over or work 60 hrs a week for shit wages if there is even work.
    And I’m not anywhere near the only one, on this blog or in meatspace.

  323. 323.

    Botsplainer

    “They feel left out” is the current media metric.

    Fuck them.

    It’s goddamned BREXIT. Except with this one, we don’t have a court system capable of putting on the brakes.

  326. 326.

    MuckJagger

    A lot of people won’t accept Clinton as legit even if she wins — with Trump leading most of the night, anything possible scenario that would put Clinton over the top would involve late returns from urban areas — which, of course is where all the “voter fraud” occurs.

  328. 328.

    LurkerExtraordinaire

    @Cermet: no, we won’t all make it. If things get worse for racist white folks, they will just place more blame on women, gays, POC, liberals.

  329. 329.

    cmorenc

    Hillary gets to 270 exactly, even against a max Trumpstorm, with:
    Vt, Mass, RI, Ct, Me(4/5) Vt, NY, Penn, NJ, Del, Md, Va, Mi, Ill, Wi, Mn, Co, NM, Nv, Cal, Or, and Wa.
    WITHOUT WINNING ANY OF:
    Fla, NC, Ga, Oh, or NH (or Ne’s Omaha CD).

    So relax peeps, so long as Michigan holds, we’re going to be all right by the skin of our butt.

  330. 330.

    Kay

    @Botsplainer:

    Oh, no one wanted her to win more than I do. I’m not defending them.

    The blue counties in MI still aren’t in but he has huge margins in rural and western counties.

    I’m shocked he’s winning. It’s horrifying.

  334. 334.

    PeakVT

    Without FL this does not look good. HRC needs some combination of WI, MI, IA, and NH, but right 3 of those are red.

  336. 336.

    Irony Abounds

    @redshirt: his percentage doesn’t change until a state is called. Doesn’t take into account the low probability that Clinton will win the too close to call states.

  337. 337.

    Another Scott

    @Ruckus: Hillary didn’t need Florida to win. Similarly with many other states that people are panicking about.

    Take a deep breath. :-)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  338. 338.

    Eric U.

    @BobbyK: I think this is right. I know people that really shouldn’t vote trump that did. They are afraid of Muslims and there is something about trade. Plus they are voting for team white

  340. 340.

    BobbyK

    Now on ABC 2 counties Michigan, Obama won by a LOT are now voting for trump, so again tell me the people that voted for Obama in 2012 and are now voting for trump a racist asshole rednecks.

    ABC is saying if trump wins Michigan, he’s president.

  342. 342.

    SenyorDave

    She does seem to have a possible avenue in NC. Only 43% of Charlotte is in, and she’s up there by 115k. But MI looks very bad. Are the people so f’in stupid, Obama saved the auto industry there?

  343. 343.

    Bobby Thomson

    Trump up 3% in Wayne County with 11% in? That’s fucking Russian hacking. If you’ve ever been to Wayne County, you know that’s complete and total bullshit.

    The Democratic primary was the dry run. The results were identical state-wide, and additional counties coming in didn’t change anything.

  344. 344.

    Irony Abounds

    America’s fate determined by less educated white folks, how comforting. I hate this country.

  345. 345.

    Botsplainer

    @Irony Abounds:

    Michigan’s gone folks, and Pennsylvania is likely to follow. Redneck America has prevailed. Unless somehow Clinton pulls out Arizona, which would be delicious, Clinton is toast. Kiss Obamacare goodbye. Kiss Roe v Wade goodbye. Kiss America as we know it goodbye. And your 401(k) is toast as well.

    But on the good side, old white guys can sneer at coloreds and “elites” again.

  349. 349.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    @Cermet:

    In all honestly, if small hands wins, we will all make it

    No, I don’t think we do. This is pushing all of my fucking Gilead buttons.

  351. 351.

    MuckJagger

    @Felonius Monk:

    Yeah, exactly — I’d never vote for the guy under any circumstances, but I have to admit it would be awfully interesting to watch that juggling act where he puts through his tax cut, rebuilds the military, fixes America’s infrastructure *and* brings the jobs back to the Rust Belt/Midwest.

    I’m a government employee, so I’m facing coming to work every morning and looking at his mug in the lobby.

  352. 352.

    Kay

    @BobbyK:

    It’s true.

    top Clinton strategist: “we need PA, MI, and either NV or NH. Feel good about that”

    I don’t know why they feel good about that. MI looks terrible and I’m also worried about WI.

  353. 353.

    GrandJury

    @cmorenc: That’s still a loss as far as I’m concerned. Embolden Republicans will be completely unmanageable. So Obama obstruction was nothing compared to this. That is assuming if (and it’s still a very big IF) she wins.

    Gonna be real hard getting a liberal SCOTUS nominated for starters.

  358. 358.

    Cacti

    @cmorenc:

    So relax peeps, so long as Michigan holds, we’re going to be all right by the skin of our butt.

    Trump is up fairly bigly in Michigan, is he not?

  359. 359.

    some guy

    tonight we see the true face of the GOP. dam’s post about exurban voter turnout tells us so much about the status quo in FL They did a better job of motivating theeir untapped voters.

  360. 360.

    Cermet

    @BobbyK: Your utter stupidity is showing; trade deals have been shown in all major studies to increase the economy. Your first point, a liar can convince stupid people to sell their souls is correct but don’t talk about what you apparently don’t know shit about.

  361. 361.

    patroclus

    Burr wins in NC – the Senate is probably gone or, at best, if Missouri, Wisconsin and NH come through, tied.

  367. 367.

    fuzz

    @Miss Bianca:

    that’s absolutely a huge part of it. I worked in an office until September where my boss and some clients- who were never going to vote dem anyway but still- said they didn’t like Hillary’s voice, gushed over how hot Melania was even after the plagarism thing, thought Trump’s sexual history was great but then criticized Clinton for the same thing.

    Much of this country is fairly wretched.

  372. 372.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Gavin: And we can hope the D “Establishment” has learned its lesson about throwing away the working class by then.

    You have that backwards.

  373. 373.

    Mnemosyne

    @Miss Bianca:

    Why would they think “their way of life” is under attack *now* more than, say, during PBO’s election campaigns and terms of office? People talk about racism, but let’s look at the elephant hiding under the wazzing donkey in the room: sexism.

    Yep. It’s the one-two punch. First there was a black man in charge, and that was bad, but at least he had a peni$. Now there would be a woman in charge.

    Sexism has been way, way downplayed throughout this entire process.

  375. 375.

    Botsplainer

    Can’t wait to see these toolbags on TV start sucking up to the Trump family. Knee pads will be necessary.

  376. 376.

    Hob

    Not that anyone cares, but here’s one lurker who can’t take the trolling and the freakouts any more and will not be reading these threads for the rest of the night. Cheers to the rest of you, I did enjoy reading your comments. It’s gonna be OK.

  378. 378.

    guachi

    The problem for Dems is that so many of their states are barely Dem. So a little shift to the Republicans takes down a whole slew of states. Like we are seeing now.

  380. 380.

    Caravelle

    To all the people recommending the Upshot and the 1024 ways to the election as being reassuring – note that these put Michigan in the “Dem” column, meaning the whole flowchart assumes that Clinton takes Michigan before it even starts, meaning that if she doesn’t it will be very misleading.

    I hope that the results in Michigan so far are biased towards Trump and that patroclus is right that it’s already turning back. (just saw an interview with the governor of Michigan saying she thought it was close but she felt confident that Hillary would carry the state, but isn’t it the kind of thing they always say at this point anyway…)

  382. 382.

    amk

    Looks like entire west coast and east coast won’t matter any more. The assholes in the middle and the south made this nightmare come alive.

  386. 386.

    Jilli Brown

    @Anya: An ignorant racist clown that never presented one serious policy proposal to his scampaign. Sweet jeebus…

  387. 387.

    Cermet

    Biden or O-Mallory might have done better but the racist element runs deep in this country. This is ugly and not looking good.

  388. 388.

    MuckJagger

    Let’s be “healthily paranoid” and say for the sake of argument there is hacking going on. You really wouldn’t need to hack everywhere — you just follow the results for a while, and if they’re favorable then you really only need to hack *one* state.

  391. 391.

    OGLiberal

    Here’s my message to the country this evening even if Clinton ekes out a win.

    Eff you, eff all you racist folks, eff all you racist folks who hide your racism in something like “trade”, eff you and die. I don’t care about you because you hate me. I hate you. Eff it – you all suck. Eff you. And while my little kids would never say that – I will say eff you on their behalf. I hate all of you and I don’t care about how you feel. Eff you!

  392. 392.

    Corner Stone

    @Adam L Silverman: I honestly don’t either. This is really kind of like an Inception level event.
    I called my dad after Kerry lost in 2004 and wondered where we lived anymore. This is like 1000 times that feeling.

  393. 393.

    guachi

    On the other hand, because there are so many barely Dem states there is a chance a whole bunch can flip right back to Clinton, too.

    Like a 1% swing to Clinton will move five states.

  394. 394.

    cckids

    @Cermet: We will not all make it. Some of us have been punched in the face repeatedly by economic/health care crises, I, for one, just don’t have the strength or will to climb out of another hole. Especially in a country that would elect Donald Fucking Trump.

  397. 397.

    Cacti

    NAFTA strangled the rust belt, now the rust belt is set to shiv the Clinton political dynasty.

    Ironic.

  401. 401.

    Kathleen

    Just saw this on Twitter – don’t know anything about the tweeter:

    Ok. Broward has 250,000 votes outstanding. Hillary will win 70% of those so that’s 175,000 – she’s losing by 133,000, so she wins the state

  404. 404.

    GregB

    If Trump pulls this out, America becomes a very dangerous place for a large mumber of minorities.

    It is sickening.

  406. 406.

    JMG

    The country I grew up in, that believed in progress (even Reagan did, in his way) and inclusion, is dead. People full of hate and rage run it now. Times will get very dark. I don’t think minorities are going to give up what they’ve won without a fight. I think the assholes of the Trump movement will run amok. Since he has no idea what he’s doing, catastrophes will follow in short order. War, recession, racial and religious strife. We’ll be the Balkans in the ’90s, but with nukes.
    My country is gone, and I don’t know what to do. My daughter just called me from France where she worked. I couldn’t comfort her. I can’t comfort myself. I am very glad she lives there now.

  407. 407.

    Trentrunner

    With 99% reporting in Florida, Clinton trails Trump by 135,296 votes.

    Gary Johnson + Jill Stein = 266,208

  412. 412.

    albertZ

    @redshirt:

    This is Russian hacking right?

    Haven’t you been reading Adam Silverman’s recent posts? The “hacking” already happened. This is merely the outcome – no hacking required.

  413. 413.

    SFAW

    @Mai.naem.mobile:

    If Trump wins I dont want the Senate. Theyre going to blame Obama for every fucking thing.but they will get an asskicking in 2018.

    Who will get an “asskicking in 2018”? It sure as hell won’t be the Rethugs. Yeah, yeah, I know about midterms. But the Rethugs will blame EVERYTHING on Obama the Jews the Demonrats, and the same morons who elected Trump (if that comes about) will still be voting their hatred/racism.

  414. 414.

    Lizzy L

    If it happens, we will survive. We have been through worse. And I mean all of us who voted for Clinton, or who supported Bernie. We will need to support each other through this.

  419. 419.

    patroclus

    @WaterGirl: It depends on who is V-P, who would break the tie. If it’s Pence, it’s just as bad as 49-51. But that assumes NH, Missouri and Wisconsin, all of which are still very close. It could be 47-53 and Trump in the WH.

  420. 420.

    eric

    kos: So Trump leads in both Wisconsin and Michigan, but Dane (Madison) and Milwaukee barely reporting, while the same in Flint and Detroit.

  421. 421.

    James E Powell

    @Corner Stone:

    I called my dad after Kerry lost in 2004 and wondered where we lived anymore. This is like 1000 times that feeling.

    Kerry’s loss hurt, but I more or less expected it. This, though. This is beyond anything I ever imagined.

  423. 423.

    glory b

    Clinton projected to win VA, still waiting for Broward to finish, according to Sirius progressive.

  424. 424.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @MisterForkbeard:

    Congratulations to you and your spouse/partner; welcome to your daughter (along with pre-emptive apologies); and thank you very much for the reminder.

    Please let us know when things happen :-)

  426. 426.

    dmsilev

    @PeakVT:

    So why didn’t we see this coming? Were we caught in a bubble of our own making somehow?

    We all saw the polls. They were systematically wrong.

  428. 428.

    Irony Abounds

    People, it’s over. And I do blame the Democrats for nominating Hillary. She was a terrible choice (not that Bernie would have been much better). The only good that may come out of this election, and there really is virtually zero good to come out of this, is that perhaps the Dems will find some quality young talent and finally ditch the Clintons and all the old guard.

  429. 429.

    Cermet

    Virginia was too damn close; NH looks to be a lost. Without WI, MI and Minn or even NV, game over. Need to see more blue. No longer worried; wish I was …just too close everywhere and always on the wrong side. Damn.

  433. 433.

    chopper

    @PeakVT:

    we followed the polls, which apparently weren’t right.

    as long as hilz wins MI she’s got it. it’ll be close as hell, but okay.

  437. 437.

    BobbyK

    @Cermet: Your stupidity is showing. JFC the trade deals KILL jobs and peopled in the mid west experienced this first hand. GDP is utterly different from jobs, a small minority of extremely rich people making enormous amounts of money can increase GDP while hundreds of thousands of regular workers lose their jobs.

  439. 439.

    SenyorDave

    @Kathleen: Completely incorrect. 72% of the state voted by mail. There’s not enought votes left in Broward. She’ll close, but not nearly enough

  440. 440.

    Irony Abounds

    @redshirt: That something else is that this country is no longer a liberal bastion in the world, it is a backward, racist, sexist hotbed.

  441. 441.

    different-church-lady

    I need to step away from here, but I’m afraid of what it will be like if I do.

    I’m sorry. I’m not doing well. This isn’t about me.

  443. 443.

    Splitting Image

    @Kay:

    I don’t know why they feel good about that. MI looks terrible and I’m also worried about WI.

    Waukesha County looks like it is in early for a change, and is accounting for Trump’s lead in Wisconsin. Clinton should still pull it out.

  445. 445.

    Ruckus

    @LurkerExtraordinaire:
    The reality is that yes CA or NY are better. But without that federal safety nets of SS, Medicare, the ACA, the VA, and so on we wouldn’t be a whole lot better. We are a nation, not a collection of separate states. And yet if the asshole wins we really are saying that the south won the civil war, that racism is OK, that strip mining our financial resources is OK, that women should be barefoot and pregnant, that old people can fuck off and die, that Russia and China have the right type of government, that police are the law, that pollution and global warming is a myth, that rich people are better than you and me. And I bet others can list a lot more.

  452. 452.

    MuckJagger

    I’ve got a *ton* of friends back home in Maine who void for Trump — don’t forget, this is a state that voted in Paul LePage twice.

    I don’t believe they’re *all* racist, but I suppose they could be. That seems to be a stretch.

    One of my poker buddies told me a while ago that he voted for LePage not because he agreed with everything he said, but because LePage was viewed as honest, and speaking his mind — not trying to be everything to everybody.

    Doesn’t matter that neither party’s state representatives want to work with the guy — he “tells the truth.”

  453. 453.

    James E Powell

    I think misogyny was way underrated. And that includes misogyny among women.

    I agree. And ultimately I think it mattered way more than the racism because the racists were already voting for Republicans.

    Strictly anecdata, but I know quite a few D and D leaning women who just absolutely despise HRC. And this goes back to when she was First Lady. Not related to any emails, etc.

  454. 454.

    Cermet

    @Mnemosyne:Yeah; got me there. Damn, can’t get away with anything with you people. Well, it ain’t over yet and until MI or another critical Blue state is lost, we still have the advantage.

  456. 456.

    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?

    @PeakVT: I don’t think all of us were living in a bubble but the polls were pretty optimistic and moving late toward Clinton. You don’t have to be in bubble to trust the polls.

  457. 457.

    Suzanne

    @gogol’s wife: Anyone who ever doubted that women are still considered to be absolute trash in this country hasn’t been paying attention.

    My God, this is happening. This is a nightmare.

  458. 458.

    OGLiberal

    Here’s my message to the country this evening even if Clinton ekes out a win.

    Eff you, eff all you racist folks, eff all you racist folks who hide your racism in something like “trade”, eff you and die. I don’t care about you because you hate me. I hate you. Eff it – you all suck. Eff you. And while my little kids would never say that – I will say eff you on their behalf. I hate all of you and I3 don’t care about how you feel. Eff you!

  461. 461.

    Kay

    @gogol’s wife:

    I do too. She’s REALLY under-performing Obama in the midwest. He was able to get ex-urban voters, twice. If it were straight race I don’t think that would be true. She’s losing a lot of people who voted for Obama twice in Ohio and Michigan and Wisconsin.

  464. 464.

    Hill Dweller

    @Irony Abounds: Obama was “quality young talent”, but Dems ran from him for most of his term, and Republicans tried to destroy him from day one. Despite being a really good President, the country is going to elect a racist reality star, who didn’t even bother putting forward a serious policy proposal.

  465. 465.

    Chris

    @SFAW:

    And if Repubs win, vote suppression goes into overdrive, especially with a new Supreme Court. Let’s not forget that,

  467. 467.

    Cermet

    @JMG: Damn it. It isn’t over. Yeah, I’m worried but if MI/WI and MINN all fall in line, Hillary wins. Have faith.

  469. 469.

    D58826

    @SFAW: Senate map favors GOP in 2018 so even if the D’s pull it out tonight, the Senate will flip back in 2018. The House will be GOP until 2030 since the redistricting will be based on 2020 census and GOP will control most states thru 2020..

  471. 471.

    Mnemosyne

    @Irony Abounds:

    Yes, Donald Trump ran an openly white supremacist election, complete with Jew-baiting and telling white people that their world would be over if the Democrats won, and the problem was Hillary.

    I’m sorry, but the problem is white people, who were so fucking racist and sexist that they ran in droves to the guy who promised them that they could stomp on the n*ggers, ragheads, and Jews with no consequences again.

  472. 472.

    Adam L Silverman

    @cmorenc: Remember WA has a Bernie dead ender as a Democratic elector who has already announced he’ll pay the $1,000 penalty rather than vote for Clinton. And they have another Democratic elector who refuses to commit to vote for Clinton. So 270 including Washington state won’t cut it. She needs at least 272.

  474. 474.

    BobbyK

    @Kay: Yeah, Clinton ain’t winning Michigan. Don’t forget, Bernie killed Clinton in Michigan and trump parroted Bernie’s message. Again I don’t believe for a second trump cares about regular people, but he got enough people to believe him. One of the pundits on ABC talked about how a union worker told a reporter all the union leaders were voting Clinton but the rank and file were voting trump.

  478. 478.

    Cermet

    @BobbyK:Not wrong; sure jobs are lost and they never would exist anyway because others work for far less. All studies show that the net economy does much better. That is a fact.

  481. 481.

    patroclus

    @BlueDWarrior: Flipping channels and watching the raw vote when it flashes on the screen. My latest was CNN, but I’m also checking Bloomberg, MSNBC, PBS, Fox and BBC.

  484. 484.

    Bobby Thomson

    @Kathleen:

    Ok. Broward has 250,000 votes outstanding. Hillary will win 70% of those so that’s 175,000 – she’s losing by 133,000, so she wins the state

    Forgot to count the other 75,000 votes that Trump gets under that scenario. It’s the delta of 100,000 that matters. Still another 33,000 to make up somewhere.

  485. 485.

    Irony Abounds

    @Hill Dweller: Unfortunately Obama is no longer able to run, so name another quality young talent among the Democrats, or even quality fresh talent, no matter what age. The Dems went and nominated someone with such baggage that she is losing to a hack, racist, sexist monster.

  487. 487.

    different-church-lady

    @Bumper: Uhh… you guys? I mean… I’m just not making any sense right now.

    I hate hate HATE leaning on people for emotional support.

    I’m going to make an appointment in the morning.

  488. 488.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @BobbyK: One of the pundits on ABC talked about how a union worker told a reporter all the union leaders were voting Clinton but the rank and file were voting trump.

    union members also supported Scott Walker in WI, and Portman and Kasich in OH. All free trade advocates.

  492. 492.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    Just bought a pack of cigarettes, because dying of cancer looks pretty good compared to living in dystopia.

  493. 493.

    BobbyK

    @Gator90: The pundits on ABC have been saying for a while Michigan could give the election to trump. It looks like he’s killing it in Michigan so far.

  495. 495.

    Mnemosyne

    @Kay:

    I think a lot of non-religious people don’t understand how strong the whole evangelical teaching about women not having authority over men really is. It even infects people who never go to church.

  500. 500.

    D58826

    @Irony Abounds:

    quality young talent among the Democrats

    After the wipe outs in 2010 and 2014 thyere is no bench. TGhe young talent comes up from the states and most of them are red.

  503. 503.

    hueyplong

    @Kay: “I’m sick about it too. My daughter is horribly upset. She feels the country is misogynist.”

    Really need Michigan, but even if Hillary gets it and manages to win, I think your daughter is correct.

  505. 505.

    Mnemosyne

    @Irony Abounds:

    The Dems went and nominated someone with such baggage a vagina that she is losing to a hack, racist, sexist monster.

    Let’s have it out in the open, shall we? Sexist men (and women) are voting for Trump because Hillary is a woman. It’s not her “baggage.” It’s her vagina.

  506. 506.

    Botsplainer

    @Lizzy L:

    If it happens, we will survive. We have been through worse. And I mean all of us who voted for Clinton, or who supported Bernie. We will need to support each other through this.

    I’m 54, and suffered three Republican presidencies in my career, each of which kicked the fuck out of my client base through lousy economic policies. Clinton and Obama saved my people.

    I don’t have the career years left to go through it a fourth time. And I’m not going to schlep around all hunched over, hoping to scavenge tiny fees.

  507. 507.

    different-church-lady

    @Mnemosyne: I had someone really good. I reached a point where I couldn’t afford her any more. The generic ones in my network don’t do any good. I’m going to break into the piggy bank and see the good one again.

    I know I’m being a drama queen here. But I need to be. It’s not just about this election, this is just the last straw.

  508. 508.

    Kay

    @BobbyK:

    Well, my son’s rank and file and he voted for Clinton. I think Obama connected with white middle class and working class men on “the man thing”, honestly. They just liked him. They liked Obama, they didn’t like John Kerry. They thought Obama was manly, they didn’t think John Kerry was manly.

    That’s why I said I thought the “female” part of this was under-analyzed (in hindsight, of course).

  510. 510.

    Hill Dweller

    @Irony Abounds: Obviously, Obama can’t run again. My point was “quality young talent” isn’t going to suddenly solve the Democratic Party’s problems. As Josh Marshall has said, Washington is wired for Republicans. Couple that with white people who are scared to death of anyone that doesn’t look like them, and you get a half-wit reality star elected President.

  511. 511.

    Elie

    @Mnemosyne:

    the problem is white people, who were so fucking racist and sexist that they ran in droves to the guy who promised them that they could stomp on the n*ggers, ragheads, and Jews with no consequences again.

    You have that right. My heart is broken … I am a fighter, but right now my heart is broken..

    BTW — I work for Planned Parenthood.. We will be headed to “the mattresses” for sure….

    White women had a big hand in this result — unless we can determine that it was “rigged” to use a term.

  512. 512.

    Peale

    @Another Scott: it wasn’t nafta. It was China. And yeah, the Bushies dropped the ball big time on China. They did nothing about the outsourcing of manufacturing.

  513. 513.

    Ruckus

    @Another Scott:
    I didn’t expect it to be a walk for Clinton but to see some of these results and the turnout that the fucking asshole got without doing 1/10 the work that Clinton did? I can’t not take this personally, everything, including my life is on the table because of this fucking asshole. You like your life? I’d like to think I might have one in 2-3 yrs. Put yourself in my shoes or the shoes of several of us on this blog, or the millions like me in meatspace. You may think I’m having a panic, and you’d be right. I’ve lived through being wiped out by an earthquake, by the largest recession on record, but those pale in comparison to what this fucking asshole and his conservative government will do to all of us.

  515. 515.

    Carolina Dave

    @Lizzy L: big difference is the southern states never assumed control of all branches of government. We’re into uncharted waters if Michigan falls. Ironically one of the biggest supplier of manpower in the first civil war.

  518. 518.

    GrandJury

    Sam, Nate, and NYT all saying likely Trump win. It’s over folks. And I do mean over. Like end times over as far as I’m concerned.

    Only hope now is that Trump gets impeached before he does any major damage.

  519. 519.

    p.a.

    Well guess I’ll try to get some sleep. It is unusual to win 3 pres elections in a row, since FDR/Truman only Reagan/GHWB. Saw on CNN earlier this evening 38% of voters wanted ‘change’. I thought oh-oh. Who would be stupid enough to expect change for the better from that fuck. Stupid people.

  523. 523.

    J R in WV

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Can we come with you? ;-)

    Too early to plan immigration to Barcelona, SP. Way too early. We gotta wait until the last vote is actually counted, not “forecast” by a network “news” org.

    Too early to panic, folks.

  524. 524.

    liberal

    @Ruckus: hey, man (woman?), I understand. I’m very financially secure, but I understand economic and psychological insecurity.

    Just try to hang in there, pal.

  529. 529.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Davis X. Machina:

    The rust belt died 10 years before NAFTA, but, ok…

    I finally left Michigan in 1984, and already “Last one to leave Michigan turn out the lights” was a tired old cliché. Pisses me off to see trade agreements blamed for outsourcing and offshoring that began years earlier.

  531. 531.

    Mnemosyne

    @different-church-lady:

    If you’re in pain, you’re not being a drama queen. Believe me, the most destructive thought I had to overcome in order to get myself to therapy was, Well, I’m not so bad off, so what am I whining about? This was when I was on the verge of losing my job at the time because I couldn’t concentrate on anything. I ended up needing medication because I had waited so long.

    When you need help, you need help. Go get it.

  533. 533.

    Kay

    @GrandJury:

    I think it’s over too. I’m so sorry. I hope this primal scream was worth it to people. A lot of people are going to be collateral damage.

  537. 537.

    PeakVT

    Okay, so no bubble. I asked because I work 65-70 hrs a week these days and haven’t had time to follow the election in depth.

    So the public polls were almost all wrong. I wonder what the Clinton internal polls showed.

  538. 538.

    Irony Abounds

    @Mnemosyne: Her vagina is just a part of the problem. It’s a vote by whites who are not only sexist, but racist, and afraid of “the other” and looking for revenge after having to, in their minds, endure the indignity of having an African American President for 8 years. And you can cry sexist all you want, but Clinton did come with tons of baggage, including Billy Boy who may have sealed the deal with his mindlessly stupid meeting with Loretta Lynch.

  540. 540.

    different-church-lady

    @Mnemosyne: I’m in pain. But what I’m realizing is that I was already in a lot of pain long before now and I was trying to ignore it.

  541. 541.

    Elie

    There is something fucked up happening. Sorry. This is not straight ahead.

    That said, I have nothing to offer in terms of a solution except to figure out where my husband and family and I can go.

    “My country tis of thee” — is no more… not after the racist rants that apparently most of the white people in this country uphold. I will find it hard to not look over my shoulder at any white person… I now KNOW — what you think… the major majority of you anyway… No more lies. I understand. WE undestand

  543. 543.

    Suzanne

    I have never felt like the American promise didn’t belong to me as much as I do right now.

    I have daughters and I am terrified.

  544. 544.

    Kay

    John Harwood ‏@JohnJHarwood 20m20 minutes ago
    Sr WH official, asked if Clinton still wins: “Yes. tight”

    I don’t know how. I’m just heartsick and I’m going to bed.

  547. 547.

    Emma

    I am in pain for all those young women who will have to fight these battles over again. Goddess help them.

  552. 552.

    WaterGirl

    @Ruckus: God help us all if Trump is elected. But we’ve got your back here, Ruckus, and if push comes to shove and you need money for treatment or whatever, we’ve got you.

  554. 554.

    Canadian Shield

    One thing to remember is, as odious as Trump is, he was a mostly-democrat friendly with the clintons before he became a republican (because that was the least path of resistance to win). He wants the title for his legacy but hopefully won’t try to do much. Weak sauce i know but cruz or another evangelical would be worse.

  555. 555.

    Another Scott

    @Ruckus: I’m sorry.

    I agree that the election results should not be this close and that is very disconcerting.

    I’m still optimistic that Hillary will win.

    Hang in there.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  561. 561.

    Mnemosyne

    @different-church-lady:

    That’s how it works. And then you get into therapy and you shovel through all of it and take an honest look at every piece and, eventually, when you’ve moved enough, life really does get better. I promise.

    You are important. You deserve to feel better. Don’t let the lying voice inside your head tell you anything else.

  562. 562.

    different-church-lady

    @Suzanne: You know what my problem is?

    I don’t know what to do with love.

    Something bad in my family that I’ve never been able to put my finger on.

    I’m supposed to say love back. I feel love back. But my fingers trip over the words.

    We’re pet central here, right? When my cat passed on two springs ago, I deliberately didn’t say a word about it here. Because I knew I wouldn’t be able to deal with the outpouring of sympathy.

    That’s fucked up, right?

  564. 564.

    Adam L Silverman

    @PeakVT: Based on 1) all the polling with one or two outliers, 2) everything we know about presidential elections in terms of campaigning, and 3) one campaign actually running a campaign and the other doing its own, weird thing everything pointed to a solid, if not blowout, win for Clinton. This was almost a natural experiment in political science with the following query: to what extent is actually running a professional campaign correlated with winning a presidential election?

    Its also important to recognize/realize that this isn’t like Brexit. There were more polls showing Brexit narrowly passing than there were showing remain winning.

  566. 566.

    different-church-lady

    @Adam L Silverman: You know what it feels like? It feels like the point in 1984 when O’Brien is asking what 2+2 is.

    ETA: What was the quote? “5! 4! Anything you say! Just make the pain stop!”

  567. 567.

    Adam L Silverman

    @different-church-lady: And once it gets this far your brain chemistry isn’t playing fair. Go for the professional help. Trying to fight it alone is not easy and not recommended. We’ll keep good thoughts for you.

  573. 573.

    Suzanne

    @different-church-lady: As a therapist or a counselor, I make a great architect, so I have no words of wisdom to offer. But I care for you and about you, and I hope that you are encouraged by the rest of us to find the help you need. And you know that you can always count on someone here to take the piss out of you, if that will make you feel better.

  575. 575.

    Adam L Silverman

    @different-church-lady: I hear you. But prediction is always backwards, not forwards based on educated assumptions of how the world works, which are based on observations of the world. It has always been possible that Trump could win, it just wasn’t necessarily probable.

  576. 576.

    different-church-lady

    @Suzanne:

    And you know that you can always count on someone here to take the piss out of you, if that will make you feel better.

    That’s the first laugh I’ve had all night.

  578. 578.

    Ruckus

    @different-church-lady:
    I had to see someone in 2001. Too many things pilled one on top of another were doing me in. As you know as you’ve stated here tonight, help, helps.
    I’m not worried for myself for tonight, but I also have a decent source for now. But I do have worry for you. Please call.

  579. 579.

    Mnemosyne

    @different-church-lady:

    Facebook story: a friend of my brother-in-law’s was raised by a narcissistic mother and has been going through a long therapy process. She just figured out that she is not, in fact, an introvert. She’s actually an extrovert, but dealing with her horrible family made her withdraw from other people because she felt like she had to conceal her real feelings from everyone, when she really needed to conceal them from her toxic family.

    Go get help and let yourself feel better. You deserve it.

  581. 581.

    Bobby Thomson

    @different-church-lady:

    When my cat passed on two springs ago, I deliberately didn’t say a word about it here. Because I knew I wouldn’t be able to deal with the outpouring of sympathy.

    That’s fucked up, right?

    Nah, I get that. If something is affecting my behavior I’ll let people know about it, but otherwise I sometimes keep it to myself.

  582. 582.

    different-church-lady

    @Ruckus:

    Too many things pilled one on top of another were doing me in.

    Yeah. Exactly that. It’s been years now. In 2011 I needed surgery and couldn’t work for thee months and I’ve never been the same since.

    i feel so guilty I’m turning this into my personal therapy session. I guess it’s not so bad since this thread isn’t really alive anymore.

  585. 585.

    different-church-lady

    @Mnemosyne:

    She just figured out that she is not, in fact, an introvert. She’s actually an extrovert, but dealing with her horrible family made her withdraw from other people because she felt like she had to conceal her real feelings from everyone, when she really needed to conceal them from her toxic family.

    Yes, that sounds very familiar. There’s a lot of emotional dysfunction in my family around love going back to at least my mother’s father. I went out into the world like being a person with normal emotions was a second language I spoke almost without an accent.

  586. 586.

    different-church-lady

    @liberal: It’s a hard thing to do for me. I hate being needy. Strike that: I’m TERRIFIED of being needy.

    And right now I’m just spraying needy all over the joint.

  587. 587.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @different-church-lady: Don’t feel guilty (gender-generic) dude. We’re sincere, and we care. Things are sucking hard tonight, and for those who’ve been struggling before, it’s g*dawful.

    My old man told me once when I told him I felt guilty for being down when people had it worse:

    Perspective is good, but your biggest problem is still your biggest problem.

    I try to remember that, and encourage you to believe it. We’re listening. I may be doing it quite virtually, as I’m about done in (up at 4 for 6am poll observing – with credentials – call) and having difficulty with short dark days. But I care.

  591. 591.

    liberal

    @different-church-lady: it’s cool. I spent a huge fraction of my life leaning on my friends all the time by bitching about everything.

    As far as the joint is concerned, it’s just a blog comment section. Frankly, responding to you is keeping my mind off the fucking election.

    Hang in there. I gotta call my 87 yo dad…lifelong liberal, and I’m worried that a Trump will give him a heart attack.

  594. 594.

    Bobby Thomson

    Half of all union households voted for Trump, according to exit polls. This should work out at least as well for them as when the Teamsters endorsed Reagan.

    As I saw elsewhere tonight, racism doesn’t lose often.

  595. 595.

    divF

    I’ll stay over here for a while. RtR = Not Over is shitting up the next thread up.

    ETA: Adam just banned him. Phew.

  596. 596.

    Ruckus

    @different-church-lady:
    I used to be a counselor, years and years and OK you get the picture. I did this weekly for 3 yrs after training for 6 months. Saw people in person, talked to them on the phone. We also met in group to discuss our week and to see if we were having problems. So when it occurred to me yrs later that I needed to see someone, I was surprised by that. I thought I had it in the bag. I didn’t. I just spent weeks at the VA going to group, trying to figure out how to see the bright side of my illnesses, including cancer.
    My point in all of this is that none of us really know how life is going to go, tomorrow or next week or next year. I’ve been down as far as I thought I could go multiple times in the last 20+ yrs and I’ve come back each time. So I’m asking you to do the same. Make the call. Please.

  599. 599.

    AndoChronic

    Why go to Canada when you can come to Minnesota? We’re kind of like Canada! Let me be the first to invite and welcome you all here.

  600. 600.

    different-church-lady

    @Ruckus: I think I’ve run out of sane things to say except thank you.

    I… don’t have cancer. I live in frightening times. I suppose I’ll find a way to pull myself together. Others have done more with much less.

  601. 601.

    Ruckus

    @different-church-lady:
    My mom took good care of me when I was sick, which was very often when I was young. But I can not recall my mom ever telling me she loved me. My dad hugged me for the first time when he was 75 but at least we talked all the time and worked together for 30 yrs. My sisters were bipolar to the max. I stayed away from home as much as possible starting when I was 12. I very, very rarely had friends over and only one would ever came back a second time. On the other hand I never got hit or physically abused in any way. Families are mostly dysfunctional. Some are much worse. Work on yourself, not on how your family was. I have to live with myself, my family is gone and I’m not. My oldest sister hated my mom and they had horrible fights until she was 60. Then she got cancer. That focused her entire life off of being angry at mom or anyone else. As horrible as it sounds her last yrs were her most peaceful because she no longer worried about the past.

  602. 602.

    Ruckus

    @different-church-lady:
    I understand.
    My illnesses compound the issues we all face tonight. I am not trying to downplay that others may be in worse positions or take this worse than me. We all have to live with ourselves every day. I’d like to think that we also live with each other as well, because otherwise it’s just fucking lonely and few of us like that much.
    As to the night, for me I think I’m expecting too much. I want my fucking pony. I had one for a birthday party once, I think I was 5 or maybe 6. I have a picture of me sitting on it somewhere. The night is not over, although for some of us it feels like it. I actually admire that some can say take a breath, calm down, it’s not over yet. I’m just not one of them anymore.

  603. 603.

    different-church-lady

    @Ruckus: I’m struggling knowing what to say. It’s familiar. I’m glad your sister found peace. My mother got cancer, and she didn’t find her way to peace and it’s heartbreaking that she went down fighting the same demons.

  605. 605.

    different-church-lady

    @Ruckus: No. You are not expecting too much. Sometimes the world fails us. It’s not wanting a pony to expect the leader of our country to be sane. It’s not selfish.

  606. 606.

    different-church-lady

    Thanks everyone. I guess I’ll be okay.

    If you don’t see me around it’s not because I’ve done myself in — it’s just because I won’t be able to handle facing things for a bit. I need to go find some support off the internet for a while.

  607. 607.

    different-church-lady

    If anyone’s still reading, I’m writing an e-mail to the “good” therapist right now.

    We’ll all figure out a way to get through this.

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